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GateWorld
February 2nd, 2009, 06:42 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/417.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">BATTLESTAR GALACTICA SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">SOMEONE TO WATCH OVER ME</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 417</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Kara meets a composer in the bar while she struggles to come to terms with what she found on Earth. The rebel Cylons ask to try Boomer for treason, leading Chief Tyrol to reconnect with her.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Skydiver
February 27th, 2009, 07:49 PM
i think we just met kara's daddy

he's a cylon and he taught her the tune

hera (oops, meant to say boomer) 'freed' ellen just so that eight could get onto galactica and kidnap hera

now, is that daniel?

and i was right, the piano player was in her head

PG15
February 27th, 2009, 08:00 PM
Ha, totally called Kara playing the Cylon tune.

I was going "play the song, play the song, play the song" as she started, and BAM! There it was. Very cool scene, that one.

Other than that though, episode was sloooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwww.

Smashing Young Man
February 27th, 2009, 08:00 PM
Daniel must be the big manipulator behind the scenes. Boring episode.

Zamboni
February 27th, 2009, 08:01 PM
I don't get how Hera "freed" Ellen... And I told you all that Starbuck is a Cylon!!!

Maybe Hera is not the product of true love, but a hidden genetic code designed by Cavil in order to facilitate a spy within the fleet, and that Hera's mind is actually connected to a hybrid using the same connection as the Cylon resurrection network!!! OMG!!! It all makes sense now!


*falls into coma*

Starsaber
February 27th, 2009, 08:02 PM
Not as exciting as some, but absolutely significant. Between Hera's kidnapping, Starbuck's Head :daniel:, the damage to Galactica, and what looks like Roslin's death, this may be the most big stuff that's happened in one episode since the miniseries.

CKO
February 27th, 2009, 08:03 PM
i'm even more confused then when the ep started.

*sighs* it was slower moving then the last eps too. okay so Boomer knocked out Athena, frakked Helo and kidnapped Hera... did Chief play a part in getting boomer out of the cell in the first place?!

HAL2100
February 27th, 2009, 08:04 PM
The details please...12 hours till I can download it via iTunes and watch it...

MrBojangles
February 27th, 2009, 08:04 PM
I don't get how Hera "freed" Ellen... And I told you all that Starbuck is a Cylon!!!

Maybe Hera is not the product of true love, but a hidden genetic code designed by Cavil in order to facilitate a spy within the fleet, and that Hera's mind is actually connected to a hybrid using the same connection as the Cylon resurrection network!!! OMG!!! It all makes sense now!


*falls into coma*

My money is still on Kara being the first true Cylon-Human Hybrid.

McSwift
February 27th, 2009, 08:05 PM
Ha, totally called Kara playing the Cylon tune.

I was going "play the song, play the song, play the song" as she started, and BAM! There it was. Very cool scene, that one.

Other than that though, episode was sloooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwww.


Touche,

I did find it was pretty slow too, but then again, I guess it was important to explain the story.

What I really don't understand right now is?

1) Theres 12 cylons + a 13th Cylon? (Starbuck's dad)?

2) What could Hera be of use to Cavil besides behind the new generation of Human and Cylon Breed?

3) If Chief wanted to frack an 8, why not frack some other 8. Geeeze

Skydiver
February 27th, 2009, 08:05 PM
yes, he did. when he picked up the wrench, he used that to whack an eight, took advantage of the power outage to swap them

that's why he was so stricken at the end, he realized that it's all his fault, she played him like a harp

Starsaber
February 27th, 2009, 08:07 PM
1) Theres 12 cylons + a 13th Cylon? (Starbuck's dad)?


My guess is that Starbuck's dad is "Daniel", model 7, which it was assumed that Cavil had destroyed every copy of. Daniel was mentioned in the episode 2 weeks ago.

TheChosen1
February 27th, 2009, 08:10 PM
Anyone catch that little tune, paying homage to TOS, that kara said they guy was ripping off. Yeah I thought they guy was real and it was her father but after Tory and Tigh came up to her, and he disappeared, I have to agree it was all in her head. With her playing all along the watchtower, there is definitely a connection and with her and the cylons. Possibly Head Daniel ? And if so then we have Head Six, Head baltar and Head Daniel. So what does this all mean? Hmmmmmm. Perhaps The Lords of Kobol? We got three so far then it that's the case?

Poor Chief, I really felt for him there. Man and he feels like total chit now. Also It looks like the president is dead. You notice just as hera was jumped away from the fleet she falls down and then the marine checks her pulse on the neck. I think she is either dead or in a comma. Why? Because of her connection to Hera and the blood transfusion she got to help her stave off the cancer and that blood is how she was able to see the opera house dreams with the six and the 8. So Roseyln may be dead now.


TheChosen1

Sue_Jackson
February 27th, 2009, 08:11 PM
Holy frakkin' cow! :eek:

I think Hera is Boomer's and Galen's daughter reborn/ressurrected!

Also. Kara is a cylon! She has to be. How else would she know that song? And....was that guy playing the piano really with her, or just in her mind.....and may be Kara is recalling things from her former past just like a cylon would such as Galen and Boomer? And....may be that piano player is Daniel......and which would mean....Daniel is Kara's father! :eek:

And.....what about Laura?? Did she die?? OMG! I'm freaking out here! I'm so confused. :S

Tanty
February 27th, 2009, 08:11 PM
Did anyone else catch the beginning of the original BSG theme music? May be my imagination but when he was messing around trying to think of the second act of his composition it sounded just like that piece of music...

If anyone recalls.. it's when the voice over appears in the original music of the series.

Haha... seems someone else noticed as well :)

trinity23
February 27th, 2009, 08:11 PM
I thought this episode was AWESOME. Another 6 with a name (Sonia), I always wonder why she (6) gets to be so unique and have all these models. 8 pretty much has Boomer and Athena, but 6 has - Natalie, Gina, Caprica, Shelly & now Sonia.

I didn't before, but now I think The Galactica is the dying leader. I think this episode cemented that theory.

Boomer fraking Helo & making Athena watch! WOW! Helo not recognizing his wife - SAD. She even smelled different! Sometimes Helo can be too trusting & stupid.

Knew that Piano guy wasn't there.

THEY SWITCHED HERA!!! WHY? With only 3 episodes left what was the point? Ridiculous.

I don't think Roslyn is dead.....but I do think she is connected to Hera (Caprica as well)....

lanfearr
February 27th, 2009, 08:12 PM
Does anyone know a link to youtube or another website where I can hear that final 5 head music the one that Kara starts playing.
Or if that piece has a title?

DigiFluid
February 27th, 2009, 08:12 PM
Wow that was really, really good. Those musical cuts better make it onto the season 4 soundtrack.

ToasterOnFire
February 27th, 2009, 08:12 PM
I feel like I watched 40 minutes of show to get only 10 minutes of good material. That's...very frustrating. :mckay:

I liked Kara on the piano finally getting the tune and Boomer turning on everyone and stealing Hara in a box. The connection between Roslin and the Galactica was too heavy-handed, IMO. I am dying to know Roslin's relation with Hera though.

Skydiver
February 27th, 2009, 08:14 PM
kara is tormented by dreams, who is she? if she's on the planet, then who is she
she drinks in the bar, there's a piano man that annoys her, they start talking, he's trying to compose a song. she remembers about how her dad did that

adama and roslyn want to kill boomer, the six that was just elected to the senate asks for boomer to be killed for treason (siding with cavil), roslyn and adama are happy to agree

chief doesn't want her to die. he visits her, she shows him memories of their life from before and that they had a daughter

chief manipulates getting boomer out of the brig by swapping her with one of the other eights

boomer attacks athena, locks her up. then hubby comes in, so boomer fraks him while athena sees through a crack in the closet door. boomer then goes to daycare and picks up hera.

prior to this, hera had visited hera's daddy and hera gave her a drawing of a bunch of circles in a line. when kara is with pianoman (who my money is on being Daniel) they connect the dots, almost literally, and the dots that hera drew are music notes...the same song that all the cylons heard that drew them to their first meeting place

kara starts to play and it's revealed that piano man is Head Piano Man. the other cylons are in the bar, tigh asks how she knew that song, 'my dad used to play that to me' and he taught it to her. we have opera house type lighting

athena stumbles out and tells them what happened. boomer tries to leave galactica with hera. they try to stop her. they retract the drive pods (tres cool) but she gets out anyway. she spools up the ftl drive and jumps while she's in close proximity to galactica, and the shock wave tears a hole in the ship

as hera jumps away (locked in a box) roslyn collapses.

we end with roslyn on the floor, kara still clinging to anders, the ship falling apart

and promos for next week

suggest someoen falling, structural integrity continuing to fail, tigh not wanting to give up the ship, adama saying he needs to let it go, adama collapsing - possibly in grief

Briangate78
February 27th, 2009, 08:15 PM
I feel like I watched 40 minutes of show to get only 10 minutes of good material. That's...very frustrating. :mckay:

I liked Kara on the piano finally getting the tune and Boomer turning on everyone and stealing Hara in a box. The connection between Roslin and the Galactica was too heavy-handed, IMO. I am dying to know Roslin's relation with Hera though.

The ep was slow, but the last 10 mins was Wow!! Heck it beats last week's which was all pretty boring ,lol.

The Starbuck bits are coming together. Well with 3 eps left, sure we will know soon enough.

TheChosen1
February 27th, 2009, 08:15 PM
Did anyone else catch the beginning of the original BSG theme music? May be my imagination but when he was messing around trying to think of the second act of his composition it sounded just like that piece of music...

If anyone recalls.. it's when the voice over appears in the original music of the series.

Haha... seems someone else noticed as well :)


Yes it was, it was usually the tune when ever they showed the base ships or going towards the base ships in the original series. Im not sure whats the name of the tune but anyone who remembers the and the tune knows what I'm talkiing about.

TheChosen1

TheHomegaMan
February 27th, 2009, 08:15 PM
Roslin's not out yet. No way. The marine checked her neck and immediately started screaming for a medic. They're not going to pull a Natalie with her.

As for The Musician, are we sure he was in Kara's head? I was in and out of the room, so I missed the very beginnings of acts, but I don't recall anything tipping it off. Unless The Musician (refuse to call him Daniel yet) wasn't there when Saul came up behind her? I'd have to rewatch it to be certain.

More impressions once I have time to jot them down instead of rapidly getting ready and going out...

walterIsTheMan
February 27th, 2009, 08:16 PM
So Boomer betrayed the Chief's trust, took advantage of his feelings, lied to him, and made him feel extremely guilty.

Maybe she's a human female after all. ;)

ToasterOnFire
February 27th, 2009, 08:18 PM
Yeah, the piano player was gone when Saul came up and startled Kara. I'm pretty sure he's a vision/angel/chip/whatever.

Sela
February 27th, 2009, 08:18 PM
i'm even more confused then when the ep started.

OMG - I am so glad I'm not the only one...

TheChosen1
February 27th, 2009, 08:18 PM
I feel like I watched 40 minutes of show to get only 10 minutes of good material. That's...very frustrating. :mckay:

I liked Kara on the piano finally getting the tune and Boomer turning on everyone and stealing Hara in a box. The connection between Roslin and the Galactica was too heavy-handed, IMO. I am dying to know Roslin's relation with Hera though.

Here relationship is the blood transfusion which cured her of the cancer for a brief time. And also the opera house dreams is the connection. We now know why six athena and rosilin's was trying to protect hera, cause boomer took her and now they have to get her back.

TheChosen1

TheHomegaMan
February 27th, 2009, 08:19 PM
OK, final thought before I dash out the door...

Take the episode as a big picture type thing. If we hadn't had the admittedly long bit with Kara and The Musician forming their relationship and having her open up about one significant song, her playing All Along the Watchtower would've lose some of it's punch. It was buildup, but it was needed. Ditto on the Boomer projection scenes. I know I wasn't the only one who initially bought it.

Development takes time. Stop watching the calendar and start watching the stories.

Starsaber
February 27th, 2009, 08:23 PM
The Musician (refuse to call him Daniel yet)

Guessing that Musician = Starbuck's dad = :daniel:

The first name on the tape started with D at least.

HAL2100
February 27th, 2009, 08:24 PM
So Boomer betrayed the Chief's trust, took advantage of his feelings, lied to him, and made him feel extremely guilty.

Maybe she's a human female after all. ;)

All from a machine...

TheHomegaMan
February 27th, 2009, 08:25 PM
Guessing that Musician = Starbuck's dad = :daniel:

The first name on the tape started with D at least.

Dreilide Thrace, IIRC.

To be fair, Daniel as her father has been my pet theory since No Exit. I'm just not going to jump the gun.

the fifth man
February 27th, 2009, 08:27 PM
Tonight's episode definitely set the stage for what is left in this show. I really hope Kara will finally discover who/what she is, Hera will be rescued, and that b**** Boomer gets a bullet between the eyes from Athena.

Chev's Ron
February 27th, 2009, 08:28 PM
Interesting, If It wasn't for the bartender talking about the piano in a couple of episodes before, I would have thought that the piano player was an illusion.

I totally believe that Kara's father was Daniel or some final "six?"

Boomer deserves to be strung up by her womanhood, having Athena watch all of that with her husband. Fraking boomer needs to "boom" herself.

Galactica is toast, time to take as much as you can carry and set up shop on the baseship!

Basestar Galactica, I could live with that.

HAL2100
February 27th, 2009, 08:32 PM
See but why not tie up Cavil and Boomer and lock them away in separate containers in some place far, far, far away and with the keys right there in plain site...of course they'd be hooked up to some sort of power source that would never run out so that they'd have a very good long time to think about things as they just sat there for eons...maybe Boomer's butt would grow and attach itself to the chair like the lady who stayed in the bathroom for several years.

PG15
February 27th, 2009, 08:36 PM
Development takes time. Stop watching the calendar and start watching the stories.

Shouldn't Development be interesting in and of itself, rather than a plotting means to an interesting end?

the fifth man
February 27th, 2009, 08:50 PM
Shouldn't Development be interesting in and of itself, rather than a plotting means to an interesting end?

I found it interesting enough.

HAL2100
February 27th, 2009, 08:50 PM
Shouldn't Development be interesting in and of itself, rather than a plotting means to an interesting end?

Neither is mutually exclusive. I won't be able to watch it till tommorrow, but knowing that we now have Head-Billy Joel (yes I think that's how we should refer to him), I'm going to be quite intrigued.

sing us a song, you're the Piano Man!
sing us a song, tonight
for we're out in the mood for a melody
and you got us feeling alright,
la la la la ditty da

now Tigh at the bar is a lonely man
they serve him his drinks for free
and there 's Ellen who's Yellin'
'cause she's banging the infantry

And the colonials are practicing politics
As the hybrids slowly get stoned
Yes, theyre sharing a drink they call loneliness
But its better than drinkin alone

ToasterOnFire
February 27th, 2009, 08:55 PM
I found a lot of the development in this ep and the last one to be more repetitious than interesting. Adama watches ship repairs yet again, check. Starbuck and the piano yet again, check. I kinda wish they had taken the best elements from these last two eps and combined them.

chris777
February 27th, 2009, 08:56 PM
Interesting if predictable.

I was kind of expecting the Boomer betrayal this afternoon when a commercial came on.

These "deceptive" commercials are now red herrings and are definitely not to be trusted especially during these last few EPs.

With all of the talk about Karas dad after Blood OTS (which I somehow missed because I don't remember it in the episode just on the forum)
It became pretty obvious especially when she started expressing Daddy issues, to the player, given he had no name. I am kind of leaning toward the were all cyons notion especially after the mid season premiere, but they could throw anything at us given they wrote it all on the fly.

