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PG15
June 7th, 2009, 09:26 PM
Writer: Barbara (last name unknown), produced by Brad Wright
Director: Peter Deluise

---

And finally, the last title released today: Lost Sabotage. Past info:


Let’s see…Brad will eventually shift gears to rescue that story in limbo,

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/05/31/may-30-2009-hey-what-year-is-it/


Today, we set aside an hour to talk stories – specifically, the back half of SGU’s first season. Okay, okay. I think that, this time, I’ve got it right. […] #16 is another freelancer script and, after much discussion, we’ve finally hammered out a structure for the story. […]

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/06/03/june-3-2009-scrappy-dogs-okay-i-think-i-got-it-right-this-time-well-done-mr-goldsmith-cookie-monsters-good-turn-the-donutella-and-wtf-is-ha-ha-hee-hee-ha-ha-ho/


Hey, everybody! It’s time to play “Guess the Upcoming Episode Names!”

[…]

Episode #16 shares a title with a song by Coldplay.

Another round of clues tomorrow. In the meantime, knock yourselves out.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/06/04/june-4-2009-new-episode-titles-ish-its-party-time-what-does-the-future-hold-a-comic-book-series-perhaps/


Okay, it’s time for round two of “Guess the Episode Title”. Further hints to the titles of episode #14, #15, and #16:

One shares the name of a movie directed by Alfred Hitchcock.

Another shares the name of a television series.

Another shares the name of a software package.

---

PG15 writes: “1. Is episode 16 the “story in limbo” you talked about on May 30th? And is it written by yet another freelancer, different from those who wrote #13 and #14? […]”

Answers: 1. The “limbo” story is now #16. It will be written by a freelancer. […]


http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/06/06/june-6-2009-playing-catch-up-with-the-mailbag/


Oh, hey, we have a winner! Congratulations to Madwelshboy who correctly guessed the three upcoming titles: Lucid, Lost, and Sabotage. The episode numbers and titles are subject to change, so nobody get too attached. Meanwhile, Madwelshboy, I knight thee Sir Mizo, Guesser of Titles!



http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/june-7-2009-i-approach-schnitzel-brink-foie-gras-protesters-sell-more-foie-gras-patrick-gilmore-and-mark-burgess-check-out-the-new-script-madwelshboy-gets-knighted-and-the-mailbag/

Phew. Ok, I'm gonna go take a nap from all this hardwork!

Madwelshboy
June 8th, 2009, 12:46 AM
Oh, hey, we have a winner! Congratulations to Madwelshboy who correctly guessed the three upcoming titles: Lucid, Lost, and Sabotage. The episode numbers and titles are subject to change, so nobody get too attached. Meanwhile, Madwelshboy, I knight thee Sir Mizo, Guesser of Titles!


http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...h-the-mailbag/

Congratulations! Sir Mizo!

Woop Wopp! Go Me! Go Me!! :D

As for the episode, the crew deal with being lost? they lose some crew members??

:jack_new_anime07:4000th post!!:jack_new_anime07:

reddevil18
June 8th, 2009, 03:55 AM
I'm very excited for these freelance scripts...
They need some new blood, with fresh ideas.

major davis
June 8th, 2009, 07:17 AM
Woop Wopp! Go Me! Go Me!! :D

As for the episode, the crew deal with being lost? they lose some crew members??

:jack_new_anime07:4000th post!!:jack_new_anime07:


Well they've been lost for 16 episodes so mabye someone important gets lost or like half of the crew gets lost.

Anyone agree?

Drizzt Do'Urden
June 8th, 2009, 08:36 AM
"LOST" hmmm... maybe the ship breaks in half and crashes on an island where they find a hatch and have flashbacks and fight some "others"... just saying....

jelgate
June 8th, 2009, 08:40 AM
"LOST" hmmm... maybe the ship breaks in half and crashes on an island where they find a hatch and have flashbacks and fight some "others"... just saying....

You hear that? That is me turning off my TV:P

Wib
June 8th, 2009, 10:13 AM
"LOST" hmmm... maybe the ship breaks in half and crashes on an island where they find a hatch and have flashbacks and fight some "others"... just saying....

:lol: Then they realise they've travelled through time as well.:p

prattmic
June 8th, 2009, 12:47 PM
I think it is going to be somewhat of an ironic episode. Some of the crew, probably whatever team usually goes out to explore gets lost on the planet, or they miss the window before Destiny jumps away, and they must find their way back "home." (It is ironic in the sense that they are lost in another galaxy to begin with.)

Jumper_One
July 29th, 2009, 06:02 PM
[...] - Twitter reports have Marty G. almost finished his second script, Episode #15, Lost. [...]
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/07/29/july-29-2009-my-culinary-odyssey-draws-ever-closer-episode-updates-the-hyrdoponics-lab/

PG15
July 29th, 2009, 06:03 PM
Oops.

Ok, I'll fix this (and Sabotage). Stand by.

PG15
July 30th, 2009, 09:02 PM
A mention:


I poked my head into Brad’s office today to give him the heads-up. He’s doing the pass on Sabotage but has planned to write Episode #17.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/july-30-2009-sukoshi-hanesamasu-demo-zenzen-wakarimasen-enter-the-caption-this-contest-to-win-uh-something-cool-episode-20-somewhere-between-longish-and-outrageously-so-the-sgu-crew/

PG15
August 6th, 2009, 10:43 PM
Update:


Meanwhile, I anxiously await Brad’s pass on Sabotage as that preps next week with the lovable Peter DeLuise at the directing helm.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/08/06/august-6-2009-back-in-the-office-pics-from-the-early-days-and-an-extra-chunky-mailbag/

Madwelshboy
August 9th, 2009, 12:09 PM
From Ming-Na's Twitter:


Just read "Sabotage." Wow. SGU is really challenging my acting chops! I LOVE our writers! Can't wait 2 work on this episode! xoxo
42 minutes ago from web

http://twitter.com/MsMingNa/status/3211192675

Madwelshboy
August 12th, 2009, 01:49 AM
NEW! August 10 - This episode includes a guest character named Eleanor Perry. The casting call has been posted at SpoilerTV:

[ELEANOR PERRY] (35-40) and quite attractive. A brilliant scientist who happens to be a quadriplegic. Affected since childhood, her disability has rendered her body physically useless. However, after being brought on board the Destiny as the only person who may be able to save the ship and her crew from certain annihilation, she is given temporary powers that enable her to walk again and to finally experience intimacy. Strong guest lead.

http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s1/116.shtml

PG15
August 12th, 2009, 10:04 PM
A mention:


While I’m waiting, I’ll shift focus to other producerly pursuits – like watching Rob Cooper’s dailies on Human and a Day 2(?) mix of Darkness (a terrific episode that offers all kinds of insight into our various players, big and small). Sitting in with us on the screening was the fab director himself, Peter DeLuise, who was in the office today prepping his next episode, Sabotage.

Three pics of Peter Deluise, in all of his...Deluise-ness:

http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/img_3984x.jpg
http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/img_3985x.jpg
http://josephmallozzi.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/img_3986x.jpg

From: http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/august-12-2009-done-and-done-but-not-really-the-return-of-peter-deluise-talking-eli-with-david-blue-jelly-checks-in-tries-to-check-out-but-gets-checked-up/

PG15
August 13th, 2009, 08:38 PM
A mention;



Brad has been prepping Sabotage,

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/august-13-2009-awaiting-word-michael-shanks-guests-actor-luis-ferreira-drops-by-the-office-and-carl-binder-in-set-trouble/

Madwelshboy
August 14th, 2009, 11:04 AM
From Syfy's Twitter:


Thanks to those of you who sent me a note about the casting call for the Stargate Universe episode Sabotage. Please see my next two tweets:
9 minutes ago from web

We're very sensitive to the issues raised by the description of the character Eleanor Perry.
7 minutes ago from web

We're working with the Stargate producers to address this & ensure that this character is handled sympathetically and responsibly.
7 minutes ago from web

http://twitter.com/Syfy

Brad Wright
August 14th, 2009, 01:06 PM
Recently, a casting breakdown was released to agents for a upcoming character in our television show, Stargate Universe. The character, Doctor Eleanor Perry, is a brilliant scientist at the top of her field, who also happens to be a quadriplegic. As part of a science fiction conceit that is core to our series, Perry's consciousness is temporarily exchanged with one our series main characters, Camile Wray, who is a lesbian. In the course of the story, Perry has the experience of being able bodied for the first time since she was a child. At the same time, Wray, temporarily encumbered by Perry's physical disability, experiences the unconditional love of her life partner. The language of the breakdown was insensitive and inaccurate, and we sincerely apologize to those who may have been offended. The audition pages that have been under scrutiny were from an early draft and released out of context. It is our desire and intention to portray both characters with dignity and respect, while remaining mindful of the ethical issues we're raising.

Brad Wright and Robert Cooper

Orion Antreas
August 14th, 2009, 01:19 PM
Recently, a casting breakdown was released to agents for a upcoming character in our television show, Stargate Universe. The character, Doctor Eleanor Perry, is a brilliant scientist at the top of her field, who also happens to be a quadriplegic. As part of a science fiction conceit that is core to our series, Perry's consciousness is temporarily exchanged with one our series main characters, Camile Wray, who is a lesbian. In the course of the story, Perry has the experience of being able bodied for the first time since she was a child. At the same time, Wray, temporarily encumbered by Perry's physical disability, experiences the unconditional love of her life partner. The language of the breakdown was insensitive and inaccurate, and we sincerely apologize to those who may have been offended. The audition pages that have been under scrutiny were from an early draft and released out of context. It is our desire and intention to portray both characters with dignity and respect, while remaining mindful of the ethical issues we're raising.

Brad Wright and Robert Cooper

Thank you Brad for the clarification. I was going to cautiously approach this episode because of the out of context content I read, but I can tell in your post that both you (as well as Robert) are truly sincere. Thank you again.

Madwelshboy
August 14th, 2009, 01:27 PM
Recently, a casting breakdown was released to agents for a upcoming character in our television show, Stargate Universe. The character, Doctor Eleanor Perry, is a brilliant scientist at the top of her field, who also happens to be a quadriplegic. As part of a science fiction conceit that is core to our series, Perry's consciousness is temporarily exchanged with one our series main characters, Camile Wray, who is a lesbian. In the course of the story, Perry has the experience of being able bodied for the first time since she was a child. At the same time, Wray, temporarily encumbered by Perry's physical disability, experiences the unconditional love of her life partner. The language of the breakdown was insensitive and inaccurate, and we sincerely apologize to those who may have been offended. The audition pages that have been under scrutiny were from an early draft and released out of context. It is our desire and intention to portray both characters with dignity and respect, while remaining mindful of the ethical issues we're raising.

Brad Wright and Robert Cooper

Thanks Brad! I can only echo what Orion Antreas has already said.

SGFerrit
August 14th, 2009, 01:39 PM
Recently, a casting breakdown was released to agents for a upcoming character in our television show, Stargate Universe. The character, Doctor Eleanor Perry, is a brilliant scientist at the top of her field, who also happens to be a quadriplegic. As part of a science fiction conceit that is core to our series, Perry's consciousness is temporarily exchanged with one our series main characters, Camile Wray, who is a lesbian. In the course of the story, Perry has the experience of being able bodied for the first time since she was a child. At the same time, Wray, temporarily encumbered by Perry's physical disability, experiences the unconditional love of her life partner. The language of the breakdown was insensitive and inaccurate, and we sincerely apologize to those who may have been offended. The audition pages that have been under scrutiny were from an early draft and released out of context. It is our desire and intention to portray both characters with dignity and respect, while remaining mindful of the ethical issues we're raising.

Brad Wright and Robert Cooper


Thanks Brad :)

And knowing that you and Rob are reading, I'd like to take this opportunity to say I'm very excited about SGU.

katikatnik
August 14th, 2009, 01:41 PM
Here via SyFy's Twitter. Ethical issues like rape? Having sex with somebody's body without their consent? I hope that it gets addressed. We didn't see it in SG-1 (when Hathor drugged Daniel and had sex with him) or in SGA (when Lucius drugged all his wives and had sex with them). In both cases, it was simply shrugged off. With Lucius, the writers even didn't see what was wrong with that, implying it was all a big haha episode, after all.

cherluvya
August 14th, 2009, 01:52 PM
Recently, a casting breakdown was released to agents for a upcoming character in our television show, Stargate Universe. The character, Doctor Eleanor Perry, is a brilliant scientist at the top of her field, who also happens to be a quadriplegic. As part of a science fiction conceit that is core to our series, Perry's consciousness is temporarily exchanged with one our series main characters, Camile Wray, who is a lesbian. In the course of the story, Perry has the experience of being able bodied for the first time since she was a child. At the same time, Wray, temporarily encumbered by Perry's physical disability, experiences the unconditional love of her life partner. The language of the breakdown was insensitive and inaccurate, and we sincerely apologize to those who may have been offended. The audition pages that have been under scrutiny were from an early draft and released out of context. It is our desire and intention to portray both characters with dignity and respect, while remaining mindful of the ethical issues we're raising.

Brad Wright and Robert Cooper

I feel so conflicted over this. I am truly hoping it's because I haven't seen the entire script. But what you have said above, doesn't change how I felt when I first read the casting spoiler. Love you guys and your work...I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here. I am such a fan..to me it doesn't feel like Stargate..but then you are the creators..I am "just" a fan.

sideburns
August 14th, 2009, 02:21 PM
At the same time, Wray, temporarily encumbered by Perry's physical disability, experiences the unconditional love of her life partner. The language of the breakdown was insensitive and inaccurate, and we sincerely apologize to those who may have been offended. The audition pages that have been under scrutiny were from an early draft and released out of context. It is our desire and intention to portray both characters with dignity and respect, while remaining mindful of the ethical issues we're raising.

Brad Wright and Robert Cooper

How I'd love to believe that you guys can deal with this with A) Dignity, B) Respect or C) mindful of the ethical issues, but I only have your past to go by. For instance: Would your handling of Perry's body-swapping be similar to how you dealt with...say...the rape of Daniel's character at the hands of Hathor? Or how about the dignity with which you handled the character of Lucius in SGA and his penchant for using the 'potion' to basically take women who normally would turn him down and get them to marry him and thus have sex with him (which, btw, was also rape)?

And how nice that the lesbian character will have the chance to discover her life partner loves her even though she's temporarily someone else - who just happens to be a paraplegic. Gosh, what a lightening bolt. Would it occur to you that such a thing actually does a disservice to the life-partner's character? Unless of course, she believes the change is permanent - which would beg the question: How could that be?

You've made it clear that the body-swapping machine will be used in the series to allow those on board ship to 'return to Earth' in order to be with their spouses (I can't WAIT to see how you explain THAT - probably with the use of your magic Science Fiction wand) so one would assume the swap will be agreed upon, in which case, top of the 'dignity and respect' list would be the understanding that the body swapped should be treated with respect - thus Eleanor having sex would be a no-no. After all, you didn't allow Teal'c to shave O'Neill's head, now did you? Of course not - because it was O'NEILL'S BODY. Hello?

But you'll do it anyway because you'll accomplish two things: 1: you think having sex for a paraplegic would top of her list of things to do and 2: your lesbian character will have sex with a man which you think will make the 'All Holy Demographic Audience' happy as little male, 18 to 49 (or has the age gone down to 39?) clams. *rolls eyes*

BTW: we won't even start on the whole "Calista Flockhart" thing or the kind of encouragement this delivers to actresses and their weight.

So yeah, you guys try to handle this with dignity and respect while dealing with the ethical issues.

This is me, scoffing.

spankys
August 14th, 2009, 02:56 PM
Brad,
I don't think "happens to be" means what you think it does. Eleanor doesn't "happen" be a quadrapalegic. You created her that way as the whole plot of the episode!

The only way to give the characters any dignity would be to scrap the whole episode.

BTW, having the episode directed by Peter Delouis, who made jokes about Norina's breasts during the commentary for Inferno, and kept talking about the Wraith's "handginas," doesn't give me a lot of confidence. He did know he was in public, right?

SGFerrit
August 14th, 2009, 03:04 PM
The only way to give the characters any dignity would be to scrap the whole episode.

^^ Please don't do this. It sounds like a very interesting episode.

Coronach
August 14th, 2009, 03:08 PM
Did that make you feel important?

I loled so hard at that avi. What was that from?

Also, I agree with SGFerrit. We should not be scrapping episodes just because they take risks and explore issues of compromised ethics.

Honestly, before we found out about this episode, people were already making threads about the morality of the long-range communication device. That, in and of itself, should tell you that this story is a pretty realistic telling...as we had already been speculating about the possible abuse of such technology.

