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GateWorld
March 25th, 2009, 08:04 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s5/index.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/graphics/517.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">LOST SEASON FIVE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s5/index.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE INCIDENT, PART 2</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 517</FONT>
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Jack must get past Sawyer in order to deliver a bomb to the Swan construction site. Locke and the Others reach Jacob's home, leading to a fateful meeting between two rivals.

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Amalthea
May 13th, 2009, 08:03 PM
Holy Moses!! I have to wait until 2010 for more?!?

I don't even know what to say! It's like some cosmic grudge match between Jacob and other guy (who has been in every show I have ever seen, I think LOL).

And Juliet! I had a bad feeling when Sawyer looked at her. And then boom! Darg! Must rewatch!

HAL2100
May 13th, 2009, 08:11 PM
If its a Christ/Satan relationship between Jacob and the Other Guy, then its entirely possible that while the Other Guy found the loophole, its was Jacob's plan all along to create a situation where Jacob could orchestrate the other person's death via Richard and the gang hence the reason why he asked what's her name in the hospital for help.

Shan Bruce Lee
May 13th, 2009, 08:19 PM
That was awesome. We finally get to see who Jacob is and then just like that...
I thought Juliet's fall was an incredible scene but then there was that last scene.
Finally got to see Jack and Sawyer throw down... awesome.

I gotta say it's nice they finally give us the answer to the question "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" - Anybody care to translate?!

Who is Anti-Jacob? I got a feeling he's the good one.
So that's where all that stuff sticking out of the walls in the Swan came from...
I could've sworn Miles was gonna die when he was saving Chang.
Loved the scene with Ben, Jacob and Anti-Jacob.
KA-BOOM! see ya next season...

I liked the way they inverted the closing logo... looks like they're gonna use that next season.

I'll bet anything it was Jack's eye opening in the season 6 preview.

boyd18
May 13th, 2009, 08:52 PM
amazing finale...every min of it was great...

although the producers did say there would be 1 major death in finale...but they didn't actually make it clear who dies...Sayid was very near death the last time we saw him in the episode and then Juliet triggering the bomb...guess we'll have to wait 8 months for an answer to that question..

something i'm confused about, the real John Locke really did die back in L.A. but, Jacob's little boyfriend took his place...i guess thats what he ment when he said he found his loophole..as for jacob being killed, i doubt it...if he knew to visit a few of the losties at earlier points in there lives, he must know how future events play out and would have foreseen his death....

he also mentioned that "there coming", i'm guessing he means the losties found there way back...

something that disappointed me about the episode and the season in general is the lack of desmond...

HAL2100
May 13th, 2009, 08:55 PM
amazing finale...every min of it was great...

although the producers did say there would be 1 major death in finale...but they didn't actually make it clear who dies...Sayid was very near death the last time we saw him in the episode and then Juliet triggering the bomb...guess we'll have to wait 8 months for an answer to that question..

something i'm confused about, the real John Locke really did die back in L.A. but, Jacob's little boyfriend took his place...i guess thats what he ment when he said he found his loophole..as for jacob being killed, i doubt it...if he knew to visit a few of the losties at earlier points in there lives, he must know how future events play out and would have foreseen his death....

he also mentioned that "there coming", i'm guessing he means the losties found there way back...

something that disappointed me about the episode and the season in general is the lack of desmond...

I took it as 'The Others' coming into the Temple.

Shan Bruce Lee
May 13th, 2009, 09:05 PM
amazing finale...every min of it was great...

although the producers did say there would be 1 major death in finale...but they didn't actually make it clear who dies...Sayid was very near death the last time we saw him in the episode and then Juliet triggering the bomb...guess we'll have to wait 8 months for an answer to that question..

something i'm confused about, the real John Locke really did die back in L.A. but, Jacob's little boyfriend took his place...i guess thats what he ment when he said he found his loophole..as for jacob being killed, i doubt it...if he knew to visit a few of the losties at earlier points in there lives, he must know how future events play out and would have foreseen his death....

he also mentioned that "there coming", i'm guessing he means the losties found there way back...

something that disappointed me about the episode and the season in general is the lack of desmond...

I think Jacob did die, and I think that's the major death you're talking about. But I don't read a lot of spoilers so I don't know what you're talking about.

Amalthea
May 13th, 2009, 10:29 PM
Ok, so I'm watching the west coast feed, and it occurs to me that Jacob purposely brings new people to the Island. If he brought the Black Rock, did he bring the Jughead people? And then Dharma? It seems he definitely brought Oceanic 815 and Ajira. Jacob is trying to accomplish something... but what? And why is he other guy trying to stop him?

SBN
May 13th, 2009, 10:35 PM
Confusing.

For all intents and purposes Juliet and Sayid should be dead, yet...One could make the argument with two angles that they are not. Neither was shown to be dead, and if the bomb resets then they would be alive. So, is that the major character death?

Could Jacob really be the major death? Both the character and the actor tonight should not really be considered major characters.

The only really big news tonight was that Locke is really dead, so no more Locke. Other than that I really just did not find anything all that shocking. I must say I will be glad that next season is THE end. Lost was fun the first couple of seasons, but now it just gets so bleeping tiresome the stop and go with the story. If I had to do it all over again I think I would have waited until the series finished so I could watch it from begining to end.

Alan Wake
May 13th, 2009, 11:07 PM
I hate my life. about 40 seconds towards the end was cut because of a station glitch. I'll have to find that missing time somewhere.

This was a great episode... Great

One question though.

Sayid was wearing Horace's uniform... and he was dieing/ almost dead. In a few seasons back, when locke is looking through the corpses in the hole in the jungle, he searches through Horace's uniform for a paper. Is it possible, that since sayid was wearing his uniform, that the body locke finds is not horace, but indeed sayid?

That's what jumped out in my head when I saw that scene.

Other then that, I really feel sorry for the original locke. We'll most likely never get him back, and we've lost a good character.

majorsal
May 13th, 2009, 11:07 PM
wow, just wow. :eek:

there's SO much to take in!

is locke really dead, or is the body in the casket thingie just his shell?

quick question: when jacob went back in time to see all the losties, did he touch every one? i'm wondering that 'if' he touched each person, that might have?... i don't know. :p

juliet. :( i'm liking sawyer and juliet more as leading couple than jack and kate (i ship both couples).

this show... what writing. :sam59:

(i'll have more tomorrow, when i can get my head around everything)

Darren
May 13th, 2009, 11:27 PM
quick question: when jacob went back in time to see all the losties, did he touch every one? i'm wondering that 'if' he touched each person, that might have?... i don't know. :p
Yep, about halfway through I realized that he was making deliberate, physical contact with each person he visited -- either touching them (finger on Kate's nose, hands on Jin and Sun, etc.) or through an object (candy bar to Jack, pen to James). By the Hurley taxi scene, I was watching for it -- and the touch is there at the end, very deliberate, just before Jacob gets out of the cab.

What was he doing? At first it seemed like he was influencing people in some small way. Then later, with others (e.g. Jack), it was more like he was just observing.

Was the touch some sort of "tagging," a part of bringing them to the island?

Shan Bruce Lee
May 14th, 2009, 12:27 AM
I hate my life. about 40 seconds towards the end was cut because of a station glitch. I'll have to find that missing time somewhere.

Well you'll just have to watch the whole thing online tomorrow (abc.com) :)

ThreeFriesShortOfaHappyMeal
May 14th, 2009, 01:55 AM
Metallic black hole. So thats whats being blocked in the hatch. They really were saving the world by pushing the button. Too many good lines and moments

memnarch
May 14th, 2009, 02:35 AM
I gotta say it's nice they finally give us the answer to the question "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" - Anybody care to translate?!



