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SBN
November 13th, 2009, 11:16 PM
In the cave we have a scene with Rush and Eli talking about mortality. Rush then begins to discuss ascension:

Eli: You really think that's possible?
Rush: I know it is.
Rush: Maybe not for you and me, but that idea is the reason why I ended up here.
Eli: So you think if we learn enough that somehow, somewhere out there we could discover how it's done?
[silence]
Rush: We have to make it through the day

So, the way I see it there is a hell of a lot to read into this one tiny conversation. We know that Rush has lost his wife, and that this appears to have had a very strong affect. We could also surmise that this could be a driving force in who he is.

Then, I wonder if the reason Rush has been so hell bent on getting to Destiny is that he believes that the "secret" can be found:

A.) Could have long ago discovered something before getting to Icarus that leads him to believe this is his destiny?

B.) Could this loss in his life have affected his own fears of mortality, thus he is seeking a way past the eventuality of life?

Remember his conversation in an earlier episode with Young, when he asked to have his name removed from the list. He said to Young that this was his destiny to be there, and he shall thus die there. I have a really, and I mean REALLY strong belief that this conversation with Eli tonight is going to have major story implications in the future, or if not story character development for at least Rush if not others.

Or am I just two fries short of a happy meal?

alz0rz
November 13th, 2009, 11:24 PM
I saw it that way too.
I think we are finally getting some sort of glimpse into Rush's true motives.
I'm sure he knew a lot more about what he was getting into when he dialed the gate from the Icarus base and stranded everyone there.

He seeks ascension.. there I said it!

Vapor
November 13th, 2009, 11:27 PM
I don't know if he specifically wants to ascend himself, but I definitely saw this scene as hinting at the fact that Rush has motives on the Destiny that no one else is aware of. This makes twice now that he's mentioned ascension.

Again, this is why we can't write this episode off as "pointless" just because time resets. We're still learning things that we hadn't already known.

scifirobtracie
November 13th, 2009, 11:27 PM
Yea I agree - he is looking for that - but I was reminded of something in SGA -

The human replicators - said a similar thing -

I think that they thought that they could "Learn" how to ascend -

Show the flaws in humanity - and his character.

:)

EllieVee
November 13th, 2009, 11:53 PM
Maybe he thinks his wife ascended.

Sam StarEagle
November 14th, 2009, 12:01 AM
Maybe he thinks his wife ascended.

:indeed:

Mevi
November 14th, 2009, 12:02 AM
You can ascend yourself...Rodney was just didn't want to do it in Tao of Rodney - he reached the biological requirement and simply needed to release his burden.

SBN
November 14th, 2009, 12:11 AM
Maybe he thinks his wife ascended.

Or....he thinks he can bring her back or change events? For that we will have to wait to learn more of how his wife died.

Detox
November 14th, 2009, 12:43 AM
Wait... if he wants ascension... can't he just go to the ascension planet in Pegasus?

PG15
November 14th, 2009, 01:04 AM
That planet doesn't really help you ascend besides making sure that there's no one bothering you. It's not like that Ascension Machine...

Count
November 14th, 2009, 01:15 AM
I think i have rush figured out. He has thantophobia. Something about his actions in Time directly tied up wtih all his motivations in previous episodes, he's trying to ensure he's not forgotten when and if (ascension as a motivation perhaps?) he dies.

MattSilver 3k
November 14th, 2009, 02:03 AM
I think Rush is trying to rescue his dead wife's consciousness and ascend it (and then him) so she can live forever with him, as energy.

You know, if I believed Rush was actually into the 9th Chevron Project for anything beyond craziness...

BurningIce
November 14th, 2009, 02:33 AM
In the cave we have a scene with Rush and Eli talking about mortality.
.........

So, the way I see it there is a hell of a lot to read into this one tiny conversation.
...............
Then, I wonder if the reason Rush has been so hell bent on getting to Destiny is that he believes that the "secret" can be found:
................

Or am I just two fries short of a happy meal?

I hope it's a sly and subtle hint about what drives Rush. It doesn't suggest anything nefarious, just that he is certainly hiding a big secret.

As I said, I hope it's a subtle hint. Bit's and piece's dropped here and there for the audience to piece together over the course of the season.

Shpinxinator
November 14th, 2009, 02:35 AM
I think he's simply afarid of dying

EllieVee
November 14th, 2009, 02:36 AM
Subtle, as opposed to the falling anvil of the photo-of-dead-wife scene in Air?

SBN
November 14th, 2009, 02:45 AM
I think he's simply afarid of dying

What actions on his part would lead you to conclude this? When it was thought that Destiny would burn up in the star, he seemed rather calm and content. Of course people used that to assume he may or may not have known the true result of Destiny reaching the star. Yet in this episode, look through several points and you see a person that is not typically one who is "afraid" to die. Eli seemed like someone afraid to die, Rush did not seem particularly afraid. Especially when he took the chance to jump into the wormhole probably knowing full well the result.

Shpinxinator
November 14th, 2009, 02:54 AM
What actions on his part would lead you to conclude this? When it was thought that Destiny would burn up in the star, he seemed rather calm and content. Of course people used that to assume he may or may not have known the true result of Destiny reaching the star. Yet in this episode, look through several points and you see a person that is not typically one who is "afraid" to die. Eli seemed like someone afraid to die, Rush did not seem particularly afraid. Especially when he took the chance to jump into the wormhole probably knowing full well the result.

