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GateWorld
February 2nd, 2009, 06:26 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/heroes/s3/cold-wars/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/cold-wars.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px #000000 solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">HEROES SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/heroes/s3/cold-wars/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">COLD WARS</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 317</FONT>
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Matt, Peter and Mohinder kidnap Noah Bennet and probe his mind to learn how the government project to round up people with abilities began, and who is really in charge.

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Phenix
February 23rd, 2009, 07:03 PM
Wow, they are truly pathetic writers.... Peter would have lost the ability to fly as soon as he touched Parkman.

I hope Parkman dies soon. I despise that they made him a precog. Heroes' constant need to drop anvils as foreshadowing is a true example of their ineptitude as writers.

Can I now officially say that this show has jumped the shark?

the fifth man
February 23rd, 2009, 07:35 PM
Personally, I enjoyed tonight's episode very much. HRG is such a complex character. I love him and hate him at the same time.:)

Phenix
February 23rd, 2009, 07:49 PM
Personally, I enjoyed tonight's episode very much. HRG is such a complex character. I love him and hate him at the same time.:)

I like Noah but I don't like how the writers treated the other characters. I really don't know why I watch anymore since I spend most of the time just shaking my head and wondering how these people are paid to write such horrible dialog.

the fifth man
February 23rd, 2009, 08:01 PM
I like Noah but I don't like how the writers treated the other characters. I really don't know why I watch anymore since I spend most of the time just shaking my head and wondering how these people are paid to write such horrible dialog.

Sorry to see you have a problem with the writing on the show. Overall, I think this Volume has been a big improvement over some of the previous ones. But, there are a few things I could nitpick on if I wanted to. Usually, like in tonight's episode, I can overlook them though.:)

Phenix
February 23rd, 2009, 08:24 PM
Sorry to see you have a problem with the writing on the show. Overall, I think this Volume has been a big improvement over some of the previous ones. But, there are a few things I could nitpick on if I wanted to. Usually, like in tonight's episode, I can overlook them though.:)

Its just real simple things that get me. Like Peter flying away with Parkman at the end of the show. Peter has said that he can only use the ability of the person he has touched.

I felt the scenes with Parkman and Mohinder were 100% contrived or perhaps poorly acted. The dialog seemed stale and I didn't buy the premise that Matt needed HRG drugged. Matt is one of the most powerful metahumans around and I'm sure he could get Noah to spill the beans. And his escape was ah pretty lame. Maybe he really is a metahuman.

Shan Bruce Lee
February 23rd, 2009, 09:56 PM
Its just real simple things that get me. Like Peter flying away with Parkman at the end of the show. Peter has said that he can only use the ability of the person he has touched.

I think the reason Peter could fly is something we'll find out about later. I think if he holds on to an ability for long enough he keeps it. When Peter said he could only hold on to one power at a time he didn't say anything absolute, he said "for some reason"


I felt the scenes with Parkman and Mohinder were 100% contrived or perhaps poorly acted. The dialog seemed stale and I didn't buy the premise that Matt needed HRG drugged. Matt is one of the most powerful metahumans around and I'm sure he could get Noah to spill the beans. And his escape was ah pretty lame. Maybe he really is a metahuman.

No he's not. I'm not sure where you got that idea from, but Parkman has probably struggled with his powers more than anybody else on the show.

Bobby
February 24th, 2009, 01:47 AM
There is probably a little bit of will involved in Peter getting someones powere. I think he has to think about doing it, it doesnt just come on naturally.

Jonzey
February 24th, 2009, 04:52 AM
Or maybe Peter didn't touch Parkman, just his clothing.

But you're right. That would make sense and the writers don't make sense therefore the writers didn't intend for that therefore they're stupid and you should stop watching.

retiredat44
February 24th, 2009, 05:07 AM
well, that 40 minutes blew by,, and didn't get much out of it.. not that it wasn't a good episide.. but the story didn't advance a whole bunch either.. glad Daphne is OK.
:)

Skydiver
February 24th, 2009, 05:11 AM
i'm starting to lose patience with all this back and forth, is he good or bad? yadda, yadda

i feel like we're being strung out as 10 episodes worth of story is being made to fill 20 or something like that

make some plot progress please. cause right now i feel like i can miss an eps or two and not miss a single plot relevant point

drake122
February 24th, 2009, 07:06 AM
"phasers on stun" lol --> the best thing in this episode

knowles2
February 24th, 2009, 07:51 AM
Well I actually enjoyed this episode.Yes it was a bit slow. Peter never once touch skin with Parkman, which is the only way we that peter absorbs new abilities now it seems and in the first season it was explained that he absorb the DNA of the person with other powers and incorporated it with his own.