The answer is "He who will save us all." Basically: Jacob.

knowsfords
May 14th, 2009, 03:05 AM
Ffffffffuuuuuu

Billz
May 14th, 2009, 03:27 AM
:tealcanime49::weiranime33::teyla26::ronananime25::zelenka25:

Wow!

Someone care to explain the loophole to me? I was stunned to see 'Living Locke' in the foot of the statue and 'Dead Locke' fall out of the box outside the foot at the statue, all in the present time line.

I hate that Juliet died. That really shocked me. To be honest, I wanted Kate to 'kick the bucket', as it were. I hate Kate.

I guess we can basically sum up that most of the statue was destroyed by the 'Jughead' bomb.

This is quite possibly the best episode to date. The writing was absolutly superb. Why couldn't Damien Lindelof and J.J. Abrams have got the same quality, writing wise, in the latest Trek film?

SBN
May 14th, 2009, 03:42 AM
:tealcanime49::weiranime33::teyla26::ronananime25::zelenka25:

Wow!

Someone care to explain the loophole to me? I was stunned to see 'Living Locke' in the foot of the statue and 'Dead Locke' fall out of the box outside the foot at the statue, all in the present time line.

At first I was annoyed when they opened up the crate the first time, as I had the suspecion they were going to keep this a secret over several episodes, thanfully we get to see what is in the box.


I hate that Juliet died. That really shocked me. To be honest, I wanted Kate to 'kick the bucket', as it were. I hate Kate.

But is she dead? We see she has fallen down a deep hole, is injured, but never dead. From now until next year anything, and I mean anything could change. They very well could write it in that she will survive, the island will heal her. Or she could never be seen again. Sadly we have to wait 8 months + to be sure.


I guess we can basically sum up that most of the statue was destroyed by the 'Jughead' bomb.

We really don't know that yet, as we never saw the statue in 1977. Prior the brief glimpse shown gave us no time coordinates. And the begining of this episode gives us the idea the statue was whole several hundred years ago. It is a good assumption, but with Lost we never know.


This is quite possibly the best episode to date. The writing was absolutly superb. Why couldn't Damien Lindelof and J.J. Abrams have got the same quality, writing wise, in the latest Trek film?

Just saw the Trek film..meh, it's for kids. The only character I enjoyed seeing was Karl Urban's Bones. The rest of the cast just bored me, I had no interest whether they lived or died.

knowsfords
May 14th, 2009, 04:55 AM
:tealcanime49::weiranime33::teyla26::ronananime25::zelenka25:

Wow!

Someone care to explain the loophole to me? I was stunned to see 'Living Locke' in the foot of the statue and 'Dead Locke' fall out of the box outside the foot at the statue, all in the present time line.


Remember what the guy who was talking to Jacob said at the start of part 1... That he wanted to kill Jacob, but needed to find a loophole.

The loophole was that he took Locke's form, to convince someone to kill Jacob... as he himself was unable.



I guess we can basically sum up that most of the statue was destroyed by the 'Jughead' bomb.


Nope, series reset (hopefully)

dosed150
May 14th, 2009, 06:02 AM
At first I was annoyed when they opened up the crate the first time, as I had the suspecion they were going to keep this a secret over several episodes, thanfully we get to see what is in the box.



But is she dead? We see she has fallen down a deep hole, is injured, but never dead. From now until next year anything, and I mean anything could change. They very well could write it in that she will survive, the island will heal her. Or she could never be seen again. Sadly we have to wait 8 months + to be sure.



We really don't know that yet, as we never saw the statue in 1977. Prior the brief glimpse shown gave us no time coordinates. And the begining of this episode gives us the idea the statue was whole several hundred years ago. It is a good assumption, but with Lost we never know.



Just saw the Trek film..meh, it's for kids. The only character I enjoyed seeing was Karl Urban's Bones. The rest of the cast just bored me, I had no interest whether they lived or died.

well she did set off a nuclear weapon so i can't see how she lived

jds1982
May 14th, 2009, 06:09 AM
Anyone think that Anti-Jacob may have been the monster? He assumed the form of a dead person, which is something the monster does, and the monster itself told Ben to follow Locke's orders.

retiredat44
May 14th, 2009, 08:40 AM
Well, well, well, what did we see..

Ben sticks the fork (knife) in,,, and Jacob is done?
There are two Lockes (one dead and one alive).
Juliet (lived after a small fall from hundreds of feet.) wacks the bomb and we see a bright light..
Kate is still bi-polar
Sawyer was bulldozed by different decisions and was not only told (asked) to do two different things, but had to flip-flop in his decisons only to loose his love Juliet.
The 'new others' or other's oppisite newbies, with poor Lepetis the chopper pilot in tow, the casket with Locke's body are an enigma of new crazies on some quest where they will not let anyone get in their way.
Richard is confused which is just plain wrong because he seemed like he knew everything.
Everyone expects to be back to the beggining and not have any recolllection of the past that never was.
The Dharama people have a bunch of crazies running it and the only sane one is Miles's father.
Jack means well and we (well I do) think he did the right things.
I am so sad for Sayid.
Hugo has really been put through the ringer, and maybe ran out of Zingers.
The timeline is so fractured, it looks like a mess.
Ben is never out of the picture.

The Jacob twist:
What happened to Jacob's friend? I was thinking (as Jacob was with his friend ont he beach and they were chatting about some diffrences or arguement they were having), that maybe Jacob's friend (or whoever was with him on the island) took the form of Locke and made his way back to Jacob. Locke is really dead. Which leads me to think Jacob and his friend can actually take the form of other persons dead or alive and they are playing some game out or arguement. Maybe this has been playing out throughout the ages. Maybe they are very, very old, have some super powers, and sometimes others get near them, come to their island and become tangled in this wild superbeing fight between those two beings. (human beings?).

Jacob does some very evil things with his mild pleasing manner about him.

Very interested to hear what others think.. about the season finale.

knowles2
May 14th, 2009, 08:50 AM
So overall a very interesting episode.

I will all my thoughts on both episodes here.

So Jakub and bloke 2 has been having some sought of rivlry with t us humans cannot resist using the island power for our own personnel gains. Which the other bloke proven time an again that is all us humans will ever do. An plus he wants Jakub dead but big boss said he could not do it directly an so let the looking for loopholes begin.

So Jakob bought the egyptions here and they use it the island for personal gains, what I do not know what for, perhaps the pharaohs us it to maintain there power, obviously they rename Jakub and Man 2 in the image of there godsm, an so Jakob lost his bet. Then he bought the Black rock to the island and man 2 bought the captain and perhaps the crew off with immortality.
Then the Dharma under command Horrance to prove his theories of electro magneticism was correct and the power that is contained in there to harvest for his own ambitions.

Not sure why he bought the marines aboard, but again man 2 one the bet because they simply there to gain more power and a new weapon testing range out side the soviets spying abilities.

And so flight 315, crash land a other lot of people on the island for Jakub to try and win his little deal once and for all. And this time I think he found the people who are not going to used the power of the island for selfesh reasons.

As to what the bomb at the end does have not got a clue, I am guesting they will be drag back into the past before Ben and Lock 2 little murder spree began. But they will remember all that has happen an someone will take them back to the island, but this time right time zone to defeat lock 2.

They are coming I persuming they are his last throw of the dice to win the bet, in that being Hurly, Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Juliet and syid. Who got to kill lock and overthrow richard and defeat bloke 2 and the statue people. Who all in some way just want to use the island for there own power.

