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View Full Version : Why does Stargate SG-1 seem low budget, rushed and not as popular as it should be?



TheScorpionsSting
May 11th, 2004, 08:47 PM
Let me start off by saying I love the whole idea of Stargate SG-1 so don't take the title of the thread to heart. I just have some thoughts that I've been pondering for a while and maybe they could be answered as well.

Stargate SG-1 is one of my favorite shows and I will even go as far as saying it is better than Startrek overall (as of now anyways) but I have some things that I have to get off my chest.

Low Budget

Why does Stargate SG-1 seem so low budget? They have the same scenes of the forests in Canada for almost every world they land on and the fact that at the most 3 SG teams will go through the gate to do battle is ridiculous. I would love to see an army of like 100 soldiers coming through to give the bad guys hell! Instead it's always SG-1 with little or no back up when they could have avoided alot of situations of being captured if they had brought more people. They could have even took over the area. Most of all, for all the years I've watched SG-1 it has never been aired primetime. Even before the move to the SC-FI channel the shows timeslot was (and still is) at 5pm on a Saturday afternoon on FOX, and it is shown whenever they feel like it (most of the time not), the sad part is an old boring show like MASH gets priority over SG-1!


Rushed

Why do all SC-Fi shows feel rushed? It feels like the writters are saying "Lets hurry up and cram everthing into an hour" like Paramount is going cut funds or someone is planning to quit. Why can't they take their time and develop detailed story lines and plots? I don't care how many episodes it takes, just tell the story right! I thnk all Sc-Fi shows need to take a page from the book of Alias, it is such a well written show and each episode is intertwined with the last. Each episode in Alias is like a motion picture with so much detail and nothing is left out or forgoten. Another good thing about Alias that SG-1(especially Enterprise) needs to understand is that an episode does not always have to solve a problem presented in that episode. You don't need to start problem and find a solution within the hour! The problem can be solved episodes later or maybe not at all and will be a consequence the characters have to live with. This makes the show more like real life. SG-1 is pretty realistic (what I like best about it) and Avenger 2.0 almost got there but it is not at the level of Alias.

I'm also sorry to say but I don't care much for the characters as much I should. This is because there is no character development and especially little character interaction. I know they're in the military and all but COME ON NOW! It's like the team does their job then goes home. I want to see Jack, Teal'c and Daniel going to a basketball game I want to see Samantha and Daniel go to a party. What are their hobbies, favorite foods, childhood like? I want to see life outside the base, I WANT TO KNOW SG-1. This is where (even though alot of you may hate it) Startrek Voyager was just well done. I knew the close relationships between the Captin Janeway and her crew. I witnessed how the crew acted in akward situations, embarassing or serious. I knew Tom Paris and Harry kim were best friends and I witnessed the fun leisure times they had. I knew 7 of 9's life from Past to Present. I knew they were Human(Alien) too.


Unpopular

Don't you think this show could be bigger than it is? Or maybe it's the "not so in the spotlight" aspect that makes it so special and keeps it alive to this day?
Well it's going into it's eigth season which is longer than any startrek series but ask any joe schmoe on the street if they ever heard of Stargate SG-1 show and they will probably look at you clueless and throw you some change or spray you with mace.

Comments?

Elwe Singollo
May 11th, 2004, 09:11 PM
I agree with alot of your comments, i won't say alot about what i don't agree with, but i will say the thing about 'unpopularity'. Stargate SG-1 is pretty popular in the Sci-Fi world, since its on Sci-Fi, a cable network, it isn't availble to everyone, so its ratings won't be as good broadcast networks such as ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, etc... Also about the primetime thing, Stargate does air on primetime, if not for you, the new episodes that aired was on Primetime Friday on Sci-Fi for me. Also, on the show, they did show Teal'k and O'niell go visit the cabin and go fishing, they showed Carter go on a date, and Teal'k likes donuts, and other things... too many things to write...

joker_smile
May 11th, 2004, 09:21 PM
<<Instead it's always SG-1 with little or no back up when they could have avoided alot of situations of being captured if they had brought more people>>

Well to some people it's more intresting seeing the heroes in danger and figuring out a way to get back home alive. Besides if they rushed in with a hundered people without knowledge of a threat (cause sometimes a planet seems peaceful) it might scare the locals and there'd be no point.


<<Most of all, for all the years ?I've watched SG-1 it has never been aired primetime.>>

I guess it all depends on where you live. They show SG-1 at 9pm on Sci-fi here and when it was on Showtime it was on at 10pm


<<"Lets hurry up and cram everthing into an hour" like Paramount is going cut funds or someone is planning to quit? Why can't they take their time and develop detailed story lines and plots. I don't care how many episodes it takes, just tell the story right!>>

Most shows are only ordered for 22 or 23 episodes. They aren't movies and sometimes it's hard to fit everything in a episode.

<<This is because there is no character development and especially little character interaction.>>

Well there's been a few episodes where there's been interactions. Daniel going over to Jack's for a beer, Teal'c, and Jack going over to Sam's to watch Star Wars (though the boys went to watch women in jello), Jack going to see the General after he quit. Jack, Sam and Daniel kicked butt in a bar fight and got banned from the place. Jack took Teal'c to his cabin in Minnasota to go fishing.There's plenty more I just can't think right now.

<<What are their hobbies, favorite foods, childhood like? I want to life outside the base, I WANT TO KNOW SG-1>>

I don't know what season you are in or how closely you pay attention but they show stuff you want.
Jack likes Hockey, Golf and fishing.
Sam likes the taste of diet coke better
Daniel's parents died in a tragic accident.
Sam's mom died in a car accident when she was a teen
Jack's son killed himself with a gun

There's more there too but I haven't watched the earlier seasons in a long time. Sorry. There are episodes that give a little bit of backstory. like Gamekeeper, Threshold, Family, Crystal Skull and season 7's Chimera.

I think the characters are close. Hammond is like a father figured to them. Janet and Sam were friends. Jack and Daniel seem to be close as well.


I think Stargate is pretty popular for the show it is. It seems to have a bigger following in the U.K than in the U.S but I live in a nowhere town so I can't really gage how likes Stargate here or not. :D

Supreme Commander Thor
May 11th, 2004, 09:30 PM
Unpopular shows do NOT run for 8 seasons. The only sci-fi show to beat Stargate now in terms seasons is the X-files. The show is very popular.

lincon
May 11th, 2004, 11:19 PM
I agree with everything said.

But take oddessey 5 or jake 2.0, people would still have watched them if they were not cancelled, meaning they could have reached season 8.

Oddessey 5 I understand was cancelled because it cost to much to make an episode, not because it's bad.

Look at Enterprise, was going to be scrapped but they have spent more money on it to try another season.
We have been lucky with stargate, it could have finished a few seasons back but sci-fi coffed up money.

The long winded point :o i'm trying to make is, if you have enough money behind any show it could go to eight seasons.

Supreme Commander Thor
May 11th, 2004, 11:31 PM
The money was there because the show was popular. Therefore they could sell good ad space. If it wasn't popular it wouldn't have been makeing good ad revenues, and never would have made it eight seasons. Scifi bought it because they could make money off of it, and they couldnt do that if it wasnt popular.

lincon
May 12th, 2004, 12:24 AM
I understand what your saying.

But Enterprise is not popular otherwise they wouldn't have thought of scrapping it.
And yet they still continue with it.
That's all i'm saying, sometimes bad programs can stay and good ones can get cancelled.

Of course i'm glad SG is still around. :)

Bektrek
May 12th, 2004, 03:39 AM
I only have 1 friend and my dad and sis that watch Stargate. :(

I kinda wish Stargate was more popular cause, lets face it, how many other programmes have achieved more popularity in the past when there really bad.

Larry
May 12th, 2004, 07:18 AM
Hmmmm...........I guess I'd have to disagree on most every point. The show doesn't feel the least bit low budget to me. Yes, the location shoots are the backwoods in Canada, but as it's been explained, Stargates were only built on planets that could support human life and are earthlike.

When they do show space scenes and battles, I think the ships and the special effects always look first class.

I think the characters have been very well developed over the seasons, we've gotten to know them very well. I know people on other boards that won't even watch season six cause they were so angry about Daniel not being (other than 3 episodes) on that season. People are very passionate about the Stargate cast. There have been episodes that featured the Stargate team members outside of their work environment, but I'd say that people working for a top secret military orginization would probably spend most of their time at the facility.

As far as popularity goes, Stargate SG-1 is the highest rated program on the Sci Fi network. No, it's numbers won't rival the Friends finale, but it's a different setting with a much smaller available audience. I've read the reports that the president of the Sci Fi network would like a Season 9 before we've even seen the first episode of Season 8. I'd say the Sci-Fi network is pretty happy with the show.

joshing123
May 12th, 2004, 07:45 AM
I also have to disagree with most everything you said.

The show is no more low-budget looking than the X-Files which was filmed in Canada for most of its run. Their location shots were always the same rainy forests (even when they were supposed to be in Florida). The show is filmed in Canada so what other forest are they going to use? As for extras - I never got the impression that 100s of people were stationed there, much less were part of off world teams. Part of the top-secret nature. Not to mention what other show has that many extras every week? None I can think of. And the special effects are well done. That's not cheap.

