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s09119
October 3rd, 2009, 10:21 AM
I was just rewatching "Air, Part 1" and something really struck me; when Scott comes in the gate room and shouts for everyone to listen, Senator Armstrong orders him to dial Earth immediately, and Scott yells back for him to shut up. As far as I recall, the soldier placed in charge of an outpost (in this case Scott, given command from Young before he passed out) would effectively outrank everyone until a superior officer says otherwise. So did Armstrong have a point? Did Scott have an obligation to follow his orders, or was he being out of line, even with his position as a Senator?

dosed150
October 3rd, 2009, 11:25 AM
i doubt a senator would have any power to order soldiers around

koroush47
October 3rd, 2009, 11:43 AM
Scott being in charge was annoying.

This kid is like 20 years old and he is ordering people around.

jelgate
October 3rd, 2009, 11:50 AM
From what I know of US military (and I admit that is limitied) a US senator has no authority to order around a soldier. Although given our politicians they would like to think they do. The only politician I think that can order a soldier is the president

Coronach
October 3rd, 2009, 11:52 AM
Scott being in charge was annoying.

This kid is like 20 years old and he is ordering people around.

His age has nothing to do with it, though he is 26 years old if we're going to be technical.



From what I know of US military (and I admit that is limitied) a US senator has no authority to order around a soldier. Although given our politicians they would like to think they do. The only politician I think that can order a soldier is the president

I think you're probably right, which is why I'm glad they played up that angle with Senator Armstrong. It made perfect sense, as that is totally what would happen in a real situation like that.

s09119
October 3rd, 2009, 12:04 PM
I think you're probably right, which is why I'm glad they played up that angle with Senator Armstrong. It made perfect sense, as that is totally what would happen in a real situation like that.

Okay, that's what I thought; the President is the only politician to hold a commander title (commander-in-chief), but I wanted to double-check that nothing had changed in regards to Congressmen.

garhkal
October 3rd, 2009, 03:57 PM
Being a congressman he was probabily used to having people follow his orders...

Gallienus
October 4th, 2009, 03:50 AM
If memory serves, a civilian can not give a direct order to a military officer, unless that person is the President and therefore Commander and Chief of the armed forces. What I liked about Scott's assertion of authority was something that might pay off later in the series. Destiny is going to be run effectively as a military dictatorship, so long as its completely severed from Earth. That's sure to rub more than a few people the wrong way, especially given the fact that military protocol and the chain of command, as it were, might not set well with weary civilians over the long term. Of course, I'm trying desperately not to draw any parallels between Battlestar Galactica and SGU, but who knows, perhaps that's what they're going for.

EternalAlteran
October 4th, 2009, 11:38 AM
I think the chain of command is weird.

The IOA woman wants to be in power. She has know expertise to back up her claim. Knowlegde of politics doesn't really contribute to find a way to survive.

The senator is an arrogant American. His line: I'm the U.S. Senator, was really stupid. When your there, it doesn't matter where you come from and which position you hold back home. Also the fact that he says to scott: How dare you?, is stupid. He's just a human, he is nothing special, and he surely is not in command of the military.

Scott's action of forcing the others to obey him, was in my opinion really stargate. The military is always taking command. Like Sheppard who disobeys Weir's quarantine in Hot Zone. Scott has no knowlegde of the ship, so he should not be in charge there.

Rush should be in charge in my opinion. He has the most knowlegde of Ancient technology. He knows the most of the language and is thus in the best position to control the ship. He was able to gather information from the database about the ship and he came somewhat prepared with the Ancient stones. Also he thinks most logically, and thus helps the crew to survive. Like when they needed to shut the shuttle door, he, although maybe not ethically correcy, checks the peoples skills first, so they can keep the persons needed for survival alive, and thus ensuring as many people as possible stay alive. Also he makes an argument against dailing the gate, because he knows it won't work, and he doesn't want to try it for the sake of moral. This is smart because he knows they need as much power as possible. Rush is the person to be in charge, because he uses logic to allow as many people as possible to survive, and he examines situations logically without doing stupid thing for moral.

thekillman
October 6th, 2009, 09:08 AM
The IOA woman wants to be in power. She has know expertise to back up her claim. Knowlegde of politics doesn't really contribute to find a way to survive.

