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Madwelshboy
October 4th, 2009, 04:46 AM
PARIS HILTON GUEST STARS ó Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) decide to start hunting together again and their first case leads them to a small town whose inhabitants are being killed by famous dead icons like Abraham Lincoln and James Deanís car. However, after two teenage girls come forward and claim their friend was kidnapped by Paris Hilton (in a cameo role as herself), the brothers arenít sure what they are hunting anymore. Jim Conway directed the episode written by Julie Siege

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POST VIEWING DISCUSSION ONLY

the fifth man
October 8th, 2009, 07:08 PM
Really good episode tonight. A bit lighter tone, but that is a nice change of pace. Paris Hilton was actually pretty good in her appearance. Nice to see she can poke fun at herself a bit. I must say, it is good to see the Winchester brothers back on the same page.

Krisz
October 8th, 2009, 10:08 PM
This had so many fun bits, made me laugh. Honestly, only Supernatural can give Ghandi an evil edge, that was so off the wall seeing Sam being attacked by 'Ghandi'!

I was also really hoping at the point where the evil forest god was going to torment Dean with his 'idol', that we'd see Jeffrey Dean Morgan again. That would have been great!

Totally agree, it's good to see the boys back working together. Bring on the apocalypse!

Arative
October 9th, 2009, 06:12 AM
When I first heard Paris Hilton was going to be on Supernatural, I was like Oh Sh*t. But surprisingly she was pretty good. I liked the line Dean said about never having seen House of Wax, since Jared and Paris were both in that movie.

This episode was a nice change of pace from the last 4, less mythology and more a self contained episode. It was good to see the boys back together, but I'm glad the writers aren't just forgetting what has happened and they boys didn't go back like before.

iolanda
October 9th, 2009, 07:53 AM
It was not only good to see the boys back together, it was also good, that they finally talked and admitted that both made mistakes.

For the episode it was nice to see that they played with their own mythology and that it wasn't a ghost but another pagan god who has to live a life without admirers.

For more I have to see the ep again, but I have to skip the overview at the end, that left me laughing with tears.

Crichiel
October 9th, 2009, 01:22 PM
Sorry guys. I generally have a 2 hr. window on Fridays at work to post my review (while the little one is sleeping), but the site was down during that time today. Now I don't have a computer until Monday. Right now I am accessing Gateworld on my phone. And not only does it take 5-10 minutes to download each page on my phone, but if I were to write one of my usual reviews on this, my thumbs would fall off!!

So quickly for now: I loved the supernatural 'A' story of this ep. I thought it was clever, Interesting and hilarious and I was surprised that Paris Hilton did such a great job with the humour. The 'B' story with the boys has grown on me with subsequent viewings, but I have a few issues with it.

Ugh! Thumbs already sore. I'm not a teenager who has worked up 'text callouses' !! ;-) Sorry again guys, I'll do an in-depth Monday!

LoneStar1836
October 9th, 2009, 01:36 PM
I thought it was a descent little stand alone. Far from a favorite episode, even amongst stand alones, but the Paris parts were actually better than I thought they would be. Granted I don't care for her, but she was good.

The brother stuff was good. Never thought they would go back to acting as if nothing had happened, but some necessary things had to be said. Not sure I agreed with everything that was said or with how Dean was acting.

LizzieAnne
October 9th, 2009, 03:23 PM
I loved it and wasnít sure I would. Just the thought of Paris Hilton in it made me worry, but she was OK as it turned out and as Sam got to chop her head off Öeven better. :D

I suppose the ep counts as filler but thatís kind of expected in any Season so I donít have any issues on that score. Supernatural stand alone fillers are nearly always excellent. What I like about the way these eps are done though is that they always have a thread running through them that links them to the main storyline. In this case it was the boyís relationship issues.

Iíve been waiting and hoping for this bit and it felt right. They both behaved how I thought they should. Dean has always been more than an older brother to Sam, more like a parent, he even said the immortal parental words of Ďif you go out of that door donít come backí, or words to that effect, in Season 4. Dean admitted to Cas that it was a strain being with Sam, presumably because he felt he had to look out for him all the time... obliged to be responsible for him. So something had to change.

Iíve always thought since the end of the last Season that the only way they could be happy together again was if their relationship changed into something more adult ...then they could become more equal.

