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JeffKnight
October 23rd, 2009, 07:08 PM
While I am sure he had some idea churning in his head about how the ship got more power - even ZPMs would have been depleted by now, and he knows that ship predates that technology by many thousands of years if not longer - I am not sure if he was 100% sure. Seriously, I think we are ignoring that Rush is a much deeper character than he so far has presented. He is extremely intelligent, emotionally handicapped, socially unstable in a manner that would make Rodney look absolutely normal, but yet, I feel there is something more to him. While he has been "right" quite often, I think they are setting him up to be the anti-Carter/anti-Rodney. No matter what, when one of those two suggested something in SG1/SGA we went with it. Here, we aren't so easy to trust Rush, and someday that may really bite us in the ass. I think that is the way TPTB want it.

So IMHO, I think that, yeah he had an inkling that something would happen to save their lives, but on the other hand, I don't think he was willing to bet every single one of their lives on one of his wild and crazy ideas (again).

Of course, I could be wrong and he could just be a sadist who wanted to see the others put through the proverbial wringer and possibly hoping that some of the crazier nut jobs (like the IOA woman) would be "lost", but that would mean his character is less deep than I know him to be.

Pat1487
October 23rd, 2009, 07:13 PM
He seemed genuinely surprised by the fact that they werent vaporized

It was in the scene where he looked at his watch, realized they shouldve been dead by now, went to the observation deck, saw how close they were to the sun, realized the destiny was doing this on purpose and that they would live, then stared laughing in joy
Then Eli asked him why he was happy and he explained it

So i dont think he knew before hand

Ltcolshepjumper
October 23rd, 2009, 07:14 PM
Yeah, I think he knew. the question is, why did he put them through that?

I'd bet he was hoping that Young would go as well, leaving the command of the Destiny to himself. As he stated, the Destiny was his destiny. It's the same reason why he dialed the ship in the first place.

I don't think he knew when the power was failing, but I think that after they decided to use the shuttle, he must have guessed that the ship was going to draw energy, which is why he went to his room to just read a book rather than doing something else. His excitement didn't seem very authentic to me. It seemed more like he was excited that he was right, rather than incorrect. It did seem like he was expecting it from the moment he went out to look at the star (he didn't really seem surprised).

Cecil Brax
October 23rd, 2009, 07:16 PM
Honestly,

I don't really think he knew. He suggested that Young fix the lottery to send the people that he thought would be best able to help the group's long term survival. Which means that would remove the people who could help his 'surviving' group's long term survival if he did know they were going to survive.

I believe he had an idea they might survive, but he didn't know for sure. I think he was hoping the ship would survive the whole time but wasn't planning on it. I could be wrong, but its just my opinion.

Maybe we'll see in later episodes if he knew or not, or maybe not. That's one of the great things about the show is its giving us alot of information about the ship and the ancients, but isn't "Clear cutting" it with the characters and is letting us draw our own conclusions. I like that.

- CB

Specter177
October 23rd, 2009, 07:16 PM
Honestly, if he said that it just looked like they were going to fly into the star, but were really just going to skim it to refuel, would any of the others have believed him?

Myles
October 23rd, 2009, 07:18 PM
Yeah, I think he knew. the question is, why did he put them through that?

I'd bet he was hoping that Young would go as well, leaving the command of the Destiny to himself. As he stated, the Destiny was his destiny. It's the same reason why he dialed the ship in the first place.

That's an interesting theory, and I kinda agree. At the time I thought he looked genuinely shocked and happy to be alive, but looking back it could easily be that he was feeling the same way about being right, as well as happy to be alive.

Saquist
October 23rd, 2009, 07:20 PM
Yeah, I think he knew. the question is, why did he put them through that?

I'd bet he was hoping that Young would go as well, leaving the command of the Destiny to himself. As he stated, the Destiny was his destiny. It's the same reason why he dialed the ship in the first place.

I don't think he knew when the power was failing, but I think that after they decided to use the shuttle, he must have guessed that the ship was going to draw energy, which is why he went to his room to just read a book rather than doing something else. His excitement didn't seem very authentic to me. It seemed more like he was excited that he was right, rather than incorrect. It did seem like he was expecting it from the moment he went out to look at the star (he didn't really seem surprised).

There are two options here.

1. He wanted them off the ship so that he could do what he wanted
2. He let them go just in case, sparring everyone hope crush.

Descended
October 23rd, 2009, 07:21 PM
It is obvious that he didn't know, he wasn't faking the reaction to seeing that they were still alive, because when he entered the room, Eli and Chloe were behind him, he didn't see them, so why fake the excitement and laughing.

I think he was hoping that something would save them, but he was planning for the worst. Otherwise he would never have let them take those supplies and the ships only working shuttle. They were within a hairsbreadth of losing them when that shuttle couldn't match velocity.

AnonyMoose
October 23rd, 2009, 07:23 PM
Honestly,

I don't really think he knew. He suggested that Young fix the lottery to send the people that he thought would be best able to help the group's long term survival. Which means that would remove the people who could help his 'surviving' group's long term survival if he did know they were going to survive.


Actually, he was encouraging Young to send Greer, who fought with Rush in the desert.

If he did know ahead of time that they would survive, then this was one opportunity to get rid of Greer.

wargrafix
October 23rd, 2009, 07:24 PM
If he really knew, then I would admit I was fooled. He seemed genuinely shocked and pleased. I think the final scene reflect his extreme pessimism which makes him seem like a dick. Honestly, he is right. They are back where they started since they still have no control over the ship.

Replicator Todd
October 23rd, 2009, 07:25 PM
Oh yes, I truly do believe he knew. Especially when Eli showed them the Destiny with the Kino.

JeffKnight
October 23rd, 2009, 07:25 PM
Honestly, if he said that it just looked like they were going to fly into the star, but were really just going to skim it to refuel, would any of the others have believed him?

Maybe Eli? Yeah, there'd have been a major tiff over that decision and we'd have the whole "why should we trust you, you got us stranded here in the first place" argument all over again. Which is why I said I think TPTB are setting him up to be an anti-Carter/anti-Rodney. No matter what, someone will always question his decisions and motives.

Saquist
October 23rd, 2009, 07:26 PM
The only genuine emotion I got from Rush was when Eli showed him Destiny.

This isn't the first time Rush has been stingy on the facts.

Saquist
October 23rd, 2009, 07:26 PM
Oh yes, I truly do believe he knew. Especially when Eli showed them the Destiny with the Kino.

The ship's shape designed to sun surf?

Sonicbluemustang
October 23rd, 2009, 07:30 PM
Na I dont think so either, He looked genuinly surprised imo. :)

joeynox
October 23rd, 2009, 07:30 PM
theres no way he knew. he was nervous just like the rest.

Cecil Brax
October 23rd, 2009, 07:32 PM
Actually, he was encouraging Young to send Greer, who fought with Rush in the desert.

If he did know ahead of time that they would survive, then this was one opportunity to get rid of Greer.

Yep,

I thought about this and I figured someone would bring it up too. He told Young to fix the lottery, not to specifically send Greer. He also said that everyone will think he has fixed it anyway so why not send who he wants to.

Sure he could have known, and could have been trying to get him to send Greer, but if he really planned to have Greer gone I would think he might have been a little more direct. Its only speculation.

Now, the real question is, if he knew they were going to survive why wouldn't he sabotage the shuttle to keep it? They have one working shuttle and who knows what they might need it for. That's a valuable piece of technology to just let fly away.

Then later, he was trying to save the shuttle. Sure to get supplies back maybe, but why would he care if he "Knew all along" he obviously thought they could do without those supplies or he would have just told them "Hey I think the ship is going to survive" if the supplies were so critical they couldn't survive without them.

Anyway, that's just my take on it. There are more factors, in my opinion, pointing towards him not knowing for sure (But maybe suspecting) them him knowing outright the ship would survive.

- CB

Saquist
October 23rd, 2009, 07:32 PM
Fool me once shame on you.
Fool me twice shame on me.

I can't trust Rush.

randomking
October 23rd, 2009, 07:35 PM
im starting to think this is going to be more drama based like battlestar galactica...(witch is what i was afraid of) but it will be nice to see a twist latter on that was perfectly plotted out

Saquist
October 23rd, 2009, 07:36 PM
Yep,

I thought about this and I figured someone would bring it up too. He told Young to fix the lottery, not to specifically send Greer. He also said that everyone will think he has fixed it anyway so why not send who he wants to.

Sure he could have known, and could have been trying to get him to send Greer, but if he really planned to have Greer gone I would think he might have been a little more direct. Its only speculation.

Now, the real question is, if he knew they were going to survive why wouldn't he sabotage the shuttle to keep it? They have one working shuttle and who knows what they might need it for. That's a valuable piece of technology to just let fly away.

Then later, he was trying to save the shuttle. Sure to get supplies back maybe, but why would he care if he "Knew all along" he obviously thought they could do without those supplies or he would have just told them "Hey I think the ship is going to survive" if the supplies were so critical they couldn't survive without them.

Anyway, that's just my take on it. There are more factors, in my opinion, pointing towards him not knowing for sure (But maybe suspecting) them him knowing outright the ship would survive.

- CB

Rush doesn't strike me a TRUE manipulator...more like a scavenger...and opportunist. He didn't press not just because he wasn't completely but because he takes what he's given.

IF Rush wasn't in at least some expectation why is he pissed at the end of the episode? Why would he show it? He's not a True manipulator...he'll take what he's given....

I get the sense that Rush would have like 17 less people on board.

JeffKnight
October 23rd, 2009, 07:42 PM
im starting to think this is going to be more drama based like battlestar galactica...(witch is what i was afraid of) but it will be nice to see a twist latter on that was perfectly plotted out

Yes it is more drama-based, however I don't think it is fair to compare it to BSG. This is still Stargate and, so far, they have at least tried to keep the things that make it Stargate. Now that we've gotten a bit past the "OH NO! We're on an ancient ship with no air, no power, etc." problems for a while, I think you'll start seeing more "action." It won't be exactly like SG1 or SGA but I am mildly optimistic (6 months ago, I wasn't).

Cecil Brax
October 23rd, 2009, 07:43 PM
Rush doesn't strike me a TRUE manipulator...more like a scavenger...and opportunist. He didn't press not just because he wasn't completely but because he takes what he's given.

IF Rush wasn't in at least some expectation why is he pissed at the end of the episode? Why would he show it? He's not a True manipulator...he'll take what he's given....

I get the sense that Rush would have like 17 less people on board.

Well,

I think Rush is pissed at the end of every episode cause he's Rush. hehe.

I could be wrong, but there was alot of evidence pointing towards him not being 'completely' sure that they were going to be destroyed. Were I in his situation, I would have thought/hoped/had faith the ship going towards the star wasn't an accident. I probably would have spoken up though if it were me. Rush just isn't a very nice person.

I completely agree with you about not trusting him. I don't trust him either. He certainly wants his way and wants that ship. As smart as he is though, I think he knows that he can't survive alone.

I said this in another thread, but I totally think the show creators planned that episode to end that way to leave the question open for us to go "Well, I wonder!". That's the best kind of show where at the end it leaves you wondering just what is going to happen next and lets you draw your own conclusions. I am really enjoying SGU.

Thanks for the dicussion, I enjoy discussions too.

- CB

AnonyMoose
October 23rd, 2009, 07:56 PM
After seeing "Light" once (I'll watch it a few more times), I believe that he genuinely thought they were going to die. Once he saw the ship above the sun and realized that they would live, he was euphoric.

However, once his excitement subsided, he felt like a fool for being wrong and having a dramatic nervous breakdown (humiliation is a powerful motivator). His over inflated ego scolded him for not realizing that the ship was designed to feed off the resources of the universe, just as the stargate seeder ships do. Rush is one of those people who loves being in control (being the smartest guy in the room), and hates to admit being wrong, so at the end of the show, he wanted to cover for his mistake by making the others believe that he knew all along that they would live, even if it made him appear calculating and crazy for putting them through this ordeal, and for potentially causing 17 people to be stranded.

PS: I loved the CGI in this episode!

the fifth man
October 23rd, 2009, 07:56 PM
Rush may have had a suspicion, but still, hurling into a star is enough to unnerve even those who believe everything could be ok. After all, the ship is very, very old.

JeffKnight
October 23rd, 2009, 08:00 PM
Rush may have had a suspicion, but still, hurling into a star is enough to unnerve even those who believe everything could be ok. After all, the ship is very, very old.

Exactly.

jsonitsac
October 23rd, 2009, 08:03 PM
No, I don't think Rush knew in advance, otherwise he wouldn't have been freaking out about it in the previous episode nor would he have celebrated like he did in this one. That said, I do think that Rush knows more about Destiny than he's letting on.

Blistna
October 23rd, 2009, 08:11 PM
I think he had some idea, but I don't think he knew for sure. I just think he didn't expect any special treatment, or just doesn't like the food. HAHA

Alteran of Atlantis
October 23rd, 2009, 08:25 PM
To me, it didn't look like he knew. He was just as surprised and happy as anyone when they found out they were going to live. I don't think he would have brought those people back if he had known, he would have just let them continue on, maybe telling Young he "couldn't reach them." So I think he was sincere in not knowing, and you could tell he was relieved when he found out he was wrong about them crashing into the sun.

Still, it's an interesting question. I think I'll follow the debate on this topic.

Shan Bruce Lee
October 23rd, 2009, 08:42 PM
I don't think anybody thought the ship would actually fly into the star. That being said, I'm pretty sure Rush knew it would somehow use the star to recharge. He ran out onto the observation deck shouting "yes yes yes!" as opposed to "I can't believe it!"

Alteran of Atlantis
October 23rd, 2009, 08:47 PM
I don't think anybody thought the ship would actually fly into the star. That being said, I'm pretty sure Rush knew it would somehow use the star to recharge. He ran out onto the observation deck shouting "yes yes yes!" as opposed to "I can't believe it!"

That is very true...but he might not have wanted to take the chance, and be prepared, just in case. At least, that's what I think.

Pharaoh Atem
October 23rd, 2009, 08:48 PM
no

Cecil Brax
October 23rd, 2009, 08:51 PM
I don't think anybody thought the ship would actually fly into the star. That being said, I'm pretty sure Rush knew it would somehow use the star to recharge. He ran out onto the observation deck shouting "yes yes yes!" as opposed to "I can't believe it!"

I have to disagree, on the note that Rush isn't American. There is a language barrier thing between other countries that sometimes makes things hard to interperate. The producers have a few times dropped hints on the way he talks about things being different then say, how McKay would talk about them. Further more "Yes Yes Yes!!" could have meant "I can't believe it!" to him. Also, if I all the sudden was alive after my ancient ship didn't crash into the atmosphere I believe my response would be "Freeking Hell yes! Owned!"

Everyone is different. Plus, I would be more inclined to think he knew if he said "I can't believe it!". Its all relative to one's opinion, which makes the show great because we all can interperate it our own way. It leaves quite a bit to our imagination.

- CB

RJLCyberPunk
October 23rd, 2009, 09:06 PM
He seemed genuinely surprised by the fact that they werent vaporized

I agree! I mean we all know the man has his own agenda but common I was with everyone when they told the general to zip it! :)

LorAsh
October 23rd, 2009, 09:12 PM
Yep,

Sure he could have known, and could have been trying to get him to send Greer, but if he really planned to have Greer gone I would think he might have been a little more direct. Its only speculation.

- CB

Rush does seem to me to be to blunt and brash not to send people he does not like, rather than skirting around the issue.

From only seeing the episode once I would have to speculate that Rush had suspicions that something was going to recharge the power source, but he had no evidence it was going to actually happen. When he saw the shot of the Destiny from the outside, I think it let him see something that made him believe there was hope on getting Destiny powered up again. I think the important thing to remember in all this is how we can all make an educated guess as to what is going to happen in any given situation. Rush is obviously a VERY smart person, but during his meltdown he said that he was robbed of the power he needed to fix the problem. No matter how much you think that it was possible for Destiny to regain power, this course was intentionally set by the ship. All the evidence he had (being inside the ship) would lead him to believe that nothing was going to happen (as no consoles had power to let him think anything was happening) other than a collision course and imminent death.

