PDA

View Full Version : The End (504)



Madwelshboy
September 22nd, 2009, 01:06 PM
TWO DEAN WINCHESTERS? — Sam (Jared Padalecki) tells Dean (Jensen Ackles) he wants to rejoin Dean in the battle of the Apocalypse, but Dean tells Sam that they are better off apart. Later, Dean awakens five years in the future in an abandoned city and is attacked by humans who have been infected with a demonic virus that turns humans into Zombies. Zachariah (guest star Kurt Fuller) appears to Dean and explains that this is the world that exists as a result of Dean saying no to helping the angels fight Lucifer. Dean meets up with Future Dean, who tells him that the virus is the Devil's endgame for destroying mankind. Misha Collins also stars. Steve Boyum directed the episode written by Ben Edlund.

http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv170/madwelsboy/ba529fc2421875a1e8c846fb266ca6fb.jpg

POST VIEWING DISSCUSION ONLY

Arative
October 2nd, 2009, 05:26 AM
I thought this was a damn good episode. Not only did it get the brothers back together but it showed what would happen if they remained apart. I would have liked to have seen what led Sam to accept yes to Lucifer. The scene between 2009 Dean and Lucifer was pretty powerful stuff. The fact that the Angels left Earth is pretty telling too of what they are all about. They didn't want to fight, so they just take off.

Excellent writing and acting all around. This season is just getting better and better.

Crichiel
October 2nd, 2009, 07:21 AM
Where are all the comments? Everyone holding their breath waiting for my post? ;););)

Have to wait a little longer. I have watched it through 3x and have taken all my notes, but I only have one minute on the computer right now. I will get back to you tonight when I have some time! Until then, I am excited to hear what you guys thought.

Ashizuri
October 2nd, 2009, 07:43 AM
I have to say that I was not at all impressed with Jared's performance as Satan in this. I don't know...it was a bit of a letdown for me. I was expecting more from him. Also, I'd like the think Sam was had a stronger character than just accepting Satan into his meatsuit, for any reason, but I can't really tell if Zachariah created that vision of the future to mess with Dean's head or if that was what could really come to pass should the brothers not reconnect. Either way, shame on you Sammy.

Jensen, however, was quite fabulous, as was Mischa. Pill popping, orgy arranging Castiel was the highlight of the episode for me.

It took me a few minutes to recognize Lexa Doig. I'm not a fan of her work but it was nice to see another SG actor on the TV.

The angels leaving earth makes me thing that they don't really want this fight so I'm wondering what their motivation is now. Why let Satan out if you not really interested in fighting him? I really do get the feeling that Michael/the angels are going to be the bad guys in the end.

I was very, very happy to see the Sam and Dean come together in the end. Dean giving Sam Ruby's knife was a pretty big "I'm trusting you, don't let me down" moment and I hope Sam can live up to it.

iolanda
October 2nd, 2009, 08:02 AM
The "Do you Love me"-Scene was a little bit nuts. Did they lend some Stargate troopers? :D

Anyway, what an episode (again). The future scenario was shockingly realistic as they really put a lot of effort on the set. Just CGI-town was a little bit too obvious, but ah, well, who cares? Its not the point of this episode.

So, Zack wants to teach Dean a lesson. Again. Finding him with the help of Jehovas witnesses was clever, I just don't know what a witness might think about that.

Cas is de-angelfied and spends his time with drugs an women for a change. Looks like Bobby is dead, Dean himself is hard edged and cold and Sam said the big Yes!

I think that Jared was great as Lucifers vessel. He was so much Sam - and wasn't Sam in the same moment, which made that whole scene even more impressive.

We don't know if this is really the future or just a vision created by Zach, and so we don't know if that was really Lucifer or just an image which wants to tell Dean Zachs lesson. Which is totally different to the conclusion Dean takes out of this: he still does not become a sword, but he wants to keep what makes him him: his humanity, and the same thing goes to Sam. I think that Dean was more shocked about his future self than about Lucifer!Sam.

So we have the reunification, which wasn't as touching as hoped, but it was a very important and sufficient step back together.

Oh, and very nice to see Lexa again :)

Switch42
October 2nd, 2009, 09:41 AM
I was so, so happy that Dean learned the lesson he needed to learn and not what Zachariah wanted him to learn. The boys really are stronger together. Sure, they're also each other's Achilles heel, but, ya know, that's family. I was just bawling my eyes out at the end when they got back together.

I did like Sam as Lucifer. There was this sense of restraint I got from him. That he really had to control his power to not just let it out all over the place. And the white suit was a nice touch. ;)

Jeffer
October 2nd, 2009, 12:27 PM
awesome ep through the entire show i felt like Zach was just making it all up and from what he said to dean right before Cas zapped him out of there it appears to be true. I am so happy they are back together every ep of this is keeping me on the edge of my seat

flameling
October 2nd, 2009, 12:42 PM
This was just a great ep. I like how it was implied that non of that ever happened. I also like how Lucifer told Dean that it would be redundant to kill him. More interestingly though is that Lucifer doesn't want to destroy the Earth. I was under that impression. Now it seems to no longer be a war for Earth, but of humanity itself.

LoneStar1836
October 2nd, 2009, 01:18 PM
I thought the episode was good. Upon initial viewing, not my favorite AU ep, but I definitely need to watch it again as it was so dialogue heavy.

I don't trust Zach at all...or I certainly don't trust him to tell the whole story as he is trying to manipulate Dean for his own purposes. The future is seeming set in stone on this show at times but sometimes it's not...like when Dean altered a couple of small things in Monster at the End of the Book. If you buy into the whole multiple alternate realities concept (thanks to Stargate :D), maybe Zach picked the worst vision of the possible future he could to show Dean. I certainly don't want him to just make something up as I find that a waste of an episode then. He showed Dean one of the worst things he could become...a monster. But saying yes is not the only way to avoid that possible future...I hope.

