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GateWorld
November 7th, 2004, 06:29 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/120.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/120.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>THE SIEGE, PART 2</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 120</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
A new military contingent from Earth is sent to take command of Atlantis and defend it from the impending Wraith attack.

<B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/120.shtml">Visit the Episode Guide >></A></B></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Shipperahoy
February 4th, 2005, 09:44 AM
Better late than never right? Have fun!

Can I just say how much I HATE Col. Everett? Smarmy SOB. And what an idiot to try to cut Wier out of the loop. I mean surely he would take into consideration that the people who have been serving on Atlantis would feel loyalty to her and that it might make the transition to his command smoother if he kept her around? I hope he's not the new commander for season 2. Ick.

Buzz Lightyear
February 4th, 2005, 09:50 AM
Summary for "The Siege, Part 2" (episode 1x20)

Dr. McKay returns from the Ancient satellite mission and is informed by Dr. Weir that the remaining Wraith hive ships have started moving again but at a much slower pace. She also states they are out of options to fight the Wraith. When Lt. Ford announces the final group in Atlantis is ready to evacuate to the designated Alpha site, Weir and Major Sheppard arm the city self-destruct.

As they are dialing the Alpha site, an incoming wormhole suddenly appears. It’s from the SGC! Colonel Everett brings a large team of marines and equipment through and promptly relieves Dr. Weir of command of Atlantis. Brushing aside the surprise and objections of the Atlantis expedition, Everett starts issuing orders to set up a defence of Atlantis, countermanding the previously activated self-destruct plan.

Everett reveals that Earth has finally located a ZPM in Egypt and used it to power the gate to connect to Atlantis. Not only that but Earth’s newest battlecruiser, the Daedalus, was enroute, bringing the ZPM to use to power the Atlantis city defences. Using the ZPM, the Daedalus will reach Atlantis in under four days. Meanwhile, Everett orders Sheppard to begin instructing Ancient gene enhanced pilots on how to fly the puddle jumpers. Sheppard himself, however, will not be part of that flying defence. Instead, Everett wants him to use the city’s control chair, much like O’Neill did in Antarctica against Anubis’ fleet.

The marines have brought along several rail guns originally slated for upgrading Prometheus and six naquada-enhanced nuclear warheads which they proceed to position as space mines using jumpers in stealth mode. Everett has also brought a second generation naquada generator which has its power boosted 600%. It won’t last as long as a ZPM but it should power the chair long enough for it to be useful. Once the chair is powered up though, McKay makes an alarming discovery – it’s almost depleted of drones, probably during Atlantis last defence against the Wraith 10,000 years ago.

Sensors detect a huge wave of objects approaching the planet. Apparently the Wraith have sent a hundred-plus asteroids hurtling towards Atlantis. Long-range sensors didn’t perceive them as a threat, hence didn’t react to them earlier. The asteroids mostly burn up in the planet’s atmosphere but they succeed in knocking out the minefield and causing radiation overload of Atlantis’ sensors. While Atlantis is temporarily blinded, Wraith Darts start making attack runs. Anti-aircraft tracers light up the skies as the marine gunners fend off this initial Wraith offensive.

Sheppard suggests a new tactic of using a cloaked jumper to directly attack the hive ships while Drs. McKay and Zelenka work on a way to control the jumper remotely from the control chair. Suddenly Teyla arrives and announces that she is sensing the Wraith presence within Atlantis. Apparently the kamikaze Dart runs weren’t so kamikaze after all and up to thirty Wraith infiltrators may have beamed down inside the city. Everett assembles teams to comb the city and hunt them down. They are successful but not before experiencing casualties and losing a naquada generator.

Meanwhile, Dr. Weir goes on a mission to the Genii, hoping to convince them to set aside their animosity towards the Atlanteans and offering them a no-risk opportunity to test their nuclear arsenal against the Wraith. It took some persuasion but Weir returns with two nuclear warheads, which are then placed aboard two jumpers.

The hive ships launch another wave of Dart attacks and more Wraith fighters are beamed into the city. Frustrated that McKay and Zelenka have been unable to get the chair and remote-control jumpers working, Sheppard heads for the jumper bay, intent on flying one of the bomb-ladened craft himself.

As Wraith ground forces surround the embattled defenders and close in on the Atlantis control centre, Weir and McKay re-arm the self-destruct sequence. In the cloaked jumper, Sheppard continues to approach the Wraith hive ships, apparently still undetected.

TO BE CONTINUED…

...and credits roll.

MartoufMarty
February 4th, 2005, 09:52 AM
I HATE Col. Everett too! His voice annoys the hell out of me. He's just... grrr annoying.

He's probably gonna end up dead the way that that Wraith was looking at him.

I don't think we have to worry about him taking over.

I have to say that I love Rodney and Zelenka.

Also have to say that I loved the lightshow. That was so cool!

Loved the Wraith attack.

I'm kind of excited yet sad that it's (at least) a three parter! Jeez, they gotta leave us like THAT?? :(

Col. Everett kind of ruined a bit of the episode for me with his voice. That makes me sad...

MartoufMarty
February 4th, 2005, 09:54 AM
Buzz Lightyear... am I right to guess that you wrote that summary on Monday? :P

Buzz Lightyear
February 4th, 2005, 09:55 AM
Buzz Lightyear... am I right to guess that you wrote that summary on Monday? :P

Yes! And I was just about to post it when you-know-what happened. :(

MartoufMarty
February 4th, 2005, 09:59 AM
Yes! And I was just about to post it when you-know-what happened. :(
I tried to get to the forum here to type a nice little summary, but it didn't work. So I never bothered to make one... I'd have to watch the episode again to give a summary and I don't feel like doing that right now.

I just can't stand Everett!

Buzz Lightyear
February 4th, 2005, 10:11 AM
Better late than never right? Have fun!

Can I just say how much I HATE Col. Everett? Smarmy SOB. And what an idiot to try to cut Wier out of the loop. I mean surely he would take into consideration that the people who have been serving on Atlantis would feel loyalty to her and that it might make the transition to his command smoother if he kept her around? I hope he's not the new commander for season 2. Ick.

I also was initially turned off by Everett's boorishness, however, I think his attitude may reflect that of many hard-nosed military commanders. You've got to earn his respect (based on his own personal criteria of what constitutes worthy accomplishments), but once you do, he's in your corner, so to speak, for life. You can see how his view of Dr. Weir changes as the episode progresses. For the final address to the defenders of Atlantis, he graciously defers to her. Sheppard went through this same thing with Weir, to a lesser extent.

Also remember that Everett is probably career-military and no diplomat. No chitchat or conversational pleasantries even during peace time, and this is a time of war.

Those who know the military better may correct me if I'm wrong.

Aadizookaan
February 4th, 2005, 10:14 AM
I tried to get to the forum here to type a nice little summary, but it didn't work. So I never bothered to make one... I'd have to watch the episode again to give a summary and I don't feel like doing that right now.

I just can't stand Everett!

Humm, seems like we, three, all had the same idea, but BUZZ was the first past the post, so to speak. I agree cannot stand the Everett idoit. He grated on my nerves the whole darn time. Especially, when they were in the holographic room and his little confrontation with Sheppard. I so hope that wraith does some nasty life draining from him.

MartoufMarty
February 4th, 2005, 10:17 AM
Humm, seems like we, three, all had the same idea, but BUZZ was the first past the post, so to speak. I agree cannot stand the Everett idoit. He grated on my nerves the whole darn time. Especially, when they were in the holographic room and his little confrontation with Sheppard. I so hope that wraith does some nasty life draining from him.
Why are all those military guys that come in so stupid?? They just think 'oh, they're not so bad'. They always end up dying, and that shouldn't change for him.

queenselqet31
February 4th, 2005, 10:22 AM
Everett is teh suxx0rs.

Shep is teh sexx0rs.

McKay is teh roxx0rs.

Zelenka is teh cuoot0rs.

To Be Continue-ds are teh... stoopidz0rs.

MartoufMarty
February 4th, 2005, 10:24 AM
Everett is teh suxx0rs.

Shep is teh sexx0rs.

McKay is teh roxx0rs.

Zelenka is teh cuoot0rs.

To Be Continue-ds are teh... stoopidz0rs.
... Hey, you're supposed to be doing your college work! :P

I agree with what you say... just not how you said it.

What the hell is with all the 'suxx0rs' and such? They're so... silly and stupid :P

ShadowMaat
February 4th, 2005, 10:30 AM
I get that they were trying to make him unlikeable, and they succeeded in that. But half the reason I don't like him is because his character is poorly conceived. And I'll thump anyone who says "It's only his first ep!" :P He seems too inconsistent from scene-to-scene. Sometimes even WITHIN a scene he's changing, and there's no flow to it. It'as as if his dialogue was written by three different people who didn't compare notes.

Take the harcore military no-BS attitude of O'Neil from the movie, throw in O'Neill's sarcasm and filter them through Peter DeLuise and... well, you still don't come close, but it gives you an idea of how odd the character sounds. And there's just something about his VOICE that doesn't scan right, either.

He's unbelievably stereotypical. No, scratch that, he's flat-out unbelievable. The cutesy "I'll buy you a drink" wasn't even that cute. It was condescending, stupid, and a blatant attempt at amusifying an unpalatable character.

Bates was back to his unpleasantly over-paranoid, rabid dog routine which is so overpowering it almost drowns out the very valid points he was trying to make. The folks who wrote this also wrote Suspicion, the only other ep when Bates has been ridiculously overboard in his otherwise legitimate concerns. They should try watching the eps they don't write- they might get a better idea of how the character should/could be done. ;) (and there's an in joke in that for some people) Bates is a good character. I hate to see him being abused and blown out of proportion. He's had some good eps and I hope he'll have some more in S2.

The fight between Bates and Teyla was shocking... all the more so because I find it unbelieveable that Teyla would loose her cool like that. It was a rather blatant attempt to set up a red herring... as was finding Bates unconscious later on. That was another unbelieveable point. Why in the nine hells would a wraith EVER leave a victim beaten and unconscious... but still alive and un-fed upon? Trying to hide? Well, a comatose soldier is hardly likely to pass unnoticed and I doubt Bob knew enought about what was happening to surmise that people would suspect Teyla... and even that would only work for a while. Feed off him and stuff his body in the rafters. Or heck, tie a weight to him and toss him overboard- less chance of him being found and it might be a while before anyone realises he's missing.

But I digress. Despite my nitpicks, I thought this was a pretty good ep. The visuals were, as usual, stunning. LOVED the city shots. I hope they don't over-use it, as it's something that works best in small doses, but it was still very cool. The fight against the wraith darts was beautiful to watch. Almost seemed like a fireworks display at times. And in a way, it was. :)

McKay and Zelenka were fantasic. They're always a joy to watch and this time was no different. It's too bad they're the only two scientists in all of Atlantis capable of doing EVERYTHING, but if it means watching McKay get crankier and more obnoxious, I'm all for it. Looks as if we've finally solved the riddle of Doc Z's first name, too: Radek. Glad to put THAT argument to rest. :P

Weir is definitely now in my top five fave characters. Anyone who can successully negotiate a deal while blindfolded and tied up at the mercy of an enemy who hates her and all her people is pretty damn good in my book. :D

Wish I could feel more remorse over the loss of Grodin, but he was in the first few eps and then disappeared and put in a brief appearance somewhere before disappearing again and... well, it's hard to get worked up when we weren't given much of a chance to get into his character. Even Ford has gotten more than Grodin did, and that's really saying something. :P

Was not pleased to see the return of the Athosians. It's pretty obvious they were only a plot device to get Teyla onto the team and now they're kinda useless and only brought in when TPTB feel the need to remind us that THEY know the Athosians still exist. Good way to waste time, too. *sigh*

Likewise, I could care less what happens to Teyla. I'm sorry, but I've given her an entire season and the more I see of her, the less I like. The ONLY time I found her remotely interesting was in The Gift when she was possessed by a wraith. It might interesting to see HER go darkside (even if unwillingly) but I doubt that we'd ever get that lucky. *sigh*

Poor Ford. Poor, poor Ford. :(

Can anyone tell me the name of the coffee-drinking Canuck scientist/gate tech who's been popping up in recent eps? I KNOW I've seen him somewhere before. I wanna say it's Brendan Beiser, but he's kinda my default Generic Vancouver Actor, so I could be wildly wrong.

I'd give Siege 1&2 a 3 out of 5. Extra points for good FX, but a few negs for gross negligence in characterization. :P

Aadizookaan
February 4th, 2005, 10:33 AM
Queen and Marty,

Calm down, the Manitoban in us all, tell us not to display our infighting with non-Manitobans.

Plus, its warm and nice outside, play nice in the snow.

MartoufMarty
February 4th, 2005, 10:39 AM
Queen and Marty,

Calm down, the Manitoban in us all, tell us not to display our infighting with non-Manitobans.

Plus, its warm and nice outside, play nice in the snow.
... No.

It's warm in here.

We might get eaten by bears or rabid dogs if we go outside :P

... Or be attacked by Lola and her snow-jumping ways.

Anyways, on topic...

I liked The Siege part 2... It wasn't as good as the first one there. I was kind of disappointed for most of this episode, but the end (being a TO BE CONTINUED) made me kind of go, 'OMG!'...

Not as good as the first part...

Buzz Lightyear
February 4th, 2005, 10:39 AM
Humm, seems like we, three, all had the same idea, but BUZZ was the first past the post, so to speak. I agree cannot stand the Everett idoit. He grated on my nerves the whole darn time. Especially, when they were in the holographic room and his little confrontation with Sheppard. I so hope that wraith does some nasty life draining from him.

Surprisingly, I actually grew to appreciate his style of command. Kudos to the writers Mallozzi and Mullie for creating a multi-faceted character in such limited screen time.

We may not like his arrogance but he had good and logical reasons for all of his actions.

He initially cut Dr. Weir out of the loop because this was a war scenario and Weir's established reputation was as a diplomat and negotiator. He isn't aware of how Weir has grown and become a more well-rounded leader of people, until she shows him.

His distrust of Sheppard is also logical. Everyone who has read his file knows he doesn't always respect the chain of command. And we know first hand from Shep's insubordinate actions in Atlantis how true that can be. Also if one of your best friends was killed in the way Colonel Sumner was, wouldn't you be a bit suspicious and angry at the person partially responsible, especially one with Sheppard's military record?

His distrust of Teyla? Again logical. But Everett also is flexible and is constantly re-evaluating the situation, hence his acceptance of Teyla's offer of help later.

The space mines stratagem was a bust but not even those who had more experience dealing with the Wraith were able to predict their asteroids tactic.

Clearly both the SGC and the Pentagon tried to be as prepared as possible by sending as many troops as they could on short notice in whom the Ancient gene therapy worked, including Everett, the task force commander. I presume Beckett's research data on the gene therapy was already available on Earth or was sent back in "Letters From Pegasus".

alz0rz
February 4th, 2005, 10:40 AM
I think I speak for everyone when I say this episode was amazing. I'll get some screen captures up soon.

queenselqet31
February 4th, 2005, 10:42 AM
Queen and Marty,

Calm down, the Manitoban in us all, tell us not to display our infighting with non-Manitobans.

Plus, its warm and nice outside, play nice in the snow.

No. There's yellow in the snow. Too much to be any good...

Oh, and The Siege Pt. 2 was cool.

Buzz Lightyear
February 4th, 2005, 11:09 AM
But half the reason I don't like him is because his character is poorly conceived. And I'll thump anyone who says "It's only his first ep!" :P He seems too inconsistent from scene-to-scene. Sometimes even WITHIN a scene he's changing, and there's no flow to it. It'as as if his dialogue was written by three different people who didn't compare notes.

Take the harcore military no-BS attitude of O'Neil from the movie, throw in O'Neill's sarcasm and filter them through Peter DeLuise and... well, you still don't come close, but it gives you an idea of how odd the character sounds. And there's just something about his VOICE that doesn't scan right, either.

He's unbelievably stereotypical. No, scratch that, he's flat-out unbelievable. The cutesy "I'll buy you a drink" wasn't even that cute. It was condescending, stupid, and a blatant attempt at amusifying an unpalatable character.

Totally disagree. Didn't get that feeling about Everett at all. His drink comment is a gruff military way of saying "you've got my respect", nothing more, nothing less, and certainly not cute, as you say. I've already stated my general impressions elsewhere, so I'll wait for a few military folks to comment on whether his character was believable or not.


Bates was back to his unpleasantly over-paranoid, rabid dog routine which is so overpowering it almost drowns out the very valid points he was trying to make. The folks who wrote this also wrote Suspicion, the only other ep when Bates has been ridiculously overboard in his otherwise legitimate concerns. They should try watching the eps they don't write- they might get a better idea of how the character should/could be done. ;) (and there's an in joke in that for some people) Bates is a good character. I hate to see him being abused and blown out of proportion. He's had some good eps and I hope he'll have some more in S2.

Security-wise, I'd rather have Bates in my corner than Sheppard. He's been right that Teyla has been a security liability, albeit through no fault of her own. Although not proven, the Wraith could well have found out about the alpha site from Teyla's "mind meld" experiences. At this point, no one knows about the Wraith infiltrator yet.


The fight between Bates and Teyla was shocking... all the more so because I find it unbelieveable that Teyla would loose her cool like that. It was a rather blatant attempt to set up a red herring... as was finding Bates unconscious later on. That was another unbelieveable point. Why in the nine hells would a wraith EVER leave a victim beaten and unconscious... but still alive and un-fed upon? Trying to hide? Well, a comatose soldier is hardly likely to pass unnoticed and I doubt Bob knew enought about what was happening to surmise that people would suspect Teyla... and even that would only work for a while. Feed off him and stuff his body in the rafters. Or heck, tie a weight to him and toss him overboard- less chance of him being found and it might be a while before anyone realises he's missing.

Occam's Razor. The simplest theory is usually the correct one. The Wraith would not leave Bates alive, therefore, where Bates was found was not where the initial fight took place. More than likely, Bates gave as good as he got and both parties retreated. Only difference is, the Wraith have Wolverine's mutant healing ability. ;)

And why wouldn't Teyla lose her cool? Being accused of (in her mind) being a Wraith collaborator is a major insult.

Kalinda
February 4th, 2005, 11:20 AM
NOOOOOO!!!!

Aww, man.. they left us with everyone's fate being uncertain! :eek:

I have some guesses about what may happen, but we'll just have to wait and see... in July, right? That's usually when new seasons come out, eh?

Some things about the episode -- I loved the amazing effects; like those neat shots of the city and the battles... would've been sweet to watch it on a huge TV =D

Adding the Genii made an interesting twist.. or I thought it was going to - when they threatened to keep Doctor Weir, I thought that would've made an uber twist if they'd done it. I guess they really didn't add too much to the episode, thjough, besides the information that the Genii aren't in danger from the Wraith anymore.. at least not YET.. hehe..

Of course, the actual ending was a pretty big cliffhanger >< I also hope that the Genii remain an enemy of the people of Atlantis for a while, they're pretty cool and give us something else besides the Wraith ^_^

This definatley topped part 1, although I think that on the DVD they should stick the two together, that'd be cool =)

So, 10/10 - great episode - can't wait for season 2 :D

joanne1138
February 4th, 2005, 11:58 AM
I did a long commentry-ramble on LiveJournal during the great and terrible absence and I started out with the words 'Kill! Kill him!' not far from Everetts name every time I mentioned him... but by the end I had grown somewhat attached to him. I do not understand it. All I want is for it to go away because I do not WANT to like him. *shrug*

Lots of Dr Zelenka which is always nice. VFX were lovely! Especially when the Wraith dart was burning up and it crashed into the ocean. The swooping city shots were nice, very detailed. What else... the chair was very much there and being its pretty self.

By the way, how many jumpers are left. I could've sworn there were four and when four were shown in the montage sequence I jumped up and down for the joy of continuity... but then in a later shot five were shown in the bay. Mistake or are there actually five left?

All in all I wouls give it a 4 stars. Anything that will make me type four pages of ramble-commentry willingly deserves 4 stars.

Quinn Mallory
February 4th, 2005, 12:14 PM
I am rather disappointed that nothing got resolved by the end of this episode. Don't get me wrong. I loved the episode and its plot twists and stuff (although it was rather obvious that the plans were not going to work). I would have just liked to see more thing resolved such as the wraith hive ships blow up or something and then we can still be leave hanging as to who have survived, etc.).

