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GateWorld
February 2nd, 2009, 05:37 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/4141.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">BATTLESTAR GALACTICA SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">BLOOD ON THE SCALES</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 414</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Gaeta and Zarek attempt to put Admiral Adama on trial to legitimize their coup, while President Roslin flees to the rebel base ship. Those loyal to Adama try and retake the ship.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Finger13
February 6th, 2009, 07:20 PM
Amazing episode. I loved Adama's posse taking back the CIC.

Poor Felix, I felt bad for him at the end. He stayed logical the whole way through the revolution (for the most part), and by the end had completely accepted his fate which was noble.

Zarek deserved the bullet, glad he's finally dead after 4 seasons of being a pain.

Poor Anders. But the preview for next week looks amazing, if his memory really did return.

Good to see Adama back in command. And I love how they managed to wrap up this entire coup in two episodes yet still made it believable and well-paced.

And the Quorom all get shot once they stand up for themselves hahaha, ironic. I actually felt proud of them for once... I wonder what will happen to the Quorom now that Lee is the only surviving member?

But ahh what an amazing episode, I wish this series would never end. But knowing that there are only a handful of episodes left makes them all the better.

And it was interesting to see the FTL drive eh? Quite the contraption.

And Roslin freaking out on Zarek was epic! "I'll fight you with every cannon and bomb at my disposal, right down to my teeth!"

BigGator5
February 6th, 2009, 07:21 PM
Is it just me or did I just watched the best hour of TV, EVER?

HAL2100
February 6th, 2009, 07:23 PM
SPOILERS PLEASE!

People! Give me all the scoop! I don't have cable and have to wait till its on iTunes tommorrow to download and watch it.

YES! I'm a junkie.

Arative
February 6th, 2009, 07:23 PM
Great episode. Roslin saying she's coming for Gaeta and Zarek. Then Adama walking to the CiC surrounded by loyal people. That was the best scene. My only complaints are that Adama didn't blow Gaeta away as soon as he walked into the CiC and it seems like once again everyone is forgiven except for the ring leaders. Ending was good but I really wanted Adama to execute Gaeta personally. I was half thinking that they were going to drag it out another week, with the final scene being Adama standing in the launch tube

KhaosNite13
February 6th, 2009, 07:23 PM
Gaeta: *Scratches leg* It's gone.
*Boom*
Gaeta: *Is dead*

How's that for perfect timing? To finally lose that crazy and irritating ghost limb feeling, and then you get shot.

Best parts: Romo's pen stabbing, and above.

rarocks24
February 6th, 2009, 07:25 PM
Any minute sympathy I had for the Resistance died with the massacre of the Quorum.

It's funny, they accuse Roslin of authoritarianism, but when Zarek sees the pendulum swing not in his favor, he murders them. As much of a pain in the ass the Quorum's been since the beginning...

They didn't deserve that.

the fifth man
February 6th, 2009, 07:26 PM
This was such an amazing episode. From start to finish, this was definitely one of BSG's finest hours. I really think this show is going to go out strong. Gaeta and Zarek definitely deserved what they got in the end.

Chev's Ron
February 6th, 2009, 07:26 PM
Amazing, glad that Adama got to kick some ass, though I was suprised that they didn't show more of the "pro-adama" personell fighting last episode, and that they waited until the end.

The Quarom of 12... is no more, I doubt new leaders will be elected before the series ends. When the shot of the two marines outside the quarom met my eyes, a chill went down my spine and I dreaded what happened next.

As for the chief, I honestly thought he might die in the episode (in the FTL room ((which we saw for the first time today btw)). Glad to see that he made it.

Hotdog = smart dog

Zarek can kiss my ass, I hope he rots in BSG's version of hell or oblivion.

When Gaeta and Baltar were conversing, I almost expected them to "reveal" certain... feelings for each other, though I could tell by the conversation that Gaeta was about to be shot.

Next weeks promo looks nice!

tech100
February 6th, 2009, 07:27 PM
Another good episode

Its interesting how Geeta told Zarek after he had the Quorom shot "This is not what I signed up for." Geeta's Mutiny killed many on Galatica. But towards then end I think he realized that he got in over his head.

I wounder if Zarek kills the Quorom with out thinking about it then would it be safe to assume that Zarek would kill/replace Geeta if he didn't fall into line.

rarocks24
February 6th, 2009, 07:29 PM
Kind of funny though that the same Marines that were about to execute Adama were the same ones that helped him retake the ship.

STC
February 6th, 2009, 07:31 PM
FABULOUS!!! FABULOUS!!

I was on the edge of my seat for the whole hour; I did not believe how cold blooded Gaeta could be nor how ruthless Zarek would be when pushed. The revolution ended almost as quickly as it started.

The Quorum, Zarek and Gaeta!! I'm still a little shocked about how quickly Gaeta turned anarchist, but Zarek always was a lurking little rat, so I'm not disappointed he's dead.

Looks like Anders survives and lives to give Kara more info, yet again about what the answers are. We see the re-birth or downloading of another female Cylon, and I'm thinking it looks a lot like Six or Ellen (as we've been told she's the 5th). But.......

I can't help wishing that the identity of the 5th is really someone else. I am disappointed that Ron Moore gave up that info so easily!! Maybe it's a red herring??

Finger13
February 6th, 2009, 07:31 PM
SPOILERS PLEASE!

People! Give me all the scoop! I don't have cable and have to wait till its on iTunes tommorrow to download and watch it.

YES! I'm a junkie.


- Zarek executes the Quorom of Twelve after they refuse to acknowledge him as the President. Lee is the only surviving member.
- Roslin and Baltar make it to the basestar, the Cylons are considering jumping away without the fleet but Roslin convinces them to stay.
- Gaeta is repulsed by Zarek's methods, but he does condone the execution of Adama and orders it willingly.
- Adama is held in a trial (with Zarek as the judge, obviously not a trial at all). Adama refuses to play along.
- The people being held in the brig are let out by Lee and Kara.
- Adama is saved from the execution squad by Lee and Tigh with others (including Kelly, remember him? Trying to kill Baltar back in Season 3?)
- Gaeta orders Galactica to jump and only give the coordinates to ships willing who support them. 10 ships take their FTL drives offline.
- Tyrol disables the FTL before the Galactica can jump. Gaeta realizes it's over while Zarek fights to escalate things even further, still thinking that something can be done. He obviously loses the support of the crew at this point.
- Gaeta orders the ship to stand down, then Adama's posse takes back the CIC and reestablishes control, and contacts the base star that Galactica has been secured.
- The episode ends with Gaeta and Zarek in the launch tube where Adama was, and they are executed on Adama's command.
- Gaeta accepts his fate, and just before he's killed his leg stops itching.

ToasterOnFire
February 6th, 2009, 07:33 PM
I was pretty shocked when Zarek had the quorum killed, but not all that surprised if that makes any sense. Wow, the quorum finally gets a backbone...and gets gunned down for their troubles. I don't know why Zarek even bothered allowing Gaeta that joke of a trial for Adama instead of just shooting him too. The dream execution was pretty obvious (and did I miss something or did Baltar waste no time getting it on with the six or what? jeez! :D)

The scene with Baltar and Gaeta was great.

Roslin was a little OTT for me, though it would have been funny/tragic if she had smacked Galactica around thinking Adama was dead. And with Galactica's stress fractures it may have not even held up if it had gone into battle with the basestar.

Damn funny to see Lampkin back, especially to see him pull a Gatea and pen that guard to death.

I don't know who the guy was who joked with and almost shot Tyrol or the guy who was weeping before going with the group to save Adama. Any help?

Doesn't look good for Anders...

I'm chewing over the symbolism of Gaeta's stump pain and why it went away right before he was shot.

Espeon1962
February 6th, 2009, 07:35 PM
Warning spoilers in my comments which you should not read if you have not yet seen this weeks show!!

Awesome episode, had me on the edge of my seat the whole time. I curse that where I live it is not in HD. It was funny that Tyrol was wandering around the entire time in the tunnels, and as we were getting towards the end, I was wondering if the writers joke was going to be that he ended up missing everything. But I think as well, after he pulled the drive he found something - is it that the ship is damaged? I only saw the scene the once, but it looked to me like the hull was cracking open in the engine room area. The FTL drive was cool.

I also liked how shocked everyone on the basestar looked when they were told Adama was dead. Just total disbelief. I was nice to see Baltar own up to the fact he had to go back and stand by his flock. There were so many great moments in this episode - super acting - damn scifi for putting the kybosh to this series.

the missing 7
February 6th, 2009, 07:36 PM
I'm chewing over the symbolism of Gaeta's stump pain and why it went away right before he was shot.

irony

Corona
February 6th, 2009, 07:37 PM
Killer episode!

What did Chief see on the bulkhead after he disabled the FTL. Cracks?

I would really like to see the bodies of Zarek and Gaeta. Just to make sure they're really dead. No bs!

It sure looks like their is another resurection chamber left, doesn't it. Or was that an Ellen flashback?

STC
February 6th, 2009, 07:38 PM
I'm chewing over the symbolism of Gaeta's stump pain and why it went away right before he was shot.

yes there is a whole lotta irony in that moment!!

rarocks24
February 6th, 2009, 07:41 PM
Killer episode!

What did Chief see on the bulkhead after he disabled the FTL. Cracks?

I would really like to see the bodies of Zarek and Gaeta. Just to make sure they're really dead. No bs!

It sure looks like their is another resurection chamber left, doesn't it. Or was that an Ellen flashback?

Stress fractures. The ship is breaking apart. Hence my belief that it is not Roslin but Galactica herself that is the dying leader meant to lead the masses to the promised land, not Roslin.

STC
February 6th, 2009, 07:42 PM
It sure looks like their is another resurection chamber left, doesn't it. Or was that an Ellen flashback?

Could be a memory, BSG writers seem to insert that detail often. Could be an Anders memory. He seems to know all and wants to reveal all to Kara.

Just had a thought............that character was blonde. Could it be Kara??
Everybody keeps forgetting the minor fact that she's found 'her body' on Earth. Maybe the Kara we now know is the one in the reserrection chamber.

Arative
February 6th, 2009, 07:43 PM
I don't know who the guy was who joked with and almost shot Tyrol or the guy who was weeping before going with the group to save Adama. Any help?

.

That was Kelly he's been around since the mini-series. He was the guy that was trying to kill Baltar at the end of season 3 and has been in the brig since.

rarocks24
February 6th, 2009, 07:44 PM
Could be a memory, BSG writers seem to insert that detail often. Could be an Anders memory. He seems to know all and wants to reveal all to Kara.

Just had a thought............that character was blonde. Could it be Kara??
Everybody keeps forgetting the minor fact that she's found 'her body' on Earth. Maybe the Kara we now know is the one in the reserrection chamber.
Looked too old to be Kara. Pretty sure that's Ellen.

HAL2100
February 6th, 2009, 07:44 PM
Damn! I wish I had cable. From the sounds of it, it might have been better if Adama had just shot Gaeta and Zarek right in the forehead without any warning.

Chev's Ron
February 6th, 2009, 07:45 PM
Maybe the Kara we now know is the one in the reserrection chamber.

I compared a still of the resurrection chamber cylon and Ellen, it was Ellen in the chamber.

STC
February 6th, 2009, 07:45 PM
Stress fractures. The ship is breaking apart. Hence my belief that it is not Roslin but Galactica herself that is the dying leader meant to lead the masses to the promised land, not Roslin.

Interesting idea. I never thought of 'the dying leader' could mean the ship but what a novel thought.

Course now I'm thinking the ship's going to give out before they get to a new homeworld!!

the missing 7
February 6th, 2009, 07:45 PM
Looked too old to be Kara. Pretty sure that's Ellen.

it was it' said the "final cylon returns" and "she knows the truth" in the america preview

the fifth man
February 6th, 2009, 07:45 PM
Stress fractures. The ship is breaking apart. Hence my belief that it is not Roslin but Galactica herself that is the dying leader meant to lead the masses to the promised land, not Roslin.

That very well could be the case.

Sue_Jackson
February 6th, 2009, 07:46 PM
Holy mind frak! :eek: What an episode! This show just gets better and better!

Glad to see Kara and Lee teaming up again. Love seeing Lee in action! Yes! Hope Lee gets back into the military where he belongs.

Omigosh!! Was totally shocked when those people were murdered by Zarek's order.

Bill Adama ROCKS! He IS Admiral Adama! He knows how to command fleet. Love seeing Bill and Lee together along with Kara and the others. Love how they took back the ship. For awhile there....I did fear that Bill was gonna die. But.....I guess they can't kill off a main character. At least....not yet. I sure was on the edge of my seat.

Laura was amazing as well in this! Love the fight she gave.

So.....Zarek and Gaeta executed. Not sad to see them go.

Looks like they will finally get that Cylon alliance.

Next week's ep sounds cool! So Ellen IS the final Cylon! :D

Arative
February 6th, 2009, 07:46 PM
Damn! I wish I had cable. From the sounds of it, it might have been better if Adama had just shot Gaeta and Zarek right in the forehead without any warning.

I think that would have been best. At least Adama killing Gaeta but it did turn out very good.

toxsic
February 6th, 2009, 07:47 PM
Looked too old to be Kara. Pretty sure that's Ellen.

it is definitely Ellen. the preview for next week showed a clip of when Tigh killed Ellen back on New Caprica and then the bold letters came up and said something like "the final cylon...lost for 18 months...finally returns"

STC
February 6th, 2009, 07:50 PM
I compared a still of the resurrection chamber cylon and Ellen, it was Ellen in the chamber.

Well so much for an original idea. I really don't want the 5th to be Ellen; I just think RM gave that up too easily, and would prefer to think we're being misled. Unfortunately I'm fresh out of ideas.

Arative
February 6th, 2009, 07:51 PM
That very well could be the case.

I don't think that is the case. I think the ship falling apart is a for humanity falling apart. Kelly said it best when he was talking with Tyrol, that this ship used to mean something. Humanity has fallen farther and farther from civilization, and the are using Galatica to represent that.

rarocks24
February 6th, 2009, 07:51 PM
it was it' said the "final cylon returns" and "she knows the truth" in the america preview

Yes, I know. That was why I got confused, because I don't recall Anders being in the preview...

Unless he was in the Canadian preview.

Corona
February 6th, 2009, 07:53 PM
Who was Baltar sleeping with btw?

Arative
February 6th, 2009, 07:54 PM
Who was Baltar sleeping with btw?

A really hot looking 6!

rarocks24
February 6th, 2009, 07:54 PM
I don't think that is the case. I think the ship falling apart is a for humanity falling apart. Kelly said it best when he was talking with Tyrol, that this ship used to mean something. Humanity has fallen farther and farther from civilization, and the are using Galatica to represent that.

Could be both. Galactica is ferrying the survivors from the twelve colonies from the last stage of humanity that fell apart, into its new stage of existence. Its never supposed to see when the next cycle begins. The falling apart represents the final ailing chapter of the previous cycle.


A really hot looking 6!

God was she hot...

HAL2100
February 6th, 2009, 07:55 PM
Actually, i would have liked to have seen Adama just flat out shoot Gaeta right between the eyes and then Mom grabs the gun while everyone (including) Zarek is in shock and shoots him.

STC
February 6th, 2009, 07:55 PM
it is definitely Ellen. the preview for next week showed a clip of when Tigh killed Ellen back on New Caprica and then the bold letters came up and said something like "the final cylon...lost for 18 months...finally returns"


Just looked at my tape of the episode againl; yes Ellen is definitely in next weeks episode. We get different previews that you do; the preview on SPACE showed Ellen, a resurection chamber, Anders and Kara in sick bay talking, Adama etc, but nothing about 'the final cylon ...."

damn.

Finger13
February 6th, 2009, 07:58 PM
Yes, I know. That was why I got confused, because I don't recall Anders being in the preview...

Unless he was in the Canadian preview.