I think he thought he was dead, and eventually was suprised when they did not die.

Coronach
October 23rd, 2009, 09:14 PM
I think it was quite evident from Rush's reactions that he didn't know. In fact, I don't really think he had an inkling.

I think the way he acted in that scene was simply Rush's style. He doesn't care what people think of him in the end. Furthermore, I'm guessing that Col. Young didn't really think that after he considered it, but his line of "But what if he did?" was more of just a general warning. Essentially, don't trust Rush too much.

All just my interpretation, though :P

Phantom6
October 23rd, 2009, 09:16 PM
I think Rush had an idea but "Knew"? Hell no.

kbtkbt
October 23rd, 2009, 09:19 PM
Agree, Rush wouldn't know and he thought that this is it. The end of it. Fortunately Destiny is running on Solar. That's good. He was so happy about it. NOW the next problem is food & water.

Do think ZPM can be refilled the same way by using Destiny recharging system?

boyd22
October 23rd, 2009, 09:21 PM
i got the feeling that in some way, he knew the ship would survive and made everyone else think otherwise...when he and Young were talking about rigging the lottery, he mentioned Scott and Greer, 2 people he clearly doesn't like...i think he tried to take the opportunity to rid himself of a few people he clearly doesn't like...but, thats just my thoughts...

Avenger
October 23rd, 2009, 09:22 PM
He may have hade an idea, but he had no means to know for sure. Bringing up a theory about the ship might be flying into the star to recharge wouldn't have changed much. The shuttle still would have had to be launched in the event that Rush's inkling wasn't correct.

Pepermint Jaffa
October 23rd, 2009, 09:26 PM
I don't think Rush knew. I don't think he cared about the people on the shuttle, but if he knew the Destiny would be ok, he would have cared about all the supplies they were taking with them. In other words, if he knew, I think he would have said something so that they didn't take all the supplies with them.

sinderg
October 23rd, 2009, 09:30 PM
I liked his little smirk rush expressed at the end when questioned if he knew.
It was like him thinking to this self "i just saved you life and you said you trust me, yet you ask me if i knew all along! things never chance lol"

ckwongau
October 23rd, 2009, 09:31 PM
I think Rsuh suspected some Ancient surprise in the last second, but it doesn't mean he knew they will survive.

Maybe he like people to think he knew , that would make him look smarter.

Franklyn Blaze
October 23rd, 2009, 09:43 PM
He may have had a hunch but knew for sure? Yes he took himself out of the lottery but I can't believe he faked that nervous breakdown in Darkness. If he did he would have had to have known then and I can't believe the writers made him that deceptive.

If he did I was fooled.

Pharaoh Atem
October 23rd, 2009, 09:45 PM
He may have had a hunch but knew for sure? Yes he took himself out of the lottery but I can't believe he faked that nervous breakdown in Darkness.
.

that wasn't fake it was established that he was suffering from withdrawal

Cecil Brax
October 23rd, 2009, 09:51 PM
that wasn't fake it was established that he was suffering from withdrawal

Caffine Withdrawl is a real ... pain too. I went through it as a Kid when I used to drink Coffee all the time cause we were poor. A pot a day, to nothing. I got really sick and was out of my mind for a couple of days.

They actually did it rather well too, though I think he freeked out a little too much. Then again, I only had about a year at that level under my belt, and he may have had 20+. I imagine smoking is much worse.

Another instance of proof how I think he really wasn't sure the ship was going to survive. Doesn't mean he didn't think it might, or hope it would, just that he couldn't have been sure.

- CB

Franklyn Blaze
October 23rd, 2009, 09:58 PM
that wasn't fake it was established that he was suffering from withdrawal

Well if it wasn't fake then he believed what he was saying was true, is what I'm getting at. So he believed they were effed. So then he didn't know.

garhkal
October 23rd, 2009, 10:01 PM
So IMHO, I think that, yeah he had an inkling that something would happen to save their lives, but on the other hand, I don't think he was willing to bet every single one of their lives on one of his wild and crazy ideas (again).

I see rush as being more logical than emotional as carter and Mccay were. So he used logic to suss it out. The ship has been out there for umpteen years, needs to recharge itself periodically. What are the 2 most abundant things out there. Suns and gas planets with hydrogen. BUT i don't think he knew exactly how it was going to happen, and whether their messing with the ship dicked it over.


His excitement didn't seem very authentic to me. It seemed more like he was excited that he was right, rather than incorrect. It did seem like he was expecting it from the moment he went out to look at the star (he didn't really seem surprised).

Agreed. I have seen some workers come up with off the wall stuff, which actually worked. And their expression was almost a mirror of his. He figured something was going on, but did not believe it was going to happen. And was surprised when it did.


Honestly, if he said that it just looked like they were going to fly into the star, but were really just going to skim it to refuel, would any of the others have believed him?

Good point. With how they all treated him up to now, i seriously doubt they would have given him the time of day.


Especially when Eli showed them the Destiny with the Kino.

Good point. I wonder if he saw something in that [pic] that gave him an idea of what might be coming.



However, once his excitement subsided, he felt like a fool for being wrong and having a dramatic nervous breakdown (humiliation is a powerful motivator). His over inflated ego scolded him for not realizing that the ship was designed to feed off the resources of the universe, just as the stargate seeder ships do. Rush is one of those people who loves being in control (being the smartest guy in the room), and hates to admit being wrong, so at the end of the show, he wanted to cover for his mistake by making the others believe that he knew all along that they would live

Interesting hypothesis. I know from personal experience getting a massive 'taking down a knotch' cam make you reassess things you always thought were right.

Rush Fan
October 23rd, 2009, 10:22 PM
As form what we saw in last week's episode Rush is not one to apologies if he does not think he has to. So I for one do not see why he would apologies to Eli for bring him along if Rush knew that they were not going to die.

GoodSmeagol
October 23rd, 2009, 10:43 PM
Rush knew the ship would be fine.
He wants control of Destiny 100%.

He attempts to get Young to fix the lottery, knowing everyone would return.
Not knowing the ship would speed up as it did, which is why he got the comm working. He knew he needed the supplies and the crew.
But if Young had fixed the lottery, unrest would have risen against Young.
Causing decent among the ranks, giving Rush the power he wants.

Thoughts?

Pharaoh Atem
October 23rd, 2009, 10:44 PM
my thoughts

there's already two threads did we need a third ??

Stabby
October 23rd, 2009, 11:17 PM
To be honest, I don't think it matters.

The crew was better for it. Facing death in such a way, and dealing with it have allowed the crew to put aside their differences and come to terms with their situation and the nature of it. It also put the crew into a new perspective: happy to be alive, rather than pissed off that they can't get home.

I personally could see that Rush had a hunch that the Destiny might use the sun to recharge, but he couldn't have been sure. To rob the crew of that chance of getting on the shuttle based on a hunch would have had a really negative impact.

Ouroboros
October 23rd, 2009, 11:19 PM
Rush knew the ship would be fine.
He wants control of Destiny 100%.

He attempts to get Young to fix the lottery, knowing everyone would return.
Not knowing the ship would speed up as it did, which is why he got the comm working. He knew he needed the supplies and the crew.
But if Young had fixed the lottery, unrest would have risen against Young.
Causing decent among the ranks, giving Rush the power he wants.

Thoughts?

If he'd successfully convinced Young to load the shuttle with all his "picks" to he could have "accidentally" done something like activated the shield or FTL when they were trying to dock and splattered/stranded them all leaving him with only a discredited Young himself to deal with.

If it really was a sinister Machiavellian plot it was a pretty decent one. Rush is easily my favorite character by a mile.

AnonyMoose
October 23rd, 2009, 11:39 PM
I enjoyed this episode, especially the special effects and the emotional moments. Greer's moments were a highlight. I did not care for the fast Scott/Chloe hookup, or the Rush head fake at the end because it put a damper on the jubilant mood. Enough has been said about Scott/Chloe, so this is my revised character analysis of Rush:

After seeing it a second time, I am certain that Rush genuinely thought they were going to die. When he realized that too much time had passed without any ill effects, and he saw that a control console was powered up, then finally that the ship was above the sun, he felt euphoric at the prospect that they would live, and that his opportunity to gain control of Destiny would continue.

However, later, once his excitement subsided, he felt foolish for being wrong. Humiliation is a powerful motivator for most people. Rush is one of those people who loves being in control. He thrives on being the smartest guy in the room and detests being wrong. His over-inflated ego scolded him for not realizing earlier that the ship was designed to feed off the resources of the universe, just as the stargate seeder ships do. At the end of the show, he still felt embarrassed and upset at himself, as demonstrated by his irritable demeanor. He didn't want to join the group and get teased about his mistake just like they were teasing Scott, so during the conversation with Young, he jumped at an opportunity to cover for his mistake by creating some ambiguity in everyone's minds, even at the risk of making himself appear calculating and crazy for putting them through this ordeal that could have potentially stranded 17 people, lost the shuttle, and all the supplies.

Infy
October 23rd, 2009, 11:50 PM
He knew, and went back to his room to relax and read a book while everyone else sweated over their fate. He looked at his watch because he felt it was time to put on his show for the others that they were going to survive after all

Marsuvees
October 23rd, 2009, 11:58 PM
No, I don't think he was certain. Otherwise he would not have asked for Young to handpick the people. He may have thought there was a possibility, but he did not want that opportunity for them to be killed needlessly.

SBN
October 23rd, 2009, 11:59 PM
I enjoyed this episode, especially the special effects and the emotional moments. Greer's moments were a highlight. I did not care for the fast Scott/Chloe hookup, and the Rush head fake at the end because it put a damper on the jubilant mood. Enough has been said about Scott/Chloe, so this is my revised character analysis of Rush:

After seeing it a second time, I am certain that Rush genuinely thought they were going to die. When he realized that too much time had passed without any ill effects, then he saw that a control console was powered up, and finally that the ship was above the sun, he felt euphoric at the prospect that they would live, and that his opportunity with Destiny would continue.

However, once his excitement subsided, he felt like a fool for being wrong. Humiliation is a powerful motivator for most people. Rush is one of those people who loves being in control. He thrives on being the smartest guy in the room and detests being wrong. His over-inflated ego scolded him for not realizing earlier that the ship was designed to feed off the resources of the universe, just as the stargate seeder ships do. At the end of the show, he still felt embarrassed and upset at himself, as demonstrated by his irritable demeanor, so during the conversation with Young, he jumped at an opportunity to cover for his mistake by creating some ambiguity in the everyone's minds, even at the risk of making himself appear calculating and crazy for putting them through this ordeal that could have potentially stranded 17 people, lost the shuttle, and all the supplies.

Wow, damn good analysis. I think especially this last paragraph explains everything.

morph147
October 24th, 2009, 12:14 AM
I enjoyed this episode, especially the special effects and the emotional moments. Greer's moments were a highlight. I did not care for the fast Scott/Chloe hookup, and the Rush head fake at the end because it put a damper on the jubilant mood. Enough has been said about Scott/Chloe, so this is my revised character analysis of Rush:

After seeing it a second time, I am certain that Rush genuinely thought they were going to die. When he realized that too much time had passed without any ill effects, then he saw that a control console was powered up, and finally that the ship was above the sun, he felt euphoric at the prospect that they would live, and that his opportunity with Destiny would continue.

However, once his excitement subsided, he felt like a fool for being wrong. Humiliation is a powerful motivator for most people. Rush is one of those people who loves being in control. He thrives on being the smartest guy in the room and detests being wrong. His over-inflated ego scolded him for not realizing earlier that the ship was designed to feed off the resources of the universe, just as the stargate seeder ships do. At the end of the show, he still felt embarrassed and upset at himself, as demonstrated by his irritable demeanor, so during the conversation with Young, he jumped at an opportunity to cover for his mistake by creating some ambiguity in the everyone's minds, even at the risk of making himself appear calculating and crazy for putting them through this ordeal that could have potentially stranded 17 people, lost the shuttle, and all the supplies.

yes i have to semi agree with you on this. their is one thing i think you should note though on this. everyone is still upset at rush and blames him for them all being on destiny in the first place. so if his name had been in the lottery, and he had gotten on the ship, what do you think most peoples reaction would have been. most people would have blamed him for their deaths as he walks away and gets to live. so then the people who did get to go on the shuttle have now landed on their new planet and trying to survive. what do you think is going to happen between the whole group and rush. well everyone is going to shun him and basically want nothing to do with him because they too will blame him for everyone deaths. i think rush was intelligent enough to realize that either way in the end he wouldn't have had long to lived so therefore it would be easier to withdraw from the lottery and just stay put.

it does show that he is still a little shunned. where did he go once the shuttle took off? his room. why? because he didnt want people to be blaming him and doing something like just killing him before the star could do it. so far you can see that he is a loner. loners are more happier being somewhere by themselves than around tons of people anyways.

also lets say that he did know. lets think of it this way. if you were on a spaceship and flying toward a star and going to go right into it, would u really believe the guy who put you on the ship that u cant escape from already and already blame for making your life insane that you would be fine because the ship was somehow solar powered and needed to be closer to the sun to get the max juice it required. knowing me, i probably wouldnt have believed him at all. instead i would have tried to save my hide by doing the whole lottery thing to get on the shuttle.

so in the end of my argument. did rush know in the beginning? doubtful probably due to he hadn't figured out where the ship got its energy from (since obviously going faster than the speed of light would be using a little more energy than just keeping a shield up to protect a city from water). however a lot of the things he did after that was to keep his own hide alive and at the the time the best place he figured was just to stay on the ship and hope a miracle happens like everyone else does.

eliteaceman
October 24th, 2009, 12:42 AM
Rush gained nothing by lying about it.... i don't think he knew

Uncle Tobias
October 24th, 2009, 12:51 AM
I'm pretty certain he didn't know, but it is an interesting debate.

Khentkawes
October 24th, 2009, 12:54 AM
I do not think Rush knew. Actually, I was irritated with Col. Young for implying it and planting that doubt in everyone's mind. He should have kept that suspicion to himself. By announcing it, all he did was create more mistrust and suspicion, which IMO is a bad thing (and a bad leadership decision).

I agree with what others have said: if Rush had known they were going to live, he wouldn't have allowed valuable supplies or the shuttle to leave. And if he was trying to get rid of people (because he wanted less people on the Destiny), then he wouldn't have been so quick to find a way to bring the shuttle back. It was the first thing he did when the systems came back online, even before Young told him to contact the shuttle.

I personally found his surprise very convincing. His first look of surprise was in the control room before he went up to the flight deck to look out the window. He was alone in the control room, and he looked surprised. If he had known all along, then why would he fake surprise then? Wouldn't he just give a smug grin? When I re-watched that scene on the flight deck (I love sci-fi's late repeats :)), I noticed how much Rush was smiling. I don't think we've ever seen Rush smile before. Certainly, not that much. So his surprise and happiness looked genuine to me.

As for Rush's negativity in the final scene... I think there were two things going on there. First, Rush was being realistic. He's blunt to the point of rudeness, so it's not surprising that he would spoil the good mood by mentioning that they are still facing a lot of problems. That's the reality of the situation. But I think Rush was also trying to distance himself from the crew. We've seen some severely anti-social behavior from Rush so far (he had no desire to be stranded "on a rock with a bunch of strangers," and he flinched when Young slapped him on the back), and I think he was uncomfortable with the idea of being so familiar and relaxed with the rest of the crew. I get the impression that he's been a loner and an outsider for a long time, and the idea of breaking that isolation by joining the others for a friendly meal seemed very uncomfortable to him. So he pushed people away as quickly and firmly as possible, not particularly caring if it made them suspicious of him.

The last scene was also a nice parallel to the meal in Air, where Rush was also on the outside looking in. Eventually, he might be comfortable enough to join the crew... but not yet. And from Young's reaction, the crew isn't comfortable with Rush yet either.

Eternal Density
October 24th, 2009, 01:10 AM
The idea of him knowing crossed my mind before seeing this ep actually. I think he suspected, perhaps hoped, but didn't know for sure, due to not being able to access the main systems and all that. And I guess he didn't let on in case it was a false hope.

