Talia and Ivanova

[jds1982]

I seem to remember there being some hints that they were involved. As I watch the series again, it doesn't feel as blatant as I remember it. Have I missed something, or is the only evidence from Divided Loyalties, when she's staying in Ivanova's quarters, and reaches out her hand in the middle of the night and realizes Susan isn't there?

[Skydiver]

i think, where's that episode where the humans 'give' delenn a secret - at least i think it's delenn - and susan says 'i think i loved talia'

[Redhooks]

i think, where's that episode where the humans 'give' delenn a secret - at least i think it's delenn - and susan says 'i think i loved talia'

Season 3's Ceremonies of Light And Dark has this scene at the end of the episode.

[DigiFluid]

I seem to remember there being some hints that they were involved. As I watch the series again, it doesn't feel as blatant as I remember it. Have I missed something, or is the only evidence from Divided Loyalties, when she's staying in Ivanova's quarters, and reaches out her hand in the middle of the night and realizes Susan isn't there?

When I watched that episode a few months ago, I thought it was painfully obvious, just right out there blatant. The only way it could've been more blatant is if there was on-camera tongue

I thought it was a pretty fantastically way of being forward thinking. Same-sex relationships in science fiction are still rare even today, to have seen it on a show which aired in the mid-90s is really wonderful. I'm also very happy that they treated it so well--nobody was a harmful stereotype, they were both great characters without being there simply for Jeri Ryan-esque purposes, and it wasn't overstated as the specific plot point of an episode. B5 was already light years ahead of Trek in this respect.

[jds1982]

Just because two people sleep in the same bed together doesn't mean they are in a romantice relationship. Otherwise almost every slumber party ever would be more interesting, or disturbing.

[DigiFluid]

Slumber party? I dunno about you jds, but it's been a long time since I've been 10 years old

[Dimbo_Sama]

Just because two people sleep in the same bed together doesn't mean they are in a romantice relationship. Otherwise almost every slumber party ever would be more interesting, or disturbing.

but that's not the point.

The Talia and Susan relationship was always hinted at and delt with very subtly in the second season, it didn't seem so blatant because it being only so long a run-time and so many characters to explore it had to be relevant to the plot of each episode, add ontop of that Garibaldi constantly trying to connect with Talia romanticly, or atleast trying to be reasured that she felt about him the way he felt about her, and it's all very conflicting.

It is implied however at the end of "A Race Through Dark Places" that Susan and Talia begin to reach out to eachother with Talia taking off the Psi-Corps badge and going to Susan for comfort.

The most blatant it ever was was the line in "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" where Susan says "I think I... loved Talia..."

[Spirit]

Yeah, I suspected just as much. It didn't hit me until I moved on to the next season. Then it hit me that they were actually trying to connect the plot of Talia and Ivanova being semi-lovers. I don't know if Talia felt the same way or not. I guess she did, from the scene where she reaches her hand out in bed to find Ivanova. That might have been the symbol of connection between the two.

It's kind of interesting tho - like some of you have mentioned, I liked the fact that they didn't stereotype or overly concentrated on the subject of homosexuality but instead they treated it like any normal relationship. And of course I'm sure they were very cautious on the way they portrayed it. It did seem very subtle and faint.

Then again, I'm still confused about Marcus's love for Ivanova? Does Ivanova likes Marcus or not?

[DigiFluid]

Then again, I'm still confused about Marcus's love for Ivanova? Does Ivanova likes Marcus or not?

Most certainly, as far as I read it. Remember her bawling her eyes out over it?

[maneth]

Yeah, she did love Marcus, and even wished she'd taken it further with him: "I wish I'd at least boffed him once".

[Missster.Freeman]

Yeah, she did love Marcus, and even wished she'd taken it further with him: "I wish I'd at least boffed him once".

It would've been his first time as well. Aww, bless.

[s09119]

It would've been his first time as well. Aww, bless.

My friends all hated Marcus, but I really did like him. He was so innocent and selfless, but he allowed himself one worldly attachment; Susan, and she rebuffed him at every chance she got. And then, when he was gone, she realized that she had come to care for and need him in her own way, but it was too late to put that realization to use.

[Skydiver]

yeah, the marcus/susan thing was great. and didn't he die saving her? he gave his life for hers?

it's really too bad that CC wasn't part of the show and they coudl have explored the fallout of that decision.

[s09119]

yeah, the marcus/susan thing was great. and didn't he die saving her? he gave his life for hers?

it's really too bad that CC wasn't part of the show and they coudl have explored the fallout of that decision.

Yeah, he used the alien life force device to save her. Powerful episode.

[maneth]

Indeed it was. Even if JMS has said that he'd never have killed Marcus if he'd known CC was going to leave the show.