Anders was on the Space preview saying that his memory had returned, and that he remembered everything. Earth, why he was there, etc.

STC
February 6th, 2009, 08:00 PM
Yes, I know. That was why I got confused, because I don't recall Anders being in the preview...

Unless he was in the Canadian preview.

Yup he was! Apparently he survives being shot to have a conversation with Kara in sickbay. He's telling he remembers everything and that she should get everyone together. He knows why we're here.......

Arative
February 6th, 2009, 08:01 PM
Could be both. Galactica is ferrying the survivors from the twelve colonies from the last stage of humanity that fell apart, into its new stage of existence. Its never supposed to see when the next cycle begins. The falling apart represents the final ailing chapter of the previous cycle.
.

That's possible. I'm just not sure I would classify Galatica as a leader.

rarocks24
February 6th, 2009, 08:03 PM
Anyone know where I can see the Space preview?

the missing 7
February 6th, 2009, 08:04 PM
A really hot looking 6!

a version of Natalie

HAL2100
February 6th, 2009, 08:04 PM
Yup he was! Apparently he survives being shot to have a conversation with Kara in sickbay. He's telling he remembers everything and that she should get everyone together. He knows why we're here.......

...and then the producers & writers of LOST take over the show and that simple answer gets pushed back till the very end.

If I win the lottery, I'd finance a movie that pokes fun at LOST where the entire two hours of the movie is nothing but people saying things like "We have to go now. We don't have time to discuss this." and other delaying tactics only to discover at the very end that...


The whole point of the movie was to get to little johnny's birthday party with the cake that somebody forgot to pickup or something stupid like that that anyone could have just as easily said in two minutes.

Corona
February 6th, 2009, 08:07 PM
I need a screencap of six with Baltar. It just didn't look like her.

STC
February 6th, 2009, 08:11 PM
...and then the producers & writers of LOST take over the show and that simple answer gets pushed back till the very end.

If I win the lottery, I'd finance a movie that pokes fun at LOST where the entire two hours of the movie is nothing but people saying things like "We have to go now. We don't have time to discuss this." and other delaying tactics only to discover at the very end that...



LOL! I lost interest in that show a long time ago. I wasn't too fond of BSG in the first year, but I've been hooked since the second season. I wouldn't take RN and DE seriously again if they don't have a big logical finish to this series.

Note the final episode is 3 hours, so as James Callis said in a SPACE preview: "Everything is beautifully stitched together..." so I'm eagerly anticipating resolution on all story lines.

the missing 7
February 6th, 2009, 08:12 PM
I need a screencap of six with Baltar. It just didn't look like her.

http://io9.com/photogallery/wheresroslin/1006643076

HAL2100
February 6th, 2009, 08:16 PM
LOL! I lost interest in that show a long time ago. I wasn't too fond of BSG in the first year, but I've been hooked since the second season. I wouldn't take RN and DE seriously again if they don't have a big logical finish to this series.

Note the final episode is 3 hours, so as James Callis said in a SPACE preview: "Everything is beautifully stitched together..." so I'm eagerly anticipating resolution on all story lines.

I seem to have read somewhere that god has stated that not everything will be neccessarily wrapped up...that there may be a few questions left. Or that we get answers to questions, but they only raise more questions.

Shan Bruce Lee
February 6th, 2009, 08:18 PM
The whole episode felt contrived to me. Especially the part where they're about to execute Adama and all of a sudden the small team of main characters have somehow managed to overwhelm an entire squad of marines.

I thought the invinicle Kara scene last week was bad but they didn't even bother trying to show how this could even be possible this time. It reminded me of Martin in SG-1 talking about the team getting from the cliff to the gate without ever showing it.

Arative
February 6th, 2009, 08:21 PM
I like how the most sensible people in the fleet were the Cylons but I think that is because unlike the human's who are basically turning wild, the Cylons are either trying to be human or regain their humanity in the case of the final 4.

Replicator Todd
February 6th, 2009, 08:26 PM
Not as great as the Oath but it was excellent seeing the re-take of the ship. I'm suprised they actually executed both Gaeta and Zareck, but in the end they did diserve it.

alaskannut
February 6th, 2009, 08:28 PM
SPOILERS PLEASE!

People! Give me all the scoop! I don't have cable and have to wait till its on iTunes tommorrow to download and watch it.

YES! I'm a junkie.
Full episode recap here: http://www.patriotresource.com/bg/episodes/414.html

Enjoy:)

Corona
February 6th, 2009, 08:31 PM
http://io9.com/photogallery/wheresroslin/1006643076

Thank you.

I still think that doesn't look like Six. Maybe it was the light and camera angle.

Jonas
February 6th, 2009, 08:43 PM
I was confused by the Six too. At first I though it was Head Six, but in a different form. We've seen her look different before. Plus Baltar seemed surprised by her, But then she didnt seem like Head Six at all so I don't think it was.

STC
February 6th, 2009, 08:56 PM
I was confused by the Six too. At first I though it was Head Six, but in a different form. We've seen her look different before. Plus Baltar seemed surprised by her, But then she didnt seem like Head Six at all so I don't think it was.


That was the natalie model; don't know her model number. Anyone??

Finger13
February 6th, 2009, 09:02 PM
That was the natalie model; don't know her model number. Anyone??

Natalie is still a 6. She just looks different.

There was a black haired 6 on the baseship that got that virus too.

Bruman
February 6th, 2009, 09:05 PM
Yes, I really liked the Natalie model. She's smokin' hot! Head six is hot too, but Natalie six seems more approachable.

But it's also kinda interesting to figure out what his relationship is to that six. The six he was involved with on Caprica is now pregnant with Tigh's baby (or someone's). Does this other six have Caprica Six's memories? Will Caprica Six be jealous of Natalie-like six (or vice versa)? What exactly are the rules of cylon sexuality?

Actually it's Head Six that seems to be the most jealous. Caprica six is attached and concerned, but doesn't seem prone to fits of jealousy. Head six is (or was, in the first season).

GateTrek2004
February 6th, 2009, 09:05 PM
"I'M COMING FOR ALL OF YOU!"

The best line Laura EVER says! These past 2 episodes are the best episodes i've seen! I was hoping that it would go on for another week, but its good they wrapped it up in the way they did. The ending: are they dead or was it a dream baltar had? I hope the former!

OH MY FRAKKING GODS! The promo for next week's episode is awesome! I'm counting down the seconds to next weeks episode!!!!!

lunarleviathan
February 6th, 2009, 09:46 PM
That
was
wild
.

Detox
February 6th, 2009, 10:18 PM
That was an EPIC episode. By far the best one to date.

That scene with Adama surrounded by crew and marines, marching towards the CIC was just soooo perfect.

Detox
February 6th, 2009, 10:18 PM
That was an EPIC episode. By far the best one to date.

That scene with Adama surrounded by crew and marines, marching towards the CIC was just soooo perfect.

Browncoat1984
February 6th, 2009, 10:23 PM
An amazing episode. I'm surprised nobody mentioned it, but in the scene where Gaeta and Baltar are talking, Baltar says something along the line that he knows who Gaeta is...does anybody know what he means by that? Is there something about Gaeta that hasn't been revealed yet or I missed (and I've seen every episode, including the webisodes).

Interesting theory about Galactica being the dying leader. I can't wait until everything is done to be able to watch through the entire series (+ The Plan & Razor) straight through with no breaks. It'll be like watching Babylon 5 through from start to finish with no breaks, an amazing story.

wontgetfooledagain
February 6th, 2009, 10:32 PM
Is it just me or did I just watched the best hour of TV, EVER?
It's not just you.

As for the chief, I honestly thought he might die in the episode (in the FTL room ((which we saw for the first time today btw)). Glad to see that he made it.
Yeah, I was almost sure he was going to pull a Spock. "The good of the many..."

Looks like Anders survives and lives to give Kara more info, yet again about what the answers are. We see the re-birth or downloading of another female Cylon, and I'm thinking it looks a lot like Six or Ellen (as we've been told she's the 5th). But.......

I can't help wishing that the identity of the 5th is really someone else. I am disappointed that Ron Moore gave up that info so easily!! Maybe it's a red herring??

Well so much for an original idea. I really don't want the 5th to be Ellen; I just think RM gave that up too easily, and would prefer to think we're being misled. Unfortunately I'm fresh out of ideas.
I agree. Even to the end, I've wished that Gaeta would be a Cylon. He would have made a really frakking good Cylon.

That's possible. I'm just not sure I would classify Galatica as a leader.
Each ship in the fleet has a purpose. There is a tylium ship, Colonial One houses the politicians and their aides, and so on. Since it has the guns, does Galactica not lead the way?

I have to say, I love that Adama took back his ship, but I am a little disappointed that either he or Tigh didn't die. I want someone really big to die before the series is done so that we can have a bit of realism. Then maybe we could finally say that BSG is like "Dostoevsky in space."

Back40
February 6th, 2009, 10:33 PM
Stress fractures. The ship is breaking apart. Hence my belief that it is not Roslin but Galactica herself that is the dying leader meant to lead the masses to the promised land, not Roslin.

Now THAT'S an interesting theory....led by serpents 2 and 10 (Vipers), leads the caravan of the heavens to a new home land but suffers from a wasting illness and will not live to see the new land....

That's a VERY interesting theory....:tealcanime49:

Detox
February 6th, 2009, 10:35 PM
Huh, I just looked back at the survivor count in the opening. Only 40 people died during the rebellion. That's not a lot at all.

Back40
February 6th, 2009, 10:37 PM
I have to say, I love that Adama took back his ship, but I am a little disappointed that either he or Tigh didn't die. I want someone really big to die before the series is done so that we can have a bit of realism. Then maybe we could finally say that BSG is like "Dostoevsky in space."

There are still 6 episodes left (7 if you count the extended epis), lots of time to kill off the big names at the rate they're dying in the last 4 episodes. :)

wontgetfooledagain
February 6th, 2009, 10:42 PM
There are still 6 episodes left (7 if you count the extended epis), lots of time to kill off the big names at the rate they're dying in the last 4 episodes. :)
True, but it is hard to see how they will with the rebellion quelled. Though, the rest of the Cylon fleet is due to come back sometime soon.

mr_kennedy
February 6th, 2009, 10:57 PM
awesome episode 10/10 probably one of the best episodes of the entire show

what i liked

the anders scar (that was because of his car crash)
the coup was resolved in only 2 episodes yet belieable
kara/anders
gelen almost being the chief again :D
the qurom is gone :D, no more annoying qurom yay
romo lumkin
roslins rant i frakking loved that, she has easily become my 2nd favorite character great actress
lee kicked ass
adama's rant
gaeta coming to his senses and accepting what he had done

there was not a single thing that i hated about this episode

i wonder if lee will be the vice president now? being the only surviving member of the qurom, and it gives them the excuse to add another title to his already illustrias carreer

the one thing i picked up on, was how kara was mentioned when listing the cylons onboard galactica, is she no.7?


Gaeta: *Scratches leg* It's gone.
*Boom*
Gaeta: *Is dead*

How's that for perfect timing? To finally lose that crazy and irritating ghost limb feeling, and then you get shot.

Best parts: Romo's pen stabbing, and above.

the pen is indeed mightier then the sword :rolleyes:

Finger13
February 6th, 2009, 11:00 PM
Huh, I just looked back at the survivor count in the opening. Only 40 people died during the rebellion. That's not a lot at all.

I can't see that being right. The Quorum of Twelve are dead, minus Lee, so there is 11. We saw at least a dozen people dead in the hallways. Starbuck and Lee took out more than half a dozen people alone. Zarek and Gaeta are gone. That Marine that Adama shot.

Maybe they just screwed up the count, because judging from the constant gunfire that was going on for the whole time, I would put the casualties in the hundreds.

Detox
February 6th, 2009, 11:05 PM
I can't see that being right. The Quorum of Twelve are dead, minus Lee, so there is 11. We saw at least a dozen people dead in the hallways. Starbuck and Lee took out more than half a dozen people alone. Zarek and Gaeta are gone. That Marine that Adama shot.

Maybe they just screwed up the count, because judging from the constant gunfire that was going on for the whole time, I would put the casualties in the hundreds.

The deaths in the Blood On The Scales doesn't count yet. It's only the changes from the last episodes.

Wayston
February 7th, 2009, 12:58 AM
It felt a bit artificial to have laura on the base ship pretty much bossing the cylons around; if I were a cylon there I'd have told her to STFU to be honest

as for the death count... well the entire revolution only seems to last for the better part of a day, but I agree that 40 seems low

I do think the mutineers did not have as much support as it might have looked from the first episode; for example there had to be marines posted inside the CIC to keep the CIC personnel obeying orders and romo lampkin got in two firefights while being escorted through the ship; the cylon prisoners were freed with relative ease and it looked like they didn't send out any men to the location as the marine passing through that section (coming from the location of the two ringleaders of the revolution nonetheless!) with romo lampkin did not seem to know about the situation until he found out with his face; they didn't even post personnel/guards in the FTL section yet they should have known this would be a prime target for any cylon sympathisers or adama loyalists; so they were essentially in control of most strategic spots of the ship and were able to project power inside particular areas of the ship by sending out mutineering marines, but they did not control the entire ship as such

many people were probably like hotdog, carrying out orders without knowing exactly what is going on and only starting to think about it when confronted with fishy orders

brthur
February 7th, 2009, 01:25 AM
Poor Anders. But the preview for next week ...

Well, now, thank you very much. Some of us do not watch the previews and for a frakking reason.

daniel9
February 7th, 2009, 01:25 AM
lol the other resurrection ship that ellen pops up from is probably where cavil is

brthur
February 7th, 2009, 01:27 AM
Best parts: Romo's pen stabbing, and above.

Hehe, i thought "Never underestimate the power of a pen"

brthur
February 7th, 2009, 01:33 AM
Amazing, glad that Adama got to kick some ass, though I was suprised that they didn't show more of the "pro-adama" personell fighting last episode, and that they waited until the end.

I was really surprised how they overwhelmed the execution squad without casualties and then pulled them over to their side, just like that. Didn't Gaeta demand reliable ones for that job?



As for the chief, I honestly thought he might die in the episode (in the FTL room ((which we saw for the first time today btw)). Glad to see that he made it.

What was that he was looking at at the end? Tears in Galactica's hull? Is she wearing down and must be abandoned? Would be a shame...

metabog
February 7th, 2009, 02:38 AM
Man these past few episodes have been... whew... oh man...

I was basically going like YEAHAHAHH YAAAHH OMG!! TAKE THAT!! and then I was like OH NOESS...

But then I lolled.

smortt
February 7th, 2009, 03:51 AM
I'm just not sure I would classify Galatica as a leader.

hey it's not Farscape!

Easter Lily
February 7th, 2009, 03:57 AM
Forgive me if I don't hand out the hyperboles on this one. It was good, some solid acting but at the core of it, it felt like a case of "been there, done that." While I enjoyed the drama in this, there was something about the insurrection that felt unconvincing. Perhaps it was Gaeta... being rather half-hearted about it and then deciding in the end that it wasn't worth spilling more blood over a near-hopeless cause, decides to pull the plug. Sort of like the bullied kid trying to make a statement by shooting up the classroom and realises to his utmost horror that he's in way over his head. I think his comment to Baltar about wanting people to know who he was bears that out. Furthermore, it seems like many of his lackeys were similarly half-hearted in their efforts.

I think the show runners were right to highlight the bubbling malcontent in the fleet. It's realistic to imagine that this cooperation with the Cylons would be unpopular in many quarters. The premise was good but perhaps the execution left much to be desired. One thing that bothered me about the last few episodes was the whole arc with Roslin abdicating her responsibility as President and leaving Adama carrying the bag. It felt a little contrived... a little out of character perhaps and more of a plot device to allow Zarek to take control of the Quorum and make elements of the fleet ripe for the coup.

