Should Sanctuary Characters Be Killed? - a discussion Spoilers S2

[RealmOfX]

After recent events on Sanctuary the topic came up amongst my friends of "should characters be killed". OK, I might of started it back in the second podcast when Martin made the mistake of saying you have to be able to kill characters and my immediate and strident reply was NO YOU DON'T!! Then after comments in the 3rd podcast, I wanted to grill TPTB on Why The Hell Did You Kill Ashley?!?!?!?

Well I know I can't grill TPTB on their reasoning but we do have a wide variety of opinions here on the forum so I thought we could discuss the pros and cons of killing characters on a TV series (as opposed to movies or mini series) specifically in relation to Sanctuary and differentiating between main and guest/supporting characters. Basically, 16 episodes into the series and we have three deaths already. What is your stance on the deaths and how will it likely affect your viewing of Sanctuary? What is your stance on any main characters in the future being killed?

Here's a few guidelines for this thread :

• No spoilers for future episodes, that means until an episode airs in the UK any details about the episode MUST be put behind spoiler tags. To be safe I'll update this first post with episodes not requiring spoiler tags.
• This is not a Save Ashley thread nor a Keep Ashley Dead campaign thread, if you want to jump on the campaign trail, take it to another thread.
• No bashing TPTB or name calling, feel free to disagree vehemently or passionately agree with them (or anything in between) but keep it civil and explain why you feel/think as you do.
• Keep the discussion related to Sanctuary, don't derail the thread by harping on what has happened in other shows.

OK everyone - have at it!!


Details of episode 2x04 Hero and beyond MUST be in spoiler tags

[RealmOfX]

Generally I just don't do main character death but I can occasionally see the need for it.

The killing off of Ashley particularly has me ticked off, to me it has the stink of stunt killing to fit in with a network story telling formula. I've always disagreed with Martin's philosophy that you HAVE to kill characters to keep it real, even back in the SG-1 days, as IMO it is only ONE way to keep it real and it has become the trendy, daring thing to do in recent years though most of the time it is just lazy story telling for ephemeral dramatic impact.

For me Sanctuary hasn't been running long enough or the characters developed enough to warrant a main character killing "to keep it real". I know there were many factors at play when TPTB decided to off Ashley and I'm not privvy to them but I feel it is a cop out. That they couldn't even definitively kill her off and have left the door open for Ashley to be brought back has the distinct odour of network plotting : If the audience is OK with it we are hailed as daring and forward thinking, blazing a path not often dared tread upon. With the flip side, the fans hate it and cause a massive stir gaining free publicity and increased viewers during a "bring back campaign" and the eventual character return.

In the case of Ashley, I don't feel that the character was given a chance to develop and couple that with the introduction of the Kate character, it looks like (intended or not) that it's necessary to have a kick arse female character with a smart mouth. So they kill off one character and bring in a similar character. That totally cheapens the act of killing the first character!!


Actually I'm still pretty cranky at the moment so I think I'll leave it here for now and come back later when I can calmly explain my thoughts.

People jump on in with your thoughts and if someone can help me see some positive points to killing Ashley, I'll be glad to hear it but at the moment I'm not seeing the value. Not when it comes on the heels of James death in the S1 finale and the glossed over death of Clara in the 2nd episode of this season.

[Skydiver]

I hate the 'kill for ratings' stunt they often pull. Let us endanger a character, kill him/her off to get fans interested.

bleh, cheap trick.

On the other hand, there are shows like Dexter, that has had 'name in the credits' characters killed off. and it works. It keeps it interesting because you have no idea who is 'safe'.

Why are red shirts so predictible? hey, they're disposable characters, so you know who'll die. and you know who'll live. takes the unknown out of the show.

If there's a good reason to kill a character, then do it. Maybe that 'good reason' is an actor wanting to leave a show. Maybe it's time for a character's story to end. If it's for a good reason, then kill them.

[majorsal]

i don't 'enjoy' characters being killed off, even if i don't like the character. but i do see the dramatic potential in doing so. and if i don't care for the character, his/her death will be much easier to take (example being daniel's death in 'meridian').

having said that, the ONLY thing i won't be able to take is helen's death, which i've been afraid of since the first episode (of the webisodes). i LOVE amanda, so any character she plays must live!

but seriously, killing off your main character can have long lasting effects on how the fans feel, with xena warrior princess being an example. just recently, i read an apology from lucy lawless, b/c evidently her and her exec producer/writer husband were the ones responsible for xena's demise. and lucy said a LOT of fans were turned off not only the show, but them too. that really surprised me, on many fronts.

as a fan of that show, i've not watched one single episode since. killing off beloved characters...

so as a person that loves to come up with stories, i can understand the killing off characters (good for character development and tension), but as a fan on the receiving end of a personal fave being killed off, i hate it.

i'll be able to take any character on this show being killed off, but not helen. simple as that.

(same for sam carter and sg1 series)

[AresLover452]

I know I would not be mad if Kate was to take a spill of a cliff....

