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corey2002
October 12th, 2009, 07:09 AM
Which is older? Atlantis or Destiny?
because destiny clearly LOOKS older, but some of its tech is much more modern(it has been in hyperspace for 100,000s of years-that would drain a ZPM pretty fast its using better power sources) and it was conceived of at the same time as the gates (otherwise not all of them would have 9 cheverons, it would have been an afterthought years later) but Atlantis was been said to be millions of years old compared to the Destiny being only hundreds of thousands
so which is older? The new looking Atlantis, or the broken down ol' Destiny?

The Prophet
October 12th, 2009, 07:18 AM
The Destiny. Which hasn't been in Hyperspace, it's been in FTL. Which was stated in the first episode.

And, Rush said at least hundreds of thousands. But we know that they sent off the Destiny before they went to Atlantis, as it was the prime of their civilisation. Before they fled the Plague.

Therefor, we know the Destiny is older.

In a fight, Altantis would win though. Just to throw that randomly in there :P

mirdin1992
October 12th, 2009, 08:30 AM
Atlantis hands down and I think TPTB should make a Sg timeline chart and post it so we can have a better understanding of whats going on, the way that it is doesn't make sense with Atlantis going to Pegasus millions of years ago and destiny being hundreds of thousands of years old.

Or maybe Atlantis bugded out before the plague hit, I don't know.

Control_Chair
October 12th, 2009, 09:06 AM
Destiny is older as it was launched from Earth during the height of the Ancients civilisation in the MW. Then some time (possibly thousands of years later) the plague struck and the Ancients left in Atlantis for Pegasus, why, because that galaxy had already been seeded with the primitive SGU gates and explored by the Destiny.


As for which would win in a fight I'd say Atlantis as it has more advanced tech (shields and weapons, drones would make mincemeat of the Destiny

_Famrir_
October 12th, 2009, 09:10 AM
the destiny is much older due to it being launched in the milky way and travelling to pegasus. Atlantis could have been built a few thousand years later making both ships of similar age but a few thousands years is alot of time so maybe that is why atlantis looks totally different. Also jsut a note but did anyone else notice that the destiny looks like the hull of an aurora? maybe that was the design of their ships when they used stones for their buildings.. i simply cant see a flying stone ship

Kailias
October 12th, 2009, 02:23 PM
You know... Atlantis used to be on earth, no one ever says how long it was there for. I personally think Destiny is older.. just a hunch. But it could be the other way around. Does anyone have any incontrovertible evidence of one or the other? Does anyone remember anyone saying anything that would give us the answer?

A few thousand years difference in time might not matter much technologically to the Ancients. If you have a technology that works well and there is no need to improve it, it doesn't improve. Why re-invent the wheel?... or the stargate for that matter...

I wonder if Destiny is the ship that the ancients originally used to flee to this galaxy from the Ori in. I believe in the Ark of Truth movie, you get a glimpse of the ship they take off in, if anyone has it on DVD and wouldn't mind checking.

lordofseas
October 12th, 2009, 06:59 PM
You know... Atlantis used to be on earth, no one ever says how long it was there for. I personally think Destiny is older.. just a hunch. But it could be the other way around. Does anyone have any incontrovertible evidence of one or the other? Does anyone remember anyone saying anything that would give us the answer?

A few thousand years difference in time might not matter much technologically to the Ancients. If you have a technology that works well and there is no need to improve it, it doesn't improve. Why re-invent the wheel?... or the stargate for that matter...

I wonder if Destiny is the ship that the ancients originally used to flee to this galaxy from the Ori in. I believe in the Ark of Truth movie, you get a glimpse of the ship they take off in, if anyone has it on DVD and wouldn't mind checking.

Nope.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/stargate/images/5/59/Alteranship3.jpg (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/stargate/images/5/59/Alteranship3.jpg)

This doesn't really look like the Destiny. And in this case, Stargate Wiki is reliable.

jhkplaya888
October 12th, 2009, 11:46 PM
Michael writes: “If Atlantis left for Pegasus “Several Million Years Ago” according to “Rising”, was Rush mistaken in his estimate that Destiny left Earth “Hundreds of Thousands” of years ago?”

Answer: He misspoke or was speaking sort of off-hand, assuming he wasn’t going to be called on it by a knowledgeable fan.

destiny is older then what was mentioned in the show - from joes blog

McgillionFan
October 13th, 2009, 12:21 AM
I too think the Destiny is older. Because it looks older that's why i say it is lol and plus Rush did say something too.

corey2002
October 14th, 2009, 04:24 AM
see but its the power that gets me-100,000s of years in ftl with a shield drains power-atlantis barely made the jump from Pegasus to earth without running out of juice. doesnt that make the destiny's power source better/more efficient and therefore newer?

The Prophet
October 14th, 2009, 04:32 AM
see but its the power that gets me-100,000s of years in ftl with a shield drains power-atlantis barely made the jump from Pegasus to earth without running out of juice. doesnt that make the destiny's power source better/more efficient and therefore newer?

FTL must use less power than Hyperdrive. Also, it makes periodic stops on it's journey, so perhaps it's able to recharge somehow.

Maybe FTL is more economic for short jumps with resting periods. Perhaps it's slower than Hyperdrive.

But over-all, Hyperdrive must be better for longer jumps without rests. Perhaps being faster than Hyperdrive, but less economic when it comes to power considerations.

