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View Full Version : Could a Dollhouse Employee Be a Doll?



sparklegem
April 10th, 2009, 07:28 PM
Watching episode 109, it just got me thinking. I think it was the imagery of the head of security pushing Topher into the chair. If a character we thought we knew as an employee of the Dollhouse was actually a doll, that would be a neat and unexpected twist. Or maybe it would be too contrived. What do you think?

The Dollhouse requires a lot of extremely talented specialists, and it would be much cheaper to use an active than actually pay a specialist. I think you could debate whether it would be more secure or less secure to have a doll as an employee. Maybe they wouldn't have had a doll as an employee because of their concern that the dolls were going beyond their programming.

But could Topher perhaps be a doll? He does get a lot of leniency, but that just could be because he's a genius that the Dollhouse needs to function. What about Dr. Saunders? I didn't quite catch what SpyHunter!Echo said to her tonight about her past, it was something like "The security logs show that you haven't left the dollhouse since Alpha's attack"
and while that may rule her out if I think about it, maybe once Alpha cut her she wasn't a useful doll anymore in the field so they made her useful in the Dollhouse?

LoneStar1836
April 10th, 2009, 07:51 PM
Well I certainly wouldn't rule out that possibility...of an employee being a doll.

I don't think Topher is one though. Heh. I'll probably end up being wrong on that account, but he is slimier as a human who does this on his own free will without any tampering or hint of being tampered with.

ShadowMaat
April 10th, 2009, 10:11 PM
If anyone in the Dollhouse is a doll, I'd say it's Adele herself. What better way to run a global conspiracy than to make sure that all the people in charge of the Houses are 110% loyal and uncorruptable?

ZeroPoint
April 10th, 2009, 10:30 PM
Agreed that Topher probably isn't a doll. There'd be no point to program up his annoying traits and inefficiencies.

I doubt Saunders, because she still has the memory of being cut up, and that should be the first thing to wipe.

I can see some of the handlers being retired dolls though. Maybe because there's little established background on them.

After episode 109, there's an outside chance that Adelle herself is a doll.

Ranlier
April 10th, 2009, 11:49 PM
None of the central cast (Adelle, Topher, Boyd) are dolls. They wrote out that possibility by saying "Drug X affects dolls this way and normal humans another", drawing clear distinguishing lines.

ShadowMaat
April 10th, 2009, 11:54 PM
Oh yeah. Heh. Ah well, was a fun thought anyway. LOL!

sparklegem
April 11th, 2009, 12:17 AM
None of the central cast (Adelle, Topher, Boyd) are dolls. They wrote out that possibility by saying "Drug X affects dolls this way and normal humans another", drawing clear distinguishing lines.

Oh yeah, that's right. I overlooked that. Good catch!

Gregorius
April 11th, 2009, 11:49 AM
If anyone in the Dollhouse is a doll, I'd say it's Adele herself. What better way to run a global conspiracy than to make sure that all the people in charge of the Houses are 110% loyal and uncorruptable?

Or to turn your dolls into people in powerful places? Imagine a doll in charge of the white house, congress, the UN, the NSA, the FBI etc...

Crazy Tom
April 11th, 2009, 04:01 PM
Agreed that Topher probably isn't a doll. There'd be no point to program up his annoying traits and inefficiencies.


Eeehh... near sightedness, remeber? Everythign's gotto balance.


Or to turn your dolls into people in powerful places? Imagine a doll in charge of the white house, congress, the UN, the NSA, the FBI etc...

Boom, you control the world. It's a wodner they haven't done it yet.

Neosuchi
April 13th, 2009, 12:50 PM
Boom, you control the world. It's a wodner they haven't done it yet.

Maybe that's their purpose...maybe someone will make technology to remote install imprints (since someone obviously can remote mind wipe). Use that to remote imprint ppl to take over the whole world!!! >_>:

ShadowMaat
April 13th, 2009, 09:55 PM
Maybe that's their purpose...maybe someone will make technology to remote install imprints (since someone obviously can remote mind wipe). Use that to remote imprint ppl to take over the whole world!!! >_>:

Yeah, but where's the fun of taking over the world if no one knows what you've done? :P And really, unwavering loyalty all the time would get kinda boring. Though I suppose if you wanted to risk it you could occasionally pick someone to be insubordinate. But A) You run the risk of someone successfully defeating you and B.) If you know who's going to be insubordinate it takes some of the fun out of it.

Gregorius
April 14th, 2009, 04:24 AM
Yeah, but where's the fun of taking over the world if no one knows what you've done? :P And really, unwavering loyalty all the time would get kinda boring.

It's the smart thing to do. If I had Dollhouse technology I'd take over the most powerful positions by placing dolls into them and that way I'd control the population with little to no effort.

I'd be safe from anything because the population wouldn't know I was behind it and if they'd overthrow a doll I'd simply replace it with a new one, as in make the new one the leader of the uprising.

