Andromeda as Trek?

[DigiFluid]

Allow me to briefly paraphrase the setup for Andromeda:

In the beginning (prologue) of the story, there's a massive Commonwealth of thousands of worlds of various species all generally politically and economically aligned. The Systems Commonwealth achieves peace with the warlike Magog by ceding a world to them. This peace soon breaks down and in a great battle, an important member of the Commonwealth betrays humanity and splinters off on their own. The main ship of the series becomes trapped in the time-dilation field of a black hole and is trapped there for several centuries before being retrieved by a salvage team. In the time that's passed, the Commonwealth has collapsed and galactic civilization has reverted to independent worlds and fiefdoms, all competing in every imaginable fashion for supremacy over the others.


Now I'm sure, as Trek fans, most of you will have the longstanding rumour that Andromeda was a conceived reinvention of the Star Trek universe. While I don't personally believe this to be the case, it makes a rather interesting thought experiment with where the Trek universe could have gone at the end of the 'modern' Trek era.

Substitute some very obvious terms there--the Commonwealth is the Federation, the warlike Magog are the Klingons, and the important SC member that betrays them all for its own interests are the Vulcans betraying the Federation. Centuries pass and the Federation simply doesn't exist anymore, a long since forgotten memory. Enter the rescued ship, and an idealist from a golden age seeks to rebuild galactic civilization in a peaceable and equitable way.

Sounds like a hell of a re-launch for the Trek-verse to me. I don't remember us talking about this (or at least, not lately ) so I thought I'd put it out there to you guys. If the Trek universe had been relaunched in this way, would you like it and watch it? What would you like to see happen in this thought-experiment timeline?

[Giantevilhead]

There are too many other forces at work in the Star Trek Universe. For one, we already know that the Federation will still exist in the 31st century. There are also a lot of other species around that will take advantage of any instability in the Alpha Quadrant like the Borg and the Dominion. Plus Sisko is with the Prophets so he is no longer subject to linear time, which means that he would be able to alter the future. Then there's Q, who's quite fond of humans.

[DigiFluid]

There are too many other forces at work in the Star Trek Universe. For one, we already know that the Federation will still exist in the 31st century. There are also a lot of other species around that will take advantage of any instability in the Alpha Quadrant like the Borg and the Dominion. Plus Sisko is with the Prophets so he is no longer subject to linear time, which means that he would be able to alter the future. Then there's Q, who's quite fond of humans.

Well, allow me to protest!


The Federation exists in the 31st century according to one possible future, which Trek has time and again told us isn't written in stone. Or alternatively, maybe the Federation exists again by then.

I wouldn't say the Borg or Dominion are limiting factors either.... By the end of DS9, the Dominion are decisively defeated in the Alpha Quadrant and Odo's returned to the Link and re-educated the Founders on the real nature of solids--that we're not all hateful oppressive monsters. I can't help but believe that Odo's mission would be successful in convincing the Founders to change the Dominion's aggressive, expansionist ways. He's not the type to suffer cruelty

Likewise the Borg, if we take voyager to be fact, have been rather crippled by the end of that series. A devastating blow was dealt to their transwarp network, limiting their ability to travel for....well, honestly, we have no idea how long.

For Q, a few centuries is a blink of an eye. On numerous occasions we've seen him show up in various outdated uniforms and costumes, seemingly unaware or simply uncaring about the developments between medievalism and the TNG era. What difference does it make to him, then, if Starfleet and the Federation disappear for a cosmic wink of an eye?

It's been a while since I've watched DS9, so I'm a little unclear on what you mean by Sisko/the Prophets controlling time. From what I remember, we've learnt that one inhabited Sisko's mother to cause his birth and and which fulfilled the prophecies of the Bajorans. We've also seen them make an entire fleet of ships vanish, but only within their 'celestial temple'. I don't recall them ever controlling time though....

More thoughts? Anyone? This is fun

[jelgate]

It's been a while since I've watched DS9, so I'm a little unclear on what you mean by Sisko/the Prophets controlling time. From what I remember, we've learnt that one inhabited Sisko's mother to cause his birth and and which fulfilled the prophecies of the Bajorans. We've also seen them make an entire fleet of ships vanish, but only within their 'celestial temple'. I don't recall them ever controlling time though....

More thoughts? Anyone? This is fun

The Prophets have no concept of a linear time existence and live at all points in history. Think of how the Nexus anamoly from Star Trek: Generations

[DigiFluid]

Ah yes, but how difficult it must be for a non-linear entity to alter the flow of linear history to its liking Yes they did it with Sisko, but isn't that about it?