Or, perhaps whatever powers the Destiny is made from a very rare substance that they've been unable to replicate/ find more of. They could have, due to some unknown anomaly, created a perfect energy supply, something perhaps like Project Arcturis, and then been unable to recreate the exact conditions again.

PacoJr67
October 14th, 2009, 05:07 AM
see but its the power that gets me-100,000s of years in ftl with a shield drains power-atlantis barely made the jump from Pegasus to earth without running out of juice. doesnt that make the destiny's power source better/more efficient and therefore newer?


not necessarily, if the speed of the destiny is slower than even a basic hyperdrive (some people have done the math on this) it could be using a lot less power.

Alterran1.
October 14th, 2009, 03:42 PM
I think the Destiny looks more like an Aurora class warship, at least the exterior anyway.

_Famrir_
October 14th, 2009, 05:48 PM
I think the Destiny looks more like an Aurora class warship, at least the exterior anyway.

yea ive noticed that too i have a theory that their ships have that overall design while the cities (atlantis was a city first ship second) looked like atlantis or maybe the architectural design is that of during the stone period in ancient history since u cant really make ships out of stones.

guppy338
October 17th, 2009, 02:55 AM
it is older that atlantis it was biult before the use of the ata jean

Kailias
October 17th, 2009, 08:25 AM
That doesn't really mean anything. Atlantis was more or less stationary. Destiny was out of reach. Atlantis could have been updated with the ATA gene requirement as the technology developed. Really, there was no need for Atlantis to have an ATA gene requirement before the wraith and other threats appeared.


Also i was thinking about it.... I think Destiny may be much faster than a regular hyperdrive. For this reason. A stargate can typically dial to any other Stargate in the galaxy (in the same gate network) without much trouble. Why is it, when they needed something... calcium carbonate, the ship had to fly them to a certain place before dropping out of FTL and allowing for gate usage. Why not just immediately drop from FTL and dial that planet when Rush informed the computer of the problem? I mean Stargates have a pretty long range.

I mean maybe the ship couldn't drop out of FTL until a certain point, and once it did stop it could only stay stopped for 12 hours. But apparently at worst just killing the power, will stop the ship so.... Any theories?

And i suppose if you were intent on sending a ship out further than anything had ever been before... Why wouldn't you equip it with the fastest drive imaginable?

_Famrir_
October 17th, 2009, 08:43 AM
ata gene

jhkplaya888
October 18th, 2009, 12:33 AM
In ep 4 (darkness) rush said destiny was traveling for like a million years

SGAFirenity
October 18th, 2009, 01:53 AM
That doesn't really mean anything. Atlantis was more or less stationary. Destiny was out of reach. Atlantis could have been updated with the ATA gene requirement as the technology developed. Really, there was no need for Atlantis to have an ATA gene requirement before the wraith and other threats appeared.


Also i was thinking about it.... I think Destiny may be much faster than a regular hyperdrive. For this reason. A stargate can typically dial to any other Stargate in the galaxy (in the same gate network) without much trouble. Why is it, when they needed something... calcium carbonate, the ship had to fly them to a certain place before dropping out of FTL and allowing for gate usage. Why not just immediately drop from FTL and dial that planet when Rush informed the computer of the problem? I mean Stargates have a pretty long range.

I mean maybe the ship couldn't drop out of FTL until a certain point, and once it did stop it could only stay stopped for 12 hours. But apparently at worst just killing the power, will stop the ship so.... Any theories?

And i suppose if you were intent on sending a ship out further than anything had ever been before... Why wouldn't you equip it with the fastest drive imaginable?

I agree with the bolded part. On Earth there was no need for the ATA gene but in Pegasus there was the wraith, a threat to Atlantis and the ancients. So by updating Atlantis with the ATA gene, if the wraith ever got onto Atlantis or tried to use anything ancient, the wraith wouldn't be able to operate it. Whereas on Destiny it was never updated with the ATA gene because there was no need for it. Having the ATA gene doesn't prove anything.

--------

In my opinion, I think Atlantis is older because the hyperdrive in the Destiny is much more hightech than Atlantis. Plus Destiny's power source is better. I mean Atlantis' ZPM was pratically drained by the time the expedition got there whereas the Destiny still had power when Rush and his team got there. Why would the ancients build a ship with a powerful hyperdrive and power source and then build Atlantis with lesser tech? That doesn't really make sense.

And what about the Stargate differences? The Earth gate is obviously the first gate because that's where the ancients originated. The Atlantis gate is similar to the Earth gate besides the fact that it's blue and has star consellations on it. Then the Destiny gate completely spins while dialing, and uses a handheld device to dial.

So, if Destiny was built before Atlantis than why isn't the Atlantis gate like the Destiny gate? Technology goes forward not backwards. Why would the ancients build a gate like the Destiny gate and then go backwards in technology and build the Atlantis gate similar to the Earth gate. A gate that needs a DHD to dial (without it they can't dial), whereas the Destiny gate uses a handheld device to dial.

Now to me that makes no sense, so right there that must mean that Atlantis came first then they built the Destiny.

jhkplaya888
October 18th, 2009, 02:17 AM
So, if Destiny was built before Atlantis than why isn't the Atlantis gate like the Destiny gate? Technology goes forward not backwards. Why would the ancients build a gate like the Destiny gate and then go backwards in technology and build the Atlantis gate similar to the Earth gate. A gate that needs a DHD to dial (without it they can't dial), whereas the Destiny gate uses a handheld device to dial.

