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cubixrube
November 6th, 2009, 05:37 PM
That was priceless.

lordofseas
November 6th, 2009, 05:38 PM
Who lol'd at the part where Young and Telford had that "bump" from FTL to deep space?

*raises hand* Ahahaha!

Ghost22
November 6th, 2009, 05:39 PM
I thought it was hilarious. However its the only part i've really enjoyed. I do not want to watch a soap opera. This is ridiculous.

Pharaoh Atem
November 6th, 2009, 05:40 PM
Who lol'd at the part where Young and Telford had that "bump" from FTL to deep space?

*raises hand* Ahahaha!

couldn't wait 20 mins :P

arrakis44
November 6th, 2009, 05:40 PM
I did. Though to be honest I found the whole 'sex via intermediary' a tad disturbing. I mean really, that was Telford in that bed, *shudder*.

Mythophile
November 6th, 2009, 05:40 PM
Brings the term "screw you" a whole new meaning. Me thinks body swapping is going to be a bit less popular in the future.

jelgate
November 6th, 2009, 05:41 PM
I thought it was hilarious. However its the only part i've really enjoyed. I do not want to watch a soap opera. This is ridiculous.

Please notice the definition of soap opera

Replicator Todd
November 6th, 2009, 05:41 PM
I though it was hilarious. I'd remove the stones immediately!

arrakis44
November 6th, 2009, 05:50 PM
Are they trying to imply something with the comms situation. I know the glitches are being caused by shifts to and from FTL, but in the latest scene Telford looked a little disturbed after transitioning back. Is this an indication that there is something weird going on with the stones, or is it just the shock of transitioning back and forth unexpectedly?

Personally I like them to establish some fallibility with the use of the stones, it's just too convenient in its current form.

wargrafix
November 6th, 2009, 06:02 PM
Well now we know whats going on in the end. That dude is just creepy. Lets hope someone <mod snip> telford in the future.

Phantom6
November 6th, 2009, 06:03 PM
That was priceless.

Priceless?


Maybe.


But it's gonna cost him when Young finds out what a douche he is.

Skydiver
November 6th, 2009, 06:05 PM
FOlks

Let's keep this discussion polite and respectful. Keep the locker room crudity to yourselves please

Pat1487
November 6th, 2009, 06:05 PM
I was laughing when Telford jumped back into his body while having sex with Young's wife

His reaction was great
And I loved his line after being told jumping in or out of FTL disrupts the stones, he says "We have to get that fixed"

I was really hoping they would do something like that, but i never thought they would

Sonicbluemustang
November 6th, 2009, 06:07 PM
I did. Though to be honest I found the whole 'sex via intermediary' a tad disturbing. I mean really, that was Telford in that bed, *shudder*.

she really took to doin Telfords body and whats even more funny is Telford goin over there in the end. :)

AVFan
November 6th, 2009, 06:08 PM
Are they trying to imply something with the comms situation. I know the glitches are being caused by shifts to and from FTL, but in the latest scene Telford looked a little disturbed after transitioning back. Is this an indication that there is something weird going on with the stones, or is it just the shock of transitioning back and forth unexpectedly?

It was stated as clearly as possible that the transition between FTL and realspace caused disruption between the stones.

rsanchez
November 6th, 2009, 06:09 PM
Brings the term "screw you" a whole new meaning. Me thinks body swapping is going to be a bit less popular in the future.

Seriously, I really hope something happens and the communications stones no longer function, ever.

Pharaoh Atem
November 6th, 2009, 06:10 PM
Seriously, I really hope something happens and the communications stones no longer function, ever.

that would suck i like the calls back to earth. using the communication stones is the destiny's crew's version of a holldeck

Pat1487
November 6th, 2009, 06:12 PM
I hated the stones at first, and wanted to see them either not exist, or get destroyed
But this episode made them good imo

RJLCyberPunk
November 6th, 2009, 06:14 PM
Who lol'd at the part where Young and Telford had that "bump" from FTL to deep space?

*raises hand* Ahahaha!

:cameron:*raises hand as well*:cameron:

wargrafix
November 6th, 2009, 06:20 PM
lol, You KNOW Young instant thought was "Oh crap, telford.....damn you telford."

Arlan
November 6th, 2009, 06:27 PM
This disruption could be the beginning of the end for these stones. If enough "bumps" happen it could lead to the Destiny voluntarily cutting themselves off from Earth.

Pharaoh Atem
November 6th, 2009, 06:28 PM
This disruption could be the beginning of the end for these stones. If enough "bumps" happen it could lead to the Destiny voluntarily cutting themselves off from Earth.

i don't think there's out of range i think it was simply related to the FTL jumps

Arlan
November 6th, 2009, 06:31 PM
i don't think there's out of range i think it was simply related to the FTL jumps

Not saying it's a range thing, saying the crew could decide they've had enough interference from Earth and could use the "bumps" as the excuse not to turn on the stones.

Pharaoh Atem
November 6th, 2009, 06:33 PM
i think certain members of the crew may choose not to use the stones but i want it to be apart of the series i enjoy t

Replicator Todd
November 6th, 2009, 06:35 PM
I think the stones are becoming my favorite part of the series, I think it would be hilarious if in the future a communication's disruption happens during a firefight or something.

AVFan
November 6th, 2009, 06:36 PM
Not saying it's a range thing, saying the crew could decide they've had enough interference from Earth and could use the "bumps" as the excuse not to turn on the stones.

They really don't even have to have a reason, or explanation. If they just chucked the stones out an airlock Earth would have no idea what happened. The stones are their only form of communication.

Arlan
November 6th, 2009, 06:39 PM
They really don't even have to have a reason, or explanation. If they just chucked the stones out an airlock Earth would have no idea what happened. The stones are their only form of communication.

You still want to keep them around for the day they figure out how to gate back to Earth. It would be tragic for them to get a wormhole to Earth and then go splat on the Iris because the SGC didn't know they were coming. ;)

Pharaoh Atem
November 6th, 2009, 06:41 PM
You still want to keep them around for the day they figure out how to gate back to Earth. It would be tragic for them to get a wormhole to Earth and then go splat on the Iris because the SGC didn't know they were coming. ;)

there can use their radio's to contact the sgc or atlantis

Coronach
November 6th, 2009, 06:42 PM
I'm gonna make a mental note about people's reactions in this thread. ;)

The comparison will be quite stunning later on.

Mrja84
November 6th, 2009, 06:50 PM
there can use their radio's to contact the sgc or atlantis


No...that's kind of the reason why the stones are their only way to communicate. Signals from other galaxies tend to not get here...

AVFan
November 6th, 2009, 06:55 PM
No...that's kind of the reason why the stones are their only way to communicate. Signals from other galaxies tend to not get here...

Through the gate they will. It would be as if they were only 100-200 feet away, in realspace.

Jeff-B
November 6th, 2009, 07:04 PM
A bit milder surprise for the scientists hard at work on the terminals, then one of them finds himself dancing at a club with a hot chick and the other one finds herself really drunk and attacking another girl. "This is what they're doing with our bodies while we're gone!?"

Somehow reminds me of an old (and underrated, IMO) movie: "Cheech & Chong's Corsican Brothers"

RJLCyberPunk
November 6th, 2009, 07:06 PM
A bit milder surprise for the scientists hard at work on the terminals, then one of them finds himself dancing at a club with a hot chick and the other one finds herself really drunk and attacking another girl. "This is what they're doing with our bodies while we're gone!?"

:sam::cameron:LOLZ Yep!:cameron::sam:

Mrja84
November 6th, 2009, 07:06 PM
Through the gate they will. It would be as if they were only 100-200 feet away, in realspace.

But they can't use the gate to connect to Earth....so how will the signal get there?