Heck the entire plot stumbling block could be kicked aside with a throwaway line about someone not liking them and collapsing the wormhole. Lord knows we've seen that (or virtual scenarios of that) on several occasions throughout DS9

[Giantevilhead]

In "Accession," the Prophets not only altered time but they made it so that people remembered the original timeline from before it was altered. Also, considering how Dukat and Pah-Wraiths were planning to set the entire universe ablaze, it seems reasonable to assume that the Prophets have a great deal of power outside the wormhole.

Assuming Odo managed to convince the Founders to be more benevolent, he would want the Dominion help the Federation. Even with the Dominion's defeat in the Alpha Quadrant, they still have more than enough resources back in the Gamma Quadrant to take on the Alpha Quadrant powers.

According to "Endgame," the Borg have 6 Transwarp Hubs, they only destroyed one. Even without transwarp, Borg cubes can easily sustain speeds greater than warp 9.9 for a very long time. Given the petty nature of the Borg Queen, she would definitely want revenge against the Federation and Janeway for what they did.

[Mclean]

I haven't watched Andromeda before but this is something I'm going to remedy very soon. Is it made from unused Star Trek material from Gene Roddenberry, as the wikipedia site suggests (I don't usually pay attention to this site but it has known to be occasionally correct).

[Alan Wake]

Ah yes, but how difficult it must be for a non-linear entity to alter the flow of linear history to its liking Yes they did it with Sisko, but isn't that about it?

Heck the entire plot stumbling block could be kicked aside with a throwaway line about someone not liking them and collapsing the wormhole. Lord knows we've seen that (or virtual scenarios of that) on several occasions throughout DS9

You won't accept voyager or ent has canon, but you accept this show, which isn't even in the same universe.?

Digi, we need to sit down and have a long talk about this matter

[DigiFluid]

Aha I'm just toying with ideas here I think Andromeda could've made a great reinvention of the Trekverse, especially after the voy/ent abominations killed it off

[Giantevilhead]

Andromeda is the opposite of what Star Trek needs. Star Trek needs to return to its roots about people coming together in the spirit of friendship and cooperation to solve common problems and the expansion of our knowledge through the exploration of uncharted territories. The post Dominion War period is a perfect time for a new Trek. You have everyone trying to rebuild. The Federation is finally at peace with many of its former enemies. It's a perfect opportunity to have a show that focuses on Starfleet trying to maintain amiable relations between the different races and helping them to rebuild. And with the major threats to the Alpha Quadrant gone, it's also a time to return to exploration. Star Trek can finally return to a vision of a more hopeful future.

[DigiFluid]

Star Trek needs to return to its roots about people coming together in the spirit of friendship and cooperation to solve common problems and the expansion of our knowledge through the exploration of uncharted territories. The post Dominion War period is a perfect time for a new Trek. You have everyone trying to rebuild. The Federation is finally at peace with many of its former enemies. It's a perfect opportunity to have a show that focuses on Starfleet trying to maintain amiable relations between the different races and helping them to rebuild. And with the major threats to the Alpha Quadrant gone, it's also a time to return to exploration. Star Trek can finally return to a vision of a more hopeful future.

But people coming together in friendship and cooperation to solve common problems would also be apparent in a 'rebuild of the Federation' scenario by default. As would expansion and exploration, being that very little would be the same a few centuries after interstellar communication--for all intents and purposes--had broken down.

But I absolutely 110% agree with (most of) what you're saying. After DS9/VOY, I had always hoped to see a Trek series set after the Dominion War; seeing everyone pick up the pieces and have to move on. There'd be a lot of animosity around which would be fantastic writing material, and there's still plenty of galaxy left to explore. It's just fun to toy with other alternatives too

[nx01a]

Well, considering how horribly Andromeda turned out post season 1...
The founding of the Federation was also the concept behind Enterprise. Just saying.

[DigiFluid]

True, BUT Enterprise was marred by the lousy TCW story, followed by a season-long arc which while an improvement over the TCW still was based on a premise that didn't make sense, and finally a season which was how the series should have started. This is, of course, to say absolutely nothing about casting a group of people who had near zero chemistry with each other, the shameless ratings grabs, and the continued employment of the Berman/Braga gruesome twosome.

Having now seen most of season 4 (honestly I didn't bother with the series much anymore after the first three) I really do think that, had the series started in this way WITH Manny Coto at the series helm, Enterprise could have been a terrific series; Federation founding and all.

[nx01a]

ENT was beautiful in s4.
The problem with watching rebuilding is that it's boring. Honestly, I'd rather see the destruction of the Federation. Like JMS said in B5: history's marked by the wars, stories are told about the wars, no one focuses on the rebuilding. And he was right. Because it's boring. Look how boring B5's 'empire-building' season 5 was. It was well written, but it really lacked the umph of fighting the Shadows and watching the League fracture or retaking Earth.

[DigiFluid]

That's also a very valid point....