PDA

View Full Version : how? (Questions about wormholes & gate travel)



Rezukien
December 10th, 2004, 10:50 AM
There are several things that puzzle me about gate travel:

1. If a planet e.g. Earth dialled a wormhole to an other planet e.g. Abydos then could someone from Abydos come through to earth while that wormhole is active? you never see anyone doing this (if this was possible then they would also not leave the MALP on the surface of the other planet before sending through SG1......or at least return it before closing down the wormhole) and technically it shouldn’t work because if two people gated at other ends at the same time their molecules would get all screwed up therefore leading me to believe that the stargate is a one way device. Unfortunately this cannot be completely true as radio waves could pass through the gate from both Earth and Abydos.

2. My next query also concerns radio waves, the theory behind the iris is that it is flush with the event horizon (correct me if im wrong) therefore not allowing matter to reform on the other side of the gate therefore allowing nothing to pass into Earth. If this is the case then how can radio waves and signals such as the iris codes be sent back through the stargate when the iris is in place? Possibly the waves in both instances react in such a way that is different than other forms of matter in a way which allows these things to happen.

3. Again this concerns the iris and put simply when the gate is activated its bursts outwards (destroying whatever it touches.......used in Jaffa funerals) so why does this not destroy the iris (also about the iris, whenever the gate is activated offworld the iris is open to begin with and then closed by the chevron guy before the wormhole is established but why not just leave the iris closed because if it jammed before it was fully shut then Earth would be vulnerable.....plus why don’t they send a signal back to the SG teams in order to let them know its safe to come through after opening the iris as it may have jammed as they try to open it which would unfortunately kill that team(and about the chevron guy.....does he not sleep or something because every single time there’s an "unauthorised offworld activation" he is there lol)).

Hope un still reading........id have given up by now lol

4. Finally in the Atlantis episode "thirty eight minutes" in which the puddle jumper gets jammed in the orbital stargate they say that an object will not emerge from the other side of the wormhole before it is fully through the first side but would this not contradict what happened to Earnest in SG1 episode "the torment of Tantalus" in which he is inside a diving suit which is connected to a tube which is still sticking into the gate when it is closed down, yet he emerges on the other side of the gate.

Im also unsure why everyone speaks English and why when anyone travelled thought the gate to begin with they were all cold and icy but not anymore but I know that if they spent most of the episode learning a new language it would be kind of rubbish and it would take ages before anything happened and that it would be awkward making everything icy every single time the gate was used so I wont bother with those questions......ive asked enough already id say lol!

mammon
December 10th, 2004, 11:37 AM
There are several things that puzzle me about gate travel:

1. If a planet e.g. Earth dialled a wormhole to an other planet e.g. Abydos then could someone from Abydos come through to earth while that wormhole is active? you never see anyone doing this (if this was possible then they would also not leave the MALP on the surface of the other planet before sending through SG1......or at least return it before closing down the wormhole) and technically it shouldn’t work because if two people gated at other ends at the same time their molecules would get all screwed up therefore leading me to believe that the stargate is a one way device. Unfortunately this cannot be completely true as radio waves could pass through the gate from both Earth and Abydos.

2. My next query also concerns radio waves, the theory behind the iris is that it is flush with the event horizon (correct me if im wrong) therefore not allowing matter to reform on the other side of the gate therefore allowing nothing to pass into Earth. If this is the case then how can radio waves and signals such as the iris codes be sent back through the stargate when the iris is in place? Possibly the waves in both instances react in such a way that is different than other forms of matter in a way which allows these things to happen.

3. Again this concerns the iris and put simply when the gate is activated its bursts outwards (destroying whatever it touches.......used in Jaffa funerals) so why does this not destroy the iris (also about the iris, whenever the gate is activated offworld the iris is open to begin with and then closed by the chevron guy before the wormhole is established but why not just leave the iris closed because if it jammed before it was fully shut then Earth would be vulnerable.....plus why don’t they send a signal back to the SG teams in order to let them know its safe to come through after opening the iris as it may have jammed as they try to open it which would unfortunately kill that team(and about the chevron guy.....does he not sleep or something because every single time there’s an "unauthorised offworld activation" he is there lol)).

