Sam had no place in this episode

[Vala_M]

I know this won't be a popular message but I did my best to write it politely so I would appreciate it if the message stays as-is.


I just think she was there because she had another episode to do in her contract since the beginning of season 5. She really didn't do anything other than "Sorry, the chair was destroyed"

IF anyone from SG-1 should have been in this episode, it should have been Mitchell, they could even had a Mitchell and Sheppard F-302's against the darts scene and that would have been much better than Sheppard with the random guy who got blown up!

And I really hate how Sam's character has been written since SG-1 ended, she went from team scientist to leader of this, that and the next thing.

Sam isn't leader material, her time on Atlantis was due to bad writing and the show kicking off Torri Higginson, as was her [Sam's] time leading SG-1, that is the REAL REASON they brought in Mitchell (let's be honest with ourselves, the REAL world reason they brought in Mitchell was because Sam wasn't leader material, NOT because Sam left to work in Area 51). I actually wish they just went with Woolsey back in season 4, at least if they did that, we could have had 2 seasons with Woosley because one isn't enough. I think that a new character needs at least 2 seasons to have enough like with Mitchell and Landry.

They have been promoting Sam too early for a couple of years now. I still wish that she was still Maj. Carter.

Now she's going to command a ship? As I said above, she's NOT leader material. I think this is too much. And worse is because that was written in an ATLANTIS episode, AT LEAST save this news for the SG-1 movie. I LOVE Atlantis but I don't think it's right to make SG-1 storyline changes in an Atlantis episode anymore than SG-1 writing changes to Atlantis in an SG-1 episode.

I KNOW they have BUDGET limitations but it's the last episode, couldn't they spend a little more to get Ben Browder to play Mitchell?

Vala,

[s09119]

I disagree on the leader part, I think she makes a fine commander. She should have been made head of SG-1 when O'Neill left, and Mitchell is in no way a better leader than she is; if anything, I'd rank them equally, and her experience should easily put her over him.

That said, I agree with the rest; Carter had no real purpose in this episode except to draw in SG-1 views, fulfill the contract, and I guess toss in a hot blond to grab the channel-surfer.

[Flyboy]

*whistles*


You have a lot of points there, more than simply Sam having a place in the episode... so let's tackle them.

I just think she was there because she had another episode to do in her contract since the beginning of season 5. She really didn't do anything other than "Sorry, the chair was destroyed"

Actually, I'd say she was probably there because like it or not, Carter is, since S4, a Stargate Atlantis character, and after her very immediate removal from command at the start of S5 needed some kind of closure to her character within the series, despite her Sg1 movie outings, to catch up with her and see that she's doing fine. She may not have done much, but someone HAS to do it. And if it hadn't have been her, it would probably have been General Landry.

IF anyone from SG-1 should have been in this episode, it should have been Mitchell, they could even had a Mitchell and Sheppard F-302's against the darts scene and that would have been much better than Sheppard with the random guy who got blown up!

I disagree. For one thing, despite the fact that SG1 back in the day was my preferred show - this is SGA, and whilst, it defies all logic not to have SG1 saving the day regarding an Earth based threat, they have no place in the SGA finale AT ALL - it would have been nice if someone had said WHY they weren't around but that's not the point. Mitchell going Top Gun is something for an SG1 movie or episode, not an SGA one. We need to stop thinking of Carter as SG1 now. She's not. And no Sg1 main characters appeared in this episode.

I do however - believe Landry would have been a much better choice for the role that Sam played in this episode - not only to give the episode a much more grandure feel to it, but simply because it's his damn command, and he HAS appeared in SGA before, without stealing the spotlight.

And I really hate how Sam's character has been written since SG-1 ended, she went from team scientist to leader of this, that and the next thing.

Sam isn't leader material, her time on Atlantis was due to bad writing and the show kicking off Torri Higginson, as was her [Sam's] time leading SG-1, that is the REAL REASON they brought in Mitchell (let's be honest with ourselves, the REAL world reason they brought in Mitchell was because Sam wasn't leader material, NOT because Sam left to work in Area 51). I actually wish they just went with Woolsey back in season 4, at least if they did that, we could have had 2 seasons with Woosley because one isn't enough. I think that a new character needs at least 2 seasons to have enough like with Mitchell and Landry.

