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GateWorld
September 18th, 2009, 03:12 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s2/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/2021.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">SANCTUARY SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s2/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">END OF NIGHTS, PART 2</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 202</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
The Cabal attacks sanctuaries across the world with Ashley transformed to support their cause. Tesla (Jonathon Young) and Henry try to devise a means to stop the onslaught without killing Ashley in the process. <I>(TV Guide)</I>

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s2/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Amalthea
October 16th, 2009, 07:08 PM
That was insane! Great fight sequences and amazing emotion. My heart was breaking for Helen. Truly, her choice was gut wrenching. Poor Invisible Girl.

The end, though. All I have to say is "WHA?!"

Great episode, can't wait until next week!

MissCheerfully
October 16th, 2009, 07:08 PM
This episode leave me breathless, what Helen said to Ashley was so sad. I really enjoyed it.

Pandora's_Box
October 16th, 2009, 07:14 PM
WHAAAAAAA??

How can it end like that? Is she dead? Did she kill herself on purpose?

CKO
October 16th, 2009, 07:20 PM
okay... yea i was kinda balling in parts.. well donw... poor Will.. Poor magus... hell i wanna just hug em both... wonderful acting by AT in the ep the anguish and the pain that she portrayed... erm... can i blink yet.?!

s72450
October 16th, 2009, 07:29 PM
Okay did SyFy use all it's CGI budget on SGU because normally this show has great CGI and tonight it was painfully obvious that they were on green screen, like it wasn't even trying to blend them in. It really took me out of the story to be honest. This looked like CGI/Actor blending from ten years ago.

Anyone else notice how bad it was?

Mandysg1
October 16th, 2009, 07:30 PM
Well last weeks episode was very good....this one hit it out of the park! Great action, suspense and emotions. I really enjoyed John's part of how he feels about Ashley inheriting those bad traits from him. Then Helen trying to come up with a solution that wouldn't kill Ash, and coming to the realization that she was wrong. Also her talk with Will that it had to be her that used the weapon. If that wasn't enough, the talk with Ashley at the end, when finally she saw her daughter come back, and saving her life by ending her own (if she's really dead). Very dramatically played by Amanda and Emilie. I have to say everyone did an awesome job. Brava/Bravo to all :)

meredithchandler73
October 16th, 2009, 07:33 PM
Honestly, I don't pay all that much attention to CGI so no, I didn't notice anything bad about it. That's not what interests me most about Sanctuary. I started watching Sanctuary because I'm a huge Amanda Tapping fan. I've continued to watch because I find the characters and stories interesting.

I'm loving season 2 so far. Last week's and this week's episodes both had me on the edge of my seat the whole time.

Can't wait to see what comes next!

One thing - I'm really not a big fan of Kate. My apologies to the actress playing her. It's not the actor's fault. I'm just not enjoying her character at all.

SamJackShipper93
October 16th, 2009, 07:46 PM
Oh. My. Gosh.

Oh, how I hate it when some of the best characters get killed off. :( And this was a double whammy too. Ashley and Clara.

The acting was incredible. The last scene with Amanda and Emilie just about broke my heart. :( At least Ashley was still there, somewhat. I'm hoping for a whole lot of answers next week.

I loved Druitt's bit about Ashley inheriting his traits, and I loved Helen's talk with Bigfoot. It's nice to see him back. I loved the part when he started slapping Will around after his recovery.

I'm still not warming to Kate. Her character just . . . doesn't seem to fit. I'm not really looking forward to watching her all season long. :mckay:

The one thing that I'm really confussed about is Kate's bit at the end. ("Hey, Blondie!") I thought that she had killed Ashley right then and there with the weapon. It looked like it completely disintergrated her. But right afterwards, Ashley was right there, trying to protect Helen. So what exactly did Kate do to her? :confused:

That is all. This episode has left me really depressed. :( But I can't wait for more! :D

Edit: Oh! And poor Damian the Nubbin! :P

kthomassg
October 16th, 2009, 07:53 PM
I've been trying to bury my head in the sand and stay away from spoilers, but those rumors have dug their way down to me and I've fought back the black clouds. I hope and pray that Ashley isn't gone. I was screaming at the TV, "NO!!!!". Of course right before that I was screaming "YES!!!" as Ashley saved Helen. What great acting all the way around.

antoa
October 16th, 2009, 07:53 PM
Damian had told us during our set visit that in the original script, Tesla's weapon was supposed to blow up the nubbin, but he was told that he couldn't blow up nubbins. He was disappointed.

As for the episode itself, I still haven't processed it all.

Loved the scene with Helen and John and the scene with Helen and Biggie. Amanda pretty much knocked this entire ep way out of the park.

And I am sure Ashley is just SciFi dead. Though Cara looked dead dead.

The jury is still out on Kate Freelander.

Did anyone notice the black tape on Helen's shirt when she had the leather vest off? Maybe I only noticed it because she was wearing it at lunch and there was a small white logo on it, which they covered up with the tape.

suse
October 16th, 2009, 07:55 PM
Loved the ep! So busy!

I thought the FX were great. Yeah, the big abnormal was a bit obviously CGI, but really, considering so much is green screen, that was a small quibble.

Not sad Clara is gone. Felt bad for Will though.

John and Helen together... wow. :lol: And he was being the reasonable one!

Amanda Tapping blew it away, as did Emilie Ullerup.

I'm still a bit confused as to how the Cabal got video of the inside. They found the bugs that Gregory placed and AFAIK he was only at the main Sanctuary.

:D Rewatching. Though the DVR is crap, stuttering. :S

suse

Mack_1
October 16th, 2009, 07:57 PM
Ok this chapter had me crying at the end.

AT was awesome now I can see she can deal with humor, drama and deep emotions, never seen her like that before.

I’m loving this season so much, the first episode was very good this episode was fantastic.

Really like the way they used the split scenes

Will not leaving after invisible girl was killed, supporting Magnus was felt real

Ashley, protecting mom and sacrificing herself minutes after she had tried to kill her very good and very sad.

The battle scenes were realistic and painful to watched , especially Ahs and Druit

Tesla was himself and I got to like him better this time around.

Magnus! You are my new reason to return to sci-fi, my Fridays are save thanks to Amanda (I love you) that last two scenes with Ashley and Magnus were super good, I couldn’t help but to feel bad for Helen, when she relates to their time when Ashley was younger was very touching, and Ashley reacted to her.

New girl, last episode was kind of annoying and whiny today she was the same but them redeem herself when she stayed and save Magnus when Ashley lost control so Kate you have a + point

And Big Foot is BACK!!! That scene in the elevator was sweet

I can wait for next the episode…hoping they keep the standards they set up till now any how I know I’ll watch just because of AT.

kthomassg
October 16th, 2009, 08:04 PM
After Magnus left Druitt and walked into the elveator I thought we were going to see her lose it like Carter did in "Singularity".

tsaxlady
October 16th, 2009, 08:18 PM
I agree the CGI was really bad at times and did take away from the overall enjoyment of what was otherwise a really good episode. I enjoyed the story but I do wish they had the money and time to put more into the CGI/Visual effects and music for a better overall higher production quality.

SamJackShipper93
October 16th, 2009, 08:27 PM
After Magnus left Druitt and walked into the elveator I thought we were going to see her lose it like Carter did in "Singularity".

I was expecting this as well. :(

Replicator Todd
October 16th, 2009, 08:34 PM
This was pretty crazy. But good. Its only my second episode though, I was a little lost, tee hee!

shel
October 16th, 2009, 08:48 PM
Wow that was Amazing!!! I loved this episode.

Didn't really feel bad when invisible girl got killed, but did feel bad for Will.

The fight between John and Ash was good, especially when he got her with his sword on her side at the end of the fight and and she cried out in pain. :eek:

And when they released the elemental and Ashley was getting burned alive, that was... whoa:eek:

But when Helen was trying to get through to Ash and started talking about when she was younger, omg that was so sad. I felt so bad for Helen. Then at the last moment when she stopped the other girl from killing Helen and seemed to have recognition. But when she teleported out and Helen started crying... I'm pretty sure I was ready to cry! :(

I really hope that Ashley isn't dead... and some how comes back later. Now I really can't wait for next week's episode to see what happens.

Amalthea
October 16th, 2009, 09:05 PM
I think Kate definitely blew Ashley up, but then Ashley regenerated herself from the explosion. So that of course begs the question why that couldn't be done with the shield too. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that if you die while using your powers, or at least John's teleporting power, you stay dead.

lordofseas
October 16th, 2009, 09:18 PM
A couple of points, from my POV.

1. I thought this episode was amazing.

2. I'm concerned that there are no longer going to be invisible people. :( I liked Clara.

3. If they bring Ashley back by some clone or some such, I will go to wherever they film this and push the idiots who thought of that from the highest room of the highest tower of the highest....something....

4. CGI effects don't really get in my way of the show, unless they are blatantly in my face. And the ones that were that blatant, I thought were....realistic.

5. Again, this entire cast deserves Golden Globes and Emmys for this. Like...wow. I haven't seen sci-fi this good in a long while.

Rocky89
October 16th, 2009, 09:32 PM
OMG BEST Sanctuary EVER! ;)

This is by far my fave episode of Sanctuary, it had everything, action, fun, character development serious fight scenes and a lot of emotion :). I loved seeing the heads of the other Sanctuaries, and that Medusa girl was wicked ;). I was very surprised to see a Nubbin and even more surprised to to hear it's name was Damian :D.

I pretty much loved all the scenes at the London Sanctuary, I think they had some really good character development between all the characters, and the fight with John and Ashely and the other two... *what do I call them* super soldiers was so awesome :D. I loved the look on John's face when he impaled Ashley with the sword, that was so good acting by CH. ;)

It was awesome seeing Tesla get his hands dirty in a real fight with Ashely and the other girl, and I actually couldn't take my eyes of the screen when Ashely and the other two were burning up, I was shocked and wowed. :eek:

I was sad to see the invisible girl go, you could see the pain on Will's face, but I'm glad to see Bigfoot back on his feet. One thing I really liked seeing was Helen have a one on one talk with almost each one of her team, you could see how she connects with them in her own way, and what they mean to her, especially the scene with Bigfoot :). I really didn't expect for them to break into the Sanctuary, but I'm glad they did because it led for some wicked action.

But my fave scene of all was the ending when Helen was trying to reach Ashely, you could easily see the fear and emotion on her face, she wanted to save her daughter, but she knew there was only two ways to do it, actually save her, or kill her. Helen knew that as the head of the main Sanctuary, and as a mother, she'd have to do the hard thing, but Helen was so desperate to save Ashley she wouldn't give up, and at the last second she did reach her :). I was hoping for a speech like that where Helen would try an get Ashley to remember, and I smiled when she remembered who Helen was. :) Amanda and Emilie were AWESOME, the pain they ha on their faces was so real, they should get some awards for this episode because their acting was a home run. :)

Anyway, I thought it was a AMAZING episode overall, I thought it was cool to see Kate come to Helen's rescue there, and I can't wait to see what's in store next week. :)

Oh and after seeing this episode, I'm a bigger fan of leather. ;):D

lordofseas
October 16th, 2009, 09:36 PM
Has Emilie been seen on set for any other episodes?

SamJackShipper93
October 16th, 2009, 09:44 PM
Well, you can see Emilie in the promos for next week.

lordofseas
October 16th, 2009, 09:49 PM
Well, you can see Emilie in the promos for next week.

Any links?

EvenstarSRV
October 16th, 2009, 09:50 PM
Great follow up to part 1, and leaving us on yet another cliffhanger! I'll echo others' 'WHAAA???' after that final scene. Can't wait for all the fallout next week. Kudos to AT and EU for that Helen and Ashley showdown, esp Helen admitting she was frightened and Ashley saying so much with just one word when saving her.

Can't say I was ever really attached to Clara, but I feel for Will and that moment was nicely played by RD. This also means that Helen, Druitt, and Tesla are all that remain of the Five.

I liked most of the tactics they used to fight the Cabal soldiers, except the trollish abnormal seemed a bit silly. But the fire elemental and 'Exxon Valdeez' thing were quite cool, as was Druitt with the swords. And it was nice to see Tesla the inventor back in the lab, and good beat with Helen when she basically asks him to make sure the weapon can kill Ashley.

Still not really warming up to Kate, though it's probably in part because she's so removed from the main drama of the story right now, that she can't be expected to gel with the other characters just yet. I'll see how the next couple of episodes go, when things get back to normal, so to speak.

The VFX were a bit wonky at times, I think the central lab seems to be the weakest virtual set, but given the show's tight budget it's something I can easily let slide. I'd much rather have a great story with so-so effects than awesome VFX and a so-so story.

With regards to Ashley's fate, teleporting when the shield was up killed that clone near Bigfoot, Will, and Henry, so it stands to reason it'd do the same to Ashley. Unless, since the clones were made from Ashley's changed DNA/blood, they may be completely destroyed, but since there's some part of the old Ashley still present, that may allow her to survive, in some form.

lordofseas
October 16th, 2009, 09:54 PM
Link. Spoilers for Eulogy.

http://sites.google.com/site/gasboscifiaustralia/sanctuarys2/ep3

the dancer of spaz
October 16th, 2009, 10:05 PM
Okay did SyFy use all it's CGI budget on SGU because normally this show has great CGI and tonight it was painfully obvious that they were on green screen, like it wasn't even trying to blend them in. It really took me out of the story to be honest. This looked like CGI/Actor blending from ten years ago.

Anyone else notice how bad it was?

I noticed the first scene at the London Sanctuary looked a bit sub-par compared to the rest of the episode, but that was the only one that jumped out at me (and did so when SyFy released the sneak peek). I think everything else in the episode looked great, from the black goo and electricity to the various Sanctuaries and the fight scenes. The production values, in my opinion, are really good.



I'm still not warming to Kate. Her character just . . . doesn't seem to fit. I'm not really looking forward to watching her all season long. :mckay:


IA. Great episode. I'm sure Kate will grow on me at some point, but right now, all I can think is that they've "killed off" (using that phrase loosely at the mo) Ashley, and have replaced her with some annoying chick whose skull needs to be smacked by Helen & Co.

majorsal
October 16th, 2009, 10:07 PM
omg... that ending!! :eek:

helen! ashley!! :(

i don't like crying in front of ppl, so it wasn't easy to hold that in... but my mom felt the same way.

that ep was made of awesome!!