PG15
August 14th, 2009, 03:13 PM
I loled so hard at that avi. What was that from?

Oh, the gif? Yeah, I had to get rid of it since it was waaaay too big of a file. Oh well.

The original came from a scene in The Wire, and I snatched the gif of it from some LJ place.

x Varda x
August 14th, 2009, 03:26 PM
@Sideburns/spankys - a little mean perhaps? Mr Wright very rarely comes by here and we treat it as a great honour when he takes the time to post. Moral stories are what makes sci-fi and all other genres/forms of media so fascinating. Without some controversy the entertainment business would probably stagnate

Wow! I'm definitely looking forward to this one :) I love moral debates. It will certainly be a tricky one to write though. I don't envy the writers and I wish them luck :D

Sweeneybird
August 14th, 2009, 03:33 PM
Recently, a casting breakdown was released to agents for a upcoming character in our television show, Stargate Universe. The character, Doctor Eleanor Perry, is a brilliant scientist at the top of her field, who also happens to be a quadriplegic. As part of a science fiction conceit that is core to our series, Perry's consciousness is temporarily exchanged with one our series main characters, Camile Wray, who is a lesbian. In the course of the story, Perry has the experience of being able bodied for the first time since she was a child. At the same time, Wray, temporarily encumbered by Perry's physical disability, experiences the unconditional love of her life partner. The language of the breakdown was insensitive and inaccurate, and we sincerely apologize to those who may have been offended. The audition pages that have been under scrutiny were from an early draft and released out of context. It is our desire and intention to portray both characters with dignity and respect, while remaining mindful of the ethical issues we're raising.

Brad Wright and Robert Cooper

Will 'remaining mindful of the ethical issues we're raising' include addressing the use of quadriplegia as a plot device and portraying the use of someone's body for sex without their consent as rape?

Coronach
August 14th, 2009, 03:38 PM
Will 'remaining mindful of the ethical issues we're raising' include addressing the use of quadriplegia as a plot device and portraying the use of someone's body for sex without their consent as rape?

Wait a second...including a quadriplegic is a bad thing? Given that they have written episodes up to this point that would bar a quadriplegic being on the Destiny already, how else do you propose they bring her on?

And, yes, that's the feeling that I got from his statement...that they will acknowledge such a thing as rape.

Man, TPTB get no breaks these days.

PG15
August 14th, 2009, 03:45 PM
Will 'remaining mindful of the ethical issues we're raising' include addressing the use of quadriplegia as a plot device and portraying the use of someone's body for sex without their consent as rape?

I've seen the "use quadriplegia as a plot device" criticism a lot.

I don't quite understand it.

In TV, everything's a plot device. They've used terminally-ill patients as plot devices (that guy in "Poisoning the Well"), they've used radiation-poisoned people as plot devices ("Coup d'Etat"), they've used blind people as plot devices (that guy at the end of SG1's "Prisoners"), they've used cancer patients as plot devices (Jacob Carter, Adrian Conrad), they've even used race as plot devices ("The Other Side"), so...what's the deal here?

Sweeneybird
August 14th, 2009, 03:50 PM
Wait a second...including a quadriplegic is a bad thing? Given that they have written episodes up to this point that would bar a quadriplegic being on the Destiny already, how else do you propose they bring her on?

And, yes, that's the feeling that I got from his statement...that they will acknowledge such a thing as rape.

Man, TPTB get no breaks these days.

I wasn't implying that including a quadriplegic is a bad thing, I was asking if making the character quadriplegic was an excuse for the sex scenes. I asked explicitly if they will acknowledge the sex while body-swapped as rape because it wasn't clear to me from the statement what was meant by addressing the issues.

Dr Weir
August 14th, 2009, 04:03 PM
Recently, a casting breakdown was released to agents for a upcoming character in our television show, Stargate Universe. The character, Doctor Eleanor Perry, is a brilliant scientist at the top of her field, who also happens to be a quadriplegic. As part of a science fiction conceit that is core to our series, Perry's consciousness is temporarily exchanged with one our series main characters, Camile Wray, who is a lesbian. In the course of the story, Perry has the experience of being able bodied for the first time since she was a child. At the same time, Wray, temporarily encumbered by Perry's physical disability, experiences the unconditional love of her life partner. The language of the breakdown was insensitive and inaccurate, and we sincerely apologize to those who may have been offended. The audition pages that have been under scrutiny were from an early draft and released out of context. It is our desire and intention to portray both characters with dignity and respect, while remaining mindful of the ethical issues we're raising.

Brad Wright and Robert Cooper
So there'll be no people forcing sex onto other people's bodies?

Coronach
August 14th, 2009, 04:11 PM
So there'll be no people forcing sex onto other people's bodies?

Perhaps. I'm not sure if it was ever confirmed that they go through with it, or if Eleanor comes to her senses...maybe people have just been assuming the worst?

Still, even if they do go through with it, it would still be a powerful story if handled properly, which Brad and Rob seem pretty determined on doing.

Sweeneybird
August 14th, 2009, 04:27 PM
I wonder how people would have reacted if the quadriplegic character was a gay man who swapped bodies with a straight man and then had sex with other men?

SGFerrit
August 14th, 2009, 04:29 PM
I wonder how people would have reacted if the quadriplegic character was a gay man who swapped bodies with a straight man and then had sex with other men?

That would have been even better. Show runners seem scared to even go there, because they know they'll get even more people complaining. I think they've got balls for going this far, but I'd have given them a round of applause for that.

brihana25
August 14th, 2009, 04:45 PM
That would have been even better. Show runners seem scared to even go there, because they know they'll get even more people complaining. I think they've got balls for going this far, but I'd have given them a round of applause for that.

They've got balls for raping a lesbian's body by loaning it to a straight woman, and you'd have applauded them raping a straight man's body by loaning it to a gay man?

Please tell me that you didn't mean that the way it sounds.

Naonak
August 14th, 2009, 04:55 PM
They've got balls for raping a lesbian's body by loaning it to a straight woman, and you'd have applauded them raping a straight man's body by loaning it to a gay man?

Please tell me that you didn't mean that the way it sounds.
Which is how, exactly?

Shan Bruce Lee
August 14th, 2009, 04:56 PM
They've got balls for raping a lesbian's body by loaning it to a straight woman, and you'd have applauded them raping a straight man's body by loaning it to a gay man?

Please tell me that you didn't mean that the way it sounds.

You mean the way it sounded, or the way you took it?

The thing you really have to understand is that the entire 42 minute episode isn't just gonna be this scene (and we still don't know what actually happens btw) You have to step back and look at the big picture and none of us know what that is right now.

All you're doing is jumping the gun.

sideburns
August 14th, 2009, 06:03 PM
@Sideburns/spankys - a little mean perhaps? Mr Wright very rarely comes by here and we treat it as a great honour when he takes the time to post. Moral stories are what makes sci-fi and all other genres/forms of media so fascinating. Without some controversy the entertainment business would probably stagnate

Wow! I'm definitely looking forward to this one :) I love moral debates. It will certainly be a tricky one to write though. I don't envy the writers and I wish them luck :D

Truth is truth, mean or not. And if you think there will really be a moral debate (that lasts longer than 3 minutes on screen) than you never watched the other two shows. And Mr. Wright is a big boy and I'm sure he can handle posts that do more than simply pat him on the back and tell him how wonderful he is.

Skydiver
August 14th, 2009, 06:08 PM
Just keep those posts respectful please :)

(word to everyone)

sideburns
August 14th, 2009, 06:12 PM
Wait a second...including a quadriplegic is a bad thing? Given that they have written episodes up to this point that would bar a quadriplegic being on the Destiny already, how else do you propose they bring her on?

And, yes, that's the feeling that I got from his statement...that they will acknowledge such a thing as rape.

Man, TPTB get no breaks these days.

Just one thing wrong with your statement: the quadriplegic DOESN'T get on board Destiny AS a quad. She's in Camile's body. If they wanted a quad on board, then Eleanor would have been a part of the cast originally. IMHO, the whole thing is simply to have the only gay character, a lesbian, have sex with men. They won't *deal* with it any more than they've dealt with any real moral issues on their two previous shows, unfortunately. History is a great teacher and leopards rarely change their spots.

Shan Bruce Lee
August 14th, 2009, 06:21 PM
Just one thing wrong with your statement: the quadriplegic DOESN'T get on board Destiny AS a quad. She's in Camile's body. If they wanted a quad on board, then Eleanor would have been a part of the cast originally. IMHO, the whole thing is simply to have the only gay character, a lesbian, have sex with men. They won't *deal* with it any more than they've dealt with any real moral issues on their two previous shows, unfortunately. History is a great teacher and leopards rarely change their spots.

That's not what he said. In fact, he said the exact opposite.

Dr Weir
August 14th, 2009, 06:29 PM
Why would there be a moral debate on a straight woman taking over a homosexual woman's body and using it to have sex with a man? This never happens in real life, so there's no point discussing it. Common sense tells you there'll be no moral debate. What do you think will happen? After the scene, everyone will sit down and debate it? :confused:

Anyway Brad Wright never said there'll a moral debate, it's pure assumption.

PG15
August 14th, 2009, 06:38 PM
Just one thing wrong with your statement: the quadriplegic DOESN'T get on board Destiny AS a quad. She's in Camile's body. If they wanted a quad on board, then Eleanor would have been a part of the cast originally. IMHO, the whole thing is simply to have the only gay character, a lesbian, have sex with men. They won't *deal* with it any more than they've dealt with any real moral issues on their two previous shows, unfortunately. History is a great teacher and leopards rarely change their spots.

History is also not infallible.

And what is this crap about having the lesbian have sex with men? That makes no sense whatsoever. The character of Wray is in another body.

I'm not sure what you think we're getting out of this. With Wray's mind somewhere else, and Wray's body occupied by a straight female, we're basically getting hetero sex. Big deal?

Shan Bruce Lee
August 14th, 2009, 06:44 PM
Why would there be a moral debate on a straight woman taking over a homosexual woman's body and using it to have sex with a man? This never happens in real life, so there's no point discussing it. Common sense tells you there'll be no moral debate. What do you think will happen? After the scene, everyone will sit down and debate it? :confused:

Anyway Brad Wright never said there'll a moral debate, it's pure assumption.

I don't know if anybody suggested they'll all sit around and talk about their feelings, but it was suggested (and highly likely) that it'll have some kind of repercussions/fallout.


It is our desire and intention to portray both characters with dignity and respect, while remaining mindful of the ethical issues we're raising.

Brad Wright and Robert Cooper

Dr Weir
August 14th, 2009, 06:45 PM
Wait a second...including a quadriplegic is a bad thing? Given that they have written episodes up to this point that would bar a quadriplegic being on the Destiny already, how else do you propose they bring her on?

Using a ramp (either attached to the ship or a stargate). I think there is supposed to be a stargate on the ship. They already used ramps on stargates to transport cargo and devices.

Shan Bruce Lee
August 14th, 2009, 06:48 PM
History is also not infallible.

And what is this crap about having the lesbian have sex with men? That makes no sense whatsoever. The character of Wray is in another body.

I'm not sure what you think we're getting out of this. With Wray's mind somewhere else, and Wray's body occupied by a straight female, we're basically getting hetero sex. Big deal?

I think most of that comes from the afterellen.com article. The writer was confused about the "body-swapping" concept in the original article and follow-up.

Shan Bruce Lee
August 14th, 2009, 06:53 PM
Using a ramp (either attached to the ship or a stargate). I think there is supposed to be a stargate on the ship. They already used ramps on stargates to transport cargo and devices.

Just to clarify... the character in question wasn't originally part of the Icarus Base survivors who end up on the Destiny. She's not in any of the previous 15 episodes and when she turns up in Sabotage they use the body-swapping device to get her onto the Destiny. I think that's what he's talking about. Not the literal accessability issues.

PG15
August 14th, 2009, 06:56 PM
Yeah, they just posted another article:

http://www.afterellen.com/blog/sarahwarn/stargate-universe-responds-to-controversy

^MAJOR Spoilers for more than just this episode!

So...there's a TV/movie trend of lesbians having sex with males? Why do I never catch these things?

Shan Bruce Lee
August 14th, 2009, 08:19 PM
Yeah, they just posted another article:

http://www.afterellen.com/blog/sarahwarn/stargate-universe-responds-to-controversy

^MAJOR Spoilers for more than just this episode!

So...there's a TV/movie trend of lesbians having sex with males? Why do I never catch these things?

No idea. She might mean lesbian actresses playing straight characters?

I definitely think the writer is confusing the actress with the character and doesn't fully understand the "body-swapping" concept when she's talking about SGU.

katikatnik
August 15th, 2009, 12:12 AM
I'm not sure what you think we're getting out of this. With Wray's mind somewhere else, and Wray's body occupied by a straight female, we're basically getting hetero sex. Big deal?

Big deal? For what we know, Wray never had sex with a man that means that she could still be a virgin in the heterosexual sense. Does that mean that occupying a lesbian's body and making it possibly lose its virginity is no big deal? It's only assumption but a possible one considering Wray is lesbian, another thing that should be but won't be addressed.

This isn't all swoops, different souls equals different people bodies included. Wray will have to carry the consequences of Eleanor's doing, feeling the aftereffects of having sex with someone you would never ever sleep with included. And what of sexual diseases and a possible pregnancy? Just thinking of waking up realizing that someone had sex with my body knowing that if it was me I would never have slept with them turns my stomach.

Look at it from your point - you switch bodies with a gay man and return to your body finding out that the man went all the way with another man. And then tell me if it's no big deal. Pft, just a little gay sex for a straight man's body, no big deal :(

ETA: From the article above: "he told me sex between bodies (i.e. body swapping) is introduced early in the series, and is an ongoing moral dilemma on the show with serious moral consequences, and this event is no different." OMG, are they serious? So they'll basically what? Borrow someone else's body to get their rocks off on regular basis? So date-raping is now a "moral dilemma"? I think I will be sick.

PG15
August 15th, 2009, 12:44 AM
Big deal? For what we know, Wray never had sex with a man that means that she could still be a virgin in the heterosexual sense. Does that mean that occupying a lesbian's body and making it possibly lose its virginity is no big deal? It's only assumption but a possible one considering Wray is lesbian, another thing that should be but won't be addressed.

That's not what my quote was responding to. The original poster said that it was TPTB's goal to have the lesbian have sex with men; I don't know why that is a goal at all; I don't understand why TPTB would want that or how that would get them more viewers.

But you raise a good point. Is this the attraction? That somehow the virginity of the lesbian is somehow attractive, and that's why it's apparently "cool" to have the lesbian have sex with men?

This is a very disturbing world I'm entering.


This isn't all swoops, different souls equals different people bodies included. Wray will have to carry the consequences of Eleanor's doing, feeling the aftereffects of having sex with someone you would never ever sleep with included. And what of sexual diseases and a possible pregnancy? Just thinking of waking up realizing that someone had sex with my body knowing that if it was me I would never have slept with them turns my stomach.

Look at it from your point - you switch bodies with a gay man and return to your body finding out that the man went all the way with another man. And then tell me if it's no big deal. Pft, just a little gay sex for a straight man's body, no big deal :(

Why do people keep thinking that TPTB or those of us not hating on this think that this is not a big deal? Of course it's a big deal! It's a huge violation of Wray's body and trust; we get that.

But we also get that this is television. Terrible things happen in order to create tension and drama, and sometimes those things are beyond terrible to the point of disturbing and disgusting. If you can't stomach it, then so be it. Then again, I can't stomach horror movies, but I won't stop them from being made or anything like that.

Shan Bruce Lee
August 15th, 2009, 12:52 AM
Big deal? For what we know, Wray never had sex with a man that means that she could still be a virgin in the heterosexual sense. Does that mean that occupying a lesbian's body and making it possibly lose its virginity is no big deal? It's only assumption but a possible one considering Wray is lesbian, another thing that should be but won't be addressed.

Well according to the article you quoted in the very same post--


ETA: From the article above: "he told me sex between bodies (i.e. body swapping) is introduced early in the series, and is an ongoing moral dilemma on the show with serious moral consequences, and this event is no different." OMG, are they serious? So they'll basically what? Borrow someone else's body to get their rocks off on regular basis? So date-raping is now a "moral dilemma"? I think I will be sick.

--it will be addressed.

Shan Bruce Lee
August 15th, 2009, 12:55 AM
Why do people keep thinking that TPTB or those of us not hating on this think that this is not a big deal? Of course it's a big deal! It's a huge violation of Wray's body and trust; we get that.