Hope un still reading........id have given up by now lol

4. Finally in the Atlantis episode "thirty eight minutes" in which the puddle jumper gets jammed in the orbital stargate they say that an object will not emerge from the other side of the wormhole before it is fully through the first side but would this not contradict what happened to Earnest in SG1 episode "the torment of Tantalus" in which he is inside a diving suit which is connected to a tube which is still sticking into the gate when it is closed down, yet he emerges on the other side of the gate.

Im also unsure why everyone speaks English and why when anyone travelled thought the gate to begin with they were all cold and icy but not anymore but I know that if they spent most of the episode learning a new language it would be kind of rubbish and it would take ages before anything happened and that it would be awkward making everything icy every single time the gate was used so I wont bother with those questions......ive asked enough already id say lol!

well this is what i think:

1) i think that the stargate will turn matter to energy when matter is in the gate and when passed to the other side of the gate the stargate will turn the energy back to matter.. and if i am correct then stargate can take only to one way at a time cos the moving energy would get mixed and that would be kinda bad.. and i guess radiowaves don't get mixed..

2) radiowave can pass solid object such as the iris as easily as most types of radiation also can..

3) maybe there is some matter that is strong enough to withstand the burst.. so don't know for sure.. maybe they do send some peeping sound for them but it can't be heard in the series..

4) i can't remember the episode "The Torment Of Tantalus" so can't answer..

i guess everybody speaks english just cos it is a tv-show and it would be kinda stupid to create a new language for every civilization.. and maybe they all were cold in the beginning but then they started to become used to it so they weren't cold anymore..

Watters87
December 10th, 2004, 11:47 AM
3. The Iris is so close to the Event Horizon that it stops the Kawoosh effect from forming. :)

4. Maybe they passed the 38 minute mark and the gate shut itself off automatically :)

Rezukien
December 10th, 2004, 11:51 AM
4. Maybe they passed the 38 minute mark and the gate shut itself off automatically :)
its not why it shut down what im confused about but why he emerged on the other side at all because he was inside a suit which was not filly through

Rezukien
December 10th, 2004, 11:55 AM
well this is what i think:

1) i think that the stargate will turn matter to energy when matter is in the gate and when passed to the other side of the gate the stargate will turn the energy back to matter.. and if i am correct then stargate can take only to one way at a time cos the moving energy would get mixed and that would be kinda bad.. and i guess radiowaves don't get mixed..

2) radiowave can pass solid object such as the iris as easily as most types of radiation also can..

3) maybe there is some matter that is strong enough to withstand the burst.. so don't know for sure.. maybe they do send some peeping sound for them but it can't be heard in the series..

4) i can't remember the episode "The Torment Of Tantalus" so can't answer..

i guess everybody speaks english just cos it is a tv-show and it would be kinda stupid to create a new language for every civilization.. and maybe they all were cold in the beginning but then they started to become used to it so they weren't cold anymore..
as for the readio waves passing through the iris, obviously they could but there would be no waves to pass through as they would not form on the Earth side.....it is puzzling

and as for the cold, i think it was just to give the effects team a break, cos any time a character who has never used the gate before travels through there not icy......it just makes things easier i think.

Hatcheter
December 10th, 2004, 12:36 PM
Radio waves and other forms of electromagnetic energy have no mass or volume, so they do not have to be disassembled and reintegrated. IMO, they flow through the wormhole no differently then they would normal space, so they go both ways, unlike matter.

VirtualCLD
December 10th, 2004, 01:36 PM
Pretty much, everyone has answered the questions, so I'll jsut re-sum them up again... cause I'm bored :D . Major 100 Days Spoilers




1) Matter can only travel one way through a wormhole, from the outgoing end to the incoming end. This has been established since the first episode and has been repeated several times throughout the series. As in the ep 100 Days, a the stargate was lying down, facing up and when a MALP was sent through it came out of the stargate, then proceeded to fall back into the stargate (thanks to the whole gravity thing) and was imedeately desintegrated forever and destroyed.