Like it or not, as an officer in the military, regardless of specialisation, you are a leader of men first and foremost (unless you're a pilot and then you're gash ). Now. I will agree, Carter was not a good choice to command SG1, because she's not, unlike O'Neill, a specialy trained field operative. She's a scientist on a field team. Experience may count for a lot, but after O'Neill got promoted, a new Colonel should have been put in command.

HOWEVER. This does not mean Mitchell - as I'm sorry, but as a pilot with no specialist ground training beyond that he would have received as part of officer training, he has no right to command a field unit.

BUT - back to Sam. There are many types of leader, and whilst she should not ever be a field leader, there's NO reason that she shouldn't become a base commander. My station commander is an Engineering Officer - not the first branch you think of when it comes to leadership, but this is what happens as one advanced and gets promotion - you end up moving away from doing the work you originally joined for - flying, fighting, fixing things, and start recieving command positions. Frankly - Sam being posted to Atlantis as the CO was, imo, a damn site more realistic than her recieving a field command. (Apart from the IOA giving the position to a military officer in the USAF, but hey).

They have been promoting Sam too early for a couple of years now. I still wish that she was still Maj. Carter.

Yes. They have. But she shouldn't be a major. She should still be at a Lt Colonel rank, promotion to full bird was the only promotion that came too soon, but that of course was simply so she had authority over Sheppard.

Now she's going to command a ship? As I said above, she's NOT leader material. I think this is too much. And worse is because that was written in an ATLANTIS episode, AT LEAST save this news for the SG-1 movie. I LOVE Atlantis but I don't think it's right to make SG-1 storyline changes in an Atlantis episode anymore than SG-1 writing changes to Atlantis in an SG-1 episode.

She's not FIELD leader material. But I concur, commanding a ship is (not only a STEP DOWN from being a base commander, but) definitely not the sort of job she should be doing. She should be base commander of Area 51 (which could have easily been worked into EatG. Promotion takes you away from combat, not further towards it. But then, I disagree with the USAF commanding the ships anyway...

It's obvious however that the only reason for giving Carter a ship to command is not to upset the Sam fans. Mitchell retains his command of SG1 - thus not upsetting Mitchell fans. Carter gets something else - which seems odd as Mitchell was Carter's senior. You'd have thought, particularly with him being a pilot first and foremost (btw I pretend Carter ISN'T a pilot - as that's too damn silly for words), he'd get that position. But then we'd be back with Sam being IC SG1... which doesn;t work... They should not never have brought her back from Area 51...

I KNOW they have BUDGET limitations but it's the last episode, couldn't they spend a little more to get Ben Browder to play Mitchell?

Vala,

Why? He's an SG1 character and certainly has LESS place in the episode than Carter.

I disagree on the leader part, I think she makes a fine commander. She should have been made head of SG-1 when O'Neill left, and Mitchell is in no way a better leader than she is; if anything, I'd rank them equally, and her experience should easily put her over him.

Problem is, O'Neill is the only one suitable for the type of command that SG1 is, out of the 3 OC's it's had that is. Mitchell is LESS qualified than Carter frankly, as he hadn't had the 8 years experience - but Carter was equally unqualified to LEAD Sg-1, and in fact, would not be able to put her science skills to good use if she was having to lead. Classic Sg1 saw many examples where Sam had to be left on her own to do science stuff whilst O;Neill lead from the front. Carter can't do both, no matter how great she is. Now, stick a NEW scientist in SG1, give Carter an intensive specialist field training course, and you're talking.

[gateraid]

I like SG1 Sam, but even I find it hard to disagree with what you've posted

Actually, I'd say she was probably there because like it or not, Carter is, since S4, a Stargate Atlantis character, and after her very immediate removal from command at the start of S5 needed some kind of closure to her character within the series, despite her Sg1 movie outings, to catch up with her and see that she's doing fine. She may not have done much, but someone HAS to do it. And if it hadn't have been her, it would probably have been General Landry.