As for rushed - I don't see it being any more rushed than any other show I watch (all genres). It's the way tv works - you get your limited amount of time and unless there's an overall arc or it's a soap, there’s a resolution. Even shows with arcs like B5 "rushed" the weekly stories in the 40 minutes they had. (I'm kind of surprised at the Enterprise mention - they haven't resolved much of anything in the last few episodes and there's been the overall unresolved arc all year.)

You'll also find many people don't really care to see too much of the team’s personal life. Even as a shipper, my focus is them going through the gates, getting into trouble and getting out of it in some interesting way.

And unpopular - well it's not at must see tv levels, and it probably would have been dropped if it was on a regular network. But relatively speaking, for a sci-fi show it does very well.

thor39
May 12th, 2004, 07:53 AM
Rushed ... NO WAY!!
the details on the actual show are amazing
It's just not as popular as it should be because they don't advertise that much and get the word out. This doesn't bother me because it allows the makers to concentrate on wawing a smaller amount of gaters :D

Jafana
May 12th, 2004, 08:05 AM
I really don't know what show you're watching if you believe this to be true.

low budget: I have to admit in the earlier seasons, some of the costumes looked a little dodgy, and the helmets on the jaffa... that was definately a mistake - but one they've rectified since, as much as they can. (And Teal'c apparently gets hair this season (8) yay!

Rushed: I agree with whoever said it before me - not any more rushed than any other show I've seen.
You compared it to alias. I don't think this is a fair comparison. For one thing, it's really frustrating to watch a show that doesn't conclude itself in some way each week. And the overarc is always there.
You've got the big bad they fight at the end of the season, but each episode on its own has a standalone storyline.
I've never been able to watch Alias for the very reason you enjoy it. I hate the fact they leave you hanging at the end of the episode. It reminds me of the cheap midday soaps that litter daytime tv.
It's particularly difficult for new viewers of these kinds of programs to get into it, whereas, with a standalone ep, you can generally get the gist pretty easily.

and I think the character development comes with their jobs... secret military facility - exposed on a daily basis to only a select group of people..
if you watch carefully, you see character interaction even within the military commands that are given. sure, i love the outside stuff as well.. but it's all the more interesting because you don't see it often. you'd get bored with it if thats all there was.
Besides, the show is Sci-Fi. It's meant to be about going to different worlds and saving the planet. and in that kind of environment, literally with the weight of the world hanging on your every professional move, there's generally not a great deal of time for personal stuff.

ShadowMaat
May 12th, 2004, 08:18 AM
I really don't know what show you're watching if you believe this to be true.

This is one of the phrases in fandom that I hate the most. Scorp is watching SG-1, just like everyone else. Just because his opinion differs from yours doesn't make his opinions any less valid and it doesn't mean that he "must have been watching something else." Just because YOU can't see something doesn't mean that HE can't.

Lots of people see slashy moments between Jack and Daniel. I don't. But I don't go around telling the slashers that they're wrong. If you can't see another person's viewpoint, at least respect that other viewpoints exist.

As for the topic: the budgeting has never bothered me. I do get tired of the Generic Forest which seems to be on every planet, but I think that Canada/Vancouver is a beautiful place for filming.

I do felt that a majority of this past season was VERY rushed- they tried to get through stuff so fast that they glossed over some pretty major plot points.

Character development comes and goes. It seems (to me) to happen mostly when the writers can't think of anything better to do. At least in recent seasons. And some characters definitely get overlooked.

I think that Stargate is fairly popular for a scifi show. The fact that it IS scifi is automatically going to limit its audience because some people will not watch a scifi show no matter how good it may be.

Bast
May 12th, 2004, 09:04 AM
All the planets except Abydos look like canada.

There is alot of different enviroments in canada , Why not visit the Tundra.
Why not go to California and film a episode there so you can have a tropical enviroment.

I am sick and tired of seeing every world as the same enviroment I see out my window in canada.

But I understand the Budget, look at Batman it got canceld because the effects cost to much, Farscape is the same.

Urgo
May 12th, 2004, 09:24 AM
The only episode where it seemed rushed/low budget is season 3 episode 21 Crystal Skull. When they are in that huge cave. The cgi background doesnt have enough detail and they stand out from it.

Bast
May 12th, 2004, 09:28 AM
Wormhole extreme was the worse episode ever!

ShadowMaat
May 12th, 2004, 09:29 AM
The only episode where it seemed rushed/low budget is season 3 episode 21 Crystal Skull. When they are in that huge cave. The cgi background doesnt have enough detail and they stand out from it.

They were still "learning" at that point. Things got better after that. ;)

Bast
May 12th, 2004, 09:32 AM
Did Nick Ballard Jackson grand pa reapear on stargate sg1?

SGSlugger
May 12th, 2004, 11:23 AM
Did Nick Ballard Jackson grand pa reapear on stargate sg1?

No. As far as we know he's still hanging out with those aliens. There has been rurmors though that he could reappear in season 8.

Teal'c
May 12th, 2004, 11:42 AM
Wormhole extreme was the worse episode ever!
Where the HELL did that come from? :P

And I have to disagree on most of the points in the first post, and what have Paramount got to do with anything? This ain't Trek! :P

Elwe Singollo
May 12th, 2004, 01:08 PM
I agree with everyone who opposes this thread's original post. The show is intended for 'sci-fi' fans, i don't think a romantic/comedy fan will get into sci-fi easily. The show is 'good enough' for Sci-Fi, but i guess its not good enough for some people...

Ugly Pig
May 12th, 2004, 01:39 PM
This is one of the phrases in fandom that I hate the most. Scorp is watching SG-1, just like everyone else. Just because his opinion differs from yours doesn't make his opinions any less valid and it doesn't mean that he "must have been watching something else." Just because YOU can't see something doesn't mean that HE can't.
In this case, though, I'd say that based on what he wrote it does sound like he has missed a great deal of the show, like when he complains that they shouldn't always wrap up everything neatly by the end of the show (which on SG-1 they're certainly don't always do) or the lack of character development or that we never see them away from the base (which I'd say we have seen more and more of in recent years). And "low budget"? Yeah, for "Emancipation", maybe.

My point being, it really does seem like the original poster has only seen a limited amount of episodes and happened to miss a lot that would adress the problems he has with the show. Of course, I could be totally wrong - but this is how he comes across to me.

Elwe Singollo
May 12th, 2004, 01:53 PM
I do agree, since he said we don't know what they're favorite foods, drinks, etc are, when the show did explain that.

ShadowMaat
May 12th, 2004, 02:07 PM
In this case, though, I'd say that based on what he wrote it does sound like he has missed a great deal of the show

Still not an excuse for the comment made, if you ask me. It still pisses me off when people say it. I think it's arrogant and condescending. If you think someone has "missed the point" then there are nicer ways of phrasing it than by suggesting that someone was watching another show. You could, for instance, point out instances where the original poster is wrong, which is what a majoirty of people on this thread have done. You (general you) could ask him- politely- if he's a new fan, or you could welcome him to the board and say something like, "Since you're new around here..." and then fill in a few blanks for him. Now look at this:

"Ugly Pig, you LIKED Abyss?? Are you sure you weren't watching something else? 'Cause that ep sucked!"

It completely invalidates your opinion, chalking you up as someone too stupid to know what show you're watching.

Maybe I am taking it a little personally, but I have had the phrase directed at me... multiple times- for liking an ep, for disliking an ep, for liking Jonas, for hating the direction of the show, etc. And in 99% of those cases, it was fully intended to be spiteful.

Maybe if Scorp sticks around and watches more eps he'll realize the "error of his ways" and come to see that Stargate's a pretty good show. But just because he hasn't seen as many eps as some of us is no reason to dismiss him completely. Consider it a chance to educate him, to indoctrinate him, to brainwash the little bugger. ;)

Ugly Pig
May 12th, 2004, 03:11 PM
Still not an excuse for the comment made, if you ask me.
Not suggesting it was.


Maybe if Scorp sticks around and watches more eps he'll realize the "error of his ways" and come to see that Stargate's a pretty good show.
You mean Stargate was a pretty good show. I don't mean that, but I think you do. Am I right? :D


Consider it a chance to educate him, to indoctrinate him, to brainwash the little bugger. ;)
Hmmm... Yeah. I'll get started...

Hey Scorp! Since you're new here, here's a helpful tip: Don't Listen to ShadowMaat. She's wrong, especially when discussing the writing quality of recent seasons.

... :p :p :p

Elwe Singollo
May 12th, 2004, 04:28 PM
:D Hope u catch up Scorp

ShadowMaat
May 12th, 2004, 05:10 PM
You mean Stargate was a pretty good show. I don't mean that, but I think you do. Am I right? :D

If you diffuse the current season into the rest of the show and take a look at it as a whole, then it's still good. But you're right. I think the writing for the past season has been pretty much crap and I don't see it showing any signs of improvement. I just consider the end of S6 as a stopping point and everything is fine. ;)


Hey Scorp! Since you're new here, here's a helpful tip: Don't Listen to ShadowMaat. She's wrong, especially when discussing the writing quality of recent seasons.

Bite me, Pig Boy. :P It's not my fault some of you aren't mature enough to heed the wisdom in my words. ;) Anyway, it's all just opinions until someone loses an eye.