It make sense that he suspected but couldn't know for certain, because I'm sure he's smart enough that the thought did occur to him. If he never once considered that the ship might be doing it on purpose that would disappoint me.

AnonyMoose
October 24th, 2009, 01:14 AM
Wow, damn good analysis. I think especially this last paragraph explains everything.

Thanks!

Lord Shiva
October 24th, 2009, 01:18 AM
He didn't know, he just doesn't want people to like him for some reason. Maybe it has to do with the picture he stares at - maybe he feels responsible for something in the past and doesn't want anyone to see him in any heroic light.

andr3w_iii
October 24th, 2009, 01:30 AM
I do not think he really knew what was going to happen, maybe that was said deliberate to raise suspicion and distrust in rush, but think he was more interested in getting back the supplies than the people in the shuttle that has to be a given.

DigiFluid
October 24th, 2009, 01:33 AM
I'm reasonably sure he suspected, but I don't think he knew.

Cold Fuzz
October 24th, 2009, 01:36 AM
I do not think he really knew what was going to happen, maybe that was said deliberate to raise suspicion and distrust in rush, but think he was more interested in getting back the supplies than the people in the shuttle that has to be a given.


I'm reasonably sure he suspected, but I don't think he knew.

Copy that. I think Rush probably suspected that the Destiny might do something to refuel itself but he had no proof. They're locked out of the primary systems so there was no way to be certain. He wasn't absolutely sure until he finished reading that book and realized that they should have been dead already. Then he went and checked the power systems.

I think Young suspecting that Rush knew merely shows the true level of distrust that's there.

Joben
October 24th, 2009, 01:39 AM
I think that having Rush do an about-face on his attitude and Young reading him like that in the last minute of the episode was a really poor way to finish it. The series seems like one in which the writers want to work in a twist or a cliffhanger at the end of every episode, but I think they had a perfect opportunity to wrap it up there and have a really decent self-contained story that didn't have Rush's character development thrown away in the last minute.

Neon Tiger
October 24th, 2009, 02:36 AM
They played it just right. They could take it either way and the audience would go along with it. There's enough material there to suspect Rush knew and enough to suspect he did not. The story did not commit either way. Smart, leaving the writers plenty of options with Rush's character, which IMO is the most interesting character so far.

My first post! Who-hooo!!!

Commander Zelix
October 24th, 2009, 02:36 AM
I don't think he knew for sure. He has no advantage to hide it from the others. Anyway we see him act surprised to see the power back WHILE HE WAS ALONE.

pipi
October 24th, 2009, 02:59 AM
I believe he had a guess that refueling was a very low possibility but he couldn't confirm or prove it, so why have the death of the either expedition on your conscience. And since they were locked out of the system and couldn't do anything about it anyway, being a non peoples person he was already resigned to the fact that he will stay on the ship live or die and just gave up.

Rush only helps himself.

Edi
October 24th, 2009, 03:43 AM
I think he had a hint after he saw the Destiny from the outside.
He might have sawed something about the Destiny that suggested they might refuel. Because it happened after they launched the shuttle, it would explain some things about his behaviour...
Just look at his face when he sees it - he has that almost McKay face, when he figures something out.

Joben
October 24th, 2009, 04:05 AM
I think he had a hint after he saw the Destiny from the outside.

Yeah that's true, I'd forgotten about that moment, I'd thought he was going to suddenly realise then but nothing happened.

Either way he'd already given up his place on the shuttle though

Solokiller
October 24th, 2009, 04:16 AM
Yeah, when he saw the exterior he got a sort of eureka moment, but couldn't confirm it, so he did suspect it, but couldn't risk everybody's lives.

thekillman
October 24th, 2009, 05:17 AM
i think that he knew the possibility existed but did not expect it to actually happen.

he did kind of let it all happen. in the way that, he didnt intervene or work on a solution. he just went to....read a book, then calmly went to the nexus room and laughed.

nxcalibur
October 24th, 2009, 05:31 AM
I think he had a hint after he saw the Destiny from the outside.
He might have sawed something about the Destiny that suggested they might refuel. Because it happened after they launched the shuttle, it would explain some things about his behaviour...
Just look at his face when he sees it - he has that almost McKay face, when he figures something out.

Yep, that was exactly my thought. He had a clue, when he saw Destiny from the outside. Maybe he was gathering some information on the Destiny before the systems went down and after seeing the outside he draw his own conclusions. But with the systems down, he had no way of checking.
I think that by the time he finished his book he felt his thoughts confirmed that something was going on and he checked for that main console which was back online showing the energy (in whatever kind) already gathered.

Heart of Light
October 24th, 2009, 06:56 AM
Honestly, didn't we all know? It was so darn predictable, Rush would have been really stupid not to at least expect there might be more to flying to the sun. The only unpredictable part was going through the sun and getting so darn close without turbulence (and the fact that the ship saved energy for the shields), so that would explain the surprise we saw on Rush' face.

I guess he just realised there should have been turbulence and intense heat already, and he was surprised to find out there were still shields. He probably expected to survive, but not before having a hell of a ride.

KEK
October 24th, 2009, 07:23 AM
I'm sure he suspected, the comment he made about Greer first tipped me off, him and 'captain marvel' are two people he probably wouldn't mind getting rid of, and I doubt he'd suggest Greer as the second chosen member for any other reason.

Bebbe777
October 24th, 2009, 07:28 AM
He might have had a clue but he didn't want to place a bet on it. Therefore he didn't stop the shuttle launch because he might be wrong. But he stayed on the ship incase he might be right which he wished.

Veleiro
October 24th, 2009, 08:29 AM
I believe that Rush knew. He is described as a Machiavellian scientist in the series, and I think that this is his way to demonstrate that he works in mysterious ways. I think this was ultimately a way of showing us that he is in control of what happens.

He let it get out of control on purpose, allowing everyone to believe that they would die and that only 17 would be saved with supplies, in order to make everyone believe that he is not a coward (by taking his name out of the lottery) and that he is the savior (got back the shuttle and the suppies), while at the same time demonstrating to them that he doesnt ever allow himself the celebration of success (as celebrating with the rest at the end).

He knew of its solar recharging abilities (maybe not completely how, probably from an educated guess of how the ship has survived so long and why it would go towards the sun), however he used the situation to his advantage and indirectly put other lives at risk.

He doesnt like Greer as they are polar opposites, Grear: military, loyal, not brilliant like Rush: Scientist, loyal only to himself, and brilliant.. So maybe the suggestion to fix the lottery was in his knowing that the colonel would like to pick Greer as well as the other two. With or without losing these supplies and the people, I am certain that Rush believes the ship is their ultimate provider, so losing the shuttle with people and supplies wouldnt have been a big loss if he wasnt able to get them back.

What yall think bout them apples? :sheppardanime23:

aboleyn24
October 24th, 2009, 08:38 AM
After seeing "Light" once (I'll watch it a few more times), I believe that he genuinely thought they were going to die. Once he saw the ship above the sun and realized that they would live, he was euphoric.

However, once his excitement subsided, he felt like a fool for being wrong and having a dramatic nervous breakdown (humiliation is a powerful motivator). His over inflated ego scolded him for not realizing that the ship was designed to feed off the resources of the universe, just as the stargate seeder ships do. Rush is one of those people who loves being in control (being the smartest guy in the room), and hates to admit being wrong, so at the end of the show, he wanted to cover for his mistake by making the others believe that he knew all along that they would live, even if it made him appear calculating and crazy for putting them through this ordeal, and for potentially causing 17 people to be stranded.

PS: I loved the CGI in this episode!

Thank you. I love this theory. I have to tell you it really bothered. Not so much that he may have known but that had he gone through all the trouble to pull off the elaborate charade of not knowing he would then go and possibly give himself away. That made no sense to me so I like this theory so much better. I can better accept that Rush didn't know, that he is very uncomfortable in social situations and his attitude caused Young to suspect him. If this is true it actually tells up more about Young then Rush and that would be crafty storytelling indeed. I do have my doubts that such a well thought out notion will come to pass though.



I do not think Rush knew. Actually, I was irritated with Col. Young for implying it and planting that doubt in everyone's mind. He should have kept that suspicion to himself. By announcing it, all he did was create more mistrust and suspicion, which IMO is a bad thing (and a bad leadership decision).

I agree with what others have said: if Rush had known they were going to live, he wouldn't have allowed valuable supplies or the shuttle to leave. And if he was trying to get rid of people (because he wanted less people on the Destiny), then he wouldn't have been so quick to find a way to bring the shuttle back. It was the first thing he did when the systems came back online, even before Young told him to contact the shuttle.

I personally found his surprise very convincing. His first look of surprise was in the control room before he went up to the flight deck to look out the window. He was alone in the control room, and he looked surprised. If he had known all along, then why would he fake surprise then? Wouldn't he just give a smug grin? When I re-watched that scene on the flight deck (I love sci-fi's late repeats :)), I noticed how much Rush was smiling. I don't think we've ever seen Rush smile before. Certainly, not that much. So his surprise and happiness looked genuine to me.

As for Rush's negativity in the final scene... I think there were two things going on there. First, Rush was being realistic. He's blunt to the point of rudeness, so it's not surprising that he would spoil the good mood by mentioning that they are still facing a lot of problems. That's the reality of the situation. But I think Rush was also trying to distance himself from the crew. We've seen some severely anti-social behavior from Rush so far (he had no desire to be stranded "on a rock with a bunch of strangers," and he flinched when Young slapped him on the back), and I think he was uncomfortable with the idea of being so familiar and relaxed with the rest of the crew. I get the impression that he's been a loner and an outsider for a long time, and the idea of breaking that isolation by joining the others for a friendly meal seemed very uncomfortable to him. So he pushed people away as quickly and firmly as possible, not particularly caring if it made them suspicious of him.

The last scene was also a nice parallel to the meal in Air, where Rush was also on the outside looking in. Eventually, he might be comfortable enough to join the crew... but not yet. And from Young's reaction, the crew isn't comfortable with Rush yet either.

I really like this take on the scene as well. I would much rather this be the case then he knew all along because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense motivations wise. It seems an awfully big scheme to just get rid of a few bothersome people at the expense of necessary supplies. Then to go to all the trouble and be the one to find a way to bring them back. Why? Because he didn't get the right people on the shuttle that he wanted off his ship? No, I'm not buying that. I don't think he knew.


I think that having Rush do an about-face on his attitude and Young reading him like that in the last minute of the episode was a really poor way to finish it. The series seems like one in which the writers want to work in a twist or a cliffhanger at the end of every episode, but I think they had a perfect opportunity to wrap it up there and have a really decent self-contained story that didn't have Rush's character development thrown away in the last minute.


If in fact Rush knew then I agree with you completely. Taking Young at his word there almost ruined the episode for me. It felt forced and unnecessary. But if the viewpoints of the others I've quoted come true then I have a different opinion. If in fact its Young being suspicious and Rush just being awkward and anti social then it could create some real dramatic tension. Much better to have your supposed good guy in charge hero (Young) turn out to be really wrong and possibly creating a worse trust issue then already exsists. I would be mildly impressed if it comes to pass.

IcarusAbides
October 24th, 2009, 08:49 AM
I think that Rush had to know or at the very least have a theory on why the Destiny was heading into the sun, perhaps he didn't want to risk more lives on a hunch. I know people have suggested that he did this to rid the crew of people he didnt like but it was his idea to use the slingshot to get them back, without that manouevre they would have died. he had no need to suggest the slingshot if he didnt want to save them.

missmobius
October 24th, 2009, 09:05 AM
While I am sure he had some idea churning in his head about how the ship got more power - even ZPMs would have been depleted by now, and he knows that ship predates that technology by many thousands of years if not longer - I am not sure if he was 100% sure. Seriously, I think we are ignoring that Rush is a much deeper character than he so far has presented. He is extremely intelligent, emotionally handicapped, socially unstable in a manner that would make Rodney look absolutely normal, but yet, I feel there is something more to him. While he has been "right" quite often, I think they are setting him up to be the anti-Carter/anti-Rodney. No matter what, when one of those two suggested something in SG1/SGA we went with it. Here, we aren't so easy to trust Rush, and someday that may really bite us in the ass. I think that is the way TPTB want it.

So IMHO, I think that, yeah he had an inkling that something would happen to save their lives, but on the other hand, I don't think he was willing to bet every single one of their lives on one of his wild and crazy ideas (again).

Of course, I could be wrong and he could just be a sadist who wanted to see the others put through the proverbial wringer and possibly hoping that some of the crazier nut jobs (like the IOA woman) would be "lost", but that would mean his character is less deep than I know him to be.

ITA, I think you're right on the money with your analysis of his being a genius and an anti carter/mckay type.

IMO he DID NOT KNOW 100% that the ship would refuel in the sun's corona, and I have somewhat of some proof about it.

When at the end Young tells him "maybe you knew" he answers "Cheers", unless you're British (or watch lots of BBC TV) you would not know that "cheers" means "Thank You", so therefore when Young (who up until the end had been learning to TRUST Rush) distrusts him by questioning whether he knew, and Rush answers "THANKS",

read between the lines, Rush says "THANKS" like to imply thanks a lot, you were trusting me and I thought you had changed and here you go again not trusting me, so THANKS for being your paranoid self.

Okay it's my take on it, but try to see the scene with the word CHEERS replaced with THANKS and you'll see what I mean.

Stormtrooper
October 24th, 2009, 09:09 AM
Yep, Rush suspected Destiny wouldn't let them down, as did most of the viewers, but he was not certain about it. After all, the ship is not in perfect shape and something could go terribly wrong.

missmobius
October 24th, 2009, 09:11 AM
im starting to think this is going to be more drama based like battlestar galactica...(witch is what i was afraid of) but it will be nice to see a twist latter on that was perfectly plotted out

Since I liked BSG (no, not as much as SG1) I'm okay with it as long as they show the gate being used more often, and keep the stupid lame sex scenes to next to non-existent.

Arwis
October 24th, 2009, 09:24 AM
Rush may have had a suspicion, but still, hurling into a star is enough to unnerve even those who believe everything could be ok. After all, the ship is very, very old.

I think the same. He may suspected something but still idea of going directly to sun is kinda crazy.

General Jumper One
October 24th, 2009, 09:50 AM
I think he knew, but how did he?:mckay:

aream2000
October 24th, 2009, 09:51 AM
i dont think rush knew he might have had an theory in the last few hours but ultimately he was suprised, i think he just didnt want other people to know he was suprised,

Kaiphantom
October 24th, 2009, 09:55 AM
I do not think Rush knew. Actually, I was irritated with Col. Young for implying it and planting that doubt in everyone's mind. He should have kept that suspicion to himself. By announcing it, all he did was create more mistrust and suspicion, which IMO is a bad thing (and a bad leadership decision).

I agree with what others have said: if Rush had known they were going to live, he wouldn't have allowed valuable supplies or the shuttle to leave. And if he was trying to get rid of people (because he wanted less people on the Destiny), then he wouldn't have been so quick to find a way to bring the shuttle back. It was the first thing he did when the systems came back online, even before Young told him to contact the shuttle.

I personally found his surprise very convincing. His first look of surprise was in the control room before he went up to the flight deck to look out the window. He was alone in the control room, and he looked surprised. If he had known all along, then why would he fake surprise then? Wouldn't he just give a smug grin? When I re-watched that scene on the flight deck (I love sci-fi's late repeats :)), I noticed how much Rush was smiling. I don't think we've ever seen Rush smile before. Certainly, not that much. So his surprise and happiness looked genuine to me.

As for Rush's negativity in the final scene... I think there were two things going on there. First, Rush was being realistic. He's blunt to the point of rudeness, so it's not surprising that he would spoil the good mood by mentioning that they are still facing a lot of problems. That's the reality of the situation. But I think Rush was also trying to distance himself from the crew. We've seen some severely anti-social behavior from Rush so far (he had no desire to be stranded "on a rock with a bunch of strangers," and he flinched when Young slapped him on the back), and I think he was uncomfortable with the idea of being so familiar and relaxed with the rest of the crew. I get the impression that he's been a loner and an outsider for a long time, and the idea of breaking that isolation by joining the others for a friendly meal seemed very uncomfortable to him. So he pushed people away as quickly and firmly as possible, not particularly caring if it made them suspicious of him.