On your first point I am one of the people who think he knew Destiny would be fine.

And as to him jumping into the wormhole I think he found it to be a hopeless situation and took a method that would be the most painless...either risk getting back to the ship or painlessly ceasing to exist OR staying and getting eaten alive.

I think his ultimate goal is to find a way to ascend because again...he is afraid of dying.

And comparing him to Eli...a character who wears his emotions on his sleeve isn't fair...Rush is just an internal man

Giantevilhead
November 14th, 2009, 03:29 AM
It doesn't make sense for Rush to go to the Destiny to look for ascension since there's way more stuff on ascension in the Milky Way and Pegasus. Atlantis has the latest information on ascension. There's the ascendomatic and the planet where Anubis created Khalek, which is full of technology and research data. There's also Kheb and the planet in Pegasus the Ancients created for people to learn ascension. Plus Destiny was probably launched before the Ancients learned about ascension.

EllieVee
November 14th, 2009, 03:35 AM
It's not about him, it's about his wife.

thekillman
November 14th, 2009, 04:07 AM
he wants to ascend.


that's the point. he wants to learn on the Destiny how to ascend. the point is, that the Lanteans "cheated", while it seems that actually the ancients that made the destiny genuinely ascended (or died out or went to pegasus)

StarFighter
November 14th, 2009, 04:50 AM
It doesn't make sense for Rush to go to the Destiny to look for ascension since there's way more stuff on ascension in the Milky Way and Pegasus. Atlantis has the latest information on ascension. There's the ascendomatic and the planet where Anubis created Khalek, which is full of technology and research data. There's also Kheb and the planet in Pegasus the Ancients created for people to learn ascension. Plus Destiny was probably launched before the Ancients learned about ascension.

I agree. I don't see how he would learn more on ascension from Destiny than Atlantis. Destiny possibly predates their ability to ascend. Plus why would that information be on Destiny. It might not. But we do know that it is stored in the Atlantis database. He should have gone to Atlantis.

Inquisitor
November 14th, 2009, 04:52 AM
Why would he expect to find answers there, when the Destiny was launched before they went to Pegasus, where they researched Ascension?
This would seem to imply the Destiny was launched after Pegasus, which is insane.

Shpinxinator
November 14th, 2009, 04:54 AM
Why would he expect to find answers there, when the Destiny was launched before they went to Pegasus, where they researched Ascension?
This would seem to imply the Destiny was launched after Pegasus, which is insane.

Rush didn't know what the 9th Chevron did before hand he had no idea about the Destiny or how old it was

Commander Zelix
November 14th, 2009, 05:02 AM
Obviously that conversation got my ears wide open for Rush true motives the moment he start talking about ascension. Even better when he made sure to change subject. As Matt and others said, and as I thought since Air, its not about him but about his wife. Matt theory on this thread is plausible.

diamond-dust
November 14th, 2009, 05:46 AM
I didn't want to create a whole new topic for this, but did anyone else wonder where exactly Rush ended up after he decided to go through the 'broken' wormhole on his own?

Is it possible he further back in time than anyone has suspected and has been aboard Destiny well before everyone ended up on it?

Commander Zelix
November 14th, 2009, 05:49 AM
I didn't want to create a whole new topic for this, but did anyone else wonder where exactly Rush ended up after he decided to go through the 'broken' wormhole on his own?

Is it possible he further back in time than anyone has suspected and has been aboard Destiny well before everyone ended up on it?
Cool! :) I thought about that too. But I don't think they will make it happen.

Pharaoh Atem
November 14th, 2009, 05:55 AM
rush wants to ascend and learn about the ancients that's why he's so obsessed with destiny

diamond-dust
November 14th, 2009, 06:02 AM
Cool! :) I thought about that too. But I don't think they will make it happen.

It would explain how he seems to be two steps ahead of everyone, with the solar recharge as probably the best example, with Rush having his name taken from the hat. I think if people became aware that he actually knows how to get everyone back home, his own personal goals will indefinitely be in jeopardy.

Of course, if Rush had been on the ship prior to the events of the first episode, it doesn't make much sense how he managed to get off it as he would most likely have needed to use the gate through to earth, and you don't exactly do that unnoticed.

Arwis
November 14th, 2009, 06:18 AM
I didn't want to create a whole new topic for this, but did anyone else wonder where exactly Rush ended up after he decided to go through the 'broken' wormhole on his own?

Is it possible he further back in time than anyone has suspected and has been aboard Destiny well before everyone ended up on it?

He made a loop around the sun and was sent back in time to the same planet. In the episode you can found Rush taking human scull but what he didn't knew that it was his own scull.

Btw he couldn't end up on destiny earlier before everyone else because at that time destiny was out of reach.

diamond-dust
November 14th, 2009, 06:21 AM
That clears that! :)

Commander Zelix
November 14th, 2009, 06:27 AM
He made a loop around the sun and was sent back in time to the same planet. In the episode you can found Rush taking human scull but what he didn't knew that it was his own scull.

I don't think its so clear it is his own skull. It could be anybody who died from the first expedition (alien attack or disease).

