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GateWorld
January 10th, 2009, 10:31 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s5/index.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/graphics/507.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">LOST SEASON FIVE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s5/index.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE LIFE AND DEATH OF JEREMY BENTHAM</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 507</FONT>
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John Locke returns to the mainland to try and convince the Oceanic 6 to return to the island, and finds that he no longer knows what hsi fate is -- or who he can trust.

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HAL2100
February 25th, 2009, 07:08 PM
Locke could never have driven the car with a cast on his RIGHT foot - even if he could have gotten from the backseat to the driver's seat. The cast should have at least been on his left foot.

TheRandomOne
February 25th, 2009, 07:11 PM
Now know who the bad guy is

HAL2100
February 25th, 2009, 07:25 PM
Now know who the bad guy is

...and that would be who? Widmore? Ben? The guy on the street corner that was selling Rolexes that saw Ben go in and then come out of the hotel?

the fifth man
February 25th, 2009, 07:34 PM
Nice episode tonight. I am getting more and more into this show.

TheRandomOne
February 25th, 2009, 07:34 PM
...and that would be who? Widmore? Ben? The guy on the street corner that was selling Rolexes that saw Ben go in and then come out of the hotel?

Ben going by the last scene & the fact that he lies his ass off every chance he gets

Amalthea
February 25th, 2009, 08:48 PM
That was an awesome episode. It opens up a lot of questions. I really hope we get an all-Ben episode soon. I want to see him get a smackdown by Ms. Hawking when she tells him that he still needs John.

Alan Wake
February 25th, 2009, 10:01 PM
Well... what can i say? I was taken so off guard with ben killing locke. I really was not expecting that at all.

I'm really starting to think that Ben might be the real enemy all along, and Widmore might be on the "good/better" side. That would be a really good twist that would have thrown me off for 5 seasons.

This show just keeps getting better!

The week along breaks are killing me though... it's almost to the point where i want to wait fot this season to be done, and then watch all the episodes together :o

I have a question though... where did the bunker they were staying in come from? i've been wondering that.

retiredat44
February 25th, 2009, 10:40 PM
who is this new guy that crashes with them the second time around? This guy is acting like a leader and also acts like he is on a search to find the island, and purposley got on the flight. This was the guy who gave Jack his condolences for his friends Locke's death, in the airport, before they boarded the flight. After the crash, he survived and then he was rifling through this bunker and all the lockers and desks and found that shotgun that he stashed in his bag. he is creaping me out. He was interegating Locke on the island. :wraithanime11:

Shan Bruce Lee
February 26th, 2009, 01:22 AM
"Waaaaaalllllt!!" lol

Even though he's not my favorite character, I believe Locke is maybe the most complex character on television. I love how even though he's been thru all of the **** he's been thru, he ends up right back in the same place he was in the start of season one sitting on the beach with this sense of inner peace. And in spite of all the confusion and questions he's left with. Even if it won't last very long.

They explained a lot of the stuff we've seen so far in season 5 too. Like who was in the other canoe shooting at Sawyer and Co.

What Abaddon said to Locke about telling him to go on the Walkabout makes me think Widmore is responsible for manipulating the situation to get all the Losties on the plane in the first place. Including having the fortune teller talk Claire into giving her kid up for adoption in L.A., tricking Sawyer into thinking the real Sawyer was in Sydney, and killing Christian.

Alan Wake
February 26th, 2009, 01:25 AM
They explained a lot of the stuff we've seen so far in season 5 too. Like who was in the other canoe shooting at Sawyer and Co.

Please explain?

Shan Bruce Lee
February 26th, 2009, 01:26 AM
Locke could never have driven the car with a cast on his RIGHT foot - even if he could have gotten from the backseat to the driver's seat. The cast should have at least been on his left foot.

That's seriously not an issue. For one thing, we don't know how long he'd had the cast on at that point. They'd already done a lot of traveling before that. And secondly, in a life or death situation like that it's not too far-fetched to think he could do it.

Shan Bruce Lee
February 26th, 2009, 01:30 AM
Please explain?

