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    Where's the water?

    I'm trying to find in either the forum or episodes a discussion about water. Where did they get all that water for the co2 air scrubber?

    I mean they not only needed water to fill the container with limestone, but also needed water to clean the black residue. That container looked really clean.

    Also, one of the officers talked about Rush using up his day's ration. How much water do they have, and where did it come from.

    How long can the people on Destiny last without water?
    FAVORITE LINE: "I will not compromise the fundamental tenants of my devotion in order to preserve it." - STARGATE ARK OF TRUTH

    #2
    Originally posted by fireside View Post
    I'm trying to find in either the forum or episodes a discussion about water. Where did they get all that water for the co2 air scrubber?

    I mean they not only needed water to fill the container with limestone, but also needed water to clean the black residue. That container looked really clean.

    Also, one of the officers talked about Rush using up his day's ration. How much water do they have, and where did it come from.

    How long can the people on Destiny last without water?
    I'm guessing the SGU episode Water answers that question
    Originally posted by aretood2
    Jelgate is right

    Comment


      #3
      "Looks like we've entered the Hoth system."

      Comment


        #4
        the next title is water, so a lot of water was probably used for the scrubber. and it doesnt work without water.

        these CO2 scrubbers work via a base-acid reaction. this sounds pretty crazy.


        CO2(g) <-> CO2(Aq)
        CO2(Aq) + H2O <-> H2CO3
        H2CO3 <-> H(+) + HCO3(-)
        HCO3(-) <-> H(+) + CO3(2-)
        Lime(CaOH) -> Ca(2+) + OH(-)
        Ca(2+) + CO3(2-) -> CaCO3(s)
        OH(-) + H(+) -> H2O(l)

        <-> means, Forms and Forms back (the reaction is two ways)
        -> means, Forms

        due to the fact that CaOH removes H(+) and CO3(2-), the balance reactions "go to the right", meaning more H2CO3 splits, meaning more HCO3(-) spits, and in turn more CO2 dissolves.

        water is required yet also forms back. the water remains neutral. the CaCO3 is solid and does not dissolve. when all CaOH (the lime they gathered) is used up, what remains is water and solid Calcium Carbonate, which lies at the bottom.

        then, you merely add lime again and the process restarts


        the black goo that remains is an unknown material to me.

        Rush said it was alkaline.

        all alkalines are:

        lithium (Li), sodium (Na), potassium (K), rubidium (Rb), caesium (Cs), and francium (Fr). beryllium (Be), magnesium (Mg), calcium (Ca), strontium (Sr), barium (Ba) and radium (Ra).

        some will have a different reaction than calcium, where the dissolving forms hydroxide, the hydroxide reacts with the acidic Hydrogencarbonate, and what remains is the dissolved alkali metal + carbonate.

        Comment


          #5
          Errr...That almost put me in a coma, dude...
          I'll take your word for it...

          Comment


            #6
            The black goo was what remained from w/e the ancients used instead of lime & water

            Probably some specially made alkaline that did the same thing with a much greater efficiency

            Comment


              #7
              I really hope they revisit this, because that scrubber would be saturated pretty quick with the number of breathing bodies on-board.

              Comment


                #8
                I assume they will find whatever the ancients used eventually its probly in one of the pressurised sections

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                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                  the next title is water, so a lot of water was probably used for the scrubber. and it doesnt work without water.

                  these CO2 scrubbers work via a base-acid reaction. this sounds pretty crazy.


                  CO2(g) <-> CO2(Aq)
                  CO2(Aq) + H2O <-> H2CO3
                  H2CO3 <-> H(+) + HCO3(-)
                  HCO3(-) <-> H(+) + CO3(2-)
                  Lime(CaOH) -> Ca(2+) + OH(-)
                  Ca(2+) + CO3(2-) -> CaCO3(s)
                  OH(-) + H(+) -> H2O(l)

                  <-> means, Forms and Forms back (the reaction is two ways)
                  -> means, Forms

                  due to the fact that CaOH removes H(+) and CO3(2-), the balance reactions "go to the right", meaning more H2CO3 splits, meaning more HCO3(-) spits, and in turn more CO2 dissolves.

                  water is required yet also forms back. the water remains neutral. the CaCO3 is solid and does not dissolve. when all CaOH (the lime they gathered) is used up, what remains is water and solid Calcium Carbonate, which lies at the bottom.

                  then, you merely add lime again and the process restarts


                  the black goo that remains is an unknown material to me.