Now to me that makes no sense, so right there that must mean that Atlantis came first then they built the Destiny.

you got it all wrong no offense...but Atlantis's gate is far superior to earths and destinies gates. Destiny's gate is the oldest and junked model. The fact that it spins and has horrible range is evidence of that. And the producers said SGU's gates are the oldest and least advanced. Also you don't need the DHD to dial as in Atlantis's gates they have puddle jumpers that are capable of dialing the gate...

also when you said the hyperdrive is more advanced on deastiny...not even close...ftl is only better in terms of energy...atlantis has a fully functional hyperdrive and a wormhole drive.

SGAFirenity
October 18th, 2009, 02:31 AM
you got it all wrong no offense...but Atlantis's gate is far superior to earths and destinies gates. Destiny's gate is the oldest and junked model. The fact that it spins and has horrible range is evidence of that. And the producers said SGU's gates are the oldest and least advanced. Also you don't need the DHD to dial as in Atlantis's gates they have puddle jumpers that are capable of dialing the gate...

also when you said the hyperdrive is more advanced on deastiny...not even close...ftl is only better in terms of energy...atlantis has a fully functional hyperdrive and a wormhole drive.

Right... :o ...my bad. Hmm....now I'm not sure about which one is oldest. Now I'm thinking probably the Destiny because as I said in the other post technology moves forward not back. So if thats the case then it makes sense that Destiny is older because it has that crappy gate. Whereas like you said Atlantis' gate is far more superior than both Destiny's and Earth's gate.

mirdin1992
October 18th, 2009, 04:10 AM
Right... :o ...my bad. Hmm....now I'm not sure about which one is oldest. Now I'm thinking probably the Destiny because as I said in the other post technology moves forward not back. So if thats the case then it makes sense that Destiny is older because it has that crappy gate. Whereas like you said Atlantis' gate is far more superior than both Destiny's and Earth's gate.

Two words: Periodical upgrades.

_Famrir_
October 19th, 2009, 12:34 PM
I agree with the bolded part. On Earth there was no need for the ATA gene but in Pegasus there was the wraith, a threat to Atlantis and the ancients. So by updating Atlantis with the ATA gene, if the wraith ever got onto Atlantis or tried to use anything ancient, the wraith wouldn't be able to operate it. Whereas on Destiny it was never updated with the ATA gene because there was no need for it. Having the ATA gene doesn't prove anything.

--------

In my opinion, I think Atlantis is older because the hyperdrive in the Destiny is much more hightech than Atlantis. Plus Destiny's power source is better. I mean Atlantis' ZPM was pratically drained by the time the expedition got there whereas the Destiny still had power when Rush and his team got there. Why would the ancients build a ship with a powerful hyperdrive and power source and then build Atlantis with lesser tech? That doesn't really make sense.

And what about the Stargate differences? The Earth gate is obviously the first gate because that's where the ancients originated. The Atlantis gate is similar to the Earth gate besides the fact that it's blue and has star consellations on it. Then the Destiny gate completely spins while dialing, and uses a handheld device to dial.

So, if Destiny was built before Atlantis than why isn't the Atlantis gate like the Destiny gate? Technology goes forward not backwards. Why would the ancients build a gate like the Destiny gate and then go backwards in technology and build the Atlantis gate similar to the Earth gate. A gate that needs a DHD to dial (without it they can't dial), whereas the Destiny gate uses a handheld device to dial.

Now to me that makes no sense, so right there that must mean that Atlantis came first then they built the Destiny.

Rush said hte destiny PREDATES ata gene technology which means even if it did need it the technology wasnt available thus the destiny is older than Atlantis because atlantis uses the ATA gene

mirdin1992
October 19th, 2009, 12:43 PM
Rush said hte destiny PREDATES ata gene technology which means even if it did need it the technology wasnt available thus the destiny is older than Atlantis because atlantis uses the ATA gene

that makes no sense comparing the Destiny to Atlantis on the bases one is ATA encoded and the other not is a baseless fact when one was abandoned morre than a million years ago and the other 10.000 years ago and had people adding and changing thing. Do you really think a city would stay the same for that long even if there were no technological progress(which clearly existed) the style and architecture and some other stuff change a lot, just look at us and what we make now and compare to a 100, 50, even 10 years ago and point the differences.

Exiled Master
October 19th, 2009, 10:50 PM
The Destiny. Which hasn't been in Hyperspace, it's been in FTL. Which was stated in the first episode.

And, Rush said at least hundreds of thousands. But we know that they sent off the Destiny before they went to Atlantis, as it was the prime of their civilisation. Before they fled the Plague.

Therefor, we know the Destiny is older.

In a fight, Altantis would win though. Just to throw that randomly in there :P

Heck, I'm pretty sure you could just throw atlantis at the destiny and the city would still be able to fly.

corey2002
December 6th, 2009, 06:12 PM
destiny is older
you need the ATA gene for atlantis, which is a security upgrade
and there is the "1.0" version of the ancient head sucker thing/ tao of rodney ascension device
also the gate on destiny is steampunk

TrueLordOfNetu
December 7th, 2009, 03:04 AM
The Destiny is clearly older. On the original point of time spent in FTL, the Destiny has outdone Atlantis simply as it's FTL drive is different from a Hyperdrive and presumably designed for the purpose of near constant use. Although it hasn't been stated in the show, it makes sense that it travels slower than most hyperdrive driven ships and uses less power as there is no need for the large initial burst used to rip open a window into subspace. Also when the Destiny's power reserves run low it simply drops out and flies through a star to recharge.