Not to mention the fact that origanally this would have carried through into the next season, so she would have at least been in the season opener, plus

Spoiler:

(s5/6)

Spoiler:

if what I've heard is true, Atlantis was to remain on earth in the short term, leading to a generally blending of SGA and the SGC

I disagree. For one thing, despite the fact that SG1 back in the day was my preferred show - this is SGA, and whilst, it defies all logic not to have SG1 saving the day regarding an Earth based threat, they have no place in the SGA finale AT ALL - it would have been nice if someone had said WHY they weren't around but that's not the point. Mitchell going Top Gun is something for an SG1 movie or episode, not an SGA one. We need to stop thinking of Carter as SG1 now. She's not. And no Sg1 main characters appeared in this episode.

I do however - believe Landry would have been a much better choice for the role that Sam played in this episode - not only to give the episode a much more grandure feel to it, but simply because it's his damn command, and he HAS appeared in SGA before, without stealing the spotlight.

I also think Landry would have been a better choice. It made it look like a lowly Colonel was in charge of Earth's entire defence network (although one could argue that that is not much different to her previous position in the PG). Perhaps that choice was made due to money or actor availability

They may also have wanted to stay away from a Lost City type situation, where all the decisions were actually made at the White House.

Like it or not, as an officer in the military, regardless of specialisation, you are a leader of men first and foremost (unless you're a pilot and then you're gash ). Now. I will agree, Carter was not a good choice to command SG1, because she's not, unlike O'Neill, a specialy trained field operative. She's a scientist on a field team. Experience may count for a lot, but after O'Neill got promoted, a new Colonel should have been put in command.

HOWEVER. This does not mean Mitchell - as I'm sorry, but as a pilot with no specialist ground training beyond that he would have received as part of officer training, he has no right to command a field unit.

BUT - back to Sam. There are many types of leader, and whilst she should not ever be a field leader, there's NO reason that she shouldn't become a base commander. My station commander is an Engineering Officer - not the first branch you think of when it comes to leadership, but this is what happens as one advanced and gets promotion - you end up moving away from doing the work you originally joined for - flying, fighting, fixing things, and start recieving command positions. Frankly - Sam being posted to Atlantis as the CO was, imo, a damn site more realistic than her recieving a field command. (Apart from the IOA giving the position to a military officer in the USAF, but hey).

Well I don't think a Lt Colonel should have been in charge of the flagship team during s8-10 (three years, plus whatever happened after SG1 ended). If Hammond walked into the proverbial iris, Jack was the next in line. I find it unrealistic that the defacto 2IC of a highly classified base would be a Lt Colonel, let alone an off world team leader. And lets not start on Uninvited

Yes. They have. But she shouldn't be a major. She should still be at a Lt Colonel rank, promotion to full bird was the only promotion that came too soon, but that of course was simply so she had authority over Sheppard.

You'd know more about promotions than I, but she's actually a full bird prior to taking over Atlantis (Shep congratulates her at the end of Lifeline). Although it does seem odd that she'd be promoted and then put on what seems like (to me) detached service to get the midway station up and running

She's not FIELD leader material. But I concur, commanding a ship is (not only a STEP DOWN from being a base commander, but) definitely not the sort of job she should be doing. She should be base commander of Area 51 (which could have easily been worked into EatG. Promotion takes you away from combat, not further towards it. But then, I disagree with the USAF commanding the ships anyway...

It's obvious however that the only reason for giving Carter a ship to command is not to upset the Sam fans. Mitchell retains his command of SG1 - thus not upsetting Mitchell fans. Carter gets something else - which seems odd as Mitchell was Carter's senior. You'd have thought, particularly with him being a pilot first and foremost (btw I pretend Carter ISN'T a pilot - as that's too damn silly for words), he'd get that position. But then we'd be back with Sam being IC SG1... which doesn;t work... They should not never have brought her back from Area 51...