SamJackShipper93
October 16th, 2009, 10:10 PM
IA. Great episode. I'm sure Kate will grow on me at some point, but right now, all I can think is that they've "killed off" (using that phrase loosely at the mo) Ashley, and have replaced her with some annoying chick whose skull needs to be smacked by Helen & Co.

Haha, I could not agree more! :P

the dancer of spaz
October 16th, 2009, 10:17 PM
Haha, I could not agree more! :P

Haha, I can't tell you how many times I wished Helen would walk up to Kate and either a) slap her silly or b) knock her out. Perhaps that's coming? :lol:

majorsal
October 16th, 2009, 10:22 PM
i have a lump in my throat... amanda, you did it again!

the entire ep rocked, but that end... i absolutely adore mother/daughter relationships, and that ending...

(my mom just came in the room and again said how wonderful amanda was. *she said when helen looked up at ashley, begging to reach her... *)

so waaah, sad and beautiful, and amanda you're a great actress!!

(everyone did great, with special mention for emilie)

majorsal
October 16th, 2009, 10:30 PM
Haha, I can't tell you how many times I wished Helen would walk up to Kate and either a) slap her silly or b) knock her out. Perhaps that's coming? :lol:

when helen came into the infirmary, and told kate she could leave, but also chewed her out and walked out... i turned to my mom and said, 'now *that's* the way they should have talked to vala!' :p

charles582
October 16th, 2009, 10:48 PM
I know this may sound bad but what did will bring to the battle? I think will needs something special about him. I mean everyone except will has a special power and or a special history. What does will bring? He has no special powers or history?

the dancer of spaz
October 16th, 2009, 10:48 PM
when helen came into the infirmary, and told kate she could leave, but also chewed her out and walked out... i turned to my mom and said, 'now *that's* the way they should have talked to vala!' :p

Bwah! I thought she was gonna straight up knock Kate's meal cart right off the bed. :lol:

SciFiGeek17
October 16th, 2009, 10:50 PM
I've been in tears ever since the ending scene! I just can't get over how emotional it was!
I've never been this emotional about a show or a character in my life! It's just...omg!

First off, I love the episode! And whoever wrote this episode, I have to say, they did it beyond brilliantly! And it just inspires me more as a writer to be as great as whoever wrote this.

Secondly, the acting by Emilie Ullerup & Amanda Tapping is just...superb! I can remember a few moments from Stargate, but Sanctuary has really pushed Amanda Tappins acting! So, bravo, AT! You should get an award!
And Emilie, with barely any lines in the last two episodes, you're expressions are more then enough!

Thirdly, I was half expecting Ashley to return right at that moment, but it looked like her brain-washing overcame here at the last moment(I could be wrong. I saw her go from very emotional, to very serious, so...*Jade Shrugs*)

And the last few seconds of Magnus crying and then that great silence as the episode ended! Bravo!

Lastly, I have to say the one line that made me cry was when Magnus tried to get through to Ashley, "do you remember when you were small, and you crawled into my arms at night and said 'mommy I'm scared'...Ashley, I'm scared".

I couldn't have come up with a better final line between mother and daughter!

Part of me thinks Ashley is dead, but another part of me says she may still be alive!

I saw the preview for the next episode, so maybe after it, I'll feel more confident that Ashley could be alive!

Anyway, grand episode! All the people who worked on this episode: cast, crew, director, editor...etc they all did a superb job! I hope to see more and more of Sanctuary for a very long time!

kes
October 16th, 2009, 10:53 PM
If the have the balls to stick to the story


Ash is dead. But the way they did it. They can totally bring her back. Question is, can EU still do the fight scenes?


Do I have to use spoiler tags here?

Love the scenes between Druitt and Magnus :D
And by the promo there's more to came.

fav line.

"Cant change in the flesh whats written in the bone"

SamJackShipper93
October 16th, 2009, 10:59 PM
Well, you can see Emilie in the promos for next week.


Any links?

I just rewatched the promo on my DVD I used to tape the episode. I thought that Emilie was in more of it, but actually she's seen in only one shot of Ashley smiling. I'm not sure, but even that could have been a flashback from Season 1 or something, so I really don't know if she's actually in it or not. :(

SamJackShipper93
October 16th, 2009, 11:00 PM
LOL, may I just say that I found Henry's werewolf ringtone ironically hilarious? :P

the dancer of spaz
October 16th, 2009, 11:08 PM
If the have the balls to stick to the story


Ash is dead. But the way they did it. They can totally bring her back. Question is, can EU still do the fight scenes?


Do I have to use spoiler tags here?

Love the scenes between Druitt and Magnus :D
And by the promo there's more to came.

fav line.

"Cant change in the flesh whats written in the bone"

I'm sorry... I must have missed something. :)

Why wouldn't EU be able to do the fight scenes? Did something happen?

jasminaGo
October 17th, 2009, 01:15 AM
Oh wow... I'm completely braindead right now. This ep just blew me away.

The effects were a bit dodgy at times but the story was powerful enough to take away my attention from it so it didn't bother me.

There were so many great dialogs and characters scenes in just this one ep (more then some shows get in entire seasons). Amanda and Emilie's performances were stellar, as well as CH both as Druitt and Bigfoot.

Can't say that I'm sad Clara's gone, but I do feel sorry for Will... it was the only storyline he had. Still not warmed up to Kate either, but she was slightly less irritating in this ep then the last one so that's a plus.... I think.

Can we jump forward in time and get the next ep now? :p




LOL, may I just say that I found Henry's werewolf ringtone ironically hilarious? :P

Oh yeah.

And Damian the Nubbin. :p I love those guys. :p


Any links?

Eulogy

This is a promo shot for the next ep

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/jasmina_Go/Sanctuary/Promo%20shots/203-4.jpg

So it looks like Emilie should be in it.

SciFiGeek17
October 17th, 2009, 01:27 AM
Can we jump forward in time and get the next ep now? :p

I'm with you on that!

kes
October 17th, 2009, 02:08 AM
I'm sorry... I must have missed something. :)

Why wouldn't EU be able to do the fight scenes? Did something happen?

EU got hurt. She lost her tailbone. And thats painfull and sticks with you for the rest of your life.

The only prob I had with the CGI was when they are running. They're going really slow!

I think the troll looks pretty cool.

Also the EM shiled didnt kill Druitt in Sanctuary for all why kill the others? Ok I guess it could be stronger then the other shield.

And also in Sanctuary for all Druitt tries to port into the Sanctuary and gets tossed out, here they said the entire place is shielded yet they port to the front door? Shouldnt the shield go all the way to the gates?

Aside from that, Awsome.
As for Eulogy:

I think Ash is only in it cos Magnus imagines it

Syfy has a trailer and sneak peak for Eulogy:
http://www.syfy.com/sanctuary/

jasminaGo
October 17th, 2009, 05:10 AM
I'm with you on that!

You wouldn't happen to have a time machine lying around, would you? :p


Oh forgot to mention earlier, the music was amazing in this ep. Very powerful. Loved it.


Also over 760 screencaps from the ep
201 End of Nights part 2.zip (http://www.4shared.com/file/141493756/f4cc7961/201_End_of_Nights_part_2.html)

Inward Wind
October 17th, 2009, 05:22 AM
Good episode. I did notice a couple of places where the characters were not blended very well..mostly in the London Sanctuary. But, it really didn't take away much from the episode, except in that one scene.

Wasn't upset about Clara getting killed off. As far as her affecting Will, I don't think they had developed that relationship enough before they killed her off to really play any huge impact on me.

Thanks kes for putting down the line, "Cant change in the flesh whats written in the bone" by Druitt. I've watched that particular scene 5 times to try to figure out what Druitt says but couldn't make it out.

The scenes with Druitt and Magnus, Druitt and Ashley fighting and Magnus and Ashley at the end were by far the best of the episode, imo. They all did a great job pulling at the heart strings with and without words. Ashley's "mom" and then tears at the end really got me the most. Gawd, I hope she isn't dead. No other storyline of the show gets to me as much as that particular one does.

Loved Telsa and his line something about "I'm not British so the whole tally-ho thing doesn't work for me" made me chuckle.

Also, I can't get over how much Henry has changed from last season. He looks so much older and weathered (not sure that's the right word) then he did before. That's good in a way but, on the otherhand if he is suppose to play the naive, bungling geek, it doesn't work as much for him as it did last season. Maybe they're changing his status or role on the show?

Skydiver
October 17th, 2009, 05:28 AM
Okay did SyFy use all it's CGI budget on SGU because normally this show has great CGI and tonight it was painfully obvious that they were on green screen, like it wasn't even trying to blend them in. It really took me out of the story to be honest. This looked like CGI/Actor blending from ten years ago.

Anyone else notice how bad it was?

I did. It's like, they were so worried about making the fight scenes look good or spending time on them that the London scenes kinda got a 'ok, close enough'

not horrible, but obvious that they were cgi'd in



The one thing that I'm really confussed about is Kate's bit at the end. ("Hey, Blondie!") I thought that she had killed Ashley right then and there with the weapon. It looked like it completely disintergrated her. But right afterwards, Ashley was right there, trying to protect Helen. So what exactly did Kate do to her? :confused:

That is all. This episode has left me really depressed. :( But I can't wait for more! :D

Edit: Oh! And poor Damian the Nubbin! :P

kate hit her with what looked like a rocket propelled grenade and likely smitherened a good chunk of her body, which rebuilt itself



Do I have to use spoiler tags here?


for future speculation/spoilers, yes. for anything that happened in the episode being discussed, no.


LOL, may I just say that I found Henry's werewolf ringtone ironically hilarious? :P

i laughed. although i was kinda, well let down is definitely the wrong word, maybe surprised that henry didn't wolf out to fight. or does this mythology ascribe to the 'only wolf out during the full moon' philosophy?

or maybe i missed him feeling/expressing 'too bad it's not the full moon cause i sure could use some extra power right now'...or was he cured and i just don't remember it?

Colonel Rebel
October 17th, 2009, 05:33 AM
Great episode. I loved everything about it, except the invisible girl being killed. I was hoping she'd stick around.

SciFiGeek17
October 17th, 2009, 05:38 AM
You wouldn't happen to have a time machine lying around, would you? :p

Oh crap! I just recently moved and forget to grab the time machine! Dang it! Sorry...*Jade Shrugs*

lol

Skydiver
October 17th, 2009, 05:40 AM
i thnk it'll re-run next week, maybe from 6-7 on scifi

jasminaGo
October 17th, 2009, 05:45 AM
i laughed. although i was kinda, well let down is definitely the wrong word, maybe surprised that henry didn't wolf out to fight. or does this mythology ascribe to the 'only wolf out during the full moon' philosophy?

or maybe i missed him feeling/expressing 'too bad it's not the full moon cause i sure could use some extra power right now'...or was he cured and i just don't remember it?

He started to shift a little in the previous ep when he was talking to Bigfoot but stopped.

I think he didn't change this time because his expertise as human was more needed then his strength as wolf. I assume he would have had a hard time getting the EM shield back up if he was a werewolf at the time.



Oh crap! I just recently moved and forget to grab the time machine! Dang it! Sorry...*Jade Shrugs*

lol

D'oh! :p

suse
October 17th, 2009, 06:15 AM
With regards to Ashley's fate, teleporting when the shield was up killed that clone near Bigfoot, Will, and Henry, so it stands to reason it'd do the same to Ashley. Unless, since the clones were made from Ashley's changed DNA/blood, they may be completely destroyed, but since there's some part of the old Ashley still present, that may allow her to survive, in some form.

This is a good reasoning why she might survive and not the soldiers.

I think the pain of getting skewered by dear old Dad brought normal Ashley back for a second, and then the pain of getting blasted by Kate brought her back long enough to know her mom as her mom. Enough to know she couldn't control it so she committed suicide. I'd imagine that pain (if she survives) might drive the rest of the madness out of her.

suse

Rocky89
October 17th, 2009, 06:15 AM
omg... that ending!! :eek:

helen! ashley!! :(

i don't like crying in front of ppl, so it wasn't easy to hold that in... but my mom felt the same way.

that ep was made of awesome!!


i have a lump in my throat... amanda, you did it again!

the entire ep rocked, but that end... i absolutely adore mother/daughter relationships, and that ending...

(my mom just came in the room and again said how wonderful amanda was. *she said when helen looked up at ashley, begging to reach her... *)

so waaah, sad and beautiful, and amanda you're a great actress!!

(everyone did great, with special mention for emilie)

I'm glad to her you loved the episode Sally. :)

Those are the scenes I love the most, they're so very well done and they're Amanda at her best, we need to see more of those, and I think we will. :) I'm sorry you almost cried Sally, but I told you to bring tissues. P

*Hugs* :)


when helen came into the infirmary, and told kate she could leave, but also chewed her out and walked out... i turned to my mom and said, 'now *that's* the way they should have talked to vala!' :p

:lol: What about when Helen was pointing a gun at her and almost shot her foot, I'm sure you'd love to see Sam do that to Vala. :D

Alright, I've read through the comments and I REALLY like what I see. So far I haven't read anything bad, there's the CGI talk but that's it. It seems everyone was real impressed with this episode and it made some people cry, or almost cry (Sally :D). I can't wait for next week, I agree with Mack_1, this is show is my main reason to look forward to Friday nights, and I can tell I'm really going to enjoy this season. :)

suse
October 17th, 2009, 06:31 AM
Bwah! I thought she was gonna straight up knock Kate's meal cart right off the bed. :lol:

Spaz comes back and moved right back into my skull. :P Plenty of room. Sweep out the dustbunnies while you are at it. ;)

I so wanted her too.

:lol: She threw 2 cell phones. What a temper!

suse

Jeffer
October 17th, 2009, 07:31 AM
Great ep i so didn't see that coming with Ashely hopefully she comes back some how. I thought it was interesting that the head of the Cabal almost looked sad when they were getting attacked by the elemental. I was really hoping when we saw the troll that it would rip the arms or one of the super soldiers. i was also hoping that Druitt would cut the head off of at least one of them kinda a let down that most of them were killed by a ray gun

The thing i didn't get was when Tesla said she has the abilities of the the 5 most powerful abnormal on earth by my count it was 3 Vampire, Druitt and Helen. and what was it exaclty about Ashley's original blood that made the weapon hella effective.

WishIwasJoes
October 17th, 2009, 07:40 AM
WoW I know people didn;t like Vala but can we please let that go. Geez.

