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Shpinxinator
November 6th, 2009, 08:56 PM
What happend to Jack? When did he lose his backbone??

MattSilver 3k
November 6th, 2009, 08:58 PM
What happend to Jake? When did he lose his backbone??

Well, Jake ain't there any more, sorry to say. He never existed.

Jack, on the other hand, is fine. A little overweight, but still himself.

Nemises
November 6th, 2009, 09:01 PM
jake is in deep space nine and is presumably writing stories.

Replicator Todd
November 6th, 2009, 09:01 PM
Jack seemed fine to me!

Avenger
November 6th, 2009, 09:02 PM
I read that he had surgery on both feet, and as a result, has put on a lot of weight. Wasn't really able to be active prior to the surgery.

Pharaoh Atem
November 6th, 2009, 09:03 PM
Jack seemed fine to me!

thank you!!!!!

Detox
November 6th, 2009, 09:03 PM
Jack O'Niell?

Not quite sure who you're talking about. Is he a friend of yours?

meo3000
November 6th, 2009, 09:06 PM
- Surprise!

Ah Rick, i miss you so much. I can always trust him to make me smile.

Jedted
November 6th, 2009, 09:42 PM
Actually, when he puts on the uniform, RDA really doesn't look that that bad. His face looks a little fat but that's what happens when ya get older. :)

Pharaoh Atem
November 6th, 2009, 09:59 PM
"gurbles about the uses of the word fat

Gatebsg
November 6th, 2009, 10:12 PM
What happend to Jack? When did he lose his backbone??

where did he back down in the episode?

leiasky
November 6th, 2009, 10:27 PM
I thought O'Neill was perfectly fine.

I didn't like the blatant insubordination on the part of Young, though. O'Neill should have handed him his ass for some of his comments.

Arlan
November 6th, 2009, 10:30 PM
I thought O'Neill was perfectly fine.

I didn't like the blatant insubordination on the part of Young, though. O'Neill should have handed him his ass for some of his comments.

Young was relieved of his command for most of the episode. That's something for a guy who's physically billions of light years away.

leiasky
November 6th, 2009, 10:37 PM
The 'We've gone through the time I've allotted for this meeting' at the end was an incredible show of insubordination. O'Neill should have hauled him into his office and had more than a word.

Uncle Tobias
November 6th, 2009, 10:42 PM
oops, wrong thread!

Ontopic though I like how we saw O'Niell in this ep, it really follows up on "I'm used to sticking it to the man, not being the man". I think he empathises with Young

Franklyn Blaze
November 6th, 2009, 10:42 PM
He looks too doughy. Time for him to go on a crash diet. :)

leiasky
November 6th, 2009, 11:00 PM
Ontopic though I like how we saw O'Niell in this ep, it really follows up on "I'm used to sticking it to the man, not being the man". I think he empathises with Young


It'd be nice character continuation if that is the case.

I think you're right, though. He probably does empathize with Young, but that doesn't mean he should take public insubordination without at least dressing down Young a bit.


He looks too doughy. Time for him to go on a crash diet. :)

RDA looks like he's lost a considerable amount of weight since SGU was filmed. There were photos taken a few weeks ago at a Sea Shepherd event and he looks quite good.

Franklyn Blaze
November 6th, 2009, 11:10 PM
Ya here he is:
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9928/whalewars2.jpg (http://img52.imageshack.us/i/whalewars2.jpg/)

But I remember him looking better:
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5822/rdasmile.jpg (http://img52.imageshack.us/i/rdasmile.jpg/)

leiasky
November 6th, 2009, 11:11 PM
Post the rest of those photos from that event, please. Because he's wearing all white and the tummy is considerably smaller. People loose weight in different places.

Anyway, I was glad to see Jack in SGU and am sad we won't see him again for a long time.

Franklyn Blaze
November 6th, 2009, 11:18 PM
Here you go. :) Ya, face is always the last to go.
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3277/whalewars1p.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/whalewars1p.jpg/)
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9220/whalewars4.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/whalewars4.jpg/)

Lord Kira
November 6th, 2009, 11:56 PM
Jack was right. The military is not a democracy.

Young was being a douche.

MattSilver 3k
November 7th, 2009, 01:10 AM
The 'We've gone through the time I've allotted for this meeting' at the end was an incredible show of insubordination. O'Neill should have hauled him into his office and had more than a word.

You know, I get the feeling O'Neill was cool with it - simply because he wanted Young in command and not Telford. When Young stood up for himself and grew a pair while Telford ran away, O'Neill let it slide.

missmobius
November 7th, 2009, 01:39 AM
What happend to Jack? When did he lose his backbone??

OMG, I was thinking the same thing, I was so angry that they have changed his personality!!!!!

I AM FURIOUS AT THIS!!!!!!!!!!

Even though I ADORE RDA (and it's the only reason I watched through the whole episode last night), if I were him I'd tell them to shove their show into a black hole!!!!! It's like their trying to kill the love fans have for the Jack O'Neill character.

I'm extremely disappointed!!!!!

kymeric
November 7th, 2009, 01:45 AM
Slap in the face! Slap in the face! Slap in the face!


Kidding i liked it and i suspect Oneill set Young up to grow a pair based on their conversation at the beginning. Hes molding Young into a better leader, and that means standing uo for yourselves. Particularly when ur a bazillion LY away and Young could permantly cement his greater authority over hear by smashing the box the stones go on.

Really other than loosing the odd way to shag his wife Young dosent have much to loose, and alot to gain by cutting themselves off. Earth looses access to knowledge about the ENTIRE UNIVERSE gathered over millions of yrs by the seeder ships.

Young should have Earth by the nads.

missmobius
November 7th, 2009, 01:53 AM
O'Neill is not going to be on the show for a long time????

I hope not :(

Commander Zelix
November 7th, 2009, 02:09 AM
O'Neill was ok.

UniverseSizePlotHole
November 7th, 2009, 02:26 AM
C'mon its just the "burden" of command has manifested itself as well as the automatic "spine removal" operation that you get when posted to the Pentagon eg Major Davis LOL

bobsenior
November 7th, 2009, 02:27 AM
Don't get me wrong I prefer General O'Neill to General Landry, but why is Jack suddenly back in charge of the SGC? Earth, Jack O'Neill Quote: "Colonel, my office"

Infinite-Possibilities
November 7th, 2009, 02:28 AM
Maybe it just becomes his office when he shows up? Or maybe Landry gave him his own office. Or something.

solid-snake56
November 7th, 2009, 02:30 AM
Don't get me wrong I prefer General O'Neill to General Landry, but why is Jack suddenly back in charge of the SGC? Earth, Jack O'Neill Quote: "Colonel, my office"
It's not the SGC. ;)

knowles2
November 7th, 2009, 02:43 AM
Because it not SGC, it Home world security, which one could presume he been place in charge of since Hammond passed away.