But as it stands it looks as if starbuck may be the first hybrid, and then Hera.
and other than some other method she obviously downloaded in some shape or form. Given she dissapeared for so long it would be enough time for them to create a body through her remaining tissue, grow it mature it, and turn it back loose. plus rebuild a viper from scratch, and she only though a few hours had past. And now that I think about it, the ship the final(, or should we now call them the "first" )five(?) downloaded to when earth was nuked, has not been accounted for. So that's one possibility, as well as the upcoming resurrection hinted at in the next ep. As for her daddy being Daniel, Eh maybe , well probably, but its too much of a n out to tie up the plot, so who cares, they effectively have 2 episodes left.

I am gonna say it because everyone else doesnt seem to have the stones to.
Ronald moore must be a pansy, or a flake. he is definitely unstable. I brought it up before that they kept harping the cylon "plan" and did nothing with it, then they conveniently axed it from the opening. Then he tells us that they have decided to close it out after only 4 seasons, because they felt like it was time and they wanted to end it on their own terns. Please give me a break that is a crock. This whole entire show has been written completely and totaly on the fly, so while it does leave us open to surprise shockers, like boomer sluggin athena, and frakin helo , it is merely shock value and not some grand scheme that he and David Eick had planned from the beginning.
my question is why? Is he just bored with it, and wants to move on the the soap that will be caprica? They can act like they had this planned and it was winding down , but like most stuff its a ruse and they are being forced to cram story into the final episodes to "reveal" key plot points as Si fi has so heavily advertised. But things are feeling really forced. with several characters If not all of them. Its like watching someone who is unstable crack under the pressure, it can be entertainment to some, but ultimately its sad, and pathetic, but lets move on since in 3.5 episodes any discussion will be moot, but I do feel there is more going on than we have been told, maybe its the Glen Larsen project and the head honchos wanting to end this version before the movie, but this is too forced to be " planned", unless of course Ron Moore has one helluva case of ADD, and just has become bored with the project. I mean look at the simpsons. it could go on forever if enough effort is made for it to.

So the scream of anguish was athena over having her hubby, and then child taken by boomer. That was actually suprising, but then again I still don't understand why Boomer has this anger, and, resentment, unless of course they are going to say its her inherent instability, like where she, and later the chief suspected they were cylons, and she went mad from the realization, hence her neck snapping remark back on the algae planet epidode, and siding with cavil. And he beat the snot out of cally.

Another issue thats bugging me is the ridiculous hook ups, and allegance swapping, Are the writers like trying to say they are ultimate fans of "survivor" or something, and they are demonstrating this through the constant, and in many cases unexplained, unstable, and just bizzare couplings, pairings, and team ups. We know Why Tigh went for caprica, but why the hell did caprica go for tigh? I do nt know If I mentioned it, or if someone else has but I for one found it interesting that He seemed to hold the life of his child entirely in his hands through sheer willpower. And when ellen came in the mix it all feel apart. Then of course the constant cylon team switching, lets treat the humans as pets, then fight each other, then team up with the humans, then debate leaving them then in the very next episode act like noting happened. It was kind of like when Deanna was ready to take the five and leave the fleet, then when they found earth they were all cozy again. its just too much like some corn ball soap opera.

Speaking of soaps I am sorry but I for one am far more interested from a storytelling perspective about the cylons on earth and their fall, than some pretentious soap opera that will be caprica. But hey what Do I know?

lots of other interestign tid bits and musings, but eh Ill read some post now.

DigiFluid
February 27th, 2009, 08:58 PM
So Boomer betrayed the Chief's trust, took advantage of his feelings, lied to him, and made him feel extremely guilty.

Maybe she's a human female after all. ;)

Epic. If I could green you, I would.

Detox
February 27th, 2009, 08:59 PM
Man, Galen looked really messed up when he realized what he had done.

I'll bet he kills Boomer next time he see hers.

bfldworker
February 27th, 2009, 09:02 PM
While I do agree this episode was slow. I think it needed to be slow to reveal a lot.

But, first.

KARA IS SO A CYLON!

The only thing that makes sense is simple. She was on "Earth" 2000 years ago and when the bombs fell. She must have downloaded to this ship in orbit that Ellen referred to in "Sometimes a great notion". When she died in Maelstrom she must have either hitched a ride to the resurrection hub or ship and came back.

I am also going to postulate something as well.

This episode proved that only Cylons can "project" with each other.

In many of episodes Roslin, Athena and Caprica 6 have the same dream about the opera house. Could that mean that Roslin is also a Cylon? Perhaps from Earth 2000 years ago? The same question stands for Baltar as well, especially with head 6 running around. Then again with Baltar it could just be a good ability to day dream.

But I will be honest. I feel bad seeing Galactica starting to fall apart. That ship has been through hell and back and it is finally falling apart. Probably makes Apollo wish he didn't wreck the Pegasus.

And best line out of the show is from Tigh.

(Kara playing the BSG version of Watch Tower)

Tigh- "What the Frak????" I laughed my ass off.

HAL2100
February 27th, 2009, 09:03 PM
I am gonna say it because everyone else doesnt seem to have the stones to.
Ronald moore must be a pansy, or a flake. he is definitely unstable. I brought it up before that they kept harping the cylon "plan" and did nothing with it, then they conveniently axed it from the opening. ...This whole entire show has been written completely and totaly on the fly, so while it does leave us open to surprise shockers, like boomer sluggin athena, and frakin helo , it is merely shock value and not some grand scheme that he and David Eick had planned from the beginning.

My argument exactly in mapping out the general story and plot developments for the series prior to starting. I was all excited about '...the plan...' and we oh just sort of forgot about it.

STC
February 27th, 2009, 09:14 PM
[QUOTE]I am also going to postulate something as well.

This episode proved that only Cylons can "project" with each other.






wouldn't that mean Baltar is a Cylon too?

chris777
February 27th, 2009, 10:02 PM
And best line out of the show is from Tigh.

(Kara playing the BSG version of Watch Tower)

Tigh- "What the Frak????" I laughed my ass off.
[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE]

Tigh is the ultimate hardass I just wish they would have let him keep his boss captain ahab getup from new caprica, with the cap and beard, talk about gruff.

I hope when I get that age my beard looks that cool.

TheChosen1
February 27th, 2009, 10:07 PM
Did anyone else catch the beginning of the original BSG theme music? May be my imagination but when he was messing around trying to think of the second act of his composition it sounded just like that piece of music...

If anyone recalls.. it's when the voice over appears in the original music of the series.

Haha... seems someone else noticed as well :)


Here it is, go to this link and then to Track 2: Exploration.

http://www.moviegrooves.com/shop/battlestargalacticaost.htm

This is what the head piano man was playing as kara said your ripping off another artist. Paying homage to Bsg, this theme was one of the major themes of music in TOS.

TheChosen1

bfldworker
February 27th, 2009, 10:07 PM
wouldn't that mean Baltar is a Cylon too?

Possibly. But you must remember. Baltar hasn't shared any dreams, visions or whatever with anyone else. Unlike Roslin, Caprica and Athena.

I do agree with Ellen. Someone or something is manipulating everything. And it is driving me wacky trying to figure out who or what it is....

bfldworker
February 27th, 2009, 10:18 PM
Tigh is the ultimate hard ass I just wish they would have let him keep his boss captain Ahab getup from new caprica, with the cap and beard, talk about gruff.

I hope when I get that age my beard looks that cool.

Yeah he is a hard ass. But as he said in the first season episode 33.

"If the crew doesn't hate the XO, then he's not doing his job."

Which I find to be true about most XOs. When I was in the Coast Guard, I was on the USCGC Vigorous to help with a electronics upgrade. The XO at the time who I came to call Commander hardass (Behind closed doors mind you). Made Saul Tigh look like a Angel. This SOB was up everyones ass while the upgrades were going on, and honestly it was his job to make sure everything was being done properly. But one thing that has always annoyed me is 20 questions about every damned thing that was being done. One of the people also helping with the upgrades turned around and said "Sir, if you want to know what is going on then get your nosey ass down here and help us out, if you back off and go do what officers do best, take up space".

Needless to say there were snickers and he got a reprimand. But he did make Saul Tigh look like a angel.

Bruman
February 27th, 2009, 10:24 PM
It is very sad to see Galactica falling apart like that. The ship has accomplished so much, taken nukes, fallen through an atmosphere, etc.. Remember the battle sequences in the miniseries, or even 33.

In the RDM podcast last week, he mentioned that lots of the mutineers have been cleared out and are probably sitting on the prison ship. He mentioned Skulls and Racetrack specifically.

So sad, they get to Earth, it's a wasteland, and pretty much everything falls apart.

I felt bad for Tyrol too.

Man this is depressing... but it's well done depressing. I thought the pace was a bit slow for three weeks of relatively slow stuff, but it definitely got exciting toward the last 15 minutes.

wontgetfooledagain
February 27th, 2009, 10:25 PM
I am gonna say it because everyone else doesnt seem to have the stones to.
Ronald moore must be a pansy, or a flake. he is definitely unstable. I brought it up before that they kept harping the cylon "plan" and did nothing with it, then they conveniently axed it from the opening. Then he tells us that they have decided to close it out after only 4 seasons, because they felt like it was time and they wanted to end it on their own terns. Please give me a break that is a crock. This whole entire show has been written completely and totaly on the fly, so while it does leave us open to surprise shockers, like boomer sluggin athena, and frakin helo , it is merely shock value and not some grand scheme that he and David Eick had planned from the beginning.
my question is why? Is he just bored with it, and wants to move on the the soap that will be caprica? They can act like they had this planned and it was winding down , but like most stuff its a ruse and they are being forced to cram story into the final episodes to "reveal" key plot points as Si fi has so heavily advertised. But things are feeling really forced. with several characters If not all of them. Its like watching someone who is unstable crack under the pressure, it can be entertainment to some, but ultimately its sad, and pathetic, but lets move on since in 3.5 episodes any discussion will be moot, but I do feel there is more going on than we have been told, maybe its the Glen Larsen project and the head honchos wanting to end this version before the movie, but this is too forced to be " planned", unless of course Ron Moore has one helluva case of ADD, and just has become bored with the project. I mean look at the simpsons. it could go on forever if enough effort is made for it to.
As far as the Cylon plan, hasn't it been pretty apparent that their plan fell apart? Perhaps that is a result of them winging it, but it still seems legitimate to me. And as for the show going on as long as The Simpsons? If you think BSG should go on for as long as The Simpsons, you don't get the show at all. The Simpsons can go on for as long as it has because it is a comedy show. BSG isn't. I am pretty sure that part of the reason that BSG is only going to be four seasons is because Sci-Fi isn't willing to support it past that. There has been a lot of talk that RDM didn't actually map the series out and that may true, but mapping out the series in generalities isn't the same as mapping it out in specifics, so it is quite possible that RDM mapped it out in general and updated his own plan as he went and that he also didn't expect to only have four seasons. I really shouldn't talk about this, though, because I'm really not that informed. I thought I heard at one point that RDM had an idea of where he wanted to go and then I have heard that he didn't.

I am also going to postulate something as well.

This episode proved that only Cylons can "project" with each other.

In many of episodes Roslin, Athena and Caprica 6 have the same dream about the opera house. Could that mean that Roslin is also a Cylon? Perhaps from Earth 2000 years ago? The same question stands for Baltar as well, especially with head 6 running around. Then again with Baltar it could just be a good ability to day dream.
People have speculated that Roslin got visions because of the blood transfusions between her and Hera -- in Baltar's case, it could be because of some kind of fusion of some sort that occurred when Caprica shielded him from the shockwave of the nuke in the miniseries.

medegnosj
February 27th, 2009, 10:28 PM
OK, final thought before I dash out the door...

Take the episode as a big picture type thing. If we hadn't had the admittedly long bit with Kara and The Musician forming their relationship and having her open up about one significant song, her playing All Along the Watchtower would've lose some of it's punch. It was buildup, but it was needed. Ditto on the Boomer projection scenes. I know I wasn't the only one who initially bought it.

Development takes time. Stop watching the calendar and start watching the stories.
Here, Here. Sometimes, a slow heat makes a for a more flavorful roast...

[I know, I know. I'll stop channeling Oma Desala.]

chris777
February 27th, 2009, 10:45 PM
My argument exactly in mapping out the general story and plot developments for the series prior to starting. I was all excited about '...the plan...' and we oh just sort of forgot about it.

Just wasted potential but I guess If I ever start writing its just that much more material I have to tread new ground on, because they decided to follow the beaten path.

chris777
February 27th, 2009, 10:50 PM
Here it is, go to this link and then to Track 2: Exploration.

http://www.moviegrooves.com/shop/battlestargalacticaost.htm

This is what the head piano man was playing as kara said your ripping off another artist. Paying homage to Bsg, this theme was one of the major themes of music in TOS.

TheChosen1

I am going to ruin it for everyone and say it reminded me of the theme from gremlins until they broke into their version of watchtower.

ScifigirlSG
February 27th, 2009, 10:59 PM
Here it is, go to this link and then to Track 2: Exploration.

http://www.moviegrooves.com/shop/battlestargalacticaost.htm

This is what the head piano man was playing as kara said your ripping off another artist. Paying homage to Bsg, this theme was one of the major themes of music in TOS.

TheChosen1

Yes, I thought that sounded familiar...

chris777
February 27th, 2009, 11:01 PM
People have speculated that Roslin got visions because of the blood transfusions between her and Hera -- in Baltar's case, it could be because of some kind of fusion of some sort that occurred when Caprica shielded him from the shockwave of the nuke in the miniseries.

Ill touch on the other part later, but I noticed something. when Hera left Roslyn collapsed, kind of like when Tighs will to be with caprica left Liam died.

There is possibly some sort of connection, but its speculation.

Oh another FYI the crate hera was stuffed in like a puppet had the letters
JKA on the side from the starbuck montage. Any ideas on that one?

Cloud
February 27th, 2009, 11:04 PM
I agree with everything Chris777 has said. RDM never had an overall plan, and he has admitted to having to go through everyone's backstory to figure out who the final five would be. Besides, don't you think it's hokey that the final five just happen to be in the last surviving fleet? And that Anders just happens to be alive back on Caprica so Star Buck could go and pick him up?

This show is like watching someone tell a lie and then trying to talk their way out of it, and it's working! I think that some of it has been luck.

And I'm going to say it because no one else thinks it:

Kara Thrace is not a Cylon, or even a Hybrid

What do I base this on? I just don't want her to be one, that's all. But I just have this feeling that she's not a cylon or a hybrid. There is no resurrection ship for her to have appeared on. And how do you explain that her viper had pictures of the solar system on it?

I'm going with this theory:
In the mini-series Six shielded Baltar from the nuke and planted some type of chip in his head or fused with him somehow, they actually explained it in the series a long time ago. This fusion is so advanced that Colonial technology can't detect it. Daniel escaped Cavil's wrath and ran away to Caprica and met Kara's Mom when Kara was very young (or perhaps just before Kara was born which makes some other sod Kara's real father). Daniel taught Kara the piano piece and then left after a while because one day he was walking around Caprica and saw a Six before it saw him and he thought that the cylons were on to him, so he split -- except he didn't split because there is no where for him to run -- so he popped himself into Kara's head just like Six did to Baltar. Six can go long periods of time without appearing to Baltar. Daniel chose to go for most of Kara's life and has only recently decided to re-appear in her head because she had lost her focus and purpose in life. He appeared in her head to give her a purpose. It's no accident that Kara plays Jimi Hendrix while Ellen and Tigh are in the bar.