But we also get that this is television. Terrible things happen in order to create tension and drama, and sometimes those things are beyond terrible to the point of disturbing and disgusting. If you can't stomach it, then so be it. Then again, I can't stomach horror movies, but I won't stop them from being made or anything like that.

So we're back to the slightly less controversial tuna vs PB & J episode... Maybe they'll throw us a curve ball and bring up BLTs!

katikatnik
August 15th, 2009, 01:01 AM
--it will be addressed.

It will be addressed as a "moral issue" with "moral consequences". Rape is not a "moral issue", rape is a crime! Be it rohypnol or body-swap, using the body of someone who never consented to sex is a crime and it should be regarded as crime, not some grey moral area. And it won't be used once, but repeatedly - at least twice, early on and then with Camille - despite it being a "moral dilemma"! This "moral dilemma" won't hinder them in doing it again and again. Not much of a dilemma then.

PG15
August 15th, 2009, 01:06 AM
You know, I won't trust that quote word-for-word like that, since it's a paraphrase by the author of the article of what the studio representative said.

Suffice it to say, the whole bodyswapping thing and what you can do with it is indeed a moral issue. If you use it to have sex in the body of another person without their consent, then it becomes a crime.

Promethius30
August 15th, 2009, 03:19 AM
Truth is truth, mean or not. And if you think there will really be a moral debate (that lasts longer than 3 minutes on screen) than you never watched the other two shows. And Mr. Wright is a big boy and I'm sure he can handle posts that do more than simply pat him on the back and tell him how wonderful he is.

Not sure you have noticed but this is a 3rd show which correct me if i am wrong is supposed to be different. Talk about jumping the gun:mckay:

Shan Bruce Lee
August 15th, 2009, 04:05 AM
It will be addressed as a "moral issue" with "moral consequences". Rape is not a "moral issue", rape is a crime! Be it rohypnol or body-swap, using the body of someone who never consented to sex is a crime and it should be regarded as crime, not some grey moral area. And it won't be used once, but repeatedly - at least twice, early on and then with Camille - despite it being a "moral dilemma"! This "moral dilemma" won't hinder them in doing it again and again. Not much of a dilemma then.

It's obvious you've already decided what's gonna happen and how the story-line will be resolved so it would be pointless to keep going.

katikatnik
August 15th, 2009, 04:18 AM
It's obvious you've already decided what's gonna happen and how the story-line will be resolved so it would be pointless to keep going.

No, I haven't decided. I just think that using someone else's body to have sex without their consent - not just in this episodes but also in previous - is a plain rape. And if Eleanor and Rush, if they go through with the sex, and any other character who does such an abhorent thing aren't put on trial and sentenced for rape, there are no appropriate consequences. Everything else is a slap on the wrist, not a real and appropriate acknowledgement of the crime committed.

I'm sure you read spoilers for other episodes - was anyone tried for or at least accused of rape on this show?

Shan Bruce Lee
August 15th, 2009, 04:30 AM
No, I haven't decided. I just think that using someone else's body to have sex without their consent - not just in this episodes but also in previous - is a plain rape. And if Eleanor and Rush, if they go through with the sex, and any other character who does such an abhorent thing aren't put on trial and sentenced for rape, there are no appropriate consequences. Everything else is a slap on the wrist, not a real and appropriate acknowledgement of the crime committed.

I'm sure you read spoilers for other episodes - was anyone tried for or at least accused of rape on this show?

Haven't decided? So you know for a fact that Rush knows who's who? You know there are no reprocussions? You know that every occurrence is done without consent given before-hand? And how exactly is any system of law operated by survivors stranded on a ship in the middle of a power struggle?

Apparently you have made up your mind already. But you jumped the gun.

katikatnik
August 15th, 2009, 04:39 AM
So you know for a fact that Rush knows who's who?

Considering the fact that Eli refuses Eleanor in Wray's body saying that the real Wray would never sleep with him...

major davis
August 15th, 2009, 11:35 AM
Thanks Brad! I can only echo what Orion Antreas has already said.

Same here.

major davis
August 15th, 2009, 11:45 AM
That would have been even better. Show runners seem scared to even go there, because they know they'll get even more people complaining. I think they've got balls for going this far, but I'd have given them a round of applause for that.

LOL its like the more morally inapropiate it is the "Better it gets". I mean to me there is more depth with Camille and Sharon becuase it seems Sharon loves Camille for who she is. Even though I totally disagree with homosexuality and think its wrong, I do think it is good that they love each other for who they are. IF it body swap then right to the bedroom scene, it loses any momentum. But it just seems like the more wrong and gross it gets the "better it get". Well sorry for the whining. Just I wouldn't want to see the two dudes doing it. Tackling the issue and the moral repurcussions would be interesting, just I don't want to see two dudes or two girls in bed all the time.

Shan Bruce Lee
August 15th, 2009, 03:24 PM
Considering the fact that Eli refuses Eleanor in Wray's body saying that the real Wray would never sleep with him...

That's a huge leap with no real evidence to suggest Rush knows anything.

Carterslave
August 15th, 2009, 04:55 PM
So let me get this -- pardon the pun -- straight: It's OK for SGU to have a lesbian couple *provided* that there's a whole galaxy or two separating them OR they can be in the same room if one of them is completely paralyzed? As much I'd hoped TPTB had outgrown their gay-panic tendencies, as someone said upthread, these particular leopards can't change their spots. Although BBC shows like "Torchwood" have long since moved past this kind of stuff, TPTB are still inhabiting that timewarp in which gay characters must either be chaste (SGU) or dead (season 5 of SGA).

I agree that the best place for this episode is the nearest trash can ... although I actually think PdL as director is a positive sign. After all, he did a sensitive job with "Rite of Passage" (aka "Cassandra Has Two Mommies") and gave the movie "Better than Chocolate" a shout-out during his commentary for "The Sentinel."

tinerin
August 15th, 2009, 05:18 PM
So let me get this -- pardon the pun -- straight: It's OK for SGU to have a lesbian couple *provided* that there's a whole galaxy or two separating them OR they can be in the same room if one of them is completely paralyzed?

Well if I've read all the spoilers right, this is actually the second time that the lesbian couple will "be in the same room" but the first time "one of them is completely paralyzed" when it happens. And that's just assuming there aren't any additional flashback scenes of the couple.

PG15
August 15th, 2009, 05:24 PM
So let me get this -- pardon the pun -- straight: It's OK for SGU to have a lesbian couple *provided* that there's a whole galaxy or two separating them OR they can be in the same room if one of them is completely paralyzed? As much I'd hoped TPTB had outgrown their gay-panic tendencies, as someone said upthread, these particular leopards can't change their spots. Although BBC shows like "Torchwood" have long since moved past this kind of stuff, TPTB are still inhabiting that timewarp in which gay characters must either be chaste (SGU) or dead (season 5 of SGA).

Well, this show is all about being separated from your loved ones and trying to survive on the other side of the Universe without their support. There's a heterosexual couple that ends up in the same pickle as well.

That said, there are spoilers that say...

...that Wray and her partner 1). share moments of intimacy and 2) have the most healthy relationship on the show.

prion
August 15th, 2009, 05:59 PM
Yeah, they just posted another article:

http://www.afterellen.com/blog/sarahwarn/stargate-universe-responds-to-controversy

^MAJOR Spoilers for more than just this episode!

So...there's a TV/movie trend of lesbians having sex with males? Why do I never catch these things?

You just need to watch enough tv to see yeah, it's not the first time.

prion
August 15th, 2009, 06:02 PM
ETA: From the article above: "he told me sex between bodies (i.e. body swapping) is introduced early in the series, and is an ongoing moral dilemma on the show with serious moral consequences, and this event is no different." OMG, are they serious? So they'll basically what? Borrow someone else's body to get their rocks off on regular basis? So date-raping is now a "moral dilemma"? I think I will be sick.

I showed this stuff to a friend who is a big science fiction fan, watched the stargates but isn't following SGu - she just watches the shows. Anyway, when I told her the body-swapping stuff, she said that houses - not bodies - are for timesharing. ;)

PG15
August 15th, 2009, 08:09 PM
Joe Mallozzi weighs in on this issue:


Today, I’d like to address the online controversy surrounding SGU’s late season episode Sabotage and, specifically, the concern stemming from the released character breakdown and casting sides as they relate to the character of Eleanor Perry.

Let me begin by saying that it’s understandable why so many people are upset. That said, I can assure you that the material being cited does a poor job of reflecting the character or story developments as they will appear in the episode – as will become readily apparent once Sabotage finally airs.

First, there’s the issue of the character breakdown. Now, last year, we tried to address the problem of these breakdowns finding their way out into public forums. The main issue for us arose from the fact that these externally generated summaries were occasionally inaccurate or implied elements that weren’t actually in the script. An example that comes to mind is the online reaction to the all-female team in Atlantis season 4’s Whispers. When those character breakdowns were released, unfairly or not, the general consensus was that we were looking to cast some stereotypical damsels in distress, hapless and hysterical victims for our dashing heroes to save. After the episode finally aired, while fans may have had issues with other aspects of the episode (which, being fans, they often will), the initial concerns stirred by those character breakdowns turned out to be a non-issue. We took steps to avoid the same thing happening again by generating the character breakdowns internally. In theory, it was a great idea since it would allow us to sign off on them in case they did end up getting out there. In practice however…Well, I’m not sure what happened but suffice it to say we dropped the ball. And the result? I think you’d be hard-pressed to find a better example of a worst case scenario. Still, if nothing else, this incident has served as a wake up call. I can guarantee you that, in the future, any and all material will be vetted before leaving our offices.


Second, as Brad and Robert already pointed out in their response, this was an early draft of the script. Negative reactions to some of the cited in-story developments are not at all surprising given that, quite frankly, it happens all the time internally. But how, you may ask, can it be an early draft of the script if it says Final Draft? Well, simply put, just because it says Final don’t mean it’s Final. I direct you to a March of 2008 blog entry I wrote titled, appropriately enough “ THE ULTIMATE EXTREME EXTRA SUPERFANTASTIC BEST LUCKY ULTRA NUMBER ONE FINAL FINAL DRAFT” (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/march-10-2008/). I hadn’t even read a draft and provided notes until the beginning of this week. Other players, from the director to the various departments to the network had still to weigh in with their thoughts. From the day it is released to the final shooting version, the script will go through many changes as evidenced by all those lovely multi-colored pages. Again I can assure you that, like the character breakdowns, the audition sides do not accurately reflect the finished script.

Third, I can also assure you that the character of Eleanor Perry will not be portrayed as some sex-starved individual looking to bed down anyone in sight. She’s been in a wheelchair most of her life, not in a hermetically-sealed isolation chamber, so it would stand to reason that her disability would not preclude intimacy. Furthermore, the characters of Eleanor Perry and Nicholas Rush have a pre-established friendship and professional relationship that leads Rush to recommend her for the task of addressing a ship-related issue. This past association, built on understanding and mutual respect, is the seed for any potential affection in this story, not biological drive or missed opportunity.

Fourth, and finally, I’d like to address the issue concerning the character of Camile Wray, the franchise’s first openly gay character. Months ago, while we were gearing up for the start of production, I put forth Wray as one of my favorites. She’s a fish out of water, an administrator on board a space ship, a civilian amongst scientists and military personnel, stalwart, smart, opinionated, but at her core a caring and surprisingly vulnerable individual. One of the season’s highlights so far has been the episode Life in which Wray gets to return to Earth (via the body swap conceit of the communication stones) and be reunited with her wife, Sharon. The scenes are beautifully written and beautifully directed, but it’s the performances of both Ming Na and Reiko Aylesworth that really strike a cord. Their stable, grounded relationship is as much in contrast to the show’s other dysfunctional relationships as it is to Wray’s austere, lonely existence on the ship – making her eventual return that much more poignant. All this to say that we’ve worked hard to present a compelling, believable, multi-layered character – a major player in the shipboard dynamics and intrigue – and we are not about to do anything that will undermine or disrespect her. I’d love to say more, but at the risk of giving away any spoilers…

Yes, we’re aware of the issues and extremely sensitive to all of your concerns. Suffice it to say that once Sabotage has aired, many of those eyeing this episode with certain trepidation will no doubt breathe a sigh of relief – and, here’s hoping, also enjoy the show as well.

---

Multisemi writes: “1. People with disabilities can and do have “intimacy.” They even kiss other people.

2. If someone is “intimate” with my body while I am asleep or otherwise not in conscious control of it and I have not previously given explicit permission for that act, it is rape.”

Answers: 1. Agree. 2. Also agree.



http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/08/15/august-15-2009-addressing-the-issues-and-a-robust-mailbag/

sideburns
August 17th, 2009, 03:33 PM
Not sure you have noticed but this is a 3rd show which correct me if i am wrong is supposed to be different. Talk about jumping the gun:mckay:

Obviously I've noticed since I said "...two other shows...." and you might remember that Stargate Atlantis was also supposed to be different. You know - group goes through gate, gets stuck on other side - can't get home - yadda yadda. So what's different here other than the fact that they end up on a ship that can't get home? Would that be like - oh, say, Star Trek-Voyager different? But wait, they have a gate on board, so can travel to planets - gosh, just like Atlantis (which, btw, could fly and thus become a ship as well). Is it going to be darker, edgier? I'd say yes. At least - so it appears from all the clips. But the history of these guys doesn't mean that 'darker/edgier' = 'different' let alone better.

And by now, I suspect the writers have already changed the script. For instance, if Eleanor ends up having sex with Rush in Camile's body - it will be with Camile's permission (now there's a scene I'd love to see at the hands of these oh, so sensitive guys) so the rape issue goes out the door and thus will make everyone happy little campers. *rolls eyes*

Sorry if I seem less than enthusiastic - but unless the Boys at Bridge have changed considerably - well, 'nuff said.

sideburns
August 17th, 2009, 03:45 PM
That's a huge leap with no real evidence to suggest Rush knows anything.

It's a huge leap to assume Rush would be so stupid as to not know. And if he doesn't - that opens an even worse can of worms and makes Eleanor's character thoroughly deplorable and abhorrent.

Besides - I'm betting the writers have already 'fixed' the rape concept by having Camile give Eleanor permission to experience sex. (Which again, plays into the whole 'disabled' person just dying to have 'real' sex now that they can 'walk' - even if it's in another person's body!) Obviously this 42 minute episode is going to be packed to the gills.

First, we have an issue with the ship that they believe can best be fixed/handled by Eleanor, so they use the 'whatever it is' to swap her mind with someone else's on board - and gosh, it's the one lesbian. So Eleanor and Camile switch (Camile being happy to do so, no doubt, since that allows her to be with her 'wife' for however briefly - and please note, Camile obviously doesn't have sex on the brain because she's willing to go into a quad's body) and Eleanor sets about fixing the ship - while at the same time, deciding, "Oh, my, what a perfect time to dump my virginity" and approaching one ship member - who wisely says no because it's "Wray's body" - so then Eleanor goes to Rush (someone she knows and had a relationship with - obviously business relationship if they're going to stick with the virgin stuff) who is 'talked' into agreeing. And if we're going to avoid the whole rape principle, then at some point, a conversation must occur between Eleanor and Camile - and at the same time, we'll hope Rush is aware of the conversation. All in 42 short minute. WOW.

OTOH - all of the above would most certainly take away the dark edginess of the show, let alone the episode. *g*

tinerin
August 17th, 2009, 04:51 PM
First, we have an issue with the ship that they believe can best be fixed/handled by Eleanor, so they use the 'whatever it is' to swap her mind with someone else's on board - and gosh, it's the one lesbian.

Episode Title: Sabotage
Camile Wray's Job Title: Human Resources Executive for the IOA

See a possible connection there?


Eleanor sets about fixing the ship - while at the same time, deciding, "Oh, my, what a perfect time to dump my virginity" and approaching one ship member

How do you know it's at the same time? Maybe it happens after the ship is fixed?

Cautious Explorer
August 17th, 2009, 05:14 PM
Episode Title: Sabotage
Camile Wray's Job Title: Human Resources Executive for the IOA

See a possible connection there?


If Eleanor is the one necessary to fix the problem, that pretty much makes everyone else expendable. Why is it so important for Eleanor to borrow Camile's body?


How do you know it's at the same time? Maybe it happens after the ship is fixed?
Sure. As a reward for a job well done. :rolleyes:

tinerin
August 17th, 2009, 05:26 PM
If Eleanor is the one necessary to fix the problem, that pretty much makes everyone else expendable. Why is it so important for Eleanor to borrow Camile's body?

Eleanor is the one who is needed to fix the damage to the ship. Who do you think is responsible for finding out who sabotaged the ship in the first place?