I liked that Dean has finally admitted that he was partly responsible for the apocalypse; itís always frustrated me that he didnít seem able to recognise that or even say it before. I also like that Sam is standing up for himself while still being sorry for what heís done.

Iím really interested where the writers are going to take the relationship now. I hope they keep it going forwards and not backwards in any way.

Jeffer
October 9th, 2009, 06:06 PM
awesome ep i loved the reference to House of Wax cause watching that movie I was like where is Dean and why is he not saving sam

Did anyone else notice who they had someone trapped flame circle in the clips from eps to come i am wondering if they trapped Lucifer

Kuldiin
October 11th, 2009, 05:10 AM
No love for the Doc?:(

Was good to see Paul again

marielabbott
October 11th, 2009, 10:31 AM
It was good to see Paul again, and I was happy that he survived. Poor Kavan didn't survive past his episode's trailer. :p

I thought the episode was OK, though I doubt it will be among my favorites. Paris Hilton's bits were surprisingly funny, and the Gandhi attack was craziness like only Supernatural can do. :p The evil Abe was one of the freakiest things I've seen on the show.

I'm glad the brothers are patching things up. Really glad. But I have mixed reactions about some of the things each of them said.

Crichiel
October 12th, 2009, 03:29 PM
Shoot! Am I too late? Everyone done discussing this one already? I'm not!! :D

Ok, I'll start with the "A" story of the episode. Like I said, I liked it a lot. I have been itching for a good 'filler' story, and this one delivered in spades. No, fillers don't usually end up on peoples' favourites list, but I like the break-in-the-action they give you after a series of heavy-arc stories. And this one was solid. For one thing, it was a cool new story. We haven't seen a demi-god in a while and I liked the whole idea of the wax museum and using our modern idols against us. I really was surprised by Paris Hilton's performance. There were one of two lines where I thought her delivery was pretty weak, but other than that, if I hadn't known who she was, I would have thought she was a legitimate tv actress. Plus, bonus points for totally making fun of herself! :)

The other thing that I loved about this part of the story was how Sam and Dean were interacting. It was the first episode this year where they were acting like 'Sam and Dean On a Case'. The humour, the teasing, the research, the action. While I knew they would have to address recent events, it was nice how they slipped back into their investigative roles while working. My favourite parts were 1) inspecting the car (both Dean's trepidation and Sam's hilarious popping under there to ask if Dean needs a flashlight, scaring the bejeebers out of him) and 2)their reaction to the girls telling them it was Paris Hilton who attacked them. I didn't like Sam's "Yahtzee!", though. Somehow Jared doesn't quite say it as naturally as Jensen and it sounded odd to me. There are some lines that are Dean-lines, some that are Sam-lines and some either could carry. For me, "Yahtzee!" is a Dean-line. But I quibble! ;)

All right-y then. Let's see if I can make sense of my feelings about the boys' drama this week. I might be all over the place here because even with the weekend to think about it, I am having a hard time articulating clearly why it seemed so off to me.

The issues definitely needed to be brought up. I didn't want it shoved under a rug. And they both had some legitimate points. But I thought there were quite a few things said and done that didn't track with their relationship if you look at it over the series as a whole (Boy! I apologise now for how disorganised my points will most likely be! :o).

As we've said numerous times now, the writers try not to let viewers side with one brother over the other. But I think in this one, they definitely crossed the line with Dean. He had parts where he really came off as a jerk. No matter how angry he was/is with Sam, it was OOC for me. He was just too harsh. Flat out bossing Sam around and making him do research while he was in the bar? And not even apologising for what he said to Bobby over the phone about Sam being the cause of the apocalypse (I was actually waiting for him to tell Sam he had misunderstood, but not only did he not say it, he didn't even have the decency to be ashamed of saying what he did).

