Can SGU remain true to the franchise's themes and ideals?

[Deep Like Daniel]

Let me start by saying I have been a loyal fan of the statgate franchise since the beginning and will continue to support my favorite series.

With that said I felt like Atlantis didn't do what great sci do does, make us on some way question some part of our own reality in each persons own way. Atlantis never connected the plot with parts of earth lore like SG1 (insert bsg, star trek, firefly, star wars, sanctuary, etc ). I loved that each Goauld was another part of our own perception of history rewritten. Atlantis had great actors,stories and effects, but did it ever make you think about anything that was not a plot question ( how, why, now what).

Universe needs to connect us with the story more than that they are humans from earth with problems. I hope somehow travelling onboard the destiny allows the team to discover and uncover truths about earth. Since the ancients built the ship that shouldn't be to hard to work in.

Please tell me what you think

Anyone agree???

[amconway]

Let me start by saying I have been a loyal fan of the statgate franchise since the beginning and will continue to support my favorite series.

With that said I felt like Atlantis didn't do what great sci do does, make us on some way question some part of our own reality in each persons own way. Atlantis never connected the plot with parts of earth lore like SG1 (insert bsg, star trek, firefly, star wars, sanctuary, etc ). I loved that each Goauld was another part of our own perception of history rewritten. Atlantis had great actors,stories and effects, but did it ever make you think about anything that was not a plot question ( how, why, now what).

Universe needs to connect us with the story more than that they are humans from earth with problems. I hope somehow travelling onboard the destiny allows the team to discover and uncover truths about earth. Since the ancients built the ship that shouldn't be to hard to work in.

Please tell me what you think

Anyone agree???

I did prefer SG-1 for the fact that it did touch on larger things, and that there were episodes outside the main plot arc that delved more deeply into character and mythology.

I'm not sure what you mean about Earth lore. It shared a common history with SG-1. It would be both odd and illegal in terms of copyright to delve into the mythos of other series.

I do hope that this series is less purely action oriented than Atlantis. We know that there will be more emphasis on character. Hopefully there will also be more emphasis on exploration and discovery.

[crowmagnumman]

You know, I completely agree OP. I was hoping the Wraith would connect with the vampire legends of Earth or something, but that never happened. Atlantis didn't really feel as relevant. In SG-1 you could just dig deep enough on Earth somewhere and uncover secrets of the universe. I liked all that archaeological stuff and I like how so many things tied in with Earth mythology. I really want to see that in Universe.

[Lord Anar]

Yes, I would have to agree with your assessment.

The writers were juggling two series and made errors along the way.

Those mistakes were irreversible to the Stargate franchise.

One of those misjudgments was maybe not connecting Wraith to Vampire lore.

They should have possibly introduced a new ship to fight the Wraith S4E5.

Drones do not cut it when fighting the Wraith.

They should have had given an Ancient satellite weapon a hyperdrive and shields to hunt down the Wraith, but destroy with one shot.

[the fifth man]

You know, I completely agree OP. I was hoping the Wraith would connect with the vampire legends of Earth or something, but that never happened. Atlantis didn't really feel as relevant. In SG-1 you could just dig deep enough on Earth somewhere and uncover secrets of the universe. I liked all that archaeological stuff and I like how so many things tied in with Earth mythology. I really want to see that in Universe.

More of that would have been nice.

[Khentkawes]

With that said I felt like Atlantis didn't do what great sci do does, make us on some way question some part of our own reality in each persons own way. Atlantis never connected the plot with parts of earth lore like SG1 (insert bsg, star trek, firefly, star wars, sanctuary, etc ). I loved that each Goauld was another part of our own perception of history rewritten. Atlantis had great actors,stories and effects, but did it ever make you think about anything that was not a plot question ( how, why, now what).

Universe needs to connect us with the story more than that they are humans from earth with problems. I hope somehow travelling onboard the destiny allows the team to discover and uncover truths about earth. Since the ancients built the ship that shouldn't be to hard to work in.