I just hope that season 2 doesn't start with the Prometheus popping in to save the day. That would be rather lame although I am sure the Prometheus will be involved somehow.

I enjoyed the episode but I just hate being left with the empty feeling of having to wait until the summer. When you build up the entire second half of the season on this final attack, I think you have got to resolve this a bit more than what they have done.

Hatcheter
February 4th, 2005, 12:39 PM
I thought "Seige, pt1" was great. Part Two, however, was probably the best hour of television I've ever seen!

After a poor dubbing job in the opening scenes, I grew to like Everett. (Does it sound to anyone else like PDL re-recorded those lines?) He was the man with the plan, and didn't want to waste any time implementing it. While trying to cut Weir out of the loop wasn't the best idea, he wasn't disrespectful about it. He relieved her of command in proper military fashion (including saluting her), then set about his job.

The night battle over Atlantis made me shiver. When it began, it was like watching Baghdad on CNN, circa '91 or '03. Except in Atlantis, they were hitting things. :cool:

And I think I growled audibly when I saw "to be continued". I can't wait until July to see how this ends!

ShadowMaat
February 4th, 2005, 12:42 PM
(Does it sound to anyone else like PDL re-recorded those lines?)
Yes!! It was very weird. But I found nothing at all to like about the character, "following military protocol" or not.

CrackedButter
February 4th, 2005, 01:14 PM
I thought Everett was a class act and he was damn near perfect in what the writers intended. My dad is ex military and has some of those traits. Such as getting things done when needed to and his "buy you a drink remark". His salute to Weir was a sign of respect, who else has ever saluted Weir out of respect in the show? Just that alone could of been enough. His voice sounded great but it was different.

A military man in command is their to get things done no questions asked, just like Sheppard said, he is trying to set up a chain of command. His area isn't politics and people problems, that Weirs forte. Notice how they were much better together rather than apart. Notice Lt. Ford has no trouble with him, and quickly knew who was in charge.

I damn well love tho character and hope he stays AND in charge with Weir. Each both doing their thing. They showed they could in this episode.

Shepperd btw is going to be rescued by the earth ship (guessing). Since earth has a puddlejumper they could of known about its cloak abilities and thus might well pick him out at the last moment with a timely teleport. (For those who get the joke, can I say teleport?)

One thing I didn't like was the loss of mines, they should of kept at least one. Plus while I could understand they wanted to send more through the gate from earth, but in a small time as possible (to save energy), I think they could of brought more power generation with them. Seemed a kop out when they were running into problems later on. Since they read the reports, they should of known they had aleady lost a generator in the nanites episode.

Anybody notice, Everett went with the term "Puddlejumper" and not Timeship, didn't question it? Also you could tell he knew about the Genii when it was mentioned. He certainly read his stuff.

I wonder if this ship has a hanger bay full of the 302's?

Lt. Elliot
February 4th, 2005, 01:16 PM
My Review for "The Seige: Part 2" Yay yay yay (don't ask, too much sugar!)

Things I Liked:
1. When the Stargate activated and then McKay was like "It's Stargate command". YAY EARTH!
2. Everett owes Weir a drink...I smell some new shippers, especially toward the end of the episode?
3. Sheppard is so brave when he's like I know what I have to do. And Weir was like, alright.
4. Weir off-world! And we go to see her negotiating a second time (first being with the system lords in "New Order: Part 1 and 2"
5. The rail guns.
6. Atlantis when all the power was shut down and then the lights in the sky just lit up the whole city,
7. Throughout the whole episode, when they kept showing the outside of the city and moving from part to part.
8. Everett and Larry (the Wraith!). I didn't like Everett.
9. The Athosians wanting to help fight.

Thing's I Didn't Like:
1. Everett. Hate the man more than the Wraith. I mean...he's acting sucked and he was a jerk to Weir and McKay.
2. NO DAEDULUS! I so wanted to see it soooo bad!
3. The fight scenes weren't as exciting as I thought they would be.
4. Cliffhanger episode.
5. At the end, everyone is either dead, knocked out, or about to die (Sheppard).
6. NO DAEDULUS! :(

Good Quotes/Moments:
THE WHOLE THING! All 43 minutes of it from beginning to end!! :D

So a 10/10 no doubt. Only 6 more months till Season 2. I can deal. I know I can.

Easter Lily
February 4th, 2005, 01:24 PM
What a nail-biter... I was on the edge of whatever seat I was on during most of the episode... and in the tradition of every Stargate season finale, it ended with (*surprise, surprise*) a cliffhanger.
Atlantis has exceeded my expectations... I really didn't expect TPTB to be able to maintain the tension for four straight episodes... it so un-Stargate :p ... I almost didn't want to watch it for fear of wanting more...

Colonel Everett seemed pretty much the Sumner clone... not one to suffer fools gladly... it doesn't sound like most people were convinced by his Southern air... I didn't mind him... I thought he acted fairly consistently as the military stereotype who reeks of overweening arrogance and then later softens when he realises that this is no normal military situation... I was grinning inwardly when Rodney took him down a peg or two later... came close to cheering actually... :D
It was nice to see Sheppard stick up for Weir in front of Everett... it really showed how much he has grown in his attitude towards Weir's leadership since Hot Zone.

When Sheppard runs off to do his thing at the end... I thought... "that is so Sheppard... that is something he would do... it is very consistent with who he is all throughout the first season." I think it exemplifies his attitude and actions in Hot Zone very effectively. On another forum someone accused Sheppard of being selfish and thoughtless in his decision making process... but I think far from being selfish, Sheppard has very good intentions... to the point of being self-sacrificing... that is his blind spot... he cares too much and he is a man of action. He is not one to standby and do nothing if he feels he has the power to make things happen.

Weir did well in this episode too... I thought the Genii were going to cause problems again... but almost cheered again when Weir told the commander to "get off his high horse" (so to speak). It was pretty gutsy... once again it shows growth in her journey as leader of the expedition... shows how much she has had to adapt to the circumstances around her...

Some nice banter between Zelenka and Rodney... it was important for us to see how much of a toll the situation had taken on both of them... ie the need for stimulants... that created a sense of weariness and urgency for me. Hopefully we'll continue to see more of Zelenka in Season 2.

It was a wonderful episode all in all (the drama, the excitement, the danger so close at hand)... it reminded me of how much I'm going to miss Atlantis during the hiatus... :(

ShadowMaat
February 4th, 2005, 01:33 PM
it doesn't sound like most people were convinced by his Southern air...
Maybe if he'd kept the Southern accent consistently. It seemed like the actor kept forgetting to do it- sometimes Everett had an accent, sometimes he didn't and his voice still didn't sound right.

I think it's funny that someone else thought he sounded like PDL at times, too. ;)

I wasn't convinced by any aspect of this character. And I'll agree with him being a clone of Sumner. But while I understand that stereotypes are stereotypes because people do tend to behave in certain ways, I'm getting a bit sick of the gung-ho hooyah military stereotype. I didn't like it in Sumner and I like it even less in Everett.

His confrontation with Shep about his "good friend" annoyed me, too. But then, EVERYTHING about him annoyed me. Ye gods, who knew someone could actually make the female wraith look GOOD...

CrackedButter
February 4th, 2005, 01:38 PM
Maybe if he'd kept the Southern accent consistently. It seemed like the actor kept forgetting to do it- sometimes Everett had an accent, sometimes he didn't and his voice still didn't sound right.

I think it's funny that someone else thought he sounded like PDL at times, too. ;)

I wasn't convinced by any aspect of this character. And I'll agree with him being a clone of Sumner. But while I understand that stereotypes are stereotypes because people do tend to behave in certain ways, I'm getting a bit sick of the gung-ho hooyah military stereotype. I didn't like it in Sumner and I like it even less in Everett.

His confrontation with Shep about his "good friend" annoyed me, too. But then, EVERYTHING about him annoyed me. Ye gods, who knew someone could actually make the female wraith look GOOD...

They are not clones.

Sumner was not gung ho either and the fact that they made Everett a Southerner should of been a clear enough signal that he was different to Sumner as well.

Sumner was always hesitant with having Weir as an equal before the fan was hit with something. Everett had no issues with her at all. He is military and thought military, he was respectful and held nothing against her either. He was even gracious to her at times, like with offering the chair back.

joanne1138
February 4th, 2005, 01:49 PM
He is military and thought military, he was respectful and held nothing against her either.

He largly ignored her until Sheppard coerced him into letting her into the meeting, because she was civilian. I call that holding something against her. He was somewhat condescending to her also, later on.

It not that I really hate him now, but his first few scenes gave me murderous urges. I'm indifferent towards him now. With time (although I suspect from his last scene, he does not have much of that) I may work up to something in the region of like.

Major Tyler
February 4th, 2005, 02:00 PM
This episode was so perfect! I loved every minute of it! Colonel Everett was great because we got to see him progress from stereotypical hardass, to a member of the team. Weir and Sheppard had to steamroll him, but once they got their feet in the door, Everett respected them (kind of).

I can't wait for July! :D

CrackedButter
February 4th, 2005, 02:11 PM
He largly ignored her until Sheppard coerced him into letting her into the meeting, because she was civilian. I call that holding something against her. He was somewhat condescending to her also, later on.

It not that I really hate him now, but his first few scenes gave me murderous urges. I'm indifferent towards him now. With time (although I suspect from his last scene, he does not have much of that) I may work up to something in the region of like.

You certainly don't know your military then. Everett had nothing against her. If you remember Weir was treated in the same way by SG1 before she proved herself in New Order.

Everetts reasons were simple (she IS a civvie) and it seems at this stage, without motive, he probably just misunderstood the situation just like everything else at first. Now Everett did have something against Shep and we found out the reason why. Notice the difference?

alz0rz
February 4th, 2005, 02:25 PM
I am rather disappointed that nothing got resolved by the end of this episode. Don't get me wrong. I loved the episode and its plot twists and stuff (although it was rather obvious that the plans were not going to work). I would have just liked to see more thing resolved such as the wraith hive ships blow up or something and then we can still be leave hanging as to who have survived, etc.).

I just hope that season 2 doesn't start with the Prometheus popping in to save the day. That would be rather lame although I am sure the Prometheus will be involved somehow.

I enjoyed the episode but I just hate being left with the empty feeling of having to wait until the summer. When you build up the entire second half of the season on this final attack, I think you have got to resolve this a bit more than what they have done.

It isn't Prometheus - its the Deadulus :p

ShadowMaat
February 4th, 2005, 02:47 PM
You certainly don't know your military then.
Know what? I don't give a flying fig if his characterization is "militarily accurate" or not. I still hate the guy, I still think he acted like a complete jackhole and I still don't like the way he sounded.

I also fail to understand what knowing the military has to do with liking a character or not and I highly doubt that TPTB wrote Everett figuring, "Oh, well, everyone will understand he's acting this way because he's a military guy". Being a Marine is a fact, not an excuse.

I've seen bunches of military-oriented movies and a handful of military shows. I've even loved by-the-book fanatically militaristic characters born with a ka-bar in their mouths, but that doesn't change the fact that in Everett's case, I hate him and find him thus far irredeemable. *shrug*

Defend him all you like. Explain that it's a "military thing". I still hate him. :P

CrackedButter
February 4th, 2005, 03:12 PM
Know what? I don't give a flying fig if his characterization is "militarily accurate" or not. I still hate the guy, I still think he acted like a complete jackhole and I still don't like the way he sounded.

I also fail to understand what knowing the military has to do with liking a character or not and I highly doubt that TPTB wrote Everett figuring, "Oh, well, everyone will understand he's acting this way because he's a military guy". Being a Marine is a fact, not an excuse.

Isn't this like anything in life, not knowing enough about something generally leads a person to not understanding clearly either. It goes hand in hand. Hence all those cliches about fearing the unknown and what not.


I've seen bunches of military-oriented movies and a handful of military shows. I've even loved by-the-book fanatically militaristic characters born with a ka-bar in their mouths, but that doesn't change the fact that in Everett's case, I hate him and find him thus far irredeemable. *shrug*

Defend him all you like. Explain that it's a "military thing". I still hate him. :P

Its typical in a conversation when one person goes off on a tangent and stops discussing the matter at hand after the other has proved his or her point.

I understand you hate him as a character but my point is more the reason why you hate him, as you have pointed out. You said don't understand, thus you might misinterpret his mannerisms asyou did. Then formed an opinion based on your lack of understanding.

You think he acted in ways which might have had ulterior motives and I don't think he did, simply for being military (plus again, the writers have openly had him out as having a grudge against Shep). The opinions here seem that one minute he is a clone of Sumner and has a Gung ho attitude, next minute he is hinted at being cold and calculating.

He infact complemented Weir later on when he said she was the best person in the "base" to negioate with the Genii. Notice he also calls atlantis a base and not a city?

He is simply a military man with a plan and doesn't have time for niceities with people he doesn't know and haven't earn't his respect of them. This all changes later when he comes on board and understands the people he is dealing with.

Easter Lily
February 4th, 2005, 04:12 PM
You think he acted in ways which might have had ulterior motives and I don't think he did, simply for being military (plus again, the writers have openly had him out as having a grudge against Shep). The opinions here seem that one minute he is a clone of Sumner and has a Gung ho attitude, next minute he is hinted at being cold and calculating.

He infact complemented Weir later on when he said she was the best person in the "base" to negioate with the Genii. Notice he also calls atlantis a base and not a city?

He is simply a military man with a plan and doesn't have time for niceities with people he doesn't know and haven't earn't his respect of them. This all changes later when he comes on board and understands the people he is dealing with.

That seems to be my impression as well... In fact I would go further and say that there is really not that much of him for us to like or dislike. He performed a role in the episode... he went on a quick journey of gruff military commander to I'm-sorry-I-was-such-an-idiot all in the space of 40 something minutes... it was a life and death situation and he acted according to his usual instincts. He gave the main players a chance to rise to the occasion and that was really why he was there.

Purpleyin
February 4th, 2005, 04:13 PM
Ok, first thing about this is Everett's opening dialogue was soo bad.
It just didn't fit at all and unless they fix it I will be unhappy at buying the dvd/dvdboxset with it on.

Everyone watching it laughed so much at that bad dubbing, almost as bad as kungfu movies :)
I didn't hear most of what he said frst time we watched it since we couldn't get over the disastrous re-record of that.

Other than that Everett was annyonig and acent fluctuating. I didn't mind him so much as episode went on but if he's dead then I won't care. And was it just me or did he have a strange thing going with Weir by the end? Almost like he was flirting, very odd. Of course I also hated the whole you killed my buddy thing because he realy ought to have understood if he'd read the reports but, ah well.

I prefered Seige part 1 to part 2. This won't be an episode I want to rewatch as much as others like part 1 but the cgi was fantastic, the shots of the city and the battle (the lights going out scene was wonderful). They deserve an award for what we see here.

Also little sad they downplayed Weir's negotiation/kidnapping - could have been more to it but I'm happy she gets such a strong role in the episode and hoping the genii and Prenim are back in Season 2, especially if Weir gets to deal with them again.

The whole Sheppard/Weir scene at the end really bugs me. Over the top soap opera-ish, doesn't make me like Sheppard so much, he should have gone done it rather than wasting time with angsty looks of goodbye.

Other thing I want to see in te continuation is McKay collapsing because he should be done in by the end of the crisis, he certainly looked near breaking point most of the way thorugh the episode. Unless he slept on the jumper flights in part 1 and between then it sounds like he hasn't slept properly for 2 weeks, if at all in that last week before this all.

The last thing is where was Sora?
Its the battle and they need all the hands they can get and so why is she presumably sitting in the brig either with guards being wasted on her or being useless and just a tasty snack for some wraith if they find her there?

Vyse
February 4th, 2005, 04:40 PM
Great episode, I loved the night fight scenes and how the camera moved around the exteriors of Atlantis, then went in to close-ups, then to the interior! Breathtaking! The only bad thing is we have to wait sooooo long for season 2!

ToastBusters
February 4th, 2005, 08:15 PM
I'm glad to see that the site is back up. I don't normally post much here, but for this ep I made an exception.

And that with the worst timing in history.

Anyway, I was utterly blown away by this ep. I will even go as far as to forgive the vfx team for the cheesy tsunami earlier in the season. I retract every bad coment I made about the visuals back when "the eye" aired. The way they zoomed around the city was right up my alley. The only thing I would have done diffrently wasn't done (I'm sure) because of budget. But hey, I can live without the camera going all the way through the walls rather than just outside.

fair_nymph
February 4th, 2005, 08:33 PM
I really disliked Everett. His voice was so annoying, something about it just drives me nuts. I'm not sure whether he is believable or not but I didn't like him and I hope he gets killed by a Wraith soon.

Regarding Bates, I used to dislike him but he's grown on me. I do think he has valid points in regard to security, but I think the way that he goes about things is bad. He could be a more tactful and less accusatory, and get the same points across more successfully.

McKay and Zelenka were fab as usual. I liked their point about how the military disregard them until they are really needed -- it struck me as very true.

It was fun to see sexy Shep in the chair kicking ass. Also cool that Ford jumped out to gun after the previous gunner got sucked up.

I adored Weir, and her 'I'm WAY beyond careful line.' I like her hard ass attitude -- it's her best side if you ask me.

Question about the new-found zpm and the Daedalus -- somehow I feel like sending just the zpm through the gate would have been better, rather than having to wait 4 days for the battle cruiser -- what do others think?

I was disappointed that it's a cliffhanger episode and I would probably die from withdrawal if I didn't have over 7 seasons of SG1 to catch up on!

ShadowMaat
February 4th, 2005, 08:38 PM
Ya know, now that you remind me... I thought it was sheer brilliance having people get sucked up by the wraith darts, since that's EXACTLY what they're supposed to do. But it only seemed to be that one turret. It would have been nice (if catastrophic) to see LOTS of people get disappeared. It'd be exactly what I'd expect of the wraith. You don't want the enemy shooting at you? Make them go away. :D

fair_nymph
February 4th, 2005, 08:44 PM
Man, I read more and have more to say!

Everett getting on Shep's case about Sumner really annoyed me. It struck me as VERY unprofessional and petty of Everett, and explained his poor attitude towards Shep (I don't believe that Shep's history of disobediance is adequate for the level of Everett's dislike).

I loved the moment where McKay asked Beckett for 'more stimulants, we are working on nuclear weapons here!' :D


It was nice to see Sheppard stick up for Weir in front of Everett... it really showed how much he has grown in his attitude towards Weir's leadership since Hot Zone.
I absolutely agree...I was very pleased to see this also. It was also mildly shippy (squeeeee!). ;)


Sheppard has very good intentions... to the point of being self-sacrificing... that is his blind spot... he cares too much and he is a man of action. He is not one to standby and do nothing if he feels he has the power to make things happen.
This is an excellent characterization, again I agree completely. Well said! :)

Im_just_guessing
February 4th, 2005, 08:45 PM
I thought the battle looked like fireworks. I thought the end shot with Ford was kind of wierd somehow...i guess...sitcomish in that it was all lined up, not something that normally happens on its own...



I thought it sucked at first, Everett sounded really choppy, and when he came through the gate magically seemed to know the facility like the back of his hand, I mean, sure I bet he looked at the files sent to earth...but still...

Chevron_nine
February 4th, 2005, 09:51 PM
I gotta say I absolutely loved this episode. The visual effects were breathtaking. The only thing that I didn't really like was the zooming around to each part of the city. Sure, my jaw was dropping the first time I saw it, but then it just started getting annoying seeing it over and over. It seemed like they were just doing it because they can. They've never had the urge to show that in previous episodes when they were in different parts of the city, so why do it now.

At first I didn't like Col. Everett, but then he started to grow on me. I can understand his position, his mission was to defend the city and when he arrives the first thing he sees is the base's commander getting ready to run away and blow up the city. After all it wasn't him who relieved Weir of duty it was O'neill. He didn't necesarily have to relieve her of duty, but could have just allowed Everett to be in charge of city defense while still being under Weir's command. And as a side note I just loved the berets the marines were wearing:)

I loved the Wraith's tactics, The meteor shower seemed kind of odd, but I guess it had to be done for the sake of the story. I really wasn't expecting the wraith darts to beam up the gunners, and I certainly wan't expecting Kamikazee tactics and only later learning that they've beamed into the city. That really took me by surprise.