The most puzzling thing in the episode has to be the angels packing their bags and leaving humans to their fate. After all the threats by Zach about hounding Dean until he says yes, the angels couldn't hang around for a measly five years which to them should be nothing. I don't get that part. :S And think this might be where Zach was really manipulating Dean to suggest an urgency...that he can't wait around to eventually say yes.

Our Dean got cut in the future by a Croatoan zombie there at the beginning. Does anyone think this will play into the story later on? Or like Sam being immune to its effects so is Dean? Or was it just an episode detail that got overlooked and forgotten? He got cut and then that little tidbit got dropped or I don't recall anyone saying anything about it ever again.


Ya know. I wish people would stop destroying Houston. :P They nuked it in Independence Day and then Supernatural goes and picks on it. People seem to forget that Houston is one of the major energy producers in the US with all the refineries in the surrounding towns. Oh well, the never ending road construction problem was finally dealt with. Go blow up Dallas instead. :D

lol at the twisted humor...playing "Do You Love Me" as the military blows away the zombies. :D And Chuck telling Dean to horde away the TP. lol!

Next week looks like your classic MOTW episode as well as the seasonal "funny" episode. A break from the heavy episodes this season kicked off with.

marielabbott
October 2nd, 2009, 04:52 PM
Also, I'd like the think Sam was had a stronger character than just accepting Satan into his meatsuit, for any reason, but I can't really tell if Zachariah created that vision of the future to mess with Dean's head or if that was what could really come to pass should the brothers not reconnect.

Yes, I would hope that Sam has a stronger character than that too. But after the events of season four....:S I am not a fan of darkside Sam, so portions of last season were difficult for me to take. I'm also weary of the brothers being set up for a potential showdown, so last week's ep depressed me with the revelation that Sam is Lucifer's vessel.


The most puzzling thing in the episode has to be the angels packing their bags and leaving humans to their fate. After all the threats by Zach about hounding Dean until he says yes, the angels couldn't hang around for a measly five years which to them should be nothing. I don't get that part. :S And think this might be where Zach was really manipulating Dean to suggest an urgency...that he can't wait around to eventually say yes.

That was odd...if the angels jump-started Armageddon because they were weary and wanted an end to history, why did they leave when they had any chance to defeat Lucifer? And where did they go, anyway? I tend to think there is some truth in the vision, but I also think Zach was manipulating Dean as well.


Our Dean got cut in the future by a Croatoan zombie there at the beginning. Does anyone think this will play into the story later on? Or like Sam being immune to its effects so is Dean? Or was it just an episode detail that got overlooked and forgotten? He got cut and then that little tidbit got dropped or I don't recall anyone saying anything about it ever again.

That's a good question about Dean's immunity. I can see how Sam is supposedly Lucifer's vessel, with the demon blood in his veins, but how exactly is Dean prepared to be Michael's vessel? If it's passed through family lines, like Jimmy and his daughter, which parent passed it along to Dean? And what exactly is "it" anyway, that makes it possible for angels to inhabit these people? And does "it" make Dean immune to stuff like the virus? :p

What a bleak future. It reminded me of 28 Days Later. In the future, the only character that seemed to have any sweetness left was Chuck (And how did he manage that? Are the visions the angels send him so awful that the reality of what happens after the angels leave better for him? :eek:). Everything else was pretty much despair. My favorite bit was Dean's comment to Sam that they keep each other human, which I think is true. Weak and fallen creatures humans are--but also capable of love, which was what had been drained out of the future. I am very glad the brothers are back together again.

Crichiel
October 2nd, 2009, 06:38 PM
I'm baaaack! ;)

I am just so impressed with this season so far. Before the season started I spoilered myself for the first five episodes, then cut myself off. Out of the first 5, I was honestly only really excited about Sympathy for the Devil. But they have proven me wrong for each of the last 3, this one included. Maybe especially this one, because I am so not a fan of AU.

Here are the story points I enjoyed:
-Bringing back the Colt into the storyline. I know it is an iffy prop for the writers because it can be that 'too powerful' deus ex machina. But I always had a soft spot for that weapon. Query (and I know it's been asked before here): Could the Colt really kill Lucifer since Ruby's demon-killing knife has no effect on angels? :confused:

-Sam calling Dean. And right away dispelling any fear we all had that he would hide from Dean the fact that he was Lucifer's vessel. And the non-reaction from Dean was perfect, because honestly, how many more times can they be shocked before it becomes commonplace! ;)

-That Dean doesn't want Sam back, not because he doesn't trust him, or thinks he will be distracting, but because he recognises (and voices out LOUD!) that their love and familial bond makes them weaker. Awww! :o:) Although, suffering from a mild form of memory loss there, buddy? You were also the one who said the same thing in Shadows about staying with Dad, but then changed your mind a couple episodes later in Dead Man's Blood!

-I thought the way Zach tracked down Dean was actually amazingly clever.

-Can we please give it up for the Set Dec crew?! Yes, the wideshot cityscape was an obvious matte painting, but the level of detail in the physical environment where Jensen and those extras were running was outstanding!! It was like a full block of complete and utter destruction.

-Bringing back the Croatoan storyline. Although I am not as sure about the 'Dean being infected' thing as some of you are. I thought upon first viewing that Dean was definitely cut, but when I rewatched it carefully, I couldn't tell. The grimace could have just been his reaction to being attacked in general. There was no blood shown, and no evidence of a tear in his jacket throughout the episode. Also, the blood would have had to mingle with the girl's blood, right? She was bleeding out her mouth, but I didn't see any of her blood on the kinfe. :confused: But as it was so unclear, an argument could be made either way, and I won't be crying 'foul' if they bring up his immunity later.

