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Squires
October 23rd, 2009, 07:27 PM
As opposed to hand picking the most skilled people that give the shuttle group the best chance for survival?

I'm torn on it myself. I would lean towards hand picking the best crew to get the job done. Maybe a line in the middle, hand pick 12 and make a lottery of 5, or something along those lines.

Jeff-B
October 23rd, 2009, 07:37 PM
You think he should have taken Rush's advice and "fixed" the lottery? Or just forget the lottery and give the order?

Squires
October 23rd, 2009, 07:41 PM
I was thinking more "give the order" as whats her name(i'm bad with names) suggest early on.

JeffKnight
October 23rd, 2009, 07:45 PM
Young is the polar opposite of Rush in this regard. He is all about honor and integrity. So he acted within the bounds of his personality. He made the logical choices about the pilot and medic and left everything up to fate. I think it would have broken his character if it happened any other way.

Cecil Brax
October 23rd, 2009, 07:45 PM
I think Young did what was the most fair in the situation he was given. I think he should have picked a few more people that could have helped them survive. At least one scientist with the knowledge necessary to help them long term. Maybe a few more soldiers to help with thir survival training. Granted, they got scientists and soldiers anyway, but it might not have gone down like that with the lottery. I would say pick 5, lottery 12.

Honestly though, he did what he felt was fair. Can't fault him for that.

- CB

Replicator Todd
October 23rd, 2009, 07:45 PM
I think Young handled things correctly, he played it fair.

Sonicbluemustang
October 23rd, 2009, 07:47 PM
Half Lottery and half hand picked imo. :)

Myles
October 23rd, 2009, 07:49 PM
I would have probably gone 5 hand picked, 10 lottery. They had two soldiers, one being a medic, then probably one more soldier, and a couple of scientists. The rest is up to luck.

Radahldo
October 23rd, 2009, 07:55 PM
I don't consider it fair. The amount of survivors guilt that lottery could've wrought is immense. While I enjoy his personality and strength, it still struck me as a decision more based in emotional/physical exhaustion than some sense of fairness.

JeffKnight
October 23rd, 2009, 07:56 PM
I don't consider it fair. The amount of survivors guilt that lottery could've wrought is immense. While I enjoy his personality and strength, it still struck me as a decision more based in emotional/physical exhaustion than some sense of fairness.

Which is why I feel that Young and Rush need to have co-leadership. Young will always do the fair thing. Rush will do the logical thing.

You also have to admit the fact that, sometimes, there is no right answer.

Descended
October 23rd, 2009, 07:56 PM
Luck yes, but it should be a narrowed pool, like no one over 40 and no non-reproductive age females. It should also have been 8 females, 7 males to maximize fertility.

There is no hope of rescue from Earth on that planet, so long-term survival depends on establishing a breeding population. It would be difficult to maximize genetic diversity in the growing colony, but you could probably make a long term population from such a small group.

After all, based on genetic analysis, many geneticists believe that sometime in early human history, some natural disaster (probably the Toba supervolcano (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory)) decimated the human population, to the point where there were only thought to be a few hundred reproductive females remaining in the entire world, and from that number today's diversity has developed.

Skydiver
October 23rd, 2009, 08:15 PM
logically, i can't agree with his lotto. to maximize survival you need skills, experience and knowledge. scott and TJ were obvious choices. someone else with survival skills, then people with other knowledge, scientists that could make stuff. and yes, a good male/female ratio.
really, you need one male for every 3-5 females i think.

course, that ratio is hard with the crew that they have, which is largely male.

things worked out, but really, for genetic survival they'd need all 80ish people. minimum sustainable genetic diversity is 40ish i think. so 80 would be good, especially since the gender divide is about 50/50 or 60/40

of course, the other key to genetic survival is, monogamy is a thing of the past. every woman should have a child by as many different men as she physically can. then half brothers and half sisters can't reproduce together.

romance and love would be a thing of the past and genetic diversity the main goal

Pharaoh Atem
October 23rd, 2009, 09:18 PM
I think Young handled things correctly, he played it fair.