                  Rush said it was alkaline.

                  all alkalines are:

                  lithium (Li), sodium (Na), potassium (K), rubidium (Rb), caesium (Cs), and francium (Fr). beryllium (Be), magnesium (Mg), calcium (Ca), strontium (Sr), barium (Ba) and radium (Ra).

                  some will have a different reaction than calcium, where the dissolving forms hydroxide, the hydroxide reacts with the acidic Hydrogencarbonate, and what remains is the dissolved alkali metal + carbonate.
                  Ah, this brings back some interesting memories of my high school chemistry class. Being a trainee in the law enforcement field, I haven't put that knowledge to use in a while but it's still a cool subject.

                  Kudos for separating the two groups of elements by periodicity and then arranging them in proper ascending order of atomic mass.

                  Assuming that the planets the Destiny crew encounters will have gates, that means they'll almost all be Earth-like. They should be able to harvest alkaline earth metals on a regular basis. It's going to be a matter of locating them on whatever planets, which could be tough. Scott already had a tough time with that already.

                  Of course, there's the highly unlikely probability that someone from the Icarus base brought a whole lot of baking soda.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by fireside View Post
                    I'm trying to find in either the forum or episodes a discussion about water. Where did they get all that water for the co2 air scrubber?

                    I mean they not only needed water to fill the container with limestone, but also needed water to clean the black residue. That container looked really clean.

                    Also, one of the officers talked about Rush using up his day's ration. How much water do they have, and where did it come from.

                    How long can the people on Destiny last without water?
                    They brought water with them through the gate when the evacuated the Icarus base. Obviously, they have a limited supply, and an episode will deal with this issue.
                    I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by reddevil18 View Post
                      "Looks like we've entered the Hoth system."
                      Indeedy!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Replicator Todd View Post
                        Indeedy!
                        Ah, but is the sixth planet in the system?
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Kudos for separating the two groups of elements by periodicity and then arranging them in proper ascending order of atomic mass.
                          yea, wikipedia is usefull at that.

                          realistically, any base should do. even soap. the efficiency can vary.

                          i'm not uptodate on the density of lime and such, but i think that they can do for a while.

                          the best system is either a chemosynthetic or photosynthetic lifeform. then we can close the circle by eating it and adding either light, or electrolysing the chemical residue from the chemosynthetic lifeform, so the Carbon dioxide is indefinitely scrubbed.

                          i'm not sure of the black goo. if it's alkaline (and the reaction with Rush' pencil reveals that it's extremely basic or acidic) then it's most likely basic, so merely adding water should restart the scrubbing process.


                          and yes, acid-base equilibrium is the current page in my chemistry book.

                          as i said, the residue is merely a white powder and clean water. after which the power can be removed, new lime can be added and the process restarts.


                          this system is not perfect, yet it is immensely versatile and convenient

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                            these CO2 scrubbers work via a base-acid reaction.
                            Now how about the estimate of how long that bag of Lime (Looks to be about 50kg worth) is going to last ~80 people breathing at normal rate. Lets even assume that these 50kg are 100% Ca(OH)2.

                            I'm too lazy to do the actual math for it, but if it comes out to something over 24h, I'd be very surprised.
                            MWG Gate Network Simulation

                            Looks familiar?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              CO2 is a trace gas being only 0.0383% of the atmosphere.
                              CO2 is toxic in higher concentrations: 1% (10,000 ppm) will make some people feel drowsy. Concentrations of 7% to 10% cause dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour.
                              Typically the gas we exhale is about 4% to 5% carbon dioxide and 4% to 5% less oxygen than was inhaled.
                              Breathing produces approximately 2.3 pounds (1 kg) of carbon dioxide per day per person
                              80 people is 80 KG per day. they had about one day of air before it became toxic.

                              molar mass ; 44.010 g/mol
                              80/0.044010 =1817 moles of CO2

                              Lime: made of CaO and Ca(OH)2. in water the CaO becomes Ca(OH)2.

                              assuming complete conversion (so the 50KG=50KG of calcium hydroxide),

                              Molar mass: 74.093 g/mol
                              50/0.074093=674 moles.

                              Ca + CO3(-) -> CaCO3.
                              2OH(-) + 2H(+) -> 2H20

                              H2CO3 <-> H(+) + HCO3(-)

                              if the solution is saturated,

                              HCO3(-) + Ca(2+) -> Ca(HCO3)2
                              thus one Ca contains 2 H20 and 2 CO2.

                              assuming that it saturates, the maximum absorbed CO2 is

                              2x 674 mole = 1349 moles.

                              1817-1349= 467 moles of Co2 remaining.

                              467/1817=0.25. times hundred = 25%




                              what do all these numbers, formula and chemicals mean?

                              80 people at normal respiration will use up 50 kg of Ca(OH)2 (limestone) per day.

                              infact, they will have used it up after 75% of a day, thus after 24x0.75=18 hours.


                              the catch here: because it only takes the added CO2 away in my equations, after 18 hours they again are back to the start. thus in 18 hours, they again have one day of air left.

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