Anti-Ship Thread

[darklilac]

I think it's non sense to have an anti-ship thread since there's only one ship in the show and it's the JS.
Any other type of romance it's minimal and the few besides the JS are done in a good way, like Pete/Sam or Teal'c/Ishta.
Fans hate the JS because it splitted the team and transformed Sam and Jack into two selfish stupid characters.
The majority of complaints are against the JS exclusive ship that left Teal'c and Daniel out of it.

[thor39]

Have a look at the who do you ship forthread there are a great many for example Daniel and Janet

[Dani347]

... Is it safe to say that while ship is not something we want to see on Stargate, one of the bigger reasons for that is because of its gross mishandling of the subject by the writer

Well, I think definitely recently this is the case. The writers can't write ship. And, also having it between two people you don't see any chemistry with, especially when it affects the dynamic of the team is jarring. Shippers can see it without non shippers seeing, so why is it necessary to make it so that everyone can see ship, especially since it has nothing to do with the show?

Since I think they write ship badly, I wouldn't want to see Pete, except for maybe an episode, just to show that he's still there, and I'd rather he be integrated into the Stargate storyline, rather than be just "Sam's boyfriend." It's too risky with these writers to assume that they'll be able to keep it up.

Have a look at the who do you ship forthread there are a great many for example Daniel and Janet

I think the post was specifically addressing the writers putting ship on the show, not pairings that fans would like. As far as I know, the writers never shipped Daniel and Janet. MS and TR played up some things, but it wasn't a canon part of the show. So far, if you're looking at ship as the literal abbreviation of a relationship, there's only been a few. Daniel/Sha're, Jack/Sara, Teal'c/Shaun'ac (spelling). Maybe Sam/Pete. If we use ship as anything ranging from other characters hinting of something more, the only one that has been sanctioned by the writers is Jack/Sam.

[ShadowMaat]

I think it's non sense to have an anti-ship thread since there's only one ship in the show and it's the JS.

If you think the thread is nonsense then by all means, feel free not to post here. As I said in my original post, the subject is not open to debate, here. If you want to discuss the pros/cons and various shades of gray, then you can revive the ship discussion thread.

Yes, S/J is the most blatant example, but for some, even "outside" relationships like Sam/Pete or Daniel/Sarah are too much and while I love Pete, I can see where they're coming from. The writers have, in my opinion, developed a very depressing habit of centering stories/scenes around romantic entanglements and ignoring any important action/plots around them. I watch Stargate for the stories, not for the soap.

Since I think they write ship badly, I wouldn't want to see Pete, except for maybe an episode, just to show that he's still there, and I'd rather he be integrated into the Stargate storyline, rather than be just "Sam's boyfriend." It's too risky with these writers to assume that they'll be able to keep it up.

Unfortunately, Dani, I don't think the writers are capable of doing any justice to the Pete character whatsoever. Not with the "cloying boyfriend" attitude that some of them seem to have. They've already made up their minds about him, and what they've decided isn't good. For that reason, I'd be quite happy if we never saw Pete again.

[epiphany]

Have a look at the who do you ship forthread there are a great many for example Daniel and Janet

That is probably because the moderator who started the thread very conveniently left out an option to vote for Daniel/Sam ship. There are some true D/J'ers but in my experience alot of writers/supporters simply like it so they can pair off D/J because it keeps to keep them occupied in Jack/Sam ship stories), so they don't become 3rd wheels. Very convenient that he managed to leave out a very popular pairing like Daniel and Sam though--which has at least a couple yahoo groups(one with over 300 members) and many websites and videos devoted to it.

That said I am not for ANY ship within the show. I don't want ship between team members. I don't ship focused on Team members and other people. Daniel/Sha're was carried from the film and it really was kept very much in the background except for about 3 or 4 episodes over nearly 3 seasons. Same with Teal'c and his wife and Jack and Sara(Jack and Sara is the only one I come close to wanting on the show in the future).

So I am definitely Anti-ship.

[Dani347]

There are some true D/J'ers

Me! But, I belong here, because I didn't want it to be something that was official on the show. I only like it in fanfic.

[Gategrrl]

Me! But, I belong here, because I didn't want it to be something that was official on the show. I only like it in fanfic.

Yes, that's where I think ship belongs -- at least the inappropriate ship cough :: J&S :: cough. and other in-SGC pairings between the main characters.

In ship, the characters can get as sappy and as badly/cliche written (or well written) as the fans want/have the ability to write. At least if it stayed in fic, the rest of us who don't like it, wouldn't be afflicted with it, and we wouldn't have to suffer through badly written/acted ship on the show itself.