One thing had me wondering, what's powering the city's self destruct, it certainly has to be something big to break apart a city. Couldn't they have just extracted the self destruct instead of going to the Genii for nukes, surely it has to be powerful enough to take out a hive ship if it can take down the city. But maybe they would have used that as a really last resort.

I was kind of peeved that it was a cliffhanger, but there's just too much story to tell in two episodes. It also reminded me of SG-1's earlier seasons where they knew for sure there would be another season, so they didn't have to have an obscure-possible-series-conclusion episode. When I actually think about it I prefer cliffhanger endings, it keeps me wanting more and adds to the suspense.

Buzz Lightyear
February 4th, 2005, 10:31 PM
Maybe if he'd kept the Southern accent consistently. It seemed like the actor kept forgetting to do it- sometimes Everett had an accent, sometimes he didn't and his voice still didn't sound right.


It's been my experience that people who grew up speaking English with strong regional accents, then go away to larger urban centres for schooling or employment, often learn to suppress their accents. However, every so often, their accents re-surface. Consequently, Everett's fluctuating southern accent doesn't bother me one bit.

Buzz Lightyear
February 4th, 2005, 10:36 PM
He is simply a military man with a plan and doesn't have time for niceities with people he doesn't know and haven't earn't his respect of them. This all changes later when he comes on board and understands the people he is dealing with.

My sentiments exactly.

Chevron_nine
February 4th, 2005, 11:37 PM
I just realized something. The military team didn't send a MALP through before coming, isn't that kind of risky for an uber-important mission. They had no idea what was on the other side, or even if they would make it through to the other side. The Wraith could have already been in Atlantis for all they know. I noticed that we haven't seen a MALP in Atlantis since Rising but surely they could have taken the time to bring one over from the SG-1 set for this one occasion.

CrackedButter
February 5th, 2005, 12:41 AM
I noticed no MALP. Would of made sense and what it would look like on the other side. But with so much to do in this episode, some things had to go in order to get the new characters settled and the plot setup.

What I thought was weird was the scene where Everett was going to get wraithed. It was bad timing and a bad cut. The angle of the gun firing was weird as well. At least he fired though. Seen to many shows where a trained officer hesitates, making it unrealistic.

DelTrax1
February 5th, 2005, 01:47 AM
Better late than never right? Have fun!

Can I just say how much I HATE Col. Everett? Smarmy SOB. And what an idiot to try to cut Wier out of the loop. I mean surely he would take into consideration that the people who have been serving on Atlantis would feel loyalty to her and that it might make the transition to his command smoother if he kept her around? I hope he's not the new commander for season 2. Ick.

I didn't actually like him either at first. Thought his acting was terrible. But as the episode went along I started to actually except him a little. I don't however think that he will be the new leader. Weir has to much pull with everyone. And it looks like a majority of the little extra team that was sent from Earth was taken by the Wraith.

Everett was trying to hard to be a likeable character and by all means can go and be killed by the Wraith.

Blend
February 5th, 2005, 03:24 AM
Amazing episode. loved it. Love the rail guns, weoooooo earth!

On the note of Col. Everett, at first i didnt like him.. But as the episode progressed his character grew on me. He developed a respect for the other characters, which in turn made me like him. I hope he's not dead.

Loved seeing earth pour through the gate with all the troops and weapons :D
GO US!

the battle scenes were extremly amazing, seeing the wraith darts, the rail gun fire, the machine gun fire, some drones, etc.. it was great to see earth stand on our own 2 feet in an actual battle rather than 1 team miraculously saving the day (Which is great, but its refreshing to have this)

Purpleyin
February 5th, 2005, 06:04 AM
Question about the new-found zpm and the Daedalus -- somehow I feel like sending just the zpm through the gate would have been better, rather than having to wait 4 days for the battle cruiser -- what do others think?


That wasn't possible.
The ZPM was being used to dial the wormhole to Pegasus, meaning they can't take it through with them. :)
Hence after wormhole shuts down the ZPM will be left at SGC and that's why it's more useful to send it on Daedalus, becuase otherwise it sits back there on Earth doing nothing much helpful to Atlantis.

Purpleyin
February 5th, 2005, 06:06 AM
Ya know, now that you remind me... I thought it was sheer brilliance having people get sucked up by the wraith darts, since that's EXACTLY what they're supposed to do. But it only seemed to be that one turret. It would have been nice (if catastrophic) to see LOTS of people get disappeared. It'd be exactly what I'd expect of the wraith. You don't want the enemy shooting at you? Make them go away. :D

That's what I was thinking too.
I was like, hey aren't they outside and aren't those darts getting closer...?
It made sense that they got beamed up and I was surprised no one thought of that possibility.

I also thought Weir and Everett being out on the balcony was the dumbest thing ever in that case, only reinforced by the scene where something eplodes just above where they are.

OfF3nSiV3
February 5th, 2005, 06:38 AM
i absolutely loved this episode!
by far my favorite of season1 ..beautiful firework, cinematics , emotions and drama..and the cliffhanger omg..how am i going to survive some 6 months till the new episodes?!
i noticed they sent no malp too but i guess their arrival wouldn't be as dramatic if they sent a malp first

fair_nymph
February 5th, 2005, 06:44 AM
The ZPM was being used
Of course, I completely forgot about that! *smacks head* Thanks for the reminder. :)

TechnoBoY
February 5th, 2005, 07:18 AM
The first thing I noticed was Everetts voice. What a bad ADR job! It seemed so fake and computer edited (like Ashlee Simpson). It didnt sound right at all. At least after awhile it got normal, still annoyed me though. They shouldve fixed it. I couldnt stand Everett at all at the beginning. What an asshat. I hope they kill him off.

The episode just seemed different overall. I dunno, it felt different. I heard the SG1 writers did this ep? And the ending! What a cliffhanger! I cant wait until season 2!

I didnt like the zooming either. It was cool and all but it just seems stupid. A waste of time when you oculdve shown other things. The CGI was great on this ep though. Wow!

Good ep overall though. Atlantis rocks!

Mr. Seven
February 5th, 2005, 09:37 AM
They probably should have brought more Marines through the gate with them...but I guess the Milky Way Galaxy might still need them. Bringing the Daedulus and all the crew on that plus the Marines is a big expense to Earth as it is I suppose.

Everett doesn't sound anything like I thought he would. Looks like he was doomed to die.

I dunno, I liked everything, but the cliffhanger ending.

I was disappointed that Shep and Weir didn't share a make out kiss before he went up in the jumper.

dorissel
February 5th, 2005, 10:02 AM
I think this is the most sadic TO BE CONTINUED in the history of Stargate....it is like everybody has a particular type of Death specially prepared for them....Sheppard dies by nuke....Weir and Rodney die by self destruct....Ford, Teyla, Everett die by Wraith...bombs, lasers, explosions, life sucking aliens....it is like a greek tragedy.... :(

dorissel
February 5th, 2005, 10:04 AM
But what really makes the Episode a tragedy is the TO BE CONTINUED part.... :) ....can't wait for the conclusion....

Ugly Pig
February 5th, 2005, 10:58 AM
Ugly Pig semi-proudly presents (and by the way, this was all written four days ago):


PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'The Siege Part II'

And with that, the season is over. And, it ends on a frickin' evil cliffhanger!! It's not fair, I tells ya! Here I've been on the edge of my seat throughout the whole episode and in the end, I get no relief whatsoever and have to wait until, what, July? To see the conclusion? That's half a year from now! Will we even still be alive by then? Who knows?

Ahem... As I was saying, this episode had me on the edge of my seat from beginning to end, literally. And besides the sheer excitement of it, there was a lot to like - the action, the amazing visual effects (loved those "camera-flies-through-the-city" transitions!), the fact that reinforcements from Earth arrived! And the new commander - colonel Everett, was it? - while may already doomed, was kinda likeable. Even though he did seem to have some prejudices towards Sheppard. And came across as a bit of a jerk upon his arrival.

But boy, did this episode leave a lot of Unanswered questions!
- The most obvious question is; can the Wraith ships be defeated and Atlantis saved?
- Whatever happened to Ford and his gang? And whatever happened to the colonel? And Teyla? Will they be allright?
- Did everyone forget about Bates? How is he doing?

Random observations!
- Earth has a ZPM (which, if I heard correctly, is now headed towards Atlantis). Since I have yet to see the final four episodes of this season of SG-1, I'm assuming it was found in one of them.
- Earth has a new Prometheus type ship called the Deadalus (also currently headed towards Atlantis). I assume we'll see it next season.
- Next frickin' season!!! :mad:

All in all... Not a whole lot of answers in this season ender, and a new bunch of questions to be answered. It felt incomplete. Oh well. At least it rocked while being incomplete. Is it July yet? Sigh...

Easter Lily
February 5th, 2005, 01:23 PM
I was disappointed that Shep and Weir didn't share a make out kiss before he went up in the jumper.

*Gulp* No thank you...

*Heaves a sigh of relief* I'm thankful for small merices...

;)

Wass
February 5th, 2005, 01:34 PM
Did anyone notice shappered telling Col Eveett that the Ancients fought the wraith for almost 100 years before they got defeated and left Pegasus galaxy it clears few arguments about wraith appearing out of no where and defeating the ancients.

Taonas
February 5th, 2005, 01:37 PM
Can't wait till next season.... need Atlantis NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

"The Siege" was an amazing episode!!!!!

Hell, this season has been getting better and better every minute it's been on the air!

Wass
February 5th, 2005, 01:46 PM
IMO the second half of the season was a lot better then first half, it had nice flow from one episode to the next, good character development, interesting plot twists and some revealing back story.

AlphaBlu
February 5th, 2005, 03:38 PM
AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! A CLIFFHANGER!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

Those evil writers! I thought they hated cliffhangers and that's why they haven't done one since Exodus!

Still, the episode was utterly fantastic. 10/10, no question.

Everett did annoy the hell out of me at the begining. His voice was so horrible, but it cleared up by the end of the episode. I won't go on, but I can't really find fault with this episode beyond Everett at the begining. So, again, 10/10.

Siege 2 and Reckoning 2 in the same week. We're lucky fans we are. Pity we have to wait 6 months now...

BYE

Buzz Lightyear
February 5th, 2005, 04:35 PM
Those evil writers! I thought they hated cliffhangers and that's why they haven't done one since Exodus!

They didn't do a cliffhanger at the end of season 5 because the series was switching networks from Showtime to Sci Fi.

I presume they did only smallish cliffhangers for seasons 6 and 7 (the fates of Daniel and Jack, respectively) because they weren't entirely sure if they would be doing another year of the series or moving on to feature films.

Atlantis, of course, was guaranteed a second season right from the get go with the great ratings it achieved so the writers planned the story arcs accordingly.

keppiezbt
February 7th, 2005, 06:07 PM
i was really amazed at how good the cgi was for the battle scenes....wow

kashi
February 8th, 2005, 05:10 AM
Excellent finale. I was very annoyed with the writers for making us wait for months!!!

Wass
February 8th, 2005, 05:15 AM
i was really amazed at how good the cgi was for the battle scenes....wow

Today’s technology it can do anything you want.

keppiezbt
February 8th, 2005, 07:22 AM
Today’s technology it can do anything you want.

anything i want? hmmm can it make me an all wise and knowing ancient? b/c thats what i want....

ShadowMaat
February 8th, 2005, 10:27 AM
Here's one thing that bugged me. It got glossed over and ignored in the show, but Everett was very flippant and matter-of-fact about he and his men getting the gene therapy thing. But Beckett has said that it only works in about 49% of the people injected. Now... 49% is a pretty good number, but it seems a little convenient that all the guys- especially Everett himself- manage to do it successfully. It's too casual. Too much of an aside. Too easy...

aAnubiSs
February 8th, 2005, 10:28 AM
Here's one thing that bugged me. It got glossed over and ignored in the show, but Everett was very flippant and matter-of-fact about he and his men getting the gene therapy thing. But Beckett has said that it only works in about 49% of the people injected. Now... 49% is a pretty good number, but it seems a little convenient that all the guys- especially Everett himself- manage to do it successfully. It's too casual. Too much of an aside. Too easy...
I believe it was 43%.

ShadowMaat
February 8th, 2005, 10:42 AM
I believe it was 43%.
Well, then, makes my point even MORE clear. ;)

aAnubiSs
February 8th, 2005, 10:53 AM
You don't find .43*.43*.43*.43*.43 likely? Where did you go to school?;)

fair_nymph
February 8th, 2005, 01:39 PM
Shadow, I interpreted that to mean that ONLY men who succeeded in getting the gene were sent to Atlantis. Maybe that's one reason Everett himself was sent (what a shame the gene therapy worked :-p).

Easter Lily
February 8th, 2005, 01:42 PM
I think that's it...

ShadowMaat
February 8th, 2005, 01:43 PM
Ahhh, I was thinking that Beckett hadn't perfected the gene thing until AFTER he got to Atlantis, but I suppose there'd be a team on Earth doing the same thing. I guess it's an explanation, anyway. ;)

fair_nymph
February 8th, 2005, 01:52 PM
I figured once they heard about Beckett's experimentation (from the data that was sent earlier) they started innoculating. Or perhaps they had been working on the technology all along...

spg_1983
February 9th, 2005, 01:49 PM
i just managed to see the episode and i just want to say, AWESOME!!

a couple points:

the battle scene during the first wave of attacks was amazing! i think that it was the single most impressive sequence in the history of both shows, it was more impressive than a lot of feature length movies!

the rail guns! how cool were they? they were awesome!

Colonel Everett. is it me or was their something not right about the way he came in and took over? it makes sense for oniell to have sent him and for him to assume command, but it seems to me that oniell would have sent some kind of explanation along with the orders or atleast some kind of video message, as well as having everetts orders include keeping weir in the loop. oniell is to smart and experienced to have everetts orders have been to completely relieve weir like that, i think everett may have decided to interpret his orders different than oniell intended, although he did get better towards the end.

over all this was a fantastic episode! i cant wait for the next season, i think that the battle sequences were some of the greatest scenes in stargate history, if not the best.

airfro
February 9th, 2005, 02:03 PM
Loved it, great CGI and the wraith in the city.
Everett hated him at first but sort of grew on me as he wormed to wier, he also tries to shiled her as the dart decends on them which i thourght was pretty cool.
also i like the fact major sheppard tells everett the ancients never lost a battle but they new they were out numbered so being smarter than the average bears they chose to regroup be fore being trapped in the city. so what im trying to say is im glad they never got there asses whooped like many people thourght they did.

Canadian_Guy
February 13th, 2005, 09:25 PM
Hey just watched the seige Pt II a second time and a couple of thoughts came to mind. For starters why didn't they bring some flak guns with them, the only thing I could see that they brought were the rail guns, other then that all they brought was a couple of 50. cal for anti-aircraft fire.

I don't see why they didn't bring a couple of flak guns. I think flak would have been way more effective against the wraith darts.

Major Tyler
February 13th, 2005, 11:37 PM
I don't see why they didn't bring a couple of flak guns. I think flak would have been way more effective against the wraith darts.Flak guns would be way too difficult to get through the gate, especially when they have the rail guns which are much more effective.

corey2002
February 15th, 2005, 09:58 PM
there where 5 PJs in atlantis when they got thereright? because in the jumper bay (in seige 2)there where 5 jumpers but in brotherhood one was blown up so there should have been 4-right?

Major Tyler
February 16th, 2005, 12:35 AM
there where 5 PJs in atlantis when they got thereright? because in the jumper bay (in seige 2)there where 5 jumpers but in brotherhood one was blown up so there should have been 4-right?We know that there were at least six, but possibly more when they first arrived.

Major Tyler
February 16th, 2005, 12:56 AM
Here is a picture of the Daedalus if anyone is interested...SPOILER, such as it is.

http://img101.exs.cx/img101/483/daedalus2zr.jpg

Goa'uld Jedi
February 19th, 2005, 04:58 AM
What i don't get, is why the have to get crappy nukes from the genaii. If earth has a ZPM why don't they have earth send atlantis a couple of ICBM's. :D

Replicarter
February 19th, 2005, 05:14 AM
Because they dont have the ZPM now, they had it a few minits while they powerd up the gate, and then probably took it right away to power up the daedalus to send it to atlantis. And also, Atlantis has no way of contacting earth in the first place to ask them to send anything.

spg_1983
February 19th, 2005, 12:53 PM
What i don't get, is why the have to get crappy nukes from the genaii. If earth has a ZPM why don't they have earth send atlantis a couple of ICBM's. :D
they did! they sent 6 mark VI naquada unhanced warheads, everet just didnt keep any in reserve so they all got taken out at once.

corey2002
February 19th, 2005, 01:22 PM
We know that there were at least six, but possibly more when they first arrived.
when did we learn that?

spg_1983
February 19th, 2005, 01:27 PM
when did we learn that?
the first shot of the jumper bay showed 4 straight ahead and the nose of one off to the left and since there were two in each row, one on top of another there are probabky two to the left meaning six. also for as big as atlantis is, 6 jumpers doesnt seem like very many, there are probably more elsewhere in the city

Feli
February 24th, 2005, 09:12 AM
I usually don't post questions in ep threads before I've read the entire thread but having just fought my way through all of Moebius...

Is that thing with inoculating people with the Ancient gene new? Because if not I'd really like to know why they didn't do that for the entire Atlantis crew.
It's possible Everret explained it, I had major difficulties understanding the character. And boy, what an obnoxious guy! There was absolutely no reason for him to be so antagonistic - and then turn into Mr. Nice and Sweet all of a sudden. What brought that turnaround about?

I was rather confused by the fight scenes, couldn't really distinguish in all the fireworks what was happening.

All in all a mediocre ending to an otherwise pretty fab season.

ShadowMaat
February 24th, 2005, 09:49 AM
I wondered the same thing, Feli. The inoculation thing was introduced in Hide & Seek. Beckett had been working on it back in Antarctica, but wasn't allowed to conduct human trials. Rodney was his guinea pig. There was a comment about it only working on 40-something percent of people who got the injection.

Apparently inoculation study continued in Antarctica. As it was explained to me by someone here, what probaby happened is that Col. Jackhole's team was comprised only of those who were successfully inoculated.

Feli
February 24th, 2005, 01:44 PM
Ah, okay. Thanks, Shadow.

Blue Banrigh
February 25th, 2005, 03:10 AM
I was kinda expecting the Daedalus throughout the episode, kinda disappointed that it didn't show up.

But I loved the Seige bit, with the darkening of the city and the shooting of the flares. With all the firefight it kinda looked like the Battle of Britain.

Can't wait to see how the Atlantis team get out of this sticky situation.

You should have heard my reaction when my brother and father watched this episode. First yelling at the cliff-hanger and then lots of cursing when they found out they had to wait a while for Season Two. :D

Vega
March 1st, 2005, 10:18 AM
The Seige part I & II were pretty good episodes. Why did we have to see the Genii again? IMHO they've already beaten that dead horse, and it's just the 1st season. I'll admit at the beginning of the season I was really starting to hate Atlantis, now it's starting to grow on me:). One thing that really bugs me in SGA is the fact that all the military men besides Sheppard are always portrayed so one-dimensionally. As someone who's actually served in the armed forces, I would never want someone like Sheppard on my team. Following orders is very important in the field, even if you don't agree with your CO. Teyla always seems so flat to me, I wouldn't miss her at all if she met her demise. Poor Ford!! :( Loved the interaction between Mckay and Zelenka, and that whole stimulant scene. Favorite line: Carson: "Okay, Snippy! I'll get you another stimulator." Overall a very good way to end the season!

Blue Banrigh
March 1st, 2005, 03:16 PM
Bates isn't one-dimensional, actually I quite like him. He has his own set of rights and wrongs. I thought he was justified in his concerns about Teyla going to the new Alpha site, Sheppard should have listened to him.

Easter Lily
March 1st, 2005, 04:07 PM
The Seige part I & II were pretty good episodes. Why did we have to see the Genii again? IMHO they've already beaten that dead horse, and it's just the 1st season.

Have they now? In what way... I don't feel like we've seen the end of Genii annoyance yet... besides it's not like we saw Kolya again... it was a different Genii


I'll admit at the beginning of the season I was really starting to hate Atlantis, now it's starting to grow on me:). One thing that really bugs me in SGA is the fact that all the military men besides Sheppard are always portrayed so one-dimensionally. As someone who's actually served in the armed forces, I would never want someone like Sheppard on my team. Following orders is very important in the field, even if you don't agree with your CO.