Rose and Bernard was cool, calm and both been out smarting Sawyer for three years. They have live in luxury, with little to worry about, and so what the hell are they hiding and they had to have help from someone of something, I just do not believe they are as comfortable as it seem.

Glad Vincent showed up. He probably the only thing on the island that knows what going and he well he obviously cannot tell us.

mizzoueng
May 14th, 2009, 09:34 AM
The episode was good, but very confusing.

First, the bomb was leaking radiation, so pulling the core from the shielding will only radiate more. In all likelihood they all should have had symptoms of radiation exposure within 2 hours.

The requirement for the sedatives on the sub is confusing, perhaps people need to be asleep to pass through the islands barrier to prevent the psychosis that we see that happens (Faradays path)

I don't think Sayid is the body in the pit with the Horris suit on, we saw during the cleansing that Horris was dead and laying in a park bench reading a book. Plus the cleansing occurs 20 years later.

I do think that Miles hit the nail on the head, the direct actions of Jack seem to cause everything to happen like it did. Jack could have changed Ben by saving him, but he didn't and now Ben becomes "Ben". Jack went for the bomb, the direct EMP wave created by a nuclear blast "could" counter the energy pocket, perhaps the shell that the pocket is in now contains two contrasting EMP signatures and that constant "battle" requires the systematic venting of the pressure inside occasionally (pushing the buttons), by not pushing the buttons the two forces increase in pressure until the natural force wins and causes a cascading failure which forced the h-bomb wave out and caused the 315 flight to crash.

By not setting off the bomb, the energy could probably be contained again and redirected or controlled (again, another button, but maybe not on a timer)

Jacob touched everyone, and he gave Hugo a guitar case. We still don't know what is in the case. I think this will be a crucial piece of information in the coming season. Jacob knew that Anti-Locke was going to find the loophole with the dead-Locke. So he visited all of the Losties and left parts of himself with each of them. They will all somehow get back together and bring Jacob back.

In the mean time, Anti-Jacob will try to kill off everyone on the island. I think Ben will be the first people to be killed next season. Now that AL has used him as he wanted to, there is no use for him.

I was glad to see Rose and Bernard, I wondered what happened to them. but we still don't know what happened to the remaining Others and the children that were sent to the Temple. I don't think the statue was The Temple, there must be something else.

Arative
May 14th, 2009, 09:53 AM
Here is my take on it.

Jacob was the man white. The other guy was dressed in black, he could be Esau from the bible. They were brothers and Esau vows to kill Jacob in Gen 27:41 and the same thing happened here. The white and black shirts were big hint at the good vs evil conflict. It seemed that at the beginning they were in paradise and they were testing men by bringing them to paradise and seeing if they would live in harmony. Jacob believes that man can "make progress" and change while the other guy feels like man will never change and always create chaos. Thus Jacob brings people to the island to prove his point while the other guy is looking for a "loop hole" to kill Jacob. The island is some heavenly place and people can only be brought there.

Backgammon was the game that Lock taught Walt in the season 1 PILOT. The producers were telling us right there that it was a game of good vs evil. In his explanation it was: The oldest game in the world, older than Jesus Christ. Dice made of bones = dice are people? There are 2 players and 2 sides. One is light, one is dark. That sounds like the whole show in a nutshell

I don't believe that Jacob is dead. He seemed to set everything up so it would happen like it did. He knew that the guy in black would be wearing Locke's skin and would try and get Ben to kill him. We're going to see the battle between good and evil next season.

boyd18
May 14th, 2009, 11:26 AM
the good vs evil battle is a good theory...back in life a death of jeremy bentham, Widmore tells Locke that a war is coming and that if locke doesn't return to the island, the wrong side will win...i guess he's referring to this battle between good and evil...since he says that if locke doesn't return to the island, the wrong side will win, we can assume that the side locke is on will be the winning side..

i wonder if Widmore knew that Locke would die and Jacob's pal would take his place...if thats the case then Widmore could be helping Jacob's pal as a way to get revenge against Jacob for banishing him from the island...

you know, the incident was suppose to help us understand what direction the show is heading, but the only thing it did was make things a hell of alot more confusing...

Arative
May 14th, 2009, 11:52 AM
That book that Jacob was reading when Locke fell was all about redemption. It was Everything that rises must converge, by Flannery O'Conner. Redemption is a religious concept referring to forgiveness or absolution for past sins and protection from eternal damnation, generally through sacrifice.

Thinking about all the 815 people that died, they all died after they had been redeemed and some had made sacrifices. You look at Eko, Lilly, Shannon, Boone, Michael, Ann Lucia and Charlie they all changed for the good before they died. Eko started out a killer and drug lord but finally went down the path of God and made ammends with his brother and then he was allowed to die, he wasn't allowed to die to polar bears, or the smoke monster, or to an exploding hatch because he was not fully redeemed yet. Charlie was a drug addict and actually died when Ethan choked him to death but Charlie had not redeemed himself yet so the island brought him back. Charlie later on redeemed himself then when he saved Desmond and turned off the jamming switch in the looking glass. When this happened Charlie had become a better person and he was allowed to die. The same with Michael he wanted to kill himself many times for what he had done but the island would not let him die. He was not able to die until he saved the people on the ship, then he was allowed to die after his redemption. Shannon was a selfish person who only cared about herself. She never really loved anyone, she just used people. When she finally fell in love for real with Sayid and she finally had responsibility by caring for Walt and his dog she was redeemed and then she was shot and killed. The list goes on and on. Redemption is a huge theme.

boyd18
May 14th, 2009, 01:02 PM
anyone else think Jacob's pal somehow has some kinda control over the smoke monster? the smoke monster manifested itself to Ben in the form of his dead daughter...she then told Ben to follow everything that Locke (jacob's pal) says....Locke (jacobs pal) then tells Ben that he has to kill Jacob because Locke (jacobs pal) couldn't do it himself...

JayShadow
May 14th, 2009, 01:34 PM
But is she dead? We see she has fallen down a deep hole, is injured, but never dead. From now until next year anything, and I mean anything could change. This is where TV/storytelling logic has to take over. You don't give someone a send off like that where they heroically sacrifice themselves and everyone grieves over them, and then take it back. She got the Charlie death. You can't waste those.

Then there's the TV industry logic. You don't let your stars go to film a pilot for a new show unless their character is dead, or you think your show is getting canceled.

JayShadow
May 14th, 2009, 01:38 PM
anyone else think Jacob's pal somehow has some kinda control over the smoke monster? the smoke monster manifested itself to Ben in the form of his dead daughter...she then told Ben to follow everything that Locke (jacob's pal) says....Locke (jacobs pal) then tells Ben that he has to kill Jacob because Locke (jacobs pal) couldn't do it himself...
Yeah, I'm kinda assuming the cave drawing from "Dead is Dead" is representative of the mystery guy and the smoke monster as his pet. Since we found out that the statue wasn't Anubus, even though the cave drawing was.
http://lost.cubit.net/assets_c/2009/04/5x12_anubis_smokey-thumb-470x266-2364.jpg

ThreeFriesShortOfaHappyMeal
May 14th, 2009, 03:13 PM
That side view of the statue looked a little different than Anubis but i thought it still was. Maybe Anti-Anubis?

I got that this was the end of time (at least in this universe). All the drama goes down, then something happens that resets it all to zero and the drama starts again. As jacob states, progress is made each time toward a different ending. This could be to stop the bomb from being thrown in because, seemed pretty obvious to me, this little 'incident' could very well be the cause of the 'big bang'. Why not destroy this universe but at the same time create another? This 'metallic black hole' combined with a nuclear reaction seems to mix with me for a formula to the big bang. I mean, if the show resets next year this really seems to fit.

