PDA

View Full Version : Solar Flare Length



Naquadah_nut
November 14th, 2009, 08:13 AM
How did the solar flare last for around 30 hours? and have the same properties and same ending to the time jump.

They were experiencing trouble from around 6 hours in, an rush jumped in around 28 hours in, the kino followed maybe 4 or 5 hours after and landed next to his perfect corpse. In past stargate shows the timing of a flare is millisecond specific and the duration no more than 30 seconds to a minute, think there established science took a back seat for the solar flare jumps this time

Apart from that a very good episode, im just being picky

DigiFluid
November 14th, 2009, 08:14 AM
Intense solar activity?

(I have a sneaking suspicion you're no more of an astrophysicist than I am ;))

Jedi_Master_Bra'tac
November 14th, 2009, 08:19 AM
This is bothering me to... I'm sure someone can fanwank a reasonable explanation though...

MattSilver 3k
November 14th, 2009, 08:20 AM
This is bothering me to... I'm sure someone can fanwank a reasonable explanation though...

Someone rang?

Anyway, uhh... who says solar flares can't last that long? Huh? HUH?!? :P

Inquisitor
November 14th, 2009, 08:58 AM
Who's to say the solar flare was the cause of the interference? It might not have been a solar flare at all, remember as Carter said, the wormhole only has to be influenced by a strong magnetic field to force it to bend back itself. A solar flare is one cause.

i.e. The characters got it wrong, remember, they're the wrong people :)

There could have also been a black hole near the sun with the solar flare, thus stretching out the timeline of the flare. :)


I'm sure someone can fanwank a reasonable explanation though...

teeheehee

MechaThor
November 14th, 2009, 09:45 AM
The Length may have been rather long, but it could have been a really strong one, like that one in Atlantis that threaten the planet. It could also have been lots of Solar Flares effects combined due to strong Solar activity. But I won't let the science ruin a fantastic episode.

What I did like and notice was the writers reason as to why SG-1 TimeGates sent you back on a loop while Atlantis TimeGates sent Sheppard to his chosen destination, making both situations perfectly canon.

jelgate
November 14th, 2009, 09:49 AM
Without knowing more the sun that was intersecting the wormhole its hard to say.

UniGater
November 14th, 2009, 10:00 AM
This is a quote from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_flare#Prediction", I know wiki's aren't always the most reliable, but honestly my science books have been shelved since high school 4 years ago so this will have to do.

"Current methods of flare prediction are problematic, and there is no certain indication that an active region on the Sun will produce a flare. However, many properties of sunspots and active regions correlate with flaring. For example, magnetically complex regions (based on line-of-sight magnetic field) called delta spots produce most large flares. A simple scheme of sunspot classification due to McIntosh is commonly used as a starting point for flare prediction. Predictions are usually stated in terms of probabilities for occurrence of flares above M or X GOES class with 24 or 48 hours. The U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) issues forecasts of this kind."


I guess it is perfectly possible to occur, no?

MechaThor
November 14th, 2009, 10:05 AM
Thinking about it more it could be that the star they pasted through was Massive, VY Canis Majoris style massive. Therefore its gravitational effect would be allot stronger, and since the more mass something has the stronger its effect on space meaning time would naturally flow slower around it, (like water having to flow around a rock in a river). Therefore a few minute long Flare could actually be several hours long from the perspective of a person on that planet?

Hell, maybe it was a Neutron Star?

erotavlas
November 14th, 2009, 10:38 AM
How long do they last?
Most flares are quite short really, less than hour. The longest flare that we've seen with the Japanese Yohkoh satellite was 12 hours though. Compared to flares on other stars though the Sun is a bit of a wimp - some of those flares are a thousand times more energetic than the Sun and can last up to 10 days!


http://www.mssl.ucl.ac.uk/www_solar/PUS/PO/explosions.html

thekillman
November 14th, 2009, 10:38 AM
these gates are inferior to normal ones. it's possible they were more susceptible.

also, it's possible that the sun was at the height of it's activity ( ever so many years, the activity is intense, then it weakens, untill a turning point where it increases again)

that, combined with intense solar flares aimed at the planet itself, might have caused prolonged effects (if the solar flare is in the path of the Wormhole, it will keep on distorting it for as long as it is powerful enough).

solar flares do not insta-weaken, and a serious solar storm can be thousands of times bigger than the earth itself, even bigger than the sun itself

wargrafix
November 14th, 2009, 10:51 AM
I think that when it looped back to the gate, it kept going back to the moment the gate was affected by the flare. So it will keep going on and on and on.