-The journal at Bobby's. Was that John's journal? Or does Bobby have an identical one? A style which was also very reminiscent of Daniel Elkin's journal....must be the Official Hunter's Journal. ;) Cool little hiding place Bobby has. I always like when Sam, Dean, and Bobby show how close they are by knowing all of each other's haunts and habits. :)

-Too funny. Right before Dean said, "Oh, Baby!" when he saw the Impala I said in the exact same voice, "Oh, Baby!"

-Chuck. Love him more every time I see him. My favourite scene with him was his "Uh-oh" as Riesa comes up. How Dean hides behind CHUCK when she starts hitting. How Chuck nods when Dean asks if he DID spend the night with Jane (even Dick-Dean is Dean! ;)). And Chuck throwing a weak "Hi Riesa" at her as she stomps away.

-I didn't like stoned Castiel. I thought here he was over the top for the first time. The only parts I liked were that he knew Dean wasn't from 2014 and how amused he was by the two Deans fighting. The good thing about my not liking him, was that I appreciated the 'real' Castiel that much more when we return to 2009. The return of his stillness and naivete at the end are comforting.

-The scenes with Lucifer/Sam. Yeah, I don't think Jared did a bad job per se, he delivered some great lines. But there were times when it also felt a bit uneven for me. Unlike MP's portrayal, Jared's came off a little more on the whiny side than the sympathetic side. That said, it was still a powerful scene and made you think about how much Dean really can change if he is so stubborn about certain things (being a vessel, harming Sam).

-Dean humanising(demonising?) Lucifer's celebrity status by telling him he is the same thing he has always hunted, just with a bigger ego. That was pretty :cool:

-Back in '09, Dean learning the 'right' lesson; that they still need to determine their own fate, but he DOES need Sam.

-Zach was very interesting in this one. For the first time since It's A Terrible Life, he actually came off as reasonable...until Dean said 'no'. But you can understand why he is so determined, and hence so frustrated with Dean's stubbornness. Of course, the degree of truth in what he showed Dean is anyone's guess, but I personally don't believe it was all an elaborate trick.

-Once again, the final tag with Sam and Dean. Always the best scenes! 1) They're together again. Big 'yeah' for that one. 2) Dean's peace offering of the knife. 3) Dean's humble apology. 4) Dean saying they keep each other human, because after seeing 2014 Dean, we are reminded that Sam keeps Dean human as much as Dean keeps Sam human. 5) Sam's sigh of relief when he says his thank you is so poignant. It was like he was petrified of what Dean would say when they met, but then Dean said exactly what Sam needed to hear and he could finally breathe again.

Which brings me to quotes. This was a great quote episode for me:

Castiel: This isn't funny, Dean. The voice says I'm almost out of minutes.

Castiel: I'll just....wait here. (By the side of a nondescript road)

Dean: Why would the demons keep a gun around that kills demons? (Great question, even if they didn't answer it, because the viewer is going to ask the same thing!)

Dean: I guess I'm a little numb to the earth-shattering revelations at this point.

Dean: We're not stronger together, Sam. I think we're weaker. Because whatever we have between us; love, family, whatever it is? They'll always use it against us and you know that. (I don't believe it, but still...awww)

Dean-09 about Dean 2014: Dick.

Dean-2014: Are you okay?
Dean-09: Oh, we were in Jane's cabin last night, and apparently we and...Riesa? have a connection.
Dean-2014: You wanna shut up?

Dean-09: Oh, so we're torturing again. Oh, that's good. Classy.
Castiel (off Dean-2014's look): What? I like Past You.

Dean-2009: Hey...Me! Can I talk to you a second?

Lucifer: Kill you? Wouldn't that be a little...redundant?

Dean: I won't stop.
Lucifer: I know you won't. And I know you won't say yes to Michael, either. And I know you won't kill Sam. Whatever you do, you will always end up here. The choices you makes, whatever details you alter, we will always wind up...here. I win. So...I win.

Dean: Well, if it isn't the Ghost of Christmas Screwed You.

Dean: I just know we're all we got. More than that, we keep each other human.
Sam: Thank you. Really. Thank you. :)

Finally, knowing I am a DeanGirl, you had to know this was coming! I need to talk about Jensen's performance here. Absolutely stellar. In all honesty, I think it was his performance which elevated this episode as a whole for me. He has talked before about how difficult it was to play both sides of the scene in DALDOM. And everyone talks about how hard both he and Jared work because there is only the two of them to really carry the show. But here, it was almost solely Jensen! At least in In the Beginning, Dean had scenes with Mary, John, Samuel, and Deanna. And there were a couple scenes that didn't even have Dean. But here? There were FOUR major expostion scenes with ONLY Jensen playing off of himself! And he did it beautifully. Any time an actor has one of these scenes, it is a true testament to their work when you can watch the scene and honestly, truthfully, 100% completely forget that it's the SAME ACTOR doing both sides! That he is playing it off of some crew guy reading the sides for him. Throughout this epsiode, that is what happened to me. And he was so fantastic about making each Dean a separate person. Yet you believed absolutely that 2014-Dean was a reasonable derivation of the Dean we know now.

You also have to give props to the technical brilliance of the episode in this regard (Who directed this one, btw? I forgot to look). Twinning shots have gotten much better in the last decade, but they really upped the ante for this. They did scenes in full sunlight, in shades of dark, with the Deans crossing each other, everything. And the dialogue! Kudos to both Jensen and the editor because the timing of the dialogue and the reactions to what they were saying to each other? Wow. They had dialogue that almost overlapped. They had times when one Dean would say something, and the other would have either an immediate reaction or the perfect pregnant pause. To get that timing right when you are shooting the two sides separately must have been excruciating!