Then next season we will see all of the same characters but they wont be the same we've come to know and love.

Last, who thinks the entity that possessed Christian and other dead people was in Locke? I dont know about that one..would explain quite a bit though.

majorsal
May 14th, 2009, 04:55 PM
Was the touch some sort of "tagging," a part of bringing them to the island?

that what i was thinking too. or if jacob was something religious, maybe a tagging of protection (for what was to happen in the future)?

and who's eye was shown in the very last scene?

such a great show. :D

Arative
May 14th, 2009, 05:05 PM
That side view of the statue looked a little different than Anubis but i thought it still was. Maybe Anti-Anubis?

I got that this was the end of time (at least in this universe). All the drama goes down, then something happens that resets it all to zero and the drama starts again. As jacob states, progress is made each time toward a different ending. This could be to stop the bomb from being thrown in because, seemed pretty obvious to me, this little 'incident' could very well be the cause of the 'big bang'. Why not destroy this universe but at the same time create another? This 'metallic black hole' combined with a nuclear reaction seems to mix with me for a formula to the big bang. I mean, if the show resets next year this really seems to fit.

Then next season we will see all of the same characters but they wont be the same we've come to know and love.

Last, who thinks the entity that possessed Christian and other dead people was in Locke? I dont know about that one..would explain quite a bit though.

From what I've read on other sites, the general thought is that the statue is Sobek

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobek

majorsal
May 14th, 2009, 05:13 PM
This is where TV/storytelling logic has to take over. You don't give someone a send off like that where they heroically sacrifice themselves and everyone grieves over them, and then take it back. She got the Charlie death. You can't waste those.


but i'm hoping juliet's not dead. :(

and i'm wondering if with hurley bringing the guitar case with him, jacob was knowing charlie wasn't 'dead' dead?

boyd18
May 14th, 2009, 05:26 PM
From what I've read on other sites, the general thought is that the statue is Sobek

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobek


Sobek's ambiguous nature led some Egyptians to believe that he was a repairer of evil that had been done, rather than a force for good in itself, for example, going to Duat to restore damage done to the dead as a result of their form of death. He was also said to call on suitable gods and goddesses required for protecting people in situation, effectively having a more distant role, nudging things along, rather than taking an active part.

that is from the wiki page you posted...that actually sounds alot like Jacob...

entil2001
May 14th, 2009, 06:00 PM
Review: Lost 5.16: "The Incident" (http://entil2001.com/series/lost/season5/lost5-16.html)

Overall, this episode was another jam-packed and thought-provoking season finale, tying together aspects of the series' mythology going back to the early first season while setting the perfect stage for the sixth and final season. As always, the long wait between seasons will be hard to bear.

Shan Bruce Lee
May 15th, 2009, 12:06 AM
that what i was thinking too. or if jacob was something religious, maybe a tagging of protection (for what was to happen in the future)?

and who's eye was shown in the very last scene?

such a great show. :D

If you're talking about the season six preview, my guess is Jack's...

ThreeFriesShortOfaHappyMeal
May 15th, 2009, 12:38 AM
Kinda looked like Bens...but probably was Jacks

SoulReaver
May 15th, 2009, 01:47 AM
That was awesome. We finally get to see who Jacob is and then just like that...
I thought Juliet's fall was an incredible scene but then there was that last scene.
Finally got to see Jack and Sawyer throw down... awesome.

I gotta say it's nice they finally give us the answer to the question "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" - Anybody care to translate?!

Who is Anti-Jacob? I got a feeling he's the good one.
So that's where all that stuff sticking out of the walls in the Swan came from...
I could've sworn Miles was gonna die when he was saving Chang.
Loved the scene with Ben, Jacob and Anti-Jacob.
KA-BOOM! see ya next season...

I liked the way they inverted the closing logo... looks like they're gonna use that next season.

I'll bet anything it was Jack's eye opening in the season 6 preview.yeah I like the part where Juliet survives a several 100m fall. lol

btw what's the deal with this "anti-jacob" ? they never mention such a thing in the ep :tealcanime49:
(unless you're referring to Jacob's comrade whom we see on the island right at the beginning of the ep but iirc they never made him out to be jacob's enemy)




but my favourite part was when both Jack and Juliet based their decisions to detonate the nukes on what, love interests ? Jack says he wants to go boom because he "lost her". Juliet says she changed her mind because of the way Sawyer "looked at her". apparently blowing up a nuke is such a trivial thing that it's ok to let mere affairs of the heart decide on the matter. bloody hell, they were acting like kids :/

though Sawyer's attitude wasn't much more commendable either - he didn't wanna undo previous events just because he was ok with his life (he never lost anyone close to him on the island so it's easy for him to say)
I can understand being reserved about messing with the timeline, but this is about averting something that shouldn't have happened in the 1st place. plus all the losties would be brought back to life if this worked, so where's the harm ? if anything to only real loser would be Kate as she would still be a prisoner (if that's what irked Sawyer then that's count #3 - first Jack then Juliet then Sawyer, whose decisions all revolved around Kate. damn this lass is quite a trouble-maker -)

SoulReaver
May 15th, 2009, 01:50 AM
btw how exactly do they expect to "destroy energy" by adding more energy ? (especially in such a random manner as an explosion). even if energy can somehow counter energy the chances of this happening using such a method are infinitesimal (and that's an understatement). plus since the energy being countered is continuous (as far as we know), the energy used to *somehow* cancel it out would have to be continuous as well (in other words something more akin to a nuclear plant, not a bomb)

SoulReaver
May 15th, 2009, 01:53 AM
I gotta say it's nice they finally give us the answer to the question "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" - Anybody care to translate?!it's Ancient. here's the translation :you'll find out next season, in 8 months


Other then that, I really feel sorry for the original locke. We'll most likely never get him back, and we've lost a good character.
is locke really dead, or is the body in the casket thingie just his shell?my thought too, the live Locke is the original (since he retains the memories) and the corpse is just a corpse

maybe he's ascended http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/idee.gif

jds1982
May 15th, 2009, 06:38 AM
(unless you're referring to Jacob's comrade whom we see on the island right at the beginning of the ep but iirc they never made him out to be jacob's enemy)

Um, he said he wanted to kill Jacob, that's not generally something friends do. Also he has been the Locke we have seen this season, as real Locke is quite dead.

Arative
May 15th, 2009, 08:54 AM
I gotta say it's nice they finally give us the answer to the question "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" - Anybody care to translate?!



Its latin and it was He who will protect us.

KatG
May 15th, 2009, 09:13 AM
My thoughts for what they're worth:

Our Locke is dead. The Locke we see alive is a manifestation of the smoke monster. It chose Locke early on which is why Locke was never afraid of it, and thought it was beautiful and the reason it chose him was to find the loophole to destroy Jacob.

I also have to wonder if Ilana isn't Nadia, with facial reconstruction. Right after we saw her get hit, she asked Sayid to take her home. Next thing we're in a "field type" hospital, people speak a foreign language that's not latin based (Iraqi maybe?), a woman around the same size/frame as Nadia is lying there with bandages all over her face, Jacob ask her to help him, and we know that she was responsible for bringing Sayid back to the island.

Also, I don't really know that Juliet is dead, anymore than Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Sayid, Miles and Jin are dead. If the bomb went off, then they're all dead in that time period, but did it reset as Faraday theorized and send the all back to the future?

All in all, I found this episode to be fascinating, leaving many thoughts to ponder. I can't wait for Season 6 either.