But doesn't that make Sheppard less one-dimensional...?? If he said, "Yes, m'am, no, ma'am all the time", wouldn't that make him more one-dimensional. So he's not the perfect soldier... The fact that he is flawed and obviously has issues makes him a lot more interesting in my book. It creates conflict... increases drama... not ideal in real life perhaps... but makes for exciting television...

Vega
March 1st, 2005, 08:22 PM
Have they now? In what way... I don't feel like we've seen the end of Genii annoyance yet... besides it's not like we saw Kolya again... it was a different Genii

I simply don't see the Genii as formidable enemies. Why would they be so against the Atlantis team, especially if they have the same enemy as powerful as the wraith? Even the System Lords were willing to go against Anubis! It just isn't a very good way of running defense.


But doesn't that make Sheppard less one-dimensional...?? If he said, "Yes, m'am, no, ma'am all the time", wouldn't that make him more one-dimensional. So he's not the perfect soldier... The fact that he is flawed and obviously has issues makes him a lot more interesting in my book. It creates conflict... increases drama... not ideal in real life perhaps... but makes for exciting television...

I like Sheppard as a character. All the characters are flawed, that's what makes them interesting, and he doesn't have to be perfect to be a good soldier, I just wouldn't want him in real life is all. But you're right, he is good for the series:)

macktheknife
March 2nd, 2005, 03:20 AM
Flak guns arn't that big, if they can fit a rail gun through they could fit a flak gun. Hell, they could bring a few phalanx ciws through, would have been much better than some crappy 50 cal, plus they are automatic, which suprised me about the railguns, you need some dude on them to fire? Rail guns are cool though. They should have brought some nuke SAM's as well. I am very suprised that after hearing atlantis is about to get smashed by 3 hive ships, that they only sent 6 nukes? I would want as many nukes as i could get my hands on.

Asteroid attack doesnt make sense, why not just send some darts or scout darts on remote control, taking asteroids would cost time and resources,and why wernt the nuke mines able to be remotly detonated, instead of just some crap "proximity" thing that could be set off by anything.

This was a good season ender, yet after the lack of a cliffhanger in moebius p2, this cliffhanger (which will be part 3) suprised me a little. All together it was okay, but not brilliant.

The Eye and The Storm were a better 2 parter, and The Eye was the best ep of the season. How long till the next ep is shown?

And whats with the small reply count? Has this not been shown in the US?

FoolishPleasure
March 3rd, 2005, 07:53 PM
And whats with the small reply count? Has this not been shown in the US?
The US is only up to "Letters From Pegasus" - which is on tomorrow night. We haven't caught up to the rest of the world yet. ;)

macktheknife
March 3rd, 2005, 08:38 PM
sucks to be you then. :( australia hasnt even started.

Blue Banrigh
March 3rd, 2005, 11:03 PM
Do you think the Dr Kusinagi Beckett mentioned is the Japanese scientist in "Letters From Pegasus"?

macktheknife
March 4th, 2005, 12:43 AM
I would have thought that, considering that i think she is the only Japanese person i have seen so far, and is named quite a few times, i would think it is her. Why put in some nameless random instead, who just happens to be japanese and a scientist? I dont think it would make sense for it to be someone else.

Dr Worm
March 6th, 2005, 06:30 PM
Is it July yet!
Is it July yet!
Is it July yet!
Is it July yet!
Is it July yet!

Did Everett bring coffee with him? McKay wants to know! :eek:

It’s too bad for McKay and Zelenka that they are the only people who do everything, but GOOD FOR US, lets see more of Zelenka.

tekguy2
March 6th, 2005, 07:35 PM
I don't know if I can hold out until it airs in the US.

NoDot
March 7th, 2005, 02:06 PM
I wrote a simple review of this episode for some reason (I honestly have no idea), so let me know bad you people think it is.

sshspooky
March 9th, 2005, 01:11 AM
i have to say this was an awesome finale. the battle sequences were excellent. the stryline was excellent. people from earth coming was excellent. all the characters were excellent. the cliff hanger was great to see.

it doesn't get much better then this.

Cronus
March 9th, 2005, 01:36 AM
This finale is the result of the last 8 seasons of stargate. They have explored with different ideas, made some mistakes along the way, and come off with an absolutely genius finale. :D

I think this is the best finale of stargate and probably the best finale we will ever see. It is sheer quality. As mentioned they got every aspect of the episode right. Even with all the technology and support Atlantis is still the underdog, which is essential to stargate, and we are left wondering how anyone in Atlantis will get out alive. I mean we see almost all of them surrendering and Sheppard on a suicide mission. Genius of a cliff hanger. :D

SEREN LWCH (MAL)
March 9th, 2005, 01:50 AM
This finale is the result of the last 8 seasons of stargate. They have explored with different ideas, made some mistakes along the way, and come off with an absolutely genius finale. :D

I think this is the best finale of stargate and probably the best finale we will ever see. It is sheer quality. As mentioned they got every aspect of the episode right. Even with all the technology and support Atlantis is still the underdog, which is essential to stargate, and we are left wondering how anyone in Atlantis will get out alive. I mean we see almost all of them surrendering and Sheppard on a suicide mission. Genius of a cliff hanger. :D

Great episode! I hate tense cliffhangers though :( (GateGipsy agreed with me via text on that 1 ;) )

LOL though i really think Weir should give sheppard a good telling off! " Ok you decided you had to go on a suicide mission. I can exept that. But why leave a gap of 6-7 months between doing it?!?" :D

Cronus
March 9th, 2005, 01:59 AM
Great episode! I hate tense cliffhangers though :( (GateGipsy agreed with me via text on that 1 ;) )

LOL though i really think Weir should give sheppard a good telling off! " Ok you decided you had to go on a suicide mission. I can exept that. But why leave a gap of 6-7 months between doing it?!?" :D

Fair point. I prefer to have each season end fully and then they start another. The only problem is that I'm always nervous they won't start another season. (I'm paranoid). At least this way they have to do another season. :p

Good point about that Weir thing. Also, did you see how nervous Beckett looked in the control room; it was because he knew he'd have to pilot the other Puddle Jumper if it works. Poor Guy. :D

My dad through the remote at the TV because I forgot to tell him that it was the second part of a three parter. He was mad. :D

tarnsman
March 9th, 2005, 02:22 AM
i have to say this was an awesome finale. the battle sequences were excellent. the stryline was excellent. people from earth coming was excellent. all the characters were excellent. the cliff hanger was great to see.

it doesn't get much better then this.

I totally agree, a stunning finale to a excellent first series...and dont you hate those words "To be Continued"

Cronus
March 9th, 2005, 07:32 AM
Does anyone else think this was movie quality? Personally I thought it was way too good to be made for a TV show. The three parter of the Siege would have made for an excellent film. Everything just seemed to be bigger and more real than a TV show should be able to produce.

Sorry, I just can't get over how brilliant this episode was. :)

Anubis
March 9th, 2005, 08:13 AM
OUTSTANDING episode. I have absolutely NO idea how this episode could have been done any better than what it has been, all I have left to do is compliment it, and demand some answers to questions. :P


Loved the opening scenes of the arrival from Earth -- "General O'Neill sends his compliments to a job well done, you are relieved." Great line from Everett there, I wasn't building up to actually LIKE his character, but he did, sort of know what he was doing, with the help from McKay and Zelenka. :P When it comes to saving the city, you turn to the scientist.

Good scene between Sheppard/Everett -- discussing what he did about Sumner. ;) Really good quality stuff.

Some great action from Teyla AND Ford, for a change, I was really happy to see Ford get some good action. "Next time, you can be bait." Really good stuff. :)

Enjoyed seeing how Carson portrayed his Ancient gene, thinking he'd cause more trouble like he has before. Poor guy - he must really not like this gene stuff. :P

Can't get enough of McKay's sarcasm, though. "You turn up with your brush-cuts and your big guns, but when it comes to saving the city, you turn to the scientist." Great line there. Couldn't help but laugh at that.

As usual, some GREAT screen-time for Sheppard, loved the chair scenes where McKay had trouble starting it up. The previous scene with the drones, though - on the first wave, was brilliant. Kind of glad there wasn't many really, added some more impact to the episode. ;)

Those big, honkin' guns are REALLY cool. :D A great 10,000 shots in one clip, that's a big clip. Great guns, and loved the shots on Ford with the gun.

Great camera perspective around the city, seeing different parts of it - about time, I might add. :) I hope we'll continue to explore more of the city in season two.

Didn't they finish that nuclear bomb, just a BIT too quick - with perfect timing too? Lucky, yet predicible. ;)

There's a lot of questions posed, too. What will happen to Ford? , What happened to Teyla , What happened to Everett? and Will they actually evacuate? -- VERY interesting stuff.

I have to compliment the special effects .. they are SUPERB. I've never seen better. I don't know how you managed it, really, especially since budgets begin to fall by the end of a season. The ending explains a LOT, and it's just really, really great. :)


You can't seriously end a season like that ... it's pure evil. :P "I'm going in." I loved that scene, but I didn't as we have to wait some time for the third installment.

Blown away, great episode. Much better than the SG-1 S8 finale, by FAR. ;)

Metarock Sam
March 9th, 2005, 09:35 AM
OUTSTANDING episode. I have absolutely NO idea how this episode could have been done any better than what it has been, all I have left to do is compliment it, and demand some answers to questions. :P


Loved the opening scenes of the arrival from Earth -- "General O'Neill sends his compliments to a job well done, you are relieved." Great line from Everett there, I wasn't building up to actually LIKE his character, but he did, sort of know what he was doing, with the help from McKay and Zelenka. :P When it comes to saving the city, you turn to the scientist.

Good scene between Sheppard/Everett -- discussing what he did about Sumner. ;) Really good quality stuff.

Some great action from Teyla AND Ford, for a change, I was really happy to see Ford get some good action. "Next time, you can be bait." Really good stuff. :)

Enjoyed seeing how Carson portrayed his Ancient gene, thinking he'd cause more trouble like he has before. Poor guy - he must really not like this gene stuff. :P

Can't get enough of McKay's sarcasm, though. "You turn up with your brush-cuts and your big guns, but when it comes to saving the city, you turn to the scientist." Great line there. Couldn't help but laugh at that.

As usual, some GREAT screen-time for Sheppard, loved the chair scenes where McKay had trouble starting it up. The previous scene with the drones, though - on the first wave, was brilliant. Kind of glad there wasn't many really, added some more impact to the episode. ;)

Those big, honkin' guns are REALLY cool. :D A great 10,000 shots in one clip, that's a big clip. Great guns, and loved the shots on Ford with the gun.

Great camera perspective around the city, seeing different parts of it - about time, I might add. :) I hope we'll continue to explore more of the city in season two.

Didn't they finish that nuclear bomb, just a BIT too quick - with perfect timing too? Lucky, yet predicible. ;)

There's a lot of questions posed, too. What will happen to Ford? , What happened to Teyla , What happened to Everett? and Will they actually evacuate? -- VERY interesting stuff.

I have to compliment the special effects .. they are SUPERB. I've never seen better. I don't know how you managed it, really, especially since budgets begin to fall by the end of a season. The ending explains a LOT, and it's just really, really great. :)


You can't seriously end a season like that ... it's pure evil. :P "I'm going in." I loved that scene, but I didn't as we have to wait some time for the third installment.

Blown away, great episode. Much better than the SG-1 S8 finale, by FAR. ;)

What he said. I love this episode s much and it had a great cliffhanger at the end. Now I gotta wait to long noooooo I just cant wait.

Elinor
March 9th, 2005, 11:24 AM
As Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons might say
"Best season finale.... EVER!" :)

Major Clanger
March 9th, 2005, 11:53 AM
First let me say that I absolutely adored this ep. Fantastic. Wonderful cliffhanger.

But...

It is bad enough that we have to have Bates set up constantly in conflict with Sheppard. I never think it is realistic, and to be honest oftentimes I want to slap Shep. he is an experienced military officer, which is not to say that he should blindly toe the military line, but that he should understand where Bates is coming from.

Colonel E - same thing. I Am soooooooo sick of seeing Cliché-military-person on this show that I am seriously going to pop an artery one time. Sumner was bad enough (the way the writers treated him, not the other actors, and certainly not his actor) but Col.E.... aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhh!

Is that really how civilians think that professional military people behave? really? honestly?

I didn't think so. Luckily he sort of softened up, but how the flaming norah could the writers get away with 3rd rate fic-like OCs like Col.E?

I can't even talk about him any more. A lot of what he did was ok though, and finally Liz and Shep realised his worth. which is good.

Loved the effects, the tracer rounds when they were firing at the attacking darts was fantastic. The soldiers didn't really seemed fired up to me though, but nonetheless, fantastic.

Teyla bugged me as usual. But at this stage she only has to be on screen for a nanosecond to bug me. To much to hope that she was on a sandwich for a wraith?

Rodders and Dr.Z were on top form, loved Rodney snarking at Dr. Beckett. Fantastic stuff. I would have liked to see the pair of them hallucinating a bit towards the end of the ep - going without sleep does that for lots of people.

But oh my, what a cliffhanger. Fantastico.

(oh and sooooooooooooooo relieved that there was no "special moment" for Liz and Shep. I probably would have had to swear off Atlantis for life if they had)

ShadowMaat
March 9th, 2005, 12:08 PM
As I said earlier in the thread, I've seen plenty of hard-nose by-the-book jarhead characters to be able to appreciate the good ones when I see them. Col. Jackhole was not good. He was every bad bit of every bad cliche of the military times AT LEAST ten. Ye gods. There was not a single redeemable thing about him as far as I'm concerned and while I am loathe to wish death on ANY characters, I would not miss this guy in the slightest if he never appeared again. This guy makes Kavanagh look like the nicest, friendliest character on the show.

And I still think he sounded like PDL when he first came through the gate.

Teyla... yeah. I used to be content with just finding her boring and ignoring her whenever she was on screen, but now she annoys me every time I see her. She doesn't even have to say anything.

Ye gods, writers, what were you thinking?? Nevermind, I know the answer: T&A. I pity the actress that she is so misused...

And back to the military thing... R Lee Ermey, anyone? Love the guy to pieces, and he knows how to take a hard-ass jarhead and make it his OWN! And you love him for it. He scares the hell out of you, but you love him anyway. :)

Well, he scares the hell out of ME, anyway. ;)

Major Clanger
March 9th, 2005, 12:16 PM
It just really gets up my nose to see misuse of potentially fantastic and groundbreaking characters like that. I was in the military....

no!!! you all shout, surely not!!!....

... and I have to say that I did encounter a couple of clichés. But they were all no hopers in dead end places.

But then, given the cliché (at that time, at least) about female soldiers, It's somewhat a surprise to me to discover that I am not, in fact, a hairy arsed lesbian in comfortable shoes.

Oh, and I loved that the scientists were not only given the chance, but took it up, to defend Atlantis.

McKay is a bit tasty when he's schlepping a P90 around.

smallgirl
March 9th, 2005, 03:53 PM
I loved this episode BUT I have got to agree with MajorClanger and ShadowMaat that the only bad thing about it was Col. Everett. Not only was his attitude when he first came through the Gate annoying and unrealistic but his voice nearly gave me a migraine. I don't know what sort of accent that is but that actor needs to get a voice coach badly. I know there have been military morons from time to time on SG-1 but they were usually in more bureaucratic and less operational roles and since Hammond or O'Neill usually butted heads with them, I couldn't work out why O'Neill had sent this guy through the Gate to Atlantis. I understand that he was given orders to assume military command and relieve Weir of her position but there was no need to be so abrupt about it. It really shouldn't have taken Sheppard telling him that he would get better co-operation from the Atlantis team if he kept Weir in the loop about it. Besides, surely it makes tactical sense to have a briefing with the former commander of a post when you arrive to take over? Yes, he had Sheppard to appraise him of the current situation but then at first he wasn't really taking much notice of Sheppard either. The SGC had come up with a strategy for defending Atlantis and it needed implementing quickly because the danger was imminent but still you don't get anything done unless you communicate properly with people. It's weird that SGA whilst being soo good at showing how Sheppard has been thrown in at the deep end in taking over military command of Atlantis when he doesn't have all the experience required then chooses to portray a higher ranked and more experienced officer displaying a complete lack of common sense when it comes to command decisions. Is it to make Sheppard look good, I wonder? If so, I think it is counter productive. Sheppard works well because he has believable flaws that are consistent with his character background and personality, it undermines that to try and make out that he is the only one who is capable of having good ideas in military situations. A character comes across as weak if he only looks good in a situation because the opposing character is unrealistically bad. I am glad that at least Everett was shown to be flexible enough to change his attitude when shown that there were alternatives. The other thing was the weird and rather icky conversation that he had with Sheppard about Sumner. It was just highly inappropriate given the circumstances. There is a time and place for that type of conversation and that wasn't it. It was nice from the Sheppard P.O.V to have it confirmed that Sheppard is still thinking about and trying to deal with what he had to do about Sumner. We had already had strong hints all season that it was weighing heavily on his mind and to have it admitted was good. However again, in order to get over a point about Sheppard's character development shouldn't necessitate making another character look stupid. First Everett is all we don't have time to chat about things we need to get on with the business of defending Atlantis and then all of sudden he's taking time out to have a chat about how he is aggrieved with Sheppard for shooting a good mate of his, WHAT?

Anyway enough of what was silly about this episode because everything else rocked! I am constantly amazed at how much they manage to cram into an Atlantis episode without ever feeling overwhelmed or shortchanged on each little bit. I thought the pace was excellent. Loved McKay, Zelenka and Beckett as usual. I am never disappointed whenever any of them are on screen and having scenes with all three just feels like Christmas has come extra early. I loved McKay and Zelenka's little gripe about how the scientists are always ignored til they are needed and they are always needed. Liked the little touch of them spotting the nukes which just confirmed they were right. Very good consistency and realism to show how tired McKay and Zelenka were, since we have seen in previous episodes how McKay has been burning the candle at both ends. Showing Beckett giving them stims to keep them going was great. They may have super brains but their bodies are very human. Poor Beckett and the chair, Major Sheppard is always busy doing something else when the AT gene is required to operate something. It is fun to see Beckett get flustered as usual but it's a shame that we are not seeing Sheppard utilise the reason he was brought to Atlantis in the first place. However I guess that's consistency as well because nothing about Sheppard's Atlantis experience is like what it was intended to be.

Ford being shown in his role as a weapon's specialist was good. It took a whole season to get there but it was a nice touch. He got all interested and excited about the new enhanced weapons Everett's team had brought which made sense. Nice little light moment with him acting as bait for the Wraith with Sheppard too. Also I liked him taking off and replacing the men who had been taken at the gun post.

Weir was very good also. She continued her cool head under pressure stint of the last few episodes. I am very glad she finally got to use her diplomatic skills by going to negotiate with the Genii. She handled that situation extremely well and despite the fact that she was arguing from a position of complete logic, we know from past experience that the Genii aren't the most rational bunch of people so it wasn't easy. Her speach towards the end was very good and echoed last week. She was clearly very unhappy about Sheppard's suicide mission but she aquised quickly because she knew it was the only way and because I think she's had to unfortunately get rather used to losing people of late. McKay was upset also, although I felt his question to Weir was mostly rhetorical, he was just expressing his dismay. Poor Beckett just went rather quiet because he knows it could be him next.

Teyla, well at least Col.Everett showed better judgement at handling her situation. He wasn't over the top in cutting her out of the loop like he was with Weir, and he had very good cause to and was rather polite and respectful about it. After her sensing of the Wraith he warmed up to her remarkably quickly and they were quite chummy by the end of things. You could almost start a Teyla/Everett ship. Except I think the guy is now Wraithbait. As for Teyla going missing and the shots being fired and all the dead people, well maybe Col.Everett should have thawed less quickly? We'll see.

I can't wait for season 2!

Cronus
March 10th, 2005, 10:55 AM
Rather than get a nuke from the genii, why didn't they overload a naquadah generator and fling that up at the Hive ships?

That way Sheppard would have had enough time to get away, we wouldn't need the genii's help and everyone's happy. Surely the explosion would have been big enough, I mean, it was pretty impressive in Hot Zone when they did it. :D

Jonzey
March 12th, 2005, 02:11 PM
Rather than get a nuke from the genii, why didn't they overload a naquadah generator and fling that up at the Hive ships?

