Ancients Uncovered - spoliers

[sppeters]

This thread is for those who can prove their theories, not just spout wild assumptions about the Ancients. It will contain spoilers as refrence's may be used. Read only if spoliers are not a personal issue.

The Ancients are at least 50+ million years old, Antarctic Stargate was presumed to be this old.

The Ancients most likely did not evolve originally on earth, 65 million years = Dinosaurs, 15 million years after Dinosaurs the Earth was too primitive to sustain Human style Evolution.

The Ancients left our galaxy for pegasus post galactic palgue. Ayiana had plague and she had been in the ice since just after the ancients left originally. In rising Daniel says "we know the Ancients on earth were suffering from a plague." They HAD THE PLAGUE BEFORE THEY LEFT!!! just to clarify.

They encountered the Wraith in the Pegasus Galaxy, and ended up at war with them. While it is an assumption it is possible that the wraith can not feed on the ancients, ancient gene prevents it, or natural healing ability. Why would the wraith try to wipe out their food supply unless they weren't food.

As for Ascention it is still unclear if the ancients ascended before or after their return to earth. Chya/Athar seems to have ascended before the Ancients left pegasus, yet in both rising and before I sleep the ancients returnto earth mortals.

In a previous thread I stated that there were 2 types of ancients; the seeders (ie ancients) and the seeded (ie human). This is supported now by the fact that in hot zone when a viral agent is released in the city those who we discover are imune are people possesing the ancient gene, if it is the case that this is "the ancient plague". Then the seeders were never in threat but the early seeded humans, who if they weren't wiped out would be ancient compared to us, were the ancients who were wiped out, and it is a misconception that the plague was effeting all ancients.

It was with Stargate originally that the movie and episodes were derived from mythology, as well that the premis behind Atlantis was based of Platos account of the story. Having studied myth one can see there is a similarity between Platos Atlantis and Homers Troy from the Illiad. If you know your Illiad then when compared to Stargate Atlantis similarities begin appearing. For example:
Impenitrable wall= force field around city
Plague Threatening Trojans= Plague of Ancients
Trojan Delagation sent to Greece= Atlantian delegation sent to Wraith (sa115)

these are just some key issues to discuss, Please add more. PLEASE BE INFORMED IF DEBATING SOMETHING.

[Alpha17X]

The Ancients are at least 50+ million years old, Antarctic Stargate was presumed to be this old.

The Ancients most likely did not evolve originally on earth, 65 million years = Dinosaurs, 15 million years after Dinosaurs the Earth was too primitive to sustain Human style Evolution.

>> If it could evolve dinosaurs it could evolve humans/ancients. Theres no reason for it not to be able to. Life is life. My theory is that the ancients evolved and became moderately technological before the dinosaurs started getting huge.

The Ancients left our galaxy for pegasus post galactic palgue. Ayiana had plague and she had been in the ice since just after the ancients left originally. In rising Daniel says "we know the Ancients on earth were suffering from a plague." They HAD THE PLAGUE BEFORE THEY LEFT!!! just to clarify.

They encountered the Wraith in the Pegasus Galaxy, and ended up at war with them. While it is an assumption it is possible that the wraith can not feed on the ancients, ancient gene prevents it, or natural healing ability. Why would the wraith try to wipe out their food supply unless they weren't food.

>> I don't think there was any evidence that the wraith couldn't feed on an ancient, unless I missed it. although the anals of the curator on the official website (which does count as post episodic cannon) the keeper says that the wraith thought of the ancients on an equal level, while the less evolved form was thought of as livestalk.


As for Ascention it is still unclear if the ancients ascended before or after their return to earth. Chya/Athar seems to have ascended before the Ancients left pegasus, yet in both rising and before I sleep the ancients returnto earth mortals.

>> More than likely they ascended at different times. My idea is that Oma Desala and a few of the earth area ancients ascended before atlantis left. some ascended in the pegasus galaxy afterwards. and some more ascended after returning to earth. No reason for them to all do it at once.

In a previous thread I stated that there were 2 types of ancients; the seeders (ie ancients) and the seeded (ie human). This is supported now by the fact that in hot zone when a viral agent is released in the city those who we discover are imune are people possesing the ancient gene, if it is the case that this is "the ancient plague". Then the seeders were never in threat but the early seeded humans, who if they weren't wiped out would be ancient compared to us, were the ancients who were wiped out, and it is a misconception that the plague was effeting all ancients.