85 people on the destiny and if he had hand picked them all he proabaly would have ended up with senator armstrong

kbtkbt
October 23rd, 2009, 09:24 PM
Col. Young should handle things differently yes.

He should choose 7 males & 8 females for human survival. Young and healthy.

DeltaSeal
October 23rd, 2009, 09:26 PM
Luck yes, but it should be a narrowed pool, like no one over 40 and no non-reproductive age females. It should also have been 8 females, 7 males to maximize fertility.

There is no hope of rescue from Earth on that planet, so long-term survival depends on establishing a breeding population. It would be difficult to maximize genetic diversity in the growing colony, but you could probably make a long term population from such a small group.

After all, based on genetic analysis, many geneticists believe that sometime in early human history, some natural disaster (probably the Toba supervolcano (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory)) decimated the human population, to the point where there were only thought to be a few hundred reproductive females remaining in the entire world, and from that number today's diversity has developed.

I was thinking the same thing.

MattSilver 3k
October 23rd, 2009, 09:33 PM
I think Young wasn't thinking about genetic diversity and long, long, long-term survival, for some reason. If he did and decided to go through with the lotto anyway, it speaks volumes of his character. He didn't want to be the guy to choose, and he wanted all the wrong people on the Destiny to get a chance, and not just let them burn up in the star because they don't have the right skills.

Pharaoh Atem
October 23rd, 2009, 09:36 PM
Col. Young should handle things differently yes.

He should choose 7 males & 8 females for human survival. Young and healthy.

and what if half of those 15 people didn't have any training in survival

would have been tough

garhkal
October 23rd, 2009, 09:45 PM
Young is the polar opposite of Rush in this regard. He is all about honor and integrity. So he acted within the bounds of his personality. He made the logical choices about the pilot and medic and left everything up to fate. I think it would have broken his character if it happened any other way.

Agreed. A leader of military folk knows he is expected to make the picks, but when civilians come into the equation, it is best to leave it to chance. And i loved how Chamile, started to argue, and when Young said he was going to pull her sheet out, she immediatly stopped and groveled. Teaches her to ignore the head guy!


I don't consider it fair. The amount of survivors guilt that lottery could've wrought is immense. While I enjoy his personality and strength, it still struck me as a decision more based in emotional/physical exhaustion than some sense of fairness.

True. Humans have always delt with survivor guilt, and some have even killed themselves over it.


You also have to admit the fact that, sometimes, there is no right answer.

True dat.

Franklyn Blaze
October 23rd, 2009, 09:50 PM
I don't really think 17 people in any combination make up a diverse enough genetic pool anyways. Isn't the number around 200 or 500? They didn't take into account hetero and homosexuals so I doubt they were thinking long term. (They had at least one homosexual) Or if people could have kids or not or if they had a genetic disease that would prevent them from having healthy kids and other criteria for long term survival.

Descended
October 23rd, 2009, 10:22 PM
In that situation sexual preference wouldn't come into it, all females would need to have offspring with as many different males as possible. (gay or not)

The survival training is fine, but none of them really had the necessary skills set needed. This isn't basic survival, this would be creation of agriculture and food procurement from scratch. They may not have the diversity to create a stable population, but with luck they could have survived for many generations before succumbing to genetic disease (possibly long enough for a rescue from Earth (given how quickly we are advancing in technology). Of course, there may be environmental factors which could increase the diversity of the population (i.e. higher than Earth standard levels of ionizing radiation) by increasing mutation rates. That would decrease the population bottleneck but would have problems with cancers and other diseases.

Young was basically passing the buck and not planning for survival. Harsh realities call for harsh measures. He was basically sending them there to die slowly.

Eternal Density
October 24th, 2009, 02:21 AM
On one hand, Young avoided his responsibility by leaving most of the picks to fate.
On the other hand, if he'd chosen everyone on the shuttle, he'd now have to live with the questioning of everyone he hadn't picked. So it turned out better this way. Not that the end justifies the means.

face of jase.
October 24th, 2009, 04:23 AM
I think Young wasn't thinking about genetic diversity and long, long, long-term survival, for some reason. If he did and decided to go through with the lotto anyway, it speaks volumes of his character. He didn't want to be the guy to choose, and he wanted all the wrong people on the Destiny to get a chance, and not just let them burn up in the star because they don't have the right skills.