That way Sheppard would have had enough time to get away, we wouldn't need the genii's help and everyone's happy. Surely the explosion would have been big enough, I mean, it was pretty impressive in Hot Zone when they did it. :D
They need them to power the city.

Anyway I thought it was a great episode. One of the best of the season. Lovely effects and storyline. Didn't think Everett was that bad in the end, hated him first time I saw the epsiode though. Hate cliffhangers though.

Cronus
March 12th, 2005, 02:14 PM
They need them to power the city.


Yeah, but they could go without power for a few days until the Daedalus drops off new supplies. Also, wouldn't Everett have brought a load more with him, maybe not of the suped up ones, but he should have brought a few spares. Besides which would you rather lose, power for a few days or Sheppard? :)

zen.monki
March 13th, 2005, 01:57 PM
Umm... have I missed something? Has this episode already aired? The release date in the guide says 05.03.25 and I've not seen it yet.

http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/120.shtml

zen.monki
March 15th, 2005, 01:11 PM
I assume that the awkward silence after my question means one of three things:
a) I have asked a very stupid question and that my answer lies within the silence.
b) No one is reading this thread anymore.
c) People are ignoring me for some reason.

My guess is (a).

smallgirl
March 15th, 2005, 01:49 PM
I assume that the awkward silence after my question means one of three things:
a) I have asked a very stupid question and that my answer lies within the silence.
b) No one is reading this thread anymore.
c) People are ignoring me for some reason.

My guess is (a).

It's aired elsewhere. Like in the U.K and in Canada and other people have downloaded the eps from the net.

Matt G
March 15th, 2005, 04:20 PM
OK...a week after it aired in the UK...I finally get my hands on this ep!

1. Add my name to the 'Everett should be a Wraith snack' list

2. So...the Atlantis crew decide try and blag a nuke off the Genii - given the circumstances, not that bad an idea! Slight problem, namely the Genii! Weir STILL managed to blag the nuke though. Drink well earned! :)

3. Big up to the VFX crew! Smooth work!

4. Like Sheppard's monologue at the end.

5. Who exactly was this ep supposed to be in memory of?

Avalar
March 16th, 2005, 03:09 PM
Anyone know when season 2 (And hence Siege Pt.3) airs?

Dr Worm
March 20th, 2005, 08:20 PM
I was watching season 4 of Babylon 5 recently and there is an episode (epp. 10 0r 11 I think) that has the actor who plays Col. Everett as the second in command of the Mars resistance and his voice was almost the same.

Darkhelmet
March 22nd, 2005, 08:57 AM
well even though i haven't seen it yet (airs this friday) I have read some of the transcript and i and just so excited. I can't wait to see it. But i just hate when they end a season on a to be continued. It makes waiting for the summer so much more unbearable.

Darkhelmet
March 22nd, 2005, 09:19 AM
also how big is the new flag ship of the earth fleet compared to promethse

Hywel
March 23rd, 2005, 10:26 AM
also how big is the new flag ship of the earth fleet compared to promethse
We don't actually get to see it. It hasn't arrived by the end - something else we have to wait for!

Giantevilhead
March 23rd, 2005, 06:44 PM
It was pretty stupid of them to use the nuke mines against the Wraith since they used a similar tactic against the Goa'uld and failed.

Darkhelmet
March 24th, 2005, 04:13 AM
yah i agree also i kind of like the new military guy. i seem to like that i know what i am going and i can do it kind of acting

Vega
March 24th, 2005, 07:43 PM
I actually enjoyed Col. Everett. I always enjoy the adversaries, they always bring life to the other characters. I also liked how he asked Mckay how long it was since he last slept (I am also wondering..was LFP the last time?). Did anyone happen to notice that David Orth had a guest appearance?! As long as they don't kill Zelenka or Beckett off, I'm happy!! I'd say all of my other favs are safe:) Despite my dislike for the Genii, I still enjoyed this ep. It was pretty good..

Avalar
March 25th, 2005, 06:04 PM
Everett is actually a pretty good character. Very realistic. I like how they didn't just shove him into the "hard-headed marine bigot" stereotype, although it seemed like that would be the case when the episode began.

DownFallAngel
March 25th, 2005, 07:14 PM
Great episode. Probably the best out of the entire season, IMO.

One question: Did Teyla shoot those men? Or was she kidnapped? I think she shot them.

Also, is this were Ford gets experimented on into becoming a new breed of Wraith-Human super soldier?

SciFiGeek
March 25th, 2005, 07:19 PM
Can I be one of the first people from the US to say wow. Wow. I mean, just...wow.

After Reckoning, I was hoping Siege would be half as good as those couple of episodes, plus I kept hearing about people from the UK and Canada saying how amazing Siege was going to be. And while I don't think Siege could ever be as good as Reckoning--you need 8 years of back story and brilliant complexity and development of the mythos--but the awe factor was the same. Watching tonight's episode, IMO, was as exciting as watching Reckoning. And that's saying something.

I felt the first half was a bit slow and had a harder time getting involved (though unfortunately, that could be contributed to the fact that I was more spoiled than I wanted to be going into it) but part 2 just made everything better.

I loved the character of Everett; much more than I ever thought he would. The first half, I was thinking what a presumptuous jerk he was, and was agonizing over his interactions with Sheppard and Weir, which came across as so patronizing. (And I was giggling every time he interacted with McKay, who is probably the only one that can really get away with being so rude to him.) But I love that the character ended up being so descent...and was sad that they killed him off right as he was becoming cool. I love that they had introduction and development of such character over the course of one episode! (Reminds me a bit of the intro of Col. Potter on MASH.)

Everything else...I don't know where to start. I liked the way they worked in the inclusion of the Genii--immediately thought there was no way it was going to go well. I thought for sure the episode would leave off with us still hanging as to the fate of Weir. And the fact that she successfully managed to negotiate the deal...hey, first the first time I actually genuinely liked the character (as opposed to previously, when I wavered between indifference and wanting to like her.) Go Weir!

Like Reckoning, I like that all the major characters go to do something--specifically, they all got to do what they best. I was even enjoying Teyla and Ford somewhat, who both were contributing exactly how they should. Meanwhile, Weir got to practice her diplomacy skills, Sheppard got to use his Ancient Gene, struggle to work with Everett and prove why he deserves to be military leader of Atlantis (I loved when he told Everett that he supported Weir.) And McKay got to snark at everyone (especially Beckett and Zelenka!) and be his loveable, whiny, scientist self. It's so nice to finally have a series where my favorite character isn't relegated to supporting during major story arc plotlines.

The fire fight during the first attack by the Wraith darts brought chills; that was very cool!

It makes me so glad we got this episode; because SG1 already hit its peak a few weeks ago with Reckoning...and everything since then has been kind of...eh. But The Seige...man, I am so looking forward to second season of Atlantis. *sigh* I just wish we didn't have to wait four more months to see the conclusion.

Anyway, I haven't read through the thread yet, so I'm not sure what other people thought of this episode. At least I can finally stop avoiding spoiler threads. :)

GEWbert
March 25th, 2005, 07:27 PM
WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW!!!! :D

Amazing episode. Simply amazing. I especially loved where the camera zoomed out of the city and then back in. Simply stunning. The fighting with the Darts, the rail guns, everything.

I'm still pissed as hell at the Genii. Damn *******s didn't even finish their bombs. Morons. Anyway, Everett is a bit irritating. I hope he's dead. His attitude is what irritated me the most, though he kinda grew on me in the end with his comments to Dr. Weir.

Zelenka and McKay, words cannot describe. Great, Great, GREAT :).

I so have guessed (without being spoiled, though i'm putting it in spoiler tags) that JUST as the bomb in Sheppard's PJ is about to detonate, the Daedulus shows up and beams him off. 90 bucks. Can't loose Sheppard now can we :D

I SOO hate being left in the air about everying. Great cliffhanger, just like "The Storm" and "The Eye"

Though a question, what happened to Cowan? Who was the new Genii?

Bobthespirit
March 25th, 2005, 07:28 PM
Overall, a strong season finale. And I credit them for making the protagonists look more screwed than SG1 ever has been in the middle of a split episode.

And at first it seemed Everett was going to be an obnoxious military jerk which would have been really annoying, but he turned out to be amenable to reason and likeable. Though, like Sumner, clearly marked for death.

We know, from an outside of the show perspective, that Sheppard isn't going to die. And it looks like all the characters are about two minutes away from being killed. So it seems like something big and unexpected is going to happen right at the beginning of episode three.

And as long as they aren't doing another 'Ascended/Asgard/insert your own higher power comes to the rescue' plot, it should be something really cool.

Visually, the combat scenes were really stunning.

ancient_phoenix
March 25th, 2005, 07:57 PM
WWWOOOOOOOWWWW!!!!

That was an amazing episode. Didin't actually turn out the way I wanted at the end. I mean I wanted to see one of the Wraith Hive Ships blown up. But overall it was very well played out.

I liked the Everett character, I thought he was going to be a jerkk in the begining but he turned out to be cool. He would make a nice new character in the Season 2 eps. His humor is some-what like O'Niel's.

The one thing I don't understand is what happened to Teyla?
Was she kidnapped by the Wraith?
Or was she the one who shot the men?

Me, personally, that she gunned them down.

Also what's going to happen to Sheppard...obviously he's going to die.

However, I saw some of the trailers for season 2 and sheppard was there, so i think that means he is still...will be still alive.

yey!!

But why??!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do we have to wait for July??/

I want to see them so bad..
Of course they have to shot it first...i understand but waiting for July will feel like an eternity.

zellus
March 25th, 2005, 08:10 PM
I think that tayla gunned them down and that the new ship we have yet to see will have asgard beaming technology that will save sheppard in the last seconds before he tries to blow up one of the wraith ships. I am dissapointed that we will not see the next episode for 4 months but I have been watching sg1 long enough to know that this was a possibility. All in all im happy with the episodes but I wish they would have finished it out.

alexia_star_2002
March 25th, 2005, 08:13 PM
I think that tayla gunned them down and that the new ship we have yet to see will have asgard beaming technology that will save sheppard in the last seconds before he tries to blow up one of the wraith ships. I am dissapointed that we will not see the next episode for 4 months but I have been watching sg1 long enough to know that this was a possibility. All in all im happy with the episodes but I wish they would have finished it out.

Yeah I know....I was so mad when it didn't finish.

not so ancient
March 25th, 2005, 08:37 PM
My random tired-ass not so ancient thoughts, quickly before it storms, which always knocks out my power.

Colonel Everett = Purina Wraith Chow. He did grow to respect Weir by the end though. That's good.

Did Weir kick some ass going to the Genii all brave and defiant, or what? Love me some Elizabeth.

Where's Teyla? :::wibbles:::

FORD! :::wibbles some more::::

Rodney is probably about to literally die of exhaustion. Poor woobie! :::pets him, and slips him a mickey injection:::

Radek rocks. Carson rocked too but he needs to stop being a wuss about the Chair.

IS IT JULY YET? :eek:

ShadowMaat
March 25th, 2005, 08:46 PM
Also what's going to happen to Sheppard...obviously he's going to die.
Obviously?! Umm... No. I can think of at least four separate ways for him to survive and considering that Shep is the main lead/hero of the show, I find it impossible to even conceive the idea that he WOULDN'T survive.

I mean, come on- how many times have we seen SG-1 or its various members in a situation where they were "obviously" going to die, only to have the day saved in the very next ep? ;) And Daniel doesn't count. :P

I was again impressed by the VFX. The battle for the city was truly impressive and had a certain grim beauty to it.

I would LOVE for Teyla to go darkside and be possessed by a Wraith, even temporarily. I'm sorry and I know it's too cliche, but it's also the only time I've ever found the character remotely interesting. *sigh*

Ford was great. LOVED his bit about "Next time, YOU can be the bait!" :D The situation didn't look too good for him there at the end, but my fingers are crossed for good character development in the coming season. :) Yay for Ford! I hope...

ancient_phoenix
March 25th, 2005, 09:27 PM
Well me and my friend were just talking about how the new ship will posses the asgard beaming technology and at the last sec might beam Sheppard out. Like today in SG-1 when O'Niel and the others got bombed and you saw the white light...that might happen and sheppard might wake up in the Ship....just a guess...

IS IT JULY YET??????!!!!!!!

keshou
March 25th, 2005, 09:40 PM
The battle over the city was amazing. Fantastic special effects. Moebius 2 gets a few natives coming over the hill and Atlantis gets the "Shock and Awe". Lots of extras, lots of firepower - it was pretty impressive. :D

Colonel Everett was such a cliche but he ended up adding an interesting dimension to the mix. I liked that he came to respect Weir and I was pretty impressed with her in this myself. I think she almost comes off better when she's standing up to a Colonel Everett (or the Goa'uld) than when she's trying to be the main leader of Atlantis.

Rodney and Zelenka try and save the day but don't quite make it. That whole bit where the four scientists are standing at the railing grumbling about being left out of the meeting had me LOL.

I kind of liked Teyla in this one as well. I have to say I'm even growing fond of her little fighting displays with the sticks. Hmmm.....wonder if she will end up being captured by the Wraith and taken to one of the hive ships.

Shep's going to survive of course (probably when the Daedalus arrives) and I figure before Siege III ends he's going to have to kill Everett to save him from the Wraith. Just like Sumner. They love these full circle things.

Shep seemed so young in this compared to Colonel Everett. It makes you realize how young he was to be the ranking military officer at Atlantis. Guess this may change in S2.

kadosho
March 25th, 2005, 10:08 PM
Its truly insane how much they could cram into one hour.
Awesome battles, visuals, action, and moments we wont forget.
But what bites the most? seeing TBC!!?

Hyperspace
March 25th, 2005, 10:24 PM
This episode ROCKED!

Merlin7
March 25th, 2005, 10:35 PM
The battle over the city was amazing. Fantastic special effects. Moebius 2 gets a few natives coming over the hill and Atlantis gets the "Shock and Awe". Lots of extras, lots of firepower - it was pretty impressive. :D

Colonel Everett was such a cliche but he ended up adding an interesting dimension to the mix. I liked that he came to respect Weir and I was pretty impressed with her in this myself. I think she almost comes off better when she's standing up to a Colonel Everett (or the Goa'uld) than when she's trying to be the main leader of Atlantis.

Rodney and Zelenka try and save the day but don't quite make it. That whole bit where the four scientists are standing at the railing grumbling about being left out of the meeting had me LOL.

I kind of liked Teyla in this one as well. I have to say I'm even growing fond of her little fighting displays with the sticks. Hmmm.....wonder if she will end up being captured by the Wraith and taken to one of the hive ships.

Shep's going to survive of course (probably when the Daedalus arrives) and I figure before Siege III ends he's going to have to kill Everett to save him from the Wraith. Just like Sumner. They love these full circle things.

Shep seemed so young in this compared to Colonel Everett. It makes you realize how young he was to be the ranking military officer at Atlantis. Guess this may change in S2.

I'm gonna save myself a bit of typing cause you touched on all the stuff I loved and thought of. Awesome Special effects. I hated Everett on sight but actually liked him by the end. And I agree about Weir, I liked her in this. She held her own. I also liked Shep sticking up for her and admitting he trusts her and respect her *Flashback to HOtZone* Teyla is quite the fighter, I must say. I had the same thought about Shep having to kill Everett and I would love to see that. Kinda don't want him saved by the Daedalus though. I'd like the writers to be more creative than that. LOL
And I had the same thought. That Shep seemed so YOUNG compared to Everett. Everett was supposed to be like 40. I know how old JOE is *Which still stuns me*. I know Shep is supposed to be like between 35 and 40 with Weir being around 35. But from day one she's struck me as around 40 with Shep closer to 30 and seeing Everett in the mix just made me think that more. Which works for me anyway. But..yeah..I digress.

Great ep. Wish it was July.

Oh..and Loved Rodney with Zalenka and the ticked off Scientists. LOL

GhostPoet
March 25th, 2005, 11:11 PM
There was only one word said at the To Be Continued

"NOOOooooooooooo!!!!!"

:)

aaobuttons
March 26th, 2005, 12:46 AM
Oh the many reasons why this was the best episode ever! It was so completely amazing. They packing in so many things in such a short time, and unlike w/ SG1 it all had a good pace to nothing felt rushed or packed in.

Ford and Teyla.... I actually liked them in this episode! They had a purpose, they knew what they were doing and they did it well. When I saw that Teyla was missing on that scan of the dead I was so excited... if she goes bad there is no way arround it, she is way more interesting with her "gift".

Rod, Zel, Beck... Love these guys! They bring a balance to everything, they are the ones that make this a completely different show than SG1, not just a copy. Their many great lines and situations have already been talked about in this thread, so I won't go over them again. Did anybody else wonder if Rodney was going to point his gun a Beckett when he was sitting in the chair and wouldn't focus? With his lack of sleep, I was kind of waiting for Rodney to snap and point the gun at him and go "I said focus!" or something! *g* I also liked how after all the "scientists save the day" stuff, Rodney can't make the chair work in the end and the "military" guy has to.

Weir.... I like her more and more every episode, they are really writing some good stuff for her.

Shep... WOW, has my opinion of him changed from just this 1 episode. I always liked him, he was a well written character and had been given ok stuff to work with, but this episode.... From the scene w/ him backing up Weir to his confrontation w/ Everett, to his final scenes from the chair on were just amazing. I still can't figure out if it was the writing that has me or if it was his acting.... All I know is that he has gone from my 10th fav character in the gate universe to my 1st in just 1 episode!\

Oh, and I just wanted to add my kudos to the Special Effects guys, that city scene was AMAZING! That has to be the best battle I've seen on gate. Oh and I put my vote in favor of the city scans.... I like being able to see where they are in relation to everyone else. It's kind of hard to realize how big that city is sometimes, but that really puts it into perspective.

SmartFox
March 26th, 2005, 12:56 AM
This was an awesome finale. I cant wait to July. The fight seen was awesome and the whole thing. The only problem i had was with Colonel Everett. First of all they bring in him for 1 episode then kill him off again like Sumner so Sheppard could be in charge again. Then they make him a standard military type and being sort of a jerk to Weir and Teyla but understandable. Then he does an instant turn around. I almost think it would of been better if they didn't bring him in at all.

Yukmouth
March 26th, 2005, 02:27 AM
What was the deal with the uniforms those Marines were wearing? They weren't MARPAT.

Why didn't they bring any surface to air missles like the stinger or a Vulcan Air Defense System? Also why do they continue to have people shooting at aircraft with rifles and carbines? ESPECIALLY a P90 of all things! I know it scifi but I can't suspend my belief for stuff like this.

Avalar
March 26th, 2005, 07:17 AM
One question - Sheppard is cloaked. How can we be so sure that the Daedalus will be able to detect a genuine cloaked Ancient ship? It'd be pretty hard to beam him out if they can't see him.

Then again, he might turn the cloak off if he sees the ship, and hail them and all that. But would Sheppard jeopardize his position like that? We'll have to wait till Part 3 to find out :D

Anyway, I knew this episode would receive positive feedback (I downloaded it a week before it aired because I wasn't able to see it on TV last night). It's truely a great episode and has one of the most stunning battle sequences seen on Stargate ever, SG-1 included (If not the most stunning, but the battle over Antarctica in Lost City II has its own merits as well). The character development was great, and I'm not so sure that Everett was killed. Did they show him dying? (Maybe they did, and I just don't remember).

kharn the betrayer
March 26th, 2005, 07:52 AM
When i 1st heard Colonel Everett's voise it reminded me of watching a badly dubbed Godzilla movie....... then it became bearable when the episode went on



and the night fight scene was amazing


and Weir has grown on me alot, any one who can negotiate while being bound and gagged gets my respect


Teyla had her hair pulled back while she was fighting FINALLY

iLemon
March 26th, 2005, 08:25 AM
Anyone know where I can get screencaps of moebius part 2??

lord-anubis
March 26th, 2005, 08:54 AM
What was the deal with the uniforms those Marines were wearing? They weren't MARPAT.

Why didn't they bring any surface to air missles like the stinger or a Vulcan Air Defense System? Also why do they continue to have people shooting at aircraft with rifles and carbines? ESPECIALLY a P90 of all things! I know it scifi but I can't suspend my belief for stuff like this.


probly beacsue they were planing on the nukes to destory the ships.


as for the uninform thats the US new camo uninform its made by compter or some thing like that im not sure

Fanwoman
March 26th, 2005, 09:50 AM
Also why do they continue to have people shooting at aircraft with rifles and carbines? ESPECIALLY a P90 of all things! I know it scifi but I can't suspend my belief for stuff like this.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found that goofy. I'm also glad I'm not the only one who thought it was nuts to use your most valuable and most limited resource--the mines--so recklessly. Proximity sensors? Why not leave the same Jumpers that deployed them near enough to activate them remotely? Then there's the whole 6 mines in space being useful problem...