MattSilver 3k
November 14th, 2009, 06:33 AM
I don't think its so clear it is his own skull. It could be anybody who died from the first expedition (alien attack or disease).

It's either his or Scott's skull. Because the first expedition are in the same time as the second expedition who found the skull, and their bodies are rotting in the unaltered timeline - the first expedition's failure. However, the 1st timeline's Rush (And maybe Scott) went back in time with the first timeline's Kino. The three of them being picked up by the second team, who were in an altered timeline because Rush, the Kino and maybe Scott went on through to the solar flare'd wormhole...

So yeah, I'd say it's probably Rush...

J-Whitt Remastered
November 14th, 2009, 06:39 AM
I didn't want to create a whole new topic for this, but did anyone else wonder where exactly Rush ended up after he decided to go through the 'broken' wormhole on his own?

Is it possible he further back in time than anyone has suspected and has been aboard Destiny well before everyone ended up on it?

IIRC when Scott threw the Kino through the Gate it landed next to Rush's body in the past. I coulda sworn that it showed Rush laying on the ground unconscious/dead.

Commander Zelix
November 14th, 2009, 06:42 AM
It's either his or Scott's skull. Because the first expedition are in the same time as the second expedition who found the skull, and their bodies are rotting in the unaltered timeline - the first expedition's failure. However, the 1st timeline's Rush (And maybe Scott) went back in time with the first timeline's Kino. The three of them being picked up by the second team, who were in an altered timeline because Rush, the Kino and maybe Scott went on through to the solar flare'd wormhole...

So yeah, I'd say it's probably Rush...
Oh yeah, I think I'm going to delete my post above. LOL They are obviously in the same timeline. But then how come they just found one Kino?

diamond-dust
November 14th, 2009, 06:45 AM
Reminds me of the film Triangle. Causes eventual meltdown of my neural networks trying to fathom it! Just glad to have enjoyed the episode.

Commander Zelix
November 14th, 2009, 07:05 AM
I think I just found a plot hole here. :)

jelgate
November 14th, 2009, 07:06 AM
I think I just found a plot hole here. :)

How so?

g.o.d
November 14th, 2009, 07:12 AM
I think I just found a plot hole here. :)

really?where?

Commander Zelix
November 14th, 2009, 07:18 AM
Oh wait. I was right at first. I've just rewatched the first 10 minutes or so of the show.

In chronological order:

TEAM 1: They are the one we saw in the kino video. They go through the gate are attacked by aliens and gets killed by the water disease on the planet. Rush decide to try to jump in the unstable wormhole. They left a nice Kino video on the planet.

TEAM 2: Go to the planet. Find the Kino from Team 1. Rush find a skull. Go back to the Destiny. Watch the video. Quarantine themselves. Then realize from the video that the flying goauld venom can cure the water disease so they go back. They all die, killed by the aliens, on the planet except Scott. Which send a message to itself though the gate.

TEAM 3: We never saw them. But we suppose: They find Scott message. Becomes experts at catching flying Goauld and everybody's happy.

So I was right. Rush could have found any skulls. And there's a plot hole as relating to why TEAM 2 didn't found the second kino send by Scott explaining to them everything.

Am I making any sense? LOL

MattSilver 3k
November 14th, 2009, 07:21 AM
Oh wait. I was right at first. I've just rewatched the first 10 minutes or so of the show.

In chronological order:

TEAM 1: They are the one we saw in the kino video. They go through the gate are attacked by aliens and gets killed by the water disease on the planet. Rush decide to try to jump in the unstable wormhole. They left a nice Kino video on the planet.

TEAM 2: Go to the planet. Find the Kino from Team 1. Rush find a skull. Go back to the Destiny. Watch the video. Quarantine themselves. Then realize from the video that the flying goauld venom can cure the water disease so they go back. They all die, killed by the aliens, on the planet except Scott. Which send a message to itself though the gate.

TEAM 3: We never saw them. But we suppose: They find Scott message. Becomes experts at catching flying Goauld and everybody's happy.

So I was right. Rush could have found any skulls. And there's a plot hole as relating to why TEAM 2 didn't found the second kino send by Scott explaining to them everything.

Am I making any sense? LOL

Team 2 didn't find the second Kino because they were in the first altered timeline. Scott sending that Kino back created the second altered timeline (The one that we didn't see but assume led to the next bunch of episodes).

In the second timeline, how could Rush find any other skulls except his own (Or Scott's)? The skulls are of decomposed humans - themselves from the other timeline and who died in the original timeline. And since only Rush (Or Scott) travelled back in time and died on the jungle planet, their bones would be found by the second and third timeline's teams.

g.o.d
November 14th, 2009, 07:21 AM
Oh wait. I was right at first. I've just rewatched the first 10 minutes or so of the show.

In chronological order:

TEAM 1: They are the one we saw in the kino video. They go through the gate are attacked by aliens and gets killed by the water disease on the planet. Rush decide to try to jump in the unstable wormhole. They left a nice Kino video on the planet.

TEAM 2: Go to the planet. Find the Kino from Team 1. Rush find a skull. Go back to the Destiny. Watch the video. Quarantine themselves. Then realize from the video that the flying goauld venom can cure the water disease so they go back. They all die, killed by the aliens, on the planet except Scott. Which send a message to itself though the gate.