This episode left me in constant fear! I was so sad to see Clara died. Her powers seemed so important to the show and with her and Will having a long distance relationship, it did not upset the balance of the show. The girl playing Clara was a really strong actress but I am sure that matters not to the Helen/Will shippers! :P

Although I have to say for her death to have been more of an impact her and Will should have been seeing eachother longer. But now Will in a sense knows how Magnus feels to lose something to the Cabal.

Kate has not really been in the show too much. Her lines and acting where better directed in this episode but I am just not warming up to her. They seem to be easing her into place. Still I really do not think she fits into the feel of the show.

There was so much wonderful acting from the whole cast. The pace of the show was great and left you on the edge of you seat.

I hope Ashely is not dead. I loved the Mother/Daughter bond that was in the show. I am not fond of how dark the show has gotten. I am hoping we will see some episodes like Nubbins or something soon along those lines. But that might be just me.

If you are a fan of EU and have her on FB she was talking about being back on set late in Sept. But that might have just been a visit. She is my favorite character so I really hope she is not gone forever.

Any one else just waiting until we get to see wonderful Dr. Watson?? Oh and Btw I am SOOOOOOOOOO glad Tesla is around as much as he is. I still love rewatching the 5 and I so loved the feel of those shows.

ann_sgcfan
October 17th, 2009, 08:25 AM
Awesome show! Every one did a great job and I really think AT and EU were amazing in the last scene between them!

I don't think Ashley killed herself, I saw several make that comment. Henry just radioed Helen and Druitt about the EM field being online. Ashley at the time had just been ... well blown up. Which severed the Cabal connection/control with her when she cried out to her mom! (Amazing scene if people follow this show at all - that scene was awesome! EU and AT did great!!). Sorry back to my comment :P Ashley may not have known the EM shield was back online when she teleported out. Can't wait to see what happens next week.

Yes I agree with whoever pointed out the copies are not as resilient as the original. Earlier in this eppy Henry or Will - one explained what the EM field did... scattered their molecules? but look at what happened to them in the eppy:

1) they were burned beyond recognition at the London Sanctuary (Dana said to get them out and the EM field was still active) Helen just thinks the last member broke them out, but they aren't sure. When they went into the room the back doors were closed, weren't they? I mean it could be the guy broke them out we may never know. Anyways they survived.

2) Kate used a missile or whatever that was to shot Ashley and it looked like it blew her up and she came back.

3) All the electrical current, the bullets fired at them, etc they survived it all, except for the radiation weapon Tesla created. So if it just displaced their molecules ... Ashley/Helen or Dana may be able to regenerate her. Should be interesting to see where they take this next week!!

According to reports and spoilers for future eppys EU isn't in any more eppy's after the third one. However, It could be a well kept secret at her return. LOL although reading the post above mine she may make it back for the final? Which would be awesome as long as it wasn't a reset. I like the changes to Ashley... strange as that may sound, but having her to adjust to all these new powers would give the character a great storyline. I do hope Helen can severe the Cabals ties with her for good ... or maybe that's something she always has to wonder about ... losing control again. Think of all the stuff the character would go though, especially if people like Kate thinks they can make big money on her on the black market. She wouldn't be safe from anyone not to mention having to regain her reputation among the Sanctuaries. Can't wait till next week!

SamJackShipper93
October 17th, 2009, 08:28 AM
"Eulogy" Promo (http://video.syfy.com/shows/sanctuary)

Minor "Eulogy" Spoilers (Just what's in the promo)
Does anyone know what John says in the promo for next week?

It sounds a bit like "I don't need your advice" but I'm not sure.

Rodney_Mckay
October 17th, 2009, 08:43 AM
John says "I don't need your blessing!"

I do hope Ashley is alright :(

the dancer of spaz
October 17th, 2009, 10:11 AM
EU got hurt. She lost her tailbone. And thats painfull and sticks with you for the rest of your life.

Yikes! Did that happen while she was working on the show, or afterwards? That sounds awful.

the dancer of spaz
October 17th, 2009, 10:16 AM
Spaz comes back and moved right back into my skull. :P Plenty of room. Sweep out the dustbunnies while you are at it. ;)

I so wanted her too.

:lol: She threw 2 cell phones. What a temper!

suse

*packs bags and moves in*

How's it going, suse? :lol:

The dark side of Magnus is what I've always enjoyed seeing. She's seen too much to remain proper and well-mannered all the time, and it is her daughter we're talking about... She has been and will be totally within her rights to throw things (and people!) around from here on out. :cool:

ljscott
October 17th, 2009, 10:16 AM
SyFy has already replaced Ashley's picture with Kate. Not happy about that at all. I knew it was coming, but still don't like to see it.

suse
October 17th, 2009, 10:26 AM
Ashley being on there would confuse new viewers.


When are they putting up the podcast! <<whines>>

suse

suse
October 17th, 2009, 10:27 AM
Ashley being on there would confuse new viewers.


When are they putting up the podcast! <<whines>>

suse

kes
October 17th, 2009, 10:42 AM
Yikes! Did that happen while she was working on the show, or afterwards? That sounds awful.

They were already shooting the show. But I think nobody knows how she got hurt.

hedwig
October 17th, 2009, 11:15 AM
Okay did SyFy use all it's CGI budget on SGU because normally this show has great CGI and tonight it was painfully obvious that they were on green screen, like it wasn't even trying to blend them in. It really took me out of the story to be honest. This looked like CGI/Actor blending from ten years ago.

Anyone else notice how bad it was?

Yep. There was just something "off" in some of the scenes that caught my attention.


EU got hurt. She lost her tailbone. And thats painfull and sticks with you for the rest of your life.

I personally know how painful this can be. I fractured my tailbone a few years ago, and while it has healed, it is still weak and no amount of physical therapy and exercise has managed to make it stronger.:(


SyFy has already replaced Ashley's picture with Kate. Not happy about that at all. I knew it was coming, but still don't like to see it.

Can't say I'm happy about it either. I really liked Emilie. They could have kept Emilie in the show somehow without her having to do stunts and fighting and stuff like that.

While I agree with everyone that AT did a great job in the scene at the end with Ashley, it was the first time since watching "Sanctuary" that I had a flashback to Sam Carter in SG1. When Magnus was pleading with Ashley, it reminded me of the scene where Sam was pleading with Fifth to stop torturing her.

jasminaGo
October 17th, 2009, 11:39 AM
The podcast is uploaded

http://www.syfy.com/sanctuary/includes/podcasts/podcast.xml

Jeffer
October 17th, 2009, 11:55 AM
info about EU
IMDB has EU in for at least the next 2 eps that's as far as they have updated the Sanctuary board 25. Eulogy (23 October 2009) - Ashley Magnus
Next US airings:
Fri. Oct. 23 10:00 PM SYFY
Sat. Oct. 24 12:00 AM SYFY
26. Hero (30 October 2009) - Ashley Magnus

Exiled Master
October 17th, 2009, 12:10 PM
Clara totally got the bridge dropped on her. I was totally okay with that ship too: we never really saw Will being happy with her.

Did anybody else think 'RELEASE THE RANCOR!' when they brought out the elemental?

BigHonkinSpaceGun
October 17th, 2009, 01:06 PM
Did anyone else go "OMG! Where'd they get the cave troll?!" when the defense of the London Sanctuary began?

I think the way the EM shield works is that if you're outside it and try to transport into an area protected by one, you get spat back out, like what happened to Druitt. But if you're inside one and try to transport, you'll die.

From the moment we first say Clara, I had a feeling she was going to die. Reminds me of what Tesla said about young love being tragic.

I totally did not see Ashley's death coming. I was totally in shock for several minutes after the episode ended.

Too bad about EU's injury. I also hurt my back (fractured L5), and 4 years later it still bothers me quite a bit some times.

ZeroPoint
October 17th, 2009, 01:50 PM
As soon as I saw Clara, it was "Cool! Recurring character that now has to die....". Invisible people can come and go (like any abnormal) as the writers want. Papa invisible could have had other children.

Since Kate was shown for no good reason, she's the new girl for Will/Henry to impress.

Jitter
October 17th, 2009, 01:51 PM
My heart broke. Amanda played despair so greatly I just had to grab my son and cuddle him tight when she was talking to Ashley. And omg the ending D:

And poor poor Will T_T And I don't like Kate at all :|

Poor Helen T____T
LOL, may I just say that I found Henry's werewolf ringtone ironically hilarious? :P

No I laughed like an idiot too :D

And I loved seeing a nubbin again ^^

majorsal
October 17th, 2009, 04:13 PM
And the last few seconds of Magnus crying and then that great silence as the episode ended! Bravo!

i know! :eek: i *very* dramatic way of ending a very emotional scene... (i rewatched just that scene before coming here)


Lastly, I have to say the one line that made me cry was when Magnus tried to get through to Ashley, "do you remember when you were small, and you crawled into my arms at night and said 'mommy I'm scared'...Ashley, I'm scared".

I couldn't have come up with a better final line between mother and daughter!

yes on everything. :(

i do wonder, though, what made ashley start coming around? maybe her dad stabbing her? tesla electrocuting her? kate blowing her up? (wow, nice ppl, eh? :p)

when helen first plead with ash (the 'i'm scared' scene), ashley was having none of it. but maybe everything together, topping it off with her mother's heart-felt plea *finally* brought ashley out enough to gain control.

ashley killed herself, didn't she? (along with that other super being)


Part of me thinks Ashley is dead, but another part of me says she may still be alive!

alive, please! :p


on a con side, i *did* notice some flaws in their green screening... i wonder if they didn't really have enough time to polish it up?

majorsal
October 17th, 2009, 04:20 PM
Can't say that I'm sad Clara's gone, but I do feel sorry for Will... it was the only storyline he had. Still not warmed up to Kate either, but she was slightly less irritating in this ep then the last one so that's a plus.... I think.


i didn't get the change to 'know' clara, but i do feel more sorry for wil than missing clara or anything. (and i wonder why we didn't 'see' how clara died? kind of mysterious?...)

i'm going to bring up something that's not going to be popular, but... i was kind of hoping bigfoot wouldn't make it. i know, i'm bad! :eek:, but i find bigfoot a little silly sometimes. the only scene i liked with him (so far this season) was when helen came in to talk to him while he was lying there. maybe because he was quiet and not grunting, but... i wouldn't miss him if he was gone. sorry bigfoot fans. :S

jelgate
October 17th, 2009, 04:32 PM
After the medicroe to bad feeling of Part 1 I am glad to say part 2 met all my expectations. I really thought everyone had a great part and had something to contribute. Even Will I can't stand was a joy to watch especially when you see the anger in him after Clara dies. Enjoyable to see Helen deal with those tough moral choices. Although one criticism is when she is crying about Ashley you can clearly see Amanda Tapping lose her British accent. That Cabal lady is so cold. And those are the villians I like. Not the cliche laughing kind but the cold people who calmly say exactly what they want. As much as I enjoyed this episode it seems a mistake to kill off Ashley

majorsal
October 17th, 2009, 04:33 PM
I think the pain of getting skewered by dear old Dad brought normal Ashley back for a second, and then the pain of getting blasted by Kate brought her back long enough to know her mom as her mom. Enough to know she couldn't control it so she committed suicide. I'd imagine that pain (if she survives) might drive the rest of the madness out of her.

suse

i appreciate that thought-through, and it makes sense. :)

helen-ashley all the way! :(

Eternal Density
October 17th, 2009, 04:34 PM
Wow, just wow.
Also, WOW.
Lots of strong emotional parts and great fights. And destruction of phones :P Great to see Tesla making good use of his powers.
The end took me by surprise, I wasn't expecting it to happen like that at all! I like it best when a plot surprises me. I saw Clara's death coming. A pity but it makes sense for both Helen and Will to lose someone close. At least Clara had her happy final two hours :P

...(and i wonder why we didn't 'see' how clara died? kind of mysterious?...)

i'm going to bring up something that's not going to be popular, but... i was kind of hoping bigfoot wouldn't make it. i know, i'm bad! :eek:, but i find bigfoot a little silly sometimes. the only scene i liked with him (so far this season) was when helen came in to talk to him while he was lying there. maybe because he was quiet and not grunting, but... i wouldn't miss him if he was gone. sorry bigfoot fans. :SI kinda agree about the Big Guy, I wouldn't have really missed him a whole lot. As for Clara, we saw one of the 'supersoldiers' turn back to where she was. They couldn't easily show her death without showing too much else of Clara...

majorsal
October 17th, 2009, 04:51 PM
i'm hoping to see more darkhelen, but i don't want her like that all the time. (she'd go insane :S)

there were really a LOT of scenes that were great... this ep goes on my top five faves. :)

wkw427
October 17th, 2009, 05:09 PM
I swear, the last four episodes (last 2 in s1) were the best scifi episodes I have ever seen. They make the first 11 episodes look like crap

DigiFluid
October 17th, 2009, 06:37 PM
The Good:
Well, that's more like it. After the lousy first half, they figured out how to get it right again.

Various shots (Tokyo, the Cabal/Refinery, parts of the Sanctuary) all looked just great. They've really got the visual style of the series down pat. And the very short shot of the attack on the Tokyo Sanctuary was just epic.

Henry and Tesla did there yin and yang thing, researching the weapon. "Tiny Tim" made me laugh, though I somewhat question the ethics of using the Nubbins as test subjects. It was great to see Helen boxed in, and Druitt actually giving a damn about his daughter. I rather enjoyed seeing Invisible Girl again :D And it was nice to see Will grilling new girl for information.

Druitt's swordplay was really effing cool to watch, and it's an interesting little tidbit that Ashley's eyes returned to normal when she was run through. And hey, did anyone else immediately think of the Black Oil in The X-Files when Will let it loose in that hallway? And I found it hilarious that a) Invisible Girl is running around naked (I know she has to); and b) that he called the oil trick Operation Exxon Valdez.

Very upset to see Invisible Girl die :( In fact, the whole last 15 minutes had a very bittersweet tone. Her death, Helen admitting that she's been wrong and leaving the viral antidote with Bigfoot, and authorizing Tesla to make a weapon to stop Ashley by any means necessary. Sad to see the Sanctuary being fortified, and a poignant little chat between Will and Helen on the rooftop--interrupted by the huge "oh crap" of invasion.

Which, in itself was pretty damn cool. The new weapon was used, Tesla and Druitt kicked some ass, and Bigfoot's finally back on his feet. Loved seeing Ashley was still in there....did she just vaporize herself?! Can't wait for next week!

The bad:
new girl, PLEASE go away
the Medusa-looking woman was just so ludicrous looking that I had to laugh
hate to say it, but Emilie really doesn't do the angry face well
the weapon prop. What is that, cereal boxes and a toolbox handle?