Oh wait, that probably belongs on the thread about Odin...

Newbie
May 12th, 2004, 05:50 PM
it did sometimes looked to me low budget...but it doesn't really matter once you go into the gate :D... then it seems REAL
rushed - may be...sometimes episodes could be made better...TLC were rushed imho, could have been better, but don't start screaming on me, i know i prolly would have done much worse
unpopluar, NO WAY....anyone i aske about star trek/stargate knows both of them....or just stargate...so conclude from that... ;)

Elwe Singollo
May 12th, 2004, 05:57 PM
Difference between Stargate and Startrek, Startrek has been airing on Broadcast Television, where everyone has the channel, where not alot of people have Sci-Fi (compared to Fox, Nbc, etc)

I liked a handful of episodes in season 7, but i didn't like a few episodes has well, such as Grace, Death Knell, Fragile Unbalance (i not sure if thats the right title), and... Ressurection (what the heck, this episode could have been better being 'not made'). I loved the season finale and the season premiere episodes, as well as Chimera (i not sure if thats the right title).

Captain Amazing
May 13th, 2004, 07:17 AM
I disagree. Stargate doesn't seem low budget, have you seen Lost City?!? You can't get much more epic than that on TV!

TheScorpionsSting
May 13th, 2004, 07:37 AM
I have enjoyed reading all your comments and please don't take my post as an insult. I really like Stargate SG-1 and to be honest it is one of my favorite shows (more like second favorite). The show is well done but It just doesn't seem to get the recognition it deserves (lack of advertising?). Anyways let me try to clear up some things in my first post.

When I said low budget I wasn't talking about the special effects because they are good as they get sometimes. Especially the Asgard, ships etc. I was more talking about the limited use of special effects like they're on a tight budget, I want More battles with ships and weapons but don't over do it at the same time. One poster got it right though about diversifying the Stargate locations. It would be nice to see one in a Safari type setting or maybe in the rainforest, beach like setting with palm trees, on the ice, behind a water fall, hidden valley etc. It's hard to believe that all planets look like the rural areas of Canada with evergreen trees or a complete contrast to that, 1in a hot desert. Did the Ancients like places that had uncomfortable environments or was it planet changes?

I still stand by the show being rushed sometimes. I would like to see the writters take on some episodes like Lifeboat, I would have loved to see what happened immediately afterwards and I don't think they did [Spoiler?] Dr.Frasier justice in Heroes, they spent to much time with the camera crew and crying over O'neil and I didn't see to much care from O'neil about her death and Samantha only really talked about her during the memorial speech (to much time thinking about O'neil?). I guess what gets me the most is the way the primary villans are destroyed in just one episode. I would think it would take like 5 episodes focused on the villan to lead to that point of them being defeated. Like when Nerti just got her neck snapped and that was the end of it. It was ironic and unexpected but at the same time it was like "thats it?". Plus Anubis should have reacked havoc before being eliminated maybe in a way like LOTR or Dominion war where his whole army was used and a major battle was fought against all his enemies. It just seems convient that the "full blast" didn't hit Earth or others. The replicators are an excellent villan though, the best since the Borg.

I may take some of what I said back about the show having no character development but maybe I should have said that I'm sort of confused of what their characters are especially Samantha Carter. One moment shes all Nervous and then the next shes acting like a freak or coming back from motorcycle riding (in space race, maybe not?) And if Jack is an evolved form of Humans why is he not the least brightest? Lastly is Teal'c a vulcan? Out of all the Jaffa he seems to have the least emotion. I know he is a warrior but even Rak'nor and Bratac show that "if you pinch me it will hurt" and "laughing is fun" sort character. but I guess some of you were right because I have not watched some episodes in so long, I know Jack likes beer and Teal'c likes donuts though.

The show may beknown in the Sci-Fi world but it's quite unkown once you get out of there. I don't have cable so I watch the show when I can and before that I was stuck on season 6 but I go to a friends to watch Season 7 and i have almost seen all episdoes so maybe my judgement maybe clouded a little. All I know is that Sci-Fi Channel itsn't exaclty the most watched network and has a very specific audience but it's not like Smallville popular or anything.

jex_piperUK
May 13th, 2004, 07:38 AM
I don't think Stargate episodes seem low budget...the special effects are pretty spiffy for a cable show.

Elwe Singollo
May 13th, 2004, 11:35 AM
Yah, the special effects were spectacular in Lost City.

Bast
May 13th, 2004, 11:58 AM
The movie stargate was low budget, Did you notice the three moons on abydos were copied and pasted images of our Moon?They look exactly the same with the same surfaces and textures.

Newbie
May 13th, 2004, 04:16 PM
About the show being rushed and Narti...well if it took 5 eps to get her...i'd take like 10 to get Anibus??? that's half the season...that would be boring :( i think two parter would work but not 5 step-up eps...so it is not that rushed...and there can't be now BIG fleet/ppl war in SG1 because, we have just 1 ship...our aliences have other things to worry about, so all the damage is done by small team of 4, aka SG1 :D However there are some eps where there are huge amounts of ship, WATCH TLC ;)

Anthro Girl
May 13th, 2004, 06:01 PM
First of all, it's O'Neill, two "l"s. There's another O'Neil in the Air Force and he has no sense of humor. :p

As for your other points, I understand. I'm all for spaceships and bigger things blowing up, but I understand this is television, not Lucasfilm. ;) They do a really great job with the parameters they have to work with and I've watched the effects improve tremendously over time.

The location issue is what it is. They film in British Columbia for a number of different reasons and now their whole infrastructure for production is firmly established there. It would be asking a lot (and for a lot of money) to go haul everyone off to California or Montana for alternative location shoots. I understand they've lost the sand pits now, so I guess it'll be harder to do desert environments. It can get even more expensive to do CGI sets, so I'll take the compromise (i.e., the premise of Stargates going to planets of similar environments).

As for rushed, I don't find the entire series rushed, but some episodes have that feel for sure. Then again, when you only have about 42 minutes to get into trouble AND save the universe, there has to be a compromise. I'm not fond of constant cliffhangers or elaborate, multilevel plots that go on throughout the series. Stargate has some of those, but they've done a good job of keeping them simple or explaining them quickly (i.e., the protein marker from Jolinar, etc.). The more that happens, the more they run the risk of not ever attracting new viewers because of the "What did I miss?" feeling. I actually really like the self-contained get-in-trouble-get-out episodes, so to each of us or own, eh?

cheers,
mo

Elwe Singollo
May 13th, 2004, 08:47 PM
I was listening to some commenteries, and the producers and other ppl were explaining on how they were irritated by the time limit they had. I wish they gave Sg1 a full 60 minutes, haha...

Newbie
May 13th, 2004, 08:55 PM
I was listening to some commenteries, and the producers and other ppl were explaining on how they were irritated by the time limit they had. I wish they gave Sg1 a full 60 minutes, haha...
hye i wish that too, the series would be much more funner and eps would be much more informative, UNRUSHED, and less comercials, that would be the best..i'm tired of flipping trough channels while comercials are on :(

Anthro Girl
May 14th, 2004, 12:09 AM
I can't watch commercials. Record, record, record, skip, skip, skip. :) Oh, wait! Was that an Atlantis commerical??? Rewind, rewind, rewind! :rolleyes:

Teendragon
May 14th, 2004, 10:29 AM
yes i feel so left out in school , everyone hates it , well not u guys , thats why im here , how can they not like it , they always say its scifi , its just a little , theres so much action , and the occasional joke from them (tealc) :rolleyes:

petzke_42
May 14th, 2004, 06:26 PM
And if Jack is an evolved form of Humans why is he not the least brightest? Lastly is Teal'c a vulcan? Out of all the Jaffa he seems to have the least emotion. I know he is a warrior but even Rak'nor and Bratac show that "if you pinch me it will hurt" and "laughing is fun" sort character.


I'm assuming you mean "why is he not the brightest" or "why is he the least brightest." In either case, we are evolved apes, yet we aren't all the same intellectually. You could even argue that some of us are stupider than apes :P. Saying he is "evolved form of humans" doesnt necessarily mean "smarter," it could mean "more capable." The same type of thing applies to your comment on Teal'c. Some humans show more emotions than others. That's what makes us human, our differences. Same for Jaffa. They aren't all going to be the exact same physically and emotionally.

Lil Naitch
May 14th, 2004, 08:01 PM
I understand what your saying.

But Enterprise is not popular otherwise they wouldn't have thought of scrapping it.
And yet they still continue with it.
That's all i'm saying, sometimes bad programs can stay and good ones can get cancelled.

Of course i'm glad SG is still around. :)

Amen. That's why shows like Angel and Firefly get the axe, while reality shows and shows like Friends stay on the air forever.

As for Stargate being low budget, Just look at the special effects the show uses. They probably don't hire as many extras for extra SG teams so they can get quality FX. Rushed, I can see. But it is popula, otherwise it wouldn't be getting renewed.

Jafana
May 14th, 2004, 08:09 PM
This is one of the phrases in fandom that I hate the most. Scorp is watching SG-1, just like everyone else. Just because his opinion differs from yours doesn't make his opinions any less valid and it doesn't mean that he "must have been watching something else." Just because YOU can't see something doesn't mean that HE can't.