Pat1487
November 6th, 2009, 07:08 PM
Some ground rules should be made for what you can and cant do in the other persons body

Number 1 should be "No sex"
Seems silly to have to state a rule like that though

_Famrir_
November 6th, 2009, 07:27 PM
what they dont know cant hurt them ^^

DigiFluid
November 6th, 2009, 07:29 PM
I howled. I'm glad the commercial break came not long after, so I had a couple minutes to compose myself :D

Cecil Brax
November 6th, 2009, 07:35 PM
Certainly,

That had to have been one of the Guidelines that Young had mentioned when he talked to Eli and Chloe about visiting their families. I would think that was probably a rule in place. We don't know for sure right now, but I would certainly hope that was one of the Guidelines.

Maybe in a future episode we'll see them mention something about the Guidelines that are in place for this. Seriously though, you shouldn't be able to use someone else's body for that.

- CB

Otarush
November 6th, 2009, 07:45 PM
That was priceless.

My whole family lol'd at that.

the fifth man
November 6th, 2009, 07:46 PM
what they dont know cant hurt them ^^

It can if an STD is involved.

Angela V
November 6th, 2009, 08:07 PM
I was surprised that Young would do something like that in some else's body. I know it was put in there as a laughing moment but Telford should've been pissed at what Young was doing with his body. And Young should be ashamed of himself.

DigiFluid
November 6th, 2009, 08:10 PM
I was surprised that Young would do something like that in some else's body. I know it was put in there as a laughing moment but Telford should've been pissed at what Young was doing with his body. And Young should be ashamed of himself.
I wouldn't say that at all. I'm not sure what makes you think Telford would be angry about someone else getting him laid, and I really don't understand what's wrong with Young trying to fix his marriage and getting a little....physical in the process.

Coronach
November 6th, 2009, 08:18 PM
I wouldn't say that at all. I'm not sure what makes you think Telford would be angry about someone else getting him laid, and I really don't understand what's wrong with Young trying to fix his marriage and getting a little....physical in the process.

It's strange, I think, that a lot of people don't have much of an adverse reaction to Young having sex with Telford's body. Not trying to project any opinions on anyone in particular, but I wonder if people don't care as much because he's a man?

For example, what variable of the scenario would have to be changed for people to get up-in-arms about how "wrong" it is? If you were here over the summer, then you already know one scenario that certainly outraged a decent portion of people :cool:

If a woman had taken over Telford's body, would that have been different? How about a man taking over a woman's body and doing the same thing? Etc...

I'm genuninely curious about this.

Also, my curiosity is mostly because I've noticed a surprising amount of people who found this "funny", or at the very least they didn't find it off-putting.

However, (*possible spoilers for upcoming SGU*)

a great many people were very angry over sides from the episode "Sabotage" several months back. Granted, we have no idea if anything happens, but it seemed to suggest Rush having sex with a woman that takes over Camille's body via the body-swap device.

Where do we draw this line, and why?

StarFighter
November 6th, 2009, 08:18 PM
What's the deal with the communication stones? Was it ever mentioned how they actually work? Even back when they were discovered by SG1?

Also these stones now use a box. Is that Earth design?

jelgate
November 6th, 2009, 08:22 PM
What's the deal with the communication stones? Was it ever mentioned how they actually work? Even back when they were discovered by SG1?

Also these stones now use a box. Is that Earth design?

Yes and yes. Both were seen in Avalon/Origin and Crusade respectively

Coronach
November 6th, 2009, 08:24 PM
What's the deal with the communication stones? Was it ever mentioned how they actually work? Even back when they were discovered by SG1?

It's been explained rather nebulously in past SG as well as in SGU so far. They have been shown to function in two different ways so far. For example, Daniel and Vala use them in a one-way manner in early SG1 S9, but it's mentioned that same episode that they are really meant to be used 2-way like in SGU.

Obviously, they work by swapping the consciousnesses of two people via simultaneous use of the stones on either end. Furthermore, they are instant communication over incredibly vast distances, so I think they use subspace.


Also these stones now use a box. Is that Earth design?

Yes, this is an Earth design :)

garhkal
November 6th, 2009, 08:57 PM
Are they trying to imply something with the comms situation. I know the glitches are being caused by shifts to and from FTL, but in the latest scene Telford looked a little disturbed after transitioning back. Is this an indication that there is something weird going on with the stones, or is it just the shock of transitioning back and forth unexpectedly?

Personally I like them to establish some fallibility with the use of the stones, it's just too convenient in its current form.

I am thinking it was more of the sudden shock of coming back into his own body.
BUT i do like how they have it when the ship cuts into and out of FTL. Shows that there is some sort of subspace cut there.


This disruption could be the beginning of the end for these stones. If enough "bumps" happen it could lead to the Destiny voluntarily cutting themselves off from Earth.

OR something happening and the terminals frying.


I was surprised that Young would do something like that in some else's body. I know it was put in there as a laughing moment but Telford should've been pissed at what Young was doing with his body. And Young should be ashamed of himself.
I was surprised he did that as well. I can see them kissing, but having sex. What is he supposed to think she feels having sex with another man?


For example, what variable of the scenario would have to be changed for people to get up-in-arms about how "wrong" it is? If you were here over the summer, then you already know one scenario that certainly outraged a decent portion of people

If a woman had taken over Telford's body, would that have been different? How about a man taking over a woman's body and doing the same thing? Etc...

I'm genuninely curious about this.

Also, my curiosity is mostly because I've noticed a surprising amount of people who found this "funny", or at the very least they didn't find it off-putting.

I feel the same either way. Sex in someone elses body to me IS and should be a no no.

Not just for the moral implications but from legal ones as well. A few threads ago we had a discussion about whether
If man a in person B's body has a kid is the dad A or B?
Also would it constitute adultery? And what should happen if the body you get into has an STD.

dahok
November 6th, 2009, 09:04 PM
I thought it was hilarious. However its the only part i've really enjoyed. I do not want to watch a soap opera. This is ridiculous.

Was it suppose to be shocking and controversial? I thought the whole Telford/Young swap and end scenes were the funniest on the show.

I guess laughter is a truly a defensive mechanism for me, because I too grow tired of Stargate Voyager 90210. It'd help if I actually cared about Chloe or Scott, but I don't.

Nemises
November 6th, 2009, 09:06 PM
just seconds before i was actually wondering what would happen if the connection was severed between the act. if i was telford i wouldn't want to go back that fast!

TwoLL's
November 6th, 2009, 10:02 PM
Definitely bad timing for a disruption. Bit hard keeping oneself in the mood, one thinks.

I also wonder if this was part of the reason for Young's going after Telford so hard at the end of the episode, as in things getting a little too personal between them with Young now knowing that Telford has quite intimate knowledge of his wife.

Captain Obvious
November 6th, 2009, 10:14 PM
I think Telford is going to use Young's abuse of his body as grounds for a rape charge and try to get Young relieved of command.

AVFan
November 6th, 2009, 10:35 PM
I think Telford is going to use Young's abuse of his body as grounds for a rape charge and try to get Young relieved of command.

Nah. I don't think so. The last scene proved that IMO. Telford is going to get back at him in a very personal way. He's not going to go through authorities.

AnnieS
November 6th, 2009, 11:13 PM
I didn't like Telford going to see Young's wife at the end. She will think it's Everett. No doubt he will imply that!!!

Inquisitor
November 7th, 2009, 12:07 AM
I was surprised that Young would do something like that in some else's body. I know it was put in there as a laughing moment but Telford should've been pissed at what Young was doing with his body. And Young should be ashamed of himself.

I'm more surprised that Emily, the person who didn't accept the stones and hated the idea would do such a thing like that. Bad story writing, only did it for the points/humour raised in this thread.

I don't like where all this is heading, if I wanted to watch The Bold and the Beautiful I would.