Episode itself? I give it an 8.5, maybe even a 9. The acting and technical accomplishments? I gotta crank that baby up to 11! :)

P-90_177
October 3rd, 2009, 01:50 AM
another great episode. Gotta love Hippie Cas.........and even 2009 Cas for that matter. Seeing him clearly getting frustrated with the fact that he has a cell phone is just funny and I reckon the moment he pulls Dean away from zach ended up being just as touching as the brothers reunification.
Interesting that they're chasing the colt again. But it makes sense. They've always said that the knife can kill demons, whereas the colt is said to be able to kill anything. It'll be cool to see how that turns out.

LizzieAnne
October 3rd, 2009, 02:49 AM
I thought this ep was fantastic. Really excellent. So much happened in it, so just a few thoughts:

We don’t know whether Zach was manipulating it or not but it seems that Dean came to the conclusion that that version of the future was a very real possibility and it really rammed it home to him with the meeting of Lucifer, so for him I don’t think it really matters.

Loved that Sam calling Dean about him being Lucifer’s vessel…..but although I'd guessed what Dean reaction would be, it still sounded awful hearing Dean say the words.

Love the first conversation between the two Deans. Of course the proof had to be a girls underwear!!! ;)

Cas using his phone…. :D

How far can an angel fall from grace? Not sure Cas would go down that route to be honest but it was fun watching him. I much prefer the uptight Cas to the ‘groovy’ one though.


Totally loved Lucifer!Sam. …understated evil, calmly and beautifully played by Jared. (He even sounded like the present day Lucifer). And all the time we were being fed little snippets of Lucifer’s character and his possible motivations. At this point we can only guess what they are going to be but I’m still getting the feeling though that although Lucifer is one crafty devil! he may not be the one that Dean and Sam will be fight in the end….. or maybe he will! And I loved the sexy immaculate white suit. :P


The interaction between Dean and Sam were so well done. Jensen’s portrayal of Dean’s realisation that they had both failed…it was The End for them. It was really evil for Lucifer to rub it in as well. I guess that was the moment Dean decided he would try and change their future. Loved how he reacts to Zach turning up and then telling him ‘no’ at the end as well.


As for why would Sam say Yes to Lucifer? If Lucifer sticks to the MO of how he acquired his present day vessel, he would find a way to reduce Sam to a depressed heap. If Sam’s only family and friend he had at that point was Bobby, then perhaps Lucifer arranged for him to die (it looked as if he had died in the ep) and then take advantage of the depressed and despairing Sam. :S

I loved how they did the very last scene with Dean waiting for Sam’s car to draw up. We’ve seen similar ones so many times but this time it had that extra emotion attached. When Dean pulled out the knife, Sam looked as if he flinched a bit, a bit unsure for a moment. As there was no usual hug, I guess they still have a way to go to get back to some kind of normal.

Madwelshboy
October 3rd, 2009, 06:47 AM
Really liked the episode for the most part. Some good call back to past storylines. Cas should be on a poster; "From 0 to Orgy in 5 short years". My main issue with the episode was, that i didnt like Sam as Lucifer. Its not like i dont like the idea that Sam is Lucifers vessel, its just came across more like strange Sam rather than Lucifer in Sam's body.

starg8fans
October 3rd, 2009, 07:52 AM
My take on The End. Sorry if I reiterate what's been said already, but I don't have the time to multi-quote ATM.

Was very glad to see Sam come clear about being Lucifer's vessel, and I can only hope that Dean will come clear as well about the 'long story' that made him change his mind.

Although it still seems strange to me how Dean pushes Sam away, at least it's consistent. From telling him he couldn't trust him anymore, to suggesting to go their separate ways, to admitting that he feels less burdened without Sam around, to finally turning Sam down when he wants to come back. All this made a very good case for how wide the chasm between the brother was - and then the writers hit us with this whopper of an ep to explain why they would have to get together again. Pure brilliance.

The fact the it was a Jehova's witness who found Dean for Zach was a nice touch. I had expected them to somehow trace the mobile phone calls between Cas and Dean.

I can't even begin to express my admiration for the incredible performance Jensen delivered in this episode. Apart from the massive amount of dialogue he had, he did an outstanding job of portraying the two Deans in a way that left no room for confusion who was who - and without any help from an altered appearance. (I assume it would have be too time consuming to have makeup come in and change his looks every time he switched sides...) As Crichiel said, at times you forgot it was one actor who did both sides. Amazing. And he still gets second billing - but then, the world is not fair.

Both Chuck and Cas did a great job at providing some comic relief for this very dark episode. Chuck's plea for Dean to hoard toilet paper had me LOL (I wonder if there will be a reference to this later in the season - like Dean opening up the trunk, and having to move several dozen toilet paper rolls to get to the weapons compartment?) and it was very entertaining to see a totally different Cas. But what we saw on this ep was quite enough for me, and I'm glad he's back to his usual detached self now.

I also had a hard time seeing Lucifer rather than simply not!Sam, but people who have seen Mark Pellegrino in Lost assure me that Jared had his mannerisms down pat. So I guess I'll need to re-watch this once I know MP's performance a little better.

As for why Sam said 'yes' to Lucifer, I have a theory of my own. Lucifer's MO is to elicit 'sympathy for the devil', as Dean called it. The story of the loving son who is wrongly punished by a father who doesn't understand him is definitely something that Sam can relate to - especially if he also felt abandoned ed by Dean. I think Dean realized this as Lucifer was spinning his spiel to him, which is why he reacted so forcefully and called his bluff. Which I heartily endorse. I think making the devil seem genial is a nice idea to confuse the issue of who are the good and who are the bad guys, but as far as I'm concerned this sympathetic Lucifer just makes my skin crawl. Snake in the grass type stuff. So yay for Dean not falling for it.