The Ugly:
For the love of whatever gods may or may not exist, STOP USING THE DAMN MULTICAM THING. Worst. Technique. Imaginable.

SundaySusans
October 17th, 2009, 07:00 PM
wow

kthomassg
October 17th, 2009, 07:29 PM
I hope Ashely is not dead. I loved the Mother/Daughter bond that was in the show.

The mother/daughter relationship is one of the biggest things the web-episodes had going for it, in my opinion. That was something I was really looking forward to in the series, to see how they really dealt with it. They had so many other options than to make her disappear (I'm refusing to believe she is dead at this point, no body no death).:(

kthomassg
October 17th, 2009, 07:36 PM
i'm going to bring up something that's not going to be popular, but... i was kind of hoping bigfoot wouldn't make it. i know, i'm bad! :eek:, but i find bigfoot a little silly sometimes. the only scene i liked with him (so far this season) was when helen came in to talk to him while he was lying there. maybe because he was quiet and not grunting, but... i wouldn't miss him if he was gone. sorry bigfoot fans. :S

I have to say, I'd rather he go than Ashley.

majorsal
October 17th, 2009, 07:46 PM
The mother/daughter relationship is one of the biggest things the web-episodes had going for it, in my opinion. That was something I was really looking forward to in the series, to see how they really dealt with it. They had so many other options than to make her disappear (I'm refusing to believe she is dead at this point, no body no death).:(

i'm hoping (REALLY hoping) that this *isn't* the end of the helen/ashley relationship. i mean, even if ash is dead, it doesn't end the relationship, but i'd like to SEE it, so keep her alive! :p

but if ash survives, this experience could add massive layers to their already loving but complicated relationship. :)


on a side note, rocky asked me how my mom and i reacted when we saw the end scene...

when the ep ended, i didn't want to say anything... because my throat was hurting from trying not to cry. i just used the remote to stop the vcr recording, and then switched the channel. i can't remember what my mom said, or even my reply at first, but i said, 'you know what ashley did, right?' and my mom had this sad look on her face and quietly said 'yes'. i could tell she was having probs with wanting to cry too.

before i went into the bedroom, mom said amanda was wonderful. mom loves amanda too. :)

Amalthea
October 17th, 2009, 07:55 PM
i'm hoping (REALLY hoping) that this *isn't* the end of the helen/ashley relationship. i mean, even if ash is dead, it doesn't end the relationship, but i'd like to SEE it, so keep her alive! :p

but if ash survives, this experience could add massive layers to their already loving but complicated relationship. :)


on a side note, rocky asked me how my mom and i reacted when we saw the end scene...

when the ep ended, i didn't want to say anything... because my throat was hurting from trying not to cry. i just used the remote to stop the vcr recording, and then switched the channel. i can't remember what my mom said, or even my reply at first, but i said, 'you know what ashley did, right?' and my mom had this sad look on her face and quietly said 'yes'. i could tell she was having probs with wanting to cry too.

before i went into the bedroom, mom said amanda was wonderful. mom loves amanda too. :)

I hear you. My brother and I gasped when she did it. And then just stared at the TV in shock. I didn't even think to grab the remote to mute or change channels. It was a complete, "Oh my GOD!" moment. Completely tragic.

jds1982
October 17th, 2009, 08:04 PM
Boy they sure killed the invisible chick off quick. Also how did they get that Ashley had powers from 5 abnormals? I counted 2 maybe 3. Druitt, Tesla, and possibly Magnus.

SamJackShipper93
October 17th, 2009, 08:23 PM
ashley killed herself, didn't she? (along with that other super being)


Yes, I'm sure she did. She killed herself before placing that responsibility on her mother. :(

WishIwasJoes
October 17th, 2009, 08:25 PM
Wow they replaced EU picture already with the new chick?? Is there a link for that? I am sorry but when recasting starts this early in a show it just points to down hill trouble with all sorts of stuff. Just look at SGA.

I really hope they bring ashely back because with out her and magnus working side by side I have lost all interest. I know alot of people think Will is awesome but I find him to be a snore. Henry is ok but he bounces back from smart "EM shield is up!" to just plain silly. I.E. letting Kate get away.

I like john but I must say I enjoyed the show better when he and Magnus were at odds. Tesla is very interesting and I adore him. I also loved Watson but he is dead! (rats)

Also I still cannot beleive that they killed off yet another member of the 5!

SamJackShipper93
October 17th, 2009, 08:30 PM
Regarding who I'd rather have die: How about *NO ONE*!!!

Seriously, we're only 15 episodes in. I don't see the reason to start killing off main characters! Personally, I think an episode like this could be a great character development episode for Ashley, if only it had been taken in another direction.

For example, how about instead of only slowing them down, Nikola's weapon actually did work, but instead of having the desired effect, it causes Ashley severe damage to her spine. This gets Emilie off her feet for awhile, and makes the realization that the Cabal took so much from her even more painful . . . WITHOUT KILLING HER! :mckay: Thus we have character development for Ashley, relationship development for Helen/Ashley and Druitt/Ashley, and happier viewers. :)

Ugh. I hate it when some of my favorite characters are killed off. :( Janet. Carson. Ashley. It really makes me want to stop watching these shows (Although I know that that will never happen! :P).

Rocky89
October 17th, 2009, 08:41 PM
Regarding who I'd rather have die: How about *NO ONE*!!!

Seriously, we're only 15 episodes in. I don't see the reason to start killing off main characters! Personally, I think an episode like this could be a great character development episode for Ashley, if only it had been taken in another direction.

For example, how about instead of only slowing them down, Nikola's weapon actually did work, but instead of having the desired effect, it causes Ashley severe damage to her spine. This gets Emilie off her feet for awhile, and makes the realization that the Cabal took so much from her even more painful . . . WITHOUT KILLING HER! :mckay: Thus we have character development for Ashley, relationship development for Helen/Ashley and Druitt/Ashley, and happier viewers. :)

Ugh. I hate it when some of my favorite characters are killed off. :( Janet. Carson. Ashley. It really makes me want to stop watching these shows (Although I know that that will never happen! :P).

Wow, that actually makes sense. :P

But like we always hear, no one stays dead in Sci-fi. Daniel Jackson, perfect example. :daniel::P

SciFiGeek17
October 17th, 2009, 09:36 PM
But like we always hear, no one stays dead in Sci-fi. Daniel Jackson, perfect example. :daniel::P

But it feels different. Most of the time when someone died and came back to life if was left in one episode(except for season between reckoning and threads, but).

It's weird, part of me feels she's dead, but the other part feels she's alive. It's like in that early episode of stargate 'Fire and Water' when Jack, Sam and Teal'c were convinced daniel was dead, but also that he was live.

I'm expecting some great twist...possible in the next few episodes.

antoa
October 18th, 2009, 01:13 AM
Boy they sure killed the invisible chick off quick. Also how did they get that Ashley had powers from 5 abnormals? I counted 2 maybe 3. Druitt, Tesla, and possibly Magnus.
As I understood it, the line about the abilities of the 5 most powerful abnormals was in reference to the source blood and 'The Five', not that she necessarily had 5 powers.

helenmagnus23
October 18th, 2009, 01:54 AM
I've been watching the last scene over and over and thinking about what Dana said to Ashley in Revelation p2 and what i've been thinking is what if the Cabal put like a fail safe thing inside her like that bug they put in Will that in case she swap's side's she dies or the cabal think it would kill one of there super soliders .

What do you think ?

sandra-carter
October 18th, 2009, 02:01 AM
I loved the second episode, here in Portugal only through the internet, but I see it anyway. I loved that moment between Helen and ashley, I personally think she just disappeared but EU is hurt I think she will not appear on the show for a while!

:sam:

kes
October 18th, 2009, 02:46 AM
But it feels different. Most of the time when someone died and came back to life if was left in one episode(except for season between reckoning and threads, but).

It's weird, part of me feels she's dead, but the other part feels she's alive. It's like in that early episode of stargate 'Fire and Water' when Jack, Sam and Teal'c were convinced daniel was dead, but also that he was live.

I'm expecting some great twist...possible in the next few episodes.

I like Ash, personally I would love if she comes back. But it would be a total cheat!
Dead is dead, dont bring me that Sci fi crap that nobody really dies.
If they have the balls she wont came back unless its a flashback or a vision.
Spoiler/Spec for Ep 7 It would be cool if Magnus going insane in ep 7 is played out tru the other eps leading to that.
Like she keeps seeing Ash.


sandra-carter - You can watch the 1st season on the sci fi channel (Meo)

Inward Wind
October 18th, 2009, 05:26 AM
I like Ash, personally I would love if she comes back. But it would be a total cheat!
Dead is dead, dont bring me that Sci fi crap that nobody really dies.


I would agree but in this case I don't think that we can automatically conclude what happened to her. It's not like they had her body and no life signs were found. I mean, geez, she got burned up, cut with a sword, blown up with a grenade launcher and didn't die....why should we just assume that this would have done the trick and killed her? I think the key is that they didn't use the weapon, which had her DNA attached to it, on her. That leaves it open for her to have survived the latest incident.

Question that I've been wondering about....at the end when Helen says to Ashley, "Ashley please" do you think she was trying to bring Ashley out of the mind control, or do you think she knew that Ashley was planning on killing herself and didn't want her to do it? Everytime I watch it, I try to find clues to what she meant but haven't come up with an answer yet.

sandra-carter
October 18th, 2009, 06:09 AM
I like Ash, personally I would love if she comes back. But it would be a total cheat!
Dead is dead, dont bring me that Sci fi crap that nobody really dies.
If they have the balls she wont came back unless its a flashback or a vision.
Spoilers/Spec for Ep7 It would be cool if Magnus going insane in ep 7 is played out tru the other eps leading to that.
Like she keeps seeing Ash.


sandra-carter - You can watch the 1st season on the sci fi channel (Meo)




a Portuguese ! hello .. I know I can see the channel syfy(meo), but I have another package ( zon TV Cabo) does not matter anyway I can see, because there is always our Brazilian friends translate the episodes.

something really cool at the end when ashley commits suicide to protect Helen, there is a subliminal message in the fire when she and the other copy explode, I think it says "bye" ....

Jonzey
October 18th, 2009, 07:16 AM
That was an amazing episode, except for the fact they killed off two characters I really liked and are bringing in one I don't much care for.

ann_sgcfan
October 18th, 2009, 08:33 AM
As I have said on the SFA official website ... I can't see Ashley killing herself. That's the cowards way out, not to mention undermines everything I think about the character and Helen. It's also the main reason for a certain friendly debate between Jan and I on SFA site too. :) It would mean she had absolutely no faith in her mom's ability to save her (Helen - who has been searching and healing abnormals for two lifetimes). It would also mean Ashley didn't trust them, despite how quickly they came up with a weapon to stop the super soldiers. What does that say about Ashley's confidence in Helen and the Sanctuary?

Skydiver
October 18th, 2009, 08:45 AM
what i think is going to happen

remember that ash likely still has the 'regenerate your body' thing going on. we saw her survive being burned alive, and come back from a point black hit from a RPG (or equivalent)

she poofed away and 'pulled herself together' - literally :D

and i think they're gonna find her. but she won't want to come back. she wants to hide, to collect herself, to deal with what's happened. (either they will find or they will come close and she will keep herself hidden)

she's going to want to go away, to find herself, her REAL self, not Helen's daughter. she'll want to be on her own to see for herself that she can be on her own

so we, and maybe helen or will, will know that she's alive and 'well' but it also writes her out for a while

ann_sgcfan
October 18th, 2009, 09:00 AM
what i think is going to happen

remember that ash likely still has the 'regenerate your body' thing going on. we saw her survive being burned alive, and come back from a point black hit from a RPG (or equivalent)

she poofed away and 'pulled herself together' - literally :D

and i think they're gonna find her. but she won't want to come back. she wants to hide, to collect herself, to deal with what's happened. (either they will find or they will come close and she will keep herself hidden)

she's going to want to go away, to find herself, her REAL self, not Helen's daughter. she'll want to be on her own to see for herself that she can be on her own

so we, and maybe helen or will, will know that she's alive and 'well' but it also writes her out for a while

Yeah I can see that happening. can even take it a step further and have Ashley worried the Cabal will regain mind control over her hence staying away too... if there is anything left of them (maybe Dana survives). Also I think it would be kinda cool if only Helen believes her daughter is alive while everyone else believes she is dead... kinda like what Helen did with Gregory. All while Ashley is trying to come to terms with who she has become/ did in the past.

Skydiver
October 18th, 2009, 09:03 AM
or

if only will knows, and promises not to tell helen

think of that conflict

ann_sgcfan
October 18th, 2009, 09:06 AM
or

if only will knows, and promises not to tell helen

think of that conflict

LOL oooh Will would be toast when Helen finally found out, if that happened. :p It would be good conflict.

Sp!der
October 18th, 2009, 09:46 AM
okay, so... Sanctuary became with these two episodes my all time favorite show. But is Ashley really dead?! if so way to go to tptb, cause I never thought of that!

kes
October 18th, 2009, 12:08 PM
a Portuguese ! hello .. I know I can see the channel syfy(meo), but I have another package ( zon TV Cabo) does not matter anyway I can see, because there is always our Brazilian friends translate the episodes.

something really cool at the end when ashley commits suicide to protect Helen, there is a subliminal message in the fire when she and the other copy explode, I think it says "bye" ....

Ya, eu tenho Cabo Visão. Pena que a serie não dá no AXN lol
E legendas brasileiras são uma merda. Arranja uns amigos portugueses para te traduzirem bem isso. Ou faz como eu, vai mesmo sem legendas!


Oh and sorry about the ep 7 spoiler. Completly slipped my mind!

Can you get a pic of that? The bye scene. they dont mention it in the podcast.


Also the whole suicide thing, it was a sacrifice...sounds better ppl. It wasnt a selfish act. She did it to save her mother and stop herself. It looks like she was losing control again.
At least to me LOL

And she was turn to ashes! When they are burning they almost die. And it was dif from the wepond too. if she had survived she had to be there. Rebuilding herself. Oh well we'll see lol

Skydiver
October 18th, 2009, 12:49 PM
i think she did it not just to save her mom, but her mom's life's work, all the abbys in the world, all her friends....etc.

she knew that the cabal had to be stopped, and her sacrifice was the only way to do it

sweetviviane
October 18th, 2009, 01:17 PM
I can't believe Ashley might be dead. The whole episode was so intense and the end heartbreaking . It freaks me out. I so can't wait till Friday!!!!!