In the episode Maelstrom Leoben appeared in Kara's head. I now propose (as some already have) that this was in fact Daniel. Daniel knows how to use the Swirl -- that's what Ellen called it a few episodes ago and I assume that the swirl and the gas giant in Maelstrom is the same thing (just as others have assumed). Daniel knows how to use the swirl and guided Kara safely through it. Now all I have to do is explain the dead Kara & viper on Earth.

Good night.

bfldworker
February 27th, 2009, 11:22 PM
Ok I have one more question. I didn't look to see if this was asked (So I am sorry ahead of time).

WTF is up with Sams brainwave patters? Seriously. What is going on in his head, literally...

chris777
February 27th, 2009, 11:41 PM
[QUOTE=wontgetfooledagain;9823581]As far as the Cylon plan, hasn't it been pretty apparent that their plan fell apart? Perhaps that is a result of them winging it, but it still seems legitimate to me.
Idont buy it, unless you mean the writers original plan then yes. They held that opening till like season 4 then woopse lets change it, since we are never gonna adress it until the pre/seqel movie "the plan" since we are not going to be able to adress it in the series.


And as for the show going on as long as The Simpsons? If you think BSG should go on for as long as The Simpsons, you don't get the show at all. I was just saying that if one wishes to put the effort into it something can be sustained for quite some time. Instead we are left with a mish mash, Jump cut if you will of a show with , outlandish character motivations and left field character choices. Take athena at new caprica , gaining Adamas trust from a prison Cell. The newest webisodes with the reveal of Gaitas secret 8, which just come off as more plot devices than anything. Like Daniel as the 13th cylon, Which might actually play out If say He is starbucks father, and on the final/first 5's ship with ressurection tech thats unaccounted for. He taught the song to Kara as a kid, then the rests and Hera hear it. I would have to dig up some of the Hybrid Prophecies though might make more sense. Plus the album title


The Simpsons can go on for as long as it has because it is a comedy show. BSG isn't. I like you am not that informed on it, I listend to a couple of Rons podcast, and he pretty much confirms my suspicion its almost all on the fly with a vague direction at best, like Kate vernon as the final cylon not being decided till the end, and the Goof with 8 and the final 5, screwing the numbering. I am not against this sort of thing, Its like a painting , or drawing taking on a life of its own, but The hype has been decidedly different.

I am pretty sure that part of the reason that BSG is only going to be four seasons is because Sci-Fi isn't willing to support it past that. There has been a lot of talk that RDM didn't actually map the series out and that may true, but mapping out the series in generalities isn't the same as mapping it out in specifics, so it is quite possible that RDM mapped it out in general and updated his own plan as he went and that he also didn't expect to only have four seasons. I really shouldn't talk about this, though, because I'm really not that informed. I thought I heard at one point that RDM had an idea of where he wanted to go and then I have heard that he didn't. Oh definitely thats a huge possibility, But He just come off as sort of snooty in many of his interviews like he had this plan all along like the Cylon plan, and he has orchestrated it. Plus he has gone back on many of the conventions he himself claims to hate about the Genre.
I am just saying as Good as the show is, its Hugely based on the actors. And the writers have had some rather lackluster episodes, quite often.
I mean Come on, Callie having Hot Dogs baby? Ellen , and Starbuck fracking every male on the show. It could almost be suggested that they Got something against women(which come to think of it, I have run into that exact situation myself, but I digress.)
It just flip flops too much to be believable. The actors salvage it, for the most part(sorry Tahmoh but you are just slightly better at acting than Michael Phelps)
Where as James Callis, Michael Hogan, Edward Olmos, Tricia Helfer, Aaron Douglas, and
Katie sakoff, make the show on performances alone. Plotlines, and ridiculous character motivations be damned.

I am saying there is a huge , huge mine of stories and plotlines that they just threw out with the bathwater. Remember when they kept doing the Cylon hybrid baby teasers between the early seasons, that they just left hanging until the last 3 episodes of the series? And now they are Going to Give us Caprica? WT Frack?

Though this recent rumbling about the Glen larsen Big screen movie might be the reason, and liek I suggested, Ron moore might have a ridiculous case of ADD, or just Loves soap operas, with wild and insand couplings, and constant turmoil, I am saying as a viewer, on the outside of "the know" it looks like they wrote the whole series on a whim.

Browncoat1984
February 27th, 2009, 11:44 PM
So here's my ten cents on the episode and some of the comments I've read here.

First of all, a brilliant episode. One highlight for me was the music, I thought the piano playing (and nod to TOS) was well written.

Chief and Boomer - you have to feel sorry for chief. It seems that all he really wants is someone to love him/to love and he seems to keep on falling flat. Boomer betrayed his love. Twice. Cally betrayed his love as well by having an affair and not telling him about it. I wonder what'll happen to him when they find out that he was responsible for freeing Boomer? I can see them all just saying "you know what, frak this, you were manipulated. We all are being manipulated."

Starbuck - still not quite sure about this one. I'm pretty sure that the piano player was her father, since she was having a daddy complex with him. Not sure if she's a Cylon or not...

Roslin - I'm on the fence on this one as well. If Galactica is the dying leader, then why still have Roslin die? Maybe they somehow managae to cure her (again) or something else happens...

Galactica falling apart - when it became clear that the ship was possibly the prophesized "dying leader" or something similar, I said to myself "okay, they have to make this convincing and emotional in order for it to pay off well." And they have so far. Watching Boomer jump away and the sequence of the damage being done to the ship...I felt like my heart was being torn out. At first I was like "its just a ship. Watching it be destroyed wouldn't have the same affect as if it were Moya or Serenity..." but I think after this episode I realized that Galactica really WAS as much of a part of the show as the characters.

Regarding the whole scope of the story - having seen every episode so far I can say that I would sort of preferred it if they had sat down and mapped this whole thing out from the beginning. I sometimes compare BSG to Babylon 5, another great sci-fi epic. The difference between the two is that Ronald Moore didn't have a real "plan" for BSG, but Joe did. When you watch the two shows side by side, it shows. B5 just has this awesome flow to it (until you get to season five, but that's not Joe's fault) that feels like everything sort of fit together from the beginning to the end. BSG, however, does not quite have that flow, at least not yet. Not to say that the storytelling has been brilliant, and some of the best sf TV I've watched in years, but at the same time it also feels like "yeah, they so totally just pulled that out of their ass."

One thing I've been hoping for since season 2 is with the "all of this has happened before and all of this has happened again" is that by the end of the series they would connect BSG to the original series somehow, especially with all the nods to TOS that they've been putting into the show. Maybe they still will...Galactica falls apart by the final episode, but they discover Galactica from TOS from the original series, abandoned, and its a real "wtf is all this?" moment.

Was also disappointed with the fact that the Cylon Plan fell apart and we never really got a sense that anything was going on there in the end.

Loredana
February 27th, 2009, 11:50 PM
Daniel knows how to use the Swirl -- that's what Ellen called it a few episodes ago and I assume that the swirl and the gas giant in Maelstrom is the same thing (just as others have assumed). Daniel knows how to use the swirl and guided Kara safely through it. Now all I have to do is explain the dead Kara & viper on Earth.


:lol:
Go back to the times they lived on New Caprica and learn what is "swirl"... Daniel cannot use the swirl... he is not female... ha ha

Sorry.. but your idea is funny :D

chris777
February 27th, 2009, 11:54 PM
I agree with everything Chris777 has said. RDM never had an overall plan, and he has admitted to having to go through everyone's backstory to figure out who the final five would be. Besides, don't you think it's hokey that the final five just happen to be in the last surviving fleet? And that Anders just happens to be alive back on Caprica so Star Buck could go and pick him up?

This show is like watching someone tell a lie and then trying to talk their way out of it, and it's working! I think that some of it has been luck.

And I'm going to say it because no one else thinks it:

Kara Thrace is not a Cylon, or even a Hybrid

What do I base this on? I just don't want her to be one, that's all.
I am going to go out on a Limb and agree with Cloud on this on, because Hey hes Got my back, and Well if Ron moore can pull golden "eggs" out of his "back end" then why can't we?


But I just have this feeling that she's not a cylon or a hybrid. There is no resurrection ship for her to have appeared on. And how do you explain that her viper had pictures of the solar system on it?

I'm going with this theory:
In the mini-series Six shielded Baltar from the nuke and planted some type of chip in his head or fused with him somehow, they actually explained it in the series a long time ago. This fusion is so advanced that Colonial technology can't detect it. Daniel escaped Cavil's wrath and ran away to Caprica and met Kara's Mom when Kara was very young (or perhaps just before Kara was born which makes some other sod Kara's real father). Daniel taught Kara the piano piece and then left after a while because one day he was walking around Caprica and saw a Six before it saw him and he thought that the cylons were on to him, so he split -- except he didn't split because there is no where for him to run -- so he popped himself into Kara's head just like Six did to Baltar. Six can go long periods of time without appearing to Baltar. Daniel chose to go for most of Kara's life and has only recently decided to re-appear in her head because she had lost her focus and purpose in life. He appeared in her head to give her a purpose. It's no accident that Kara plays Jimi Hendrix while Ellen and Tigh are in the bar.
Woah I forgot about that, they can hard wire too, and we are clueless about how they pull it off. So its totally feasible


In the episode Maelstrom Leoben appeared in Kara's head. I now propose (as some already have) that this was in fact Daniel.
Not so sure, here, though I put fourth that we as in humanity are all cylons , and can all do it, look at even Adama with his wife, and other characters pulling this feat off (I think my memory is hazy on others)


Daniel knows how to use the Swirl -- that's what Ellen called it a few episodes ago and I assume that the swirl and the gas giant in Maelstrom is the same thing (just as others have assumed). Daniel knows how to use the swirl and guided Kara safely through it.
Unless err, umm, its something best not gotten into in this forum, as hinted at in the new caprica eps.



Now all I have to do is explain the dead Kara & viper on Earth.

Maybe the cylons are projecting her, and if everyone is a cylon.

Ulkesh47
February 28th, 2009, 12:16 AM
Did anyone else catch the beginning of the original BSG theme music? May be my imagination but when he was messing around trying to think of the second act of his composition it sounded just like that piece of music...

If anyone recalls.. it's when the voice over appears in the original music of the series.

Haha... seems someone else noticed as well :)

My favorite part of this episode...

Agent_Dark
February 28th, 2009, 12:20 AM
if Starbuck learnt that tune as a kid, does that mean her father is Bob Dylan? :O

wontgetfooledagain
February 28th, 2009, 12:42 AM
Idont buy it, unless you mean the writers original plan then yes. They held that opening till like season 4 then woopse lets change it, since we are never gonna adress it until the pre/seqel movie "the plan" since we are not going to be able to adress it in the series.
I don't know, I really don't mind that we aren't going to get a more clear idea of the Cylon plan. Is it really need to know information? I don't think it is, because the story has obviously gone elsewhere. It would have been better had it been properly mapped out, sure, but I think it probably could have turned out much worse.

I was just saying that if one wishes to put the effort into it something can be sustained for quite some time. Instead we are left with a mish mash, Jump cut if you will of a show with , outlandish character motivations and left field character choices. Take athena at new caprica , gaining Adamas trust from a prison Cell. The newest webisodes with the reveal of Gaitas secret 8, which just come off as more plot devices than anything. Like Daniel as the 13th cylon, Which might actually play out If say He is starbucks father, and on the final/first 5's ship with ressurection tech thats unaccounted for. He taught the song to Kara as a kid, then the rests and Hera hear it. I would have to dig up some of the Hybrid Prophecies though might make more sense. Plus the album title
You make some good points, but still, I disagree when it comes to making a series last a long time. There have been some very notable shows such as Firefly and Freaks and Geeks that never got past their first season for one reason or another.

Oh definitely thats a huge possibility, But He just come off as sort of snooty in many of his interviews like he had this plan all along like the Cylon plan, and he has orchestrated it. Plus he has gone back on many of the conventions he himself claims to hate about the Genre.
I am just saying as Good as the show is, its Hugely based on the actors. And the writers have had some rather lackluster episodes, quite often.
I mean Come on, Callie having Hot Dogs baby? Ellen , and Starbuck fracking every male on the show. It could almost be suggested that they Got something against women(which come to think of it, I have run into that exact situation myself, but I digress.)
It just flip flops too much to be believable. The actors salvage it, for the most part(sorry Tahmoh but you are just slightly better at acting than Michael Phelps)
Where as James Callis, Michael Hogan, Edward Olmos, Tricia Helfer, Aaron Douglas, and
Katie sakoff, make the show on performances alone. Plotlines, and ridiculous character motivations be damned.
Good point about the acting (it does seem to have some phenomenal acting, for a television show anyway), though I find Sackhoff's acting over the top a lot of the time. I haven't really noticed Helo that much, it's been so long since I have watched the first season or whenever he was a more prominent character (I don't have the DVD's and the series has had a tendency to drag on way too long because of the long breaks they have been having between seasons), though as far as the writing for his character goes, why wouldn't he be able to tell Boomer from Athena?!

I am saying there is a huge , huge mine of stories and plotlines that they just threw out with the bathwater. Remember when they kept doing the Cylon hybrid baby teasers between the early seasons, that they just left hanging until the last 3 episodes of the series? And now they are Going to Give us Caprica? WT Frack?
Good point with Caprica. If it wasn't for the fact that I had some idea in my head that RDM had some idea in his head of where BSG is/was going to go, then I may not have watched it. Something like BSG could get to be a pain in the ass if you didn't know that it was going to have a beginning, middle, and end of some kind, like reading a thousand page book, even if it is a really good book -- eventually, you just want it to end.

Though this recent rumbling about the Glen larsen Big screen movie might be the reason, and liek I suggested, Ron moore might have a ridiculous case of ADD, or just Loves soap operas, with wild and insand couplings, and constant turmoil, I am saying as a viewer, on the outside of "the know" it looks like they wrote the whole series on a whim.
Yeah, you know, it seems like the big difference between something like a drawing or a novel or something like that and a TV show, is that people other than the maker don't experience it while it "takes on a life of its own." This is part of why I prefer novels and movies and such to TV shows -- they have a distinct beginning, middle, and end, so you know it is going somewhere and if it gets slow for a bit, you can hope that it is going to pick up soon or at least it will be over soon. Sometimes even the best movies and novels have bits that drag for a while, but then they are considered the best because there is a redeeming factor to it -- some of the best novels and movies are probably things we wouldn't partake in if we thought they would never end. But, also, television programs often have pressure put on them to make money and while this same pressure is there for novels and movies as well, the pressure isn't the same, at least for the more "artsy" ones, because they can get away with it.

g.o.d
February 28th, 2009, 01:12 AM
wonderful episode. I loved it

mr_kennedy
February 28th, 2009, 01:20 AM
awesome episode

kinda slow, but i think it sets the mood, its becoming more and more likely that galactica is the dying leader, leading them to the promised land, roslin just happened to have cancer at the time of her rise to presidency

the question is, if earth isnt the promised land, what is?

poor chief, boomer really is a *****, should have fed her to the rebels :P, however i did enjoy boomer/chief stuff at the start tho even tho it was just manipulation on boomers part

as for piano man, i think its daniel/starbucks dad, or a projection of her dad but she is so stressed that she didnt recognise it at the time, one thing im sure of is that daniel is her dad, weather it was actually him on galactica or head daniel, i guess we'll have to find out

MattSilver 3k
February 28th, 2009, 01:27 AM
wonderful episode. I loved it

Agreed. I'm trying not to overthink it all, but I guess the following:
Kara is not a Cylon/hybrid, her father isn't Daniel or a Cylon, or anything like that. I mean, is that what most people think is the answer for everything?

"OMG! Rommo Lampbkin seen his deaded cat! He must be pro-jecting it, and is also a Cylon human. And the Others that live on the island wear real clothes and live in a 1980's village."

