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nhall
October 23rd, 2009, 07:22 PM
So, now that we've seen what Destiny will do when its power reserves are depleted -- I think there's a workaround to gate back to Earth.

All they have to do is run Destiny's reserves dry again (and Tau'ri are really really good at depleting Ancient power supplies -- EG Atlantis blew through ZPMs like water) to force Destiny to dive into a sun again. Now that they know how the ship replenishes its supply, they won't try to abandon ship.

Again, wait for Destiny to dive back into a star, and as soon as systems start coming back online, start dialing the stargate.

Why I think it'll work:

1) They already have the address (and should have the PoO by now, and if they don't - they can always try the procedure again)

2) The star generates the gravity well a stargate requires to establish a wormhole

3) Stargates are still able to establish and maintain a wormhole in the immediate vicinity of stars -- that's how Carter blew one up.

4) Eli already knows how much power is required to dial a nine-symbol address. It's just a matter of tweaking the gate's power interface to accommodate the fact that --

5)Dialing Earth from Destiny requires a tremendous amount of energy -- while Destiny is recharging, the gate draws power from the power reserves -- but while they're replenishing via a limitless supply of energy, Destiny should continue to try to recharge itself as the stargate continues to siphon power from the onboard supply -- EG, Destiny's power supply is simply a buffer at that point -- like a big capacitor. Think of it as running your car's engine while filling up the tank -- as long as there's gas in the station's wells, your car is never going to die, and you can use your car's power supply to power whatever you want.

Myles
October 23rd, 2009, 07:30 PM
Not a bad idea, but generally suns screw with wormholes. I would think being in one probably wouldn't be good either.

Saquist
October 23rd, 2009, 07:31 PM
Yeah that sounds like it would work.

Pat1487
October 23rd, 2009, 07:35 PM
1. Im pretty sure they dont have the PoO

2. Stars dont generate gravity wells that a normal stargate could use

3. Stargates have protocols that stop them from going through stars since many problems are caused by going trhough them, they would need to know alot about destiny's dialing program in order to bypass that

4. True

5. Might be possible, but it depends on how fast it takes in power, in your example the car is just sitting there, not using much fuel, if it was using as much fuel as possible the pump may not be able to pump enough fuel in fast enough to offset the amount its using, it would get choked up and fail

Ltcolshepjumper
October 23rd, 2009, 07:38 PM
Keep in mind, we don't know how long it takes for the power reserves to deplete. It could be years. What they could do is just continually try to dial earth, thereby using up the power more quickly.

Specter177
October 23rd, 2009, 07:38 PM
Stars don't generate gravity wells? Everything generates a gravity well, just some are bigger than others.

nhall
October 23rd, 2009, 07:43 PM
1. Im pretty sure they dont have the PoO

2. Stars dont generate gravity wells

3. Stargates have protocols that stop them from going through stars since many problems are caused by going trhough them, they would need to know alot about destiny's dialing program in order to bypass that

4. True

5. Might be possible, but it depends on how fast it takes in power, in your example the car is just sitting there, not using much fuel, if it was using as much fuel as possible the pump may not be able to pump enough fuel in fast enough to offset the amount its using, it would get choked up and fail

1) True, but, again - if they don't get the PoO right, they can always try again. And again. And again. They'll have to do it 31 (39 symbols minus the eight used for the address) times max, right?

2) Um... yes they do. Everything that has mass generates a gravity well - including stars (A star's gravity well is what keeps the star together, and the planets from flying off into space).

3) Yes, but they have the advantage of knowing the programming of common, newer DHDs -- so at least they have a place to start. This is just a matter of time point

5) Hmm... good point, but again -- I think they can work around that. In the case of not using up enough power, just fire everything up while in the star (Burn as much "gas" as possible). In the case of using too much for Destiny's "pumps" - that'll take awhile to work around, but there's gotta be a way to MacGuyver a buffer or capacitor similar to the one Icarus Base had (those light-fixture things above the gate)

The way I see it, the only thing keeping them from going home is doing a little poking around and some critical thinking. The major problems keeping them from going home are pretty much a non-issue at this point.

rlr149
October 23rd, 2009, 07:47 PM
2. Stars dont generate gravity wells



that stephen hawking dude is WAY off the mark then i guess.