In any case, once you've got the technology, it's a quick and simple way to take over the world without anyone unimportant knowing, and if anyone figured it out you could use the technology to implant yourself with awesome skills to defend yourself.

Hermiiod
April 14th, 2009, 06:59 AM
Yeah not Topher but it is possible someone else is. Perhaps Echoe's Handler even.

Gregorius
April 14th, 2009, 07:04 AM
Yeah not Topher but it is possible someone else is. Perhaps Echoe's Handler even.

It can't her old handler, he was affected like a normal person by the memory drug, and her new handler wasn't even in the Dollhouse when the messages were delivered.

Saquist
April 14th, 2009, 05:42 PM
This is a really a good question....
This is really good show...now that I've given it a try...I wouldn't doubt that they're are going to explore alot of these possibilies.

They said this show is on the chopping block...I hope Sci Fi pics it up and carries it if happens.

sparklegem
May 2nd, 2009, 07:24 PM
Eeehh... near sightedness, remeber? Everythign's gotto balance.

Yeah, that would be my argument for Topher's personality flaws if he were a doll, but the drug episode ruled that out.

SPOILERS from "BRIAR ROSE":
This episode provided more evidence that Saunders is a doll. Yay for theories turning out!

1) Dominic calls out to each person by name and then says "Whiskey" when he looks at Saunders. Whiskey to the naming system they use for the dolls: Alpha, Bravo, Charlie,...

2) Alpha asks Saunders "Have you always wanted to be a doctor?" and when she responds affirmatively, he says she's wrong.

Oh, dude. I love this show.

Liam Kincaid
May 7th, 2009, 06:21 PM
maybe once Alpha cut her she wasn't a useful doll anymore in the field so they made her useful in the Dollhouse?


I think that is why Alpha cuts dolls, to stop them from being used as Actives anymore.

sparklegem
May 8th, 2009, 07:19 PM
I think that is why Alpha cuts dolls, to stop them from being used as Actives anymore.

Good thought, but after watching Omega I don't think his motives are that deep.

Spoilers for OMEGA
That was exciting to learn more about Whiskey. I wonder, are they going to redo her consciousness so she doesn't know she's a doll again? The composite personalities seemed rather dissociated from the concept of identity and so were more comfortable with who they were, but I can't imagine what the "Dr. Saunders" personality would go through from here on in, knowing she's not real and that she'll "die" after Whiskey's contract is up.

P.S.
Okay, I know it is rather poor character for me to pat myself on the back publicly, but as I've never actually speculated and sort of predicted a major plot development from clues seeded earlier, I just have to say SCORE!

knowles2
May 9th, 2009, 06:52 PM
She has evolve or is evolving, I am guesting once a personality been in the doll long enough it starts to evolve and generates it own ideas, believes. It seems the technology leaves a part of the personality behind to.
Over time I think these can evolve into personalities of there own. We already know leftovers from the constructs and there left overs from the previous constructs, all these tine little pieces eventually converge togeather to form a entirely new independent intelligence which it seems desires or need the body original owner back.

Morrolan
May 10th, 2009, 03:04 PM
Good thought, but after watching Omega I don't think his motives are that deep.

Wasn't it explained that he cut Whiskey specifically so she could not be an Active anymore? The method is his sociopathic personality coming through. Ballard stated that you can't erase the soul. To borrow from SG-1, something of the host always remains.

sparklegem
May 10th, 2009, 03:35 PM
Wasn't it explained that he cut Whiskey specifically so she could not be an Active anymore? The method is his sociopathic personality coming through. Ballard stated that you can't erase the soul. To borrow from SG-1, something of the host always remains.

Oh, you're right. In the case of Whiskey, it does fit. I was thinking on the greater scale of why he cuts anyone. In the case of other dolls like Victor I don't think his motive was to prevent them from being dolls but just for the sake of cutting them.

Gregorius
May 10th, 2009, 03:48 PM
I don't think his motive was to prevent them from being dolls but just for the sake of cutting them.

I concur and I think it's a sign that in certain, if not all, dolls they can't completely "wipe" them. They might've erased the personality but some things like a compulsion to cut things might've remained.

In the case of Whiskey, wasn't it to make Echo, whom he felt attracted to, the #1 doll?

Morrolan
May 11th, 2009, 08:09 AM
Oh, you're right. In the case of Whiskey, it does fit. I was thinking on the greater scale of why he cuts anyone. In the case of other dolls like Victor I don't think his motive was to prevent them from being dolls but just for the sake of cutting them.

I think that action to take Whiskey out of action broke the dam, so to speak. He was a slasher before and that personality wasn't removed when he became a doll. You're right, it's just for the sake of cutting.

stargatefan234
August 4th, 2009, 01:16 PM
OMG

SPOILERS for "Omega":
Amy Acker Is A DOLL