Despite all that, there were entertaining bits in the double. Bringing in Badger... I mean Mark Sheppard... was a nice touch. (He's rather ubiquitous these days -- NCIS, Leverage -- good for him, good for us) Lee and Kara working together again as a team was great, something that I've sorely missed. And Baltar... developing a conscience... wow... will wonders never cease. ;)

Back40
February 7th, 2009, 04:04 AM
I was really surprised how they overwhelmed the execution squad without casualties and then pulled them over to their side, just like that. Didn't Gaeta demand reliable ones for that job?

Yes, but they were taking orders from a man (Narcho) who really didn't want to execute the Admiral. He stated to the Admiral afterwards that he really respected him but he hated Cylons and just couldn't take orders from a man who would work with them. Probably not too hard to convince him to give up and the squad would have followed his orders.

peragrin
February 7th, 2009, 04:16 AM
That episode was sheer awesome.

Adama didn't shoot zareck and gaeta right away because that isn't his way. he is a soldier with honor. remember he didn't vote to convict baltar even though he knew he was guilty of something.

I saw Zareck walk out of the quorom and two soldiers and i knew what was next.

I am torn, is Galactica falling apart, or is their a hidden chamber in galactica with a resurrection point. all you need is a glowing bath. Ellen has to come back some how.

it could be both.

omgpix
February 7th, 2009, 04:17 AM
I was happy to see Zareck go, he was a scumbag start to finish. Gaeta .... he deserved to die but I wish him well, what a complete tragedy.

knowles2
February 7th, 2009, 04:32 AM
Brilliant, entertaining non sleeep inducing episode and it the second one in a role, wow the writers are streaching themselves, wonder if they do a third.

The story good.

Galactica is now my favourite for dyeing leader role.

Thought adama little gang retaking the cic should encountered some resistance through, especially Zarek couple of loyal marines who wiped out the quorime(sp?).

I love that after four freaking seasons we finally seen the engine rooms. Hopefully we will see more in the future as they try to repair Galactica .

I love the old throw genade without pulling the ping trick they use to take out those marines.

My only complaint is that their was not a dog fight between the two vipers, the pilot disobey order seemed of been forgotten. I also thought that the loyal members of the fleet should of came to Roslin rescue instead of some viper pilot.

Makk
February 7th, 2009, 04:58 AM
So how many marines and military personnel does Galactica really have? You'd think that most of them were split between the gang Adama pulled together at the end and the people in the CIC.. but that wasn't all that many.

And those Marines that were about to shoot Adama turned back to Adama's side very quickly... (that's the only thing I didn't quite buy).

huntress
February 7th, 2009, 05:11 AM
It felt a bit artificial to have laura on the base ship pretty much bossing the cylons around; if I were a cylon there I'd have told her to STFU to be honest



She didn't boss them around. Not really. She was just really desperate. Everything was falling apart with Zarek and Felix doing their little revolution and she had no clue if Bill was alive or not. Those Cylons are very insecure. They have lost the ability to resurrect and suddenly they are very vulnerable and in a way much easier scared then the normal humans. Laura didn't so much as boss them around but also calmed them down. she knows that the Cylons are needed. I loved how Leoben figured out how to circumvent the communications block from Gaeta :)

daniel9
February 7th, 2009, 05:16 AM
when baltar told gaeta that he knew who he was. it was pretty obvious what he meant. it was like what he said at the end of exodus part2. he told gaeta that he was an idealist. and everything gaeta said to baltar in this ep about the restaurants and such went right along with that premise.

rarocks24
February 7th, 2009, 05:39 AM
And those Marines that were about to shoot Adama turned back to Adama's side very quickly... (that's the only thing I didn't quite buy).

Adama and his men spared their lives. Among anything, they were just lucky they didn't get shot and flushed out. It seemed as if the entire point of the episode was that not everyone was really thinking things through. Even Narcho got spared getting shot by Adama.

omgpix
February 7th, 2009, 06:28 AM
The way the camera panned out, it wasn't clear to me: Did the meeting with Baltar actually transpire, or did Gaeta just make peace in his mind?

I'm leaning towards the latter.

lunarleviathan
February 7th, 2009, 06:54 AM
The way the camera panned out, it wasn't clear to me: Did the meeting with Baltar actually transpire, or did Gaeta just make peace in his mind?

I'm leaning towards the latter.

Interesting. I had assumed it was either cut that was for time, or was a memory of a prior conversation. I'd buy that it was in his head, after all at one point Gaeta looked up to Baltar.

SG1Commander
February 7th, 2009, 07:01 AM
Could be a memory, BSG writers seem to insert that detail often. Could be an Anders memory. He seems to know all and wants to reveal all to Kara.

Just had a thought............that character was blonde. Could it be Kara??
Everybody keeps forgetting the minor fact that she's found 'her body' on Earth. Maybe the Kara we now know is the one in the reserrection chamber.

Nope...It was definetly Ellen.

knowles2
February 7th, 2009, 07:05 AM
The way the camera panned out, it wasn't clear to me: Did the meeting with Baltar actually transpire, or did Gaeta just make peace in his mind?

I'm leaning towards the latter.

I am not sure myself. Hopefully we will get an answer in the next episode.

Bruman
February 7th, 2009, 07:21 AM
I'm wondering if the execution of Zarek and Gaeta was real. Gaeta is supposed to be on board until ep 418 (four more from here). It could be that he just appears in flashbacks, it could all be a grand deception, or it could be that there is more to happen to Gaeta before he dies. I don't see how Gaeta and Zarek could survive long term, but maybe they weren't shot just yet...

I was just appalled when Zarek shot the Quorum. He walked out and the marine guards were there, and I could just feel it coming, and thought, "no, he couldn't do that." OMG, he did!

Gaeta was an idealist. He started the mutiny because he wanted to do some kind of "restore human control" of the situation, which is something we could think is good - or at least understand. Then he teamed up with Zarek to do it, saw the brutality that he himself had started and let get out of control, and eventually just gave up because this wasn't turning out to be the ideal he was trying to construct. He had tried to get involved in making things better, and it had turned out almost as badly as New Caprica. He just packed it in after that.

I feel just a little sorry for Gaeta. He had essentially respectable motives, but was politically naive and dark forces walked in and took control through the door he opened.

I was surprised that the marines in CIC didn't start shooting as Adama walked in. Perhaps they were confused because of still mixed loyalties, or they could see they were outnumbered.

Replicator Todd
February 7th, 2009, 07:25 AM
I'm wondering if the execution of Zarek and Gaeta was real. Gaeta is supposed to be on board until ep 418 (four more from here). It could be that he just appears in flashbacks, it could all be a grand deception, or it could be that there is more to happen to Gaeta before he dies. I don't see how Gaeta and Zarek could survive long term, but maybe they weren't shot just yet...



Maybe Gaeta and Zarek are really Cylons? As i've been saying!(I speculate too much...)

Bruman
February 7th, 2009, 07:26 AM
Zarek was ressurected from BSG TOS... ;-)

Espeon1962
February 7th, 2009, 07:46 AM
I think the meeting between Gaeta and Baltar was not an imaginary meeting, but rather the equivalent of the last meal before execution. That was a poignant and tragic moment, as Gaeta - who has been much maligned on these boards recently, in fact was and has always been a true warrior of humanity. He did more for humanity on New Caprica then most, he always believed in the Admiral, and it was mainly when he felt the Admiral was betraying humanity that he acted (obviously recent events such as his leg, for ex the delay in getting a properly fitting artificial leg were influencing his judgement).

Yes he had some judgement lapses (such as the trial where he lied on the stand) but then we all do. We all know Zarek has always been scum - but this was never true of Gaeta. I believe he uttered a line towards the end on the bridge about the "slippery slope" or something similar, wherein his character evinced understanding that tragic decisions have tragic consequences, and kudos to him for recognizing and stopping the fire order. Zarek I always detested, but Gaeta never.

His last meal was thus all the more touching as you saw both the boy and the man all at once as he discussed his childhood and life aspirations, and kudos to Baltar for giving Gaeta the recognition that he needed to be at peace. A wonderfully acted scene.

abc123
February 7th, 2009, 07:47 AM
The leg thing at the end with Gaeta was perfect. Showed that he was actually at peace with events as they had gone, unlike the still-squirming Zarek.



Maybe Gaeta and Zarek are really Cylons? As i've been saying!(I speculate too much...)

Maybe they're all Cylons.

atb
February 7th, 2009, 08:06 AM
So is the assumption that Gaeta had a court martial and was found guilty of treason and executed? Wouldn't Zarek have to have a public trial?

This is assuming Adama wanted to follow procedure, which is what I thought was the deal since he didn't come in shooting into the CIC.

jollyrogue
February 7th, 2009, 08:31 AM
For all we know neither of them are dead.. We didn't actually see them get shot.. just the soldiers shooting something. Good episode though

HAL2100
February 7th, 2009, 08:41 AM
Yes, I really liked the Natalie model. She's smokin' hot! Head six is hot too, but Natalie six seems more approachable.

But it's also kinda interesting to figure out what his relationship is to that six. The six he was involved with on Caprica is now pregnant with Tigh's baby (or someone's). Does this other six have Caprica Six's memories? Will Caprica Six be jealous of Natalie-like six (or vice versa)? What exactly are the rules of cylon sexuality?

Actually it's Head Six that seems to be the most jealous. Caprica six is attached and concerned, but doesn't seem prone to fits of jealousy. Head six is (or was, in the first season).

I was under the impression that Natalie-Six was the Six that was shot by Athena-Eight in the corridor to protect Hera. She was the leader of the rebel Cylons that came over from the Basestar to enlist the help of the humans.

boeli
February 7th, 2009, 08:59 AM
i had hoped that Adama when executing geata pulled of all the insignea(SP?) from Geata's clothes as well as teh batch at his shoulder like he said in the oath you will die with nothing
also the firing squad tehy were obviously loyal, geata ordered that the most loyal were to be selected for it were not killed inmediately and even helped adama take over the ship again.
Roslin however was fantastic with her speaches and her anger whe the radio didnt work.
the quorim, to bad they got killed they finally did something good

Corona
February 7th, 2009, 09:00 AM
I needed to do a little 6 research.

My link to Wiki didn't work, but I read up on the 6s and there were more than I remembered.

HAL2100
February 7th, 2009, 09:07 AM
lol the other resurrection ship that ellen pops up from is probably where cavil is

The resurrection ship could entirely be one built by the Earth-Cylons which would make sense because the Significant Seven had no idea as to whom the Final Five were therefore it stands to reason that none of the Signficant Seven Resurrection Ships would have spares of the Final Five.

Bruman
February 7th, 2009, 09:11 AM
I was a little cavalier. The six in "Blood" is not Natalie... AFAIK, Natalie is dead - its just someone with Natalie's hairdo. There's a tiny chance that Natalie was in range of a resurrection ship when she dies on Galactica (since we don't know where the location of either are), but that seems unlikely.

Tricia Helfer is an astounding actress, especially considering that she got in (as far as I know) by being a Victoria's Secret model. From what I know, models say that to be a good model, you have to make your mind completely blank as you walk down runways. Acting, on the other hand, requires you to become something completely different each time you have a role. Maybe there's a connection in that if you can make your mind blank, you can fill it with a role too, but Tricia is incredible in the number of nuanced versions of six she can do. There's super-sexual, confident, and domineering "head six," there is slightly vulnerable and scarred "Caprica Six," there's the abused and recovering Gina, there's Shelly Godfrey from Season 1. The way she plays theme and variation on those versions of six are really quite amazing. Hats off to you, Tricia. Clothes off is nice too (but not all of them - I like her scantily clad more than totally unclad).

Corona
February 7th, 2009, 09:36 AM
I guess it really is over for Zarek and Gaeta.

http://scifiwire.com/2009/02/exclusive-battlestar-galacticas-richard-hatch-on-zarek-spoilers.php

Did they just open the launch doors to clean up the mess after the firing squad?

Phenix
February 7th, 2009, 09:38 AM
Am I the only one that watched the webisodes? Gaeta was incredibly conflicted because of the damage he caused on New Caprica. I believe he unwittingly helped kill dozens of humans. The coup attempt was his twisted idea of redemption.

Overall a great episode. I have no problem with Adama's escape. I believe there should have been a least one dead marine but eh I'll let it slide.

JayShadow
February 7th, 2009, 10:16 AM
supposed to be on board until ep 418 (four more from here). Two episodes, not four. Razor was 401-402. Blood on the Scales is actually 416.

SG1Commander
February 7th, 2009, 10:38 AM
I was looking the IMDB page for Alessandro Juliani and noticed that he's credited as appearing in the final 6 episodes of the show. Is this a mistake, or did Gaeta survive the execution?

Detox
February 7th, 2009, 10:45 AM
My theory as to Adama's escape:

The marines who were part of the execution squad weren't a part of Adama's crew who went with him to take over the CIC. I think what happened is, people on the ship began to hear of what's happening and they all tickled in to join Adama, as you can see in some of the scenes. His team started out small, but then swelled to literally a flood of crew and marines filling the corridors.

I think it's meant to show that the vast majority of the crew was still on Adama's side, and once hearing Roslin's message and realizing what's happening, most of them, came to Adama to help him retake the ship.

Like someone mentioned earlier, a lot of the mutineers like Narcho and Nowart weren't completely set on the idea of it all, and some like Hotdog didn't even know what was going on and were just simply taking orders. Kelly was a perfect example of those who weren't completely committed to the mutiny. Once he realized what was really happening, he turned back to Adama's side.

As to why the marines in CIC didn't fire at them, probably cause once Gaeta ordered weapons hold, they realized it was over. Plus, Adama surrounded by the entire crew does seem menacing.

Galactica before the mutiny had at least 300 marines.

LoneStar1836
February 7th, 2009, 10:47 AM
I was really surprised how they overwhelmed the execution squad without casualties and then pulled them over to their side, just like that. Didn't Gaeta demand reliable ones for that job?Lee and co must have got the jump on them and the Marines backed down without a fight.

Not exactly buying it myself as these guy were ready to kill the Admiral without question. Are they really that wishy-washy in their loyalty and commitment.

Adama should have locked them in the airlock and dealt with them later rather than trusting them.

Yes, but they were taking orders from a man (Narcho) who really didn't want to execute the Admiral. He stated to the Admiral afterwards that he really respected him but he hated Cylons and just couldn't take orders from a man who would work with them. Probably not too hard to convince him to give up and the squad would have followed his orders.If the squad is so into following orders they would never have agreed to turn against Adama and then proceed to nearly execute him. For them to flip back to Adama's side didn't make much sense to me. They knew what they were about to do and must have not had any qualms about it.

I know they needed bodies and guns to take back the CIC, but if those were indeed the same Marines and not some other ones they encountered along the way, then I rather question that. But it's only a minor detail.... And the episode wasn't exactly clear on if they were the same Marines or different ones.

Adama and his men spared their lives. Among anything, they were just lucky they didn't get shot and flushed out. It seemed as if the entire point of the episode was that not everyone was really thinking things through. Even Narcho got spared getting shot by Adama.Well Adama can't exactly go killing all those that participated in the rebellion. There are just not that many people left in the fleet. Adama was showing them mercy. He's changed over the course of the show. An early Adama might have shot him on site. I wanted him to shoot Narcho but didn't really think he would.

Damn though that Racetrack was a part of all this. While I don't see Adama killing any of the traitors other than the ones he already did, I do wonder what he's going to do with them, even though apparently there were not really an overwhelming number of people who turned.

The really hardcore ones (like the guys that executed the Quorum etc) need to be locked up and the rest of them booted off Galactica IF they can be spared.


For all we know neither of them are dead.. We didn't actually see them get shot.. just the soldiers shooting something. Good episode thoughThey are dead. No reason to imply something and then not do it as far as this particular storyline goes. It would be terribly stupid and lessen the impact of the episode.