And, seriously, there isn't that much plot stuff to cover in the next four hours that's totally important. The main issue left is the Opera House mystery (That might not even be Cylon related!), Kara's destiny thingo (That also might not be Cylon related!), what the hell the fleet is going to end up as (Space dust... or a new colony?) and Cavil's little revenge plot. I may have missed some important things, but that's all I really can think of now.

And I have a feeling the rest of the Cylon based mythos will be solved in 'The Plan'. We may see the colony mentioned in "No Exit", and maybe glimpses of that plan those old seasons were gabbing on about.

About the episode, I loved it from start to finish. Great music, great acting, fantastic Chief/Boomer scenes, and the Final Four Theme returns! For the freaking win.

Chricton
February 28th, 2009, 01:35 AM
First thing I did after the episode ended was pull out my keyboard and tab out the song. I had done it on my guitar back in season three but the piano version was terrific as well. It's really a simple tune to hammer out, but it's catchy as hell by itself and especially when you throw in your own variations and such.

All I could really gather is dadmaybedaniel or dead-Kara is who awoke the five. From where is what I think the show will revolve around as far as the finale goes.

And it's interesting to think that Bear McCreary auditioned for that role.

Wayston
February 28th, 2009, 02:13 AM
this episode was superdissapointing... only so few episodes to go and they make such a slow goer as this??? :(

Loredana
February 28th, 2009, 02:39 AM
I believe Daniel is Kara's father... they say it clear enough, he knew the song, she learned it from him/ or had it in her all the time and just repeated it with him... only a cylon knows that song - so unless producers want to fool us, though it would be quite stupid to do this with only a few episodes left - the logical idea is that Kara is the first hybrid and that her dad left them and never returned because he was boxed by Cavil.

Some of you don't want to believe this, some of you didn't wanted Ellen to be Cylon, but she is... funny how they manage to show us real things and still make us doubt because it would seem too easy to be truth.

Hera is Hybrid, Hera knows the song... Kara might be just like her - Hera wanted Kara to have the notes... she might of felt or even knew something about her.

HAL2100
February 28th, 2009, 05:02 AM
While I do agree this episode was slow. I think it needed to be slow to reveal a lot.

But, first.

[SIZE=6][FONT=Times New Roman]KARA IS SO A CYLON!
[SIZE=3]
The only thing that makes sense is simple. She was on "Earth" 2000 years ago and when the bombs fell. She must have downloaded to this ship in orbit that Ellen referred to in "Sometimes a great notion". When she died in Maelstrom she must have either hitched a ride to the resurrection hub or ship and came back.

But then how do you explain the Final Five not commenting on that? Did the FF decide to keep her existance as a Earth-Cylon a secret?

HAL2100
February 28th, 2009, 05:07 AM
Yes someone is manipulating things behind the scenes - Daniel and Marty...Kralizec is near...only Norma can save us. (Wait - wrong universe...)

g.o.d
February 28th, 2009, 05:09 AM
Yes someone is manipulating things behind the scenes - Daniel and Marty...Kralizec is near...only Norma can save us. (Wait - wrong universe...)

:D great. Looks like I'm not alone on this

SG1Commander
February 28th, 2009, 07:02 AM
kara is tormented by dreams, who is she? if she's on the planet, then who is she
she drinks in the bar, there's a piano man that annoys her, they start talking, he's trying to compose a song. she remembers about how her dad did that

adama and roslyn want to kill boomer, the six that was just elected to the senate asks for boomer to be killed for treason (siding with cavil), roslyn and adama are happy to agree

chief doesn't want her to die. he visits her, she shows him memories of their life from before and that they had a daughter

chief manipulates getting boomer out of the brig by swapping her with one of the other eights

boomer attacks athena, locks her up. then hubby comes in, so boomer fraks him while athena sees through a crack in the closet door. boomer then goes to daycare and picks up hera.

prior to this, hera had visited hera's daddy and hera gave her a drawing of a bunch of circles in a line. when kara is with pianoman (who my money is on being Daniel) they connect the dots, almost literally, and the dots that hera drew are music notes...the same song that all the cylons heard that drew them to their first meeting place

kara starts to play and it's revealed that piano man is Head Piano Man. the other cylons are in the bar, tigh asks how she knew that song, 'my dad used to play that to me' and he taught it to her. we have opera house type lighting

athena stumbles out and tells them what happened. boomer tries to leave galactica with hera. they try to stop her. they retract the drive pods (tres cool) but she gets out anyway. she spools up the ftl drive and jumps while she's in close proximity to galactica, and the shock wave tears a hole in the ship

as hera jumps away (locked in a box) roslyn collapses.

we end with roslyn on the floor, kara still clinging to anders, the ship falling apart

and promos for next week

suggest someoen falling, structural integrity continuing to fail, tigh not wanting to give up the ship, adama saying he needs to let it go, adama collapsing - possibly in grief

The scenes in the house weren't of their life before. If you listen closely, Boomer said that the house was the one they WERE going to build on Picon after they mustered out. But since the Attack on the Colonies happened, it was never built. Boomer said that since they never built it, she built it in her head.

trakal
February 28th, 2009, 07:28 AM
A good episode if a little slow, man I am so impatient to watch the final 3 episodes.

One thing I don't get is how Hera was able to tell the difference between Boomer and Athena in Rapture but wasn't able to tell it was Boomer who picked her up from daycare. At the very least she should have been able to tell it wasn't Athena.


Boomer fraking Helo & making Athena watch! WOW! Helo not recognizing his wife - SAD. She even smelled different! Sometimes Helo can be too trusting & stupid.


While I do agree with you able Helo been a bit too trusting, you do have to cut him some slack. At the time he didn't know that Boomber had escaped and with the exception of the 8 who was with him while rescuing Diana off the Hub, none of the 8's have ever acted like Athena towards him. Plus Athena is generally the only 8 who wears the Colonial Viper uniform.

g.o.d
February 28th, 2009, 07:31 AM
the most amazing and also very powerful scene was, when Kara was playing "All along the watchtower" with her father.

ohnd
February 28th, 2009, 07:38 AM
i swear!! i hope they put a piano tune onto the sountrack along with all along the watch tower piano tune!!! that was so good!!

lordolorin
February 28th, 2009, 07:46 AM
Slow, slow start but last ten minutes... nice.
My hart was pounding like crazy when kara started to play 'All along the watchtower'.

Anyway.... I still don't think she is a cylon, nor her father. I stand by my original thinking that she has some relation to Lords of Kobol (or maybe her father does, in that case he's puling the strings).
If she was a cylon, a daniel, then I would be disappointed because it would be pretty much predictable and lame.... I hope she's something much more.

Also, president isn't dead :)

Briangate78
February 28th, 2009, 07:56 AM
the most amazing and also very powerful scene was, when Kara was playing "All along the watchtower" with her father.

This episode was a total turn around from last weeks. It started slow but then it built up to an amazing 10 final mins. The pieces about Starbuck are starting to come together.

Back40
February 28th, 2009, 08:00 AM
One thing I don't get is how Hera was able to tell the difference between Boomer and Athena in Rapture but wasn't able to tell it was Boomer who picked her up from daycare. At the very least she should have been able to tell it wasn't Athena.

That's an assumption. I think she did know and went along voluntarily. She too has a destiny...

g.o.d
February 28th, 2009, 08:03 AM
This episode was a total turn around from last weeks. It started slow but then it built up to an amazing 10 final mins. The pieces about Starbuck are starting to come together.

yes, the last week episode was boring. I'm excpecting more from the remaining episodes

millertime27
February 28th, 2009, 09:33 AM
Most of the episodes in 4.5 have been SO BORING! I understand they need to tell us the story, but the fact is they aren't doing that. They're taking an hour to give us a small tidbit of information that just LEADS TO MORE QUESTIONS.......Each week's preview has the line "You will know the truth...." but we never get the truth.......

We still dont know:
1.Who Kara is.......They've ignored this question up until this episode......which didnt tell us anything
2. What Balter and Caprica have to do with Hera.......BALTER WASNT EVEN IN THIS EPISODE

and of plether of other questions that remain unanswered. Sorry to rant, but each week the list grows.....lol:o

Bruman
February 28th, 2009, 09:49 AM
A good episode if a little slow, man I am so impatient to watch the final 3 episodes.

One thing I don't get is how Hera was able to tell the difference between Boomer and Athena in Rapture but wasn't able to tell it was Boomer who picked her up from daycare. At the very least she should have been able to tell it wasn't Athena.


I was wondering this too. It doesn't seem consistent. I think the two possibilities are:

1) she didn't really recognize Athena the first time, but we attributed her changed behavior to it (less likely, because SS Cylons seem to be able to recognize each other, even if humans - and FF, or at least FF if they aren't paying very close attention - can't)

2) Most Cylons really respect her and defer to her. So maybe she just assumed that any model 8 that came by for her was friendly. That would fit a child's behavior and her experience too.



While I do agree with you able Helo been a bit too trusting, you do have to cut him some slack. At the time he didn't know that Boomber had escaped and with the exception of the 8 who was with him while rescuing Diana off the Hub, none of the 8's have ever acted like Athena towards him. Plus Athena is generally the only 8 who wears the Colonial Viper uniform.


Tyrol could tell it was boomer, but he is a FF Cylon. This suggests that FF are able to tell Cylons apart, at least if they pay close attention - or perhaps if they have been in a close relationship for a while. But Helo is human, and humans definitely have trouble detecting Cylons apart without more interaction. He also had no reason to think that this was not Athena. He did suspect something was a little off when he said "what's wrong," etc..

--

On a separate note, I find myself wondering about when Boomer asked Tyrol to come with her. What was the motivation? I can think of a few:

1) Maybe she really did love him, but knew the others would try to kill her, so she had to escape and hoped Tyrol would come with her.

2) Maybe part of the plan was to get Hera and some FF cylons to use as hostages/leverage with Cavil.

3) Maybe she knew what she was up to, and just wanted to give Tyrol a chance to avoid the Treason charges he'd be subject to when it's revealed that he sprang Boomer from her cell. BOTH Cylons and Humans are going to want to get him for that - though I guess Cylons won't want to execute a FF.

anotherquestion
February 28th, 2009, 09:54 AM
Terrific cutting in the sequence with the piano, the overhead shot was especially effective, along with Saul Tigh's reaction shot. Just a great sequence that really paid off the long build up.

Part of the widespread response of disappointment to the slow pace of this episode, in my opinion, is because of the way Starbuck's story unfolded. The first few scenes appeared to be designed to show Kara's monotonous routine at the daily briefings and her sense of hopelessness after discovering her own body on Earth. This increased the sense of tedium although the scenes themselves were brief enough. Can't praise the direction and editing enough really for this particular episode.

I liked the nod to TOS with the Feldercarb toothpaste brand name.

Not eager to brush my teeth with Feldercarb, nevertheless.

This is the second killing done by the Chief that will likely go unpunished (the first being Fisk on Pegasus) both done to protect an Eight model.

I don't really buy the proposition that Boomer is ultimately responsible for the Cylon internecine conflict, that was Cavil's decision. If you are a Cylon and want to hang Boomer for killing other Cylons, blame her for the nuked Basestar orbiting Kobol.

I take Boomer at her word with her goodbye speech to Tyrol. Her feelings were real and she isn't simply a tool for Cavil. Her change of heart on Caprica was too abrupt after her death in Tyrol's arms, in my opinion. No reason for her to restate her feelings for Galen if she was only after Hera, and there was certainly no reason to ask Tyrol to accompany her.

Tyrol must be feeling really bad about now, but Helo is the one who owes himself a big kick in the pants.

Glad to see the projection ability of the Cylons revisited. Too important a feature to bring up once and then drop. I don't understand, however, why no captive Cylon in the Brig has yet used this ability to facilitate an escape. When a guard opens a door, why not just project the cell to be empty, for example ?

Hera certainly had the ability to distinguish Boomer from Athena. Likely she wasn't resisting the abduction.

Bruman
February 28th, 2009, 09:55 AM
As for RDM mapping things out. It's pretty clear from the podcasts he makes that a LOT of the series is made up as we go along, and - to the extent that there was an original overarching plan - the plan can be modified as one goes forward. He does a lot of stuff - like making Caprica pregnant and so forth - that he states he doesn't know where it will lead, but it just sounds kinda interesting.

On the other hand, it's also fairly clear that they do make a concerted effort in trying to make their new twists and turns consistent and fit into the backstories as already told and at whatever time they make these decisions, there is still some kind of overall vision. I think after four seasons, it can be tricky to do this consistently, and I give him good marks for trying.

RDM also states at some point that he doesn't want BSG to go on forever like Star Trek TNG or Voyager and lose its freshness or originality. There are few things worse than a once-great show that has used up its ideas and become more or less flavorless. He expressly didn't want this to happen to BSG, so he knew it would end eventually. How long it would go on was to-be-determined, and probably a balance of how many ideas were left at the well and how willing the network would be to fund it.

Espeon1962
February 28th, 2009, 10:08 AM
I am of many minds on this episode. I think I will watch again to shore up some of my first impressions.

I have to say I do believe that this episode and the last one could have been combined. Goes back to the theme that the producers "hopefully" saved their budget for a bigggg finale. All those shots of Adama reviewing the repairs are just so much wasted space.

Looks like Galactica is going to bite the dust shortly given all the recent punishment, but one has to hope she goes out with a bang, rather then a wimper.

My take on Boomer inviting Galen is that she played him, but they did love each other once, and perhaps her invitation was a residual of that love - in any case, I think Galen may be the first of the final five to die - and I am not certain who will do the killing, the rebel cylons or the humans.

Don't believe the President is dead.

More to follow later.

Corona
February 28th, 2009, 10:23 AM
What I don't get is when Kara is talking to Head Billy Joel at the piano from the bar seat, why doesn't anyone think she's whack?

Only when Kara played the music did Tigh and the others hear it. Head case!

So we have two possibilities for a Daniel rebirth, bypassing the damage Cavil caused to the genome. Will it be Anders or Hera who has the Daniel psyche which will lead to the final battle for Cavil, ultimately changing the cycle of 'happened before and will happen again'?

Oh Daniel, where are you?

rarocks24
February 28th, 2009, 11:23 AM
What I don't get is when Kara is talking to Head Billy Joel at the piano from the bar seat, why doesn't anyone think she's whack?

Lets see, how many people on this show have had head people talk to them? Seriously, half the fleet should be on thorazine.


Only when Kara played the music did Tigh and the others hear it. Head case!

Again, half the frakking fleet should be on meds. Should they judge her but not them?


So we have two possibilities for a Daniel rebirth, bypassing the damage Cavil caused to the genome. Will it be Anders or Hera who has the Daniel psyche which will lead to the final battle for Cavil, ultimately changing the cycle of 'happened before and will happen again'?

I strongly believe that at least one Daniel survived, or that, after his model was destroyed by Cavil, a portion of him exists in every other cylon. Including the five, after Cavil asphyxiated them to death and forced them to download.


Oh Daniel, where are you?

Daniel exists in all the cylons and cylon hybrids.

peragrin
February 28th, 2009, 01:20 PM
That's an assumption. I think she did know and went along voluntarily. She too has a destiny...

Everyone seems to be forgetting that Hera Drew the notes that kara would need and handed them to her.

I am still under the impression that those who built or at least modified the cylons added genetic memory, that is only accessed through the subconscious.

Maybe she knows what has happened before but no one is listening.

that is pretty normal for adults. to ignore reality for desire.

