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View Full Version : Could Col. Cromwell be Alive?



Sami_
October 23rd, 2009, 05:17 PM
Obviously we'll never get an answer to this but in A Matter of Time in Season 2 Cromwell got sucked into the stargate connected to the black hole not long before the bomb was set off to make the stargate jump to another address.

Could Cromwell have exited the stargate on the planet that the wormhole jumped to just as Jack and Sam did when they ended up in Antartica?

If time was slowing down the entire length of the wormhole then theres no way there was enough time for him to actually reach the planet with the black hole.

Bareassedmunky
October 23rd, 2009, 05:42 PM
Obviously we'll never get an answer to this but in A Matter of Time in Season 2 Cromwell got sucked into the stargate connected to the black hole not long before the bomb was set off to make the stargate jump to another address.

Could Cromwell have exited the stargate on the planet that the wormhole jumped to just as Jack and Sam did when they ended up in Antartica?

If time was slowing down the entire length of the wormhole then theres no way there was enough time for him to actually reach the planet with the black hole.

I would presume that time wasn't slowing down within the wormhole since a wormhole is a hole through space and time. If that is directly contradicted in the show, then thats ******** and makes no sense. So he would have arrived on the other side before the bomb went off, and then would be royally screwed.

But on a side issue - he would be on the planet, living a very slow death for a very long time...but he would be dead from our perspective as time is flowing relativity faster for us, and we now see a black hole not a star, therefore he must be dead. So is he dead or alive?


...here Schrödinger*



*Thats supposed to be me calling a cat...which is a hard concept to convey using just the medium of typing

garhkal
October 24th, 2009, 02:02 PM
I think he got sucked to the planet being consumed before jack blew th bomb..

General Jumper One
October 24th, 2009, 02:32 PM
No because remember Sam dialed that planet, then sent the gate into the sun, and in the books Stargate SG-1 A Matter of Honor and The Cost of Honor Sam creates an anti-gravity device to fight the blackhole and save SG-10 and they escape just before they dial in and the sun comes through the gate destroying the planet.

Jeff O'Connor
October 24th, 2009, 03:47 PM
Are the books considered canonical?

General Jumper One
October 24th, 2009, 05:56 PM
Are the books considered canonical?

Yes, they help fill the mysteries that the writers never finished into episodes. You should read one, there are as good as episodes, even better because they're not shortened to fit the 45 min time frame.:jack::tealc::sam::daniel::cameron::vala::jonas::hammond::sheppard::mckay: :weir::ronan::teyla::ford::beckett:

lordofseas
October 24th, 2009, 06:00 PM
Are the books considered canonical?

I never heard a writer or anyone officially say they are, they're just published fanwank to me.

General Jumper One
October 24th, 2009, 07:07 PM
I never heard a writer or anyone officially say they are, they're just published fanwank to me.

Look up canonical, a writer or anyone official doesn't have to say that it is.:hammondanime01:


Yes, they help fill the mysteries that the writers never finished into episodes. You should read one, there are as good as episodes, even better because they're not shortened to fit the 45 min time frame.:jack::tealc::sam::daniel::cameron::vala::jonas::hammond::sheppard::mckay: :weir::ronan::teyla::ford::beckett:

amconway
October 30th, 2009, 04:40 PM
Are the books considered canonical?

No, none of the books are canon. Some are more successful than others at rendering decent characterization (some being horrendous), but they are essentially professional fan fiction. To be canon, they would have to be done with direct participation from the production company such as story approval and oversight.

Bareassedmunky
October 30th, 2009, 05:23 PM
such as story approval and oversight.

I'm not disagreeing with the general jist of what you are saying, I wouldn't consider books to be canon. But surly there must be some sort of process whereby the reject stupid ideas and/or bad writing. There must be some sort of story approval.

I'm especially thinking this as the Alliance game was cancelled because it didn't live up to the 'standards expected of the franchise'

amconway
October 30th, 2009, 05:34 PM
I'm not disagreeing with the general jist of what you are saying, I wouldn't consider books to be canon. But surly there must be some sort of process whereby the reject stupid ideas and/or bad writing. There must be some sort of story approval.