Dragon_Heart
December 7th, 2009, 01:15 PM
Arguably the Destiny's weapons, in my opinion, are much less efficient and powerful than drones.
Thousands/millions of years makes sense (to the clinically sane) that the weapons and shields would be more advanced and efficient.

Destiny though, in my opinion, is much better equipped to be in a prolonged battle.

Destiny's amount of weapons would provide suffice fire to eventually take down atlantis's shield, but then again the drones could pass straight through the destiny's shielding and kill it.

We cant now for sure.

Alan Wake
December 7th, 2009, 01:21 PM
Arguably the Destiny's weapons, in my opinion, are much less efficient and powerful than drones.
Thousands/millions of years makes sense (to the clinically sane) that the weapons and shields would be more advanced and efficient.

Destiny though, in my opinion, is much better equipped to be in a prolonged battle.

Destiny's amount of weapons would provide suffice fire to eventually take down atlantis's shield, but then again the drones could pass straight through the destiny's shielding and kill it.

We cant now for sure.

That my friend, is up for a debate.

Discounting the last episode of Atlantis, the Shields on the city do not drain/weaken because of fire. The shields stay up relative to the power the city has.

The Swarm
December 7th, 2009, 10:21 PM
But Destiny has great shields to...not to mention that the constant barrage of fire from Destiny's numerous guns will eventualy deplete Atlantis shields.

kirmit
December 8th, 2009, 07:42 AM
That my friend, is up for a debate.

Discounting the last episode of Atlantis, the Shields on the city do not drain/weaken because of fire. The shields stay up relative to the power the city has.

If it's in the show is has to be counted, does it not? So Atlantis' shields do drain through fire.

Control_Chair
December 8th, 2009, 07:53 AM
That my friend, is up for a debate.

Discounting the last episode of Atlantis, the Shields on the city do not drain/weaken because of fire. The shields stay up relative to the power the city has.

Exactly, the whole Wraith bombardment in the Siege was too deplete the ZPM and allow the shields to fail


But Destiny has great shields to...not to mention that the constant barrage of fire from Destiny's numerous guns will eventually deplete Atlantis shields.

I think the barrage from Destiny’s guns will deplete its own power reserves before it depletes the ZPM powering Atlantis shields, however all the ship has to do is fly through a sun to recharge then come back for more.


If it's in the show is has to be counted, does it not? So Atlantis' shields do drain through fire.

But it is not clear how much power was in the ZPM’s during the battle.

sunrek
December 8th, 2009, 11:18 AM
To clarify, the issue I think is that in Atlantis' final episode, the shield is said to be "At 70 percent" or something. The shield itself, not the ZPM. However, throughout the whole run of the series, it was canon that the shield was an all-or-nothing sort of thing (in terms of power, obviously not coverage i.e. "Adrift"). The shield was never said to be at a percent of its output, the way shields in Star Trek or even Daedalus work. Enemy fire does not weaken the shield, but instead drains the power source (usually the ZPMs). I'm sure that given enough time and enough rocks, the shield can be brought down by throwing rocks at it. Weapon strength against the city shield is not about how well it can get through (because nothing can), but how quickly they can drain the ZPM.

But saying the Destiny has weapons that would eventually win against Atlantis can only be met with "Well Duh." Because each shot drains a minuscule amount of power from the ZPM, if the city were to never fight back and never replace or augment its ZPMs, given enough time even someone tossing rocks at it could eventually bring it down.


If it's in the show is has to be counted, does it not? So Atlantis' shields do drain through fire.

So basically, yes, but it's the power source that drains not the shield itself. This is the case in every single episode except the final one, and taking that whole episode into account, I think it's safe to ignore the "Shield at 70%" line

Cmdr. Setsuna F. Seyei
December 10th, 2009, 09:59 AM
Actually both views are correct. in that the shields do drain from weapons fire as well as the ZPM output. if you remember the episode with the Aterro device Zelenka stated that the SHIELD EMITTERS were being overloaded. (and before anyone says anything it was not the normal gate shield either. it was the city shield shrunk around the gate like Sheppard asked Zelenka to do.) so in the episode EATG the whole 70% thing was that the shield emitters were bieng overloaded and at the time were only able to put out 70% of the power that the ZPM was feeding them.

The Swarm
December 10th, 2009, 10:59 AM
The fight aint realy fair since both the Destiny and Atlantis are pretty old... neither works at 100% efficency.

s09119
December 10th, 2009, 11:23 AM
Actually both views are correct. in that the shields do drain from weapons fire as well as the ZPM output. if you remember the episode with the Aterro device Zelenka stated that the SHIELD EMITTERS were being overloaded. (and before anyone says anything it was not the normal gate shield either. it was the city shield shrunk around the gate like Sheppard asked Zelenka to do.) so in the episode EATG the whole 70% thing was that the shield emitters were bieng overloaded and at the time were only able to put out 70% of the power that the ZPM was feeding them.

That was different; the modified cityshield was never meant to be used that way, so the emitters couldn't handle it. Had the overloaded stargates been placed on top of the cityshield and detonated, the shield would have held until it ran out of power.

The Swarm
December 10th, 2009, 11:15 PM
Indeed, thge shield contained the blast instead of of pressureing on it.

Character
December 11th, 2009, 08:51 AM
That was different; the modified cityshield was never meant to be used that way, so the emitters couldn't handle it. Had the overloaded stargates been placed on top of the cityshield and detonated, the shield would have held until it ran out of power.