The last scene was also a nice parallel to the meal in Air, where Rush was also on the outside looking in. Eventually, he might be comfortable enough to join the crew... but not yet. And from Young's reaction, the crew isn't comfortable with Rush yet either.

Re-quoting this, because I think it best shows what I feel the situation is. Also, bolding an important part there. Rush was alone, thus no need to fake anything. Occam's Razor: The simplest explanation is usually correct.

As a scientist, Rush has a logical mind. I have one, too, so I can really feel I know what's going through his head. At best, he might have suspected that Destiny was going to recharge somehow, but he couldn't be sure. Destiny had come through for them before.

So the sneakiest reason I can come up with, is that he was growing sick of people giving him a hard time. Giving up his lottery shot was a good way to get people to think more highly of him. He also probably didn't think that people would believe him, anyway. I mean, Young almost accused him of shutting down the systems last episode.

Honestly, as the rest of the crew said to Young, "Let it go."

Dain
October 24th, 2009, 10:07 AM
So the sneakiest reason I can come up with, is that he was growing sick of people giving him a hard time. Giving up his lottery shot was a good way to get people to think more highly of him. He also probably didn't think that people would believe him, anyway. I mean, Young almost accused him of shutting down the systems last episode.

Honestly, as the rest of the crew said to Young, "Let it go."

Exactly. Over the course of the entire episode, Rush was trying to get into everyone's good books. Just look how he visibly restrained himself during most conversations, trying to always remain calm and friendly and how forced it appeared at times.

Rush was as surprised as everyone else about their rescue. I mean, we saw him being surprised and overjoyed. Why should he fake that? He probably hoped that the ship had brought them here on purpose and would survive somehow, but he certainly didn't know it for certain.

The last scene just serves to show that the distrust against Rush is still continuing. And, of course, that of all people onboard, Young is perhaps one of the most prejudiced, despite always appearing to smoothe things over.

syfygal47
October 24th, 2009, 10:08 AM
I am not convinced Rush knew. Why would he have let the people go on the shuttle if he knew? I think that the characters who spoke about this, notably Young, should have kept their mouths shut. They have now placed doubt in the minds of the rest of the crew about Rush, and this is certainly not needed.

Alder
October 24th, 2009, 10:23 AM
Having just watched it, I'm going for "he suspected, but didn't know". He was just too pleased in the control room.
And if he'd known, he'd've been more likely to be telling everyone, and insisting that he was right, and saying they didn't need to bother with the shuttle, the Destiny would take care of them etc.

I *am* a little ticked off with him for his subsequent behaviour - I rather liked the interaction earlier in the episode where Rush and Young seemed to be coming to an understanding - say a truce rather than outright hostility - and to have it back where it was before is a tad irritating...

Nemises
October 24th, 2009, 11:47 AM
He didn't know.

The writers want him not to be liked too much.

Otarush
October 24th, 2009, 12:07 PM
I think he had a hunch (he seems to have a pretty good intuitive read on that ship, remember the 'signs' that they were running out of power?) but I don't think he knew for certain. He did seem quite surprised and happy that they were still alive.

ndeke
October 24th, 2009, 01:08 PM
I would say the writers succeeded in making the issue totally ambiguous at least from the clues we got. For example what some people believe to be Rush's sudden insight midway through the episode could just as well really be a reaction to seeing what he considered his destiny, pun intended. I do believe it can go both ways and a number of people have made interesting arguments for and against him knowing. While I would love to call it with a smart observation, I don't think that it is possible, again, from the clues we got.

From a meta perspective I would argue that if he truly knew, wouldn't that make Rush more cruel than he is intended to be as a character? I understand they want him to be flawed and manipulative but not sadistic. While he will go to any length to achieve his goals, he is not in principal ill-disposed towards other people. So if one wants to argue that he knew what was going to happen, one needs a convincing explanation of what he gained but not telling.

aboleyn24
October 24th, 2009, 01:28 PM
I would say the writers succeeded in making the issue totally ambiguous at least from the clues we got. For example what some people believe to be Rush's sudden insight midway through the episode could just as well really be a reaction to seeing what he considered his destiny, pun intended. I do believe it can go both ways and a number of people have made interesting arguments for and against him knowing. While I would love to call it with a smart observation, I don't think that it is possible, again, from the clues we got.

From a meta perspective I would argue that if he truly knew, wouldn't that make Rush more cruel than he is intended to be as a character? I understand they want him to be flawed and manipulative but not sadistic. While he will go to any length to achieve his goals, he is not in principal ill-disposed towards other people. So if one wants to argue that he knew what was going to happen, one needs a convincing explanation of what he gained but not telling.



Exactly. Why go to the trouble and then more importantly why give yourself away? Unless I can see a clear reason for either I have to conclude that he didn't know.

flameling
October 24th, 2009, 02:13 PM
I don't think he did. He seemed to surprised that they hadn't completely disentegrated. I agree that he may have had a hunch and the entire fiasco at the end was embarresment, but he was alone and then showed surprised. I don't believe that he knew.

Commander Zelix
October 24th, 2009, 02:17 PM
I still don't get whats the big deal about him knowing or not. What advantage does he have to hide it from others?

Sifr
October 24th, 2009, 02:17 PM
Look at it from the point of view of the Ancients.

You don't build a super-duper spaceship that you then send off on its own to seed the universe with Stargates for millions of years on end without having some idea of how on earth its going to keep working after all that time.

Its unmanned and has no access to shipyards, and its supposed to keep itself operational and also have the power requirements to maintain the FTL drive, manufacture stargates, power the stargate, and presumably manufacture kino's for analysis of already seeded worlds.

This is definitely a LONG term project. So you'd look at it pragmatically.

Whats the most abundant element in the Universe...?

Hydrogen. Presumably Destiny would have some form of Bussard Collector onboard that it could utilise for fuel for minor systems power generation.

Whats the most abundant energy source in the Universe?

Suns. Using a sun itself as fuel is the most logical form of power generation, its got untapped and nigh on limiteless energy, will be around for billions of years, its just like pitstopping at the petrol station.

Its not like they're rare either, most systems have more than one sun... What would you like Destiny? Diesel, or Unleaded?

Rush is smart enough to figure out that this is a distinct possibility on board a ship as old and specifically built such as this. He most likely had a hunch that such a thing would happen, but he didn't want to say anything before because if he was wrong about it then they'd all die...

His taking himself off the Lottery was simply because he'd rather stick around and see if his hunch paid off, and if it didn't, then what was the worst that could happen? Rush already seems semi-suicidal. Look at the evidence.

In Air Part 1, he dials a 9th Chevron that could lead anyone anywhere, with a rather pithy excuse that dialling Earth could have made the explosion go back and destroy the planet... it could easily have come back through on the other side of the 9th address too?

In Air Part 2 he doesn't seem particularly bothered the Senator dies, he was on his way out, and he pretty much thinks at this point, they're all dead anyway.

In Part 3, he doesn't seem too concerned that its looking incredibly futile they're find a lake, he just complains they aren't looking hard enough.

And in Darkness, he doesn't bother telling anyone the reason why not to keep pressing buttons, instead, yelling at them, and then going rather off the deep end when everything goes to pot and the power goes.

His mood at the end of Light where he seems to keep pushing everyone's buttons kinda makes me think he's got some kind of death wish in some form.

MerryGentry
October 24th, 2009, 02:26 PM
I believe he had some notion that the Destiny might be working out its survival on its own, as it had been doing thus far, but I truly don't believe he was sure about anything specific. I, too, think his delight in the observation room was genuine. I don't think the presence of anyone proves the genuiness......when he first glanced at the restored control panel, he smiled and began a bit of delighted laughter. He seemed honestly surprised at how the ship was going to save itself.
Who would have believed any ship, even one engineered by Ancients, could have survived "surfing" a star, as someone said it above?

But, Rush is still enigmatic. He knows Young really has no use for him and even dislikes him, and I think he realizes there's no trust there. So why try to reassure Young? He walked away because he knew no one would believe him totally anyway, so why bother?

I watch the program for Rush. He is an amazingly complex character, and I hope he continues to be so.:vala:

StarFighter
October 24th, 2009, 02:26 PM
I really don't think Rush knew they would live. The scenes were pretty clear that Rush expected to die and was very surprised that they didn't. The reaction scenes happened when he was alone so it was a genuine shock not Rush acting shocked.

I believe the comment by Young at the end of the episode about Rush possibly knowing was just there to show how much they question or distrust Rush.

Trance
October 24th, 2009, 02:34 PM
I think he knew it was possible for the Destiny to recharge but thought her systems were too depleted from everyone's arrival and "running around" to be able to recharge. I think the bigger issue is his relationship with Destiny.
To me it seems to me that Rush is in love/obsessed with Destiny.
When her power was going out he kept saying that she was pulling away from him, and that everyone's running around and not listening to him was hurting the ship.
He is only interested in other people when they can help him with the ship or help him stay longer on the ship.
He would rather die with her than leave her.
He was the one who said her name was Destiny, but no one else has bothered to look.
He wasn't even aware that Eli was going to send the Kino out of the ship though everyone else was, because he rather spend time with the ship. But when he got to see the outside of the ship it was a loving look. He even thought he would never get to see the outside of her.
I think he stayed on the ship because he couldn't bear to leave his Destiny, and he was so happy because his trust in her and willingness not to leave her was rewarded.
I keep thinking that if he has to choose between the ship and the crew he'll choose Destiny. And if Eli figures out Destiny's deep secrets before he does and tells everyone else he'll get mad at Eli.
Destiny seems to be his lady.

P-90_177
October 24th, 2009, 02:42 PM
You know Rush is starting to remind me of Locke in lost. Has his own agenda and has faith in the ship just in the same way locke has faith in the island.

Trance
October 24th, 2009, 02:49 PM
I think that Rush knew that Destiny had the ability to recharge but thought that she was too depleted by their arrival to still do it. I think his relationship with the ship is the main reason he took himself out of the lottery.
He said her name was Destiny and that she was his destiny.
When her power was going down he said she was pulling away from him and didn't seem to care how others reacted to the power going out. He seemed more upset for failing Destiny than failing the crew.
He doesn't want just anyone messing with her systems without his permission because he think he is the only ONE who can help her and the rest are hurting her. He seems to want to keep her to himself and seems to be inhabiting the main area like a lion with his den, only people he wants can come in.
When Eli showed the outside of the ship he had a loving look on his face. Like someone falling in love with a miraculous piece of artwork.
I think he thinks of Destiny as his lady, like how a ship's captain refers to his ship. I believe that he rather die with her than live on without her and that is why he stayed on the ship. I think he was exhilarated by the fact she still had enough strength to replenish her reserves. I think his excitement was like a spouse realizing their sick partner was actually going to pull through. I also think that if he has to choose between the ship or the crew the crew will lose. He loves that ship and I feel sorry for anyone who tries to stand between him and her.

Trance
October 24th, 2009, 02:53 PM
Sorry replied twice didn't think the first went through

StarFighter
October 24th, 2009, 02:55 PM
The Rush character is interesting. At times he is mean and angry and at other times he is pleasant and thankful to others. The scene where Rush thanked Eli for giving him a chance to see the Destiny from the outside really stood out to me. It was as if Rush became greatful all of the sudden.

spinny magee
October 24th, 2009, 02:57 PM
Yes he did when an ep ends like that you just know.

garhkal
October 24th, 2009, 03:25 PM
I do not think he really knew what was going to happen, maybe that was said deliberate to raise suspicion and distrust in rush, but think he was more interested in getting back the supplies than the people in the shuttle that has to be a given.

I know some peopl like that. They have lost several loved ones and close friends through the years but those who are just acquaintences and work mates are still there. So maybe he feels if he gets too close to someone they will die.


Who would have believed any ship, even one engineered by Ancients, could have survived "surfing" a star, as someone said it above

That was me!
;)

Thunderbird 2
October 24th, 2009, 03:39 PM
You know, the little speach Rush gives at the end I found a little disapointing. It would have been more effective if the others worked out that he must of known the ship can do an energy recharge.

Destiny has been puttering form Galaxy to Galaxy for Millions of years. (Glad they clarified that in dialogue.) - It must have had the means to recharge itself to keep going, especially with faster than light propulsion. It also adds up considering the life support was breaking down when they arrived, and the ship has taken some damage.

Still, does leave the question, what would he have gained form the 15 going off in the shuttle?

ronin36
October 24th, 2009, 03:39 PM
I don't think Rush knew.

In hind-sight, it makes perfect sense. No way a ship could be build and store enough fuel to travel all those miles over 100s of thousands of years. The ship would have to gather fuel as it went.

BUT.. Remember Air Pt. 1. Rush goes to his room, pulls out picture, probably of his wife, and cries. My theory is, wife is dead. He misses her, and to a degree has a bit of a death wish. Like Greer verbalized, what better way to go. That is why he requested to be removed from the lottery.

JeffKnight
October 24th, 2009, 03:45 PM
I believe he had some notion that the Destiny might be working out its survival on its own, as it had been doing thus far, but I truly don't believe he was sure about anything specific. I, too, think his delight in the observation room was genuine. I don't think the presence of anyone proves the genuiness......when he first glanced at the restored control panel, he smiled and began a bit of delighted laughter. He seemed honestly surprised at how the ship was going to save itself.
Who would have believed any ship, even one engineered by Ancients, could have survived "surfing" a star, as someone said it above?

But, Rush is still enigmatic. He knows Young really has no use for him and even dislikes him, and I think he realizes there's no trust there. So why try to reassure Young? He walked away because he knew no one would believe him totally anyway, so why bother?

I watch the program for Rush. He is an amazingly complex character, and I hope he continues to be so.:vala:

I too watch for Rush (and Eli). The other characters don't interest me much. Greer maybe. Young, I can't seem to get my footing with this guy. Chloe I hate as much as Scott right now.

I agree with your little bit about "why bother?" Rush is a logical thinker and honestly doesn't care what most people think about him. I think of all the people on Destiny, the only one he really gives 2 hoots about is Eli, as a kindred soul, or simply because he was the one who personally recruited him into the project almost by blackmail.

mrshorty
October 24th, 2009, 03:58 PM
I dont think Rush knew.He pretty much summed it up at the end, all these adventures was just getting back the situation to the state where they first stated. Why is everyone so happy about that?

He is just a cynical workaholic genius who obviously is pretty jaded about normal human interactions. He made it quite clear he doesn't care how others think of him, and quite happy to be the public enemy as long as others do not interfere with his work.

His general lack of trust in others was shown in the conversation with Rush before - why bother trying to keep the lottery fair, when obviously people will think its fixed anyhow.

Rush is the resident cranky Spock :)

Heaven
October 24th, 2009, 04:00 PM
wonder how Rush ever passed psych evaluation
the guy clearly has some kind of mental disorder

Whitering
October 24th, 2009, 04:40 PM
I don't think he knew for sure. He might have suspected but the way we saw him act on screen, even when he was alone, suggests he was not sure.

Brain_Child
October 24th, 2009, 04:57 PM
wonder how Rush ever passed psych evaluation
the guy clearly has some kind of mental disorder

the accent

my thoughts are that Rush didn't know. but in that last scene he acted as though he did, just to test out how true Young was about his recent reconciliation. did Young really want to make up? or was it only because Young thought he was going to die and wanted to die with a clear conscience?

this is what I think Rush wants to know, and be acting as if he knew what was going to happen all along, we will see Young's true character by how he deals with this situation regarding Rush

O'Neil
October 24th, 2009, 05:18 PM
I think Rush had an idea that it could be possible, but im not sure if I would say he knew with 100% certainty.

Although if it were me, I wouldnt have told anyone. I would have let them all leave. Its obvious that the people on the ship are within a hairs distance from a mutiny. It would be a good idea to get rid of some of them.

I like Rush. Sure, sometimes he comes off as a jerk, but I like the way he handles things.