The episode itself was quite decent, but I don't want them to turn the stargate franchise into a drama genre rather than sci-fi. The idea makes me wish SG was dropped completely (apart from SGA and SG1 movies)

pipi
November 7th, 2009, 12:56 AM
Very very funny!!! I bet Telford haven't had that much fun in a long time that's why he was in shock or ectasy and wanted more in the end ;0 Dirty old man. He is kinda oldish.

curiositykitty
November 7th, 2009, 01:00 AM
coronach- you make many good points and im disappointed there isnt more discussion about the ramifications in using the stones in this manner. dont get me wrong, i laughed out loud during the swapping scenes because well they were funny, but i also think the stones pose many really juicy questions. these types of issues are what sci fi is really about- pushing and exploring the boundaries of humanity. i dont think the stones were used as they were in earth just for titillation or to be freaky on the writers' parts. id like to think they are trying to get us to think.

which part of us makes us us? our bodies, our "souls" or consciousness, or some combo? is it really wrong to use another person's body for extracurricular activities of this kind? or is it only wrong to do it without their knowing or their permission? does it matter if its a man or a woman this is occurring to? should it matter? when in this stone swapping does something become rape? was telford raped when young used his body to have sex with his wife? surely we would agree that young's wife may be raped if telford pretends to be young in that last scene, or do we not agree? also has anybody wondered at all if telford and young's wife maybe had something going on previously? perhaps thats why shes ok having sex with telford's body.

being new to stargate i dont have the previous shows and how they were written to reference, but i have hope that whoever's writing sgu now is doing so in a thoughtful manner and with serious intent. so far i havent seen anything to suggest otherwise really. frankly i think thus far sgu is really digging into what sci fi is all about and i hope to see more of the same in future eps.

any thoughts?

Jason
November 7th, 2009, 01:16 AM
I'm glad I'm not the only one that LOL'd over that! Geez. But still, Young should have been thinking of the moral implications there. Maybe some of the tension between he and Telford has to do with his wife?

kymeric
November 7th, 2009, 01:23 AM
Not saying it's a range thing, saying the crew could decide they've had enough interference from Earth and could use the "bumps" as the excuse not to turn on the stones.

That would be a terrible excuse and no one would ever believe it! Yeah lonely stranded people are near suicidal with greif but 'oh we cant use the one way to visit home cuz it could glitch for a few seconds if we use the FTL drive' Not buying it.


Alos, I think it means something for either how the stones work or how the FTL works that going in and out disrupts them. Maybe theyre travelling through the same medium that the stones communicate through, accounting for the vast distance Destiny has travelled?

Infinite-Possibilities
November 7th, 2009, 01:35 AM
Um what? I don't think it was supposed to be funny at all. Other than in the sense that it was the worst possible moment for a thing like that to transpire.

Madwelshboy
November 7th, 2009, 04:41 AM
It's strange, I think, that a lot of people don't have much of an adverse reaction to Young having sex with Telford's body. Not trying to project any opinions on anyone in particular, but I wonder if people don't care as much because he's a man?

For example, what variable of the scenario would have to be changed for people to get up-in-arms about how "wrong" it is? If you were here over the summer, then you already know one scenario that certainly outraged a decent portion of people :cool:

If a woman had taken over Telford's body, would that have been different? How about a man taking over a woman's body and doing the same thing? Etc...

I'm genuninely curious about this.

Also, my curiosity is mostly because I've noticed a surprising amount of people who found this "funny", or at the very least they didn't find it off-putting.

However, (*possible spoilers for upcoming SGU*)

a great many people were very angry over sides from the episode "Sabotage" several months back. Granted, we have no idea if anything happens, but it seemed to suggest Rush having sex with a woman that takes over Camille's body via the body-swap device.

Where do we draw this line, and why?

As some pointed out in another thread, there are lots of lot double standards between men and women when it comes to sex. Personally IMO, this situation and the one that was detailed previously, regardless of gender/sexuality are one and the same.


Um what? I don't think it was supposed to be funny at all. Other than in the sense that it was the worst possible moment for a thing like that to transpire.

Agreed

segaxgames
November 7th, 2009, 05:07 AM
my favorite part of the entire episode was the end when Telford pretended to be Young and (presumably) DID HIS WIFE..

OMG THE STONES ARE THE BEST PART OF SGU

Spimman
November 7th, 2009, 05:08 AM
You think that is what he was going to do at the end?

wargrafix
November 7th, 2009, 05:09 AM
Yep. Because he is a ******* like that.

wargrafix
November 7th, 2009, 05:13 AM
did you see his look?

Orion Antreas
November 7th, 2009, 05:15 AM
did you see his look?

Yes, I saw sinister revenge. But there are a variety of ways to achieve that besides having sex with your nemesis' wife.

SerpentGuard
November 7th, 2009, 05:17 AM
yeah that last bit was just creepy.

segaxgames
November 7th, 2009, 05:21 AM
yeah that last bit was just creepy.

indeed.... it's almost like rape.

Lightning Ducj
November 7th, 2009, 05:29 AM
I'm giving Telford the benefit of the doubt for being an honorable man. I don't think he was going to try to have sex with Young's wife, I assumed at the time that he was going to have a 'fess up' conversation with her.

Keep in mind that in places where Telford has rubbed the Destiny crew, and the audience, the wrong way it's been in situations where he has been attempting to get something done on the Destiny that he sees as being needed for the safety and the eventual return of the crew. We may not like it because of our growing sympathy for Young, Rush, Scott, Greer, etc... but he's pretty much been within his bounds as a military Colonel. I may not *like* the way he carries out his duties, but I can't say it's because he is a bad person.

So I don't see any reason yet why he would seek revenge on Young or seek to take advantage of the situation with Emily

Pharaoh Atem
November 7th, 2009, 06:37 AM
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=71066 already a thread about this :)

missmobius
November 7th, 2009, 06:41 AM
I'm giving Telford the benefit of the doubt for being an honorable man. I don't think he was going to try to have sex with Young's wife, I assumed at the time that he was going to have a 'fess up' conversation with her.

Keep in mind that in places where Telford has rubbed the Destiny crew, and the audience, the wrong way it's been in situations where he has been attempting to get something done on the Destiny that he sees as being needed for the safety and the eventual return of the crew. We may not like it because of our growing sympathy for Young, Rush, Scott, Greer, etc... but he's pretty much been within his bounds as a military Colonel. I may not *like* the way he carries out his duties, but I can't say it's because he is a bad person.

So I don't see any reason yet why he would seek revenge on Young or seek to take advantage of the situation with Emily

Imagine if you will:

Telford is there to yell at Young's X because Telford realised she had sex with Young (during the stone exchange), and Telford, who has been her lover for a while now is angry with her.

Okay it's a possibility, so soap operish though LOL. Someone beam me out of here LMAO.

Spimman
November 7th, 2009, 06:42 AM
I'm wondering if he was going to tell her what happened, and maybe tell her that Young has no intention of coming home.

missmobius
November 7th, 2009, 06:42 AM
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=71066 already a thread about this :)

Like your SGU banner :)

aream2000
November 7th, 2009, 06:43 AM
is it me or does sgu have alot more sex related scenes than sg-1 and atlantis

Pharaoh Atem
November 7th, 2009, 06:44 AM
is it me or does sgu have alot more sex related scenes than sg-1 and atlantis

it was said from the beginning it

missmobius
November 7th, 2009, 06:47 AM
is it me or does sgu have alot more sex related scenes than sg-1 and atlantis

na, you're imagining it all, LOL, SG1 was all about sex, didn't you know that LOL

just kidding, I miss SG1, even more so now that we're into SGUep:7
nothing but a big dark soap opera, next to no SciFi at all.

aream2000
November 7th, 2009, 06:58 AM
what i mean is sg1 for the most part was true scifi where as sgu is more like something you would see on mtv

jelgate
November 7th, 2009, 07:00 AM
what i mean is sg1 for the most part was true scifi where as sgu is more like something you would see on mtv

I'm sorry. I have seen to lose me memo. How do we define true scifi?