How was it different? It still basically absorbs the energy, just like it would normally just in this case it absorbs 100% instead of 30-50 if it was above the shield. Also, the fact hat they could change the shield for such a function in seconds (unlike, say, the cloak) suggests it is meant to work that way too.

sunrek
December 11th, 2009, 09:26 AM
I think it might be a little different, since the shield is containing a multi-megaton explosion instead of deflecting it. This is especially hard since it's in such a compressed space. But we do know the shield is naturally capable of shrinking the way it did, we saw that in the pilot and "Adrift." The difference here is, instead of keeping water out and air in, it's containing a massive explosion. So I think it's fair to say that it was a unique event

Cmdr. Setsuna F. Seyei
December 11th, 2009, 04:56 PM
That was different; the modified cityshield was never meant to be used that way, so the emitters couldn't handle it. Had the overloaded stargates been placed on top of the cityshield and detonated, the shield would have held until it ran out of power.


actually its the same because the city's sheilds were never meant to stand upto a barage from a superhiveship powered by one of the ancients own ZPM'S.

but then again maybe your right what if the sheild emitters are charged to a certain point (The Storm) and when put under strain lose that power. or what if due to Zelenka saying that the whormhole drive that they used to get to Earth used and insane amount of power they were refering to the remaining amount of power the 3 zpm's could supply to the sheilds before they failed. remember after the battle Woolsey told Sam that they dindt know ifthey were going to make it through RE-entry due to the fact of how much power was drained getting to Earth and then the subsequent battle.

Dragon_Heart
December 11th, 2009, 05:10 PM
That was different; the modified cityshield was never meant to be used that way, so the emitters couldn't handle it. Had the overloaded stargates been placed on top of the cityshield and detonated, the shield would have held until it ran out of power.

Incorrect. The shield does actually seem to be able to be used that way, it makes sense.

Shep asked for it to be done and Zalenka(?) made it happen within seconds, so that suggests easy manipulation of the shield execept it's pre-programmed state.

Also, when the city shield shrunk itself to protect different parts of the city, it provides further proof that shrinking the shield to a certain place is more than possible but has infact happened.

Basically the emmiters were specifically designed for that use. And if you detonated a gate ontop of the cityshield, the shield would only take on about 60-70% of the damage IF that, considering the way the gate explodes.

Dragon_Heart
December 11th, 2009, 05:12 PM
actually its the same because the city's sheilds were never meant to stand upto a barage from a superhiveship powered by one of the ancients own ZPM'S.

but then again maybe your right what if the sheild emitters are charged to a certain point (The Storm) and when put under strain lose that power. or what if due to Zelenka saying that the whormhole drive that they used to get to Earth used and insane amount of power they were refering to the remaining amount of power the 3 zpm's could supply to the sheilds before they failed. remember after the battle Woolsey told Sam that they dindt know ifthey were going to make it through RE-entry due to the fact of how much power was drained getting to Earth and then the subsequent battle.

Yeah not much juice was left in the ZPM's, and that hive spat out some serious fire power knocking Atlantis back into the atmosphere, which also drained the shield.

Its no suprise the power was so low.

sunrek
December 12th, 2009, 08:34 AM
Incorrect. The shield does actually seem to be able to be used that way, it makes sense.

Shep asked for it to be done and Zalenka(?) made it happen within seconds, so that suggests easy manipulation of the shield execept it's pre-programmed state.

Also, when the city shield shrunk itself to protect different parts of the city, it provides further proof that shrinking the shield to a certain place is more than possible but has infact happened.

Basically the emmiters were specifically designed for that use. And if you detonated a gate ontop of the cityshield, the shield would only take on about 60-70% of the damage IF that, considering the way the gate explodes.

Well obviously the shield shrinks natively. Like we both said, we've seen that. The difference it that it's not "protecting" the gate from the rest of the city, it's protecting the city from the gate. The "bad" thing is inside the shield bubble instead of outside of it, which I would think is exactly the opposite of what the shield was designed to work with. So the emitters were designed to shrink the shield, but not to contain things other than atmosphere, and certainly not an exploding Stargate. From what we hear in "Redemption," a similar event would have wiped out all life on Earth.

s09119
December 14th, 2009, 05:20 AM
Incorrect. The shield does actually seem to be able to be used that way, it makes sense.

Shep asked for it to be done and Zalenka(?) made it happen within seconds, so that suggests easy manipulation of the shield execept it's pre-programmed state.

Also, when the city shield shrunk itself to protect different parts of the city, it provides further proof that shrinking the shield to a certain place is more than possible but has infact happened.

Basically the emmiters were specifically designed for that use. And if you detonated a gate ontop of the cityshield, the shield would only take on about 60-70% of the damage IF that, considering the way the gate explodes.

Incorrect. The gate can shrink just fine, but it's not meant to contain a blast; its purpose is to deflect a blast.

Dragon_Heart
April 3rd, 2010, 05:31 PM
Incorrect. The gate can shrink just fine, but it's not meant to contain a blast; its purpose is to deflect a blast.

Yes but surely the shield efficiency would have to be equally strong at containing aswell as deflecting. Beside sit does not actually deflect, it dissipates the energy and absorbs it. Containment of a weapon would cause the same effect, but it would be constant, just as the asuran beam was on the city.

The Destiny
April 4th, 2010, 03:39 PM
* ahem *

back to the 'which one is older' debate.

There are two main reasons I'd say that destiny is older.

