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Killdeer
March 29th, 2007, 02:52 PM
Yeppers, there is indeed an anti-Daniel/Vala thread (which I've spent a ton of time on lately... suppose you can guess why *snort*).

Yep - I haven't seen Unending yet, but I've heard it was pretty rough for the anti shippers.


There are a few characters I could start anti threads for myself... although for some I'm not 100% anti-anti... more like anti-recent or so. (if that makes any sense, lol)

Yeah, I'm more of an anti-recent person myself. I was just surprised at the Teyla thread.


I don't watch Atlantis so I would feel hypocritical commenting on the relationships in the show.
I did watch SG1 and while I wouldn't have wanted to see much on screen romance for any of the characters and certainly wouldn't have wanted any on screen relationship between any team members (what I like in fanfic is an entirely different matter), the S/J relationship is my hot button.
I do sometimes wonder if it would have been such an issue for me if it had been better written. I guess we will never know now.

FF :nox:

I agree about the S/J relationship. S/J really effected my feelings about both characters, although I have to admit that Sam got the brunt of it. I confess I was able to forgive Jack more because of his personality (I have a weakness for snarky and irreverent), but it did badly damage my respect for the character as a leader.


Oh yes we need to keep the anti ship threads going amongst a sea of shippyness:)

I seem to remember seeing an anti Shep/Weir thread some time ago, but I don't think it's really relevant now, what with Weir becoming recurring (whatever that actually means) in S4. However I think some of the Atlantis anti ship threads became an excuse for shippers of one pairing to bash another pairing.

True. Although I can't find any Atlantis anti-ship threads at the moment. I thought I had seen some, but when I tried to find them, they'd disappeared.


I don't know if TPTB plan any shippy stuff for SGA but I think they'd more likely do something with Shep/Teyla if they did, which I hope they don't because Teyla desparately needs some character development and that IMO that doesn't include becoming Shep's girlfriend:(
I hope SGA can be kept free of shipping, at least between main characters, and they don't end up doing something horrible like unending on SGA.

Shep/Teyla is the most likely candidate in my opinion also. But I seriously hope they don't. They've got so much going on in Season 4 that trying to work in the 'ship too....and, as much as I love Shep, Teyla seems too mature for him. :D Plus, it didn't work when they did it in SG1. In my opinion it hurt the whole team. Right now the Atlantis team is at a good place friendshipwise. Teyla and Ronan need some development badly, but in the context of the team family, not through repeating SG1 mistakes. And you're right - Teyla deserves better than just to be Shep's love interest. There's so much they could do with Teyla, so much potential there. But really, if they don't go that direction in Season four, I'll be surprised.

JessM
March 30th, 2007, 08:55 AM
Yep - I haven't seen Unending yet, but I've heard it was pretty rough for the anti shippers.

Indeed it was. As more than one person has said, they managed to p!ss off both the anti-shippers and the S/J shippers at the same time (never thought it could be done, but apparently it was).

The Daniel/Vala stuff was just way too much. If it was very very subtle or sort of implied, I'd still have a problem with it but it wouldn't have bugged me as much. But what they did is take a huge hammer and hit us over the head with it, again and again that the two are one happy couple and we'd better not forget it. I couldn't even enjoy many of the so-called "team" scenes because the D/V ship completely overshadowed it, in that Daniel and Vala were seated with the team but were basically ignoring everyone except each other.

The only saving grace was that everything was "reset" at the end, but of course the shippers are crowing about how the ship is now canon becaused D & V kissed and did the deed quite often over the course of the 50 years they were stuck on the ship. They say that being stuck in this situation forced them to come to terms with these feelings they had for each other that were deeply buried. I personally haven't seen anything over the course of the season to indicate that such feelings existed between them... but then again I've become basically anti-ship onscreen...

I realize others liked it and good on them, but I personally didn't care for it. If that makes me no longer a true fan or not a true Daniel fan or anything like that, then so be it. I miss the old days, where the team was more like a family and they didn't sacrifice most of the friendships onscreen.

Rant over now... sorry :o

Trek_Girl42
March 30th, 2007, 06:32 PM
WHERE has this thread been all my life? I was beginning to think there was no one else out there who shared this opinion. I guess it's because I never open this folder that I didn't know about it. :P

Ship doesn't belong in Stargate, and S/J has been driving me insane since I started watching the show (and diminished my view of Sam's character unfortunately). I haven't seen Unending yet, and I haven't been spoiled, so I really can't comment on that one though. ;)

Killdeer
March 30th, 2007, 06:55 PM
I miss the old days, where the team was more like a family and they didn't sacrifice most of the friendships onscreen.

Rant over now... sorry :o

For what? :) Rants against any and all 'ships are acceptable here, the way I understand it! :D And I totally agree. I prefer the team as a family too, both on SG1 and Atlantis.


WHERE has this thread been all my life? I was beginning to think there was no one else out there who shared this opinion. I guess it's because I never open this folder that I didn't know about it. :P

Took me a while to find this thread too. I had to specifically go looking for it. It doesn't get as much activity as some of the others so it gets pushed down pretty fast. But hey, welcome! Stick around! The more the merrier I say. :D


Ship doesn't belong in Stargate, and S/J has been driving me insane since I started watching the show (and diminished my view of Sam's character unfortunately). I haven't seen Unending yet, and I haven't been spoiled, so I really can't comment on that one though. ;)

Agree with you on all points (except that I have been spoiled for Unending-not impressed). Umm, there is a specific anti-S/J ship thread around here that gets a lot more activity, if you're interested.

Anti Sam/Jack ship thread (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=314)

Not trying to send you away, though. If you're just anti-ship in general this is the place to be! :D

Trek_Girl42
March 30th, 2007, 07:07 PM
For what? :) Rants against any and all 'ships are acceptable here, the way I understand it! :D

Took me a while to find this thread too. I had to specifically go looking for it. It doesn't get as much activity as some of the others so it gets pushed down pretty fast. But hey, welcome! Stick around! The more the merrier I say. :D

Agree with you on all points (except that I have been spoiled for Unending-not impressed). Umm, there is a specific anti-S/J ship thread around here that gets a lot more activity, if you're interested.

Anti Sam/Jack ship thread (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=314)

Not trying to send you away, though. If you're just anti-ship in general this is the place to be! :D
Anti-Stargate Ship in general. In the romantic sense of the term. I'm a friend-shipper of the team big time(both SG-1 and SGA). I think that is what the show has been about right from season one, and most of these ships/shipping seems to diminish/ignore that aspect. Which kinda makes me sad. :thoranime01:A little flirtiness is okay- for example I love Daniel and Vala as a duo, just not in the romantic couple sense. :S








#7000 :eek:

Killdeer
March 30th, 2007, 07:14 PM
Anti-Stargate Ship in general. In the romantic sense of the term. I'm a friend-shipper of the team big time(both SG-1 and SGA). I think that is what the show has been about right from season one, and most of these ships/shipping seems to diminish/ignore that aspect. Which kinda makes me sad. :thoranime01:A little flirtiness is okay- for example I love Daniel and Vala as a duo, just not in the romantic couple sense. :S

#7000 :eek:

I completely agree with you. Any time a 'ship is focused on, it seems to be to the detriment of the other relationships. I like it better when the friendship/family aspect is focused on. The early seasons of SG1 were the best team-wise IMO, and Season 3 of SGA had some great episodes for that. I'm hoping that doesn't change for season 4.

Killdeer
March 30th, 2007, 10:30 PM
I think there's an anti Daniel/Vala thread, and I think I've also seen a anti Teyla/Ronan thread. Surprisingly, no anti Shep/Teyla thread or anti Shep/Weir thread. Maybe I'll have to start them. I'll wait until Season four airs though. Poor Teyla. She's really getting beat right now. She's the only character to have her own anti thread all to herself.

EDIT: I take it back - the anti Teyla/Ronan thread seems to have mysteriously disappeared. Wonder what happened?


I can't find any Atlantis anti-ship threads at the moment. I thought I had seen some, but when I tried to find them, they'd disappeared.

I don't normally quote myself, but I wanted to post a correction.

<major red face> :o :o :o I made a stupid mistake when looking in the Characters & Relationships forum. I still haven't figured everything out yet, even after being here for two or three months. I didn't realize that you could adjust your date range to see older threads. The default is 2 weeks, and that gives you about four pages, and I stupidly thought that's all there was. :o Anyway.....so yes, all the other anti-ship threads are there, in one form or another. I had to go back a year to find the anti Shep/Teyla thread. There's also other anti-character threads, so Teyla isn't all by herself. :o Maybe you all knew that and were just laughing at my ignorance! :D Anyway, even after finding all those threads, I think I like the general anti-ship idea the best. It certainly cuts down on ship wars. ;) And now, I really should sign off and go to bed! Good night you all.

JessM
April 1st, 2007, 06:33 PM
I completely agree with you. Any time a 'ship is focused on, it seems to be to the detriment of the other relationships. I like it better when the friendship/family aspect is focused on. The early seasons of SG1 were the best team-wise IMO, and Season 3 of SGA had some great episodes for that. I'm hoping that doesn't change for season 4.

I loved the early seasons of SG-1 for the team dynamic. You didn't really get the feeling that one pairing was being too heavily focused on because there was such a good mix from episode to episode.

I did notice some good team moments in S3 of SGA (one in particular that I can remember was a pretty nice one at the end of McKay and Mrs. Miller). I'm hoping we can expect more of the same in S4.

Killdeer
April 1st, 2007, 06:52 PM
I loved the early seasons of SG-1 for the team dynamic. You didn't really get the feeling that one pairing was being too heavily focused on because there was such a good mix from episode to episode.

I did notice some good team moments in S3 of SGA (one in particular that I can remember was a pretty nice one at the end of McKay and Mrs. Miller). I'm hoping we can expect more of the same in S4.

McKay & Mrs Miller was an awesome episode. ;)

Col. Shadow Quinn
April 6th, 2007, 11:57 PM
They should've focused more on the team finding cool technology and and stuff instead of ship/slash. That's what the show is about: A team of misfits going to other planets to find cool, advanced technology that can be used to defend Earth and improve overall quality of life.

Killdeer
April 13th, 2007, 02:17 PM
Just bumping this thread up! Gotta keep it alive for those of us who don't like ship, but don't want to get caught in the ship wars! :D

Frostfox
April 13th, 2007, 02:39 PM
Just bumping this thread up! Gotta keep it alive for those of us who don't like ship, but don't want to get caught in the ship wars! :D

Laughs, it doesn't feel like war, feels like discussion, which is good.

I never have anything to say about Atlantis ship, I don't watch the show (sad but true, I'm not much of a media fan and tend to only watch one show at a time) but reading peoples ideas and complaints is still interesting.

FF :nox:

Killdeer
April 13th, 2007, 02:50 PM
Laughs, it doesn't feel like war, feels like discussion, which is good.

I never have anything to say about Atlantis ship, I don't watch the show (sad but true, I'm not much of a media fan and tend to only watch one show at a time) but reading peoples ideas and complaints is still interesting.

FF :nox:

*grin* Yes, discussion is good - you're right. I just wanted an excuse to bump this thread up! :) It tends to get lost among the ship specific threads.

Frostfox
April 13th, 2007, 02:58 PM
*grin* Yes, discussion is good - you're right. I just wanted an excuse to bump this thread up! :) It tends to get lost among the ship specific threads.

I don't mind that; when it comes to the anti ship threads, no news is usually good news. If we need the threads they are always there to vent in when the brown sugary stuff hits the fan.

Of course, SG1 is now closed canon so there will be less anti ship talk than there was when it was an ongoing series.

FF :nox:

Killdeer
April 13th, 2007, 03:01 PM
I don't mind that; when it comes to the anti ship threads, no news is usually good news. If we need the threads they are always there to vent in when the brown sugary stuff hits the fan.

Of course, SG1 is now closed canon so there will be less anti ship talk than there was when it was an ongoing series.

FF :nox:

True.... though there's always the movies. :)

Frostfox
April 13th, 2007, 03:05 PM
True.... though there's always the movies. :)

Much more limited audience, for joe public, for most of the people viewing the show, it's over with the end of season ten.
They can still try to bugger it up in the films but far fewer people will be watching and if I don't like what they are selling, I don't need to buy the discs.

FF :nox:

Killdeer
April 13th, 2007, 03:10 PM
Much more limited audience, for joe public, for most of the people viewing the show, it's over with the end of season ten.
They can still try to bugger it up in the films but far fewer people will be watching and if I don't like what they are selling, I don't need to buy the discs.

FF :nox:

I thought they were straight to DVD? :confused:

Anyway, yeah, you're right. I've sorta had a thought that they might kill Jack off in the second movie. I'm not sure why. It seems like it would be a stupid thing to do - Jack is a major audience draw, but... RDA isn't getting any younger. What do you think? It would certainly be a resolution for the S/J shippers, although not the one they've been wanting.

Frostfox
April 13th, 2007, 03:17 PM
I thought they were straight to DVD? :confused:

Anyway, yeah, you're right. I've sorta had a thought that they might kill Jack off in the second movie. I'm not sure why. It seems like it would be a stupid thing to do - Jack is a major audience draw, but... RDA isn't getting any younger. What do you think? It would certainly be a resolution for the S/J shippers, although not the one they've been wanting.

They are straight to DVD, that's what I meant, for most tv viewers the show is over and it didn't end with the white wedding on the Gate ramp, hurrah! for common sense and good taste. :)

RDA isn't getting any younger, though he's still in very good nick for his age, I think his action hero days are over (remember how silly The Shatner looked when he tred to keep that image past his sell by date?) perhaps a heroic death isn't out of the question? Though I'd rather they didn't do that.

FF :nox:

nihela
April 13th, 2007, 03:23 PM
I thought they were straight to DVD? :confused:

Anyway, yeah, you're right. I've sorta had a thought that they might kill Jack off in the second movie. I'm not sure why. It seems like it would be a stupid thing to do - Jack is a major audience draw, but... RDA isn't getting any younger. What do you think? It would certainly be a resolution for the S/J shippers, although not the one they've been wanting.


They are straight to DVD, that's what I meant, for most tv viewers the show is over and it didn't end with the white wedding on the Gate ramp, hurrah! for common sense and good taste. :)

RDA isn't getting any younger, though he's still in very good nick for his age, I think his action hero days are over (remember how silly The Shatner looked when he tred to keep that image past his sell by date?) perhaps a heroic death isn't out of the question? Though I'd rather they didn't do that.

FF :nox:

I think they have something in store for RDA, too. It's called retirement so that Sam and Jack can get married !!! Thus explaining the wedding photo on Sam's desk from the Atlantis set !!!

grasshopper64
April 13th, 2007, 03:35 PM
I thought they were straight to DVD? :confused:

Anyway, yeah, you're right. I've sorta had a thought that they might kill Jack off in the second movie. I'm not sure why. It seems like it would be a stupid thing to do - Jack is a major audience draw, but... RDA isn't getting any younger. What do you think? It would certainly be a resolution for the S/J shippers, although not the one they've been wanting.


Nooooooo, they can't do that:( I remember that there was speculation that Jack might be killed off in The Shroud, thankfully that was completely untrue.
I realise it is nothing new for TPTB to kill off popular characters but I would hope they wouldn't go there.

Yep with the movies we just don't know what they will do, hopefully nothing ship wise but you never can tell. Similar with Atlantis, I've not seen anything indicating they're going to do anything shippy with anyone unless I missed something, but again, who knows?

I think a lot of people are taking a wait and see attitude with the movies, in that they want to know what's in them, for various reasons, before they fork out the money for them. Personally I'd like to know if there is any ship before I see them, that way I'm prepared:)

Frostfox
April 13th, 2007, 03:44 PM
I think they have something in store for RDA, too. It's called retirement so that Sam and Jack can get married !!! Thus explaining the wedding photo on Sam's desk from the Atlantis set !!!

Yuch, do we have a vomit smiley?
What wedding photo? I don't watch Atlantis. Poor Sam, there is obviously no escape for her. She moves to another galaxy and still can't escape the stigma following her.

FF :nox:

Killdeer
April 13th, 2007, 03:53 PM
I think they have something in store for RDA, too. It's called retirement so that Sam and Jack can get married !!! Thus explaining the wedding photo on Sam's desk from the Atlantis set !!!

whoa whoa wait! What wedding photo???? :confused:

grasshopper64
April 13th, 2007, 04:13 PM
whoa whoa wait! What wedding photo???? :confused:

Relax people, from what I've seen the photo is of Jack and Sam fishing not a wedding pic - I suspect the person who posted that might be an S/J shipper:cool: Apparently on a set tour there were photos of Daniel, Cassie, Janet and the S/J one - why S/J and not a team one like Jack had seems completely inappropriate to me. But it isn't known if said pics will actually appear on screen on were put there because people were looking round.

Frostfox
April 13th, 2007, 04:22 PM
Relax people, from what I've seen the photo is of Jack and Sam fishing not a wedding pic - I suspect the person who posted that might be an S/J shipper:cool: Apparently on a set tour there were photos of Daniel, Cassie, Janet and the S/J one - why S/J and not a team one like Jack had seems completely inappropriate to me. But it isn't known if said pics will actually appear on screen on were put there because people were looking round.

Phew, if it's only a shipper out to cause trouble, I won't worry about it.

FF :nox:

JessM
April 13th, 2007, 08:28 PM
Yeah, from what I've heard it sounds like it's just pics of Sam's closest friends - sort of like her old family (which SG-1 undoubtedly was, along with Janet and Cassie).

Frostfox
April 15th, 2007, 01:48 PM
Yeah, from what I've heard it sounds like it's just pics of Sam's closest friends - sort of like her old family (which SG-1 undoubtedly was, along with Janet and Cassie).

Well, that's fine. And if it's a shot of them fishing from Möbius, it just confirms it was a Team (read: family) trip as either Daniel or Teal'c must have taken it.

FF :nox:

JessM
April 15th, 2007, 04:24 PM
Exactly.