MattSilver 3k
November 7th, 2009, 02:43 AM
Don't get me wrong I prefer General O'Neill to General Landry, but why is Jack suddenly back in charge of the SGC? Earth, Jack O'Neill Quote: "Colonel, my office"

You couldn't tell that the Earth stuff was at the Pentagon, not the SGC? With the different sets, with the establishing shots of the Pentagon, with Homeworld Command on a sign in the hallways?

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
November 7th, 2009, 02:48 AM
the next time we see rick is at the end of the season

bobsenior
November 7th, 2009, 02:51 AM
Yeah but in Air - Parts 1-3 he is stationed at the SGC in Landry's office!? But yeah I guess he could have just been borrowing it, I just think it's strange seeing as the actor Richard Dean Anderson said years back he was planning to retire!?!

MattSilver 3k
November 7th, 2009, 02:52 AM
Yeah but in Air - Parts 1-3 he is stationed at the SGC in Landry's office!?

That's still Homeworld Command...

bobsenior
November 7th, 2009, 02:58 AM
O yeah, just checked, so it is :) my bad

siles
November 7th, 2009, 03:02 AM
I'm so sad that Jack's become a paper-pusher :(

Jeffala
November 7th, 2009, 04:23 AM
I'm so sad that Jack's become a paper-pusher :(

And thrown quite a few of his principles out the window along the way, so it seems--but hey, if Carter says it will work...

thekillman
November 7th, 2009, 04:27 AM
carter never said it would work.

also, he still looks like he's not entirely healthy, and well, disease CAN change people.

to me, it seemed like jack wasnt entirely happy with it either. he's just in a position, that he cant just ignore all of command to do "the right thing".

loved how Young looked up to O'neill

Jeffala
November 7th, 2009, 04:35 AM
carter never said it would work.

Then I don't understand the point of bringing her up. Anyhoo. I've not had an opportunity to re-watch the episode, but I've drawn from it the following conclusions:

1. Telford is a d-bag.
2. O'Neill is well on the way to being a d-bag.
3. Wray is untrustworthy, seeming to go along with the idea and encourage it because it could increase her standing with the IOA, an organization made up of d-bags.
3. Chloe is evil.
4. Rush is still untrustworthy.

Re: Rush, did he allow the experiment to fail on its own or did he set it up to fail? Was the (controlled?) overload part of his plan or was it spontaneous?

Lord Hurin
November 7th, 2009, 04:44 AM
Well, I was concerned that making Jack seem like a "bad guy" would actually work the opposite way: many fans of SG-1 would still think that whatever he says is gospel, no matter what it is and thus direct their dislike towards Young et al for disagreeing with O'Neill. Thank god it doesn't look like that's happening... Yet.

You could definitely tell that Jack was uncomfortable with the whole thing, and that he seems to like Young more than he does Telford. This plan was approved and Jack was told to make it happen by the President, though. He can't exactly just shrug that off.

Also, Jack bringing up Carter was due to Young saying he didn't understand a lot of the plan. Jack was trying to relate about how many times Carter explained a complex plan, in vain, to O'Neill during their tenure together on SG-1.

wargrafix
November 7th, 2009, 04:52 AM
Jack was right. The military is not a democracy.

Young was being a douche.

And that is the problem. The motivations of the military was questionable at best. IOA is screwing around with the lives of the crew.

I'm really hoping Chloe's mom goes public. That should make for some interesting drama.

segaxgames
November 7th, 2009, 04:54 AM
Jack oniel sucksssssssssssssssssssss in sgu

Orion Antreas
November 7th, 2009, 05:07 AM
The 'We've gone through the time I've allotted for this meeting' at the end was an incredible show of insubordination. O'Neill should have hauled him into his office and had more than a word.

I think Jack can sympathize with Young and understands that if they were in opposite positions, Jack would probably be doing the same. Jack was pretty insubordinate during his time as commander of SG-1. :P


Jack oniel sucksssssssssssssssssssss in sgu

Wow, that's an elegant and intelligent post.

VSS
November 7th, 2009, 05:10 AM
On JM's blog he said this ep would explain why Carter and McKay didn't help out with the Destiny, but that was never discussed, was it? It still appears to be some random group of scientists- albeit the "best minds on earth". I guess McKay and Carter just aren't on earth, huh?

Lightning Ducj
November 7th, 2009, 05:11 AM
The 'We've gone through the time I've allotted for this meeting' at the end was an incredible show of insubordination. O'Neill should have hauled him into his office and had more than a word.

I got the feeling that the timing for the meeting had to be pre-arranged because someone at the other end would disconnect so he only had a limited time for the meeting

MattSilver 3k
November 7th, 2009, 05:17 AM
On JM's blog he said this ep would explain why Carter and McKay didn't help out with the Destiny, but that was never discussed, was it? It still appears to be some random group of scientists- albeit the "best minds on earth". I guess McKay and Carter just aren't on earth, huh?

And honestly, would McKay consent to body swap? Ever? My thoughts were to him not wanting to, due to his experience with all kinds of tech that could go wrong: Ancient shields, time travel, alternate universes, an extra consciousness in his head...

VSS
November 7th, 2009, 05:19 AM
And honestly, would McKay consent to body swap? Ever? My thoughts were to him not wanting to, due to his experience with all kinds of tech that could go wrong: Ancient shields, time travel, alternate universes, an extra consciousness in his head...

Not to mention the 9th chevron. That's already gone wrong in a big way.

Count
November 7th, 2009, 05:26 AM
Remember, O'neill is now where Hammond used to be, juggle the needs of his people with the needs of his world. So he can't stick it to the man as much as he used to. Of course O'neill's not going to have the same willingness to disregard orders or proceedure as he used to, he can't thanks to his position.

talyn2k1
November 7th, 2009, 05:30 AM
The 'We've gone through the time I've allotted for this meeting' at the end was an incredible show of insubordination. O'Neill should have hauled him into his office and had more than a word.

I think they were fooling O'Neill as much as anyone else at the beginning of the episode. When the plan failed and Telford cut and run, I think O'Neill realised that Young really was the best man for this job. He allowed his insubordination to slide because he saw a bit of himself in Young.


I got the feeling that the timing for the meeting had to be pre-arranged because someone at the other end would disconnect so he only had a limited time for the meeting

Don't think so. He can just disconnect the stones at the Earth end to go back. I think it was just his way of cementing his control over the situation. He is the commander of Destiny, and they better play nice or else...

syfygal47
November 7th, 2009, 05:40 AM
I wonder what happened to our wisecracking Jack of SG-1. This Jack is much too serious. I don't like this change of personality at all.

VSS
November 7th, 2009, 05:47 AM
I wonder what happened to our wisecracking Jack of SG-1. This Jack is much too serious. I don't like this change of personality at all.

It's the show. It would be out of place for him to be joking around like he did on SG-1- I think that's why his line about the spaceship (at the start of Air) seemed weird to me. That said, I think a little more sarcasm would be good. Sarcasm isn't always a joke- but it's always Jack.

leanbarton
November 7th, 2009, 06:16 AM
O'Neill hasn't changed too much. But I suspect with age and his desk job he has softened a bit.