In one of the scenes were Locke was talking to the woman on the beach, they were messing with the canoes behind them. Those were the same canoes that Sawyer, Locke and everybody stole right after they found the water-bottle in the camp, and Juliet said the name on the water-bottle was the name of an airline (can't remember the exact name but it's the same airline the Oceanic 6 were on when they came back to the island last week)

Alan Wake
February 26th, 2009, 01:43 AM
In one of the scenes were Locke was talking to the woman on the beach, they were messing with the canoes behind them. Those were the same canoes that Sawyer, Locke and everybody stole right after they found the water-bottle in the camp, and Juliet said the name on the water-bottle was the name of an airline (can't remember the exact name but it's the same airline the Oceanic 6 were on when they came back to the island last week)

I understand what you're saying, but i still don't get how you can tell who was shooting at them from this scene? You mentioned above they explained who it was that was shooting? was just wondering who they were?

Are you saying the people from this episode ( the new crash survivors ) were the ones shooting the Oceanic 6?

PengYn
February 26th, 2009, 03:30 AM
I understand what you're saying, but i still don't get how you can tell who was shooting at them from this scene? You mentioned above they explained who it was that was shooting? was just wondering who they were?

Are you saying the people from this episode ( the new crash survivors ) were the ones shooting the Oceanic 6?

They were shooting at team island though, not the Oceanic 6. You can never be a hundred % certain because it's Lost, but you can kind of determine that at some point in the future that camp will be abandoned for some reason. And when Team!Island flash to the future and come by the abandoned camp they find two canoes on the beach. There were 2 canoes on the beach in this weeks episode and we learned that the pilot (Frank) has taken the third one. So everything does seem to point to the new survivors shooting at Sawyer and co... after all one of them did just uncover a shotgun.

Overall it was a very necessary episode, and it's been a long time coming. I found parts of it a little too slow for my taste, but it's an important episode and Locke's an important character so I'm letting it slide. By far the most interesting scene was between Locke and Ben. And just when you thought you might have Ben figured out - bam!

Skydiver
February 26th, 2009, 05:28 AM
it seems obvious that widmore is zipping through time, manipulating one and all...the unanswered question is why?

why does he care? what is he trying to gain?

something tells me he's trying to control the island. is he trying to control it for 'good' or so that he can zip through time and perhaps go back and change it, likely for his own gain

I have a funny feeling that the show is gonna end with something like the losties having to destroy the time device on the island - or destroy the island itself - and they'll find themselves lost somewhere in time, permanently. do the old 'sacrifice themselves to save the future' thing

PengYn
February 26th, 2009, 11:27 AM
Funny tidbit from Jimmy Kimmel and relating to this weeks episode HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTHCWfP4q_8) :)

dsigal
February 26th, 2009, 12:56 PM
I gotta agree with Alan Wake, that this episode went a long way from "explaining" who was shooting at the left behinders in the canoe.

Certainly a valid theory that it was the 316ers, but it's no more a valid theory after this episode than it was before this episode. (we've known about the water bottle for awhile now)

It still could have been anyone, especially since we still have no motivation for why the 316ers would be willing to shoot at them. Also, they def were not being shot at with a shotgun. It was some sort of pistol or rifle.

knowles2
February 26th, 2009, 02:54 PM
Funny tidbit from Jimmy Kimmel and relating to this weeks episode HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTHCWfP4q_8) :)

Nice video.

Love the episode, thought it was a bit slow in some area, but it seem to have connected a lot of the other pieces togeather.

Ben and Widmore both seem to be preparing for a war of some kind. Except Ben believe only violence will win it for them, Widmore despite his use of force believe in a peaceful solution. Ben got rid of him and then proceeded with his own plan for saving the island, that involve saving the island but keeping lock out of power and himself firmly in it.
The above still leave out the question of who is the enemy through. Dharma would be a good choice and the fact they still dropping supplies may suggest they still got people on the island.

I think that it was the 316s firing at the boat, it just seem to make sense in the story. They thought it was the people who been harassing them and decided like the losties to fight them off.

Plus Robert would never order his people to attack them knowing that Lock was jumping through time that was not make much sense.