Please tell me what you think

Anyone agree???

I agree! I loved the mythology element of SG-1 and would like to see some of that return to Stargate as a franchise.
If there is any direct Earth mythology in SGU, it will probably be connected with the Ancients. But at the very least, I'd like to see them tackle some more serious issues... ethical issues, character issues, meaning of life type issues... something. The heart of science fiction (or at least old school sci-fi) is to ask "what if" type questions that make you think... questions about ourselves and humanity as a race. And that's something I would like to see more of in SGU.

And in regards to the part I put in bold... that's precisely my issue with Atlantis. Don't get me wrong, I watched it diligently, enjoyed it, was greatly entertained... but it never really made me think (at least not seriously. Occasionally it made me think about why the writers would make certain decisions, but usually that was because they were decisions I didn't like). SG-1 seemed like a more contemplative show. When they introduced mythology elements or serious ethical questions, they were more likely to follow up on them.

I'm not sure what you mean about Earth lore. It shared a common history with SG-1. It would be both odd and illegal in terms of copyright to delve into the mythos of other series.

I'm going to try to clarify here. I think the OP was suggesting that SG-1's connection to Earth mythologies and history was one of the strong points of the series because it allowed us as viewers to see themes and ideas that connected directly with our own history. Then the OP started to say that other shows sci-fi had successfully done the same thing. I'm pretty sure he was not suggesting that SGU should draw from the stories/mythologies of those other shows, just stating that those other sci-fi shows established a better connection between their unique world and our own world than Atlantis did.
At least, that's how I understood the original post.

[boyd18]

Atlantis took the ancients and basically made them stupid..before atlantis what we knew of the ancients was, they were a super powerful highly advance race of humans who evolved over millions of years until they reached a point where ther bodies were no longer needed and ascended to a higher plain of exsistence...they were the gate builders, they reseeded life in the milky way after a great plague swept accross the galaxy which eventually evolved into us...

we get to atlantis and we find out those same ancients were driven from the Pegasus galaxy by the far less advanced wraith...these wraith beat the ancient to there knee's until only atlantis remained...they sunk the city and returned to earth and never looked back..

but yet, it seems these humans from the milkyway has made more progress against the wraith in only 5 years then the ancients did in who knows how long they were going at it...these humans were able to use tech such as this wormhole drive, something the ancients couldn't even perfect but yet 2 or 3 guys were able to get working within a short period of time...

idk, lets just hope the ancients in stargate universe are portrayed better then they were in atlantis...

[Lt.Pianot]

Atlantis the way i see it, was more about the Ancients, during SG1, we kinda looked at them as perfect, but Daniel found out there weren't.

The GateBuilders, and the fact they allowed the goa'uld to take over that technology to a certain extent.

Atlantis is about what they left behind and the errors there technology caused..

They after all created the replicators, they kinda annoyed the Wraith...

As the second generation of Humans in the galaxy, it showed we had the chance to learn from there mistakes... and do things differently.

They are still hard to understand, which is why Daniel gets annoyed with the ascended ancients...for not helping them out more.

SG1 is about the mythology of our past came from the milky way galaxy..
and the exploration of that...
Atlantis steps over that, and explores the ancients more...

Hopefully Universe can bring those two things together more...

[amconway]

I'm going to try to clarify here. I think the OP was suggesting that SG-1's connection to Earth mythologies and history was one of the strong points of the series because it allowed us as viewers to see themes and ideas that connected directly with our own history. Then the OP started to say that other shows sci-fi had successfully done the same thing. I'm pretty sure he was not suggesting that SGU should draw from the stories/mythologies of those other shows, just stating that those other sci-fi shows established a better connection between their unique world and our own world than Atlantis did.
At least, that's how I understood the original post.

Well, I'm in complete agreement then.

I do hope that this time they go for a myth that isn't as pervasive as the vampire legend, though. You can barely flip the dial without coming up with a vampire show. Rooting the show in popular culture/mythology is the hallmark of Stargate, but it's a lot more interesting when it's something that we aren't constantly exposed to elsewhere. The Egyptian thing was perfect--something everyone was familiar with to a degree, but not recognizable from other programs.