Lots of people see slashy moments between Jack and Daniel. I don't. But I don't go around telling the slashers that they're wrong. If you can't see another person's viewpoint, at least respect that other viewpoints exist.


I apologize if my comment sounded condescending. It wasn't meant to. Rather, It's purpose was joking and in fun.
I completely agree that people can see different things in a show. Thats why these forums can be so interesting.
Perhaps I should start using emoticons?

SaharaGate
May 15th, 2004, 03:46 AM
I really don't know what show you're watching if you believe this to be true.

low budget: I have to admit in the earlier seasons, some of the costumes looked a little dodgy, and the helmets on the jaffa... that was definately a mistake - but one they've rectified since, as much as they can. (And Teal'c apparently gets hair this season (8) yay!

Just piping up to vouch for Jafana (Hi Jen! :D )

I have absolutely no doubt she did not mean it in a condescending way - because she's just the sweetest ;) .

I think she was just pointing out that although we all watch the same show, she is seeing it so differently to this particular person (or this particular point of view, ie stargate as low budget and rushed) that it's like they are discussing different shows...

I'm sure she wasn't trying to be in the least bit offensive.

Just though I'd pipe up and say that since, as of just recently, I am kind of responsible for dragging her (down? ;) ) into the world of online stargate fandom. Ok, well just gateworld forums. But still, I take full credit for making her as obsessed as she is now. Before me, she was just addicted and engrossed :p

Muuuwaahahahahha.

*cringes at own tacky evil laughter*.

On topic....I don't think it is low budget but by all means, if the powers that be want to double it, I'd LOVE it. I don't think it is very rushed overall, but occassionally an episode does seem to wrap up too quickly. Also happy that, for the most part, they don't insist on making aliens (particularly advanced races) wear metallic silver clothes. Uggh! The few times it's been done I can't help but cringe. Other than that the costumes and props are usually great.

*Hugs everyone*

I'm feeling all romantic after seeing Prince Fredrick and Mary's wedding on TV. And I don't even go for weddings really!

JaffaCake
May 15th, 2004, 02:31 PM
Scorp - I agree with you 100% that the show seems rushed. I'm glad you started this thread.

Seems to me that the writers don't have enough confidence in their characters to let them simply BE. The show should be carried by the characters, not the plot of the week. Star Trek Next Generation was very good at allowing the characters to spark off of each other, as was Buffy (RIP!). The best show for character development and drama has got to be ER. Although some people may consider it to be pure "soap", every character on that show was in conflict with every other character, even the ones that were supposed to be friends. And they were believable conflicts, too.

Stargate is a brilliant concept: a sci-fi show set in the here and now with a "plausible" premise with its own internal logic (unlike X-Files which constantly contradicted itself). It's a great show which I love to watch every week, but how much better would it be if they allowed the characters room to breathe - then Stargate would really sing!

petzke_42
May 15th, 2004, 11:30 PM
Scorp - I agree with you 100% that the show seems rushed. I'm glad you started this thread.

Seems to me that the writers don't have enough confidence in their characters to let them simply BE. The show should be carried by the characters, not the plot of the week. Star Trek Next Generation was very good at allowing the characters to spark off of each other, as was Buffy (RIP!). The best show for character development and drama has got to be ER. Although some people may consider it to be pure "soap", every character on that show was in conflict with every other character, even the ones that were supposed to be friends. And they were believable conflicts, too.

Stargate is a brilliant concept: a sci-fi show set in the here and now with a "plausible" premise with its own internal logic (unlike X-Files which constantly contradicted itself). It's a great show which I love to watch every week, but how much better would it be if they allowed the characters room to breathe - then Stargate would really sing!

I do agree SOME episodes seem rushed. However, I also would like to add, that if they did allow more of the characters to "be" then it would take up more time, therefore leaving less time for the plot to be resolved, and it would end up being even MORE rushed. This could be avoided with more episodes that are character based, but then people would complain about the lack of "team."

barbkap
May 16th, 2004, 05:58 AM
Sorry, I have to disagree with you (although I respect your opinion). I don't think it's "low-budget". Can't remember the exact amount now, but the blowing up of the pyramid at the end of season 6 cost several hundred thousand dollars from what I heard!

And, I guess you have to watch all the episodes to find out more about their personal lives. They do interact outside of work...Jack & Teal'c go fishing, Sam, Jack & Daniel go out for dinner, they all go to the park with Cassie after she comes to earth...and lots more. You find out about Jack's wife and son, Teal'c's wife and son, Sam's dad, Daniel's parents and grandfather, Hammond's grandchildren. That seems like a lot of personal stuff to me!

If there was one thing I would change about SG1, it's that some of the characters in the story lines never reappear. I'd like to know what happened to some of the people they have encountered in the past. And, I'd love to see an episode about the Furlings.

Also, if you had the chance to read the article in TV Guide a few months ago, it stated that according to the ratings, Stargate SG1 was the top rated sci-fi TV show of all time (surpassing even Star Trek, I believe). It didn't get to stay on for 8 seasons by being 2nd best!!

As far as the "being rushed" comment, yes, I do wish that some of the episodes would be extended to more than one part. However, you have to remember that the writers only have about 45-50 minutes to get a storyline in. And to extend some of these episodes to two parts could make it seem too drawn out and boring. So, obviously they chose to fit it all into one part. Heard the producers say in a forum once that they would love to do a 65-minute show once...unfortunately the networks would never let them cause it would cut into some other show's time.

All in all, I have to say I think it's one of the best shows on TV today and I'm really going to be sorry when it's over.

Polyglot
May 20th, 2004, 06:48 AM
I'm a fairly newcomer to the Stargate scene, and I'm sure glad it's lasted this long. It would be really sad to come into a series after it was totally over--this way I get to enjoy at least one new season, where I get to keep up with everybody else who's seeing them for the first time.

But one thing I did look up, out of curiosity, I think proves just how popular the show is. I was surprised. I went to www.fanfiction.net to see how much fanfiction had been written about Stargate. And to my thorough cursory perusal of the numbers, it looks like as of today, Stargate has the number two spot with over 5,500 stories. The number one is Buffy, and is something like 22,000--kind of a big leap, I know, but there aren't any shows in between. That says to me that a lot of people like the show. And of course there's the fact that it's still around to do an eighth season! And maybe a ninth! I just keep getting surprised about how many people know and watch Stargate. (I'm just happy to now be one of them.)

Greesha
May 27th, 2004, 03:47 PM
my advice is this: all tv shows/movies/books/whatever have some bad parts. nothing is perfect. but if you focus on the bad, it will ruin your enjoyment altogether. imho, the good of sg-1 definitely outweighs the bad. just let a little suspension of disbelief take care of the identical pine forests & whatever, because if you keep thinking about how awful the show is, pretty soon it will be.

ShadowMaat
May 27th, 2004, 04:09 PM
Oh, I'm all for taking the bad with the good and concentrating on the good, but my problem is that where S7 is concerned, the bad far outweighs the good and it's harder for me to concentrate on a few individual moments than it is to remember all the big honkin' things that irritated me. ;) There is also only so far that my suspension of disbelief will stretch before it snaps, and it snapped several times during S7.

Taken as a whole, then yes, it's easy to ignore the badness of S7 and say that Stargate is a great show. It IS a great show, in my opinion. But the problems I had with S7 aren't going to go away any time soon and from what I've read of S8, things are only going to get worse. Granted, you can't base everything on a handful of spoilers and a couple of interviews, but I can get the gist of things, and I don't care for the vibe I'm getting. It isn't a matter of me expecting things to be bad and therefore they're bad, it's a matter of me recognizing my likes and dislikes and being able to surmise that my dislikes will be in majority in S8. So why watch?

I still love Stargate. I just find very little of what has aired since S6 to fit my definition of the show. I will not blindly accept everything that is thrown at me by TPTB just because "most of" the show is good. If something is bad, I'm gonna say it's bad. My opinion right now? The Emporer is not wearing any clothes. :P

petzke_42
May 27th, 2004, 04:47 PM
So why watch?



Don't. TPTB don't owe you anything.

TheScorpionsSting
May 27th, 2004, 05:13 PM
Maybe it was season 7 that got me a little "off beat" since I was watching it at the time of posting this. Anyways it had some really excellent episodes and some really boring ones but none of them were as bad or boring as Wormhole Xtreme. The feeling that you get when watching season 7 is that the series is coming to an end and the cast feels like they're about to disband for good, maybe this is why not so many people like it. I'll give season 7 seven credit though, to me personally it has the episode which I will never forget out of the entire series; Heroes Part 2.

ShadowMaat
May 27th, 2004, 06:13 PM
Maybe it was season 7 that got me a little "off beat" since I was watching it at the time of posting this. Anyways it had some really excellent episodes and some really boring ones but none of them were as bad or boring as Wormhole Xtreme.
In your opinion. I found what parts of S7 I watched to be tedious, boring, aggravating, insulting and only rarely exciting. However, I loved Wormhole X-treme! It's one of my favorite comedic eps. :)





The feeling that you get when watching season 7 is that the series is coming to an end and the cast feels like they're about to disband for good, maybe this is why not so many people like it.
Maybe that's the feeling YOU get. The feeling I got was that the writers didn't care anymore. They decided to slack off and slap anything onscreen because, hey, it's Stargate so OF COURSE the fans are gonna love it! Granted, in the first handful of eps it felt to me as if the cast had already given up- that they didn't care anymore, that they didn't want to be there, that their job was a job and wasn't fun anymore... but most of that sublimated out in later eps. However, the- as I see it- subpar writing continued and I'm sorry, but while you may be willing to forgive that, I can't. And I don't think I should have to.