It doesn't just have to be not stupid and well written, it has to be what the creators want said, and absolutely in character. The only canon media tie-ins that I've ever heard of are the Joss Whedon comic books, and that's because he's directly and continually involved.

Edit: The first books were comissioned by MGM and they were such dreck, they never tried that again. Fandemonium has a license to produce what is essentially fan fiction, although they have recently moved to professional 'media tie-in writers.' This means that while they may (very arguably) know more about writing, they know much less about the series. My personal feeling about the books is not that they're badly written, but that, as fan writers, most wear their genre preferences on their sleeves (angst, h/c primarily) rather than writing good, well-rounded adventure stories. In any case, once the license is out there, that ends MGMs involvement. It's purely media tie-in, not canon.


I'm especially thinking this as the Alliance game was cancelled because it didn't live up to the 'standards expected of the franchise'

That was Jowood that said that, not MGM or the production company. The problem was between the game development company and Jowood. It may not have actually had anything to do with quality, but may have been about money. Storylines from that game and the one currently in development have no relationship to canon either.

Bareassedmunky
October 30th, 2009, 05:56 PM
It doesn't just have to be not stupid and well written, it has to be what the creators want said, and absolutely in character. The only canon media tie-ins that I've ever heard of are the Joss Whedon comic books, and that's because he's directly and continually involved.

Joss Whedon's work is slightly different in that regard because he is a much more clear figurehead. While stargate has Brad Wright as the main head honcho, it seems to be more of a collaborate effort than anything, with a few other people having significant control.

The fact that the direction of the show is governed by a few more voices means that, an author who is writing an official book has as much a right to influence the direction of the canon as any other staff writer.


Edit: The first books were comissioned by MGM and they were such dreck, they never tried that again. Fandemonium has a license to produce what is essentially fan fiction, although they have recently moved to professional 'media tie-in writers.' This means that while they may (very arguably) know more about writing, they know much less about the series. My personal feeling about the books is not that they're badly written, but that, as fan writers, most wear their genre preferences on their sleeves (angst, h/c primarily) rather than writing good, well-rounded adventure stories. In any case, once the license is out there, that ends MGMs involvement. It's purely media tie-in, not canon.

<edit> Fair enough - that sounds like a stupid idea to me to simply sell the license and release creative control, but if that is the way it is all signed and sealed - consider my previous point to be a 'how it should be' then



That was Jowood that said that, not MGM or the production company. The problem was between the game development company and Jowood. It may not have actually had anything to do with quality, but may have been about money. Storylines from that game and the one currently in development have no relationship to canon either.

I was thinking more in terms of quality control of the brand from a buisness perspective more than a creative one, so I took that to mean that the general quality of the gameplay was not up to scratch rather than anything to do with storylines. And any theory about that just being a cover for financial reasons is speculation, and we are not really in an informed position to speculate on such things.


But I have heard quotes from Wright saying that they will try to link storylines of the show with Worlds - which would imply some sort of canon link between them. But from what I hear about the game, I don't like the sound of that. (if you ask me, there have been too many compromises to satisfy the existing style of contemporary games, and forsaken the style and feel of the show)

amconway
October 30th, 2009, 06:04 PM
an author who is writing an official book has as much a right to influence the direction of the canon as any other staff writer.

There is no official line of books, though, and no plans for having any. Even the first series weren't 'official', it was just a license, and the Fandemonium books are in no way official. It's a licensed fan outlet.


But I have heard quotes from Wright saying that they will try to link storylines of the show with Worlds - which would imply some sort of canon link between them. But from what I hear about the game, I don't like the sound of that. (if you ask me, there have been too many compromises to satisfy the existing style of contemporary games, and forsaken the style and feel of the show)

Those statements were made before SG-1 was cancelled. The production company doesn't seem to have been involved outside initial planning and consultation, and doesn't seem to have been involved at all at all for the last couple of years. While they were going to have some back and forth between the game and SG-1, the game still wasn't going to be canon, it was more of a fun little extra. Especially in an MMORPG, canon gets sacrificed for playability and balancing classes.

