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Automission
January 24th, 2009, 09:54 AM
Does anyone know why on the boxes of both Ark Of Truth and Continuum, that all the actors names are listed on the back, yet they both have "And Michael Shanks as Daniel Jackson"? Why is it he gets his name and character name on the back, while the other actors don't?

Iawen
January 24th, 2009, 09:56 AM
MS has gotten that since season seven of SG-1; my guess it was in his contract when he returned to the show, either offered by the producers in their offer to get him back or one of his stipulations in coming back.

jollyrogue
January 24th, 2009, 10:04 AM
IIRC.. RDA got his name on most of the season box sets..

I'm also pretty sure David Hewlett got his name on the SGA opening sequence at some point in the series
"David Hewlett as Dr. Rodney McKay" or something similar

Iawen
January 24th, 2009, 10:11 AM
I meant MS has been credited "and Michael Shanks as Daniel Jackson" since season seven. As far as his name on the movies, that's probably contract reasons as well.

ShardsofGlass
January 24th, 2009, 10:56 AM
The "and Michael Shanks as ..." credit is a good credit that actors negotiate for. The best credit is first and the second best credit is last. This comes from the old vaudeville days where the audience would remember most the names of the people they heard first and last.

Superted
January 24th, 2009, 11:38 AM
In y experience if creditws show all the actors then usually the last on f the credits will show the actors character. Maybe its because they get listed last>

Flyboy
January 24th, 2009, 12:29 PM
There are four prestigious billings.

Headliners - ie 'Richard Dean Anderson' which appears before the title even appears.
Lead male - Ben Browder, which is in place of a headliner, and is the first name billed, and AFTER the title.
'With' - as in "With Beau Bridges" which is often reserved for very well known actors who aren't starring but are important enough to warrant some special treatment.
"As..." - Which is for a role which is not the 'lead male' but is a recognition of respect and salary of an important member of the cast. It's quite a privilidge to be listed 'as' something, because it suggests you are important enough to gather an audiance just from your name.

Khentkawes
January 24th, 2009, 01:04 PM
I agree with all the reasons listed so far. I just want to follow up on the post that mentioned they do this with "and David Hewlett as Rodney McKay" as well. It's sort of an acknowledgment that even though this actor is not the lead male, he's basically second lead and considered important. I doubt anyone would argue that McKay is a huge part of Atlantis, which is why he gets that billing. In the case of Daniel Jackson, I think it also helps to attract fans who remember the movie and acknowledges that his character has been a major part of the story since the beginning.

I don't recall when they started doing this with Hewlett, but with Shanks, Iawen is right, it began when he came back in season 7.
So it was probably part of the new contract. He was listed in second position before he left the show, but at that point there weren't any "with" or "as" credits as far as I can recall, so instead of bumping Tapping back down to third position, they put Shanks at the end.

Hetshepsu
January 24th, 2009, 01:24 PM
i'm pretty sure season 2 and 3 of atlantis also had Paul McGillon as Carson Beckett too....

DesertFox2020
January 24th, 2009, 01:29 PM
Yes, wasn't it that, and then "With David Hewlett as Dr. Rodney McKay.."?

Mr.MacGadget
January 24th, 2009, 01:57 PM
Yes, it's inetersting, I noticed that too - hard to not notice after so many episodes, right? :D - so, yes, it started with season 7, and it's a very flatering thing, cause under the 'and' tag, it's a really special credit for the actor. For example, in movies, if you have a supporting part in the movie, but you're a big star, usually your name belongs under the 'and'. For example, In the film Rendition, '... and Meryl Streep'
So, I guess it was a condition or something. Cause it was the return of Daniel Jackson. :D

Thunderbird 2
January 24th, 2009, 02:24 PM
There are four prestigious billings.

Headliners - ie 'Richard Dean Anderson' which appears before the title even appears.
Lead male - Ben Browder, which is in place of a headliner, and is the first name billed, and AFTER the title.
'With' - as in "With Beau Bridges" which is often reserved for very well known actors who aren't starring but are important enough to warrant some special treatment.
"As..." - Which is for a role which is not the 'lead male' but is a recognition of respect and salary of an important member of the cast. It's quite a privilidge to be listed 'as' something, because it suggests you are important enough to gather an audiance just from your name.

Very well put Flying Off-B! This is text book perfect for SG1, but not every series. It can vary. A billing can be as powerful as the Headliner, depending on the actor and the cast set up. I say that because as General Landry, Beau Bridges is and actor and name that made a lot of people sit up. - It will depend o the specifics of the contracts negotiated, and who represents the actor.

Equally in Atlantis's Second season, we have With Paul McGillion as Dr Beckett, plus And David Hewlett as Dr McKay. It can vary depending on the contracts, production company, and the country of origin. :beckettanime14:


Another example is the West Wing. Although an ensamble cast, with powerful names, the key charcter in the end is President Bartlett himself, as played by the great Martin Sheen. - He gets And Martin Sheen at the end of the opening credits right through the series.

Usually after the main cast, we have the series producers (overall and supervising) listed.


It gets more even more complicated with guest stars, ansd recurring guests.

A famous example in Trek, was Diana Muldaur who played Dr Pulaski in season 2 of TNG. Rather than getting listed in the opening credits, she requested "Special Guest Apprearance by Diana Muldaur as Dr Pulaski" at the end of the guest star listings after the main titles.
Another noted example due to her fame and popularity is Whoopi Goldberg, who got the same billling in all her appearances on that series as Guinan.