Trek_Girl42
April 19th, 2007, 11:35 PM
Teeny tiny Line in the Sand spoiler:

Sam's password is fishing? That was really pathetic. :mckayanime22:

Cory Holmes
April 20th, 2007, 03:41 AM
Teeny tiny Line in the Sand spoiler:

Sam's password is fishing? That was really pathetic. :mckayanime22:

Not really. Think about it, the files that password is protecting are about her will and what to do after she dies. It only makes sense that she'd use a topic that SG-1 considers to be a fate worse than death, right? :)

jdjunkie
April 20th, 2007, 04:15 AM
Yuch, do we have a vomit smiley?
What wedding photo? I don't watch Atlantis. Poor Sam, there is obviously no escape for her. She moves to another galaxy and still can't escape the stigma following her.

FF :nox:

FF, there aren't enough vomit smileys in the universe to cope with that scenario :eek:
And, no it's not a wedding photo (and they say slashers are deluded :rolleyes: )
As someone downthread explains, there are, allegedly, pix of Daniel, Teal'c Cassie and one of Sam and Jack fishing on her desk in Atlantis. This, of course, translates into proof positive that they are sooo married. Funny. All it proves to me is that someone took a nice photo on the team visit to Jack's cabin :)
Yes ...no galaxy is far enough away to escape the Sword of Damocles that hangs over the poor woman wherever she goes.

grasshopper64
April 20th, 2007, 11:21 AM
Teeny tiny Line in the Sand spoiler:

Sam's password is fishing? That was really pathetic. :mckayanime22:


It one of those things that shippers will jump on and the rest of us can roll our eyes at. Maybe TPTB slipped it in there as a little nod to the shippers, who knows? Personally I think Sam probably choose the p/w after all of them went fishing after Threads/Moebius. Who knows maybe Daniel and Teal'c also have fishing/other Jack related p/ws:)

As has been said before on this and probably the anti S/J thread as well the whole equatting fishing with ship is getting a little old. And yes please let poor Sam go to Atlantis without dragging over any supposedly "shippy" references.

Frostfox
April 20th, 2007, 11:40 AM
Teeny tiny Line in the Sand spoiler:

Sam's password is fishing? That was really pathetic. :mckayanime22:

Don't worry about it, the fabulous love affair which eclipses all other things on the show has been reduced to a one word line which 99% of the audience won't notice. Sam went fishing with Daniel, Teal'c and her commanding officer. And always remember, Jack and Teal'c went fishing first.
:tealc: :D :jack:

FF :nox:

Commander Ivanova
April 21st, 2007, 02:36 AM
My take on 'fishing' as Sam's password that lets people into her files after her death is that she now views fishing as something she would rather die than do, something that will happen over her dead body. In other words she's finally realised the whole Jack thing was a huge mistake.

Ok, maybe it's a bit out there but it's how I like to rationalise the whole Sam/Jack shipping mess.

Frostfox
April 21st, 2007, 02:43 AM
My take on 'fishing' as Sam's password that lets people into her files after her death is that she now views fishing as something she would rather die than do, something that will happen over her dead body. In other words she's finally realised the whole Jack thing was a huge mistake.

Ok, maybe it's a bit out there but it's how I like to rationalise the whole Sam/Jack shipping mess.

Laughs. Whatever works for you!

If fans hadn't mentioned it, I doubt I'd have even noticed it, I bet most people didn't. Not really an earth shattering moment, I was enjoying the story more.
I really liked Line in the Sand, my only complaint was the poor makeup on AT, when Sam is dying, she looks way, way too hale and hearty, she should have been pale and sweaty and ill. Apart from that, a good episode.

FF :nox:

jdjunkie
April 21st, 2007, 03:35 AM
My take on 'fishing' as Sam's password that lets people into her files after her death is that she now views fishing as something she would rather die than do, something that will happen over her dead body. In other words she's finally realised the whole Jack thing was a huge mistake.

Ok, maybe it's a bit out there but it's how I like to rationalise the whole Sam/Jack shipping mess.

No more "out there" than thinking Sam and Sir are in any kind of lurve relationship or are even, gasp, married :D
And fishing as password: I like your thinking. Works for me. :)

Frostfox
April 21st, 2007, 03:43 AM
No more "out there" than thinking Sam and Sir are in any kind of lurve relationship or are even, gasp, married :D
And fishing as password: I like your thinking. Works for me. :)

You don't mean to say that people are taking the joke in 200 seriously? Next they will be thinking that Jack became invisible and was allowed off base and allowed his dog (which he doesn't own) to look as though it was driving his truck. Or that SG1 are actually puppets... actually, those are more likely scenarios! :D

FF :nox:

jdjunkie
April 21st, 2007, 03:51 AM
Oh no, it's much more, erm, subtle than that :rolleyes:
Putting this in spoilers cus of Season Ten stuff
It's a whole heap, er, one or two, er, well you decide, of things that all add up to them being soo married. Carter's softer voice (!) "fishing" as password (!) Sam says "D'oh" in LitS (!) the fact TPTB haven't shipped her off with anyone else (how can they when she's sooo, er, you get the picture). There's more to it but I've sort got that glazed eye thing going on even thinking about it

jd. Still convinced TPTB thought they'd given the shippers what they wanted in Threads, while the rest of us know they didn't ;)

Frostfox
April 21st, 2007, 05:48 AM
Oh no, it's much more, erm, subtle than that :rolleyes:
Putting this in spoilers cus of Season Ten stuff
It's a whole heap, er, one or two, er, well you decide, of things that all add up to them being soo married. Carter's softer voice (!) "fishing" as password (!) Sam says "D'oh" in LitS (!) the fact TPTB haven't shipped her off with anyone else (how can they when she's sooo, er, you get the picture). There's more to it but I've sort got that glazed eye thing going on even thinking about it

jd. Still convinced TPTB thought they'd given the shippers what they wanted in Threads, while the rest of us know they didn't ;)

Laughs. Well if that's all it is, I'm fine with it, let them have their fun, as long as they don't insist that the rest of fandom has to see their subtext, they can view it in any way they choose, just don't expect the rest of us to look at Season 10 like that.
For example, The Shroud was an absolute gift for we slash fans, thanks mostly to RDA and MS who know their fanbase well, but I wouldn't expect Joefan and the general viewing public to see it in that way. To them, it's just the usual Jack and Daniel banter, it's us, the slash fans who read "Sleepyhead" as being the way Jack wakes Daniel every morning they are together. And I've very happy with that, I don't want J/D thrown in everyones faces (mostly because I have no faith at all that the writers would make a good job of it) I love the subtext, it's so much more subtle and believable and fun than being given a cliched relationship by numbers with no surprises, no frission and no imagination.

FF :nox:

jdjunkie
April 21st, 2007, 06:48 AM
And there's the rub.
One of the main reasons the whole Sam/Jack ship mess makes me want to poke my eyes out with a sharp stick is that a number of those who ship for them (although by no means all) won't stop beating the dead horse until we're all subjected to one of the following:

1 The Gateroom wedding (I understand Hello! is bidding for the rights even as we speak) complete with Cassie as bridesmaid, Teal'c and Daniel as best men (cus they're shippers numero uno) and Hammond as Father of the Bride in Jacob's absence. :eek:

2 Sam walks into a briefing flashing a honkin' big solitaire diamond ring (inscribed J&S4eva2getha on the back). :eek: :eek:

3 Daniel asks, armed with a megaphone, in front of an entire squad of SFs, "So, Sam how was the honeymoon with the character formerly known as Brig Gen Jack O'Neill?" :eek: :eek: :eek:

Do you see where I'm going?

Keep it subtle; keep it ambiguous; let everyone take from the show what they will. I have nothing against shippers (of whatever persuasion) creating thier shippy universe ... as Michael said, "Whatever floats your boat." My problem comes when they insist on the rest of us seeing it ... not being allowed not to see it. And that goes for Daniel/Vala, too.

And total wor'd on what's hidden in your spoiler tags. Hurrah for subtext :D

sexy_penguin
April 21st, 2007, 09:25 AM
Gawds, I hate any kind of romantic flim-flam on my tv shows.. whether it be male/female, male/male, whatever. There's dents in my wall behind my tv I've thrown so much at it.

Commander Ivanova
April 22nd, 2007, 06:44 AM
Gawds, I hate any kind of romantic flim-flam on my tv shows.. whether it be male/female, male/male, whatever. There's dents in my wall behind my tv I've thrown so much at it.

Welcome sexy_penguin! If that's how you feel you're among friends here :D
As has been said above, subtext is all.

Killdeer
April 26th, 2007, 09:17 PM
Spoilers for The Seer:

Teyla is pregnant! My first reaction was not good. However, I was a little relieved when Joe said that they didn't want to have two characters facing parenthood in the same season, hopefully confirming that the father is not one of the Atlantis team. I hope hope that the case. I was so afraid, and still am a little, that they would make the father be Sheppard. Gahh.

Guess I just wanted to post my fears somewhere where it wouldn't be assumed that I'm pro Shep/Weir just because I'm anti Shep/Teyla. *grin* What does everyone else think about the pregnancy situation and the ship pitfalls that could await us?

BTW, I tried to revive the anti Shep/Teyla AND anti Shep/Weir thread. Didn't have any luck. Guess I'm more or less alone on this one. :S

Chailyn
April 26th, 2007, 09:52 PM
I didn't know a thread like this existed! :eek:

I don't mind subtext, in fact, I think it can be a lot of fun whether it's shippers or slashers, but, yeah, I don't want to see it on screen either. Mainly because I don't think it would be well-written (and there's so many examples of that to choose from).

I thought about joining a ship once because it looked like fun, but it can get pretty hostile, lol. I don't have that much devotion to my own relationships let alone a fictional couple. :D

And I don't know what to think about Teyla's bundle of joy. I have a sinking feeling that they're going to throw a relationship together to deal with this, which almost always makes the woman come out of it looking like an emotional twit. No daytime TV please! If S4's arc becomes a Jerry Springer's "Who's the Daddy?" I will scream.

Killdeer
April 26th, 2007, 10:05 PM
I didn't know a thread like this existed! :eek:

You're not the first to say that. :) I think it just doesn't get enough activity to compete with all the activity on the dozens of Thunk/Whump/WOW/Ship threads, and so it gets pushed down pretty fast.


And I don't know what to think about Teyla's bundle of joy. I have a sinking feeling that they're going to throw a relationship together to deal with this, which almost always makes the woman come out of it looking like an emotional twit. No daytime TV please! If S4's arc becomes a Jerry Springer's "Who's the Daddy?" I will scream.

Totally agree! But even if the father (if there is a "father") is not from the Atlantis expedition, it doesn't rule Shep/Teyla ship out. I suppose I'm just being paranoid, but I'm envisioning Shep getting all protective and caring when he finds out about Teyla's condition, and them bonding over it. *gag*. Oh well. Guess I should wait and see. :D

Killdeer
April 26th, 2007, 10:08 PM
:D Just a side note to Cory, who has mentioned being very anti McKay/Brown. Looks like you dodged a bullet this season. *grin* Joe M said that they were initially thinking about having Rodney and Katie have a baby.

Madeleine
April 26th, 2007, 10:58 PM
BTW, I tried to revive the anti Shep/Teyla AND anti Shep/Weir thread. Didn't have any luck. Guess I'm more or less alone on this one. :S

Sorry. It may be because there's no real S/T or S/W to be anti- at. As a non-shipper but keen UST-er for one of the above, I've seen plenty of stuff that I could choose to interpret as S/W but nothing that I couldn't not see as S/W if I wanted (does that make sense? :o)

Trek_Girl42
April 26th, 2007, 11:52 PM
:D Just a side note to Cory, who has mentioned being very anti McKay/Brown. Looks like you dodged a bullet this season. *grin* Joe M said that they were initially thinking about having Rodney and Katie have a baby.
No way.....seriously? That would be weird..... I'm wayyyy behind in Atlantis (just saw the end of season two), so I guess Katie is a mainstay?


What the frak is with all this talk of Atlantis pregnancies? Are they going to have to open a nursery? :P

Killdeer
April 27th, 2007, 05:54 AM
Sorry. It may be because there's no real S/T or S/W to be anti- at. As a non-shipper but keen UST-er for one of the above, I've seen plenty of stuff that I could choose to interpret as S/W but nothing that I couldn't not see as S/W if I wanted (does that make sense? :o)

Yes it does. *grin* I'm not really all that bent out of shape about it. Just all these latest spoilers have gotten me frustrated about S/T, but I know there's a lot of S/W fans in the anti S/T thread, and since I don't go for that pairing either.... :D And that's not a diss. I'm fine with people shipping who they want. But I didn't want to get into a discussion where people would be saying, "oh I know exactly what you're saying, Shep goes so much better with Weir", and I would be like.....uhhhh, well.... :)


No way.....seriously? That would be weird..... I'm wayyyy behind in Atlantis (just saw the end of season two), so I guess Katie is a mainstay?

Here's the relevant quotes from Joe's blog, warnings for spoilers!


....but we were considering making McKay a daddy. However, circumstances led us to change this particular storyline as we didn’t want to have two characters facing parenthood in the same season).

This particular quote also gives me some reassurance that Shep will not be the dad.... I'm still worried though. Sorry, just a little paranoid right now. :D


“…sounded an interesting history arc to McKay be daddy. Hypothetical, Katie Brown had been the mammy?”

Answer: That’s what we were considering.


What the frak is with all this talk of Atlantis pregnancies? Are they going to have to open a nursery? :P

Who knows? I can't imagine the baby being a permanant addition, but.....

All the Seer spoilers said was that Teyla feels that the situation is "complicated" and that's why she's keeping it a secret. I don't know what that might mean.

jdjunkie
April 27th, 2007, 07:14 AM
Well, this looks like good news for us long-suffering antis. :)
Regarding the SG1 movies, JM was asked "Any plans to finally let us all know whether Jack and Sam are a couple?" His reply: No plans for this.
Oh, I hope he's right :D

grasshopper64
April 27th, 2007, 09:38 AM
You're not the first to say that. :) I think it just doesn't get enough activity to compete with all the activity on the dozens of Thunk/Whump/WOW/Ship threads, and so it gets pushed down pretty fast.



Totally agree! But even if the father (if there is a "father") is not from the Atlantis expedition, it doesn't rule Shep/Teyla ship out. I suppose I'm just being paranoid, but I'm envisioning Shep getting all protective and caring when he finds out about Teyla's condition, and them bonding over it. *gag*. Oh well. Guess I should wait and see. :D




The seer

Oh I really hope not, at least it seems as though they are ruling out any of the main characters being the dad if there actually is a "dad" if it's wraith related or whatever. But yes I see the potential for some Shep/Teyla with this. Just a thought but we know that John was married before, I hope they don't bring in him saying he's always wanted to be a dad and offering to help bring up the child or something like that.
Not saying he shouldn't help Teyla but not so it becomes something shippy.

BTW I'm so glad they haven't gone with Mckay and Katie having a baby, I would have hated that. Yes I know people get together and unplanned pregnancies happen but I don't want to see it on stargate, it's not a soap!

discodiva
April 27th, 2007, 09:46 AM
Well, this looks like good news for us long-suffering antis. :)
Regarding the SG1 movies, JM was asked "Any plans to finally let us all know whether Jack and Sam are a couple?" His reply: No plans for this.
Oh, I hope he's right :D


Oh me too.......having just read in the Stargate Magazine that the "Most Romantic Stargate SG-1 Moment" as voted by its readers was, and I quote.....

"Jack sacrificing himself for Sam (Divide and Conquer)"

*goes to find brain bleach...:S *


Deeds xx

grasshopper64
April 27th, 2007, 09:50 AM
Well, this looks like good news for us long-suffering antis. :)
Regarding the SG1 movies, JM was asked "Any plans to finally let us all know whether Jack and Sam are a couple?" His reply: No plans for this.
Oh, I hope he's right :D


Yes I hope he's right although I take what he says with a pinch of salt these days ;) IMO.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that the movies are completely ship free (and I include D/V as much as S/J) and they have some good team friendship stuff which IMO has been lacking in recent times:)

Trek_Girl42
April 27th, 2007, 09:55 AM
Oh me too.......having just read in the Stargate Magazine that the "Most Romantic Stargate SG-1 Moment" as voted by its readers was, and I quote.....

"Jack sacrificing himself for Sam (Divide and Conquer)"

*goes to find brain bleach...:S *

*projectile vomits* :mckayanime07:

JessM
April 27th, 2007, 10:45 AM
Oh me too.......having just read in the Stargate Magazine that the "Most Romantic Stargate SG-1 Moment" as voted by its readers was, and I quote.....

"Jack sacrificing himself for Sam (Divide and Conquer)"

*goes to find brain bleach...:S *


Deeds xx

Out of curiosity, which issue of the magazine was that? I have the latest (?) one that's devoted pretty much entirely to Atlantis. I think I skipped an issue before that because I was certain it was heavily laden with Daniel/Vala...

And speaking of that, I'm with grasshopper... I almost wish someone would have asked JM if they're going to explore anything similar with Daniel and Vala in the movies. I'd do it myself but I'd already asked a few questions in the past (team and friendship-related of course) and he ignored me.

Not wanting to see any S/J ship personally but I also hope they stay away from D/V ship in the movies as well. All the subtext is fine but not anything where it's shoved down our throats, a la Unending (imho anyway).

discodiva
April 27th, 2007, 10:54 AM
Out of curiosity, which issue of the magazine was that? I have the latest (?) one that's devoted pretty much entirely to Atlantis. I think I skipped an issue before that because I was certain it was heavily laden with Daniel/Vala...



Says #16 on mine.....got a nice pic of Teal'c and Weir on the front, and interviews with Chris Judge, Torri Higginson, Cliff Simon and the Readers Awards Results....haven't checked the rest of it yet....but I think there's a pic of Sam and Daniel from 1969 in the "Covert Ops" bit....:sam: :daniel:


Deeds xx

jdjunkie
April 27th, 2007, 11:16 AM
Oh me too.......having just read in the Stargate Magazine that the "Most Romantic Stargate SG-1 Moment" as voted by its readers was, and I quote.....

