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Alder
October 19th, 2009, 04:23 AM
...or odd questions and thoughts!

I've just finished watching season one on DVD so I can start from the beginning of season two on ITV4. There's a few wee bits and bobs that have brought out my nitpicky side. Not criticisms really, more observations, and sometimes things that I wonder if I've just missed, or picked up wrongly.

For example:
John Druitt becoming Jack the Ripper. I was under the impression that his use of his power had unbalanced him and driven him to commit the crimes, then when Tesla tortured him, his sanity was restored. But if it was the use of his ability that drove him crazy in the first place, why is Magnus (and the others for that matter) apparently fine about him using it now? Aren't they endangering his newfound sanity again? Or was it a side-effect of injecting the blood in the first place, something that could have happened to any of them?

Another:
The appearance of Magnus's father. Now, she's...157ish, as I recall, and from the flashbacks to her memories of her father, I'd say he's at least 30 years older than her. But she never once is surprised by his reappearence. I understand that her world is full of strange and wonderful things, but why didn't anyone ask how he was still alive? As far as I know, he wasn't involved in the whole 'inject pure vampire blood' thing, or surely we'd be talking about "The Six" and not "The Five". So...why/how is he still alive, and why wasn't Magnus even a wee bit curious about it?

Also:
How/when Magnus got pregnant. This puzzles me a bit, perhaps because we don't really know much about the back story. Nowadays it's the norm for couples to sleep together before marriage, and waiting is the exception rather than the rule. But in the late Victorian era that was a pretty big taboo. Granted, Magnus was already pushing the boundaries - attending university for example. But there was a great difference then between what would be seen as slightly unladylike eccentricities, and getting pregnant before marriage, which would be seen as unacceptably immoral. (And yeah, the relative standards for men versus women were completely hypocritical at the time!) Laying aside the rights and wrongs of people's views, she would be putting all that she was working for at risk.
Coming from that, she says that she "put the fetus on ice". (After discovering John was the Ripper?) I'm curious as to how she went about that, even given her intelligence and abilities. Again, this is a matter of the time, really - I could see her managing it now with a lifetime of experience, but then she was just starting out...unless we're just to 'handwave' it as an example of her brilliance.
Or maybe Ashley was the very first test-tube baby...which oddly enough, I think would make more sense given the circumstances and the characters involved!

And last one for now:
When they are trying to get the keys to reach the last sample of 'pure blood'. Watson and Druitt's problems are close together, so they're meant to work together to solve them. Tesla's is very specific to his ability also. But Magnus's problem seems to have nothing to do with her longevity, but instead is a sort of lateral thinking problem. Again, it's more just an observation, but I was a bit disappointed! I expected something more specific and dramatic... Still, it was put together by her dad, I suppose, so he really just wanted something that only she could work out.

Anyone else have any thoughts? :)

jasminaGo
October 19th, 2009, 05:22 AM
The first question about John and his powers. From what I understand, using his power drove him insane and there is a possibility for him to fall back into his old ways.

Season 2
It's mentioned briefly in the first ep of S2. And there should be an ep later on with more of an explanation about what exactly happened to him before.

Gregory Magnus was frozen, not sure how but there is a short scene in Warriors when he wakes up and looks at his hand covered in ice. His body is found later by the Cabal. He's not immortal and shouldn't have any special powers. Helen isn't really surprised when she sees him because after he went missing I think she always hoped that one day somehow she'll be able to find him, and that hope hasn't diminished over the years. After everything she's seen and done it was possible for him to survive.

How Ashley came to be - People sleep around, always have, always will. :p It's just that most of the time it hasn't been as advertised as it is today. Helen and John loved each other, they were engaged, so why not take their relationship to the next level?
Amanda mentioned somewhere (in an interview or a commentary) that Helen used her father's technology to freeze the fetus. And as it was shown in Revelations part 2, Gregory had some really nice and advanced toys to play with.

Helen's test - As Will said, simply showing up after 150 years is great achievement. And she was probably the only one who knew her father well enough to follow his reasoning find the right answer.


Anyway... those are my random ramblings on the those subjects. :p

ann_sgcfan
October 19th, 2009, 10:24 AM
Good questions! I think many that are following the show had the same questions, at some point, that you have now so you are not alone. I think jasminaGo answered you well. I'll add a little.

John - There is an episode coming up in season 2 that will explain a lot more. But yes in episode 2 of season 2 Helen basically says Tesla cured you, but she didn't think it would last. There are different views among fandom some people believe he won't turn evil again and others think his power will turn him back (I tend to agree more with the 2nd opinion).

Gregory - Yeah I agree with jasminaGo he was frozen and Helen said she never stopped looking/ hoping he was alive. Although, I thought the Cabal was the ones that thawed him out. Which would bring up the question how does a man who is lost in a very hot climate end up frozen? Didn't Helen say he was going to or was in Mecca and she never saw him again?

