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Allanon 01
October 7th, 2009, 11:22 AM
Why couldn't the hammond defeat three alliance ships when it's capable of destroying an ori or hive ship with a couple of asgard beam weapon shots???

PacoJr67
October 7th, 2009, 11:52 AM
The Hammond was just being completed at the end of SGA
so it's possible that the APBWs may not have been installed yet
At any rate; if the Hammond had destroyed the ships, they may not have gotten to Destiny at all.

Captain Obvious
October 7th, 2009, 01:43 PM
The first episode of SGU took place about a week after the events of the finale of SGA. If you remember, the Hammond had no functional weapons or defensive systems online for the battle with the Superhive. This means they only had a week to get shields and some kind of weapons online. Obviously it would take longer than that to reverse engineer an Asgard beam weapon, but they could just rip railguns off of any of the other 4 crippled ships.

They needed something to transport people to a gate-less planet, and there was no reason they couldn't use the Hammond with salvaged railguns.

techwork
October 7th, 2009, 03:56 PM
These are special - the Communist Hat'ak. :)

SleepZone
October 7th, 2009, 04:06 PM
There is a chance that the APBW were not installed.

Maybe they were not online yet to save power as no one expected to get attacked 21 LY from earth.

Maybe they got knocked offline.

Heck maybe they started being used but there were too many gliders deployed by time they started killing part of the LA.

Cold Fuzz
October 7th, 2009, 05:27 PM
There is a chance that the APBW were not installed.

This is the most likely explanation, though I wish they could have inserted just a couple of lines to clarify this. It wouldn't take Sam very long to say something along the lines of, "The Hammond's a new ship. Its weapons array isn't fully online yet."

Rocky89
October 7th, 2009, 06:03 PM
I don't know much about the ship or what it does, but it has the right/best person in charge, and as far as I'm concerned, any ship to have Sam Carter as it's commander, is one lucky ship. http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp337/Rocky89_03/Sam_SGAsmile.gif

Encoder
October 7th, 2009, 06:04 PM
Well it's certainly not the first time we've ever seen one of our ships get hit off the bat and lose a subsystem or two.

Having been attacked unawares (now that's the point I have trouble with) does have the affect of getting hit with your pants down.

:sheppard:

UniverseSizePlotHole
October 8th, 2009, 04:09 AM
Well it's certainly not the first time we've ever seen one of our ships get hit off the bat and lose a subsystem or two.

Having been attacked unawares (now that's the point I have trouble with) does have the affect of getting hit with your pants down.

:sheppard:

Just before Sam says "They started shooting the minute they came out of hyperspace" it shows some of the turretted railgun positions were'nt firing (at least they were pointing at the right way) so take your pick.

Adeneth
October 8th, 2009, 03:51 PM
The ship might not be awesome, but I think that it was nice to have a ship named after General Hammond. He was a very influential character in the SG universe and since Don S. Davis has passed away we will not see him again. :hammond:

Encoder
October 8th, 2009, 07:33 PM
The ship might not be awesome, but I think that it was nice to have a ship named after General Hammond. He was a very influential character in the SG universe and since Don S. Davis has passed away we will not see him again. :hammond:

Don was an awesome man! RIP Don...

:sheppard:

mylestaylor
October 10th, 2009, 01:59 PM
I was wondering the same thing and I wish they had at least addressed it. There are several completely logical explanations but since it wasn't addressed it's anyone's guess.

It seems to me though that when constructing a new ship they should integrate those weapon systems in it from the start. I know they had to tack them on later to the earlier ships but they don't have to reverse engineer them every time. Asgard technology gives you the ability to create things using the Asgard core. It wouldn't be hard to put the weapons on there.

techwork
October 10th, 2009, 09:09 PM
The ship might not be awesome, but I think that it was nice to have a ship named after General Hammond. He was a very influential character in the SG universe and since Don S. Davis has passed away we will not see him again. :hammond:

You think that never die? ;)

Pharaoh Atem
October 10th, 2009, 09:10 PM
The Hammond was just being completed at the end of SGA
so it's possible that the APBWs may not have been installed yet
At any rate; if the Hammond had destroyed the ships, they may not have gotten to Destiny at all.

green

dahok
October 10th, 2009, 09:50 PM
It seems to me though that when constructing a new ship they should integrate those weapon systems in it from the start. I know they had to tack them on later to the earlier ships but they don't have to reverse engineer them every time. Asgard technology gives you the ability to create things using the Asgard core. It wouldn't be hard to put the weapons on there.