SoulReaver
May 15th, 2009, 11:26 AM
Um, he said he wanted to kill Jacob,I don't remember that :tealcanime49:

Also he has been the Locke we have seen this season, as real Locke is quite dead.how d'you figure ? the live Locke has all the memories of the dead one (we also see it when he wakes up/resurrects) so the live one is the real one. the dead one is just a former clone uh I mean shell (a bit like asgards after they transfer hehe)

SoulReaver
May 15th, 2009, 11:27 AM
Juliet on the other hand is dead, unless her durability exceeds that of Superman of course

Shan Bruce Lee
May 15th, 2009, 12:21 PM
I don't remember that :tealcanime49:
how d'you figure ? the live Locke has all the memories of the dead one (we also see it when he wakes up/resurrects) so the live one is the real one. the dead one is just a former clone uh I mean shell (a bit like asgards after they transfer hehe)

He said in the first scene he was gonna keep trying to kill him until he found a loophole.

When he took Locke's form and convinced Ben to kill Jacob at the end, Jacob said "you found your loophole"

SoulReaver
May 15th, 2009, 01:00 PM
He said in the first scene he was gonna keep trying to kill him until he found a loophole.

When he took Locke's form and convinced Ben to kill Jacob at the end, Jacob said "you found your loophole"ok so what's the deal with this "loophole" ?? this implies some kinda rule and means anti-Locke (or whatever) trying to find a way to break this rule or something...

jenks
May 15th, 2009, 01:04 PM
Elizabeth Mitchell is awesome.

Arative
May 15th, 2009, 01:10 PM
ok so what's the deal with this "loophole" ?? this implies some kinda rule and means anti-Locke (or whatever) trying to find a way to break this rule or something...

Perhaps they aren't allowed to kill one another or their both immortal and can't die at each others hands.

The whole Jacob/Esau thing is pretty fascinating to me. For example, take Locke. If he really died at Ben's hands and didn't come back to life, and it appears that way, then he kind of got played for a fool by both Jacob and Esau, didn't he? Very heavy religious themes, such as Ben as Job being asked to sacrifice everything without any answers from his God. I also assume Ben was the "loophole" Esau wanted, its not just enough that a man can kill Jacob, it has to be someone who followed him for a long, long time or was marked as special - otherwise Esua could have convinced/fooled a random person to kill Jacob. The conflict between Jacob and Esau is still mysterious to me.

Darren
May 15th, 2009, 01:24 PM
I love, love, love the Jacob / Esau (for lack of his real name) dynamic. They've introduced an over-arching Good vs. Evil theme, and completely cast the last five years in a new light by revealing that there are two competing "people" behind what we've always called "the Island."

"Esau" has wanted to kill Jacob for over 100 years, perhaps centuries before that. They lived on the island together, probably alone at first. But there are rules he must follow -- apparently including the fact that he can't kill him directly. So he finally finds a "loophole," manipulating someone else to kill Jacob for him. A lot of the past five years have been about Esau's manipulation of Ben/Locke/Richard/etc. to use them to finally get to Jacob.

The Others follow Jacob, perhaps even worship him. He is "the Island," to them -- His Will Be Done. He is "the one who watches over us all." (Who knows if they even know a competing force exists on the island!)

I think that Esau is the Smoke Monster. He's the evil force on the island, the yang to Jacob's yin. He's been taking the form of loved ones for years, to manipulate them -- Yemi, Boone, Alex, perhaps he's even Christian (after Jacob leaves the cabin). He gets Locke to sacrifice himself, gets him killed, replaces him when he comes back on Ajira 316, and uses Alex's image to convince Ben to do whatever "Locke" says.

So my question for Season Six: Is Jacob dead?

If he's some kind of immortal (at least very long-lived), can he be killed by stabbing him and setting him on fire? (Esau seems to think that'll be enough.)

And if he was killed in 2007, does that change by the detonation of the bomb ... assuming that does manage to change the timeline.

I think the plan does work, but something totally different than the Swan station still causes 815 to crash on the island in 2004 (Season Six). Jacob is back alive, and some people (at least Jacob and Esau, if not several of the Losties as well) are aware of the past timeline that has been changed.

SoulReaver
May 15th, 2009, 01:24 PM
Perhaps they aren't allowed to kill one another or their both immortal and can't die at each others hands.

The whole Jacob/Esau thing is pretty fascinating to me. For example, take Locke. If he really died at Ben's hands and didn't come back to life, and it appears that way, then he kind of got played for a fool by both Jacob and Esau, didn't he? Very heavy religious themes, such as Ben as Job being asked to sacrifice everything without any answers from his God. I also assume Ben was the "loophole" Esau wanted, its not just enough that a man can kill Jacob, it has to be someone who followed him for a long, long time or was marked as special - otherwise Esua could have convinced/fooled a random person to kill Jacob. The conflict between Jacob and Esau is still mysterious to me.so Esau is Cerberus ?

SoulReaver
May 15th, 2009, 01:29 PM
btw I'd be really pissed if they did kill off Locke (permanently). if the island can make some ppl live forever then it can also bring others back to life. cellular regeneration, memory transfer, u name it. in fact there doesn't even have to be an explanation (hey this is Lost)

HAL2100
May 15th, 2009, 05:39 PM
The resurrected Locke is actually The Other Guy case in point the conversation at the beginning about the 'loophole' which came full circle at the end.

Its my theory that Jacob actually manipulated Ben into a position that he'd be willing to kill him - hence ignoring him when he was the leader, the cancer, seeing his daughter die and being banished. My theory is that the rules for Jacob and The Other Guy are slightly different. While The Other Guy can't directly kill Jacob, he doesn't have to have a good reason to orchestrate his death. Jacob on the other hand can directly kill The Other Guy, but only under certain conditions - such as Jacob being killed or attacked. Hence Jacob's knew all along that The Other Guy had Locke's phyiscal appearance.

Jacob even went so far as to have the Black Smoke Monster tell Ben that he must do everything that Locke told him to. The BSM being something different from 'The Other Guy'.

Shan Bruce Lee
May 15th, 2009, 06:19 PM
I think that Esau is the Smoke Monster. He's the evil force on the island, the yang to Jacob's yin. He's been taking the form of loved ones for years, to manipulate them -- Yemi, Boone, Alex, perhaps he's even Christian (after Jacob leaves the cabin). He gets Locke to sacrifice himself, gets him killed, replaces him when he comes back on Ajira 316, and uses Alex's image to convince Ben to do whatever "Locke" says.

That seems to be a growing theory among a lot of fans. I don't understand the almost automatic assumption everybody seems to have that Jacob is the good one though. Maybe it's the fact that Jacob was wearing white and Anti-Jacob was wearing black...?

Whatever the reason, I'm going the other way and saying Jacob is the villain.

majorsal
May 15th, 2009, 08:08 PM
My thoughts for what they're worth:

Our Locke is dead. The Locke we see alive is a manifestation of the smoke monster. It chose Locke early on which is why Locke was never afraid of it, and thought it was beautiful and the reason it chose him was to find the loophole to destroy Jacob.



i don't like locke being dead, so i'm going to find ways to not make it so. :p

locke is one of the ppl jacob touched. and in the past, did it look like maybe jacob brought locke back to life?

so maybe jacob plans on helping locke?...

the fifth man
May 15th, 2009, 08:29 PM
Perhaps they aren't allowed to kill one another or their both immortal and can't die at each others hands.