Of course, had the mines worked, that would have been the end of the episode. :o

Still, the pacing and action were great.


Did anyone else worry for Zelenka when he left the chair room unarmed by himself or for Carson when McKay left him in the chair alone when the city was crawling with Wraith? I was left wondering if they had intended those scenes to cause worry or not. I also think it's odd that the chair is not in the tower. You'd think a thing like that would be centrally located.


Oh, and my theory as to why Cowen wasn't the one to interact with Weir is that, with all the FX and props and stuff, they couldn't afford a guest appearance by Colm Meaney. A line to explain his absence would have been nice. Something to explain what happened with Sora might also have been nice. Poor girl, looks like she's going to fall through the cracks.

ancient_phoenix
March 26th, 2005, 11:38 AM
The battle for the city was outstanding...it was INSANE!!

However..it does suck that the nukes got blown uo by the wraith asteroids.
And Weir...wow...thats the first time I've seen her pissed off. She was gonna beat the hell out of them Genni...or whatever they're called.

Teyla...why???

Why did she gun down the Air-men??
She did...didn't she??

John Preston
March 26th, 2005, 11:40 AM
One question - Sheppard is cloaked. How can we be so sure that the Daedalus will be able to detect a genuine cloaked Ancient ship? It'd be pretty hard to beam him out if they can't see him.


They have a puddle jumper.
That means they might have acquired a means to detect the cloaked Ancient ships, by studying how the cloak works on their puddle jumper.

GEWbert
March 26th, 2005, 12:02 PM
Probally not, i'm betting he just decloaks or something. We have to wait and see :)

And they were using the P90 and stuff because it actually is effective i think. Many bullets in a ship can still destroy it. What do you want them to do? Sit there and throw grenades?

Major Tyler
March 26th, 2005, 12:13 PM
What was the deal with the uniforms those Marines were wearing? They weren't MARPAT.They were wearing the urban variant of MARPAT.
Why didn't they bring any surface to air missles like the stinger or a Vulcan Air Defense System?They did.
Also why do they continue to have people shooting at aircraft with rifles and carbines? ESPECIALLY a P90 of all things!It probably wouldn't do much good, but a little is better than nothing. It's not like they'd have anything to lose.

Avalar
March 26th, 2005, 01:06 PM
Yeah, a P90 is a poor choice of weapon to shoot at aircraft, but bullets are better than no bullets, I guess.

Just because SG-1 recovered a Puddlejumper, doesn't mean we've suddenly cracked the code for their cloaking device. If Sheppard doesn't uncloak himself, the Daedalus shouldn't be able to detect him.

I don't like that mindset - just because we find alien tech, doesn't mean we understand all of it. Even the Asgard have only "scratched the surface" of Ancient knowledge...how the hell can us Humans go about figuring out their cloaking secrets? And just how were they planning to download the Ancient database into friggen' hard drives? I know you have to leave some things to the imagination in Sci-Fi, but stuff like that is just downright weird.

Yukmouth
March 26th, 2005, 01:35 PM
They were wearing the urban variant of MARPAT.They did.It probably wouldn't do much good, but a little is better than nothing. It's not like they'd have anything to lose.

As far as I know there is no urban version of MARPAT only desert and woodland. Even if there is a urban version of MARPAT that stuff they were wearing still wasn't the correct pattern.

Major Tyler
March 26th, 2005, 02:55 PM
As far as I know there is no urban version of MARPAT only desert and woodland. Even if there is a urban version of MARPAT that stuff they were wearing still wasn't the correct pattern.
http://img80.exs.cx/img80/6981/usmarinesmarpatforest9dz.gif http://img80.exs.cx/img80/9799/usmarinesmarpatdesert8kz.gif http://img80.exs.cx/img80/9790/usmarinesmarpaturban4dz.gif

Source: http://www.hyperstealth.com/CADPAT-MARPAT.htm

SmartFox
March 26th, 2005, 03:04 PM
Yeah, a P90 is a poor choice of weapon to shoot at aircraft, but bullets are better than no bullets, I guess.

Just because SG-1 recovered a Puddlejumper, doesn't mean we've suddenly cracked the code for their cloaking device. If Sheppard doesn't uncloak himself, the Daedalus shouldn't be able to detect him.

I don't like that mindset - just because we find alien tech, doesn't mean we understand all of it. Even the Asgard have only "scratched the surface" of Ancient knowledge...how the hell can us Humans go about figuring out their cloaking secrets? And just how were they planning to download the Ancient database into friggen' hard drives? I know you have to leave some things to the imagination in Sci-Fi, but stuff like that is just downright weird.
Not the whole data base. Just 9%. Also those marines weren't using P90s. The P90s were just used to take out the Wraith already in the city.

Alex D
March 26th, 2005, 04:38 PM
I was away last night travelling and my TiVo [email protected]#d out and I didn't get the final minutes of "The Siege II" :(

I got everything until Shepard flies up in the jumper with the Genii nuke and cloaks the ship.

Can some one PLEASE give em the rest of the story from there.

I hate Tivo when the times don't match !!!

Thank you for the help !!!! :o

NoDot
March 26th, 2005, 04:40 PM
I hate Tivo when the times don't match !!!Then record from two minutes before to two minutes after.

John Preston
March 26th, 2005, 04:47 PM
P90's were in use against Darts.

However one must take into consideration the fact that the P90's themselves are armor piercing rounds that can be fired at at least a thousand feet per second, with an easy reload system. Enough P90's being fired at an object will result in said object suffering heavy damage.

What they should've brought were some vulcan cannons...now /those/ are some real anti-aircraft low altitude guns.

---
Oh...and the person who got all spazzy about how I was "They might(Look at that word! OH MY!) know how to detect cloaked Ancient ships because they have a puddle jumper"?

Calm down. It's just a TV show.

DarkQuee1
March 26th, 2005, 05:27 PM
Episode was well-done and well-acted, but I guess the little niggles are getting in the way.

For one thing, I kept wondering why they didn't bring the ZPM with them through the gate. I don't remember hearing (and I admit, I could have missed it) that they were using it to open the gate to Atlantis--if they've powered up the naquadah reactors that much, they could have used that to power the gate. Especially as Jack was able to build a device to open the gate to another galaxy with just the power source in Teal'c's staff weapon--I got the impression it was already on its way on the Daedalus. If they'd brought it, problem over.


And it's also made me wonder why they haven't looked through the Atlantis database to see if there are any instructions on making one of their own. Yes, maybe they wouldn't understand, or have the necessary elements, but have we ever seen them even looking for the "manual"? (Again, it might be something I've missed; some Atlantis eps *have* had me nodding off).

(BTW, why is McKay always berating Beckett about the chair? If he had the artificially altered gene--and I still truly hate that idea--then why doesn't *he* just use it.)


I thought the mines were absurd. Space is 3-dimensional--something TPTB have never grasped (they should check out BSG for lessons on this)--There's no reason why the Wraith ships have to go anywhere near them.

I thought Everett's attitude at the beginning was also ridiculous. Yes, I know that they were setting it up for him "see the light", but for an experienced field officer to come into a situation that he knows nothing about and to basically ignore everyone who would have pertinent information to impart made him look more arrogant; it made him look stupid (TPTB did the same thing in one of the worst SG1 eps, Enemy Mine. Col. Edwards was way too stupid to have made colonel).

Which was only confirmed by his actions at the end: OK, generally you go for a torso shot because it's bigger and easier to hit, especially on a moving target. But if your enemy is standing two feet away from you and you put two shots into his chest and all he does is stagger, why don't you even *try* a head shot? Let's see if the Wraith can survive that!

Then of course, for no particular reason, suddenly the generators aren't working right, so we have to have a suicide run.

The ep just left me cold.


J.

BringerOfLight
March 26th, 2005, 06:46 PM
You know what ticks me off? The berets. Marines don't wear berets, they think they're "foreign" and "feminine". What's worse, the crew had the audacity to give those marines maroon berets, which are reserved for US Army airborne troops.

I know most of the people who do the behind the scenes work are Canadian and Hollywood types, and that comes with a certain ignorance about anything military, but I wonder if it'd be too hard to do some fracking research.

ShadowMaat
March 26th, 2005, 06:53 PM
Can't comment on the color, but O'Neil in the original movie wore a beret, and he was definitely American military. I'm pretty sure he was a Marine, too, but I don't have a copy of the movie to double check.

http://sgdb.theaquaria.net/movie/photo.asp?file=film%20-%200130.jpg

http://www.bilbocine.com/stargate.jpg

BringerOfLight
March 26th, 2005, 07:03 PM
*snickers* Unless TACPs are part of the USAF's Special Operations Command, he's an REMF. Yep, Hollywood ignorance knows no bounds.

Anyway, my point is that those "marines" haven't earned the right to wear the maroon beret. Even if we stick to the context of the show, they're all jarheads and therefor unworthy of having such an honor grace their overthick skulls.

Yukmouth
March 26th, 2005, 09:25 PM
P90's were in use against Darts.

However one must take into consideration the fact that the P90's themselves are armor piercing rounds that can be fired at at least a thousand feet per second, with an easy reload system. Enough P90's being fired at an object will result in said object suffering heavy damage.

What they should've brought were some vulcan cannons...now /those/ are some real anti-aircraft low altitude guns.

---
Oh...and the person who got all spazzy about how I was "They might(Look at that word! OH MY!) know how to detect cloaked Ancient ships because they have a puddle jumper"?

Calm down. It's just a TV show.

P90's are Personal Defense Weapons. In other words for use at close range not low flying aircraft. The cartridge is designed to be armor piercing but with a 10 inch barrel the bullet won't have enough velocity by time it reaches the aircraft to penetrate and even if it does pierce the skin of the ship it won't penetrate deep enough to damage any criticl systems.

Also another little opps did anyone notice when the Colonel pulled his sidearm he got off about 8 shots then he seemed to run out of ammo.The Beretta 92 holds 15rds. Why would the Colonel go into combat with out a proper weapons load out?

Just for the record I don't think some of use are complaining just to be jackass's but as someone else pointed out out it can't be that hard to research this stuff.

lionel_pendergast_rocks
March 26th, 2005, 09:30 PM
Can't comment on the color, but O'Neil in the original movie wore a beret, and he was definitely American military. I'm pretty sure he was a Marine, too, but I don't have a copy of the movie to double check.



no, i'm pretty sure o'neil said that he was with the air force, but i'm not sure either.

ok, i'm just going to butt in really quickly and say that the seige part 2 was awesome, and that it provided us with an unparallelled light show of epic porportions. (AWESOME)

BringerOfLight
March 26th, 2005, 09:36 PM
Yukmouth, the maximum effective range of a P90 is 200 meters, if a Dart is hit by a burst from a P90 it will penetrate, unless the Dart's skin is some kind of ubermetal (which we know it isn't.)

Yukmouth
March 26th, 2005, 09:45 PM
Yukmouth, the maximum effective range of a P90 is 200 meters, if a Dart is hit by a burst from a P90 it will penetrate, unless the Dart's skin is some kind of ubermetal (which we know it isn't.)

200 meters against kevlar. What ever those darts are made of I'm going to say its better than kevlar. :)

Bobthespirit
March 26th, 2005, 09:46 PM
Okay, I am getting *really* confused why you folks are nitpicking the realism of the attire and weapons choice when this is a work of *fiction*.

If you're going to criticize the episode, criticize something with a little relevance to the actual show, like..I dunno, the plot, the dialogue, or the acting.

aaobuttons
March 26th, 2005, 10:18 PM
Also another little opps did anyone notice when the Colonel pulled his sidearm he got off about 8 shots then he seemed to run out of ammo.The Beretta 92 holds 15rds. Why would the Colonel go into combat with out a proper weapons load out?



Just because he only had 8 shots to use doesn't mean he didn't start out w/ a full clip. He probably used them in the fight and either ran out of ammo or wasn't able to reload yet.

SmartFox
March 26th, 2005, 10:37 PM
Episode was well-done and well-acted, but I guess the little niggles are getting in the way.

For one thing, I kept wondering why they didn't bring the ZPM with them through the gate. I don't remember hearing (and I admit, I could have missed it) that they were using it to open the gate to Atlantis--if they've powered up the naquadah reactors that much, they could have used that to power the gate. Especially as Jack was able to build a device to open the gate to another galaxy with just the power source in Teal'c's staff weapon--I got the impression it was already on its way on the Daedalus. If they'd brought it, problem over.

When Jack made the Staff weapion reactor thing it waso nly used to jump start wormhole until it could draw power from the Asgard planet. If the SGC hooked up the reactors and tried to power it up they would only have a wormhole for a few seconds liek in LFP.


And it's also made me wonder why they haven't looked through the Atlantis database to see if there are any instructions on making one of their own. Yes, maybe they wouldn't understand, or have the necessary elements, but have we ever seen them even looking for the "manual"? (Again, it might be something I've missed; some Atlantis eps *have* had me nodding off).

The data base is huge. Plus they have to translate it. Its not like they can translate and go through the whole database in a few days.


(BTW, why is McKay always berating Beckett about the chair? If he had the artificially altered gene--and I still truly hate that idea--then why doesn't *he* just use it.)

Because he needs to look at the stuff that happens when someone sits in it and figure out the data. Plus maybe the chair is harder to work so is easier with someone who has the gene directly.


I thought Everett's attitude at the beginning was also ridiculous. Yes, I know that they were setting it up for him "see the light", but for an experienced field officer to come into a situation that he knows nothing about and to basically ignore everyone who would have pertinent information to impart made him look more arrogant; it made him look stupid (TPTB did the same thing in one of the worst SG1 eps, Enemy Mine. Col. Edwards was way too stupid to have made colonel).

I just didn't like Everett in general. Everything about him bugged me.


Which was only confirmed by his actions at the end: OK, generally you go for a torso shot because it's bigger and easier to hit, especially on a moving target. But if your enemy is standing two feet away from you and you put two shots into his chest and all he does is stagger, why don't you even *try* a head shot? Let's see if the Wraith can survive that!

Well see how calm you are when a beast that can suck the life out of you in seconds is walking towards you.

BringerOfLight
March 27th, 2005, 12:02 AM
Okay, I am getting *really* confused why you folks are nitpicking the realism of the attire and weapons choice when this is a work of *fiction*.

If you're going to criticize the episode, criticize something with a little relevance to the actual show, like..I dunno, the plot, the dialogue, or the acting.


In the US Army the only berets that are a color other than black are worn by a select few, people who've gone through rigorous, voluntary training to become the elite of the world's foremost army. Marines are tough troops in their own right, but they don't rate a maroon beret (nor tan or green, come to that.)

Major Clanger
March 27th, 2005, 01:58 AM
*snickers* Unless TACPs are part of the USAF's Special Operations Command, he's an REMF.

I had a good laugh at that - haven't seen anyone called a REMF in writing before - I'd almost forgotten it existed.

Thanks!

ShadowMaat
March 27th, 2005, 07:07 AM
If you're going to criticize the episode, criticize something with a little relevance to the actual show, like..I dunno, the plot, the dialogue, or the acting.
While I agree that folks shouldn't get TOO bogged down by their nitpicking, I don't see anything inherently wrong with it... unless they say that Atlantis is a disgrace to scifi because their soldiers are wearing maroon berets or something similarly over the top. ;)

If people want to complain, let them. This board is here for EVERYONE to discuss the show in all its aspects. If you don't like what people have to say, you can:

1) Ignore them
2) Ignore the thread
3) Introduce ideas of your own for discussion
4) Consider any valid points people may be making
5) Go eat a chocolate bunny

I'm not a military-type, myself, and I don't have a strong working knowledge of the various ins and outs of things, so it's hard for me to say "this is wrong" or "this is right". I do know that I've ALWAYS found it a bit ridiculous to see SG-1/Atlantis teams shooting "guns" at aircraft and I had a particularly strong moment of disbelief when I saw it in Siege, but the rest of the ep was good enough that I managed to overlook it. Mostly.

The berets reminded me instantly of the original Stargate movie and I thought it was a nice touch to show such a clear division between the more "casual" Atlantis crew and the gung-ho uber military soldier's soldiers imported from Earth. The fact that they "shouldn't" be wearing them doesn't bother me very much... not as much as the guns vs. darts thing, anyway.

Yes, they're easy things to research and yes, it makes the production staff look kinda sloppy when they get things wrong, but it's hardly the first time there have been technical inaccuracies and I'm sure it won't be the last. I've also seen much bigger mistakes on other shows and it didn't seem to harm them overmuch, so I doubt Atlantis's integrity will be destroyed by a few mistakes.

Incidentally, was I the only one who flashed on Col. Danning of Wormhole X-treme in some of those shots of Col. Everett? I think it was a combo of the hairstyle and uniform...

Fanwoman
March 27th, 2005, 07:36 AM
Incidentally, was I the only one who flashed on Col. Danning of Wormhole X-treme in some of those shots of Col. Everett? I think it was a combo of the hairstyle and uniform...

Thank goodness! I thought I was the only one!

keppiezbt
March 27th, 2005, 07:49 AM
the battle scene was so much better than in Lost city pt 2. or reckoning. 2

yeah i said it.

BringerOfLight
March 27th, 2005, 11:08 AM
There have been aircraft that have been shot down by AK-47s before, so it isn't unheard of and the only guaranteed way to fail is to not try. Another thing to note is that bullet size isn't everything, especially when it comes to armour penetration. The 5.7mm bullet has a much higher sectional density than most rifle bullets, which means it's more likely to hole structural integrity when it hits something that's designed to stop projectiles.

Furthermore, the fact that anti-aircraft missiles have taken down Darts, we know that they aren't made out of some uber-metal. AA missiles don't kill with the HE in their warheads, they kill by exploding in close proximity to an aircraft and letting the shrapnel from the missile do the dirty work. Therefor, we can come to the conclusion that Darts are in fact vulnerable to projectiles weapons.

ShadowMaat
March 27th, 2005, 11:14 AM
Oh, I have no doubt that it can be done, I just find it a slight stretch of the imagination. Just because it can be done in the real world doesn't mean I have to find it realistic. :D

BringerOfLight
March 27th, 2005, 11:20 AM
Oh, I have no doubt that it can be done, I just find it a slight stretch of the imagination. Just because it can be done in the real world doesn't mean I have to find it realistic. :D

Try done every time an aircraft is shot down, which has been done in almost every war in the 20th and 21st centuries. Welcome back from Sci-Fi Land, you're in the Real World now.

ShadowMaat
March 27th, 2005, 11:53 AM
Try done every time an aircraft is shot down, which has been done in almost every war in the 20th and 21st centuries. Welcome back from Sci-Fi Land, you're in the Real World now.
I don't give a flying monkey if it's believeable or not. AS I SAID, I personally find it a stretch and if I saw a soldier shoot down an enemy jet right in front of me I'd STILL find it hard to believe. So deal with it.

As for the actual topic of this thread... I loved the VFX of the wormhole. Weir's whole storyline with the Genii was very impressive. It's nice to see TPTB finally utilizing Weir in her intended role.

Yukmouth
March 27th, 2005, 01:15 PM
I don't give a flying monkey if it's believeable or not. AS I SAID, I personally find it a stretch and if I saw a soldier shoot down an enemy jet right in front of me I'd STILL find it hard to believe. So deal with it.
.

+1

It can be done but to think that it can be done with any kind of regularity to be a feasible tactic is ridiculous.

I do recall the story of an A-6 pilot who got shot down from one random AK-47 in Vietnam. But as he said it was a 1 in a million shot.

zats
March 27th, 2005, 01:34 PM
Aaargh! Now I'm counting BOTH the days until school's out AND the days until S2 starts!!!

What was good:
a. SFX. Very dramatic. I loved the long pans around the city, but me da hated them--apparently, he gets motion sick. So: cool, but maybe not such a good idea.
b. Stupid Genii. I really don't like those guys, but I don't quite love to hate them yet, either. Oh, well. I assume that the love part will come in time.
c. Emmeret (was that his name?). Such a stupid, stupid, stupid PIA. Why must people assume that they know everything about a give situation? You can never know everything about a given situation, and you certainly can't expect to know everything three minutes after arriving. Bravado makes a lovely show, but it ain't good for much else.
d. Sheppard's mission. -biting nails-
e. Daedalus. Had it been mentioned before this ep? I didn't think so, which makes it's sudden incorporation into the show seem a tad deus ex machina.
f. Weir's 'negotiations'. V. dramatic, very...intense.