And of course, we've finally identified the big issue of this season. Can or can't you change your destiny? Personally, I believe that this whole future scenario was not just a trick by Zachariah, but that it is one of many possible outcomes. Which one the boys of the timeline we're following will experience remains to be seen - in what I expect to be another 18 glorious episodes.

LoneStar1836
October 3rd, 2009, 10:52 AM
Here are the story points I enjoyed:
-Bringing back the Colt into the storyline. I know it is an iffy prop for the writers because it can be that 'too powerful' deus ex machina. But I always had a soft spot for that weapon. Query (and I know it's been asked before here): Could the Colt really kill Lucifer since Ruby's demon-killing knife has no effect on angels? :confused:Lore behind the Colt is that it can kill anything. Until they shoot an angel we won't know if it works against them or not. I fear that Castiel might end up meeting his fate this way. :( I don't see Cas making it past this season...not even to just return to Heaven when all is said and done.

Demon knife is for well...demons.


Dean: Why would the demons keep a gun around that kills demons? (Great question, even if they didn't answer it, because the viewer is going to ask the same thing!)Now that I think about it, they need the Colt to kill Michael...or they think it will do the trick.

The Colt is supposed to be able to kill anything. Angels...and supposedly not demons...are the only thing that can kill another angel. So in theory Lucifer, an angel, should be able to kill Michael, but the other little demon minions can't. Maybe they want the Colt around for insurance or to play dirty...shoot Michael in the back, etc. etc.


-Sam calling Dean. And right away dispelling any fear we all had that he would hide from Dean the fact that he was Lucifer's vessel. And the non-reaction from Dean was perfect, because honestly, how many more times can they be shocked before it becomes commonplace! ;)
I thought this was great. Have it out in the open from the get go.


-I thought the way Zach tracked down Dean was actually amazingly clever. Ditto. Writers did a great job with that detail.


-Bringing back the Croatoan storyline. Although I am not as sure about the 'Dean being infected' thing as some of you are. I thought upon first viewing that Dean was definitely cut, but when I rewatched it carefully, I couldn't tell. The grimace could have just been his reaction to being attacked in general. There was no blood shown, and no evidence of a tear in his jacket throughout the episode. Also, the blood would have had to mingle with the girl's blood, right? She was bleeding out her mouth, but I didn't see any of her blood on the kinfe. :confused: But as it was so unclear, an argument could be made either way, and I won't be crying 'foul' if they bring up his immunity later.Well I'm not positive she got him either, but since this was dealing with the virus story, I would have thought they would have made it clearer whether he got cut or not...have him lift up his shirt or something.

Though maybe it wouldn't matter anyway as Zach would supposedly not let anything happen to '09 Dean anyway. But you still have to wonder how future Dean survived all that time in zombieland without ever getting infected. I know Dean is good, but he's not that good. Thus I lean toward the idea that Dean is naturally immune.



-I didn't like stoned Castiel. I thought here he was over the top for the first time. The only parts I liked were that he knew Dean wasn't from 2014 and how amused he was by the two Deans fighting. The good thing about my not liking him, was that I appreciated the 'real' Castiel that much more when we return to 2009. The return of his stillness and naivete at the end are comforting.Not too sure Dean liked it either.

Meh, wasn't really into stoned Cas either. My first thought was he's become Baltar from BSG with the harem of women. lol.

starg8fans
October 3rd, 2009, 01:13 PM
Well I'm not positive she got him either, but since this was dealing with the virus story, I would have thought they would have made it clearer whether he got cut or not...have him lift up his shirt or something.

Though maybe it wouldn't matter anyway as Zach would supposedly not let anything happen to '09 Dean anyway. But you still have to wonder how future Dean survived all that time in zombieland without ever getting infected. I know Dean is good, but he's not that good. Thus I lean toward the idea that Dean is naturally immune.

I doubt that Dean is immune. As Crichiel said, you need to get blood of an infected person into your own system to become infected, which was not the case whether Dean was stabbed or not. Also, I can imagine 2014Dean being careful enough not to have this happen in 5 years. We're not talking about an airborne virus here. What I'm wondering, though, is whether 2009Dean had some kind of immunity or self-healing power while he was in this different 'time zone'. Not only was that cut never mentioned again - and I'm pretty sure she did get him, given the sounds during the scuffle - but there was also not the slightest mark on his face after 2014Dean decked him. Maybe Zach put some kind of mojo on him to keep Michael's precious vessel safe.

BTW, did you notice that when Dean looked out of the hotel room at the disaster area below the cinema display said 'Now showing - Route 666'? That would mean the Chuck's books made it big some time between 2009 and when the Croatoan virus hit, and at least one of them even got made into a movie. :D

One thing I must admit bugged me just a little was Cas' impeccable timing in pulling Dean out of harms way - again. Does he have premonitions when Dean is in danger? Or was it just coincidence as he claims? But then, Dean said 'tomorrow morning', and it was still dark when they ended up on the nondescript street. And how come that he can't heal Bobby, but he can whisk a body through thin air? But as I said, no major complaints here. With all the brilliant stuff going on I forgive the writers for cutting a corner once in a while.

LoneStar1836
October 3rd, 2009, 03:07 PM
I doubt that Dean is immune. As Crichiel said, you need to get blood of an infected person into your own system to become infected, which was not the case whether Dean was stabbed or not. Also, I can imagine 2014Dean being careful enough not to have this happen in 5 years. We're not talking about an airborne virus here. What I'm wondering, though, is whether 2009Dean had some kind of immunity or self-healing power while he was in this different 'time zone'. Not only was that cut never mentioned again - and I'm pretty sure she did get him, given the sounds during the scuffle - but there was also not the slightest mark on his face after 2014Dean decked him. Maybe Zach put some kind of mojo on him to keep Michael's precious vessel safe.I think it's a blood line thing. There have been enough hints on the show to suggest that, imo. I know they suggested heavily in the past that the stuff with Sam was due to YED dripping blood in his mouth as a baby, but as time went on, they have branched out a bit more suggesting that there were reasons Mary was chosen. Like with Jimmy and his daughter.