Replicator Todd
October 23rd, 2009, 07:48 PM
Sounds like a future plotline, someone attempts to dial Earth while in the sun, the wormhole opens, they travel through time...again.

Myles
October 23rd, 2009, 07:52 PM
Sounds like a future plotline, someone attempts to dial Earth while in the sun, the wormhole opens, they travel through time...again.

LOL. It'll be exactly like '1969' except they meet Ancients who have no idea who they are/how they got there and Janus is there time traveling too and saves em.

JeffKnight
October 23rd, 2009, 07:52 PM
You're forgetting that the ship still has to maintain shields at that point. Presumably at some point, it also started some minimal flight control to keep from overtaxing the shield. We also don't know just how much power the Destiny actually got. Yes, they have the address, but as Rush said, "the properties are unique." There are just too many unknowns.

Sonicbluemustang
October 23rd, 2009, 07:54 PM
I dont think Destiny will let them dial earth anyway I think its pre programmed not to just like nobody can alter the ships course. :)

AVFan
October 23rd, 2009, 07:57 PM
Sounds like a future plotline, someone attempts to dial Earth while in the sun, the wormhole opens, they travel through time...again.

That would be awesome! :D

And maybe they were going too fast? In Adrift, they couldn't dial the gate because they were moving too fast and the gate couldn't connect with the gate network. (Or something like that.)

randomking
October 23rd, 2009, 07:57 PM
they would need control of destiny by then...and seeing as how they said i think 13 possibility's for there PoO (let me know if you know the right number) and im willing to bet destiny cant hold enough power to dial earth on its own (it took a planet just to dial the ship) the ship would probably fill up before they maid the right order and if they did they would be out of power by the time the left the star.

Pat1487
October 23rd, 2009, 08:02 PM
I meant gravity wells that stargates can use, i updated my other post


1) True, but, again - if they don't get the PoO right, they can always try again. And again. And again. They'll have to do it 31 (39 symbols minus the eight used for the address) times max, right?

Sitting in the sun dialing 31 times seems like a bad idea to me
If the shields fail while they are attempting it they will all be killed

For all we know the power requirement to dial earth may cause the shields to turn off, or weaken to the point where the star is too much for them


3) Yes, but they have the advantage of knowing the programming of common, newer DHDs -- so at least they have a place to start. This is just a matter of time point

The technology on the destiny is much much older then the DHDs weve seen
The programming may be completely different


5) Hmm... good point, but again -- I think they can work around that. In the case of not using up enough power, just fire everything up while in the star. In the case of using too much for Destiny's "pumps" - that'll take awhile to work around, but there's gotta be a way to MacGuyver a buffer or capacitor similar to the one Icarus Base had (those light-fixture things above the gate)

Maybe
If they could store the power that the ship is taking in from the star
Use capacitors to take and store energy from the ship as the ship takes energy from the star, then use that power later to attempt to dial earth

But they dont have the resources for that right now

Avenger
October 23rd, 2009, 09:30 PM
Not a bad idea, but generally suns screw with wormholes. I would think being in one probably wouldn't be good either.

Yep. Time travel. Destabilizing the cores of planets. Not a good thing.

segaxgames
October 23rd, 2009, 09:32 PM
this is brilliant.

LorAsh
October 23rd, 2009, 09:50 PM
They pull it off and they end up back on the Destiny before they actually get there, where Rush ascends and retakes human form on Earth while the rest of the survivors get on a ship and leave the Destiny explaining the ship we saw in Air 3.

Well maybe not, most of that, but it would explain how everything else was used up when they got there.

Count
October 24th, 2009, 12:13 AM
Gates wont dial when a wormhole would intersect a star. Sorry, this plan fails.

Reason? Watch "Red Sky", the SGC gate had to be hacked and have no DHD to dial a gate and have a wormhole thru a star.

EDIT: Just read a post above...

Stars don't have gravity wells... ARE YOU SERIOUS?

