Enough with the killing already

[Bebbe777]

I have discovered a very disturbing trend. Most of you know it already but for those who don't, stop reading here!

!!!SPOILER!!!

First they kill off Ford, a characther I really liked because he was young, curious and about the same age as I am so I could relate to him.

Then Beckett dies, our beloved scottish gentleman who always shed light in the very dark episodes.

Then Weir gets killed, I mean, talk about cutting of the head of the dragon.

And then they managed to kill of Dr. Heightmeyer (a minor characther but still a face we know)

Now, the last three died withing just a couple of episodes. Seems like we have a bunch of sadistic writers who enjoys killing off characthers. What happened to good episodes where everyone managed to stay alive and having a good laugh about it.

Yeah, I know this is old news but I started watching SGA a few months ago and are now on S03. I just felt to vent abit.

[kymeric]

On sg1 they only killed people when they ran out of money, notice as time went on and the big names got more expensive the supporting characters started to die off. I much prefer the atlantis method of noones safe. We all KNEW sg1 would make it home at the end of the day (or 2 parter). Atlantis had the feeling anyone could die at any time for any reason, something a show NEEDS imho. Otherwise who cares? If theres no risk, nothing they do matters.

[Jump237]

I thought it was the BSG effect. SGA got really dark all of a sudden. I called it "Battlestar Atlantis" in the last season.

[Pianomancuber]

I don't really think that the writers just were like "hey, let's kill so-and-so". It's probably more politics and the like. I know a few were because the actors wanted to pursue other venues (I think Frasier is an example). Also I kinda liked the idea that anybody could die. Sometimes sci-fi shows get boring because the heroes always survive ridiculous circumstances and the minor/nonentities get knocked off every other episode. Killing a few main characters gives it a fresh unexpected air.

Plus it's science fiction. There's always a way to bring someone back from the dead. (Martouf, Frasier, Beckett, Weir-ish, Apophis...., Daniel )

[Inquisitor]

I was saddened when they killed Heightmeyer.

But did anyone find it ironic her name predicted her death (in her dream)?
Or her main fear?

[fumblesmcstupid]

I think with the un-necessary killing of Carson and Elizabeth add the frequent change of chain of command IMO was one of the nails in the coffin of enjoyment for me.

Too much change can be bad for some people to assimilate and that is bad.

[Phenom]

I have discovered a very disturbing trend. Most of you know it already but for those who don't, stop reading here!

!!!SPOILER!!!

First they kill off Ford, a characther I really liked because he was young, curious and about the same age as I am so I could relate to him.

Then Beckett dies, our beloved scottish gentleman who always shed light in the very dark episodes.

Then Weir gets killed, I mean, talk about cutting of the head of the dragon.

And then they managed to kill of Dr. Heightmeyer (a minor characther but still a face we know)

Now, the last three died withing just a couple of episodes. Seems like we have a bunch of sadistic writers who enjoys killing off characthers. What happened to good episodes where everyone managed to stay alive and having a good laugh about it.

Yeah, I know this is old news but I started watching SGA a few months ago and are now on S03. I just felt to vent abit.

Lisa Simpson: You really want to nuke the whales?
Nelson: Gotta nuke something.

The writers have to write something to keep things interesting, why not kill someone off to spice things up.

[SeaBee]

It's time for the saying...
"No-one dies in Sci-Fi"

What once was dead can always be undead.

[Pianomancuber]

I think with the un-necessary killing of Carson and Elizabeth add the frequent change of chain of command IMO was one of the nails in the coffin of enjoyment for me.

Too much change can be bad for some people to assimilate and that is bad.

I see your point. I did get pretty upset when Carson died (fortunately I was watching it on dvd so I only had to wait a few weeks to get him back!) and a little bit when they got rid of Weir. But I did like Sam as an addition to the crew. I REALLY wish she could have stayed for S5. At first I was pretty p***ed that Woolsey was going to lead. I never really liked him but I did learn to tolerate him.

Hey, at least the episodes where they kill people are usually phenomenal! Sunday is one of my all time favorites. I was legitimately sad by the end. Would it be weird if I said my eyes even watered a little?