2) The stargate is actually two devices (well maybe more) in one. There is one part that creates the wormhole and another part that converts matter to energey and vice versa. Radiowaves are just one form of radiation or radio frequency energy. They do not have any matter, therefore, the stargate doesn't have to convert them to or from anything. One theory is that the stargates matter to energy converter is what prevents matter from going back AND forth through an active wormhole. There are saftey protocols that prevent any conflicts from occuring, say, someone enters one end of a wormhole just as someone else is arriving in that same spot. The stargate takes care of this by simply and permenently dissasembling the object that is entering the wrong way.

The only problem with the radio waves and radiation vs matter theory is, light is another form of RF and so, light should be able to so back and forth through the stargate (i.e. see through the stargate). Some may say, well, the event horrizon interferes with the light and refracts it, but then I would say, radio waves and other radiation should also be interfered with and distorted by the EH (event horrizon) since they're the same thing as light.


3) That's always been a grey area as well. One theory states that the kawoosh you see is made up of particles (and hence particles have mass) that harm/destroy anything that is in it's path. In theory, the iris is so close to the EH that it won't allow any matter/particls to form. Therefore, the destructive kawosh can not form, hence the destructive particles don't have a chance to form and flush sideways destroying anything in there path.

Again, going back to 100 Days (this episode dove into the gray area of stargate head first), the stargate was burried by the meteor impact while it was still active, therefore the EH was still there, keeping a thin layer of space in the middle of the stargate open. This allowed for the EH to form, but with the solid rock being so close to the EH, the particles couldn't form, ergo, no destructive kawoosh. (This was before the MALP went through). Now the grey area here is that they opened a wormhole to the burried stargate and melted the rock with a huge beam of energy. According to Carter, this would allow the stargate's kawoosh to form a bubblein the melted rock, suggesting that the solid rock (I think it was enriched with naquada) wouldn't be destroyed by the kawoosh, but the melted rock was "weak" enough to be destroyed by the kawoosh. My theory is that, as the rock melted, it dripped back into the stargate where it was disentegrated, alllowing for enough space for the destructive kawoosh to form. It was after they had formed the bubble that they sent a MALP through, which then fell back into the stargate and they found out the stargate was lying down, facing up.

It was after that, they sent Teal'c through by shooting a rope with a steel grapling head through the stargate, allowing him to climb up and avoid falling back into the EH as soon as he appeared on the other side. This brings us to question 4.

4) If the stargate only sends objects through in discrete (whole) ammounts, then, theoretically, as Teal'c pulled himself through the stargate with the rope, he should never have appeared through the other side as he was clipped to the rope with a repelling clamp. The same thing with with Earnest Littlefield in Torment of Tantalus. I guess one theory is that stargate treated the PJ (puddlejumper) as one whole unit, inclusing everything inside it. Since Teal'c and Earnest were not inside the rope or tube respectively, and since the rope or tube were not a part of their bodies, they could go through just fine. Since everyone was in side the PJ, then they all went, or no one went through at all. Another stragne property of the stargate is the ability to suspend things in the EH. When Thor's stasis box went through, as soon as it entered the EH, it was suspended on it's own.

5) It's just a TV show. Actually, TPTB have said they can't afford to spend the first half of the show just trying to have the characters "learn" a new language, so we just assume they can understand eachother.
Same idea witht he whole icy/cold thing as stated earlier. However, if you want a more technical answer with the cold, think of it as having been fixed when they did the whole address correction thing using the Abydos addresses AND eliminating the feedback from the Antarctic gate when they installed energy dampers (at the time, they didn't know about the other gate, they just wanted to get rid of the tremors whenever the gate was used). (Runs off screaming: AHHHH!!!! Poles in the right half of the j omega plane!!! Noooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!! Positive feedback in the system, VERY BAD!!! We're all going to die!!!!!)