I like the way they used parkman ability was use to explain how this whole thing was started and Bennett way of guiding them to the money weapon cache, yes I believe he wanted them to go their and pick up a few supplies, hope Peter pick up everything bennet wanted him to have.

Syid really should just started working with them the start through like Bennett planned him to from the begging.

I like the way Peter mum behind everything as usual and how she going to play Nathan and the hunter off each other and lead them to destroy their little operations. In the hope of crippling any future operations goverment
against people with powers, she going to have to get rid of her own son but I am sure she will not let that get in her way. They will still know they are out their just not where they are or who they are or how to capture them.

Phenix
February 24th, 2009, 11:24 AM
I think the reason Peter could fly is something we'll find out about later. I think if he holds on to an ability for long enough he keeps it. When Peter said he could only hold on to one power at a time he didn't say anything absolute, he said "for some reason"

I know this. One of the reasons why the writers of Heroes are subpar is that they rely on the "trust us" factor too much. They are unable to write a coherent plot yet I keep coming back in the hopes that they are able to overcome this shortcoming. Parkman probably outweighs Peter by 60-80 pounds. I really doubt that he could hold Parkman by the neck w/o touching Parkman's skin. Its highly unlikely and I believe it is yet again a major plot hole. The writers are saying "trust us."



No he's not. I'm not sure where you got that idea from, but Parkman has probably struggled with his powers more than anybody else on the show.

Parkman can enter the mind of at least one other person. He can create an illusion that will force that person to kill his compatriots, implant false memories, steal thoughts, and likely kill a person. Parkman's ability has "evolved" to include precog abilities. I personally think that this is a MAJOR stretch but again the Heroes writers are saying "trust us." Since his evolution I expect that he is capable of manipulating more than one mind at a time. The only other metahuman that can realistically over power him is Sylar. No other metahuman can overcome his ability to manipulate their minds.

Shan Bruce Lee
February 24th, 2009, 02:50 PM
I know this. One of the reasons why the writers of Heroes are subpar is that they rely on the "trust us" factor too much. They are unable to write a coherent plot yet I keep coming back in the hopes that they are able to overcome this shortcoming. Parkman probably outweighs Peter by 60-80 pounds. I really doubt that he could hold Parkman by the neck w/o touching Parkman's skin. Its highly unlikely and I believe it is yet again a major plot hole. The writers are saying "trust us."

You're not hearing what I said. I'm saying I think once Peter has held on to an ability for an extended period of time he keeps that ability. Permanently. So even if he absorbed Parkman's ability when he flew off with him he wouldn't drop him because he'd already retained the ability to fly indefinitely.

And the writers have never said "trust us"



Parkman can enter the mind of at least one other person. He can create an illusion that will force that person to kill his compatriots, implant false memories, steal thoughts, and likely kill a person. Parkman's ability has "evolved" to include precog abilities. I personally think that this is a MAJOR stretch but again the Heroes writers are saying "trust us." Since his evolution I expect that he is capable of manipulating more than one mind at a time. The only other metahuman that can realistically over power him is Sylar. No other metahuman can overcome his ability to manipulate their minds.

You didn't understand this either. Weather or not Parkman's ability is more "powerful" than anybody else's ability is debatable but irrelevant. Parkman's inability to control, understand his powers is what makes him weaker than some of the other heroes and keeps him from realizing his full potential.

There's no evidence to support the claim that nobody can realistically overcome his ability. HRG doesn't even have powers and Parkman made it clear in last night's episode that it would be more difficult to get inside his head. So it's clearly not a foregone conclusion.

Jonzey
February 24th, 2009, 03:32 PM
The writers of Heroes sometimes leave gaps they expect the fans to fill with simple logic, rather than them having to explain every little thing that happens. Unfortunately, some people refuse to do that.

knowles2
February 24th, 2009, 04:13 PM
The writers of Heroes sometimes leave gaps they expect the fans to fill with simple logic, rather than them having to explain every little thing that happens. Unfortunately, some people refuse to do that.