Once you become a "manager"/colonel, you would have a different outlook on things than when you were on the ground running.

It's natural for Jack to change his outlook somewhat.

missmobius
November 7th, 2009, 06:34 AM
the next time we see rick is at the end of the season

OH NO,,,,devastated:jack_new_anime25:

missmobius
November 7th, 2009, 06:37 AM
I wonder what happened to our wisecracking Jack of SG-1. This Jack is much too serious. I don't like this change of personality at all.

only "wisecrack" if you wanna call it that was the "surprise" at the beginning.

I miss Jack! Why do they screw around with a proven fan draw!

You can't deny that Jack O'Neill had/has a huge fan base!

Pharaoh Atem
November 7th, 2009, 06:39 AM
Don't get me wrong I prefer General O'Neill to General Landry, but why is Jack suddenly back in charge of the SGC? Earth, Jack O'Neill Quote: "Colonel, my office"

he's in charge of homeworld security since season 9 of sg1

Pharaoh Atem
November 7th, 2009, 06:40 AM
I wonder what happened to our wisecracking Jack of SG-1. This Jack is much too serious. I don't like this change of personality at all.

i think the line "surprise" was def classic oneill

EvilSpaceAlien
November 7th, 2009, 06:49 AM
Jack oniel sucksssssssssssssssssssss in sgu

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w42/barrow_co2/Facepalm.jpg

aream2000
November 7th, 2009, 06:51 AM
i agree, i think O'Neill has changed, part of it is most likely because his job is alot more stressful than in sg-1

VSS
November 7th, 2009, 07:06 AM
i agree, i think O'Neill has changed, part of it is most likely because his job is alot more stressful than in sg-1

He said he was doing "quite good" in Continuum, though.
I think the most stressful job was when he was in charge of the SGC. He doesn't have to do things like he did in End Game and Zero Hour anymore. That job has to be the worst one of all, it's amazing Hammond lasted as long as he did in that position.

leiasky
November 7th, 2009, 07:11 AM
You know, I get the feeling O'Neill was cool with it - simply because he wanted Young in command and not Telford. When Young stood up for himself and grew a pair while Telford ran away, O'Neill let it slide.


I can believe that. It is something Jack would do and does keep with his character and personality from SG-1.

Maxum
November 7th, 2009, 08:08 AM
Jack was right. The military is not a democracy.

Young was being a douche.

Except that the crew of the Destiny is made up mostly of civilians, not military. I think that was Young's point to Jack.

As for Jack's spine, it's still there and fully intact. I like that Jack took Young into his office and they both expressed their mutual respect for each other. I think the animosity and disrespect at the end was directed at the IOA and Telford, which is something Jack himself has done many times when sitting at a table with Hammond and other Washington types. If anything, I think Jack sees a bit of himself in Young, minus the wisecracking, of course. I really like Young. He's my favorite character, and I'm looking forward to some more interaction with him and O'Neill.

Pharaoh Atem
November 7th, 2009, 08:10 AM
i agree, i think O'Neill has changed, part of it is most likely because his job is alot more stressful than in sg-1

actually i think his newe job has changed in a good way. he can just sit back and relax and not have to worry about commanding a team and keeping everyone safe.

and last i knew the milky way galaxy is safe so earth would also be safe.

Spimman
November 7th, 2009, 08:22 AM
Sounded like he was getting orders from above, but he is smart enough to follow orders.

IrishPisano
November 7th, 2009, 08:39 AM
being in command changes your perspective on things and your attitude

jack is no longer a field commander, he is the Chief of Homeworld Security.... (which means Earth, the SGC, ATLANTIS, Former Icarus Base, the Destiny crew, and Earth's blossoming SPACE FLEET)..... that will give you a different perspective on things


and, also, let's not forget that O'Neill was once suicidal and that the whole reason he joined Stargate Command was so that he could kill himself on Abydos with a gigantic nuke...


time changes
situations change
people change
c'est la vie

i actually would HATE to see O'Neill being in his current office while still being the maverick he was as a colonel... that would be completely unacceptable for arguably the most important military officer on the planet.

Col. Tomorian
November 7th, 2009, 09:08 AM
Don't get me wrong I prefer General O'Neill to General Landry, but why is Jack suddenly back in charge of the SGC? Earth, Jack O'Neill Quote: "Colonel, my office"
I like having Jack in charge, but I want to know why he is being a jerk. I am beginning to hate Jack O'Neil. If this is how Jack is going to be written for now on, I might as well burn all of my Stargate dvd sets.

Pardon me while I get the fire ready.

WishIwasJoes
November 7th, 2009, 09:08 AM
Because Jack rocks. Duh. :lol:

Col. Tomorian
November 7th, 2009, 09:17 AM
As a matter of fact, I have made up my mind on something. If they don't fix Jack O'Neil's attitude and willingness, I'm NOT going to buy the next SG-1 movie. Period.

Col. Tomorian
November 7th, 2009, 09:22 AM
What happened to Jack? When did he lose his backbone??
Oh, I agree with you. If this is the new direction Jack is being written, I'm not going to buy the next SG-1 movie. I did a double-take from his unwillingness to cross the line. Spineless-jerk Jack O'Neill!

I have my fire ready. If they don't change him back, I'm going to start burning the SG-1 dvd sets.

If they ever get the Stargates: Worlds released, I refuse to put any money down on that game. Since they want to stick it to the fans, I say we should stick it to the franchise.

ttsec
November 7th, 2009, 09:25 AM
Here you go. :) Ya, face is always the last to go.
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3277/whalewars1p.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/whalewars1p.jpg/)

Is the guy on the right Jake?

IrishPisano
November 7th, 2009, 09:25 AM
Oh, I agree with you. If this is the new direction Jack is being written, I'm not going to buy the next SG-1 movie. I did a double-take from his unwillingness to cross the line. Spineless-jerk Jack O'Neill!

I have my fire ready. If they don't change him back, I'm going to start burning the SG-1 dvd sets.

If they ever get the Stargates: Worlds released, I refuse to put any money down on that game. Since they want to stick it to the fans, I say we should stick it to the franchise.

you obviously do not comprehend what it means to be in command

leiasky
November 7th, 2009, 09:27 AM
I'm starting to come to the understanding that Jack because he's a rebellious sort is giving Young a great deal of rope in hopes that he'll turn out to be a great leader. The orders Jack gave Young (and Telford I assume) came from above him. Which is the President. Jack's hands were tied in some ways, but in those small ways (that I didn't really notice on first viewing) he's letting Young get away with a few more things. . . so that he (Young) can stick it to the IOA in ways that Jack can't in his current position. Jack has to play somewhat nice with the IOA being in his position. Young - doesn't.