[Briangate78]

Let me start by saying I have been a loyal fan of the statgate franchise since the beginning and will continue to support my favorite series.

With that said I felt like Atlantis didn't do what great sci do does, make us on some way question some part of our own reality in each persons own way. Atlantis never connected the plot with parts of earth lore like SG1 (insert bsg, star trek, firefly, star wars, sanctuary, etc ). I loved that each Goauld was another part of our own perception of history rewritten. Atlantis had great actors,stories and effects, but did it ever make you think about anything that was not a plot question ( how, why, now what).

Universe needs to connect us with the story more than that they are humans from earth with problems. I hope somehow travelling onboard the destiny allows the team to discover and uncover truths about earth. Since the ancients built the ship that shouldn't be to hard to work in.

Please tell me what you think

Anyone agree???

NOPE!!!! Atlantis was doing excellent, starting to really explore the Pegasus galaxy again, find new enemies, find new alliances, but alas it was canned for SGU. It's going to be very hard to get into a new series.

The setting and characters for SGA were excellent. So many more stories to be told, but they threw it out because they wanted their shiny new toy SGU.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

Atlantis took the ancients and basically made them stupid..before atlantis what we knew of the ancients was, they were a super powerful highly advance race of humans who evolved over millions of years until they reached a point where ther bodies were no longer needed and ascended to a higher plain of exsistence...they were the gate builders, they reseeded life in the milky way after a great plague swept accross the galaxy which eventually evolved into us...

we get to atlantis and we find out those same ancients were driven from the Pegasus galaxy by the far less advanced wraith...these wraith beat the ancient to there knee's until only atlantis remained...they sunk the city and returned to earth and never looked back..

but yet, it seems these humans from the milkyway has made more progress against the wraith in only 5 years then the ancients did in who knows how long they were going at it...these humans were able to use tech such as this wormhole drive, something the ancients couldn't even perfect but yet 2 or 3 guys were able to get working within a short period of time...

idk, lets just hope the ancients in stargate universe are portrayed better then they were in atlantis...

I think tptb did SGA completely wrong. It wasn't set up to last, like SG-1 was. This is partly BradW's fault and JoeM's fault.

BradW created SGA with a much narrower scope than SG-1. SG-1 had the large Milky Way galaxy, with a variety of advanced races and worlds to explore. SGA had the small Pegasus galaxy, with only the Wraith and primitive human worlds.

SGA's basic premise was good- an international expedition travels to the lost city of the Ancients ,hoping to meet the gatebuilders and discover advanced ancient technologies that could one day benefit earth. However, they find an empty city, and learn that the gatebuilders, the most advanced race to inhabit the stars, was defeated and driven from the galaxy 10,000 years ago by a dark, powerful enemy in a terrible war.

SGA's tone and atmosphere should have broken away from the classic feel of SG-1 and Stargate. A little mix of BSG and the supposed feel of SGU would have done the trick.

SGA suffered first from poor character relationships, the type tptb want to set up in SGU (it seems as though SGU might be an attempt to rectify SGA's failures, as well as a continuation of the franchise)- intercharacter conflict resulting from being thrust in a situation where they are cut off from Earth, with limited supplies. SGA's one success is it's excellent use of secondary recurring characters (such as Zelenka, Lorne, Caldwell, Bates) without limiting the main cast.

SGA also suffered from a lack of direction and poor plot concepts. Season 1, for what is was, was very good in establishing an overall arc and plot. the rest of the series failed, starting with The Siege Pt 3. A darker tone, and a more focused and interconnected, but yet open plot would have kept the show from becoming mundane( such as searching for supplies and power, establish alliances and friendships, combat the Wraith, while trying to uncover the details of the lantean-wraith war). A lot of this has to do with the creativity and skill of the writers and developers, who, to be honest, are probably not the best when it comes to developing an intricate, intelligent, and engaging story. This is where BSG has been successful, and why it's producers have been able to bring the show to a good finish, without rushing the plot or wasting screentime on random, filler episodes (episodes that are filmed because the writers have no idea how to further the plot in a creative way).