Helen pregnant with Ashley - ah yes the same question many have had since the webisodes - how did she freeze Ashley and bring her to term 100 years later? Many opinions and we don't know yet :)

The Test during the Five. - I wondered about this too, but then I couldn't figure out how you would make up a test for someone that has lived two lifetimes and could go on for two more. However, Gregory could test on how well she knew him. She understood the question was more in regard to the Noah reference (Which according to Helen was a reference Gregory enjoyed) instead of a simple addition problem. And most people would have simply seen it as a math problem and answered it incorrectly.

Again good questions. :D

antoa
October 19th, 2009, 10:34 AM
About John's madness - in the commentary for season 1 eps Revelations Part 1 and 2, they talk about how he is subtly starting to lose his control again by the end of the episode. It's definitely not obvious, as Chris didn't play it over the top, but after hearing that, I could pick up on the subtle hints. I think he will slowly go mad again, but it will just take a while. I don't think it was an overnight transformation the first time either.

ann_sgcfan
October 19th, 2009, 10:42 AM
About John's madness - in the commentary for season 1 eps Revelations Part 1 and 2, they talk about how he is subtly starting to lose his control again by the end of the episode. It's definitely not obvious, as Chris didn't play it over the top, but after hearing that, I could pick up on the subtle hints. I think he will slowly go mad again, but it will just take a while. I don't think it was an overnight transformation the first time either.

Yes I agree. Do you think they will show a backstory on when Helen found out about John? Perhaps we will see more in John's eppy this season? I too think it was a slow fade to madness in the past or else Helen would have picked up on the difference very quickly. That would be a great angst filled episode if they ever to decide to do that. :)

antoa
October 19th, 2009, 10:45 AM
Yes I agree. Do you think they will show a backstory on when Helen found out about John? Perhaps we will see more in John's eppy this season? I too think it was a slow fade to madness in the past or else Helen would have picked up on the difference very quickly. That would be a great angst filled episode if they ever to decide to do that. :)
I would love to see the story of when he first went mad and when Helen began to realise it. Not only would there be angst, but also pretty Victorian dresses.

EvenstarSRV
October 19th, 2009, 12:26 PM
The Test during the Five. - I wondered about this too, but then I couldn't figure out how you would make up a test for someone that has lived two lifetimes and could go on for two more. However, Gregory could test on how well she knew him. She understood the question was more in regard to the Noah reference (Which according to Helen was a reference Gregory enjoyed) instead of a simple addition problem. And most people would have simply seen it as a math problem and answered it incorrectly.


For Helen's test, didn't she have to look into an eyepiece before the door to the testing room opened? If perhaps her father keyed that trigger to Helen's eye, then no one else would've been able to open the door. And I agree, I think the puzzle did test how much Helen understood her father's thought processes.


I would love to see the story of when he first went mad and when Helen began to realise it. Not only would there be angst, but also pretty Victorian dresses.

That would be great, hopefully in season 3! :)

helenmagnus23
October 20th, 2009, 03:57 AM
Originally Posted by antoa
I would love to see the story of when he first went mad and when Helen began to realise it. Not only would there be angst, but also pretty Victorian dresses.

Me to :)

I'm realy looking forward to seeing eps 10 it sound's realy interesting ;):)i love my ship :)

Mousie
October 20th, 2009, 04:03 AM
The 2 test that where dodgiest where Tesla's and Clara's IMO. John's and James's was logical, it used both of them and relied on their trust in each other (at least when Gregory set it up) and couldn't have been completed by anyone else, they had to use John's ability to get inside. The same with Helen's, John couldn't teleport in because he didn't know what was on the other side, how big the room was ect and it used a retina scan to open the door, combined with the fact that only she would be able to work out the puzzle meant Helen was the only one who could do her test.

However John could presumably have completed Tesla's test, he could have just 'ported passed the capacitors(?) to the key and back out again seeing as he had line of sight, the same with Clara's test. He could have just 'ported to the pedestal, grabbed the key and back again. The only downside to that was that he wouldn't have known that collapsing too much of the floor set the building shaking which only stopped when they put the keys in the central pedestal.

kes
October 20th, 2009, 05:32 AM
I always saw it like:
if Druitt did try that the room would colapse. Cos no one passing tru the tunel (Tesla's teste) and then getting the key would trigger a fail safe, right? Makes sense? or just an EM shield stoping him from doing it LOL

Mousie
October 20th, 2009, 05:59 AM
Yeah but he could be quick enough to get in and out. The room wouldn't collapse until he's in there and would take a few seconds - Plenty of time! :)

kes
October 20th, 2009, 07:35 AM
So EM shield :p

Alexandria's_Dreaming
October 20th, 2009, 08:34 AM
My #1 question....