For sure. I don't think a U.S Colonel with integrity and honor would sit on his hands pondering genetics and reproduction. He did was just and fair for these people. You guys are talking about best chances for survival and male to female ratios etc etc... they aren't animals... they're people with lives, skills, personalities and all of them deserved an equal right to leave the ship.

TonyB1972
October 24th, 2009, 04:51 AM
I was fine with it. They would of had more problems if he picked the names and risked a more open mutiny.

When you have a chance, you don't object too much...well until you don't have one, like the one guy.

I think they were just worried with surviving the present, not continuing the human race also.

Radahldo
October 24th, 2009, 04:55 AM
I got a good sense of how awful everyone who were left behind felt. I would rather be assessed and rejected, rather than die because of random game that I couldn't protest. Although on the other end I don't know how I would handle the responsibility Young had.
What he did reminded of this book I read in which Napolean was described as running his hand through a stack of letters on his desk, answering the ones that remained on top and disregarding the ones knocked to the floor. It's that same sort of caprice.

syfygal47
October 24th, 2009, 10:15 AM
I am not impressed with Young so far. This was a difficult situation, but I feel that he should have picked the people who had the best skills for survival. However, he has said several times that none of the crew have the right qualities, but then his leadership and doubt certainly do not inspire the crew to try to step up to the problems. There are also the inevitable comparison to Jack in SG-1, who certainly was inspiring. I also do not think that the actor who plays Young has anywhere near the acting ability of RDA. I don't feel that Young is a sympathetic character either.

rlr149
October 24th, 2009, 12:11 PM
... they aren't animals... they're people

people are animals, WE are biased towards our particular species of animal.


things worked out, but really, for genetic survival they'd need all 80ish people. minimum sustainable genetic diversity is 40ish i think. so 80 would be good, especially since the gender divide is about 50/50 or 60/40

depends who you ask, some people think its 2. some say 5000!
there's some remote island off the coast of the UK somewhere, where everyone is related, on the documentry i saw it said something like 136 were needed for minimum sustainability, and you still needed to be careful about who got together with who. 80 might be possible adhering to stricter guidelines for "pairing".

StarFighter
October 24th, 2009, 02:41 PM
I think it was pretty fair. He picked a pilot and a medic. The rest of them had a fair chance to be picked. It isn't like Young was planning who should go in order to populate a planet. Young picked more who would survive and get a chance to live the rest of their lives on the planet. Populating the planet was not the plan.

scruffyisasuperhero
October 24th, 2009, 03:58 PM
I think Young handled the situation correctly. By picking people impartially he shows himself to be a fair leader and it's those kind of qualities that show why people like Greer are so loyal to him even in bad situations.

ronin36
October 24th, 2009, 04:08 PM
I think Young handled the situation perfectly. He chose to exclude himself. And he chose the two key people needed to keep those people safe.

I think of it this way.. How would General Hammond have handled it. He would have done exact same thing.. I'm sure of it.

Young is a Colonel. Obviously he has some skills or would have never risen to that rank. He has the respect and adoration of the soldiers reporting to him. Look at Greer, look at Scott and James. The only soldier that's questionable is that sargaent. (He's gonna die sometime soon, I bet.)

But I see a Colonel version of General Hammond. A couple subtle differences. Hammond would call the men "son". Young calls them by their names. But so far.. He's very, very much like Hammond.

Yoshi442
October 24th, 2009, 04:31 PM
As opposed to hand picking the most skilled people that give the shuttle group the best chance for survival?

I'm torn on it myself. I would lean towards hand picking the best crew to get the job done. Maybe a line in the middle, hand pick 12 and make a lottery of 5, or something along those lines.

At the very least he needed to make sure there were an equal number of fertile women and men (and maybe slightly more women) for genetic diversity purposes. If they did have to land and the planet could sustain a human colony, they'd have to reproduce to survive.