Back in The West Wing, Stockard Channing who plays first lady Dr Bartlett pops in and out of the main credits whether she is in an episode or not. Her first appearce was as a guest star listing in the first season, but her appearance was so popular the producers wanted her to do more. And more she certainly did!

Guest Starring - Actors that show up in the episode, either significant to the plot, or well known on a reccuring basis. Usually but not always, alphabetical, fading in and out one after another in turn. Using SG1 as an example... :

Tony Amendola

Carmen Argenziano

Colin Cunningham

Teryl Rothery


Grouped names - Actors with a few lines, but are notable for their appearance in the story and possible bearing on the plot. Usually there are no more than two, perhaps three groups listed, depending on the cast scale.


Tobias Mehler
Gary Jones
Dan Shea


A notable guest star, perhaps a lead or popular guest from a sister series would come under...


Special Guest Star
Paul McGillion as Dr Carson Beckett


The final cast credit is the big stop for a guest actor of especially high note, or someone of equal high status making an apperance in a cameo. As mentioned before. - This is the last opening cast credit, besides (usually) those of the writer and director of the particular episode.


Special Guest Appearance by
Gen. John P. Jumper, Chief of Staff of the Air Force, as Himself

Anyone else would be listed at the end. Usually its actors with one liners, blink and you'l miss ems, which generally are not critical to the plot itself. Sometimes a series will listed a noted actor if they make a small appearance in a different role here, such as a voicerole. Eg:



President's Aide - Aaron Pearl
1st Jaffa - Peter Deluise
2nd Jaffa - Arron Douglas
Voice of Heimdall - Teryl Rothery


Thankfully in feature films it is usually much more straightforward - due to who is getting paid the most, versus screen time. - A famous example was in The Towering Inferno. According to Wiki's entry on the film...

McQueen, Newman and Holden all tried to obtain top billing. Holden was refused as his star power was no longer considered in the league of McQueen and Newman. To provide dual top billing and mollify McQueen, the credits were arranged diagonally, with McQueen at the lower left and Newman at the upper right. Thus, each actor appeared to have top billing depending on whether the poster was read from left to right or top to bottom. Technically, McQueen has top billing and is mentioned first in the film's trailers; however, at the end of the movie, as the cast's names roll from the bottom of the screen, Newman's name is fully visible first, something McQueen apparently didn't catch. This was the first time that this type of "staggered but equal" billing had been used for a movie...


In the end though, when looking at the opening titles / post title credits, always think "Billing!"

Killdeer
January 25th, 2009, 05:24 AM
I don't recall when they started doing this with Hewlett

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was that way from the beginning.

Replicator Todd
January 25th, 2009, 06:23 AM
Yeah, Hewlett had it from the beginning of SGA, maybe MGM is fond of Doctors?

discodiva
January 25th, 2009, 06:35 AM
Yeah, Hewlett had it from the beginning of SGA, maybe MGM is fond of Doctors?


Well at least those two doctors.......they haven't been killed off - yet!!!!....;):P


Deeds xx

amconway
January 25th, 2009, 09:15 AM
Well at least those two doctors.......they haven't been killed off - yet!!!!....

Not true! One of them has been killed off repeatedly! ;)

discodiva
January 25th, 2009, 09:27 AM
Not true! One of them has been killed off repeatedly! ;)


Ack!....I forgot to add the "permanently" on the end!!!...:o;):D


Deeds xx

amconway
January 25th, 2009, 09:29 AM
Ack!....I forgot to add the "permanently" on the end!!!...

Well, to be fair, that's generally implied. ;)

millertj27
January 26th, 2009, 01:18 AM
Why did they get rid of Daniel Jackson for Season 6 and then bring him back in Season 7? I'm sure this is well know among fans but I never heard any explanation for this.

Madeleine
January 26th, 2009, 02:00 AM
Short version:

During s5, and roughly simultaneously, TPTB started to feel that Daniel was surplus to requirements and MS started to feel that he would be happier elsewhere.

During s6, TPTB decided that they wanted Daniel back in the show, and MS decided he wanted to rejoin the show.

Colonel Mitchell
January 26th, 2009, 06:10 AM
Short version:

During s5, and roughly simultaneously, TPTB started to feel that Daniel was surplus to requirements and MS started to feel that he would be happier elsewhere.

During s6, TPTB decided that they wanted Daniel back in the show, and MS decided he wanted to rejoin the show.H did have a few guest appearances in season 6 but it wasn't the same. But I liked Daniel a lot better after he came back.

Metonic
January 28th, 2009, 03:36 PM
Does anyone know why on the boxes of both Ark Of Truth and Continuum, that all the actors names are listed on the back, yet they both have "And Michael Shanks as Daniel Jackson"? Why is it he gets his name and character name on the back, while the other actors don't?

probably because of James Spader.

leiasky
January 29th, 2009, 09:46 AM
Why did they get rid of Daniel Jackson for Season 6 and then bring him back in Season 7? I'm sure this is well know among fans but I never heard any explanation for this.

This is mentioned in one of the commentaries. Maybe Abyss? I can't remember. Maybe it was a special feature. I think RDA was talking about it, so it may not be on one of the commentaries since he's never done one.

Michael felt his character was being underused and wanted to leave.