SBN
October 24th, 2009, 05:41 PM
The Rush character is interesting. At times he is mean and angry and at other times he is pleasant and thankful to others. The scene where Rush thanked Eli for giving him a chance to see the Destiny from the outside really stood out to me. It was as if Rush became greatful all of the sudden.

Watch the preview for the next episode, he has a conversation with Young and Eli. I think the Rush that is angry and screaming is over...somewhat. A lot of that is explained away of course in the last episode. I don't think he will exactly change to become anyone's BMF soon.

borgfan8of5
October 24th, 2009, 07:47 PM
IMHO, I don't think he knew. When he went into the observatory he seemed genuinely surprised. Why would he even bother with the lottery in the first place, or not telling them what was going to happen.

IrishPisano
October 24th, 2009, 07:55 PM
i don't think Rush knew... but i think he intentionally let Young think he knew...

AnonyMoose
October 24th, 2009, 11:36 PM
yes i have to semi agree with you on this. their is one thing i think you should note though on this. everyone is still upset at rush and blames him for them all being on destiny in the first place. so if his name had been in the lottery, and he had gotten on the ship, what do you think most peoples reaction would have been. most people would have blamed him for their deaths as he walks away and gets to live. so then the people who did get to go on the shuttle have now landed on their new planet and trying to survive. what do you think is going to happen between the whole group and rush. well everyone is going to shun him and basically want nothing to do with him because they too will blame him for everyone deaths. i think rush was intelligent enough to realize that either way in the end he wouldn't have had long to lived so therefore it would be easier to withdraw from the lottery and just stay put.

That's a very good additional point. Rush really had no choice but to remove himself from the lottery. Everyone already hated him, and the shuttle survivors would hate him even more when the other people died. Rush was unique, in that he was not really making any kind of sacrifice by staying on Destiny. He was just choosing a different way to die. As he said to Young: "This ship, coming here, was my destiny. My life's work was to be here, not trying to survive on some rock with a bunch of strangers." So at the end of the show when Young complemented Rush for making a sacrifice by opting out of the lottery, Rush could not acknowledge that it actually was a truly selfless sacrifice. Young had not considered this. Then when Young jumped to the wrong conclusion, assuming that Rush knew all along, Rush opted not to correct Young. This had the additional benefit to Rush of creating doubt in everyone's mind whether Rush had made a serious mistake which put all of them through this emotional ordeal/trauma of a near death illusion. In Rush's mind, even if it was an honest mistake, it was still a mistake nonetheless. Rush prefers to be thought of as a genius, even if he has to settle for being considered an evil genius.

I have seen the episode again, and read all the other comments in this forum so far, but I still don't see any compelling evidence that Rush knew or even suspected that Destiny would recharge itself somehow with the sun.

I'll give you a hypothetical scenario showing that it is extremely unlikely that he knew:
For a moment, lets assume that Rush knew that everyone on board would survive, but he played dumb in order to "thin the herd" so to speak, by scaring 17 people off the ship, even tho it would also mean that he would lose the only good shuttle and all their supplies, probably including the LRC stones. But in my scenario, the shuttle could not make it back to the ship in time. Now the remaining 50+ people would be even more upset at Rush that his ignorance split the group and put them into an even deeper hole. Even if they assumed he made an innocent mistake, many of them would definitely want to kill him at this point. Furthermore, if they then discovered that he did know ahead of time, but deliberately mislead them and made things worse, then 100% of them would immediately chuck him out an airlock and then ask Eli to continue Rush's work of getting control of Destiny.

Rush may appear not to care much for the lives of other people, but I just can't believe that he would intentionally risk either looking stupid, or putting his own life at risk to murder from the rest of the crew, or risk passing up the opportunity of his lifetime to continue trying to get control of Destiny.

If Rush had discovered earlier (by reading some ancient online manual) that Destiny would recharge itself with the sun, he would have been thrilled to boast about his knowledge to the rest of the crew. Especially if they didn't believe him and panicked while he remained perfectly calm with a smug grin on his face. Eventually he would be proven right and would redeem his credibility with Young and everyone else. It would also put him in a better position to take control of the entire group if something terrible happened to Young.

Therefore, I still have to stand by the summary in my last post as the most likely scenario that explains his motivations and behavior, which is also complemented by the more detailed information above:
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=10740255#post10740255

Replicator Todd
October 24th, 2009, 11:39 PM
i don't think Rush knew... but i think he intentionally let Young think he knew...
Indeed! I didn't think of that, a very nice observation.

ancientaction
October 25th, 2009, 12:01 AM
I think he might have known. Not to say he knew, and not to say he didnt know.

He knows that the ship will do things, alter its course, activate systems, deactivate systems, etc to provide survivability to the people on board, is the same thing the Atlantis computer system did.

But, He also knows the ships systems must be very resourceful because its so old, old enough that it was before the Ancients used ZPE for a source. You have to question how a ship thats almost a million years old would still have power, especially after traveling several billion light years. I mean, Atlantis used 3 ZPMS to power itself for a mere few thousand years after the Ancients left with almost nothing but the shield running. and when people arrived the ZPMs only lasted a few hours. but the Destiny, is Hundreds of thousands of years old, and has survived for weeks after they have arrived.


So, I think he may have had a second though in his head. He took the most apparent option, which was that the destiny dropped out in a system that had a high possibility to support life. It seamed to be an even farther option to say, the ship is doing this for itself, not us.

he had two opposing theories going on in his head. 1 made more sense than the other, the latter though seamed even more far fetched than was really reasonable.


It was merely AFTER the ship started to refuel that he probably thought, "Well, S.o.b. this ship is awesome"


Based on that, I feel that his actions were based on the fact that the ship was going to burn up. as it seamed most reasonable. that 2nd theory probably gave him the subconscious idea to stay behind.

-AA

JoshuaJSlone
October 25th, 2009, 12:22 AM
Let's say for a moment he did know in advance, beyond just a hunch. In that case... why his actions as we saw them? He didn't gain anything by choosing to act the way he did. He didn't even accept the goodwill of his shipmates afterward. Somehow I doubt his plan was "Hide it from everyone, then cause Young to be more suspicious of me by letting on that I knew."

Soooo I don't think he knew any more than we viewers.

Detox
October 25th, 2009, 01:19 AM
I don`t think he knew, but if he did, and hid it, he was running the chance of losing Eli to the shuttle group. And Eli is probably the last person Rush wanted to lose. Rush needs Eli.

Zleet
October 25th, 2009, 02:06 AM
I would say he hoped and suspected but didn't know anything for sure.

He seemed just as scared as the rest for the most part.

jcainhaze
October 25th, 2009, 02:15 AM
It's obvious he didn't know.

MattSilver 3k
October 25th, 2009, 03:01 AM
It's obvious he didn't know.

Either or.

Anyway, the fact that Young accused him of knowing speaks volumes of the conflict between the two powerhouses. Young'll always be suspicious of Rush in some way (After Rush stranded them on the Destiny, can you blame the good Colonel?), and the sparks'll fly later on.

Buck32
October 25th, 2009, 03:05 AM
i don't think he knew he just had faith the destiny wouldn't kill them all.

Phenom
October 25th, 2009, 04:27 AM
If he was playing with fake money he probably would have bet on something happening like it did. However THINKING that a result may happen and betting the survival of everyone of the ship on it are 2 different things.

tar21
October 25th, 2009, 04:30 AM
It's obvious that Rush knows more than he is saying. I say, he knows a boatload more than what he is saying. He knows exactly where the ship is going and he wants to get there.

He's a MAD SCIENTIST and a bit of an Ahab. This ship is the only thing he had going on for him. This is his life.

I think he knew the ship was going to refuel but he knew the Colonel wouldn't believe him so he let the colonel proceed with his plan to relocate people on an inhabited planet.

kirmit
October 25th, 2009, 04:33 AM
I can't see what he'd gain from sending everyone into panic and having them think they'd die. While I was watching the end I was wondering why he wouldn't just say he didn't know and then it hit me, no matter what he said young would still be suspicious of him, so there was no point in answering.

tar21
October 25th, 2009, 04:57 AM
i don't think he knew he just had faith the destiny wouldn't kill them all.

He knew it was going to refuel but and that the crew would not have faith it was going to survive plunging into the star.

shipper hannah
October 25th, 2009, 05:07 AM
I can't see what he'd gain from sending everyone into panic and having them think they'd die. While I was watching the end I was wondering why he wouldn't just say he didn't know and then it hit me, no matter what he said young would still be suspicious of him, so there was no point in answering.

Agree! I don't understand why he would bother lying about it and acting like geniunely thought they would die.

General Jeckle
October 25th, 2009, 05:12 AM
I think Dr.Rush suspected, but didn't know for a fact. Most scientists would at least conjure the possibility. After what's already happened though, he couldn't be sure those systems weren't broken too. Most people here suspected, & most people here are not leading scientists in a field.


Fool me once shame on you.Fool me twice shame on me.I can't trust Rush.
I don't see where Rush fooled anyone, much less twice. He was correct that if they didn't go through the gate at that very moment, the entire Icarus Project would be a failure. Don't forget how many idiotic questions are asked from ep 1-5; Dr.Rush understands aspects of what is going on that the others simply don't. Their ignorance is what is causing the whole 'you fooled me' reaction in the first place.

I think the final scene reflect his extreme pessimism which makes him seem like a dick.
While I agree usually what 'others' perceive becomes the accepted perception regardless of its accuracy, I don't think what he felt was pessimistic. I think he's spent way too long around people he does not like. One minute they act annoyed, suspicious, & distrustful toward him, the next it's all laughs & belly tickling. Not everyone buys into that type of predictable group behavior, & some which see it coming end up finding it distasteful. He's sick of them, & how they behave. He showed this even on Icarus Base when he went to get his food,& upon observing their generic archetypes play off eachother, lost his appetite. He didn't go down to the mess to check on them or make a scene to the chef, he intended on grabbing his food. He had already grown sick of eating around them, as revealed by the chef's expectation of Rush wanting his meal 'to go.' No one should expect this to just change b/c they're stuck on a ship now. The others are still being themselves.

Rush just isn't a very nice person.
I find this completely untrue. He's been quite nice to those not acting obnoxious to him, or focused on who's the alpha male. Most people bashing Rush have not spoken toward his accurate portrayal of someone stuck around people they can't stand. It keeps being pushed that these are the 'wrong people,' but Dr.Rush isn't the wrong person, he is exactly the right person, this is his life's work. One tends to grow tired of questions like 'what's happening', 'what does that mean', 'what do we do now', 'why didn't we arrive on Earth', or 'are those stars?' While we still don't know his area of study, Dr.Rush didn't get his degree in child day care. Yet here he is, stuck babysitting 'the wrong people.' Most people in this situation end up muttering, 'I hate kids!' & become brash toward the children until they're relieved.
:yuanime01:

Solokiller
October 25th, 2009, 06:02 AM
but the Destiny, is Hundreds of thousands of years old, and has survived for weeks after they have arrived.


Only a few days have passed since they arrived, the comments made by some of the characters supports this.

Jeffer
October 25th, 2009, 06:21 AM
I agree with most that he had an i idea that it would happen but wasn't 100% sure like what are the chance's that you drop in a system only to slow down around a gas giant to head directly towards a star.

But if he had the idea that it would refuel in the star why not say it. If that's what happens your a genius for saying it if not whats the difference anyways your dead.

YutheGreat
October 25th, 2009, 07:48 AM
his reaction when Young questioned him about it makes me think he knew but my question is why?

The only thing that makes sense at least to his mind would be to slowly knock off people one by one until only he and Destiny remain. Like a Zealot who is obsessed with something and kills everyone for it. As he said it was HIS Destiny.

SO I wonder what else he is hiding. I mean he magically figured out the communications.

The real question I want to ask is if Eli allowed him to correct the computations will Scotts smash through the Destiny or pass it into the sun?

Mythophile
October 25th, 2009, 08:04 AM
Anyway, the fact that Young accused him of knowing speaks volumes of the conflict between the two powerhouses. Young'll always be suspicious of Rush in some way (After Rush stranded them on the Destiny, can you blame the good Colonel?), and the sparks'll fly later on.

This was grade A stupid of Young. Moral was really soaring until he just had to sabotage Rush yet again. The man needs to shut up if even if he suspects something and check it out quietly.

Rush, I think, was just feeling embarrassed, and possibly a little sociophobic. He's clearly a strong introvert who needs to be alone or in quiet rational company to recover from stress. He didn't want to stay because people make him tired.

BrianD
October 25th, 2009, 08:13 AM
Having suspicions and knowing are 2 different things. Besides why give people false hope why not let them live out their life like it's their last moment and if it ends up not being their last moment then good for them time to move on. I had suspicions myself the ship would be re-powered but suspicions don't imply actuality.

ha'tak_
October 25th, 2009, 09:49 AM
I think he thought it would be possible that the ship was going to recharge but I don´t think he was 100%

Legend11
October 25th, 2009, 10:26 AM
The slight but genuine look of surprise on his face as he looked at his watch and realised he wasn't burning up was my proof he never knew. You don't put an act like that on, for yourself, alone in your quarters. Then the elation we saw as he left to see the machines powering up, still with no one around to put an act on for, put end to any doubts. If the happy act had been saved up for the scene with Eli and Chloe, then we might have a case for thinking he knew. As it happened, I can't see that we have.

What would have been the point? Just to make an attempt to get rid of his two best friends (note: sarcasm) and lessen the demands on food and water for the rest? Rush certainly played a big part in bringing the shuttle back safe and sound. It would have been pointless. He's not a social fellow, but he's also not a psychotic maniac. I love the fact many are doubting him, though, as this is clearly the intention. That's the beauty of Robert Carlyle....he plays characters people love and hate in equal measure very well indeed. We're blessed to have him in the show. Rush is intriguing.

Legend11
October 25th, 2009, 10:49 AM
When at the end Young tells him "maybe you knew" he answers "Cheers", unless you're British (or watch lots of BBC TV) you would not know that "cheers" means "Thank You", so therefore when Young (who up until the end had been learning to TRUST Rush) distrusts him by questioning whether he knew, and Rush answers "THANKS"

I'm a Brit...there are many meanings behind "cheers", not limited to a genuine "thanks" or a sarcastic "thanks."

Robert Carlyle is great at leaving you guessing, isn't he? Excellent writing played out by a fantastic actor.

Schizobadger
October 25th, 2009, 11:00 AM
He had a hunch no doubt. I mean think about it, this ship is automated and designed to take care of itself. It has been travelling through many galaxies, the Ancients would be idiots not to put some kind of energy collection system on it.

Rush was just expecting the worst. What else were they going to do? Hope it didn't burn up and have everyone die? I don't see what the big deal is other than Rush could've maybe told them that there was a possibility. It wouldn't have changed anything though.

flipper_gv
October 25th, 2009, 11:26 AM
I personally think he was shocked and surprised by Young assumptions and that's why he acted this way. I think he kinda regrets forcing everyone going on to the destiny and that's why his face would suggest that his sacrifice was all that glorious.

Heaven
October 25th, 2009, 11:27 AM
you know I think Rush was just pissed that Young touched his hair after the shuttle docked
did you see his face?
how dare he touch THE HAIR>>?

POW
October 25th, 2009, 12:03 PM
No he did not know as if he did there was no reason to risk loosing the only shuttle craft and usefull people.

He may have suspected the ship did this on purpose but he didnt know for sure how could he hes not an Ancient.

bradly08
October 25th, 2009, 12:10 PM
It could be that he did not know and was just toying with them

Saquist
October 25th, 2009, 12:27 PM
He knew, I just doesn't always give (what he sees as) unnecessary information.
Rush helped them to get the shuttle aboard and he did go back in his room and read the book as he said he was going to do instead of pouring over the Destiny in some way. so I don't think his intentions are sinister.

Also, Rush doesn't like to be touched.
And he doesn't care to be social.
But he did know,

General Jeckle
October 25th, 2009, 12:32 PM
I agree! I mean we all know the man has his own agenda but common I was with everyone when they told the general to zip it!
You mean Colonel Young? I thought you were talking about a totally different scene until I reread it. You mean in the mess I guess. There are no generals onboard.

