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View Full Version : Who rescued the rescuers?



Aerilon
October 11th, 2009, 07:01 AM
After Lucifer was released, Sam and Dean tried to escape the chamber, the doors were locked shut, and then they suddenly found themselves on a plane. In addition, Raphael killed Castiel, yet he was returned.

Raphael seemed to suggest (to Cas and Dean) that it may have been Lucifer that 'saved' them, even though we know that Cas believes it to be the work of God (even though Raph says he is dead).

I don't see this all adding up to be honest. Firstly, Lucifer would have known that Sam was his true vessel, thus why would he trap him, only to send him up to a plane? He'd not have any reason to bring back Castiel either (if he ever had the power too).

I believe that God is alive, just the Archangels (for whatever reason) believe him to be dead. We know that Angel's cannot lie, so when Raph said God was dead, it can only mean that is what Raph truly believes. Maybe Michael is behind it all? I don't know, but one thing is for sure, I truly believe that it was God (and not Lucifer) that saved the brothers, and ressurected Castiel.

Why he is MIA is unknown, though thats bound to be explained at some point.

LoneStar1836
October 11th, 2009, 10:24 AM
For whatever reason the archangels have lost their faith in God. I'm assuming they are the four angels that have actually seen God...as Anna noted only 4 angels had ever seen Him. I guess they haven't seen God in quite some time and for whatever bizarre reason think he is dead. :S

Imo, it was without a doubt God that saved the brothers in the first ep this season...since Lucifer later noted that Sam is his vessel. As to resurrecting Cas, I think it was God as well as I'm not exactly sure why the other side would. I know Raphael raised some doubt about Cas, but I don't believe his as Raphael doesn't really seem to know what's going on anyway.

It does make you wonder where Michael is, but I think he is just yet to show. I think he is down with Zach and the other angels' plan to start the Apocalypse. You'd think that since Michael is the key to defeating Lucifer, Zach and the others would make sure he was on board unless maybe they did all this anyway to force his hand.

P-90_177
October 18th, 2009, 04:10 AM
if it was lucifer then the reason is quite simple. If Sam saw Lucifer in his true form then he would have been killed.....easier just to send him up into the plane.

LizzieAnne
October 18th, 2009, 04:59 AM
I also thought that it was God doing the whisking Dean and Sam off to the plane out of harms way, mainly because of the door slamming shut and trapping them inside. And then when Cas turned up to save Dean and Sam from Zach, Zach looked really scared at the thought of who resurrected Cas.

There is someone else who could have done it though. There's one more Archangel not yet accounted for, this is assuming that Uriel was one, and that is Gabriel... who is apparently also considered the holy spirit and God's messenger. He would be pretty powerful.


if it was lucifer then the reason is quite simple. If Sam saw Lucifer in his true form then he would have been killed.....easier just to send him up into the plane.

That's a very good point and also Lucifer has to have time to ask permission to enter his vessel. We already know that when angels come to earth their power is chaotic and dangerous to humans. We're already seen that with Cas.

reddevil18
October 19th, 2009, 10:39 AM
I think it was the Son of God...

Epideme
October 24th, 2009, 03:35 AM
I have to wonder who the fourth Angel (other than Raphael and co)to see God would be? Gabriel would be my guess but has there been any mention of him yet? (I'm in the UK so I'm behind you atm). Imo, Dean and Sam were saved by both Angels/God and Lucifer as he would need Sam alive but what about Dean? The Angels/God would have to save him for all intents and purposes. *Maybe* (Imho) the two sides saved their own. The Angels/God save Dean for their reasons and Lucifer saves Sam for his reasons. That is the only whay I could see it working without too many problems. If this is right (roflmao) I deserve a new pair of shoes....!

Epideme

LizzieAnne
October 24th, 2009, 05:06 AM
I think it was the Son of God...

You can never tell with Kripke but my guess is that he won't go down that route...a bit too controversial...but you never know.


I have to wonder who the fourth Angel (other than Raphael and co)to see God would be? Gabriel would be my guess but has there been any mention of him yet? (I'm in the UK so I'm behind you atm). Imo, Dean and Sam were saved by both Angels/God and Lucifer as he would need Sam alive but what about Dean? The Angels/God would have to save him for all intents and purposes. *Maybe* (Imho) the two sides saved their own. The Angels/God save Dean for their reasons and Lucifer saves Sam for his reasons. That is the only whay I could see it working without too many problems. If this is right (roflmao) I deserve a new pair of shoes....!

Epideme

I like that idea...angels and demons.... each looking out for their own.
If you're right you deserve a new pair of shoes.:P

I'm in the UK..I watch by alternative methods.. ;)

Epideme
October 24th, 2009, 07:38 AM
You can never tell with Kripke but my guess is that he won't go down that route...a bit too controversial...but you never know.

I like that idea...angels and demons.... each looking out for their own.
If you're right you deserve a new pair of shoes.:P

I'm in the UK..I watch by alternative methods.. ;)

As do I. It's a necessary evil, I'm afraid... ;)

Epideme
P.S: I have my eye on a very nice pair of red shoes in schuh....

Aerilon
November 3rd, 2009, 11:50 AM
For whatever reason the archangels have lost their faith in God. I'm assuming they are the four angels that have actually seen God...as Anna noted only 4 angels had ever seen Him.There may be four Archangels, but it wouldn't surprise me if Anna was including Lucifer in those four. He was an Archangel, was he not?

I think its pretty safe to say that Uriel wasn't / isn't an Archangel, thus Michael, Gabriel, Raphael and Lucifer would be the four.


It does make you wonder where Michael is, but I think he is just yet to show. I think he is down with Zach and the other angels' plan to start the Apocalypse. You'd think that since Michael is the key to defeating Lucifer, Zach and the others would make sure he was on board unless maybe they did all this anyway to force his hand.It could be either one of the two to be honest. I still wonder why Micheal first condemned Lucifer to Hell, and why he didn't just kill him instead?


if it was lucifer then the reason is quite simple. If Sam saw Lucifer in his true form then he would have been killed.....easier just to send him up into the plane.True.. However;

If Lucifer wanted Sam saved, why save Dean? In addition, if Lucifer wanted Sam to escape, why shut those doors on them? Why not just allow Sam and Dean to run out?


There is someone else who could have done it though. There's one more Archangel not yet accounted for, this is assuming that Uriel was one, and that is Gabriel... who is apparently also considered the holy spirit and God's messenger. He would be pretty powerful.Gabriel having the power to save Sam and Dean perhaps, but resurrecting Castiel after one of his Archangel brothers has destroyed him... That doesn't quite make sense.

It would be like Raph saying "die" and Gab saying "live".


I think it was the Son of God...Unlikely, but we can't really rule anything out...


I have to wonder who the fourth Angel (other than Raphael and co)to see God would be? Gabriel would be my guess but has there been any mention of him yet?As stated above, I believe the 4th was Lucifer. Uriel isn't an Archangel, I think if he was, that would have been established by now.