TEAM 3: We never saw them. But we suppose: They find Scott message. Becomes experts at catching flying Goauld and everybody's happy.

So I was right. Rush could have found any skulls. And there's a plot hole as relating to why TEAM 2 didn't found the second kino send by Scott explaining to them everything.

Am I making any sense? LOL

yes, you are. But I'm afraid it's not a plot hole. It fits into the whole stagate time-travel "thing". When Scott no.2 sent a Kino back in time, he actually created a new timeline for the third team only.

aretood2
November 14th, 2009, 07:23 AM
...

So I was right. Rush could have found any skulls. And there's a plot hole as relating to why TEAM 2 didn't found the second kino send by Scott explaining to them everything.

Am I making any sense? LOL

In this case we must remember about time paradoxes. They may seem like plot holes, but they are not.

MattSilver 3k
November 14th, 2009, 07:26 AM
Actually, I have a video that explains it all this time travel mumbo jumbo nicely, courtesy of Austin Powers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8w95xIdH4o&feature=related

Commander Zelix
November 14th, 2009, 07:50 AM
Now with official no plot hole, no paradox, Rush did find his own skull timeline version:

TEAM 1: They are the one we saw in the kino video. They go through the gate are attacked by aliens and gets killed by the water disease on the planet. Rush decide to try to jump in the unstable wormhole. Scott wakes up next morning, realize everybody is dead except him, but he was bitten. Try to send a kino to the Destiny through the gates. But the kino goes at the same point in time in the past than Rush.

TEAM 2: Go to the planet. Find the Kino from Team 1 sent by Scott. Rush find his skull. Go back to the Destiny. Watch the video. Quarantine themselves. Then realize from the video that the flying goauld venom can cure the water disease so they go back. They all die, killed by the aliens, on the planet except Scott. Which send a message to itself though the gate.

TEAM 3: We never saw them. But we suppose: They find Scott message. Becomes experts at catching flying Goauld and everybody's happy.

-------------------------


So theres no real paradox here. "Team 1 Scott" by sending a kino to the past (thinking he was sending it to the Destiny) created an alternative timeline. Before the Destiny was even close to this jungle planet. Which happens to be the same place than Rush when he jumped in the wormhole himself the night before.

So the alternate timeline Destiny arrive (team 2). Theres only one corpse and one Kino. They go back to the ship quarantine themselves. Go back to the Planet. And Scott send another Kino. With a message from him telling the Destiny (TEAM 3) how everything works. Thus creating yet again another timeline. We suppose everything went fine.

(Whether Scott sent this last Kino back in time before or after the other Kino (from Team1) doesn't matter. Since Team 2 already picked up the Kino and the presence or not of the remain of Rush has no importance. )

Arwis
November 14th, 2009, 08:38 AM
Now with official no plot hole, no paradox, Rush did find his own skull timeline version:

TEAM 1: They are the one we saw in the kino video. They go through the gate are attacked by aliens and gets killed by the water disease on the planet. Rush decide to try to jump in the unstable wormhole. Scott wakes up next morning, realize everybody is dead except him, but he was bitten. Try to send a kino to the Destiny through the gates. But the kino goes at the same point in time in the past than Rush.

TEAM 2: Go to the planet. Find the Kino from Team 1 sent by Scott. Rush find his skull. Go back to the Destiny. Watch the video. Quarantine themselves. Then realize from the video that the flying goauld venom can cure the water disease so they go back. They all die, killed by the aliens, on the planet except Scott. Which send a message to itself though the gate.

TEAM 3: We never saw them. But we suppose: They find Scott message. Becomes experts at catching flying Goauld and everybody's happy.

-------------------------


So theres no real paradox here. "Team 1 Scott" by sending a kino to the past (thinking he was sending it to the Destiny) created an alternative timeline. Before the Destiny was even close to this jungle planet. Which happens to be the same place than Rush when he jumped in the wormhole himself the night before.

So the alternate timeline Destiny arrive (team 2). Theres only one corpse and one Kino. They go back to the ship quarantine themselves. Go back to the Planet. And Scott send another Kino. With a message from him telling the Destiny (TEAM 3) how everything works. Thus creating yet again another timeline. We suppose everything went fine.

(Whether Scott sent this last Kino back in time before or after the other Kino (from Team1) doesn't matter. Since Team 2 already picked up the Kino and the presence or not of the remain of Rush has no importance. )

Exactly what I had in mind saying that Rush had his own skull in hands.

Lanter1000
November 14th, 2009, 09:53 AM
Maybe he thinks his wife ascended.

Is that likely? Even if ascension propably inspired human cultures into the myth of life after death, ascension is not the same thing as the traditional afterlife. Ascension is only possible for a few people advanced enough. The rest of us will just cease to exist after we die.

Rush is very intelligent and of course he knows that his wife could´nt possibly have ascended. His motives must be something else.

EllieVee
November 14th, 2009, 12:34 PM
Is that likely? Even if ascension propably inspired human cultures into the myth of life after death, ascension is not the same thing as the traditional afterlife. Ascension is only possible for a few people advanced enough. The rest of us will just cease to exist after we die.

Rush is very intelligent and of course he knows that his wife could´nt possibly have ascended. His motives must be something else.