It was with Stargate originally that the movie and episodes were derived from mythology, as well that the premis behind Atlantis was based of Platos account of the story. Having studied myth one can see there is a similarity between Platos Atlantis and Homers Troy from the Illiad. If you know your Illiad then when compared to Stargate Atlantis similarities begin appearing. For example:
Impenitrable wall= force field around city
Plague Threatening Trojans= Plague of Ancients
Trojan Delagation sent to Greece= Atlantian delegation sent to Wraith (sa115)

these are just some key issues to discuss, Please add more. PLEASE BE INFORMED IF DEBATING SOMETHING.

[sppeters]

If it could evolve dinosaurs it could evolve humans/ancients. Theres no reason for it not to be able to. Life is life. My theory is that the ancients evolved and became moderately technological before the dinosaurs started getting huge.

Unfortunatly It is not as simple as life is life, after the dinosaurs were wiped out only basic rodent style mammals and because the planet surface was wiped of all lager forms of life. If the Ancients did evolve on earth their evolution would have been extremely rushed, evolution from such a small life form to something our size takes time.

[spg_1983]

The Ancients left our galaxy for pegasus post galactic palgue. Ayiana had plague and she had been in the ice since just after the ancients left originally. In rising Daniel says "we know the Ancients on earth were suffering from a plague." They HAD THE PLAGUE BEFORE THEY LEFT!!! just to clarify.
.

there is no evidence that the ancients took the plague to pegasus with them. yes aiyana had a disease when she was unfrozen but A. we have no way of knowing that this is the disease that killed the ancients and B. we have no evidence of when she got it. who knows what she did between atlantis leaving and being frozen?
the hologram of the ancient lady said in Rising that they went to pegasus because they detected a new galaxy with no life in it. no mention of the plague. you cant assume they had the plague before they left because we have no direct evidence of it.

[Gothann]

They encountered the Wraith in the Pegasus Galaxy, and ended up at war with them. While it is an assumption it is possible that the wraith can not feed on the ancients, ancient gene prevents it, or natural healing ability. Why would the wraith try to wipe out their food supply unless they weren't food.

Spoiler:

As of The Defiant One, it is known that the Wraith could feed on Ancients, only they didn't have many chances at doing so, with the Ancients fighting until death rather than be eaten. Unless stunned and captured, Atlanteans wouldn't have let the Wraith feed on them.

[aAnubiSs]

Well if being captured for torture snapping your own neck is quite easy to do.

[sppeters]

there is no evidence that the ancients took the plague to pegasus with them. yes aiyana had a disease when she was unfrozen but A. we have no way of knowing that this is the disease that killed the ancients and B. we have no evidence of when she got it. who knows what she did between atlantis leaving and being frozen?
the hologram of the ancient lady said in Rising that they went to pegasus because they detected a new galaxy with no life in it. no mention of the plague. you cant assume they had the plague before they left because we have no direct evidence of it.

So you are by your own admitance Aiyana had a disease, and just to reinterate Daniel says "we know the ancients on earth were suffering from a plague" what other plague could he possibly mean... he even says WE KNOW and since the ancients are only know as having ONE plague logically it would be the plague that threatened all life in the galaxy. As for the lady in the hologram she didn't seem to be suffering from a plague when the ancients returned to Earth 10,000 years ago (ie. in Before I sleep) which means that they had already been cured of it. Because if they returned with it all life in our galaxy would have been wiped out on their arrival.

[catscan]

Because if they returned with it all life in our galaxy would have been wiped out on their arrival.

No, not if it was...

Spoiler:

nanotech virus from "Hot Zone". That only attacked those with the ancient gene, meaning that the Milkyway was pretty safe. It is safe to assume, that they caught it, since it was in a containment field, and that what was left of the Ancients actually made it back to Earth.

I believe it's been mentioned a few times, that the Ancients had been experimenting with something called "ascension". Do we even know if

Spoiler:

Chaya from "Sanctuary" ascended when? Before or after the Atlantians went back in "Before I Sleep"?

There's just too many gaps at the moment still.

[AsgardCarnage]

No, not if it was...

Spoiler:

nanotech virus from "Hot Zone". That only attacked those with the ancient gene, meaning that the Milkyway was pretty safe. It is safe to assume, that they caught it, since it was in a containment field, and that what was left of the Ancients actually made it back to Earth.

Spoiler:

actully the virus didn't attack the people with the gene u have it backward, so if it did get back to the Milkyway it would kill millions

yay a whole post in spoilers

[Ancients Rising]

Unfortunatly It is not as simple as life is life, after the dinosaurs were wiped out only basic rodent style mammals and because the planet surface was wiped of all lager forms of life. If the Ancients did evolve on earth their evolution would have been extremely rushed, evolution from such a small life form to something our size takes time.

Yes it is actually as simple as life is life. Dinosaurs evolved from small lizards

Creatures adapt to change in climate and the ecosystem very quickly or very slowly, it is all totally random. Mutations are mutations, you could hit the jackpot with the very first mutation or never hit it in a billion.