And what about that blame? Sure, he said at the end how he wasn't COMPLETELY blameless, since he broke the first seal, but it was very perfunctory. Like he threw that in as an afterthought to say, "Well,...it wasn't ALL your fault, Sam." Hello?!! Go back and watch OTHOAP again when Dean finds out about that first seal. He was HORRIFIED. He was devasted. He totally gave up because of the guilt he felt from that. So much so that Zachariah had to come up with that elaborate scheme to snap him out of it. And you're telling me now that Dean can just brush that off with a, "Yeah, I guess I'm not perfect either."? Don't think so. That wasn't enough for me. :(

So what about the bossing Sam around and treating him like a kid brother? This one isn't quite so cut and dried. True, Dean has always protected Sam like a little brother and I, for one, hope that doesn't change. It is what makes Dean, Dean. It is his identity and we love him for his fiercely protective nature (well, I do! ;)). Does he boss Sam around? Yeah, he does at times, I will absolutely give them that. Sam was right on this point. But there were also times when Sam has been the one making decisions and Dean just had to trust him (also why in When the Levee Breaks, I thought Sam saying he just wanted Dean to trust him ONE time was a little farfetched...but I digress :o). When Sam's college friend was in trouble, he made Dean turn the car around and drive hundreds of miles so they could help. When Sam had a vision of Max Miller's dad, he told Dean he just had to trust him and Dean did, driving all night to get there even though he had no clue what was going on. I'd say that the decision making definitely isn't a 50/50 split, Dean takes charge of the hunts a lot more often. But very seldom will Dean dismiss Sam's ideas out of hand. And I never got the feeling Dean didn't tTRUST Sam until season 4....when he kinda had good reason! ;)

Now last year was totally different, I'll grant you that. And I suppose you could say, "Well, it's not Sam's fault because he wasn't really himself last year and he is talking about it being uneven BEFORE he went off with Ruby.", but I think that is a bit of a cop-out because I found examples to the contrary before then. Anyway, let's look at season 4. Last year it was Sam who was treating Dean like a little kid. There were the visual cues to this (Sam kept leaving Dean behind, sleeping in the motel rooms like he was waiting for the kids to go to sleep so he go out and do his 'grown up' stuff). And there were the things Sam said. He kept telling people (Ruby, Chuck) that Dean wasn't strong enough, that Dean couldn't handle the hunting anymore, yada yada yada. In fact, the weakness that the siren exploited in Dean was the insecurity he was feeling because Sam was suddenly the take-charge one of the two brothers. Bad enough that he wasn't his kid brother that looked up to him, but Sam was actually taking the lead and bossing DEAN around. Again, that challenges Dean's whole identity.

Also, if I were Dean (because I am that petty in fights! :D) I would throw back at Sam that he doesn't give Dean enough credit for his intelligence, like I brought up in Good God, Y'all. Even with Dean acting as Sam's father figure, I always put their partnership on a pretty even level. That's because they are different people, but they compliment each other well. Dean is the action, super-hunter, which doesn't mean that he doesn't have the intelligence or know how to do the research (evidenced by Free to Be You and Me). And Sam is the intelligent, super-researcher, which doesn't mean that he isn't a capable hunter. And until season 4 (that season kind of threw everything out the window, didn't it?), they seemed to understand their respective strengths and weaknesses in this regard and used their complimentary skills to work as a super-hunting-researching-duo.

The Impala is another great way to track their relationship. In Wendigo, you have the big moment where Dean shows he DOES accept that Sam has grown up by offering to let him drive for the first time. During season 1, Dean does most of the driving (it is HIS car ;)), but there are times when Sam gets to drive as well. In seasons 2 and 3? Sam doesn't drive (except for in Malleus Maleficarum when he has to take the car to get help because Dean is dying on a motel floor). I read an interview with an author of the Supernatural novels and he said that when he asked the creators of the show about it, they told him that Dean doing all the driving (in season 2 at least, not sure about season 3) WAS intentional. My GUESS is that in season 2, it was done to subconsciously emphasize Dean's wariness after John told him he might have to kill Sam. And in season 3, maybe because they were having Dean behave as "Deanlike" as possible for his last year on earth, which would mean bonding time with his Baby. But in that topsy-turvy season 4, Sam was getting his turn behind the wheel again. Dean let him take it by himself (Are You There, God...) and when he was in the car with him (same ep, and also OTHOAP). To me, this suggested Dean's detachment from the world after his time in Hell and Sam's new place as the New Dean. So while in Good God, Y'all it was HUUUUUUGE that Dean offered to let Sam TAKE the car, I thought letting Sam drive wasn't such a big deal and only proved to me (by how un-big a deal it was in my mind), that things weren't as lopsided as Sam was implying.