politics=leadership and effective command. ( well, if life were perfect)

she could be good at leading, and as an IOA person she should be quite well informed on matters. knowledge and leadership.

quite contrary to popular belief, leadership is THE most important thing in survival. somebody has to decide the best thing, and a good leader does that. pulling straws, stone paper scissors or majority vote are not as good as they seem to be

Cold Fuzz
October 7th, 2009, 05:57 PM
If memory serves, a civilian can not give a direct order to a military officer, unless that person is the President and therefore Commander and Chief of the armed forces. What I liked about Scott's assertion of authority was something that might pay off later in the series. Destiny is going to be run effectively as a military dictatorship, so long as its completely severed from Earth. That's sure to rub more than a few people the wrong way, especially given the fact that military protocol and the chain of command, as it were, might not set well with weary civilians over the long term. Of course, I'm trying desperately not to draw any parallels between Battlestar Galactica and SGU, but who knows, perhaps that's what they're going for.

Quite correct. Senator Armstrong technically couldn't order any of the SGC personnel to do anything--even go to the bathroom. However, someone like Armstrong could give an order to local law enforcement or other government employees. Earlier this year, a California state senator decided to visit my workplace. My supervising ranger has only one standing order for all VIPs: Do anything they tell you to do--within reason.

Though they're technically civvies, other scientists like Volker, Franklin, Brody, and Palmer have all worked alongside Icarus SGC personnel on a consistent basis. Though they might not be technically in the chain of command, they know the rules of the game.

Encoder
October 7th, 2009, 06:21 PM
I was just rewatching "Air, Part 1" and something really struck me; when Scott comes in the gate room and shouts for everyone to listen, Senator Armstrong orders him to dial Earth immediately, and Scott yells back for him to shut up. As far as I recall, the soldier placed in charge of an outpost (in this case Scott, given command from Young before he passed out) would effectively outrank everyone until a superior officer says otherwise. So did Armstrong have a point? Did Scott have an obligation to follow his orders, or was he being out of line, even with his position as a Senator?

I believe that Military protocols states quite clearly, no orders are to be followed unless they are received from a superior Military officer.

Armstrong, though ultimately could influence the orders given, has no authority whatsoever in a Military situation.

:sheppard:

Mrja84
October 7th, 2009, 07:54 PM
Rush should be in charge in my opinion. He has the most knowlegde of Ancient technology. He knows the most of the language and is thus in the best position to control the ship. He was able to gather information from the database about the ship and he came somewhat prepared with the Ancient stones. Also he thinks most logically, and thus helps the crew to survive. Like when they needed to shut the shuttle door, he, although maybe not ethically correcy, checks the peoples skills first, so they can keep the persons needed for survival alive, and thus ensuring as many people as possible stay alive. Also he makes an argument against dailing the gate, because he knows it won't work, and he doesn't want to try it for the sake of moral. This is smart because he knows they need as much power as possible. Rush is the person to be in charge, because he uses logic to allow as many people as possible to survive, and he examines situations logically without doing stupid thing for moral.


Okay first, please break up your paragraphs into smaller bits instead of one long wall of text.

Second, Rush did not bring the stones. You saw Young grab them from the boxes before running to the gate as everything exploded.

When he came out and landed on the ground, everyone was worried about him. Rush took that opportunity to take the bag and use the stones to make sure they worked.

He claimed to have brought them when it was in fact Colonel Young.

Cold Fuzz
October 8th, 2009, 11:35 AM
Okay first, please break up your paragraphs into smaller bits instead of one long wall of text.

Second, Rush did not bring the stones. You saw Young grab them from the boxes before running to the gate as everything exploded.

When he came out and landed on the ground, everyone was worried about him. Rush took that opportunity to take the bag and use the stones to make sure they worked.

He claimed to have brought them when it was in fact Colonel Young.

Exactly right. Using the communications stones in an attempt to grab power; not exactly good qualifications for ethical leadership. Young needs to be in charge of the Destiny. Period. He needs to contact General O'Neill and establish an effective chain of command: Rush may be in charge of the scientists and ship operations, but all command-level decisions need to be cleared through Young.