If Jack chose Young to lead, he's got a good reason. I very badly want to see more Young and Jack interaction.

leiasky
November 7th, 2009, 09:33 AM
On JM's blog he said this ep would explain why Carter and McKay didn't help out with the Destiny, but that was never discussed, was it? It still appears to be some random group of scientists- albeit the "best minds on earth". I guess McKay and Carter just aren't on earth, huh?

I'm guessing they're not on Earth either.

Otherwise, when Young called O'Neill in the middle of the night, he wouldn't be up doing paperwork. He'd be home in bed with Sam:)

Col. Tomorian
November 7th, 2009, 09:33 AM
Man, I hated this bureaucratic junk when it was used in SG-1. I think its time to just walk away from Stargate as a whole.

Stargate is science-fiction meets mythology. Its not suppose to have a heightened sense of reality.

IrishPisano
November 7th, 2009, 09:37 AM
Man, I hated this bureaucratic junk when it was used in SG-1. I think its time to just walk away from Stargate as a whole.

Stargate is science-fiction meets mythology. Its not suppose to have a heightened sense of reality.

i similarly disliked the NID, IOC, IOA storylines.....


but they are not, in my opinion, all that bad in SGU
either i'm used to them
or its better written

i say, give SGU a full season before deciding...

i mean, i once turned off The Godfather after 5 minutes bc it was boring
then i watched the first half hour - and found out it was f****ing awesome

Col. Tomorian
November 7th, 2009, 09:49 AM
IrishPisano,
There has already been seven episodes, so I already know which direction they are taking. I don't need a full series to tell me otherwise.

VSS
November 7th, 2009, 10:43 AM
Sounded like he was getting orders from above, but he is smart enough to follow orders.

Right. The President is the Commander in Chief, and Jack has to follow his orders, like it or not.


I'm guessing they're not on Earth either.

Otherwise, when Young called O'Neill in the middle of the night, he wouldn't be up doing paperwork. He'd be home in bed with Sam:)

Yeah. No point in going home.

ttsec
November 7th, 2009, 10:54 AM
Right. The President is the Commander in Chief, and Jack has to follow his orders, like it or not,

Not true. U.S. Military soldiers are sworn to the constitution, not to the president or any individual persons or groups of people. I know because I have mil. experience.

VSS
November 7th, 2009, 11:03 AM
Not true. U.S. Military soldiers are sworn to the constitution, not to the president or any individual persons or groups of people. I know because I have mil. experience.

Does this look familiar?


I , (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Skydiver
November 7th, 2009, 11:05 AM
Is the guy on the right Jake?
the guy on the right is captain paul watson of Sea Sheppard

ttsec
November 7th, 2009, 11:09 AM
Does this look familiar?

No, cause I dropped out half-way through training.

but you should bold this part too:
according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

VSS
November 7th, 2009, 11:09 AM
No, cause I dropped out half-way through training.

:)

Well, then I guess you missed that part.

Codemann17
November 7th, 2009, 11:45 AM
I thought Jack acted very . . . "Jack" considering he is a 3 star. I have never seen Generals correct Officers or Enlisted in front of a crowd, they do exactly what Jack did "Colonel, my office!" And everyone knows what that means (hes getting a butt chewin') It's just how diplomatic Generals are. If a general wants to dress down an officer, particularly a Colonel in front of a crowd, (and I stress *wants because the higher ups don't cut each others legs off), then he would get another Colonel, or a 1 star, or from time to time his own personal Command Chief to do it.

But that didn't happen. Jack used his "Jackness" on the situation which I thought was very in line with the character we know and love. He tried a bit of reason referring to Colonel Carters miraculous last minute schemes, and appealed to his since of duty referring to the President's orders.

Bottom line: Young should have worked with Jack. Instead Young dictated the situation. And the dynamic in the Pentagon room at the end conveyed to me that what happened (concerning the whole operation the President ordered) was exactly what Jack hoped for.

And after thinking about it, if you think Jack should have dressed down Young in front of everyone, then Hammond should have demoted O'Neil to Lt. considering the things Jack has said. But we were privileged to watching that character relation unfold. In this case, the relation is already there, we just have to figure it out (and that is true for all the characters).

I love this show! (even if it is Battlestar Voyager 90210)

Good lord, long post, sorry, I didn't mean to, my thoughts just got away from me. . .

kennythewraith
November 7th, 2009, 12:19 PM
he seemed fine to me...people just are over reacting to his new role...he cant be sarcastic all the time anymore.he has waaaay too much responsibility right now...besides he would be a huge dbag if he was cracking jokes about the situation aboard the destiny while hes safe on earth having secret rendevous with sam....i mean wat do people want from him...gilligan's island jokes about the destiny crew?

CaramelMonkey
November 7th, 2009, 12:27 PM
I thought he was fine. It was awesome enough seeing him in the episode in the first place! :D

siles
November 7th, 2009, 12:51 PM
Right. The President is the Commander in Chief, and Jack has to follow his orders, like it or not.



He could always resign or retire...
to be with Sam (sic!)

siles
November 7th, 2009, 12:53 PM
Not true. U.S. Military soldiers are sworn to the constitution, not to the president or any individual persons or groups of people. I know because I have mil. experience.

That's right! I was following orders is not a valid excuse, not since the Nuremberg trials.

The Mighty 6 platoon
November 7th, 2009, 01:33 PM
That's right! I was following orders is not a valid excuse, not since the Nuremberg trials.

Yeah it works a little differently to that. Basically either accept the orders unless they break some military rule, (which all the stuff that came up at Nuremburg would do in modern militaries anyway) or resign ones commission.

Durgia
November 7th, 2009, 08:42 PM
I did not see a problem with the way he was acting.

Jack acted the same way he did in SG1 when dealing with Lt's and Major's. He was always a bit of a jerk to those guys.

People seem to want Jack to act like he did with Carter and Jackson. You forget...

Young is not Jack's friend.
Young was not on Jack's team.

For those that want Young dressed down... it would not happen in reality in most cases. Jack is now literally "the man" but Young is a senior officer in homeworld command. Most decent officers will not dress down a senior commander in front of witnesses unless it is absolutely necessary.

As far as I could see... Jack got exactly what he wanted out of the situation. He wanted Young in command from the start. Young refused the expedition command and even after being trapped was hesitant. Jack played him like a fiddle and got him to man up and take charge, like he wanted from the start of the Icarus Project.

Morrolan
November 7th, 2009, 08:51 PM
Jack has changed. But given his position and the way he is handling things, I see a little George Hammond in him. I miss the old Jack too, but I like the evolution of the character from field commander to military bureaucrat. It's a believable change.

Questions I have is was Jack lying when he said Telford and the others were ordered to sever the stones connection if the Destiny could not be saved? And did Young know about the plan? He didn't seem too surprised.

ckwongau
November 7th, 2009, 09:02 PM
General Jack said the plan was from
Earth's Best mind

Did Sam worked on the "plan", because Jack would be lying if Sam was not one of the people came up or worked on the " plan ".

Personally I think Rush would be more cooperating if he knew Sam recommanded it.