That's like first year high school science, ANYTHING with mass has gravity! Star's, second only to black holes have the HEAVIEST gravity wells in existance!

eliteaceman
October 24th, 2009, 12:25 AM
Didn't rush say they replenished the "reserves" do we know if they replenished the "main power"

pipi
October 24th, 2009, 03:28 AM
Yes, very interesting, then to all go splat on the iris because they don't have the code to open it. hahaha.

thekillman
October 24th, 2009, 05:15 AM
i'm not certain, but the power of a star, the TOTAL POWER of a star (thus the energy per second) is nowhere near what Icarus can supply

EternalAlteran
October 24th, 2009, 05:56 AM
I don't know but a sun would be able to supply the power Icarus does. It seems unlikely that Icarus can supply the amount the sun can. Alse Icarus would not be ably to give more power (energy per timeunit) than the sun. It seems unlikely that we could have made the Icarus base to draw all the planet's power at once.

I think it could work.
We would have to fly the destiny in. Wait for the ships to charge itself to a certain point(we wouldn't want the shield to collapse when we dialed), and then dial the gate. However we have to make sure there is no solarflare, cause otherwise we might end up somewhere in another time on earth.

thekillman
October 24th, 2009, 06:05 AM
hello! if Icarus had a RAW NAQUAHDAH core the energy it possesses would be 10^40 give or take joules.

the sun outputs that per WEEK

Count
October 24th, 2009, 07:28 AM
All kinda is pointless when the gate wont dial.

Unless they have an expert on ancient programming :)

Heart of Light
October 24th, 2009, 07:55 AM
Oh, it'll probably work. They'll create a wormhole to earth and then step through it...

... And end up somewhere in the past of the future, seeing as they have to pass through a SUN. :mckay:

Otarush
October 24th, 2009, 12:16 PM
Didn't rush say they replenished the "reserves" do we know if they replenished the "main power"

Probably: when things charge, usually the main battery charges first, then the aux batteries. Or all at the same time. Depends :)

Ekras
October 24th, 2009, 01:01 PM
I thought of this as well - as stated above though there would be numerous problems with doing it - going through a solar flare can even send them back (or forward) in time! - That being said it is something that they should at least show the crew considering.

What they would need to do to make this work is find some way of siphoning energy from the ship instead of depleting it. This of course is the hard part. Once stored, the ship would recharge at the next sun, and they may be able to use the combined power that they stored along with the ships current reserves to make a jump back to a closer galaxy that the SGU may be able to dial with a ZPM or a chain of gates.

Unfortunately as they do not have a way to store energy (something tells me the batteries in their flashlights wont be enough lol) this currently is outside their reach. It is more information that they will need to "work the problem" as Col. Young so elegantly describes problem solving.

Mr chuckles
October 24th, 2009, 05:06 PM
Dialling the gate to Earth won't work. These are prototype gates, older than the Milkyway and Pegasus gates, designed to work short range. Joseph Mallozzi said as much on his blog. Maybe the Ancients were planning to go back and forth when the Destiny was closer to Earth but never got round to it.

Morrolan
October 24th, 2009, 05:29 PM
Gates wont dial when a wormhole would intersect a star. Sorry, this plan fails.

Reason? Watch "Red Sky", the SGC gate had to be hacked and have no DHD to dial a gate and have a wormhole thru a star.

EDIT: Just read a post above...

Stars don't have gravity wells... ARE YOU SERIOUS?

That's like first year high school science, ANYTHING with mass has gravity! Star's, second only to black holes have the HEAVIEST gravity wells in existance!

If you're going to quote, don't paraphrase. The poster didn't say stars don't have gravity wells. The exact quote is "Stars dont generate gravity wells that a normal stargate could use."

Big difference.

Ekras
October 24th, 2009, 05:34 PM
Dialling the gate to Earth won't work. These are prototype gates, older than the Milkyway and Pegasus gates, designed to work short range. Joseph Mallozzi said as much on his blog. Maybe the Ancients were planning to go back and forth when the Destiny was closer to Earth but never got round to it.

Blog != canon - Until they say as much in the show, we can only assume that its capable since Rush said that the obstacle in dialing home is power. Plus things change during production and evolution of shows - This may have been what they intended but changed it along the line...or it could be revealed later down the line.