Sure. As a reward for a job well done. :rolleyes:

Well I was just addressing the fact that everyone who is against this episode is assuming that she's being portrayed as some sex starved nympho who is willing to hold off saving the ship to get laid when we have no idea what the actual sequence of events are since none of us have seen the script.

Cautious Explorer
August 17th, 2009, 05:38 PM
Eleanor is the one who is needed to fix the damage to the ship. Who do you think is responsible for finding out who sabotaged the ship in the first place?
Yes, Eleanor's mind is necessary. But why must it be Camile's body she borrows? Couldn't she just as easily borrow someone else's body? Do they really need a random marine or a Senator's daughter to assist Eleanor? What is it about Camile that makes it extra fun to play with her body?

Shan Bruce Lee
August 17th, 2009, 05:45 PM
Yes, Eleanor's mind is necessary. But why must it be Camile's body she borrows? Couldn't she just as easily borrow someone else's body? Do they really need a random marine or a Senator's daughter to assist Eleanor? What is it about Camile that makes it extra fun to play with her body?

There's really nothing to indicate it has to be Wray. It just happens to be her. It makes more sense to use one of the main characters than bringing in someone we've never really seen around the ship to switch bodies and then disappear and never be seen or heard from again.

tinerin
August 17th, 2009, 05:47 PM
Yes, Eleanor's mind is necessary. But why must it be Camile's body she borrows? Couldn't she just as easily borrow someone else's body? Do they really need a random marine or a Senator's daughter to assist Eleanor? What is it about Camile that makes it extra fun to play with her body?

I was thinking that they need Camile on Earth to go through personnel records to try to find out who would have a reason to sabotage the ship. If the device has a limited power source they might not want unnessecary body swaps so just swap Eleanor and Camile.

PG15
August 17th, 2009, 09:35 PM
Update:


The final half-dozen scripts are in play and we’ve been busy writing, revising, reading, and critiquing. [...] Brad did his pass on Sabotage and, Carl and I agree, it’s a much better script.

---

Enviropony writes: “Yes, and it contained the *exact* same line that upset so many of us in the first place: “…happens to be quadriplegic.”

and

Arctic Goddess writes: “One personal comment, however. When writing the way that a person with a disability is described, remember that the person with a disability is a person first. “

Answer: Which is, I believe, why the statement was worded the way it was. It was intended to make this very point.



http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/08/17/august-17-2009-air-iii-day-2-mix-all-scripts-in-play-the-destiny-mess-mailbag/

sideburns
August 18th, 2009, 12:37 PM
Episode Title: Sabotage
Camile Wray's Job Title: Human Resources Executive for the IOA

See a possible connection there?



How do you know it's at the same time? Maybe it happens after the ship is fixed?

No, I don't see a connection. The HRE for the IOA would hardly be required on Earth while Eleanor is 'fixing' the sabotaged ship - unless Camile is a superwoman in the HR department with detective skills that even Sherlock Holmes would envy. Are we supposed to swallow the idea that only SHE can figure out who did the dirty deed by going back to Earth to do what? Read their folders? Yeah, like she's the ONLY person in the whole wide SGC - on Earth or elsewhere - who could figure out the saboteur? Please. *rolls eyes* That's lazy writing and an excuse to ensure that it is the lone lesbian who has to switch bodies.

And come on, *g* by 'at the same time' I mean at the same time she's given a body that can walk etc. I don't really care if it happens before, during or after she fixes the ship! It still does her and her character a great disservice.

sideburns
August 18th, 2009, 12:45 PM
Eleanor is the one who is needed to fix the damage to the ship. Who do you think is responsible for finding out who sabotaged the ship in the first place?



Well I was just addressing the fact that everyone who is against this episode is assuming that she's being portrayed as some sex starved nympho who is willing to hold off saving the ship to get laid when we have no idea what the actual sequence of events are since none of us have seen the script.

And you've decided it should be Camile - why? Because she's HR? I would have thought the person in charge would be responsible for figuring out who did it.

If you really think about it - the ability to swap minds with people on Earth is the laziest thing the writers could have come up with. If they run into a problem they don't have the time to write themselves out of - they just swap minds with someone back on Earth who can do it for them. At the same time, they get to add this titillating idea of loved ones having intimacy with their trapped SO's but in someone else's body. In other words: Adultery that is, but isn't. Oh, goody. Every man's (meaning their demographics) dream.

Why not really leave the Destiny out there, completely on its own? NO ties with Earth whatsoever? Now that would be dark and edgy. Of course, they couldn't do it with Atlantis - too doggone boring and difficult for the writers.

Tal-Galahad
August 18th, 2009, 02:01 PM
Honestly...I don`t get all the snarking.

This situation everyone is talking about is strict fiction without any possible relation to real world events. Something like this could simply never happen, only in a tv series on a scifi channel...

And I would eben argue, that this could be categorized as rape...honestly people if I think of rape, I picture something totally different from this.

I can only agree with Darrens editorial and I`m really looking forward to this episode...finally somethin you really havent seen in scifi yet.

Carterslave
August 18th, 2009, 09:40 PM
Joe M.'s passing reference to Sharon as Camille's "wife" is interesting, or perhaps merely careless. Like it or not, gay marriage is a fact of life in many American states (Iowa, most recently), so SGU would only be keeping up with the times if it were to reflect that in its scripts. Then again, SG doesn't do "contemporary relevance" all that well (see: "B'Ori, The").

PG15
August 18th, 2009, 10:24 PM
Update:


Cyn writes: “Deny it all you want, but when a woman’s body is used for intercourse without her consent it is rape. There is no ambiguity.”

Answer: Given that you are posting your opinions on my site, I’d appreciate it if you’d do me the courtesy of at least reading what I’ve had to say on the subject before putting words in my mouth or making assumptions about my attitude. I’ve already addressed this scenario and my opinion is, in fact, the opposite of the one you’ve bestowed upon me.


Cyn also writes: “You can defend all of this to your heart’s content. You can laugh it off and say I’m being overdramatic…”

Answer: I have neither laughed off the criticism nor have I derided the critics. I have no idea who you’re responding to here but it’s certainly not me.


AnneTeldy writes: “Have I missed something? Where in the sides, the apology, or Mr. M’s blog entry/comments does it say Rush actually has sex with Perry/Camile? Everyone seems to be assuming he will.”

Answer: True.


Pol writes: “I’m very familiar with how the sides don’t often come close to the final script, but as a woman writer (and a lesbian at that) I can see how the tone of those sides can look to the rest of the world – and how they – at first blush – didn’t even raise an eyebrow with your mostly all-male team when they were released.”

Answer: We were on hiatus for almost the entire month of July. Many of us didn’t read Sabotage or provide notes until the beginning of last week. I can assure you, there was some very spirited debate about this script and the issues raised.


Dovil writes: “If you look at the forums on Gateworld, your viewers, you’ll see that attitude alive and well. But it has been very enlightening having a group of mainly men telling a group of mainly women the definition of what rape is and isn’t, how there are shades of rape (tell that to the victim), how we’re over-reacting, and that rape should legitmately be served up as entertainment for a show that aims itself at a male audience.”

Answer: Actually, we have viewers on both sides of the issue. As for the group of mainly men telling the group of mainly women – who exactly are you referring to? Because, again, I can assure you that there are men on both sides of this issue.


http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/august-18-2009-my-top-20-films-of-the-past-17-years-and-still-with-the-freakin-mailbag/

sideburns
August 19th, 2009, 05:19 PM
Honestly...I don`t get all the snarking.

This situation everyone is talking about is strict fiction without any possible relation to real world events. Something like this could simply never happen, only in a tv series on a scifi channel...

And I would eben argue, that this could be categorized as rape...honestly people if I think of rape, I picture something totally different from this.

I can only agree with Darrens editorial and I`m really looking forward to this episode...finally somethin you really havent seen in scifi yet.

You're right - it's just fiction - a tv show - but tv is more often than not a reflection of human nature - even when it's scifi. In this day and age, even the lowest tv show can teach, show, demonstrate. They can have ramifications and I don't think anyone would disagree that television does have power. Look at what so many of us have learned in this discussion alone! So many people haven't truly understood how deeply such an episode as Sabotage can affect us. And btw? Rape can be many different things. It's not only a violent act that results in the physical violation of one person's body by another - that's why so many of us are upset.

And I'm afraid this has been done before (and/or variations on the theme) - badly - and by these same men in both Stargate SG1 and Stargate Atlantis. Let me count the ways:

SG1: The Goa'ulds are a very good example but because they were evil, it was constantly driven home how horrible it was to have NO control of your body. But when came to the good guys - no such message was ever given. Examples:

Hathor: Daniel (and yes, even Jack in a way) is raped. Daniel is raped physically and mentally while under the influence (does date rape ring a bell?), while Jack has a symbiote implanted without his permission. Both men were violated. Remember how it was dealt with? No? That's because it wasn't.

Holiday: Machello's famous body swapping machine (which I believe the whole idea for the body swapping on SGU came from) and please note that the writers didn't allow Teal'c to shave Jack's head while Teal'c inhabited Jack's body? For Machello's part, he had no trouble taking one man's body for his own and leaving Daniel's mind in Machello's broken and dying body, thus forcing Daniel to experience things he should never have to deal with - yet.

Avalon - Part 2 and the next episode, Origin: Daniel and Vala use the Ancient transporter and end up with their minds inside the bodies of two innocent people in an Ori controlled village. Remember how that ended? Their minds were swapped back just as the two innocents were burned to death. Remember any ramifications for that? Nope, me either. Because the writers never even bothered to allow SG1 to show any remorse or sympathy for the innocent couple.

SGA:

Duet: Cadman and Rodney share the same body - but when Rodney falls asleep - Cadman takes over without his permission. Everyone, Cadman included, think the whole thing is funny. She even uses Rodney's body to kiss the man she's attracted to. Yeah, that's a violation but not according to the writers - who again, thought it funny. And remember, once Rodney was back in control - he felt everything that had been done to his body. Do we really think that once the mind is reconnected to the body - it won't know what went on?

Irresistible: Remember Lucius who used a potion to make himself "Irresistible" and thus use that power to bed women who would normally not give him a second glance? Yeah, that was rape too - big time. But was there any edginess? Discussions of the moral and ethical ramifications? Not even once - instead, it was handled with humor - not complete outrage.

So you see, we do have history to show us that these producers/writers don't have a clue how to handle touchy subjects and, in fact, often consider them funny - if they consider them at all. So yes, I think we should complain when we see even the possibility of such a thing happening again and no, I don't think it's wrong based on history to distrust their ability to handle this 'delicately'. :(

Sorry. :(

Coronach
August 19th, 2009, 05:27 PM
So many people haven't truly understood how deeply such an episode as Sabotage can affect us. And btw? Rape can be many different things. It's not only a violent act that results in the physical violation of one person's body by another - that's why so many of us are upset.

Of course it can (and probably will) affect us on an emotion level, especially if the episode plays out exactly as the sides suggest. It may very well not, but nobody has been arguing that this is somehow not a big deal. Rape is a very big deal, and showing it in this context will elicit any number of emotional responses. This doesn't mean this material just shouldn't be shown though.

Also...my other post got deleted when I responded to you about something from your other post, but that bit is still there...so I'll ask again. In response to what you said here:


In other words: Adultery that is, but isn't. Oh, goody. Every man's (meaning their demographics) dream.

Why do you generalize and think that every man likes or condones adultery? Strange gender generalization coming from someone who is clearly against such thing...unless you're not?


So you see, we do have history to show us that these producers/writers don't have a clue how to handle touchy subjects and, in fact, often consider them funny - if they consider them at all. So yes, I think we should complain when we see even the possibility of such a thing happening again and no, I don't think it's wrong based on history to distrust their ability to handle this 'delicately'.

What about the fact that this episode is being written by a freelance script writer. And a woman at that?

Flibby
August 20th, 2009, 01:12 AM
Hey guys, let me pose a question to you?

Is rape or torture worse?

Torture can sometimes include rape, but even without, could be worse. Why no outcry when Teal'c gets tortured?
Does this not remind veterans who were tortured in captivity of their helplessness and pain?
Is that not the exact same idea as why you're all getting worked up about this?

I guess since rape is generalized as always happening to females, it's worse, since they're generalized as being frailer and unable to deal with it. (generalization, not my opinion)

Madwelshboy
August 20th, 2009, 02:28 AM
Hey guys, let me pose a question to you?

Is rape or torture worse?

Torture can sometimes include rape, but even without, could be worse. Why no outcry when Teal'c gets tortured?
Does this not remind veterans who were tortured in captivity of their helplessness and pain?
Is that not the exact same idea as why you're all getting worked up about this?

I guess since rape is generalized as always happening to females, it's worse, since they're generalized as being frailer and unable to deal with it. (generalization, not my opinion)

Its more associated with women as the victims, but its not exclusive to women.

prion
August 20th, 2009, 09:36 AM
You're right - it's just fiction - a tv show - but tv is more often than not a reflection of human nature - even when it's scifi. In this day and age, even the lowest tv show can teach, show, demonstrate. They can have ramifications and I don't think anyone would disagree that television does have power. Look at what so many of us have learned in this discussion alone! So many people haven't truly understood how deeply such an episode as Sabotage can affect us. And btw? Rape can be many different things. It's not only a violent act that results in the physical violation of one person's body by another - that's why so many of us are upset.

And I'm afraid this has been done before (and/or variations on the theme) - badly - and by these same men in both Stargate SG1 and Stargate Atlantis. Let me count the ways:

SG1: The Goa'ulds are a very good example but because they were evil, it was constantly driven home how horrible it was to have NO control of your body. But when came to the good guys - no such message was ever given. Examples:

Hathor: Daniel (and yes, even Jack in a way) is raped. Daniel is raped physically and mentally while under the influence (does date rape ring a bell?), while Jack has a symbiote implanted without his permission. Both men were violated. Remember how it was dealt with? No? That's because it wasn't.

Holiday: Machello's famous body swapping machine (which I believe the whole idea for the body swapping on SGU came from) and please note that the writers didn't allow Teal'c to shave Jack's head while Teal'c inhabited Jack's body? For Machello's part, he had no trouble taking one man's body for his own and leaving Daniel's mind in Machello's broken and dying body, thus forcing Daniel to experience things he should never have to deal with - yet.

Avalon - Part 2 and the next episode, Origin: Daniel and Vala use the Ancient transporter and end up with their minds inside the bodies of two innocent people in an Ori controlled village. Remember how that ended? Their minds were swapped back just as the two innocents were burned to death. Remember any ramifications for that? Nope, me either. Because the writers never even bothered to allow SG1 to show any remorse or sympathy for the innocent couple.

SGA:

Duet: Cadman and Rodney share the same body - but when Rodney falls asleep - Cadman takes over without his permission. Everyone, Cadman included, think the whole thing is funny. She even uses Rodney's body to kiss the man she's attracted to. Yeah, that's a violation but not according to the writers - who again, thought it funny. And remember, once Rodney was back in control - he felt everything that had been done to his body. Do we really think that once the mind is reconnected to the body - it won't know what went on?

Irresistible: Remember Lucius who used a potion to make himself "Irresistible" and thus use that power to bed women who would normally not give him a second glance? Yeah, that was rape too - big time. But was there any edginess? Discussions of the moral and ethical ramifications? Not even once - instead, it was handled with humor - not complete outrage.

So you see, we do have history to show us that these producers/writers don't have a clue how to handle touchy subjects and, in fact, often consider them funny - if they consider them at all. So yes, I think we should complain when we see even the possibility of such a thing happening again and no, I don't think it's wrong based on history to distrust their ability to handle this 'delicately'. :(

Sorry. :(

Just want to say, very good post, with very good points and examples. Yes, the thing that many of us are trying to point out is that TPTB do not have a good track record in handling these situations. Daniel had absolutely no fallout from what Hathor did to him. And Lucius? Eh, what SHOUDL have happened when his wives fell out of influence is strung him up.

Coronach
August 20th, 2009, 09:47 AM
Just want to say, very good post, with very good points and examples. Yes, the thing that many of us are trying to point out is that TPTB do not have a good track record in handling these situations.

Yet most of us understand this, and have understood it this entire time. And it'd be one thing if people were saying "I may not end up liking this storyline, because TPTB haven't done these types of things well in the past".

Instead, the majority of the comments (not yours...and not necessarily limited to GW) are strawmen about how those of us that aren't pre-judging it must condone rape, and how dare we bother to take a more fair and objective approach to such an issue being portrayed on-screen.