Platschu
February 28th, 2009, 02:07 PM
Wow. The "melody" returned. I loved that scene and I was sure the pianist was fictional. :p

Back to Hera. If Roslin is connected to her, because she got cell sample from her, than this could be a reason, why she felt down. Athena was Hera's mother, so she could be affected as well. I don't know yet what is the connection between Hera and Caprica Six, but if Six is under Hera's influence, than this can be a reason why Baltar could see the Operahouse as well. Maybe Baltar and Caprica will rescue her from Cavil. ;)

Roslin - Hera - Athena - Caprica (body) - Baltar - Caprica (soul)

Berg417448
February 28th, 2009, 02:11 PM
Everyone seems to be forgetting that Hera Drew the notes that kara would need and handed them to her.

I am still under the impression that those who built or at least modified the cylons added genetic memory, that is only accessed through the subconscious.

Maybe she knows what has happened before but no one is listening.

that is pretty normal for adults. to ignore reality for desire.

Adding onto the idea of Hera drawing the notes...what if the notes are a starmap? Starbuck asked Hera if she was drawing stars and she said yes. Then she gave her the paper with the dots. What if the music the 5 know, the music that Starbuck was taught as a child and the music that Hera knows are meant to show the way to the promised land?

garhkal
February 28th, 2009, 02:11 PM
i'm even more confused then when the ep started.

*sighs* it was slower moving then the last eps too. okay so Boomer knocked out Athena, frakked Helo and kidnapped Hera... did Chief play a part in getting boomer out of the cell in the first place?!

I think he did. Remember when he went off to where the other cyclons were working, he did something to the gas tank, and grabbed a big wrench. Then the lights went out and we heard a 'whak' sound. Then it goes to Tyrol in the brig area working on the lights, and "boomer" was in her cell with a big red mark on her forehead.


My money is still on Kara being the first true Cylon-Human Hybrid.

After hearing her dad played the piano and taught her the cyclon's "Opera house" sond, i though the same thing.


Poor Chief, I really felt for him there. Man and he feels like total chit now.

I would hate to be in his shoes when it comes to light he is the one who let her free to kidnap hera..


And....was that guy playing the piano really with her, or just in her mind...

I think he realy was there.


I didn't before, but now I think The Galactica is the dying leader. I think this episode cemented that theory.

Especially with next weeks previews showing Tigh and adama talking about her dying.


hey try to stop her. they retract the drive pods (tres cool)

I am actually wondering why they waited that long to retract them.


Boomer deserves to be strung up by her womanhood, having Athena watch all of that with her husband. Fraking boomer needs to "boom" herself.

Agreed. This is Twice now she has fraked over chief.


I'll bet he kills Boomer next time he see hers.

And it is long overdue.


In many of episodes Roslin, Athena and Caprica 6 have the same dream about the opera house. Could that mean that Roslin is also a Cylon? Perhaps from Earth 2000 years ago? The same question stands for Baltar as well, especially with head 6 running around. Then again with Baltar it could just be a good ability to day dream.

WEll, with head six in balter, maybe what they use to project has tied him into their network. As for teh president, maybe her transfusion did the same for her.


Possibly. But you must remember. Baltar hasn't shared any dreams, visions or whatever with anyone else. Unlike Roslin, Caprica and Athena.

Did he not do that when he was on the base star, with the cylons?


One thing I've been hoping for since season 2 is with the "all of this has happened before and all of this has happened again" is that by the end of the series they would connect BSG to the original series somehow, especially with all the nods to TOS that they've been putting into the show.

That would be SWEET... Especially if they some how tied the resurection ship they were talking about 2 eps ago some how to one of the old base stars.


One thing I don't get is how Hera was able to tell the difference between Boomer and Athena in Rapture but wasn't able to tell it was Boomer who picked her up from daycare. At the very least she should have been able to tell it wasn't Athena.

Not remembering if i saw rapture, i wondered if she would have the capacity to tell the 2 appart.


i swear!! i hope they put a piano tune onto the sountrack along with all along the watch tower piano tune!!! that was so good!!

If they do come out with that, i am definatly adding it to my collection.

[quote]What I don't get is when Kara is talking to Head Billy Joel at the piano from the bar seat, why doesn't anyone think she's whack?[/uote]

Its because of that i DONT think he was a projection.

jmoore032000
February 28th, 2009, 02:18 PM
What is the name of that song, and who is it sung by?

jmoore032000
February 28th, 2009, 02:22 PM
Found it

Bear McCreary - All Along The Watchtower

Chricton
February 28th, 2009, 02:51 PM
Found it

Bear McCreary - All Along The Watchtower

It's funny because technically speaking the song that played last night has no connection to "All Along The Watchtower" at all. You won't find that particlar "reveal" riff from Crossroads II or last nights anywhere in the original Dylan or Hendrix versions, so without lyrics it really is a completely different song.

We'll more than likely get 2 new versions in the next OST, or the 5th of lost tracks he'll release afterwards. The Anders version of AATW from the 4.5 premier and now this new piano Heeding the Call/AATW mixture.

Back40
February 28th, 2009, 03:02 PM
What is the name of that song, and who is it sung by?The song "All Along the Watchtower" was originally written and performed by Bob Dylan. Adapted for BSG by Bear McCreary, but lyrics sung by his brother Brendan (who also played lead guitar, I believe).

lordolorin
February 28th, 2009, 03:39 PM
Oh BTW, does anyone remember that Sam sad that he played that song for a woman he loved back on earth 2000 years ago, so Daniel could not have compose it, nor Kara's father. That could mean that those two are not cylons nor hybrids.

HAL2100
February 28th, 2009, 05:01 PM
70 minutes till I can watch it....

From the comments, I would hope that it isn't as simple as Kara's father being Daniel. I like the idea that the Lords of Kobol have been in the wings waiting, hoping to undo that which was done long ago (whatever that was).

I also hope that the last episode doesn't just cut to credits. I'd like to see a nice transition from the end of the story to the credits - especially if the ending music incorporates the original theme.

I don't know if this was brought up in the 'Sometimes a great notion' or 'Revelations' threads, but the initial concept for the original series had the rag tag fleet comprised of humans fleeing a nuclear holocaust on Earth searching for the colonies. It was flipped for dramatic purposes.

71! minutes...what the frak is going on with this connection...

Espeon1962
February 28th, 2009, 05:28 PM
My first thought is that salt and vinegar chips and red wine don't go that well together, and never again shall I combine the two while watching an episode of BSG!

My second thought remains - Galen is toast, and it could even be Athena who does him in. She was angry with everyone - she was pounding on her husband in anger and frustration, and you know she is going to be like the unstoppable wind in her vengeance.

Espeon1962
February 28th, 2009, 05:34 PM
71! minutes...what the frak is going on with this connection...


LOL, Hal, I got censored and a reprimand from one of the mods for committing the cardinal sin of mentioning what I believe you are doing.

But I hope you succeeded, have seen and enjoyed. :)

Espeon1962
February 28th, 2009, 06:00 PM
My final thoughts after my 2nd viewing:

A) Roselyn is not dead, but in a psychic shock. Question is why is neither Athena nor Natalie (? - correct six, now I forget which had the shared vision) not in the same shock? We were sort of given the impression a "psychic" wave/revelation hit Roselyn, and I would have thought irrespective of the trauma that Athena and Saul's wife have been through, that they would all have been affected.

How did Hera breath inside that case? It looked airtight to me if it was one of those hardshells. About 1-2 minutes would be enough to suffocate even an unconscious child.

I am now absolutely convinced that the "original" Daniel was Kara's father, and that she is in fact the first human/cylon hybrid. I noted before in prior posts that Ellen was very specific about the "Daniel copies" having been tainted, but no mention of the original so I think he got away from Cavil by escaping into the human population. Maybe Hera is important simply because she is still a child, so her beliefs are untainted by the impurity of adult feelings - she is still "virginal" with any taint of bias - which lack of taint shall be necessary to break the cycle.

Also, I think Kara was imagining everything. I think the discourse with the person was all in her head as she rationalized what she was doing subconsciously. But I believe the more important theme is the establishment that Hera and Kara (notice both the names end with "ra") are like psychic sisters - now I have to think back to the prior episodes when Kara was having all the dreams about the paintings etc, I am certain Hera was alive at the time, albeit a baby. But a bond exists.

The only part of the episode that I felt rang untrue was when the President "dismissed" Tyrol, you know treating someone that way is just asking for trouble.

After a second view, I feel better about the episode then the first go around, and the final 10 minutes were good. It was one of those episodes that built to a crescendo rather then the action paced all the way through.

Cloud
February 28th, 2009, 06:07 PM
Oh BTW, does anyone remember that Sam sad that he played that song for a woman he loved back on earth 2000 years ago, so Daniel could not have compose it, nor Kara's father. That could mean that those two are not cylons nor hybrids.

Yes I remember that. Sam said he played that song for a woman he loved, but then Tory immediately said he played it for "all of us" meaning he played it for the final five. The song is the trigger, but we dont know who pulls the trigger.

Immediately after the battle of Season 4's premier the Sixes said to Cavil that something has changed. And that's when the FF were activated (although they were in the process of being activated for a couple weeks before that time).

The only thing that changed is that Kara showed up on the battlefield.

bfldworker
February 28th, 2009, 06:16 PM
Found it.

Best part of this whole Episode. It brought everything together nicely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WalRgIjHjas

Espeon1962
February 28th, 2009, 06:35 PM
Found it.

Best part of this whole Episode. It brought everything together nicely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WalRgIjHjas

yes, and I keyed on something that I had realized subconsciously, which was that Boomer put something in the drink she gave Hera to put her asleep.

Someone posted earlier in this thread that they thought the music might be a starchart, and I like that idea, perhaps each note is a navigational fix as part of the route to a new home. And it makes sense as both music and math are languages that just need interpretation. It just takes the right kind of genius in order to be able to understand both.

HAL2100
February 28th, 2009, 06:48 PM
LOL, Hal, I got censored and a reprimand from one of the mods for committing the cardinal sin of mentioning what I believe you are doing.

But I hope you succeeded, have seen and enjoyed. :)

Its iTunes.

HAL2100
February 28th, 2009, 06:53 PM
I like the idea of the music being a star map, but I suspect that the writer's aren't that creative.

In watching it, while Daniel may have been Kara's father, I suspect that Head-Billy Joel (see earlier post) isn't him. For one, she didn't recognize him as her father. I suspect that H-BJ is the manifestation of whatever is manipulating all of them which I would like to see as the Lords (or a Lord) of Kobol trying to make restitution for whatever happened on Kobol 4,000 years previously.

bfldworker
February 28th, 2009, 07:43 PM
yes, and I keyed on something that I had realized subconsciously, which was that Boomer put something in the drink she gave Hera to put her asleep.

Someone posted earlier in this thread that they thought the music might be a star chart, and I like that idea, perhaps each note is a navigational fix as part of the route to a new home. And it makes sense as both music and math are languages that just need interpretation. It just takes the right kind of genius in order to be able to understand both.

Actually that makes sense. It isn't a secret that people have been known to put hints in music if they want to convey a message that they want secret.

And personally, I hope and prey that boomer gets what is coming to her. That <snip>deserves the worst possible punishment that can be given to her.

Perhaps strapped over one of the breaches on Galactica so when the breach goes critical she gets shredded like a paper through a shredder.

Or better yet, put next to a ship that is ready to jump and have her ripped apart by the spacial distortions.

Chricton
February 28th, 2009, 07:50 PM
Oh BTW, does anyone remember that Sam sad that he played that song for a woman he loved back on earth 2000 years ago, so Daniel could not have compose it, nor Kara's father. That could mean that those two are not cylons nor hybrids.

I think the connection is Anders could have simply taught it to Daniel, who was the "artist" of the new cylon models. If there really is a Daniel that got away, and he really did manage to somehow have a daughter, then there's still the possibility that she's not entirely human.

I think her death and resurrection already points this out regardless, though.

Descent
February 28th, 2009, 07:50 PM
Great episode. Poor, poor Tyrol. :( This season has not been kind to him (or any character :P).

My question is: What did he think was actually in that crate he gave to Boomer??

Finger13
February 28th, 2009, 08:07 PM
Wow, it is beyond me how anyone could find this episode boring or slow.

That was among the best episodes of Season 4, and was brilliantly done. It amazes me that BSG is still opening up so many new directions this close to the end of the series, or perhaps this is bringing those plots to a close. But I mean the kidnapped Hera is huge, how will they get them back if Boomer jumped back into Cavil's hands?

Or how about the Galactica. I think it'd be a stretch to say that the FTL jump finally finished her off, but now how will she be able to jump when the Cylons arrive, which they certainly will since they now have the location of the rebel fleet. (How did Boomer even find the fleet to begin with?)

Anyway, that bit with the music was awesome. I love how she slowly comes into it, then they go into the melody full force and it sounds amazing. Tigh's reaction is amazing hahaha, the look on his face the "What the Frak!?" were priceless.

Not sure what's up with Roslin, must be linked to Hera. But she was fine when she was on the Base Ship for that length of time, and when Hera was in Cylon hands. So then who knows.

HAL2100
February 28th, 2009, 08:15 PM
I think the connection is Anders could have simply taught it to Daniel, who was the "artist" of the new cylon models. If there really is a Daniel that got away, and he really did manage to somehow have a daughter, then there's still the possibility that she's not entirely human.

I think her death and resurrection already points this out regardless, though.

But why would the other hearing it trigger their memories? Daniel would have to been around to orchestrate that and THEN only partial memories not to mention that he would have had to come up with a Viper Mark II in prestine condition. I don't think Daniel is the one pulling the strings.

Side Note: While watching it, I seem to recall that one of the basestar Hybrids prophesied that the dying leader would know the truth of the opera house. While I like the idea of Galactica being the dying leader, the phrophesy would suggest that it has to be human - or at least sentient, which Galactica could become via the Basestar goo. I think the DL is NOT Galactica. (Also, personally, I like the idea of Galactica being pushed to the utter limit and then going out in a fabulous blaze of glory worthy of her.)

HAL2100
February 28th, 2009, 08:51 PM
Observation: We don't know for a fact that Boomer is taking Hera to Cavil. While everything would suggest that there's a high probability that she is, there's no hard and fast proof of it. Yes, she assaulted Athena and frakked Helo, but was that because he walked in on her before she could get dressed? or was there some other motive going on. If she's the [delete] that we think she is, why didn't she just flat out kill Athena.

All that being said it is probable that she is after Hera so that the Simons can figure out how reproduction works.

Easter Lily
February 28th, 2009, 09:16 PM
I've gotta to say that I'm somewhat disappointed with the show in terms of its overall pacing of episodes. It's not about speed to me (I don't need a lot of action sequences to enjoy something), it's about how much they've chosen to reveal and not to reveal at such a late stage. It doesn't feel to me that a lot of it was thought through properly and now we're cramming big time for the finals.

I loved Kara and Mr Piano Man incidentally but couldn't we have had hints of it much earlier on and still not been given too much? Instead we had a lot angry, nihilistic Kara that seemed to go no where for the longest time.
I suspect that this BIG reveal stuff was not properly mapped out at least not in the way S1 and the first half of S2 was.