I know it's not airborne, but the way they talked was that areas were inundated with Croats. If they are going to physically get out there to gather supplies, reconnaissance, etc., they are going to eventually get into situations where they bite off more than they can chew and somebody is going to get hurt and blood exchanged (as that seems to be a goal of the zombies...infect others...and not just eat them for their brains :D...so it stands to reason there could have been blood on the knife already). Just don't see how future Dean could have avoided contamination all that time. Not saying it's not impossible, but it does make me wonder.

If nothing comes of it, I won't really care because it doesn't seem to be very important in the current story line anyway. Though if infecting people is part of the demon/Lucifer endgame, then those immune to it are very important in the future. We'll have to wait and see if it pops up again. But it's still fun to speculate. :D




BTW, did you notice that when Dean looked out of the hotel room at the disaster area below the cinema display said 'Now showing - Route 666'? That would mean the Chuck's books made it big some time between 2009 and when the Croatoan virus hit, and at least one of them even got made into a movie. :D lol. No, I didn't notice that. Good catch. :D

Heh. Things had gotten bad enough that even one of the worst, imo, episode of Supernatural was being shown as a movie as a little inside joke...rather than maybe the obvious thing of 666 being the sign of the devil.

iolanda
October 3rd, 2009, 03:21 PM
And how come that he can't heal Bobby, but he can whisk a body through thin air?

The whole healing thing is puzzling me. I recently saw "on the head of a pin" again, and Dean was really hurt there, so hurt that he needed to get artificial respiration at first and oxygen later on. And Cas did exactly nothing to heal him. So he was either not able or not allowed to do healing back then.
I wonder if we'll get an explanation for that at some point.

LizzieAnne
October 4th, 2009, 06:41 AM
I did a frame by frame look at the little girl attacking Dean at the beginning..I don't think she got a chance to cut him.

The girl didn't get the shard close enough to him. She attacked him twice. The first time her arm is hidden out of view but with her small arm reach it's unlikely she got to him. The second time you can clearly see Dean manoeuvre himself out of the way. Also there's no blood on the weapon in the cap after Dean knocked her out and no damage that we can see to his clothing. It's not impossible she pierced him slightly but he does have three layers of clothing on his top half... so I'm guessing I know, but I think not.

Maybe that look of concern he had afterwards was a bit of panic..him checking just in case.


http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab183/athena-4400/supernatural/Season%205/The%20End/vlcsnap-178733.jpg
http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab183/athena-4400/supernatural/Season%205/The%20End/vlcsnap-178774.jpg
http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab183/athena-4400/supernatural/Season%205/The%20End/vlcsnap-179366.jpg
http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab183/athena-4400/supernatural/Season%205/The%20End/vlcsnap-182071.jpg

Colonel Rebel
October 4th, 2009, 08:36 AM
I loved this episode. I thought it was the best one this season so far. It was funny seeing Cass as a love guru lol

the fifth man
October 4th, 2009, 07:26 PM
This episode kind of blew me away. Really great stuff.

starg8fans
October 5th, 2009, 12:20 AM
I think it's a blood line thing. There have been enough hints on the show to suggest that, imo. I know they suggested heavily in the past that the stuff with Sam was due to YED dripping blood in his mouth as a baby, but as time went on, they have branched out a bit more suggesting that there were reasons Mary was chosen. Like with Jimmy and his daughter.

You're thinking something like the Ancient gene? It's definitely a possibility.


I know it's not airborne, but the way they talked was that areas were inundated with Croats. If they are going to physically get out there to gather supplies, reconnaissance, etc., they are going to eventually get into situations where they bite off more than they can chew and somebody is going to get hurt and blood exchanged (as that seems to be a goal of the zombies...infect others...and not just eat them for their brains :D...so it stands to reason there could have been blood on the knife already). Just don't see how future Dean could have avoided contamination all that time. Not saying it's not impossible, but it does make me wonder.

If nothing comes of it, I won't really care because it doesn't seem to be very important in the current story line anyway. Though if infecting people is part of the demon/Lucifer endgame, then those immune to it are very important in the future. We'll have to wait and see if it pops up again. But it's still fun to speculate. :D

Dean was trained as hunter and knows how to take care of himself. There are lots of other people who are not infected yet - I mean, they're still publishing newspapers - so why not him? And talking about speculation, did you think the soldiers blowing the Croats away were also infected, or were they just following orders?


lol. No, I didn't notice that. Good catch. :D

Heh. Things had gotten bad enough that even one of the worst, imo, episode of Supernatural was being shown as a movie as a little inside joke...rather than maybe the obvious thing of 666 being the sign of the devil.

I think the 666 played a bit part in it. That and the fact that there was some romantic (and erotic) interest for Dean in that episode, which would have to be a part of any movie that was made about the boys.


The whole healing thing is puzzling me. I recently saw "on the head of a pin" again, and Dean was really hurt there, so hurt that he needed to get artificial respiration at first and oxygen later on. And Cas did exactly nothing to heal him. So he was either not able or not allowed to do healing back then.
I wonder if we'll get an explanation for that at some point.

For now I'm going with the notion that they didn't want Cas to get even closer to Dean. So when he said "I can't" it meant he was under orders not to interfere.


I did a frame by frame look at the little girl attacking Dean at the beginning..I don't think she got a chance to cut him.