My biggest question is why would Tesla save Druitt in the first place. Aren't they rivals for Helen? If so, why did he save him and essentially 'shock' him into his senses? Any speculation, or reasoning I missed?

kes
October 20th, 2009, 09:08 AM
My #1 question....

My biggest question is why would Tesla save Druitt in the first place. Aren't they rivals for Helen? If so, why did he save him and essentially 'shock' him into his senses? Any speculation, or reasoning I missed?

He wanted his help to make his vamps smarter. he tortured him but it turned out that it helped Druitt.

ann_sgcfan
October 20th, 2009, 11:16 AM
My #1 question....

My biggest question is why would Tesla save Druitt in the first place. Aren't they rivals for Helen? If so, why did he save him and essentially 'shock' him into his senses? Any speculation, or reasoning I missed?

That's another good question. I don't think Tesla meant to shock John into his senses. My opinion (and that's all it is) I think when he saw John dying he thought one or two things. 1) Here is my chance to determine if the source blood is really the key to give the mindless drones some cognitive ability. Because as you said (and I Agree) there is no love loss between John and Tesla. What is the worst that could happen to John - I'm sure Tesla thought he would die ... Unfortunate I'm sure something far worse happened in Tesla's mind - John's madness left him. 2) Tesla thought he John would help him, because John understood what it meant to be so desperate for something. John was desperate enough to kill Ashley to obtain Helen's blood. Tesla was desperate to be rid of the Cabal because they hunted him at every turn.


I think it's funny both Tesla and John see the other as the most dangerous and untrustworthy of the the group. I think they are a like in someways. LOL poor Helen always attracts the bad boys.

Alder
October 20th, 2009, 01:46 PM
Lots of interesting answers and speculations, I'm just picking out a couple of bits that made me think more. :)


Gregory Magnus was frozen, not sure how but there is a short scene in Warriors when he wakes up and looks at his hand covered in ice. His body is found later by the Cabal.
Frozen? Huh...I must've been eating my dinner and didn't spot that. :o
Of course, now that begs the question, frozen how? And...how was he 'thawed alive'?


Helen and John loved each other, they were engaged, so why not take their relationship to the next level?

It's just a very late-20th century view, that's all... Yeah, people still did it, but the consequences were different. Particularly before the birth control...having unprotected sex is daft enough now, let alone then!

About John's madness - in the commentary for season 1 eps Revelations Part 1 and 2, they talk about how he is subtly starting to lose his control again by the end of the episode.
I have to admit, I think that's a bit of a shame if that's what happens, particularly as he was being actively encouraged to use his ability by others. That seems...well...wrong. I'm quite disappointed in them, in fact!

Oo! Another question!
Magnus gained longevity. Watson gained...extra...brain...power. The guy-whose-name-I-don't-yet-remember could become invisible. Druitt - the ability to teleport. And Tesla went all vampirical. Now...

Here's the thing...Tesla - still alive all this time later. Druitt - still alive all this time later. Other guy - alive till the...60s? I think? Watson was still alive, but apparently kept that way by his mechanical suit thing.

Now, it seems to me that two - Tesla and Druitt - seem to have got longevity in addition to their other abilities. Can't really say about the Invisible Man, since we don't know when he was born, but if it was similar to the others, it'd put him at about the 100 mark when he died. (Not impossible these days, but still rare enough to be unusual).

Why does Magnus have longevity only? It seems as though she might've been slightly short-changed...:D

EH-T
October 20th, 2009, 03:06 PM
Oo! Another question!
Magnus gained longevity. Watson gained...extra...brain...power. The guy-whose-name-I-don't-yet-remember could become invisible. Druitt - the ability to teleport. And Tesla went all vampirical. Now...

Here's the thing...Tesla - still alive all this time later. Druitt - still alive all this time later. Other guy - alive till the...60s? I think? Watson was still alive, but apparently kept that way by his mechanical suit thing.

Now, it seems to me that two - Tesla and Druitt - seem to have got longevity in addition to their other abilities. Can't really say about the Invisible Man, since we don't know when he was born, but if it was similar to the others, it'd put him at about the 100 mark when he died. (Not impossible these days, but still rare enough to be unusual).

Why does Magnus have longevity only? It seems as though she might've been slightly short-changed...:D

I've wondered about that too.

I think Tesla is immortal because he's a vampire. Think about him being impaled in The Five and "punched" by John. It's a result of his vampire DNA enhanced by the source blood. Helen is not immortal, just has the gift of longevity.

Druitt is harder to explain. I don't know why he hasn't aged. Presumably he did get the gift of longevity as well as the teleporting. Hopefully we will get a further explanation.

EvenstarSRV
October 20th, 2009, 04:23 PM
Druitt is harder to explain. I don't know why he hasn't aged. Presumably he did get the gift of longevity as well as the teleporting. Hopefully we will get a further explanation.