Also does not other things get explained in their online games and comics to.

flameling
February 24th, 2009, 04:34 PM
I liked the episode as a whole, but missed the Sylar subplot. I hope they do something heavily with that plot soon. Loved how HRG and Mrs. Petrelli are minipulating everyone, again.

Phenix
February 24th, 2009, 05:07 PM
I think the reason Peter could fly is something we'll find out about later. I think if he holds on to an ability for long enough he keeps it.

Did you mean to say person? At the end of last season Peter held onto Nathan's power until he ran into another meta. He lost it as soon as he touched another metahuman.... He most likely held that same power for a similar amount of time this season but things have changed...?


When Peter said he could only hold on to one power at a time he didn't say anything absolute, he said "for some reason"

And it is lazy writing to have him figure out that he can fly while carrying Parkman with out at least dropping a hint.


You're not hearing what I said. I'm saying I think once Peter has held on to an ability for an extended period of time he keeps that ability. Permanently. So even if he absorbed Parkman's ability when he flew off with him he wouldn't drop him because he'd already retained the ability to fly indefinitely.

And the writers have never said "trust us"

Perhaps you can say what you mean the first time instead of saying that I'm not reading your properly.



No he's not. I'm not sure where you got that idea from, but Parkman has probably struggled with his powers more than anybody else on the show.


You didn't understand this either. Weather or not Parkman's ability is more "powerful" than anybody else's ability is debatable but irrelevant. Parkman's inability to control, understand his powers is what makes him weaker than some of the other heroes and keeps him from realizing his full potential.

There's no evidence to support the claim that nobody can realistically overcome his ability. HRG doesn't even have powers and Parkman made it clear in last night's episode that it would be more difficult to get inside his head. So it's clearly not a foregone conclusion.

Yea, Parkman only fooled Nox, overcame his father, broke through Arthur's power, and forced armed men to kill one another. HRG's ability to evade Parkman is an example of the writers saying trust me. It makes no sense since he overcame Angela.......

I did misinterpret what you originally intended. I was staying with my original point that Parkman is one of the most powerful metahumans alive.

the fifth man
February 24th, 2009, 08:20 PM
I liked the episode as a whole, but missed the Sylar subplot. I hope they do something heavily with that plot soon. Loved how HRG and Mrs. Petrelli are minipulating everyone, again.

Well, I know the March 9th episode will deal heavily with Sylar and his mission to find his father.

Shan Bruce Lee
February 24th, 2009, 10:19 PM
Perhaps you can say what you mean the first time instead of saying that I'm not reading your properly.

I did. I said the exact same thing in the first post.

Wyrminarrd
February 25th, 2009, 07:52 AM
Peter not taking Parkmans powers can be easily explained by saying that Peter can avoid taking powers if he wants to, he just has to have his guard up when he touches the person (on the plane he didnt really know about this but has since figured it out)

The episode on the whole was rather good, Im glad to finally have a Claire and Hiro free episode so there was no character irritating me this week.

Corgano
February 25th, 2009, 08:42 AM
I find it rather stupid that all the Heroes (and Sylar too) don't try to use their power(s) more often or more effectively! Their powers give them so much potential but they waste it constantly! They mostly behave as if they were common fugitives without any special powers! It is pretty lame!

And on the other hand, Nathan's plan is really stupid (even from Nathan's perspective)! He has absolutely no reason for trying to detain all metahumans, including those who don't even have any potentially dangerous powers.

entil2001
February 25th, 2009, 04:10 PM
Im not sure why this episode required three writers. On the face of it, the structure and content is about as simple as it gets, and a lot less complicated than most of the episodes this season. Somehow, despite the very focused nature of the narrative, the writers managed to incorporate two elements that undermine the notion that they're trying to avoid needless repetition.

It feels like the writers sat down and tried to figure out how to bring the story back to the glories of the first season, and remembered that one of the best episodes happened to be "Company Man". "Heroes" had taken a page from the "Lost" playbook and focused on its most morally grey character, Noah Bennett, and explored his true motivations and history. It's still probably the best episode of the series, and it's obvious why the writers would want to invoke the same strengths.