I'd also (still) make the argument that this episode has the potential to be handled well for a few reasons:

1) It's written by a freelance writer (hey...a woman at that). While you might be thinking that this doesn't matter because all episodes go through review with the other writers, I'd point out that the ultimate end-material is a rewrite by the original script writer.

2) The entire premise of SGU has been a stressing of how a lot of aspects are going to be quite different this time around. What makes you assume that a writer won't be able to better flourish in a serialized, darker format as opposed to a more episodic, lighter one? I think it's pretty safe to say that the issues we had in previous SG incarnations may be non-issues in SGU, given the complete overhaul in style.

Flibby
August 20th, 2009, 10:01 AM
I know the idea of Teal'c getting tortured worries you guys, but DON'T WORRY! He can take it since he's a man!

Shan Bruce Lee
August 20th, 2009, 10:53 AM
Just want to say, very good post, with very good points and examples. Yes, the thing that many of us are trying to point out is that TPTB do not have a good track record in handling these situations. Daniel had absolutely no fallout from what Hathor did to him. And Lucius? Eh, what SHOUDL have happened when his wives fell out of influence is strung him up.

Didn't Atlantis send him back to the planet so they could decide what to do with him?

sideburns
August 20th, 2009, 03:35 PM
Of course it can (and probably will) affect us on an emotion level, especially if the episode plays out exactly as the sides suggest. It may very well not, but nobody has been arguing that this is somehow not a big deal. Rape is a very big deal, and showing it in this context will elicit any number of emotional responses. This doesn't mean this material just shouldn't be shown though.

Also...my other post got deleted when I responded to you about something from your other post, but that bit is still there...so I'll ask again. In response to what you said here:



Why do you generalize and think that every man likes or condones adultery? Strange gender generalization coming from someone who is clearly against such thing...unless you're not?



What about the fact that this episode is being written by a freelance script writer. And a woman at that?

I did notice your reply was somehow erased. :( But I'm glad it's here now.

Okay, as to your first paragraph - I have to disagree with you. In fact, many people have been arguing that it's 'no big deal', that it's not rape, etc. etc. That's why some of us are still involved in this discussion - to make it clear that it does and will matter. That said, the other reason many of us are still involved is that we have no faith in the writers - based on their history - to deal with such a subject with both real dignity and respect. If I thought for one minute that such an episode could be told by TPTB with real skill, I'd be looking forward to it. But again, I have only their history to go by.

Was Daniel's rape handled well? Was Lucius' form of date rape handled well? Was Cadman's use of Rodney's body handled well? No. :(

As for the generalization of all men approving of adultery - that was not, by any means, my intent. However - I do believe a good portion of the audience these guys think they're writing for (the 18-39 year-old male demographics) will be titillated by the idea and even if they themselves would never enter into an adulterous relationship, many will still have fun with the idea presented by this device. I'd love to believe the writers had noble ideas when they thought this up - that they fully intend to examine it on the show, etc. but again, I only have 12+years, 2 shows (10 years for SG1 and 5 for SGA) and 2 movies worth of history to go by.

Now, as for the episode being written by a freelance writer and a female - well, A) my position doesn't change and B) having some idea of how this script writing works - the script she may have originally turned in could have been changed to what we're now complaining about - original scripts often bear no resemblance to what we see on the screen - they're usually jumping off points. I hesitate to add my suspicions about this 'freelance' writer, btw - but it sure is convenient. TPTB can blame this some wayward casting person who sent out the call and now on a 'woman' scriptwriter. And yeah, I admit I have some doubts. Between SG1 and SGA, there were 314 episodes (100 for SGA and 214 for SG1). Now, for SG1's 214 episodes, there were approximately 3 female writers: Katherine Powers who did something like 9 of the total episodes with story credit for a couple, Heather Ash, who did maybe 4, and Jackie Sumuda who shared credit with James Tichenor - BUT - I don't believe any of them wrote past season 6. Which means out of 214 episodes, a hot 13 or 14 were written or co-written by women.

SGA had a whopping 3 females: Treena Hancock & Melissa Byer who co-wrote "Instinct" and Holly Henderson who shared writing credit with Carl for "The Game". There was also Jill Blotevogel, but she got story credit only (Martin got teleplay - meaning writing - credit for "The Storm - part 1"). WOW! Two whole episodes out of 100.

So based on the above - how much do I believe Sabotage was completely written by a woman? Or that the final product will be hers? I could buy a female getting story credit...maybe. But you know, even if Sabotage was 100% written by a woman, that doesn't negate a thing. Now, unless this female is also a creative consultant to the show, has some executive standing, don't we all know that NO script is going ANYWHERE without Wright and Cooper and their stamp of approval, summer vacation or not? Let alone a casting call going out without the big guns seeing the script and green-lighting it? :( And if the writer was a free-lance writer - which TPTB rarely use (a handful for SG1 and two or three for SGA) - then the idea of the script being green-lighted to the point of casting calls and scripts marked 'final draft' are even more ludicrous to believe. :( Sorry, I just can't buy it. But I've been accused of being stubborn before ;)

Coronach
August 20th, 2009, 03:55 PM
Okay, as to your first paragraph - I have to disagree with you. In fact, many people have been arguing that it's 'no big deal', that it's not rape, etc. etc. That's why some of us are still involved in this discussion - to make it clear that it does and will matter.

Here on Gateworld? You'd have to point me to a post so I could see this for myself. If anyone's ever really said that this is isn't rape and that rape isn't a big deal, then shame on them.


That said, the other reason many of us are still involved is that we have no faith in the writers - based on their history - to deal with such a subject with both real dignity and respect. If I thought for one minute that such an episode could be told by TPTB with real skill, I'd be looking forward to it. But again, I have only their history to go by.

Then this is where we differ. The trailers alone (for what they're worth) suggest a change and incorporation of new elements already. If they are able to incorporate these changes, I see no reason the writers can't make the change from episodic--->serialized stories.

And (as I suggested before), how do we know that these writers won't do better with this new serialized format? That's something we don't have history to go by.


Was Daniel's rape handled well? Was Lucius' form of date rape handled well?

Both of which TPTB have expressed concern over after the fact. Maybe they didn't realize it at first, but they do now.


Was Cadman's use of Rodney's body handled well? No. :(

What part of this strikes you as handled poorly? (I'm assuming you mean from "Duet"). There weren't any hard-hitting moral issues brought up in that episode that pertained to body-sharing (unless you count the kiss).

The slash fandom certainly didn't seem to care then, and neither did the Sheppard/Weir fandom over the kiss in "The Long Goodbye".

I don't think these are very good examples of this type of issue not being handled well.

[EDIT] Wanted to add this:


As for the generalization of all men approving of adultery - that was not, by any means, my intent. However - I do believe a good portion of the audience these guys think they're writing for (the 18-39 year-old male demographics) will be titillated by the idea and even if they themselves would never enter into an adulterous relationship, many will still have fun with the idea presented by this device.

First, define "a good portion of the...18-39 year-old male demographic" ;)

Second, what idea is that? The abuse of a woman's body by means of non-consensual sex (i.e. rape) when that woman's mind is elsewhere? Oh yes...men will definitely have fun with that...

If you can't tell, I'm still getting the generalization vibe from your newly-reworded statement. Though I thank you for saying it isn't your intent anyways.

prion
August 20th, 2009, 04:22 PM
Didn't Atlantis send him back to the planet so they could decide what to do with him?

Yes, but since the writers thought he was such a fun character, he returned for another episode. Gah, trying to forget "gunfight at the dutch village" episode which was such a waste of Kolya.

PG15
August 20th, 2009, 04:46 PM
Both Faith and Human were freelance scripts.

That said, all scripts do go through the other writers and, ultimately, Wright and Cooper.

Shan Bruce Lee
August 20th, 2009, 06:48 PM
Here on Gateworld? You'd have to point me to a post so I could see this for myself. If anyone's ever really said that this is isn't rape and that rape isn't a big deal, then shame on them.

I don't think anybody would deny that what we're talking about is rape. The only counter-argument was that there could be an "unknown factor" like Wray giving consent.

I still contend that there's no concrete evidence that the "intimacy" means actually having sex, and that's where the moral question comes in... how far is too far? A hug? A kiss?

Eternal Density
August 20th, 2009, 08:17 PM
I think that SG-1 and Atlantis weren't about handling the fallout from this sort of thing. Psychological and emotional fallout didn't come up a lot because that wasn't the focus of the show. (I'm not saying that lets the writers off completely for not showing that there were issues that had to be dealt with, but it does explain a bit of why they didn't choose to show this sort of issue being handled.

SG:U is said to be a lot more about the characters, character development, their interactions, and such like. Which means that dealing with this sort of issue is actually part of the intention of the show. I think they will aim to address this sort of thing, rather than brush it aside as they did on SG-1 and Atlantis.

Shan: In my opinion, Wray would object to any sort of intimacy involving her body, and has every right to. So even a hug between Eleanor-in-Wray and Rush would be over the line ethically. There's not a chance Wray would give permission for that, and I think we can safely assume that it does go at least that far. Rush is going to be in major trouble, to say the least and Eleanor is lucky she'll be billions of lightyears away... although I figure she'll have her own issues with what happened while Wray was in her body. Two wrongs don't make a right (nor do three) but... well it's a very complicated situation about which we only have sketchy details.

sideburns
August 21st, 2009, 03:09 PM
Hey guys, let me pose a question to you?

Is rape or torture worse?

Torture can sometimes include rape, but even without, could be worse. Why no outcry when Teal'c gets tortured?
Does this not remind veterans who were tortured in captivity of their helplessness and pain?
Is that not the exact same idea as why you're all getting worked up about this?

I guess since rape is generalized as always happening to females, it's worse, since they're generalized as being frailer and unable to deal with it. (generalization, not my opinion)

Had any of the scripts been leaked with regards to any torture - especially graphic torture - if a casting call had gone out for the character who would be doing the torture and had been as badly worded as the one we've been discussing (I don't think I need to be specific here) - you bet we'd be up in arms. As it is, there are scenes - like in Ark of Truth where Mitchell is beaten to a pulp in one of the longest most gruesome 'fights' that many of us objected to for 'oh so many reasons'.

And if you'd really been reading the thread - you'd have noted several references to Daniel's rape as an example of how badly TPTB have dealt with this subject in the past - so the fact that it's a woman has nothing to do with it.

PG15
August 28th, 2009, 07:25 PM
Small update:


Major D. Davis writes: “[...] 2. Which episode are you currently shooting? I remember Pain was in prep almost directly after Human finished shooting, so is Lost or Sabotage waiting to film after Pain is shot, or is my math and logic all off and you are shooting both Lost and Sabotage before Pain?”

Answers: [...] 2. We wrapped Sabotage yesterday and have moved on to Pain.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/08/28/august-28-2009-deciphering-the-results-actor-peter-kelamis-and-random-set-pics/

Coronach
August 28th, 2009, 07:35 PM
Nice...Sabotage is wrapped already. Definitely going pretty fast :D

PG15
August 30th, 2009, 10:24 PM
Small update:


Iamza also writes: “When you say Sabotage has just wrapped, was that the script, or the actual episode shoot? Because if the latter, wow! Things move fast!”

Answer: Things DO move fast. We wrapped the episode and Pain started shooting on Friday.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/08/30/august-30-2009-no-fan-left-behind-david-blue-wants-to-hear-from-you-exclusives-prizes-and-surprises/

Jper
October 30th, 2009, 08:01 AM
Writer:


1x16- Sabotage: Barbara Marshall

Link (http://static.titanmagazines.com/promotions/pdf/Stargate_Magazine_Sampler.pdf)

@PG15: Thought you might want to change that in your first post.

Dan1879
October 31st, 2009, 11:13 AM
I don't think that their alone on the Destiny. Perhaps some alien sabotages the ship.

Madwelshboy
November 18th, 2009, 07:35 AM
AfterEllen Interview with Ming-Na
Talks about her character, the episodes "Life" & "Sabotage". (minor spoilers)

http://www.afterellen.com/people/2009/11/ming-na?page=0%2C0

Tau
November 20th, 2009, 07:34 PM
History is also not infallible.

And what is this crap about having the lesbian have sex with men? That makes no sense whatsoever. The character of Wray is in another body.

I'm not sure what you think we're getting out of this. With Wray's mind somewhere else, and Wray's body occupied by a straight female, we're basically getting hetero sex. Big deal?

It is a big deal, it's like giving the woman a roofie, she won't remember having sex with a man, but she will feel it and know something is wrong. it's rape unless I see Camile say to the quad "You have permission to use my body sexually".

I'd like to see a straight guy swap his body with a gay man then come to Destiny, then see how he feel waking up with a sore behind. Nope can't do that to a hetero man, that would turn the 15-25 male fans away............wait, there really isn't a whole lot of young guys watching, last 6 times I've been to a SG con there were 95% women attending. :teyla:

Jeff O'Connor
November 20th, 2009, 07:54 PM
I'm watching, I'm male, I'm 22 and I did find that a little bit unsettling. I think it borders ridiculous, really.

PG15
November 20th, 2009, 09:47 PM
............wait, there really isn't a whole lot of young guys watching, last 6 times I've been to a SG con there were 95% women attending. :teyla:

Common misconception. As with fan forums, convention goers tend to be biased towards a certain group of fans; i.e. middle-aged women.

Rhoswen
November 23rd, 2009, 12:52 PM
I've read the casting sides for Eleanor Perry, and there were some other plot points in her sides (besides Eleanor Perry switching bodies with Camile Wray) that I thought might be of interest:

James and TJ have a conversation in which TJ asks James if she's having a phantom memory from her (James') swap with Perry. James says, "Maybe," but sounds unconvinced. <--(I only read the end of this scene, so I don't have any idea what this phantom memory is.)

After the above scene, there's the scene where Perry first looks at herself in a mirror in Wray's body.

Perry is helping the Destiny crew because there was an explosion on the Destiny in one of the 12 modules that make up the FTL drive. It blew up because there was an overload due to it being worn out and running inefficiently. Perry, Rush, and Eli tell Young that they've discovered that the Destiny can still fly using the other 11 modules, but they have to bypass the damaged module manually. Eli suggests that they use the repair robot they found, and Rush suggests that Young have Scott fly the robot to the damaged section via shuttle. <--(I'm assuming that the Destiny lost power and stopped partway through a void, because Perry says that once the repair is made, Destiny should make it across the void).

Young also sends a team back to a planet to search for food and water, to make the most of the time that they'll be stuck.

In a later scene (which may have been cut from the episode), James tells Young (after another scene which may have been cut from the episode, in which James tells Chloe about her phantom memory/dream) that she thinks that she damaged the ship. <--(I'm guessing that if these scenes are kept in the episode that someone who switched bodies with James turns out to be the saboteur (maybe Perry, so that she could experience living a while longer without paralysis? <--(and I feel so mean/icky even suggesting that; maybe the saboteur isn't Perry.)). But the word "cut" was written next to these scenes, and they were crossed out, so we'll have to wait and see.).

kirmit
November 23rd, 2009, 01:51 PM
I love the idea of giving the destiny a Repair robot, hopefully it'll start repairing all the other parts of the ship and they can explore it all.

BobG
December 17th, 2009, 09:10 AM
What personally concerns me is not the fact that rape itself is portrayed, but how the characters deal with the repercussions. I couldn't believe there were no repercussions for Young and his wife after they effectively raped Telford while Young was in control of his body.

MattSilver 3k
December 17th, 2009, 10:14 AM
What personally concerns me is not the fact that rape itself is portrayed, but how the characters deal with the repercussions. I couldn't believe there were no repercussions for Young and his wife after they effectively raped Telford while Young was in control of his body.

That argument's not going to hold up in this Kangaroo Court, Bobby. For one thing, we're not privy to the whole truth about using the stones - is it really that bad if the body being used has consented that sex may be a possibility?

Daro
December 17th, 2009, 11:53 AM
That argument's not going to hold up in this Kangaroo Court, Bobby. For one thing, we're not privy to the whole truth about using the stones - is it really that bad if the body being used has consented that sex may be a possibility?