Was the 316s on the second island which cannot be seen from the first.
And what is Frank up to, I certainly do not think he the kind of person to go running off, leaving the passengers behind or do I believe he was taking up flying planes because he enjoy it, he their for his own reasons and probably been place on the island by Widmore and knows a lot more than he let on in the past.

Descent
February 26th, 2009, 03:47 PM
Even though we've already known about most of this stuff for quite sometime, I thought this was a great episode. I totally called Ben killing Locke after talking him down. Saw that coming from a mile away...what a jerk.... :P

Alan Wake
February 26th, 2009, 05:25 PM
I believe Ben killed Locke because he was of no longer any use to him when he told him who he needed to talk to. I'm betting he's gonna get an unexpected awakening when he wakes up and locke is sitting over him. No doubt he'll make up some lie though.

When Mr. Widmore talked about a war coming... and locke needed to be on the island, I think this is the war with the island natives and the darma. I think he knows somehow that locke would be sent back to the 70's, before the purge happens.

I'm still not sure what side widmore is on though. He wants locke to be on the good side.... but what side is that? What side does he want to win? I'm guessing it's the side of the "others" since he worked with them for so long.

All this show we have been lead to believe that the others were the "bad" people of the island, and the darma was the good side.

The more this show goes, it seems like that role is finally being changed.

In the end, I think widmore will be shown to have been the good guy, and ben the evil.

the fifth man
February 26th, 2009, 07:13 PM
You just never know with Ben. His actions are so mysterious and surprising at times. I don't think we'll know if he is really good or evil for some time to come.

mr_kennedy
February 26th, 2009, 07:21 PM
awesome episode

ben killing locke really suprised me, although i dont see why it should being the lying manipulative person he is

and no oceanic 6 in this episode was dissapointing but with the title of the episode i really didnt expect them to be in this one

i also like it how time moves slower on the island then the rest of the world, i hope they explain this

Descent
February 26th, 2009, 07:32 PM
In the end, I think widmore will be shown to have been the good guy, and ben the evil.

I personally think both of them are bad guys who believe they are doing good (especially Ben). But... they both have their own (evil :P ) agendas. It seems like Ben wants the Island and Jacob to forgive him/take him back and Widmore wants to (apparently) control time using the Island. Evil I say! :P

majorsal
February 26th, 2009, 07:56 PM
Even though we've already known about most of this stuff for quite sometime, I thought this was a great episode. I totally called Ben killing Locke after talking him down. Saw that coming from a mile away...what a jerk.... :P

see, i didn't see that coming.

ben just seemed sincerely upset at what locke was trying to do. and then, when he was strangling him, he wouldn't look at his face. and notice when he was ready to leave the room, he finally made himself look up at locke. i 'think' he said he was really going to miss him.

but what i really want to know is what triggered this. or, why mentioning daniel's mom's name brought out this sudden desire to carry out locke's plan.

i think i'm stuck on ben really going there to talk to locke and being sincerely upset that he was going to hang himself. but mentioning that woman's name set ben off on another decision.

but i still think ben's crap for doing that to locke! :(

the fifth man
February 26th, 2009, 08:01 PM
see, i didn't see that coming.

ben just seemed sincerely upset at what locke was trying to do. and then, when he was strangling him, he wouldn't look at his face. and notice when he was ready to leave the room, he finally made himself look up at locke. i 'think' he said he was really going to miss him.

but what i really want to know is what triggered this. or, why mentioning daniel's mom's name brought out this sudden desire to carry out locke's plan.

i think i'm stuck on ben really going there to talk to locke and being sincerely upset that he was going to hang himself. but mentioning that woman's name set ben off on another decision.

but i still think ben's crap for doing that to locke! :(

Yes, Ben did say he was going to miss Locke.

I am sure, eventually, we will learn what suddenly set him off at the mention of Faraday's mom. Hopefully, not too long from now.

Alan Wake
February 26th, 2009, 09:51 PM
So do you guys think that when ben left the island, and was transported to the same spot locke was, those guys that were trying to take ben were working for widmore? I just thought they were terrorists... but now since we have seen them take locke to a care center, I don't think they ever were going to harm ben.... just take him to widmore.