So what's it all boil down to? Dunno. I DID like that they had such big conversations and didn't try to minimise the damage. And some of the FEELINGS they were conveying were completely understandable. But the actual words they said (and Dean's awful treatment of Sam at times), didn't ring true to me and kind of had me bristling. As I mentioned last Friday, it got better with subsequent viewings, but still....:confused:

LoneStar1836
October 12th, 2009, 05:06 PM
I didn't like Sam's "Yahtzee!", though. Somehow Jared doesn't quite say it as naturally as Jensen and it sounded odd to me. There are some lines that are Dean-lines, some that are Sam-lines and some either could carry. For me, "Yahtzee!" is a Dean-line. But I quibble! ;)Yeah, when he said that I was like Sam never says that. Not that you don't pick up on things say and incorporate them into your own vocabulary, but that is generally a Dean word and it made me take notice. No biggie though.


As we've said numerous times now, the writers try not to let viewers side with one brother over the other. But I think in this one, they definitely crossed the line with Dean. He had parts where he really came off as a jerk. No matter how angry he was/is with Sam, it was OOC for me. He was just too harsh. Flat out bossing Sam around and making him do research while he was in the bar? And not even apologising for what he said to Bobby over the phone about Sam being the cause of the apocalypse (I was actually waiting for him to tell Sam he had misunderstood, but not only did he not say it, he didn't even have the decency to be ashamed of saying what he did).Agreed. Not that I don't think he can never be a jerk, but to me it seemed like it was a chore in this episode that Sam is now back with him. As if they were forced back together, and Dean only begrudgingly called Sam to ask him to team back up.

Dean emphasized in The End that they needed to stick together to keep each other from going over the edge. I thought Dean was pretty sincere in that episode and really felt that he needed to be back with Sam...that he made that choice ultimately to save himself while hoping to save Sam in the process. But in this episode, his attitude was one of "great, ol' ball and chain Sam again...." If Dean feels he needs Sam to help save himself, then make the effort damn it.

I just felt he was being a jackass at times in this episode...not with the hunting part of the ep (except for him hitting the bar a making Sam do all the work), but in the scenes with just he and Sam. Not saying they need to be all chipper with each other all the time, but at least make the effort to not push Sam away.

Basically Sam is making the effort to make this work, and Dean is not, imo. If anything, if Dean doesn't straighten up the attitude he had in this episode, he will be the one to push Sam to say yes, and I just don't like that. Tossing Sam the keys is a nice gesture, but it only goes so far.

Crichiel
October 13th, 2009, 05:41 AM
Basically Sam is making the effort to make this work, and Dean is not, imo. If anything, if Dean doesn't straighten up the attitude he had in this episode, he will be the one to push Sam to say yes, and I just don't like that. Tossing Sam the keys is a nice gesture, but it only goes so far.

Exactly. And it is making Dean come off as unlikeable. Even to me!! :eek: Don't do that!! :(

LizzieAnne
October 13th, 2009, 02:15 PM
Just a bit more...

Although Deanís behaviour was a bit much in the epÖhis moaning on the phone to Bobby and him drinking in the bar while Sam did the researchÖ.I think Sam needed that to motivate him into saying what he did. In Deanís defence, for the phone call only, it was Bobby he was talking to and he is family so thatís what families doÖ.. b*tch and moan about each other! :P

Sam was being so subservient to Dean before that, so grateful that Dean had asked him back, it was as if Dean was taking advantage, but I donít think Dean was purposefully being a bully so much as he was in the grip of that classic family control thing that needed to be broken. Sam did that by standing up to him.

I reckon there maybe a few more blips to overcome but I think theyíve gotten over the worst. Although I still think Dean has to come to terms with his stint in hell. :S I mean who wouldn't.

Iíd always thought that the Impala was a bit of an extension of Deanís personality but hadnít considered anything else. Didnít think there was any meaning there so now I have something else to look out for as I have my re-watch. :D

starg8fans
October 14th, 2009, 08:18 AM
I totally agree, I didn't like the way the boys interacted, and it seemed a bit OOC to me. The only 'excuse' I can think of for Dean's behavior is that in spite of the fact that he called Sam back in he's still struggling with the fact that Sam said 'yes' to Lucifer in the future Zach showed him in the last episode. This could explain a) why he was so domineering and trying to order Sam about (maybe he figures it's his job to watch over Sam's actions so he doesn't go down that road), and b) why he was so bitter on the phone with Bobby. This in turn provoked Sam into making a bigger deal of the whole 'little brother' thing than it actually was. Because I agree again, in spite of their different strengths I've always seen them as pretty equal in their relationship.