"Jack sacrificing himself for Sam (Divide and Conquer)"

*goes to find brain bleach...:S *


Deeds xx

Don't recall any sacrificing. Do recall some embarrassingly cliched dialogue and some constipated looks from Jack ;) Oh, it's that ep where he said he cared about her more than he should ... just like he cared about Daniel and Teal'c. That one :rolleyes:
And Deeds, there ain't enough brain bleach in the universe, my friend :p
jd

maxbo
April 27th, 2007, 11:21 AM
And there's the rub.
One of the main reasons the whole Sam/Jack ship mess makes me want to poke my eyes out with a sharp stick is that a number of those who ship for them (although by no means all) won't stop beating the dead horse until we're all subjected to one of the following:


1 The Gateroom wedding (I understand Hello! is bidding for the rights even as we speak) complete with Cassie as bridesmaid, Teal'c and Daniel as best men (cus they're shippers numero uno) and Hammond as Father of the Bride in Jacob's absence. :eek:

2 Sam walks into a briefing flashing a honkin' big solitaire diamond ring (inscribed J&S4eva2getha on the back). :eek: :eek:

3 Daniel asks, armed with a megaphone, in front of an entire squad of SFs, "So, Sam how was the honeymoon with the character formerly known as Brig Gen Jack O'Neill?" :eek: :eek: :eek:


Do you see where I'm going?

Keep it subtle; keep it ambiguous; let everyone take from the show what they will. I have nothing against shippers (of whatever persuasion) creating thier shippy universe ... as Michael said, "Whatever floats your boat." My problem comes when they insist on the rest of us seeing it ... not being allowed not to see it. And that goes for Daniel/Vala, too.

And total wor'd on what's hidden in your spoiler tags. Hurrah for subtext :D

Exactly, I have nothing against shipping or those who see ship, I just don't want to see it on screen - at least not in the Stargate universe. Although I accept that TPTB has canonized S/J... somewhat, I'm just not interested in them as a couple and don't want to see any of the overt scenarios above played out on screen.

Too bad that some S/J shippers can't be satisfied with what they've already received over the years, which is more than the SGA shippers have received. I suppose that old adage is true - the more you have the more you want (or expect).


Well, this looks like good news for us long-suffering antis. :)
Regarding the SG1 movies, JM was asked "Any plans to finally let us all know whether Jack and Sam are a couple?" His reply: No plans for this.
Oh, I hope he's right :D

I wouldn't put much stock in that response because he was only referring to SGA and I can't see any reason why this issue would be addressed in SGA. Unfortunately, as far as I know, he has no control over the movies and I wouldn't be surprised if this issue rears its ugly head in at least one of the movies. :S


Oh me too.......having just read in the Stargate Magazine that the "Most Romantic Stargate SG-1 Moment" as voted by its readers was, and I quote.....

"Jack sacrificing himself for Sam (Divide and Conquer)"

*goes to find brain bleach...:S *


Deeds xx

Yeah, I read that poll result. The sad thing is that I really enjoyed Divide and Conquer and wouldn't have seen that scene as shippy if not for having read (over and over again) how shippy it was.

JessM
April 27th, 2007, 11:30 AM
Says #16 on mine.....got a nice pic of Teal'c and Weir on the front, and interviews with Chris Judge, Torri Higginson, Cliff Simon and the Readers Awards Results....haven't checked the rest of it yet....but I think there's a pic of Sam and Daniel from 1969 in the "Covert Ops" bit....:sam: :daniel:


Deeds xx

:D Thanks for the info Deeds :) That must be the latest one then... will have to check it out.

jdjunkie
April 27th, 2007, 11:35 AM
Regarding JM's comments: I was pretty sure he was referring to the movies because the questions bracketed with that one also referred to Hammond, The Furlings and the Tollan. Since I've never watched Atlantis, I don't know whether there's any reference point to said general, furry things and humourless things over there
Either way, I'm keeping my fingers crossed the ship won't rear its ugly head again, either in the movies or Atlantis :)

Chailyn
April 27th, 2007, 11:40 AM
Sorry. It may be because there's no real S/T or S/W to be anti- at. As a non-shipper but keen UST-er for one of the above, I've seen plenty of stuff that I could choose to interpret as S/W but nothing that I couldn't not see as S/W if I wanted (does that make sense? :o)

Total sense. :)

I'm all for subtext and fandom taking that and shipping or slashing, but I don't think actual romances on screen benefit the show. I keep thinking about some past TV shows: Lois & Clark, Frasier, X-Files, etc. As soon as a baby was brought into it or the couple hooked up, I lost interest. UST is a wonderful thing. The only show that had babies popping out everywhere was 7th Heaven and I was surprised how long that lasted. :shudder:



But even if the father (if there is a "father") is not from the Atlantis expedition, it doesn't rule Shep/Teyla ship out. I suppose I'm just being paranoid, but I'm envisioning Shep getting all protective and caring when he finds out about Teyla's condition, and them bonding over it. *gag*. Oh well. Guess I should wait and see.

Watch we'll find out that that Shep always wanted kids, but his ex-wife didn't. :rolleyes: This has the potential to be so bad and cheesy. Cue the General Hospital music. Anyway, it seems like it won't be a main cast member or even Michael, unless he did something to her in Vengeance. Maybe it's the Marine she has a crush on? It better not be Lorne. :zelenka26:

I guess the biggest reason I don't want ship on Atlantis is because I don't think the female characters are developed enough. The slashers will be pretty much relying on subtext, so that leaves the ladies. I don't think the writers know what to do with them half of the time. I think Weir could be a much more consistent. And Teyla. I've never been fond of Teyla.

I was hoping that this new dark story arc would change that and make her more appealing to me, but now it's the pregnancy arc. So, no, I'm not too happy.

These Atlantis ladies need massive development before they start hooking up, imo.

And I am so happy that Rodney isn't going to be a daddy. What were they thinking?! :mckay:

maxbo
April 27th, 2007, 11:43 AM
Regarding JM's comments: I was pretty sure he was referring to the movies because the questions bracketed with that one also referred to Hammond, The Furlings and the Tollan. Since I've never watched Atlantis, I don't know whether there's any reference point to said general, furry things and humourless things over there
Either way, I'm keeping my fingers crossed the ship won't rear its ugly head again, either in the movies or Atlantis :)

Well, that's good news because I'm hoping that we've seen all the overt ship that we're ever going to see in the Stargate Universe.

grasshopper64
April 28th, 2007, 01:22 AM
Just another update on JMs blog

Anonymous #2 writes: “Joe, joe, joe. *sighs and shakes head* You do realise that you've just pissed off the Sam/Jack shippers now on top of the Terri fans?”

Answer: By providing an honest answer to a question asked? Sorry, but we have no plans to work Carter’s love-life into Atlantis. For SG-1 movie-related questions, however, feel free to post them on Brad and Robert’s blogs.


Then he later says:

Linz writes: “I was wondering if the Wraith from Common Ground is definitely coming back in season 4?”

Answer: Yup. And we’re going to ship him with Carter.


Oh dear, likes to stir things up doesn't he. Anyway at least hopefully that means Sam can be free of ship on SGA. I think he's saying that the movies are down to BW & RCC - and as far as I know neither of those two have blogs:)

jdjunkie
April 28th, 2007, 03:37 AM
Well, at least he's cleared up the SGA/movies confusion (or maybe I was the one confused ;) )
I'm hopeful that with them (allegedly) steering clear of ship on Atlantis, it means they won't go there in the movies either.
Wouldn't it be great to have an SG1 movie with no teeth-clenching over every scene where Sam and Sir are in shot together? :eek:
Oh yes, and the same applies to Daniel and Vala, too. :P
jd

Frostfox
April 28th, 2007, 12:40 PM
Oh me too.......having just read in the Stargate Magazine that the "Most Romantic Stargate SG-1 Moment" as voted by its readers was, and I quote.....

"Jack sacrificing himself for Sam (Divide and Conquer)"

*goes to find brain bleach...:S *


Deeds xx


*projectile vomits* :mckayanime07:

Snicker. Some episodes should come with a health warning.

Warning: Excessive S/J shipping may cause extreme nausea and vomiting, not suitable for persons of a nervous disposition. Or with good taste. Or those who like to watch good SF, not poor melodrama.


Don't recall any sacrificing. Do recall some embarrassingly cliched dialogue and some constipated looks from Jack ;) Oh, it's that ep where he said he cared about her more than he should ... just like he cared about Daniel and Teal'c. That one :rolleyes:
And Deeds, there ain't enough brain bleach in the universe, my friend :p
jd

What got me was people saying he stayed there for her. Do they really think he would have left Daniel or Teal'c? Or Bra'tac, or Janet or even a weasel like Mayborne? That's why Jack is a hero, he wouldn't have left anyone, but of course, the writers had to lay the bathos on with a trowel; he has to care more for Sam than anyone else, to fulfil the cliche quotent, because being all about team is not enough.
Not to mention that he was trapped between two forcefields, Daniel and Teal'c had one between them and Jack at the entrance to the complex.


Exactly, I have nothing against shipping or those who see ship, I just don't want to see it on screen - at least not in the Stargate universe. Although I accept that TPTB has canonized S/J... somewhat, I'm just not interested in them as a couple and don't want to see any of the overt scenarios above played out on screen.

Too bad that some S/J shippers can't be satisfied with what they've already received over the years, which is more than the SGA shippers have received. I suppose that old adage is true - the more you have the more you want (or expect).


Some people will never be happy, no matter what.
I'm not worried about canonising, other than the fans who treat it as a religion, in which we are all heretics for not believing in the magnificent glory which is S/J. Hallelujah, pass the KoolAid. Um, it's two characters in a television series, they don't really exist, you know. And the world will not end if every SG1 does not worship at the great shrine of S/J. Most of the fans and most of the casual viewers don't give a fig.


Well, that's good news because I'm hoping that we've seen all the overt ship that we're ever going to see in the Stargate Universe.

Amen to that. I so hope they don't ruin SG:A the same way; subtle as a sledgehammer, some of these writers.

FF :nox:

JessM
April 28th, 2007, 05:44 PM
Just another update on JMs blog

Anonymous #2 writes: “Joe, joe, joe. *sighs and shakes head* You do realise that you've just pissed off the Sam/Jack shippers now on top of the Terri fans?”

Answer: By providing an honest answer to a question asked? Sorry, but we have no plans to work Carter’s love-life into Atlantis. For SG-1 movie-related questions, however, feel free to post them on Brad and Robert’s blogs.


Then he later says:

Linz writes: “I was wondering if the Wraith from Common Ground is definitely coming back in season 4?”

Answer: Yup. And we’re going to ship him with Carter.


Oh dear, likes to stir things up doesn't he. Anyway at least hopefully that means Sam can be free of ship on SGA. I think he's saying that the movies are down to BW & RCC - and as far as I know neither of those two have blogs:)

Certainly sounds like it.

I've heard that RCC has a blog at one of the "official" Stargate sites... maybe the MGM one? Actually I was told that by someone when I was grousing on the D/V Ship Discussion (Pro/Con) thread about the D/V ship taking away from Daniel's friendships... She said I could ask RCC if they planned to show any Daniel/Sam/Teal'c friendship in the movies. I haven't been brave enough to check it out yet though, lol

grasshopper64
April 29th, 2007, 04:06 AM
Certainly sounds like it.

I've heard that RCC has a blog at one of the "official" Stargate sites... maybe the MGM one? Actually I was told that by someone when I was grousing on the D/V Ship Discussion (Pro/Con) thread about the D/V ship taking away from Daniel's friendships... She said I could ask RCC if they planned to show any Daniel/Sam/Teal'c friendship in the movies. I haven't been brave enough to check it out yet though, lol


From what I remember RCC was meant to be starting a blog but it never happened, I think because RCC didn't have the time to do it or something like that.

Probably a blessing in disguise given the fuss that JM's blog has caused:)

On a side note though it's interesting that MS is doing a blog on the TV guide website starting next week I think

JessM
April 30th, 2007, 05:21 PM
Ah, okay. I didn't hear too much more about that blog so I wondered what was going on. I suppose it is just as well, then, considering what went on at JM's blog.

I heard about that, too. Will be interesting to see what he talks about there. :)

Willow'sCat
April 30th, 2007, 05:32 PM
The reason I don't like Shipping (or slashing like that will ever bloody happen) on Stargate is for the things people are saying right here.

What some fans see as nothing more then a character protecting another character; others point to as the big revelation that a) is doing b).

There is nothing wrong with people in their fevered minds seeing these things and writing endless fics about it, but unless the show has a plan to make it truly canon, no maybes, no kiss in an AUverse or situation then it is just tptb messing about with fans. Don't tell me they don't know what fans think when this stuff turns up on screen. They know. :cool:

Not that I want it to be seen on the show/s but this other crap of having Jack kiss Sam but not really, and John kiss Teyla and Weir but not really, and all the other rubbish... well it just makes the show a bit of a cliche joke.

I dread what SGA will do now that Teyla is going to be pregnant!!! :cool: :rolleyes:

grasshopper64
June 11th, 2007, 10:32 AM
Thought this thread needed resurrecting, mostly because of some stuff that's going round about SGA S4. I also feel the need to rant a little;)

Firstly we had JM & PM's vid that has caused a bit of a stir in some places:)

OK we have Teyla hugging Sheppard which I think most people don't see as shippy and he's not hugging back. We don't know in what context that scene happens but yep hoping there will be no Shep/Teyla shippyness.

Then we have what looks like some Shep kirking *rolls eyes* with Larrin.



Now we have RCC talking a bit about Keller & Carter in S4 on scifi.com

Staite is "fabulous," executive producer Robert C. Cooper said in an interview on the show's Vancouver, Canada, set over the weekend. Other cast members hinted that Keller may develop a romantic relationship with one of the other characters and will become friends with Carter.

As for Carter's joining the Atlantis team, executive producer Joseph Mallozzi said the transition won't go smoothly. For one thing, Carter and Rodney McKay (David Hewlett) have a history, as fans of SG-1 know well. "There will be a little friction off the get-go," Mallozzi said. "But they're both adults [about it]." McKay's unrequited lust for Carter will be addressed, Mallozzi promised. "That gets touched on very early on."


Oh no, Keller developing a romantic relationship with someone I am not looking forward to (not that I'm looking forward to much of S4 at this rate but that's for another thread) who is it, why does she need to have a "relationship" with anyone, let me guess, she's a pretty female......Who is it? Shep, Ronan, Lorne, Zelenka.:(

I am already fed up with the McKay/Carter thing, it's just old now. Why does this "unrequited lust" need to be dealt with *yawns*

What with all this and Teyla's pregancy, call me cynical but it is starting to sound like Soapgate Atlantis.........

Killdeer
June 11th, 2007, 10:25 PM
Thought this thread needed resurrecting, mostly because of some stuff that's going round about SGA S4. I also feel the need to rant a little;)

This thread always needs resurrecting. :) And I totally understand the need to rant. :)


Firstly we had JM & PM's vid that has caused a bit of a stir in some places:)

OK we have Teyla hugging Sheppard which I think most people don't see as shippy and he's not hugging back. We don't know in what context that scene happens but yep hoping there will be no Shep/Teyla shippyness.

Yes, I admit I rather flipped out at first. Upon further reflection, I want to see the context before I decide. But yes, fervently hoping there is no J/T in S4.


Then we have what looks like some Shep kirking *rolls eyes* with Larrin.


I've only seen the screencaps, not the video. The screencaps make it look like she forced the kiss on him. But yes, I can do without the Kirking...although if I have to choose between kirking and J/T I choose the Kirking, as long as he's not on duty like he was in The Tower (still irritated).



Now we have RCC talking a bit about Keller & Carter in S4 on scifi.com

Staite is "fabulous," executive producer Robert C. Cooper said in an interview on the show's Vancouver, Canada, set over the weekend. Other cast members hinted that Keller may develop a romantic relationship with one of the other characters and will become friends with Carter.

As for Carter's joining the Atlantis team, executive producer Joseph Mallozzi said the transition won't go smoothly. For one thing, Carter and Rodney McKay (David Hewlett) have a history, as fans of SG-1 know well. "There will be a little friction off the get-go," Mallozzi said. "But they're both adults [about it]." McKay's unrequited lust for Carter will be addressed, Mallozzi promised. "That gets touched on very early on."


Oh no, Keller developing a romantic relationship with someone I am not looking forward to (not that I'm looking forward to much of S4 at this rate but that's for another thread) who is it, why does she need to have a "relationship" with anyone, let me guess, she's a pretty female......Who is it? Shep, Ronan, Lorne, Zelenka.:(

I am already fed up with the McKay/Carter thing, it's just old now. Why does this "unrequited lust" need to be dealt with *yawns*

What with all this and Teyla's pregancy, call me cynical but it is starting to sound like Soapgate Atlantis.........


Yeah, I understand. Although, I don't care really with Keller as long as it's not with a main character. I doubt they're going to make a big deal out of two recurring characters getting together. I did read some rumors awhile back about Keller being a love interest for Shep. Not sure where that came from. That would be ....*ugggh* She's just so....young! *sighs*

With all the J/T hints lately, it was probably a red herring. But why do we have to have all these "relationships" anyway? You know, I was afraid of this when I heard Mallozzi and Mullie were coming over as showrunners. They came onboard in S4 of SG-1, and I'm not convinced that it's coincidental that that season marked the rise of the J/S ship and the beginning of the breakdown of the team/friendship/family vibe (IMO).

Killdeer
July 29th, 2007, 10:08 PM
Hello, just resurrecting this thread again, for all those who find the shippy rumors for S4 slightly disturbing. I was thinking about starting an anti-Shep ship thread, but wasn't sure if I'd be by myself or not.

Am I the only one who is finding all the rumblings about John/Teyla and Ronon/Keller slightly disturbing? Not to mention Rodney/Katie - guess that one's a done deal, though I think we dodged a bullet in that it was almost Katie who was pregnant this year. Nevertheless, while I haven't really cared much about Katie when she was only in two episodes in two seasons, I'm not sure how I'm going to react to a more serious romance.

Anyone else out there worried about ship for S4?

starfox
July 30th, 2007, 12:06 AM
Hello, just resurrecting this thread again, for all those who find the shippy rumors for S4 slightly disturbing. I was thinking about starting an anti-Shep ship thread, but wasn't sure if I'd be by myself or not.

Am I the only one who is finding all the rumblings about John/Teyla and Ronon/Keller slightly disturbing? Not to mention Rodney/Katie - guess that one's a done deal, though I think we dodged a bullet in that it was almost Katie who was pregnant this year. Nevertheless, while I haven't really cared much about Katie when she was only in two episodes in two seasons, I'm not sure how I'm going to react to a more serious romance.

Anyone else out there worried about ship for S4?