It isn't at all impossible to imagine some sort of general agreement being worked out, when the stones were being used by crew members to visit home, what liberties you can take while in someone else's body.
It stands to reason that anyone who thought out this process would realize that A) The people on the ship know they're on borrowed time, and could die any day, B) They miss their loved ones terribly, and C) When you go visit your wife, boyfriend, girlfriend, etc, you want to feel close to them, and alive. You want to be with them one last time. Sex is not just possible, it's extremely likely.
I would feel much better if we found out at some point that the people doing the swapping have entered into an agreement and taken some counseling or whatever they need to accept this fact. Otherwise, they shouldn't be using the stones at all.
That said, the person borrowing another's body has moral obligations even if they're allowed to have sex. Don't sleep with everyone in town; use protection; don't abuse illegal substances etc. Roughly, it'd be like borrowing a friend's car; do what you'd normally do with your own, as long as you don't rack up parking tickets, do doughnuts in the parking lot, or repaint it to your favorite color. (the last part being, don't go get a tattoo or make any other major changes when you're swapped.)
The word 'rape' is getting thrown around a lot. I too am troubled by the morality behind using another person's body for sex. I'm just not ready to start griping that Young and his wife raped Telford, or Rush possibly having sex with Perry, as has been hinted, makes Rush a rapist.

Tricky issue even if there is some sort of agreement, though. I trust the writers to tackle the ethics of using the stones in the upcoming episodes.

BobG
December 17th, 2009, 02:56 PM
I guess that's the point really, whether or not there was genuine consent. I like your car analogy, and I guess someone else's body should be treated with even more respect.

Maybe this is just me, but if I was told by my superiors that my expertise was needed to help out on the Destiny, and I came back to find that my body had been had-sex-with without my explicit prior consent, I'd be pretty darn mad. In fact I'd consider that extreme abuse. I'd be angry if they'd done anything abusive to my body, including alcohol/drug abuse, getting into a fight, etc.

It just surprised me that it seemed to be taken for granted that when in control of someone else's body, you have free reign to do whatever you want with it.

I guess what convinced me it was no different to rape was the analogy someone posted that if someone drugs somebody and then has sex with them, the victim may have no recollection whatsoever, but it's certainly still rape.

Even if they come up with some sort of agreement beforehand that the bodyswapper has to sign up to, I don't think it will be easy to do this convincingly. I think the writers have set themselves a good challenge with this one.

Jumper_One
January 1st, 2010, 07:16 PM
Tom also writes: “3: Finally, IF the first half of Season One has all been in a single galaxy, then there logically has to be journey from one galaxy to the next. I would be curious to see if there are plans for an episode or two to be featured while Destiny is in the ‘void’ between two galaxys, where presumably there is no place to gate to.”

Answer: Check out Sabotage, coming up in the second half of season one.
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2010/01/01/january-1-2009-decca-77-the-mailbag/

morrismike
January 1st, 2010, 07:48 PM
It is a big deal, it's like giving the woman a roofie, she won't remember having sex with a man, but she will feel it and know something is wrong. it's rape unless I see Camile say to the quad "You have permission to use my body sexually".

I'd like to see a straight guy swap his body with a gay man then come to Destiny, then see how he feel waking up with a sore behind. Nope can't do that to a hetero man, that would turn the 15-25 male fans away............wait, there really isn't a whole lot of young guys watching, last 6 times I've been to a SG con there were 95% women attending. :teyla:

didn't wray use a body for sex without permission?

jelgate
January 1st, 2010, 07:49 PM
didn't wray use a body for sex without permission?

No

morrismike
January 2nd, 2010, 06:25 AM
No
I seem to remember her jumping the sheets with her gal pal in a body that wasn't hers during that earth visit.

MattSilver 3k
January 2nd, 2010, 06:42 AM
I seem to remember her jumping the sheets with her gal pal in a body that wasn't hers during that earth visit.

We saw them kiss, and hold each other with clothes on while on the sofa. That does not equal sex. Sure, there may be implied sex, which is another layer of discussing stuff!

jelgate
January 2nd, 2010, 07:22 AM
I seem to remember her jumping the sheets with her gal pal in a body that wasn't hers during that earth visit.

We saw them kiss. Nothing more. Given how uncomfortable Wray said she was in a different body I doubt she would commit sexual intercourse.

Jper
January 2nd, 2010, 07:57 AM
We saw them kiss. Nothing more. Given how uncomfortable Wray said she was in a different body I doubt she would commit sexual intercourse.

I agree. :)

morrismike
January 2nd, 2010, 08:43 AM
I think I understand. It's ok for regular cast to do the naughty in another body but people occupying them should be saints.

MattSilver 3k
January 2nd, 2010, 09:37 AM
I think I understand. It's ok for regular cast to do the naughty in another body but people occupying them should be saints.

Uhh... what? So you're saying that it's okay for Young to do the naughty, but the others occupying should be saints? Or that the non-regulars are saints?

Because, either way, I fail to see how that detracts from the point me and Jelgate nailed home: There's no proof of sex between Camille in someone else's body and Sharon...

morrismike
January 2nd, 2010, 11:04 AM
Uhh... what? So you're saying that it's okay for Young to do the naughty, but the others occupying should be saints? Or that the non-regulars are saints?

Because, either way, I fail to see how that detracts from the point me and Jelgate nailed home: There's no proof of sex between Camille in someone else's body and Sharon...

Heavy implication of said act.

jelgate
January 2nd, 2010, 11:18 AM
A kiss is an implication of sex?

PG15
January 2nd, 2010, 02:20 PM
An implication is not proof.

Seeing as there is precedent for sex on the show, the fact that they didn't show any sex between Wray and Sharon is actually fairly significant.

morrismike
January 2nd, 2010, 09:06 PM
An implication is not proof.

Seeing as there is precedent for sex on the show, the fact that they didn't show any sex between Wray and Sharon is actually fairly significant.

gay sex is different and not taken lightly in american tv

PG15
January 2nd, 2010, 09:14 PM
But it's lesbian sex. :D

morrismike
January 3rd, 2010, 06:57 AM
But it's lesbian sex. :D

I'm with you and would like to see lesbian sex on TV too.

TBA
January 3rd, 2010, 03:51 PM
TJ and Rhona Mitra... Man that would be so awesome.

PG15
January 29th, 2010, 02:15 AM
A mention:


As several of you pointed out, the show is called “Stargate: Universe” so you want to see us make use of the gate. Well, some interesting gate use upcoming in the back half of season one and into season two which goes hand in hand with another fan request: “More aliens!” and “More alien worlds!” Done and done, in the case of the former sooner, and the in the case of the latter just a tad later. Space, Faith, Lost, and Sabotage come to mind.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2010/01/28/january-28-2010-what-aspect-of-the-show-would-you-like-to-see-further-explored-in-the-back-half-of-season-one-and-beyond/

PG15
February 1st, 2010, 12:28 AM
Small update via Twitter:


Many great laughs w/ Louis Ferraira and @Julia_Benson today! Did the DVD commentaries for "Divided" and "Sabotage". Two killer new episodes!

http://twitter.com/AtleastLevesque/status/8485560587

EllieVee
February 1st, 2010, 01:21 AM
Wish RC would do a commentary. He's hilarious in the Ravenous commentary.

timebandit
April 4th, 2010, 11:17 AM
is franklin in this ep? If imdb is any indication he is...

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0148990/filmoseries#tt1286039

Coronach
April 4th, 2010, 11:20 AM
Since IMDB still has Ming-Na listed as only appearing in 9 episodes (the most recent episode "Space" not being one of them), I'm inclined to highly distrust most of what that site says. :P

Rhoswen
April 22nd, 2010, 04:13 PM
Episode descriptions from tvguide.com (http://www.tvguide.com/detail/tv-show.aspx?tvobjectid=297135&more=ucepisodelist&episodeid=16034654):

An expert in hyper drives, who has a past with Dr. Rush, arrives on the Destiny via the communication stones when it seems the ship will run out of power before it reaches its next destination, which would leave the crew adrift.

and from tv.msn.com (http://tv.msn.com/tv/episode/stargate-universe/sabotage/):

The crew calls upon a brilliant scientist from Earth to help find a solution when a drive module on the Destiny explodes due to an overload.

Spimman
April 23rd, 2010, 05:36 AM
Anyone know if they are traveling between galaxies while these events take place?

reddevil18
April 23rd, 2010, 05:42 AM
Anyone know if they are traveling between galaxies while these events take place?
Yes, they are.

timebandit
April 23rd, 2010, 08:15 AM
i wonder since the ep is called 'sabotage' if this is something the blue guys did - dont think this is the ep when they gate to destiny [1.5 trailer] though. course i could be wrong ... ? maybe they're all like, 'sorry, our bad, lets fix this' and they become friends ... riiight.

but yeah, who did the sabotaging...[deliberate vs mechanical failure/accident from being an old ship] - maybe even a crew mbr on board?

Jper
April 23rd, 2010, 08:16 AM
i wonder since the ep is called 'sabotage' if this is something the blue guys did - dont think this is the ep when they gate to destiny [1.5 trailer] though. course i could be wrong ... ? maybe they're all like, 'sorry, our bad, lets fix this' and they become friends ... riiight.

but yeah, who did the sabotaging...[deliberate vs mechanical failure/accident from being an old ship] - maybe even a crew mbr on board?

Someone on board sabotages one of the twelve FTL drives. Probably the Lucian Alliance spy on board.

Spimman
April 23rd, 2010, 08:40 AM
Someone on board sabotages one of the twelve FTL drives. Probably the Lucian Alliance spy on board.

I don't really understand what the motive would be to sabotage Destiny and leave them stranded in a void between galaxies.

jelgate
April 23rd, 2010, 08:44 AM
I don't really understand what the motive would be to sabotage Destiny and leave them stranded in a void between galaxies.

Stop the Tauri from getting more knowledge about t he Destiny that could maybe get reverse engineered on Earth

Spimman
April 23rd, 2010, 10:41 AM
Stop the Tauri from getting more knowledge about t he Destiny that could maybe get reverse engineered on Earth

I should have been more specific, I guess I'm seeing the future a little bit her. I'm assuming:the Lucian Alliance is already in the process of come to Destiny (I still don't know how that happens)Knowing that spoiler, who would they want to do that? I guess I kinda see the Lucian Alliance as a group of mercenary types so find it a little more surprising that someone would sacrifice themselves when they're stranded on Destiny...why not just break the communication stones.

TENTHIUS
April 24th, 2010, 01:03 PM
I think there's a mistake on the Syfy website, because there's a shot from Sabotage on this page, but the next episode is Lost. Maybe someone didn't notice that those two eps were switched and uploaded there this wrong picture:
http://www.syfy.com/universe/

PG15
April 30th, 2010, 08:15 PM
Ok, I've avoided reading too much spoilers for this episode so maybe this is old news, but in the SPACE channel trailer for this episode...

OMG OMG OMG!! Space battles! The crew of Destiny prepare for an assault from the Blues through the gate! Young makes a speech telling everyone that they will need to work together now that the Blues are going to attack! Rush saying that they will all be taken! Destiny stranded amidst galaxies - most beautiful thing ever!


I'll try to film and upload the trailer as soon as I can. It's going to be a tad dark, but hopefully you'll see some of the spectacularity! :D

Pharaoh Atem
April 30th, 2010, 08:15 PM
not looking forward to this ep

Briangate78
April 30th, 2010, 08:23 PM
not looking forward to this ep

How come?

major davis
April 30th, 2010, 08:26 PM
not looking forward to this ep

Dude did you see the trailer for this. Omg ridiculously good. However I'm kinda mad they have to put in body swapping in the episode. Not up to Sharon camille Perry rush body swapping romance stuff.

Briangate78
April 30th, 2010, 08:29 PM
Dude did you see the trailer for this. Omg ridiculously good. However I'm kinda mad they have to put in body swapping in the episode. Not up to Sharon camille Perry rush body swapping romance stuff.

Well it seems the real soapy drama they are keeping it limited like with tonight's ep...

The whole "I'm pregnant" thing was short and sweet and did not really contribute or distrupt the episode.

major davis
April 30th, 2010, 09:07 PM
Well it seems the real soapy drama they are keeping it limited like with tonight's ep...

The whole "I'm pregnant" thing was short and sweet and did not really contribute or distrupt the episode.

Well I knew that was coming so I didn't really mind it. It was a great moment, it just belonged somewhere else. I'm just scared about sabotage. It looks like such a good story I just hope the stone drama doesn't ruin the plot.

Pharaoh Atem
April 30th, 2010, 09:07 PM
How come?
the body switching storyline.

Briangate78
April 30th, 2010, 09:11 PM
the body switching storyline.

Good ole stones being put back to use huh? :p

Pharaoh Atem
April 30th, 2010, 09:14 PM
Good ole stones being put back to use huh? :p

that and we don't need to bring up the whole lesbian body switching part of it. if i'm reading the details of the ep correctly. ....

personally i could care less.

major davis
April 30th, 2010, 09:17 PM
Ya I'm afraid it will ruin the intrigue and suspense and mature drama of the A story. :)

Pharaoh Atem
April 30th, 2010, 09:18 PM
Ya I'm afraid it will ruin the intrigue and suspense and mature drama of the A story. :)

it has nothing to do with survival or destiny. it's dumb

Briangate78
April 30th, 2010, 09:23 PM
that and we don't need to bring up the whole lesbian body switching part of it. if i'm reading the details of the ep correctly. ....

personally i could care less.

For the record, I have no issues with gay people, or lesbians. But I just don't see it adding anything to this kind of show. The whole Young and Rush conflinct was great. Wray was good with that conflict also. But why I hated "Life" so much was because it was truly a soap opera to me, and people will disagree and whatever don't care, but it was too soapy to me. I want to see results, I want to see these flawed character get thrown into a situation like "Space", "Divided", "Human", and "Lost". I don't care who's baby daddy is whos I don't care who is boinking who and who has hurt feelings because of it, and I don't care who is pregnant and when they are going to tell the baby daddy. But.......the show with the excpetion of "Life" has not focused on those things. Take tonight's episode "I'm pregnant" blah blah, ok Young knows lets move on....and the episode did.

major davis
April 30th, 2010, 09:36 PM
For the record, I have no issues with gay people, or lesbians. But I just don't see it adding anything to this kind of show. The whole Young and Rush conflinct was great. Wray was good with that conflict also. But why I hated "Life" so much was because it was truly a soap opera to me, and people will disagree and whatever don't care, but it was too soapy to me. I want to see results, I want to see these flawed character get thrown into a situation like "Space", "Divided", "Human", and "Lost". I don't care who's baby daddy is whos I don't care who is boinking who and who has hurt feelings because of it, and I don't care who is pregnant and when they are going to tell the baby daddy. But.......the show with the excpetion of "Life" has not focused on those things. Take tonight's episode "I'm pregnant" blah blah, ok Young knows lets move on....and the episode did.

Yay I agree. I mean if young went home in some persons crippled body and saw his wife in this episode while some crippled person went in youngs body and started to do things during a setting in which the ship has been sabotaged and at risk of attack, that irritate me just as much. Young/wife. Camille/sharon Scott/son. I don't care which, just sabotage was not the right episode to include any of this stuff. Like you said it does nothing to support the story. :(

moriktherogue
April 30th, 2010, 09:39 PM
will have to confirm it upon viewing again, but i do believe the place on the destiny that blows up on Space's sneak peek for this episode is around the same spot where they found the attached alien ship in the episode Divided.

Coronach
April 30th, 2010, 09:44 PM
We have no idea to what extent any of this body-swapping/stone usage will do to support or hinder the story.

I mean, I know there's spoilers out there...but I'm relatively certain that I know what people are worried about in this episode. The problem is unless you have a script you have no reason to believe these sorts of things will not be beneficial to the story.

Yes, if done like "Life" I can see why some people don't enjoy such episodes (though I loved it). But then again, who's to say "Sabotage" won't have the kind of balance "Lost" just did as far as action-adventure-drama went?

For me, it's too early to say what sort of emphasis these sorts of things will play. If anything, the trailer for "Sabotage" didn't even hint at anything except for an impending attack. :S

MattSilver 3k
April 30th, 2010, 09:51 PM
Sabotage will be Sabotage. Not sure about its awesomeness, but then again, I haven't watched it.

I'm just impressed though...

There were some spoilers out there that said Chloe and James would be investigating the sabotage done on the ship. Given how Lost ended, I doubt Chloe and her peeps will be back onboard until at least the end of the episode (Or further), so I'm wondering if that was a foiler or way too early spoiler that she'd be back on the ship. Because of that spoiler, I fully believed Lost would end well for her and her team... but nope! Still stranded, and Matt's surprised.

SupremeLegate
April 30th, 2010, 10:41 PM
Sabotage will be Sabotage. Not sure about its awesomeness, but then again, I haven't watched it.

I'm just impressed though...

There were some spoilers out there that said Chloe and James would be investigating the sabotage done on the ship. Given how Lost ended, I doubt Chloe and her peeps will be back onboard until at least the end of the episode (Or further), so I'm wondering if that was a foiler or way too early spoiler that she'd be back on the ship. Because of that spoiler, I fully believed Lost would end well for her and her team... but nope! Still stranded, and Matt's surprised.