Bareassedmunky
October 30th, 2009, 06:13 PM
There is no official line of books, though, and no plans for having any. Even the first series weren't 'official', it was just a license, and the Fandemonium books are in no way official. It's a licensed fan outlet.


Thats like saying that your local McDonald's isn't 'official'. The fact that it is licensed rather than being written, printed and sold without permission makes it official.



Those statements were made before SG-1 was cancelled. The production company doesn't seem to have been involved outside initial planning and consultation, and doesn't seem to have been involved at all at all for the last couple of years. While they were going to have some back and forth between the game and SG-1, the game still wasn't going to be canon, it was more of a fun little extra. Especially in an MMORPG, canon gets sacrificed for playability and balancing classes.


They still could through movies, or earth based Universe stuff - but like you said, I can't really see a proper tie in due to the nature of MMORPG's

amconway
October 30th, 2009, 06:27 PM
Thats like saying that your local McDonald's isn't 'official'. The fact that it is licensed rather than being written, printed and sold without permission makes it official.

Not really. It works differently with media tie-ins. All the license means it that you can charge for any created stargate materials that fall under the license. You'll notice that while there are many non-fiction books about stargate, only a few are called 'official', but all are legally produced under license.


They still could through movies, or earth based Universe stuff - but like you said, I can't really see a proper tie in due to the nature of MMORPG's

Agreed. Personally, I'm afraid it may be a moot point. The game seems less and less likely. It's well over a year behind schedule.

garhkal
October 30th, 2009, 07:58 PM
I'm not disagreeing with the general jist of what you are saying, I wouldn't consider books to be canon. But surly there must be some sort of process whereby the reject stupid ideas and/or bad writing. There must be some sort of story approval.

I'm especially thinking this as the Alliance game was cancelled because it didn't live up to the 'standards expected of the franchise'

It is like with all the star wars and trek novels. If not approved of by lucas or roddenbury as well as veted by them, it is not canon.

Pharaoh Atem
October 30th, 2009, 08:35 PM
nothing left of him

amconway
October 31st, 2009, 12:03 AM
nothing left of him

I have to disagree. He would have traveled through the wormhole as normal then been stuck in the time dilation field of the black hole. He's probably still standing there, inches from the event horizon.

spinny magee
October 31st, 2009, 01:16 AM
Well its been what 10years now....so i'm going to say hes either dead or having a tea party with death before entering the afterlife.

amconway
October 31st, 2009, 01:19 AM
Well its been what 10years now....so i'm going to say hes either dead or having a tea party with death before entering the afterlife.
__________________

Well, of course he's going to die, that's a given, but since we have no idea about the time dilation of the black hole, we have no idea if he's dead or not. It's like Schrodinger's cat.

escyos
October 31st, 2009, 02:47 AM
well the fact that carter TOLD us what planet the gate had jumped to, i think its safe to assume they sent a malp to see if he was alive...and he wasnt

Sami_
November 1st, 2009, 08:22 AM
well the fact that carter TOLD us what planet the gate had jumped to, i think its safe to assume they sent a malp to see if he was alive...and he wasnt

When did it say he wasn't?

General Jumper One
November 1st, 2009, 10:28 AM
Colonel Cromwell got sucked through the gate to the blackhole before the gate jumped.

ZoSo
November 3rd, 2009, 09:12 AM
I think its a toss-up as to whether he made it through the gate or not. The event horizon was deformed and spiraling like a tornado. There's just no way to know if the gate would successfully dematerialize a human body in that state. But if he did make it through he would have been thrown out the other side at considerable speed. If he didn't get knocked out he and the sg team that was stranded would've had to take cover before the bomb was detonated. Though the explosion cut the connection to the black hole planet's gate, some of the explosive force would probably have made it through.

Then they would have had to survive on their own for some time. But due to relativistic effects, it wouldn't have been very long to them before Carter opened a wormhole to them and sent the gate into a star. In which case the planet's surface would have been bathed in radiation and they surely would have died.

So it could be that Carter killed Cromwell and the stranded sg team.. But they would've died before reaching the event horizon anyway because the planet's atmosphere would be the first to go. I only mention this because if I was being sucked into a black hole I would want to experience it all the way to the singularity, because right now science cannot tell us what happens with any certainty.