Overall, the scope and scale of SGA was too small to expand further. Everything tptb have developed would have been much better on a larger scale. the so-called "arcs" tptb have created have all ended badly. Why were Continuum and Ark of Truth no better than classic SG-1 (Seasons 1-7)? Because we are dealing with the same tptb, who ran out of ideas in seasons 9 and 10. Don't expect better quality. They have run out of ideas. For the Atlantis movie, don't expect better quality. JoeM has stated that he is using the same episode 3 act scheme for the Atlantis movie. One, this is the same producer who brought about the horrible changes that ruined the show. Second, the movie will most likely be no different than a two-part episode, and on no greater a scale.

For Universe, also the premise sounds interesting, take a step back and look at what will be involved in the series:

There will be no major enemy.

The ship will travel from galaxy to galaxy, essentially setting up the "new race/ adventure of the week scenario" that made the classic SG-1 so successful, and ruined SGA.

When the crew is not exploring other races, they will be on the ship, trying to get supplies and resolve interrelational conflicts.

Now, while it seems like a good start, especially for the first season, look back to the first season of Atlantis, and you will see that it isn't that much different, except the crew was experienced, the tensions less noticeable, and there was no variety in terms of offworld races.

However, how long do you expect Universe to last with such a narrow focus. Something will have to change in the dynamic by the second season. SGA's premise was that the expedition was stuck in another galaxy, cut off from Earth. Look how long that lasted. Either Universe will have to introduce recurring races, and enemies, or the dynamic on the ship will have to be extraordinary. A word of caution, let it be noted that tptb are not that exceptional when it comes to relationships. The tensions of classic SG-1 didn't last beyond the third season (that includes those between Oneill and Daniel, the Sgc and Kinsey, and the SGC and the rogue NID). And remember, the anchor, the driving force of SG-1 was the desire to defeat the Goauld, and the desire to explore the galaxy, meet advanced races, and get advanced technology. Universe has very little, besides the character tensions, getting new technology/meeting new races, and trying to get home.

With that premise, it can't last that long.

[Quinn Mallory]

I would have to disagree. I don't think tying things up to the Earth's lore adds anything to the show. Toward the end of SGA (when it was the only show), they were definitely making the show that much more involved with Earth (not to mention the way things ended)...so I guess TPTB may feel that way to a degree.

As for SGU, I don't think they need to find anything out that is tied to Earth's history, particularly with them that much further away and the supposedly break from visiting every planets with human speaking English in forests that look like Vancouver.

[mtlhddoc2]

This show, to simplify things is Star Trek Lite.

Bear with me here.

Stargate the Movie was Star Trek the Original Series
SG1 was the Next Generation
SGA was Deep Space 9
and now Universe is Voyager

Seriously, the parallels are all there as far as major plot points, except that the Movie and SG1 was more of a re-imagining than a continuation...

[amconway]

This show, to simplify things is Star Trek Lite.

Bear with me here.

Stargate the Movie was Star Trek the Original Series
SG1 was the Next Generation
SGA was Deep Space 9
and now Universe is Voyager

Seriously, the parallels are all there as far as major plot points, except that the Movie and SG1 was more of a re-imagining than a continuation...

I'd have to disagree with that. Stargate has a completely different tone than Star Trek.

The movie was different enough, that while canon, it is more of an inspiration than an actual part of the TV brand of Stargate.

We know very little about what Universe will be except that it will take place on a ship. You might as well compare it to the Odyssey (Homer, not ship )

[jelgate]

I for one am sick of the Voyager comparsions. I can think of 10 SciFi shows on the top of my head that are about returning home. Its an old SciFi concept. And I'm sorry SGA wasn't dark and have the right arcs to look like DS9