Anyway I enjoyed the episode. Not the best episode to date but it was still good. Lampkin taking that guy out with the pen was :cool:

Berg417448
February 7th, 2009, 10:51 AM
I was looking the IMDB page for Alessandro Juliani and noticed that he's credited as appearing in the final 6 episodes of the show. Is this a mistake, or did Gaeta survive the execution?

I wouldn't take IMDB too seriously when it comes to predicting future appearances. It is often wrong. They originally had Dee listed in the last couple of episodes too.

Forthestars
February 7th, 2009, 10:52 AM
I am guessing gaeta gets a flashback moment from the crew out of respect for his original idealism in the final episode.

This episode was superb, the cylons and humans joining together would spill out hate. It is sad, but the nature of thing.

Now here's my question, Baltar seems to sincerely care about his followers. He is also pretty messianic looking, so are we to assume he is the twisted and warped version of the christ figure for BSG? If that is true, would it be that all his mental games and self deceptions are somehow made for him to make the ultimate sacrifice?

I am getting a feeling that Baltar will be the last to die in the series. Kind of full circle, since he destroyed human civilization on the 12 colonies, now he is the one that gives the sacrifice to remake it.

Dinker
February 7th, 2009, 10:54 AM
The whole episode felt contrived to me. Especially the part where they're about to execute Adama and all of a sudden the small team of main characters have somehow managed to overwhelm an entire squad of marines.

I thought the invinicle Kara scene last week was bad but they didn't even bother trying to show how this could even be possible this time. It reminded me of Martin in SG-1 talking about the team getting from the cliff to the gate without ever showing it.

The eight or so Marines were standing in the hangar deck, in a firing line, in a large open space with no cover nearby. All the four main characters had to do was take positions in the balcony overlooking the hangar deck where they would have both the height advantage as well as cover. They would already have the Marines in their sights, yell at the Marines to stand down, and if they did not, in two quick sets of double taps, all eight Marines would be dead in less than two seconds. One would hope that Marines would know when they are screwed so made the correct choice: stand down.

SG1Commander
February 7th, 2009, 11:01 AM
I wouldn't take IMDB too seriously when it comes to predicting future appearances. It is often wrong. They originally had Dee listed in the last couple of episodes too.

You have a good point there. But we'll have to wait till next week to find out for sure.

Sue_Jackson
February 7th, 2009, 11:02 AM
The leg thing at the end with Gaeta was perfect. Showed that he was actually at peace with events as they had gone, unlike the still-squirming Zarek.

Maybe they're all Cylons.

I too am still open to that theory that they are all Cylons. :D That would just be the ultimate twist. :p It would definitely exlpain a LOT!

SG1Commander
February 7th, 2009, 11:05 AM
My theory as to Adama's escape:

The marines who were part of the execution squad weren't a part of Adama's crew who went with him to take over the CIC. I think what happened is, people on the ship began to hear of what's happening and they all tickled in to join Adama, as you can see in some of the scenes. His team started out small, but then swelled to literally a flood of crew and marines filling the corridors.

I think it's meant to show that the vast majority of the crew was still on Adama's side, and once hearing Roslin's message and realizing what's happening, most of them, came to Adama to help him retake the ship.

Like someone mentioned earlier, a lot of the mutineers like Narcho and Nowart weren't completely set on the idea of it all, and some like Hotdog didn't even know what was going on and were just simply taking orders. Kelly was a perfect example of those who weren't completely committed to the mutiny. Once he realized what was really happening, he turned back to Adama's side.

As to why the marines in CIC didn't fire at them, probably cause once Gaeta ordered weapons hold, they realized it was over. Plus, Adama surrounded by the entire crew does seem menacing.

Galactica before the mutiny had at least 300 marines.

That brings up an interesting point. What is going to happen to Kelly now. Is he going back to the brig or what? Sure his being let out of the brig was part of the mutiny, but in the end, he sided with Adama in retaking the ship.

Detox
February 7th, 2009, 11:10 AM
That brings up an interesting point. What is going to happen to Kelly now. Is he going back to the brig or what? Sure his being let out of the brig was part of the mutiny, but in the end, he sided with Adama in retaking the ship.

I'm hoping the next episode resolves the stuff with the other mutineers. My guess is most of them will be given an amnesty, as like I've said earlier, it seems as thought many of the marines taking part were just taking orders and weren't exactly sure what to do. However, on the officer's part, you've got people like Seelix, and Racetrack who obviously were supporting the mutiny from the start. They might get thrown in the brig, or airlocked, who knows. If that's the case. Then my guess would be Kelly will be allowed to return as Adama needs people he can trust and he needs officers.

Bruman
February 7th, 2009, 11:27 AM
Yes, it will be interesting to know what happens to the mutineers. My guess is that ringleaders must be shot. However, it's not realistic to kill everyone who participated, simply because people who can fire guns, run the ship, and fly vipers are in short supply.

The Romans used a technique called "decimation" to control the lower ranks. If there was threat of mutiny or even lack of courage, they would randomly execute every tenth person (decimate coming from latin "decem" meaning 10). I think the Roman method was to execute people whether they participated or not, so as to create the incentive for people to inform on plans of insubordination, but in this case it might be one in every ten mutineers.

I don't think he'll do this, but it is an option. I wonder if Racetrack is going to make it through?

And no Quorum. That will be interesting to resolve.

peragrin
February 7th, 2009, 11:29 AM
The resurrection ship could entirely be one built by the Earth-Cylons which would make sense because the Significant Seven had no idea as to whom the Final Five were therefore it stands to reason that none of the Signficant Seven Resurrection Ships would have spares of the Final Five.

and where is this ship now? who is in control? how long was it drifting in deep space?

jbreaken
February 7th, 2009, 11:57 AM
Great episode!

Six has been all over Hera for a couple episodes now. I actually had to think about who her mama was... funny how Athena don't mind as much anymore.

I think Natalie is a different cylon altogether. Maybe a cylon who has been around for a while, who got pregnant in the cycle that happened before and had Six.

And what's goin on with Starbuck? Is she #7 or what?

I loved Roslin's scene... epic! The reaction Six had was awesome, looked like admiration. She could learn a lot from Roslin, especially since their big boss lady Deanna is starving to death on Earth.

The opera house is definitely gonna happen. And it makes me think that's where Athena and Roslin will die.

tricky
February 7th, 2009, 12:08 PM
Ok, ok. I have to admit it: The guy who did the preview for this episode cut different things out of context to make me think Tigh got killed. I guess good job?

Powerful episode. So much good it's hard to not fill the screen with it.

-Zarek executing the council: you knew he was ruthless, but not even Gaeta was ready for this. I've seen some people asking why Gaeta was shocked by this, when he and his people had killed more on Galactica. But the guys on Galactica were mostly military, they were fighting back, but those politicians were gunned down with no chance to defend themselves. If Zarek had just had them all arrested, locked up somewhere, then I think Gaeta would have been more proactive at the end of the episode, rather then letting Adama take the ship back without a fight.

-Romo kills with a pen. That was epic. But, as he goes into 'self-preservation mode' (oh, and he called his marine his 'pen-pal', that was great), and turns his back on Kara, he has a change of heart. Who woulda expected a lawyer to have a moral compass?

-Who is Gaeta? Nope, not one of those. I think, what he meant, and what Baltar (a man who is going to do a lot in the upcoming eps. imho) agreed to, is that (at least in his mind) Gaeta is a patriot: he fought for what he believed in and he was willing (and going to)to die for it, unlike Zarek.

-Chief's epic voyage; through the bowels of the ship, he gets to the right panel at the right time! (and makes a chilling discovery) Who knew those fancy dancy FTL drives were so fragile?

BobBot
February 7th, 2009, 12:22 PM
So is the assumption that Gaeta had a court martial and was found guilty of treason and executed? Wouldn't Zarek have to have a public trial?

This is assuming Adama wanted to follow procedure, which is what I thought was the deal since he didn't come in shooting into the CIC.

I think summary execution is allowed for bloody treason, and both Gaeta and Zarek had committed mutiny/treason with the deaths of dozens of humans. That's not to say the Admiral would just do it where they stood - no need for the CiC staff to see it, it's a private matter. Also, a firing squad ensures death and limits machinery damage - a headshot could leave the traitor alive and requiring medical attention, or a bullet could hit something important in the CiC. It also gives a bit of time for the sentence to sink in to the executee, so he can really appreciate that he is going to die.

fwupow
February 7th, 2009, 12:33 PM
I had to watch this episode on Sci-Fi rewind, because my worthless Bresnan Cable DVR neglected to record the program again.

I'm wondering who the #6 was that Baltar hooked up with on the rebel ship.

Am I the only one who detests previews. Sci-Fi chnl keeps giving away the story with their damnable previews which always seem to hit me by surprise.

BobBot
February 7th, 2009, 12:40 PM
I wonder if Racetrack is going to make it through?


I hope so - she is far too hot to get rid of!




Now here's my question, Baltar seems to sincerely care about his followers. He is also pretty messianic looking, so are we to assume he is the twisted and warped version of the christ figure for BSG? If that is true, would it be that all his mental games and self deceptions are somehow made for him to make the ultimate sacrifice?

I am getting a feeling that Baltar will be the last to die in the series. Kind of full circle, since he destroyed human civilization on the 12 colonies, now he is the one that gives the sacrifice to remake it.

Baltar has long been the Christlike figure on the show, we've even seen him robed with long hair and a beard, in a 'crucified' pose (can't remember the episode though). He espouses the One True God theory, gives forgiveness, prays, performs miracles, and the Angels talk directly to him (Angel Six and Angel Baltar). His decision to stop running will, I'm sure, be pivotal for the remaining episodes.

He isn't a twisted and warped version of Christ though, he's pretty much just Christ. The fleet represents the exodus of the Jews, and he's converting them to a new religion. He's going to be important to the salvation of humanity, which I believe will involve finding out that human and cylon are the same (in Razor, the Six says 'in the end, we're all human' - a bit of foreshadowing I think). I still believe he may be the 13th Cylon, who created the Skinjobs and appointed himself their God in one of the previous cycles of everything happening. That would parallel Jesus being both the human child of god and god-on-Earth.

Plickies
February 7th, 2009, 12:43 PM
Is it just me or did I just watched the best hour of TV, EVER?

Oh, yes you/we did :)

DetriusXii
February 7th, 2009, 01:04 PM
So will a new quorum be established? I realize that it may be spark a fierce resistance, but the humans and the cylons need to integrate if they're going to survive against Cavil's faction (To be honest I really don't see how. Even though the skinjobs are limited in numbers, Centurions should still have some form of population growth). The Basestar's move to protect human civilian ships against the rebellion may have the been the exact move needed to pacify anti-Cylon hostilities. I'm suggesting that a new quorum should be established and composed of every faction. The Centurions, the skinjobs, the final five, and the humans. If a new government is going to survive and escape the violence that has been a recurring event, the new government needs to abandon the idea of slave races and slave machines. Liberating Cavil's centurions is the key to victory and I think the rebel centurions may have a method to liberate all centurions but are unwilling to, because they are wary of slavery in a human government.

SG1Commander
February 7th, 2009, 01:44 PM
I'm hoping the next episode resolves the stuff with the other mutineers. My guess is most of them will be given an amnesty, as like I've said earlier, it seems as thought many of the marines taking part were just taking orders and weren't exactly sure what to do. However, on the officer's part, you've got people like Seelix, and Racetrack who obviously were supporting the mutiny from the start. They might get thrown in the brig, or airlocked, who knows. If that's the case. Then my guess would be Kelly will be allowed to return as Adama needs people he can trust and he needs officers.

I hope they don't airlock Seelix and Racetrack. Especially Seelix, all she did (that we know of) was distract Ander's so he could be taken to the brig.

jbreaken
February 7th, 2009, 01:45 PM
Alright, after this preview with Ellen gettin resurrected and stuff... I'm so confused.

The ones who are NOT the final five, do we know if they grow up? Or are they always that specific age? Like, did Sharon grow up with all them? Do we know that? Or were those memories just put into her.

Cuz Ellen grew up just like Tigh did, but now she's gettin resurrected and she's the same age she was when she died???? Confusing.

g.o.d
February 7th, 2009, 02:09 PM
holy crap, this was amazing episode

HAL2100
February 7th, 2009, 02:40 PM
and where is this ship now? who is in control? how long was it drifting in deep space?

Who knows. But Ellen did say that she and Saul would be reborn. That everything was in place.

...joins next week. Same Cylon-time, Same Cylon-channel...

jbreaken
February 7th, 2009, 02:46 PM
Everybody who works in the control keeps dying...

s09119
February 7th, 2009, 02:47 PM
Who knows. But Ellen did say that she and Saul would be reborn. That everything was in place.

...joins next week. Same Cylon-time, Same Cylon-channel...

Maybe Cylon Resurrection isn't the same as Final Five Resurrection... the former get reborn into identical bodies but with preserved memories, maybe the latter get reborn at a later date into new bodies with no memories.

HAL2100
February 7th, 2009, 02:52 PM
I hope so - she is far too hot to get rid of!



Baltar has long been the Christlike figure on the show, we've even seen him robed with long hair and a beard, in a 'crucified' pose (can't remember the episode though). He espouses the One True God theory, gives forgiveness, prays, performs miracles, and the Angels talk directly to him (Angel Six and Angel Baltar). His decision to stop running will, I'm sure, be pivotal for the remaining episodes.

He isn't a twisted and warped version of Christ though, he's pretty much just Christ. The fleet represents the exodus of the Jews, and he's converting them to a new religion. He's going to be important to the salvation of humanity, which I believe will involve finding out that human and cylon are the same (in Razor, the Six says 'in the end, we're all human' - a bit of foreshadowing I think). I still believe he may be the 13th Cylon, who created the Skinjobs and appointed himself their God in one of the previous cycles of everything happening. That would parallel Jesus being both the human child of god and god-on-Earth.

Pardon me, but please provide me with anything that remotely resembles evidence, proof or otherwise documentation that Christ slept with any woman that crossed his path. As RDM mentioned in an interview, Baltar didn't even know Caprica-Six's human name as it was too much information for all practical purposes.

HAL2100
February 7th, 2009, 02:58 PM
Maybe Cylon Resurrection isn't the same as Final Five Resurrection... the former get reborn into identical bodies but with preserved memories, maybe the latter get reborn at a later date into new bodies with no memories.

Who's to say that with the Earth-Cylons is completely different wherein instead of multiple copies of them existing at the same time, they're reborn into an identical body that's grown specifically for the resurrection.

s09119
February 7th, 2009, 03:01 PM
Pardon me, but please provide me with anything that remotely resembles evidence, proof or otherwise documentation that Christ slept with any woman that crossed his path. As RDM mentioned in an interview, Baltar didn't even know Caprica-Six's human name as it was too much information for all practical purposes.

Several Gospels indicate Mary Magdalen was a "companion" of Jesus, and the word in Hebrew could also be used to signify "lover."

wontgetfooledagain
February 7th, 2009, 03:10 PM
Tricia Helfer is an astounding actress, especially considering that she got in (as far as I know) by being a Victoria's Secret model. From what I know, models say that to be a good model, you have to make your mind completely blank as you walk down runways. Acting, on the other hand, requires you to become something completely different each time you have a role. Maybe there's a connection in that if you can make your mind blank, you can fill it with a role too, but Tricia is incredible in the number of nuanced versions of six she can do. There's super-sexual, confident, and domineering "head six," there is slightly vulnerable and scarred "Caprica Six," there's the abused and recovering Gina, there's Shelly Godfrey from Season 1. The way she plays theme and variation on those versions of six are really quite amazing. Hats off to you, Tricia. Clothes off is nice too (but not all of them - I like her scantily clad more than totally unclad).
I saw Tricia Helfer on Burn Notice recently and all I saw was Six. But then, I'm sure Burn Notice doesn't really give her much of an opportunity to really stretch out with her acting. Personally, I prefer films to TV shows most of the time for that exact reason -- each film should, ideally, provide an actor or actress with an opportunity to do something totally different. It seems like TV shows probably cause actors to get kind of boxed in. Overall, though, I think I am impressed with the acting on Battlestar Galactica. I would like to see some of these people do real work aside from Battlestar Galactica, since that's obviously coming to an end.