Jeff-B
November 7th, 2009, 07:09 AM
I still thing that particular scene was very funny, but it does bring up a moral quandary. Really trying to find a way to phrase this without reopening a certain can of worms...

Chloe was really drunk. What if her old boyfriend had taken advantage of her and got the scientists body pregnant?

They have arranged for everybody to be able to visit their families back on Earth using other bodies, and I'm sure for a good number of them their family includes a husband/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend. This issue was bound to come up sooner or later, and I liked how they dealt with it using a main character.

aream2000
November 7th, 2009, 07:12 AM
well the two most well known series that i consider true scifi is star trek: tng and sg-1

jelgate
November 7th, 2009, 07:14 AM
That doesn't give much qualitve indication of true scifi. The point I'm trying to get their is no such thing as true scifi. Its just people different standards

Maxum
November 7th, 2009, 07:45 AM
I stated in another thread that my feelings on this subject is that anyone who agrees to the swap agrees to whatever might happen in that body. If that is too dicey a prospect, then don't agree to the body swap. Nobody is putting a gun to their heads to be the recipient.

The same would be true for whether it's a man or a woman. If a woman agrees to be a body swap recipient for Chloe, she risks that Chloe might use the body to see "her husband" or "boyfriend." I'm going to assume that agreements need to be made about taking precautions and of course no drug use, etc., but I can't imagine that people aboard the Destiny can interact with their loved ones, but you cannot touch them in anyway.

I agree that I'm more disturbed about Emily's reaction. I think Young and Telford, as I stated, gave up their rights to their bodies during the swap. However, Emily is very much aware that this body is not her husband, although the personality is certainly Everettt's. I can understand to a certain degree that Young and Emily gave into their feelings considering that they have been estranged for a long period of time (I think). Were they suppose to say "I really want to be with you, but you'll have to wait a couple years until we can find a way home?" That's why I think some kind of agreement had to have been made between the body swappers. I know I wouldn't agree to be a body swapper recipient without asking these types of questions.

This body swapping has been done before, both on Star Trek and on SG-1. Granted on SG-1, it was without consent between Daniel and Vala, but what happened to them was accidental. I would think that by the time the SGU crew were using them, certain people agreed to be the vessel of one of the Destiny crew and agreed to give up all control during that swap.

ttsec
November 7th, 2009, 08:32 AM
i think thus far sgu is really digging into what sci fi is all about

Sorry, you do not know what is Sci-Fi. Sci-Fi is not about humanity, it is about science, and there need not even be humans involved. I could be a show about talking dogs with fictional technology/science, and it would be sci-fi. Furthermore, Sci-Fi does not need to be about pushing boundaries, as long as it is fictional science and/or technology, for example, steampunk could be considered a derivative of Sci-Fi.

Alarria
November 7th, 2009, 08:49 AM
I thought it was hilarious. However its the only part i've really enjoyed. I do not want to watch a soap opera. This is ridiculous.

Agreed. Watching 15 seasons of Stargate and that was the FIRST time an episode has been so soap opera-ish and annoying that I actually fast forwarded through more than half of it.

Maxum
November 7th, 2009, 09:44 AM
Sorry, you do not know what is Sci-Fi. Sci-Fi is not about humanity, it is about science, and there need not even be humans involved. I could be a show about talking dogs with fictional technology/science, and it would be sci-fi. Furthermore, Sci-Fi does not need to be about pushing boundaries, as long as it is fictional science and/or technology, for example, steampunk could be considered a derivative of Sci-Fi.

I don't think you know what Sci Fi means. What shows do you watch that you think Sci Fi is not about humanity? SCIENCE does not need humans involved, but Science Fiction has always been about how humanity deals with science. From Buck Rogers to Star Trek to Star Wars to Close Encounters of the Third Kind to every science fiction movie and television series that followed.

The reason all those movies and television shows endure is because it pushes the boundaries and explores man's role in the realm of science.

ttsec
November 7th, 2009, 09:51 AM
Oh you meant successful Sci-Fi. Well, successful sci-fi isn' the only scifi. There are plenty of Sci-Fi that is not successful, doesn't involve humans (Sci-Fi book for kids featuring talking animals, I know because I read them when I was little), and doesn't have to be "pushing the boundaries" (although boundaries is always relative).

thekillman
November 7th, 2009, 10:23 AM
science fiction is about a setting with physics and phenomena which are, theoretically, possible. when it gets crazy (talking animals) then its Fantasy.

ttsec
November 7th, 2009, 10:49 AM
science fiction is about a setting with physics and phenomena which are, theoretically, possible. when it gets crazy (talking animals) then its Fantasy.

Talking animals are scientifically theoretically possible. That is, if you consider biology a science, which most people do. Nothing in biology says that langauge-capable species all have to be humanoid, human-like, or ape-family-related.

Maddog316
November 7th, 2009, 11:08 AM
I wanna see Young Confront Telford about it.

segaxgames
November 7th, 2009, 02:04 PM
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=71066 already a thread about this :)

yeah, but I thought my title was WAY catchier. lol

KEK
November 7th, 2009, 09:10 PM
Sorry, you do not know what is Sci-Fi. Sci-Fi is not about humanity, it is about science, and there need not even be humans involved. I could be a show about talking dogs with fictional technology/science, and it would be sci-fi. Furthermore, Sci-Fi does not need to be about pushing boundaries, as long as it is fictional science and/or technology, for example, steampunk could be considered a derivative of Sci-Fi.

Actually by the sounds of things you're the one that doesn't know what scifi is. Science Fiction has ALWAYS been about humanity, the science involved is just a tool used to tell stories that writers otherwise wouldn't be able to, without people, scifi is pointless.

coldpower27
November 7th, 2009, 09:13 PM
There is simply too much sex in this sci fi Series, is all I can say for now.

jdog
November 7th, 2009, 09:48 PM
Is it me or did Telford look a bit too disturbed, like he was violated, when the bodies got switched?

I think most guys would have kinda liked it.

I'm starting to wonder if maybe hes gay and cant tell anyone cause of the miltary thing and thats why he showed up at mrs youngs door.

I assumed at first he was gonna mess around with her and screw with col. youngs head but now im wondering if its something else.

if he is THAT is a great plot twist.

Cyberfrog
November 7th, 2009, 09:48 PM
It was slightly disturbing, but I admit I "lol'd".

As for Telford the Creep in the end, I thought of two possibilities:

- He intends to make some kind of awkward apology.
- Young's wife is having an affair with him. I wouldn't be thrilled if this was true, but on the "plus" side - she's already familiar with both personality and body, and so this might sort of answer the "how could she...!" question.

Lightning Ducj
November 7th, 2009, 09:52 PM
Is it me or did Telford look a bit too disturbed, like he was violated, when the bodies got switched?


Well is was jarring to be suddenly switched like that regardless of where you end up



I think most guys would have kinda liked it.

I'm starting to wonder if maybe hes gay and cant tell anyone cause of the miltary thing and thats why he showed up at mrs youngs door.


Maybe he's married?


I assumed at first he was gonna mess around with her and screw with col. youngs head but now im wondering if its something else.

if he is THAT is a great plot twist.

I'm assuming that Telford is a decent man and that he needs to have a chat with Emily about what happened.

jdog
November 7th, 2009, 09:59 PM
perhaps but i hope there is more drama to it. Would be interesting. He looked like he was in a cold sweat when she answered the door.