I believe the comment by Young at the end of the episode about Rush possibly knowing was just there to show how much they question or distrust Rush.
Be nice to see how far they'd get without him. Of course, no Carlyle = no show. I'll tell ya who they shouldn't trust is the chef! Five episodes in & he still hasn't figured out how to make tortillas w/flour & water. Anyone who saw 'the Matrix' knows eating snot everyday breeds mutiny.

Confessor Rahl
October 25th, 2009, 12:37 PM
I have no idea what that little exchange was about. If he knew all along.. why the theatrics?

Groove
October 25th, 2009, 01:45 PM
I love seeing Young and Rush get on - I hate the fact that Rush takes pleasure in being a git, other than that I quite like him.

Who thinks that he did know about the power? I'm inclined to say he didn't, as he was so happy when things changed and he had a tantrum about people using power.

eliteaceman
October 25th, 2009, 02:36 PM
This thread will be eaten in 10 seconds...9.....8....

koroush47
October 25th, 2009, 03:00 PM
I think that rush thought about it.

Because he said the destiny does everything for a reason... but he also doubted it.


So when it happened it made him happy.

Saquist
October 25th, 2009, 03:11 PM
It wasn't theatrics.
Knowing made no difference. If he was wrong then at least some would survive.

Confessor Rahl
October 25th, 2009, 05:41 PM
It wasn't theatrics.
Knowing made no difference. If he was wrong then at least some would survive.

Gotcha... makes sense

GateroomGuard
October 25th, 2009, 05:57 PM
I don't think Rush knew, but I think he wants everyone to think he did. Rush seems to not want to be liked, he doesn't want to be seen as one of the team, he doesn't want to be seen as a hero. If anything he wants them to see him as an enemy. He wants to be seen as a coniving planner who knows everything.

But Rush didn't know. He was suprised and worried just like the rest of them.

neiljward
October 25th, 2009, 06:00 PM
I think he had a suspicion that the ship would save itself but I doubt he knew for definite.

Saquist
October 25th, 2009, 06:11 PM
I think he had a suspicion that the ship would save itself but I doubt he knew for definite.


True, I would say it was a really good guess.

Sidusvir
October 25th, 2009, 06:28 PM
As a scientist, he probably thought there was a possibility that the ship was doing exactly what it needed to. After all he was adamant about the ship knowing exactly what planet had the correct resources needed to get the air scrubbers functioning again. He has complete faith in Destiny

But given the ships age there would have been serious doubts in his mind that it could have withstood flying in to a star.

Perhaps his attitude toward the others on board and over all attitude is directly related to the picture we saw him gaze at in Air. I suspect it may be his wife that he has lost. I may be wrong but I think I have seen him wearing a wedding band. It would seem he doesn't want anyone to get close to him and prefers to be on the outside; a loner.

He may not have a death wish per se, but conversely he doesn't care too much if he lives, which would account for him returning to his room to finish reading his book.

He has also shown himself to be pragmatic and losing valuable supplies and a medic when at the current time they are desperately needed would go against his current modus operandi.

Col Young's comments that he knew probably benefited Rush in so much that he could use them to further separate himself from the group and reinforce his status as the most qualified person aboard in understanding the ship.

GuHNDoi
October 25th, 2009, 06:36 PM
I think he had a suspicion that the ship would save itself but I doubt he knew for definite.

Yeah! Thats what I think aswell.

Orion Antreas
October 25th, 2009, 06:45 PM
No, I believe he simply placed faith in the Destiny and took the chance, figuring he had nothing to lose.

Eternal Density
October 25th, 2009, 06:54 PM
It sure didn't look at all like he knew. I think he suspected, but there was no point voicing the suspicions. What would it achieve?

Rush: "I have a feeling that Destiny is aiming for the star intentionally."
Young: "For what purpose?"
Rush: "Perhaps it has some way of using the star to replenish its energy reserves."
Young: "And how is it going to accomplish that without killing us?"
Rush: "That's a mystery."
Young: "You don't know?"
Rush: "I don't see any way it could be possible. The only power available is the minimum required keep the ship habitable. Once we get closer to the star it won't be enough. Perhaps the ship planned to come here with with enough reserve power to survive, but we robbed it of the chance. Or maybe there's a reserve I can't find."
Young: "Maybe?"
Rush: "I have no way of knowing. That's speculation. Wild speculation."
Young: "Stop wasting my time with false hope. And don't mention this to anyone, the situation is volatile enough as it is."

Yeah, no point in telling unless he was pretty sure. And if he was sure we would have seen it on his face.

lordofseas
October 25th, 2009, 06:56 PM
I think the question should be, "Does it matter?"

Personally, I think not.

_Famrir_
October 25th, 2009, 07:05 PM
he had a foggy idea of what may have happened but he is a pessimistic person so you can figure that he thought he would have died plus he did read that "mediocre" book

SBN
October 25th, 2009, 07:55 PM
you know I think Rush was just pissed that Young touched his hair after the shuttle docked
did you see his face?
how dare he touch THE HAIR>>?

This could actually be part of it. Think about as they believed they were going to die, Rush did open up some and showed more kindness than he has at any point. When Young did that friendly gesture, he could have emotionally recoiled, as it seems he fears human relations of any closeness. So for Rush, the ambiguity was merely setting everything back to where they were prior to the ship losing power. For him, he was setting his universe back in order that he can live in.

But really, at this point they could really just take this in any direction couldn't they? We still know so little about their past relations, as well as themselves. If this was maybe season 3 or 4 we could certainly make some really good educated assumptions. I guess this will be the fun of it as we really just will not know and have to continue adding pieces to the puzzle.

Aurora24
October 25th, 2009, 07:56 PM
I think Rush did genuinely believe that everyone on the ship was going to die. He didn't want to leave even after he was certain no one would survive because his goal had been to reach the ship and now that he was there he didn't want to leave. I wonder if part of him felt obligated to stay since he was the one that brought them there, and that part of him felt that since all his hard work (reaching the Destiny) was in vain that he might as well go down with the ship.
He seemed genuinely upset about getting Eli involved, I don't think he was faking how he felt in that scene, he really didn't want Eli (or anyone else) to die, but he was afraid it was inevitable.
He also seemed pleased and shocked when the ship remained intact and began drawing power from the star. I really don't think he knew it would happen. I wouldn't make any sense for him to fake being so thrilled that they would survive in front of Chloe and Eli, it wouldn't really accomplish anything.
Rush also (in my opinion)demonstrated that he wasn't responsible for any part of the situation by his willingness to help the people on the shuttle get back safely. If he really didn't care about their fate then he wouldn't have worked so hard to help them. I liked him and Eli working together at the end, I kinda hope they end up teaming up alot (mostly cause they're my two favorite characters and I think their knowledge and skills complement each other, so together they could accomplish alot).
At the end I'm not sure if Rush was uncomfortable about joining the others because of he felt awkward after his breakdown, or because he's not really comfortable with people. I get the feeling that he's generally the type to keep to himself.

creed462
October 25th, 2009, 08:04 PM
I think Rush might have suspected, it's pretty odd for a ship to come out of warp, and then by chance head to the sun, but no one had thought of that before so it's likely that he brushed it aside and really thought the worst

Radz
October 25th, 2009, 08:27 PM
I'm unsure about his knowledge...but I have three situations that I think is the case:

1. He knew they'd survive hoped Young would choose who goes and who stays so that he'd be free of several nuisances to his research.

2. He didn't know and just wants everyone to think he did so that it looks like he knows more than he's letting on...to make him look more intelligent and important. Would be useful for blackmail purposes.

3. He genuinely didn't know and is just anti-social about the matter and makes himself looks suspicious unintentionally.

Saquist
October 25th, 2009, 08:58 PM
I think Rush might have suspected, it's pretty odd for a ship to come out of warp, and then by chance head to the sun, but no one had thought of that before so it's likely that he brushed it aside and really thought the worst

Well, he's a genius...once you assign intent to a set of variables, which he did, it's difficult with math to end up a coincidental course.

You see, an aerobraking maneuver is done specifically to slow down for an approach, an orbit or landing. After the maneuver if there were no planets dead ahead into capture Destiny's trajectory...and there was only the sun straight ahead...then the sun was the objective.

The Problem with SGU:

Universe hasn't set itself up as a realistic Science Fiction Drama, In true SCI FI, these scenaios would be definitive. There would be no doubt that a ship exiting FTL where two bodies are on a sling shot trajectory. That is a capture or landing.

Note DESTINY had to fire it's engines to leave the Star. That's Realistic.
Aerobraking by defintion is a decayed orbit especially with a body as big as the sun.

Passing through a Gas Giant at a fraction of Light Speed with little to no shields. NOT REALISTIC.
The ship should have been engulf in Ionized Gas not turbulence.

What we see is that the plot tends override the common sense logic in SGU.
That's the only real reason why there is any question to if Rush knew or didn't know.

In Reality he would know that Destiny chose the Gas Giant for a Braking maneuver for a course to the System Star.

Commander Zelix
October 25th, 2009, 11:55 PM
3. He genuinely didn't know and is just anti-social about the matter and makes himself looks suspicious unintentionally.
LOL

Maybe he's just tired of being constantly finger pointed. So didn't bother to defend himself anymore.

_Ancients_
October 26th, 2009, 12:03 AM
I can't recall any other ship in the SG series that was capable of surviving direct contact with a star. So I am not sure why Rush would think that this would be any different. I think that he was resigned to the fact that they were going to die. Maybe he had a small thought in the back of his head, but it wasn't big enough to let him share it with the rest of the crew.

renboy
October 26th, 2009, 05:01 AM
(warning, grim post ahead, only my current opinion)

I believe Rush knew about the recharge (maybe he wasn't 100% sure, but close to that);

I think he is a coward by nature, and wouldn't risk himself dieing.
He couldn't care less about the other crew members (unless they serve as help to farther his needs) - and once the ship is recharged, I think he believes it could provide anything he needs to stay on it for as long as he wishes (getting rid of a dozen or so people on-board the shuttle would reduce the resource consumption on the ship even farther).

In his mind, he doesn't need anybody else, not even Eli (who served his purpose on Icarus, and is mostly useless now).
Maybe he even knows about the true purpose of the Destiny or some mysterious ability/device that it has that is the sole reason he got there in the first place.

He obviously can't go around pushing other crew members outside air-locks, so it's a minor setback to have those people annoy him around the ship.

If he could, he would go alone into the Stargate on Icarus to the 9th Cheveron address.
(in retrospect, it would have been fatal due to the failing life support, but he didn't know that).

Step 1: Control the Destiny
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Profit

Steelbox
October 26th, 2009, 05:20 AM
In my opinion he kind of knew but wasn't completely sure of it. If he was sure sure sure they where going to die he was saving those people lives, well they survived and he hoped that they could come back. If he wanted them to die, why didn't he stalled Eli about the sling shot calculations?

Encoder
October 26th, 2009, 05:24 AM
So IMHO, I think that, yeah he had an inkling that something would happen to save their lives, but on the other hand, I don't think he was willing to bet every single one of their lives on one of his wild and crazy ideas (again).

No way he knew...he was sitting in his room, contemplating death just like the others. Had he known, he'd have been at the controls, waiting for them to power up based on his assumption/fore knowledge.

He was as suprised as any of them.

IMO Rush didn't know. Young's insinuation simply was a conclusion that he jumped to because he doesn't trust Rush. Rush just simply let them believe what they wanted to believe!

:sheppard:

Jper
October 26th, 2009, 06:57 AM
This thread will be eaten in 10 seconds...9.....8....

Eaten by the other thread about this:
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=70493

Saquist
October 26th, 2009, 07:45 AM
(warning, grim post ahead, only my current opinion)

I believe Rush knew about the recharge (maybe he wasn't 100% sure, but close to that);

I think he is a coward by nature, and wouldn't risk himself dieing.
He couldn't care less about the other crew members (unless they serve as help to farther his needs) - and once the ship is recharged, I think he believes it could provide anything he needs to stay on it for as long as he wishes (getting rid of a dozen or so people on-board the shuttle would reduce the resource consumption on the ship even farther).

In his mind, he doesn't need anybody else, not even Eli (who served his purpose on Icarus, and is mostly useless now).
Maybe he even knows about the true purpose of the Destiny or some mysterious ability/device that it has that is the sole reason he got there in the first place.

He obviously can't go around pushing other crew members outside air-locks, so it's a minor setback to have those people annoy him around the ship.

If he could, he would go alone into the Stargate on Icarus to the 9th Cheveron address.
(in retrospect, it would have been fatal due to the failing life support, but he didn't know that).

Step 1: Control the Destiny
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Profit

If that was true then he wouldn't have come up with the sling shot for the Shuttle.

renboy
October 26th, 2009, 07:55 AM
I believe stroking his ego, saving the day and getting the credit has a good ring to it.
Plus, he said it himself - he just wanted to get the supplies on the shuttle back.

Again, not arguing the point, but that's how I currently feel about him - he is a crazy scientist, and his agenda changes on a whim based on his personal goals, what looked good a few hours ago can change instantly.

Saquist
October 26th, 2009, 07:59 AM
Then why that little moment between him and Young?

"You this would be the perfect time to trust me...to solve this problem"
Was that ego, or was Rush reaching out?

Mongoletsi
October 26th, 2009, 08:12 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Rush has acted impecably since arriving on Destiny? I can't fault a single action.

renboy
October 26th, 2009, 08:12 AM
I don't think "reaching out" is in Rush's vocabulary ... (unless it satisfies an agenda that he has)
That specific line is all about ego - he is basically telling Young that not only he is capable of solving this problem, but Young not trusting him is what gets in his way all the time.

KEK
October 26th, 2009, 08:23 AM
Then why that little moment between him and Young?

"You this would be the perfect time to trust me...to solve this problem"
Was that ego, or was Rush reaching out?

I'd say it was just Rush trying to get Young to shut up and let him work.

Sami_
October 26th, 2009, 08:28 AM
At first I thought Rush did know and the entire situation was just to make the crew bond with each other which appeared to be the result at the end.

I figured Rush saw the crew beind divided as a problem and wanted to fix it but at the end he seems to be causing divisions by refusing to celebrate with them and being negative so now I'm confused.

Mythophile
October 26th, 2009, 08:53 AM
LOL

Maybe he's just tired of being constantly finger pointed. So didn't bother to defend himself anymore.

^ I think this is where we're headed. I think the climax this season is going to be the scapegoating of Rush. The writers are trying so hard to make him look bad without him doing anything bad. I think he's a red herring.

I think Telford is the spy that's been talked about and that Rush was who he planned to be the fall guy for whatever mischief he planned.

bladebeam1
October 26th, 2009, 09:12 AM
I think Rush knows alot.

I think it is no accident that he brought along the communication stones.

:)

Col. Tomorian
October 26th, 2009, 09:21 AM
http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Nicholas_Rush

In 2009, Rush was stationed at the Icarus Base in order to research the purpose of the Stargate's ninth chevron. After an unknown attack on the base, Rush alone was responsible for sending the Icarus personnel to the Destiny - an Ancient vessel situated in a far galaxy - with no way of returning. (SGU: "Air")


Gloria Rush was a female Tau'ri, and the wife of Nicholas Rush. She was a concert violinist and diagnosed with cancer. By 2007 she died due to the cancer. Ever since, her husband became more obsessed with researching Ancient technology and had since joined the Stargate program. (SGU: "Human")
If you think about the irony he is living through, you will understand where this character is going.

http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Jacob_Carter

Jacob soon learned that he was afflicted with lymphoma, a rare form of cancer. Unable to ebb the attack raging within his body, Jacob accepted an offer from General Hammond and Samantha to live by becoming host to a member of the Tok'ra, the Goa'uld resistance movement with whom Earth is allied.
Hmmm... If you learned two years after your wife dies of cancer there was a cure, how would you feel about the government and military withholding that information?

Wouldn't you be pissed?

I think Rush is holding back because he blames the military for holding back a possible cure. Its a tough love relationship between him and the military.