Petzke- I have stopped watching. TPTB don't owe me anything, but I owe it to myself to say "enough is enough." I'm not going to subject myself to something I don't like just because "it's Stargate" or just because "it HAS to get better" because as far as I'm concerned it isn't and it won't.

Does that make me a bad person? Do I deserve to be condemned for not liking what Stargate has become? Is it MY fault that I'm not happy with the show? Well, I certainly hope I'm not a bad person, I don't think I deserve to be condemned for having a differring opinion (and trust me, from what I'm catching in my user rating, I'm definitely getting condemned) and maybe it IS my fault that I don't like Stargate anymore... because I refuse to lower my standards.

Does it make me any less of a fan just because I don't like what Stargate is now? No. Absolutely not. There are still six seasons of the show that I love and there are plenty of storylines and characters that I am more than happy to discuss in a positive and reverent way. ;)

Elwe Singollo
May 27th, 2004, 06:21 PM
I think you over-express yourself Shadow (laughs). I don't get why you continue to follow up on Stargate if you seem to not like it anymore (i feel the sameway after some boring ass episodes), but i'm just wondering. And although i don't totally 100 percent agree with everything you say, i don't think you deserve to be 'condemned' in any of the sort.

ShadowMaat
May 27th, 2004, 06:46 PM
I think you over-express yourself Shadow (laughs). I don't get why you continue to follow up on Stargate if you seem to not like it anymore (i feel the sameway after some boring ass episodes), but i'm just wondering.
I "follow up" on Stargate because despite all my bitterness, my cynicism and my pessimistic outlook, I still have this stubborn thread of hope that I was wrong and that things are going to get better. Which makes it all the worse when what I read sounds bad.

I don't actively seek out spoilers, but if someone posts something, I'll read it. I did read the Gateworld snippet about David DeLuise's upcoming appearances because I like David and love his character, but generally I don't read stuff because I'm not planning to watch and I know that what I read will probably upset me. ;)

As for why I keep posting my displeasure, it's because that's how I feel. When things upset me I have to talk about them because it helps me to understand it better, it helps me put things in perspective and I do it because I hope that I can make someone else understand why I feel the way I do... and maybe someone will even say "I feel that way, too" and help me feel less alone and crazed. Some people will gush endlessly about an ep or character they love, or even about the show in general and no one ever questions it or that person's right to post all that gushing ebullience, but when someone says, "I don't like..." they get questioned and their views are made suspect. I don't like that and frankly it makes me more inclined to keep posting like that just so that the groupmind doesn't do away with dissonant opinions entirely. :P

I post here because I love Stargate. I may not have liked S7 and I may have no intention of watching S8, but I still love what the show was and I will ALWAYS love it and I don't think I should be made to "go away" just because I'm not happy with the show's current direction.

I also like it here. I like the forums, I like the people who post here (well, some of them :P) and I like the wide variety of ideas and opinions that are expressed here every day. I love posts that challenge me and force me to really think about a subject and I love the fluffy posts where I'm free to "oggle" over all the eye candy and campaign to get Luke back on the show. ;)

Elwe Singollo
May 27th, 2004, 06:50 PM
I would like to say... ur such a 'lot of word' user, haha... :) You didn't even like the one episode of season 7? I love this forum too :), not sure about some people. I also like how you said you had to speak your 'disinterest' in the show to make you understand better, or something like that, i totally understand.

ShadowMaat
May 27th, 2004, 07:04 PM
I liked some eps of S7, but it wasn't enough to outweigh what I saw as the overwhelming badness of the over-all season. Fragile Balance was a stupid ep story-wise, IMO, but I loved Michael Welch's performance and feel that the ep is worth watching just to see him in action. Heroes had its share of problems and it was kinda gimmicky, but I still liked it and felt it was a good send-off for a much loved character. Fallout had some atrocious science problems and some plot hiccups, but it still had some intriguing character stuff and hey, it's a Jonas ep. The shallow in me will love it just for that. ;) Chimera had some good character stuff in it, too. It all got horribly mangled and misappropriated, but I still managed to like it. :P And, of course, Fallen/Homecoming was an appalling, over-rushed hatchet job of a premiere (IMO), but the Daniel/Jonas stuff was superb. :)

But that's only a handful of eps, and even the ones I liked have qualifiers to them. The season wasn't enough to keep me tuned in on a regular basis, and that's a first for me since I started watching the show.

Elwe Singollo
May 27th, 2004, 07:09 PM
You didn't even like the season finale? I like bits and pieces of every episode, even the really bad ones, but i have to say, i still enjoyed the 7th season, although Fragile Balance was kind of a bad episode, and what the heck, i rather have Jonas be in the season finale than in Fallout, although i did enjoy the episode a tiny bit, but where was my Teal'k/Jonas friendship, i couldn't find it!? Also, that Kinsey biatch really annoys me, whats that episode... 'Inaugration' (sp?) or something like that, that episode annoyed me because of that Kinsey... Ahhh, i'm yelling, not really, but inside i am :)

keshou
May 27th, 2004, 07:10 PM
Shadow, I'm curious as to what it would take to get you watching in Season 8 again. What spoilers could you hear that would have you intrigued enough to tune in? And no fair saying Jonas coming back, 'cause you know, the whole "cold day in Netu" thing. ;)

Are you even planning on watching the premiere??

Elwe Singollo
May 27th, 2004, 07:11 PM
Also, i've read the spoilers, the episodes in season 8 seem interesting, what don't you like about them Shadow?

ShadowMaat
May 27th, 2004, 07:38 PM
I didn't watch whole sections of S7. I watched through Revisions and was so disgusted by the triteness of that ep that I stopped watching. I watched Avenger 2.0 because I love Felger but ended up being appalled and outraged by the overwhelming stupidity of... everything, especially Felger. I watched Birthright because it was a Chris Judge script... but it didn't really do anything for me. I watched Evolution 1 because friends begged me to, saying I'd love it... but I didn't. I saw Fallout because it was Corin's ep. I watched Chimera mostly out of spite for S/J ship and was pleased to find that I really liked Pete for who he was... although Daniel's story should have taken precendence. And I tuned in for Heroes just because. I skipped everything else. I HAD intended to watch Lost City because I knew it had some of the set-up for Atlantis, but then I got wind of the spoilers and they pissed me off so badly I refused to watch. I have major "issues" with the revelations about Jack in that ep which I think I've discussed elsewhere. I also resented the fact that it sounded like a retread of Fifth Race. And then, of course, there was the shippy stuff. I don't think I'm sorry I missed it.

Kes- I'm not planning to watch the premiere. As for what could make me tune in again:
A return to actual plots that matter.
Stop recycling everything under the sun.
No more "homages"!!
Remember that Stargate is about exploration and defense from alien attacks- not the big bad government.
Remeber that Stargate is about Stargate, not whether or not Sam and Jack will get it on.
Give Sam a backbone again!!
Remember that SG-1 is a TEAM and that the team has more than two people in it.
Take chances with plots instead of following the same tired retreads.
Develop your characters!! And I mean actual development, not who's sleeping with whom or who's pining after whom or what Daniel had for breakfast. And please, for the love of fluffy puppies, can the additional characters NOT be one-dimensional cliches??

I could probably think up more, but that would be a good start. ;)

As for the spoilers, well, I don't want to get specific, but it sounds like they're going to be recycling a lot of old material- or "revisiting past eps" as they like to call it, although the past eps they're revisiting would generally be best left alone. The ship factor is going to be ratcheted up even while Sam is continuing to see Pete. There's going to be less focus on big offworld stuff and more focus on problems closer to home. There will be less action-oriented stuff and more eps focusing on the lives of the characters.

Character development is something that, in my opinion, should happen during the action. At least in a show like Stargate. It shouldn't be the focus of an ep because the focus of the show (again, in my opinion) is about the adventure, not the characters. Yes, the characters need SOME development, but don't stop the whole show just so we can watch Sam snog some guy or... minor S8 spoiler (watch Teal'c go apartment hunting). And I find Jack's "new job" to be patently unbelievable. I'm sorry, but there's no way I could ever accept that as a reasonable possibility, not in THIS universe. ;)

keshou
May 27th, 2004, 08:27 PM
As for what could make me tune in again:
A return to actual plots that matter.
Stop recycling everything under the sun.
No more "homages"!!
Remember that Stargate is about exploration and defense from alien attacks- not the big bad government.
Remeber that Stargate is about Stargate, not whether or not Sam and Jack will get it on.
Give Sam a backbone again!!
Remember that SG-1 is a TEAM and that the team has more than two people in it.
Take chances with plots instead of following the same tired retreads.
Develop your characters!! And I mean actual development, not who's sleeping with whom or who's pining after whom or what Daniel had for breakfast. And please, for the love of fluffy puppies, can the additional characters NOT be one-dimensional cliches??