He isn't a twisted and warped version of Christ though, he's pretty much just Christ. The fleet represents the exodus of the Jews, and he's converting them to a new religion. He's going to be important to the salvation of humanity, which I believe will involve finding out that human and cylon are the same (in Razor, the Six says 'in the end, we're all human' - a bit of foreshadowing I think). I still believe he may be the 13th Cylon, who created the Skinjobs and appointed himself their God in one of the previous cycles of everything happening. That would parallel Jesus being both the human child of god and god-on-Earth.
Do you mean literally the same or metaphorically the same? Let's think a moment about what it would mean if skinjobs and humans were literally the same -- could it be that the skinjobs can't produce offspring with fellow skinjobs because they are all siblings? Or has that already been answered?

Corona
February 7th, 2009, 04:02 PM
In regards to putting Cylons on the new quorum, I think they would say goodbye if things weren't going their way. They were going to leave until Roslin talked them out of it, so we know how they will handle problems. Bye!

jbreaken
February 7th, 2009, 04:09 PM
In regards to putting Cylons on the new quorum, I think they would say goodbye if things weren't going their way. They were going to leave until Roslin talked them out of it, so we know how they will handle problems. Bye!


But did you see the way Six looked at Roslin when she was screaming. She would be perfect for the quorum, because you can tell she admires Roslin as a leader and aspires to be like her.

Skydiver
February 7th, 2009, 04:42 PM
not just execution for bloody treason, but zarek ordered the mass murder - in cold blood - of the quorum. and gaeta had multiple witnesses to ordering the death of the president

they h ad to cut the head off that snake and keeping those two alive would have just allowed for more mutiny in the future

jbreaken
February 7th, 2009, 04:58 PM
Dee and D'Anna died (well not officially D'Anna, but we all know she's not with us anymore) in the 1st episode back.

Now Felix and Zarek...

They gonna keep dying in twos? As far as the characters that we know (I know a lot of men died during the mutiny).

Jace021903
February 7th, 2009, 05:44 PM
Several Gospels indicate Mary Magdalen was a "companion" of Jesus, and the word in Hebrew could also be used to signify "lover."

Sorry to be picky, but there is no real evidence for that.

The idea was taken from the Gnostic gospels of Mary and Philip which were written about 150-200 years after the New Testament--not a lot of eye witnesses around then. Gnostic writings were never considered part of the Christian Bible and were completely rejected by early Christians for good reason. In any case, the Greek word "koinonos" translated as "companion" in the Gospel of Philip most likely means "sister" anyway--according to most of the scholars who know about such things.



http://www.y-jesus.com/jesus_married_article.html

The idea made a good novel but has no actual basis. I could rant a lot about Dan Brown's (ahem) research but I'll refrain. :)





What were talking about? Oh yes, the episode. I thought it was really well done. The massacre of the council was shocking. No turning back after that. I was on the edge of my seat at the end. I agree with whoever said that they thought Tyrol was going the way of Spock. Yikes. And poor old Galactica.

I liked how they showed the conflict in Gaeta. And then he calmly accepted the consequences for his actions. The scene with Baltar was excellent.

Lady Snow
February 7th, 2009, 05:53 PM
Now THAT'S an interesting theory....led by serpents 2 and 10 (Vipers), leads the caravan of the heavens to a new home land but suffers from a wasting illness and will not live to see the new land....


This had not occurred to me. At all. Not even remotely.

And it's fascinating. Man, excuse me for a bit while I go let my mind be boggled.


The way the camera panned out, it wasn't clear to me: Did the meeting with Baltar actually transpire, or did Gaeta just make peace in his mind?

I'm leaning towards the latter.

As am I. I don't see the Admiral allowing these last luxuries to Gaeta, no matter the years of service the latter gave. And I also don't think Baltar had the inclination to meet with Felix; I'd also point to Baltar's pretty nice coiffure in the "meeting" and his subsequent disheveled appearance.


For all we know neither of them are dead.. We didn't actually see them get shot.. just the soldiers shooting something.

Ha, I had the same thought. But I'm pretty confident the soldiers didn't miss, nor were they all firing blanks.


And no Quorum. That will be interesting to resolve.

Yes. This. And I have to wonder - since Lee is the last surviving Quorum member, does this make him next in line for the vice-presidency? We know that Laura was 43rd in the line of succession before the Colonies were destroyed, but were the Quorum members ahead of her? And can Roslin pick anyone but Lee? Probably not. The real question will be if we actually see this happen - see the fallout from the Quorum Massacre on screen - or if we just hear a bunch of references to Mr. Vice President Adama.

In other news, Romo Lampkin is my hero. Pen pal. *snickers*

OfF3nSiV3
February 7th, 2009, 06:05 PM
anyone caught the little references from lampkin (the lawyer), when he was being escorted?
the marine took his glasses (his trademark) which represent his "power", and he asked if someone was feeding his dog (he lost his mind when people killed his cat)

HAL2100
February 7th, 2009, 06:57 PM
I just watched it and concur with it all!

-Did anyone else get the feeling the Tyrol seemed a bit sad at seeing the cracks in the hull or was it just me?

-I still say that Adam should have flat out shot Fleix between the eyes without warning and then while everyone was in shock over it, Mom grabs his gun and does the same to Zarek.

-I didn't like the little exchange between Felix and Zarek at the end right before they were shot. I imaged (for whatever the reason) that Felix would have wanted to distance himself from him and not shown any sort of familiarity with him.

Skydiver
February 7th, 2009, 07:09 PM
what if...baltar talked to 'head six' in this, what if baltar is gaeta's 'head six' so to speak.

I think the stress fractures in the ship is going to light a fire, so to speak. now that hte ship is dying, they need to find a home sooner than later...and if galactica is dying, the home they choose will be thier 'final' destination. because i'm willing to bet that galactica won't be able to land or won't last much longer. they now have a time limit, in addition to running from cavil.

HAL2100
February 7th, 2009, 07:21 PM
what if...baltar talked to 'head six' in this, what if baltar is gaeta's 'head six' so to speak.

I think the stress fractures in the ship is going to light a fire, so to speak. now that hte ship is dying, they need to find a home sooner than later...and if galactica is dying, the home they choose will be thier 'final' destination. because i'm willing to bet that galactica won't be able to land or won't last much longer. they now have a time limit, in addition to running from cavil.

That low altitude jump on New Caprica, although WAY, WAY cool probably contributed a great deal to the problems.

SoulReaver
February 7th, 2009, 07:25 PM
It's funny, they accuse Roslin of authoritarianism, but when Zarek sees the pendulum swing not in his favor, he murders them. lol no kidding. seriously it was kinda obvious (starting from what, season 1 ?) that Zarek wasn't exactly the "libertarian" type


not just execution for bloody treason, but zarek ordered the mass murder - in cold blood - of the quorum. and gaeta had multiple witnesses to ordering the death of the presidentactually those two drones troopers who followed that order were just as guilty as he was if not more (but wasn't the bloke whom Lampkin offed with his pen one of those two ?)


Its interesting how Geeta told Zarek after he had the Quorom shot "This is not what I signed up for." Geeta's Mutiny killed many on Galatica. But towards then end I think he realized that he got in over his head. in the end it got in through his head http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/knyten.gif

SoulReaver
February 7th, 2009, 07:26 PM
I was pretty shocked when Zarek had the quorum killed
Omigosh!! Was totally shocked when those people were murdered by Zarek's order.
I was just appalled when Zarek shot the Quorum. He walked out and the marine guards were there, and I could just feel it coming, and thought, "no, he couldn't do that." OMG, he did!
seriously am I the only one who wasn't surprised ? http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/skylight.gif


that said, his was an untimely death - he made a fine villain. a good villain is supposed to last till the end
oh well

HAL2100
February 7th, 2009, 07:33 PM
seriously am I the only one who wasn't surprised ? http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/skylight.gif


that said, his was an untimely death - he made a fine villain. a good villain is supposed to last till the end
oh well

He was a good villian, just bad enough for you to hate him, but just good enough to make you think that he might actually be on your side.

Does anyone think that he might have actually conspired with the Cylons, if given the chance, in an attempt to further sway sympathy toward him and away from Mom & Dad?

HorizonSurfer
February 7th, 2009, 08:05 PM
Darn, never got a chance to watch it till just now. Wow. I'm thinking no more FTL drive for Galactica, and in the end it turns out to be a good thing that they didn't jump away.

Replicator Todd
February 7th, 2009, 08:16 PM
Maybe now they can turn around and head back to Earth! :p

Lady Snow
February 7th, 2009, 09:08 PM
Maybe now Cavil and the others will catch up.

Corona
February 7th, 2009, 09:16 PM
What do you think will happen to those ships who were going to go with Zarek/Gaeta? How deep is the hatred for the existing system even with the leaders shot?

There sure is a lot of kissing and making up when the situation calls for hard discipline.

This time there will be no amnesty, Adama said! Yeah right!

Darren
February 7th, 2009, 09:58 PM
I saved "The Oath" and watched both parts together tonight. Overall, I have to say that I didn't much care for it.

It's a fitting end for Zarek, who I think finally showed his true colors after playing it close to the vest for five years. And it's a fitting end for Gaeta (especially after "The Face of the Enemy"), who has always been a patriot and tried to do the right thing, and has very special reasons for hating Cylons and being convicted that they can never be trusted in any way, shape, or form -- even when they seem to be your best friends.

I saw the execution of the Quorum coming a mile away. This was Zarek's long-awaited power grab, and as soon as he referred to himself as the "President," I figured it wouldn't fly and he'd kill them all.

Most of this 2-parter seemed pretty predictable -- it's like it was a story that had to be told after the fleet's leadership decided to ally with the rebel Cylons. The s### had to hit the fan, and now we can move on and finish the rest of the story. BSG is best when it goes dark and then emerges into the light. This was just brutal ... a constant stream of depression and betrayal and blood, ending with the compulsory turn of the tide and taking back of the CIC.

Realistic, sure. But not entertaining.

helio9
February 7th, 2009, 10:56 PM
That low altitude jump on New Caprica, although WAY, WAY cool probably contributed a great deal to the problems.
Throughout the series (including immediately after the attack on the colonies) Galactica's hull has absorbed several nuke hits. I'm guessing those probably played a bigger part in the stress fractures. Overall though, it's an obvious metaphor for the species at a whole...they're falling apart.

Gaeta went through a ridiculous change of heart to actually launch a coup with Zarek. Zarek never changed, he was always this way but he was kept in check by Adama (s). Gaeta unleashed his madness. Even if he had altruistic intentions, he should have known better than to involve Zarek.

Dusk
February 8th, 2009, 02:23 AM
Excellent!!

Bring on the Reckoning! If I were Adama, I'd show no mercy, and waste the lot of traitors, starting with these bonehead marines.

The little touches are what make episodes like this magnificent. Kelly's eleventh hour change of heart, Hot Dog's stalling, the Quorum's defiance...

Roslin's passionate threat to hunt down and annihilate Zarak was brilliant! And if it had gone that way, we all know she would have done it!

Damage to the jump drive chamber is going to leave Galactica stranded and open to attack by Cavill. Also, where is D'anna?

Only BSG and LOST have me whooping and yelling in excitement these days, and both are coming to a close, BSG far sooner... let's enjoy it while it lasts.

g.o.d
February 8th, 2009, 03:33 AM
the last 15 minutes were so powerful(Roslin's speech, Tyrol crawling through the engineering room, Adama heading to the CIC, when Gaeta gave up, desperate Zarek in the CIC and Gaeta with Baltar), I was speechless when I was watching it. This show is going to be the best show I've ever seen

HAL2100
February 8th, 2009, 07:06 AM
I saved "The Oath" and watched both parts together tonight. Overall, I have to say that I didn't much care for it.

It's a fitting end for Zarek, who I think finally showed his true colors after playing it close to the vest for five years. And it's a fitting end for Gaeta (especially after "The Face of the Enemy"), who has always been a patriot and tried to do the right thing, and has very special reasons for hating Cylons and being convicted that they can never be trusted in any way, shape, or form -- even when they seem to be your best friends.

I saw the execution of the Quorum coming a mile away. This was Zarek's long-awaited power grab, and as soon as he referred to himself as the "President," I figured it wouldn't fly and he'd kill them all.

Most of this 2-parter seemed pretty predictable -- it's like it was a story that had to be told after the fleet's leadership decided to ally with the rebel Cylons. The s### had to hit the fan, and now we can move on and finish the rest of the story. BSG is best when it goes dark and then emerges into the light. This was just brutal ... a constant stream of depression and betrayal and blood, ending with the compulsory turn of the tide and taking back of the CIC.

Realistic, sure. But not entertaining.

The hallowed leader speaks! All hail the Imperious Leader! Listen to his words and know truth and freedom.

Corona
February 8th, 2009, 07:09 AM
I do believe that Dee's suicide was the final straw which pushed Gaeta over the edge.

HAL2100
February 8th, 2009, 07:10 AM
the last 15 minutes were so powerful(Roslin's speech, Tyrol crawling through the engineering room, Adama heading to the CIC, when Gaeta gave up, desperate Zarek in the CIC and Gaeta with Baltar), I was speechless when I was watching it. This show is going to be the best show I've ever seen

I think that I would have liked to have heard her speech sooner in the episode and broadcast over the wireless so that the Quorum and all of the fleet heard what was going on without Z & G being able to stop before she said enough. I

Bruman
February 8th, 2009, 07:29 AM
I do believe that Dee's suicide was the final straw which pushed Gaeta over the edge.

Possibly, or maybe Gaeta was already trying to recruit Dee for his mutiny in their final conversation, and that's how he approached the subject.


Although Tom Zarek deserved what he got in the end, I will miss having his character around.

HAL2100
February 8th, 2009, 08:13 AM
I finally saw the promo that SPACE aired and when Anders made the comment 'I remember everything...', I couldn't help but think of Alice... "My name is Alice and I remember - EVERYTHING."

The resurrection chamber looks like its a part of a Cylon Basestar. It seems like its different from the others.

HAL2100
February 8th, 2009, 08:14 AM
I finally saw the promo that SPACE aired and when Anders made the comment 'I remember everything...', I couldn't help but think of Alice... "My name is Alice and I remember - EVERYTHING."

Thank you to g.o.d. for the link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbC4KkAUiL8

BobBot
February 8th, 2009, 09:02 AM
Alright, after this preview with Ellen gettin resurrected and stuff... I'm so confused.

The ones who are NOT the final five, do we know if they grow up? Or are they always that specific age? Like, did Sharon grow up with all them? Do we know that? Or were those memories just put into her.

Cuz Ellen grew up just like Tigh did, but now she's gettin resurrected and she's the same age she was when she died???? Confusing.

We see them resurrect into adult bodies and Cavil is quite old-looking while the Sixes and Eights are young-looking, so we can assume they just are 'born' as adults with basic knowledge (eg language and specific skills such as piloting, engineering etc). The first Hybrid was being created at the end of the First Cylon War (as seen in Razor) and so Cavil can't be older than 40 years. There's no reason to think their bodies don't grow older until the day that body dies. We also know that one Eight downloaded Athena's memories from one of her resurrections, so this Eight now also remembers Athena's times with Helo, which Helo isn't too comfortable with. This shows that don't need to experience something to remember it, and there's no reason to think that the memory-data can't be edited or manufactured.

BobBot
February 8th, 2009, 09:12 AM
Pardon me, but please provide me with anything that remotely resembles evidence, proof or otherwise documentation that Christ slept with any woman that crossed his path. As RDM mentioned in an interview, Baltar didn't even know Caprica-Six's human name as it was too much information for all practical purposes.