And did Jack cover for Telford's cut and run beheavior , it was perfectly within Telford's right to cut and run like a chicken with or without Jack's order.

But Telford's action speak for his character, how can General Jack tolerate someone like Telford under his command.

Jack use to make a lot of sound about Tok'ra ,about Tok'ra were not team player and self their own purpose.

Carlos-Curitiba
November 7th, 2009, 10:50 PM
It has passed five years since the last time RDA apeared at SG-1. In five years he got some kg more and also more 5 year old, and is a little different of the one we get used to see in SG-1. He is form 25/01/1950 and shold be about 60 years oldnow.He was 47 when SG- begun (1997).

He is different now, how he was different of McGiver, when started in SG-1.
The time passes...and we get old...

ewnif
November 7th, 2009, 11:58 PM
Jack seemed fine to me!

I saw a few issues with our 3-Star General version of Jack O'Neill:


Between the 3 Star General SGU Version of JON and the Colonel JON somwhere along the line he lost his sense of doing the right thing, instead the SGU version does the bureaucratic thing...



Since when is it believable that a 3-Star General has a cracker-jack (pardon the pun) sized box for an office? He would have at least a Military attache and a secretary...



The real thing that I saw in the JON bit-part was a deep angst on the part of TPTB towards the continuation the Stargate Franchise. You saw it certainly in Atlantis Season 5 and partially in Season 4. If the TBTB don't want to commit to quality production they s/ commit to different writers.

ZonerDude
November 8th, 2009, 01:26 AM
I really enjoy Jack's role on SGU. He is a bit different but everyone changes over time and it shows growth on his part. I think he interacts well with Young and it's a good way to have RDA have quite a pivotal role on the show without having to make a large amount of appearances. Everytime I've seen him this season has been good, as well as the small cameos by DJ and Sam. SGU has a different tone to the other shows and I like it and hope Jack is used in this role a few times a season. I think he has more relevance here than he could've ever had on Atlantis.

Encoder
November 8th, 2009, 04:41 AM
O'Neill's problem truely is politics.

In the field, when you're in command, things are easier to decide as they only affect those in your command (usually a small team). When you're in charge of Home World Command (pfft) then you have to take other people goals into consideration as well unfortunately!

Never get promoted above Colonel :)

:sheppard:

IrishPisano
November 8th, 2009, 05:54 AM
does anyone else miss the suicidal Jack that defeated Ra?

Cobra847
November 8th, 2009, 06:09 AM
He's changed, that's for sure.

For the better? Don't think so- but he still retains parts of the old jack.

IrishPisano
November 8th, 2009, 07:05 AM
He's changed, that's for sure.

For the better? Don't think so- but he still retains parts of the old jack.

changed?
not really

why?
because he's in command

i'm sure if you get him and daniel and murray in a room together, that you'll have the "old" jack back...

JohnDuh
November 8th, 2009, 07:22 AM
What happend to Jack? When did he lose his backbone??

In this dimension Jack only has one L in his name.

missmobius
November 8th, 2009, 07:48 AM
i love this show! (even if it is battlestar voyager 90210)


lol

Ed
November 8th, 2009, 08:11 AM
He is clearly emulating Hammond a lot and also playing young.

I hope we see some of SG1 together like their old selves even sam acted differently in Commander of the Hammond she said after minuets we are going as commander of a team she would never leave anyone behind but as commander of the ship her crew come first.

Command changes people i hope Shepard never gets promoted permenant though maybe an ark about him doing it and failing would be cool but he isnt made to be anything above his current rank maybee a 304 comander at a push.

garhkal
November 8th, 2009, 10:51 AM
where did he back down in the episode?

In his 'catwowing on the plan to what the IOA wanted over the concerns of young and co. We have seen him stand up for what his men feel is right over what the uppers want time and time again. HECK young even called him on it.


Jack was right. The military is not a democracy.

THe Mil isn't. BUT there are a heck of a lot more civilians there than mil.


This plan was approved and Jack was told to make it happen by the President, though. He can't exactly just shrug that off.

They ignored the Pres before. The gate was shut down in Season 1, by Kinsey but with Pres approval. BUT jack and co ignored that to go through it.


I think Jack can sympathize with Young and understands that if they were in opposite positions, Jack would probably be doing the same. Jack was pretty insubordinate during his time as commander of SG-1.

Which to me is why he did not call Young on his insubordination. BUT i cannot understand why someone who was so willing to rock the boat when it was the right thing, got so willing to be the one telling you do to do X when it was not the right thing.


And honestly, would McKay consent to body swap? Ever? My thoughts were to him not wanting to, due to his experience with all kinds of tech that could go wrong: Ancient shields, time travel, alternate universes, an extra consciousness in his head...

Yup. Heck i do think he said after Duet, he would never want for something like that ever again.


you obviously do not comprehend what it means to be in command


While i know some can remain the same most do get changed by it. BUT i just hoped he would be one of those who would not have changed.


Personally I think Rush would be more cooperating if he knew Sam recommanded it.

Why do you say that> DO we know Rush likes or even recognizes her?


it was perfectly within Telford's right to cut and run like a chicken with or without Jack's order.

No it was not within his rights. As the senior officer, if you put into plan an operation that can cause all your underlings to die (which this could have) you don;t just up and walk away leaving them all in the lurch.

Jeffala
November 8th, 2009, 02:46 PM
The 'We've gone through the time I've allotted for this meeting' at the end was an incredible show of insubordination. O'Neill should have hauled him into his office and had more than a word.

It's hard to haul someone to your office when they're disconnected after X minutes from the other end and aren't there to be hauled around anymore.

ZonerDude
November 9th, 2009, 04:31 AM
He's looking much healthier now, RDA that is. I'm looking forward to his next appearance. So sad it's so far away.

Steelbox
November 9th, 2009, 06:41 AM
Our Jack now is a Three Star General. He has lots and lots more responsibility than before. Also before he had Hammond to protect him against the NID wrath. When he was a Colonel and when he disobey orders, he know that if he failed any attempt, he would probably die and earth would be destroyed. Now disobeying an direct order from the president, he has no one to try and protect him, and he has now where to go. He will have to chose retirement or resign or if the IOA get really upset even imprisonment.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
November 9th, 2009, 06:50 AM
Our Jack now is a Three Star General. He has lots and lots more responsibility than before. Also before he had Hammond to protect him against the NID wrath. When he was a Colonel and when he disobey orders, he know that if he failed any attempt, he would probably die and earth would be destroyed. Now disobeying an direct order from the president, he has no one to try and protect him, and he has now where to go. He will have to chose retirement or resign or if the IOA get really upset even imprisonment.


well given General O'Neill's Impeccable Service but saving the world a few times (Season 1/2 Season 3/4 Season 5 (with the asteroid) Season 6 (Redemption Parts 1 and 2) Season 7 (Lost City Part 1 and 2) im sure the president would want Jack to Retire

Krennson
November 10th, 2009, 03:12 AM
The 'We've gone through the time I've allotted for this meeting' at the end was an incredible show of insubordination. O'Neill should have hauled him into his office and had more than a word.

the way I interpreted that was "If i'm not back on destiny and answering questions only I would know in the next five minutes, My people have orders to confine my body, disregard any orders it may give, and turn of the stone's sending platform."