I could probably think up more, but that would be a good start. ;)

Love your list and agree with much of what you're saying. Good story arcs would cure a lot of problems. I just haven't given up yet. I was actually encouraged that the RDA/AT interview (in Scifi magazine) indicated there were some new "proteges" on the writing staff. Maybe they'll bring some new ideas to the table.



Character development is something that, in my opinion, should happen during the action. At least in a show like Stargate. It shouldn't be the focus of an ep because the focus of the show (again, in my opinion) is about the adventure, not the characters. Yes, the characters need SOME development, but don't stop the whole show just so we can watch Sam snog some guy or... minor S8 spoiler *snip*. And I find Jack's "new job" to be patently unbelievable. I'm sorry, but there's no way I could ever accept that as a reasonable possibility, not in THIS universe. ;)

They used to do a good job with character development contained within story arcs. The Jolinar story arc, the Tok'ra story arc, etc. Not sure why it's become so much more difficult these days. I'm optimistic about some of the things I'm hearing about the season premiere, although I'll admit some of the other episodes sound like they might resemble Lifetime movies more than Stargate. :o

It's certainly a big change for Jack but I'm open to the possibilities -- mainly because I have hopes it might provide a few new challenges for RDA and revitalize his interest in the O'Neill character.

Maybe season 8 will end up being better than you expect. One thing about lowered expectations, there's nowhere to go but up! And there's always Atlantis. And McKay. ;)

ShadowMaat
May 27th, 2004, 08:31 PM
And there's always Atlantis. And McKay. ;)
Mmm.... McKay... :D Yes, that is definitely something to look forward to. Er. *glances at topic* And hopefully Atlantis won't seem low-budget or rushed and will gain a good following even if it isn't as popular as it "should" be. ;)

Rookie
May 27th, 2004, 08:47 PM
They should concentrate on shorter number of episodes per season to make them better quality. They make 20+ eps per season so if they went with say 14 instead, they could use the money saved to put into bigger battles and better special effects.

One thing that has annoyed me from the beginning is the lack of sticking with the main story arc throughout the season. They go off on these boring tangeants barely related to the current main plot just to fill in time. In certain episodes they speak about the main threat but there's no behind the scenes stuff of the bad guys like on other shows grrrrrrr.

Elwe Singollo
May 27th, 2004, 08:57 PM
Although i do kind of get 'annoyed' with the non-continuing storylines, i think Stargate is more of a 'different planet of the week' kind of show. I dont know, maybe it isn't, but thats what i observed throughout the seasons. I saw some Stargate Atlantis spoilers, the stories seem as good/bad as SG-1's, well thats my opinion. Also with the 'less episode' suggestion, although i kind of agree, i don't think Sci-Fi would pay 1.9 million per episode anymore, i think the budget would change if the episode count went lower, currently for the past 5-6 years, it has been 22 episodes, except for season 1 where it had 21 episodes, and season 8 will only have 20 episodes, and oh yes, Atlantis will only consist of 20 episodes as well.

flynn1959
May 28th, 2004, 11:57 AM
Too much of the budget is spent on F.X. that last for a few seconds and are then forgotten by the viewers.

They film the episodes too quickly and more than one at a time to accomodate RDA and his reduced schedule ,they should have him in less episodes but for longer in the ones he is in.

They rip off old shows, films etc so that we can all see what is going to happen after the first 5 mins .Too much ship of ANY kind ,not enough of what drew us to the show in the first place .Team, exploration, mythology etc.

TheScorpionsSting
May 29th, 2004, 01:06 PM
Maybe that's the feeling YOU get. The feeling I got was that the writers didn't care anymore. They decided to slack off and slap anything onscreen because, hey, it's Stargate so OF COURSE the fans are gonna love it! Granted, in the first handful of eps it felt to me as if the cast had already given up- that they didn't care anymore, that they didn't want to be there, that their job was a job and wasn't fun anymore... but most of that sublimated out in later eps. However, the- as I see it- subpar writing continued and I'm sorry, but while you may be willing to forgive that, I can't. And I don't think I should have to.


For some parts I think we are saying the same thing, but since you didn't see all of season 7 you have missed some important key parts that make the series feel like it's coming to a close.

Bast
May 29th, 2004, 07:37 PM
Never saw season 7 yet :(

Elwe Singollo
May 30th, 2004, 09:48 AM
I can't wait for my season 7 DVD !!! :) I wanna listen to some commentaries :)

Greesha
May 31st, 2004, 10:45 AM
am i the only person here who *gasp* liked season 7? *cowers in corner*

ShadowMaat
May 31st, 2004, 11:58 AM
am i the only person here who *gasp* liked season 7? *cowers in corner*
Yes. :P

Actually, lots of people liked S7. Some of 'em even LOVED it. I think I may even have heard a few say it was the best season ever. I just don't agree. ;)

meimei
May 31st, 2004, 12:21 PM
As far as rushed, well, I kinda have to agree. I realize that there is limited time for an episode (42 or 43 minutes). I also realize that Sci-Fi needs commercials to keep revenue up to keep the show going. What I would really, really love to see on the DVD's is director's cuts. I have all six seasons and I absolutely love the commentaries that started in season four. Unfortunately it just confirms, in most cases, what I have known all along. We are missing stuff that was filmed but cut in post. I would buy every season again if they would go back and put those cut scenes back in! I would buy S1 through S3 again if they would put commentaries on those!

PTB, listen up. Willing to spend more money to support my addiction!! Pay attention!!

meimei
May 31st, 2004, 12:28 PM
am i the only person here who *gasp* liked season 7? *cowers in corner*


Please, take my hand. Come out of the corner. You are not alone. I gave up several Friday girls night out because of fear that the VCR wouldn't do it's job! (Small town, electricity goes out almost daily. Just a couple of minutes but enough to shut off VCR).

Ugly Pig
May 31st, 2004, 12:41 PM
What I would really, really love to see on the DVD's is director's cuts. I have all six seasons and I absolutely love the commentaries that started in season four. Unfortunately it just confirms, in most cases, what I have known all along. We are missing stuff that was filmed but cut in post.
This is true for some episodes, but certainly not always. Sometimes they talk about how certain episodes actually run short and they have to make it longer somehow. 'Window of Opportunity' is one example.

Otherwise, I'm with you. Why they don't put deleted scenes on the DVDs (as extras, at least, if not reinserted into the actual episodes) is beyond me. Especially since there's been deleted scenes available to watch on SciFi's website.

Slainte
May 31st, 2004, 12:41 PM
am i the only person here who *gasp* liked season 7? *cowers in corner*
There's a whole "silent majority" out here that loved S7. I'm one of the fans on S7, although I tend not to be silent.:)

Grace was terrific.
Fragile Balance was memorable.
Avenger 2.0 was a hoot.
Heroes 1&2 made me think.
Space Race was funny, loved the Niles clone.
Resurrection direction was edgy and different from the usual SG-1.
And so on and so on.

Stand tall and proudly say "I am a fan of Season 7! ;)
You are not alone.

meimei
May 31st, 2004, 12:45 PM
This is true for some episodes, but certainly not always. Sometimes they talk about how certain episodes actually run short and they have to make it longer somehow. 'Window of Opportunity' is one example.

I remember that. But they said it was unusual to run short. That was because they were refilming each repeated time line one scene after another just adding props to make it look like another loop.

petzke_42
May 31st, 2004, 01:34 PM
I liked Season 7, just like any season, some eps I liked more than others.

USS Thunderchild
May 31st, 2004, 02:25 PM
I don't agree with a lot of the post, including the idea that many of the episodes feel rushed (since there's only a certain ammount you can cram into an hour of programming), but the same freakin Canadian outdoor scene is killing me! Enough with the spruces, and pebbles! Dammit!

Oh, and heroes, Part. 2 had a really good huge troop sequence that was pretty badass.

Phil

Elwe Singollo
May 31st, 2004, 05:57 PM
:)

Oh, and heroes, Part. 2 had a really good huge troop sequence that was pretty badass.
Yah it did! I liked that scene.:)

MartoufMarty
July 2nd, 2004, 02:02 PM
All the planets except Abydos look like canada.

There is alot of different enviroments in canada , Why not visit the Tundra.
Why not go to California and film a episode there so you can have a tropical enviroment.

I am sick and tired of seeing every world as the same enviroment I see out my window in canada.

they have the desert looking places in BC. around Penticton it's basically a desert. not all just forest. grasslands, coastal, tundra. that's why BC is a good place to film things. it's cheaper than going to California. alot cheaper i believe. that's why Vancouver is (i believe) called the New Hollywood

hail_jack
July 3rd, 2004, 01:42 AM
Probably because it IS low budget, rushed and despite the show's excellent storylines/cool ass effects it doesn't seem to be that popular...I think Sci Fi/Sky should seriously put some money behind the show as it is at least one of their most popular shows...I also think a bit more exposure (spelling?) would help.. SG1 should be at least as popular or as highly regarded as Star Trek...well..Star Trek...highly regarded? popular? I don't know but it seems to be quite popular over here so some ads would help

Torley
July 3rd, 2004, 02:39 AM
Actually, I don't have the numbers, but I think Stargate SG-1 currently has some serious budget backing compared to other sci-fi shows still airing. Can someone please confirm this? ($1.9 million/ep, littlemigueljr?) Even when the show was beginning, I think they did a lot with what they had -- certainly their matte backdrops of grandeur and elegance stood out to me more than any of the Star Trek series (although some of Enterprise's visual FX are looking very nice, to its credit). I couldn't believe how well the Replicators were done, even in the early seasons.