I watched the last scene over and over again I don't think it said bye besides I'm sure they would mention it on the podcast...
But I might be mistaken.

jckfan55
October 18th, 2009, 02:23 PM
I agree the CGI was really bad at times and did take away from the overall enjoyment of what was otherwise a really good episode. I enjoyed the story but I do wish they had the money and time to put more into the CGI/Visual effects and music for a better overall higher production quality.

There was one scene where they were running where the CGI background was really obvious. The floor and walls just brought you out of the moment briefly. :(

But overall I enjoyed this episode. good conclusion to part 1. I liked that Helen had a scene w/ Bigfoot. I didn't care at all that Invisi-girl died and I really felt no connection btw her and Will anyway. I'm hoping Kate improves b/c right now I don't like her at all and I think we will be seeing more of her.

The real moments for me were btw Helen & Druitt and of course Helen and Ashley. That's where I really care and I was totally caught up in it. At the end of the episode I was nearly in tears. And I thought about that scene afterward too. It really stuck with me. That's a high compliment in my book.

I really hope that somehow Ashley has survived. I really want to see more of the mother-daughter relationship.

kthomassg
October 18th, 2009, 03:26 PM
Skydiver and ann_sgcfan,
I hope y'all are both right. That would be a good clean up to this mess.

Chelle DB
October 18th, 2009, 04:07 PM
Well, I've just finished watching it and right now I am not happy with Mr Kindler...OMG! And when I say that I mean that I'm not happy with him coz this ep is just too sad....how could he do that to Helen? And Ashley? Heart is breaking for Helen. Loved Tesla in this ep...actually, I love Tesla...period!
I don't know what to think about it...full of action and angst and whump....just too much death....of the good guys that is.
It's put me in a really sad/low funky mood....and I'm not sure if I would like to see more eps like this. Don't get me wrong...the ep was brilliant but the emotions I guess it invokes in me are not what I need or want. Does that make sense?
My head hurts.
Hats of to all the cast...Amanda, Emilie, Christopher, Robin, Jonathon, Ryan and all the supporting cast...well done.
Of course that also applies to the crew...awesome effects!! :D

the dancer of spaz
October 18th, 2009, 04:23 PM
Is it bad if I wasn't that upset that Invisible Girl died? :o I felt like the Annoying Force was too strong in that one. Like with Kate and some aspects of Ashley, the younger female characters' behavior and dialogue have reminded me too much of the Supernatural female characters - who really have no reason to exist other than to make quips or for sexual tension with the boys.

So far (obviously), Helen is the only one who's come away unscathed. :P

For me, it'd be great if the only individuals who had sexual tension were Helen and Druitt, because it's got a far richer and deeper history than the youngsters' flings, and there's some substance there.

slurredspeech
October 18th, 2009, 04:51 PM
Like with Kate and some aspects of Ashley, the younger female characters' behavior and dialogue have reminded me too much of the Supernatural female characters - who really have no reason to exist other than to make quips or for sexual tension with the boys.

Haven't watched enough of Supernatural to comment on that part, but I'm inclined to agree with your point. I don't know what it is, but most of the time, the young female characters seem to be written as these cliché hardcore smartbum flippantly cool girls with a dry and/or cute remark ready at all times. It's not just the physical resemblance that made Kate and Clara interchangable to me.

... Wait. This means I do know what it is, after all. :o


For me, it'd be great if the only individuals who had sexual tension were Helen and Druitt, because it's got a far richer and deeper history than the youngsters' flings, and there's some substance there.

Agreed again. And not because I enjoy them two together (which, oh yeah I do!), for I wouldn't mind had Tesla been introduced as Helen's Big True Love (awesome chemistry there as well, but then, AT has great chemistry with a dead plant; I digress.) and I wouldn't mind if they decided to leave the show ship-less or UST only. What I wouldn't like seeing is too much ship, where everyone gets coupled up. Or Helen getting coupled up with everyone. It just wouldn't do much for the show, IMHO.

majorsal
October 18th, 2009, 04:56 PM
or

if only will knows, and promises not to tell helen

think of that conflict

why are we spoilering this? :p

but to continue...
IF that came to be, i'd be soooooooooo ticked at wil that i'd... i don't know, but i'd never forgive him! :mad: :( (this is me as helen)

WishIwasJoes
October 18th, 2009, 05:00 PM
Not to get off the Ashely thing but at the end of season one Henry was also being tampered with. He and Ashely were seperated for a long time, or so Henry says to Magnus. That dr. was trying hard to figure something out about henry and the medications Magnus had him on.

Does any of that play into Ashley? She so better come back. I am tired of losing my favorite characters in these Sci-fi shows, Carson, Ashley, Janet! (with the loss of carson the show went places that I was not happy about. Could that happen with this show as well. Lets hope not!!!)

Not to look to far into the future but I hope we defeat the cabal and do not make them the main focus forever. I love the show for the creatures and the mystery. (like The Edwards and the pilot)

Skydiver
October 18th, 2009, 05:09 PM
we have to spoiler speculation/spoilers for future episodes

all you can discuss in here is end of nights 1 and 2 without spoiler tags

EvenstarSRV
October 18th, 2009, 05:14 PM
I would agree but in this case I don't think that we can automatically conclude what happened to her. It's not like they had her body and no life signs were found. I mean, geez, she got burned up, cut with a sword, blown up with a grenade launcher and didn't die....why should we just assume that this would have done the trick and killed her? I think the key is that they didn't use the weapon, which had her DNA attached to it, on her. That leaves it open for her to have survived the latest incident.

They didn't use the weapon on Ashley, but two other clones are also presumed dead when they tried to teleport out with the EM shield up. So I think the only way for Ashley to have survived, while they did not, is for there to be something unique to her that didn't get used to make the clones. Or that all three of them survived.

These pictures from RealmofX's Sanctuary page has me thinking that she did survive in some way: http://sanctuaryspoilers.weebly.com/2x03---eulogy.html



Question that I've been wondering about....at the end when Helen says to Ashley, "Ashley please" do you think she was trying to bring Ashley out of the mind control, or do you think she knew that Ashley was planning on killing herself and didn't want her to do it? Everytime I watch it, I try to find clues to what she meant but haven't come up with an answer yet.

I think it was to bring her out of the mind control. She kept saying 'Ashley please' everytime she saw her, trying to reach her daughter, and she probably didn't realize what Ashley was going to do until she saw Ashley's expression after she said 'Mom.'

And I think that Ashley did sacrifice herself to save Helen primarily, and everyone else and the Sanctuary network by extension. She briefly broke through the mind control and wanted to save her mother before she lost control again.

majorsal
October 18th, 2009, 05:29 PM
They didn't use the weapon on Ashley, but two other clones are also presumed dead when they tried to teleport out with the EM shield up. So I think the only way for Ashley to have survived, while they did not, is for there to be something unique to her that didn't get used to make the clones. Or that all three of them survived.

These pictures from RealmofX's Sanctuary page has me thinking that she did survive in some way: http://sanctuaryspoilers.weebly.com/2x03---eulogy.html

speculation -
just from looking at the last pic with ash... what if ashley's invisible now (and she can't help it)?

that could mean she's not really dead, but just not able to be a part of the world in a normal way. that would kind of tie in with what i THINK amanda said in an interview about something cool happening to ash.


And I think that Ashley did sacrifice herself to save Helen primarily, and everyone else and the Sanctuary network by extension. She briefly broke through the mind control and wanted to save her mother before she lost control again.

i think so too. :(

(((ashley)))

that look on her face, and then saying 'mom... '

waaaaaah! poor helen and poor ashley! :(


i love this show! :p

EvenstarSRV
October 18th, 2009, 06:01 PM
speculation -
just from looking at the last pic with ash... what if ashley's invisible now (and she can't help it)?

that could mean she's not really dead, but just not able to be a part of the world in a normal way. that would kind of tie in with what i THINK amanda said in an interview about something cool happening to ash.


Hmmm

Not sure where'd she'd get the invisibility power though, Griffin got it because of the latent abnormalities in his DNA, which he passed to Clara.

I'm inclined to think it'll be something like what happened with Gregory in Warriors. Since staying at the Sanctuary may put it at risk, Helen has to let Ashley go somewhere else to maybe learn how to control her new powers.

badwolfSG
October 18th, 2009, 06:07 PM
I thought this is was the best episode of the whole series, the end was just heartbreaking. That being said they better being back Ashley... somehow, and the real Ashley!

Also someone brought up the topic CGI effects, I personally noticed then in ever episode. I'm not saying there not good but I noticed them and while I did notice it more in this episode I don't think it made the episode worst.

P.S. I will totally miss Clara, I think I'm going to like Kate better.

Chelle DB
October 18th, 2009, 06:08 PM
So far (obviously), Helen is the only one who's come away unscathed. :P
I wouldn't say that. Unscathed? She just presumably lost her daughter....that's pretty damn near to being wiped off! I think Helen's a lost a lot more than what may appear obvious.
I don't think Helen's come away unscathed at all. Sorry spaz...great to see you again but I don't agree with that sentiment!

:)

Exiled Master
October 18th, 2009, 06:24 PM
I liked the sword fight scene that John had, in theory. Like if that scene were redone with a proper movie budget (I have a feeling that Sanctuary could get a larger scale remake, just to take advantage of it's potential)

SamJackShipper93
October 18th, 2009, 06:25 PM
As I have said on the SFA official website ... I can't see Ashley killing herself. That's the cowards way out, not to mention undermines everything I think about the character and Helen. It's also the main reason for a certain friendly debate between Jan and I on SFA site too. :) It would mean she had absolutely no faith in her mom's ability to save her (Helen - who has been searching and healing abnormals for two lifetimes). It would also mean Ashley didn't trust them, despite how quickly they came up with a weapon to stop the super soldiers. What does that say about Ashley's confidence in Helen and the Sanctuary?

I definetley agree with what others have said. Ashley's suicide was anything but cowardice. It was everything about sacrifice. She was able to stop the last of the clones from attacking her mother. She elliminated the threat to the Sanctuary. She made sure that Helen wasn't the one faced with the impossible decision to kill her daughter. IMHO, none of these reasons are cowardly.


I wouldn't say that. Unscathed? She just presumably lost her daughter....that's pretty damn near to being wiped off! I think Helen's a lost a lot more than what may appear obvious.
I don't think Helen's come away unscathed at all. Sorry spaz...great to see you again but I don't agree with that sentiment!

:)

You're definetely right, especially since AT said in a Season 1 SciFi interview (can't remember which one) that Helen's greatest fear, more than Druitt, more than the Cabal, more than any of the Abnormals she faces, is losing Ashley. :(

allfornot
October 18th, 2009, 06:40 PM
Firstly, I seem to remember Helen saying that John could bend dementional space, why not time as well....thats how he found ashley and magnus...so WHY can he not return to when Ashley was kidnapped and save her...

Secondly, kate freelander....um bad acting much? she is was over the top. And her voice. i mean...

Also, i agree with everyone else about her being able to survive being set on fire, torpedoed and stabbed...so why would an EM shield take her down?

Also, is anyone else sorely disappointed at the lack of emotion from Henry and Will even the big guy...the have supposedly know Ashley well, henry has, his entire life...i would think he would be a little bit torn up about her being killed...dont give me that tacky- She wasn't ashley anymore thing....I am just really disappointed at the lack or compassion from all of them. I don't get it.

RealmOfX
October 18th, 2009, 06:42 PM
I wouldn't say that. Unscathed? She just presumably lost her daughter....that's pretty damn near to being wiped off! I think Helen's a lost a lot more than what may appear obvious.
I don't think Helen's come away unscathed at all. Sorry spaz...great to see you again but I don't agree with that sentiment!

:)

Uh, that wasn't Spazzy's point though

slurredspeech
October 18th, 2009, 06:43 PM
I wouldn't say that. Unscathed? She just presumably lost her daughter....that's pretty damn near to being wiped off! I think Helen's a lost a lot more than what may appear obvious.
I don't think Helen's come away unscathed at all. Sorry spaz...great to see you again but I don't agree with that sentiment!

:)

I kind of got that as spaz saying that Helen is the only one still unscathed to her, as a character and in comparison to other female characters on the show. At least that's how I interpreted that bit, in context of her post as a whole.

I think there is no doubt that Helen must be the most scarred of them all right now. :(

RealmOfX
October 18th, 2009, 06:47 PM
Firstly, I seem to remember Helen saying that John could bend dementional space, why not time as well....thats how he found ashley and magnus...so WHY can he not return to when Ashley was kidnapped and save her...

Secondly, kate freelander....um bad acting much? she is was over the top. And her voice. i mean...

Also, i agree with everyone else about her being able to survive being set on fire, torpedoed and stabbed...so why would an EM shield take her down?

Also, is anyone else sorely disappointed at the lack of emotion from Henry and Will even the big guy...the have supposedly know Ashley well, henry has, his entire life...i would think he would be a little bit torn up about her being killed...dont give me that tacky- She wasn't ashley anymore thing....I am just really disappointed at the lack or compassion from all of them. I don't get it.

But they weren't seen in the few seconds after Ashley zapped out and the end of the episode ...

Skydiver
October 18th, 2009, 06:50 PM
i think the emotional fallout will happen this friday

henry and will and biggie didn't even know what happened, much less react

as to druitt bending time and resetting things, lord i hope not. the 'go back in time and keep things from happening' is such a cheat and would make these last 3 episodes a waste

slurredspeech
October 18th, 2009, 06:56 PM
as to druitt bending time and resetting things, lord i hope not. the 'go back in time and keep things from happening' is such a cheat and would make these last 3 episodes a waste

So with you on that. That would be most unsatisfying way to deal with the whole arc. Just. A no-no. And I very much doubt there's a chance they're going to go that route. Thankfully.

Inward Wind
October 18th, 2009, 06:57 PM
Majorsal just read your speculation post and eerily had that same exact thought after looking at the picture that was posted on the spoiler link.

Could she be somehow invisible...possibly from her molecules being fragmented in teleporting and unable to be put together again (for some reason that seems vaguely familiar...was there a show in which this happened?) or maybe, hopefully not, she is a ghost. The reason I think that I came to this possibility was because she is wearing the same clothes that she had on when she was under the Cabal control but, clearly doesn't appear to be under their control in the picture. This could be, like you said, the neat thing that happens to her as AT said.

ljscott
October 18th, 2009, 07:13 PM
Firstly, I seem to remember Helen saying that John could bend dementional space, why not time as well....thats how he found ashley and magnus...so WHY can he not return to when Ashley was kidnapped and save her...