No, his motives are about his wife. First I thought it was a 9th chevron = time travel thing but now I think it's an ascension thing. Why couldn't she have ascended? Because she wasn't 'advanced'? Uh, McKay wasn't 'advanced'. Plus, Oma Desala was pulling people into ascension without them 'releasing their burdens', etc.

thekillman
November 14th, 2009, 12:59 PM
Rush found his own skull. when the kino is tossed through, you see his body. then, when they find the Kino, they find a human skull, at approximately the same location.

Lanter1000
November 14th, 2009, 01:35 PM
No, his motives are about his wife. First I thought it was a 9th chevron = time travel thing but now I think it's an ascension thing. Why couldn't she have ascended? Because she wasn't 'advanced'? Uh, McKay wasn't 'advanced'. Plus, Oma Desala was pulling people into ascension without them 'releasing their burdens', etc.

Well, In understand how you think. But McKay could only ascend if he wanted to because of the Ancient device. How likely is it that the Atlantis Expedition used that device on a person again? And have we heard anything of other people on Earth ascending except for Daniel Jackson? And humans are not advanced enough to ascend on their own without Oma Desala and Ancient devices. That is at least how I understand it. Correct me if I´m wrong.

Vladius
November 14th, 2009, 01:40 PM
Oh, man, even the standalone episodes are vital to the plot!

Captain Obvious
November 14th, 2009, 01:47 PM
Is that likely? Even if ascension propably inspired human cultures into the myth of life after death, ascension is not the same thing as the traditional afterlife. Ascension is only possible for a few people advanced enough. The rest of us will just cease to exist after we die.

Rush is very intelligent and of course he knows that his wife couldn't possibly have ascended. His motives must be something else.

How do we know this? As far as we know, Daniel helped his dying wife acend like he offered to do for jack. Now Rush's life's work is to ascend to be with her.

anything is speculation at this point.

EllieVee
November 14th, 2009, 02:03 PM
Well, In understand how you think. But McKay could only ascend if he wanted to because of the Ancient device. How likely is it that the Atlantis Expedition used that device on a person again? And have we heard anything of other people on Earth ascending except for Daniel Jackson? And humans are not advanced enough to ascend on their own without Oma Desala and Ancient devices. That is at least how I understand it. Correct me if I´m wrong.

Well, you may not be wrong. Equally, I may not be wrong.

And I'll throw something else into the mix, since we're speculating: how about she was an Ancient in the first place? At this stage, anything is possible.

MacGyverInSpace
November 14th, 2009, 02:47 PM
Rush is only on Destiny for the glory, he really belongs on Atlantis. He'd much prefer the amenities and constant uninterrupted access to the Dao machine and the Database. But, as we have seen on the show, he's willing to put up with a lot of crap for Destiny, and afixing his name to it.

Mythophile
November 14th, 2009, 03:40 PM
It sounds like Rush has a theory about death and ascension, and he's looking for proof. Me thinks he wants to know if dying and ascending are the same thing, and that dying is just a forced ejection from your body while ascension is voluntary.

garhkal
November 14th, 2009, 04:17 PM
Wait... if he wants ascension... can't he just go to the ascension planet in Pegasus?

That's assuming they know about it. I am not sure if all the Pegasus mission reports were standard reading for the other side..


It doesn't make sense for Rush to go to the Destiny to look for ascension since there's way more stuff on ascension in the Milky Way and Pegasus. Atlantis has the latest information on ascension. There's the ascendomatic and the planet where Anubis created Khalek, which is full of technology and research data. There's also Kheb and the planet in Pegasus the Ancients created for people to learn ascension. Plus Destiny was probably launched before the Ancients learned about ascension.

The Ascendomiter i think is either offline or has been torn appart after Mccays incident. As to the Khalek machine, perhaps it only worked on him..


It sounds like Rush has a theory about death and ascension, and he's looking for proof. Me thinks he wants to know if dying and ascending are the same thing, and that dying is just a forced ejection from your body while ascension is voluntary.

That is one way to look at things. Would go a long way to explain why he was so calm when the ship looked like it was going to be destroyed by diving into that sun.

SBN
November 14th, 2009, 04:34 PM
It sounds like Rush has a theory about death and ascension, and he's looking for proof. Me thinks he wants to know if dying and ascending are the same thing, and that dying is just a forced ejection from your body while ascension is voluntary.

Hmmm....this is a really interesting theory, I like it. I would disagree strongly with MacGyverInSpace:


Rush is only on Destiny for the glory, he really belongs on Atlantis. He'd much prefer the amenities and constant uninterrupted access to the Dao machine and the Database. But, as we have seen on the show, he's willing to put up with a lot of crap for Destiny, and afixing his name to it.

Rush is arrogant, but then again he seems to be quite intelligent. I do not think for a moment that Rush is motivated by anything such as glory, attention, greed, etc..He appears to be on a personal mission, and would happily have gone to Destiny alone never to be heard of again. The fact that others have gone with him is merely a minor complication or necessary evil. But I do not see one ounce of anything that would lead us to believe he is motivated to satisfy ego.

EllieVee
November 14th, 2009, 05:17 PM
Rush is only on Destiny for the glory, he really belongs on Atlantis. He'd much prefer the amenities and constant uninterrupted access to the Dao machine and the Database. But, as we have seen on the show, he's willing to put up with a lot of crap for Destiny, and afixing his name to it.