The girl didn't get the shard close enough to him. She attacked him twice. The first time her arm is hidden out of view but with her small arm reach it's unlikely she got to him. The second time you can clearly see Dean manoeuvre himself out of the way. Also there's no blood on the weapon in the cap after Dean knocked her out and no damage that we can see to his clothing. It's not impossible she pierced him slightly but he does have three layers of clothing on his top half... so I'm guessing I know, but I think not.

Maybe that look of concern he had afterwards was a bit of panic..him checking just in case.

It wasn't so much what you could see but the sound of the blade ripping through something. But you're right, it was probably just the clothes - although there was no tear to be seen in them either. It's probably like the scene in The Benders where another girl nails Dean to the wall with yet another blade, but again only caught his shirt and jacket.

LoneStar1836
October 5th, 2009, 03:19 PM
Dean was trained as hunter and knows how to take care of himself. There are lots of other people who are not infected yet - I mean, they're still publishing newspapers - so why not him? And talking about speculation, did you think the soldiers blowing the Croats away were also infected, or were they just following orders?They definitely weren't, imo. It was a quarantine area as it was fenced off...though I don't think it was being actively enforced anymore. I think Dean lucked out that a military patrol happened by, and considering the area, they probably have orders to shoot anything that moves in areas like that which is why they were shooting at Dean as well.

And about the newspaper. I saw a screen cap of it on another site and it was published by the "Washington Herald". Looked it up and there is no such paper in existence but wiki notes it did exist a long time ago but eventually became the Washington Post. Makes sense that Washington D.C. would be a Croat free zone and still publish a paper.

Crichiel
October 5th, 2009, 06:43 PM
One thing I must admit bugged me just a little was Cas' impeccable timing in pulling Dean out of harms way - again. Does he have premonitions when Dean is in danger? Or was it just coincidence as he claims? But then, Dean said 'tomorrow morning', and it was still dark when they ended up on the nondescript street. And how come that he can't heal Bobby, but he can whisk a body through thin air? But as I said, no major complaints here. With all the brilliant stuff going on I forgive the writers for cutting a corner once in a while.

This one niggled at me because, from the way the conversation went, Cas was supposed to meet Dean at the motel, NOT bring Dean to him in four hours. And why did he give Dean that little smile when Dean said nice timing, and respond by asking how Zachariah found him?

The way I reconciled it in my own mind (because it isn't really important to the overall story), is that I figured Castiel popped in the motel for a nanosecond to meet Dean, sussed out the situation and got Dean and himself out of there.

starg8fans
October 5th, 2009, 07:38 PM
They definitely weren't, imo. It was a quarantine area as it was fenced off...though I don't think it was being actively enforced anymore. I think Dean lucked out that a military patrol happened by, and considering the area, they probably have orders to shoot anything that moves in areas like that which is why they were shooting at Dean as well.

That's my assumption as well. I think it was a nice touch to show in how many ways the virus works. Not only is it turning those infected into homicidal zombies, but the fact that this is so 'scary as hell' (Dean's words) makes unaffected people such as the soldiers act like killer machines when faced with it. So carnage all around - real Apocalypse stuff.


And about the newspaper. I saw a screen cap of it on another site and it was published by the "Washington Herald". Looked it up and there is no such paper in existence but wiki notes it did exist a long time ago but eventually became the Washington Post. Makes sense that Washington D.C. would be a Croat free zone and still publish a paper.

Nice piece of research there, thanks!


This one niggled at me because, from the way the conversation went, Cas was supposed to meet Dean at the motel, NOT bring Dean to him in four hours. And why did he give Dean that little smile when Dean said nice timing, and respond by asking how Zachariah found him?

The way I reconciled it in my own mind (because it isn't really important to the overall story), is that I figured Castiel popped in the motel for a nanosecond to meet Dean, sussed out the situation and got Dean and himself out of there.

That bit puzzles me at first too - the timing was just too perfect - but I came to the same conclusion as you. I also noticed that when Zachariah turns around you can hear the rustling of wings that usually marks the disappearance of an angel. So Cas must have popped in, seen his former 'boss' and pulled Dean out. Good thing he hasn't lost all of his mojo yet.

I also prefer this explanation to Cas being omniscient about what's happening to Dean. It would be too easy and would get boring very quickly if the angel showed up every time the situation got sticky. Especially now that he's no longer 'under orders' from above that were used before to explain why Cas did not interfere when it was necessary.

Epideme
October 25th, 2009, 12:31 PM
I have to say that I was not at all impressed with Jared's performance as Satan in this. I don't know...it was a bit of a letdown for me. I was expecting more from him. Also, I'd like the think Sam was had a stronger character than just accepting Satan into his meatsuit, for any reason, but I can't really tell if Zachariah created that vision of the future to mess with Dean's head or if that was what could really come to pass should the brothers not reconnect. Either way, shame on you Sammy.

Jensen, however, was quite fabulous, as was Mischa. Pill popping, orgy arranging Castiel was the highlight of the episode for me.

It took me a few minutes to recognize Lexa Doig. I'm not a fan of her work but it was nice to see another SG actor on the TV.

The angels leaving earth makes me thing that they don't really want this fight so I'm wondering what their motivation is now. Why let Satan out if you not really interested in fighting him? I really do get the feeling that Michael/the angels are going to be the bad guys in the end.

I was very, very happy to see the Sam and Dean come together in the end. Dean giving Sam Ruby's knife was a pretty big "I'm trusting you, don't let me down" moment and I hope Sam can live up to it.
I have to agree with you Ashizuri, it was a letdown with Sam having accepted Lucifer but it is just a possibility. I hope things don't go that way because it would just kill me, all Dean's effort, all Bobby's effort. I hope Sam can live up to Dean's expectations even though past experience says otherwise.