The whole Jacob/Esau thing is pretty fascinating to me. For example, take Locke. If he really died at Ben's hands and didn't come back to life, and it appears that way, then he kind of got played for a fool by both Jacob and Esau, didn't he? Very heavy religious themes, such as Ben as Job being asked to sacrifice everything without any answers from his God. I also assume Ben was the "loophole" Esau wanted, its not just enough that a man can kill Jacob, it has to be someone who followed him for a long, long time or was marked as special - otherwise Esua could have convinced/fooled a random person to kill Jacob. The conflict between Jacob and Esau is still mysterious to me.

I am sure we will find out next season.

boyd18
May 17th, 2009, 10:56 AM
i'm actually starting to think that they did indeed reset things so to speak...i hate to say this, but i think its pretty clear...Juliet did die when she hit the hydrogen bomb...you dont have a death that emotional and then go and undo it when the new season comes around...however she is listed as appearing in season 6...if they did indeed reset things, Juliet is still an Other in Dharmaville and that could explain her appearing...but i dont think she'll remember anything that happened and here's why..

Jacob made visit's to each of the losies at certain points in there lives...when visiting each losties he makes it a point to touch them atleast once...at first i thought he touched a few indirectly (jack and sayid and sawyer) but he does actually touch them...the producers made it a point to show us this...the only lost character he didn't touch was Juliet...

i'm thinking that touch makes the losties immune to the reset and somehow they remember everything..Juliet wasn't touched so she wont remember...i'm also thinking Desmond is immune due to the rules of time not appling to him (according to daniel)...when season 6 starts, we'll learn that things have been reset, the Incident was caused by the losties and the plane does crash again...the only difference is Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Sayid, Hurley, and Jin and Sun remember everything...

now i'm not sure about Locke though...i'd like to think that the Locke we've known since the beginining of lost will be back and not Jacob's pal in his body, but i'm not sure...i'm also not sure about Miles...

of course this is just a theory...when Jacob said "there coming" he could very well mean the losties are returning to 2007 and there actions changed nothing...

Alan Wake
May 17th, 2009, 11:26 AM
i'm actually starting to think that they did indeed reset things so to speak...i hate to say this, but i think its pretty clear...Juliet did die when she hit the hydrogen bomb...you dont have a death that emotional and then go and undo it when the new season comes around...however she is listed as appearing in season 6...if they did indeed reset things, Juliet is still an Other in Dharmaville and that could explain her appearing...but i dont think she'll remember anything that happened and here's why..

Jacob made visit's to each of the losies at certain points in there lives...when visiting each losties he makes it a point to touch them atleast once...at first i thought he touched a few indirectly (jack and sayid and sawyer) but he does actually touch them...the producers made it a point to show us this...the only lost character he didn't touch was Juliet...

i'm thinking that touch makes the losties immune to the reset and somehow they remember everything..Juliet wasn't touched so she wont remember...i'm also thinking Desmond is immune due to the rules of time not appling to him (according to daniel)...when season 6 starts, we'll learn that things have been reset, the Incident was caused by the losties and the plane does crash again...the only difference is Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Sayid, Hurley, and Jin and Sun remember everything...

now i'm not sure about Locke though...i'd like to think that the Locke we've known since the beginining of lost will be back and not Jacob's pal in his body, but i'm not sure...i'm also not sure about Miles...

of course this is just a theory...when Jacob said "there coming" he could very well mean the losties are returning to 2007 and there actions changed nothing...

Get ideas man... I love the way you're thinking. Although, when he said " there coming" I thought he was just talking about the group outside that we were waiting for locke and ben.

Shan Bruce Lee
May 17th, 2009, 03:51 PM
Get ideas man... I love the way you're thinking. Although, when he said " there coming" I thought he was just talking about the group outside that we were waiting for locke and ben.


of course this is just a theory...when Jacob said "there coming" he could very well mean the losties are returning to 2007 and there actions changed nothing...

I thought he meant the Dharma 8 were coming back to the present. The people carrying Locke's body doesn't really fit for me because they were technically already there.

puddlejumper747
May 17th, 2009, 09:41 PM
i'm actually starting to think that they did indeed reset things so to speak...i hate to say this, but i think its pretty clear...Juliet did die when she hit the hydrogen bomb...you dont have a death that emotional and then go and undo it when the new season comes around...however she is listed as appearing in season 6...if they did indeed reset things, Juliet is still an Other in Dharmaville and that could explain her appearing...but i dont think she'll remember anything that happened and here's why..

Jacob made visit's to each of the losies at certain points in there lives...when visiting each losties he makes it a point to touch them atleast once...at first i thought he touched a few indirectly (jack and sayid and sawyer) but he does actually touch them...the producers made it a point to show us this...the only lost character he didn't touch was Juliet...

i'm thinking that touch makes the losties immune to the reset and somehow they remember everything..Juliet wasn't touched so she wont remember...i'm also thinking Desmond is immune due to the rules of time not appling to him (according to daniel)...when season 6 starts, we'll learn that things have been reset, the Incident was caused by the losties and the plane does crash again...the only difference is Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Sayid, Hurley, and Jin and Sun remember everything...
Dang. I think you're probably right, or very close to being right. But when do you think they would be "reset" to? After the Oceanic plane crash, I assume, but before their attempt to leave the Island, maybe? Hmm.


now i'm not sure about Locke though...i'd like to think that the Locke we've known since the beginining of lost will be back and not Jacob's pal in his body, but i'm not sure...
Well, we watched Jacob physically touch/heal Locke after that fall out of the window... so, if there is a reset of some form, I'm guessing that Locke would just come back again just like the other seven characters, with all his previous memories intact, etc. (?) Very interesting ideas, at any rate.

Dusk
May 18th, 2009, 06:38 AM
Definitely a memorable season finale!

If the ones Jacob touched are the only ones to remember, that is extremely disappointing, seeing as all the relationships, all the love, hate, resilience, pain, redemption... all of that between all of the characters over the years will be nullified, and that is almost as bad as saying "it was all a dream".

On the bright side, I'm guessing the reset means we'll be seeing several characters we thought gone forever be back and at it again.

Was also surprised to discover the statue was not Anubis as first thought, but rather that of Taweret, the Egyptian goddess of fertility. Not sure where that fits into all this though.

2010... the final season of LOST forever...

jds1982
May 18th, 2009, 08:31 AM
I thought the consensus was the statue was Sobek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobek).

Promethius30
May 18th, 2009, 11:02 AM
i enjoyed it i am starteing to feel i understand lost after 5 years can't wait for the next and the last season

ThreeFriesShortOfaHappyMeal
May 19th, 2009, 05:03 PM
I thought the consensus was the statue was Sobek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobek).

As did i

Was Jin's 'almost death' not emotional? I think you all have forgotten...

AzMcNeil
May 19th, 2009, 08:28 PM
Perhaps the statue was still intact during the Dharma Initiative's stay and it was the bomb going off that made it look like it does in Lost's present time???

boyd18
May 20th, 2009, 12:48 AM
Perhaps the statue was still intact during the Dharma Initiative's stay and it was the bomb going off that made it look like it does in Lost's present time???

thats possible...when Sun asked Ben what happened to the rest of the statue, Ben replied that it was like that when he got to the island...Sun then says "do you really expect me to believe that" and Ben replies by saying guess not...

which seems to imply that the statue was in 1 piece when Ben got to the island and he was lying when he said it was like that when he got there...

the bomb going off could have also made the huge crater on the southern end of the island (dont have a map of the island at the moment)...

boyd18
May 20th, 2009, 12:52 AM
Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse have claimed that season 6 will feel very much like season 1....so its possible that there was some kinda soft reset ....at what point the reset takes place is anyones guess...

Shan Bruce Lee
May 20th, 2009, 03:58 AM
which seems to imply that the statue was in 1 piece when Ben got to the island and he was lying when he said it was like that when he got there...