Wow, I just don't know what show you're watching. ROFL!

jsonitsac
November 14th, 2009, 06:35 PM
I got the impression that Rush seems to be interested in Ascending. Obviously he's too late to ask Oma to help him out but if he is trying to ascend it would explain his obsession with the Ancients and Destiny. Perhaps he's seeking clues there?

If he is attempting to ascend why bother trying to connect to Destiny? Wouldn't it have made more sense for him to travel to Kheb and study what Oma left behind in that temple?

Finally, is Rush worthy of ascension?

Lightning Ducj
November 14th, 2009, 06:38 PM
Old enough to know what's right but young enough not to choose it
Wise enough to win the world, but fool enough to lose it

DigiFluid
November 14th, 2009, 06:52 PM
I got the impression that Rush seems to be interested in Ascending. Obviously he's too late to ask Oma to help him out but if he is trying to ascend it would explain his obsession with the Ancients and Destiny. Perhaps he's seeking clues there?

If he is attempting to ascend why bother trying to connect to Destiny? Wouldn't it have made more sense for him to travel to Kheb and study what Oma left behind in that temple?
Well two things on that front....

1) Maybe Rush's understanding of ascension (and I'm not sure I disagree) is the cumulative growth in one's own knowledge and wisdom. That end, maybe he's following the Ancients' path in hopes that it's the journey that results in ascension.

2) We don't even know if Kheb is still standing....yes, Oma zapped all those Jaffa. But Apophis still found the planet, and after she left it probably ended up as part of his domain. We really don't have any way of knowing if Oma's temple is even standing anymore, Apophis might've bombarded it from orbit because it was different from his own god-image.


Finally, is Rush worthy of ascension?
Personally, I don't feel that we know enough about him yet to make that level of character judgement :)

Terra Atlantus
November 14th, 2009, 06:53 PM
Finally, is Rush worthy of ascension?


There is only one thing we can truly control...Whether we are good or evil.



I want to say yes. I believe we all deserve a fair judgement in a perspective of our choices by a neutral source like The Ancients.
They can see beyond all the bad things we've done and compare that to what we really are.

But at this point, I don't think we know enough about Rush.

escyos
November 14th, 2009, 06:54 PM
mayeb rush believes there is technolgy out there that can help him bring back his wife...or at least a robot copy

jsonitsac
November 14th, 2009, 07:02 PM
If Rush was so interested in ascending why not ask the SGC if he could go to Kheb and study the temple there?

erotavlas
November 14th, 2009, 07:10 PM
IMO whether Rush is worthy or not is irrelevant. Anubis learned how to ascend and he was definitely not worthy. Neither were the Ori.

EllieVee
November 14th, 2009, 07:17 PM
mayeb rush believes there is technolgy out there that can help him bring back his wife...or at least a robot copy

He'd need to ask Joss Whedon for a lovebot.


If Rush was so interested in ascending why not ask the SGC if he could go to Kheb and study the temple there?

There's no indication that he's interested in ascending himself just that he's interested in ascension.

Stormtrooper
November 14th, 2009, 07:40 PM
Rush is a Replicator.

curiositykitty
November 14th, 2009, 08:04 PM
Is it just me or was rush talking about ascension in regards to the woman in the picture he was holding a few eps ago. Not having seen anything but sgu im not very knowledgable about ascension but i got the vibe that rush is trying to find a way to free ones consciousness from ones body and that that somehow relates to that woman. Any thoughts?

curiositykitty
November 14th, 2009, 08:13 PM
Clearly i missed something. How do we know the woman in that pic is rushs wife and how do we know shes dead? Ive been so obsessed with young and tj i think i missed some other vital info. I do think rush talking about ascension is related somehow to the woman in the pic.

Franklyn Blaze
November 14th, 2009, 08:27 PM
IMO whether Rush is worthy or not is irrelevant. Anubis learned how to ascend and he was definitely not worthy. Neither were the Ori.

Anubis transferred his consciousness to a cloned body so he wouldn't be identified as goaould and used Oma to ascend. Maybe Rush is looking for an ascended ancient too.

meo3000
November 14th, 2009, 08:36 PM
IMO whether Rush is worthy or not is irrelevant. Anubis learned how to ascend and he was definitely not worthy. Neither were the Ori.

Anubis couldnt ascend on his own, he fooled Oma in helping him. I dont know if an evil person can ascend on its own, i doubt it, one thing is for sure, those already "up there" cant interfere, whether they like it or not.

knowles2
November 14th, 2009, 09:00 PM
They can interfere but only if enough ancients goes along with the plan.

As to Rush being interested in Ascension, I think it a little misdirection from the writers of the show. What ever he there for I do not believe it searching Ascension.

Replicator Todd
November 14th, 2009, 09:06 PM
I'm not sure is Ascension is exactly what Rush is for, I honestly think he is just deeply fascinated or obsessed with the Ancients, in a even deeper way than Daniel Jackson.

Sam StarEagle
November 14th, 2009, 10:01 PM
I think Daniel was closest to the truth when he remarked there probably weren't any real "rules" for how it worked... And even the Ancients weren't infallible even after they ascended, so there's probably infinite possibilities for what could be "beyond" physical life...

When it comes to why he's interested, I think he thinks his wife crossed over to some other existence and thinks the Ancients found the best way connect to that existence...