Dain
October 24th, 2009, 04:53 PM
In a realistc terms, Young probably knew just as well as Rush that the chances that the small group of people could survive on the planet were astronomically low.
They didn't have the equipment for any colony building and their survival dependend almost entirely on finding a completely habitable world with earth-like atmosphere, the right temperature and edible but not dangerous lifeforms. You won't get such conditions on any planet without terraforming.

Just as the one scientist in her rant in the last episode said, planets orbiting a Red Dwarf aren't really hospitable, so chances were very slim, which was probably one of the reasons why Rush volunteered to stay behind on Destiny right away after he found out that two of the planets were definitely unusable.

The people also certainly wouldn't be psychologically ready to start a new civilization on the planet by breeding like rabbits (and the population was really to small for that anyway) either, they just would have sat there and waited for a resuce that certainly would never have come. The Destiny is their only anchor to Earth, without the ship they are hoeplessly lost forever, since they are several tens thousand galaxies away from the Milky Way.

So the entire charade about boarding the shuttle didn't really give them that much better chances at survival. Young just as well could stick to random chance under those circumstances and I think he knew it.

Serenity Gone
October 24th, 2009, 05:18 PM
Honestly I don't think surviving long term (as in species survival) was even a thought any of them had. The 17 were being sent off so they could live, not so they could continue the human population. As far as survival goes they would be able to make due with almost anyone they got, when your base pool is nothing but scientists and soldiers chances are most of them would know how to survive.

KEK
October 25th, 2009, 05:37 AM
He should have done the responsible thing and picked the group himself. A vote being 'fair' wouldn't have been much comfort to the people stranded on that planet when they realise that none of them have the skills needed to survive.

IcarusAbides
October 25th, 2009, 06:52 AM
He should have done the responsible thing and picked the group himself. A vote being 'fair' wouldn't have been much comfort to the people stranded on that planet when they realise that none of them have the skills needed to survive.
I think the sensible thing would have been to choose the most useful people to survive but Young didn't seem to want that responsibilty of who lives and who dies.

aream2000
October 25th, 2009, 07:20 AM
young did a pretty good job considering the circumstances, personally i would have tried a more democratic approach, where everyone gets to vote, obviously they wouldnt be able to vote for themselves, but thats just me

jelgate
October 25th, 2009, 07:20 AM
I think the sensible thing would have been to choose the most useful people to survive but Young didn't seem to want that responsibilty of who lives and who dies.

I honestly don't think their was time.

BrianD
October 25th, 2009, 07:44 AM
I think it's a tough choice but if people are to survive you have to choose the best combination for success. The lottery option in my opinion shows bad leadership.

KEK
October 25th, 2009, 07:56 AM
I honestly don't think their was time.

There must have been, they had hours. I mean even if the list wasn't perfect it would still be better than picking people at random.

Mythophile
October 25th, 2009, 07:58 AM
In a sense, it wouldn't have mattered because they would have just died slowly on Rock World. To me the biggest mistake Young made was allowing others to see his hopelessness. What he told Wray was basically that he didn't expect it to matter who they sent because they wouldn't survive anyway. Neither method of selection would really have mattered.

I think Wray may end up being the person who handles the PR for Young until he starts acting less depressed. As their improbable survival continues, Young is going to have to cheer up.

thekillman
October 25th, 2009, 08:05 AM
the fact that most people already disagreed with him or disliked his handling of things, handpicking the people would most likely cause an uprise against him.

also, did he fix it or not? Wray admits she would want to be on the shuttle, and is chosen. so it's left to interpretation whether he fixed it a bit or not.

best choice of action: no.
was there really another option: no

garhkal
October 25th, 2009, 11:24 AM
I think Young handled the situation perfectly. He chose to exclude himself. And he chose the two key people needed to keep those people safe.

I think of it this way.. How would General Hammond have handled it. He would have done exact same thing.. I'm sure of it.


I disagree. Hammond would have selected people he felt would have had the best chance of survival.