I'm not as worried as I probably should be, mainly because I've gotten pretty good at ignoring ship rumours, especially of the John/Teyla variety.

We've got a crapload of shippers here, and a (spoilers for The Seer) confirmed pregnancy for Teyla.

That's going to start some tongues a-wagging.


There's also the fact that Katie's a secondary character, all evidence points to Teyla's love interest being a minor character, and even if Ronon/Keller does come about, it's not likely to cause much conflict and therefore not likely to get much screentime. The writers may have finally discovered the best way to do ship in an action show: in tiny bits with minor spread out through episodes so it doesn't screw with the rest of the show.

Of course, this may just be wishful thinking. But I like feeling hopeful, darn it!

Willow'sCat
July 30th, 2007, 03:04 AM
Anyone else out there worried about ship for S4?God I don't know whether to laugh hysterically or cry at the rumours and spoilers around shipps on the show in season 4. Whatever happens we do know that Teyla will have a sprog, we do know that Rodney will have :S Katie, and from the promos you can pretty much tell Sheppard will either try and smirk and Kirk his way out of whatever crap he is in with what's her name....

...All we need now is to hear that Jack is turning up to "Save Sam". :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

ccdsah
July 30th, 2007, 03:11 AM
God I don't know whether to laugh hysterically or cry at the rumours and spoilers around shipps on the show in season 4. Whatever happens we do know that Teyla will have a sprog, we do know that Rodney will have :S Katie, and from the promos you can pretty much tell Sheppard will either try and smirk and Kirk his way out of whatever crap he is in with what's her name....

...All we need now is to hear that Jack is turning up to "Save Sam". :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Actually if you listen to AT's comentary for "Unending" you'll see that it's Teal'c who's turning up in "Reunion" to "Save Sam" :)

maxbo
July 30th, 2007, 09:06 AM
I may be living in denial, but I'm not worried about the rumors of ship in Season 4 because I don't expect to see the type of overt Jack/Sam type of ship that disappointed shippers and non-shippers alike in the last few Jack seasons of SG-1. There wasn't enough ship for shippers and there was too much ship for non-shippers. What a mess.

I'm hoping that TPTB learned their lesson from that fiasco because I recently heard that they wouldn't have taken things as far as they did with Jack/Sam if they had known that SG-1 would continue to be renewed beyond Season 6.

The fact that they are pushing for Season 5 may be a good indication that they won't go the overt ship route in Season 4. At least that's the way I choose to view things within my little bubble of denial.

ccdsah
July 30th, 2007, 09:10 AM
I may be living in denial, but I'm not worried about the rumors of ship in Season 4 because I don't expect to see the type of overt Jack/Sam type of ship that disappointed shippers and non-shippers alike in the last few Jack seasons of SG-1. There wasn't enough ship for shippers and there was too much ship for non-shippers. What a mess.

I'm hoping that TPTB learned their lesson from that fiasco because I recently heard that they wouldn't have taken things as far as they did with Jack/Sam if they had known that SG-1 would continue to be renewed beyond Season 6.

The fact that they are pushing for Season 5 may be a good indication that they won't go the overt ship route in Season 4. At least that's the way I choose to view things within my little bubble of denial.

Are you kidding me??? They wanted to make Mckay a daddy and only backed down because of Rachel's pregnancy! How more overt do you want?
And another one from Unending comentary from

Vala had a miscarriage - Coop confirmed it!

maxbo
July 30th, 2007, 09:51 AM
Are you kidding me??? They wanted to make Mckay a daddy and only backed down because of Rachel's pregnancy! How more overt do you want?
And another one from Unending comentary from

Vala had a miscarriage - Coop confirmed it!


No, I'm not kidding you. How is that McKay/daddy storyline overt when isn't going to happen? I'm only interested in what's scripted not rumors or discarded storylines.

The Vala thing follows the same pattern that TPTB used for Jack/Sam when they thought SG-1 was going to end in Season 6(?) so as long as they have hope for more seasons of SGA, I'm not worried that they'll go that route with SGA because they clearly don't know what to do with ship in the long run.

grasshopper64
July 30th, 2007, 11:15 AM
Are you kidding me??? They wanted to make Mckay a daddy and only backed down because of Rachel's pregnancy! How more overt do you want?
And another one from Unending comentary from

Vala had a miscarriage - Coop confirmed it!



Another reason to hate unending - yuk, I'm off to the anti D/V thread.

I am a little concerned about what they're do on SGA in S4, as has been said a lot could depend on wether they get an S5 or not, but to be honest I am finding it hard to be interested in S4 at all, all these changes and soapy storylines, I hope they do at least keep ship to an absolute minimum.

Black Hawk
August 9th, 2007, 07:40 PM
Evening anti-shippers!

I have a new fan film that you may find amusing. It's called "Shipper Wars" and is teasing about the whole ship deal -- showing how absurd it would be if people behaved in real life the way they do on the net about their ships. Some have found it insulting, but given that this is an anti-ship thread I don't think you will!

Shipper Wars

Part 1: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z7rhTIqJKas
Part 2: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5SvndWjaUgQ
Part 3: http://youtube.com/watch?v=MPm5pPHxrGs

I hope that if you watch it you enjoy it! Wishing you all much love, laughter and light!

JessM
August 12th, 2007, 09:52 AM
Another reason to hate unending - yuk, I'm off to the anti D/V thread.

I am a little concerned about what they're do on SGA in S4, as has been said a lot could depend on wether they get an S5 or not, but to be honest I am finding it hard to be interested in S4 at all, all these changes and soapy storylines, I hope they do at least keep ship to an absolute minimum.

I'm with you. I thought that was just silly little speculation that some D/V'ers came up with, but to hear Coop confirm it... ugh.

I almost hoped he was just being silly and treating it like a joke, but if he was being totally serious about it...... ugh, again.

I'm not all that worried about S4... I haven't been following the discussions all that much TBH...

maxbo
September 30th, 2007, 12:17 PM
hmmm, I just watched Doppleganger and think it's time to resurrect this puppy. Maybe this episode was just a fluke and I'm becoming concerned for nothing, but still... I don't like where TPTB could be going with this because I'm getting that Sam/Jack overt-ship vibe. :S

Please, TPTB, just say no to ship... please. Please accept the fact that you can't write ship well and just focus on developing the characters and providing interesting storylines. If you really must give in to your inner Mills & Boon, then at least have the decency to confine your efforts (very sparingly) to recurring and one-shot characters.

Killdeer
September 30th, 2007, 12:20 PM
hmmm, I just watched Doppleganger and think it's time to resurrect this puppy. Maybe this episode was just a fluke and I'm becoming concerned for nothing, but still... I don't like where TPTB could be going with this because I'm getting that Sam/Jack overt-ship vibe. :S

Please, TPTB, just say no to ship... please because you can't write ship well. Just focus on developing the characters and providing interesting storylines. If you really must give in to your inner Mills & Boon, then at least have the decency to confine your efforts (very sparingly) to recurring and one-shot characters.

I so agree with you. :D I do NOT want to see John and Teyla become the Jack and Sam of the Pegasus Galaxy. I like both characters too much for that. And good idea to resurrect this thread. The anti Shep/Teyla thread was resurrected last night, but this one's good too. :D

maxbo
September 30th, 2007, 12:33 PM
I so agree with you. :D I do NOT want to see John and Teyla become the Jack and Sam of the Pegasus Galaxy. I like both characters too much for that. And good idea to resurrect this thread. The anti Shep/Teyla thread was resurrected last night, but this one's good too. :D

You know, taken on its own, I don't think Doppleganger was too bad, however, I would have said the same about Sam & Jack in Season 4 of SG-1 if I hadn't known how that would turn out. I also care too much about the characters to want see TPTB attempt to overtly ship them. I still haven't been able to muster the courage to watch Seasons 5-7 of SG-1 because I'm concerned about the S/J stuff.

From what I've heard that attempt not only damaged both characters, but also negatively affected that SG-1 team spirit that I loved so much in seasons 1-3. Although Season 4 wasn't as bad as I expected, it had a different feel compared to the first 3 seasons - and I didn't like that difference.

SGA was just getting its bearings, in terms of friendship, in Season 3 and I don't want to see that momentum lost because of overt ship.

Killdeer
September 30th, 2007, 12:37 PM
You know, taken on its own, I don't think Doppleganger was too bad, however, I would have said the same about Sam & Jack in Season 4 of SG-1 if I hadn't known how that would turn out. I also care too much about the characters to want see TPTB attempt to overtly ship them. I still haven't been able to muster the courage to watch Seasons 5-7 of SG-1 because I'm concerned about the S/J stuff.

From what I've heard that attempt not only damaged both characters, but also negatively affected that SG-1 team spirit that I loved so much in seasons 1-3. Although Season 4 wasn't as bad as I expected, it had a different feel compared to the first 3 seasons - and I didn't like that difference.

Actually, 5-6 weren't too bad. They kind of put the whole ship thing on the back burner for those seasons as I recall. It was kind of like, they had it in S4, and then they forgot about it until S7, and then they had Pete, and then we had Season 8, and Threads...*cringes* Actually, Lost City was pretty cringeworthy for J/S ship too....the Season 7 finale.

What's always worried me about this is that Mallozzi says that Seasons 4, 7, & 8 are his favorites. :S

Frostfox
September 30th, 2007, 12:38 PM
I so agree with you. :D I do NOT want to see John and Teyla become the Jack and Sam of the Pegasus Galaxy. I like both characters too much for that. And good idea to resurrect this thread. The anti Shep/Teyla thread was resurrected last night, but this one's good too. :D

I don't even watch Atlantis, but I hope that TPTB have learned their lesson by how poorly S/J on SG1 was received - the S/J fans got frustrated by 10 years of bait and switch and all the rest of us were bored witless by the whole sorry affair.
However, in the end, TPTB did the sensible thing. SG1 had ten years, now the show is over closed canon and we only had to suffer the dreaded resolution in AU's and imaginary sequences (not that wasn't dull enough). In the end, they didn't go there.
I'm always happy for fans to read whatever they like in a show and I'm sure the fanfic writers do a much, much better job than the show writers.

Keep it neutral, that way everyone is happy.

FF :nox:

Killdeer
September 30th, 2007, 12:42 PM
I don't even watch Atlantis, but I hope that TPTB have learned their lesson by how poorly S/J on SG1 was received - the S/J fans got frustrated by 10 years of bait and switch and all the rest of us were bored witless by the whole sorry affair. FF :nox:

I'm not sure if they have or not. They were sure throwing the Sheyla moments at us fast and heavy in Doppelganger. Of course, they could all be explained away, and some people have come up with explanations that I really like. :) But..... I don't know. Guess we'll see. And with Teyla having a baby with another man (that's confirmed), either they're going to drop it, or set up a triangle type thing where she's in love with both. Which probably won't make me very happy with Teyla - I hate those type of things.

maxbo
September 30th, 2007, 12:54 PM
If TPTB have Teyla in the middle of a triangle, then I'll want to hit something - very, very hard. That would be such a waste of a character who could have unlimited potential in the hands of creative writers who can think outside of the box.

Yeah, I heard that TPTB just seemed to drop the S/J ship ball in Seasons 5-6 only to blindside viewers in Season 7. I remember reading that the heaviest ship stuff occurred when TPTB thought they were writing for the last season and that if they had known that they had more time, they wouldn't have gotten so heavy-handed with S/J ship.

The fact that they still don't know if there will be a Season 5 for SGA has me worried that they will treat this as SGA's last season and subject Teyla and John to the Sam & Jack treatment. :(

Frostfox
September 30th, 2007, 12:59 PM
I'm not sure if they have or not. They were sure throwing the Sheyla moments at us fast and heavy in Doppelganger. Of course, they could all be explained away, and some people have come up with explanations that I really like. :) But..... I don't know. Guess we'll see. And with Teyla having a baby with another man (that's confirmed), either they're going to drop it, or set up a triangle type thing where she's in love with both. Which probably won't make me very happy with Teyla - I hate those type of things.

The writers had all the subtleness of an elephant, which just didn't help either.

There was a scene in Evolution where Jack goes to Sam's lab to tell her he's going alone to rescue their best friend and team mate. And it's all about lingering looks and soft focus lenses on Amanda. Not about the danger their best friend is in. The starcrossed lovers is way more important, obviously and Jack worrying about his highly competent 2IC who is going into the danger zone with her father and the two best warriors in the Jaffa Nation.

I really, really hope they don't degrade SGA in the same way for you.

FF :nox:

Killdeer
September 30th, 2007, 01:12 PM
The writers had all the subtleness of an elephant, which just didn't help either.

There was a scene in Evolution where Jack goes to Sam's lab to tell her he's going alone to rescue their best friend and team mate. And it's all about lingering looks and soft focus lenses on Amanda. Not about the danger their best friend is in. The starcrossed lovers is way more important, obviously and Jack worrying about his highly competent 2IC who is going into the danger zone with her father and the two best warriors in the Jaffa Nation.

I really, really hope they don't degrade SGA in the same way for you.

FF :nox:

I hope so too. :S I'm not feeling as pessimistic now as I was when I viewed the episode. Probably because I've been surfing around and reading all the ways that those scenes could be explained away. Even though I don't think the writers are really that subtle. And because even though we got hit with that in the beginning, we still had a great ending. :)

The worst probably was the hug. It was just so painfully awkward! And out of place! And you know, if they do go ahead with this ship, JF is going to have to work a whole lot harder on selling me on it, because right now, I'm not convinced he has a clue. I might possibly be able to buy that Teyla is interested in him, but I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate that he cares any more about her than Elizabeth or Rodney or Ronon. This all feels not only awkward, but painfully one-sided.

maxbo
September 30th, 2007, 01:15 PM
The writers had all the subtleness of an elephant, which just didn't help either.

There was a scene in Evolution where Jack goes to Sam's lab to tell her he's going alone to rescue their best friend and team mate. And it's all about lingering looks and soft focus lenses on Amanda. Not about the danger their best friend is in. The starcrossed lovers is way more important, obviously and Jack worrying about his highly competent 2IC who is going into the danger zone with her father and the two best warriors in the Jaffa Nation.

I really, really hope they don't degrade SGA in the same way for you.

FF :nox:

Oh dear... this is just the type of heavy-handed, bull in a china shop writing that turns me off ship.

Frostfox
September 30th, 2007, 01:21 PM
Oh dear... this is just the type of heavy-handed, bull in a china shop writing that turns me off ship.

Exactly, written with subtlety and skill, you could get over that they were worried about their team mate and worried about splitting the team. But it was all about Sam 'n Sir. It was blatant and left a bad taste in the mouth; SG1 was all about TEAM. Same for SGA.

FF :nox:

Erised
September 30th, 2007, 01:31 PM
I didn't get anything bad out of Ronon/Keller and let's be honest for a second.. in real life, males and females flirt a little constantly....especially if they're alone in the room. You guys shouldn't freak out over this one.

As for John/Teyla, I felt like I was getting hit over the head and TPTB yelling "Do you see it? It's right here!!! Do you see J/T?" Damn it was too much and I would have hated to see this in ANY pair on Atlantis

Killdeer
September 30th, 2007, 01:40 PM
I didn't get anything bad out of Ronon/Keller and let's be honest for a second.. in real life, males and females flirt a little constantly....especially if they're alone in the room. You guys shouldn't freak out over this one.

As for John/Teyla, I felt like I was getting hit over the head and TPTB yelling "Do you see it? It's right here!!! Do you see J/T?" Damn it was too much and I would have hated to see this in ANY pair on Atlantis

Agree with both points-and thought it was very interesting that Ronon told Keller that John wasn't seeing anyone, being under the mistaken impression that Keller was nervous around John because of being attracted to him.

maxbo
September 30th, 2007, 01:43 PM
I didn't get anything bad out of Ronon/Keller and let's be honest for a second.. in real life, males and females flirt a little constantly....especially if they're alone in the room. You guys shouldn't freak out over this one.

As for John/Teyla, I felt like I was getting hit over the head and TPTB yelling "Do you see it? It's right here!!! Do you see J/T?" Damn it was too much and I would have hated to see this in ANY pair on Atlantis

I didn't see any flirting between those two in that scene so that's your interpretation and that's fine. However, if I had seen flirting in that scene then I would "freak" out because I don't care what happens in real life, I don't want to see overt ship/flirting, etc. on screen. I am anti-ship SGA ship period - not just anti-ship certain pairings.

Irish Eyes
September 30th, 2007, 02:31 PM
I'm not sure if they have or not. They were sure throwing the Sheyla moments at us fast and heavy in Doppelganger. Of course, they could all be explained away, and some people have come up with explanations that I really like. :) But..... I don't know. Guess we'll see. And with Teyla having a baby with another man (that's confirmed), either they're going to drop it, or set up a triangle type thing where she's in love with both. Which probably won't make me very happy with Teyla - I hate those type of things.

I can't see Teyla as part of a triangle. If the spoilers/speculation are true, she has a crush on John, but has a baby with someone else. It will be interesting to see the circumstances regarding this baby because maybe she's not in love with the father. Regardless, Teyla is very loyal and I think she would stay with the baby's father over John. The baby, and by extension the father, will become her focus. If she would actively pursue her crush on John, I would be disappointed.

Of course, I'm also assuming the baby and its father will not be conveniently written out. :S


Agree with both points-and thought it was very interesting that Ronon told Keller that John wasn't seeing anyone, being under the mistaken impression that Keller was nervous around John because of being attracted to him.

I keep thinking about the comment JM made on his blog that when the end of the season rolls around we'll be surprised at the lack of real ship. So to me it's very possible they're just doing their normal teasing of each ship and Doppelganger had the heavy J/T anvils. I think there's another episode coming that will feature the same type of stuff for J/T.