I agree, a ship command seems a step down now, especially for someone of her background. Would have been an easy way to keep her in the show though, as would command of area 51 given the proposals for s6
But I don't think he is her senior now, given that (as far as we know within the franschise) she's been promoted and he hasn't. Continuum is after s4, yet he's still listed as a Lt Colonel.

Why? He's an SG1 character and certainly has LESS place in the episode than Carter.

Possibly the point was that he was a good pilot, and presumably vastly more experienced with 302's than Shep, considering his first flight was in s2's Intruder. But for that matter, why didn't Lorne fly Atlantis instead of Carson, Shep go straight to the chair, or Carter lead the 302 squadron, or.........

[ToasterOnFire]

I wish they had spent less time on SG1 characters (3 in one ep, fcol) and more time on SGA characters. Because, you know, it was the SGA finale...

[Reiko]

I'm inclined to agree with the OP.

As a general disclaimer, I've never liked Sam in Atlantis (as a regular character). I wasn't really a diehard SG1 fan and she wasn't my favourite character in SG1. And with that out of the way, I will proceed.

No, Sam had no place in this episode. She was there, because for one it's well-known that she's one of TPTB's favourite characters. (Face it: if she wasn't, they would have tossed her out in space in s5 like they did to Elizabeth.) Yes, she was on Atlantis for a season, but she is still heavily an SG1 character. She doesn't just have her roots on that show (like Elizabeth, Woolsey, or McKay). She is that show, a large part of it.

I think Landry would be a much more appropriate candidate to 'welcome' Atlantis to Earth. He's not blonde, doesn't have boobs, and doesn't cater to that male demographic, but he's more suited to that sort of role that Carter could ever be.

[Cautious Explorer]

Agreed. I think the finale of SGA should have been devoted to the team, which was sorely missing for most of the season. I was annoyed that Shep was called back to Earth, splitting up the team once again. And for what? Talking head shots at the SGC?

If we had to involve the SGC, it should have been Landry. He's the established leader there. But TPTB have been trying to shove Carter into SGA since season two, so it's not really a surprise.

If not Carter, it probably would have meant more Keller time, so a no-win situtation there.

It's just too bad that SGA wasn't allowed to have the finale to itself. IMO no SGC or SG-1 required, thanks.

[bluealien]

I know this won't be a popular message but I did my best to write it politely so I would appreciate it if the message stays as-is.


I just think she was there because she had another episode to do in her contract since the beginning of season 5. She really didn't do anything other than "Sorry, the chair was destroyed"

IF anyone from SG-1 should have been in this episode, it should have been Mitchell, they could even had a Mitchell and Sheppard F-302's against the darts scene and that would have been much better than Sheppard with the random guy who got blown up!

And I really hate how Sam's character has been written since SG-1 ended, she went from team scientist to leader of this, that and the next thing.

Sam isn't leader material, her time on Atlantis was due to bad writing and the show kicking off Torri Higginson, as was her [Sam's] time leading SG-1, that is the REAL REASON they brought in Mitchell (let's be honest with ourselves, the REAL world reason they brought in Mitchell was because Sam wasn't leader material, NOT because Sam left to work in Area 51). I actually wish they just went with Woolsey back in season 4, at least if they did that, we could have had 2 seasons with Woosley because one isn't enough. I think that a new character needs at least 2 seasons to have enough like with Mitchell and Landry.

They have been promoting Sam too early for a couple of years now. I still wish that she was still Maj. Carter.

Now she's going to command a ship? As I said above, she's NOT leader material. I think this is too much. And worse is because that was written in an ATLANTIS episode, AT LEAST save this news for the SG-1 movie. I LOVE Atlantis but I don't think it's right to make SG-1 storyline changes in an Atlantis episode anymore than SG-1 writing changes to Atlantis in an SG-1 episode.

I KNOW they have BUDGET limitations but it's the last episode, couldn't they spend a little more to get Ben Browder to play Mitchell?