At the very least he needed to make sure there were an equal number of fertile women and men (and maybe slightly more women) for genetic diversity purposes. If they did have to land and the planet could sustain a human colony, they'd have to reproduce to survive.

We saw by the 5th pick (7 people total) 4 females and 3 males. But did not see the rest up to number 15 (who was a guy). So we don't know what the ratio is.

Confessor Rahl
October 25th, 2009, 12:45 PM
The lottery was logically absurd. Period. You pick half men, half women, in order of the most important skillsets. What in the heck was he thinking? I hated that particular plot choice in the episode as much as the absurd Young/Chloe business.

Maxum
October 25th, 2009, 01:09 PM
I don't think Young should have handpicked who survived. The "best and brightest" aren't always the ones that interact well with others. Look no further than Rush, who has demonstrated a selfish streak more than once. In order to survive, people have to be able to work together. Just because someone is military or a scientific genius doesn't mean that they can get people to work together. Young is a great commander, imo, while Telford is not.

Young did not want to play God in his final moments. He didn't want to pick who gets to live and who gets to die because his choices could have proven to be poor choices over time. The people he considered "necessary for survival" might have proved to be the complete opposite after a month on that rock.

Bottom line: Young made the right decision.

KEK
October 25th, 2009, 01:28 PM
I don't think Young should have handpicked who survived. The "best and brightest" aren't always the ones that interact well with others. Look no further than Rush, who has demonstrated a selfish streak more than once. In order to survive, people have to be able to work together. Just because someone is military or a scientific genius doesn't mean that they can get people to work together. Young is a great commander, imo, while Telford is not.

Young did not want to play God in his final moments. He didn't want to pick who gets to live and who gets to die because his choices could have proven to be poor choices over time. The people he considered "necessary for survival" might have proved to be the complete opposite after a month on that rock.

Bottom line: Young made the right decision.

Then he shouldn't have become an officer in the military.

Bottom line: he should have picked the people that he thought would best be able to survive together, but he bottled it.

rlr149
October 25th, 2009, 02:39 PM
Bottom line: Young made the right decision.

next page: maybe.

Maxum
October 25th, 2009, 03:01 PM
next page: maybe.

Probably.

GateroomGuard
October 25th, 2009, 04:32 PM
Young made the right call. They could either die on the ship or die later on the planet. The only fair thing to to is what he did. It doesn't matter what age, gender, skill set you have the results will be the same for everyone. Die now or later.

Eternal Density
October 25th, 2009, 07:31 PM
Yeah, I was thinking about the same. Young knew that even if the planet was habitable they wouldn't be able to survive long term, so it choosing people based on skills wouldn't make much long term difference. Without Destiny, no one's going home.

Saquist
October 25th, 2009, 07:33 PM
As opposed to hand picking the most skilled people that give the shuttle group the best chance for survival?

I'm torn on it myself. I would lean towards hand picking the best crew to get the job done. Maybe a line in the middle, hand pick 12 and make a lottery of 5, or something along those lines.

Young seems to me to be Commander of substantial quality one moment then impulsive the next. He never should have voiced his concerns openingly.

creed462
October 25th, 2009, 07:53 PM
Not really, He was being as fair as possible, It's not an easy thing to decide who lives and who dies. He knew they needed the best chance to get there, and that they needed medical help, There where only two known people who had those skills. Beyond Everyone deserved a chance

Radz
October 25th, 2009, 08:22 PM
Luck yes, but it should be a narrowed pool, like no one over 40 and no non-reproductive age females. It should also have been 8 females, 7 males to maximize fertility.

There is no hope of rescue from Earth on that planet, so long-term survival depends on establishing a breeding population. It would be difficult to maximize genetic diversity in the growing colony, but you could probably make a long term population from such a small group.developed.
I don't agree on the need to establish a long term population...I wouldn't want to bring another life into that situation. It's not like you're the last of humanity or anything.

Anyhow, I agree with Young's decision. Not because it was fair. Not because it was logical for survival. I agree because he wanted the departure to be as easy as possible. If he hand picked the ones that got to go he would likely have a riot on his hands. By making it a lottery, he maximized the probability that there wouldn't be a fight.