Plus it stands to reason if you can dial in, you can dial out the same way. Plus the address is in the gate system, so it should be possible to do if they can manage to get the enormous amounts of power to do so.

dahok
October 24th, 2009, 05:44 PM
Blog != canon - Until they say as much in the show, we can only assume that its capable since Rush said that the obstacle in dialing home is power. Plus things change during production and evolution of shows - This may have been what they intended but changed it along the line...or it could be revealed later down the line.

Plus it stands to reason if you can dial in, you can dial out the same way. Plus the address is in the gate system, so it should be possible to do if they can manage to get the enormous amounts of power to do so.

That would seem odd, being that this particular ship followed the seeder that went to Pegasus. The gates there are newer than the MW ones.

If the gate on Destiny looked different than the planets', I would understand. It could be possible that they never swapped the one on the ship, but the seeder has more advanced designs on it.

Dain
October 24th, 2009, 05:44 PM
I could be wrong, but wasn't it impossible to create a wormhole connection that went right through a sun? There was a SG1-episode were they somehow contaminated a star by travelling through it and had to ask the Asgard for help to fix the problem. In that episode, it was mentioned that normally, a security protocol in every normal Stargates prevents such wormholes from forming.

So they couldn't open a wormhole as long as the Destiny is still recharging unless they hack into the operating system of the Stargate and even then there is the chance that the wormhole might be unusable (I don't remember what exactly the problem in that episode was).

Ekras
October 24th, 2009, 05:55 PM
I could be wrong, but wasn't it impossible to create a wormhole connection that went right through a sun? There was a SG1-episode were they somehow contaminated a star by travelling through it and had to ask the Asgard for help to fix the problem. In that episode, it was mentioned that normally, a security protocol in every normal Stargates prevents such wormholes from forming.

So they couldn't open a wormhole as long as the Destiny is still recharging unless they hack into the operating system of the Stargate and even then there is the chance that the wormhole might be unusable (I don't remember what exactly the problem in that episode was).

They contaminated the sun with something (plutonium I think) that caused the sun to turn red.

They would have to override the system to do it, and it might harm the star, but wouldn't effect the travelers afaik.

nhall
October 24th, 2009, 07:46 PM
If you're going to quote, don't paraphrase. The poster didn't say stars don't have gravity wells. The exact quote is "Stars dont generate gravity wells that a normal stargate could use."

Big difference.

His original post just said "gravity well" he edited, the rest of us failed to do so. :s

Count
October 24th, 2009, 07:50 PM
Re: Contaminated Star posts:

watch SG1: RED SKY as i stated earlier. In this episode, the Asgard reveal the stargates will NOT connect to another stargate IF THE WORMHOLE WOULD TRAVEL THROUGH A SUN, again, as stated before.

The only reason the SGC could dial thru a star was because Carter hacked the gate, the Destiny gate would have to be hacked by people who havent even figured out how to turn autopilot off! In a window of a few minutes.

nhall
October 24th, 2009, 08:04 PM
Well, they wouldn't have to hack the DHD within a few minutes. They could do it beforehand. Hell, they could take the onboard DHD offline altogether and use a laptop with a dialing program (it stands to reason you could jury-rig the stones to transcieve data bursts). As far as having an expert in Ancient programming aboard - there's always the communication stones. As far as the iris is concerned - comm into the sgc right before attempting the procedure to inform them what they're about to attempt. The sun screwing with the wormhole and the chance of shield failure would be the biggest obstacles, IMHO.

Even if they were sent through time, there's always either the "Last Man" option from Atlantis, or the 1969 / 2010 methods from sg-1 to get back to modern day.

If I were the Destiny crew, I'd at least look into it. Then again, these are the same folks that took like five minutes to come up with the idea of using a slingshot maneuver to catch up with Destiny. :\ Not talking the calculations, I'm talking just for the idea.

Count
October 24th, 2009, 08:14 PM
Well, they wouldn't have to hack the DHD within a few minutes. They could do it beforehand. Hell, they could take the onboard DHD offline altogether and use a laptop with a dialing program (it stands to reason you could jury-rig the stones to transcieve data bursts). As far as having an expert in Ancient programming aboard - there's always the communication stones. As far as the iris is concerned - comm into the sgc right before attempting the procedure to inform them what they're about to attempt. The sun screwing with the wormhole and the chance of shield failure would be the biggest obstacles, IMHO.