Which yeah, probably qualifies as insubordination, and maybe even mutiny, but under the circumstances, he can probably get away with it. It's not like O'neill hasn't pulled similiar stunts himself, back in the day.

IrishPisano
November 10th, 2009, 09:50 AM
the way I interpreted that was "If i'm not back on destiny and answering questions only I would know in the next five minutes, My people have orders to confine my body, disregard any orders it may give, and turn of the stone's sending platform."

Which yeah, probably qualifies as insubordination, and maybe even mutiny, but under the circumstances, he can probably get away with it. It's not like O'neill hasn't pulled similiar stunts himself, back in the day.

it's only mutiny if he attempts to wrest command away from his superior...

without a forced change of command, it's not mutiny, just insubordination


Plus, they can't really do anything to Young because any punishment to him (such as imprisonment on earth) would be a violation of Telfor'd basic human rights.....

yessika
November 10th, 2009, 01:52 PM
Plus, they can't really do anything to Young because any punishment to him (such as imprisonment on earth) would be a violation of Telfor'd basic human rights.....

And what's so wrong with violating Telford's rights? It's not like he is a nice guy or anything

jelgate
November 10th, 2009, 02:55 PM
Plus, they can't really do anything to Young because any punishment to him (such as imprisonment on earth) would be a violation of Telfor'd basic human rights.....

And what's so wrong with violating Telford's rights? It's not like he is a nice guy or anything

Everyone deserves basic human rights no matter how much of a jerk they are.

IrishPisano
November 10th, 2009, 05:14 PM
Everyone deserves basic human rights no matter how much of a jerk they are.

yeah i'm talking about basic human rights, not legal american rights

to have his body imprisoned - presumably against his will - when he has irrefutably done nothing wrong is what i would consider to be a violation of his basic human rights.... the right to life, and the right to liberty...

Azzers
November 10th, 2009, 06:00 PM
Jack's probably very conflicted as to what *is* correct here. Yes, he wants Young to follow his orders. But at the same time, that group is too far away to assert any real authority if his orders make them too mad. They want to get home, but they have no reason to trust people who aren't living through their ordeal.

The military isn't providing any real help or support right now, yet there is still an expectation that the crew will feel loyalty. It's partially true, but I think many (and Jack seems to already know) are going to realize that there's a limit to how much of a hard-ass you can be in that situation. Jack seems like he's taken the role of trying to tell Young what he needs to hear rather than trying to control him directly. Events of Earth notwithstanding.

Replicator Todd
November 10th, 2009, 08:41 PM
Everyone deserves basic human rights no matter how much of a jerk they are.
:indeed: But in this day of age, what are basic human rights?

garhkal
November 10th, 2009, 08:57 PM
Jack's probably very conflicted as to what *is* correct here. Yes, he wants Young to follow his orders. But at the same time, that group is too far away to assert any real authority if his orders make them too mad. They want to get home, but they have no reason to trust people who aren't living through their ordeal.

The military isn't providing any real help or support right now, yet there is still an expectation that the crew will feel loyalty. It's partially true, but I think many (and Jack seems to already know) are going to realize that there's a limit to how much of a hard-ass you can be in that situation. Jack seems like he's taken the role of trying to tell Young what he needs to hear rather than trying to control him directly. Events of Earth notwithstanding.

I did not think of that. BUT looking back on it, it makes more sense now.

Infinite-Possibilities
November 11th, 2009, 01:22 AM
:indeed: But in this day of age, what are basic human rights?

Well, freedom from rape sounds like a given for starters.

Rachel500
November 11th, 2009, 01:55 AM
Actually, I think the episode was all about Jack protecting Young and forcing Young to get some backbone while dancing a fine line along the politics of the situation.

From Jack's perspective, he's on Earth dealing with the fallout of the attack on the Icarus base and 80 odd people ending up on the Destiny. On one hand, he's got the President who was a personal friend of the Senator who died and who is probably getting hassle from the Senator's widow to get her daugher home, ordering him to fix it. On the other, he's got the IOA wanting to get their grubby little hands on the Destiny and piling on pressure. And, on a personal level, he probably wants to try and get everyone home (he's always believed and stuck to the credo of never leaving anyone behind).

So, he's had people working the problem and they come up with a solution; a risky solution, a solution based on tenuous science, but it's a solution. It's more than the Destiny crew have come up. I think from Jack's perspective, it's worth giving it a shot because as he says - he's had his butt rescued a heck of a lot with science he didn't necessarily understand. So he's OK with the order from the President to give the solution a try.

And here's Young.

Young who is not enthusiastic and focuses on whether the risk is too great to even try, who has already expressed a fatalistic, pessimistic viewpoint to Jack in his report in Air (we don't have food and water, we're all likely to die), who is basically telling Jack that he doesn't feel he has command of the ship but needs a consensus from the rest of the survivors...and Young's insistence that he doesn't care if it's an order he needs to handle it his way is a clear signal to Jack that Young is going to disobey the order due to a lack of 'gumption' to take control of the situation and give the solution a try.

So why does Jack agree to remove Young and send in Telford?

Firstly, I do think Jack isn't happy about the idea of the hijacking of the bodies. I think he appreciates it's not the right thing and even states to Young that he doesn't like it but I think in Jack's head he didn't really have a choice but to agree if he was going to protect Young and also have them try the solution.

In terms of protecting him, having the hijacking happen and by not giving Young a chance to state out loud that he wasn't going to follow the order, (and therefore have directly disobeying an order on his record), Jack has protected Young's record.

Jack points out to Young that he has trust in him to command (he was the first choice for the expedition command) but Young himself had declined it claiming he didn't have it in him - and the prod there IMO is to get Young thinking about that; because his behaviour is suggesting he maybe doesn't have it in him and that's partially why he's been removed. So I also think Jack's discussion with Young here is a subtle kick up the backside of 'you said you didn't want it; we've given you an out which is perhaps the wrong way of doing it but think about what you want.'

So, when the solution is tried and fails, Young ends up back on the Destiny in command and he actually fully takes command. We see him giving a speech to the crew, providing them with hope. And we see him also question the outcome of the rescue attempt in having Eli check the data.

We also see him standing up to the Earth command both in subtly deriding Telford's act of abandoning ship and in letting them know the decision to remain in contact with Earth is in the Destiny crew's hands and they are now taking precautions (that's what I got from the 'time allotted' comment) to prevent further hijackings. And Jack backs him up: he waits an enormously long time before noting Telford did have orders to bug out, and he immediately agrees to Young's assertion that visits to loved ones will continue despite the IOA's play to use that as a negotiating chip.