Dark lord me
November 14th, 2009, 10:06 PM
Well I personally think that the way the show will end is that since they can't dial earth they find a way to ascend and they re-take human form bakc on earch except Eush and maybe Eli

wargrafix
November 14th, 2009, 10:33 PM
part of the path to ascension is the letting go of baggage. And Rush is carrying 2 airports' worth of baggage.

SBN
November 14th, 2009, 10:35 PM
Clearly i missed something. How do we know the woman in that pic is rushs wife and how do we know shes dead? Ive been so obsessed with young and tj i think i missed some other vital info. I do think rush talking about ascension is related somehow to the woman in the pic.

Well come to think of it, we don't know. I was basing my opinion on a spoiler I thought I got out of an interview that I am not so sure about anymore. It could be we have all just speculated the same thing and made an educated guess at what the picture was, and what it meant.

Commander Zelix
November 14th, 2009, 10:48 PM
Clearly i missed something. How do we know the woman in that pic is rushs wife and how do we know shes dead? Ive been so obsessed with young and tj i think i missed some other vital info. I do think rush talking about ascension is related somehow to the woman in the pic.
Speculation for me. The guess seem educated enough.

BurningIce
November 14th, 2009, 11:22 PM
part of the path to ascension is the letting go of baggage. And Rush is carrying 2 airports' worth of baggage.
That, and customs are suspicious of the baggage contents.

Encoder
November 15th, 2009, 01:24 AM
I certainly think that his goals were to understand the ancients and eventually ascend.

He certainly showed us this side tonight!

:sheppard:

pipi
November 15th, 2009, 04:59 AM
I don't think Rush is particularly hell bent on ascension. It was just a spur of the moment thought when the topic was brought up. It's like if someone asked you, would you like a million dollars? You obviously say yes that would be nice! Then would it be an assumption that you always wanted a million dollars?

Sonicbluemustang
November 15th, 2009, 05:37 AM
Ascension = the same as being a ghost. :)

Soledat
November 15th, 2009, 05:41 AM
Ascension = the same as being a ghost. :)

Not exactly, ascened can exist in way more "corporeal" form than ghost and have more power.

kymeric
November 15th, 2009, 03:42 PM
Why wouldnt he sneak onto atlantis and make a replicator wife from his memories? Easy enough to build a blank AI replicator that sticks its hand in his head, extracts all his memories ABOUT his wife, then replicates as her?

shipper hannah
November 15th, 2009, 03:58 PM
Defintely B.
I think it suggests that the reason he wanted to get to The Destiny so bad was because he wanted to discover the secrets of ascension to escape his own mortality.

I honestly don't think Rush believes his wife ascended. No way.

Eternal Density
November 15th, 2009, 04:28 PM
Why would Rush expect to find any secrets of ascension on the Destiny?

Soledat
November 15th, 2009, 05:00 PM
He was aiming for the adress with the 9th chevron, hoping that he'll find something ancient I suppose. I don't think he had any idea what it would be, but since he's on Destiny already, I think that he will try to learn as much as he can.

Maybe he hopes to find any Ancients who ascended or a way to communicate with them? Don't make an assumption that EVERYTHING he does leads to his wife. Of course his attitude was probably caused by her death, but i don't belive that all of his actions are driven by the fact she died.

Blistna
November 15th, 2009, 05:35 PM
I think he's simply afarid of dying

Before rush jumped in the gate, he said a quote that basically means he knew he was going to die. Thread that shows you info on the quote: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=10845961#post10845961


I didn't want to create a whole new topic for this, but did anyone else wonder where exactly Rush ended up after he decided to go through the 'broken' wormhole on his own?

Is it possible he further back in time than anyone has suspected and has been aboard Destiny well before everyone ended up on it?

re-watch show. the kino goes in and u see rush on the ground, not moving. he was dead.

oh, and here is a twist. what if his wife is alive, but he lost her in a divorce because he was so obsessed with ascension/9th chevron, and now that she wont come back to him, he wanted a new life wherever this 9th cheveron lead?

or...who knows, it might not even be about his wife/girl in picture...but about something else.

EllieVee
November 15th, 2009, 08:07 PM
Why wouldnt he sneak onto atlantis and make a replicator wife from his memories? Easy enough to build a blank AI replicator that sticks its hand in his head, extracts all his memories ABOUT his wife, then replicates as her?

Cos it might be a bit difficult to 'sneak' onto Atlantis?

EllieVee
November 15th, 2009, 08:08 PM
Why would Rush expect to find any secrets of ascension on the Destiny?

He wouldn't necessarily, now that he knows where the ninth chevron leads. Previously, he didn't know.

CaptainMorgan
November 15th, 2009, 08:27 PM
I think we are all being too simple minded about Rush's past. Not only do we not know much about his "wife" (or so we think its his wife) but we don't know of his previous experience in the stargate program. What if Rush was one of the people that was put on Atlantis after it got to Earth to study the information it contained? What if he's been to some of the other places that have mentioned in this thread? He could easily have read the ancient information on ascension that is stored in Atlantis along with the information about the Destiny (and not revealing he knew it was at the end of the 9th chevron address).

We just don't know enough about his past to eliminate a lot of possibilities.