Ruined_puzzle
September 30th, 2007, 02:51 PM
I'm not liking the way their "exploring" Teyla's character. Is this the only way tptb could think to give a storyline. Teyla in my opinion has never showed any interest in John, none whatesoever, and now all of the sudden she is afraid that people will think that her and John are together. Also that was her biggest fear, WTF. Doesn't she have other fears other than something a highschooler would fear. It just seems that they are ruining Teyla's character for the sake of this crappy ship. I'm sorry but if this is the way they are going. I'd rather have Teyla be wallpaper. Plus isn't John going to have a love interest in Larrin. So okay Teyla is pinning for John but has a baby with another guy and John doesn't really care about Teyla that way. Oh, look its the OC.

maxbo
September 30th, 2007, 03:02 PM
I'm not liking the way their "exploring" Teyla's character. Is this the only way tptb could think to give a storyline. Teyla in my opinion has never showed any interest in John, none whatesoever, and now all of the sudden she is afraid that people will think that her and John are together. Also that was her biggest fear, WTF. Doesn't she have other fears other than something a highschooler would fear. It just seems that they are ruining Teyla's character for the sake of this crappy ship. I'm sorry but if this is the way they are going. I'd rather have Teyla be wallpaper. Plus isn't John going to have a love interest in Larrin. So okay Teyla is pinning for John but has a baby with another guy and John doesn't really care about Teyla that way. Oh, look its the OC.

But that wasn't her "biggest fear". There was much more to that scene than what you noticed.Those "ship" elements, as annoying as they were, were not the entirety of what was going on with Teyla in that episode. Nor was this supposed to be a big Teyla episode so it's too early to judge how TPTB will "explore" Teyla's character.

Erised
September 30th, 2007, 03:16 PM
Agree with both points-and thought it was very interesting that Ronon told Keller that John wasn't seeing anyone, being under the mistaken impression that Keller was nervous around John because of being attracted to him.

dude don't make me become a Sheppard/Keller shipper LOL!!

maxbo, actually I didn't see any flirting and only thought about if when someone mentioned it. I didn't even know there was flirting but after reading others' thoughts, I can see where they're getting it from. Still though... flirting isn't shipping. If we want any real feel in the show, that should be allowed imo.

Killdeer
September 30th, 2007, 03:29 PM
dude don't make me become a Sheppard/Keller shipper LOL!!

LOL. Nope, not promoting that ship either. :) But I didn't see flirting in that scene really.

maxbo
September 30th, 2007, 04:01 PM
dude don't make me become a Sheppard/Keller shipper LOL!!

maxbo, actually I didn't see any flirting and only thought about if when someone mentioned it. I didn't even know there was flirting but after reading others' thoughts, I can see where they're getting it from. Still though... flirting isn't shipping. If we want any real feel in the show, that should be allowed imo.

I don't understand the line that I bolded. Are you saying that if there isn't any flirting written into the scenes that there isn't any real feelings in the show? If that's what you're saying, then I don't agree.

On the other hand, if you consider that Ronon & Keller scene as flirtatious, then I wouldn't have a problem with that, because IMO, there wasn't anything flirtatious about it. In fact, I'm scratching my head in confusion because Ronon seemed to be trying to pave the way for Keller to hook up with Sheppard, not him.

Anyway, I just don't want to see overt flirting written into the show because that would be the same as overt shipping, IMO.

Irish Eyes
September 30th, 2007, 04:03 PM
But that wasn't her "biggest fear". There was much more to that scene than what you noticed.Those "ship" elements, as annoying as they were, were not the entirety of what was going on with Teyla in that episode. Nor was this supposed to be a big Teyla episode so it's too early to judge how TPTB will "explore" Teyla's character.

Almost everything I've read about Teyla's dream only mentions the relationship with John. So what really was Teyla's biggest fear?

maxbo
September 30th, 2007, 05:02 PM
Almost everything I've read about Teyla's dream only mentions the relationship with John. So what really was Teyla's biggest fear?

She had several fears to set the scene, her nightmare had a fast moving quality where each scene quickly flowed into the next.

The first scene showed Teyla in her tent from The Rising looking confused, like she was wondering how she got there, then there was John sitting at the table eating and then Ronon appears and says something about knowing that she and John would hook up and then Teyla's surprised response that they weren't hooking up - that they were just having dinner. Then Rodney appears with his LSD and says something about finding strange energy readings, and then John tells Teyla that Sam doesn't trust her - no one does but him. Then he asks what's wrong with her because she hasn't been the same since she went into that wraith queen's mind and then Teyla hears wraith darts and hears her father calling her. When she tries to leave the tent to help him, BugShep appears and feeds on her and then Teyla wakes up clutching her chest as if she had been fed on by a wraith.

That nightmare sequence showed that Teyla was afraid of not being trusted by the others mainly because of her wraith DNA and that she also feared not being able to help her father and that she was also afraid of being fed on by the wraith. The Ronon comment that you've heard so much about was the least important part of that nightmare sequence.

There was also another nightmare with Kate Heightmeyer that may have revealed another fear - the fear of losing people that she cares about. I have to watch the episode again to try to figure that one out.

Also, the only reason why Sheppard appeared so prominently in Teyla's nightmare is because he was the carrier of the virus that caused the nightmares. As was shown later in the episode, he figured prominently in each character's nightmares, so it wasn't just a Teyla issue.

Although I had some concerns about this episode, that first nightmare sequence wasn't one of them.

Killdeer
September 30th, 2007, 05:06 PM
This was Teyla's dream:

Teyla's dream: She's in an Athosian tent, and her hair is long and styled similar to Rising. Shep is sitting at the table eating something, and says "This is good-what is it?" The camera pans to Ronon standing there with his arms crossed and a smug look on his face. He says "I knew you two were going to eventually hook up." Teyla is flustered and denies "We are not hooking up. It's just dinner." Rodney wanders by saying "I'm telling you, there's something in here giving off a strange energy reading." Suddenly John is standing in front of Teyla. She says "John, what are you doing?" He's staring at her intently. "Colonel Carter doesn't trust you. No one does but me." Teyla asks "What are you talking about. Then he starts walking around her. "What's wrong with you?" "What do you mean? Nothing!" "You haven't been the same since you got in the mind of that Wraith Queen." "What?!" Then she hears a man yell from outside - "Teyla!" and the whine of a Wraith date. She gasps "Father" and rushes toward the tent entrance, only to meet Conversion!Shep pushing his way in. He grabs her around the throat and pushes her back on the table, and then starts feeding on her as a Wraith would. She wakes up with a start, gasping for breath.

EDIT: And Maxbo already answered the question. :)

So Maxbo, if this scene didn't bother you, which one caused you concern? I'm just curious. :)

Irish Eyes
September 30th, 2007, 05:57 PM
Thanks for the info! See, this just reinforces for me that TPTB are still yanking every ship's chain, in this case the J/T people.

Over on JM's blog someone asked him when the J/T hug took place and he SAID he couldn't remember the episode. If that's true, it wasn't a big deal in his eyes. Of course, he could have considered it a spoiler and wasn't saying.

maxbo
September 30th, 2007, 07:38 PM
Killdeer, my concerns were more akin to a feeling of deja vu caused by being wrong about TPTB's plans for Sam and Jack. Let me try to explain. Although some S/J shippers insist that TPTB had always shipped S/J, that's not what I saw. What they saw as ship or pre-ship, I saw as friendship, harmless male/female acknowledgment or, just clumsy, plot-driven writing that only mattered for an episode or two.

When I first got involved with online fandom a few years ago (during the beginning of SGA's season 2), I was stunned that S/J had such a large following. I even remember posting on another Stargate board that SG-1 must have done something right because there was enough ship to keep the shippers happy, however, there wasn't so much ship that it turned off those who didn't see it. Well, I was gently and firmly shown the error of my ways by making that statement. :S

One reason why I was so clueless about the S/J situation is because, before SGA, I had only watched SG-1 sporadically so I had missed a lot. However, what I did remember was that SG-1 was a close team based on friendship, not romance.

My concerns with Doppleganger are more about the TPTB's future plans than the episode itself. Although there were several moments that, when taken together, made me feel like I was watching S/J in Season 4, I could overlook them if TPTB didn't go any further.

Irish Eyes, IMO, until TPTB write overt ship into the show, then shippers will only have their chains yanked if they allow it. For three years some shippers have practically insisted that their favorite ship is canon despite the fact that there has never been any canon ship on the show.

Hmmm, I feel like I'm rambling (more than usual :D) so I'd better call it a night.

Killdeer
October 1st, 2007, 09:33 AM
Killdeer, my concerns were more akin to a feeling of deja vu caused by being wrong about TPTB's plans for Sam and Jack. Let me try to explain. Although some S/J shippers insist that TPTB had always shipped S/J, that's not what I saw. What they saw as ship or pre-ship, I saw as friendship, harmless male/female acknowledgment or, just clumsy, plot-driven writing that only mattered for an episode or two.

When I first got involved with online fandom a few years ago (during the beginning of SGA's season 2), I was stunned that S/J had such a large following. I even remember posting on another Stargate board that SG-1 must have done something right because there was enough ship to keep the shippers happy, however, there wasn't so much ship that it turned off those who didn't see it. Well, I was gently and firmly shown the error of my ways by making that statement. :S

One reason why I was so clueless about the S/J situation is because, before SGA, I had only watched SG-1 sporadically so I had missed a lot. However, what I did remember was that SG-1 was a close team based on friendship, not romance.

My concerns with Doppleganger are more about the TPTB's future plans than the episode itself. Although there were several moments that, when taken together, made me feel like I was watching S/J in Season 4, I could overlook them if TPTB didn't go any further.

Ah. Ok, I understand. And yeah, that's probably my thing too. I watched the whole S/J debacle, and didn't like where it ended up. I suppose I'm overly likely to freak at any sign J/T may be heading in that direction.


Irish Eyes, IMO, until TPTB write overt ship into the show, then shippers will only have their chains yanked if they allow it. For three years some shippers have practically insisted that their favorite ship is canon despite the fact that there has never been any canon ship on the show.

Hmmm, I feel like I'm rambling (more than usual :D) so I'd better call it a night.

No, I agree, there's never been any canon ship in the show to this point.

StarSkimmer
December 17th, 2007, 07:51 PM
Hi, all. Well, I don't know if I'm truly anti-ship - I love Shweir and Royla, but I HATE it when they ship people on the show. (Hate it I tell you!!!) I wouldn't even want to see Ronon and Teyla hook up, because (as much as I love them together) that takes the fun out of it. I guess it's kind of like Christmas - half the fun is the anticipation and waiting. Once it's over, it's over - fun's all gone. (Does that make sense? No, it doesn't. Whatever. :P )

Not to mention all the pairings TPTB choose for season 4 are against my OTPs. (Don't even get me started about Ronon/Keller... I might throw up again...)

What I don't get is why TPTB are shipping anyone at all. I thought what they were doing before was just fine - you know, putting little friendshippy moments of goodness between all the characters, so the fans could use their ship googles and go, "OMG! Sheppard and Weir are SO sleeping together!" etc, etc. So why they made

Rodney and Katie start dating

I'll never understand. Why ship at all? They're going to upset fans no matter what... I just don't get it. :S

Lt.Col.Errandboy
December 17th, 2007, 08:06 PM
YAY!!! Fellow gaters who hate that whole shipping faction!!

I think that shipping characters eventually kills a show. How boring & predictable. Especially Shep, IMHO. They've already set him up as a "captain kirk", getting to boff all the alien babes. Why change him? you can see in the way he relates to the women he works with - he WORKS with them FFS!!! You don't sh*t where you eat. The idea of 'shipping Shep' with Weir, Teyla, or ANY woman on Atlantis is rather absurd. Sure, people fall in love, but honestly, Sheppard hasn't shown ANYTHING near that with any Atlantis chick.


Personally, I liked the interaction he had with Larrin - she was 'his type' - combative, annoying and snarky. As JF said himself about 'shipping', the lovey-dovey stuff is boring, both for viewers and actors. They need conflict and tension & a whole lot of implication, but in-your-face schmoozing is a turn off.!!!

but then, I'm SO not a romantic sorta chick myself...hey! maybe I should get Shep! *snicker*

Killdeer
December 19th, 2007, 04:45 AM
YAY! More recruits for the anti-ship thread! :) Welcome, StarSkimmer and Lt.Col.Errandboy! :D


I agree with what you all are saying. And LCE, I especially agree with you about Larrin.

Sorry not longer - I'm on a time limit here. :)

JessM
December 19th, 2007, 06:04 AM
I've never really been into the idea of shipping on Atlantis.

The thing that's always bothered me about ship is that it tends to pit different groups of fans against each other. Especially when it's so overt and in your face. Even if you choose not to see it, there will be someone who will insist that you do and give you a hard time. I mean, if the ship has been established as canon at the very beginning of the show (as was Daniel/Sha're and Jack/Sara on SG-1...although these go back to the movie), and they aren't made such a huge part of the show that they get boring and distracting, that's one thing.

I do like seeing the relationships of the characters, but AS FRIENDS. As teammates. I hope I'm not talking out of both sides of my mouth here - I do ship, but only in fanfiction really and I'm not thrilled in seeing it onscreen so much. In fanfiction you can make whatever you want happen and everyone is happy... if a story features a pairing you don't like, you don't have to read it. But when it's onscreen, it's great for the people who love that pairing/ship in general, but doesn't leave much for anyone else.

StarSkimmer
December 19th, 2007, 12:10 PM
I've never really been into the idea of shipping on Atlantis.

The thing that's always bothered me about ship is that it tends to pit different groups of fans against each other. Especially when it's so overt and in your face. Even if you choose not to see it, there will be someone who will insist that you do and give you a hard time.

Yes, exactly! I mean, have you seen how some of the Shweir and Shelya shippers act towards each other? It makes me afraid for humankind... why can't we all just get along? :(

And what's with all those anti-pairing threads, the ones that target a specific ship? I don't get that. So, some people like that particular ship - why do people have to go and insult it? :S


I do like seeing the relationships of the characters, but AS FRIENDS. As teammates. I hope I'm not talking out of both sides of my mouth here - I do ship, but only in fanfiction really and I'm not thrilled in seeing it onscreen so much. In fanfiction you can make whatever you want happen and everyone is happy... if a story features a pairing you don't like, you don't have to read it. But when it's onscreen, it's great for the people who love that pairing/ship in general, but doesn't leave much for anyone else.

Yeah... I always thought that one of the main purposes of fanfiction was to satisfy that shipper itch that isn't scratched by watching the show. Friendship moments are excellent. Actual romantic moments? Not so much. :P

Lt.Col.Errandboy
December 19th, 2007, 09:25 PM
The only 'ship' I think I ever did like was on "Enterprise" (Trip/T'pol) cos they got some REALLY HOT SCENES together. I somehow can't see that happening in Atlantis among ANY of the crew there. Must be that whole military thing they'd have to overcome....too hard!

Killdeer
December 20th, 2007, 04:25 AM
And what's with all those anti-pairing threads, the ones that target a specific ship? I don't get that. So, some people like that particular ship - why do people have to go and insult it? :S


I don't see that the specific threads are any different than this thread, except that this thread is more general in scope. And often the more specific threads get more activity than this thread. The anti Sam/Jack thread used to be pretty active - not so much now that SG-1 is over. As long as people aren't attacking each other, I don't see what's wrong with having a place to talk about an aspect of the show you might not like, whether you're talking about shipping in general (this thread) or a particular ship.

Skydiver
December 20th, 2007, 05:12 AM
Guys

People in this thread don't like ship. Big fat hairy deal. It's not like thier postings will influence the show and how it's written. the writers will write what they want regardless of what fans want. ANd even if they write the show 100% shipless, people will see what they want to see. I've seen people turn a 2 second glance between characters into a confirmation of true love.

It's fandom.

How about not worrying about what others want/don't want and just leave people alone to express their opinions

Lt.Col.Errandboy
December 20th, 2007, 05:38 PM
I thought that was the point of this thread...;)

The shippers get their threads. The anti-shippers get their say. So the anti-ship of any kind should also be allowed freedom of expression, without crossing the bounds of propriety of course.

yeah, and it's not like the shippers will influence production either. Checkmate.

JessM
December 21st, 2007, 09:42 AM
LOL - I was almost ready to disagree with that last part (the shippers not influencing production). I remember one of TPTB (can't remember if it was Coop or Mallozzi) talking about Unending and about the two characters they got together in order to please "that contingent." Meaning of course the D/V shippers.

But then again, I think it is Coop who was responsible for all the D/V stuff anyway - and Mallozzi admitted in an interview that he is a D/V shipper (I'm serious... I happened upon this in some interview done about a year ago. Will see if I can find it again). I guess it goes back to TPTB doing what they want, in pleasing themselves, and it helps if there's a huge part of the fandom who love it as well.

Which, fine, TPTB love that stuff, scores of other fans love that stuff, then whatever. I personally don't have to like it though.

Killdeer
June 30th, 2008, 07:45 PM
starfox brought up the anti-shep/teyla & anti-shep/weir thread because of all the S5 discussion going on at the moment, and it reminded me of this thread. So just reviving it, if anyone wants to discuss here rather than another place.

Liv
July 1st, 2008, 09:27 AM
Thanks Killdeer; I had forgotten all about this thread and given what's going to happen on SGA in season 5, I feel like I should set up shop in here. ;)

There are very few ships I genuinely like, on tv-shows in general. It's a really, really, really short list, whereas my Anti-ship list is miles long. A lot of the dislike stems from either poor writing or terrible chemistry or both. I have real trouble getting behind a pairing where the writers waffle back and forward ad infinitum. It's just... if they're going to write a ship, then they should actually go ahead and WRITE the ship! Don't just throw in a little mind control here, a little possession there, an ambigous line or two – and then forget all about it in the next episode. And love triangles just make my head hurt...

Besides chemistry and consistent writing I also need equality in a couple. The two ships that stand out in my mind as being perfectly equal are John/Aeryn (Farscape) and Jadzia/Worf (Deep Space Nine). They fought together and sometimes they fought with each other, but not for one second did I believe that they didn't respect each other 100%.

Which is one of the many, many reasons I'm so strongly against the Sam/Jack ship: there's just such an imbalance there, imo. I see Jack shouting "Carter!" at the top of his lungs when he interacts with Sam or impatiently gesturing for her to get to the point when she "techno-babbles" or smirking because he kissed her without her knowledge or just generally acting pretty condescending towards her and for the life of me I can't figure out where his 'romantic feelings" are supposed to be in all of that.

And Sheppard/Teyla... I think they do have scenes where they've had some nice chemistry together, it's just that the very thought of them as a couple is so. not. working. for. me. At all. A huge part of that IS in the writing, but it's also in the fact that I don't want romance between team members. It's all wrong. I love the scenes where Teyla is bemused by Sheppard and teases him (like with Chaya and their picnic in "Sanctuary") or when she told him that she was NOT the "Invisible Woman" and Sheppard got all flustered and she just stared him down or when he was fibbing the numbers on how many Wraith he killed in "Sateda" and Teyla just rolled her eyes at him. THOSE are the kind of scenes I want between the two of them, not romance and damsel-in-distress Teyla with Sheppard-the-almighty hero to the rescue.