What wasn't good:
a. I think I'm going into SG withdrawl already. Help!

Oma Desala
March 27th, 2005, 01:40 PM
Do you think that perhaps since the time line may have changed a little bit due to the time travel that Daedalus the name of what once was Prometheus? Maybe after they changed time the Prometheus was never named/created. *shrug*

Oma Desala
March 27th, 2005, 01:42 PM
ShadowMaat, I hope you are ok girl. Would you like a helmet? I've noticed that you've been butting heads a lot lately and I was just making sure you are ok. Maybe some chocolates, alcohol and a massage will relieve the stresses of gateworld? :)

zats
March 27th, 2005, 01:56 PM
Thought of it, checked the 'script:

EVERETT: As we speak, it is being transported up to the Daedalus, our new battle cruiser.
MCKAY: Oh, sister ship to the Prometheus. I didn't even know it was finished.

On the other hand, it's possible that since time changed, so to speak, Daedalus played a larger role in this timeline than the one we've been watching for 8 years. Which is no excuse, 'cause it's still a cop-out, but is a possibility.

Oma Desala
March 27th, 2005, 02:01 PM
I do recall during the episode 'Nightwalkers' that they found that alien ship in a old warehouse that was being built by Goa'uld. This could also be related to this issue. Hopefully someone could shed more light on ship, or we just wait until season 9. :)

Not knowing the full extent of the time travel change, which could also be very small. Anubis could be back, Replicators may have not been destoryed... new enemies could have emerged. I'm anxious to watch the next season!

John Preston
March 27th, 2005, 02:02 PM
I'm of the belief that the Daedalus is being created and brought in due to the need for more seperation from SG-1. They want to keep things as pulled apart from one another as they can, while still allowing for room to cross.

Thus the first attempt of the Prometheus to move in and help Atlantis failed, and the Prometheus' sister ship the Daedalus is brought out of nowhere(Most likely it was being built in secrecy just like the Prometheus...remember, we barely knew the X-303 was being built except for a word here or there in an episode or two).

GatetheWay
March 27th, 2005, 02:02 PM
e. Daedalus. Had it been mentioned before this ep? I didn't think so, which makes it's sudden incorporation into the show seem a tad deus ex machina.

What wasn't good:
a. I think I'm going into SG withdrawl already. Help!
The Daedalus was in fact mentioned before just not on Atlantis. In the begining of Moebius Part I Sam quickly mentions that it is the sister ship of the Prometheus and that it will be finished when the Asgaurd beaming technology is installed. It does feel a little inserted though.

And I too think I'm going through SG withdrawl. :o

DarkQuee1
March 27th, 2005, 06:13 PM
When Jack made the Staff weapion reactor thing it waso nly used to jump start wormhole until it could draw power from the Asgard planet. If the SGC hooked up the reactors and tried to power it up they would only have a wormhole for a few seconds liek in LFP.

Where did you get the idea that the gate was drawing power from the Asgard planet? First, we've never been told that the gate draws any power from any of the destinations it dials. Ever. And, second, we weren't told it in "Fifth Race", either. The only power source for the gate in that ep was the device that Jack built.

And apparently, from your answer, I didn't miss pertinent dialogue in The Siege. Apparently, they never address the question of why the Marines just didn't bring the ZPM with them--except for the needed plot device of not having the shield when the Wraith arrive. And this is symptomatic of the both SG1 and Atlantis at this point: the writers have been going for the easy or simplistic solution, and they haven't been thinking their ideas all the way through.





The data base is huge. Plus they have to translate it. Its not like they can translate and go through the whole database in a few days.


A few days? They've been on Atlantis for months at the least, and they've needed power from the beginning. Why haven't they been looking for the blueprints/instructions? Again, a concept not throught through.




Because he needs to look at the stuff that happens when someone sits in it and figure out the data. Plus maybe the chair is harder to work so is easier with someone who has the gene directly.

I could buy the second explanation--though they need to say, if that's the case. And we are told that they are upping the genes in pilots to send them right out in puddlejumpers. However, in regard to the former, we do have Zelenka there to read and interpret the data. Let Rodney put his money where his mouth is!




Well see how calm you are when a beast that can suck the life out of you in seconds is walking towards you.

Yeah, but I'm not a battle-hardened Marine. I expect him to (a) keep his head, (especially as, judging from his dialogue with Sheppard earlier, he really doesn't understand the life-sucking thing) and (b) *use* his head and think about his options. He doesn't. Once more, it's careless writing, because it should be out of character for Everett to be that stupid.


J.

ShadowMaat
March 27th, 2005, 06:19 PM
I thought the ZPM was being used to power the gate. Bit of a dodgy thing to unplug it and try running through before the wormhole collapses. ;)

John Preston
March 27th, 2005, 06:23 PM
The original Stargate system did have a power reliance on the destination gate, as was proven in I believe the episode wherein Hammond is being blackmailed, steps down and they basically turn a planet into a sun.

The device that was used, and can be called a crappy ZPM I guess, was lost in the second Alternate Universe episode, wherein they used it to contact the Asgard there....I think.

>.>

:)

What I want to know is-- Where are the puddle jumpers which could be flying about unloading their weaponry on darts?

DarkQuee1
March 27th, 2005, 06:46 PM
The original Stargate system did have a power reliance on the destination gate, as was proven in I believe the episode wherein Hammond is being blackmailed, steps down and they basically turn a planet into a sun.

The device that was used, and can be called a crappy ZPM I guess, was lost in the second Alternate Universe episode, wherein they used it to contact the Asgard there....I think.

Even if in "Chain Reaction" the naquadah-enhanced explosion was somehow feeding the gate--rather than simply interfering with the ability to shut it down--we did not have the same situation in any of the other episodes, including the Fifth Race. There was no activity, including on Othalla, that would enhance the gate, and we have never been told that, in ordinary gate usage, any power is drawn from the gate at the other end.

As to the device: while we loaned it to the AU, nowhere in the ep does it say that we didn't bring it back with us. In addition, our SGC had it at the base for about a year. Are we to assume that none of the scientists, Sam included, studied it, made blueprints and/or drawings of it (not to mention Jack's original drawing)? That would make them pretty darn stupid, wouldn't it?

Most importantly, my point was not that we could use that specific device, but that all it took to provide sufficient power to open the gate to another galaxy was the power in a staff weapon. Surely the modified naquadah generators could provide sufficient power.

My problem is, as no one in the ep bothers to explain why they couldn't use the generators, it strikes me that the writers never thought about the question. It's that not thinking things through again.


J.

John Preston
March 27th, 2005, 06:54 PM
Aye, plotholes are sometimes odd, especially in this instance.
The only reason why it can't be done I can think of is, as if by magic:
1) The object was lost and the blueprints, while good, do not allow for a recreation due to an inadequacy on the part of scientists to recreate it.
2) The object burnt out due to being used two times, and something happened with blueprints.
3) The writers don't watch Stargate.

GatetheWay
March 27th, 2005, 07:21 PM
Even if in "Chain Reaction" the naquadah-enhanced explosion was somehow feeding the gate--rather than simply interfering with the ability to shut it down--we did not have the same situation in any of the other episodes, including the Fifth Race. There was no activity, including on Othalla, that would enhance the gate, and we have never been told that, in ordinary gate usage, any power is drawn from the gate at the other end.


There have been quite a few ep.s that have said the wormhole draws its energy from either side. Both '48 Hours' and 'Home' say that energy can be drawn by either gate. I think.

Anyway as for Rodney using Carson to power the chair instead of using himself it is flatly said in 'The Gift':

McKAY: And in order to do that, it needs to be on.
BECKETT: You have the gene now!
McKAY: Yeah, but I can’t be trying to analyse the feedback data while I’m concentrating on keeping the damn thing activated!
BECKETT (to Zelenka): Why don’t you analyse it?
ZELENKA: Well, I could analyse it, but Rodney doesn’t think that I ...

Then he was cut off by Weir but you get the point. :)

lord-anubis
March 27th, 2005, 07:40 PM
i think i am the only one who liked Colonel Everett's it just seem cool to have some one who want to put a fight. i guess its beacsse all season they have bee runing from the warith and talking about leaveing atlanits and now some one comes along finaly who wants to take some names and kick some ass

jyh
March 27th, 2005, 08:08 PM
Weir's whole storyline with the Genii was very impressive. It's nice to see TPTB finally utilizing Weir in her intended role.

Oddly, I found the whole Weir/Genii scene to be totally random. On one hand, I do agree that it's good that she finally (!!!) got to use her negotiation skills. (Funny, because she always sends Sheppard to negotiate and make first contact.) But I think it was just a little throwaway scene to drum up some minor, short-lived drama while Genii-guy had her blindfolded and threatened her. Yes, I know, we need to use the weapon they've been developing, which does make the scene somewhat relevant, but I felt like they threw in some manufactured drama just to draw out the scene a little more. :S

ShadowMaat
March 27th, 2005, 08:17 PM
Probably. And I did get a sense of that. But I was just happy to see her actually get to DO something for a change! :)

watcher652
March 27th, 2005, 11:23 PM
5. Who exactly was this ep supposed to be in memory of?Bob Scarabelli was the President and CEO of Rainmaker, the company that does the visual effects for Stargate. He died of a heart attack in Sept 2004. He was only 48.

watcher652
March 27th, 2005, 11:44 PM
Can anyone tell me the name of the coffee-drinking Canuck scientist/gate tech who's been popping up in recent eps? I KNOW I've seen him somewhere before. I wanna say it's Brendan Beiser, but he's kinda my default Generic Vancouver Actor, so I could be wildly wrong.I think this is Chuck Campbell (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0132310/), who is billed as “Technician” on imdb and GateWorld. Looks like Campbell is from Halifax, Nova Scotia.

If you look up Stargate Atlantis guest cast on imdb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0374455/guests), you can see that Campbell makes his first appearance in "The Brotherhood". He's the only tech guy doing any talking, so it must be him.

I'm looking forward to a name for his character next season.

watcher652
March 28th, 2005, 12:18 AM
I haven’t read all the preceding posts, so forgive me if I’m repeating some points that have already been addressed.

I hated Col. Everett. But not because of his military attitude, which was so cliché it was painful and so un-Stargate in quality. But we’ve seen that kind of attitude before in countless TV shows and movies. What I hated was his accent. Was it supposed to be some gung ho Texas accent? Because it wasn’t. Or if somebody can say, yeah, that’s a real Dallas accent that guy has, I say, so what? I thought it was fake. Everybody in the room watching Atlantis with me thought it was fake. And that took all the drama out of the character. Maybe the actor is a good actor. I don’t know, I’m not familiar with him. But he was totally wrong vocally for this role. He only looked the part. He didn’t act the part. I hated him for his accent, not for what he represented. And he made the show so much less than it could have been.

It seems inconceivable that O’Neill could have sent this jerk, by the way.

And then he supposedly softened up. Let Weir have her chair back. Told Teyla the Athosians could help in the fight after he brushed her off with a “We can handle it ourselves, (with an implied “don’t worry your pretty little head/you’re an alien, I don’t trust you”)” remark. Well, the Wraith gene thing was understandable. But, I owe you a drink, Weir. Oh, he came off as so sexist! It was slimy and dirty. And I don’t think that’s what they were going for.

But other than the disappointment of Everett, the show was great. Wonderful special effects, wonderful character interactions by the regular cast. The regular cast is so good, the guest cast pales by comparison. The show really has to be careful in its casting. The guests have to measure up to the great acting of the regular cast or the show just doesn’t work. *cough* Chaya *cough*

Sheppard sticking up for Weir when Everett tries to take over with barely a by your leave. That was great. And so Sheppard.

One of my favorite parts was the reactions of Zelenka and McKay when McKay was cut out of the defense strategy meeting.

McKay: I should be in that meeting. I am the foremost expert on the defense capabilities of this city.
Zelenka: You know how it is. When military steps in, scientists take a back seat.
McKay: Until they need us.
Zelenka: They don't think they need us.
McKay: Yeah, they don't think they need us, right up until the point that they need us, and then, they need us.
Zelenka: Then they need us.

And, sure enough, the scientists are needed.

And later, this exchange.

Everett: Can you do it?
McKay: I knew this was going to happen.
Everett: Is that a fact?
McKay: Yes, it's a fact. Look, you show up here with your guns and your brush cuts, but when it comes to actually saving the city, you turn to the scientists! And every time what you ask is impossible!

But McKay and Zelenka come up with an idea. The scientists save the day. Possibly. It was a great idea. But they were depending on Milky Way tech. Which turns out wasn't such a smart thing to do.

I love how when the chips where down, it was Sheppard who gives the remote control Puddle Jumper idea to McKay, knowing that all the exhausted scientist needed was a focus. And Sheppard also came up with the Genii nuke idea. Experience, with McKay, and in the field, gave Sheppard his edge.

I laughed when Everett, in response to McKay's outburst, asks when was the last time McKay slept. Ok, he hasn't slept, but McKay would have told the guy off anyway. Being well rested or not had nothing to do with McKay's reaction with the way Everett was treating the scientists.

Weir uses her diplomatic skills to convince the Genii to give us their nukes. Great use of the character.

Another scene. Sheppard was in the chair to power up the PJs. McKay is trying to power up the chair but says the generator is dead. (Stupid untested has to work in a state of barely controlled overload Mark 2). McKay continues to work on the problem, but Sheppard knows it’s no use and they haven’t the time. Sheppard says quietly, “So long Rodney,” and runs for the Control Room. It takes a second for it to sink in with McKay, but he jumps up from the generator and shouts, ”Major!” But Sheppard is gone. I wanted to cry, that was more heartbreaking than Sheppard telling Weir, “I have to, and you know it,” as he’s on his way to the jumper bay.

Sheppard asking Weir instead of just going. He’s going, but he waits for her permission.

Beckett and McKay are in the Control Room with Weir when Sheppard says over the radio,”You know, if this works, somebody might have to do this again.” Unless Everett wasn’t a Wraith meal and knows how to fly, that means either Beckett or McKay. Which means McKay because Beckett doing that is inconceivable. McKay doing that is only slightly less so, though.

And then when McKay looking at the long range scanner and asking Weir, “You let Sheppard fly that Jumper?” Another lump in my throat.

McKay looking so exhausted gave a real touch of humanity to everything.

That was the great stuff. Some stuff I have questions about (but in no way takes away from the episode, just some things to ponder about until Season 2) -

Beckett’s phobia about Ancient tech needs to be examined further. It’s making him look like a wuss and we know he’s not. Just because of that one incident in Antarctica… Maybe they need to find some really cool Ancient medical tech that he’s comfortable with. I kind of like the idea that Beckett has trouble with Ancient stuff that’s used for fighting. Seems he would just have a hard time making it work because it goes against his personality to harm anything because he's a medical doctor.

Of course the battle scenes were tremendous. Although I keep wondering what firing P90’s at a Wraith ship can do. They do seem to make an impact, but I can’t see why they should. Maybe it’s realistic, but it’s just hard to understand for a non military, non armament person like myself.

I don’t get that the military wears camouflage gear but red berets. It may not be real life, but I would find it more believable for them to wear camouflage colored berets. Actually, I would find it more believable if they were all wearing some kind of helmet.

Jumping visually from tower to tower was cool once or twice. I think they did in a couple of times too many because it was starting to bug me.

Why Everett and Weir decide to check out the battle on a balcony where they could be beamed away or shot at is beyond me. Even if they lost primary systems and need to know what’s going on, being outside seemed a little irresponsible.

I don’t understand why Everett didn’t shoot that Wraith in the mouth. I know it’s a smaller target, but the Wraith was right on top of him. Seems to me that blowing its brains out might slow it down.

McKay went to Weir’s office to tell Weir and Everett there was a problem with the Genii nukes. When they all left Weir’s office, the door looked like it was going to close on Everett. My friends and I all cried out in disappointment that it didn’t catch him.

Guess that's enough for now. Sigh. What a great season.

Matt G
March 28th, 2005, 07:29 AM
Bob Scarabelli was the President and CEO of Rainmaker, the company that does the visual effects for Stargate. He died of a heart attack in Sept 2004. He was only 48.

Ah! Thanks. RIP!

Darkdreams
March 28th, 2005, 07:53 AM
Awesome Episode but I was really really pissed off that it was a threeparted and that I have to wait till june or July to see the ending dammit, oh well, thats just stinky of the writers......

Fanwoman
March 28th, 2005, 08:58 AM
I haven't watched it in ages, but as to the gate drawing power from its designation, wasn't that the case in A Matter of Time? That's where they dialed to blow up the sun in Exodus. Of course, that is a unique situation.

What surprised me is that the Wraith didn't dial into Atlantis' gate like they did with Orin's planet in Letters from Pegasus. After incorporating that detail into the plot of LFP, I thought for sure they'd do the same with Atlantis.


What I want to know is-- Where are the puddle jumpers which could be flying about unloading their weaponry on darts?
This was another tactical oversight that bugged me. They could have had the Jumpers hover where they wouldn't be in the crossfire and use up their drones, too. Perhaps they've exhausted the Jumper drones in earlier episodes? But if that's the case, they should have said so.

Using the bulkheads to close off vital areas and having a tighter guard on the generators would have made sense, too.

Still, it was quite the show!

PugGate
March 28th, 2005, 09:14 AM
-Everett shoots the wraith multiple times, but he isn't able to kill it. So won't the wraith feed off him in order to heal itself?

-Did anyone think it looked like Ford and his group surrendered when the wraith cornered him? Why surrender, the only reason they want you alive is so they can kill you! Go out with a bang!

-When the darts transport people into their ship, they take everything the people were holding, including guns. So why don't they blow a hole from the inside when they are in the wraith ship?

-Is Bates still in a coma? I don't remember seeing him.

Hex.FTB.enabled
March 28th, 2005, 10:33 AM
Wow, this episode sent be on a love it/hate it rollar coaster. And, like most here, the bad was mostly associated with Col.Everett. He was so incredibly cliche and stupid that along with the Texas accent all I could think of was Dr. Strangelove. From the first 10 seconds of hearing him speak all I could think was there is absolutely no way O'Neill would have given someone this arrogant and ignorant the time of day, much less send him to defend something as important as Atlantis. Having him soften up felt like a complete 180, very unsettling.

Everyone else however, I absolutely loved. Weir was at her best, especially with the Genii. Great scene! I was also glad to see more of Zelenka, the scenes between him, Rodney, and Mckay balanced out the shoot-em-up scenes quite nicely while displaying their respective characters very well. And last but not least, major kudos go to Joe for his portrayal of Sheppard. The expressions on his face were priceless, and the look between him and Weir conveyed so much (regardless of your shipper status).

(sigh) Is July here yet?

DarkQuee1
March 28th, 2005, 12:21 PM
There have been quite a few ep.s that have said the wormhole draws its energy from either side. Both '48 Hours' and 'Home' say that energy can be drawn by either gate. I think.

Exactly. "Either" side, not "both" sides at the same time. However, all of this is irrelevant, because the ep in question, Fifth Race, *never* said that the Asgard gate helped provide additional power to Jack's device, nor was it said in POV. In eight years, no one has ever said that Jack's device was not sufficient to power the device and provide enough power to get Jack to Othalla. And if it was, then there should have been enough power in the naquadah generators to power the gate.

The thing is, all the possible explanations being offered are just fanwanking. And we shouldn't have to do it. There is a difference between breasting your cards and not revealing important events that will occur down the road right up front on the one hand, and in failing to clear up problems that shouldn't be occurring on the other. It was a simple enough matter to say, "We tried to use the generators to power the gate but there wasn't enough power and we needed the ZPM to do it, that's why it's coming by ship", thereby eliminating the entire issue.

Instead, to me, it looks as if they never even realized there *was* a problem and that's why they didn't address it.


Remember, "The Devil is in the details." Often, it's the small things, ones that shouldn't be an issue if the writers thought everything through carefully, that break the suspension of disbelief. If a viewer has to spend time asking, "Why the heck did they do that?" or "Why didn't they do that?", and it distracts the viewer from what else is going on, then it's a failure of the writing.