The events of Earth, IMO, turn Young from the reluctant commander of the Destiny trying to hold it together, to accepting and wanting command of the Destiny. And that's in part, IMO, down to how Jack handled him and events.

VJC
November 11th, 2009, 12:50 PM
The events of Earth, IMO, turn Young from the reluctant commander of the Destiny trying to hold it together, to accepting and wanting command of the Destiny. And that's in part, IMO, down to how Jack handled him and events.
Bingo, we have a winner!!:cool:
IMO that was the biggest thing to come out of this episode. Young is no not a rookie commander, but a grown up, trusted one. that was THE thing the writers got across.

siles
November 12th, 2009, 04:26 AM
Everyone deserves basic human rights no matter how much of a jerk they are.

Tell that to the poor guys at Guantanamo...
If they'd really want to go dark with the show they could have IOA and US retaliate against the families the people on "Destiny" left behind.

Ripple in Space
November 12th, 2009, 04:33 AM
He is clearly emulating Hammond a lot and also playing young.

I hope we see some of SG1 together like their old selves even sam acted differently in Commander of the Hammond she said after minuets we are going as commander of a team she would never leave anyone behind but as commander of the ship her crew come first.

Command changes people i hope Shepard never gets promoted permenant though maybe an ark about him doing it and failing would be cool but he isnt made to be anything above his current rank maybee a 304 comander at a push.

I think Shep wouldn't want a promotion that would keep him off of the front lines. Jack surely didn't, but accepted it because he realized that without Hammond, the entire Stargate Program would get screwed if he didn't step up.

The Mighty 6 platoon
November 12th, 2009, 04:46 AM
I think Shep wouldn't want a promotion that would keep him off of the front lines. Jack surely didn't, but accepted it because he realized that without Hammond, the entire Stargate Program would get screwed if he didn't step up.

That and he presumably realised he was getting a little old to go gallivanting about off world.

IrishPisano
November 12th, 2009, 05:25 AM
That and he presumably realised he was getting a little old to go gallivanting about off world.

yup...

it was your classic, "if you want it done right, do it yourself" situations for jack...

i wonder who'd take over when Jack retires for good

and i wonder what Daniel's up to now.............. i would be ol' danny boy's taken up residence on Atlantis to study it....

Saquist
November 12th, 2009, 05:53 AM
Jack seemed fine to me!

The Jack I know wouldn't have rushed this and put everyone at risk.

IrishPisano
November 12th, 2009, 06:03 AM
The Jack I know wouldn't have rushed this and put everyone at risk.

1. you don't know Jack...... in both senses of the phrase

2. a LOT of ppl on here are forgetting something:
Jack is not a field operative anymore... he is in command of homeworld security... he is in COMMAND....... being in command changes your perspectives and priorities and personality a lot......

The Mighty 6 platoon
November 12th, 2009, 07:07 AM
The Jack I know wouldn't have rushed this and put everyone at risk.

The Jack you "know" was quite willing to shoot an unarmed priest in Red Sky if Daniel hadnít stopped him. I think too many people have this conception of Jack O'Neill being somehow this really nice person and forgetting he's in the military and no stranger to hard decisions.

IrishPisano
November 12th, 2009, 07:36 AM
The Jack you "know" was quite willing to shoot an unarmed priest in Red Sky if Daniel hadnít stopped him. I think too many people have this conception of Jack O'Neill being somehow this really nice person and forgetting he's in the military and no stranger to hard decisions.

bingo

let's not forget that the first thing we ever learned about Jack and his military actions was that he was willing to detonate a NUCLEAR BOMB and blindly slaughter hundreds to thousands of innocent people
without pause

garhkal
November 12th, 2009, 03:44 PM
Tell that to the poor guys at Guantanamo...
If they'd really want to go dark with the show they could have IOA and US retaliate against the families the people on "Destiny" left behind.

For what?

MattSilver 3k
November 12th, 2009, 04:04 PM
For what?

"Let us into the ship so we can fix it and maybe kill you all in the process, or your families get it!"

Ripple in Space
November 12th, 2009, 07:19 PM
That and he presumably realised he was getting a little old to go gallivanting about off world.

I don't know, his last off-world mission was on Atlantis years after he became a General. There he seemed at least as able-bodied as Shep...

Avenger
November 12th, 2009, 08:16 PM
I don't know, his last off-world mission was on Atlantis years after he became a General. There he seemed at least as able-bodied as Shep...

There's a difference between going off world to Atlantis only to be attacked while you're there and going out on field ops all the time like when he was commanding SG-1.

IrishPisano
November 13th, 2009, 02:12 AM
There's a difference between going off world to Atlantis only to be attacked while you're there and going out on field ops all the time like when he was commanding SG-1.

indeed

i mean generals in real life make trips to or are even stationed at/in command of military combat bases but rarely if ever engage in combat....



lets not forget, ppl, that O'Neill was already retired before Daniel deciphered the 7th symbol......

missmobius
November 13th, 2009, 04:46 AM
bingo

let's not forget that the first thing we ever learned about Jack and his military actions was that he was willing to detonate a NUCLEAR BOMB and blindly slaughter hundreds to thousands of innocent people
without pause

that was the Stargate movie O'Neill (Kurt Russell), not the SG1 one (RDA).

TexaspartaN
November 13th, 2009, 05:34 AM
Isn't that the truth :D

IrishPisano
November 13th, 2009, 06:21 AM
that was the Stargate movie O'Neill (Kurt Russell), not the SG1 one (RDA).

ah, BUT, the story and events of Stargate are canon for SG-1 - save for the few minor details (like Abydos being in the Milky Way, etc)

Jack's story is still the same...

Saquist
November 13th, 2009, 11:06 AM
The Jack you "know" was quite willing to shoot an unarmed priest in Red Sky if Daniel hadnít stopped him. I think too many people have this conception of Jack O'Neill being somehow this really nice person and forgetting he's in the military and no stranger to hard decisions.

That has nothing to do with anything.
This is about putting the people in your command in unnecessary danger.
You're defending the warping of an established character.

garhkal
November 13th, 2009, 02:33 PM
"Let us into the ship so we can fix it and maybe kill you all in the process, or your families get it!"

I will give you that..

Mongoletsi
November 13th, 2009, 07:35 PM
He's 59 for heavensake!

sg-1fanintn
November 13th, 2009, 08:01 PM
He's going to look better in regular photos than on TV right now...because the TV camera adds 20+ pounds.

I saw him last August at Gatecon, and he looked fab! Yes, he was a little heavier, but he looked great. So, I think the TV camera is accentuating the extra weight.

He did promise he'd lose 30 pounds in time for the third SG-1 movie to be made...but that keeps getting pushed back... :(

Driskoll Xun
November 13th, 2009, 09:16 PM
I also thought Jack was perfect in this episode. He did the best with the information given to him. He's alway relied on the experts. On screen, it usually works out for him. Regarding Telfords orders: I believe OíNiell was referring to the objective, not the cut-n-run bit. It seemed that he only stated that Telford was under orders because it was appropriate. While one hopes that a soldier will go above the call of duty, it cannot be expected. I think it is obvious in the scene that Jack loses respect for Telford.