So, a big NO to Sheppard/Teyla in season 5!

Also, McKay/Keller/Ronon = My head huuuurts!

elliecat
July 1st, 2008, 09:36 AM
I haven't seen this thread before, I like. :) Liv I love that scene where Teyla is rolling her eyes at Sheppard for making up the numbers of how many wraith he killed! But, I agree, no romance please!

I can't stand shipping for the sake of shipping (ie stupid stupid love triangle :mad: ) Where there is no chemistry between any of the characters but they want some romance on the show so they will force it down our throats, no thanks! Just leave it be, it doesn't work, at all.

Great thread :D

marielabbott
July 1st, 2008, 09:58 AM
I did not realize there was a general anti-ship thread here. What a wonderful discovery. :)

There are a few ships in other shows that I like, and a few others that I tolerate, but mostly I kind of grit my teeth when romance enters the picture. I love SGA for it's friendship moments. I can handle the odd shippy hint, as long as it's not too overt and I can still interpret the moment in a platonic light. Which I have mostly been able to do, until season 4, when we get the introduction of the love triangle of doom. I am really dreading it's continuation in season 5. SGA used to be a nice haven of friendshippiness, now I fear it will take on the tone of some sort of comic soap opera in space. :S

Trek_Girl42
July 1st, 2008, 10:21 AM
Yup. Ships in Stargate are a bad idea period. It does not work- and this is a show about a team. Not pairings up within the team.

I can't stand nearly every ship on television. I do think that 90% of them are forced and quite ridiculous, as mentioned, stupid ways are devised to bring them together but to *not* bring them together in order to string along an audience, or the writers don't have the guts to take the plunge to actually write the relationship under the presumption that once it's there it's not interesting anymore- that's just pathetic lazy writing.

Also liking the points on having balanced equal relationships- those are the ones that work best. Some of the ones that I have actually liked would be Roslin/Adama, John/Aeryn, Jhadzia/Worf, Kira/Odo. All relationships built upon mutual respect (and all relationships that don't depend on a romantic element to remain solid and interesting), and if that's there I'll buy it.

I also actually like the triangle from Pushing Daisies, because it is actually very sweet and feels very realistic/non-insulting to any of the characters (so long as it's not dragged on too long into season two- but it already looks as if it's wrapping up). None of them are portrayed as stupid or mean- each of the characters is loveable, and it's not angsty. If you're going to write a love triangle, do it the PD way. ;)

Killdeer
July 1st, 2008, 04:10 PM
Wow. I seem to be the odd one out on this thread. :lol: Actually, truth be told, I don't mind ship on most shows. That's not what I watch for, although occasionally with a ship like John/Aeryn, I'll find myself drawn in. But it doesn't bother me either most of the time. The list of ships I can't stand is actually pretty short.

Unfortunately.....most of the Stargate ships are on that short list. :( *headdesk* I don't know what it is about this show - I mostly love it, but gah....the ships seem to always push every single button I have, and I can't figure out why, exactly. :S It started with Jack and Sam, and continued with Daniel/Vala (and I LIKED that ship when it started out), and now we have a possible Ronon/Keller, which I was OK with until Quarantine, but after that couldn't stand, and maybe some John/Teyla overtones, which would be Jack and Sam all over again, as if it wasn't bad enough going through it the first time. *shakes head*

I'm not including Rodney/Keller because that one hasn't hit my bad list yet, but it would be very easy for it to do so. :(

MerryK
July 1st, 2008, 04:57 PM
Wow. I seem to be the odd one out on this thread. :lol: Actually, truth be told, I don't mind ship on most shows. That's not what I watch for, although occasionally with a ship like John/Aeryn, I'll find myself drawn in. But it doesn't bother me either most of the time.

I probably should be banished from this thread, as I'm pretty regularly on various ship threads. ;) However, even though I've enjoyed some of the ship, I don't like the fact that they brought in ship at all. Some shows can do it, and do it well, and it fits—I don't see Stargate as one of them. Sometimes it's done well, but there's only one or two times that I can think of where it fit. But I enjoy shipping, so I'm not really anti-ship, so I'll leave now... :)

Trek_Girl42
July 1st, 2008, 05:26 PM
I think that one of the other most important things when it comes to ships, is that the characters have to hold their own as characters outside of the ship, that they're not defined, or that they're not only interesting because of who they are in a relationship with, or only interesting when the relationship comes into play within the story. When you're in that territory where the characters are only interesting because of the ship, that's really crap writing, and the interesting/good ships are the ones where the characters are interesting separately initially, and remain so as the relationship progresses. John/Aeryn is definitely a great example of this. And there also have to remain aspects of the relationship between the two characters that aren't ship-related.

Too many shows get in to the territory where the relationship between two shipped characters is UST, and it begins and ends there, and everything else to do with the characters starts to depend on that. Boring, annoying, and makes me want to turn my tv off. :rolleyes:

chuckyducky
July 1st, 2008, 06:43 PM
Wow. I seem to be the odd one out on this thread. :lol: Actually, truth be told, I don't mind ship on most shows. That's not what I watch for, although occasionally with a ship like John/Aeryn, I'll find myself drawn in. But it doesn't bother me either most of the time. The list of ships I can't stand is actually pretty short.

Unfortunately.....most of the Stargate ships are on that short list. :( *headdesk* I don't know what it is about this show - I mostly love it, but gah....the ships seem to always push every single button I have, and I can't figure out why, exactly. :S It started with Jack and Sam, and continued with Daniel/Vala (and I LIKED that ship when it started out), and now we have a possible Ronon/Keller, which I was OK with until Quarantine, but after that couldn't stand, and maybe some John/Teyla overtones, which would be Jack and Sam all over again, as if it wasn't bad enough going through it the first time. *shakes head*

I'm not including Rodney/Keller because that one hasn't hit my bad list yet, but it would be very easy for it to do so. :(

Hi,

I'd like to respond to this thread.

A relationship that helps evolve the development of a character, albeit good or bad, is something I respond to. I like relationships that are based on genuine chemistry, and doesn't feel generic or forced. More importantly, I respond very well to performances that go above and beyond restrictive dialogue. As a consequence, I've shipped the following:

a. Michael and Teyla (SGA)
b. John and Aeryn Sun (Farscape)
c. Specialist Tyrol and Boomer (BSG)
d. Jeryline and the Collector (Tales from the Crypt: De...)
e. Darla and Angel (Angel)
f. El Wray and Cherry Darling (Gindhouse: Planet Terror)
g. Cliff and Nikki (Hidden Palms)
h. Rain and J.D. (Resident Evil)
i. Rain and Matt (Resident Evil)
j. Rodney and Lt. Cadman (SGA)
k. Major Lorne and (Moi) (Personal preference)

However, I find myself agreeing with what a lot of you had to say. I also don't want to see romantic pairings within the team (well, I don't mind Major Lorne but that's the only exception). I feel it would detract from the show, and make me roll my eyes in exasperation every time it's done.

Anyway...

Lt.Col.Errandboy
July 1st, 2008, 07:31 PM
I'm with you on the 'do not romantically pair' scenario in SGA, Chucky...

Sheyla so doesn't work for me either, but then neither did Sparky. Shep is too "Kirky" to get serious with any of them, and I do think it would compromise his ability to be military commander of Atlantis.

I'm not into the gooey/schmuffy pairings - if you want that kinda stuff, read Harlequin novels FFS! I think that sci-fi 'romance' is not supposed to be schmuffy - let's face it, most times, they're in harsh environments, having to deal with all manner of life/death situations - does anyone realistically believe that any 'hearts & flowers' type twaddle is relevant, let alone POSSIBLE???

Let the scientists do the science stuff, the military shoot the crap outa everything. A quickie is about the only 'romance' that is logical in sci-fi. They dont' have time for mush when they're trying to save the frakking universe!

Sheppy babes, keep on Kirking!!

maxbo
July 2nd, 2008, 07:38 AM
Ohhh, my favorite anti-ship thread is back. Thanks for the bump, Killdeer. Now I can let my general anti-ship in Stargate run amuck and not be off tropic.

Anyway, back to the matter at hand. I can't see canon ship in Stargate ever working because the writers don't take it seriously. In SG-1 they canonized Sam/Jack in such a confusing way that I still can't figure out why they even bothered. IMO, the idea of Sam/Jack would have been more effective if TPTB had left the shipping of the characters up to the audience. That way I would never have been subjected to Threads and Moebius and then... well, nothing.

If they weren't going to follow-up on the ship issues raised in those episodes, then why did they go there? Who was their target audience? It couldn't have been shippers because they were left in a lurch. And it couldn't have been non-shippers because they didn't want to see ship in the first place, so who was the audience? I find the whole Sam/Jack thing a disappointing puzzle and don't want to see them so down that road with any of the main characters in SGA.

Even though I hate the thought of ship in SG1/SGA, I've enjoyed ship in other shows because the writers of those shows didn't treat ship like a gimmick. When ship is well-written then there are consequences and those consequences are consistenly woven into the storyline and the characters' development.

I wish Stargate's TPTB would realize that you can't just ship willy-nilly and expect it to be interesting.

Rac80
July 2nd, 2008, 07:58 AM
I think that one of the other most important things when it comes to ships, is that the characters have to hold their own as characters outside of the ship, that they're not defined, or that they're not only interesting because of who they are in a relationship with, or only interesting when the relationship comes into play within the story. When you're in that territory where the characters are only interesting because of the ship, that's really crap writing, and the interesting/good ships are the ones where the characters are interesting separately initially, and remain so as the relationship progresses. John/Aeryn is definitely a great example of this. And there also have to remain aspects of the relationship between the two characters that aren't ship-related.

Too many shows get in to the territory where the relationship between two shipped characters is UST, and it begins and ends there, and everything else to do with the characters starts to depend on that. Boring, annoying, and makes me want to turn my tv off. :rolleyes:

While I tend to "ship" certain characters myself, I always remember (due to my advanced age) how a confirmed pairing can ruin a show... ie Maddie and Dave from moonlighting, Remington Steele and Laura from Remington Steele, to name just two.. Once they tried to take it beyond the flirtaous stage the shows fizzled. so I like limited ship (is there such a thing) in shows! ;)

gioia
July 2nd, 2008, 08:16 AM
Also, McKay/Keller/Ronon = My head huuuurts!

I do love shipping, especially with the subtext. I think it makes shows more interesting, more realistic especially when it's written well. BUT I say a big, fat, Vaderlike NO to LOVE TRIANGLES. I think no show should goes into that route because in my experiences it always ends up pretty bad.

I have a feeling that in Stargate fandom, it would end up even worse.

Trek_Girl42
July 2nd, 2008, 09:12 AM
I do love shipping, especially with the subtext. I think it makes shows more interesting, more realistic especially when it's written well. BUT I say a big, fat, Vaderlike NO to LOVE TRIANGLES. I think no show should goes into that route because in my experiences it always ends up pretty bad.

I have a feeling that in Stargate fandom, it would end up even worse.I just read JM's tvguide interview, I've been staying away from spoilers so I had no idea until now that there would be aTriangle? Quadrangle? Some sort of shape? In the next season of SGA. :mad:

You know, I didn't mind the Keller/Ronon intrest for an episode. They were stuck in sickbay together, the little flirtation was actually kinda cute (I loved "Quarantine" by the way), but it should have stayed contained with that episode. At the end of they day Keller and Ronon are two very different people, who I don't beleive would maintain an intrest.

Mckay/Keller worked in the context of the final episode. It was showing an alternate life, and I think it's one of the very few times in Stargate that an alternate pairing has worked. We weren't hit over the head with it; it was there but that's where it should be left. Those events won't be happening anymore, life isn't a fairytale, you don't end up with the same person in every alternate scenario. So I accepted that.

But now we're getting a triangle built from a forgotten AU relationship and a brief flirtation in sickbay? Talk about grasping.....UGH. We all know how the TPB have handled relatioships, I can't imagine how they expect this one to be any different.

How about we see a growing friendship between Keller Mckay and Ronon? That would be different and unexpected, but I think that would be a lot more interestig territory to tread. But apparently because there's a woman among men it has to be all about the UST.....

Now I will buy the fact that Keller might find a boyfriend on Atlantis- she's the one character that I will buy that from and I'd be fine with it- hec in all these years of Stargate none of the characters have had a functioning relationship with the exception of Sam, but the Pete storyline was a disaster because they made a big deal out of it and tried to make it "dramatic" (plus the actors had no chemestry whatsoever). But why not make it a peripherary character and not make a deal about it, just go oh yeah, I'm dating so-and-so (how about Chuck?), but not put any emahasis on it.Just, please, keep SGA polygon-free.

jckfan55
July 2nd, 2008, 10:18 AM
I think the SG shows are about the team and establishing romantic complications detracts from the whole premise. that and the fact that TPTB can't write it worth a tinker's dam.
IMHO, their "ship" is a special bond you get when you go to hell and back with someone. SG1 definitely developed that. I'm less convinced by SGA, mostly b/c the show has been too much the Shep/Rodney hour for me.

jrd231
July 28th, 2008, 09:17 AM
I looked through a number of pages and didn't see an Anti-All Shippers thread.

One of the reasons I love Stargate so much is that there are NO RELATIONSHIPS between the main characters. I cannot stomach to watch any show that focuses on romantic relationships among main characters. What are even worse, are shows that are about two main characters who are in love with each other but take seasons to get together. Even though the S/J thing is there, it's never a focal point, and rarely ever talked about on the show.

Romantic relationships in shows are boring and cliche. They are the worst story lines ever created, and serve nothing but to take either a potentially good show, or an already good show and completely ruin them.

Romantic relationships on TV are terrible ideas, and will never serve any purpose but to totally ruin every single show ever created.

That is all.

LoneStar1836
July 29th, 2008, 04:53 PM
Well I disagree that ship ruins every show. :P

I am firmly anti-ship on Stargate as the writers cannot and will never be able to write a proper one. Plus it has no place on either show, but the ship in Farscape was a major part of the show and a part that I quite enjoyed.

Trek_Girl42
July 29th, 2008, 05:13 PM
Well I disagree that ship ruins every show. :P

I am firmly anti-ship on Stargate as the writers cannot and will never be able to write a proper one. Plus it has no place on either show, but the ship in Farscape was a major part of the show and a part that I quite enjoyed.Yup, I agree. I liked the ship on Farscape as well. I don't like blatent lets-hit-you-over-the-head-with-a-bludgeon ship on any show, or constant unrequited UST/pining either, or melodrama. But a ship written and acted well that feels like it naturally works, I'll accept it. I might even love it.

Problem is that they are VERY few and far between. I do have stringent standards for ship. :P The only ones on tv at the moment that I'm enthusiastic about are Adama and Roslin from BSG and Ned and Chuck from Pushing Daisies, two great examples of ships that work, I think. And there are other ones that I think work, but I don't really get excited about any other ships, actually ever. :):P

LoneStar1836
July 29th, 2008, 05:28 PM
Yup, I agree. I liked the ship on Farscape as well. I don't like blatent lets-hit-you-over-the-head-with-a-bludgeon ship on any show, or constant unrequited UST/pining either, or melodrama. But a ship written and acted well that feels like it naturally works, I'll accept it. I might even love it.

Problem is that they are VERY few and far between. I do have stringent standards for ship. :P The only ones on tv at the moment that I'm enthusiastic about are Adama and Roslin from BSG and Ned and Chuck from Pushing Daisies, two great examples of ships that work, I think. And there are other ones that I think work, but I don't really get excited about any other ships, actually ever. :):PYeah that is another really good one for me. John/Aeryn on Farscape will always be my favorite though.

I was on the Starbuck/Lee one but then it got messy. Still like those two, but nowhere near as much as A/R on BSG.

Course then the Sheridan/Delenn one on Babylon 5 served a purpose within the show's story, but I was never really all that into that one.


But I will absolutely never hope for any kind of ship on either Stargate or any future Stargates. The writers already have a difficult time writing for women anyway. Them shoving the women into relationships is not character development. It's a cop out.

Trek_Girl42
July 29th, 2008, 05:48 PM
Yeah that is another really good one for me. John/Aeryn on Farscape will always be my favorite though.

I was on the Starbuck/Lee one but then it got messy. Still like those two, but nowhere near as much as A/R on BSG.

Course then the Sheridan/Delenn one on Babylon 5 served a purpose within the show's story, but I was never really all that into that one.


But I will absolutely never hope for any kind of ship on either Stargate or any future Stargates. The writers already have a difficult time writing for women anyway. Them shoving the women into relationships is not character development. It's a cop out.Yes. Exactly. Yes. I agree. I cannot describe how much I hate that!

I enjoy watching most of the relationships on BSG because everyone is first and foremost a character- even characters like Ellen Tigh who we pretty much saw mostly in relation to Tigh have one hell of a rounded personality and motivations, not just as the "love intrest". I don't ship Lee/Kara, and I kinda don't want them together in the end (I love their friendship too much, and I think that ultiamtely their journeys are very separate), but again, I really like watching their relationship, aside from a few mis-steps in season three (which wasn't actually so bad on DVD, that way it doesn't feel drawn out for months, like in the original airing :P). In order to pull off a truly good ship, you have to have both characters as proven independant interesting people who must remain so even as the ship progresses- meaning they still need their independant stories and motivations that aren't solely dictated by those of the other character. Farscape did this beautifully.