I can't provide you with any proof or documentation of Christ existing, although he probably did. Mary Magdelene was supposed to be a prostitute as far as I know, though I can't quote a source for that.

Anyway, Baltar does all the things Christ is alleged to have done, but he's a more developed character - he does things in addition to things Christ 'did'.

ToasterOnFire
February 8th, 2009, 09:57 AM
A nice interview with the writer of this ep is here. (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-gaeta-blood-scales-angeli.html#more)

It seems like a few scenes were trimmed for time (Baltar on the basestar, Zarek with the quorum, etc). Some last ep too - I don't remember Adama saying "see you soon" to Roslin like in the previouslies. I could have sworn I read that these last 10 eps might run uncut and over an hour on skiffy, guess not? Oh well, there's always the DVDs.

BobBot
February 8th, 2009, 10:02 AM
What do you think will happen to those ships who were going to go with Zarek/Gaeta? How deep is the hatred for the existing system even with the leaders shot?


I don't think the ships realised the situation. They wouldn't have known about the bloodshed - they were just scared about having Cylons on their ships installing Cylon tech. Roslin's broadcast probably made them realise exactly what was going on in terms of power struggle, and while they may still object to the Cylon involvement they probably still have loyalty to the legitimate authorities.

the missing 7
February 8th, 2009, 10:07 AM
the full roslin speech

the full speech

No! Not now, not ever! do you hear me I will use every cannon, every bomb, every bullet, every weapon I have down to my eyeteeth to end you! I swear it! I'm coming for all of you!!!!

Skydiver
February 8th, 2009, 11:20 AM
they're probably saving the cut scenes to put on the dvd's so they can pimp them as 'full of never before seen footage' to make up for basically charging us double the money

HAL2100
February 8th, 2009, 11:27 AM
We see them resurrect into adult bodies and Cavil is quite old-looking while the Sixes and Eights are young-looking, so we can assume they just are 'born' as adults with basic knowledge (eg language and specific skills such as piloting, engineering etc). The first Hybrid was being created at the end of the First Cylon War (as seen in Razor) and so Cavil can't be older than 40 years. There's no reason to think their bodies don't grow older until the day that body dies. We also know that one Eight downloaded Athena's memories from one of her resurrections, so this Eight now also remembers Athena's times with Helo, which Helo isn't too comfortable with. This shows that don't need to experience something to remember it, and there's no reason to think that the memory-data can't be edited or manufactured.

Yes that certainly applies to the Signficant Seven, but it does not neccessarily apply to the Final Five or other Earth-Cylons. The fact that there appears to have been numerous different versions of the Earth-Cylons suggests that its also possible that the technology varies or operates differently as well. (Example: Saying that an automobile's engine is in the front is not a true statement.) In short, the established facts concerning the Colonial-Cylons do not neccessarily apply to the Earth-Cylons.

The only established facts (as I recall) concerning the Earth-Cylons are:

1. Toaster and Skin Jobs existed
2. There is some means of resurrection.
3. The means of resurrection is similar to that of the other Cylons in that a bath of gooey-milk is invovled. (For lack of a better description).
4. No other information on the Earth-Cylons resurrection process or details is available.
5. A vast number of Earth-Cylons perished in a nuclear disaster that resulted in the Earth becoming inhabitable.
6. At some point, at least 5 Earth-Cylons somehow survived the disaster.
7. The Final Five were opposed to the destruction of the colonies. (Mentioned in an earlier episode.)
8. The identities of the Final Five were kept secret from the Significant Seven.
9. The Significant Seven were programmed not to think about the Final Five.
10. Knowledge of the Earth-Cylons was kept secret from the Colonials.

Other than that, I really can't think of any ESTABLISHED facts concerning the Final Five or the rest of the Earth-Cylons.

jbreaken
February 8th, 2009, 02:11 PM
Yes that certainly applies to the Signficant Seven, but it does not neccessarily apply to the Final Five or other Earth-Cylons. The fact that there appears to have been numerous different versions of the Earth-Cylons suggests that its also possible that the technology varies or operates differently as well. (Example: Saying that an automobile's engine is in the front is not a true statement.) In short, the established facts concerning the Colonial-Cylons do not neccessarily apply to the Earth-Cylons.

The only established facts (as I recall) concerning the Earth-Cylons are:

1. Toaster and Skin Jobs existed
2. There is some means of resurrection.
3. The means of resurrection is similar to that of the other Cylons in that a bath of gooey-milk is invovled. (For lack of a better description).
4. No other information on the Earth-Cylons resurrection process or details is available.
5. A vast number of Earth-Cylons perished in a nuclear disaster that resulted in the Earth becoming inhabitable.
6. At some point, at least 5 Earth-Cylons somehow survived the disaster.
7. The Final Five were opposed to the destruction of the colonies. (Mentioned in an earlier episode.)
8. The identities of the Final Five were kept secret from the Significant Seven.
9. The Significant Seven were programmed not to think about the Final Five.
10. Knowledge of the Earth-Cylons was kept secret from the Colonials.

Other than that, I really can't think of any ESTABLISHED facts concerning the Final Five or the rest of the Earth-Cylons.


Thank you! That helped a lot.

If all of this happened before and it will all happen again, I think that they go to Cobalt (spelling?) and try to live peacefully. Something happens, some kind of feud, and the cylons and their children go to Earth when it becomes habitable again while humans stay on Cobalt. Once the other 12 colonies, considering they have been nuked 2,000 years later become habitable, the humans inhabit them.

Ellen back then, maybe Hera in the future figures out how to recreate a version of the hub. Something happens, humans get pissed, nuke Earth, and thought they had destroyed them all, but Ellen or whoever had a backup plan, and resurrect, or had already created copies of the final five.

2,000 years pass, the final five go unnoticed, the humans think all cylons have been destroyed, they create toaster cylons. While the final five create the significant seven, and Kara.

Just typing out loud, lol. For some reason I feel like Ellen might have nuked Earth, maybe wanted to start all over.

Mongoletsi
February 8th, 2009, 03:29 PM
they're probably saving the cut scenes to put on the dvd's so they can pimp them as 'full of never before seen footage' to make up for basically charging us double the money

Word!

the missing 7
February 8th, 2009, 04:01 PM
david eick had said that there will be a lot of extended episodes

Mongoletsi
February 8th, 2009, 04:27 PM
Maybe Gaeta and Zarek are really Cylons? As i've been saying!(I speculate too much...)

You do keep saying that don't you. When all evidence continually points to the contrary! Final Five, so even if we ignore the fact Ellen Tigh is clearly #5, you're still splitting the 5th spot between Gaeta and Zarek! You lose!

Mongoletsi
February 8th, 2009, 04:33 PM
Six has been all over Hera for a couple episodes now. I actually had to think about who her mama was... funny how Athena don't mind as much anymore.

Glad somebody else noticed (I read this entire thread). She even said "I've got Hera".


And what's goin on with Starbuck? Is she #7 or what?

No mate!


The opera house is definitely gonna happen. And it makes me think that's where Athena and Roslin will die.


Could be...

Mongoletsi
February 8th, 2009, 04:38 PM
I finally saw the promo that SPACE aired and when Anders made the comment 'I remember everything...', I couldn't help but think of Alice... "My name is Alice and I remember - EVERYTHING."

The resurrection chamber looks like its a part of a Cylon Basestar. It seems like its different from the others.

Some of avoid previews for a reason, thanks a lot :mad:

bfldworker
February 8th, 2009, 04:46 PM
I loved the episode. Especially the part where Roslin says "I AM COMING FOR ALL OF YOU!"

I do however doubt he was executed. It seem more like a dream sequence then reality (In the BSG world). And on top of it his IMDB entry has him in a few more episodes of BSG. Not to mention I read something about him showing up in later episodes. In the BSG world ANYTHING is possible. If Ellen is coming back why can't Gaeta be alive.

HorizonSurfer
February 8th, 2009, 04:50 PM
Thank you to g.o.d. for the link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbC4KkAUiL8Oh nice, I'd missed the promo. Thanks. :cool:

HAL2100
February 8th, 2009, 04:58 PM
You do keep saying that don't you. When all evidence continually points to the contrary! Final Five, so even if we ignore the fact Ellen Tigh is clearly #5, you're still splitting the 5th spot between Gaeta and Zarek! You lose!

We only have the Colonial-Cylons word that there are only 12 Human-form models. In the same way that they were programmed NOT to think about the Final Five nor know their identities nor know any information about Earth-Cylons, they could have been programmed to think that there are only 12. If they were never told that there were more, they would have no way of knowing. Think computers & programs...

HAL2100
February 8th, 2009, 05:01 PM
Some of avoid previews for a reason, thanks a lot :mad:

As I recall, a few other posters had already brought up the previews AND had discussed specifics contained therein.

lunarleviathan
February 8th, 2009, 06:31 PM
We only have the Colonial-Cylons word that there are only 12 Human-form models. In the same way that they were programmed NOT to think about the Final Five nor know their identities nor know any information about Earth-Cylons, they could have been programmed to think that there are only 12. If they were never told that there were more, they would have no way of knowing. Think computers & programs...

All of this begs the questions, when did they encounter the final five previously in order to know about them? Why were they programmed to only know of them but not who they are, and by whom? Could the final five have been involved with the creation of the Colonial-Cylons, especially the skin-jobs?

HAL2100
February 8th, 2009, 07:01 PM
All of this begs the questions, when did they encounter the final five previously in order to know about them? Why were they programmed to only know of them but not who they are, and by whom? Could the final five have been involved with the creation of the Colonial-Cylons, especially the skin-jobs?

Yes it does beg the question. Obviously they were programmed by someone and that someone (whether one person or a group of people) knew of the Final Five.

Keep in mind that there's no evidence that the Significant Seven had *ever* met the Final Five previously.

Shan Bruce Lee
February 8th, 2009, 08:15 PM
We only have the Colonial-Cylons word that there are only 12 Human-form models. In the same way that they were programmed NOT to think about the Final Five nor know their identities nor know any information about Earth-Cylons, they could have been programmed to think that there are only 12. If they were never told that there were more, they would have no way of knowing. Think computers & programs...

Actually, we have the opening sequence they ran in 4.0 that said there were 12 models. It's set in stone.

Mongoletsi
February 9th, 2009, 02:53 AM
As I recall, a few other posters had already brought up the previews AND had discussed specifics contained therein.

Indeed. After a few, I picked on you. Deal with it :D

Mongoletsi
February 9th, 2009, 02:59 AM
We only have the Colonial-Cylons word that there are only 12 Human-form models. In the same way that they were programmed NOT to think about the Final Five nor know their identities nor know any information about Earth-Cylons, they could have been programmed to think that there are only 12. If they were never told that there were more, they would have no way of knowing. Think computers & programs...

Oh c'mon! Seriously. With 6 episodes left, do you really, really think it's going to transpire that there's actually Seven "Final" people? So instead of Final Five, it's Final Seven. Gaeta and Zarek are not Cylons! Were either them drawn to Starbuck's Viper? To each other? Flashbacks on Earth? Hear the music the other four did?

No.

There are 12 (or possibly 13) Cylons; First Seven, Final Five. That's it. Possibly it may turn out there's a #7 model, but most people doubt it.

Skydiver
February 9th, 2009, 03:53 AM
as a mod i gotta say, please put preview chat behind spoiler tags :)

Now, as a poster, zarek and gaeta are dead. I don't see any way that they are cylons. they gambled and they lost, largely because, like most coups, they didn't plan for the eventualities, didn't put stuff in play or line things up, they just acted and reacted and then got stuck in not knowing what to do.

they overestimated their appeal and abilities and it cost them their lives.

What i think is going to be interesting, whenever the fleet finds a 'home', how these events will divide up the fleet. I have a funny feeling that they will again divide themselves along political lines, ie sagitarians live near each other, aquarians living in this set of homes, etc.

and things like 'did you rebel?' 'did you shoot your own?' 'are you a cylon lover' etc, will just add to the divisions and be more polarizing.

they will set themselves up to fail again. because 'divided we fall' will be set into place, albiet that it'll take the divisions a few thousand years to come to the breaking point.

abc123
February 9th, 2009, 04:48 AM
Does anyone get the feeling that Baltar is going to write a book or something on Gaeta? That would be a perfect setup for a bunch of Gaeta-flashbacks/memories which could explain why Juliani is still credited in the last episodes.

ToasterOnFire
February 9th, 2009, 08:08 AM
I figure they kept Juliani in the credits as to not give away his death. It would be pretty obvious if he was in the first 14 or so eps but not in the last 6. Is Kandyse McClure also credited up to the end?


they're probably saving the cut scenes to put on the dvd's so they can pimp them as 'full of never before seen footage' to make up for basically charging us double the money
Yeah I know, I'm still stewing over the 4.0/4.5 crappery. Sigh.

Arative
February 9th, 2009, 08:11 AM
I figure they kept Juliani in the credits as to not give away his death. It would be pretty obvious if he was in the first 14 or so eps but not in the last 6. Is Kandyse McClure also credited up to the end?


Yeah I know, I'm still stewing over the 4.0/4.5 crappery. Sigh.

Yes, Kandyse is credited to the very end, at least on IMDB.

HAL2100
February 9th, 2009, 08:18 AM
Actually, we have the opening sequence they ran in 4.0 that said there were 12 models. It's set in stone.

Well its was also stated all through Season 1 that they had a plan. Of course, RDM could always retcon that the Cylons took over production...

HAL2100
February 9th, 2009, 08:25 AM
Oh c'mon! Seriously. With 6 episodes left, do you really, really think it's going to transpire that there's actually Seven "Final" people? So instead of Final Five, it's Final Seven. Gaeta and Zarek are not Cylons! Were either them drawn to Starbuck's Viper? To each other? Flashbacks on Earth? Hear the music the other four did?

No.

There are 12 (or possibly 13) Cylons; First Seven, Final Five. That's it. Possibly it may turn out there's a #7 model, but most people doubt it.

I never said that Gaeta or Zaerk were Cylons. I merely stated that someone had to program the other skin jobs. The fact that the Cylons have been programmed to know that there are twelve human form Cylons doesn't mean that there aren't more. A computer only knows what its programmed to know.

While another poster did point at that the opening credits of Season 4 indicated 12 Cylon models, the flashbacks to Earth would suggest that there were many, many more at one time. It may very well be that the correct way of stating it is that there are only 12 models in the current day.

Cloud
February 9th, 2009, 09:21 AM
The cylons never had a plan -- IMO that was some bs that RDM made up.

I'm one of the few people in this thread who liked Gaeta, and I'm sad to see him go. He rebelled for good reasons, but he didn't want things to go down quiet the way they did. I think it would have been better to have Zarek not murder the quorum but instead turn out to be a better democratic leader than Roslyn. I should've seen this coming because Zarek's first act as VP was to attempt to murder all the traitors from New Caprica (ironically, this included Gaeta -- which begs me to ask why would Gaeta have sided with Zarek in the first place to stage a coup?).

I guess Bill Adama didn't like Gaeta that much. All his talk in the boxing ring of not letting his family fall apart again. He forgives practically everyone else for their crimes but has to execute Gaeta for having a bad day? BS. If you can't tell that one of your crew members is disgruntled to the point of mutiny (and is showing obvious signs of it) then what kind of Admiral are you?

Lee got it right: they are a gang on the run. If you commit a crime we can forgive you as long as we like you. Guess we don't like Felix.

I have more to say, but no time to post. Great episode though. I like how the coup didn't even last 12 hours. (but it's Felix's fault they all got stuck on New Caprica. If he didn't rat that the election was fixed then Roslyn would've won and they would not have wasted a year plus on a dumb planet).