The gate system. These gates are an older model with more limited range, and without DHD's.
The lack of DHD's: Good to have remotes, but it defeats the idea of the gate system to travel freely among worlds, apparently the concept hasn't been worked out fully. The lack of DHD's can be explained however by saying the ancients didn't suply the planets with DHD's so the gate system couldn't be used by other races in those galaxies. Kinda mean don't ya think?
The range: main issue is that these gates apparently have a shorter range, otherwise why would there only be a few adresses available ( in Air II & III ) , or why would the destiny constantly have to be moving. If the gates had more range then it could drop out of FTL at the edge of a galaxy and start dailing with abandon untill it needed to get some power.
This shorter range indicates that the gates are less advanced, and don't have the range of milky way and pegasus gates. These appear to be an older model, older than the milky way and pegasus.


The chair.

also a few reasons why the chair indicates destiny is older. Rush has mentioned ( consistently ) that the chair was built early in the ancient's evolution and the effects would be less severe, the ancient's physiology wasn't as evolutionarily advanced as it was during the pegasus/atlantis - era. This indicates that this chair was built far before they left for pegasus, because why would they build a chair for someone with less advanced physiology?
The milkyway has these brain-uploader repositories, meant to be used by a race evolutionarily highly advanced. It appears that destiny was sent out with the less advanced chair ( with bolts ) while the ancients were still setting up their civilisation in the milky way. Long after the destiny took off the ancients had evolved so far they could create those repositories ( and use them ). And Atlantis appears to be more modern than those repositories.


But some reasons why it doesn't really make sense to me: Why did the ancients send out this ship on intergalactic quest while they were still building their civilisation in the milkyway? Were they that adventurous they were willing to build a dozen huge ships and send them away?
And the antartica gate was dated 50 million years I believe? I can not imagine destiny being over 50 million years old. So how come the milkyway system ( that is more advanced than the destiny's gates, as established above ) is older than the destiny gates. Or could it be possible the ancients embarked on a gigantic "updating the gates"- project, improving the range and adding DHD's?



If some details were different ( milky way system equally as advanced as destiny gate system, and personally I imagine FTL being older than hyperdrive, as it appears to be a lot slower ( with hyperdrive you cross a galaxy in 1 day ) ) than it would make perfect sense and I imagine it would be like this:
- Ancients leave the Ori behind and "find a great belt of stars"
- They start building their civilisation in the milky way and spread out across millions of worlds. The ancients flourish. Ships are using FTL, either invented in the milky way, or already when they lived with the Ori.
- The industrious fellows embark on a big project and build a number of huge ships to send out into the universe. Most are built to seed stargates, and years later the 'destiny' follows them to explore the galaxies they've been to.
- Hyperdrive is invented somewhere around this time.
- Destiny has been away for quite some time, the plague strikes the ancients in the milky way and millions die, the civilisation is on the brink of destruction.
- Atlantis, either made earlier ( as a new generation of ship/city ) or around this time specifically to escape the plague and start anew, leaves earth and the milkyway, they go to pegasus.

- Pegasus is seeded with life, ancient flourish, wraith encountered, war, ancients flee back to earth and ascend or die out.
- The Tau'ri make it onto destiny
- We start having debates about the timeline.

My two cents, I'm proud of it. :)

Dragon_Heart
April 8th, 2010, 01:12 PM
* ahem *

back to the 'which one is older' debate.

There are two main reasons I'd say that destiny is older.

The gate system. These gates are an older model with more limited range, and without DHD's.
The lack of DHD's: Good to have remotes, but it defeats the idea of the gate system to travel freely among worlds, apparently the concept hasn't been worked out fully. The lack of DHD's can be explained however by saying the ancients didn't suply the planets with DHD's so the gate system couldn't be used by other races in those galaxies. Kinda mean don't ya think?
The range: main issue is that these gates apparently have a shorter range, otherwise why would there only be a few adresses available ( in Air II & III ) , or why would the destiny constantly have to be moving. If the gates had more range then it could drop out of FTL at the edge of a galaxy and start dailing with abandon untill it needed to get some power.
This shorter range indicates that the gates are less advanced, and don't have the range of milky way and pegasus gates. These appear to be an older model, older than the milky way and pegasus.


The chair.

also a few reasons why the chair indicates destiny is older. Rush has mentioned ( consistently ) that the chair was built early in the ancient's evolution and the effects would be less severe, the ancient's physiology wasn't as evolutionarily advanced as it was during the pegasus/atlantis - era. This indicates that this chair was built far before they left for pegasus, because why would they build a chair for someone with less advanced physiology?
The milkyway has these brain-uploader repositories, meant to be used by a race evolutionarily highly advanced. It appears that destiny was sent out with the less advanced chair ( with bolts ) while the ancients were still setting up their civilisation in the milky way. Long after the destiny took off the ancients had evolved so far they could create those repositories ( and use them ). And Atlantis appears to be more modern than those repositories.


But some reasons why it doesn't really make sense to me: Why did the ancients send out this ship on intergalactic quest while they were still building their civilisation in the milkyway? Were they that adventurous they were willing to build a dozen huge ships and send them away?
And the antartica gate was dated 50 million years I believe? I can not imagine destiny being over 50 million years old. So how come the milkyway system ( that is more advanced than the destiny's gates, as established above ) is older than the destiny gates. Or could it be possible the ancients embarked on a gigantic "updating the gates"- project, improving the range and adding DHD's?