Maybe Helen's blood gives him some degree of longevity like hers, in addition to treating his madness?

Inward Wind
October 20th, 2009, 06:37 PM
I've wondered about that too.

I think Tesla is immortal because he's a vampire. Think about him being impaled in The Five and "punched" by John. It's a result of his vampire DNA enhanced by the source blood. Helen is not immortal, just has the gift of longevity.

Druitt is harder to explain. I don't know why he hasn't aged. Presumably he did get the gift of longevity as well as the teleporting. Hopefully we will get a further explanation.

I, three, have wondered about that. Not only does it make me think that Druitt and Telsa received the gift of longevity as well as their own gifts, it really makes me wonder if there is another gift that Helen has that we haven't seen....yet ;).

WishIwasJoes
October 20th, 2009, 07:08 PM
I think the more important question we could all be missing, Magnus thinks her gift was ONLY longevity, it would be awesome to see her have some other gift as well that she is in the dark about.

I think Tesla is still around because he is a Vampire. John used Magnus' blood, but still that explaination is a bit weak since her blood was infused with the source blood that John himself already had.

As to why we went mad, I LOVED the reason why in the webisode but that gift he had was far too broad and powerful.

Alexandria's_Dreaming
October 20th, 2009, 07:09 PM
I, three, have wondered about that. Not only does it make me think that Druitt and Telsa received the gift of longevity as well as their own gifts, it really makes me wonder if there is another gift that Helen has that we haven't seen....yet ;).

I agree. I think Helen has an un-shown ability waiting in the wings o be sprung on us.

Amalthea
October 20th, 2009, 10:08 PM
Druitt is where I think they get in a little bit of trouble when they talk about his gifts. In the webisodes, I got the impression that he did not get longevity, and rather his gift allows him to jump through space and time, so in effect, by the time we meet him, it's only been a few years since he and Helen "broke up", at least from his perspective.

In the TV show, it seems he got longevity too, which to me, somewhat diminishes the elegance in Helen's gift. Which is why I think TV Helen might have some untapped power, whereas I never thought that of Web Helen.

Mousie
October 20th, 2009, 11:47 PM
It does raise a few questions because if it is Helen's blood that enables John to still be alive you'd think she would have been giving it to Watson as well, especially so that he didn't have to rely on that machine.

kes
October 20th, 2009, 11:51 PM
For Magnus gift to work Druitt being alive has to be a result of Magnus blood.
Maybe she didnt give it to Watson because he never asked. Or maybe there's a side effect to the blood.
Maybe giving Druitt the blood helped him go mad.
I know his ability drives him mad but I got the vibe that if she hadnt given him the blood he wouldnt have lived long enough to go mad.

Mousie
October 20th, 2009, 11:53 PM
Simply put...too many questions and not enough answers yet....

kes
October 20th, 2009, 11:57 PM
Yeh, its the start of the 2nd season lol

Alder
October 21st, 2009, 01:49 AM
I think the more important question we could all be missing, Magnus thinks her gift was ONLY longevity, it would be awesome to see her have some other gift as well that she is in the dark about.
Now, that's an interesting thought...hmmm...

As to why we went mad, I LOVED the reason why in the webisode but that gift he had was far too broad and powerful.
Ah, now I haven't watched the webisodes yet. They're on the last DVD of my boxset though. (Be a bit weird watching them after seeing the series, I should think.)

antoa
October 21st, 2009, 10:59 AM
Druitt is where I think they get in a little bit of trouble when they talk about his gifts. In the webisodes, I got the impression that he did not get longevity, and rather his gift allows him to jump through space and time, so in effect, by the time we meet him, it's only been a few years since he and Helen "broke up", at least from his perspective.

In the TV show, it seems he got longevity too, which to me, somewhat diminishes the elegance in Helen's gift. Which is why I think TV Helen might have some untapped power, whereas I never thought that of Web Helen.
I am glad that they dropped the time travel aspect of his power in the series because it could be used too much as a cop-out - just save the day by going back in time. It would get overused and whenever it isn't used, fans will complain that it wasn't.

sweetviviane
October 21st, 2009, 01:59 PM
Any idea why her hair colour turned from blond to brown ?

Alexandria's_Dreaming
October 21st, 2009, 02:06 PM
Any idea why her hair colour turned from blond to brown ?

That is definitely weird in the flashbacks! Maybe longevity doesn't apply to grey hair. :) <jk>

antoa
October 21st, 2009, 02:09 PM
Any idea why her hair colour turned from blond to brown ?
Well, I know that I used to get tired of the same hair color after a couple years, I couldn't imagine keeping it the same for over 150 years. Besides, living that long, you'd have to change your look occasionally and move around a bit, otherwise some people might get suspicious :)