I think exploring the issues of homosexualty, intimacy, violation with body swapping with the issues of dont ask dont tell would be an interesting avenue to explore.

Although I dont know if stargate would go that far, BSG maybe would have but might be too edgy for the stargate world, they already introduced sex which surprised me, im sure they will push the boundries slowly.

Vapor
November 7th, 2009, 10:01 PM
Oh you meant successful Sci-Fi. Well, successful sci-fi isn' the only scifi. There are plenty of Sci-Fi that is not successful, doesn't involve humans (Sci-Fi book for kids featuring talking animals, I know because I read them when I was little), and doesn't have to be "pushing the boundaries" (although boundaries is always relative).

It's interesting you bring up talking animals as an example of science-fiction not being about humanity. When the very idea of animals talking is a way of approaching issues of human interest from a different perspective. It's sometimes called anthropomorphism.

Whether the main character is a human, or a feline that talks, it's still ultimately about human interests. The same can be said for aliens we've never seen before.

As soon as you have a character faced with a problem, you've essentially already introduced an element of humanity into it. Whether it be a moral, ethical, political, scientific, or personal problem, it's one that many of us as humans have faced, or are concerned about. It's not a story at all without some basic conflict.

Science-fiction is genre that encompasses many different kinds of stories. The only constant is speculative science and how it might affect us.

In this case, SGU, BSG, ST, "The Time-Traveler's Wife," and "Alien" are all science-fiction, whether any of us wishes to accept it or not. SGU just happens to be a sci-fi drama.

Replicator Todd
November 7th, 2009, 10:02 PM
I would feel violated, especially if someone else was using my body.

Nemises
November 7th, 2009, 10:09 PM
SGU doesn't seem scifi when compared to SG1 and SGA.

haloplayer
November 7th, 2009, 10:38 PM
You guys think its funny for Young and his ex-wife to be raping Telford's body?

LAME

FallenAngelII
November 7th, 2009, 10:44 PM
Yes, because only gay people would dislike being raped. This is why men who are raped by women often do not report it and the few who do often get ridiculed by idiots who think men cannot be raped by women (unless they are gay).

Vapor
November 7th, 2009, 11:06 PM
SGU doesn't seem scifi when compared to SG1 and SGA.

That's like saying it doesn't seem like Sunday morning because it's 4 AM. It might be dark outside and you might stay up late and not be asleep yet, but that doesn't negate the unchangeable fact that it's Sunday morning.

When most people say "it's not sci-fi," what they really seem to be saying is "it's more drama than I want it to be." It would be great if more people acknowledged that there is a significant difference between those two statements.

Radahldo
November 7th, 2009, 11:08 PM
Why are so many mentioning his orientation? Is there some spoiler to indicates to that? I thought there were no gay males, just Wray?

Replicator Todd
November 7th, 2009, 11:16 PM
I highly doubt Telford is gay, "some" might assume so because Telford looked too disturbed. I would think most people, regardless of their sexual preferences, would feel violated of such a thing.

Nightfighter89
November 7th, 2009, 11:20 PM
I can't say I would be terribly disturbed, but I would certainly be shocked to all hell and it would take a moment to process.

That said, at the end of the episode it seemed to me that he might try to impersonate Young to sleep with his wife more. I don't really see how he could pull it off, but Telford strikes me as a real prick. I could see him doing something as sleazy.

Radahldo
November 7th, 2009, 11:22 PM
While I am not saying that this the sentiment by most forum-users, but it still is disconcerting that the only reason some can envision for Telford seeming incredulous is homosexuality.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
November 7th, 2009, 11:22 PM
i think he was pissed cause he thought he may not be able to command.

Ouroboros
November 7th, 2009, 11:38 PM
Is it me or did Telford look a bit too disturbed, like he was violated, when the bodies got switched?

I think most guys would have kinda liked it.

I'm starting to wonder if maybe hes gay and cant tell anyone cause of the miltary thing and thats why he showed up at mrs youngs door.

I assumed at first he was gonna mess around with her and screw with col. youngs head but now im wondering if its something else.

if he is THAT is a great plot twist.

He looked confused as hell, and If I'd been him I would have rubbed icy hot all over my "special area" before I disconnected the stones and left Young a note saying the next time he does that kind of **** with my body he'll come back to find something of his own missing. Something he will miss.

The most messed up part of it though is that Young's wife was totally down with it all. It's one thing to have a conversation with a loved one that happens to be inhabiting someone else's body at the time, but this is taking things rather a bit further on the weird scale than that.

I think his plan to nail Young's wife while pretending to be him is probably the perfect revenge though, if that is indeed his plan. I hope he brags about it a lot to Young too, and points out the fact that technically he's already done it, and that Young himself made it possible with his abusive use of Telford's body.

Bookwyrm
November 7th, 2009, 11:58 PM
I wonder if people would find it as funny if someone roofied Chloe or TJ and proceeded to have sex with them while they were out of it? Really, what's the difference between that and what Young did to Telford? For all we and Young know, Telford is married or gay or abstains from sex for religious reasons. He could have an STD or Emily might have one. What happens if Emily somehow gets pregnant? Who's child is it then? Is that why Young insisted on personal visits being continued, so he can grab a new body every week to go have a conjugal visit in?

I also have a problem with Chloe getting the female scientist's body drunk. Others have pointed out that she put the body in danger by doing so. If Eli hadn't have been there, there's no telling what might have happened. Chloe could have stumbled out in front of a car and got the body killed or been raped or beat up by a mugger or any number of things. Telford mistreating Young's body was presented as being wrong earlier in the season, why is what Young and Chloe did with the borrowed bodies okay? It really bothers me that the writers don't seem to think that any of this is wrong and that it's being written off as "funny".

MattSilver 3k
November 8th, 2009, 12:33 AM
Well, Word of God (Joseph Malozzi's blog entry for today) vouches for Young's use of Telford's body as such:

You assume it was without his consent. Although nothing was said either way, it seems most unlikely that someone who was giving up their body for a conjugal visit wouldnt consider this to be a possibility.

Yeah, that sounds about what I was thinking. Telford volunteers for Young to take over, well aware that stuff could happen... Same with Chloe using the other chick...

akren
November 8th, 2009, 01:33 AM
I wonder if people would find it as funny if someone roofied Chloe or TJ and proceeded to have sex with them while they were out of it? Really, what's the difference between that and what Young did to Telford? For all we and Young know, Telford is married or gay or abstains from sex for religious reasons. He could have an STD or Emily might have one. What happens if Emily somehow gets pregnant? Who's child is it then? Is that why Young insisted on personal visits being continued, so he can grab a new body every week to go have a conjugal visit in?

I also have a problem with Chloe getting the female scientist's body drunk. Others have pointed out that she put the body in danger by doing so. If Eli hadn't have been there, there's no telling what might have happened. Chloe could have stumbled out in front of a car and got the body killed or been raped or beat up by a mugger or any number of things. Telford mistreating Young's body was presented as being wrong earlier in the season, why is what Young and Chloe did with the borrowed bodies okay? It really bothers me that the writers don't seem to think that any of this is wrong and that it's being written off as "funny".

Whilst some of it may look or be passed off as funny, I don't think it's meant to be; nor do I personally take it as such. I was shocked, disgusted & stunned (to say the least) about how the LRC stones were used in this episode. It also made me think & has compelled me to keep watching the show to see how the inventible ensuing drama unfolds & how the characters will justify their actions when the crap hits the fan.

The fact that the use of the LRC stones being used in such a manner as presented in 'Earth' really brings to light the ethical & moral issues surrounding their use; & I believe that we will start seeing the broader implications & fall out of what happened later on in the series.