So yeah, it depends on the show, some shows are good at pulling it of, some have their strengths in other places. Stargate just shouldn't attempt it. Male writers SHOULD be able to write decent female characters (though that seems optional), just as female writers HAVE to be able to write male characters. But in this case aside from Martin Gero they really can't. Atlantis really needs to get a woman on the writing staff. Haven't seen B5, though I desperately want to. :P

And, yes, Roslin and Adama did the unthinkable and stole my cold, pessimistic, unromantic, ship-hating heart. *sigh* :P

*sits unpatiently waiting for the comic con preview vid to come out* :D

amconway
July 30th, 2008, 08:38 PM
Huh, what do you know. A thread in the 'ship' section that I can get behind.
I don't specifically hate romance in all programs, but when the characters have a team or partnership relationship, romance tends to suck the life from the show and destroy the most interesting plotlines.
In the stargate example, I would rather see characters dealing with their philosophical/ethical/political differences than their romantic problems. I find that much more interesting and credible.
I also think that too much focus on any one relationship, be it romantic or friendship takes away from the team dynamic that has been such a great part of stargate. There is also the matter of professionalism, and military protocol.
Differences between team members should be pronounced enough to produce interesting plots/character development (ie Jack and Daniel), but also base on something that is a true issue, not just irritation factor (ie McKay and everyone - they need to find more sides of McKay (and all the other team members), so that conflict can be based on larger issues in Atlantis.)
It's all part of the same thing. Stargate should be about dedicated professional teams.

Note: Can't comment on BSG, as I didn't watch it. I've heard that it was great, people I respect really like it, but it was just too dark for me. I like my heros to relatively, er... untainted, for lack of a better word.

DragonLadyK
July 30th, 2008, 10:56 PM
They are the worst story lines ever created, and serve nothing but to take either a potentially good show, or an already good show and completely ruin them.

GSR on CSI. Enough said.


This whole Ronon/Keller/McKay love-triangle the spoilers say is upcoming is filling me with terror.


Shipping is one of those things that belongs in fanfic, not canon. :mckay:

DragonLady

Trek_Girl42
July 30th, 2008, 11:46 PM
GSR on CSI. Enough said.


This whole Ronon/Keller/McKay love-triangle the spoilers say is upcoming is filling me with terror.


Shipping is one of those things that belongs in fanfic, not canon. :mckay:

DragonLadyYup. That scares the living crap out of me too. :P

LoneStar1836
August 1st, 2008, 10:59 AM
GSR on CSI. Enough said.


This whole Ronon/Keller/McKay love-triangle the spoilers say is upcoming is filling me with terror.


Shipping is one of those things that belongs in fanfic, not canon. :mckay:

DragonLadyUgh. :S That was bad on CSI.


And I am so disliking all the lovely spoilers implying ship on SGA. :rolleyes:

Frostfox
August 1st, 2008, 11:33 AM
Huh, what do you know. A thread in the 'ship' section that I can get behind.
I don't specifically hate romance in all programs, but when the characters have a team or partnership relationship, romance tends to suck the life from the show and destroy the most interesting plotlines.
In the stargate example, I would rather see characters dealing with their philosophical/ethical/political differences than their romantic problems. I find that much more interesting and credible.
I also think that too much focus on any one relationship, be it romantic or friendship takes away from the team dynamic that has been such a great part of stargate. There is also the matter of professionalism, and military protocol.
Differences between team members should be pronounced enough to produce interesting plots/character development (ie Jack and Daniel), but also base on something that is a true issue, not just irritation factor (ie McKay and everyone - they need to find more sides of McKay (and all the other team members), so that conflict can be based on larger issues in Atlantis.)
It's all part of the same thing. Stargate should be about dedicated professional teams.

Note: Can't comment on BSG, as I didn't watch it. I've heard that it was great, people I respect really like it, but it was just too dark for me. I like my heros to relatively, er... untainted, for lack of a better word.

That's a biggie for me.
The writers can't write credible romantic relationships without ignoring or diminishing the team relationships, which are much more important to me.

I wouldn't say I hate relationships in TV programmes, not that I watch much TV, I'm just not interested in it. Or romance books or romantic films. I'd far rather my romance be in my real life than vicariously through the media.



Ugh. :S That was bad on CSI.


And I am so disliking all the lovely spoilers implying ship on SGA. :rolleyes:

I have deep sympathy.
We dodged the bullet on SG1; the show ended without romantic debacle, I hope you will be as lucky with SGA, but I fear not.

FF :nox:

Ripple in Space
August 19th, 2008, 02:31 PM
There's a Joe Flannigan interview where he says he thinks that fans don't really want romances on SG. He thinks they like the tension, but if anything came of it it would hurt the show. I agree.

Though I would like to see Jack & Sam get married in the final installment.

marielabbott
August 19th, 2008, 02:48 PM
There's a Joe Flannigan interview where he says he thinks that fans don't really want romances on SG. He thinks they like the tension, but if anything came of it it would hurt the show. I agree.


I also agree. Do you have a link? Very few shows can do a "together" romance well, and I do not think SGA is one of them.

Killdeer
August 19th, 2008, 02:53 PM
I believe the interview in question was one of the video interviews SciFi.com posted last season. They might still have them up if you check there.

Reiko
August 19th, 2008, 03:01 PM
» Okay, I'll say up-front that I ship, I write and erad shippy fic, but I don't want my ships to become canon. Because I really enjoy the friendship emphasis SG has, and less-than-subtle romance (or ANY intended romance) would definately detract from the show.

» Ship should be left to fic writer's and shipper goggles. :cool:

Ripple in Space
August 19th, 2008, 03:50 PM
I also agree. Do you have a link? Very few shows can do a "together" romance well, and I do not think SGA is one of them.
Joe Flanigan does Hulu (http://www.hulu.com/watch/10700/stargate-atlantis-joe-flanigan-qa---part-3#x-4,vclip,1)

Trek_Girl42
August 20th, 2008, 03:55 PM
There's a Joe Flannigan interview where he says he thinks that fans don't really want romances on SG. He thinks they like the tension, but if anything came of it it would hurt the show. I agree.I agree. Except I hate the "tension". But yeah. Any romances would kill the show. It's not that kind of a show!

Frostfox
August 20th, 2008, 04:21 PM
» Okay, I'll say up-front that I ship, I write and erad shippy fic, but I don't want my ships to become canon. Because I really enjoy the friendship emphasis SG has, and less-than-subtle romance (or ANY intended romance) would definately detract from the show.

» Ship should be left to fic writer's and shipper goggles. :cool:

Hear, hear, mostly because the fanfic writers seem to make a better job of it that the show writers.

This is where we slash fans are at an advantage over the het relationship fans; we know from the onset that our pairing is 'below the radar', mostly down to actor chemistry and subtext and our delight in subverting the genre, so we don't have to put up with the clumsy and downright laughable attempts made in the show to pair up male/female characters.
Watching what the showrunners put poor Sam Carter through in the name of 'love' made me furious, it got to the point where the only plotlines the poor character had were all to do with her oh so stellar attempts to bag a man.
And this was such a waste of Amanda Tappings excellent and versatile acting skills and Sam Carter's legacy as an interesting, iconoclastic, scientist cum soldier who just so happened to have her reproductive organs on the inside.

She started so poorly in Children of the Gods as a stereotypical ballsy feminist, she evolved so interestingly into a character who was a strong female icon but it was never made an issue; she was an interesting and realistic character first and foremost, she just happened to be 'the girl' on the show. And then they had to go and blow it in season 7 and 8 because the writers just couldn't live with leaving the S/J and S/P relationships as subtext; they had to force the issue and made such a mess of the character, they had her acting like a love sick 16 year old, not a woman in her late 30's.
So when they lost the Jack part of the S/J equation, at the end of season 8, in their own words 'they didn't know what to do with Sam' and she ended up mostly wallpapered for seasons 9 & 10.
An ignoble end to a fine character.


FF :nox:

amconway
August 20th, 2008, 04:36 PM
An ignoble end to a fine character.
Not an end, thank goodness. She has fared better in the movies. If the movies continue long enough, I expect that we will see all the characters showcased. Continuum gave Cam a lot of opportunity to shine. We'll see who gets to take center stage in the next one. Sounds like it will be Jack, which is fine by me. I'd like to see all the characters get their moment, much as they did with character-centric episodes in the show.

Khentkawes
August 20th, 2008, 05:49 PM
I agree. Except I hate the "tension". But yeah. Any romances would kill the show. It's not that kind of a show!

Agreed. Even the so-called "tension" makes me want to hurl. And whenever they try to create this mystical "tension" it seems to take over everything else. I don't want romantic moments, longing glances, or sappy overtones. Those belong in teen shows and soap operas.

Stargate's version of "romantic tension" seems to just dumb down the characters and detract from the plot. How could that possibly be a good thing?

DragonLadyK
August 20th, 2008, 06:11 PM
Stargate's version of "romantic tension" seems to just dumb down the characters and detract from the plot. How could that possibly be a good thing?

*cough*Ronon/Keller!*cough* Quarantine (and it's setup ep, "Missing") were just painful, because not only did they make Avenger of Blood Ronon into this happy puppy with his figurative heart on his sleeve, but they took competent!Keller from "Adrift" and blew her out of existence.

The thing about shipping that's worst, though, is as others have said: unless it is a Vehicle for Plot Advancement (like Sheridan/Delenn or Worf/Dax), it takes over the show, like GSR on CSI or Ronon/Keller/McKay on SGA. Canon shipping also leads to wank when Ship A's members all head over to the Ship B thread/board/comm and gloat (or outright tell Ship B to stop shipping B because they lost so they must all ship Ship A). It also seems to bring out the worst in the writers.

I like more shooting/work/team in my shows, and less canon shipping.

DragonLady

amconway
August 20th, 2008, 06:18 PM
I like more shooting/work/team in my shows, and less canon shipping.
Hear! Hear! :)

Frostfox
August 21st, 2008, 01:12 AM
*cough*Ronon/Keller!*cough* Quarantine (and it's setup ep, "Missing") were just painful, because not only did they make Avenger of Blood Ronon into this happy puppy with his figurative heart on his sleeve, but they took competent!Keller from "Adrift" and blew her out of existence.

The thing about shipping that's worst, though, is as others have said: unless it is a Vehicle for Plot Advancement (like Sheridan/Delenn or Worf/Dax), it takes over the show, like GSR on CSI or Ronon/Keller/McKay on SGA. Canon shipping also leads to wank when Ship A's members all head over to the Ship B thread/board/comm and gloat (or outright tell Ship B to stop shipping B because they lost so they must all ship Ship A).It also seems to bring out the worst in the writers.

I like more shooting/work/team in my shows, and less canon shipping.

DragonLady

I've never understood some fans need to dictate to other fan groups how they should enjoy the show.
It's a TV show, not a religion, there is no right or wrong way to watch it and your soul isn't going to hell for not worshiping a particular 'ship on the show.
I don't know why fans feel the need to gloat or to talk down to other fans, as I said before, we slash fans are working on subtext rather than canon interpretation any way so why should we care what Ship A gets up to? It's not going to stop us writing fanfic about Ship S or Ship Q or Ship R so why do the Ship A fans care what we get up to?
TPTB could have married Sam and Jack off at the end of SG1 and there would be just as many J/D slash stories out there as there is now (possibly more, as we would have been penning the divorce story before the credits had rolled on the episode).

FF :nox:

jdjunkie
August 21st, 2008, 08:37 AM
I've never understood some fans need to dictate to other fan groups how they should enjoy the show.
It's a TV show, not a religion, there is no right or wrong way to watch it and your soul isn't going to hell for not worshiping a particular 'ship on the show.
I don't know why fans feel the need to gloat or to talk down to other fans, as I said before, we slash fans are working on subtext rather than canon interpretation any way so why should we care what Ship A gets up to? It's not going to stop us writing fanfic about Ship S or Ship Q or Ship R so why do the Ship A fans care what we get up to?
TPTB could have married Sam and Jack off at the end of SG1 and there would be just as many J/D slash stories out there as there is now (possibly more, as we would have been penning the divorce story before the credits had rolled on the episode).

FF :nox:


It's already written ... just in case. ;)

Frostfox
August 21st, 2008, 12:18 PM
It's already written ... just in case. ;)

Laughs, I'll bet it is, and I bet you aren't the only one!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/frostfox/jd00222.gif

FF :nox:

Khentkawes
August 21st, 2008, 02:24 PM
I've never understood some fans need to dictate to other fan groups how they should enjoy the show.
It's a TV show, not a religion, there is no right or wrong way to watch it and your soul isn't going to hell for not worshiping a particular 'ship on the show.
[...]
TPTB could have married Sam and Jack off at the end of SG1 and there would be just as many J/D slash stories out there as there is now (possibly more, as we would have been penning the divorce story before the credits had rolled on the episode).



It's already written ... just in case. ;)

:lol: You both make me laugh.

Frostfox, that was too funny. Although sadly, because it was a semi-accurate description.

What I think is important is that you can enjoy the show (and even spend plenty of time on forums or writing fanfic or whatever you do for fun) and still remember... It's just a TV show.

And clearly, those who want to ship (or slash) will do so no matter what happens. Which is why I think the rest of us should be allowed to enjoy the show without dealing with the "confirmation" some people keep going on about. It's not like the mystical "confirmation" will change anyone's opinions.

DragonLadyK
August 21st, 2008, 04:52 PM
It's a TV show, not a religion, there is no right or wrong way to watch it and your soul isn't going to hell for not worshiping a particular 'ship on the show.
TPTB could have married Sam and Jack off at the end of SG1 and there would be just as many J/D slash stories out there as there is now (possibly more, as we would have been penning the divorce story before the credits had rolled on the episode).
FF :nox:

:jack_new_anime07::indeed::weiranime17::zelenka25:

Way to put things in perspective, because, really now. :D


Which is why I think the rest of us should be allowed to enjoy the show without dealing with the "confirmation" some people keep going on about. It's not like the mystical "confirmation" will change anyone's opinions.

EXACTLY.

The need for "confirmation" baffles me. You (not you, personally, but "you" in the general sense) like the ship, you see shippy moments, you write shippy fanfic -- why on Earth would having it canon mean a whig to you since it's already your personal fanon? If another ship was "confirmed" would that stop you from shipping? No! Would it make you feel your ship was "less right"? Nope! You'd complain and complain on the ship thread about how TPTB have shortsightedly made the other ship canon when your ship is clearly superior!

Arg. The GSR/Grillows war in CSI was enough to make me leave the fandom entirely, especially the spiteful nastiness that went on after GSR was made canon.

Slashers are at least spared that nonsense because we'll never be canon ever, and we know it. ;)

As much as I'm not happy about all the cast & crew being out of work after the end of this season (because that just sucks to have your job disappear), and as nice as new eps are to a fandom -- I'm glad that they're ending the show now, while there's still some adventure n' team in it, instead of waiting until it's degenerated into a soap opera in space.

DragonLady

Khentkawes
August 21st, 2008, 05:53 PM
As much as I'm not happy about all the cast & crew being out of work after the end of this season (because that just sucks to have your job disappear), and as nice as new eps are to a fandom -- I'm glad that they're ending the show now, while there's still some adventure n' team in it, instead of waiting until it's degenerated into a soap opera in space.

That's how I felt when RDA left SG-1. I knew I would miss RDA/Jack, but since it also got rid of the S/J ship, I rejoiced.

I'm also holding out hope that TPTB will be smart and remember that they really don't have time for ship in movies that are less than two hours long. Give me ship-free movies full of team-y action goodness along with new discoveries and exploration. That will keep me happy. :)

Frostfox
August 22nd, 2008, 12:45 AM
snip

The need for "confirmation" baffles me. You (not you, personally, but "you" in the general sense) like the ship, you see shippy moments, you write shippy fanfic -- why on Earth would having it canon mean a whig to you since it's already your personal fanon? If another ship was "confirmed" would that stop you from shipping? No! Would it make you feel your ship was "less right"? Nope! You'd complain and complain on the ship thread about how TPTB have shortsightedly made the other ship canon when your ship is clearly superior!

Arg. The GSR/Grillows war in CSI was enough to make me leave the fandom entirely, especially the spiteful nastiness that went on after GSR was made canon.

Slashers are at least spared that nonsense because we'll never be canon ever, and we know it. ;)

As much as I'm not happy about all the cast & crew being out of work after the end of this season (because that just sucks to have your job disappear), and as nice as new eps are to a fandom -- I'm glad that they're ending the show now, while there's still some adventure n' team in it, instead of waiting until it's degenerated into a soap opera in space.

DragonLady

The bold sentence is the crux of the matter for me.
Just pondering here, but I think there is a fundamental difference in mind set between het 'ship fans and slash fans; the het 'ship fans seem far keener on having canon confirmation and the closer to canon the 'ship is, the greater the pressure.
The slash fans are much more relaxed about canon; they know from the onset that they are not going to get confirmation, they go into their fannish relationship with the show never expecting anything so they let their imaginations and fanfic fill in the gaps, rather than expecting TPTB and show canon to do it for them.
A question. I know of some slash fans who pair characters from different shows, different genre even. Are there het 'ship fans who do the same? Is there Cap'n Jack/Elizabeth Bennett ship fiction out there? 'Cos I bet you I could find Cap'n Jack/Mr Darcy if I looked hard enough (that wasn't a challenge, slash friends ;) Though we all know Jack would).

I'm also amazed by the vitriol fans can spit at each other over something so trivial. It's a TV show. These people aren't real. Whether or not someone else on the internet, thousands of miles from you, agrees with your opinion of a relationship in a entertainment show, is trivial beyond words. Day to day life, love, work, family, friends, living, are all so much more important than a difference of opinion over a TV programme.

FF :nox:

jdjunkie
August 22nd, 2008, 03:30 AM
The need for "confirmation" baffles me. You (not you, personally, but "you" in the general sense) like the ship, you see shippy moments, you write shippy fanfic -- why on Earth would having it canon mean a whig to you since it's already your personal fanon? If another ship was "confirmed" would that stop you from shipping? No! Would it make you feel your ship was "less right"? Nope! You'd complain and complain on the ship thread about how TPTB have shortsightedly made the other ship canon when your ship is clearly superior!

Slashers are at least spared that nonsense because we'll never be canon ever, and we know it. ;)

Very, VERY well said.

I am totally baffled by this seeming entitlement to confirmation. If they're so sure that they're already together, why in the name of all that's holy do they need confirmation? Unless it's to tell us that we we wrong, wrong, wrong all along. :rolleyes: It won't make me feel any differently. TPTB have done a pretty good job of catering to everyone's tastes. The shippers can think Jack and Sam are off together snuggling like bunnies until Jack retires, while the rest of us can happily believe they're doing nothing of the sort.

If they have any sense, TPTB will let things lie.

Let us all take from it what we will.

And that's the way I feel about pretty much all ships, not just this particular one. :)

GateofDOOM
August 22nd, 2008, 08:23 PM
Hello!