It doesn't really imply that to me. I just took it as Sun expressing her distrust of Ben in general.

jds1982
May 21st, 2009, 06:39 AM
the bomb going off could have also made the huge crater on the southern end of the island (dont have a map of the island at the moment)...

Considering that the bomb went off where the hatch from season 1 was, I don't think it made too much of a crater, unless the whole area was an overgrown crater and we just didn't see it.

EDIT: Sorry read you comment as "a huge crater", not "the huge crater". What crater are you talking about?

HAL2100
May 21st, 2009, 09:53 AM
I thought he meant the Dharma 8 were coming back to the present. The people carrying Locke's body doesn't really fit for me because they were technically already there.

I didn't for a moment think about anything/anyone other than those outside. However, given the ambiguity of Jack and The Gang being back with the Dharma Initiative pre-purge something obviously had to happen to them - either they were killed in the nuclear blast, survived and kill at some other time or transported back to their real time. However, there's still Richards (vague) comment that he saw them all killed.

boyd18
May 21st, 2009, 02:12 PM
Considering that the bomb went off where the hatch from season 1 was, I don't think it made too much of a crater, unless the whole area was an overgrown crater and we just didn't see it.

EDIT: Sorry read you comment as "a huge crater", not "the huge crater". What crater are you talking about?

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/thumb/e/e7/LostIslandNotationsLabeled.jpg/541px-LostIslandNotationsLabeled.jpg

O is the crater i'm talking about..it doesn't look like a natural volcanic crater...i'm not exactly sure, but i think the hatch should be close to there....

boyd18
May 31st, 2009, 05:46 AM
well, it looks like the statue is indeed Taweret, atleast according to ABC's episode synopsis for the final episode...there was also a puzzle in wired magazine that was edited by J.J. Abrams...when solved the puzzle reads

T H E F O U
R T O E D S
T A T U E I S
T A W E R E T

still though, the statue looks nothing like Taweret...it resemembles Sobek more then it does Taweret...

HAL2100
May 31st, 2009, 09:48 AM
As I recall, wasn't there a section of the Swan that was behind a concrete and showed some signs of radiation? If so the presumption that detonating a nuclear device would change things was all wrong.

Also, given that the well shaft is a shaft, its entirely possible that it contained the force of the blast.

boyd18
May 31st, 2009, 03:01 PM
if i remember correctly, on the game lost via domus behind the concrete wall in the "incident room" there is a massive reactor that look like 2 large electromagnetic coils over what looks to be the well we saw in the season finale...those electromagnetic coils are probably what keeps the electromagnetic energy at bay...

now the game isn't considered canon but, the reactor designs are the lost creators intended layout if they had planned on showing it...

Sp!der
October 30th, 2009, 07:33 AM
where the hell are my dvds.... damn amazon uk peoples -.-

rushy
December 4th, 2009, 06:05 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!This is a curse.I just lost my favourite character Faraday,now I lost Jacob as I had lost Locke,Michael,Boone and Keamy!

Guess I'll have to take Radzinsky.

Damn It.He's dead too.Made suicide 20 years later.

Guess then it's Hurley.

HAL2100
December 4th, 2009, 09:21 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!This is a curse.I just lost my favourite character Faraday,now I lost Jacob as I had lost Locke,Michael,Boone and Keamy!

You don't know that Jacob is dead.

I personally believe that Jacob and the man in black represent Good and Evil and as such neither one could directly kill the other. Hence, Evil appearing as Locke and manipulating Ben to the point where Ben kills him. Since the general consensus in literature and fiction is that good can't be killed, Jacob will come back. Likewise evil can be eradicated meaning that the man in black will be going away.

HAL2100
December 4th, 2009, 09:23 AM
well, it looks like the statue is indeed Taweret, atleast according to ABC's episode synopsis for the final episode...there was also a puzzle in wired magazine that was edited by J.J. Abrams...when solved the puzzle reads

T H E F O U
R T O E D S
T A T U E I S
T A W E R E T

still though, the statue looks nothing like Taweret...it resemembles Sobek more then it does Taweret...

Regardless of what it looks like, if TPTB have declared it to be Taweret, its Taweret.

HAL2100
December 4th, 2009, 09:25 AM
I might point out that while Juliet may end up 'dead' due to the bomb, that there have been instances of the 'dead' being seen on the island. I did really, really like her.

Alan Wake
December 4th, 2009, 05:08 PM
I might point out that while Juliet may end up 'dead' due to the bomb, that there have been instances of the 'dead' being seen on the island. I did really, really like her.

I'll be honest, I hated her.

I felt a hydrogen bomb blowing up in her face was a fitting end to this terrible character.

HAL2100
December 4th, 2009, 05:24 PM
I'll be honest, I hated her.

I felt a hydrogen bomb blowing up in her face was a fitting end to this terrible character.

I loved her...

Alan Wake
December 7th, 2009, 02:44 PM
I loved her...

but i hated her...

Sp!der
January 2nd, 2010, 03:38 AM
but i hated her...

i loved her too ;)

myhelix
March 19th, 2010, 01:27 PM
That was awesome!

HAL2100
March 20th, 2010, 07:24 AM
but i hated her...

Shut up you Smoke Monster. :)

Alan Wake
March 20th, 2010, 09:45 AM
Shut up you Smoke Monster.

:(

TennisMennis
August 1st, 2010, 08:09 AM
I'm not exactly sure who died, but all I know is this - WOW, what a great cliffhanger. Is Locke dead? You would think he is because that John Locke ain't the John Locke I know.

As for Juliette - how could she survive that blast being that close?

Wow! Can't wait till I purchase season 6 in a few weeks.

TennisMennis
August 1st, 2010, 08:16 AM
That book that Jacob was reading when Locke fell was all about redemption. It was Everything that rises must converge, by Flannery O'Conner. Redemption is a religious concept referring to forgiveness or absolution for past sins and protection from eternal damnation, generally through sacrifice.

Thinking about all the 815 people that died, they all died after they had been redeemed and some had made sacrifices. You look at Eko, Lilly, Shannon, Boone, Michael, Ann Lucia and Charlie they all changed for the good before they died. Eko started out a killer and drug lord but finally went down the path of God and made ammends with his brother and then he was allowed to die, he wasn't allowed to die to polar bears, or the smoke monster, or to an exploding hatch because he was not fully redeemed yet. Charlie was a drug addict and actually died when Ethan choked him to death but Charlie had not redeemed himself yet so the island brought him back. Charlie later on redeemed himself then when he saved Desmond and turned off the jamming switch in the looking glass. When this happened Charlie had become a better person and he was allowed to die. The same with Michael he wanted to kill himself many times for what he had done but the island would not let him die. He was not able to die until he saved the people on the ship, then he was allowed to die after his redemption. Shannon was a selfish person who only cared about herself. She never really loved anyone, she just used people. When she finally fell in love for real with Sayid and she finally had responsibility by caring for Walt and his dog she was redeemed and then she was shot and killed. The list goes on and on. Redemption is a huge theme.

Excellent analysis here. That does seem to make sense. Are you saying those still alive need to find redemption?

TennisMennis
August 1st, 2010, 08:21 AM
I love, love, love the Jacob / Esau (for lack of his real name) dynamic. They've introduced an over-arching Good vs. Evil theme, and completely cast the last five years in a new light by revealing that there are two competing "people" behind what we've always called "the Island."