Infinite-Possibilities
November 8th, 2009, 03:15 AM
Well, Word of God (Joseph Malozzi's blog entry for today) vouches for Young's use of Telford's body as such:


Yeah, that sounds about what I was thinking. Telford volunteers for Young to take over, well aware that stuff could happen... Same with Chloe using the other chick...

I don't think it was an unreasonable assumption to imagine that no consent was given when no mention of it being given was onscreen.

Eternal Density
November 8th, 2009, 04:10 AM
There's a lot of details they don't show onscreen, but in this case the proceedures and rules and agreements involved in bodyswapping would be a good thing to know.
I suppose the deal might be that so long as the body is returned in the condition it was 'found' in, with no physical damage or legal issues and such, anything goes. So Telford may well have known what Young might use his body for, but certainly never expected to suddenly experience it himself. His reaction may have been less "how could he do this with my body?" and more "i'm not supposed to be here!"

Infinite-Possibilities
November 8th, 2009, 04:17 AM
That is possible I suppose. But really? It actually seems at least as reasonable that the rules are "no screwing around in other people's bodies." It is possible that the SGC just figured the crew of the Destiny would be able to restrain themselves from being reckless with bodies that weren't their own and so never felt he need to cover specific rules for conjugal visits. Without knowing which one I don't think it was a good idea just to figure the audience would know which one was supposed to be true. If the writers intended there not to be an issue with consent, then they were far too unclear about that, I think.

Encoder
November 8th, 2009, 04:26 AM
Who lol'd at the part where Young and Telford had that "bump" from FTL to deep space?

*raises hand* Ahahaha!

Mine was when Eli jumps back and he's back in his hotel room all by himself lol!

:sheppard:

Sonicbluemustang
November 8th, 2009, 04:38 AM
After mulling over this I agree with Infinite. The writers should have slowed the stone story line down and layed out some base rules which would (have been) easy to do. Too much soap imo.

Jeff-B
November 8th, 2009, 06:03 AM
I think Telford's reaction was more because it was totally unexpected. He might have been slightly less shocked if he had initiated the switch-back, because then he would have been more braced for the sudden change in situation. Until that point, nobody knew the stones were prone to glitches like that. One minute, they had just dropped out of FTL, Telford was running around barking orders getting everyone going on the plan, then suddenly in less than the blink of an eye, he finds himself in the middle of sex with Young's wife. Whether the change was good, bad, or indifferent, it was a complete shock that it happened so suddenly and unexpectedly.

garhkal
November 8th, 2009, 10:10 AM
coronach- you make many good points and im disappointed there isnt more discussion about the ramifications in using the stones in this manner. dont get me wrong, i laughed out loud during the swapping scenes because well they were funny, but i also think the stones pose many really juicy questions. these types of issues are what sci fi is really about- pushing and exploring the boundaries of humanity. i dont think the stones were used as they were in earth just for titillation or to be freaky on the writers' parts. id like to think they are trying to get us to think.

which part of us makes us us? our bodies, our "souls" or consciousness, or some combo? is it really wrong to use another person's body for extracurricular activities of this kind? or is it only wrong to do it without their knowing or their permission? does it matter if its a man or a woman this is occurring to? should it matter? when in this stone swapping does something become rape? was telford raped when young used his body to have sex with his wife? surely we would agree that young's wife may be raped if telford pretends to be young in that last scene, or do we not agree? also has anybody wondered at all if telford and young's wife maybe had something going on previously? perhaps thats why shes ok having sex with telford's body.

being new to stargate i dont have the previous shows and how they were written to reference, but i have hope that whoever's writing sgu now is doing so in a thoughtful manner and with serious intent. so far i havent seen anything to suggest otherwise really. frankly i think thus far sgu is really digging into what sci fi is all about and i hope to see more of the same in future eps.

any thoughts?

I am not sure if getting sex via lying about who you are constitutes rape though. Rape is defined as having sex without consent. BUT if she gives it can her not knowing about the 'swap' issue be considered false consent?

garhkal
November 8th, 2009, 10:28 AM
I'm giving Telford the benefit of the doubt for being an honorable man. I don't think he was going to try to have sex with Young's wife, I assumed at the time that he was going to have a 'fess up' conversation with her.

Keep in mind that in places where Telford has rubbed the Destiny crew, and the audience, the wrong way it's been in situations where he has been attempting to get something done on the Destiny that he sees as being needed for the safety and the eventual return of the crew. We may not like it because of our growing sympathy for Young, Rush, Scott, Greer, etc... but he's pretty much been within his bounds as a military Colonel. I may not *like* the way he carries out his duties, but I can't say it's because he is a bad person.

So I don't see any reason yet why he would seek revenge on Young or seek to take advantage of the situation with Emily

BUT htey do seem to be placing Telford up to be a bad guy much like Col mayborne was for a long time.


Chloe was really drunk. What if her old boyfriend had taken advantage of her and got the scientists body pregnant?


That brings up 2 seperate sets of issues Jeff.
One is the whole responsibility factor. IS the mind of the person who was in the other's body responsible for the resultant kid, or is the one who's body is used.
Then who has "ownership" ie rights?
What about if said pregnancy is cause for a divorce? Who is responsible in that light? What of child support?
Charges for adultery (the mil DOES have rules against it on the books)


I stated in another thread that my feelings on this subject is that anyone who agrees to the swap agrees to whatever might happen in that body. If that is too dicey a prospect, then don't agree to the body swap. Nobody is putting a gun to their heads to be the recipient.

That is not entirely true. THey are military and can be ordered to do it.


Maybe he's married?

Very true. I know if i was married and i found myself in bed shagging another mans wife it would make me feel dirty. Heck what of his wife if he is? Does she now have grounds to divorce him for adultery?


Yes, because only gay people would dislike being raped. This is why men who are raped by women often do not report it and the few who do often get ridiculed by idiots who think men cannot be raped by women (unless they are gay).

Male rape is a big issue. ANd while i do think there are some guys who secretly like it, saying they don't report it cause they are not gay is doing a major dis-service to a big crime.


There's a lot of details they don't show onscreen, but in this case the proceedures and rules and agreements involved in bodyswapping would be a good thing to know.

Agreed. Even if it was only a "remember what you signed about what you can do" little statement before young got out of the car and went to Emily's house... THAT would have at least showed they did address it.

Coronach
November 8th, 2009, 10:34 AM
There's a lot of details they don't show onscreen, but in this case the proceedures and rules and agreements involved in bodyswapping would be a good thing to know.

I totally agree here. In Joseph Mallozzi's most recent blog entry, he answers several questions regarding how he thinks things are. As he is one of the writers who spins plotlines, I'd imagine this is a sentiment shared among the rest of the writers:


IJH writes: What about what Young and his wife did to Telford? They used his body for sex without his consent.

Answer: You assume it was without his consent. Although nothing was said either way, it seems most unlikely that someone who was giving up their body for a conjugal visit wouldnt consider this to be a possibility.

and



DP writes: You already know Im clawing my eyes out of my skull. Im going to assume Telford and Young had an understanding or the show falls apart for me.

Answer: As I said, although there is no indication given, logic dictates that Telford would know something like that could happen (since Young IS returning for a conjugal visit) so its fair to assume he signed off permission.

Blog Entry (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/november-7-2009-my-decision-made-h1n1-ganache-patisserie-chocoatl-no-more-the-return-of-the-mailbag/)

So yeah, I'd be willing to accept this...but I'm hoping that this is a hint that these things will actually be addressed on-screen in the future, as I think it's definitely warranted in this case :cool:

jdog
November 8th, 2009, 11:43 AM
While I am not saying that this the sentiment by most forum-users, but it still is disconcerting that the only reason some can envision for Telford seeming incredulous is homosexuality.


I never said THE ONLY REASON, the fact you would assume that is disconcerting in itself.

I just think it would be a possiblity and a good plot twist. THAT I did say.

