Did Carson have more reason to go off-world than Rodney?

[Reiko]

This is more of a retrospect thread, as the show is over, but it's been lingering with me for awhile since a convo a few months back on the SW thread and I think it's something worth posting. Just because i'm crazy, bored and it's really late. And I'm curious to know what others think.

i. Rodney

Rodney certainly became a member of Sheppard's core off-world team. I think all of us know that. That said, I don't think he should have been going offworld every single time unless they knew there's a certain scientific aspect of said mission, because the scientific aspects of exploring Atlantis and Pegasus were part of Rodney's job. Making contact with the locals, scavenging dead worlds and going to rescue missions were not.

It's about as (im)practical as sending Elizabeth/etc, the expedition leader, out on every single mission.

I don't hate McKay. I like the character just fine for the most part. Ignoring Season Five for a moment. I actually don't mind if he tags along most of the time. But I personally don't think it's practical from various standpoints.

One of the strongest examples that was brought up in discussion on the SW thread -- the rescue(s) in "Common Ground". Was it really neccessary to bring Rodney along for something like that? He had a reaction to seeing a mouse and let off a whole bunch of rounds. So bringing him along in this situation may not only be impractical, but also a liability.

Ideally, Rodney should be going off-world on an as-needed basis. Or maybe 75% of off-world field trips. Mr. Science Geek shouldn't be out there wandering through the forest/desert so often. He has work on Atlantis; if Elizabeth stays behind, so should he, as they're in a similar position.

ii. Carson

Carson, on the other hand, had more reason to be going off-world than Rodney. None of the team have medical training, and while he wasn't too much better than Rodney in terms of reactions, he's become better since the first season. And he has an ability that's always useful, too.

So, in theory, Carson had every reason to be going off-world. There was things said like "Carson was only in that episode to fulfill contract", but really, his reasons for being there were so much simpler. Really the question to ask would be Why was Rodney here?

(Ideally, in my own perfect world, Elizabeth and Carson would be going off-world most of the time because it's more fun when they tag along for the ride. But even I'll admit thats a bit impractical and just me being me. Or not.)

Okay. I'm done.

[Phenom]

Your idea certainly is logical and in reality McKay or a scientist would probably not go on every mission. The only thing that I can think of is that on most missions they came upon some ancient tech/gate dilemma/tech malfunction/sudoku puzzle that only McKay could solve.

Its a bit different to sending a team to another warzone on Earth as scientific expertise isn't necessary to solving potential problems.

[Xaeden]

If Mckay only went on missions where they knew, ahead of time, that there was going to be a need for him, they'd be dead several times over. They don't know when they're going to run into Ancient technology or be captured or have a problem with the gate. I can point to several examples, but I'll pick one..."Phantoms." By your standards there was no reason for Mckay to have been there. It was a rescue mission, just like "Common Ground," but because he was there, he was around to figure out how to shut off the Wraith device and save the lives of the core team. You can argue that Mckay is perhaps too important to be apart of a team in the first place, (the counter-argument is that Sheppard specifically wanted the best people on his team) but the skills he provides are necessary and to replace them with that of a medical doctor (rather than another science type) would put them at risk. They all know the basics of dealing with injuries, but knowing the basics of how to hack a Wraith computer should they be captured is not something that's as easy to learn.

As to your other point of Mckay's limited field experience putting them in danger, Beckett wasn't much better and for whatever little it is worth, those screw ups helped him. He became less timid in the field, a little more capable, (by season 4 he was standing his ground against a hail of arrows so he could provide cover fire for the rest of his team instead of finding somewhere to hide) and thus wasn't such a danger on missions where he was absolutely needed. But, of course, in a perfect world he would've had proper training ahead of time or they would've found someone with a mentality that is more suited to being in field.

[nxcalibur]

I see your point in not sending McKay on every mission, but I have to disagree in terms of Carson.
Sheppard as member of the military has basic medical training (even as a pilot) but he may not be able to exercise his knowledge since he is in charge if something goes wacko. Ronon I guess has a certain basic knowledge as well, you know being a former military guy and his time as runner (he must have been able to care for himself). And Teyla, well I think about the same level as Ronon and John in terms of medical experience.
But there is no reason to send the chief medical guy on a regular mission. For rescues or scientific issues sure, why not, but not on a regular basis.

[JoeRocks]

Rodney was the man who could think his way out of situations and would often save the day with his scientific knowledge. He was therefore an excellent foil for Sheppard's tactical intelligence. I liked the way McKay slowly became better with guns too and he was an integral part of the team. He created a balance in the way that Carson didn't.

[Squinty]

Theres nothing in the rulebook to say you cant have a 5 man team.......

[Butlersgate]

i don't think carson had more of a reason, he always needed to stay in atlantis to tend to the wounded when they came back through the gate, if he was injured then who would heal him? Mckay added depth to the team and nearly every episode at some point they needed his experts in ancient tech to get out a sticky situations. and personally i don't think the carson/sheppard arguments would be that funny.

[magictrick]

I'm pretty sure McKay had more reasons to go off-world. I mean the entire team would be dead several times over if Rodney wasn't there to figure out Ancient or Wraith or some other technology and help the rest of the team.

I think with Rodney being there in the first place, he solves the problem and avoids any serious harm coming to the rest of the team that would be so serious that a doctor (Carson) would be needed.