IrishPisano
November 14th, 2009, 08:38 AM
He did promise he'd lose 30 pounds in time for the third SG-1 movie to be made...but that keeps getting pushed back...

that's to give RDA time to lose the weight
lol

leiasky
November 14th, 2009, 12:09 PM
that's to give RDA time to lose the weight
lol

That's ridiculously not true.

IrishPisano
November 14th, 2009, 12:18 PM
That's ridiculously not true.

you never know

banlu
November 14th, 2009, 02:39 PM
~wandering in from lurkdom~

What I didn't like about this ep is Jack being 'wrong'. On SG-1, Jack and/or a teammember were always in the right, and to drive the plot of the show, the people above them were the ones that were wrong.

But this show is about Young and Rush and all the others, and now Jack is one of the 'people above' so he has to be the one that is 'wrong'. I have to accept that as Jack's role now, but I won't like it LOL

As for the office - that's the one in the command center - he probably has a flashy one somewhere else where he meets folks not privy to the Stargate.

And LOLOL at "Battlestar Voyager 90210" Would that then make this BV9?

banlu ~wandering back in to lurkdom~

justanotherjen
November 14th, 2009, 08:17 PM
Considering the amount of stress Jack is probably under I think he was pretty in character. I got the feeling he's a bit conflicted over what is going on. He's being pressured by the president and the IOA to do something to get destiny home but has to trust in Rush and Young that they know what they are talking about since they are there and he isn't.

I saw the scene in his office as Jack's way of trying to get through to Young...either take control of the situation or it's going to be taken away from you. Up until this point Young has been a bit of a reluctant leader, taking command because he's the senior officer. He knows he has to do something but he can't trust Rush and doesn't get the science of what is going on. He needs to be able to trust the people under him.

Jack didn't want Telford taking control of Destiny but didn't have much choice in the matter. He tried to warn Young. I liked Young calling him on the whole "the military isn't a democracy." Jack's forgetting that most of the people on Destiny are not military. Young can't order them to do anything. He has to be just as diplomatic as Jack has to be. I mean, how often did Daniel follow Jack's orders in the field...at least without arguing over them first.

The final scene with them meeting cracked me up...the whole "allotted time" thing. Blatant insubordination and it was awesome. It was Young finally growing a pair and realizing he's a billing light years away and there's not much they can do to him. He has to do what is best for Destiny not the IOA. And I wouldn't be surprised if Jack cracked a smile about the whole thing in the privacy of his office. It's something he would have done back when he was a colonel and he can accept the insubordination. Hammond put with a lot from Jack, Jack will do the same with Young.

J_schinderlin56
November 15th, 2009, 09:02 PM
I don't know what his deal was either, this plan was good in principal, but not very well thought out. I can't see him going along with it. Why? Because I can't see Carter or Mckay going along with it. O'neill's been through the gate enough times to know how to look before you leap. "Hello! New Guys!!!!"

And I'm sorry, I just can't see Jack being ok with Telford wuss retreat, it was down right Kensey like in it's cowardus.

Kensey: Mr President we should get to the Alpha Site.
President Hayes: Go ahead bob.
General Hammond: I think you know we're staying with you Mr. President

I could almost imagine the old Jack grabbing the Jack from this episode's face.

Gen O'neill: What are you doing?
Colonel O'neill: Looking for the edges OF A MASK!!!!!!!!!

And as for the IOA.
The IOA is an organization of sniveling opportunistic sleeze bags. They've poisoned what the Stargate Program is. We might as well have turned the S.G.C. over to the Trust, at least they were honest about their goals.

When the most honest, dignified and upstanding person in your organization is Richard Woolsey..... you have real problems.

Petra
November 16th, 2009, 12:08 PM
Jack didn't want Telford taking control of Destiny but didn't have much choice in the matter. He tried to warn Young. I liked Young calling him on the whole "the military isn't a democracy." Jack's forgetting that most of the people on Destiny are not military. Young can't order them to do anything. He has to be just as diplomatic as Jack has to be. I mean, how often did Daniel follow Jack's orders in the field...at least without arguing over them first.


I disagree with you here. I don't think Jack forgot about the civilian personnel. It's just that Stargate is still a military run operation. All civilians are Air Force civilian contractors and hence they have to do what military tells them. Remember McKay in "48 hours" (SG-1 season 5)? When gen. Hammond told him he was being sent to Russia Rodney was like "I'm a civilian, I don't have to go" to which he was told that yes, he has to, as long as he's on the Air Force payroll. Daniel could argue all he wanted but in the end he had to either follow Jack's orders or get him to change his mind; he couldn't do what he pleased. Heck, Teal'c and Jonas were aliens and they still had to follow Air Force rules.

So Jack was absolutely right: military isn't a democracy and it's Young's responsability to make sure everyone on ship follows his lead. It was Jack's duty to make Young understand this, "man up" and take charge. And I think he succeeded.

natyanayaki
November 26th, 2009, 03:19 PM
You know, I get the feeling O'Neill was cool with it - simply because he wanted Young in command and not Telford. When Young stood up for himself and grew a pair while Telford ran away, O'Neill let it slide.

I agree with this. I also think Jack is in an interesting situation, in a lot of ways he's a lot like Hammond. Jack did not blindly follow command, he tried to do what he felt was right for his people, but now, he is part of the bureaucracy, and as such has a certain responsibility. I think like Hammond respected Jack's understandable insubordination, Jack would feel the same way regarding Young, I love the way Jack has been written so far!


i suspect Oneill set Young up to grow a pair based on their conversation at the beginning. Hes molding Young into a better leader, and that means standing uo for yourselves. Particularly when ur a bazillion LY away and Young could permantly cement his greater authority over hear by smashing the box the stones go on.

I didn't think of that, but maybe...that's totally something Jack would do, he IS that awesome after all!


i actually would HATE to see O'Neill being in his current office while still being the maverick he was as a colonel... that would be completely unacceptable for arguably the most important military officer on the planet.

AGREED!

Ripple in Space
August 17th, 2013, 10:07 PM
The 'We've gone through the time I've allotted for this meeting' at the end was an incredible show of insubordination. O'Neill should have hauled him into his office and had more than a word.
Since S1 of SG-1, Jack was always the guy reigning in Daniel & Carter, pulling them away from pursuing treaties, technologies, and knowledge he knew were doomed situations. Early Captain Carter & Dr. Jackson would have died on almost every mission if not for Col. O'Neill dragging them back home after he saw the aliens were never going to cooperate. This was one of those, there was no way he could actually reprimand Col. Young.

You could easily imagine early SG-1 Carter telling early SG-1 Jack that Col. Young isn't acting ethically, and Jack replying he's not going to fight a losing battle.