Amalthea
February 26th, 2009, 09:55 PM
I didn't believe Ben's sincerity, but I didn't think he was going to kill Locke. The whole time Ben was in there, I kept hearing Christian Shephard's words about how trusting Ben has never gotten him anywhere good, but to extrapolate it to murder wasn't there in my head.

I am not convinced, however, that the 316ers are the ones in the boats who shot at our Island Losties. Since Lipidis and mystery woman stole a boat and took it somewhere, it's possible that it was that boat that the Island Losties found and used. Meanwhile, the original owners of the boats came back and met the 316ers (not sure what they did to them, although I could see some kind of scuffle breaking out as per Walt's dream) and went in search of Frank and mystery woman, but found the Island Losties instead and started shooting.

jenks
February 26th, 2009, 10:24 PM
Lost is too good.

Shan Bruce Lee
February 27th, 2009, 01:47 AM
So do you guys think that when ben left the island, and was transported to the same spot locke was, those guys that were trying to take ben were working for widmore? I just thought they were terrorists... but now since we have seen them take locke to a care center, I don't think they ever were going to harm ben.... just take him to widmore.

No idea. I don't remember there being any cameras there when Ben left the island. Maybe Widmore somehow found out about Ben being transported there and started watching the spot.

Shan Bruce Lee
February 27th, 2009, 01:51 AM
I didn't believe Ben's sincerity, but I didn't think he was going to kill Locke. The whole time Ben was in there, I kept hearing Christian Shephard's words about how trusting Ben has never gotten him anywhere good, but to extrapolate it to murder wasn't there in my head.

I am not convinced, however, that the 316ers are the ones in the boats who shot at our Island Losties. Since Lipidis and mystery woman stole a boat and took it somewhere, it's possible that it was that boat that the Island Losties found and used. Meanwhile, the original owners of the boats came back and met the 316ers (not sure what they did to them, although I could see some kind of scuffle breaking out as per Walt's dream) and went in search of Frank and mystery woman, but found the Island Losties instead and started shooting.

They got the boats from the Others' equipment on the second island.

Wyrminarrd
February 27th, 2009, 02:03 AM
Another great episode.

I think Ben didnīt care one bit about Locke killing himself other then that he needed the information about how to get back to the island. Once he had that info Locke wasnīt needed ans since killing him on the island doesnīt seem to be an option Ben decided to act there and then.

Iīll admit that I didnīt expect the other peoples on the plane to end up on the island. Iīm also surprised if Frank (and Sun?) didnīt get caught up in the flash, seems strange that some are effected and others not. Of course it could have been the co-pilot and the Fed escorting Sayid.

As for who is the good guy in the Ben/Whitmore conflict Iīm going to say that neither is the good guy, this is a straight up power struggle between two borderline psychos.

Skydiver
February 27th, 2009, 05:37 AM
both ben and widmore are supremely self-motivated. and they'll use/abuse anyone to get their goals.

knowles2
February 27th, 2009, 06:01 AM
The one thing I just thought is that why Ben and Widmore was probably at each other throats for a long, Richard Alpert does not seem the type of guy to let them two rip each other to pieces.

dsigal
February 27th, 2009, 06:01 AM
I think another big question is did the Locke and the 316ers flash back in time to the 70's with Jack, Kate, Hurley and presumably Sayid?

I've found a lot of people assumed they did, but I thought it was implied that they didn't when Ceasar explained that he saw Hurley and others disappear from the plane. If they all flashed, then why would some disappear and the rest not?

Craziness!

dsigal
February 27th, 2009, 06:05 AM
Oh also, weighing in on who is the good guy, I was starting to lean towards Widmore being, if not the good guy, then on the right side, but the one thing that I can't justify is why the island wouldn't let Michael die until he was in a position where he could stop Widmore's freighter from ultimately reaching the island. That makes me think the island is not a fan of Widmore...but who knows.