Franklyn Blaze
November 14th, 2009, 10:53 AM
these gates are inferior to normal ones. it's possible they were more susceptible.


How could you possibly know that? It's not like theres an army of ancient engineers coming out with stargate 2.0. They're dead, Jim.

wargrafix
November 14th, 2009, 10:56 AM
its possible closer to home got the newer gate designs.

geddarkstorm
November 14th, 2009, 10:59 AM
these gates are inferior to normal ones. it's possible they were more susceptible.

also, it's possible that the sun was at the height of it's activity ( ever so many years, the activity is intense, then it weakens, untill a turning point where it increases again)

that, combined with intense solar flares aimed at the planet itself, might have caused prolonged effects (if the solar flare is in the path of the Wormhole, it will keep on distorting it for as long as it is powerful enough).

solar flares do not insta-weaken, and a serious solar storm can be thousands of times bigger than the earth itself, even bigger than the sun itself

Absolutely correct. If the wormhole bisected a flare verses running at anything other than a 90 degree angle with a large flare, or even parallel with, the length of disruption would vary, while the property of the disruption would likely stay the same (flares are largely coherent). It could even last days with a big x class mass ejection (the biggest our sun can do).

prion
November 14th, 2009, 11:54 AM
All solar flares last as long as they are deemed to be needed for the drama of the plot... science really doesn't have much to do with it ;)

thekillman
November 14th, 2009, 01:02 PM
a solar storm can become massive and last long. it's effects are maximal if it is on a collision course with the planet. 30 hours is possible.


so, yes, a plotdevice, but a scientifically justified one.


MW gates have DHD's. greater range, easier dialling, and prevents fcking up stars.

PG gates detect solar flares.

obviously, someone realised what flaws it had and made better gates.

Replicator Todd
November 14th, 2009, 01:15 PM
Its science fiction...anything can happen.

Captain Obvious
November 14th, 2009, 01:32 PM
How could you possibly know that? It's not like theres an army of ancient engineers coming out with stargate 2.0. They're dead, Jim.

Because it has been stated by TPTB that this ship was sent out so long ago that its gate predates all other gates. Since the gates on the planets seem to be very similar, I would assume that they are also older-style gates. We haven't seen a single control crystal that I know of, so I would assume this tech and these gates pre-date the ancients crystal technology, which explains the lack of DHD's (crystal powered).

The reason people have been saying the ship has been traveling almost a million years is that relativistic time constraints have made under 1 million years pass on board when destiny has been traveling for hundreds of millions of years.

Cecil Brax
November 14th, 2009, 01:37 PM
The reason people have been saying the ship has been traveling almost a million years is that relativistic time constraints have made under 1 million years pass on board when destiny has been traveling for hundreds of millions of years.

Where is the evidence of this? I've seen no evidence that there are any relativistic effects yet. Infact, time on the Ship has been just the same as time passing on Earth so far. Maybe when it jumps Galaxies we will see something, but there has been zero evidence of this.

I know its a little off topic, but your post made this statement sound like it was a "matter of fact" so I just wanted to either clear this up that its only a theory, or see what evidence there is showing this to be true.

- CB

garhkal
November 14th, 2009, 04:00 PM
To me i think the flair was just a long lasting one...

Count
November 14th, 2009, 04:26 PM
Solar flares can last for ages, there was one measured on VY Canis Majoris that lasted 3 and a half weeks a few years back. It depends how much pressure was built up on the star's surface when the flare erupts, as to how long it remains.

escyos
November 14th, 2009, 04:30 PM
24-48 hours or so but i think the entire flare wouldnt send you back in time the the same period. i think at the start of the flare when the gravitational arc is at its peak the womrhole may travel back in time a lot further than it does at the end

Naquadah_nut
November 15th, 2009, 05:13 AM
24-48 hours or so but i think the entire flare wouldnt send you back in time the the same period. i think at the start of the flare when the gravitational arc is at its peak the womrhole may travel back in time a lot further than it does at the end

This was my main concern rather than the duration, the flare wont maintain the same magnetic moment through its entire arc, as a flare is really charged particles flowing over a magnetic arc i believe, the time difference could be hundreds if not thousands of years, but it always seems to end up in same place.