Also incredulous is a big word, you sure you used it right 8).

Not the word i'd use to describe he reaction.

LoneStar1836
November 8th, 2009, 12:02 PM
DP writes: You already know Im clawing my eyes out of my skull. Im going to assume Telford and Young had an understanding or the show falls apart for me.

Answer: As I said, although there is no indication given, logic dictates that Telford would know something like that could happen (since Young IS returning for a conjugal visit) so its fair to assume he signed off permission.When the hell did Young communicate that to anybody? "Hey all. On my next visit, I'm planning on having sex with my wife. Who wants to volunteer their body?" *Telford jumps up and down* "Pick me. Pick me."

Yeah, yeah it happened in the background if you want to excuse it away. Well I don't care. I find this whole use of the stones to create drama to be crappy anyway.

JM can say whatever he wants on his blog, but it is after the fact and not explicitly stated on the show so it is most definitely up for debate...even if it is ever addressed.

Forget signing off to have their bodies abused, why the *bleep* is the SGC/Homeworld Security allowing these people off base to begin with? And without so much as an escort. Does no one care about security? I can see the military being less than considerate when it comes to the welfare of these people's bodies, but being so nonchalant about security and the security risk these people pose as well as the security risk of telling loved ones/friends about what's going on considering this is supposed to be a highly classified program...even though they don't really act like it by allowing this nonsense to go on.


Anyway, to the OP, dang straight I had a good laugh at Telford's expense. It was funny, but what Young was doing was creepy and wrong. I don't care if Telford said "yeah, go ahead and have sex using my body." What about Young's wife and the weird situation it puts her in, and yet he still has sex with her. Creepy..... Course I think she is sleeping with Telford anyway which is why she apparently didn't have a problem having sex with a "stranger's" body, but Young wouldn't know this.

Eternal Density
November 8th, 2009, 02:27 PM
Perhaps the writers hoped we would be smart enough to get it without being told?

LoneStar1836
November 8th, 2009, 02:40 PM
Perhaps the writers hoped we would be smart enough to get it without being told?
I don't need the writers telling me that Telford and crew are having to be willing to accept the fact that they are giving up control of their bodies. :) That's a given, but the writers must think I'm practically brain dead if they expect me to believe that the SGC is giving them such free reign to do practically whatever they please...off base. Thus compromising the security and secrecy of the project. That's what's unrealistic, imo.

Arga
November 8th, 2009, 02:46 PM
FOlks

Let's keep this discussion polite and respectful. Keep the locker room crudity to yourselves please

I'll be sarcastic:

but since they changed the show's standards compared to the old Stargate series, (showing sex scenes, and being "more mature" and "dark" and whatever cool new hype thing), why can't the forum also change their standards?

:rolleyes:

Arga
November 8th, 2009, 02:52 PM
I read many opinions saying that Telford returning to her house at the end of the episode is a good revenge towards Young.
Why is Young involved in this thinking? I think Telford simply wants to take advantage of the situation, for himself, not to specifically harm Young.

LoneStar1836
November 8th, 2009, 03:01 PM
I read many opinions saying that Telford returning to her house at the end of the episode is a good revenge towards Young.
Why is Young involved in this thinking? I think Telford simply wants to take advantage of the situation, for himself, not to specifically harm Young.If either of those is the case, then according to JM, Telford has cemented his place on this show as he will be going nowhere any time soon because, imo, that will make Telford one of the most despised characters in the entire Stargate universe.

Course I like the Telford character so I hope he isn't going anywhere any time soon, but that would make him utterly despicable...down there with Lucius from SGA. I do not think the writers will do that to the character, and I hope they don't.

jdog
November 8th, 2009, 03:39 PM
As far as the leway they are giving the body swapping i bet they just never figured these issues would happening, its not like any of this was preplanned.

You have to remember these people are isolated billions of light years away, being pushed psycologically beyong measure, id be willing to bet a little bit of understanding due to the emotinal duress, but rules will have to be set of what you can and cant do eventually.

Eternal Density
November 8th, 2009, 03:43 PM
So long as Telford doesn't make pretending to be women's husbands in his body a regular habit... :S

jwgrlrrajn
November 8th, 2009, 03:58 PM
It was kind of funny, but it also brings up a reason why these stones should be used more responsibly or not at all.

Imagine if someone switched, let's say, McKay with someone else. The person who switched with him loves lemon meringue pie and has not been able to have it for some time. The person in McKay's body eats the pie, and since McKay is deathly allergic to citrus, the two of them die due to the switched person's irresponsibility.

Now the other problem is if someone used the Earth body for *ahem* reproductive purposes. Imagine the possible problems between married couples it could cause if they caught someone who looked exactly like their spouse going after some other person for sex. Imagine the possibility of STDs. Imagine if a gay/lesbian person uses a straight person's body for same gender sex (or vice-versa), and the Destiny drops out of FTL during the intercourse. I don't know about you, but I'd be scarred for life.

Also there's the problem of a Destiny crew member using an Earth body and getting drunk while using it. The person on the other end is going to end up with a nasty hangover without it even being his/her fault.

In my opinion, they should kill the comm stones and bring back the Goa'uld long range communication devices from Within the Serpent's Grasp.

Alder
November 8th, 2009, 03:58 PM
I find the entries from the blog interesting but odd...it's not unusual to see posts here reminding us that as active fans, we're only a tiny percentage of the viewers. The vast majority of folk who watch the show, regularly or sporadically, will never see those remarks, they have to rely on what they see on-screen.

For example - thinking of it as a first time viewer - which I've been trying to do the last few episodes, since the style is so different - surely all we've seen has been Young's wife saying she never wanted to see him again, then him banging on the door trying to get her to talk to him. That doesn't exactly scream 'conjugal visit' to me. Then it jumps to him having sex with her in another man's body.

Even here on the forum people are looking at it in two different ways - "That behaviour is unacceptable, therefore he must've had permission," and "There's no suggestion he had permission, that behaviour is unacceptable!" As far as the information from the show is concerned, either view is possible. The reason people are asking is that it isn't that clear. Relying on folk to plug the gaps with information from your blog seems like lazy writing to me.

jdog
November 8th, 2009, 04:04 PM
Telford never asked permission to hijack Youngs decision and command.

How is that any different? Yes hes following orders but hes still using youngs body against his wishes. And hes done it before. I dont see why people are so quick to jump on young when its gone both ways.

Lightning Ducj
November 8th, 2009, 04:17 PM
Relying on folk to plug the gaps with information from your blog seems like lazy writing to me.

I think it's lazy viewing.

Ok, in Air, Greer as in the brig and a lot of people are saying he has 'anger management issues'. Well after a few episodes later it turns out Greer is pretty cool and his reason for being in the brig was 'putting down' Telford. (physically or verbally?). The Stargate is barely cold before some people are complaining they don't use the LRCs to send experts to Destiny. Well, come Earth it seems that there were experts from earth working on the problem, but it was too early to send people to Destiny directly before they had a plan to execute.

I guess what I'm saying is that people are used to everything that matters being on the screen. SG:U is taking a tactk that lot is going on but we only see a window into it.. and sometimes we don't get all the answers or all the information until much later. I think therefore a lot of people are jumping to conclusions without enough information based on assuming that what they see on the screen is all that's happening...or that the writers/directors are going to show everything up front. So rather than letting the story unfold and let the gaps fill in over time, people end up complaining over what they perceive as a problem at the moment which is really only incomplete information.

Eternal Density
November 8th, 2009, 08:13 PM
In my opinion, they should kill the comm stones and bring back the Goa'uld long range communication devices from Within the Serpent's Grasp.I think they use subspace signals (rather than whatever quantum magic the stones use) so they would be very much out of range.