Even if they were sent through time, there's always either the "Last Man" option from Atlantis, or the 1969 / 2010 methods from sg-1 to get back to modern day.

If I were the Destiny crew, I'd at least look into it. Then again, these are the same folks that took like five minutes to come up with the idea of using a slingshot maneuver to catch up with Destiny. :\ Not talking the calculations, I'm talking just for the idea.

I didnt say the DHD was hacked, i said the GATE was hacked. That's where the plan fails, someone would have to get into the gate's programming crystals themselves and re-write the componants that will let them establish a wormhole connection thru a sun; just like Carter did in Red Sky.

Time travel will not be a concern at all, the only reason gates could time travel is the wormhole was intersected by a massive energy burst near a gravity well (A solar flare near a star). A wormhole directly leaving the star itself, unless the Destiny was inside a solar flare or the like wouldnt trigger a time jumping wormhole.

The other problem they have, is they need to try dialling the gate 36 times to figure out the POO which they currently do not have for the Earth dialling sequence. "Only 36 tries", unless that was recently changed when they went to the desert world.

nhall
October 24th, 2009, 08:24 PM
I didnt say the DHD was hacked, i said the GATE was hacked. That's where the plan fails, someone would have to get into the gate's programming crystals themselves and re-write the componants that will let them establish a wormhole connection thru a sun; just like Carter did in Red Sky.

Time travel will not be a concern at all, the only reason gates could time travel is the wormhole was intersected by a massive energy burst near a gravity well (A solar flare near a star). A wormhole directly leaving the star itself, unless the Destiny was inside a solar flare or the like wouldnt trigger a time jumping wormhole.

The other problem they have, is they need to try dialling the gate 36 times to figure out the POO which they currently do not have for the Earth dialling sequence. "Only 36 tries", unless that was recently changed when they went to the desert world.

I'm gonna have to watch Red Sky again. I don't remember if it was a safety protocol in the gate or in the DHD. I think I remember Carter saying Earth was able to get a lock because they didn't have a DHD and were thus able to override that safety protocol. Carter was able to override it in a matter of minutes, again if I remember correctly. Like I said, I need to rewatch :(

geddarkstorm
October 24th, 2009, 09:04 PM
i'm not certain, but the power of a star, the TOTAL POWER of a star (thus the energy per second) is nowhere near what Icarus can supply

And how do you harvest said total solar power :P? Got a Dyson's sphere handy?

The collectors on the Destiny are small, they are only going to be able to gather what power they have the capacity material or energy to scoop up, which is a minute fraction of the solar volume, and thus a minute fraction of the solar energy output.

Count
October 24th, 2009, 11:21 PM
I'm gonna have to watch Red Sky again. I don't remember if it was a safety protocol in the gate or in the DHD. I think I remember Carter saying Earth was able to get a lock because they didn't have a DHD and were thus able to override that safety protocol. Carter was able to override it in a matter of minutes, again if I remember correctly. Like I said, I need to rewatch :(

Yea, you got it a bit wrong, you're thinking of the 1969 with the solar flare

The key points to watch in Red Sky are:
The start when they first get thrown out of the gate.
The first time the planet's sun changes colour(Carter's apples/oranges speech)
The Asgard council meeting basically confirming carter's fears.

AnonyMoose
October 25th, 2009, 12:44 AM
You may be interested in watching this two-part behind-the-scenes video made by Amanda Tapping when they filmed SG1 "Red Sky":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGeFpFxb8no
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwIyD4NXYZw

IMForeman
October 25th, 2009, 06:07 PM
Here's a way home:

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t341/Enigmanaut/sgu_102_1296.jpg

The crew of Destiny are officially saved.

"Allons-y!"

creed462
October 25th, 2009, 09:30 PM
Here's a way home:

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t341/Enigmanaut/sgu_102_1296.jpg

The crew of Destiny are officially saved.