Secondly, kate freelander....um bad acting much? she is was over the top. And her voice. i mean...

Also, i agree with everyone else about her being able to survive being set on fire, torpedoed and stabbed...so why would an EM shield take her down?

Also, is anyone else sorely disappointed at the lack of emotion from Henry and Will even the big guy...the have supposedly know Ashley well, henry has, his entire life...i would think he would be a little bit torn up about her being killed...dont give me that tacky- She wasn't ashley anymore thing....I am just really disappointed at the lack or compassion from all of them. I don't get it.


Yeah I'm with you on that. I don't like the fact that it didn't seem to bother either of them at all. Henry and Biggie especially since they've known her forever.

I'm not looking forward to the next ep. Helen is trying to prove she's still alive, but I think we'll just have to go through the loss of Ashley again when she realizes that she's really dead. The pics of her are probably either a dream or hallucinations.

I did notice in the preview that Helen seems to have Ashley's necklace. Maybe John found it while he was getting his revenge on the Cabal.



Lisa

EvenstarSRV
October 18th, 2009, 07:19 PM
I wouldn't say that. Unscathed? She just presumably lost her daughter....that's pretty damn near to being wiped off! I think Helen's a lost a lot more than what may appear obvious.
I don't think Helen's come away unscathed at all. Sorry spaz...great to see you again but I don't agree with that sentiment!


I thought the dancer of spaz was referring to the other female characters (Ashley, Clara, Kate) being often used for quips and sexual tension, and that Helen was 'unscathed' in the sense that she's gotten to be and do so much more.


i think the emotional fallout will happen this friday

henry and will and biggie didn't even know what happened, much less react

as to druitt bending time and resetting things, lord i hope not. the 'go back in time and keep things from happening' is such a cheat and would make these last 3 episodes a waste

Yeah, the title and trailer suggest that Eulogy will be the fallout from End of Nights, cleaning up all the physical and emotional mess. We did get to see how torn up Henry was about Ashley in Part 1, and I'm sure will see fallout from Bigfoot now that he's back to normal.

I think the bending time reference to Druitt's power was just in the webisodes, I think in the series he can just bend space for the teleporting.

Chelle DB
October 18th, 2009, 07:49 PM
Uh, that wasn't Spazzy's point though
So more about the quips and sexual tension with the boys??
I dunno...Helen and Will with the Nubbins...Helen and John...Helen and Tesla (more so Tesla's fantasy though?).
As for quips...I'm out on that one! :)

SamJackShipper93
October 18th, 2009, 08:19 PM
So more about the quips and sexual tension with the boys??
I dunno...Helen and Will with the Nubbins...Helen and John...Helen and Tesla (more so Tesla's fantasy though?).
As for quips...I'm out on that one! :)

This bugs me to no end. Although I know that TPTB can change historical charcters and their personalities to fit their story, but in reality, Nikola Tesla was a self-proclaimed celibate. He always stated that his chastity was helpful to his scientific abilities, and so I find his feelings toward Helen extremely strange. :P

ann_sgcfan
October 18th, 2009, 08:45 PM
I definetley agree with what others have said. Ashley's suicide was anything but cowardice. It was everything about sacrifice. She was able to stop the last of the clones from attacking her mother. She elliminated the threat to the Sanctuary. She made sure that Helen wasn't the one faced with the impossible decision to kill her daughter. IMHO, none of these reasons are cowardly.


My point is there is nothing heroic about suicide! Suicide is looking around and deciding it's not worth it to live as she is anymore. That would be giving up. Life is hard! No one's life is a bed of roses. So if she died because she just couldn't live with all those abilities and the cabal having control over her. Then Ashley gave up and she didn't think Helen could save her. That's suicide - NOT heroic death.

IF You think she made a split second decision to leap into teleporting to save her mom (and using an analogy from Jan) like a secret service man does protecting a president. That would be dying in the line of duty. THAT's a heroic death. YES it really is all about the terminology. Is it a heroic death or suicide? It can't be both you have to decide which terminology to use and if you still think it's suicide and that suicide is heroic I will argue until the cows come home there is nothing heroic about suicide.

My passionate argument is with the terminology. The two words are very different in meaning.

On a side note - I also don't think she knew the Em shield was active, but there is no way of proving that opinion is correct or not correct. Trust me I have listened and pointed out the scenes for too long and Both sides make valid points but there is no way of proving one side is correct and one isn't.

Amalthea
October 18th, 2009, 09:17 PM
This bugs me to no end. Although I know that TPTB can change historical charcters and their personalities to fit their story, but in reality, Nikola Tesla was a self-proclaimed celibate. He always stated that his chastity was helpful to his scientific abilities, and so I find his feelings toward Helen extremely strange. :P

Maybe after 150+ years he got bored of it? LOL Plus, Helen is an extraordinary woman! :)

the dancer of spaz
October 18th, 2009, 09:30 PM
I wouldn't say that. Unscathed? She just presumably lost her daughter....that's pretty damn near to being wiped off! I think Helen's a lost a lot more than what may appear obvious.
I don't think Helen's come away unscathed at all. Sorry spaz...great to see you again but I don't agree with that sentiment!

:)


Hey Chelle! By "unscathed," I meant that her whole purpose as a character hasn't been deduced to smart-mouth remarks and sex appeal. Not that I ever worried that it would...

But yes, certainly the situation Helen is in right now lends itself the idea that she is scarred. I'm looking forward to seeing how she goes it, though. Should be good.

Chelle DB
October 18th, 2009, 09:34 PM
Hey Chelle! By "unscathed," I meant that her whole purpose as a character hasn't been deduced to smart-mouth remarks and sex appeal. Not that I ever worried that it would...

But yes, certainly the situation Helen is in right now lends itself the idea that she is scarred. I'm looking forward to seeing how she goes it, though. Should be good.

:zelenka25:

the dancer of spaz
October 18th, 2009, 09:37 PM
So more about the quips and sexual tension with the boys??
I dunno...Helen and Will with the Nubbins...Helen and John...Helen and Tesla (more so Tesla's fantasy though?).
As for quips...I'm out on that one! :)

Perhaps "relatively unscathed" is the best way to put it then. :) I agree, there have been moments that get dangerously close to cliche-ville, even with Helen. Nubbins was, by far, the worst. (And I was somewhat relieved/amused when AT said that was her least favorite episode.)

I just don't think Helen will ever be defined the way Kate, Clara and Ashley all have been to varying degrees - for a number of reasons.

kes
October 18th, 2009, 09:56 PM
Maybe Ash pulls a Dr Manhattan LOL
Spoiler/spec ep 3
She's smilling in the Eulogy trailer. It just doenst seem to fit the mood

badwolfSG
October 18th, 2009, 10:53 PM
As I have said on the SFA official website ... I can't see Ashley killing herself. That's the cowards way out, not to mention undermines everything I think about the character and Helen. It's also the main reason for a certain friendly debate between Jan and I on SFA site too. :) It would mean she had absolutely no faith in her mom's ability to save her (Helen - who has been searching and healing abnormals for two lifetimes). It would also mean Ashley didn't trust them, despite how quickly they came up with a weapon to stop the super soldiers. What does that say about Ashley's confidence in Helen and the Sanctuary?

Maybe it wasn't about killing herself but the other adnormal who was trying to kill Helena. Maybe she does have full confidence in her mom! Full confidence to bring her back from the dead. I'm just saying.

DigiFluid
October 19th, 2009, 01:40 AM
My point is there is nothing heroic about suicide! Suicide is looking around and deciding it's not worth it to live as she is anymore. That would be giving up. Life is hard! No one's life is a bed of roses. So if she died because she just couldn't live with all those abilities and the cabal having control over her. Then Ashley gave up and she didn't think Helen could save her. That's suicide - NOT heroic death.

IF You think she made a split second decision to leap into teleporting to save her mom (and using an analogy from Jan) like a secret service man does protecting a president. That would be dying in the line of duty. THAT's a heroic death. YES it really is all about the terminology. Is it a heroic death or suicide? It can't be both you have to decide which terminology to use and if you still think it's suicide and that suicide is heroic I will argue until the cows come home there is nothing heroic about suicide.

And herein your argument completely falls apart. Either she did it on purpose to save her mother, which is no different that jumping a bullet to save someone else--or she didn't know the EM shield was up and she took the other supermonster and tried to jump it away in order to save her mother.

Either way, heroic.

helenmagnus23
October 19th, 2009, 03:35 AM
I've been thinking that with the teleporting could it be possible to move out of phase ? could that be what has happend to Ash

Skydiver
October 19th, 2009, 04:08 AM
I don't define what ash did as suicide. it was, in my viewing, a deliberate act to neutralize a threat, the creature that was going to kill her mother, and the 'creature' within herself that had killed helpless abbys.

Ash 'coming out' seemed to suggest that she was a prisoner in her body. which means that she might have been conscious of her actions even as she was helpless to prevent it. she knew she couldn't control herself, and knew that she was capable of killing her mother. Remember, one of the priorities for the soldiers was to kill the house master of each sanctuary. so helen was on the hit list. and ash knew that. she knew that she and any others that survived were going to kill helen at any cost.

ash neutralized the threat, it just happened to not only be the creature she had her hands on, it was also herself.

AvatarIII
October 19th, 2009, 04:21 AM
gotta say quickly that this episode was brill, a big improvement over last week

best bits?
helen puttibng her foot down to the big guy! basically saying, here is the cure, use it or don't but if not you are dead to me.
tesla's electro powers (i assume that particular skill was only bought out by the source blood not caused by it)
all the fight scenes. especially druitt impaling ash, and then her surviving

things that made me :(
clara dying!! nooooo
no werewolf fights :( later in the season i hope
can't beleive ash sacrificed herself, but it helped bring the vamp count down a bit i guess

how many vamps are left? 2? or 3? ash and the chinese girl are gone, and one or 2 were killed by the beam weapon right?

jelgate
October 19th, 2009, 04:56 AM
Websters defines sucide as the voluntairly and intentional act of taking one's life. The problem is we have this negeative analogy with suicide. We tend to always associate it with the person who ended his/her life because they didn't want to live. But that is not always the case. People who sacrifice their lives to save others is definatly suicide. The difference is the meaning of the suicide. We aren't really going to question why Ashley killed herself because its obvious. It was to save her mother and her "family." This is quite difference then the sterotypical suicide people are use to because thier selfless reason behind it.

RealmOfX
October 19th, 2009, 04:57 AM
<snip>
how many vamps are left? 2? or 3? ash and the chinese girl are gone, and one or 2 were killed by the beam weapon right?

None (of the attacking force but The Cabal have the means to make others).

Helen killed three with the weapon and supposedly the other three died when they tried to teleport after the EM shield went back up

ann_sgcfan
October 19th, 2009, 05:35 AM
And herein your argument completely falls apart. Either she did it on purpose to save her mother, which is no different that jumping a bullet to save someone else--or she didn't know the EM shield was up and she took the other supermonster and tried to jump it away in order to save her mother.

Either way, heroic.

No my thoughts are she didn't know the EM field was up so she didn't know she was going to die, just escape to save her mom. That's my belief in what happens in the scene.

Now others are saying hey Suicide is cool and that's what she did.. Sorry Suicide is NEVER Cool and I will fight tooth and nail to explain in real life Suicide is NEVER EVER Cool. There is a difference in dying for a friend and choosing to die just for the sake of dying. IT's a big difference I was explaining the difference NOT THAT I BELIEVE THAT"S WHAT SHE DID.. Now if you want to argue she sacrificed herself over suicide feel free but I'm not your antagonist.

slurredspeech
October 19th, 2009, 05:41 AM
Now others are saying hey Suicide is cool...

C'mon. No one was saying that. I'm sorry because I feel that this is something perhaps personal to you and you feel strongly about it. But no one here was advocating or glorifying suicide as such. Those who believe Ashley knew the EM shield was back on (and since they could communicate telepathicaly, there's a chance she was aware of Henry's progress) were simply stating that the choice she made when she had so little of it recently -- putting her mother's life and the lives of her friends and all those that the Sanctuaries protect -- was indeed heroic.

ann_sgcfan
October 19th, 2009, 05:50 AM
C'mon. No one was saying that. I'm sorry because I feel that this is something perhaps personal to you and you feel strongly about it. But no one here was advocating or glorifying suicide as such. Those who believe Ashley knew the EM shield was back on (and since they could communicate telepathicaly, there's a chance she was aware of Henry's progress) were simply stating that the choice she made when she had so little of it recently -- putting her mother's life and the lives of her friends and all those that the Sanctuaries protect -- was indeed heroic.

I'm not your antagnoist you want to believe that go for it.

slurredspeech
October 19th, 2009, 05:51 AM
I'm not your antagnoist you want to believe that go for it.

I... know that. Um. What?

Sorry, just don't get how you got that from what I wrote...

ann_sgcfan
October 19th, 2009, 05:57 AM
I... know that. Um, what?

I'm just saying I'm not arguing against you. If you believe it was heroic ... cool. Believe that. I'm not standing in your way. And yes it's a topic I personally feel strongly about. Now the ones below my post and some above believe it was suicide... take it up with them. I'm not saying another word on the subject, because I don't believe her death was her choice. Have a good day.

RealmOfX
October 19th, 2009, 05:58 AM
No my thoughts are she didn't know the EM field was up so she didn't know she was going to die, just escape to save her mom. That's my belief in what happens in the scene.

Now others are saying hey Suicide is cool and that's what she did.. Sorry Suicide is NEVER Cool and I will fight tooth and nail to explain in real life Suicide is NEVER EVER Cool. There is a difference in dying for a friend and choosing to die just for the sake of dying. IT's a big difference I was explaining the difference NOT THAT I BELIEVE THAT"S WHAT SHE DID.. Now if you want to argue she sacrificed herself over suicide feel free but I'm not your antagonist.

Actually the literal definition of suicide is the taking or ending of one's own life (as was pointed out before). Even if you choose to end your life for the good of others it is still technically suicide. The crunch point with arguments comes with some people using suicide to define a death with negative connotations only and choose to label other deaths as heroic or a sacrifice and will not call it suicide even though technically it is.