15 million years is a very very very long time. We cannot comprehend how long that is since our lifespans are so insignificant in the bigger picture.

It is entirely plausible that the Ancients evolved on Earth. Nevertheless it all remains conjecture. We just don't know.

However I am of the opinion they did evolve on Earth because they call it home.

[spg_1983]

So you are by your own admitance Aiyana had a disease, and just to reinterate Daniel says "we know the ancients on earth were suffering from a plague" what other plague could he possibly mean... he even says WE KNOW and since the ancients are only know as having ONE plague logically it would be the plague that threatened all life in the galaxy. As for the lady in the hologram she didn't seem to be suffering from a plague when the ancients returned to Earth 10,000 years ago (ie. in Before I sleep) which means that they had already been cured of it. Because if they returned with it all life in our galaxy would have been wiped out on their arrival.

yes aiyana had a disease when she was unfrozen. how'd she get it? when did she get it? how does dainel know? one person being sick means that every ancient on earth was sick and dying? aiyana didnt look sick at the begining of rising. just because aiyana woke up with a disease doesnt mean she had it when atlantis left. do you know what she did after atlantis left? do we even know why she was left behind? yoiu cant jump to the conclusion that all the atlanteans were diseased just because the person they left behind was. maybe she got it after they left. maybe she did have it before they left and they left her behind to keep from infecting atlantis. you have no proof that the ancients in atlantis were diseased, only the ancients left in this galaxy is there proof of having a disease

[catscan]

Spoiler:

actully the virus didn't attack the people with the gene u have it backward, so if it did get back to the Milkyway it would kill millions

yay a whole post in spoilers

Yeah, you're right, I did get it backwards...

Spoiler:

yet, that wasn't clearly the plague then. And they pretty much said, those who weren't affected, didn't carry it either, so unless the Ancients wanted to kill everyone in the Milkyway, why would they had brought it?

I still believe the plague that hampered the Ancients, may very well had been the Wraith. A plague can be refered too as a destructively numerous influx, ie a plague of locusts. The Wraith SURELY fit that description. There's too many holes, at the moment to really say. There's no proof that Aiyana had that plague before they left, and we know that the Ancients came back to Earth, when fleeing Atlantis.(besides, if that WAS the plague, why was it so deadly? She could heal it, what's to say that the other Ancients couldn't as well? That doesn't seem to add weight to it being a deadly plague)

They also left behind a plague that nearly wiped them out, didn't they?

Spoiler:

In "Before I Sleep" the Ancients do mention, being able to take the Wraith on, when things were equal... but there's a lot more of the wraith. We can protect crops from locusts, until a plague of them come, and there's no saving those crops.

So that's why I will continue to believe that the plague the ancients suffered were the Wraith, and not a sickness.

[sppeters]

The reason why it seems unlikely that the Wraith were the PLAGUE is because of the speech between daniel and jack in rising:

Jack: So why'd they leave?
Daniel: Who knows, we know the ancients on earth were suffering from a plague...

thus they had the plague BEFORE ("why'd they leave") they left.

Now mabey the wraith were a second plague, but they are not the plague that the ancients of earth suffered which is also the one which nearly wiped out all life in our galaxy.

And until rising we didn't even know that the ancients returned to earth 10,000 years ago. Nor what happened after they left earth 5-10million years ago, with the one exception of "a great city which sank beneath the sea".

[AscendedAncient]

The Ancients had time travel technology.. thats the ULTIMATE beat-all technology! just go back in time to when there were no wraith and make sure it remains that way. go back in time and stop the plague form every happening. The possibilities are endless.. why would anyone in their right minds fight and LOSE a war when they can go back and finish the wraith off when they hadnt even evolved? its impossible to defeat someone with itmetravel tech.
also, in "before i sleep" the timeship works beautifully, however in sg1 we saw that the ancients had made a time-loop and not a proper time travel device.
thughts on this ppl?

[rhade]

The information about the Ancients have been inconsistent at best. Acension was used as an escape from the plague for at least some of them while others from Atlantis seeded Pegasus between two million years up to as recently as 10,000 years ago. This means that the writers will have to take the ideas about this race and adapt them. In the 5th race where we first get exposed to the Ancients it seems they existed in the houndred of thousands of years prior. The building in that episode seemed old but not millions of years old since it would of long turned into dust by that time. The Asgard were of said to have been more human like only 30 thousand years ago. With the facts about the Ancients in "Before I Sleep" it seems that there was a time when both the Ancients and the 2nd generation of humanity existed in parallel. There are many issues that need to be addressed. I don't know if they can all be brought into harmony but it will be sure fun seeing what they they reveal next.