"Allons-y!"
Oh Yeah, and the entire crew does the Tardis round about. lol

IMForeman
October 25th, 2009, 09:32 PM
Oh Yeah, and the entire crew does the Tardis round about. lol

Hey, man... they all can fit in that there box. All at once. ;)

creed462
October 25th, 2009, 09:42 PM
Hey, man... they all can fit in that there box. All at once. ;)

yes it is much bigger on the inside

Pianomancuber
October 25th, 2009, 10:23 PM
I saw a video on youtube from the next episode ("water") where Rush is talking about what happened when they dipped into the star. This clip is a preview clip and I'm not sure if it's been brought up in this thread already but here's the gist of what he says.

Only about 40% of the reserves have been replenished. Furthermore he states that it might not even be possible to dial earth due to the ridiculous distance and power requirements. And (not in the clip) it wouldn't matter if they dialed when they were in the star. At the rate they gained power back it just wouldn't be feasible to dial. It's like I might have a 20 Mb/sec internet connection but be using an 8 Mb/sec cable. No matter how much internet speed I have I can only use so much.
Here's a link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavOFqpWwgk

captain Qball
October 25th, 2009, 10:23 PM
I don't think the "wormhole through a sun" thing is too relevant to the Destiny. The ship is thousands of galaxies away from earth. considering how many stars are in each galaxy, and the narrow path that would need to be taken to get from Destiny to earth, it would be a huge oversight.

If the destiny is actually designed to dial back to earth, I'm sure it would have ways to get past the sun and blackhole issues, if they were known at the time. Obviously the sun issue was known by the time the Milky Way gates were produced, since the DHD is designed to avoid the situation.

I think solar flares might still be a possibility since they should be pretty rare, and there's no evidence that the ancients knew about that possibility. Of course going off of how many solar flares were shown in continuum just for one galaxy, it again seems impossible that a connection could be made to earth without passing through one.

Count
October 26th, 2009, 07:50 PM
I don't think the "wormhole through a sun" thing is too relevant to the Destiny. The ship is thousands of galaxies away from earth. considering how many stars are in each galaxy, and the narrow path that would need to be taken to get from Destiny to earth, it would be a huge oversight.

If the destiny is actually designed to dial back to earth, I'm sure it would have ways to get past the sun and blackhole issues, if they were known at the time. Obviously the sun issue was known by the time the Milky Way gates were produced, since the DHD is designed to avoid the situation.

I think solar flares might still be a possibility since they should be pretty rare, and there's no evidence that the ancients knew about that possibility. Of course going off of how many solar flares were shown in continuum just for one galaxy, it again seems impossible that a connection could be made to earth without passing through one.

The Destiny gate is the prototype gate, the only arguments i can think for about going thru stars and the like not mattering is that the prototype doesn't have all the failsafes installed that later gates did.

Although let's not forget, the ancients are travelling to an unexplored and potentially empty part of the universe, they may not give a crap if they detonate a star or two in their travels because the chances of it being populated is statistically insignificant. The only reason Pegasus, MW and Altera were flush with life was because it was seeded.

In fact, the only galaxy we've ever known of with life developing on it's own was Ida, and that was just one species, the Asgard.

Power is the issue, as seen in Water, adn we need not forget the ridiculous amounts of power required to dial between Pegasus and MW, the Destiny is TWENTY-SIX times that distance away (assuming it travelled in a straight line and didnt hopscotch between galaxies). Dialling Destiny could drain all Atlantis + Odyssey + Weapon Chair's ZPMs in one hit, for a one way trip To the destiny and no way back.

But i do see the chance of the SGC getting a wormhole open sometime in the future or "slingshotting" a ring transporter signal like Vala did in "Beachhead". Maybe the Odyssey or ex-weapon chairs ZPM is given to the Destiny to help them try to return home.

Mongoletsi
October 27th, 2009, 05:34 AM
I don't think we know anything like enough about Destiny's capabilities, power levels, etc in order to have anything like an informed discussion about this :D

escyos
October 27th, 2009, 10:49 PM
remember what happened when a stargate was placed in a star, it drew out too much mass and the star went supernova..if they draw too much power out that could happen...or the ship could overheat and blow up.

Count
October 28th, 2009, 05:52 AM
remember what happened when a stargate was placed in a star, it drew out too much mass and the star went supernova..if they draw too much power out that could happen...or the ship could overheat and blow up.

actually, that was only because the gate was connected via wormhole to a black hole that sucked matter out of the star directly.