Easter Lily
February 28th, 2009, 10:00 PM
I am gonna say it because everyone else doesnt seem to have the stones to.
Ronald moore must be a pansy, or a flake. he is definitely unstable. I brought it up before that they kept harping the cylon "plan" and did nothing with it, then they conveniently axed it from the opening. Then he tells us that they have decided to close it out after only 4 seasons, because they felt like it was time and they wanted to end it on their own terns. Please give me a break that is a crock. This whole entire show has been written completely and totaly on the fly, so while it does leave us open to surprise shockers, like boomer sluggin athena, and frakin helo , it is merely shock value and not some grand scheme that he and David Eick had planned from the beginning.
my question is why? Is he just bored with it, and wants to move on the the soap that will be caprica? They can act like they had this planned and it was winding down , but like most stuff its a ruse and they are being forced to cram story into the final episodes to "reveal" key plot points as Si fi has so heavily advertised. But things are feeling really forced. with several characters If not all of them. Its like watching someone who is unstable crack under the pressure, it can be entertainment to some, but ultimately its sad, and pathetic, but lets move on since in 3.5 episodes any discussion will be moot, but I do feel there is more going on than we have been told, maybe its the Glen Larsen project and the head honchos wanting to end this version before the movie, but this is too forced to be " planned", unless of course Ron Moore has one helluva case of ADD, and just has become bored with the project. I mean look at the simpsons. it could go on forever if enough effort is made for it to.


I wish I had read your post before posting mine... Could have saved myself the trouble by quoting it and then putting AGREED under it. ;)
I think the show started off very well especially the first 20 eps and then for some reason it started to go for the shock factor and wallow in the misery of its characters. I think the show's been very fortunate to have some very good actors to help it carry some of its more lacklustre moments. Really, I never expected BSG to go on for years and years... five years max... I prefer it that way... for the show to have a beginning, middle and end... to go some where and end there. There was talk about a plan and I was expecting to see contours of one but maybe in the end that was too hard to sustain due to the whimsical demands of television bosses.

The uproar at the end of S3 about the identity of the final five was certainly proof that the audience weren't completely onboard with this version of the cylon plan anyhow. Their identities certainly came as a big surprise to me and even now, I'm not completely certain they had all this worked out from the beginning.

I guess I'm spoilt... I was expecting something along the lines of B5 and for a while there, I thought we were going to get it. :(
I don't think it's all bad... obviously but it's more about moments for me than complete awe watching an entire arc unfold before my eyes.

Platschu
March 1st, 2009, 01:42 AM
I disappointed in Tyrol. He went back to Boomer like Cally never existed... They had a marriage and a "common" child for 1-2 year! :(

Wayston
March 1st, 2009, 03:59 AM
that was explained in the show itself I think; chief and cally were never a great couple, they were merely the best match out of the few remaining options

the missing 7
March 1st, 2009, 07:03 AM
What the frak" ? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouz2TUBojd8)

the missing 7
March 1st, 2009, 07:06 AM
Great episode. Poor, poor Tyrol. :( This season has not been kind to him (or any character :P).

My question is: What did he think was actually in that crate he gave to Boomer??
hera LOL

Its iTunes.

i knew what you meant without you saying anything

RDAfan61
March 1st, 2009, 07:41 AM
Adding onto the idea of Hera drawing the notes...what if the notes are a starmap? Starbuck asked Hera if she was drawing stars and she said yes. Then she gave her the paper with the dots. What if the music the 5 know, the music that Starbuck was taught as a child and the music that Hera knows are meant to show the way to the promised land?

That was my thought too when she said they were stars.

On the Cylon projection thing and escaping, maybe they can only do it with other Cylons? Has anything ever been stated about that? Can't remember.

I too thought the ep was slow but they were trying to establish Kara's story and also show that Boomer really does seem to care for Chief. That's what made the last 10 mins that much more intense.

Skydiver
March 1st, 2009, 07:50 AM
that was explained in the show itself I think; chief and cally were never a great couple, they were merely the best match out of the few remaining options
chief 'married' callie out of a sense of obligation because he thought he was her baby daddy

Corona
March 1st, 2009, 07:55 AM
Great episode. Poor, poor Tyrol. :( This season has not been kind to him (or any character :P).

My question is: What did he think was actually in that crate he gave to Boomer??

Extra rations. Earlier all pilots were told to take extra rations in case of an FTL failure. With a shortage of pilots it could take a while to get found.

Star charts converted to music, ones and zeros would survive the resurrection process while any other media wouldn't carry over. Subliminal maps to get 'home'?

peragrin
March 1st, 2009, 08:20 AM
Side Note: While watching it, I seem to recall that one of the basestar Hybrids prophesied that the dying leader would know the truth of the opera house. While I like the idea of Galactica being the dying leader, the phrophesy would suggest that it has to be human - or at least sentient, which Galactica could become via the Basestar goo. I think the DL is NOT Galactica. (Also, personally, I like the idea of Galactica being pushed to the utter limit and then going out in a fabulous blaze of glory worthy of her.)

Unless of course Galactica is the "new opera house" The galactica would know all that happens within it's walls. Soon we are going to see groups heading in different directions. I really don't see an opera house out in space. however I do see a piano, and a bunch of people listening to the truth it makes.

Cloud
March 1st, 2009, 08:37 AM
I don't understand why the fleet is looking for a new planet to settle on. Won't it just end up being another New Caprica when Cavil arrives?

In Razor, the tub man hybrid said Kara would lead them all to their end and do not follow her. What if this star map (if that's what it is) is that end? And I thought tub man was talking about Earth.

Hera drawing those dots don't make sense

After four seasons Helo finally got what he wanted: to frak Boomer. Recall season one when he meets Athena on Caprica and thinks she is Boomer? Boomer was on Galactica at the time. Helo said to Athena "I used to look at the chief many times and wish I was him". And thats why he couldn't tell that he wasn't frakking his wife; because Boomer was the one he wanted to frak all along. Good thing he fell in love with Athena. What if Boomer gets pregnant with Helo's child. Wouldn't that make him a wanted man? Wanted by the cylons. Cavil: "we've gotta capture that stud and have Simon examine him" (yes i made that cavil quote up)

Descent
March 1st, 2009, 08:54 AM
I don't understand why the fleet is looking for a new planet to settle on. Won't it just end up being another New Caprica when Cavil arrives?

In Razor, the tub man hybrid said Kara would lead them all to their end and do not follow her. What if this star map (if that's what it is) is that end? And I thought tub man was talking about Earth.

Hera drawing those dots don't make sense

What else can they do at this point? Fight Cavil head-on and hope for the best? :P

To me, Earth was "the end". A wasteland that gave them nothing. She's not leading them anywhere now.

Corona
March 1st, 2009, 10:22 AM
Is resurrection really dead? The FF died and beamed up to the orbiting do over and then what? Did this resurrection ship have any power to traverse the way back to Kobol or Caprica or was it a mini ship they parked and deactivated for next time? They had to have interstellar ability, slow as it was and it may have been in a second ship parked somewhere in the Hera star map

This allows Kara to be Kara 2.0 and allows for a happy ending after the endgame with Cavil. Will they put Hera in and get Daniel out?

The musician and the artist, Daniel carried the codes in music which are star maps. Hera has the melodies and the maps in her as shown by her little riff. What needs to be done is the merging of the young Hera into a new Daniel body. That makes Hera all she is supposed to be, living up to her fate of saving the day.

I still am curious of why Daniel was such a threat that Cavil had him corrupted and eliminated on a genetic level. I think something went sideways and the essence of Daniel survived in the genes of every skinjob cylon.

From Wiki: Hera is the human/cylon hybrid child of Helo and Sharon Agathon. Her blood is used to "cure" Roslin's cancer. Roslin, not trusting Sharon Agathon with the child, but also not wanting to kill her, decides to fake Hera's death, and gives the child to Maya, the mother of a stillborn child. After Maya's death on New Caprica, Hera is taken aboard a baseship by the Cylons. During the stand-off between the Cylons and the Colonials over the Eye of Jupiter, Helo kills Sharon at her request so she can download into a ship in the Cylon fleet. She then rescues Hera, with the help of Caprica Six, and returns to the Galactica.

Now if Boomer is headed for the abandoned resurection ship to recreate Daniel from Hera, or to remove her cylon component leaving a human child healthy and a functioning Seven, that could be bad news for Cavil who I believe is afraid of the Seven. He tried destroying him. He failed.

Crunch time! Some of us have to be guessing right!

the missing 7
March 1st, 2009, 10:30 AM
one positionable error in the ep

in the past the cylons said that hera could tell the difference between boomer and Athena ...am i wrong???

shouldn't hera had known that it wasn't her real mother coming to get her out of daycare>>

garhkal
March 1st, 2009, 10:32 AM
Found it.

Best part of this whole Episode. It brought everything together nicely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WalRgIjHjas


I wonder what the instruments playing in the backround were.

Also, did you notice that both Ellen and the other chick were looking shocked as heck?


(Also, personally, I like the idea of Galactica being pushed to the utter limit and then going out in a fabulous blaze of glory worthy of her.)/quote]

I hope so, especially if it does it in the way Pegasus went down.. god bless her soul.

[quote]that was explained in the show itself I think; chief and cally were never a great couple, they were merely the best match out of the few remaining options

True, she was more like a fall back woman for her after loosing boomer.

jollyrogue
March 1st, 2009, 10:36 AM
What a good last 10 minutes.. I actually had shivers when i realised it was the FF song and seeing Tighs face when he realised it was the song.

g.o.d
March 1st, 2009, 10:39 AM
yeah, that was one of the best moments in the entire show

Espeon1962
March 1st, 2009, 11:07 AM
Is resurrection really dead? The FF died and beamed up to the orbiting do over and then what? Did this resurrection ship have any power to traverse the way back to Kobol or Caprica or was it a mini ship they parked and deactivated for next time? They had to have interstellar ability, slow as it was and it may have been in a second ship parked somewhere in the Hera star map

We do know the Resurrection ship was destroyed, as Cavil, when confronting Ellen on the basestar, noted it was and wanted Ellen to rebuild it. I think we have been led to believe the resurrection that the five use is apparently different then the resurrection process used by the Eight.

Also, the Daniel model was contaminated by Cavil simply because Cavil was jealous of the relationship between Daniel and Ellen (who said Daniel was her favorite), that also was revealed in the conversation between them on the basestar. I think the root of the jealousy was that although Cavil was created first, and helped in the creating of the other 7 models, he did not feel he was loved or appreciated by Ellen and the others.

P-90_177
March 1st, 2009, 11:41 AM
one positionable error in the ep

in the past the cylons said that hera could tell the difference between boomer and Athena ...am i wrong???

shouldn't hera had known that it wasn't her real mother coming to get her out of daycare>>

She will have done, but notice how the first thing Boomer did was stick a bottle in heras mouth so she couldn't speak. Hera herself probably wouldn't have seen the danger, it was just a worry that perhaps she might have said something like "where's mommy?" as Boomer walked her out of the daycare.

bfldworker
March 1st, 2009, 12:04 PM
But then how do you explain the Final Five not commenting on that? Did the FF decide to keep her existence as a Earth-Cylon a secret?

It is entirely possible that there may have been more people ready to upload/download outside the Final Five. Just because it isn't mentioned doesn't mean it didn't happen. There have been many times through out this series that stuff has happened without other knowing about it until the end.

bfldworker
March 1st, 2009, 12:08 PM
Most of the episodes in 4.5 have been SO BORING! I understand they need to tell us the story, but the fact is they aren't doing that. They're taking an hour to give us a small tidbit of information that just LEADS TO MORE QUESTIONS.......Each week's preview has the line "You will know the truth...." but we never get the truth.......

We still dont know:
1.Who Kara is.......They've ignored this question up until this episode......which didnt tell us anything
2. What Balter and Caprica have to do with Hera.......BALTER WASNT EVEN IN THIS EPISODE

and of plether of other questions that remain unanswered. Sorry to rant, but each week the list grows.....lol:o


I think these episodes have been slow for 2 reasons. Explaining Kara is one of them, as well as setting the story for the last 3 episodes.

Then there was a column I read that Ron Moore asked the effects department to save as much money as they could for the last episodes.

bfldworker
March 1st, 2009, 12:45 PM
Looks like Galactica is going to bite the dust shortly given all the recent punishment, but one has to hope she goes out with a bang, rather then a whimper.

Recent????? Try over 4 years.

Nuclear attack in Mini Series
Adama Maneuver in Exodus part 2
The constant damaged brought on in the Episode Passage
And the numerous other attacks.

But I think it is safe to say she between the damage from Exodus and the passage. She really took it bad.

Rac80
March 1st, 2009, 12:51 PM
My money is still on Kara being the first true Cylon-Human Hybrid.
uh huh!I figured out the piano player was her head!daddy from the beginning!


yes, he did. when he picked up the wrench, he used that to whack an eight, took advantage of the power outage to swap them

that's why he was so stricken at the end, he realized that it's all his fault, she played him like a harp

Yep poor chief, boomer knows exactly how to play that man!! I am betting he is going to kill her!

bfldworker
March 1st, 2009, 01:00 PM
What the frak" ? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouz2TUBojd8)


I agree, What are the chances that Kara would be playing the same song that Not only activated the Final Five, but also the same song that Sam played??? As well as the same song that Hara pretty much drew with crayons on a piece of paper.

threeohohsix
March 1st, 2009, 02:23 PM
So I don't know if anyone has brought this up already but...how could Galactica possible be the dying leader? A lot of you are putting up a good argument for this but there's one thing you're forgetting. The hybrid said that "the dying leader would know the truth of the opera house". Can Galactica know something? Well it's not alive like cylon ships are so no it can't. Neither does it have special dreams of an opera house.

Skydiver
March 1st, 2009, 02:54 PM
galactica can 'know' something....what if the info is hidden in her data banks????

wontgetfooledagain
March 1st, 2009, 03:58 PM
I still am curious of why Daniel was such a threat that Cavil had him corrupted and eliminated on a genetic level.
Being artistic, Daniel was probably way more human than any of the other skinjobs created up to that point.

HAL2100
March 1st, 2009, 05:44 PM
one positionable error in the ep

in the past the cylons said that hera could tell the difference between boomer and Athena ...am i wrong???

shouldn't hera had known that it wasn't her real mother coming to get her out of daycare>>

Unless she realized her own destiny and that it involved going with Boomer. Boomer wouldn't have known this hence the kidnapping.

I'm surprised that someone hasn't photoshopped a pic of Hera unto a milk carton and made a FBI Most Wanted Picture of Boomer.... HINT! HINT!

deadman
March 1st, 2009, 05:48 PM
I can't believe that its almost over and we have no idea whats going to happen

Star Fox
March 1st, 2009, 06:05 PM
I was upset to see Pegasus destroyed, and its gonna kill me to watch Galactica explode.

I thought the episode was pretty boring (except the events with Boomer) but it all made sense at the end. Every part had a purpose.

Cheif talking with Adama about the ship only having a few jumps left and Boomer jumping too close, and possibly destroying the ship for good. I was hoping she would become a museum after all once a new planet was found, that will not happen now.

MrBojangles
March 1st, 2009, 06:15 PM
So I don't know if anyone has brought this up already but...how could Galactica possible be the dying leader? A lot of you are putting up a good argument for this but there's one thing you're forgetting. The hybrid said that "the dying leader would know the truth of the opera house". Can Galactica know something? Well it's not alive like cylon ships are so no it can't. Neither does it have special dreams of an opera house.


Oh but it is now thanks to the Chief's repair job with the Cylon goo.

Descent
March 1st, 2009, 06:21 PM
Oh but it is now thanks to the Chief's repair job with the Cylon goo.

But does the goo enable it to think now?? That's a bit of a stretch.

MrBojangles
March 1st, 2009, 06:24 PM
But does the goo enable it to think now?? That's a bit of a stretch.

The skinjobs are glorified skin sacks and goo... Your point? ;)

HAL2100
March 1st, 2009, 06:59 PM
So if Galactica is now the Goo-Galactica, does that mean that someone's going get plugged into it like a hybrid?

bfldworker
March 1st, 2009, 07:29 PM
So I don't know if anyone has brought this up already but...how could Galactica possible be the dying leader? A lot of you are putting up a good argument for this but there's one thing you're forgetting. The hybrid said that "the dying leader would know the truth of the opera house". Can Galactica know something? Well it's not alive like cylon ships are so no it can't. Neither does it have special dreams of an opera house.