[Infinite-Possibilities]

Lisa Simpson: You really want to nuke the whales?
Nelson: Gotta nuke something.

The writers have to write something to keep things interesting, why not kill someone off to spice things up.

With some of the deaths that might have worked fine, however others seriously harmed the dynamic of the show. And moreover, some just weren't done that well.

[SeaBee]

In Heightmeyer's case she died because the writers needed to show the entity was dangerous, not just inconvenient.
Otherwise it's just a bunch of people having bad dreams. But show somebody killed by the shock and suddenly there is peril introduced.

[katikatnik]

I don't like the killing of characters on shows either. The fact that our people survive doesn't mean that there's no danger. Danger can be shown by other means than killing off characters - but you have to actually be a good writer. Pulling the plug on a character is a crutch, nothing more.

Take Sunday - Gero was all, what a boring ep, we need to introduce some danger, thrill, ergo let's kill Carson. Take Weir - oh well, we don't know where to go with the character, she can't grow anymore the way she's now, let's kill her off. Doppleganger - the creature is not dangerous enough, let's kill Heightmeyer. As I said, a crutch. Instead of putting their brain cells on fire, they just kill a character *shakes head*

When they killed Weir, I tried to understand that, but as much as I loved Carter on SG-1, she was totally unnecessary on SGA - they already had one resident genius and her presence downgraded McKay's importance for Atlantis. I liked Woolsey much better. I learned to actually love him pretty quickly. I think it was Ghost in the Machine that totally won me over. Or maybe his yorkie?

[malfunction]

I was fine with the killing off the characters they chose, I was jst annoyed when they kept coming back from the dead. TPTB take the 'no one ever dies in sci-fi far too literally.' The return of Weir was believable but it felt cheap once they had to re-cast her, so there was little point. The cloning of Carson was always stupid. How did Michael give the clone all of Carson's knowledge and memories?

Michael was only interrogating Carson for a short time in 'Misbegotten.' He had none of his Wraith technology to copy Carson's mind, so it would have been impossible for him to do this.

The Runner in 'Tracker' could so easily have been Ford, which would have been interesting. The Wraith would surely consider him worthy of hunting, with or without the enzyme he would prove to be a challenge.

[Atlantis Rocks]

I don't like the killing of characters on shows either. The fact that our people survive doesn't mean that there's no danger. Danger can be shown by other means than killing off characters - but you have to actually be a good writer. Pulling the plug on a character is a crutch, nothing more.

Take Sunday - Gero was all, what a boring ep, we need to introduce some danger, thrill, ergo let's kill Carson. Take Weir - oh well, we don't know where to go with the character, she can't grow anymore the way she's now, let's kill her off. Doppleganger - the creature is not dangerous enough, let's kill Heightmeyer. As I said, a crutch. Instead of putting their brain cells on fire, they just kill a character *shakes head*

When they killed Weir, I tried to understand that, but as much as I loved Carter on SG-1, she was totally unnecessary on SGA - they already had one resident genius and her presence downgraded McKay's importance for Atlantis. I liked Woolsey much better. I learned to actually love him pretty quickly. I think it was Ghost in the Machine that totally won me over. Or maybe his yorkie?

I really have to agree with the parts I bolded out.

I absolutely HATE it when they kill off “main” characters willy nilly, it totally ruins the show for me, sorry but that’s what red shirt’s are for or minor characters , I‘m all for them getting injured an bit battered if the story dictates, BUT not killing them off. I like my characters, I enjoy watching them, the actors and there characters for me are a main part of watching a show, the plot being the first port of call, if they go what’s the point. Especially if you get do get the feel, that no ones safe an could be bumped off at any point, it then for me anyway, becomes pointless to continue watching. If the actors leaves for whatever reason, don’t kill them off, leave it open actors have been know to change the minds “ ha ha”.

I agree you can have a sense of danger or edginess WITHOUT having to kill people off first, its called suspense. Some of the best films an show’s in the past have been based around the actual fear an suspense and drama of the writing an acting first an not mowing down whole group of people just for the sake of a story IMO. Hithcock always managed to have you on the edge of your seat and not always by having to bump people off to get that feel an there are many more films an show that do that, "with" the occasional killing of someone to intensify a certain situation to get the point across.