[SallyK]

Back on target, though... Is it safe to say that while ship is not something we want to see on Stargate, one of the bigger reasons for that is because of its gross mishandling of the subject by the writers? Because I think that's one of my bigger issues with it. I've seen subtle ship written before and when it's done right it's a beautiful thing- especially since its subtlety means that those who don't wanna see it don't have to- but the writers for Stargate seem to have adopted a lead-fisted approach and are making it so blatant that it's nearly (or even totally) impossible to ignore it. Instead of hard-hitting plotlines with occasional quips and looks, we "forget" the action and drama so that the characters can make moopy faces and talk about their "feelings". That I don't like.

One you start down the shippy path, forever will it dominate the show's destiny. Consume it, it will.

Exactly, that is very much how I feel. I know that a lot of shippers have seen something between Sam and Jack right from the beginning of the show, but no-one had to see it if they didn't want to. As it is now, I really think the writers are being just as unfair to the shippers as to everybody else - they keep teasing, while saying it'll never happen. I know "all publicity is good publicity" but I really don't see what they think they can achieve by annoying all the show's fans.

SallyK

[ShadowMaat]

I'm dragging this post back out of the depths because the more I read and the more I see, the less interested I am in ANY sort of ship on Stargate.

Ship is another way for fandom to become even more factionalized and hateful than it already is. It divides us instead of bringing us together. You're either WITH ship, or against us! And if you're against, may the gods have mercy on your soul.

TPTB play the sides against each other mercilessly. One cutesy "things aren't as they seem" comment here, another cutesy "don't pour the champagne yet" comment there... Things are bad enough without us being goaded to greater extremes. Say what you mean and mean what you say or don't say anything at all. That's MY opinion, right there.

I'd also like to know when Stargate became all about ship. What happened to great storylines and intriguing characters? No. These days it's all ship, ship, ship. "Sam loves Jack!" "Pete deserves to die!" "Sam loves Pete!" "Pete deserves to win Sam!"

Give me a bloody break. How about having some real, solid plotlines? I thought I saw some in New Order. I would like to THINK that great storylines will continue... and that people will actually SEE them instead of focusing SOLELY on who made goo-goo eyes at whom.

Affinity sounds like it could be a great ep. Lots of potential there. Even a bit of- dare I say it?- intrigue! But what is it that people are talking about? Ship! Screw the fact that there's a great story there, nevermind that it's about a character who tends to get neglected. No, it's all "OMG! How could they!" "AAhhh! I'm gonna vomit!" "How can she even consider it??"

Let's try and remember the PLOT, people!! You know? That incidental thing that happens between moments of abject ship??

And for pity's sake, there are more than three characters on the cursed show. Stargate isn't all about a love triangle! If you want that, go watch reruns of Friends. Let Stargate be itself!

[Anthro Girl]

I'd also like to know when Stargate became all about ship.

I'd like to know this too, but I suspect the answer I'd find would be that it all lies in an individual's interpretation of what they're seeing on the screen. I tend not to read discussions about upcoming episodes, but when I login and read discussions about a broadcasted episode, I'm always shocked about what people interpret as something called "shippy"; i.e., Carter was happy to see O'Neill alive ---> OMG! They're in love! She hates Pete! They're gonna get married! WTF? Where the hell did that come from? Could it possibly be that one team member was just happy to see that another made it through the latest disaster? Oh heck no, that would be too simple...too easy...too much like real life. I must be an idiot... I guess people looking for soap opera are either going to see it, create it or complain that it isn't there.

How about having some real, solid plotlines? I thought I saw some in New Order. I would like to THINK that great storylines will continue... and that people will actually SEE them instead of focusing SOLELY on who made goo-goo eyes at whom.

Again, people see what they want to see...or don't see what they think they're entitled to see. It never ceases to amaze me. Of course there are relationships between characters on the show. D'oh...it's a ensemble cast. What are they supposed to do? Ignore each other? Where those relationships go is - or should be - part of the character development within the greater picture of the Stargate plot and that's in the hands of the writers and actors who develop these characters.

Affinity sounds like it could be a great ep. Lots of potential there. Even a bit of- dare I say it?- intrigue! But what is it that people are talking about? Ship! Screw the fact that there's a great story there, nevermind that it's about a character who tends to get neglected. No, it's all "OMG! How could they!" "AAhhh! I'm gonna vomit!" "How can she even consider it??"

I couldn't have said that better myself. I was even trying to avoid the big spoilers for Affinity before the fallout vomited all over my threads. Now that it's been totally spoiled for me, I have to say that I'm really looking forward to it and I have to say that I'm half-hoping that some of the 'shippers get screwed. After some of the discussions I've seen lately I'm just feeling mean that way.