Skydiver
February 9th, 2009, 09:34 AM
what the names in the credits usually mean is 'this is a regular character so they're gonna be paid for the whole season' and then if the actor has in his/her contract to actually appear in every episode, let's say that Mary is contracted to appear in all 20 episdoes. If she's left out of one, she still remains in the credits and might even be paid a bonus or compensation for NOT appearing in a specific episode

In other words, her compensation is based on the whole season not how much or how many times she appears

it all depends on the show's budget and how each contract is written

having them appear in the credits and get paid even if they're not in an episode is likey the most expensive way to retain an actor, yet it gives you the most flexibility since the actor is basically 'on call' for the whole taping season. While if they are paid on a per episode basis, then the show can be their 'part time job' so to speak

HAL2100
February 9th, 2009, 10:02 AM
what the names in the credits usually mean is 'this is a regular character so they're gonna be paid for the whole season' and then if the actor has in his/her contract to actually appear in every episode, let's say that Mary is contracted to appear in all 20 episdoes. If she's left out of one, she still remains in the credits and might even be paid a bonus or compensation for NOT appearing in a specific episode

In other words, her compensation is based on the whole season not how much or how many times she appears

it all depends on the show's budget and how each contract is written

having them appear in the credits and get paid even if they're not in an episode is likey the most expensive way to retain an actor, yet it gives you the most flexibility since the actor is basically 'on call' for the whole taping season. While if they are paid on a per episode basis, then the show can be their 'part time job' so to speak

I seem to recall that Billy was shot, not because of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but because he committed to another project while as a 'recurring character'.

It also allows for the story to be told as-is while keeping the actors in your backpocket for later use.

Mongoletsi
February 9th, 2009, 11:15 AM
You'll notice Kate Vernon (Ellen Tigh) isn't listed on IMDB for any more S4 episodes. So I think we can assume misdirection there!


I never said that Gaeta or Zaerk were Cylons.

But you were directly supporting the OP's suggestion that they were, by reminding us that it currently appears that some kind of Cylons are the original Earthen inhabitants.


[ ... stuff ... ]It may very well be that the correct way of stating it is that there are only 12 models in the current day.

Indeed. However I was directly refuting the notion that Gaeta or Zarek were Final Fivers (or indeed any other type of "Cylon" in the current sense. Your circular argument is largely redundant here, unles you are actually implying that Gaeta and Zarek are reborn Earthlings (whatever the Earthlings transpire to be)? If that is what you're suggesting, then fair enough. I suspect the majority disagree though.

ToasterOnFire
February 9th, 2009, 11:38 AM
You'll notice Kate Vernon (Ellen Tigh) isn't listed on IMDB for any more S4 episodes. So I think we can assume misdirection there!
Yeah, it makes sense that people who were in s4 would remain in the s4 credits even if they died to prevent spoiling the death (Dee, Gaeta) and people who come back would remain out to prevent spoiling their return (Ellen, ???).

HAL2100
February 9th, 2009, 11:52 AM
But you were directly supporting the OP's suggestion that they were, by reminding us that it currently appears that some kind of Cylons are the original Earthen inhabitants. Indeed. However I was directly refuting the notion that Gaeta or Zarek were Final Fivers (or indeed any other type of "Cylon" in the current sense. Your circular argument is largely redundant here, unles you are actually implying that Gaeta and Zarek are reborn Earthlings (whatever the Earthlings transpire to be)? If that is what you're suggesting, then fair enough. I suspect the majority disagree though.

For the record as it was obviously not stated earlier, the point of the original post was to suggest that there could be other Cylon skin jobs out there. At no time did I ever intend to directly or indirectly imply, suggest or otherwise theorize that Gaeta or Zarek were Cylons. If I did not make that clear, I apologize. The point that I was making is that in the same way that the Cylons were programmed not to think of the Final Five, they could have been programmed to think that there were only 12 human models. That was the point. If my default that infers that Gaeta or Zarek could be Cylons so be it. I was not intending to raise or further discuss those two specific persons being Cylons.

That is all that I'm going to say. I will NOT be further discuss my original post or whether or not it advocated Zarek or Gaeta as being Cylons. The posts stands as it stands. PERIOD. Conversation Ended. End of Line

HAL2100
February 9th, 2009, 12:04 PM
But you were directly supporting the OP's suggestion that they were, by reminding us that it currently appears that some kind of Cylons are the original Earthen inhabitants. Indeed. However I was directly refuting the notion that Gaeta or Zarek were Final Fivers (or indeed any other type of "Cylon" in the current sense. Your circular argument is largely redundant here, unles you are actually implying that Gaeta and Zarek are reborn Earthlings (whatever the Earthlings transpire to be)? If that is what you're suggesting, then fair enough. I suspect the majority disagree though.

For the record as it was obviously not stated earlier, the point of the original post was to suggest that there could be other Cylon skin jobs out there. At no time did I ever intend to directly or indirectly imply, suggest or otherwise theorize that Gaeta or Zarek specifically were Cylons. If I did not make that clear, I apologize. The point that I was making is that in the same way that the Cylons were programmed not to think of the Final Five, they could have been programmed to think that there were only 12 human models. That was the point. If by default that infers that Gaeta or Zarek could be Cylons so be it. I was not intending to raise or further discuss those two specific persons being Cylons.

That is all that I'm going to say. I will NOT further discuss my original post or whether or not it advocated Zarek or Gaeta as being Cylons. The posts stands as it stands. PERIOD. Conversation Ended. End of Line

Mongoletsi
February 9th, 2009, 12:10 PM
Chill out mate.

Skydiver
February 9th, 2009, 12:38 PM
IMDB is far from 100% accurate.

it's fan/public maintained, thus anyone can get on there and edit it.

IIRC, they had rainbow coming back for several episodes in season 3 i think...never happened

it's a guide, but it's like Wiki, not 100% fool proof or reliable

Rac80
February 9th, 2009, 02:21 PM
what an ep! the rebellion floundered! The quorum dead! (hmmmmm congress??? nope not a good I dea I guess:P:P) Adama in charge! Laura ready to kick azz for the rebellion killing her guy! ;) Lee dropping the grenade without pulling the pin! On the edge of my seat!


ty for posting the space preview...it was way better than what they showed in the US. :P lucky cannucks!
When's the next ep?????

TheChosen1
February 9th, 2009, 03:55 PM
That is all that I'm going to say. I will NOT be further discuss my original post or whether or not it advocated Zarek or Gaeta as being Cylons. The posts stands as it stands. PERIOD. Conversation Ended. End of Line

I suspect your a tron fan , :cool:

TheChosen1

HAL2100
February 9th, 2009, 04:38 PM
I suspect your a tron fan , :cool:

TheChosen1

Actually yes, but I picked up the End of Line from the Hybrid.

Hmmm...what if all of Colonial history from Kobal to the present to the near future is nothing but a computer simulation running in a mainframe running over and over again. For that matter, what if that mainframe was named the WOPR?

"All this has happened before, All this will happen again..."

entil2001
February 9th, 2009, 06:04 PM
In some comments to my review for the previous episode, I noted that the Zarek/Gaeta revolution was doomed from the beginning based on its own nature. As right as Gaeta might have been in his accusations against Adama and how the admiral has changed over time, and as right as some of the dissention against the Adama/Roslin Caprican power bloc might have been, neither of those considerations were at the heart of the coup.

A revolution is seldom successful without a unifying ideal and vision. It has to be about fighting for something, rather than simply fighting against the status quo. There must be a unifying goal and dream, married to a solid philosophy, or the revolution becomes little more than directed mob action.

Zarek and Gaeta had personal reasons for wanting to overthrow the current power structure within the fleet. For Zarek, it was a matter of taking what he felt was rightfully his to take. Adam and Roslin used Zarek on several occasions, and never gave him the authority and trust that the legal electoral system granted him. The recent installation of Lee Adama as president in Roslin's absence was just the latest insult. Zarek tried to work within the system, and he was left with the unfortunate conclusion that Capricans were still lording over those from other colonies.

Gaeta was overflowing with hate and remorse, based on his personal experiences on New Caprica and the choices he made. His reasons for hating the Cylons were rational enough, but he never laid out the argument to anyone. He just took action out of a mixture and righteousness and revenge. Such things are powerful motivators, but in this case, they were also deeply internal. So those driving emotions never became a true rallying cry to the revolution.

Because Zarek was using Gaeta to achieve a personal power play, and Gaeta never truly offered anything more than rage and hate as the basis for his coup, the revolution was little more than a large-scale outlet of negative emotions. There was no rallying philosophy or plan to replace what Adama and Roslin were offering; there was simply anger over the realization that Earth was not the answer to all the problems.

The revolution never offered an alternative, however, and while uncertainty demanded a degree of chaos, it was the kind of fire that burns fast and hot. The entire revolution lasted a few hours at most, and within that time, it took mere minutes for Zarek to start lying to Gaeta to pursue his own power play. If anything, the end result (including the slaughter of the Quorum) galvanized the power structure even more around Adama and Roslin.

Adama and his followers have been tested by revolt, and they were equal to the task. They simply won't be challenged again on any meaningful level from within the fleet. Roslin managed to bend the Rebel Cylons entirely to her will through force of personality alone. It seems like the Cylons were willing to put their survival on hold for the sake of Roslin's agenda, which has some startling implications. It certainly supports the notion that the Rebel Cylons aren't the threat they used to be.

It also seems as if Baltar's conscience is finally beginning to manifest itself. Instead of reveling without guilt in the lovely arms of yet another version of Six, Baltar rails against his own tendency to run away from personal responsibility. Baltar's association with Adama and Roslin in this crisis will of course be noted, and it could be that this will transform the nature and purpose of his cult into something vital to the survival of Humanity.

One unexpected side effect of this coup is the realization of just how far gone the Galactica is. The ship has been through absolute hell since the Cylon attack, and there's only so much that can be repaired on the fly. Based on what Tyrol saw in the FTL drive compartment, the Galactica is on its last legs. Cylon upgrades may be more than just a perk; they might be vital to fleet survival. In essence, this cements the notion that Adama and Roslin were right about the alliance being the only hope for the future.

This could lead to the general recognition that Adama and Roslin are making the right call out of necessity, not out of some semi-mystical sense of prophecy. The realities surrounding Earth have led to a general distrust of prophecy, so pragmatic concerns could rule the day. This all depends on how the truth about the Final Five and Kara plays out. The writers have been knocking it out of the park for the last several episodes, so for now, they've earned a measure of trust.

John Keegan
Reprinted with permission
Original source: c. Critical Myth, 2009
All rights reserved
Link: http://www.criticalmyth.com

lunarleviathan
February 9th, 2009, 08:13 PM
Yes it does beg the question. Obviously they were programmed by someone and that someone (whether one person or a group of people) knew of the Final Five.

Keep in mind that there's no evidence that the Significant Seven had *ever* met the Final Five previously.

True, true. I get the feeling the answers to these questions could be something left for Caprica... which would make it a whole lot more interesting than the current premise as we know it.

g.o.d
February 9th, 2009, 11:02 PM
True, true. I get the feeling the answers to these questions could be something left for Caprica... which would make it a whole lot more interesting than the current premise as we know it.

no, it will be resolved in 4.5....probably

Night Marshal
February 10th, 2009, 07:18 AM
I remember a phase from the season 3 finally of Babylon 5 not sure if its a quote or JMS handy work but the quote is "the future is born in fire." Boy BSG proves this point. You have to conflict to move forward otherwise people would never come together. Part of the long standing problem with the fleet is they are split and often stupid. Not that they don't have reasons for the things that they are doing but on a whole they are rarely the wise thing. The coup should change most of that.

As for Zareck all the man needed was a big black mustache and he would have been the perfect one dimensional villain. The character has been very poorly used since leaving New Caprica. When you can't justify a villains point of view he has failed. I wish he had been used better but sadly no.

I think the strongest part of this show is it was something you could have seen in any space or ship drama. The fight for control, the near misses, and the retaking of the ship. Sure the character moments would be different but this would be something you could point as something other shows can learn from. I also think the slow pace of the last few minutes brings down to earth the gravity of what these people have done and how it effects the world they live in.

Good show still not going to watch it again.

Matt G
February 10th, 2009, 03:19 PM
1. And the Quorum get wasted. Here's where the revolution flounders.

2. Like the chat between Tyrol and the Marine.

3. Sort of had some sympathy for Gaeta at the end, still think he was a moron though.

4. Looks like Lee's VP.

V.good ep.

JayShadow
February 10th, 2009, 06:10 PM
I'd like to point out just how bad ass the Romo pen take down was. Not only does he take a guard out with a pen, but he has the presence of mind to take his sunglasses back before he has to decide whether to run or not. That's priorities.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l115/JayShadow/romoshades.jpg

TheChosen1
February 10th, 2009, 06:53 PM
Actually yes, but I picked up the End of Line from the Hybrid.

Hmmm...what if all of Colonial history from Kobal to the present to the near future is nothing but a computer simulation running in a mainframe running over and over again. For that matter, what if that mainframe was named the WOPR?

"All this has happened before, All this will happen again..."

Ahh, well I guess I was lucky on the guess you were a tron fan based on the "end of line" quote. All be it you were referencing bsg.

Very interesting take. That will definitely be a mind-frak.

TheChosen1

STC
February 10th, 2009, 07:42 PM
For all we know neither of them are dead.. We didn't actually see them get shot.. just the soldiers shooting something. Good episode though


I wondered about that myself. I've heard stories where not all soldiers on execution squads have real bullets. Could you imagine if Adama gave the message to the marines to shoot at Zarek only, or Gaeta only?? The way it was cut we didn't see their bodies slump.

The previews for next week didn't contain clips of them, so it would be really interesting to see how it finally plays out.

HAL2100
February 10th, 2009, 07:47 PM
I wondered about that myself. I've heard stories where not all soldiers on execution squads have real bullets. Could you imagine if Adama gave the message to the marines to shoot at Zarek only, or Gaeta only?? The way it was cut we didn't see their bodies slump.

The previews for next week didn't contain clips of them, so it would be really interesting to see how it finally plays out.

I think that we didn't see the bullets hit them to emphasize the drama. I do like the idea of Adama giving the Marines to shoot Zarek only just to freak out Gaeta just before they space him.

Mongoletsi
February 11th, 2009, 02:10 AM
Why would they make Gaeta think he was to be shot, only to shoot Zarek, before flushing Gaeta out of an airlock? Why not just shoot Gaeta?

Finger13
February 11th, 2009, 02:21 AM
Well, now, thank you very much. Some of us do not watch the previews and for a frakking reason.

More people than myself have posted spoilers for week, and spoilers are to be expected in this thread.

I'm sorry if I ruined anything for you though, should have put it into spoiler tags if it's next week's material I guess... My post wasn't the first talking about Anders though.

Besides, all I said is that he remembers.

What is it that he actually knows? Who knows. Does he die after anyway? Who knows.

Mongoletsi
February 11th, 2009, 03:30 AM
More people than myself have posted spoilers for week, and spoilers are to be expected in this thread.

I certainly don't expect spoilers and teasers for next week to be revealed in a thread about this week's episode.

It'd be like telling a discussion about Harry Potter & The Order of the Pheonix that...
Dumbledore dies in the next book.

Anyway, from this very same thread, one page back:


as a mod i gotta say, please put preview chat behind spoiler tags :)

pjt
February 11th, 2009, 04:10 AM
I wondered about that myself. I've heard stories where not all soldiers on execution squads have real bullets. Could you imagine if Adama gave the message to the marines to shoot at Zarek only, or Gaeta only?? The way it was cut we didn't see their bodies slump.

The previews for next week didn't contain clips of them, so it would be really interesting to see how it finally plays out.

They do this on purpose. The do an interview with Richard Hatch about his final episode in BSG, they did an interview with Kandyse McClure about her final episode in BSG, but there's still silence about Alessandro Juliani.

StellarMalice
February 11th, 2009, 07:14 AM
I've only just joined so apologies if anyone has already suggested this...

Has any one else wondered if the "dying leader" from the prophecies might be Adama? There have been shots in recent episodes where he is taking tablets. I'm wondering if there will be bit of a twist at the end.