SoulReaver
February 27th, 2009, 08:39 AM
As for who is the good guy in the Ben/Whitmore conflict Iīm going to say that neither is the good guy, this is a straight up power struggle between two borderline psychos.my take on this too (ftm)


btw could Ben have known that killing John would send him back to the island ? (and leave him stranded)
it's doubtful but Ben does seems to know a lot of things..

and Widmore somehow being on the good side was immediately excluded given the kind of people he hired

ThreeFriesShortOfaHappyMeal
February 27th, 2009, 06:18 PM
the one thing that I can't justify is why the island wouldn't let Michael die until he was in a position where he could stop Widmore's freighter from ultimately reaching the island. That makes me think the island is not a fan of Widmore...but who knows.

Good point. For the first time a lighter side of Widmore has been shown and im not quite sure what to think.

When Jack is talking to Ben on the plane and points out that Locke killed himself, I knew immediately Ben was lying when he said he didnt know. I thought he simply knew he did, but just before the big moment it became quite obvious to me Locke was about to be killed :( But at the same time :jack_new_anime07:

Im surprised no has mentioned that Locke came back to life when he landed on the island. I had been guessing this for a year now and to finally see it gives us some pretty good evidence that Christian Shepherd is alive and well!

These last three episodes have been great. .:jack_new_anime07::jack_new_anime07::jack_new_anime07:

knowsfords
February 27th, 2009, 11:01 PM
Ben tricked Locke into being the one to move the island so he could go pull his revenge on Widmore.

Ben killed Locke once he had the information to return to the island because Locke would have returned the leader of the others when he came back to the island.

Ben didn't expect John to return to life when they brought him back to the island.

Cree
February 28th, 2009, 03:53 AM
Good point. For the first time a lighter side of Widmore has been shown and im not quite sure what to think.

When Jack is talking to Ben on the plane and points out that Locke killed himself, I knew immediately Ben was lying when he said he didnt know. I thought he simply knew he did, but just before the big moment it became quite obvious to me Locke was about to be killed :( But at the same time :jack_new_anime07:

Im surprised no has mentioned that Locke came back to life when he landed on the island. I had been guessing this for a year now and to finally see it gives us some pretty good evidence that Christian Shepherd is alive and well!

These last three episodes have been great. .:jack_new_anime07::jack_new_anime07::jack_new_anime07:


I dont think so as when locke was about to turn the whelle he asked if christian could help him up and christian said he couldnt, i think he is incorporial!

HAL2100
February 28th, 2009, 05:26 PM
That's seriously not an issue. For one thing, we don't know how long he'd had the cast on at that point. They'd already done a lot of traveling before that. And secondly, in a life or death situation like that it's not too far-fetched to think he could do it.

It doesn't make any difference how long the cast was on or if it was life or death. If the cast didn't make his foot too big to fit in the floorboard, it would have immobilized his ankle from bending. He would not have been able to operate the gas peddle. Feel free to call an Orthopedists' office if you don't believe me.

HAL2100
February 28th, 2009, 05:34 PM
I have a funny feeling that the show is gonna end with something like the losties having to destroy the time device on the island - or destroy the island itself - and they'll find themselves lost somewhere in time, permanently. do the old 'sacrifice themselves to save the future' thing

Somehow I agree that something like that is going to happen and we all find out that the show title refers not to the story, but the final outcome.

HAL2100
February 28th, 2009, 05:51 PM
Been busy at work...

Given that Richard seems to be a constant, I'm thinking that Ben and Widmore are at each other's throats for whatever the reason. Obviously somehow the island slows down a person from aging once they reach a certain age.

Given that Sayid pulled up in a Dharma van, I'm thinking that the plane was sent back in time to sometime prior to Ben killing everyone. How Said ended up working for Dharma, I have no idea unless The Others took over the Dharma vehicles as well.

I'm personally getting a bit tired of the whole thing of spending 40 minutes on flushing out the backstory and 5 minutes on moving the story forward. It reminds me of Les Mis. I'm also fed up with everone constantly pushing things off with the "I don't have time to explain it" crap. I think that it would have been better if the producers had kept a running title card indicating the real-world calendar date that we were seeing as its my impression that most of the events happen within a short period of time.

knowles2
February 28th, 2009, 06:41 PM
Been busy at work...

Given that Richard seems to be a constant, I'm thinking that Ben and Widmore are at each other's throats for whatever the reason. Obviously somehow the island slows down a person from aging once they reach a certain age.