I think people new to the show feel differently about Season 7 than, say, those who have been watching since Day 1. I'm relatively new to SG-1 and have sucked it all in. I have fave eps from each season but the ultimate thing for me would be the series finale.

Indiana
July 3rd, 2004, 06:08 AM
Some episodes do feel rushed. there have been many a time when I've stopped and said, "Well, is that it?" that kinda ended very rushed like. Early on in the series nothing seemed rushed. In fact I don't think it felt rushed until possibly season 4. We probably started to have a more episodes that ended with that "Is that it?" feeling. I remember watching the early season one finale/season two opener. There was nothing rushed about that. There was nothing rushed about watching SG-1 walk off into the Stargate many atimes.

Low budgeted. All movies are low budgeted. Even Lord of The Rings was low budget. ;) I mean, I bet Pete Jackson would have loved another 300 mill to make the movies. All movies producers have to shrink their budgets to try and get their thing made.

As for popularity. I'm surprised at how many people I find out like Stargate. they're not the hardcore fan like me who goes online and researches it or goes to web forums and buys the DVDs, but i know a lot of people who casually tune in. I was sitting in my work staff room eating lunch and one guy started complaining that he forgot to tape the last Stargate. Then another women said she saw it. There was only three of us in the room, but I would never have thought they would watch it. There are two guys on my basketball team who watch it. There's some more peeps in my work who I believe also watch it. Then there was people in my college course who I knew watched it. It surprises me how many people like it, but a lot of people don't know about it.

I can understand why ShadowMatt might not enoy Stargate anymore. it doesnt have that same mystery about it. Or the same atmosphere it had in s1-3. As time went on the Visual effects have improved, wheras the stories have not. Sometimes you get the odd episode, which is really powerful, but mainly they're not as they once were.

prion
July 3rd, 2004, 03:25 PM
Yup, Sg1 is low budget, compared to say, network shows. We're always going to see coniferous trees because that's what Vancouver has, and the budget doesn't allow for htem to travel to better places. They actually did more traveling (from the looks of it) when the show as on Showtime. And the producers recently said in an article out in one of those scifi magazines that yes, they've hit up against a budget wall, so expect to see more episodes on base. And I wouldn't be surprised if we see another 'clip' episode in season 8.

I thought the show had better quality throughout while on Showtime, although I am one of the people who didn't like the change of writers in season 4. Or Sam's awful hairstyle. :eek:

I think the original Trek has much more going for it as it tackled more issues; SG1 is tackling Goa'uld. Another plus for the original Trek (sorry, Enterprise bores me to tears even though I like the cast) is that they had tags at the end where you resolved the episode, at least to some degree. They rarely do that on TV anymore, and just leaving you hanging. There have also been times in SG1 when the characters just seemed to be at odds with each other, and you wondered, heck, if they don't care about each, why should I care?

Indiana
July 4th, 2004, 02:25 AM
I also did not like the change of writers in Season Four. I think when Johnathan Glassner left it contributed to somehow the stories decrease of quality. Also as an executive producer he could have more power over what other writers would write about.

The reason we had a clip episode in season seven was to save money for the big climax. They had a clip show and shot it on a set that would also be used in The lost City so they saved a lot of money in that sesne. If it seemed a lot of episodes were earth based this season then perhaps it's because they were cutting the budget to save up for the big climax.

Beckmen
July 5th, 2004, 02:01 AM
Yeah, it is pretty anoyying how the show is handled. My cheif complaints:

-Using the same actors for differant roles, which they are doing now in Atlantis with Garwin whatshisname...
-All of the Goa'uld sets and costumes look horrible. The sets are obviously wood and plastic, hallways are re-used like crazy, and the "metal" jaffa and Goa'uld costumes are obviously rubber! It's got the production values of a Star Wars Fanfilm!
-The constant wrapping up of on-going plots. This has happened since the begining really (killing off Apophis 50 times, only to bring him back), but since Season 5 it's been even worse. They are always preparing for the end of the series, but then--whoops--we got re-newed, better get working on some new plots! These renewal decisions need to be made earlier...studios and stations need to commit to a whole season BEFORE the writing of the last season is done...or at least have some finale stipulation where if the series gets canned, they will permit a 2-hour movie to be produced as a quickie tie-up for the series.

Ugly Pig
July 5th, 2004, 03:26 AM
-All of the Goa'uld sets and costumes look horrible. The sets are obviously wood and plastic, hallways are re-used like crazy, and the "metal" jaffa and Goa'uld costumes are obviously rubber! It's got the production values of a Star Wars Fanfilm!
What are you talking about?? SG-1 has excellent production values for a TV show. When I see comments like this, I just have to wonder what the #$¤!! some people are expecting.

Indiana
July 5th, 2004, 04:42 AM
I'd say SG-1 have some fairly good production values, but thats where they fail. Because some aspects are really good, the weaker ones (yes they can have weak aspects, they're not all perfect) show up a lot easier.

Are the sets obviously plastic to you because you've watched the behind the scenes and saw that on construction they're made of wood?

ShadowMaat
July 5th, 2004, 05:12 AM
Even high production values and dazzling SFX don't make up for deficiencies in plotting. ;)

Ugly Pig
July 5th, 2004, 05:45 AM
Even high production values and dazzling SFX don't make up for deficiencies in plotting. ;)
A true statement, but what does it have to do with Stargate SG-1? :p

ShadowMaat
July 5th, 2004, 06:17 AM
A true statement, but what does it have to do with Stargate SG-1? :p
If your poor piggy brain can't make the connection, dear, there's nothing I can do to help you. :P

Beeblebrox
July 5th, 2004, 08:28 PM
Wormhole extreme was the worse episode ever!

Or maybe the best. ;) I just bought Season 5 on DVD just to get this ep. In fact, it was this episode that got my wife hooked on SG-1. Before that, she thought it was just another low budget SciFi show. She now knows how wrong she was!

-B

Hohenzollern
July 10th, 2004, 09:25 AM
***Sea 8 Spoiler Alert***

Sure. All valid opinions. I have no overall problems with any of them, though I may not agree totally with the finer points. But I could see it.

On budget, the episodes look good OK I guess and one can see a upward trend in quality since the first episode. But, hell yes, I would love to see MORE FX, MORE asgard ships, MORE space battles, etc. Would love to see MORE space fleets pound the snot out of each other. The glider battle over the Antarctic in Lost City Pt2 was pretty good.

On writing, just finish off the replicators already. There is a whole universe of other villains. They painted themselves into a corner on this villain, in that they are nigh unstoppable. They have the ancient weapon Jack pulled out of his ass, now just off them already and be done with that. However I readily admit that without the reps to hold the Asgard in check, the Asgard would have cleaned the Gou'ald's clock, and thus no show. That said, lets move on from the reps at this time.

On the issue of bringing more "force" through the gate. Yes; I have always thought that when encountering resistance, and IF circumstances permit (i.e. not suicide) then YES...bring an MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) through the gate. Makepeace is a Colonel. A Colonel commands a MEU, not a squad.

Cons to this is that obviously increased casualties would possibly have tipped the program's hand. What do you tell the families of the personnel? Also one could argue that using more force in the past, might have cause the Goa'ould to consider the Tau'ri more of a threat SOONER and thus have come to wipe our collective butts out before we could have prevented said wiping out.

In short, I agree on a bit more force. I have felt that frustration as well. Get some light armored vehicles through that gate with TOW Missiles, Heavy Auto grenade launchers and the like. We are now back to the budget issue, obviously ;-). Also the recent addition of the Super Soldiers would probably negate most conventional, hand held/operated Earth weaponry, however they have that virus based weapon that seemed to make short work of the few that ringed down to the Antarctic in Lost City pt2. It seemed to emenate from the grenade lauchers attached to their weapons. <??>

Another thought, only tenuously related to the topic at hand, I find it rather loathsome that the Prometheus is manned by Air Force personnel. With all due respect to any AF personnel, as a SHIP, the Prometheus should be manned by the Navy and embark Col Makepeace and more of his "gyrenes". If there are later, and LARGER ship designs, I would love to see such a deployment in MEU (2,000 incl supp personnel) strength. As it is the Prometheus should have multiple ring transporters to simultaneously debark ground troops and heavy equipment to rapidly establish a beachhead or foothold into a hostile area. Ooops the damn budget issue again!! ;-( I realize that any TV franchise is a business and is limited by its Advertisement draw, etc.

Just saying this things would be sweet.

baal07
July 10th, 2004, 04:36 PM
I dont tink it is nerly populer as it should be but if kurt Russell (orejenul jack) replaced
Richered dean anderson (jack) it would be as populer as sapranos or more

SG1TOM
July 11th, 2004, 12:28 AM
In many ways, yes low budget. Costs too much to go on location or rent a first class sound stage. the fact that they have gone to Canada to produce it tells you that money is a BIG issue.

Rushed? Yeah, sometimes.