Anyway as for Rodney using Carson to power the chair instead of using himself it is flatly said in 'The Gift':

McKAY: And in order to do that, it needs to be on.
BECKETT: You have the gene now!
McKAY: Yeah, but I can’t be trying to analyse the feedback data while I’m concentrating on keeping the damn thing activated!
BECKETT (to Zelenka): Why don’t you analyse it?
ZELENKA: Well, I could analyse it, but Rodney doesn’t think that I ...

Then he was cut off by Weir but you get the point. :)

You know, that's kind of my point. McKay's ego is getting in the way of getting the results he needs. If Beckett is having a problem dealing with the Ancients' devices--for whatever reason--then McKay of the Big Mouth should do it and let his colleagues collect the data. And, on top of that, he's outright insulting his colleague. If I were Zelenka, I would take issue with that.

BTW, I *still*--and will always--hate the idea of the gene-tampering. It's like the damn midi-chlorians, that turned something special into something mundane. So does the gene-splicing, IMO.


J.

ShadowMaat
March 28th, 2005, 01:30 PM
Personally, I'm inclined to think that McKay is afraid of the chair and is using his ego as a shield to cover the REAL reason why he won't sit in it. ;) I could be wrong about that, but especially after his experiences with the personal shield device, he may be a bit twitchy about things.

Or maybe he really IS vainglorious. I still love him for it. :)

Incidentally, can't remember if I mentioned this, but since we were on the subject of superfluous scenes, I'd like to add in that whole Everett/Shep confrontation... I think I HAVE mentioned it before, in fact. But the scene seemed wildly out of place and unnecessary. I get that they're trying to build hostility between the two, but that whole this was so incredibly stupid... but then again, just about every scene focusing on Everett was incredible stupid. IMO. Hated everything about the character and did not find him "softening up" towards the end. As far as I'm concerned, he was still an utter jackhole and if the Wraith eats him, I don't think it'll be a great loss. I pity the Wraith, though, he'll probably get indigestion.

Purpleyin
March 28th, 2005, 03:46 PM
-When the darts transport people into their ship, they take everything the people were holding, including guns. So why don't they blow a hole from the inside when they are in the wraith ship?

-Is Bates still in a coma? I don't remember seeing him.

Presumably he's still in a coma, and not mentioned. Just like Sora is presumably still in the brig (for some reason...) or at the Alpha site even?

Anyway, on the matter of the darts beaming people. Darts don't really look that big (taking the scene from Rising where we see Ford etc watch them disappear through the gate) and one managed to beam up four + people. Makes me wonder if the Wraith have some modified Stargate technology, like those beamed up and stored in the dart in a memory buffer...after all Zelenka did fear they could steal the Atlantis' hyperdrive technology and so maybe darts have Ancient technology used in them - could well be they can't do anything once beamed up becuase they aren't materialised.

Anyone else think this sounds reasonable?
Might be interesting question for the Q&A with Joe thread. Wonder how much backstory/detail etc the writers have written out on the Wraith tech?

NoDot
March 28th, 2005, 04:51 PM
Remember, "The Devil is in the details." Often, it's the small things, ones that shouldn't be an issue if the writers thought everything through carefully, that break the suspension of disbelief. If a viewer has to spend time asking, "Why the heck did they do that?" or "Why didn't they do that?", and it distracts the viewer from what else is going on, then it's a failure of the writing.I think it's because Ida is much closer (OK, a LOT closer) to the Milky Way than Pegasus. You need more (a LOT more) power to open a wormhole between Pegasus and Earth than between the Milky Way and Ida.

BTW, where's the proof Jack built a ZPM in "The Fifth Race"? All he did was make a generator that used the power cell from Teal'c's staff as the base of it's power. Since it's presumed that a staff weapon draws its power from Naquada (like all other Goa'uld technology), then the power cell must have simply been Naquada in a liquid form. Thus, we come to the conclusion that he built a Naquada generator, and a poor one at that (not that it was to last long, anyway).

Is there any solid proof that it was indeed created from the same blueprints as a ZPM? Not to my knowledge.

BringerOfLight
March 28th, 2005, 08:34 PM
-Did anyone think it looked like Ford and his group surrendered when the wraith cornered him? Why surrender, the only reason they want you alive is so they can kill you! Go out with a bang!

It's called a Mexican standoff, somebody's waiting for somebody else to twitch first.

gwangung
March 28th, 2005, 10:51 PM
I think it's because Ida is much closer (OK, a LOT closer) to the Milky Way than Pegasus. You need more (a LOT more) power to open a wormhole between Pegasus and Earth than between the Milky Way and Ida.

BTW, where's the proof Jack built a ZPM in "The Fifth Race"? All he did was make a generator that used the power cell from Teal'c's staff as the base of it's power. Since it's presumed that a staff weapon draws its power from Naquada (like all other Goa'uld technology), then the power cell must have simply been Naquada in a liquid form. Thus, we come to the conclusion that he built a Naquada generator, and a poor one at that (not that it was to last long, anyway).

Is there any solid proof that it was indeed created from the same blueprints as a ZPM? Not to my knowledge.

Well, the only way the Ida Galaxy would be much closer than the Pegasus Galaxy is if it was one of the Magellenic Clouds....Pegasus is about 3 to 5 million light years away; Andromeda is about 2 million.

Personally, it was pretty clear that Jack didn't build a ZPM in Fifth Race. What he may have done was to build a generator with power enough to contact the Ida Galaxy, open a wormwhole long enough to squirt through a coded command to the Asgard that would draw power from the other side to keep it open longer. Fanwanking to be sure, but not contradicted by textural evidence.

[And remember....doing a graceful infodump explaining this stuff takes TIME...time that often isn't available on a series, or is cut in favor of other, more visual factors]

Fanwoman
March 29th, 2005, 08:02 AM
Anyway, on the matter of the darts beaming people. Darts don't really look that big (taking the scene from Rising where we see Ford etc watch them disappear through the gate) and one managed to beam up four + people. Makes me wonder if the Wraith have some modified Stargate technology, like those beamed up and stored in the dart in a memory buffer...after all Zelenka did fear they could steal the Atlantis' hyperdrive technology and so maybe darts have Ancient technology used in them - could well be they can't do anything once beamed up becuase they aren't materialised.

Anyone else think this sounds reasonable?
Might be interesting question for the Q&A with Joe thread. Wonder how much backstory/detail etc the writers have written out on the Wraith tech?

I've wondered about this, too. There are also the remains of the dart in Childhood's End that suggest they aren't that big, as well as the chase in The Brotherhood that made them look comparable to a Jumper. I think it's a good question.

After all, if you're piloting a small vehicle through enemy fire, would you really have the time to mess with armed prisoners?

lord-anubis
March 29th, 2005, 08:11 AM
Wow, this episode sent be on a love it/hate it rollar coaster. And, like most here, the bad was mostly associated with Col.Everett. He was so incredibly cliche and stupid that along with the Texas accent all I could think of was Dr. Strangelove.


that why a like col'evertt and the voice made him even more cliche i was laguhing so hard i guess im the only one who likes the guy.

DarkQuee1
March 29th, 2005, 11:17 AM
I think it's because Ida is much closer (OK, a LOT closer) to the Milky Way than Pegasus. You need more (a LOT more) power to open a wormhole between Pegasus and Earth than between the Milky Way and Ida.

BTW, where's the proof Jack built a ZPM in "The Fifth Race"? All he did was make a generator that used the power cell from Teal'c's staff as the base of it's power. Since it's presumed that a staff weapon draws its power from Naquada (like all other Goa'uld technology), then the power cell must have simply been Naquada in a liquid form. Thus, we come to the conclusion that he built a Naquada generator, and a poor one at that (not that it was to last long, anyway).

Is there any solid proof that it was indeed created from the same blueprints as a ZPM? Not to my knowledge.


First, have we ever been given the distance from the Milky Way to Ida vs. to the Pegasus Galaxy? If so, I don't remember it. If not, then this is pure speculation on your part. And again, we are fanwanking to find an explanation that we shouldn't have to be doing, because the writers should have done it themselves. I've reached a point--and not just with Stargate--where I will no longer go out of my way to save the writers of a show from their own carelessness or sloppiness. If the viewers can pay enough attention, even on a single viewing, to see problems that needed an explanation, or to see logic flaws, then why couldn't the writers/directors, who have spent a lot more time on the episode?

I never said Jack created a ZPM. You're are confusing two of my points--or maybe I didn't word it clearly enough; if so, I apologize. My point about Jack's device was twofold: 1) that it had enough power to dial another galaxy, and so the naquadah generators, which have been modified to increase their power 600-fold (I think that was the number), should have been able to, and 2) in response to posters who said that the generator was left in an AU: while we don't know that it was, even if it were, the SGC should have had plans of it after a year of studying it.

In regard to the ZPM, my only comment was that the Atlantis team, in the entire time they were there, have never appeared to even consider searching the database for the plans/blueprints to make a ZPM of their own. Maybe they couldn't do it, but you would think, since they've been looking for one so hard, that they would first have gone to the source to see if making one were possible. Again, I think this is sloppy writing and it says to me that TPTB have never even thought of this, while, to me, it was an incredibly logical thing for the Atlantis team to have tried.

GhostPoet
March 29th, 2005, 11:47 AM
EAsily one of the best SG episodes ever.
I REALLY hope Everett survives!! He's one of my favorites now! (no one spoil it for me!!)

NoDot
March 29th, 2005, 12:55 PM
First, have we ever been given the distance from the Milky Way to Ida vs. to the Pegasus Galaxy? If so, I don't remember it. If not, then this is pure speculation on your part.You're right in that we can only presume the distances, but it makes logical sense. It's unlikely the 2x15-TFR generator was very sophisticated. It was only calibrated to work once, and we don't know if it provided all the power to the Stargate itself or if it only provided enough to jumpstart the connection (or if both were partly true).

Main question: why did the Atlantis team need a ZPM to connect to Atlantis? The most likely answer is because Pegasus is much farther away than Ida.


And again, we are fanwanking to find an explanation that we shouldn't have to be doing, because the writers should have done it themselves. I've reached a point--and not just with Stargate--where I will no longer go out of my way to save the writers of a show from their own carelessness or sloppiness. If the viewers can pay enough attention, even on a single viewing, to see problems that needed an explanation, or to see logic flaws, then why couldn't the writers/directors, who have spent a lot more time on the episode?They need to hire nitpickers to go over all the plotlines.


I never said Jack created a ZPM. You're are confusing two of my points--or maybe I didn't word it clearly enough; if so, I apologize.I was making that comment to everyone, not just you. Trust me, I've heard "Jack built a ZPM in 2x15-TFR," enough times that I can't stand it.


My point about Jack's device was twofold: 1) that it had enough power to dial another galaxy, and so the naquadah generators, which have been modified to increase their power 600-fold (I think that was the number), should have been able to,600-fold was the figure for the Mark II compared to normal generators. However, assuming the 2x15-TFR generator was less sophisticated than the SGC's generators, then the output in the SGC's generators is probably quite a bit more than the one Jack built.


and 2) in response to posters who said that the generator was left in an AU: while we don't know that it was, even if it were, the SGC should have had plans of it after a year of studying it.Agreed


In regard to the ZPM, my only comment was that the Atlantis team, in the entire time they were there, have never appeared to even consider searching the database for the plans/blueprints to make a ZPM of their own. Maybe they couldn't do it, but you would think, since they've been looking for one so hard, that they would first have gone to the source to see if making one were possible. Again, I think this is sloppy writing and it says to me that TPTB have never even thought of this, while, to me, it was an incredibly logical thing for the Atlantis team to have tried.Well, they have to translate it, and there probably isn't a table of contents in the database, so it would take them a while to look through all the data. You're right, though. They've been there how long and still haven't found some plans or initial research yet? Of course, there's the issue of making one, too.

greytop
April 11th, 2005, 01:52 AM
Does anyone know who played the Athosian that was Teyla's sparing partner when she and Colonel Dillon first met?

GatetheWay
April 11th, 2005, 08:53 AM
Does anyone know who played the Athosian that was Teyla's sparing partner when she and Colonel Dillon first met?
I think he was one of their fight chorographers. I heard that one the pod cast.

not so ancient
April 18th, 2005, 01:09 PM
Was it supposed to be some gung ho Texas accent? Because it wasn’t. Or if somebody can say, yeah, that’s a real Dallas accent that guy has, I say, so what? I thought it was fake.

I agree with you that the actor delivered it in a very bad, very fake way, and I say that having lived in Texas all my life, so far. He got some subtle details wrong - drawl, emphasis, up and down modulation in his voice, that, altogether, just struck a wrong note. I don't hold him responsible for the actual "Texanness" of his word choice because the writers, not the actor, controlled that.

As for reality, there are Texans who do talk like that to varying degrees. It's more associated with lower socio-economic class, but that is far from a constant.

Imagine that there's an X/Y axis chart, and Texas slang word choice is on the X axis and drawl in pronunciation is the Y axis. Everett is way out there on both axes. Everett most approximates lower-education, lower socio-economic class Texans, among whom you can find more drawl and lots of use of Texas slang. You might find someone who's educated but drawly, or educated and not drawly but uses Texas slang. But it's rare to find someone who's educated, or advanced in business, society or their profession, who's both drawly and slangy.

As I said, this isn't a constant. There are exceptions. You might be familiar with Ross Perot. He's a billionaire Texan who talks with slang and drawl. He grew up near my father-in-law in Texarkana and my father-in-law has no appreciable Texas slang or drawl. It's my opinion Perot and others like him kind of play-up their accent as projecting a the Texas cowboy/good-old-boy persona.

Another person who puts on such an accent is George W. Bush. 'Nuff said.

So Everett's either a military guy from a pretty humble Texas family/socioeconomic background who worked his way up, or a guy who's not from such a background, but who has, or even accentuates, a Texan way of speaking because that's part of his persona.

It didn't come off well and distracted from the episode.

N8ball88
May 16th, 2005, 09:50 AM
I thought this was a great episode, and I can't wait to see part 3.

Major Tyler
May 16th, 2005, 12:34 PM
I thought this was a great episode, and I can't wait to see part 3.Nate! It's good to see you on GateWorld! Too bad you won't be in part three. Did your character have a name, by the way?

watcher652
May 16th, 2005, 06:36 PM
So Everett's either a military guy from a pretty humble Texas family/socioeconomic background who worked his way up, or a guy who's not from such a background, but who has, or even accentuates, a Texan way of speaking because that's part of his persona.

It didn't come off well and distracted from the episode.I don't see why he had to have any kind of accent at all. He just needed to be firm in his beliefs. Cutting out the Atlantis expedition from the decision making process would have made us hate him enough.

I'm sorry his character came off the way it did. The episode would have been so much better if Everett was more believable. When you are yelling at the screen because of an actor's delivery, instead of the words and actions of the character, then there's a problem.

N8ball88
May 17th, 2005, 11:55 AM
Nate! It's good to see you on GateWorld! Too bad you won't be in part three. Did your character have a name, by the way?

Thanks! :D My character had no name that I know of.

Major Tyler
May 17th, 2005, 02:59 PM
Thanks! :D My character had no name that I know of.You should give him a name. :P

Lida
May 17th, 2005, 04:17 PM
Does anyone know who played the Athosian that was Teyla's sparing partner when she and Colonel Dillon first met?

Maybe James Bamford (or BAMBAM), who is her fight choreographer/trainer? She is really amazing and in great physical condition. He must be a terrific trainer and teacher! :)

Major Tyler
May 17th, 2005, 05:41 PM
Does anyone know who played the Athosian that was Teyla's sparing partner when she and Colonel Dillon first met?His name is James Bamford. He's the Stunt Coordinator for SGA.

http://img134.echo.cx/img134/1845/siege1416gv.th.jpg (http://img134.echo.cx/my.php?image=siege1416gv.jpg)

greytop
May 17th, 2005, 06:02 PM
Thanks, guys/gals. I had already found that out.

GatetheWay
May 28th, 2005, 03:12 PM
Okay, at the time of the Siege Part Two exactly how much time has the Atlantis team been on Atlantis? I thought during the Storm that they had been there for over half a year but then in The Brotherhood McKay says 'a matter of months.' That doesn't sound like a very long time. So I was just wondering what you guys think about this.

Purpleyin
May 28th, 2005, 03:19 PM
Okay, at the time of the Siege Part Two exactly how much time has the Atlantis team been on Atlantis? I thought during the Storm that they had been there for over half a year but then in The Brotherhood McKay says 'a matter of months.' That doesn't sound like a very long time. So I was just wondering what you guys think about this.
Well I think by Suspicion they'd been there a couple of months, I think 3, so my presumption has always been that it's somewhere between 5-9 months. Of course a matter of months couple mean up to 11 but I tend to think if it was over 9 Rodney might round it closer to a year. It was atleast also 2 weeks between Brotherhood and The Seige Part 2 wasn't it? So I'd guess it has to be at least 4 months minimum.

GatetheWay
May 28th, 2005, 03:24 PM
So you'd say 4 to 9 months then?

Purpleyin
May 28th, 2005, 03:26 PM
So you'd say 4 to 9 months then?
Yep. Though I'm sure other people will have there thoughts on it too, well hopefully. I've always wondered about it but never had anyone to discuss it with.

GatetheWay
May 28th, 2005, 03:34 PM
Wouldn't that change things up a bit if it was less then a year? SG-1's seasons have always taken place over roughly a year so they could, in episodes, refer to something that happened five seasons ago as happening five years ago.

Purpleyin
May 28th, 2005, 03:37 PM
Wouldn't that change things up a bit if it was less then a year? SG-1's seasons have always taken place over roughly a year so they could, in episodes, refer to something that happened five seasons ago as happening five years ago.
Well it's usual but not written in stone - I'm sure they'd have a timeline on events anyway, though if they got it wrong it wouldn't be the first time, things slip through the net of canon-ness and only the hardcore fans would actually notice... ;)

Watters87
May 28th, 2005, 06:13 PM
Agree with Purpleyin that it has been around 9 months since the Team left. The timelines would be the same because you have to take into account that there would have been considerable time between 'New Order Part 2' and 'Rising'. Didn't Weir in 'Rising' say that it took months to assemble the Expadition Team. So if we say it took 2-3 months to assemble the team the timelines would match up.

GatetheWay
May 28th, 2005, 06:15 PM
That makes sense! I didn't even consider it. Good thinking Watters87!

Steve_the_Wraith
May 30th, 2005, 04:37 AM
Towards the end of SGA season 1 and SG-1 season eight the shows are pretty much in sinc. Remember the newspaper Daniel read in threads taht warned of the Wraith attack on Atlantis

The thing is that the end of the seasons happen about the same time (But Letters from Pegasus probably happened after Moebius/Threads otherwise the need to get the ZPM would have been more urgent), with Season nine jumping ahead a few months (SG-1 has been disbanded) that Atlantis will be ahead of SG-1 :D

They will probably get in sinc again for the crossover in the second half of Atlantis season two

Stricken
June 1st, 2005, 03:31 AM
I liked the Siege Part II, good batlle sequence, i thought it was waht we all hoped for in Stargate Sg-1 Season 1 in the finally but didnt get it!!

Easter Lily
June 1st, 2005, 03:38 AM
Do you mean Season 8? :S

Yes... it's a typical Stargate cliffhanger... well done but annoying (having to wait for the denouement)... Appeals to the action junkie in me. Still it's not too long now.

twiggy
June 1st, 2005, 04:08 PM
it was an awesome finale. gotta love Sheppard's heroics :)

Unamed
June 3rd, 2005, 09:16 AM
I really hope Everett survives, he was feckin cool!

SeaBee
June 5th, 2005, 04:13 PM
An almost perfect end to the season, but Everett really grated.
I felt that he was over played and over written. There is no way that an experienced field officer would ignore and cut out the person who is, basically, the equivallent of a governor, even if they are civillian and female, especially since she was appointed by sanction of his ultimate commander in chief, the president of the USA. He would not have been given orders to do so by O'Niell and would have been overstepping his authority.

aaobuttons
June 5th, 2005, 07:39 PM
Well, but how they explained it away was that with the inclusion of him and his men, it was becoming a miliatry operation there by over riding her athority. All Everett and O'neill for that matter had to go on was mission reports and that might not have expressed how committed everyone was to Elizabeth. As he spent more time with everyone he realized his error in excluding her and tried to rectifiy the problem.