Encoder
November 8th, 2009, 08:15 PM
So long as Telford doesn't make pretending to be women's husbands in his body a regular habit... :S

It's going to be fun to see how that one turns out!

:sheppard:

Eternal Density
November 8th, 2009, 08:26 PM
It's going to be fun to see how that one turns out!

:sheppard:That would be heading beyond Lucius territory.

Alder
November 9th, 2009, 02:30 AM
I think it's lazy viewing...I guess what I'm saying is that people are used to everything that matters being on the screen. SG:U is taking a tactk that lot is going on but we only see a window into it.. and sometimes we don't get all the answers or all the information until much later. I think therefore a lot of people are jumping to conclusions without enough information based on assuming that what they see on the screen is all that's happening...or that the writers/directors are going to show everything up front. So rather than letting the story unfold and let the gaps fill in over time, people end up complaining over what they perceive as a problem at the moment which is really only incomplete information.
In general terms I agree with you, and if this specific case was meant to be ambiguous, I'd agree with you here too - but - the blog entries suggest that the writers think it isn't ambiguous, and we ought to know that Young had Telford's permission to use his body for sex:

As I said, although there is no indication given, logic dictates that Telford would know something like that could happen (since Young IS returning for a conjugal visit) so its fair to assume he signed off permission.
Was the word 'conjugal' used in the episode? I didn't notice it, but could have missed it. If it was, then yes, you could make assumptions from that. If not, well, the viewer can't make assumptions from stuff the writers didn't mention, that's just clean makin' stuff up, not logic.

DoThKi
November 9th, 2009, 05:02 AM
Imagine if someone switched, let's say, McKay with someone else. The person who switched with him loves lemon meringue pie and has not been able to have it for some time. The person in McKay's body eats the pie, and since McKay is deathly allergic to citrus, the two of them die due to the switched person's irresponsibility.

I thought that they were doing something similar with Chloe's switcharoo. She was saying that she normally didn't feel that drunk. Then again she is obviously experiencing drunkenness through someone else's body. But it did seem a bit over the top and I thought for a moment that the body Chloe 'inhabited' may have a serious reaction to alcohol or an underlying chronic condition. Obviously that wasn't the case.

As for the 'communication disruption' I have to admit I blurted out a laugh straight away but it was more to do with the TPTB doing that one scene concerning the stones that could be seen a mile away. It's a one trick pony. There are perhaps a few more uncomfortable scenes I could think of but they would never be broadcast. Afterwards though I did think about all the problems with suggestions of sexual assault, pregnancy, disease, the dissociation between loving someone's soul and then having sex with a different body. It seems that no one has maintained a lasting relationship except maybe Rush and the suggestion of a dead spouse (a lot of TV seems to ignore that there is still a significant minority of stable marriages) and that many of them are antagonistic and sometimes cruel to each other.

Maxum
November 9th, 2009, 12:29 PM
Telford never asked permission to hijack Youngs decision and command.

How is that any different? Yes hes following orders but hes still using youngs body against his wishes. And hes done it before. I dont see why people are so quick to jump on young when its gone both ways.

Not only that but Telford hijacked Young's body and is keeping Young on Earth. The IOA, along with Telford, relieved Young of his command, which, in essence, traps him inside Telford's body for an undisclosed period of time. So is Young suppose to go find a nice quiet room to read books in for the next few weeks or months?

jmoz
November 9th, 2009, 01:53 PM
slightly off topic but not entirely, the communication disruption could be something else entirely. say another rush from another universe whose obsession with the destiny led to the death of all his other universe crewmates and he is trying to switch with rush in this universe using the communication devices but it isnt working because this rush isnt using them. so when rush does use them, the bad rush and this rush switch leading to chaos and a really good episode. just my opinions

LoneStar1836
November 10th, 2009, 07:52 AM
Not only that but Telford hijacked Young's body and is keeping Young on Earth. The IOA, along with Telford, relieved Young of his command, which, in essence, traps him inside Telford's body for an undisclosed period of time. So is Young suppose to go find a nice quiet room to read books in for the next few weeks or months?Why would it be weeks or months? :S

Telford and those two went there to dial Earth to bring all those people home right away. A plan had been worked out and they were sent to execute it as soon as possible. It wasn't like they weren't going to be coming back in a day or two (a week tops) regardless...especially those two scientists who probably had little interest in hanging around on Destiny any longer than they needed to.

If the ep had played out differently and Rush hadn't scared Telford off, Telford might have stuck around, but we don't know if he had been ordered to. Guy may be a jerk, but I do think he follows orders.

In no way did I interpret this episode as suggesting that Telford was planning on hanging around in Young's body for weeks or months. He was ordered to execute the plan they had. Nothing else, imo, suggested that he wasn't going to return within several days...even if they failed to dial Earth. Unless I missed someone saying so.

Croatoan
November 10th, 2009, 11:03 AM
What I am surprised I haven't seen more discussion on is what Telford is doing at the end of the episode going to see Everett's wife. I wonder if he's there to be a douche and get Everett in trouble or if he's going to start pretending he's Everett when he's not. Since she's now seen Everett in that body twice, she may just assume its him.

Arga
November 10th, 2009, 11:26 AM
What I am surprised I haven't seen more discussion on is what Telford is doing at the end of the episode going to see Everett's wife. I wonder if he's there to be a douche and get Everett in trouble or if he's going to start pretending he's Everett when he's not. Since she's now seen Everett in that body twice, she may just assume its him.

If I was the writer of the episode, in the last scene of Telford at the door, I'd intend to make every viewer think that he's going to pretend to be Young, in order to get some favours with his wife.. And then in another episode, reveal that it was for something completely different...
But I don't know anymore if the writers are that subtle; I bet it's for the sex.

Maxum
November 10th, 2009, 05:42 PM
Why would it be weeks or months? :S

Telford and those two went there to dial Earth to bring all those people home right away. A plan had been worked out and they were sent to execute it as soon as possible. It wasn't like they weren't going to be coming back in a day or two (a week tops) regardless...especially those two scientists who probably had little interest in hanging around on Destiny any longer than they needed to.

You're assuming that Telford would give up his command of the Destiny if the plan went wrong. Telford has been trying to undermine Young since the show started, and once he received the go-ahead to assume command, I don't see him giving it back, regardless of whether he makes it back to his own body.

garhkal
November 10th, 2009, 08:55 PM
Plus he did say he was ordered to take command. IMO that was for good.

LoneStar1836
November 11th, 2009, 12:23 PM
You're assuming that Telford would give up his command of the Destiny if the plan went wrong. Telford has been trying to undermine Young since the show started, and once he received the go-ahead to assume command, I don't see him giving it back, regardless of whether he makes it back to his own body.


Plus he did say he was ordered to take command. IMO that was for good.I watched the ep again yesterday. Young was not going to allow the attempt to dial Earth. Telford was ordered to carry it out. Anything beyond that is open for interpretation and of course assumptions.

He did say he was there to take command, but it wasn't explicitly stated that he had taken command permanently regardless of whether the attempt to dial Earth failed or not. Even if that were the case, imo, it still does not excuse away what Young did.

Course I am adamantly opposed to the SGC allowing these people outside the confines of the SGC. If it were me, they would all be confined to base and they would have zero contact with family/friends...except maybe in the form of pre-screened written correspondence.

If Young was going to be stuck in Telford body for months, well too bad. Though I think that would have only been dependent on how disciplined those on Destiny were. Telford is one person. He is relying on people on Destiny to keep following his orders otherwise they could trip the stones (even if a couple of guys were guarding them) and get Young back. Lots of what ifs....

Eternal Density
November 11th, 2009, 01:20 PM
If Young was going to be stuck in Telford body for months, then he could have stayed home with his wife, and naturally Destiny would switch in or out of FTL every time they got busy.