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Stu
November 13th, 2009, 12:42 PM
One of the coolest features for me regards the SG-1 series was the gradual evolution in status/power of the SGC. They started off as tiny fish in a huge pond fumbling and making rookie mistakes as they ventured out, but everytime they did slowly gathering more and more knowledge until they ended up on par with some of the big powerhouses in the galaxy.

First it was the X-301, the F-302, then the big daddy Prometheus or 303 class battlecruiser, and not to mention the many Goa'uld vessels they captured over the years (and the Daedalus class 304's which finally appeared in Atlantis). And the same applies to the many weapons they acquired from the Zat to the Anti-replicator weapon.

Mongoletsi
November 13th, 2009, 03:12 PM
Kinda agree. Kinda felt it went a bit OTT. I liked it when we were underdogs to the Goauld. Suddenly we have all this power, so new enemies were needed to balance it out (and dominate us again). But... the Ori & Replicators really weren't as good baddies as the snakegods!

The Prophet
November 13th, 2009, 03:20 PM
I reckon we should have stopped at Promethius. It was a big, clumsey, mismatched starship, but it was ours. <3

The Daedalus was a little pushing it, but seeing as it was mostly Atlantis-Earth run, it was acceptable. I reckon it should've been focused more on speed than Weapons/Defences. Would've made it more believable.

Then, suddenly, we have advanced 304s everywhere, and other countries seem to be commanding them now (Korlev, Sun Tsu).

The Promethius - Daedalus - Many 304s - Uber-Odyssey jumps were too great, I feel.

We should have just stuck with clunky 303s, that weren't that reliable and occasionally exploded.

That, or taken a few Ha'taks and motherships after the Goa'uld fell. Ready made ships and all.

magictrick
November 13th, 2009, 03:21 PM
The evolution was kind of cool. Although personally I prefer the early seasons when Earth is just learning about the different technologies out there and they are still very primitive when it comes to space travel, battle cruisers and ancient weapons.

The problem with evolution is that they needed to keep adding more powerful enemies to balance things out. The thing with that was that these new enemies weren't very interesting. And although they were depicted as super powerful, they were still defeated by Earth which in everyone's eye is still "primitive".

I think this is why I like SGU. They have this amazingly advanced ship at their disposal yet they cannot use it. Its less about evolutions of technology and more about character evolution/development.

Mongoletsi
November 13th, 2009, 04:05 PM
The evolution was kind of cool.
Agree with everything you just said above.

Stu
November 13th, 2009, 11:34 PM
Yeah, I understand the problem with: more advanced technology = more powerful enemies. But let's face it, if they had gone through 10 seasons and still hadn't advanced to the point where they could at least attempt to defend themselves, it would be pretty lame.

I guess my point was that the advancement was inevitable, and so they got the balance right - IMO it didn't progress too quickly, but at a reasonable pace over the 10 Seasons. I suppose I was also happy with the Prometheus class, but seeing as the Daedalus was mostly Atlantis based I found it acceptable.

amconway
November 22nd, 2009, 09:23 PM
It makes sense that they would put acquired technology to use, but I think it happened too quickly and became too advanced.

In ten years, they went from having no ships to having one of the most advanced fleets in the galaxy. That's fast. Really fast. In real life it would have taken ten years to build one ship. This is science fiction, of course, and a show that does a lot of unrealistic things, but stil.... Fans have such a high expectation of Earth's superiority in space that there was great complaint that the Hammond couldn't easily defeat three Ha'taks--three of the Goa'ulds most powerful ships. The expectation was false, but it says something that it was there.

Besides removing the feeling that stargate takes place in current time, the advances meant that, if the series had continued, they would have had to do something major to reduce capabilities and expectations. It simply wouldn't have been possible to find villains more powerful than the Ori.

It would have been better if it had taken them the whole ten years to reach the level of the Prometheus, and that more things went wrong. It would also have been better if they didn't get the Asgard core. I suspect that the only reason they did was that beam technology was simply too convenient a device to ignore. Unfortunately, ships--and the beam technology, in particular--dramatically reduced the use of the stargate, to the show's detriment, in my opinion.

Jeff O'Connor
November 22nd, 2009, 09:27 PM
The hardest pill to swallow for me is that 'we now have' ships capable of hopping over to a neighboring galaxy and capable of tearing a hole through anything we meet out there, and yet the public still isn't allowed to know anything.

The fact that since 2006 within the fictional universe, humanity has had nigh-unstoppable war machines and yet here at the tail end of 2009 it's still so hush-hush is only made a bit simpler to take by knowing how diverse the world we live in really is. Maybe the governments are still fearful of extremist uprisings regardless of how mighty we are? But it's just... yes. I agree with amconway that building up toward the Prometheus would have been a better route.

But it's easier for us to say that now, in retrospect. Thinking back on while the series was running, maybe it just wouldn't have been enough oomph without significant steps. Still, it's really the last few years that have been the worst offenders about dramatic leaps.

amconway
November 22nd, 2009, 09:33 PM
But it's easier for us to say that now, in retrospect. Thinking back on while the series was running, maybe it just wouldn't have been enough oomph without significant steps. Still, it's really the last few years that have been the worst offenders about dramatic leaps.

Agreed. Most of the damage to the concept was done in seasons 8-10, when I suspect there was pressure to do so. Network executives probably weren't telling them to go back to the discovery and cultural exploration of the first 3-4 seasons, they were probably asking for bigger space battles and, if SGU is anything to go by, more sex--more's the pity. ;)

Jeff O'Connor
November 22nd, 2009, 09:35 PM
Agreed. Most of the damage to the concept was done in seasons 8-10, when I suspect there was pressure to do so. Network executives probably weren't telling them to go back to the discovery and cultural exploration of the first 3-4 seasons, they were probably asking for bigger space battles and, if SGU is anything to go by, more sex--more's the pity. ;)


Hey, some of those space battles looked pretty wicked. But while they were enjoyable, they didn't really mesh with Stargate as the concept of something top-secret going on while we're ignorant to it, nor the notion that we're bumbling every which way, which made earlier seasons all the more charming.

amconway
November 22nd, 2009, 09:41 PM
Hey, some of those space battles looked pretty wicked. But while they were enjoyable, they didn't really mesh with Stargate as the concept of something top-secret going on while we're ignorant to it, nor the notion that we're bumbling every which way, which made earlier seasons all the more charming.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good space battle as much as the next person, but they should have been very rare, and very difficult to pull off sucessfully. They spent years building up to the battle in Lost City, so it was amazing. Likewise, the battle at the Ori supergate. They couldn't pull it off and it was just horrifying. Space battles never became as commonplace in SG-1 as in SGA, but you can't separate Earth's capability in one show from the other, especially in terms of viewer expectation.

Jeff O'Connor
November 22nd, 2009, 09:44 PM
Yeah, precisely.

Both those battles were quite awesome, too. I concur.