There are 3 possibilities for who the dying leader is.

Obviously the first one is Laura Roslin. Mainly because of her Cancer.
Second could obviously (Obvious meaning lately.) The ship Galactica
And the third which I have yet to see anyone mention. Admiral William Adama.

Why Adama? Has anyone notice how when he gets stressed it leans over and there is a expression of discomfort or pain? I know I have noticed it.

And I feel that is something Ron Moore may pull, being he has a history of coming out of left field with surprises.

threeohohsix
March 1st, 2009, 10:15 PM
Hmm but out of those three the only one with a connection to the opera house is Laura Roslin. I don't understand how Galactica could have a connection or Adama unless something shows up in the last eps. Though Laura hasn't really been a leader lately...I guess we'll just have to wait hah

Mongoletsi
March 2nd, 2009, 03:08 AM
I thought this episode was one of the best of the entire show to date. HOWEVER, I'm getting more and more concerned that we're going to be left with a lot of loose ends and unanswered questions. The writers seem to be just making a lot of stuff up as they go along with a dose of retcon (I believe it's called). But sooooo many questions now.

Incidentally, how the frak does Tyrol imagine he'll get away with breaking Boomer out? It's not going to take a genius to see the dead 8 in the brig... "heh, that 8 was working with the Chief" etc.

Mongoletsi
March 2nd, 2009, 03:11 AM
So if Galactica is now the Goo-Galactica, does that mean that someone's going get plugged into it like a hybrid?

I doubt it. There's a biological bonding agent in the hull. Wouldn't rule out a skinjob interfacing like Athena did a couple of times (once with Galactica to shutdown the Raiders, the other time in the Raptor).

Xepla
March 2nd, 2009, 03:24 AM
So I don't know if anyone has brought this up already but...how could Galactica possible be the dying leader? A lot of you are putting up a good argument for this but there's one thing you're forgetting. The hybrid said that "the dying leader would know the truth of the opera house". Can Galactica know something? Well it's not alive like cylon ships are so no it can't. Neither does it have special dreams of an opera house.

i am wrestling with this idea as well.
One theory is that laura AND galactica are both the dying leader.
they have a lot in common (are dying, are deeply loved by adama, were both infused with cylon 'blood', are leading the people, were given a vision of snakes- with laura it was a hallucination, with galactica it was Vipers, etc)

It's possible that we will lose both the ship and laura at the same time, which would fulfill the prophecy without the viewer ever really knowing which one the scrolls were speaking of specifically.

Buuut, i kind of side with you on this one. I think laura is *the* dying leader because of what the hybrid said.

This line is more important now than ever: "the dying leader will know the truth of the opera house"
because of the appearance of Daniel. the opera house comes back in this episode when Kara picks up the cassette tape of her dad's piano performance: Live at the Helice Opera House.

This is also why I don't think laura can be dead yet. The galactica is a ship. It does not have consciousness (no, i dont think the cylon goo constitutes consciousness =p) and therefore cannot "know." Laura's shared visions of, and involvement with the opera house is the best argument ive seen that she is in fact THE dying leader, if we are going to accept hybrid poetry as prophecy, which I'm willing to do after what they said about kara being the harbringer of death or whatever it was.

So if Laura will know the truth of the opera house...
I guess there is still a possibility that Laura is actually dead, considering that the opera house visions centered largely around Hera. Her last word being "Hera.." maybe she DID realize the truth. who knows?

i hope laura's not dead. She can't be dead. Not now.. NOT EVER!!

Pharaoh Atem
March 2nd, 2009, 03:44 AM
really good ep i loved that kara's father came to her as a "head" and that she knows all along the watch tower :weiranime33:

i still kept screaming the whole ep "wake up sam" i hope he does

boomer putting hera in that box was funny (poor girl) and then galen just dropping it :P

bill's reaction to the damage in CIC was amazing galactica's on life support and boomer just walked into the hospital room and give it a good punch in the face

lordolorin
March 2nd, 2009, 04:30 AM
Hmmm one thing poped in my mind while reading some of your posts. Maybe Lora is the dying leader and Galactica is actually the Opera House. If you think about it, every reveletion in the series happened on Galactica, so, why not?!

HAL2100
March 2nd, 2009, 04:40 AM
Hmm but out of those three the only one with a connection to the opera house is Laura Roslin. I don't understand how Galactica could have a connection or Adama unless something shows up in the last eps. Though Laura hasn't really been a leader lately...I guess we'll just have to wait hah

But the prophecy states "The Dying Leader will know the truth of the opera house..." which means simply that whatever the truth is, TDL will know it. It does not exclude Adama from being the TDL even though it appears that he hasn't had any Opera House visions. Knowing the truth of the Opera House is not dependent upon having a vision of it. For example, what if the truth of the Opera House is revealed to Number Six and Number Six tells Adam about it? He would know the truth, but not have any visions of the Opera House.

HAL2100
March 2nd, 2009, 04:41 AM
I thought this episode was one of the best of the entire show to date. HOWEVER, I'm getting more and more concerned that we're going to be left with a lot of loose ends and unanswered questions. The writers seem to be just making a lot of stuff up as they go along with a dose of retcon (I believe it's called). But sooooo many questions now.

Incidentally, how the frak does Tyrol imagine he'll get away with breaking Boomer out? It's not going to take a genius to see the dead 8 in the brig... "heh, that 8 was working with the Chief" etc.

I seem to recall an interview were RDM made a comment that loose ends would be tied up, but in so doing there'd be other questions raised.

Mongoletsi
March 2nd, 2009, 06:28 AM
I seem to recall an interview were RDM made a comment that loose ends would be tied up, but in so doing there'd be other questions raised.
Hrm, but some require tying up in order for the show to remain credible. We'll see...

Pharaoh Atem
March 2nd, 2009, 06:48 AM
i would also like to gives credit to how ever made the toothpaste gag

seriously no more toothpaste :S

Pharaoh Atem
March 2nd, 2009, 08:06 AM
i wonder how much algae the fleet has left??

g.o.d
March 2nd, 2009, 08:15 AM
who gives a frak about algae? All they need is a booze :D

Arative
March 2nd, 2009, 09:11 AM
I thought when Starbuck started playing the notes that Hera gave her that it would wake up Sam. But when all along the watchtower started playing I got the chills. It was a good episode, and setting up the last 3 episodes.

I'm sad to see the old girl dying though. She is a great ship and hope they can repair her enough to get her to their new home. But then this is BSG, so that might be too much to hope for.

Berg417448
March 2nd, 2009, 09:12 AM
Hrm, but some require tying up in order for the show to remain credible. We'll see...

Back in January RDM did an interview and was asked about answers to some of the mysteries of the show:

Q: A lot of times in the podcast, you'll say things like, "I know people are interested in this, but that's really not where the story's going." You didn't really deal with the toasters becoming sentient again, that sort of thing. After I watched "Revelations," I thought it was a great ending, but I jotted down a list of things that still had to be dealt with. I'm wondering, without you giving it away, whether these things are going to be addressed or whether these are things that we're thinking a lot more about than you were.

RDM: Do you have a list?
Q: Yeah.

RDM: Okay.

Q: Obviously, the identity of the final Cylon, we will find this out?

RDM: Yeah.

Q: The origin and nature of the Final Four and how they different from the rest of them?

RDM: Yes.

Q: The origin of the rest of the skinjobs?

RDM: Yes.

Q: What happened to Earth and what happened to the 13th Colony?

RDM: Yes.

Q: Who, if anyone, is orchestrating all of this?

RDM: Basically, yeah. I don't know if it's going to be wrapped up in a neat bow. The show has an answer for it, whether it's a satisfying answer, I don't know.

Q: Will "All this has happened before and it will happen again" be explained in some way?

RDM: Yes.

Q: The opera house?

RDM: Yes.

Q: What happened to Kara when she went through the Malestrom?

RDM: Pretty much.

Q: Identity and nature of the "head" characters?

RDM: Yes.

Q: Tigh and Six's baby, and whether that means Cylons can breed?

RDM: Yes. That's not a "yes" to whether they can breed -- the question will be answered.

Q: The fate of Boomer and whether there are other 1's, 4's and 5's floating out there?

RDM: Yes.

Q: Roslin's health?

RDM: Yes.

Q: Okay, that's a "yes" on all of them.

RDM: See? We knew what all the questions were! I'm kind of proud of myself. "Yes"es to all of them. I thought you were going to throw a curve at me, like, "Oh, (bleep)."

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/01/battlestar_galactica_ron_moore.html

Pharaoh Atem
March 2nd, 2009, 09:17 AM
Back in January RDM did an interview and was asked about answers to some of the mysteries of the show:

Q: A lot of times in the podcast, you'll say things like, "I know people are interested in this, but that's really not where the story's going." You didn't really deal with the toasters becoming sentient again, that sort of thing. After I watched "Revelations," I thought it was a great ending, but I jotted down a list of things that still had to be dealt with. I'm wondering, without you giving it away, whether these things are going to be addressed or whether these are things that we're thinking a lot more about than you were.

RDM: Do you have a list?
Q: Yeah.

RDM: Okay.

Q: Obviously, the identity of the final Cylon, we will find this out?

RDM: Yeah.

Q: The origin and nature of the Final Four and how they different from the rest of them?

RDM: Yes.

Q: The origin of the rest of the skinjobs?

RDM: Yes.

Q: What happened to Earth and what happened to the 13th Colony?

RDM: Yes.

Q: Who, if anyone, is orchestrating all of this?

RDM: Basically, yeah. I don't know if it's going to be wrapped up in a neat bow. The show has an answer for it, whether it's a satisfying answer, I don't know.

Q: Will "All this has happened before and it will happen again" be explained in some way?

RDM: Yes.

Q: The opera house?

RDM: Yes.

Q: What happened to Kara when she went through the Malestrom?

RDM: Pretty much.

Q: Identity and nature of the "head" characters?

RDM: Yes.

Q: Tigh and Six's baby, and whether that means Cylons can breed?

RDM: Yes. That's not a "yes" to whether they can breed -- the question will be answered.

Q: The fate of Boomer and whether there are other 1's, 4's and 5's floating out there?

RDM: Yes.

Q: Roslin's health?

RDM: Yes.

Q: Okay, that's a "yes" on all of them.

RDM: See? We knew what all the questions were! I'm kind of proud of myself. "Yes"es to all of them. I thought you were going to throw a curve at me, like, "Oh, (bleep)."

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/01/battlestar_galactica_ron_moore.html

drool on the bolded text

the stuff i wanna know about

Arative
March 2nd, 2009, 09:38 AM
Here is the watcher interview with the writers. Good stuff.

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-starbuck-boomer-someone-to-watch-over-me-.html#more

ricc
March 2nd, 2009, 10:00 AM
Does anyone else think that Boomer stole Hera, so Cavil can use her as a bargaining chip with the final five in order to get them to reinvent ressurection?

bmadiuk
March 2nd, 2009, 11:29 AM
I have been lurking these threads since the start of the season, and I have to say I like all of the things I read. A lot of great ideas and thoughts going on.

I have been disappointed with Battlestar since the end of season 2. Season 3 was a wash for me, and when S4 started I was very excited. I have to admit though, I find that the writers string us along too much.

I get it, it's a drama. But with 3 eps left... there's no WAY 417 should have been an episode. 42 minutes of BSG, 8 minutes of content worth showing. That has been the mantra of the writers for some time I think.

I don't suppose having S1 battle scenes every single episode is what I am looking for. But when there's so little time left to explain every story arch in this complex series, I think blowing the eps is just reckless.

Lots agree, lots disagree. But I just thought now was the time I jump in with my 2c. :)

Pheonix Commander
March 2nd, 2009, 01:25 PM
It would appear to me that Boomer taking Hera was part of a higher plan that Boomer may not realise yet, because i think Hera has a bigger part to play in the final episodes then anyone realises. RDM tends to give hints about almost forgotten characters then runs with them for a few weeks after bringing them back into focus. By sparking our memories of Hera i feel she may be a big part of the last few eps.

As for the dying leader, im pretty confident its not the Goolactica. I have a theory that may be left field for most people but does anyone think it might actually be Starbuck? Based mainly on two things - the its all happened before and will again - she has died once before by the look of things and may have ressurrected and the fact that she led them to earth may fit with a bit of a leap of faith! lol

Just a few thoughts...

bfldworker
March 2nd, 2009, 02:35 PM
For anyone who is interested. Here is the "sheet music" for the Final Five Piano scene.

http://www.radioshacksucks.biz/BFLD/Pics/theme-final-five-invert.jpg

HAL2100
March 2nd, 2009, 04:05 PM
i would also like to gives credit to how ever made the toothpaste gag

seriously no more toothpaste :S

I had forgotten about it, but really felt that it was a nice touch. If I had been one the writer/producers, I would have told Katie Sackhoff to find something everyday and bring it as the prize and NOT tell the other actors that she was going to drop it in to her speil just to capture any laughter or reaction from those in the briefing.

HAL2100
March 2nd, 2009, 04:10 PM
Someone mentioned a few posts above about Hera having a bigger part to play. There's that part of me that hopes that she not only does, but KNOWS the specifics of it which leads us to the point where Cavil thinks that he's pulling the strings and pulls them only to find (much to his surprise) that when he turns around he finds out that he's the one whose strings are being pulled and Hera's the one doing it.

entil2001
March 2nd, 2009, 04:24 PM
This episode is a mixture of beauty and brutality, and in this instance, both are captivating. After the mess that was the previous episode, I was a bit worried that the writers were going to aim high and shoot low with the ending. This episode, however, makes it look more likely that the series will have a strong finish after all.

First, the beauty. I’ve always been aware of the role of music in this series, and that definitely helped to enhance my enjoyment of this particular episode. It set a mood of melancholy and foreboding from the very beginning, and it kept me spellbound throughout Kara’s emotional and psychological journey.

It doesn’t hurt that the essential thrust of the story appears to confirm my suspicion that Kara’s father was the recently mentioned “Daniel”, perhaps the only surviving Seven. That’s not necessarily the only interpretation that could be made, but it is becoming the clear frontrunner. With so little time left, I have reservations at the writers could introduce anything else that wouldn’t feel like a deus ex machina solution.

“All Along the Watchtower” provides a musical connective thread between the Final Five, Kara, and Hera. Where the Final Five seem to hear the music more directly, Kara and Hera experience it more subconsciously. For Kara, it comes out through a kind of Cylon projection, summoning up a version of her father to guide her to self-awareness. Hera’s not in a position quite yet to explain how she knew the music, but this could explain why Roslin seemed to react to something in “Crossroads”.

Presumably, this brings Kara closer to understanding her “special destiny”. If her father was one of the skinjobs, then in a very real sense, she co-opts Hera as the first Human/Cylon hybrid within the Colonies. It would explain why Kara has always been searching for her place in the world; there’s never been anyone quite like her.

There’s still the matter of her resurrection to consider. That it took place on or near Earth appears significant; she didn’t resurrect among the Cylon fleet, after all. This implies that Kara was resurrected by the same technology that brought back the Final Five after the annihilation of Earth. The location of that technology could be significant, because as we see in this episode, the fleet has been searching for a suitable planet to inhabit for weeks, and the constant grind is getting to everyone.

The anticipated Human/Cylon alliance is in full swing, with the Cylons now having a seat on the newly reconstructed Quorum (that we haven’t actually seen). They’re flying missions together, their working to keep Galactica space-worthy together, and they’re acting in accord on critical items such as justice and survival. Between the mutiny and the Cylon civil war, neither side has what it needs to make it alone, and they’ve adjusted accordingly.