While the ship is new, the Asgard upgrades have been available for nearly two years. Given how fast the weapons were installed on the others, it seems unlikely that they weren't on the Hammond. It also doesn't explain why the shields were so weak and why the ship traveled so slow.

They should have thought of another way of jump starting the series, rather than gimping the USS Hammond.

YutheGreat
October 12th, 2009, 05:08 AM
The Hammond was up against 3 Hataks + Fighters + escorts. 2 Anubis Hataks took out an Asgard ship. The Odyssey fought against an Ori fleet due to the ZPM.

escyos
October 12th, 2009, 06:59 AM
there were donuts jammed in the asgard beams

dahok
October 12th, 2009, 08:01 AM
The Hammond was up against 3 Hataks + Fighters + escorts. 2 Anubis Hataks took out an Asgard ship. The Odyssey fought against an Ori fleet due to the ZPM.

We never saw an O'Neill class take on an upgraded Ha'tak. Odds are the Goa'uld would be murdered.

So what about all of those Lucian Alliance and FJN Ha'taks? It'd seem likely that any remaining ships would be of Anubis's origins, being he and Ba'al were the last of the System Lords. They did nothing against the Ori ships.

It was bad writing and a poor introduction to a ship that should have received a proper introduction. Nothing else.

YutheGreat
October 12th, 2009, 04:13 PM
We never saw an O'Neill class take on an upgraded Ha'tak. Odds are the Goa'uld would be murdered.

So what about all of those Lucian Alliance and FJN Ha'taks? It'd seem likely that any remaining ships would be of Anubis's origins, being he and Ba'al were the last of the System Lords. They did nothing against the Ori ships.

It was bad writing and a poor introduction to a ship that should have received a proper introduction. Nothing else.

Even the O'neill class was no match for the Ori. Ori tech is far superior to that of the Asgard. Yu and Amaterasu's fleets were still around fighting Baal so there are still their fleets

Mongoletsi
October 13th, 2009, 09:53 AM
Why the hell is it the GENERAL Hammond though? That goes against all previous naming conventions by the US military.

Lightning Ducj
October 13th, 2009, 10:12 AM
Why the hell is it the GENERAL Hammond though? That goes against all previous naming conventions by the US military.

Because they wanted the "US Don Davis" but that would've been pushing it...

dahok
October 13th, 2009, 12:35 PM
Even the O'neill class was no match for the Ori. Ori tech is far superior to that of the Asgard. Yu and Amaterasu's fleets were still around fighting Baal so there are still their fleets

Forgetting where the F-304 got their improved shields and weapons, the ones that made short work of Ori, Wraith, and even Ancient Auroras? Those Asgard upgrades would have been on the O'Neill class ships. If the Asgard stayed around a handful of O'Neill warships would have cleaned the remaining Ori ships out of our galaxy. They had to write out our ally, again, but still giving us something to defend ourselves with.

Edit: The ship was mistakenly called the "General Hammond" back in EATG. It is officially the George Hammond, the writers quietly corrected their mistake.

Mongoletsi
October 13th, 2009, 01:51 PM
Forgetting where the F-304 got their improved shields and weapons, the ones that made short work of Ori, Wraith, and even Ancient Auroras? Those Asgard upgrades would have been on the O'Neill class ships. If the Asgard stayed around a handful of O'Neill warships would have cleaned the remaining Ori ships out of our galaxy. They had to write out our ally, again, but still giving us something to defend ourselves with.

Yep I've pondered that; the Ori ships should theoretically be far superior to anything they encounter, as they use ascended knowledge in their design and operation. It's only really ZPM-powered 304s (e.g. The Odyssey) that can take on Ori ships tho, and even then it's heardly "short work". But I get your point.

[quoyte]Edit: The ship was mistakenly called the "General Hammond" back in EATG. It is officially the George Hammond, the writers quietly corrected their mistake.[/QUOTE]

Excellent news.