Saquist
October 26th, 2009, 08:04 AM
logically, i can't agree with his lotto. to maximize survival you need skills, experience and knowledge. scott and TJ were obvious choices. someone else with survival skills, then people with other knowledge, scientists that could make stuff. and yes, a good male/female ratio.
really, you need one male for every 3-5 females i think.

course, that ratio is hard with the crew that they have, which is largely male.

things worked out, but really, for genetic survival they'd need all 80ish people. minimum sustainable genetic diversity is 40ish i think. so 80 would be good, especially since the gender divide is about 50/50 or 60/40

of course, the other key to genetic survival is, monogamy is a thing of the past. every woman should have a child by as many different men as she physically can. then half brothers and half sisters can't reproduce together.

romance and love would be a thing of the past and genetic diversity the main goal



More females than males would be ideal.

renboy
October 27th, 2009, 02:43 AM
I don't think that with such a small group making sure you have a diverse genetic pool is even an issue;
I believe the goal is simply to give them the most chance to survive and live a long life, and not to reproduce or start a growing community.

Given that, I believe his choice was OK - He hand picked only two of the essential personnel - and while other specific people might have helped around they were not essential for the survival of the group.

It's an extremely difficult moral dilemma, on par with the dead man's switch problem they encountered in Air - and I think he did the best he could (though telling people that he will exclude them from the lottery as a threat is very out of line and inappropriate in this case - basically playing with people's lives).

And here is the twist -
I think he could have taken Rush's advice, and fix the lottery completely, choosing every single one of the people - but never telling anybody (not even Rush) - he would just have to live with this difficult decision (allegedly for a short while), but he would maximize the survivors chances and still save them from the psychological issues of knowing they were hand picked above other people.

Saquist
October 27th, 2009, 05:51 AM
The dead man switch was a lack of competent reasoning on the characters and the writers.

Phenom
October 27th, 2009, 06:10 AM
Terrible leadership by Young. The lottery decision deferred all responsibility of the result which is not a sign of a strong leader. However I do really like him but he dropped the ball on this call.

Given the circumstances, a handpicked group may have struggled to survive, let alone a group that may have ended up consisting of 12 cooks, a senators daughter and a kino. He would then have essentially been sending these people to their deaths with no chance of surviving.

jcoy
October 27th, 2009, 06:55 AM
Personally I think Young decided to have a lottery because he didn’t think the people on the shuttle where going to live that much longer than the people who stayed on destiny. The lottery lets everyone hold out hope a little longer.

What skills/knowledge/training do you need to have a good chance of survival on a random planet? Forget about reproduction for a minute, if they all die within nine months that’s not an issue. They’re going to a planet that falls somewhere between too hot to support life and too cold. So it could be like ANY environment on Earth. Actually it could be like Venus or Mars, but then it wouldn’t matter who you sent.

Assuming you have the right people, what skill sets would you choose?

Croatoan
October 27th, 2009, 10:21 AM
I think he did the right thing.

I see a really good mix of military and civilians in the general population of destiny. Every military individual who would of been at Icarus and thus made their way to Destiny would of had at least basic Survival Training. Most of the military individuals would probably of had Advanced Survival Training being that a majority of the military people who seem to be involved in these top secret things are special forces.

Now lets assume for a moment that TJ and Scott fall into normal military personnel this would mean you already have 2 people on the ship with at least some survival training.

Unless they happen to land on a planet with an ancient outpost where you need scientists what exact skill sets would really help you on the planet?

You really only need two arms and two legs to hunt and gather and that is all you really need to survive.

Jeff-B
October 27th, 2009, 03:12 PM
Wasn't it Riley that said he grew up on a farm? That would be a much more useful skill for long term survival than most given the situation. You'd have to have a scientist of some type, what would Gilligan's Island be without the Professor?

P-90_177
October 27th, 2009, 03:21 PM
Personally I think Young decided to have a lottery because he didn’t think the people on the shuttle where going to live that much longer than the people who stayed on destiny. The lottery lets everyone hold out hope a little longer.

