How does John Druitt know Ashley is his ? Spoilers for Season 1 including finale

[lacka1986]

Ok, let me say that I am a MAJOR John Druitt fan, and I know there is a John Druitt "thunk" thread. I just have a question that is separate from that...

How is it possible that John knows Ashley is his daughter? Didn't Helen say she had frozen embryos that she implanted when she could "No longer handle the loneliness" Which I am guessing is long after she lost contact with John.

Now I understand that John would have been aware of her doing the IVF and freezing the embryos, because he had to do his part to make them. But how does he know that Ashley has come from those embryos and that Helen didn't have a more recent lover which resulted in Ashley's birth...


I just think it's odd that he shows up out of no where and automatically assumes that Ashley is his daughter. Did I miss the explanation to this?

[Inward Wind]

Spoiler for Revelations here..

Spoiler:

There is proof at the end when Ashley uses her inherited, unknown at that time, power to teleport. Which is the same power as Druitts.

Other than that we just always assumed Helen would be telling the truth. Who would lie to their daughter that her father was JTR???????

[lacka1986]

Spoiler for Revelations here..

Spoiler:

There is proof at the end when Ashley uses her inherited, unknown at that time, power to teleport. Which is the same power as Druitts.

Other than that we just always assumed Helen would be telling the truth. Who would lie to their daughter that her father was JTR???????

That's not what I mean. I know WE know that he is her father because we see Helen tell Will that. But how does JOHN know. If that was the first time he had seen Helen since his JTR days. How would he possibly know that. But when he meets her she asks who he is and he replies "Just someone new in town. Beyond that, I wouldn't want to spoil the surprise." Which implies that he knows she is his kid.

[jasminaGo]

I was curious about that myself. Maybe we'll find out in S2.

[Inward Wind]

Ah! Sorry, misunderstood your question. You're right; I don't think we've been told how he would know. Good possible backstory episode for next season.

[Aurora24]

Just a guess, but maybe John was keeping track of what Helen was doing without actually making contact till he needed to in order to get some of her blood. Either that or when he met Ashley he saw enough characteristics in her that were similar to himself that he was able to figure it out. Personally I'm leaning toward the latter theory because given how hurt he was when Helen told him that she hadn't told Ashley that John was her father I think that if he had known before then he would have made some effort to have been part of Ashley's life, even if he was still more than a little messed up at the time.

[lacka1986]

Personally I'm leaning toward the latter theory because given how hurt he was when Helen told him that she hadn't told Ashley that John was her father

Was this reaction in the webisodes or the episodes?

[lupinskitten]

Or he knew Helen was pregnant before she broke off their marriage plans...

John obviously knew enough when he showed up in the pilot episode to follow Ashley and initiate contact with her, because he knew she would run home and tell Helen about it. I suspect it's either that he knew about the pregnancy and also knew what Helen did about it, or he found out Magnus had a daughter and suspected the truth. Or it could be as others said, he followed the inner workings of Helen's life for awhile and discerned what had happened. John had an obsession with Helen. I know that final murder in the ally was the last time she saw him, but it may not have been the last time HE saw HER...

[Aurora24]

Was this reaction in the webisodes or the episodes?

Unfortunately never saw the webisodes (although if I could find them I'd love to). I was referring to them meeting during the first tv episode, thinking that maybe when they were talking and fighting John might have seen something in her that told him that Ashley was his.

[majorsal]

Ok, let me say that I am a MAJOR John Druitt fan, and I know there is a John Druitt "thunk" thread. I just have a question that is separate from that...

How is it possible that John knows Ashley is his daughter? Didn't Helen say she had frozen embryos that she implanted when she could "No longer handle the loneliness" Which I am guessing is long after she lost contact with John.

Now I understand that John would have been aware of her doing the IVF and freezing the embryos, because he had to do his part to make them. But how does he know that Ashley has come from those embryos and that Helen didn't have a more recent lover which resulted in Ashley's birth...


I just think it's odd that he shows up out of no where and automatically assumes that Ashley is his daughter. Did I miss the explanation to this?

it hasn't been explained yet, hopefully yet.

speculating... when helen found out she was pregnant, john was already deeply into doing bad things (jack-the-ripper), so she decided to leave and hide. john 'might' have known she was pregnant and started trying to find her immediately.

this is only speculating, but it's fun.

[lacka1986]

Or he knew Helen was pregnant before she broke off their marriage plans...

But they broke off their engagement in the late 1880's and Ashley is mentioned to be 23 which means she was born around 1985. Helen was pregnant for almost 100 years that way!! I assumed that Helen and John had done IVF which is putting the sperm and egg together in a lab. then freezing it for later (Or you can use it right away). Helen does mention to Will that she had a frozen embryo. That's how I came to this conclusion. I am almost 100% certain that you can not remove a pregnancy from yourself and THEN freeze it.

Besides, in the 1800's premarital sex would ruin a women's reputation. I find it hard to believe that Helen would do it.... But I could be wrong...

[SamJackShipLover]

But they broke off their engagement in the late 1880's and Ashley is mentioned to be 23 which means she was born around 1985. Helen was pregnant for almost 100 years that way!! I assumed that Helen and John had done IVF which is putting the sperm and egg together in a lab. then freezing it for later (Or you can use it right away). Helen does mention to Will that she had a frozen embryo. That's how I came to this conclusion. I am almost 100% certain that you can not remove a pregnancy from yourself and THEN freeze it.