However, I do believe a 5-man team could have also proven pretty useful with Carson also tagging along.

But overall, it makes more sense to have a scientist along than a doctor when exploring new planets with alien technology.

[spinny magee]

Hmmm without rodney the team would be nothing.

[chevron670]

not having rodney on every mission would be like taking carter away from SG1 they would be dead by now

[Reiko]

Its a bit different to sending a team to another warzone on Earth as scientific expertise isn't necessary to solving potential problems.

And same as about half of Atlantis' missions.

I can point to several examples, but I'll pick one..."Phantoms." By your standards there was no reason for Mckay to have been there. It was a rescue mission, just like "Common Ground," but because he was there, he was around to figure out how to shut off the Wraith device and save the lives of the core team.

No, it would only force the other characters to find a solution on their own without using Rodney to come up with a quick fix, a last minute solution. It's all about a variation of changing the plot to fit the characters than changing the characters to fit the plot.

Besides, why not give Ronon, Teyla, Elizabeth or Carson their time to shine? It's Rodney and Sheppard 75% of the time.

But there is no reason to send the chief medical guy on a regular mission. For rescues or scientific issues sure, why not, but not on a regular basis

As a more current counterpoint, he's not really the chief medical guy anymore.

I liked the way McKay slowly became better with guns too and he was an integral part of the team. He created a balance in the way that Carson didn't.

And Carson (and Elizabeth also) don't create a balance in the team? Carson and Elizabeth both kept Rodney in check and balanced. Elizabeth also kept John balanced. With them, Rodney was lowered more down to earth and they brought out a different side in him, than, say, Sheppard did.

Would you say the same thing about Ronon or Teyla?

Theres nothing in the rulebook to say you cant have a 5 man team.......

Yup. Or a six man.

Hmmm without rodney the team would be nothing.

Do you really think that? Why? Is the show really that dependant on Rodney's participation?

not having rodney on every mission would be like taking carter away from SG1 they would be dead by now

No, it might just force the others to solve the problem without resorting to a Rodney ex machina.

[Crazedwraith]

Carson was the chief medical officer; there's no way he should have been on the field team. You might make a case for having a medic in case of injuries but that's what field medics are for, not fully trained and above all civilian doctors.

The same logic applies to Rodney of course, as a head of department he should have been too busy running it to go on missions but they certainly do need him on someone like him on field missions.

What are the team's primarily mission? Discovery and retrieval of ZPMs and other alien tech for the defence of Atlantis. You need a scientist for that. You need a guy fluent in alien technology and how to figure it out and operate it. You can even make a case for him to go on combat missions involving the wraith. Again, he's the one that's actually good at figuring out the tech. Overriding doors, finding floor plans, hijacking spaceships. You need a tech guy for that. That's why Rodney comes along.

[ciannwn]

Beckett would have had more reason to go offworld if the writers had come up with more plots which required his expertise.

[Reiko]

The same logic applies to Rodney of course, as a head of department he should have been too busy running it to go on missions but they certainly do need him on someone like him on field missions.

You make a point. So essentially, maybe Carson and Rodney both have the same reason if you're going to make the head of the department arguement. They're too busy.

You need a tech guy for that. That's why Rodney comes along.

Well, Rodney's the boss, the head of his department, as you mentioned before. Shouldn't Zelenka be going on missions then as Rodney should be heading his department back home?

Beckett would have had more reason to go offworld if the writers had come up with more plots which required his expertise.

Another point. I could come up with tons of scenarios why Carson and Elizabeth should go off-world, but TPTB aren't as bright, I hear.

also, have they forgotten about Teyla?

[Killdeer]

I'm not sure what you're arguing here I guess. Not trying to be rude - seriously. I just don't understand. Are you saying Rodney shouldn't have been part of the regular team? That it should only have been Sheppard, Teyla, and Ronon? I guess to me, that's like saying Carter shouldn't have been part of SG-1, or that Daniel shouldn't have been. *confused* Hey, if that's your opinion, cool - everyone's welcome to their own viewpoint, even if it's not one I happen to share - I'm just not sure what you're getting at here.

I mean, personally, I think there's far more reason for Rodney to be going offworld then either Elizabeth or Carson (or Keller). Although that doesn't mean I don't think they couldn't have found more reasons to take Elizabeth off-world, or that Carson was always needed. But as part of Sheppard's team, Rodney goes where Sheppard's team goes. The only way to undo that is to make him not a regular member of Sheppard's team - have some other science person fill that role, or have it only be a three person team. If you're not a Rodney fan, maybe that sounds good, I don't know. I personally am not a fan of any scenario where Rodney is not a regular part of the team. Do I think they overused him? Yes. Do I think they could have used the rest of the cast more effectively, including Elizabeth and Teyla? Definitely (I thought Carson was utilized just fine though, until they killed him anyway). But I don't think taking Rodney off the team would be the answer. At least I don't think it would have been a show I was interested in watching. *shrugs* Each to their own though.

Now in the example you mentioned, that was a specific rescue op, not a team mission, so you could say Rodney should have stayed behind. I don't think the whole comic relief with him was necessary - they tended to go back and forth in the show from beginning to end on how competant Rodney was with a gun. But for regular team missions where they're looking for alien tech they would need a science guy, and I don't think there's any less logic in having Rodney fill the role than there was in using Carter on SG-1. Carter was supposedly the smartest woman in the galaxy, so why not use someone less valuable?