"You mess with my life, I mess with your life" type of logic.

After learning about the advances in science the Stargate program had discovered, and how they may be holding them back from the population, I can see why he doesn't trust anyone's judgment. I think he is justified.

Just my prediction.

Spimman
October 26th, 2009, 09:24 AM
*Jumping In*

I wouldn't be surprised if had had an idea in the back of his mind, but he did have a real nervous breakdown and seemed surprised so he definitely didn't know anything with any confidence level.

zac naloen
October 26th, 2009, 09:26 AM
I'm more concerned with what about Rush's behaviour changed Young from praising to suspicious.

When Young is listing off the all the reasons Rush deserves praise, when he gets to the line "I was injured, you made a real sacrifice" Rush actually shakes his head, ever so subtley. Youngs demeanor changes completely after that.

Given what Young knows about Rush, that's he a difficult, with seemingly no care for anyone he immediately assumes the worst and thinks it was his plan all along. Given what we know about Rush (he still wears a wedding ring I just noticed as well) we know he's lost his wife and was quite probably more than willing to die with destiny as the only thing left to him was finding that ship. Staying wasn't a sacrifice to him at all. hence the head shake.

Add to that his demeanor, he's angry at himself, he misread all the signs about what was going on with the ship when it was shutting down and redirecting power and he is proud. Once his initial elation had settled down, he was quite angry at how badly he misread the situation.


That's my take anyway.

jrd231
October 26th, 2009, 09:27 AM
I don't think he knew. I do think he had an idea and I think for him the risk was worth it to stay on the ship just in case it refueled. Rush would never risk leaving the ship if there was any hint that the ship might be able to refuel by using the sun. He is obsessed with that ship. I also don't think he was sure enough to tell anybody which might have affected some individuals decision to leave.

In the end, and this is just my opinion based on what I've seen from his character so far, that he thought there was a minuscule chance the ship would use the sun to refuel but not even close to enough to bring it to the attention of anybody. But again, any small hint and he wasn't risking leaving the ship.

Saquist
October 26th, 2009, 10:12 AM
I'd say it was just Rush trying to get Young to shut up and let him work.


I don't think "reaching out" is in Rush's vocabulary ... (unless it satisfies an agenda that he has)
That specific line is all about ego - he is basically telling Young that not only he is capable of solving this problem, but Young not trusting him is what gets in his way all the time.


It was perhaps his first diplomatic moment.
I didn't sense ego or his usual short temper and since that little discussion between the two of seemed to have an understanding he seemed to be working in accordance with that accord.

Maybe it's just me.

Saquist
October 26th, 2009, 10:13 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Rush has acted impecably since arriving on Destiny? I can't fault a single action.

Maybe one of the few.
I didn't think Rush was justified sending them to Destiny instead of a Milky Way location.

Mongoletsi
October 26th, 2009, 10:27 AM
Maybe one of the few.
I didn't think Rush was justified sending them to Destiny instead of a Milky Way location.
I was quite specific with the since arriving on Destiny dude :)

Ravroz
October 26th, 2009, 10:49 AM
Just my two cents but I believe that Rush didn't know at least at first and perhaps he did read about the solar power thing but given the evidence and how joyful he was that they didn't die I would say at the very least that he didn't think it would work.

fallenexile452
October 26th, 2009, 11:11 AM
i didn't think he knew. I think really Rush thought if there was any chance at survival it was on board the destiny. He probably recognised that if they went to that planet that would be where they died. he was simply deciding where to die by withdrawing his name from the lottery. I think that as viewers we knew that destiny was going to survive and that changes our perceptions about the situation away from those by the characters, they don't know they still have 15 episodes left to go.

People have been bringing up that it was predictable that the ship was going to survive, thats' nothing new to any sci-fi programme. leads don't often die in the middle or even at the start of the series. the ships crews are travelling on really go boom before the end of the series or without returning in some shape or form several episodes later.

Saquist
October 26th, 2009, 11:23 AM
I was quite specific with the since arriving on Destiny dude :)

Yes, sir, sorry.

Arcanum
October 26th, 2009, 02:45 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Rush has acted impecably since arriving on Destiny? I can't fault a single action.

No, I agree with you. I also think that Youngs dislike of Rush is making Rush look worse than he is. He keeps saying that he is a lot of work, he asks if Rush did whatever happened (like when the light goes out). Furthermore, no good leader would even bring up the possibility of Rush knowing beforehand, while there are that many people around. A good leader would do that in private. I mean, they really need Rush, so constantly questioning him and his motives in front of others will decrease his credibility and just creates conflicts. Conflicts that could become a real problem when the heat is on.

And another thought... apart from the 'key' personnel, there seems to be a bunch of 'useless' people who came through along with the other from the Icarus base... what I dont get is why would there be a bunch of useless people on a top secret base on another planet? ... surely everybody that was on the Icarus base must have some useful skills?

Khentkawes
October 26th, 2009, 03:23 PM
This was grade A stupid of Young. Moral was really soaring until he just had to sabotage Rush yet again. The man needs to shut up if even if he suspects something and check it out quietly.

Rush, I think, was just feeling embarrassed, and possibly a little sociophobic. He's clearly a strong introvert who needs to be alone or in quiet rational company to recover from stress. He didn't want to stay because people make him tired.

This! Anyone with strong tendencies to introversion will tell you that having to deal with people is physically draining. I'm an introvert, and I literally schedule time where I can be away from people. If I'm stuck with a bunch of people for a prolonged period of time, I become rather unpleasant...even if they're people I like. Rush basically has no escape from these people. Add to that the pressure he's under, and the fact that they are all rather suspicious of him... yeah, he would be looking for excuses to stay away from people.


This could actually be part of it. Think about as they believed they were going to die, Rush did open up some and showed more kindness than he has at any point. When Young did that friendly gesture, he could have emotionally recoiled, as it seems he fears human relations of any closeness. So for Rush, the ambiguity was merely setting everything back to where they were prior to the ship losing power. For him, he was setting his universe back in order that he can live in.

Good point. At the end of the episode, it's back to Rush's version of "business as usual." He's already shifting back into work mode, while everyone else is celebrating. So I think he is returning to his somewhat pessimistic and reclusive ways, because that's what's natural to him.

I do see him eventually getting fed up with all of the suspicion and mistrust. If he wasn't so interested in the Destiny, I don't see him continuing to put up with these people (from his perspective... I actually like most of the characters. I just don't think Rush has the patience for them, especially considering they all distrust him). I also wonder how much of the audience's mistrust comes from what we knew from statements made by cast/crew/writers/producers before the show aired. Because I just don't see a reason for the pathological mistrust in Rush. Not yet. They blame him for getting stuck on the Destiny. Okay, that's fine. And they all think he's arrogant. Again, that's fine, and perfectly accurate. So based on one decision and his general arrogance they accuse him of toying with them and trying to get rid of a shuttle full of people? He's arrogant, not a sadistic maniac who gets kicks out of tormenting people... especially since he didn't benefit from it at all.

The writers will have to give me a pretty good reason soon if they expect me to buy this high level of distrust. That last scene in Light didn't make me distrust Rush... it made me sympathize with him.

KEK
October 26th, 2009, 04:13 PM
http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Nicholas_Rush



If you think about the irony he is living through, you will understand where this character is going.

http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Jacob_Carter

Hmmm... If you learned two years after your wife dies of cancer there was a cure, how would you feel about the government and military withholding that information?

Wouldn't you be pissed?

I think Rush is holding back because he blames the military for holding back a possible cure. Its a tough love relationship between him and the military.

"You mess with my life, I mess with your life" type of logic.

After learning about the advances in science the Stargate program had discovered, and how they may be holding them back from the population, I can see why he doesn't trust anyone's judgment. I think he is justified.

Just my prediction.

That site isn't to be trusted, half of it is either speculation or just plain made up.

YutheGreat
October 26th, 2009, 04:44 PM
After a bit of thought I think he did know which is why he was getting rid of people. When Rush and Young talked Rush suggested Scott and Greer. Matt as a leader could rally a mutiny to challenge and put him down. I like Greer after he decked the bald guy. Greer threatened to kill him so Rush has a vested interest to get rid of him.

Logically speaking TJ would be the best choice as a doctor and Medic; Eli would be next on the list being the one that could get them back home.

Whitering
October 26th, 2009, 04:53 PM
I agree, we need some more back story there. Maybe Young just distrusts intellectuals and sees them as elitist or something. I don't get it. I mean, he thinks Rush faked being so agree he was spraying spittle all over the gate room, and then, oh ya, he faked passing out, and then faked being unconscious for an hour or two.

Young was even there when Rush first came into the viewing room or whatever and saw that Destiny had entered a star system. Makes no freaking sense based on what we've seen and just makes me dislike Young. Voicing those suspicions in front the of the crew was not the act of a great commander either. I am way over Young.

missmobius
October 27th, 2009, 08:03 AM
Rush is a Goa'uld! (probably one of the Ba'al clones in disguise)

FallenAngelII
October 27th, 2009, 08:28 AM
I doubt he knew. He may he suspected or had a theory, but he didn't know. Not that it would've stopped them from sending a shuttle, anyway. "Hey, there's this slim chance that the ship might power itself up by flying through the sun! I have no way of verifying this theory of mine, but let's not send that shuttle because it might result in the people in it being stranded... together with the brunt of our much-needed supplies, leaving us to starve!".

Also, if he really wanted them dead, he wouldn't have come up with that slingshot solution. So, no, he probably didn't know. At most, he had a theory without any way of proving it, even to himself.

Mongoletsi
October 27th, 2009, 08:45 AM
That site isn't to be trusted, half of it is either speculation or just plain made up.
(re stargate.wikia.com)
Quoted for truth, it's terrible.

Jper
October 27th, 2009, 09:49 AM
I think Rush knows alot.

I think it is no accident that he brought along the communication stones.

:)

He/Rush did not bring the communication stones along. Young did. I don't think Rush would have brought the stones.


http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Nicholas_Rush


Gloria Rush was a female Tau'ri, and the wife of Nicholas Rush. She was a concert violinist and diagnosed with cancer. By 2007 she died due to the cancer. Ever since, her husband became more obsessed with researching Ancient technology and had since joined the Stargate program. (SGU: "Human")



How do you/they know that? I never heard any mention of Rush's wife, let alone that her name was Gloria and that she died of cancer. etc.
Don't we still need to see this?
Stargate wikia is a great initiative, but we haven't seen this and they are just presenting speculation as the truth.

Croatoan
October 27th, 2009, 10:12 AM
I think the writers did a very good job of writing this episode so that as viewers we could not with a hundred percent certainty come to a conclusions that he knew or did not know.

It never sat well with me that the Destiny has been traveling through space for hundreds of thousands of years with no problems of power, and we stumble upon her in blind luck and we get to bear witness to her running out of power and her first 'error' in course plotting leading to its destruction in the sun. My very first thought at the end of episode was they were going to go through all this hassle and then the ship is going to use the sun to replenish its power and whoever gets on that ship is going to get left behind. I told my wife this the night Darkness aired.

So then I figured you know Rush is a really smart guy. He has to realize that it does not make sense the ship is 'dying' at the exact moment we just happen to stumble upon it. So I assume he is smart enough to figure out something has to happen but I can not jump to the conclusions he knew what would happen.

Now my next clue that he had a good idea they would survive was when his thoughts on who to send in the ship for the two was Scott and Greer. Okay Scott I get but why Greer? If he is genuinely trying to give them a fighting chance you logically send the only person with medical training and he has to send a pilot. Where does Greer come from as a suggestion?

I believe Rush was actually trying to get rid of Greer and if getting rid of 14 other individuals on the ship was a consequence so be it. Its almost like a messiah complex everyone but him is expendable. Hell keeping TJ on the Destiny falls drastically inline with this. He's keeping the medic with him on the Destiny. Not to mention he pulled his name out of the lottery.

The only part of this that does not fit is his appearance to be genuinely shocked when he looked at his watch and ran to the observatory room.

Now I said all this to ask this question....

If all this was premeditated and I believe it was....why even hint to Young that your that devious and that you knew?

If you didn't know.....and your hated by everyone and these events end up with you earning some brownie points with the person your butting heads with the most so far.....why even lead him on?

I don't think he could honestly think he would have more to gain by making them think he was smart enough to know they would survive the sun than he has to lose with breaking the trust he just earned.

Gollumpus
October 27th, 2009, 10:56 AM
Initially, Rush did not know.

When he saw Destiny from the exterior view, he may have noticed something which started to percolate in his mind. His assumptions from that point would continue to form until it became obvious what Destiny was going to do.

The only thing he might need to consider would be whether or not Destiny could survive the process of flying through a star.

regards,
G.

Automission
October 27th, 2009, 02:18 PM
I think he didn't know, but soon worked out midway through the trip. It makes the most sense, I don't see Young being so selfish that he'd risk 15 peoples lives just for personal gain.

Automission
October 27th, 2009, 02:20 PM
He/Rush did not bring the communication stones along. Young did. I don't think Rush would have brought the stones.



How do you/they know that? I never heard any mention of Rush's wife, let alone that her name was Gloria and that she died of cancer. etc.
Don't we still need to see this?
Stargate wikia is a great initiative, but we haven't seen this and they are just presenting speculation as the truth.

Its a shame if it is true, as that wiki will cause a lot of spoilers for the shows future.

Arlan
October 27th, 2009, 02:22 PM
He probably had a hunch what might happen, but didn't know for sure. For that reason he probably kept quiet. If he knew for sure he wouldn't have let the shuttle go, because he obviously valued the supplies on it and wouldn't want to lose them.

SoulReaver
October 27th, 2009, 02:23 PM
of course he knew. he read the script

Jper
October 27th, 2009, 04:08 PM
Its a shame if it is true, as that wiki will cause a lot of spoilers for the shows future.

Yeah, but I don't read it. It's more wrong than it is right most of the time. It comes in handy when you're doing some research, but that's all. This only proves that spoilers are everywhere on the Internet these days.


of course he knew. he read the script

:lol: Too bad I can't green you for now.

Arga
October 27th, 2009, 04:53 PM
For me, it was strange that Rush didn't try again & again till the end, to find a way to escape their tragic destiny.
He was very at peace with it.
As if he knew/hoped that the ship would survive this.
But it wasn't obvious, when looking at his acting.

What made me believe that he guessed, is that in the script, the writers made Young have suspicion : "…Unless you knew…that the Destiny was going to make it all along."
Since everything they say in a TV show counts, I'm sure Rush knew (maybe not in the beginning, but when he decided to go to his room to read). Otherwise, there wouldn't be this line of text, that made the audience doubt it too.

SoulReaver
October 27th, 2009, 06:09 PM
:lol: Too bad I can't green you for now.:sheppardanime21:

anyway going by Rush's behaviour & look of surprise when he was alone it's a given that he didn't know, in fact I'm surprised there's even a thread about it (of course the snag is, the viewers are the only ones who know that)

what is more intriguing is why Rush didn't object when Young made the accusation (unless his was more of a "forget it I know u don't trust me so I'd be wasting my time anyway" sort of reaction)

Jper
October 27th, 2009, 06:10 PM
:sheppardanime21:

anyway going by Rush's behaviour & look of surprise when he was alone it's a given that he didn't know, in fact I'm surprised there's even a thread about it (of course the snag is, the viewers are the only ones who know that)

I quite agree with you. :) What [email protected] said. :)

Ltcolshepjumper
October 27th, 2009, 06:19 PM
http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Nicholas_Rush


Gloria Rush was a female Tau'ri, and the wife of Nicholas Rush. She was a concert violinist and diagnosed with cancer. By 2007 she died due to the cancer. Ever since, her husband became more obsessed with researching Ancient technology and had since joined the Stargate program. (SGU: "Human") .

this came from the casting sides for this character
Its difficult to say whether Rush knew. If he did, its hard to see why he did what he did throughout the episode. If he didn't, its hard to understand why he looked so guilty when Young commented about it. Assuming that he withdrew his name because he wanted to be on the ship- what purpose would that have served? especially since he helped the shuttle return. And if he didn't know, why did he really remove his name from the lottery, if it wasn't a selfess action?