[jelgate]

I can't give a yes or no answer. It tends on the depth of said character and what the show plans to bring by killing off said character. In the case of Ashley I thought it was wrong to kill her off. I can't but help but think of her as Sanctuary's version of Ford. She wasn't developed that well in S1 with too many stories devoted to Helen or Will. Instead of trying to fix that IMO it seems like TPTB have decidied to kill her off. Which given how much I loved Ashley leaves me disappointed. I just hope they don't resort to the resurection cliche. You made the choice. Leave her dead

[Phenix]

i'll be able to take any character on this show being killed off, but not helen. simple as that.

(same for sam carter and sg1 series)

Helen is the centerpiece of the show. You can not kill her off with out a crappy series finale.

I disagree with you for the most part. In an action show with carry over the characters need to suffer injuries and deal with death. I do not necessarily support killing off characters in the credits but I'll support it if it carries the story forward. You can really develop a character if you work with their grief and allow it to last. Essentially I am only a fan of this in speculative fiction.

I'll be really annoyed if the Sanctuary characters are done grieving after one episode. If that is the case then its pathetic writing and I'll lose some interest in it going forward.

[AresLover452]

it would really reflect badly on the show if the grieving was done after one eppy.... which i doubt but the preview they showed us....kinda sends mixed messages. Yes business has to get back to normal, but we are just going to have to wait and see what the whole eppy has to bring.

[badwolfSG]

My opinion in the matter is yes show could and I think need too kill character off. Most show are base on somewhat normal, and somewhat normal people die. Nevertheless is going to kill off a character I like it should be shocking.

Spoiler:

Like NCIS did with Kate. Kate death was the best TV show death of all time... And this is coming from a person who liked the character!

(Spoiler are only for people who watch the show NCIS and who haven't seen season3.)

However in the case of Sanctuary I don't think it was there best idea too kill off Ashley. Like many people said Ashley character wasn't realy explored well and also I think the mother/daughter team gave Sanctuary uniqueness that know other show had.

[AresLover452]

BSG prime example of death's and moving on.

[EvenstarSRV]

I hate the 'kill for ratings' stunt they often pull. Let us endanger a character, kill him/her off to get fans interested.

bleh, cheap trick.

On the other hand, there are shows like Dexter, that has had 'name in the credits' characters killed off. and it works. It keeps it interesting because you have no idea who is 'safe'.

Why are red shirts so predictible? hey, they're disposable characters, so you know who'll die. and you know who'll live. takes the unknown out of the show.

If there's a good reason to kill a character, then do it. Maybe that 'good reason' is an actor wanting to leave a show. Maybe it's time for a character's story to end. If it's for a good reason, then kill them.

I agree, I think generally speaking, killing a main character can work for a show if the storytelling sets it up, executes it, and follows up with it properly. When it's done for the ratings stunts it's usually fairly obvious because it's just not done well.

For Sanctuary, I'm trying to hold off judgment on

Spoiler:

Ashley's death until I get more solid information on the circumstances behind the decision. If EU chose to leave the show for whatever reason, then I think Ashley's sacrificing herself to save her mom and everyone else was a heroic send-off for the character.

However, if it was for other reasons, network interference, not wanting to develop Ashley further etc, then it comes across more as a cheap trick because she's being 'replaced' by Kate in a very superficial way.

I'm hoping Ashley's death was the former, and I have a certain amount of faith in this show's creative team that they would treat the characters as well as possible considering the variables in play.

[AresLover452]

Then there is the hope

Spoiler:

Ashley

isn't dead.

[RealmOfX]

I agree, I think generally speaking, killing a main character can work for a show if the storytelling sets it up, executes it, and follows up with it properly. When it's done for the ratings stunts it's usually fairly obvious because it's just not done well.

For Sanctuary, I'm trying to hold off judgment on

Spoiler:

Ashley's death until I get more solid information on the circumstances behind the decision. If EU chose to leave the show for whatever reason, then I think Ashley's sacrificing herself to save her mom and everyone else was a heroic send-off for the character.

However, if it was for other reasons, network interference, not wanting to develop Ashley further etc, then it comes across more as a cheap trick because she's being 'replaced' by Kate in a very superficial way.

I'm hoping Ashley's death was the former, and I have a certain amount of faith in this show's creative team that they would treat the characters as well as possible considering the variables in play.

After listening to the live chat with EU on BlogTalk Radio today :

don't read if you don't want to know whether EU will be in any more episodes or not

Spoiler:

seriously, last chance

Spoiler:

EU said she won't be back. As of now she is off Sanctuary.
She did say that there was talk of a possible storyline if there was a S3 but nothing concrete.
She also was quite happy for folks to campaign to get her back on the show. (my words)

Emilie was written out. For anyone that listened to the podcast can you remember when she was talking about the decision to write Ashley out? She mentioned the Network but I can't remember what she said.
It sounds like the health issues came later, she is getting back on her feet now after some complications and a longer than thought recuperation period.

[AresLover452]

I have hope there is a S3..... *keeping that thought*

[antoa]

Yes, characters should be killed if the creators deem it so. It is their story to tell, not the fans'. We are merely spectators.

Now, if it's the suits that push for the axing of a character, then that is a whole different story.

I am just not one to try and dictate to anyone how they should tell their story. If it gets to the point where their story is no longer entertaining, I will move on *cough*Lost*cough*Heroes*cough*.

Yeah, sure it sucks when a cool character gets killed off, but maybe the places that tragedy takes the story will be even cooler. But then again, maybe not.

All I know is that I am sticking around to find out.