Gate Master
October 28th, 2009, 09:45 AM
I doubt the destiny even at full power, ever had the power to dial earth on its own. If its power source was good enough to provide ZPM levels of power it would have been used alot more by the ancients and other species presumably. Its more likely that its power source was designed with longevity in mind rather than generating huge amounts of power. The ancients probably planned to bring another power source with them or borrow another one to gate back home such as parking near a black hole.

Of course power might not be the issue as Rush said in the past that the ship may not have the ability to gate back home which probably means the gate itsself isn't powerful enough given it is supposed to have limited range.

I guess we'll find out soon enough neway but if its merely a power issue then after recharging they should have access to alot more gate addresses. But if its a limitation of the gate then no amount of power will help.

Dain
October 28th, 2009, 03:05 PM
Initially the Destiny wasn't too far away to be used. The huge power requirements are only the result of travelling away from the Milky Way galaxy for probably over a million years.

From what I understand, the Ancients simply never used the Destiny because they had enough problems in their neighborhood to worry about and then their civilization collapsed.

escyos
October 28th, 2009, 04:56 PM
actually, that was only because the gate was connected via wormhole to a black hole that sucked matter out of the star directly.

if the destiny pulled enough matter out of the star it would still work

Count
October 28th, 2009, 05:26 PM
if the destiny pulled enough matter out of the star it would still work

No.. it wouldn't.

I'll try and explain it in lamens terms instead of getting complicated into mass depletion between stars.

Basically, the Destiny could never draw enough mass from a star fast enough to cause it to become unstable.

A star is a constant battle between the nuclear explosion that it contains, with the gravity of the dense amount of fuel within the star holding it together. The explosion and gravity cancel each other out and you get a star. Now in normal cases, the amount of mass removed by a star as it simply "burns" is so small that the amount of mass loss is neglegible and the gravity of the remaining mass can remain intact, causing nothing in the star to change.

Short of being a black hole or another star in terms of mass (gravity effect), the Destiny could never draw enough mass out of the star, no matter how much it pulls out, even if it somehow could draw enough material out, it would never actually trigger the star to become unstable since the mass loss is equal to the gravity effect of the star's remaining mass on the star itself.

You can see this in binary stars all the time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_star#Mass_transfer_and_accretion

Basically even if something the size of another star tried to pull material out of another star, it still wouldnt' case instability in the star, the star is warped by the effect of ther other star, but it generally remains intact and wouldn't nova. Even something like a neutron star or a star orbiting a black hole would do this, it's simply impossible.

The reason stargate managed to pull of what it did was because the the stargate open was simply the equivilant of producing a "collision" between a black hole and a star, of course the black hole being represented by the stargate itself, so it was incredibly small in terms of effect, but the insane amount of energy. The mass loss was enough to push the star into instability and the remaining gravity provided by the stargate itself allowed the star to collapse (a black hole's gravity well, added to the star's own one would force the star to collapse into itself, accelerating the natural detonation of the star due to age). If the star was still a main sequence star, it's explosion would also be enhanced by the amount of hydrogen fuel left in the star. Typically old stars do not have hydrogen left in them and the explosion is a result of heavier materials such as iron, magneism and sillcon remaining.

I know it sounds complicated, but i have dumbed it down for the non astronomers in the forums.

Long story short, nothign could collapse a star in terms of "real life physics" like draining fuel from a star.

escyos
October 28th, 2009, 08:06 PM
you cant state that for a fact because they are untested circumstances, stargate or destiny..

on a side note, is anyone else annoyed at the mods merging every thread together

Count
October 28th, 2009, 11:24 PM
you cant state that for a fact because they are untested circumstances, stargate or destiny..

on a side note, is anyone else annoyed at the mods merging every thread together

Actually... i can. It's called Physics. What astronomical sciences are based on.

I can tell you exactly what's needed to make a star unstable or explode, and short of something completely made up, there's only so many ways to do it.

Danyl
October 30th, 2009, 12:49 PM
When they first dialed onto the Destiny, they destroyed an entire planet. This gives some indication of how much energy is required. if they were to try this they could end up destroying the ship along with themselves. I don't think that there getting home via the gate.