The main story was actually not bad. It was interesting seeing the dynamic between Peter, Matt, and Mohinder. Matt denies that losing Daphne has led to some serious instability, but that's clearly not the case. He's more than happy to torture Noah to get information he wants, and he turns on Mohinder with barely any provocation. He wants someone to blame and punish.

Mohinder, on the other hand, seems about as confused about himself as the audience. His character motivations have been so diverse since the beginning of the third season that it's hard to know if Matt really is stepping over the line. Logically, however, Noah said nothing that would have led Mohinder to do much of anything, since it was all so vague, and he could have said that. But then, he and Matt wouldn't have had a reason to fight, would they?

This would have been a good time for Peter to step up to the plate as the resistance leader. While his actions prove that he has the ability and some of the will, he really should have tried to rein in the Matt/Mohinder angst. One big problem with every season of "Heroes" has been the lack of a unifying figure for the "good guys". Peter has been the obvious candidate in nearly every case, and yet, the writers still keep his character idling in third gear.

In terms of Noah's memories, most of them explain what was already rather obvious. Danko is a zealot with a desire to eliminate the threat of the metahumans (probably because someone was killed by one, the usual drill), and Bennett is working within the system to try to find a way to bring him down. Danko is inching ever closer to his goal of pushing Nathan out of the driver's seat so he can get his personal crusade underway. It's all something we already knew; Noah's interrogation did more to benefit the characters than the audience.

The end of the episode does suggest that Angela Petrelli is "Rebel", but it's not confirmed, and all we really know is that Bennett and Angela are both trying to contain the damage that Nathan has caused. They both see Danko as the threat, and they're working together. The net effect is a minor advancement of the story; Mohinder's capture is more significant.

As noted above, none of this would have amounted to much annoyance, except for the fact that the writers chose two overdone story elements for their big reveals. First, there's Daphne. Her death was a big shock, and helped to elevate the stakes right from the start of the new volume. Having her survive is a lot less interesting, and continues the trend of bringing back characters that were better off dead. (Unless, of course, the writers can give Daphne a reason to exist beyond her function in Matt's psychology.)

The second problem, and a much bigger one, was the final reveal. It's bad enough that the writers have repurposed Matt into "prophecy guy", because they can't stop returning to the Isaac well again and again. But it's much worse to return to the "one of the heroes is going to destroy a city" plot device. How many times are the writers going to repeat themselves?

This wasn't a horrible episode, but it did confirm that the writing staff is struggling to develop new ideas. As promising as the "Fugitives" concept might have been, the execution is slipping right back into all too familiar territory.

Replicator Todd
February 25th, 2009, 05:01 PM
I really loved this episode as HRG is one of my favorite characters. Matt's actions are very odd though, he has gotten far more darker.

Spimman
February 26th, 2009, 08:42 AM
While I have been through the ups and downs about HRG, I have finally realized he is one of my favorite characters. I don't always "like" his character, because sometimes he is bad and sometimes good. I am starting to realize his complexity and unpredictable nature is awesome.

Was that a different watch he gave back to Angela?

LoneStar1836
February 26th, 2009, 07:43 PM
Was that a different watch he gave back to Angela?I think it was the same one. He's not ready to retire just yet....

HRG is still my favorite character...well the only one I care about anymore anyway. Though he's not quite as interesting anymore because while he does fall into that morally gray area, he is still mostly on the side of the heroes...going all the way back to season two when they showed a possible future and Noah was helping those with powers. When it comes to choosing a side, he seems to ultimately side with them...because of Claire I suppose.

Meh. Episode was okay. Didn't really reveal anything other than Daphne is still alive, and I had already read a spoiler for that. I already knew HRG was playing both sides of the fence.

Ugh. I hate Nathan. There is no redemption for him unless he sacrifices himself and dies and stays dead this time, but it still won't be as effective as the first time when he saved Peter.

jenks
February 26th, 2009, 10:24 PM
It's REALLY starting to annoy me now that no one is mentioning that Nathan has powers, it would completely land him in the **** yet none of them mention it, seriously lazy writing, I could forgive it if it were just one or two scenes but it's gotten beyond a joke now.

Madwelshboy
February 27th, 2009, 12:50 AM
I find it rather stupid that all the Heroes (and Sylar too) don't try to use their power(s) more often or more effectively! Their powers give them so much potential but they waste it constantly! They mostly behave as if they were common fugitives without any special powers! It is pretty lame!