What skills/knowledge/training do you need to have a good chance of survival on a random planet? Forget about reproduction for a minute, if they all die within nine months that’s not an issue. They’re going to a planet that falls somewhere between too hot to support life and too cold. So it could be like ANY environment on Earth. Actually it could be like Venus or Mars, but then it wouldn’t matter who you sent.

Assuming you have the right people, what skill sets would you choose?

hmmm.i hadn't actually thought of it but you're right. he probably did know the ones who were going wouldn't survive. it makes sense. I mean the one the shuttle was heading for was said to be a rock and chances are the other planets in the system wouldn't have been much better. They may have been able to last a number of months....but not very long.

Eternal Density
October 27th, 2009, 04:16 PM
The dead man switch was a lack of competent reasoning on the characters and the writers.*shrugs* If it was possible to close the door with a Kino, then they'd be down one Kino (not really a big deal) and the Senator would be dead anyway. Maybe they would have thought of using the Kino if the Senator hadn't taken matters into his own hands, but that wouldn't have helped keep him alive.

Corporal Obvious
October 27th, 2009, 04:25 PM
Young made the right call. They could either die on the ship or die later on the planet. The only fair thing to to is what he did. It doesn't matter what age, gender, skill set you have the results will be the same for everyone. Die now or later.

That was my take as well. Having the "right" people would have increased their chances to 60 out of 10,000 from 16 out of 10,000. They were doomed no matter what happened. The shuttle people might just live a few years longer, or not.

The Prophet
October 27th, 2009, 04:32 PM
I don't think anyone on the ship had any of the neccessary skills to survive for decades on an uninhabited planet. Sure, soldiers are trained to survive harsh conditions, but not for decades unaided. They didn't have any agricultural tools, and I doubt any people on the Icarus Base were botanists or agriculturalists.

Really, I think Young was just trying to give hope to people, and hope that somehow the Shuttle Crew would be rescued by Earth/ Other people.

And if he had picked the 15 people, then there probably would have been an uprising. It was his (susposed) last act as leader, I doubt he wanted guilt/regret on his conscience as he was going to his death.

StarFighter
October 27th, 2009, 08:21 PM
Young's decision to have a lottery after picking the medic and pilot made sense. Everyone knew that the "survivors" would also die. It was just a fair way to pick who got to live a little longer. Young's decision to have a lottery was good given the situation.

I'm not sure why some are saying it made him a bad leader.

Lightning Ducj
October 27th, 2009, 09:43 PM
Given the number of people involved, they couldn't contemplate a long term human outpost. So they couldn't be thinking of the proper male/female ratio. Almost any combination would soon mostly die off in months or years, maybe a few would possibly die of old age but doubtful. This was not the end of the human race so they weren't trying to perpetuate the species. Just give a handful of people a chance to live maybe another day and *maybe* some day get rescued, but even that would be unlikely.

But Young realized what Rush did not. You can't simply choose from someone's files who is best suited to live and die. That takes more will and character than just a skill sheet and that doesn't show up on paper.

Encoder
October 27th, 2009, 09:53 PM
I personally believe that in that situation there was never going to be an ideal group to select, and besides, ideal versus your life, most people would say screw ideal, I want to live.

The only true way to be fair was the lottery!

:sheppard:

Captain Obvious
October 27th, 2009, 11:16 PM
I have a feeling that we are going to see Young continue to avoid the really tough calls, leading him to lean on both Wray and Rush more, since they seem to be willing to " do what it takes" more than what "seems fair"

Eternal Density
October 27th, 2009, 11:18 PM
Technically, the only way to be fair was not to let anyone on the shuttle :P

koroush47
October 28th, 2009, 07:52 PM
As opposed to hand picking the most skilled people that give the shuttle group the best chance for survival?

I'm torn on it myself. I would lean towards hand picking the best crew to get the job done. Maybe a line in the middle, hand pick 12 and make a lottery of 5, or something along those lines.

They want to show him as a fair and good hearted person.

It was all character development.