Imagination an creativity are what’s required IMO, take the last Harry Potter book as an example yes it had some deaths in but overall it was the writing, your own imagination that keep you sitting there feeling the dread of the impending conflict, not lets a kill someone off just because we can, but if a major character does have to die at least make it relevant to what’s actually going on, like in the Half Blood Prince, sad though it was, there was an actual reason why it had to happen, which became clearer later on. The same can be said for the Dark Materials by Philip Pullman, great books, full of "anticipation", fear an danger of what was going to happen, though NOT the travesty of that god awful film version that we were subjected to

Killing Weir was just “oh dear lets shake this up for no real reason” an it did IMO ruin the team dynamics an feel. I never liked Season 4 with Carter because she was so a watered down version an just didn’t fit in, an though I don’t like Wosley that much he at least was better suited and pleasantly surpised me. The Carson thing, whereas Sunday was a fantastic episode and so very sad but again it was Gero” brain child enough said.

But the saving grace with science fiction is at least no body has to say dead for ever, with AU’s Ascension, clones or whatever. Now again I like that, because it at least give the chance to correct a major “F” up in the original idea of killing that character off in the first place, but that said its now getting a bit old hat with Stargate, how many times can you do that story before its been done to death (excuse the pun).

[Thunderbird 2]

Well reflecting on various comments,

If Atlantis was Battlestar Atlantis, the publicity junket implies Universe may be BattleGate Universe! - I do NOT know specifics, but its a good bet from the format of the new series (the struggle to survive against the odds, the wrong people in the wrong place etc etc,) it will up the anti, and have a no one is safe aspect like Babylon 5 and Galactica do. - Which works for those series, esp B5 which was thought out in meticulous story arc detail.

Re Atlantis itself, I was disappointed that they changed the story rule book. - Something they did internally. As Dr Weir, I read that Torri Higginson had signed a six year contract. If thats the case, the idea was the character was meant to have a hell of a lot of ongoing potential and development, like SG1's leads. - As indeed Beckett and Ford had the potential to do too. Atlantis's main characters were growing, we were geting to know them. - Then the rules changed and all that investment in staying loyal to the series was chucked out as per the second half of season 3. (Unless your favorite characters were Shep or McKay.)



SPOLIER ALERT! Seasons 2 - 5 SGte Atlantis!!

Spoiler:

A lot of this is "what ifs" but I have direct plot references in there too.

Weir - Post nanite experience - could have had an advantage over the Replicators in the same way Colonel Carter's To'Kra experience gave her new insight and abilities. It could have turned the tide agains the Replicators sooner, and with Weir's diplomatic status, established greater alliances than the Genii, perhaps a "Pegasus against the Wraith" coallition? Something to make the Wraith sit up, and strengthen Weir, not undercut her.

Beckett - Establish that a Clone of Carson had been sent to Atlantis as a spy in Sunday, and ART 1 discover this by finding the original Beckett and another clone. A massive "Me Myself and I" type storyline, and one that Paul McGillion would have been great in. Could have ramped up the paranoia too, if established that Michael had got his hands on DNA from other expo members. - As to killing Michael inseason 5, he could have cloned himself. (OK, its Ba'al again, but they brought SG1, The Asgard, and Woolsey into SGA, so what the hell!)

Ford - Biggest mistake after Weir. Enzime Ford could have been the loose cannon in the field that made questionable allies and enemies for Atlantis, a cross between Jacob Carter's Earth man with the aliens, and Tanith in the one of us / one of them vein. That could really opened up the cultures of the Pegasus Galaxy too.

Incidentally, in one of her Gateworld interviews, Teryl Rothery revealed the producers came to her and told her they were bumping off Dr Frasier, she hadn't expressed a desire to leave the series, and they had been very happy with her work over the years. Apparently the producers had thought Season 7 would be the last of SG1, they needed to show military jeopordy -ie, someone had to be killed in the field for plausability.

I only hope that Universe manages to regain some of the solid narrative and character ground SG1 had. There is no reason it can't. As for Atlantis, if Universe does well, it may be remembered as the "middle child" that was a good concept that turned sour.