Eternal Density
November 15th, 2009, 08:35 PM
He wouldn't necessarily, now that he knows where the ninth chevron leads. Previously, he didn't know.Rhetorical question, good answer.

Alan Wake
November 15th, 2009, 08:58 PM
I don't know if he specifically wants to ascend himself, but I definitely saw this scene as hinting at the fact that Rush has motives on the Destiny that no one else is aware of. This makes twice now that he's mentioned ascension.

Again, this is why we can't write this episode off as "pointless" just because time resets. We're still learning things that we hadn't already known.

Rush had no idea what the destiany before they all got on the ship.

How could his motives involve it?

Soledat
November 16th, 2009, 03:40 AM
Rush had no idea what the destiany before they all got on the ship.

How could his motives involve it?

Exactly! For all he knew, they could have ended in a city full of living ancients. I think he might have preferred this option, but instead he's on Destiny which falls apart every time they try to do something.

langdonboom
November 16th, 2009, 05:56 AM
Old enough to know what's right but young enough not to choose it
Wise enough to win the world, but fool enough to lose it

Rush, exactly.

Commander Zelix
November 16th, 2009, 06:23 AM
Rush had no idea what the destiny before they all got on the ship.

I think Rush knew more about the 9th Chevron and the Destiny that he let it out.

The Ori
November 16th, 2009, 01:22 PM
I think one day we will have a very sad episode about Rush and his wife, and the realisation that Rush has to let her go! I have no doubt about that!! It will be a good episode that will show a lot about his character!

Jeff O'Connor
November 16th, 2009, 01:30 PM
I'm with everyone who believes he's trying to immortalize himself and/or his wife, especially the wife bit.

Blistna
November 16th, 2009, 01:34 PM
I think we are all being too simple minded about Rush's past. Not only do we not know much about his "wife" (or so we think its his wife) but we don't know of his previous experience in the stargate program. What if Rush was one of the people that was put on Atlantis after it got to Earth to study the information it contained? What if he's been to some of the other places that have mentioned in this thread? He could easily have read the ancient information on ascension that is stored in Atlantis along with the information about the Destiny (and not revealing he knew it was at the end of the 9th chevron address).

We just don't know enough about his past to eliminate a lot of possibilities.

I agree, because we know the "icarus project" started 6 months b4 they went to the Destiny, and we don't know when Atlantis left Earth, nor do we know when SGU actually happens. But if Atlantis is on Earth...one day, it might be possible to dial Destiny (if they ever find more ZPM's). Just a thought.

SupremeLegate
November 16th, 2009, 01:35 PM
I think one day we will have a very sad episode about Rush and his wife, and the realisation that Rush has to let her go! I have no doubt about that!! It will be a good episode that will show a lot about his character!

From spoilers it seems we will learn more about Rush in "Human"

Commander Zelix
November 16th, 2009, 01:39 PM
From spoilers it seems we will learn more about Rush in "Human"
Its always appreciated to put spoilers in spoilers tags. Whatever small or big they are. Sometime I like to watch episode without knowing anything at all about the episode.

Merlin's_Legacy
November 16th, 2009, 02:33 PM
I have a theory, based partially on things we know and a couple of assumptions.

First, we can possibly assume Rush has been to Atlantis or was given access to the copy of the database that was sent back to Earth because we KNOW from the first episode that the 9-Chevron address was found in the Atlantis Database.

Now, from what we have seen and heard on screen, all we know about the woman in the picture is that she is someone very important to Rush. We have no idea whether she is dead or alive. My assumption is that she is Rush's wife. I'm not sure whether she is dead or maybe still alive and terminally ill or maybe even in stasis somewhere.

If she is still alive, then it's possible Rush is searching for a cure. Granted Atlantis might be a better location for that too.

Now one more assumption... I think it can be assumed that everyone knew that the 9th Chevron address would lead to somewhere farther away than anyone had ever imagined. It's possible, but unlikely, that Rush believed that the 9C address may have been a shortcut to ascension.

My theory: Rush is pulling a Sybok (Startrek V). He somehow knew, guessed, or deduced that the 9C address would lead to a ship that was traveling toward the "edge" of the Universe. He maybe believes that if he can travel far enough he can find the outer limit of the universe then cross that barrier to the ascended plane, or "heaven". He thinks the Destiny is his best shot at accomplishing that.

Regardless, he obviously believes that Destiny is something big if he puts it above Atlantis as "the most important human discovery since the Stargate itself".

kymeric
November 17th, 2009, 08:04 AM
Cos it might be a bit difficult to 'sneak' onto Atlantis?

Not with Rushes qualifications and Atlantis parked by Sanfrancisco. I bet if he applied for a transfer there it would be approved.

aretood2
November 17th, 2009, 09:18 AM
Not with Rushes qualifications and Atlantis parked by Sanfrancisco. I bet if he applied for a transfer there it would be approved.

It would be denied by the head of the Department of science...Mckay.

Mythophile
November 17th, 2009, 04:02 PM
part of the path to ascension is the letting go of baggage. And Rush is carrying 2 airports' worth of baggage.

Maybe that's why he's interested in it. Maybe he think it will help him let go of the past.

EllieVee
November 17th, 2009, 05:13 PM
It would be denied by the head of the Department of science...Mckay.

McKay doesn't like competition.