Besides, in the 1800's premarital sex would ruin a women's reputation. I find it hard to believe that Helen would do it.... But I could be wrong...

I think the bolded statement is true, but 100 years ago you also couldn't do IVF. So, for the show, I think it could've been both. I always interpreted it as that she removed the embryo from herself.

[JanSam]

But they broke off their engagement in the late 1880's and Ashley is mentioned to be 23 which means she was born around 1985. Helen was pregnant for almost 100 years that way!! I assumed that Helen and John had done IVF which is putting the sperm and egg together in a lab. then freezing it for later (Or you can use it right away). Helen does mention to Will that she had a frozen embryo. That's how I came to this conclusion. I am almost 100% certain that you can not remove a pregnancy from yourself and THEN freeze it.

Perhaps a transcript of Sanctuary Part Two would help with this discussion..

John “You have no idea what it’s been like; alone, wandering this God forsaken world. Wanting only peace. A fragment of what we had. What I lost.”

Helen- “You have nothing to gain by harming her, or me.”

Ashley- “Mom shoot him!”

John- “Drop the pretense you know why I’ve come and what I want. It’s all within reach. Everything I’ve ever wanted.”

Later

John- “She clearly doesn’t know.”

Helen- “How could I possibly tell her?”

John- “She must have asked, how she came by her killer instincts.”

Helen- “She thinks her father is dead.”

The ending.


Will- “My God. You treated one of the most notorious serial killers of all time.”

Helen- “He wasn’t always that. He was dying. I gave him my blood to prolong his life. But it all went wrong.”

Flashback to 1880s....John introduces Helen as his "finance or should I say former finance".

Helen- “I spent all the intervening years trying to undo that mistake.”

Will- “He was more than your patient wasn’t he.”

Helen doesn’t answer but gives Will a look.

Will- “Ashley.”

Helen- “I kept the embryo frozen for over a century until I could bare the loneliness no longer. I brought it to term believing John was gone for good. I under estimated his determination.”


Perhaps it is in the webisodes that it is made clearer that Helen had frozen the embryo once she found out what John's illness had done to him. I remember lots of discussion on how she possibly could have frozen an embryo in the 1880s. Someone did point out that Damian mentioned that he liked steam punk; where science is just mentioned and the how is not always explained, just accepted.

Besides, in the 1800's premarital sex would ruin a women's reputation. I find it hard to believe that Helen would do it.... But I could be wrong...

In my opinion of Helen she didn't really care what other people thought. Women in higher levels of education or position was also frowned upon but this didn't stop her from auditing classes or bucking the system as John hinted to in The Five.

[lacka1986]

I think the bolded statement is true, but 100 years ago you also couldn't do IVF. So, for the show, I think it could've been both. I always interpreted it as that she removed the embryo from herself.

Yes but a pregnancy that has already started in you uterus is attatched So pulling it out would effectively kill it. It seems more reasonable for me that someone who has a higher understanding of science in the 1800's would be able to master something that we can NOW do. But even now in the 21st century we can't safely un-implant an embryo... IVF is just easier, and in my opinion explains how John might even have an inkling that Ashley is his. If he was in on the IVF plan then he knew th Embryos existed, meaning that Ashley could possibly be his child. But if she was pregnant when they broke up, unless she TOLD him she was pregnant, he couldn't possibly just know. The baby is only an embryo for the first 4 weeks of pregnancy, modern pregnancy tests will show positive at about 4 weeks, so it's unlikely that Helen would even know she was pregnant before the embryonic phase of pregnancy was over...

This is getting quite technical! I think the idea that makes the most sense is that John was just keeping track of Helen and that's how he knew. But I would like to think that he would attempt to make contact with his daughter before she was 23! He was a 'proper' Englishman after all! However perhaps because of his "madness" he didn't care as much as he would have in his right mind...

[SamJackShipLover]

Yes but a pregnancy that has already started in you uterus is attatched So pulling it out would effectively kill it. It seems more reasonable for me that someone who has a higher understanding of science in the 1800's would be able to master something that we can NOW do. But even now in the 21st century we can't safely un-implant an embryo... IVF is just easier, and in my opinion explains how John might even have an inkling that Ashley is his. If he was in on the IVF plan then he knew th Embryos existed, meaning that Ashley could possibly be his child. But if she was pregnant when they broke up, unless she TOLD him she was pregnant, he couldn't possibly just know. The baby is only an embryo for the first 4 weeks of pregnancy, modern pregnancy tests will show positive at about 4 weeks, so it's unlikely that Helen would even know she was pregnant before the embryonic phase of pregnancy was over...

This is getting quite technical! I think the idea that makes the most sense is that John was just keeping track of Helen and that's how he knew. But I would like to think that he would attempt to make contact with his daughter before she was 23! He was a 'proper' Englishman after all! However perhaps because of his "madness" he didn't care as much as he would have in his right mind...

I know you are right and it would be pretty impossible, but I just shrugged and thought Sci Fi ... anything is possible. Actually, thinking about it now, I didn't even really think that much about it lol and just went with the "she was pregnant and took it out" idea... 1800's IVF sounds more logical now though. It's an interesting point, both about the pregnancy/embryo and about John knowing. I wonder if they're going to address it in S2.