Given that Sayid pulled up in a Dharma van, I'm thinking that the plane was sent back in time to sometime prior to Ben killing everyone. How Said ended up working for Dharma, I have no idea unless The Others took over the Dharma vehicles as well.

I'm personally getting a bit tired of the whole thing of spending 40 minutes on flushing out the backstory and 5 minutes on moving the story forward. It reminds me of Les Mis. I'm also fed up with everone constantly pushing things off with the "I don't have time to explain it" crap. I think that it would have been better if the producers had kept a running title card indicating the real-world calendar date that we were seeing as its my impression that most of the events happen within a short period of time.
Problem if we knew the date that everything was happening then figuring out the overal picture of where we are heading would be much easier. No world calendar date means we got no order in which we are being told stuff making it harder and more fun for the audience. Lost have never been for people who do not like to exercise their brain.

Shan Bruce Lee
March 1st, 2009, 02:53 AM
It doesn't make any difference how long the cast was on or if it was life or death. If the cast didn't make his foot too big to fit in the floorboard, it would have immobilized his ankle from bending. He would not have been able to operate the gas peddle. Feel free to call an Orthopedists' office if you don't believe me.

You push the pedal down, there's nothing to it. You don't have to bend your ankle. If you don't believe me try it.

HAL2100
March 1st, 2009, 06:49 AM
You push the pedal down, there's nothing to it. You don't have to bend your ankle. If you don't believe me try it.

Call an orthopedists office and ask them.

PengYn
March 1st, 2009, 07:20 AM
It's a television show. You're posting on a forum where the headlining show is about a big stone circle with a puddle in the middle that takes you to other planets. Does it really matter what someone's foot can or cannot do?

dsigal
March 1st, 2009, 07:59 AM
Given that Sayid pulled up in a Dharma van, I'm thinking that the plane was sent back in time to sometime prior to Ben killing everyone. How Said ended up working for Dharma, I have no idea unless The Others took over the Dharma vehicles as well.

First, it was Jin, not Sayid that came out of the Dharma van. We don't know for sure where Sayid is. Also, I'm fairly confident that the plane was not sent back in time at all. We know that Hurley and the others disappeared off the plane before it crashed. So if they all flashed back in time, why would some disappear off the plane and others not. Further, why would that Dharma station be abandoned if the it was during the time that Dharma was still active on the island. It just doesn't add up. I'm fairly certain that the plane is on the island in real time.

Alan Wake
March 1st, 2009, 08:23 PM
You push the pedal down, there's nothing to it. You don't have to bend your ankle. If you don't believe me try it.

I agree, it doesn't matter if you have a cast on or not.. pushing a pedal down does not require you to bend your foot in any way... you just push down.

Legal Mouse
March 2nd, 2009, 10:05 AM
I'm fairly certain that the plane is on the island in real time.

I agree Locke and the rest of the plane crashed (whatever) in real time, this also puts Ben in real time. Where Sayid ends up I guess we will find out this week.

As for Locke driving, I can put a piece of wood on my gas pedal to warm my car up, you could push down on the pedal in a cast.

Wyrminarrd
March 3rd, 2009, 06:51 AM
About Locke driving, is it possible that he simply held his right leg up and used his left to hit the accelerator? He wasnīt exactly driving very well....

Dusk
March 12th, 2009, 12:40 AM
So was not getting to see Helen alive because of the script or because Katey Sagal didn't want to reprise her role?

knowsfords
March 15th, 2009, 11:49 PM
So was not getting to see Helen alive because of the script or because Katey Sagal didn't want to reprise her role?

She may have been unable to.

ThreeFriesShortOfaHappyMeal
March 18th, 2009, 07:58 PM
I think story, he probably wouldnt have cared about the island anymore if he had her back.

myhelix
March 19th, 2010, 01:28 PM
Bets episode of Season 5, Locke is/was/is ;) my favourite. Ben is so untrustworthy.

Darkland
February 2nd, 2011, 05:17 AM
I have to admit I was stunned by Ben killing John. What was his motive? That's one thing I failed to understand by the killing.
It was interesting though this episode to show how John was desperate trying to get everyone back to the island.