Vala,

I disagree about Sam not being leader material. She is great leader material IMO.. but the tpb were trying not to have her step on too many toes so they didnt allow her to diplay her leadership abilities as much as she should have been allowed to. But when she did get the opportunity she did a fine job, and I felt she was really getting into her stride in Search and Rescue where she displayed top notch leadership abilities.

Though having said all that I don't think Sam or any SG1 character should have been in the last episode..or been a full time cast member on SGA... this was SGA's final episode and not SG1's.. they already had theirs.

I would have preferred if they had left SGA separate from SG1.. the odd cameo appearance but not an SG1 permanent cross over character and certaintly no SG1 characters in SGA's final episode. I would much rather see more screentime devoted to Teyla and Ronon than to all the SG1 heads we got..

[Avenger]

I love it when people jump to absurd conclusions and try to present them as fact. Everyone is free to their own opinions, mind you, but it's not as simple as "they should have used Landry or Mitchell". Maybe they wanted to use Landry, but Beau Bridges wasn't available. And the use of Major Davis and Walter, who are minor characters, was to establish that they were at the SGC. It's not as if they didn't have their place.

And further {mod snip} assumptions are these AT contract comments. Every time she appears, it always comes up and every time it. We do not know what AT's contract stated with regards to her appearing in season 5. Pretending that anyone here actual does is foolish.

[tech100]

I was thinking that the writing for Sam Carter in this episode was written for someone else. I just didn't feel like the writting was her that the writting was meant for General Landry.

But the scene were Sheppard and Carter are talking about the Hamond (new ship) was good.

[magictrick]

Probably the only upside of this episode was having an SG-1 character in it. Maybe Sam wasn't top choice, Mitchell would've also made sense, but at least she was there and was actually used for dialogue.

[Cautious Explorer]

Probably the only upside of this episode was having an SG-1 character in it. Maybe Sam wasn't top choice, Mitchell would've also made sense, but at least she was there and was actually used for dialogue.

I don't follow your logic. Why would an SG-1 character be the only upside in an SGA finale? The show is SGA, not SG-1.

[magictrick]

I don't follow your logic. Why would an SG-1 character be the only upside in an SGA finale? The show is SGA, not SG-1.

I was just stating in my opinion the episode was really weak. However, it was good that they chose to involve someone from Stargate command (a prominent SG-1 character) in the episode, seeing as how the Wraith threat was headed to Earth.

[kennythewraith]

I love it when people jump to absurd conclusions and try to present them as fact. Everyone is free to their own opinions, mind you, but it's not as simple as "they should have used Landry or Mitchell". Maybe they wanted to use Landry, but Beau Bridges wasn't available. And the use of Major Davis and Walter, who are minor characters, was to establish that they were at the SGC. It's not as if they didn't have their place.

And further {mod snip} assumptions are these AT contract comments. Every time she appears, it always comes up and every time it. We do not know what AT's contract stated with regards to her appearing in season 5. Pretending that anyone here actual does is foolish.

i agree...just because an sg1 star makes an appearance doesnt mean it was always supposed to be that person.its all about availability and whether the actors even want to do the episode.its not just dumb decisions like everyone seems to think

[Khentkawes]

I do agree with the OP that Sam isn't leadership material. For one thing, it takes away from her expertise as a scientist. And since she is a genius astrophysicist and expert on stargates/wormholes, that's where her focus should be, not on command... unless it's command of a science team or science expedition. I don't expect many people to agree with me, but that's still my opinion, and I felt the same way in season 8 when she was supposed to be commanding SG-1.

I also agree that Sam really had no place in this episode. If they needed to show the SGC commander, they should have been consistent and had Landry there. It would have made much more sense. Now if Beau Bridges wasn't available, or if they still wanted to include Sam, I think they could have found other ways to do it (the explanation that she could have been head of Area 51 is a good idea... they could have had her working on the Antarctic chair, or with some other piece of technology that they were hoping would be able to protect Earth from the Wraith). I do feel like Sam is both an SG1 and SGA character, so I don't object to her being in the episode in general. I just object to the way they went about doing it because the explanation was weak... hence, IMO, they either should have come up with a better role for her to play or left her out entirely.