"Esau" has wanted to kill Jacob for over 100 years, perhaps centuries before that. They lived on the island together, probably alone at first. But there are rules he must follow -- apparently including the fact that he can't kill him directly. So he finally finds a "loophole," manipulating someone else to kill Jacob for him. A lot of the past five years have been about Esau's manipulation of Ben/Locke/Richard/etc. to use them to finally get to Jacob.

The Others follow Jacob, perhaps even worship him. He is "the Island," to them -- His Will Be Done. He is "the one who watches over us all." (Who knows if they even know a competing force exists on the island!)

I think that Esau is the Smoke Monster. He's the evil force on the island, the yang to Jacob's yin. He's been taking the form of loved ones for years, to manipulate them -- Yemi, Boone, Alex, perhaps he's even Christian (after Jacob leaves the cabin). He gets Locke to sacrifice himself, gets him killed, replaces him when he comes back on Ajira 316, and uses Alex's image to convince Ben to do whatever "Locke" says.

So my question for Season Six: Is Jacob dead?

If he's some kind of immortal (at least very long-lived), can he be killed by stabbing him and setting him on fire? (Esau seems to think that'll be enough.)

And if he was killed in 2007, does that change by the detonation of the bomb ... assuming that does manage to change the timeline.

I think the plan does work, but something totally different than the Swan station still causes 815 to crash on the island in 2004 (Season Six). Jacob is back alive, and some people (at least Jacob and Esau, if not several of the Losties as well) are aware of the past timeline that has been changed.

Unless I'm missing something, wasn't this blast supposed to reset everything as if it never happened? Thus, I'm assuming EVERYONE will be alive, including John Locke. Am I out there on this?

TennisMennis
August 1st, 2010, 08:27 AM
Definitely a memorable season finale!

If the ones Jacob touched are the only ones to remember, that is extremely disappointing, seeing as all the relationships, all the love, hate, resilience, pain, redemption... all of that between all of the characters over the years will be nullified, and that is almost as bad as saying "it was all a dream".

On the bright side, I'm guessing the reset means we'll be seeing several characters we thought gone forever be back and at it again.

Was also surprised to discover the statue was not Anubis as first thought, but rather that of Taweret, the Egyptian goddess of fertility. Not sure where that fits into all this though.

2010... the final season of LOST forever...

I've been thinking about this too. Does this reset mean even the people who died like Shannon and Charlie will return to season 6. I'm not sure what it means to be honest.

TennisMennis
August 1st, 2010, 08:34 AM
but i hated her...

Jacob I loved\Esau I hated.....

TennisMennis
August 1st, 2010, 09:17 AM
I think Jacob did die, and I think that's the major death you're talking about. But I don't read a lot of spoilers so I don't know what you're talking about.

No doubt Jacob did die when Ben killed him (2007), but for how long will he remain dead? Don't you think the bomb exploding in the 1970s will change (reset) all of what happened in 2007? Certainly things will be be different because of that bomb exposion. According to Faraday, things will be reset.


Ok, so I'm watching the west coast feed, and it occurs to me that Jacob purposely brings new people to the Island. If he brought the Black Rock, did he bring the Jughead people? And then Dharma? It seems he definitely brought Oceanic 815 and Ajira. Jacob is trying to accomplish something... but what? And why is he other guy trying to stop him?

Black Rock? Jughead? Did I miss something here?


Confusing.

For all intents and purposes Juliet and Sayid should be dead, yet...One could make the argument with two angles that they are not. Neither was shown to be dead, and if the bomb resets then they would be alive. So, is that the major character death?

Could Jacob really be the major death? Both the character and the actor tonight should not really be considered major characters.

The only really big news tonight was that Locke is really dead, so no more Locke. Other than that I really just did not find anything all that shocking. I must say I will be glad that next season is THE end. Lost was fun the first couple of seasons, but now it just gets so bleeping tiresome the stop and go with the story. If I had to do it all over again I think I would have waited until the series finished so I could watch it from begining to end.

I understand what you are saying here because season 5 certainly was hectic going in different time frames all the time, but I have to be honest, I like it when I don't understand everything. That makes me have to rewatch it and in two years, I'll have forgotten, which means I will have to rewatch again. It makes my investment in the DVDs all the more worth while. :)

As for the major death - they must have meant Locke, not Jacob, because you are right, the latter is not a major player. Juliett also probably died, but I don't think they met her.

What does all this mean? According to Faraday, when the bomb explodes, that will reset everything. Don't forget, this bomb exploded in the 1970s. Oceanic 815 took off in 2004. Stay tuned for season 6 (which I haven't seen yet, waiting for DVD).


:tealcanime49::weiranime33::teyla26::ronananime25::zelenka25:

Wow!

Why couldn't Damien Lindelof and J.J. Abrams have got the same quality, writing wise, in the latest Trek film?

IMO, they did. Star trek film was AWESOME! Sorry it wasn't to you; there is always one.


well she did set off a nuclear weapon so i can't see how she lived

True, she died then (1970s), but according to Faraday, that explosion will reset everything. To what extent does that mean? I don't really know.


If you're talking about the season six preview, my guess is Jack's...

I concur. I think season 6 will bring Jack back up to the man, unlike season 5.


btw how exactly do they expect to "destroy energy" by adding more energy ? (especially in such a random manner as an explosion). even if energy can somehow counter energy the chances of this happening using such a method are infinitesimal (and that's an understatement). plus since the energy being countered is continuous (as far as we know), the energy used to *somehow* cancel it out would have to be continuous as well (in other words something more akin to a nuclear plant, not a bomb)

I doubt too many people can think like you here (compliment to you).

TennisMennis
August 1st, 2010, 01:27 PM
If its a Christ/Satan relationship between Jacob and the Other Guy, then its entirely possible that while the Other Guy found the loophole, its was Jacob's plan all along to create a situation where Jacob could orchestrate the other person's death via Richard and the gang hence the reason why he asked what's her name in the hospital for help.

I have been leaning toward this thinking myself; thanks for sharing it. Having just finished this episode and not having seen season 6 yet, all my words come only from what I know from the first five seasons.

I too see the Jacob/other guy as a God v. Satan struggle. Jacob = God; other guy = Satan. Of course when they meet, Jacob is dressed in white (purity) and the other guy is dressed in black (evil). I really enjoyed these two episodes a lot because a lot was revealed. Jacob personally visited the main characters from the show at various times in their life shows how predestined they were to this struggle between good v. evil. Please don't read any further if the spiritual angle upsets you.

Obviously "Satan" could not kill Jacob himself according to the established rules, so he had someone else do it for him - Ben. Ben's character became very revealing in this episode. Up until now, I didn't know what to make of him. Now I have an idea. I now see him as a man who wants to please God and follows his bidding but is very upset because God has not revealed himself to Ben. That sounds very familiar in today's world too. In fact, I too have felt God's snub in my life when I most wanted it. So, I can relate to Ben very much.

Obviously, Jacob/God anticipated Satan's play here - enter the people from Ajira Flight 316, led by Ilana. This is going to be fun to watch in season 6. I really like her character. I'm wondering what kind of history those two had previously because when he visited her in the hospital, it was clear, they already knew each other quite well. I'm wondering if she is another angel figure like Richard. I see Richard as Gabriel, God's faithful angel. Thus, he never ages. I'm thinking Ilana is not a mere human either because Jacob knows her so well. (Just thinking out loud.)

Finally, we all know the ending - good triumphs over evil, so I imagine Jacob will have the last laugh and the other guy will finally get his and be put to rest permanently. Now, what about John Locke? I guess, he will be resurrected again after the 1977 H-bomb explosion. So many possibilities here. I've said enough for now. (I'm probably talking to myself anyhow since I may be the only person in the world who has not seen season 6.)