Internal to the story, Galactica is still falling apart at the seams, and even before the damage was done by Boomer’s escape, it was only going to make it through one more jump. The implication is that this final jump would be to whatever planet they manage to find. Between wrapping up the mysteries surrounding Kara and the particulars surrounding the alliance, that might have been enough on its own to sustain the rest of the series. But there’s still the small matter of the external conflict with Cavil.

It makes sense, based on the ease of escape in “No Exit”, that Boomer was helping Ellen as part of a plot. Ellen made it clear to Cavil that Hera was the future of her plan, so of course his own success would hinge on controlling (and, logically, eliminating) that asset. Beyond what Boomer did in this episode to convince Tyrol to help her with her mission, using their past history as a pretext, I’m not sure how that was supposed to work.

Cavil couldn’t have known that Boomer would have the chance to twist Tyrol’s emotions, so the plan was essentially a last-ditch effort. It never should have worked. That makes it a bit of a plot convenience, but it’s the kind that works because the audience needed a resolution to the Boomer/Tyrol thread. It also pushes the final confrontation with Tyrol into the short term, which allows it to coincide logically with the Galactica’s final days.

There is a certain level of irony here. Athena seduced Helo by posing as Boomer on Caprica during the first season. In a way, Athena co-opted a life that could have been Boomer’s. Boomer gets her pound of flesh in this episode, and it is not at all pretty. It’s actually one of the more disturbing moments in the entire series run. Boomer beats Athena to a pulp, essentially forces Athena to watch her sleep with Helo, and then steals Athena’s daughter.

What makes this so crushing is the realization that Boomer has been a victim for so long that her actions must seem justified in her own mind. Boomer’s attempted assassination of Adama was programmed into her (presumably by Cavil). She tried to atone for that mistake in the past, but it always went horribly wrong (particularly the New Caprica experiment, which was clearly undermined by Cavil in retrospect). Boomer ultimately has been used and abused by Cavil in more ways than one can count (including their “affair” on the baseship).

This doesn’t excuse Boomer in the slightest, but it does point to the notion that Boomer is still being used; she’s still not acting out of her own personal agency. Either that will never change, and Boomer will end up being a tragic figure, or the moment that she takes control of her life will be a critical point of the finale.


John Keegan
Reprinted with permission
Original source: c. Critical Myth, 2009
All rights reserved
Link: http://www.criticalmyth.com

Atlanis
March 2nd, 2009, 05:12 PM
I too think that was Kara's dad it was the same as when she learned to play when she was young but I don't for one minute think he is a Cylon I think he is (and Kara too)
Are these "Angeles" that Anders mentioned just before they took the built out of him

HAL2100
March 2nd, 2009, 05:47 PM
I too think that was Kara's dad it was the same as when she learned to play when she was young but I don't for one minute think he is a Cylon I think he is (and Kara too)
Are these "Angeles" that Anders mentioned just before they took the built out of him

There's still the issue of where the brand-spanking, just off the showroom floor, Viper Mark II came from.

atlantis-abydos
March 2nd, 2009, 06:01 PM
I totally loved this episode. The emotions swelled up in me when Kara and her Dad (I so think he's Daniel?) started playing All Along The Watchtower. I love what Bear McCreary did with the tune, it's probably totally overplayed on my iTunes ^^
Hopefully Anders wakes up soon and can clarify what Kara's role is in all of this. Hera seems to know already...

HAL2100
March 2nd, 2009, 07:17 PM
I totally loved this episode. The emotions swelled up in me when Kara and her Dad (I so think he's Daniel?) started playing All Along The Watchtower. I love what Bear McCreary did with the tune, it's probably totally overplayed on my iTunes ^^
Hopefully Anders wakes up soon and can clarify what Kara's role is in all of this. Hera seems to know already...

and to beat this bush to a pulp and turn it to an ungodly alcoholic brew...if RDM had sat down and did a general master story arc, the writers could have had multiple instances where Kara is alone and hums the song...think about how frackin' crazy that would have driven us when the Final Five start to here it.

Phenix
March 2nd, 2009, 07:25 PM
Holy frakkin' cow! :eek:

I think Hera is Boomer's and Galen's daughter reborn/ressurrected!

Also. Kara is a cylon! She has to be. How else would she know that song? And....was that guy playing the piano really with her, or just in her mind.....and may be Kara is recalling things from her former past just like a cylon would such as Galen and Boomer? And....may be that piano player is Daniel......and which would mean....Daniel is Kara's father! :eek:

And.....what about Laura?? Did she die?? OMG! I'm freaking out here! I'm so confused. :S

For real? ....... Boomer and Galen's daughter...? yea

Anyway, its obviously Daniel. Kara is half cylon half human.

Xepla
March 2nd, 2009, 07:57 PM
There's still the issue of where the brand-spanking, just off the showroom floor, Viper Mark II came from.

I'd like to see Kara whip out a brand new baseship ! Somebody throw Galactica into the Maelstrom! =p

TheChosen1
March 2nd, 2009, 08:00 PM
Scifi's What the Frak Happened? Recap on "Someone to Watch Over Me"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1pvfxEy05U&feature=related



TheChosen1

HAL2100
March 2nd, 2009, 08:19 PM
Of course, are we forgetting the Anders made the comment that he played the song for someone that he loved. Isn't it possible that Cavil wiped Anders memories sent him back, he hooked up with Kara's mom and voila! Starbuck was born. At some point something happened where he came back under the control of Cavil, either by abduction or killing him/resurrection. Cavil then wiped his memories again and eventually put him back into the Colonies. Bang! Starbuck meets Anders her Daddy issues kick in and she chases after him.

Yes, I realize that there'd be some series Chinatown issues, but then Tyrol fraked Boomer, Tigh fraked a Six and Ellen fracked them all. So what's a little incest between Anders and Starbuck? Its not like they knew and it would tie in nicely with the Greek mythology that's been incorporated already. (Starbuck playing a modified version of Oedipus.)

Naturally I *really* hope this isn't the case, because it'd turn BSG from a Space Opera to a Space Soap Opera. If MadTV were still on they'd have a field day with it.

DetriusXii
March 2nd, 2009, 08:53 PM
Here's my speculation of the abduction of Hera.

Cavil sabotaged the abilities of the final five's and the other significant seven's ability to communicate with the Centurion models. Cavil has ultimate say in the inhibitor chipped Centurions. Daniel realized that he couldn't undue Cavil's Centurion privileges in enough time. If he encountered a significant seven model, a trigger would activate causing the other models to kill him, like Boomer's trigger on Adama. He realized that a Cylon would need to be hidden from Cavil and so he fathered Kera. It's the same reason why Cavil abducted Hera. Hera may learn of the ability to liberate the Cavil centurions. If that happens, it's over for him.

I'm equation Kera's and Hera's ability to communicate with the centurions like an adult and a child learning a language. Hera started with a Cylon parent. She was able to pick up on Cylon broadband communication. The fleet is integrating with the final five, the centurions and raiders, and the rebel significant seven. Over enough time, Hera would become aware of her fluency in Cylon communication. Kara isn't fluent in Cylon because she hasn't been immersed in it. Until now. She's picking up Cylon communication as the Colonials integrate. She hasn't had an opportunity to be immersed in Cylon until up to this point. And that's why she received the memory of Daniel. She's an English-speaking adult learning French whereas Hera started off fluented in both French and English.

garhkal
March 2nd, 2009, 11:20 PM
I agree, What are the chances that Kara would be playing the same song that Not only activated the Final Five, but also the same song that Sam played??? As well as the same song that Hara pretty much drew with crayons on a piece of paper.

I would actually like to have seen the other cylons reaction to that song, as iirc did it not also play just before boomer shot adama?


And the third which I have yet to see anyone mention. Admiral William Adama.

Why Adama? Has anyone notice how when he gets stressed it leans over and there is a expression of discomfort or pain? I know I have noticed it./quote]

That is a valid point. Especially since these days he seems to be the resident drunk in Tigh's place.

[quote]It's possible that we will lose both the ship and laura at the same time, which would fulfill the prophecy without the viewer ever really knowing which one the scrolls were speaking of specifically.

That would be a sick twist if it did happen.


I guess there is still a possibility that Laura is actually dead, considering that the opera house visions centered largely around Hera. Her last word being "Hera.." maybe she DID realize the truth. who knows?

Hmm. If she did figure it out just as she died, what is the point as we will never know unless they do some retconing.


I thought when Starbuck started playing the notes that Hera gave her that it would wake up Sam.

Maybe he was waking up, and that is what those wierd signals we saw on his monitor were.. and they led to 'head piano man'..


Of course, are we forgetting the Anders made the comment that he played the song for someone that he loved. Isn't it possible that Cavil wiped Anders memories sent him back, he hooked up with Kara's mom and voila! Starbuck was born.

Ohh, that would be one heck of a twist.

kharn the betrayer
March 3rd, 2009, 12:00 AM
Being artistic, Daniel was probably way more human than any of the other skinjobs created up to that point.


that and he probably got jealous of him as well

fwupow
March 3rd, 2009, 08:44 AM
This episode had a few surprises for me:

1. Another slow-mover
2. Sharon Agathon was still alive at the end.
3. Cavil wants Hera?

Further proof that Kara's father was the original #7 Cylon model named "Daniel" came as no surprise however.

What does Cavil want? We know that Cavil wants to restore resurrection capability. He probably secretly accepted Ellen's explanation that ALL of the Final Five are needed to do that, so Cavil probably wants Hera just to use her as a lure to get the Final Five in his clutches and bring them back to the "Colony" where the original resurrection equipment still resides. This is likely the Cylon homeworld.

Additionally, Cavil seems to want to be mechanical again.

The Final Five head music (All Along The Watchtower) might be the key to unlocking or activating something, if only somebody can remember how to play the whole thing. Maybe Kara? Maybe Anders, if he gets his wits back?

HAL2100
March 3rd, 2009, 04:41 PM
Additionally, Cavil seems to want to be mechanical again.
He wants to be mechanical? Turn him into a music box with a dancing ballerina on top or a garage door opener.

Rac80
March 4th, 2009, 07:37 AM
<snipped for size>


There is a certain level of irony here. Athena seduced Helo by posing as Boomer on Caprica during the first season. In a way, Athena co-opted a life that could have been Boomer’s. Boomer gets her pound of flesh in this episode, and it is not at all pretty. It’s actually one of the more disturbing moments in the entire series run. Boomer beats Athena to a pulp, essentially forces Athena to watch her sleep with Helo, and then steals Athena’s daughter.

What makes this so crushing is the realization that Boomer has been a victim for so long that her actions must seem justified in her own mind. Boomer’s attempted assassination of Adama was programmed into her (presumably by Cavil). She tried to atone for that mistake in the past, but it always went horribly wrong (particularly the New Caprica experiment, which was clearly undermined by Cavil in retrospect). Boomer ultimately has been used and abused by Cavil in more ways than one can count (including their “affair” on the baseship).

This doesn’t excuse Boomer in the slightest, but it does point to the notion that Boomer is still being used; she’s still not acting out of her own personal agency. Either that will never change, and Boomer will end up being a tragic figure, or the moment that she takes control of her life will be a critical point of the finale.


John Keegan
Reprinted with permission
Original source: c. Critical Myth, 2009
All rights reserved
Link: http://www.criticalmyth.com

I found that part fascinating as well. My hubby was confused as to why Booner would go after Athena and I saw it as being "she is living my life", and boomer was angry.
Excellent episode all around.

fwupow
March 4th, 2009, 10:31 AM
Yeah Boomer certainly seems to be a confused and resentful figure right now.

I don't think that she had any intention to force Athena to watch her make love with Helo. There was a definite hesitancy on her part when Helo entered the washroom and made his intentions clear.

At this point, I think she considered her options and decided that the best way to ensure that her plan would work was to maintain her cover and keep Helo in the dark about her true identity. However, she also likely saw it as a convenient way to add to Athena's torment.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, but facing ten women scorned would likely be safer than facing Athena right now. Boomer's days are numbered if Athena has anything to do about it. One of them is just gonna have to die.

thevarrior
March 4th, 2009, 12:52 PM
It was a slow episode, but it made me feel something in a way I haven't since the miniseries and season 1. It built up and was insanely powerful, and I'm damn glad it aired as a 90000% improvement over the dismal failure that was Deadlock. This really redeemed the show's direction for me, and I can't wait to see where it goes next.

Matt G
March 4th, 2009, 02:40 PM
Hmmmm...

1. OK...we now know that Starbuck has some kind od connection to Earth.

2. Unlucky Chief! :(

More later

Mongoletsi
March 5th, 2009, 09:43 AM
It was a slow episode, but it made me feel something in a way I haven't since the miniseries and season 1. It built up and was insanely powerful, and I'm damn glad it aired as a 90000% improvement over the dismal failure that was Deadlock. This really redeemed the show's direction for me, and I can't wait to see where it goes next.

Agreed. This episode was - for me - up there with the amazing, tense, deep episodes of S1 and S2. It might not be up there with the likes of 33 or The Captain's Hand (two of my favs) but it's still a very well made episode and really begins to tie up some things, leaving us ready for the finale.

hisg1fans
March 5th, 2009, 01:02 PM
I think Starbuck is 'God'. But then, I've always thought Saul Tighe was her Dad. Who knows?

I also think the President became a cylon when Hera's blood was transfused into her. That's why she sees visions.

Poor Galactica. What a sad end for such a good ship. Will it burst apart before they find a planet/ship big enough for everybody? Or will Six and the Chief save it?

I had a wild thought a couple of days ago ....... what if the Galactica time-travelled sometime during one of the jumps. I really hope the writers don't do that as that will be way too 'cliche'. Although, it would solve a lot of the time confusion. As somebody else said, I do hope they get to the 'it has happened before, it will happen again' theme. Ack! Or even worse. Everybody wakes up from a dream (kind of like Matrix). Oy.

STC
March 5th, 2009, 01:42 PM
It would appear to me that Boomer taking Hera was part of a higher plan that Boomer may not realise yet, because i think Hera has a bigger part to play in the final episodes then anyone realises. RDM tends to give hints about almost forgotten characters then runs with them for a few weeks after bringing them back into focus. By sparking our memories of Hera i feel she may be a big part of the last few eps.

As for the dying leader, im pretty confident its not the Goolactica. I have a theory that may be left field for most people but does anyone think it might actually be Starbuck? Based mainly on two things - the its all happened before and will again - she has died once before by the look of things and may have ressurrected and the fact that she led them to earth may fit with a bit of a leap of faith! lol

Just a few thoughts...


Interesting idea. I've not thought of her as the leader, but at this point I don't know what to expect from RDM et al. They continue to surprise me. I have expected it to be Roslin (obvious), Adama (not obvious at first, but he's been looking pretty rocky lately), and finally Lee (when he took over for Roslin I fully expected him to be shot).

akuma07
March 6th, 2009, 07:41 AM
Another talker, wasn't impressed with this episode, especially so close to the end of the serise, I think the talking should be done with and get on with some action.

The only real thing I took from this episode was that the poor Galactica is on her last legs, and about to fall to bits. I wonder if she will make it?

Pharaoh Atem
March 6th, 2009, 02:17 PM
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo184/paulm84/ProfessorFrink1.gif

to go :(

Pharaoh Atem
April 10th, 2009, 10:06 AM
Ha, totally called Kara playing the Cylon tune.

I was going "play the song, play the song, play the song" as she started, and BAM! There it was. Very cool scene, that one.
.

indeed it was

All along the thrace tower was awesome.