I had forgotten about the age of the gates to be honest so i believe their suceptability to the flare could have been increased and would explain the intermittant connection which no other PG or MW gate had. I like scientific debates :D. should have studied physics instead of biochem lol

TheUnknown
November 15th, 2009, 05:36 AM
This was my main concern rather than the duration, the flare wont maintain the same magnetic moment through its entire arc, as a flare is really charged particles flowing over a magnetic arc i believe, the time difference could be hundreds if not thousands of years, but it always seems to end up in same place.

I had forgotten about the age of the gates to be honest so i believe their suceptability to the flare could have been increased and would explain the intermittant connection which no other PG or MW gate had. I like scientific debates :D. should have studied physics instead of biochem lol

Do we know that it sent the kino back to the same moment that Rush went through? He was dead, so his body could have been there for a while. For all we know, there could have been a difference of a few days or so, maybe longer.

Dain
November 15th, 2009, 07:24 AM
Do we know that it sent the kino back to the same moment that Rush went through? He was dead, so his body could have been there for a while. For all we know, there could have been a difference of a few days or so, maybe longer.

Exactly. All we know is that the Kino arrived at the planet after Rush was already dead. So we can only say for certain that the Kino didn't travel further back in time than Rush and likely arrived within the same week at least.

Sifr
November 15th, 2009, 08:12 AM
It did last obstensively long, but, we must remember that these are OLD Gates and that Gates been on a world where the climate is very erratic. Sure Gates are sturdy and resilient, but taken that amount of punishment for that amount of time, might have done something to its internal mechanisms that would make it susceptible to failures.

To be honest, something that bothers me, given the supposedly immense age of these Gates, I'm surprised they even still work at all, they should have packed in ages ago.

The Milky Way Gates haven't got around this Solar Flare glitch, nor even the relatively "modern" Pegasus Gates... and if this planet is orbiting a pulsar or neutron star, or just a regular star with high solar activity, might last a while.

Ann_Ominous
November 15th, 2009, 09:37 AM
Exactly. All we know is that the Kino arrived at the planet after Rush was already dead. So we can only say for certain that the Kino didn't travel further back in time than Rush and likely arrived within the same week at least.

Body did not look like it had started to decay or even change color, much less been eaten by scavengers, so Rush hadn't been dead very long.

Of course we don't know how quickly Rush died. He didn't look like he had aged any, so it wasn't decades :rolleyes: I don't remember Rush showing symptoms of the disease, so that might of taken a day or two or even longer to kill him. He wasn't far from the gate, so if he lived a while then he just happened to be going back to the gate when he collapsed. Or the creatures could of killed him the first night he was there and we just can't see the wounds in that view. He could of even arrived at night. Or he could of arrived during some cycle where the creatures are hibernating.

But it is most probable that Rush died pretty quickly after arriving and the kino arrived within a few hours of his death.

thekillman
November 15th, 2009, 12:50 PM
or the timeflow fluctuates (that sounds reallly techy BTW) in a non-linear way, that one moment to early, and you're 100 years in the future, a second too late, and you're 8 days in the past.

Cassandra said SG1 had stepped through -i believe- a MOMENT too early. and they were many years in the future, like, decades.

Carlos-Curitiba
November 15th, 2009, 12:58 PM
The flares are different and singular to every star.
They can change according to the mass and size and color, temperature, gravity of the star.
So, having so many variables, they have a cicle of life depending on what originated it.
It can last minutes, hours or days according to the star characteristics.

Captain Obvious
November 15th, 2009, 04:08 PM
Exactly. All we know is that the Kino arrived at the planet after Rush was already dead. So we can only say for certain that the Kino didn't travel further back in time than Rush and likely arrived within the same week at least.

how do we know for sure? as far as we know, the rush on that planet was killed by the kino that was hurled by Lt. Scott in the second timeline.

Cecil Brax
November 15th, 2009, 11:02 PM
how do we know for sure? as far as we know, the rush on that planet was killed by the kino that was hurled by Lt. Scott in the second timeline.

Ohh man, wouldn't that have been something weird to see.

*rush wakes up after several hours of being unconcious due to the gate travel being unstable. Brushing himself off, he begins looking around when moments later the stargate opens. Rush moves closer to the gate, picking up his radio to begin speaking.*

"This is Dr. Rush, can anyone hear me I made ..." *THOCK! Kino comes flying through the gate, smacking him in the head squarely. Rush collapses to the ground, now dead.*

*Scott looks through the device seeing the Kino image of Rush on the ground.* "Well, guess he didn't survive the trip." *Moments later, alien creatures swarm him.* /end

- CB