I haven't seen anyone here put forward that Ashley gave up, decided life was too hard and ended it. What I have seen is people say that she sacrificed herself. So aren't most people really on the same page?? and the point of contention is a different use of the word suicide? (As in a literal meaning versus a societal "bad" connotation)

EvenstarSRV
October 19th, 2009, 06:02 AM
Websters defines sucide as the voluntairly and intentional act of taking one's life. The problem is we have this negeative analogy with suicide. We tend to always associate it with the person who ended his/her life because they didn't want to live. But that is not always the case. People who sacrifice their lives to save others is definatly suicide. The difference is the meaning of the suicide. We aren't really going to question why Ashley killed herself because its obvious. It was to save her mother and her "family." This is quite difference then the sterotypical suicide people are use to because thier selfless reason behind it.

This is how I see the issue. Strictly defined, suicide is voluntarily taken one's own life, for any reason, and it's then we as people or society who generally give it a negative connotation because those who commit suicide are often perceived do it for selfish reasons.

If Ashley did know that the EM shield was up when she teleported, then using the literal interpretation I would say that she did commit suicide, she voluntarily took her own life, but it was for a heroic and selfless reason for saving her mom, not because she just wanted to end her own life.

RE SGU Air

It's rather like I believe the Senator committed suicide by going into that shuttle, but he did it for the selfless reason of saving everyone on the Destiny, not just to end his own life.

If she didn't know that the shield was back up, then she was acting to save her mom while she still had control, and her likely death while teleporting was an unfortunate result of that heroic act.

I think it just comes down to how you define 'suicide', do you take the literal/objective definition, or the commonly accepted connotation of it. Sacrifice and suicide are two side of the same coin IMO, it just comes down to the reasons for the act.

EDIT: What Realm said, much better than I did.

RiaDejaVu
October 19th, 2009, 07:10 AM
Okay did SyFy use all it's CGI budget on SGU because normally this show has great CGI and tonight it was painfully obvious that they were on green screen, like it wasn't even trying to blend them in. It really took me out of the story to be honest. This looked like CGI/Actor blending from ten years ago.

Anyone else notice how bad it was?

I noticed that too - especially in the scene with Declan in London. Magnus looked funny with the group - like someone didn't quite finish up the CGI effects or something!

allfornot
October 19th, 2009, 09:32 AM
But they weren't seen in the few seconds after Ashley zapped out and the end of the episode ...

no no im talking about before when Helen was using that laser thingy.....they were not a bit affected.

and what is everyone arguing about? Suicide is NOT cool....and i dont think anyone is saying that...however it is clear that ashley knew she would die...you can see it in her face right before she does it. She was preparing herself. Even so, she did it to save her mom.

SciFiGeek17
October 19th, 2009, 01:33 PM
as to druitt bending time and resetting things, lord i hope not. the 'go back in time and keep things from happening' is such a cheat and would make these last 3 episodes a waste

I agree! With all the shock and high emotion there is in the first 2 episodes, it would be really lame if druitt just time traveled! If Ashley is alive! I want to see a really good twist!



I don't define what ash did as suicide. it was, in my viewing, a deliberate act to neutralize a threat, the creature that was going to kill her mother, and the 'creature' within herself that had killed helpless abbys.

Ash 'coming out' seemed to suggest that she was a prisoner in her body. which means that she might have been conscious of her actions even as she was helpless to prevent it. she knew she couldn't control herself, and knew that she was capable of killing her mother. Remember, one of the priorities for the soldiers was to kill the house master of each sanctuary. so helen was on the hit list. and ash knew that. she knew that she and any others that survived were going to kill helen at any cost.

ash neutralized the threat, it just happened to not only be the creature she had her hands on, it was also herself.

To me it looked like Magnus was able to get through to her daughter, but right when she went from looking emotional to seriously neutral, I think she lost control of it(brainwashing).

sandra-carter
October 19th, 2009, 02:06 PM
no no im talking about before when Helen was using that laser thingy.....they were not a bit affected.

and what is everyone arguing about? Suicide is NOT cool....and i dont think anyone is saying that...however it is clear that ashley knew she would die...you can see it in her face right before she does it. She was preparing herself. Even so, she did it to save her mom.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

yeah this is true ashley was preparing to die, I think she knew that the EM shield was turned on .. she knew that to save the network of sanctuaries, the team, and especially her mother, she had to give up her life ..

Helen knew what she would do so she begged her, because ashley was back to her normal state !

poor helen I was struck in the last scene, she was crying desperate not knowing what to do.

I read somewhere that the third episode will be to resolve the situation, hopefully they do not kill the ashley.. I think "Eulogy" will be exciting ... I can not wait a week to see ..you still see on Friday but I can only see on Saturday because of time zones .ewww ...
be good

:sam:

Aurora24
October 19th, 2009, 02:49 PM
If the super soldiers created by the Cabal were linked in some way, and at least a telepathic link was suggested during the ep, then Ashley may have felt the first guy who teleported after the EM shield was back up get vaporized. In that case she did know what was happening and the consequences of what she was about to do. My opinion is that she chose to sacrifice herself, and take out the other super soldier, because she didn't think she could control herself and she didn't want to hurt her family.

Eternal Density
October 19th, 2009, 04:55 PM
...Have a good day.<snip....Look, guys, Ann has some very definite opinions on the matter, let's respect them please and not take her to task for them. Agree to disagree>

In my opinion, what Ashley did was self-sacrifice in order to save her mother, and that is a very noble thing.

Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

On a lighter note, I recognised the music that plays as Team Super Ashley attacks the Tokyo Sanctuary (starting just before they appear and jump through the glass, ending when they land) from the game Half Life. Though it may not be original to Half Life.
[edit] If you don't know what I'm talking about, you can hear the Half Life soundtrack here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLwmLtuvVcI).
[edit]Further research reveals the music is Adrenaline Horror by Kelly Bailey and it also appears in South Park season 8 episode 14, "Woodland Critter Christmas", not that I've seen it.

Inward Wind
October 19th, 2009, 06:29 PM
I just finished watching it again. Two things I noticed this time:

1) Henry comes on the radio before Kate gets Helen off the floor to let her know that the EM shield is up and they wouldn't be able to teleport. I'm sure that Ashley and gang heard the same thing and therefore, Ashley knew what would happen when she teleported.

2) When Henry gets the EM shield up, he starts to relay the above information to Helen before he actually gets the radio out of pocket. Error in editing I guess :).

Mack_1
October 19th, 2009, 09:15 PM
I just finished watching it again. Two things I noticed this time:

1) Henry comes on the radio before Kate gets Helen off the floor to let her know that the EM shield is up and they wouldn't be able to teleport. I'm sure that Ashley and gang heard the same thing and therefore, Ashley knew what would happen when she teleported.

Didn’t Ashley was out of phase when Henry gave the announcement?

If I remember correctly she had just been shoot to pieces with the honking rocking thingy Kate had, then we see Bigfoot fighting the “super soldier” and Henry telling Magnus and Druitt the EM was in place, then we see Kate hauling Magnus from the floor when the other “soldier” gets there kicking Kate out of the way and trying to get to Magnus.

She is about to strike Helen when Ashley’s hand appear and stops the Asian girl from attacking mom, so to me even if they had telepathic communication, Ahs didn’t heard the announcement but she did knew something would happen to her, the real Ashley was there and she did what she thought was the right thing to do before “evil” Ashley make and appearance again.

On the matter about the guys not been to emotional about what was to happen to Ash, we saw Henry telling Magnus with a really sad face the they were behind her and they supported her actions at what she would have to do.

Will, had the talk on the roof with her and you can tell also how he is struggling to say the right words, though they came out all wrong.

Bigfoot also show his concern when he desired to inject himself with the cure renouncing to his preview decision of not taking the cure; last episode Henry told him about Ashley and how the situation was and probably what actions would have be taken; so he injecting himself shows to me that he care and he wanted to do something to help either Magnus or Ashley

Mousie
October 20th, 2009, 12:06 AM
That was an amazing episode, I wasn't going to watch it last night as I had to get up really early today, I was going to watch when I got home tonight but I caved and watched last night. I'm glad I did.

The acting was amazing especially Emilie and Amanda. Emilie really managed to portray a lot with only a few changes in facial expression.

I agree that Henry had more important things to do keeping control of the computers and then gettign them running again that join the fight in his wolf form.

It was nice to see real footage of London this time rather than last weeks so not Essex! :)

I thought the split screen worked better this episode but hope it doesn't get used too much more.

I wonder if any of the Sanctuary's are still useable or if they would use them again. It looked like London wasn't too badly damaged (a little fire damage in the main room! but a lick of paint.....) as they did manage to drive them off from it.

You'd have to think that Dana would be seriously worried now, they took out all of her super soldiers and are going to be seriously looking for her now!

Roll on next Monday!

dosed150
October 20th, 2009, 01:45 AM
tesla's electro powers (i assume that particular skill was only bought out by the source blood not caused by it)


i thought he just ripped a power cable off the wall and smashed a water pipe

Mousie
October 20th, 2009, 02:04 AM
He did in EoN2 but he does have some control over electricity, as seen in The Five and in the fact that they can survive being subjected to that much voltage.

KaKaCarter
October 20th, 2009, 04:36 AM
Loved both parts of the season 2 premiere. First off Amanda is brilliant as Magnus, really believably playing an superbly sculpted character. I'm really happy that there's a show out there that is delivering great characterisation with great storytelling.

I'd be amazed if Ashley gone for good. Hopefully she'll just be gone for an episode or two while we get to see Magnus in grief.
I liked how they played Clara's death. They played the giddy loved up bit and then
If ashley's death was so full of drama and purpose, clara's was the other side. An afterthought, off camera only really meaning anything to will. Loved the way the super soldier turned back and just the underplayed sense of whoops, she's not quite so invisible as she thought. Motre interested in seeing will's portrayal than i would otherwsie have been through clara's death.

Tesla and druitt are such great additions to the cast and i really hope they are regularly in it this season. Interested to see what they do with freelander character. She needs some proper story time so that we can get a hang of who she really is.

Never really noticed if there was weak cgi, i guess i was too hooked up in the story. Did notice the dodgy gun but happy to overlook and just follow quality acting.

EH-T
October 20th, 2009, 08:22 AM
Heart-wrenching episode.

As always, loved snarky Tesla, especially the line "stop bothering me".

Wonderful scene with Helen and Bigfoot. It was something I felt was missing from episode 1 but waiting only made it a more powerful scene. Very fitting he waited until his help was needed to take the cure.

Another fabulous scene between Helen and John at the elevator. Those two together are pure magic.

I'm not sorry to see Clara go. Given the seriousness of the situation I felt her initial behaviour was so self-centered and out of line. I also admit I'm not a fan of the naked woman constantly showing up on screen. DK writes such powerful female characters that this was really a step backwards for women on scifi IMO.

While we could see it coming, it was still nice to see Kate join the fight.

Loved operation Exxon Valez. Very cool effect. However, I have to admit that the effects did not look so great when characters were running around. On those occasions it was quite obvious it was a CG background. Took me out of the story a bit.

I loved the return to the top of the Sanctuary for Will and Helen. Nice scene.

I once again thought EU did a fabulous job, especially in the fight with John and the final scenes with Helen. I REALLY hope that her absence is only temporary. I think the show loses a very important element without Ashley and what great potential now for the character to have to deal with what was done to her.

Could Henry be more adorable? Lovely scene with Helen in the lab. This is tied for my favourite Sanctuary scene ever because this is one of the scenes they were filming during our tour.

Finally, a word about the amazing AT. A very emotional episode for her and she played every scene spot on, some of which I've commented on above. Again, the scene at the end was completely heart-wrenching. I love how this was written that Helen makes the decision that she has to kill Ashley to protect the others but, in the end, can't do it. I'm so glad she didn't. What makes AT's performance even more impressive for me is the fact that we had the opportunity to meet her during filming for part of this episode. Now I know how emotional it was for the character in the first two eps and what lead up to the scenes we saw, one can't help but admire how she can be joking with us a lunch one moment, nail the emotion of the scene with Henry the next and then take us off on a tour. Amazing. I'm glad she's not a method actor or lunch would have been he** )

jckfan55
October 20th, 2009, 09:02 AM
Haven't watched enough of Supernatural to comment on that part, but I'm inclined to agree with your point. I don't know what it is, but most of the time, the young female characters seem to be written as these cliché hardcore smartbum flippantly cool girls with a dry and/or cute remark ready at all times. It's not just the physical resemblance that made Kate and Clara interchangable to me.

Yes, interchangeable is a good way to put it.





Aand I wouldn't mind if they decided to leave the show ship-less or UST only. What I wouldn't like seeing is too much ship, where everyone gets coupled up. Or Helen getting coupled up with everyone. It just wouldn't do much for the show, IMHO.
Me too. Particularly if what we get for a love interest for Will is along the lines we've seen. And I don't see Helen getting involved with anyone any time soon. though I wouldn't mind flashbacks to her & Druitt and/or other love interests of the past--if it fit well with a story.

jckfan55
October 20th, 2009, 09:14 AM
And herein your argument completely falls apart. Either she did it on purpose to save her mother, which is no different that jumping a bullet to save someone else--or she didn't know the EM shield was up and she took the other supermonster and tried to jump it away in order to save her mother.

Either way, heroic.

that was my reading of the situation. I read the expression on her face as her making a deliberate decision to save her mother--one way or the other.

ann_sgcfan
October 20th, 2009, 09:40 AM
that was my reading of the situation. I read the expression on her face as her making a deliberate decision to save her mother--one way or the other.

I've said all along she left to save her mom. I don't think anyone disputes that, just whether or not she knew the field was up or not.

RealmOfX
October 20th, 2009, 11:54 AM
I've said all along she left to save her mom. I don't think anyone disputes that, just whether or not she knew the field was up or not.

There's no way she wouldn't have known. The other vamp knew and therefore she would have known.

EvenstarSRV
October 20th, 2009, 11:57 AM
Could Henry be more adorable? Lovely scene with Helen in the lab. This is tied for my favourite Sanctuary scene ever because this is one of the scenes they were filming during our tour.

Finally, a word about the amazing AT. A very emotional episode for her and she played every scene spot on, some of which I've commented on above. Again, the scene at the end was completely heart-wrenching. I love how this was written that Helen makes the decision that she has to kill Ashley to protect the others but, in the end, can't do it. I'm so glad she didn't. What makes AT's performance even more impressive for me is the fact that we had the opportunity to meet her during filming for part of this episode. Now I know how emotional it was for the character in the first two eps and what lead up to the scenes we saw, one can't help but admire how she can be joking with us a lunch one moment, nail the emotion of the scene with Henry the next and then take us off on a tour. Amazing. I'm glad she's not a method actor or lunch would have been he** )

How cool you got to see that scene being filmed as well!