Well, I had the effort to read through your questions, so hopefully you'll have the effor to read through my answers.... I know I don't. :D

alz0rz
December 10th, 2004, 01:43 PM
they do send a signals back to the sg teams... watch Endgame and about the radio.. radio waves are massless so they dont need to be desintigrated - alot of these questions have been answered - use the search function since I see your new to the forums :o

Rezukien
December 10th, 2004, 04:15 PM
Pretty much, everyone has answered the questions, so I'll jsut re-sum them up again... cause I'm bored :D . Major 100 Days Spoilers




1) Matter can only travel one way through a wormhole, from the outgoing end to the incoming end. This has been established since the first episode and has been repeated several times throughout the series. As in the ep 100 Days, a the stargate was lying down, facing up and when a MALP was sent through it came out of the stargate, then proceeded to fall back into the stargate (thanks to the whole gravity thing) and was imedeately desintegrated forever and destroyed.

2) The stargate is actually two devices (well maybe more) in one. There is one part that creates the wormhole and another part that converts matter to energey and vice versa. Radiowaves are just one form of radiation or radio frequency energy. They do not have any matter, therefore, the stargate doesn't have to convert them to or from anything. One theory is that the stargates matter to energy converter is what prevents matter from going back AND forth through an active wormhole. There are saftey protocols that prevent any conflicts from occuring, say, someone enters one end of a wormhole just as someone else is arriving in that same spot. The stargate takes care of this by simply and permenently dissasembling the object that is entering the wrong way.

The only problem with the radio waves and radiation vs matter theory is, light is another form of RF and so, light should be able to so back and forth through the stargate (i.e. see through the stargate). Some may say, well, the event horrizon interferes with the light and refracts it, but then I would say, radio waves and other radiation should also be interfered with and distorted by the EH (event horrizon) since they're the same thing as light.


3) That's always been a grey area as well. One theory states that the kawoosh you see is made up of particles (and hence particles have mass) that harm/destroy anything that is in it's path. In theory, the iris is so close to the EH that it won't allow any matter/particls to form. Therefore, the destructive kawosh can not form, hence the destructive particles don't have a chance to form and flush sideways destroying anything in there path.

Again, going back to 100 Days (this episode dove into the gray area of stargate head first), the stargate was burried by the meteor impact while it was still active, therefore the EH was still there, keeping a thin layer of space in the middle of the stargate open. This allowed for the EH to form, but with the solid rock being so close to the EH, the particles couldn't form, ergo, no destructive kawoosh. (This was before the MALP went through). Now the grey area here is that they opened a wormhole to the burried stargate and melted the rock with a huge beam of energy. According to Carter, this would allow the stargate's kawoosh to form a bubblein the melted rock, suggesting that the solid rock (I think it was enriched with naquada) wouldn't be destroyed by the kawoosh, but the melted rock was "weak" enough to be destroyed by the kawoosh. My theory is that, as the rock melted, it dripped back into the stargate where it was disentegrated, alllowing for enough space for the destructive kawoosh to form. It was after they had formed the bubble that they sent a MALP through, which then fell back into the stargate and they found out the stargate was lying down, facing up.

It was after that, they sent Teal'c through by shooting a rope with a steel grapling head through the stargate, allowing him to climb up and avoid falling back into the EH as soon as he appeared on the other side. This brings us to question 4.

4) If the stargate only sends objects through in discrete (whole) ammounts, then, theoretically, as Teal'c pulled himself through the stargate with the rope, he should never have appeared through the other side as he was clipped to the rope with a repelling clamp. The same thing with with Earnest Littlefield in Torment of Tantalus. I guess one theory is that stargate treated the PJ (puddlejumper) as one whole unit, inclusing everything inside it. Since Teal'c and Earnest were not inside the rope or tube respectively, and since the rope or tube were not a part of their bodies, they could go through just fine. Since everyone was in side the PJ, then they all went, or no one went through at all. Another stragne property of the stargate is the ability to suspend things in the EH. When Thor's stasis box went through, as soon as it entered the EH, it was suspended on it's own.