My biggest rant? The same old thing. Shields fail, hyperdrive fails, yet the enemy never seems to have the same problems. And why is it that characters (good and bad) always seem to escape in the LAST second?! Why do they all speak English? (yeah, I know, so we can all understand them). Why does meeting a much advanced alien ALWAYS result in interaction. One might think that a few close encounters with superior beings would OCCASSIONALLY result in.....NOTHING.

And for goodness sakes, ENOUGH with the constant capture and escape thing!

aAnubiSs
July 11th, 2004, 06:19 AM
I believe it's $2.2M/ep.

Channara
August 28th, 2004, 02:44 PM
A lot's been said. Took me a while to read it all but here you go, my two cents :)

As for the forests, someone said, it's the habitable worlds the ancients chose for building stargÅtes and as for someone who lives in a foresty country, I'd say that it's one of the best environments for basic survival, the jungle is a tad too hot and lethal with nasty insects and the soil in rainforests is too poor to support growing crops, tundra on the other hand is a little too barren and a desert - well I never understood how people in Abydos managed to survive anyway. Need I say why a glacier is a bad place to live?
If you're interested in the geography of survival, I'm willing to discuss. :)

As for the episodes being rushed, what do you people mean anyway? I don't understand the concept and this is not mocking, I really don't get it.

And as for the show being unknown, they air StargÅte here in Finland on the biggest channel prime time Wednesday night - does that sound unknown to you? They (tv network) buy it to a country with a population of 5 million people, air it prime time and actually bother paying for translating subtitles. Still sounds unknown? How about the fact that, nowadays, when you talk to someone into scifi you can't mention Star Trek and Babylon 5 without mentioning StargÅte.



And if Jack is an evolved form of Humans why is he not the least brightest?
(Channara: You mean to say "why isn't he smart?")

Lastly is Teal'c a vulcan? Out of all the Jaffa he seems to have the least emotion. I know he is a warrior but even Rak'nor and Bratac show that "if you pinch me it will hurt" and "laughing is fun" sort character.

What makes you think that Brigadier General O'Neill isn't smart? So he's a funny guy, but with his service record he wouldn't be alive if he wasn't smart - IMO.

And as for Teal'c - well, I think that him not saying much and often saying things in a funny way (undomesticated equines - lol) is just to facilitate the fact that he, really, isn't human or from Earth. He comes from a different culture where you don't babble like Daniel, make remarks like O'Neill or know lots about astrophysics like Sam. No, he comes from a culture where his poker face could save the lives of his men, he was the First Prime after all, and I think that the episodes where we see the young Teal'c we can see more of his passion and unability to control his feelings. And, lastly, would you call a man who kisses a fullblown hottie (who can kill you in an instant, btw) in the gateroom, a Vulcan?!

I sure wouldn't - his ears just don't look right ;)

ShadowMaat
August 28th, 2004, 02:59 PM
As for the episodes being rushed, what do you people mean anyway? I don't understand the concept and this is not mocking, I really don't get it.
Rushed means that some people feel that not enough time is given to developing stories and characters. A plot is introduced, twisted, and resolved before you can say "mitochondrion". ;)

Personally, I do feel that the stories are rushed sometimes. Plots which could have staggering implications end up getting mentioned in passing and then it's on to something else which just has you starting to question things when it's time for a different story. It can be a little frustrating sometimes.

Channara
August 28th, 2004, 03:09 PM
Rushed means that some people feel that not enough time is given to developing stories and characters. A plot is introduced, twisted, and resolved before you can say "mitochondrion". ;)
Interesting. I've never felt that during little over 7 seasons. Maybe I'm extra quick to follow.

Like that's the real reason - my intellect - but a girl can hope, right? :)

ShadowMaat
August 28th, 2004, 03:55 PM
Interesting. I've never felt that during little over 7 seasons. Maybe I'm extra quick to follow.
It isn't really a matter of being "quick to follow" so much as it is wanting the story to slow down and be developed MORE. "Once upon a time there were some bad aliens. We beat them. The end." That's easy to follow, but it might be nice to know MORE. Like, why were the aliens bad? Why were they attacking us? How did we beat them? When a story is rushed, folks feel that there isn't enough information. The story is still there, but there could be more to it. It could be, y'know, BIGGER. :D That's all. hehe

Channara
August 28th, 2004, 04:55 PM
When a story is rushed, folks feel that there isn't enough information. The story is still there, but there could be more to it. It could be, y'know, BIGGER. :D That's all. hehe

I see what you mean now. I thought rushing meant to go fast. But to leave things out.. I don't think I've got that feeling after Season 1 with the exception of Foothold in Season 3.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification. :)

Ronald Czekalski
August 28th, 2004, 05:11 PM
It's going to seem even more low budget now that the SciFi channel is in charge. This show doesn't work as an earth - based cops and robbers, and it looks like that's where it's headed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the supporting off - screen staff are different. A great show heading south, I'm afraid.

LordAnubis
August 28th, 2004, 08:28 PM
I also have to disagree with most everything you said.

The show is no more low-budget looking than the X-Files which was filmed in Canada for most of its run. Their location shots were always the same rainy forests (even when they were supposed to be in Florida). The show is filmed in Canada so what other forest are they going to use? As for extras - I never got the impression that 100s of people were stationed there, much less were part of off world teams. Part of the top-secret nature. Not to mention what other show has that many extras every week? None I can think of. And the special effects are well done. That's not cheap.

As for rushed - I don't see it being any more rushed than any other show I watch (all genres). It's the way tv works - you get your limited amount of time and unless there's an overall arc or it's a soap, there’s a resolution. Even shows with arcs like B5 "rushed" the weekly stories in the 40 minutes they had. (I'm kind of surprised at the Enterprise mention - they haven't resolved much of anything in the last few episodes and there's been the overall unresolved arc all year.)

You'll also find many people don't really care to see too much of the team’s personal life. Even as a shipper, my focus is them going through the gates, getting into trouble and getting out of it in some interesting way.

And unpopular - well it's not at must see tv levels, and it probably would have been dropped if it was on a regular network. But relatively speaking, for a sci-fi show it does very well.
I agree with Josh and Larry in that I disagree with everything you said. Nothing is rushed at all; they only have about 40 minutes per episode, the rest is commerical time, so what do you want, a series of "to be continued" episodes?

The budget is first class when it comes to effects. When they are offworld, they have more effects than onworld effects, but they effects are always good; better than Enterprise and a few other series I won't mention. Ya, so they recycle forrest scenes from Canada...so? That's not low budget.

The problem with most sci-fi shows that aren't full blown movies is the effects, which are very costly. If a show can find a small way to keep expenses down, why not use it? Especially if this won't compromise the quality of the show.

Popularity? Do a Google search on "Stargate" or "SG-1" or "Atlantis" and see what you get. Ask any REAL sci-fi buffs if they like Stargate and see what you hear. I think it's a very popular show. Like some of the other posts above, if it weren't, why would it still be on for 8 years with a spin-off series? It wouldn't. Let's see if Enterprise makes it that long. Don't forget, TNG only lasted about 7 and I'm not sure how long Voyager lasted, like 6 seasons?

Now regarding the characters, lately, in Season 8, they've been doing a lot of character development. In the past, they've devoted entire episodes developing the characters too. Stargate differs from other sci-fi series in that the characters are real, fleshed out people...not cardboard cutouts. Star Wars for example...do you honestly feel that you really know any of those characters, from any of the movies well? Even Han Solo, the character with the most personality is sorta mysterious. We don't know much about him at all, do we? No.

Star Wars TOS worked really hard to develop the characters. The movies did this even better. McCoy and Spock would argue about logic, morality, and doing what is right; these arguments were great because they always ended up pissing McCoy off! Remember in "Wrath of Khan" when McCoy gets mad over the Genesis device and Spock thinks it's cool? Or Kirk and Spock discussing anything; it was great...the characters were strong and cohesive. You could tell they really liked each other and enjoyed their jobs.

Stargate does this to a higher level. When Carter is going off on some long-winded scientific explanation, you just know that when the camera pans over to Jack, he's going to be making that bored "cut to the chase" face, and then he'll say it: "Carter, get to the bottom line!" You can see how they actually love each other. For the most part, none of them has a real cohesive family, so they have become each other's family. Jack and Daniel often disagree about what the right thing to do is, but in the end, they always respect the other's opinion. Tea'lc has grown to admire and respect the Tau'ri and now feels at home on Earth among those who have trusted him and adopted him as a member of their family.

The characters, the dialog, the writing, and the effects...everything works. Stargate is the best sci-fi show around. It surpasses Star Trek anyday. Hands down.

Ugly Pig
August 29th, 2004, 01:23 PM
It's going to seem even more low budget now that the SciFi channel is in charge.
"Going to"? This is the third year since the show moved to SciFi and people are still afraid that it will cheapen the show?

And FYI - SciFi is not "in charge" of the show. They buy it from MGM and show it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the supporting off - screen staff are different.
Okay. You're wrong. :p

Ancient 1
August 29th, 2004, 01:29 PM
"Going to"? This is the third year since the show moved to SciFi and people are still afraid that it will cheapen the show?

And FYI - SciFi is not "in charge" of the show. They buy it from MGM and show it.

Okay. You're wrong. :p
Old SNL joke paraphrased here:

UgPig...taken it to the Czekalskinator....and makin' copies.