I've said all along she left to save her mom. I don't think anyone disputes that, just whether or not she knew the field was up or not.

I think the sequence of events happened so quickly, from Kate shooting Ashley to Ashley jumping away, that until we get clarification from DK or EU or someone, I think you can go either way of whether Ashley knew the shield was up or not.

ann_sgcfan
October 20th, 2009, 12:06 PM
I think the sequence of events happened so quickly, from Kate shooting Ashley to Ashley jumping away, that until we get clarification from DK or EU or someone, I think you can go either way of whether Ashley knew the shield was up or not.

Yes I completely agree! So whether people believe she knew or people believe she didn't know - both sides have merit and have reasons for their opinion. There is no proof, no facts to back it up, just assumptions on what we think happened. So there are no wrong answers at this point until, like you said, we talk to the writer or the actor and they clarify.

SamJackShipper93
October 20th, 2009, 02:51 PM
I guess we know what Christine Chatelain will be doing now that Clara's gone:

Stargate vets headline Riese Web series (http://www.gateworld.net/news/2009/10/stargate-vets-headline-riese-web-series/)

Ryan Robbins (Henry) is in it as well.

Inward Wind
October 20th, 2009, 06:28 PM
Yes I completely agree! So whether people believe she knew or people believe she didn't know - both sides have merit and have reasons for their opinion. There is no proof, no facts to back it up, just assumptions on what we think happened. So there are no wrong answers at this point until, like you said, we talk to the writer or the actor and they clarify.

Yes, I think most everything we talk about on here is speculation because we don't actually know what is going on :). I was saying before that I thought that Ashley might know the shield was up because Henry had came across the radio stating that it was up before she teleported. He was telling Helen this. Helen didn't have a radio but from the way Henry's voice sounded it seemed as though he came across a speaker somewhere in the sanctuary. If this were the case, then everyone in the building would have heard it, including the soldier that tried to kill Helen. If the soldier and Ashley had telepathic ability, then Ashley would have known, too, even if she was out of commission at the time. But, of course this is just what I think happened. :)

NurseFG
October 20th, 2009, 07:15 PM
this episode was amazing i watched it while i was at school and almost cried in front of my whole english class during the last scene lol

WishIwasJoes
October 20th, 2009, 07:31 PM
I guess we know what Christine Chatelain will be doing now that Clara's gone:

Stargate vets headline Riese Web series (http://www.gateworld.net/news/2009/10/stargate-vets-headline-riese-web-series/)

Ryan Robbins (Henry) is in it as well.

Sounds a bit out there! But I hope it works for her. She is a very gifted actress. :)

After watching the end of season one and then the start of season two I am wondering why Henry's tampering has not been dealt with. He was poked with needles too and then they leave him alone to "save" ashley"

I have to say I found it really annoying and weak writing that the ONE location Kate Freelander knew of was where Ashely was waiting for Helen and her crew. (The Cabal are always one step ahead!) For real how far ahead can the Cabal be without some one from inside the Sanctuary telling her everything that is going on. Either some one is a doubt agent or its just too much of a strech in writing. :mckay:

Unless Dana has a crystal ball or is an abnormal herself, that would be funny, and can see the future, I find the whole chess game that is going on way too one sided for the minds of the five verse the Cabal.

slurredspeech
October 20th, 2009, 07:38 PM
I have to say I found it really annoying and weak writing that the ONE location Kate Freelander knew of was where Ashely was waiting for Helen and her crew. (The Cabal are always one step ahead!) For real how far ahead can the Cabal be without some one from inside the Sanctuary telling her everything that is going on. Either some one is a doubt agent or its just too much of a strech in writing. :mckay:

Unless Dana has a crystal ball or is an abnormal herself, that would be funny, and can see the future, I find the whole chess game that is going on way too one sided for the minds of the five verse the Cabal.

I was thinking that the Cabal must have let Kate get away on purpose (because, as someone else pointed out on another thread, how on earth did she get away with the dot on her before she even had the chance to exit the car) and use her as the unsuspecting pawn, of sorts.

How they knew she'd seek sanctaury in the sanctuary? Perhaps they knew she had nowhere else to go, and that Helen wouldn't kill her? And, Kate being Kate and changing sides when it suits her, would devulge the info she knew to get on Helen's good side?

Eh. That's a lot of 'perhaps', I know. Perhaps! It will be revealed in the next episode. ;)

EvenstarSRV
October 20th, 2009, 07:40 PM
After watching the end of season one and then the start of season two I am wondering why Henry's tampering has not been dealt with. He was poked with needles too and then they leave him alone to "save" ashley"

He didn't faint like Ashley did in Revelations, so I guess they assumed he was ok. Plus I'd wager Helen checked him out after what happened to Ashley, just to be safe.



I have to say I found it really annoying and weak writing that the ONE location Kate Freelander knew of was where Ashely was waiting for Helen and her crew. (The Cabal are always one step ahead!) For real how far ahead can the Cabal be without some one from inside the Sanctuary telling her everything that is going on. Either some one is a doubt agent or its just too much of a strech in writing. :mckay:


I think they showed Will spotting some sort of motion detector at that warehouse, so that's probably how the Cabal knew Helen and the others were there, so they sent in Ashley.

What puzzled me was how Dana was able to get video feeds from inside the London Sanctuary, unless the Cabal is just that good at hacking their systems.

slurredspeech
October 20th, 2009, 07:46 PM
I think they showed Will spotting some sort of motion detector at that warehouse,...

Oooh! That was a motion detector? Right, then.


What puzzled me was how Dana was able to get video feeds from inside the London Sanctuary, unless the Cabal is just that good at hacking their systems.

Ditto.

It would have made more sense had it been shown as a POV picture (i.e. if one or all of the Super Soldiers were wearing a small camera somewhere).

shel
October 20th, 2009, 07:52 PM
Unless Dana has a crystal ball or is an abnormal herself, that would be funny, and can see the future, I find the whole chess game that is going on way too one sided for the minds of the five verse the Cabal.

:indeed: I totally agree

Gater_Gurl
October 20th, 2009, 08:43 PM
I can't wait for next week's episode. I was too shocked at the end to cry. My heart kind of skipped a beat and I can't get that last scene out of my head.

Amalthea
October 20th, 2009, 09:11 PM
I just watched it again tonight with my dad (he missed it Friday). I found my heart racing as we got to the end of it, knowing what was coming. It's still so shocking.

I think people with the teleporting ability can sense the EM shield. Otherwise Druitt would have been dusted long ago in his quest to get at Helen.

helenmagnus23
October 21st, 2009, 02:53 AM
From the scene's i have been able to see so far this eps has blown me away :) I have the end scene on my mob and everytime i watch it i cry it's hard to watch at times I have to say AT and EU done so well with that and i loved the Helen and John bit there boath hurting becase of the cabal and John's trying not to loose it so they boath help Ash that would be very hard to do .

I loved the Nubbin i love those little guy's :)

Skydiver
October 21st, 2009, 04:08 AM
with dana's knowledge and the apparent non-tampering of henry....maybe one explains the other?

she DID tamper with Henry, and he's the 'double agent', only he doesn't know it.

ddc
October 21st, 2009, 04:48 AM
He didn't faint like Ashley did in Revelations, so I guess they assumed he was ok. Plus I'd wager Helen checked him out after what happened to Ashley, just to be safe.

From what I remember their intention seemed to be to speed up the process of Henry turning into a werewolf while making him unable to revert to his human form. Helen would have gotten him back on the meds that let him control when his other side comes out.


What puzzled me was how Dana was able to get video feeds from inside the London Sanctuary, unless the Cabal is just that good at hacking their systems.

Hacked into their systems?

Linda06
October 21st, 2009, 08:07 AM
Watched this on Monday night and...WOW...What an ep. If the rest of the season is as good as this then i'll be a happy camper :)

But poor Ashley :( So when she tried to teleport away did she blow up.

To me it looked like she knew what she was doing, she thought it was the only way. Either way the next few eps should be interesting, seeing how Helen copes with this.

EvenstarSRV
October 21st, 2009, 08:45 AM
with dana's knowledge and the apparent non-tampering of henry....maybe one explains the other?

she DID tamper with Henry, and he's the 'double agent', only he doesn't know it.

Oh, that could be a neat twist.



Hacked into their systems?

Well, they were able to hack into the Sanctuary's systems from Will's cellphone, though that seems a bit dodgy, so I guess I can see them being able to get into the London Sanctuary's systems in a similar way to get the video feeds.

Ian-S
October 22nd, 2009, 06:24 AM
A way they could keep Ash alive?

Ashley could have said to the others "let's get out of here" (telepathically) and while they teleported out the building to dust through the EM shield, she teleported to another part of the building and walked out the back door - thus surviving it to come back later down the line?

Linda06
October 22nd, 2009, 06:38 AM
A way they could keep Ash alive?

Ashley could have said to the others "let's get out of here" (telepathically) and while they teleported out the building to dust through the EM shield, she teleported to another part of the building and walked out the back door - thus surviving it to come back later down the line?

Didn't we see her go POOF when she teleported?

Skydiver
October 22nd, 2009, 06:51 AM
i'm afraid the EM damper works no matter where you teleport within its range

jckfan55
October 22nd, 2009, 09:26 AM
i'm afraid the EM damper works no matter where you teleport within its range

I don't want to hear that. :( I want Ashley to survive.

Skydiver
October 22nd, 2009, 10:04 AM
i think she will

remember, she can regenerate her body like crazy. she survived a point blank hit from an RPG

WishIwasJoes
October 22nd, 2009, 12:34 PM
He didn't faint like Ashley did in Revelations, so I guess they assumed he was ok. Plus I'd wager Helen checked him out after what happened to Ashley, just to be safe.



I think they showed Will spotting some sort of motion detector at that warehouse, so that's probably how the Cabal knew Helen and the others were there, so they sent in Ashley.

What puzzled me was how Dana was able to get video feeds from inside the London Sanctuary, unless the Cabal is just that good at hacking their systems.


Oh yeah about the Camera's my husband said the same thing. All i could tell him was eh its TV! lol

shel
October 22nd, 2009, 02:19 PM
I just watched this over again and that last scene with Helen sitting on the floor crying gets me every time.:( I doubt watching that scene is going to get old. Amanda did some amazing acting here! This is definitley one of my favorite episodes. :)

jckfan55
October 22nd, 2009, 03:25 PM
:indeed: It's just heartbreaking.

kes
October 23rd, 2009, 01:00 AM
Oh, that could be a neat twist.



Well, they were able to hack into the Sanctuary's systems from Will's cellphone, though that seems a bit dodgy, so I guess I can see them being able to get into the London Sanctuary's systems in a similar way to get the video feeds.

The dude thats with Dana says something like we tapped into their security sistems or whatever. To explain why they had fotage from the London Sanctuary.

EDIT:
Tonight is THE Night! Actually for me its more like tomorrow morning LOL

Linda06
October 23rd, 2009, 04:40 AM
EDIT:
Tonight is THE Night! Actually for me its more like tomorrow morning LOL

And Monday night is the night for some of us :p

RealmOfX
October 23rd, 2009, 04:43 AM
And Monday night is the night for some of us :p

and Saturday arvo for some ;)

jelgate
October 23rd, 2009, 05:38 AM
Its usually Saturday morning for me:P

WishIwasJoes
October 23rd, 2009, 06:47 AM
I hope we find keep hope alive for ashely in the up coming shows!

shel
October 23rd, 2009, 03:14 PM
I hope we find keep hope alive for ashely in the up coming shows!

:indeed: I agree, I really want to believe that Ashley is alive somehow and that she will be brought back. So yes, keeping hope alive for sure! :)

kes
October 25th, 2009, 09:50 AM
Someone mentioned, not sure if it was in this thread, that at the end when Ash ports and goes boom it looks like the flames spell bye. After watching several times, it really does LOL

Mousie
October 27th, 2009, 07:21 AM
I'm not sure what it spells because to me it looked like 4 letters, with the second one being a 'u'.

Low-Ki 666
September 2nd, 2010, 04:57 PM
i just finished that episode a few mins ago and its sucks big time that Ashley is gone..and im also not a fan of the new actor in to replace her i just think she trying to hard to fill Ashley place..

rockstarsister
September 12th, 2010, 04:36 PM
the first time I watched it I cried my eyes out and everytime I watch it I cry like crazy it's *wipes eyes cries again*

Parallel Reality
September 22nd, 2010, 07:33 PM
i just finished that episode a few mins ago and its sucks big time that Ashley is gone..and im also not a fan of the new actor in to replace her i just think she trying to hard to fill Ashley place..

Yeah I have to agree. I liked Ashley and am not really a fan of Kate.

Procrastination
January 1st, 2011, 02:52 AM
I can't believe she is gone :(
I cried after watching this ep... RIP Ashley

Procrastination
January 1st, 2011, 03:21 AM
I couldnt stop crying at the end of this episode. :(
this is almost as awful as when james dies

Elorendil
July 20th, 2011, 01:16 PM
I can't believe they killed Ashley off. I figured they were going to find away to turn her back into Ashley, just with extra butt-kicking powers. I can't believe she is gone! I'm very sad. I agree with the above comments on Kate, I'm not a big fan of her. I have a feeling she may grow on me with time and as her character develops (hopefully developing away from the self-centered snob she is now...).

Skydiver
August 29th, 2012, 05:18 PM
EON2

The sanctuary network takes a major hit with the cabal attacking tokyo, moscow, new delhi and eventually london and old city
magnus is more ticked than we've ever seen her as she realizes just how off guard she's been caught. not just losing ashley, but then to realize that she's totally flat footed for the whole thing.

first she demands that nikola make a non-lethal way to stop ash, then relents and realizes that she has to go for lethal, especially after several abnormals, among them Clara, are killed by the cabal.

she resolves the biggie dilemma by simply giving him the choice...giving him the syringe and saying 'this is the last time you'll see me'.
Kate ends up proving herself by keeping ash from killing helen and we end with Ash, using what little control she has, to zort, killing herself to save her mom and the sanctuary.

JanSam
August 30th, 2012, 07:22 PM
This episode was so powerful that I still love it. Helen, Biggie and Kate all having to examine their actions and then having to make a very hard decisions. The ending leaves us wondering what the hell they do next and how they will deal with the emotional fall out.

escyos
June 27th, 2013, 04:03 AM
A little before 8 minutes in you hear Henry's ringtone - I'm fairly sure it is music from Metal Gear Solid, Sniper Fox's tune.