I also hope that the Angels are just messing with Dean's head and that once they reconnect, something will have changed. I want to see Sam survive and not be Lucifer's vessel, and for Dean to lead a group of survivors against the real Lucifer, and save the world. Castiel was awesome as the guru type and it sends me back to 503 Free To Be You And Me, with Dean and Castiel in a "Den of Iniquity". Quality writing.

Again, I agree with the Angels being the bad guys in the end, but I think they always intended to let Lucifer out once Dean snapped in Hell. That to me was their trigger point, launching the whole 'End Of The World' ploy and giving them something to do while we all puzzle over what happened to God.

Epideme

Crichiel
December 11th, 2009, 05:23 AM
CW re-ran this one again last night. Still unimportant to the overall story, but I am wondering how Castiel relocated Dean at the end without touching him. They can be a little inconsistent about that, I can't quite figure out the writers' rules on this.

In On the Head of a Pin, Castiel and Uriel took Dean away without touching, but is there any other time they did so? Castiel was reaching to touch Dean in Free To Be You and Me, and same thing in Changing Channels during the Japanese game show. If the angel doesn't have to touch you, why make the effort to do so?

Just a curiosity. Enough to make me think, but not enough to annoy me! ;)

Switch42
December 11th, 2009, 03:17 PM
CW re-ran this one again last night. Still unimportant to the overall story, but I am wondering how Castiel relocated Dean at the end without touching him. They can be a little inconsistent about that, I can't quite figure out the writers' rules on this.

In On the Head of a Pin, Castiel and Uriel took Dean away without touching, but is there any other time they did so? Castiel was reaching to touch Dean in Free To Be You and Me, and same thing in Changing Channels during the Japanese game show. If the angel doesn't have to touch you, why make the effort to do so?

Just a curiosity. Enough to make me think, but not enough to annoy me! ;)

They may just not have shown it? Since it was supposed to be a quick kind of thing to surprise Zachariah. So, he may have swooped in, seen what was going on, touched Dean and got them out?

starg8fans
December 12th, 2009, 03:45 AM
CW re-ran this one again last night. Still unimportant to the overall story, but I am wondering how Castiel relocated Dean at the end without touching him. They can be a little inconsistent about that, I can't quite figure out the writers' rules on this.

<snipped for length>

Just a curiosity. Enough to make me think, but not enough to annoy me! ;)


They may just not have shown it? Since it was supposed to be a quick kind of thing to surprise Zachariah. So, he may have swooped in, seen what was going on, touched Dean and got them out?

/\ What Switch said, that was my understanding as well. Here's what they said on the phone at the beginning of the ep:

Cas: "I’ll be there immediately.”
Dean: “Whoa whoa whoa, no no no. Come on man, I just drove like sixteen hours straight. Okay? I’m human. And there’s stuff I gotta do.”
Cas: “What stuff?”
Dean: “Eat, for example. In this case sleep. I just need like four hours once in a while, okay?”
Cas: “Yes.”
Dean: “Okay, so you can pop in tomorrow morning.”
Cas: “Yes.”

So Cas was supposed to come to the motel, and as Switch said, while the camera was on Zach he must have swooped in (there was that fluttering sound), realized the situation in a split second, touched Dean and took him away with him.

Crichiel
December 14th, 2009, 12:11 PM
/\ What Switch said, that was my understanding as well. Here's what they said on the phone at the beginning of the ep:

Cas: "I’ll be there immediately.”
Dean: “Whoa whoa whoa, no no no. Come on man, I just drove like sixteen hours straight. Okay? I’m human. And there’s stuff I gotta do.”
Cas: “What stuff?”
Dean: “Eat, for example. In this case sleep. I just need like four hours once in a while, okay?”
Cas: “Yes.”
Dean: “Okay, so you can pop in tomorrow morning.”
Cas: “Yes.”

So Cas was supposed to come to the motel, and as Switch said, while the camera was on Zach he must have swooped in (there was that fluttering sound), realized the situation in a split second, touched Dean and took him away with him.

No no no no. You misunderstand me. :o I GET that he was SUPPOSED to pop in to meet Dean anyway! Someone else asked about the convenience of Castiel showing up in the nick of time when the ep originally aired. And I was one of the ones that brought up this same exchange between Dean and Cas at the beginning, saying that I didn't think Cas popping in was too convenient, because it was what he and Dean had agreed to. ;) What I don't see is where Cas could have come in and touched Dean without Zachariah seeing him, because Zach was staring Dean down at the time. And my question was: do the angels have to physically touch someone to relocate them or no? If not, then Cas could have been standing behind Zach when he popped in. And that's why Zachariah whirled around that direction when Dean disappeared, to see if someone was there. But if they don't have to touch someone, then why in the other episodes, does it seem like it's required? And if they DO, then I'll just have to go back and watch the episode AGAIN and see if there is a second there where Zachariah turns away from Dean (how horrible, I'll HAVE to watch the episode again! ;)). Maybe he does turn away long enough for Castiel to show up next to Dean, see Zach, and reach out to touch Dean. If so, then forget everything I just said! :o:D

Still, not a big deal. I think it just popped into my head because I had just watched OTHOAP. There, we really don't see Uriel or Castiel touching Dean to move him. So I was curious if it was one of those 'cheats' that the writers use (sometimes touch, sometimes not) to make the story more dramatic. As incredible as Supernatural is about trying to make things consistent, even Eric and Sera have admitted that sometimes they will do things for story purposes that wouldn't track if you really thought about them, or compared them to other episodes.

flameling
April 1st, 2010, 07:28 AM
Well because haven't seen anyone bring u this theory, may as well. What if the angels didn't leave but all died? We know from a later episode that Lucifer is trying to find the Anti christs and that they can nuke heaven. So is it really a stretch that he simply had them nuke heaven? In spoilers as they pertain to a later episode.