I'm no shipper and I'm proud of it!


...Just had to get that out there. :P

Please, return to your discussion.

Khentkawes
August 23rd, 2008, 12:28 AM
Very, VERY well said.

I am totally baffled by this seeming entitlement to confirmation. If they're so sure that they're already together, why in the name of all that's holy do they need confirmation? Unless it's to tell us that we we wrong, wrong, wrong all along. :rolleyes: It won't make me feel any differently. TPTB have done a pretty good job of catering to everyone's tastes. The shippers can think Jack and Sam are off together snuggling like bunnies until Jack retires, while the rest of us can happily believe they're doing nothing of the sort.

If they have any sense, TPTB will let things lie.

Let us all take from it what we will.

And that's the way I feel about pretty much all ships, not just this particular one. :)

Yep! But that's the problem, there are shippers out there who want to tell the rest of us how wrong we are. Not all of them, of course, but some.

I agree that TPTB need to leave things "unconfirmed" so that everyone can have their fun and see whatever they want to see. They've done a good job of that so far. I hope it continues, but with our writers, I'm not sure I can count on it. One or two of them seem obsessed with ship.

As for that last comment, I'm with you one hundred percent. I tend to focus on the S/J ship because I find it the most nauseating. But the others are just as irritating.

After watching Atlantis this week...

[SPOILERS]I have to say that the last little clip with McKay talking to Keller on the video left a sour taste in my mouth. And after an otherwise great episode full of character moments, real emotion, and team bonding (basically everything I've thought Atlantis was lacking) they throw this sappy and less than subtle ship in our faces.

It wasn't the worst instance of ship that they've given us, but it still felt out of place and uncalled for.

elliecat
August 23rd, 2008, 02:04 AM
After watching Atlantis this week...

[SPOILERS]I have to say that the last little clip with McKay talking to Keller on the video left a sour taste in my mouth. And after an otherwise great episode full of character moments, real emotion, and team bonding (basically everything I've thought Atlantis was lacking) they throw this sappy and less than subtle ship in our faces.

It wasn't the worst instance of ship that they've given us, but it still felt out of place and uncalled for.


I know what you mean, it left a sour taste in my mouth aswell (haven't seen it but have read all about it) It did seem out of place, I just can't see where this ship has come from personally, totally out of the blue imo! I have a feeling that that clip will ruin an otherwise good (by the sounds of it) episode.
I hate how they are forcing McKeller on us. If you don't like a certain ship, especially this one for me, it will make the show unbearable to watch. Can't stand soppy scenes between characters and if those two characters don't even have any chemistry, it's even worse. And there are quite a few McKeller episodes coming up, not to mention the love triangle aswell. :S

SGA never used to be shippy like this and I liked it much better for it!

Liv
August 23rd, 2008, 10:41 AM
After watching Atlantis this week...

[SPOILERS]I have to say that the last little clip with McKay talking to Keller on the video left a sour taste in my mouth. And after an otherwise great episode full of character moments, real emotion, and team bonding (basically everything I've thought Atlantis was lacking) they throw this sappy and less than subtle ship in our faces.

It wasn't the worst instance of ship that they've given us, but it still felt out of place and uncalled for.


I agree.

"The Shrine" [and minor mentions of "Trio" and "The Last Man"]

McKay ”loves” Keller? To quote ”The Princess Bride”: I do not think that word means what you think it means. :P

Seriously, did I miss a dozen or so scenes? And how long is ”some time”? This is exactly one of the main reasons why I'm so anti-ship everything on Stargate – there's just no rhyme or reason to it. His confession is so completely out of the blue that I just have to laugh at how silly it really is.

I actually did not mind at all the end of ”Trio” with McKay and Keller going out for a drink and I even thought they had some nice chemistry in ”The Last Man” but to go from that [one tag scene and one AU episode] to a confession of love in that short amount of time, with basically no other build-up at all? If he'd said ”I like you. I've liked you for some time now” - that would have been fine, or at least acceptable, but love? No. Just... no.

Khentkawes
August 24th, 2008, 03:49 PM
I agree.

"The Shrine" [and minor mentions of "Trio" and "The Last Man"]

McKay ”loves” Keller? To quote ”The Princess Bride”: I do not think that word means what you think it means. :P

Seriously, did I miss a dozen or so scenes? And how long is ”some time”? This is exactly one of the main reasons why I'm so anti-ship everything on Stargate – there's just no rhyme or reason to it. His confession is so completely out of the blue that I just have to laugh at how silly it really is.

I actually did not mind at all the end of ”Trio” with McKay and Keller going out for a drink and I even thought they had some nice chemistry in ”The Last Man” but to go from that [one tag scene and one AU episode] to a confession of love in that short amount of time, with basically no other build-up at all? If he'd said ”I like you. I've liked you for some time now” - that would have been fine, or at least acceptable, but love? No. Just... no.

more Shrine spoilers...
Yep. I didn't mind the Trio/Last Man stuff either. But this was just not even subtle. "I love you"? Where did that come from? And from Rodney? the guy who tried to propose to someone else last year? It made him look like he doesn't understand his own feelings... much the way the writers handled Sam and the many guys who all seemed to be in love with her. *gag*

It reminded me of the dreaded D&C "I care about her more than I'm supposed to" line. What exactly is that supposed to mean? It feels like the writers don't know how to write emotion and so they write this sap instead. It was especially bad tacked onto an otherwise superb episode that was much more team/family centered, and really had no place for romance thrown in.

And the episode really was fantastic without that line. I'm normally pretty critical of Atlantis, but this was the first episode since "Sunday" where I've stopped and said "wow, that was truly terrific writing." But then I had to roll my eyes at the shippy nonsense that came in at the end.

It's kind of the same way I felt about Threads. They both should have been top notch episodes, but were marred by unnecessary, sappy, non-subtle ship. Actually, Threads was worse IMO. Shrine was just one little line. Okay, one big line, but still. With Threads, I fast-forward most of the parts with Sam when I watch it, so I can avoid cringing at the weird pseudo-romantic nonsense.

On a side note Liv, you cracked me up with the Princess Bride line. You think we can get the Princess Bride clergyman to come to Atlantis?
"And wuv, twue wuv, will fowllow you forewer..."
Pretty much describes the shippyness on the show. :p

DragonLadyK
August 24th, 2008, 04:17 PM
more Shrine spoilers...
Yep. I didn't mind the Trio/Last Man stuff either. But this was just not even subtle. "I love you"? Where did that come from? And from Rodney? the guy who tried to propose to someone else last year? It made him look like he doesn't understand his own feelings... much the way the writers handled Sam and the many guys who all seemed to be in love with her. *gag*

The "Trio"/"Last Man" McKay/Keller didn't bother me, either, but this ep was, as you said, a really good ep infused with pointless sap.

The part about the entire McKay/Keller interaction is that once McKay made his romantic intentions known -- intentions Keller clearly reciprocated -- the doctor-patient relationship should have ended. But Keller continued to act as his primary physician for the entire frigging' episode even while playing the video of a man with a disease called "Second Childhood" (and children say "love" when they mean "like" all the time as they discover the other gender doesn't really have cooties) saying he loved her over and over again like it was a letter from a lover instead of something said by a brain damaged patient.

That's not either a gross violation of the AMA Code of Medical Ethics for Keller (like teasing McKay about his physical results in front of Carter in "Trio") or a truly pathetic attempt at believeable romance. Oh. Wait. I'll make that "and" instead of "or."

Then, of course, there was Keller's combative dismissial of the Shrine. The writers were so intent on making it look like Keller was the only one who "really knew" Rodney and wouldn't just give up on him and the only one who knew one last day would be "torture" for him that they unintentionally made her into a dick who not only completely ignored the natives' assertions that the Shrine worked as if they were superstitious savages, but a doctor who didn't make the cowpox/smallpox jump that something that ameliorates can lead the way to a cure. (Which, um, it did! That radiation/incision procedure can now be replicated by Lantean personell for other allied worlds citizens with the disease. Guess it's a good thing Jeannie didn't listen to Keller, huh?)

I won't say the McKeller storyline wrecked the ep for me, because I still liked the ep. The Mckay-and-Shep scene on the pier, Jeannie, and Ronon's actions, and Woolsey's confession were all very well-written and the actors really hit it out of the park. But the McKeller storyline was waste of screentime that would have been better spent on that "great McKay/Zelenka scene" that was cut and a scene with Rodney and Teyla.

Don't get me started on Sam and her many loves. We'll be here all night. There's a reason Tapping (or so I've heard) told the writers to just write Carter as a scientist and soldier, she'd convey Carter as a woman.

Like I've said elsewhere, I think the Ronon/Keller/McKay triangle was the last bad business decision MGM was willing to pay for (like pulling popular products to make room for less-popular products and aggressively marketing a massively unpopular product at the expense of popular ones). So they called a mulligan and decided to start fresh with SGU.

DragonLady

amconway
August 24th, 2008, 04:34 PM
Actually, the shippy stuff in the shrine didn't bother me as it had a significant plot point. There was an underlying subtext throughout the episode of the selfinterested nature of the decisions that were being made for and about Rodney. It was done sympathetically enough to be fairly subtle, but each person around him was basing decisions about 'what would Rodney want' on their personal needs and beliefs.
Keller was influenced by her initial charm at Rodney's new behavior, leading to her guilt about not finding the parasite earlier. She was then further influenced by his 'declaration'. Her desire not to stop treatment was based on a combination of guilt and personal involvement.
Jeannie did the opposite. She made the decision to end treatment, ensuring his death, so she could say goodbye to the brother she remembered, without considering what that would mean for him.
Both were making decisions based on their own needs as were all the members of the team. It was a pretty powerful counterpoint to the action plotline and the main plotline of Rodney's descent and his friends support.

LoneStar1836
August 24th, 2008, 05:24 PM
Ugh. I enjoyed half of Thread and hated the other half. I'm sure you can guess which half I hated.

I hated what became of Carter because imo she took the brunt of it. Jack's character pretty much skated away clean.



The drink in Trio I didn't mind so much, but I did roll my eyes at Last Man because I had a feeling that would then materialize in season 5. (Though I can't remember if there were already rumors of it in S5 before LM aired.)

As far as "The Shrine"....really good ep but I am dreading the aftermath of that last line in future eps, especially Brainstorm which appears to be the worst one that's upcoming.

Some more on the Shrine...

The line didn't ruin the episode for me because I could feel it coming on somewhere there in the middle or something in one of those vids Keller was watching where McKay says he wants to say something/tell her something...I guess that was the first part of the vid at the end where they then actually play what he says...anyway I'm rambling here...but I had a feeling that what he wanted to say was something directed at Keller.


I might (and I stress "might") could have bought the "I love you" line if say that whole illness with McKay had been a long drawn out affair...more than two weeks or whatever it was...say a couple of months. (I was kinda confused on the whole time frame as I don't think I noticed the date stamp on the vid in the opening teaser and then didn't pay attention to the one where he declared you know what.) McKay and Keller would have then spent a whole heck of lot of time together trying to work through this illness...and maybe, I could see him expressing that sentiment. Florence Nightingale effect perhaps (on both their parts) if I need to make up an excuse for this seemingly now cannon ship. (Or can I say he was too far gone to know what the heck he was saying. ;) Even though apparently he was still coherent enough. :mckay:)


But outside of the drink in Trio, there hasn't been any suggestion that there was anything between those two. At least with Katie Brown they dated or whatever in the background so when Quarantine rolled around, him proposing wasn't out of the blue.

Anyway...this whole mess just kind of proves my point that when writers don't know what the heck to do with a female character, they just ship her. They make Keller a main character and then immediately ship her off with another main character *bleh*...and then hint at a future love triangle. *double bleh*

I will always dislike main character ship on Stargate.

Frostfox
August 25th, 2008, 12:46 PM
Hello!


I'm no shipper and I'm proud of it!


...Just had to get that out there. :P

Please, return to your discussion.

And so say all of us, welcome.


Yep! But that's the problem, there are shippers out there who want to tell the rest of us how wrong we are. Not all of them, of course, but some.

I agree that TPTB need to leave things "unconfirmed" so that everyone can have their fun and see whatever they want to see. They've done a good job of that so far. I hope it continues, but with our writers, I'm not sure I can count on it. One or two of them seem obsessed with ship.

As for that last comment, I'm with you one hundred percent. I tend to focus on the S/J ship because I find it the most nauseating. But the others are just as irritating.

After watching Atlantis this week...

[SPOILERS]I have to say that the last little clip with McKay talking to Keller on the video left a sour taste in my mouth. And after an otherwise great episode full of character moments, real emotion, and team bonding (basically everything I've thought Atlantis was lacking) they throw this sappy and less than subtle ship in our faces.

It wasn't the worst instance of ship that they've given us, but it still felt out of place and uncalled for.


It feels as though they either want to rub our noses in it, which would be stunningly juvenile or that they are so insecure that they need confirmation to prove that they are right. I just don't see a case of 'right' or 'wrong' just a viewers prerogative to see what they want in a show. As you say though, it isn't all of the 'ship fans; some of them are sensible adults.


I agree.

"The Shrine" [and minor mentions of "Trio" and "The Last Man"]

McKay ”loves” Keller? To quote ”The Princess Bride”: I do not think that word means what you think it means. :P

Snipped.

This made my fall about laughing and I adore your sig's tag line!


more Shrine spoilers...
Yep. I didn't mind the Trio/Last Man stuff either. But this was just not even subtle. "I love you"? Where did that come from? And from Rodney? the guy who tried to propose to someone else last year? It made him look like he doesn't understand his own feelings... much the way the writers handled Sam and the many guys who all seemed to be in love with her. *gag*

It reminded me of the dreaded D&C "I care about her more than I'm supposed to" line. What exactly is that supposed to mean? It feels like the writers don't know how to write emotion and so they write this sap instead. It was especially bad tacked onto an otherwise superb episode that was much more team/family centered, and really had no place for romance thrown in.

And the episode really was fantastic without that line. I'm normally pretty critical of Atlantis, but this was the first episode since "Sunday" where I've stopped and said "wow, that was truly terrific writing." But then I had to roll my eyes at the shippy nonsense that came in at the end.

It's kind of the same way I felt about Threads. They both should have been top notch episodes, but were marred by unnecessary, sappy, non-subtle ship. Actually, Threads was worse IMO. Shrine was just one little line. Okay, one big line, but still. With Threads, I fast-forward most of the parts with Sam when I watch it, so I can avoid cringing at the weird pseudo-romantic nonsense.

On a side note Liv, you cracked me up with the Princess Bride line. You think we can get the Princess Bride clergyman to come to Atlantis?
"And wuv, twue wuv, will fowllow you forewer..."
Pretty much describes the shippyness on the show. :p

Both Threads and Chimera were dragged down by the dumb and heavy handed addition of Sam's oh-so-thrilling love life. Who wants to watch the fabulous, beautiful, talented Amanda wasting her acting time as Sam dressing in twin set and pearls and making goo goo eyes at her highly uncomfortable boss while he has a quiet weekend with his girlfriend? The interesting parts of the plotlines, those significant to the actual arc of, oh, what was that show called, oh yes Stargate: Sam's Love Life, came to a grinding halt every time.


Snip

Don't get me started on Sam and her many loves. We'll be here all night. There's a reason Tapping (or so I've heard) told the writers to just write Carter as a scientist and soldier, she'd convey Carter as a woman.

Like I've said elsewhere, I think the Ronon/Keller/McKay triangle was the last bad business decision MGM was willing to pay for (like pulling popular products to make room for less-popular products and aggressively marketing a massively unpopular product at the expense of popular ones). So they called a mulligan and decided to start fresh with SGU.

DragonLady

Amanda has always had her head screwed on tight, bright woman and she did an utterly fabulous job with Sam, whenever the writers gave her the material (and, occasionally, even when they didn't).


Ugh. I enjoyed half of Thread and hated the other half. I'm sure you can guess which half I hated.

I hated what became of Carter because imo she took the brunt of it. Jack's character pretty much skated away clean.

Oooh, don't get me started! She certainly did and it drove me bats.





The drink in Trio I didn't mind so much, but I did roll my eyes at Last Man because I had a feeling that would then materialize in season 5. (Though I can't remember if there were already rumors of it in S5 before LM aired.)

As far as "The Shrine"....really good ep but I am dreading the aftermath of that last line in future eps, especially Brainstorm which appears to be the worst one that's upcoming.

Some more on the Shrine...

The line didn't ruin the episode for me because I could feel it coming on somewhere there in the middle or something in one of those vids Keller was watching where McKay says he wants to say something/tell her something...I guess that was the first part of the vid at the end where they then actually play what he says...anyway I'm rambling here...but I had a feeling that what he wanted to say was something directed at Keller.


I might (and I stress "might") could have bought the "I love you" line if say that whole illness with McKay had been a long drawn out affair...more than two weeks or whatever it was...say a couple of months. (I was kinda confused on the whole time frame as I don't think I noticed the date stamp on the vid in the opening teaser and then didn't pay attention to the one where he declared you know what.) McKay and Keller would have then spent a whole heck of lot of time together trying to work through this illness...and maybe, I could see him expressing that sentiment. Florence Nightingale effect perhaps (on both their parts) if I need to make up an excuse for this seemingly now cannon ship. (Or can I say he was too far gone to know what the heck he was saying. ;) Even though apparently he was still coherent enough. :mckay:)


But outside of the drink in Trio, there hasn't been any suggestion that there was anything between those two. At least with Katie Brown they dated or whatever in the background so when Quarantine rolled around, him proposing wasn't out of the blue.

Anyway...this whole mess just kind of proves my point that when writers don't know what the heck to do with a female character, they just ship her. They make Keller a main character and then immediately ship her off with another main character *bleh*...and then hint at a future love triangle. *double bleh*

I will always dislike main character ship on Stargate.

Which just goes to show that they didn't learn their lesson with SG1, which is very sad.

FF :nox:

Liv
August 27th, 2008, 02:00 PM
On a side note Liv, you cracked me up with the Princess Bride line. You think we can get the Princess Bride clergyman to come to Atlantis?
"And wuv, twue wuv, will fowllow you forewer..."
<laughs> Wouldn't that be something! ;) :D


I adore your sig's tag line!
Thanks, I'm pretty fond of that one myself. :D