FWIW, I'm not pro- or anti-ship of any stripe (except for the Furlings and anything...but that's another story). I'm pro-Stargate, pro-character-development and probably more pro-really-cool-stuff-blowing-up than I should be. I just love the show because it's fun and I keep tuning in every week to see what crazy stuff they'll be up to next. I sort of miss the days when all I had to tweak my interest was the little blurb at the end of the weekly episode. I guess I only have myself to blame for that. Maybe my standards aren't as high as some others, but at least I'm not losing sleep over it or debating whether or not I should burn my DVDs.

[uknesvuinng]

I'm dragging this post back out of the depths because the more I read and the more I see, the less interested I am in ANY sort of ship on Stargate.

Ship is another way for fandom to become even more factionalized and hateful than it already is. It divides us instead of bringing us together. You're either WITH ship, or against us! And if you're against, may the gods have mercy on your soul.

TPTB play the sides against each other mercilessly. One cutesy "things aren't as they seem" comment here, another cutesy "don't pour the champagne yet" comment there... Things are bad enough without us being goaded to greater extremes. Say what you mean and mean what you say or don't say anything at all. That's MY opinion, right there.

I'd also like to know when Stargate became all about ship. What happened to great storylines and intriguing characters? No. These days it's all ship, ship, ship. "Sam loves Jack!" "Pete deserves to die!" "Sam loves Pete!" "Pete deserves to win Sam!"

Give me a bloody break. How about having some real, solid plotlines? I thought I saw some in New Order. I would like to THINK that great storylines will continue... and that people will actually SEE them instead of focusing SOLELY on who made goo-goo eyes at whom.

Affinity sounds like it could be a great ep. Lots of potential there. Even a bit of- dare I say it?- intrigue! But what is it that people are talking about? Ship! Screw the fact that there's a great story there, nevermind that it's about a character who tends to get neglected. No, it's all "OMG! How could they!" "AAhhh! I'm gonna vomit!" "How can she even consider it??"

Let's try and remember the PLOT, people!! You know? That incidental thing that happens between moments of abject ship??

And for pity's sake, there are more than three characters on the cursed show. Stargate isn't all about a love triangle! If you want that, go watch reruns of Friends. Let Stargate be itself!

Go Shadow, Go!

Sorry... got caught up in the moment. But I agree, while ship can be nice, even if not essential to the plot, it should never be the focus of the show. And some episodes *cough*Grace*cough* seemed written entirely around ship. We get a weak plot, with 37 minutes of Sam thinking about her life that summarizes into "She needs a man". This is Strong Independant Woman Making it in a "Man's" World? I'm not a feminist by any means, but if I were a woman, I'd be insulted by the implication I needed a man to be emotionally complete. As a man, I'm annoyed by people that think it odd that I make no big effort in the dating scene. I'm perfectly happy without a girlfriend, and while I'd certainly like to be married and have a family some day, I don't NEED it. I can't think of any person I've ever known that "needed" someone, just people who were emotionally immature and merely thought they needed someone. And to see someone that was so matured previously turned into a child in such a manner bugs me to no end, even if it is just TV.

S8 "New Order" Spoilers









Personally, I still like the idea of Pete, it was even important to the C(?) plot involving Sam and Fifth. Fifth wanted her to love him and spend her life with him, so who did he choose to impersonate? Pete! Not Jack, but Pete, which suggests to me that Fifth, looking through her whole mind, sees that she's far happier being with Pete than with any other man. And if Sam swings around to being portrayed as secretly pining for Jack again, I'm gonna be uber-annoyed. We need S1 Sam to sneak in from an alternate reality and replace S7 Sam, and get back to the stuff that makes Stargate Stargate, mythology, the stargate (not just the big round thing, but all the things its affecting), and really big explosions!

[gange57]

I think this thread is a great idea. I have been duped a few times by clicking on threads titled, "OMG! This can't be true!" or "Stargate is officially over" blah, blah, blah. Expecting to read something along the lines of the discontinuation of Stargate or something serious that affects the outcome of the series, I am instead duped into something about the return of Pete? LOL. If the TPTB ever decided to eliminate all the shipping, I couldn't be happier. I don't understand the obsession the shippers have with Stargate. This isn't a soap opera, it's Sci-Fi.

[aAnubiSs]

SHiP SUX!

[ShadowMaat]

Well, speaking personally, I don't think ship itself sucks, exactly, but the way it's written can definitely suck and more often than not, the reaction of certain types of fans can make ship an absolute misery for everyone else.

[GateGipsy]

My favourite kind of 'ship' (if that is what it is) is the non-ship kind. UST if you like. One of my top favourite movies is First Contact, and the chemistry between Picard and Lily was brilliant. And yet, refreshingly, they didn't fall into the trap of 'romance'.

See, that's why Sam and Mackay work so well!