Wow, totaly forgot about that spoiler. I wonder how they will solve that.

MattSilver 3k
April 30th, 2010, 10:47 PM
Wow, totaly forgot about that spoiler. I wonder how they will solve that.

And I just read another one that said...

Scott's helping out Young with some sort of robot drone.

I guess Lost'll get solved nice and early in the next episode?

AND another that notes Eli being there.

So yeah, its either foiler city of Sabotage just starts off with solving Lost. I'm confused, in a good way.

EDIT EDIT: Oh, the promo for Sabotage is up on Syfy:
http://video.syfy.com/shows/universe

Looks... fun. Maybe they've totally reworked the story since the original casting notes came out?

PG15
April 30th, 2010, 11:41 PM
Or maybe the original casting notes were just blown waaaaaay out of proportion?

But no, fans don't do that. No siree Bob!

MattSilver 3k
April 30th, 2010, 11:48 PM
Or maybe the original casting notes were just blown waaaaaay out of proportion?

But no, fans don't do that. No siree Bob!

*snort* Yeah, like that'd ever happen.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
May 1st, 2010, 12:31 AM
sabotage may have to deal with the aliens actually gating to destiny as seen in the 1.5 trailer. and if you remember in the promo for this epi we saw three blue alien motherships catch up with destiny. so i got a feeling we will see the return of the Blue Aliens. (can the writers actually give them a proper name for the race?)

The Swarm
May 1st, 2010, 01:11 AM
Indeed this is actualy one of the arch enemys of this season(besides the Loser Alliance)....they need a name.(not Smurfs!)

EllieVee
May 1st, 2010, 02:05 AM
Indeed this is actualy one of the arch enemys of this season(besides the Loser Alliance)....they need a name.(not Smurfs!)

http://www.dolforums.com.au/style_emoticons/default/smurfanim.gifhttp://www.dolforums.com.au/style_emoticons/default/smurfanim.gifhttp://www.dolforums.com.au/style_emoticons/default/smurfanim.gif

reddevil18
May 1st, 2010, 03:37 AM
I'm not a fan of the stones and, despite the fact that I enjoyed the Sharon/Camille moments in Life, I really don't want to see more of it. The Earth relationships just don't interest me, because the situation on Destiny has evolved a lot and the characters there are interesting enough to support a storyline without falling back on some Earth drama.

Osiristi
May 1st, 2010, 03:54 AM
IF I recall correctly, Lost was originally supposed to come after Sabotage and the team was supposed to be onboard Destiny, so things have clearly changed.

globex
May 1st, 2010, 04:45 AM
promo for sabotage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzQ1DszTA-8

The Shrike
May 1st, 2010, 05:07 AM
Why do I get the feeling that when the Destiny drops out of FTL (due to sabotage), Eli will be trying a hail mary by dialing the gate...and make the connection to the ship.

globex
May 1st, 2010, 05:14 AM
^I hope its not as predicable as that. Want it to last a few more episodes.Makes it more interesting and (although annoying in a good way), interesting and edge of your seat stuff.

Rhoswen
May 1st, 2010, 05:24 AM
Sabotage will be Sabotage. Not sure about its awesomeness, but then again, I haven't watched it.

I'm just impressed though...

There were some spoilers out there that said Chloe and James would be investigating the sabotage done on the ship. Given how Lost ended, I doubt Chloe and her peeps will be back onboard until at least the end of the episode (Or further), so I'm wondering if that was a foiler or way too early spoiler that she'd be back on the ship. Because of that spoiler, I fully believed Lost would end well for her and her team... but nope! Still stranded, and Matt's surprised.

Clarifying(?) info from casting sides:

The casting sides that I saw for Eleanor Perry began with scene 48, so there's still scenes 1-47 in which to rescue Chloe, Scott, and Eli.

Eleanor flirts with Eli (and he turns her down) in scene 50. In scene 51, Young tells Scott that Eli and Dr. Perry have a shuttle mission for him (to use the robot to bypass the damaged module). Young also mentions that he's going to send a team "back to the planet to search for food and water," and that that should buy them some time. <--This may be how Chloe, Eli, and Scott get back to the Destiny (via the gate, which at the end of "Lost" we were told couldn't happen because the Destiny had left the galaxy). It looks like they may try to delay jumping to FTL by having the gate open to a planet.

The module situation appears to be resolved by scene 73, because in it Rush tells Eleanor "Well, that was a day's work if ever there was one." Scene 74 is between James and Chloe (the one in which James describes a dream-that-may-not-be-a-dream in which she may have damaged the ship). In scene 75, they go tell Young.

Scenes 76 and 77 are the ones with Rush and Eleanor Perry that end in him kissing and embracing her in her quarters.

Demoniser
May 1st, 2010, 05:25 AM
Why do I get the feeling that when the Destiny drops out of FTL (due to sabotage), Eli will be trying a hail mary by dialing the gate...and make the connection to the ship.

I have a bit of a hunch on how this is all going to play out tbh, i dont know if its been thought of before as ive not looked through the entire thread.

1. The Blue Aliens have a gate on one of their ships, which is currently in FTL so it didn't show up on the DHD in Lost at the time.

2. However in Sabotage we find that its dropped out of FTL and a new address 'appears' on the DHD Eli is using, in range of the current network of gates they're in.

3. They gate to the ship, (they know the aliens are following Destiny so its the best bet they have)

4. Coinciding with this at the same time Destiny is sabotaged, taking it out of FTL and at a standstill, making it capable for a wormhole to connect.

All just a crazy theory though, plausible though.

5. Eli's group Gates from the blue aliens ship to the Destiny. Using it as another 'link' in the chain of gates.

6. This is how the Blue guys get aboard the ship as seen in the trailer, we know a wormhole can be kept open from sending a signal through and the crew on the Destiny doesn't have control over the systems so they can't shut down the wormhole manually.

MattSilver 3k
May 1st, 2010, 05:31 AM
Clarifying(?) info from casting sides:

The casting sides that I saw for Eleanor Perry began with scene 48, so there's still scenes 1-47 in which to rescue Chloe, Scott, and Eli.

Eleanor flirts with Eli (and he turns her down) in scene 50. In scene 51, Young tells Scott that Eli and Dr. Perry have a shuttle mission for him (to use the robot to bypass the damaged module). Young also mentions that he's going to send a team "back to the planet to search for food and water," and that that should buy them some time. <--This may be how Chloe, Eli, and Scott get back to the Destiny (via the gate, which at the end of "Lost" we were told couldn't happen because the Destiny had left the galaxy). It looks like they may try to delay jumping to FTL by having the gate open to a planet.

The module situation appears to be resolved by scene 73, because in it Rush tells Eleanor "Well, that was a day's work if ever there was one." Scene 74 is between James and Chloe (the one in which James describes a dream-that-may-not-be-a-dream in which she may have damaged the ship). In scene 75, they go tell Young.

Scenes 76 and 77 are the ones with Rush and Eleanor Perry that end in him kissing and embracing her in her quarters.

Ahh - thank you very much. So yeah, there's a good chance then.

Rhoswen
May 1st, 2010, 05:48 AM
Glad to help :)

Yeah, it appears that...

The damage to the module causes Destiny to drop out of FTL before it leaves the galaxy, and that while it's out of FTL Eli, Chloe, and Scott gate back to Destiny. Then someone decides to contact Eleanor Perry to help because the damaged module will mean that Destiny won't be able to make it across the void between galaxies the next time they jump to FTL. They eventually discover that if they bypass the damaged module, that will prevent the energy drain and they'll be able to make it across the void, so that's what they use the shuttle/robot to do.

Just an FYI: There's no mention of the blue aliens in the casting sides.

The Shrike
May 1st, 2010, 05:55 AM
.....All just a crazy theory though, plausible though.

5. Eli's group Gates from the blue aliens ship to the Destiny. Using it as another 'link' in the chain of gates.

6. This is how the Blue guys get aboard the ship as seen in the trailer, we know a wormhole can be kept open from sending a signal through and the crew on the Destiny doesn't have control over the systems so they can't shut down the wormhole manually.I like this idea, all I'd add to it is Eli turns around and gives the blue aliens the Spock live long and prosper V salute before stepping through the gate. :D

The Shrike
May 1st, 2010, 06:05 AM
Clarifying(?) info from casting sides:

...Scenes 76 and 77 are the ones with Rush and Eleanor Perry that end in him kissing and embracing her in her quarters. lol, I hope for Rush's sake Eleanor doesn't leave Camille a note, otherwise he could be in for some awkward moments in future episodes.

TENTHIUS
May 1st, 2010, 06:35 AM
Okay, I think that
those blue aliens/Smurfs or LA guys (I've heard that they have communication stones) "stone" into James and destroy the FTL module. And then like Scott had Telford's memories, she will remember this.
Rhoswen: They switched Lost and Sabotage. I wouldn't be surprised if they had to rewrite it. And they are in the trailer, so they'll definitely be there.

The Shrike
May 1st, 2010, 06:48 AM
Okay, I think that
those blue aliens/Smurfs or LA guys (I've heard that they have communication stones) "stone" into James and destroy the FTL module. And then like Scott had Telford's memories, she will remember this.
Rhoswen: They switched Lost and Sabotage. I wouldn't be surprised if they had to rewrite it. And they are in the trailer, so they'll definitely be there.Maybe James is secretly a LA sleeper agent, like Boomer in BSG, but without the silica pathways.

Rhoswen
May 1st, 2010, 07:19 AM
Okay, I think that
those blue aliens/Smurfs or LA guys (I've heard that they have communication stones) "stone" into James and destroy the FTL module. And then like Scott had Telford's memories, she will remember this.
Rhoswen: They switched Lost and Sabotage. I wouldn't be surprised if they had to rewrite it. And they are in the trailer, so they'll definitely be there.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that...

...the aliens wouldn't be in Sabotage. I just meant that they weren't in the last 1/3 of the episode, at least according to the casting sides for Eleanor Perry. We know from the preview that the aliens appear in Sabotage.

Unless Sabotage was rewritten quite a bit after the sides for it were posted (the sides say "final draft," so when they were posted it can be assumed that they described what was going to happen in the episode, at least as of that date), the aliens probably only appear in the first part (or somehow at the very end). I don't know if they're responsible for damaging the module. In the sides, it's implied that the sabotage may have occurred during a body swap between Perry and James (which could mean that Eleanor is responsible), but James seems unsure of that, so another alternative is that James is remembering being under the influence of the aliens (who may have damaged the module to try to gain control of Destiny). But the aliens aren't mentioned in the sides at all, so it's difficult to tell from them what damaged the module and/or how the aliens are involved in the episode. There is no mention of worrying that the aliens might return. The sides say that the module was damaged in an "explosion" but they don't specify how the explosion occurred.

Edited for clarity: According to the sides, the explosion of the module was due to an overload (and the exploded module was the weakest module), but the sides don't reveal how/why the overload happened.

MattSilver 3k
May 1st, 2010, 07:24 AM
Long story short: We're all confused. Isn't that cool? Come on - spoiler city for this episode because of those slides, and now thanks to episode switching and possible rewrites... I know I'm confused.

Rhoswen
May 1st, 2010, 07:38 AM
Long story short: We're all confused. Isn't that cool? Come on - spoiler city for this episode because of those slides, and now thanks to episode switching and possible rewrites... I know I'm confused.

It's very cool :) I love it when shows surprise me, which happened in the last episode, "Lost." I can't wait to see what happens in "Sabotage," and I have a feeling that even with all the spoilers we'll still be surprised.

Briangate78
May 1st, 2010, 09:16 AM
I think this episode will surprise a lot of folks in a good way.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 1st, 2010, 10:25 AM
^I hope its not as predicable as that. Want it to last a few more episodes.Makes it more interesting and (although annoying in a good way), interesting and edge of your seat stuff.


Long story short: We're all confused. Isn't that cool? Come on - spoiler city for this episode because of those slides, and now thanks to episode switching and possible rewrites... I know I'm confused.

After Lost, I can honestly say I have no idea what will happen next. Even when they are showing spoilers, there's no way to say where the writers will take us. I love that :)

Coremae
May 1st, 2010, 02:57 PM
^^^of course the funny controversy may be unfounded, or it might be well placed; who cares though, i liked the team stranded and that lost ended on a down note. need more creepy sad eps like that; hopefully molestations and babies being eaten :P

reddevil18
May 1st, 2010, 02:59 PM
Yes.

EllieVee
May 1st, 2010, 05:59 PM
I think this episode will surprise a lot of folks in a good way.

You tease ... :P

PG15
May 1st, 2010, 07:44 PM
As promised, the (bad quality) SPACE channel promo for this episode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7UoRU2askw

UAGoalieGuy
May 1st, 2010, 08:08 PM
Here is what I think (I haven't read through all 10 pages, so sorry if this was brought up already):


I think the writers were planting the seeds for the next episode, Sabatoge, in this episode. The power fluctuating, radios/kinos not charging, etc are signs that someone is messing around with the Destiny systems. The full effect of their Sabatoge is more then likely set to go into full swing when the Destiny jumps into FTL to go to the next galaxy.

When that happens, the Destiny address will show back up on Eli's little computer and they will be able to gate to the Destiny.

Nikec3
May 2nd, 2010, 02:01 AM
I have an idea how to resolve an episode Lost and Sabotage.
As far as we know from previous spoilers, Destiny will jump from FTL, somewhere between the two galaxies, because the failure on one of the Destiny's FTL modules. Then they will be attacked by Blue Aliens, defense against them will require much energy, and with it's own energy will Destiny never come to new galaxy.

So I think that Destiny for the arrival to a new galaxy will need a new source of energy, and the only one who can bring power source on Destiny are Eli, Scott and Cloe. I'm pretty sure that Eli and the gang find a planet with an energy source, then, they will connect to Destiny and take power source on Destiny, where they can use it to come to another galaxy.
What do you think?

I'am sorry if it's hard to understand, English is my 3rd language.

EllieVee
May 2nd, 2010, 02:07 AM
As promised, the (bad quality) SPACE channel promo for this episode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7UoRU2askw

Much better than the SyFy preview (do wish Young would stop speechifying; he's just not good at it).

reddevil18
May 2nd, 2010, 02:11 AM
As promised, the (bad quality) SPACE channel promo for this episode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7UoRU2askwEven in bad quality, that's just awesome.

PG15
May 2nd, 2010, 03:01 AM
Indeed. SPACE always has kick-ass promos.

So how about that Destiny-in-front-of-a-galaxy shot? DAYUM that's beautiful!

TENTHIUS
May 2nd, 2010, 03:53 AM
Yep. Even Sci-fi channel in Australia has better promos than Syfy. By the way
does that mean Blue guys/Smurfs can travel between galaxies?

kirmit
May 2nd, 2010, 04:06 AM
I have to wonder how the blue aliens locate the destiny again considering the crew destroyed the tracking beacons

Barroth
May 2nd, 2010, 04:20 AM
I have to wonder how the blue aliens locate the destiny again considering the crew destroyed the tracking beacons

that could be easy to explain

the blue aliens made the sabotage on the destiny, they know the destiny would leave the galaxie at some point and they know her path, so they choosed the point where the ftl-module overload

Rhoswen
May 2nd, 2010, 05:23 AM
I have to wonder how the blue aliens locate the destiny again considering the crew destroyed the tracking beacons

Maybe Eli, Chloe, and Scott activated an alarm in the alien ship that they gated back to, and then the aliens just follow them through the gates to Destiny while Destiny is still out of FTL and the ship is being repaired? The aliens going through the gates could then provide Destiny's location to the alien ships.

The casting sides skip scenes 52 through 71, so my revised guess is that the aliens show up during that part of the show. That would be sometime after Young sends a team back to the planet for food and water but before Rush says, "Well, that was a day's work if there ever was one," when it seems like their problems for that day have been resolved. The aliens aren't mentioned in the casting sides, so I think that unless the episode was rewritten, the aliens will appear either during scenes 52-71 or at the very end of the episode when everything seems to be ok.

I'm guessing that the timeline of the episode will be something like this:

-Module explosion, causing Destiny to drop out of FTL.
-Eli, Scott and Chloe either gate back to Destiny on their own, or Young sends a team through the gate to the planet where the 3 are and they're rescued.
-After being contacted to help with the module situation, Eleanor Perry swaps bodies with James then Wray.
-Eli and Perry discover that bypassing the damaged module will enable Destiny to make it across the void.
-Scott takes the robot in the shuttle to where the robot can work on bypassing the damaged module.
-To buy time to bypass the module, Young sends a team back to the planet Eli, Chloe, and Scott were on to get food and water.
-The blue aliens track Destiny, perhaps through the gates or via a tracking device that the crew hadn't found yet.
-Aliens are defeated, Destiny jumps back into FTL, and Rush is exhausted.
-James tells Chloe about her dream, Chloe suggests that maybe it wasn't a dream, and then James tells Young that she thinks that she's responsible for damaging the ship. <-- If James is some kind of sleeper agent, it will be interesting to find out who was controlling her, and how.
-Rush and Perry make out.