If some details were different ( milky way system equally as advanced as destiny gate system, and personally I imagine FTL being older than hyperdrive, as it appears to be a lot slower ( with hyperdrive you cross a galaxy in 1 day ) ) than it would make perfect sense and I imagine it would be like this:
- Ancients leave the Ori behind and "find a great belt of stars"
- They start building their civilisation in the milky way and spread out across millions of worlds. The ancients flourish. Ships are using FTL, either invented in the milky way, or already when they lived with the Ori.
- The industrious fellows embark on a big project and build a number of huge ships to send out into the universe. Most are built to seed stargates, and years later the 'destiny' follows them to explore the galaxies they've been to.
- Hyperdrive is invented somewhere around this time.
- Destiny has been away for quite some time, the plague strikes the ancients in the milky way and millions die, the civilisation is on the brink of destruction.
- Atlantis, either made earlier ( as a new generation of ship/city ) or around this time specifically to escape the plague and start anew, leaves earth and the milkyway, they go to pegasus.

- Pegasus is seeded with life, ancient flourish, wraith encountered, war, ancients flee back to earth and ascend or die out.
- The Tau'ri make it onto destiny
- We start having debates about the timeline.

My two cents, I'm proud of it. :)


There are many more factors to consider, but i think everyone can agree the destiny is much older than Atlantis, which can even be told from it's looks.
What is Destiny's job exactly anyway? Catalogue planets? Survey if they are habitable? I'm sure the seeder ships would not have just planted a gate that was not habitable to the ancients themselves.

Moving on anyway.

Weaponry: Destiny's weaponry seems pretty poor. That main cannon seems in all honesty terrible. It could be strong, but if you are not pointed directly at the ship, your not going to hit it, and it looked like it took up a large section of the ship anway. Very inneficient.

compare this to atlantis weaponry, Drones. Quick, very high explosive impact damage, manouverable, and can obviously be fired more frequently as they could be in swarms. Not only this, you can guide them with your mind.

there is though the point that destiny is low on power, and seeing as it can only hold a fraction of what it used to be able to, well we cannot really know it's full potential.

One on one with both of them in pristene condition? who knows, could go either way.

Colonel Chris
April 13th, 2010, 03:33 AM
well there is only one thing you need to look out for and that is the weapons systems and the chair, they are less advanced than the ones used in atlantis

Phenom
April 14th, 2010, 11:44 PM
I certainly doubt the Ancients went from Atlantis, with its modern look and pretty windows, to Destiny's steam engine pipe work and lack of suitable lighting. Its fairly obvious that it was designed to look substantially older than Atlantis.

escyos
April 16th, 2010, 01:08 AM
Coming this millenium, Ancient technology in conjunction with stargate command bring you:

ATLANTIS VS DESTINY!

A show-down not to be missed.

AdmlDj
April 24th, 2010, 09:05 AM
There are many more factors to consider, but i think everyone can agree the destiny is much older than Atlantis, which can even be told from it's looks.
What is Destiny's job exactly anyway? Catalogue planets? Survey if they are habitable? I'm sure the seeder ships would not have just planted a gate that was not habitable to the ancients themselves.

Moving on anyway.

Weaponry: Destiny's weaponry seems pretty poor. That main cannon seems in all honesty terrible. It could be strong, but if you are not pointed directly at the ship, your not going to hit it, and it looked like it took up a large section of the ship anway. Very inneficient.

compare this to atlantis weaponry, Drones. Quick, very high explosive impact damage, manouverable, and can obviously be fired more frequently as they could be in swarms. Not only this, you can guide them with your mind.

there is though the point that destiny is low on power, and seeing as it can only hold a fraction of what it used to be able to, well we cannot really know it's full potential.

One on one with both of them in pristene condition? who knows, could go either way.

you cant say that desiny is older than atlantis by its looks nobody has been on destiny since it was launched so it is unchanged we have no idea how atlantis looked when it left earth all you see is it taking off who knows what kind of upgrades the ancients made over millions of years in pegasus in fact if they didnt make significant changes in that time then they weren't that smart were they?

Dragon_Heart
April 24th, 2010, 10:47 AM
you cant say that desiny is older than atlantis by its looks nobody has been on destiny since it was launched so it is unchanged we have no idea how atlantis looked when it left earth all you see is it taking off who knows what kind of upgrades the ancients made over millions of years in pegasus in fact if they didnt make significant changes in that time then they weren't that smart were they?


Thanks for the completely irrelevant point there junior. We all know you cannot judge a book by it's cover, i just stated Atlantis's obvious more advanced look and feel, i never said that is what i went by in judging which ship is older.

Anyway, back to the thread, Atlantis would kill destiny with ease with a single ZPM. If Atlantis mover out of the wya of the destiny's main weapon, which is easy enough, is just has to deal with the turrets, and the drones will most likely rip destiny's shield apart after a few hundred.

AdmlDj
April 29th, 2010, 12:57 PM
Thanks for the completely irrelevant point there junior. We all know you cannot judge a book by it's cover, i just stated Atlantis's obvious more advanced look and feel, i never said that is what i went by in judging which ship is older.