And on the other hand, Nathan's plan is really stupid (even from Nathan's perspective)! He has absolutely no reason for trying to detain all metahumans, including those who don't even have any potentially dangerous powers.

The forcus has ment to be about the people not the powers. As to nathan, whys he doing it?? well essentially he wants a "cure" and the more metahumans he catch, the more lab rats for testing he has.


I really loved this episode as HRG is one of my favorite characters. Matt's actions are very odd though, he has gotten far more darker.

i'm sure that if you thought that your partner was killed youd go to a dark place to.


It's REALLY starting to annoy me now that no one is mentioning that Nathan has powers, it would completely land him in the **** yet none of them mention it, seriously lazy writing, I could forgive it if it were just one or two scenes but it's gotten beyond a joke now.

Well Tracy has mentioned it, and its more then possible that the hunter saw the video feed when she said this and is waiting for the right momment. Also why didnt Peter say anything in this episode, well the phrase "better the devil you know comes to mind"

Shan Bruce Lee
February 27th, 2009, 02:05 AM
It's REALLY starting to annoy me now that no one is mentioning that Nathan has powers, it would completely land him in the **** yet none of them mention it, seriously lazy writing, I could forgive it if it were just one or two scenes but it's gotten beyond a joke now.

I almost expect it to happen some time near the end of the volume. If they did it now they wouldn't be able to keep both Nathan and Danko around unless Nathan joined the fugitives and that's not likely since he's a senator.

The only other option would be for one of them to kill the other. Nathan isn't gonna die because he's part of the main cast and it wouldn't make sense for them to have Danko so involved in the story to just kill him off half way thru.

jenks
February 27th, 2009, 07:37 AM
I almost expect it to happen some time near the end of the volume. If they did it now they wouldn't be able to keep both Nathan and Danko around unless Nathan joined the fugitives and that's not likely since he's a senator.

The only other option would be for one of them to kill the other. Nathan isn't gonna die because he's part of the main cast and it wouldn't make sense for them to have Danko so involved in the story to just kill him off half way thru.

Still lazy writing IMO, there's no reason why they ALL wouldn't say it let alone one, the least they could do is invent a reason why.

jds1982
March 2nd, 2009, 05:59 AM
The second problem, and a much bigger one, was the final reveal. It's bad enough that the writers have repurposed Matt into "prophecy guy", because they can't stop returning to the Isaac well again and again. But it's much worse to return to the "one of the heroes is going to destroy a city" plot device. How many times are the writers going to repeat themselves?

Well it's marginally better than the vague world exploding plot that was never really explained.

garhkal
January 12th, 2016, 12:09 AM
Wow, they are truly pathetic writers.... Peter would have lost the ability to fly as soon as he touched Parkman.

I hope Parkman dies soon. I despise that they made him a precog. Heroes' constant need to drop anvils as foreshadowing is a true example of their ineptitude as writers.

Can I now officially say that this show has jumped the shark?

He should have, but who's to say he has not learned to turn it off and on?


Personally, I enjoyed tonight's episode very much. HRG is such a complex character. I love him and hate him at the same time.:)

Yup. He is not just complex but so well acted, you just have to love to hate him.. same with Sylar.


i'm starting to lose patience with all this back and forth, is he good or bad? yadda, yadda

Same here, they seem to flip and flop more than some politicians do their political decisions..
But i can see why parkman is so distraught..


Well I actually enjoyed this episode.Yes it was a bit slow. Peter never once touch skin with Parkman, which is the only way we that peter absorbs new abilities now it seems and in the first season it was explained that he absorb the DNA of the person with other powers and incorporated it with his own. [/quote

Well there is an issue there, since he touched Trish on her CLOTHED leg while on the airplane and stole her power... So shouldn't it have done the same then? Unless as i mentioned above, he has finally learned to turn it off and on.

[QUOTE=Corgano;9809332]
And on the other hand, Nathan's plan is really stupid (even from Nathan's perspective)! He has absolutely no reason for trying to detain all metahumans, including those who don't even have any potentially dangerous powers.

it is especially when he explained it a little more later on... taking everyone so they could figure out a method of stripping everyone of their powers..



Was that a different watch he gave back to Angela?

It looked it.. IIRC the one she gave him was silver, the one he gave back was gold.