JohnDuh
October 27th, 2009, 08:26 PM
Here, we aren't so easy to trust Rush, and someday that may really bite us in the ass. I think that is the way TPTB want it.


I trust him.

And no, he clearly didn't know. Unless he is deeply psychotic with alternate personality disorders.

Jaden
October 28th, 2009, 12:54 AM
I do not think Rush knew. but i think he may have had a hunch about it since the start, that they might survive. and he sent the shuttle out just in case. i like Rush :D

ciannwn
October 28th, 2009, 06:38 AM
I've seen the episode now so here are my thoughts on the matter.

Rush probably considered the possibility that the Destiny had used suns to refuel in the past. He had no idea how the process actually worked, though, and he believed that the ship's power was more or less depleted so there wasn't enough to maintain any shields at full strength. Under those circumstances it would have made sense for him to go along with sending as many people as possible to that planet in the shuttle. When it came to himself, it's likely that he really did prefer death to trying to survive in a hostile environment.

kinseySG
October 28th, 2009, 06:49 AM
he didn't know in my opinion, he may have had a theory that related to the sun, about how a ship that goes on for ever doesn't run out of power,

Actionhank
October 28th, 2009, 09:17 AM
It could be that at some earlier point in his life he experienced something that would convince him that he would go through some action on the Destiny. Maybe a time travel or a vision - you know that kind of thing that makes a scifi story. ^^
So deep down he kind of knew this was not the end but from what the facts looked like in that situation he wasn't faking they would die.

maddmike
October 28th, 2009, 12:38 PM
I have a feeling, that he had a feeling they would be OK that the ship would be fine. They never showed the course of the ship before it went around the planet and it was only after it did that they knew it was heading at the sun.

I would like to think he genuinely didn't know they would be ok, but i have several doubts in my mind.

The main reason that question was at the end of the episode was to get the viewers to watch it and see if it comes out that he knew, because i know myself i am extremely intrigued by the answer.

Magnecite
October 28th, 2009, 03:03 PM
Light finished rather oddly. If Rush even suspected they had a chance why wouldn't he give them some hope. Unless he has some personal bitterness that would negate that. He did look surprised that they had gone past the time for disintegration.

I felt the attack by Young on Rush was out of place as well. That suspiscion expressed so publicly could rebound rather badly in a ship full of people who are already disharmonious and under stress. It could have been acted a lot more subtly to inform the viewer without outright confrontation.

I can only suppose Rush is an intentional misfit/outsider and Young is limited in his leadership skills.

Mag

Crashbarrier
October 29th, 2009, 05:37 AM
So IMHO, I think that, yeah he had an inkling that something would happen to save their lives,

TBH i don't think their lives were "saved" because their lives were never in that much danger. I think the Destiny did what it was programmed to do in the eventuality that it needed more power. It went and recharged the batteries. Destiny is Ancient design and has been flying for uncounted years automatically doing what ever it is that its been programmed/charged to do.

I figure that Rush being vaguely expert in Ancient stuff figured out that the ship being Ancient and the Ancients being who they are they built in a degree of self sustainability with the ship. I.e. it can look after itself within a set boundry of situations and scenarios. I mean up until now it has been proved within the previous two shows that much of the more present Ancient technology is largely self sufficient and has built in redundancy which kicks in during certain situations (ref: Atlantis rising when shields become depleted).

I seriously believe that Rush trusted that the ship would sort itself out. I also feel that he wasn't 100% sure that he was right until they had exceeded the timeframe he had set for them to be dead. But what ever it is that is driving him to do what he is doing kept him on the ship regardless.

As for him not volunteering his speculation to the rest of the "crew". It has already been shown that Dr Rush does not play well with others. Particulalrly others who he feels are not "smart". it has also been shown that while he will answer questions he does not volunteer information. What you have to do is pin him down with direct specific questions. If you don't you don't get all the information you may consider relevant.

Mythophile
October 29th, 2009, 11:31 AM
I felt the attack by Young on Rush was out of place as well.

Rush is the scapegoat, which is obvious given the writer's attempts to paint him as evil without concrete evidence. I suspect this accusation will have repercussions soon, which will cause Young to continue to think he's a crappy leader and injure Rush. Only weak leaders allow scapegoating to happen because it's a way to avoid dealing with problems. After all, if you blame someone else you don't have to take responsibility.

Legend11
October 29th, 2009, 01:36 PM
I have no idea what that little exchange was about. If he knew all along.. why the theatrics?

More importantly, why the theatrics where no one but us, the audience, could see him? He was surprised alone in his quarters, and as he run out to confirm the power had come back...all before Chloe and Eli could see him. I can't understand why it is still being debated, as you don't put an act of surprise on for the viewers.

Jper
October 29th, 2009, 02:46 PM
More importantly, why the theatrics where no one but us, the audience, could see him? He was surprised alone in his quarters, and as he run out to confirm the power had come back...all before Chloe and Eli could see him. I can't understand why it is still being debated, as you don't put an act of surprise on for the viewers.

It is still being debated because it is interesting. It's also about the "why". I believe Rush did not know, but then why would he act like he did towards Young. Why is he letting on? I read some truly interesting theories here about that and I believe them to be true. :)

And not only that it is interesting to discuss reasons why not to tell, if he suspected or knew, even if that is just what it is, discussion and nothing more.

People have different opinions and this gives them a place to talk about the differences in opinion and their opinion and again "Why."

ReFRidgerator
October 29th, 2009, 03:59 PM
I wouldn't trust Rush as far as I could throw him, but I don't htink he knew. He may have figured it out quickly, and even possibly suspected on some level but I don't think he knew.

Replicator Todd
October 29th, 2009, 04:10 PM
I'm still going to believe Rush knew because it just makes him more awesome for me. :P

Lightning Ducj
October 29th, 2009, 04:13 PM
I think Rush has a certain amount of guilt or remorse about dragging everyone along to this situation so I think he tends to second guess himself when given the chance. His remark about never having been happier to be wrong seemed genuine so at the time he truly didn't know but once things have returned to some semblance of normalcy his pessimism creeps back in, thinking to himself that he should've known

Arga
October 29th, 2009, 04:37 PM
Now I think Rush didn't know for sure,

but when he realized what happened, after a moment of joy and when Young suggested he knew, then the silence of Rush may be explained because he suddenly felt stupid for not having guessed what was going to happen. He was problably thinking "why didn't I see that coming? Young is right, that's something I should have known"...

If he had replied to Young, "no I didn't know", then he would seem to be incompetent, which is something Rush would hate to admit, i think.
He couldn't lie and said he knew, because people would ask why didn't he say something!
So he left, to go sulk in his room..
Ok "cheers, stop bugging me and infer i'm rather stupid or selfish; i'll be in my room"....

Edi
October 29th, 2009, 04:48 PM
Well, even if he knew, why shouldn't he be happy? He will live and his theory was correct!
What example could I bring... (?)
Ah... if you are about to cross the rail road and there is a train coming to intercept you, but you kinda know (have calculated or just have very good intuition :) ) that you will make it - wouldn't you be happy when/ if you made it? :D

Legend11
October 30th, 2009, 10:53 AM
It is still being debated because it is interesting. It's also about the "why". I believe Rush did not know, but then why would he act like he did towards Young. Why is he letting on? I read some truly interesting theories here about that and I believe them to be true. :)

And not only that it is interesting to discuss reasons why not to tell, if he suspected or knew, even if that is just what it is, discussion and nothing more.

People have different opinions and this gives them a place to talk about the differences in opinion and their opinion and again "Why."

Fair points. I actually find the theories interesting myself...but rationality has led me to believe that the actor and the writers have already told me Rush never knew. I suppose the act of surprise he put on *just* for the cameraman could have been to psyche himself up...to get into the part, so to speak. For me, that would be the only other rational explanation. :)

As to why Rush never did himself any favours in dissuading Young to believe what he did, I took that as Rush being Rush. The sociopath was happy to be excluded from the group again. I think it was the fear of being 'included' that caused that. I've seen it in real life. People will actively encourage others to think ill of them, so they'll go away and leave them be. There's nothing as strange as folk.

HAL
October 30th, 2009, 12:16 PM
Rush didnt know the only reason he pretended he did at the end was he really doesnt want to be liked and young was started to atleast beable to tollorate and treat him with respect Ie patting him on the back , shaking hes hand and offering him extra

Rush felt uncomfortable with this so destroyed the relasionship before it started.

IcarusAbides
October 30th, 2009, 12:18 PM
Rush didnt know the only reason he pretended he did at the end was he really doesnt want to be liked and young was started to atleast beable to tollorate and treat him with respect Ie patting him on the back , shaking hes hand and offering him extra

Rush felt uncomfortable with this so destroyed the relasionship before it started.
Perhaps, rush did seem to mellow slightly after getting over his caffeine and cigarette withdrawal.

CaramelMonkey
October 30th, 2009, 12:18 PM
I don't think he knew... I think he might've had a slight hope, but I don't think he knew.

His reaction at the end just got me super suspicious... but after re-watching the first half of the episode, you can tell he's not faking.

Girlbot
October 30th, 2009, 12:20 PM
I don't think he knew for certain, but perhaps it was one of his hypotheses. Since the destiny may have encountered similar situations in the past, he might have factored in the ability to survive that kind of encounter, but his calculations had too little info to project certainty, so he kept that to himself.

Starrtom
October 30th, 2009, 02:08 PM
I think he only realised what was going on when the Ship was in the sun, and they were all still alive. Before that he expected to die like everyone else.

MelbournePates
October 30th, 2009, 06:13 PM
I think he had some degree of knowlege, he must have had some theories about how the ship still had power after being launched so long ago, but i don't believe he knew for sure.

I just find his character to be such an enigma, he wants so desperately to be hated. He could've taken a lot of credit for getting the shuttle back and saving 15 people, he could've been jovial about how he was right and wrong at the same time (with the power), and if he'd just been a little happy about how they are still all alive he would've been welcomed into the group with open arms.

It's amazing that he'd made peace with Col. Young and Eli just before they were going to die but he's once again made himself the bad guy.

Julian
October 30th, 2009, 11:44 PM
Yes. Of course he knew, of course he would've worked it out.
I think he knew there was no reason why the ship would've gone off course so much that it'd land up in the path of a star...

Plus, when he was asked, he didn't say anything and walked off. He either didn't want to admit to it, *or* he could have just done that to make them believe that he knew...

I thought I had him figured out with the whole caffeine-withdrawal thing... but now he's just as confusing.

Jper
October 31st, 2009, 07:00 AM
I think he knew there was no reason why the ship would've gone off course so much that it'd land up in the path of a star...

Actually when the ship dropped out of FTL it was heading towards the blue gas giant and not towards the star. It was not as if the ship dropped out of FTL and was heading towards the sun, that was not what happened. So imho your reasoning there is wrong.

EllieVee
November 3rd, 2009, 04:42 PM
He didn't know until he went to the console and checked. The lack of reaction to Young's accusation, I think, was simply that he either (a) doesn't care (and I think he does) or (b) doesn't react because that's what Young expects.

UndergroundWire
November 4th, 2009, 03:52 PM
I've been meaning to either call in to the podcast or write on the forum regarding this subject. I believe Rush did not know. In "Light" he was actually very friendly. Until the end when his personality did a 180. My theory is, Rush thought he was going to die so he was friendly. But after this didnt happen, he changed. Why? Because he think he doesn't want to grow any emotional bonds with anyone. In Air Pt 1 we see Rush looking at a picture. Did this person in his life die? Leave him? We don't know but what I do believe is Rush doesn't not want to be liked. The turning point in his personality was when Young slapped him on the back thanking him for a good job.

In the end, Rush never acknowledged the question if he knew because he just wanted to seem like a "Dick". And he did it on purpose.

EllieVee
November 4th, 2009, 06:38 PM
I've been meaning to either call in to the podcast or write on the forum regarding this subject. I believe Rush did not know. In "Light" he was actually very friendly. Until the end when his personality did a 180. My theory is, Rush thought he was going to die so he was friendly. But after this didnt happen, he changed. Why? Because he think he doesn't want to grow any emotional bonds with anyone. In Air Pt 1 we see Rush looking at a picture. Did this person in his life die? Leave him? We don't know but what I do believe is Rush doesn't not want to be liked. The turning point in his personality was when Young slapped him on the back thanking him for a good job.

In the end, Rush never acknowledged the question if he knew because he just wanted to seem like a "Dick". And he did it on purpose.

I agree with you that he doesn't want to bond overmuch, however, I think that the general politeness and actually rather sweet Rush we saw in Light was the real Rush. He pushes people away for several reasons. One is, as you said, he doesn't want to create bonds. He pretty much says so when he pulls out of the lottery. Bunch of strangers, etc. The second is that at every turn, they are, for no real reason, questioning his professionalism. Their personal dislike has turned to professional dislike and it's lead by Young who should not be undermining him at every turn. That bit in a previous episode where Young actually says that Rush might be creating fires so he can put them out - why would he do that? He already knows he's indispensable. Young is acting very unprofessional.

garhkal
November 5th, 2009, 03:07 PM
He didn't know until he went to the console and checked. The lack of reaction to Young's accusation, I think, was simply that he either (a) doesn't care (and I think he does) or (b) doesn't react because that's what Young expects.

IMO b is more likely.

EllieVee
November 5th, 2009, 03:24 PM
IMO b is more likely.

The accusation to Rush, perhaps, is hardly worthy of a retort.

Pharaoh Atem
November 5th, 2009, 03:27 PM
no he didn't after rewatch

Sam StarEagle
November 5th, 2009, 09:10 PM
I have yet to to any idea of how much he does/doesn't know, suspects, or WANTS to know about the ship yet...and I sooo love that I don't, cause he it just makes him that much more interesting.

Thunderbird 2
November 7th, 2009, 11:45 AM
Let's say for a moment he did know in advance, beyond just a hunch. In that case... why his actions as we saw them? He didn't gain anything by choosing to act the way he did. He didn't even accept the goodwill of his shipmates afterward. Somehow I doubt his plan was "Hide it from everyone, then cause Young to be more suspicious of me by letting on that I knew."

Soooo I don't think he knew any more than we viewers.

I am not so sure. - Had the shuttle not been recovered, Camille, Scott, Riley and Johansen would all have been out the airlock so to speak, and they are all characters who have stood up to Rush at least once. - He doesn;t intimidate them. - That would have left only Young and Greer as serious competition against Rush in the battle of wills.

Mind you, guesswork on my part. (Shrugs).

EllieVee
November 7th, 2009, 02:27 PM
I am not so sure. - Had the shuttle not been recovered, Camille, Scott, Riley and Johansen would all have been out the airlock so to speak, and they are all characters who have stood up to Rush at least once. - He doesn;t intimidate them. - That would have left only Young and Greer as serious competition against Rush in the battle of wills.

Mind you, guesswork on my part. (Shrugs).

Uh, that suggests that Rush rigged the lottery, which he clearly didn't do.

Hibblette
November 8th, 2009, 03:41 PM
No he didn't know.

This ep is the ep when I began to realize Young is crazy.

That whole reaction at the end because Rush wasn't "whoopin' it up" with the rest of them tells me that Young is crazy.

He thinks that everyone has to have the same emotions that he has. Also his ex-wife and his behavior with her says so much.

I think this episode was showing us that Young is crazy.

EllieVee
November 8th, 2009, 03:59 PM
No he didn't know.

This ep is the ep when I began to realize Young is crazy.

That whole reaction at the end because Rush wasn't "whoopin' it up" with the rest of them tells me that Young is crazy.

He thinks that everyone has to have the same emotions that he has. Also his ex-wife and his behavior with her says so much.

I think this episode was showing us that Young is crazy.

Perhaps not crazy but aiming for paranoid certainly.

Hibblette
November 8th, 2009, 05:03 PM
Perhaps not crazy but aiming for paranoid certainly.

Paranoid is just one of those traits that I think does not make for good officer material.

Of course it's great for putting a little angst in the script but as a leading character I don't know.

Frank Burns in charge-wow!