Anyway, back to the thread, Atlantis would kill destiny with ease with a single ZPM. If Atlantis mover out of the wya of the destiny's main weapon, which is easy enough, is just has to deal with the turrets, and the drones will most likely rip destiny's shield apart after a few hundred.

thanks for the completely irrelevant point that i haven't made as many posts as you i dont believe this in anyway shows i know less than you or anyone else on here i only post when i think i have something to contribute i notice however that you conveniently skipped past the possibility of atlantis as we know it being the product of millions of years of upgrades i mean do you honestly believe the ancients went to pegasus and never bothered to invent any thing or upgrade anything not even a lick of paint us lowly humans cant live in the same house for more than a few years without upgrading our technology changing the look of rooms and generally keeping up with the times however your argument seems to be that atlantis is unchanged from the day of construction just like the destiny

Michael Jansky
April 29th, 2010, 03:18 PM
Just how much thread space has to be spent trying to mend the shows' constant inconsistencies, I wonder?

Yeah, I try too, but the sad fact is, the creators don't give much thought to how dedicated fans would see it, rather going with whatever they feel like going with at the moment.

Michael Jansky
April 29th, 2010, 03:21 PM
Atlantis hands down and I think TPTB should make a Sg timeline chart and post it so we can have a better understanding of whats going on, the way that it is doesn't make sense with Atlantis going to Pegasus millions of years ago and destiny being hundreds of thousands of years old.

Or maybe Atlantis bugded out before the plague hit, I don't know.

I think TPTB would rather work a month without pay than do that chart, because then they'd have to put up with all the non-matching "creative liberties" they took with the shows over the years. :-)

Vitharr
April 30th, 2010, 04:27 AM
i think that destiny is older just because of the fact that there is less advanced tech the neural interface is way less advanced they didnt even have the control chair devices drones werent around theres alot of things that the ancients have improved on so i think its destiny thats the older of the two espically the seeder ships i think they definatly would be older if destiny wasnt. also it might be advantageous to view atlantis as the ancients last great invention in a sense their 9th symphony i spose where they put all theyre great technology at the time into not only a place to live but theyre best technological advancement and im just guessing here but i think the whole way stargate program probably found out about destiny was from atlantis' database itd make sense why the ancients went to pegasus atlantis probably recieves some data every now and then or did at some point and when they left they may have used this data. in my opinion it just seems more logical that destiny would be older but then again its my opinion and everyone is entitled to there own opinion

randomperson
July 2nd, 2015, 08:10 AM
Destiny is constantly recharging from star

Captain Galaxy
July 2nd, 2015, 11:20 AM
Destiny is older, thou for when it was built it was the most advanced ship built by the ancients but still and if repaired/restored would still be a deadly ship to face in combat, also Destiny is kinda like a precursor to the later more comfortable City Ships that would be built.

garhkal
July 3rd, 2015, 12:07 AM
For me its the Destiny. From the first gen gates, to the chair, to the way they did power..

DigiFluid
July 27th, 2015, 12:45 PM
This is kind of a laughable 'fight'.... Atlantis is vastly (possibly millions of years) newer and more advanced than Destiny.

The fight would be like sending the starship Enterprise out to sink a prehistoric canoe.

Captain Galaxy
July 27th, 2015, 01:23 PM
Atlantis is equipped with Drones which go through shields anyway so it would rip the Destiny to shreds, but having said that Destiny is a big ship still and the Drones would probably cause an overload long before the Drones carved her up.

Jack_O'Neill
August 5th, 2015, 05:22 AM
If Destiny will attack Atlantis-Destiny will not have chances because Atlantis it is a big city which has drones,cannons and other weapons,also this city has very powerful shield.

Destiny can't resist vs fire which will go from the Atlantis. Battle will be impossible.

Todd the Wraith Worshipper
February 24th, 2016, 05:05 PM
You know, this may have been mentioned before, but one thing that's always bothered me is how old they chose Destiny to be...even Atlantis is too old. I mean Destiny being created 50 Ma puts it almost at the back end of the Paleogene period...so, given the fact that the Ancients look like modern homo sapiens, it kind of throws evolution out the window. I mean ok, Atlantis is maybe believable, as homo ergaster achieved the use of fire about 1.5 Ma, but homo sapiens as we understand wouldn't evolve for another 1.3 Ma. I know that all fiction requires a suspension of disbelief, so I shouldn't split hairs over the back-story of Atlantis; however it's sci-fi after all (yeah, not hard sci-fi, where you'd expect explanations for every last detail) where you expect some of this to be taken into account, so the age of the Destiny period being 50 Ma is still an enormous plot-hole. They could have at least made the Ancients look slightly different, simply to justify a notion that if homo sapiens looked 1 Ma like we do now, then they'd've evolved a little bit. Sorry if I'm being too nit-picky; those are just my thoughts...

LJGrindelwald
July 20th, 2016, 05:24 PM
Destiny had to be in range of selective gates. When out of range it couldn't dial the planets and vice verser, probably cos they're prototypes of the original stargate before MW/Pegasus gates superseded them. If the galaxies and destiny were updated with MW/Pegasus gates they'd probablg be able to dial gates from anywhere in the galaxy and further out. Theres a possibility of upgrading destiny to dial more if more programming was added to the gates and delisting.

LJGrindelwald
July 20th, 2016, 05:35 PM
I believe the destiny gates are the prototypes launched in the seedships ahead of destiny and dropped on planets from galaxy to galaxy. I believe earth had a destiny gate once but then the ancients had an upgrade and build the mark II gates for the milky way galaxy and earth, possibly other galaxies too. Then they left for pegasus cod of the plague and there, they built thr Mark III pegasus gates and seeding them on planets there. They never made more after that but its possible other technological advanced societies got the same idea and built gates in their galaxies destiny hasn't visited? The Tolan with help from the knox built their own style of stargate.