These thoughts came to me while reading your posts, I'll have to re-watch the ep to see if they fit with what happens.

Crichiel
October 15th, 2009, 08:33 AM
I totally agree, I didn't like the way the boys interacted, and it seemed a bit OOC to me. The only 'excuse' I can think of for Dean's behavior is that in spite of the fact that he called Sam back in he's still struggling with the fact that Sam said 'yes' to Lucifer in the future Zach showed him in the last episode. This could explain a) why he was so domineering and trying to order Sam about (maybe he figures it's his job to watch over Sam's actions so he doesn't go down that road), and b) why he was so bitter on the phone with Bobby. This in turn provoked Sam into making a bigger deal of the whole 'little brother' thing than it actually was. Because I agree again, in spite of their different strengths I've always seen them as pretty equal in their relationship.

These thoughts came to me while reading your posts, I'll have to re-watch the ep to see if they fit with what happens.

I can see this, I guess. At least it helps ease my frustration a LITTLE bit if I put this spin on it....so I'll take this explanation for now! :D

starg8fans
October 15th, 2009, 11:58 AM
I can see this, I guess. At least it helps ease my frustration a LITTLE bit if I put this spin on it....so I'll take this explanation for now! :D

We're in the same boat, I love Dean too much to see him in a bad light.

BTW, somebody mentioned they were found it strange to see Dean doing research at the laptop. I think the only thing that's new is that he has his own laptop now, which makes sense since he was hunting on his own for a while. But we've seen Dean searching the web, off the top of my head I remember Provenance where he was on the laptop for a whole scene while Sam and the Pocahontas look-alike were talking, and in Wishing Well it was Dean who figured out what the coin was - while Sam caught the invisible naked 'ghost'. LMAO

Crichiel
October 15th, 2009, 12:08 PM
We're in the same boat, I love Dean too much to see him in a bad light.

BTW, somebody mentioned they were found it strange to see Dean doing research at the laptop. I think the only thing that's new is that he has his own laptop now, which makes sense since he was hunting on his own for a while. But we've seen Dean searching the web, off the top of my head I remember Provenance where he was on the laptop for a whole scene while Sam and the Pocahontas look-alike were talking, and in Wishing Well it was Dean who figured out what the coin was - while Sam caught the invisible naked 'ghost'. LMAO

Yep, I noticed that he has his OWN laptop now :cool:, which makes sense. And besides the ones you mentioned, he also did the computer search in Death Takes a Holiday He knows what he's doing in the research department, he just can't crack passwords and such like Computer-Wiz Sam. :)

starg8fans
October 15th, 2009, 12:37 PM
Yep, I noticed that he has his OWN laptop now :cool:, which makes sense. And besides the ones you mentioned, he also did the computer search in Death Takes a Holiday He knows what he's doing in the research department, he just can't crack passwords and such like Computer-Wiz Sam. :)

I like it how the writers leave these little hints that show that Dean is more intelligent than he lets on. When he knew the two Vonnegut books in The Monster at the End of this Book for example, or when he mentioned that he had a GED in Sympathy for the Devil?

LizzieAnne
October 15th, 2009, 02:34 PM
Perhaps I never saw Dean's behaviour in the ep as OOC as I thought his behaviour was the continuation of his gradual character change for the worse (there were lots of scenes of him despairing about Sam in Season 4) which would eventually lead to the hardened future Dean. Now that they're back together (hopefully forgiving each other) that should not now happen.

Crichiel
November 16th, 2009, 11:54 AM
Interesting, I just re-watched Hollywood Babylon last night and in it, when Dean digs down and hits the coffin of the old Hollywood starlet, you hear SAM say "Yahtzee". I had to rewind to be sure, but yep, it was Sam. So I guess Fallen Idol wasn't the first time Sam said it. But in Hollywood Babylon, it still sounded just as 'off'. Even with this precedent, I will always think of this as a Dean-line. :o