The Shrike
May 2nd, 2010, 08:56 AM
Eleanor Perry swaps bodies with James then Wray.

I wonder if she swaps with James body first in order to ask Wray face to face for permission to use hers to have sex with a man.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 2nd, 2010, 09:03 AM
As promised, the (bad quality) SPACE channel promo for this episode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7UoRU2askw


Indeed. SPACE always has kick-ass promos.

So how about that Destiny-in-front-of-a-galaxy shot? DAYUM that's beautiful!
I love SPACE :) Of course, it's all I get, LOL! The trailer looks a lot better on TV than on youtube


I have to wonder how the blue aliens locate the destiny again considering the crew destroyed the tracking beacons
I wonder if they got them all...

Homer 120
May 2nd, 2010, 11:29 AM
OK, THIS episode is a MUST WATCH! Despite what we've read and the 'Complaints' it has been getting about a certan storyline, this tralier REALLY gave me hope for the episode! Looks like we're gonna see some ACTION!

Is it me, or does Rush sound a little frightened when he says


RUSH: They're going to take the ship. They're going to take us.


?

Anyways, lookin' forward to this episode.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 2nd, 2010, 11:33 AM
OK, THIS episode is a MUST WATCH! Despite what we've read and the 'Complaints' it has been getting about a certan storyline, this tralier REALLY gave me hope for the episode! Looks like we're gonna see some ACTION!

Is it me, or does Rush sound a little frightened when he says


RUSH: They're going to take the ship. They're going to take us.


?

Anyways, lookin' forward to this episode.
yes, he looks scared to death, and further, I wonder if it's something he's known they would do? If he saw that was the intention when he was stuck on the alien ship, and that fear's driven him so far?

Homer 120
May 2nd, 2010, 12:27 PM
yes, he looks scared to death, and further, I wonder if it's something he's known they would do? If he saw that was the intention when he was stuck on the alien ship, and that fear's driven him so far?

Maybe so. DId they search Chloe for a tracking device? I always found that odd.

MattSilver 3k
May 2nd, 2010, 12:35 PM
Maybe so. DId they search Chloe for a tracking device? I always found that odd.

Rush did, 'ccording to Chloe. No bingo.

Pharaoh Atem
May 2nd, 2010, 06:07 PM
As promised, the (bad quality) SPACE channel promo for this episode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7UoRU2askw

sweet


'reads all the spioliers

EllieVee
May 3rd, 2010, 03:38 AM
OK, THIS episode is a MUST WATCH! Despite what we've read and the 'Complaints' it has been getting about a certan storyline, this tralier REALLY gave me hope for the episode! Looks like we're gonna see some ACTION!

Is it me, or does Rush sound a little frightened when he says


RUSH: They're going to take the ship. They're going to take us.


?

Anyways, lookin' forward to this episode.

Rush sounds very scared. Poor laddie.

reddevil18
May 3rd, 2010, 07:56 AM
Rush sounds very scared. Poor laddie.I'm sure Greer will save the big baby.

damon key
May 3rd, 2010, 06:47 PM
http://stargate.mgm.com/view/content/2147/index.html

New Pictures! :):):)

OMG! Franklin! I seriously thought he was dead. And I could have sworn he was said to be on a commentary. 'Tis confusing me now.

Looks interesting . . .

EllieVee
May 3rd, 2010, 06:49 PM
I'm sure Greer will save the big baby.

I think it would be nice if they could be friends ... or rather, Greer not be so issueful.


http://stargate.mgm.com/view/content/2147/index.html

New Pictures! :):):)

OMG! Franklin! I seriously thought he was dead. And I could have sworn he was said to be on a commentary. 'Tis confusing me now.

Looks interesting . . .

But, Franklin still looks like his brain's buggritted, though. Maybe he carks it during this eppie.

timebandit
May 3rd, 2010, 06:52 PM
I knew Franklin'd be up and around - at least, he will have some information, well I think so anyway.

Hope to see that robot do its thing on destiny. I hope Eli doesn't crack a [bad] R2D2 joke ...

Briangate78
May 3rd, 2010, 07:52 PM
I think I know why PA is upset. After looking at those pics, they just seem, I dunno, not wrong, but not right either. Reminds me of Avatar kinda but to see Wray in that chair paralyzed just seems off to me. I truly hope this takes up very little time in the episode, and they focus more on the plot at hand on the destiny rather than character relationships.

I am predicting a very hostile discussion this friday. I think I am going to go out drinking Friday night and come back to the forums drunk. lol. :p

jelgate
May 3rd, 2010, 07:59 PM
I think I know why PA is upset. After looking at those pics, they just seem, I dunno, not wrong, but not right either. Reminds me of Avatar kinda but to see Wray in that chair paralyzed just seems off to me. I truly hope this takes up very little time in the episode, and they focus more on the plot at hand on the destiny rather than character relationships.

I am predicting a very hostile discussion this friday. I think I am going to go out drinking Friday night and come back to the forums drunk. lol. :pJust don't do what I did last time I was drunk on the forum. I had an argument with a spiderbot for hours

Briangate78
May 3rd, 2010, 08:03 PM
Just don't do what I did last time I was drunk on the forum. I had an argument with a spiderbot for hours

LOL, will keep that in mind.

Anyway, still think the ep will be good with all the stuff happening.

Pharaoh Atem
May 3rd, 2010, 08:05 PM
LOL, will keep that in mind.

Anyway, still think the ep will be good with all the stuff happening.

the aliens will be the only highlight

Briangate78
May 3rd, 2010, 08:07 PM
the aliens will be the only highlight

Also Scott, Chloe, and Eli getting back to Destiny.

Pharaoh Atem
May 3rd, 2010, 08:08 PM
Also Scott, Chloe, and Eli getting back to Destiny.

if it happens this ep

Coronach
May 3rd, 2010, 08:11 PM
I actually am very excited for "Sabotage". Seeing Wray in the wheelchair also reminded me of something. I have to say that Ming-Na has really shown a lot to me so far as an actress. I hadn't really known about her before SGU, but she seems to be taking on a lot of pretty controversial things in her characterization (for lack of a better phrase :rolleyes:). She is a terrific actress to boot, so she really does the character of Wray justice imo.

Unlike others, I'm actually very excited to see the portrayal of Wray in Perry's body in this episode. It'll be a really fascinating portrayal to me and I tend to not think of episodes in black-and-white terms of "Action or drama".

For example, the most recent episode "Lost" was (overall) very well-liked here on the forum and the reactions were positive. Yet this was an episode that had a really great balance between the action/adventure stuff (the lost team and those searching for them) and the "drama" moments (Greer's backstory, TJ's side-story).

I'm not really seeing why people are so concerned about this episode, especially since these same people really liked the balance we saw in "Lost". Though, I guess I understand people being worried that the writers will not strike the balance again a second time in a row. Cynicism was never my thing, though. :P

jelgate
May 3rd, 2010, 08:15 PM
I actually am very excited for "Sabotage". Seeing Wray in the wheelchair also reminded me of something. I have to say that Ming-Na has really shown a lot to me so far as an actress. I hadn't really known about her before SGU, but she seems to be taking on a lot of pretty controversial things in her characterization (for lack of a better phrase :rolleyes:). She is a terrific actress to boot, so she really does the character of Wray justice imo.

Unlike others, I'm actually very excited to see the portrayal of Wray in Perry's body in this episode. It'll be a really fascinating portrayal to me and I tend to not think of episodes in black-and-white terms of "Action or drama".

For example, the most recent episode "Lost" was (overall) very well-liked here on the forum and the reactions were positive. Yet this was an episode that had a really great balance between the action/adventure stuff (the lost team and those searching for them) and the "drama" moments (Greer's backstory, TJ's side-story).

I'm not really seeing why people are so concerned about this episode, especially since these same people really liked the balance we saw in "Lost". Though, I guess I understand people being worried that the writers will not strike the balance again a second time in a row. Cynicism was never my thing, though. :P
They probably remember all the controversery around the quadraphelgic character. Of course I say what I said then. Its being blown out of proportion

PG15
May 3rd, 2010, 08:33 PM
Well, I loved the Wray/Sharon relationship as portrayed in "Life", so for a while I was looking forward to this episode solely because of the return of that.

But after seeing the trailers... :D

SGFerrit
May 3rd, 2010, 08:57 PM
I can't wait to see this episode. I hope it will be of fusion of fantastic drama and emotional scenes, such as those with Wray and Sharon, and great space battles and action. Fingers crossed.

Rhoswen
May 4th, 2010, 03:23 AM
if it happens this ep

The MGM photos for the episode show at least Chloe and Scott on Destiny being examined medically (and I think I also saw the back of Eli's head in one picture?), so it looks like them getting back to Destiny in Sabotage is confirmed.

EllieVee
May 4th, 2010, 03:35 AM
I'm wondering, given Dr Perry (?) is in a wheelchair and in her borrowed body is able to walk around, if she tries to stay.

FoX-1028
May 4th, 2010, 03:52 AM
Looks like The Destiny gate doesnt have an iris/shield too bad.

Jper
May 4th, 2010, 06:07 AM
Stargate.MGM.com 28 promo pics for S01E16 Sabotage.
All are clickable thumbnails from stargate.mgm.com that I've uploaded to my own PB account. :)
Please do not hotlink.
Part1/2



http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv53/JperW/th_large-FullSize-sgu0116-0005xe.jpg (http://s669.photobucket.com/albums/vv53/JperW/large-FullSize-sgu0116-0005xe.jpg)
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Jper
May 4th, 2010, 06:08 AM
Stargate.MGM.com 28 promo pics for S01E16 Sabotage.
All are clickable thumbnails from stargate.mgm.com that I've uploaded to my own PB account. :)
Please do not hotlink.
Part2/2




http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv53/JperW/th_large-FullSize-sgu0116-0327xe.jpg (http://s669.photobucket.com/albums/vv53/JperW/large-FullSize-sgu0116-0327xe.jpg)
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http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv53/JperW/th_large-FullSize-sgu0116-0537xe.jpg (http://s669.photobucket.com/albums/vv53/JperW/large-FullSize-sgu0116-0537xe.jpg)

Spimman
May 4th, 2010, 06:34 AM
I am looking forward to this episode because so much is going to happen.

I cringed a little bit at how many of the photos were dedicated to Wray back on Earth. I would be bored with anyone's life back on Earth because I don't care and it is boring! A few flashbacks are cool to add depth to a character but just another day with her partner, what is this going to add? Boring time!

EvilSpaceAlien
May 4th, 2010, 07:06 AM
I am looking forward to this episode because so much is going to happen.

I cringed a little bit at how many of the photos were dedicated to Wray back on Earth. I would be bored with anyone's life back on Earth because I don't care and it is boring! A few flashbacks are cool to add depth to a character but just another day with her partner, what is this going to add? Boring time!

It's Reiko Aylesworth for gods sake! There can never be too many pictures of Reiko or Ming-Na! :P

Spimman
May 4th, 2010, 07:26 AM
I'm more concerned with how much time in the episode will be spent on this encounter. If it wants to show a little bit of the visit I don't have a problem with that, even though I would prefer it not be included at all. My only concern was that so many of the pictures cover them and so I hope that doesn't imply the episode will cover them a lot as well.

My hope is that they didn't release too many pictures of the aliens or other stuff because they would reveal important parts of the episode and so the pictures actually aren't much of an indicator at all!

Briangate78
May 4th, 2010, 07:28 AM
It's Reiko Aylesworth for gods sake! There can never be too many pictures of Reiko or Ming-Na! :P

I am just waiting for Carlos Bernard to show up. :p

reddevil18
May 4th, 2010, 07:30 AM
I am just waiting for Carlos Bernard to show up. :pI'll second that. He can be Sharon's college boyfriend and he's all pissed now.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 4th, 2010, 07:48 AM
......
I am predicting a very hostile discussion this friday. I think I am going to go out drinking Friday night and come back to the forums drunk. lol. :p*digs out the earplugs and limbers up the typing fingers, all two of them, for the onslaught of craziness to come*
Now what to wear...should I be the voice of reason, or unleash a torrent of teh crazy?


Just don't do what I did last time I was drunk on the forum. I had an argument with a spiderbot for hours*howls*


Also Scott, Chloe, and Eli getting back to Destiny.

if it happens this ep
MGM pics of the episode have them on the ship, so they get back somehow, that should prove fascinating


They probably remember all the controversery around the quadraphelgic character. Of course I say what I said then. Its being blown out of proportionpeople don't still do that, do they? *grins evilly*

Having Wray out and about, loose, possibly flapping her gums, makes me nervous. How about you?

MattSilver 3k
May 4th, 2010, 07:49 AM
I am just waiting for Carlos Bernard to show up. :p

Tony Almeida: So badass, he broke out of prison, crossed realities and killed his alternate wife's girlfriend and turned her straight... ALL IN TWENTY-FOUR HOURS.

Briangate78
May 4th, 2010, 07:49 AM
I'll second that. He can be Sharon's college boyfriend and he's all pissed now.

Tony Almedia is back!! I'm still waiting for Keifer to make an apperance with LDP, and then they can get Emilo to have a Young Guns reunion on the Destiny. :p

Spimman
May 4th, 2010, 07:56 AM
...Young Guns reunion on the Destiny. :p
"We regulate any stealing of his property and we d*** good too
But you can't be any geek off the street,
Gotta be handy with the steel if you know what I mean,
earn your keep...Regulators! Mount up!"

reddevil18
May 4th, 2010, 08:06 AM
Tony Almeida: So badass, he broke out of prison, crossed realities and killed his alternate wife's girlfriend and turned her straight... ALL IN TWENTY-FOUR HOURS.Nah. He only needs 12 for that. The other 12 were spent...err, reaffirming her sexuality. :weiranime42:

Briangate78
May 4th, 2010, 08:17 AM
Nah. He only needs 12 for that. The other 12 were spent...err, reaffirming her sexuality. :weiranime42:

Chuck Norris can do it in an hour. :p

reddevil18
May 4th, 2010, 08:24 AM
Chuck Norris can do it in an hour. :pUgh. I hate Chuck Norris.

EvilSpaceAlien
May 4th, 2010, 09:00 AM
Chuck Norris can do it in an hour. :p

Only to be killed by Greer five minutes later.

FoX-1028
May 4th, 2010, 11:51 AM
YESSSSS!! I was waiting for this episode!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZcJw67tHCQ
Sneak Peek *SPOILERS
THEY ARE COMING!

jelgate
May 4th, 2010, 12:09 PM
YESSSSS!! I was waiting for this episode!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZcJw67tHCQ
Sneak Peek *SPOILERS
THEY ARE COMING!

That cutoff was just jerkness:(

Briangate78
May 4th, 2010, 12:11 PM
That cutoff was just jerkness:(

It's going be Chloe, Eli, and Scott that come out of the gate at that time.

Spimman
May 4th, 2010, 12:15 PM
I think you're right Brian.

If that is the case than I guess they don't return until after or during the expected attack from the Blue Aliens since everyone is being bandaged up and the body swap has already taken place. They may not return until closer to the end.

jelgate
May 4th, 2010, 12:16 PM
It's going be Chloe, Eli, and Scott that come out of the gate at that time.

Speculation or have you been seeing advanced screenings again?

If

TENTHIUS
May 4th, 2010, 12:17 PM
Brian: Just asking, Did you see that episode?
And more importantly
When are the Smurfs supposed to come if not this time?

jelgate
May 4th, 2010, 12:19 PM
Brian: Just asking, Did you see that episode?
And more importantly
When are the Smurfs supposed to come if not this time?
Tags aren't really nesscarry since the title warns of spoilers

Spimman
May 4th, 2010, 12:20 PM
Especially considering that a question is being asked and no confirmed information is being revealed.

Briangate78
May 4th, 2010, 12:24 PM
I have not seen the episode yet, I am speculating from the photos I saw on MGM. :)

MattSilver 3k
May 4th, 2010, 12:27 PM
I'm gonna say it's our away team coming home? Why? Misdirection. Ratchet up the tension, and then BAM! It's our team. Then, if the gate dials again, there's no uncertainty - it's the aliens. A little anticlimactic, but whatever.