Stellar

HAL2100
February 11th, 2009, 08:07 AM
Why would they make Gaeta think he was to be shot, only to shoot Zarek, before flushing Gaeta out of an airlock? Why not just shoot Gaeta?

The psychological impact of it.

HAL2100
February 11th, 2009, 08:13 AM
I certainly don't expect spoilers and teasers for next week to be revealed in a thread about this week's episode.


I think its a matter of perspective. With how my brain works, I honestly consider the next weeks preview to be a part of this week's show. There's not a series that I watch where I get up at the credits. I *have* to wait till the preview airs. For me, it doesn't spoil the next episode but rather instills eager anticipation for it. Case in point with some of the scenes from last week's preview, I'm on pins and needs and can't f***ing wait for Friday night.

If you choose NOT to watch the preview, that's your decision. But what if you're watching SciFi later in the week and a promo airs. Do you immediately turn off the TV?

ToasterOnFire
February 11th, 2009, 08:34 AM
Yes, I actually plug my ears and turn away when a BSG commercial comes on skiffy. I don't want to be spoiled for this show, as it reduces the impact of the story for me. And yes, thanks to this thread and the thread over on TWoP I am unfortunately spoiled for certain events next ep. I for one would greatly appreciate it if trailer scenes are spoiler-tagged and think it's a courtesy to those that avoid any and all info from upcoming eps.

Corona
February 11th, 2009, 09:09 AM
There is such a fine line in showing a clip from next week and ruining any suspense. How many shows have a main, shot or buried only to be shown next week running around?

All the suspense and cost of an expensive effects scene up in smoke over a 30 second preview.

Screw previews. If you watched the show this week you will likely watch next week. If not, you wouldn't see the preview anyway.

Spoiler previews are a misleading lot anyway, especially with BSG.


Now, I know Zarek is dead. Hatch said so. Gaeta may end up as dead as Kara, (or Spock for that matter), which means we have Zombies in our midst.

Cylons and Zombies. Now there's a spoiler for you! :P

HAL2100
February 11th, 2009, 09:15 AM
Yes, I actually plug my ears and turn away when a BSG commercial comes on skiffy. I don't want to be spoiled for this show, as it reduces the impact of the story for me. And yes, thanks to this thread and the thread over on TWoP I am unfortunately spoiled for certain events next ep. I for one would greatly appreciate it if trailer scenes are spoiler-tagged and think it's a courtesy to those that avoid any and all info from upcoming eps.

I Asked the Moderators for an official dispensation.

Oh and for the record...

Cain returns as god, but no one believes her since she's dressed in a skimpy mini-dress, blonde wig and has size 38-K boobs.

HAL2100
February 11th, 2009, 09:17 AM
Cylons and Zombies. Now there's a spoiler for you! :P

Didn't you always wonder what was inside the old centurions?

Mongoletsi
February 11th, 2009, 11:06 AM
The psychological impact of it.

You mean torture, then?

Adama: "Haha just teaching you a lesson... of course we weren't going to shoot you."
Gaeta: "Phew! Look, I'm reeeeeally sorry,"
Adama: "Haha, fooled you again! Airlock time!"

Mongoletsi
February 11th, 2009, 11:10 AM
I think its a matter of perspective. With how my brain works, I honestly consider the next weeks preview to be a part of this week's show.

I think it's a cultural thing. I read somewhere that the Americas side of the pond likes it's previews - and even the in-episode previews (the montage right after the credits), wereas the Euro side prefers not to have the previews. Neither is right or wrong I guess, just preference.


I'm on pins and needs and can't f***ing wait for Friday night.
Amen brother!


But what if you're watching SciFi later in the week and a promo airs. Do you immediately turn off the TV?

Eyes closed, TV muted. Yep :D

HAL2100
February 11th, 2009, 11:39 AM
Eyes closed, TV muted. Yep :D

I like the idea of technology built into your set-top cable box wherein you can block previews/promos of your favorite shows.

For that matter, why not go one step further were you can receive mini-soides of your favorite shows dropped instead of the promo. An example might be that you get a :60 second glimpse of a character running through Galactica being chased. Or maybe something were it looks as if you're TV is being taken over by a Cylon Virus. Or even have the mini-soide look like a Cylon to Cylon transmission that's been accidently picked up by your TV wherein the indicate that everything is in place for the attack on Earth.

...the full intellectual property rights are retained by me....

Mongoletsi
February 11th, 2009, 12:11 PM
...the full intellectual property rights are retained by me....

Giggled-Out-Loud Green for this baby :D

Corona
February 11th, 2009, 01:06 PM
Cain returns as god, but no one believes her since she's dressed in a skimpy mini-dress, blonde wig and has size 38-K boobs. HAL2100

Now I may not believe this, but I really would like to see a picture! ;);)

HAL2100
February 11th, 2009, 02:02 PM
Cain returns as god, but no one believes her since she's dressed in a skimpy mini-dress, blonde wig and has size 38-K boobs. HAL2100

Now I may not believe this, but I really would like to see a picture! ;);)

Did i mention the lollipop and the rogue on her face?

(We now return you to the primary topic of discussion...)

akuma07
February 12th, 2009, 04:49 AM
Finally got round to watching Blood on the scales last night.

Was a tad dissapointed my hopes of a cyclon centruian raid on Galactica didn't happen, but in fairness it was a pipe dream!

Anyhow, what did surprise we was the speed in which zareck and gateor were excuted, you knew it would happen, but that quick, wow! Adama must have been REALLY ****** off!

HAL2100
February 12th, 2009, 07:08 AM
Finally got round to watching Blood on the scales last night.

Was a tad dissapointed my hopes of a cyclon centruian raid on Galactica didn't happen, but in fairness it was a pipe dream!

Anyhow, what did surprise we was the speed in which zareck and gateor were excuted, you knew it would happen, but that quick, wow! Adama must have been REALLY ****** off!

It was pretty clear cut. No need to try them. Only some liberal, left-wing 'let's reform them', "murdering is wrong" activist would argue that they shouldn't be shot.

Mongoletsi
February 12th, 2009, 07:20 AM
It was pretty clear cut. No need to try them. Only some liberal, left-wing 'let's reform them', "murdering is wrong" activist would argue that they shouldn't be shot.

Still not sure why Adama would sit Gaeta and Zarek before a firing squad but have them just shoot Zarek, sparing Gaeta, only to have him thrown out of the airlock!

HAL2100
February 12th, 2009, 07:28 AM
Still not sure why Adama would sit Gaeta and Zarek before a firing squad but have them just shoot Zarek, sparing Gaeta, only to have him thrown out of the airlock!

Think about it. You're sitting there fully prepared to die, ready for it to happen and whatever pain the bullets might inflict and then nothing. You're left there seeing him dead, waiting for the bullets and then suddenly you're sucked out the launch tube. It's to cause intentional psychological harm before killing him.

I have heard that when a beheading takes place that the executioner uses two blades. The he walks up to the convicted who is on his/her knees and stabs him/her at the base of their back with one blade. The person out of reflex jerks up and back. And that is all she wrote.

ToasterOnFire
February 12th, 2009, 07:35 AM
What with the constantly decreasing human population and no end to their journey in sight, I guess one could argue that it may not be prudent to willfully kill off anyone and decrease the gene pool, even by such a tiny amount. Though that also brings up the issues of justice and potentially forced reproduction...

HAL2100
February 12th, 2009, 07:45 AM
What with the constantly decreasing human population and no end to their journey in sight, I guess one could argue that it may not be prudent to willfully kill off anyone and decrease the gene pool, even by such a tiny amount. Though that also brings up the issues of justice and potentially forced reproduction...

You could just as easily argue that making an example of person's who commit crimes post holocaust should be done as it clearly communicates that it won't be tolerated. When justice is swift and harsh, it serves as a deterrent to crime. Within the fleet, it would serve to communicate that they are in such dire circumstances that pettiness cannot be tolerated as there are other more pressing issues - like the survival of the species.

akuma07
February 12th, 2009, 09:16 AM
Still not sure why Adama would sit Gaeta and Zarek before a firing squad but have them just shoot Zarek, sparing Gaeta, only to have him thrown out of the airlock!


Think about it. You're sitting there fully prepared to die, ready for it to happen and whatever pain the bullets might inflict and then nothing. You're left there seeing him dead, waiting for the bullets and then suddenly you're sucked out the launch tube. It's to cause intentional psychological harm before killing him.

I have heard that when a beheading takes place that the executioner uses two blades. The he walks up to the convicted who is on his/her knees and stabs him/her at the base of their back with one blade. The person out of reflex jerks up and back. And that is all she wrote.

Did you guys see something I didn't?

The episode I watched on Sky One eneded when the firing squad pulled the trigger. I didn't see Geata get spared and flushed out an airlock????????????

Is this just a theory, or what if, or have missed something?

Skydiver
February 12th, 2009, 09:20 AM
just a theory

your version is the same as ours....implied violence without actually showing it.

adama said fire, i think we heard shots, fade to black

Arative
February 12th, 2009, 09:30 AM
What with the constantly decreasing human population and no end to their journey in sight, I guess one could argue that it may not be prudent to willfully kill off anyone and decrease the gene pool, even by such a tiny amount. Though that also brings up the issues of justice and potentially forced reproduction...

There is still 38,000 humans, which is a large enough gene pool. Some scientists believe at one point due to a super volcano eruption there were only 20 breedable females on the planet. So killing off a few of the malcontents to spread some harmony back into the fleet would be ok.

BobBot
February 12th, 2009, 09:49 AM
There is still 38,000 humans, which is a large enough gene pool. Some scientists believe at one point due to a super volcano eruption there were only 20 breedable females on the planet. So killing off a few of the malcontents to spread some harmony back into the fleet would be ok.

What? I've never heard that, but just because someone is a scientist doesn't mean they aren't crazy. I'm a scientist, and some of my colleagues believe weird things. Men with beards in the sky controlling everything, conspiracy theories, aliens visiting Earth to stick probes up people's rear ends... But anyway, it has been suggested by more rational scientists that a gene pool of 2000 sufficiently diverse reproducive humans would be enough to repopulate the species. Zarek and Gaeta also were shot, not airlocked, so their genetic material could still be harvested and stored (though really there's no need).

HAL2100
February 12th, 2009, 09:58 AM
Did you guys see something I didn't?

The episode I watched on Sky One eneded when the firing squad pulled the trigger. I didn't see Geata get spared and flushed out an airlock????????????

Is this just a theory, or what if, or have missed something?

No not a theory or fact. Just an idea that came up a few posts back.

But then with all of the fan speculation that's out there for BSG and Stargate and the other shows. Let's just start an argument as to WHO was shot first and who technically died first and whether or not someone would die slowly or quickly if tossed out an airlock - and for that matter do they die of suffocation or extreme cold.

ToasterOnFire
February 12th, 2009, 01:30 PM
I think Arative is referring to the Toba supervolcano eruption, which is speculated to have brought the entire human population down to an extremely low number. I don't think it was quite as low as 20 females, though. The theory has a lot of science and study behind it. Genetic studies indicate that all humans today are descendant from that small group.

munciefan
February 12th, 2009, 10:29 PM
um...i'm confused. i reread the forums the other night, and i might have missed it, but not only did galen see stress fractures, he saw an old school cylon working around at the upper levels, and that really was frackin clear as frackin day.

akuma07
February 13th, 2009, 12:48 AM
No not a theory or fact. Just an idea that came up a few posts back.

But then with all of the fan speculation that's out there for BSG and Stargate and the other shows. Let's just start an argument as to WHO was shot first and who technically died first and whether or not someone would die slowly or quickly if tossed out an airlock - and for that matter do they die of suffocation or extreme cold.

LOL

Just for a laugh,

We would need to know which of the firing squad pulled the triggger first, then it would depend on there accuracy.

But in theory Geata would die first as he was in less physical good condition having only one leg and all, but that may have played to his advantage as his blood would have less to circulate, thus providing resouce to cells for longer.

However Geata was more prepared to die as he knew he'd done worng and thus his will to survive would be lesser than Zarek as he thought what he did was correct and just.

Corona
February 13th, 2009, 05:01 AM
You saw a long shop of Tyrol at the railing/

Having just listened to and watched Moore's podcast, we know for fact Zarek and Gaeta are dead and that the mysterious 'cracks' will be explained tonight. I got the impression Galactica is falling apart from Moore and that's a major part of this finale. Dying leader sounds more like the ship all the time.

13 hours!

HAL2100
February 13th, 2009, 06:55 AM
um...i'm confused. i reread the forums the other night, and i might have missed it, but not only did galen see stress fractures, he saw an old school cylon working around at the upper levels, and that really was frackin clear as frackin day.

Uh..no. I have it on iTunes (thank you Mr. Jobs) and didn't see anything that remotely resembles a Centurion.

HAL2100
February 13th, 2009, 06:58 AM
Spoiler for this week...

I had a dream last night that I was in a theme park at a private event and met post-resurrection Ellen. We were all excited to see her, but kept from raising any questions. Along with that, for whatever reason, it turned out that two or three of the Sixes (in the dream) had decided to go their own way.

There was also chocolate covered bananas and marshmallows on sticks.

Mongoletsi
February 13th, 2009, 07:58 AM
Think about it. You're sitting there fully prepared to die, ready for it to happen and whatever pain the bullets might inflict and then nothing. You're left there seeing him dead, waiting for the bullets and then suddenly you're sucked out the launch tube. It's to cause intentional psychological harm before killing him.

Yes but why on Earth would Adama want to make Gaeta's last moments so torturous? It makes no sense. In the unlikely event Adama did spare him, it wouldn't have been just so he could mess with Gaeta's head; it'll be for another reason. If Adama did go in for such inhumane stuff, he'd save it for Zarek surely.

Mongoletsi
February 13th, 2009, 08:05 AM
There is still 38,000 humans, which is a large enough gene pool. Some scientists believe at one point due to a super volcano eruption there were only 20 breedable females on the planet. So killing off a few of the malcontents to spread some harmony back into the fleet would be ok.

Dunno where you got those figures from mate but they ain't right.

38,000 might be just about large enough.

As for the "20 pairs", I'm afraid "some scientists" are somewhat short of the mark. I think you might be alluding to the Tober incident which reduced humans to somewhere between 1,000 and 10,000 breeding pairs.

thevarrior
February 13th, 2009, 08:55 AM
Dunno where you got those figures from mate but they ain't right.

38,000 might be just about large enough.

As for the "20 pairs", I'm afraid "some scientists" are somewhat short of the mark. I think you might be alluding to the Tober incident which reduced humans to somewhere between 1,000 and 10,000 breeding pairs.

He has his science wrong. He's referring to the Mitochondrial Eve theory, which does not at any point indicate that "only 20" females existed. The majority of humans contain the same genetic fingerprint for mitochondrial DNA (which is passed on in the maternal line) from an "Eve" (stupid name, since it means absolutely none of the biblical connotations that it suggests). What it means is that almost everyone but the people with this mitochondrial DNA were wiped out. This does not in any way mean at some point in time the world's population was wiped down to one woman.

Back on topic - 38,000 men and women is a sufficient gene pool size to effectively increase the population.

HAL2100
February 13th, 2009, 10:35 AM
Yes but why on Earth would Adama want to make Gaeta's last moments so torturous? It makes no sense. In the unlikely event Adama did spare him, it wouldn't have been just so he could mess with Gaeta's head; it'll be for another reason. If Adama did go in for such inhumane stuff, he'd save it for Zarek surely.

Revenge. You expect Zarek to do something like that, not Gaeta.

Pharaoh Atem
March 2nd, 2009, 02:36 AM
i'll give zarek credit he and feelix tried something no one had the courage to try and died for the cause in the end

plus tom killed 12 of my least favorite characters +1 in my book

"it stopped" "fire" the best irony ever

spinny magee
August 20th, 2010, 04:54 AM
That scene near the end with baltar and Gaeta pretty much was the best part for me