5) It's just a TV show. Actually, TPTB have said they can't afford to spend the first half of the show just trying to have the characters "learn" a new language, so we just assume they can understand eachother.
Same idea witht he whole icy/cold thing as stated earlier. However, if you want a more technical answer with the cold, think of it as having been fixed when they did the whole address correction thing using the Abydos addresses AND eliminating the feedback from the Antarctic gate when they installed energy dampers (at the time, they didn't know about the other gate, they just wanted to get rid of the tremors whenever the gate was used). (Runs off screaming: AHHHH!!!! Poles in the right half of the j omega plane!!! Noooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!! Positive feedback in the system, VERY BAD!!! We're all going to die!!!!!)

Well, I had the effort to read through your questions, so hopefully you'll have the effor to read through my answers.... I know I don't. :D
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

i wasnt realy askin bout the launguage thing as i know it would overcomplicate things too much but thx for answering it anyway lol

as for earnest, the tube was part of the suit and he was inside the suit in the same way that the atlantis members were in the pj (both designed for life support and so fully sealed) bu id say the best thing to do would be to assume that the suit and tube were not counted as a single object otherwise we will never come up with an answer........but once again thank you thank you thank you!

Replicarter
December 10th, 2004, 04:22 PM
The reason why everyone speacks english, is because the Ancients created language nanites which get put in your brain when you go through the gate, they created english to be a universal language so they did lots of things to make it develop and make it be the most used language, but because of the amount of people on earth, and not all using the gate or being around Ancient technologies, parts of earth dident develop english.

Rezukien
December 10th, 2004, 04:35 PM
then why didnt the abidonians speak english in the movie?

Replicarter
December 11th, 2004, 03:17 AM
Why was ra a full size alien in the move? Why wasent there a dhd? Why was abydos on the other side of the known universe in the move, when its the closest planet in the series?

Mio
December 11th, 2004, 03:38 AM
As for the Torment of Tantalus, there are two reasons that, when working together, contributed to Earnest's demise.


A) The DHD on the planet was destroyed, preventing it from trying to fix the problem.

B) The Stargate on our end wasn't hooked to a DHD either, probably causing irregular functionality on both ends, as the DHD is where most of the safeguards are programmed. It's possible that without a DHD on our end, the single packet safeguard isn't strictly enforced.

Rezukien
December 11th, 2004, 12:30 PM
that would make sence so since theres no better explination lets go with that - thx ;)

jonno
June 15th, 2005, 04:47 PM
What happens if you walk into the back of the stargate (ie the opposite side to the kawoosh) ... suggestions anyone?

PrimalAscended
June 15th, 2005, 05:00 PM
You get disintegrated by the event horizon but not sent into the wormhole..........so you die......not a good idea trying it ;)

6thMonolith
June 15th, 2005, 05:14 PM
Big huge thread about that in the Tech folder.

O'Neills_Brother
August 5th, 2008, 09:28 PM
Hi,

I might be opening a can of worms or wormholes here!! ...LOL

If gate travel can be in two directions at once then maybe the line between the two stargates could be like a fibre optic cable allowing more than object to pass and the objects get converted into different frequencies of light or other radiofrequencies like microwave energy in both directions.

By the way more than one person can pass through at the same time one way so how come their energy patterns don't get mixed up??

Light has photon particles and I guess photons have some weight, how else would light not be able to escape a black hole? In other words light must have some mass I guess to be attracted to a black hole.

Besides why discuss the "theoretical" physics of it all.

It is just a T.V. show that for some is an escape from this reality here on earth.

For lots of people Sci-Fi shows are "escapism", as well as being enjoyable, so just go and ENJOY.




Catch ya later.

David O'Neill

:jack_new_anime25:

DaMulta
August 5th, 2008, 09:35 PM
Ancients created language nanites?????

Myles
August 5th, 2008, 10:01 PM
Ancients created language nanites?????

It's not cannon, just how one of the produces(Joe Mallozzi) said he rationalizes it. There's no official reason for why everyone speaks English. It's just understood it would be far too difficult to have everyone speak different languages.