VSHARMA
October 15th, 2009, 08:17 AM
304 weapons were given to Earth by the Asgard to primary fight the Ori threat, thatís why they worked well on the Ori Mother Ships. Same with the Asuran Ships.... Asuran and Ancient are the same and the Ancients and Ori and the same race using similar Tech....Hive's don't have Shields. No one knows how Asgard beams will affect a Haítak or it's Shields

Ed
October 15th, 2009, 05:38 PM
joes blog had this question up his response was
"you are asuming the rest of the galaxy has remained stagnant"

only explination for that i can think of is the aliance got hold of an ori ship in the chaos after continum to be fair those ha'tak were firing faster

it would have been better for the alliance to spam alkesh and knock out the beams before the Hammond could respond then pumel it with ha'tak would have allowed the plot to stay the same and still make sense

Avenger
October 15th, 2009, 05:45 PM
Why the hell is it the GENERAL Hammond though? That goes against all previous naming conventions by the US military.

Don Davis, the actor who played Hammond died last year. In a late episode of SGA, they also mentioned that General Hammond had passed away. They named the ship in Hammond's honor. It also serves as a tribute to Don Davis.

Furthermore, the naming conventions you speak of are for the US Navy. We're talking about the USAF here. Plus, it's fiction.

kinseySG
October 15th, 2009, 05:53 PM
People need to think before they state things, The only ship that got the Asgard beam weapons was the odyssey and backwards engineering something that you know little about is next to impossible, i vaguely remember the Daedalus using the beam weapons aswell but aint sure about that one ill have to check that :P

Duke Flipside
October 15th, 2009, 06:15 PM
Named in honour of the legend that was Don S. Davis, and commanded by Sam, I think the Hammond is the closest thing the Tau'ri have to an indestructible ship ;)
As has been said, I think the most likely explanation is that the APBWs hadn't been installed yet, and it only had one of the slower interstellar hyperdrives (rather than the much faster intergalactic hyperdrives like the Daedalus/Apollo).

It's just after EatG; the Daedalus, Apollo and Sun Tzu are crippled and far from home. The Odyssey is off on its super-secret mission. The only other Tau'ri vessel is the partially-completed Hammond. Since all the ship needs to do is make a very short trip, to a location that's (supposed to be) secret and therefore perfectly safe, there's no reason to make weapons (or even very fast hyperdrive) a priority. So it makes perfect sense for them to have rushed the Hammond into service being just flight-worthy and nothing more, certainly not battle-ready (as there was no reason to assume it was necessary).

UniverseSizePlotHole
October 20th, 2009, 01:59 AM
To further that point Duke Flipside it is not capable of a rescue mission of any stranded ships because of it incomplete state (Going to Pegasus Galaxy without good weapons is just asking for it!) so a 'transport mission' would get the crew aclimatised without too much risk (Still trouble found them lol).

Schony
October 20th, 2009, 05:31 PM
I just have to point out something regarding the Asgard Beam Weapons. Has anyone noticed that any of our ships only carry two of these things mounted to either side of the bow? The only ship that was ever shown to carry more was the Odyssey, and the only time Odyssey ever used them was in Unending, and I'd have to go back and look but I think Odyssey had somewhere between 4 and 8 of them. So, let's make some assumptions.

1. Asgard beaming technology has some limitations and they can't simply replicate Asgard Beams at will.

2. Like the Tollan Ion cannons, having the blueprints to build something, and being able to build it are two very different things.

So, what if Odyssey came full of Asgard Tech, but we can't actually build the Asgard Beams yet? I'm thinking they actually removed the weapons from Odyssey, and installed two each on Deadalus, Apollo, and Sun-Tzu. So....it could be the Hammond has none because we still can't manage to build them from scratch ourselves. And if Odyssey had let's say 6 of them, then putting two on each of the aforementioned ships would have used them all. In a way that would make sense because with the Asgard core, you wouldn't want to send Odyssey into battle if you didn't have to, and besides that having 3 less valuable ships each equipped with two beams would be far more practical than just having the one uber-ship.

Of course, an explanation in the show would eliminate any confusion, but short of that, this makes sense to me.

soulgazer
October 25th, 2009, 07:26 PM
I just have to point out something regarding the Asgard Beam Weapons. Has anyone noticed that any of our ships only carry two of these things mounted to either side of the bow? The only ship that was ever shown to carry more was the Odyssey, and the only time Odyssey ever used them was in Unending, and I'd have to go back and look but I think Odyssey had somewhere between 4 and 8 of them. So, let's make some assumptions.

1. Asgard beaming technology has some limitations and they can't simply replicate Asgard Beams at will.

2. Like the Tollan Ion cannons, having the blueprints to build something, and being able to build it are two very different things.

So, what if Odyssey came full of Asgard Tech, but we can't actually build the Asgard Beams yet? I'm thinking they actually removed the weapons from Odyssey, and installed two each on Deadalus, Apollo, and Sun-Tzu. So....it could be the Hammond has none because we still can't manage to build them from scratch ourselves. And if Odyssey had let's say 6 of them, then putting two on each of the aforementioned ships would have used them all. In a way that would make sense because with the Asgard core, you wouldn't want to send Odyssey into battle if you didn't have to, and besides that having 3 less valuable ships each equipped with two beams would be far more practical than just having the one uber-ship.

Of course, an explanation in the show would eliminate any confusion, but short of that, this makes sense to me.

u have som good points, the asgard r more advanced then the tollen, so that makes sense. BUt i think the asgard core wood have been removed 4 safety. And what about the transporter tech? that is reverse watever -able
:thoranime09:

Replicator Todd
October 25th, 2009, 08:41 PM
This thread saddens me....:(

Mad
October 27th, 2009, 06:42 PM
Why the hell is it the GENERAL Hammond though? That goes against all previous naming conventions by the US military.

I thought they renamed it to George Hammond, which is more in line with naming conventions.

soulgazer
October 28th, 2009, 03:19 PM
I thought they renamed it to George Hammond, which is more in line with naming conventions.

:indeed:

Pharaoh Atem
November 14th, 2009, 04:34 PM
Why the hell is it the GENERAL Hammond though? That goes against all previous naming conventions by the US military.

it's to pay respect to one of the best characters in the series.

Laxian of Earth
December 7th, 2009, 03:37 AM
The Hammond was just being completed at the end of SGA
so it's possible that the APBWs may not have been installed yet
At any rate; if the Hammond had destroyed the ships, they may not have gotten to Destiny at all.

which would have been realistic - even more: why would they send an incomplete ship to do a supply run in a galaxy were jaffa (some off those went rouge before), lucian alliance and other (old goa'uld - there sure are some left - even if it is only minor lords like ketesh (vala's snake), ashen (hey it would be time to kick their ass now, now that we can ;) and others)??
- they wouldn't because it endangers the crew! (a ship that has cool shields but no weapons that are good is useless as we have seen when the Daedalus first appeared fighting the wraith, the ship was useless it couldn't damage the wraith and railguns/missiles are even more useless against shielded ha'taks (beams however would be good here))

greetings LAX
ps: even more illogic is, that the base they can't beam into (which is stupid as they are able to scan the SGC and beam into it!) doesn't at least have rings in order to get supplies and people in and out.
pps: as for someone further up saying that it is unclear if the beams would work on ha'taks - that has never been shown, but everything that can blow up an ori ship and damage ancient ships should be able to dice up ha'taks by the dozens (even with the little asgard tech they got from thor), as the upgrades they gave earth before dying are a quantum leap compared to what they had before (at least for weapons)

Vanir
November 19th, 2010, 11:33 AM
People need to think before they state things, The only ship that got the Asgard beam weapons was the odyssey and backwards engineering something that you know little about is next to impossible, i vaguely remember the Daedalus using the beam weapons aswell but aint sure about that one ill have to check that :P

No... the Daedalus and Apollo both had Asgard beam weapons in SGA. So the Hammond should have it too..!

garhkal
November 20th, 2010, 02:59 AM
Why couldn't the hammond defeat three alliance ships when it's capable of destroying an ori or hive ship with a couple of asgard beam weapon shots???

Your making the assumption it has them. For all we know, the Hammond could have been getting built during the events of Enemy At the Gates, and was undergoing 'space trials', so was being used to run supplies to and from Icarus.


Heck maybe they started being used but there were too many gliders deployed by time they started killing part of the LA.

Or telford (since he was uptop when the attack happened) used his knowledge and took them off line since he was brainwashed..




People need to think before they state things, The only ship that got the Asgard beam weapons was the odyssey and backwards engineering something that you know little about is next to impossible, i vaguely remember the Daedalus using the beam weapons aswell but aint sure about that one ill have to check that



The apollo was also outfitted with them.. see season 4 of atlantis.


which would have been realistic - even more: why would they send an incomplete ship to do a supply run in a galaxy were jaffa (some off those went rouge before), lucian alliance and other (old goa'uld - there sure are some left - even if it is only minor lords like ketesh (vala's snake), ashen (hey it would be time to kick their ass now, now that we can and others)??

Because supposedly it was A) 27 light years away, closer than even abydos, and B) secret.


No... the Daedalus and Apollo both had Asgard beam weapons in SGA. So the Hammond should have it too..!

See an above post by Schony.. It gives a very reasonable explanation for why the hammond didn't have any..

For a rehas. WE got 8 installed on the Oddy by the Asgard. We took 2 off for the Apollo, Dadelus and Sun Tzu.. so each of our first 4 ships would have 2 each.. ergo none left for the Hammond.

Ukko
December 11th, 2010, 11:29 AM
Why is it that when we're given the information, the writers are accused of dumming down and spoon feedings as if we were children who cant figure things out for ourselvs. When we dont get the information we get accusations of bad writing.

The ship was new. It hadnt had all its weapons (APB) installed yet and it was taken completely by supprise by 3 Ha'taks (Still powerful ships). Sam didnt have time to stand around explaining that this and that hadnt been installed yet, she was to busy doing her job.

dacooker
December 12th, 2010, 05:29 AM
Why is it that when we're given the information, the writers are accused of dumming down and spoon feedings as if we were children who cant figure things out for ourselvs. When we dont get the information we get accusations of bad writing.

The ship was new. It hadnt had all its weapons (APB) installed yet and it was taken completely by supprise by 3 Ha'taks (Still powerful ships). Sam didnt have time to stand around explaining that this and that hadnt been installed yet, she was to busy doing her job.

lol the ship wasn't new
It was the Phoenix renamed George Hammond in honour of the general after he died. It had all the weapons the other 304's have.

Why Carter wouldn't use them, we'll never know....lol rail guns and missiles....PEW PEW Beam weapons please!

thekillman
December 12th, 2010, 05:57 AM
lol the ship wasn't new
It was the Phoenix renamed George Hammond in honour of the general after he died. It had all the weapons the other 304's have.

it is. also remember that in The Last Man, the Phoenix was rushed into action.

if it had any notable weapons capability, the Hammond would've been used in the battle in EATG.


however even IF it had APBW's, why wouldn't Telford have told the LA where to hit the Hammond in the opening attack to quickly disable them

Ukko
December 12th, 2010, 06:22 AM
it is. also remember that in The Last Man, the Phoenix was rushed into action.

if it had any notable weapons capability, the Hammond would've been used in the battle in EATG.


however even IF it had APBW's, why wouldn't Telford have told the LA where to hit the Hammond in the opening attack to quickly disable them

And in EATG Carter says its their "New Daedalus class ship."

garhkal
December 13th, 2010, 02:50 AM
however even IF it had APBW's, why wouldn't Telford have told the LA where to hit the Hammond in the opening attack to quickly disable them

Heck.. maybe the la had more than one spy, one who's role was to ensue those weapons were off line.

Quetzocoetl
February 24th, 2011, 07:49 AM
Why is it that when we're given the information, the writers are accused of dumming down and spoon feedings as if we were children who cant figure things out for ourselvs. When we dont get the information we get accusations of bad writing.



I'm going to have to agree with this.
Personally, I don't get why we want characters to take time out of a hectic moment to explain something everybody involved already knows. Everybody on the Hammond knows that the beam weapons aren't ready, O'Neill more than likely knows, and I'm sure Carter wasn't going to radio the base just to say "Oh, BTW, we don't have our weapons fully installed". I like being able to fill in some blanks myself, it makes the galaxy seem a little more complex and less standardized.

I'd say there were a few things that affected the Hammond here:
-It was new, so it was unfinished. It was put in charge of transporting people to Icarus, but nobody was expecting an attack. Saying that the ship should've been prepared for an attack is like saying the Alpha Site should have a fully functional 304 flying around it at all times.
-I'd like to believe that the galaxy hasn't stayed stagnant since the early days of SG-1. The Lucien Alliance may have simply planned to launch the attack with their best Hataks, bolstering them up with intelligence gained from Telford and the hundreds of planets they visit daily. I found it odd that in SG-1, nearly every Hatak had the same exact layout, same shield strength, same weapon strength, even though they were built by different Goa'uld on different planets. Whenever there was one that took a bit more punishment or could block Asgard Beaming tech, it seemed rather plausible that upgrades would've been implemented.