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GateWorld
January 10th, 2009, 09:10 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/4131.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">BATTLESTAR GALACTICA SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE OATH</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 413</FONT>
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Lt. Gaeta and Vice President Zarek move against Adama over his collaboration with the Cylons, launching an all-out coup and taking control of the fleet.

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Skydiver
January 30th, 2009, 07:00 PM
[email protected] cliffie

Finger13
January 30th, 2009, 07:00 PM
Great episode. Lots of people are dead, big plot developments. I loved it when Starbuck owned those Marines when they were assaulting Lee. I also like Adama's reaction to the bridge being seized, and the continuity that the show maintained (the Chief from Pegasus who took over after Tyrol resigned, the guy from Pegasus who doesn't like Helo, etc.

It was nice to see Lee in action again. Was also crazy hearing all of the automatic gunfire going through the hallways. Was cool seeing Tyrol helping out the Colonials after sounding like he was siding with the Cylons. Seeing Adama and Tigh kick ass was epic haha, they got those Marines good. And Adama killed his own crew eh? Isn't that the first time that he's killed someone other than a Cylon?

Roslin's speech to the fleet was really good, well until it was cut short. I was hoping that the episode would be wrapped up more at the end instead of a cliffhanger, but oh well it's kind of nice to have a cliffhanger again after a sort of slow start to this season.

But yeah all in all I'm really looking forward to next week's episode, this is a great storyline. And I liked Baltar a lot in this episode. They did a good job adding even more depth to him since New Caprica. I also loved Adama and Roslin making out hahahaha, that was quite random in front of everyone. At least they don't hide it anymore.

But dammit what a cliffhanger, I hate these. It seems extremely unlikely that no one will be harmed. Felix is a little crap disturber ruining everything.

I really hope next episode sees him with a bullet in the brains.

Next weeks episode looks really good. I doubt the people firing were shooting Adama though, probably someone else that they had lined up. My guess would be that one of the final five are executed, which could open up more understanding of their purpose.

I really like Adama's line to Felix haha, "Shove it up your ass".

It's so strange that the Cylon Basestar has become a refuge though. I bet that in the next episode the Viper attacking the Raptor will be intercepted by Raiders and owned.

unruhbrady
January 30th, 2009, 07:01 PM
OMG. Phenomenal. Just Fracking Phenomenal.

FN-P90
January 30th, 2009, 07:02 PM
That was amazing. That was so intense at the end!

Smashing Young Man
January 30th, 2009, 07:04 PM
Great stuff. I've sorely missed the action packed, adrenalin pumping aspect of Battlestar Galactica.

Phenix
January 30th, 2009, 07:05 PM
I am def a fan of this episode. Helo was absolutely retarded though... Get her ready for day care....

The previews for the next show were idiotic. I'd prefer that they do not give out any major info but noooooo...

SG1Commander
January 30th, 2009, 07:06 PM
I wonder if what was said in the preview next weeks episode was true. about Colonel Tigh being killed; it better not be true.

FN-P90
January 30th, 2009, 07:07 PM
I cant wait to see how this is gona end. This is gona sound weird but when you have a To be Continued they should never show screen shots of the next ep IMO makes it more......Itense.

Bruman
January 30th, 2009, 07:07 PM
Battlestar does it's magic again. Last week's slow episode was SO worth it as a setup for this.

Reminds me of when I studied political science and studied different kinds of coups d'etat. There was always a major distinction between whether the senior staff was in on the coup (generally more successful - a la Season 1) or whether it was junior officers organizing things (who have trouble maintaining loyalty of the military - like now). Great stuff. Of course RDM and DE were both government majors, so they probably read the same stuff.

rarocks24
January 30th, 2009, 07:07 PM
Gaeta blocking the transmission of the President of the Twelve Colonies is only a sign of totalitarianism in response to totalitarianism. I find it interesting that a relatively bloodless dictatorship is overturned by a murderous coup out for revenge rather than justice and the interests of the human race.

Adama made the mistake of not issuing a genuine pardon to all cylons when he had the chance.

Finger13
January 30th, 2009, 07:08 PM
I wonder if what was said in the preview next weeks episode was true. about Colonel Tigh being killed; it better not be true.

When did they say that? I completely missed it.

All I heard was that they had been found guilty of treason and would be executed.

It wouldn't surprise me though, Tigh getting executed. It can't be Adama.

Killing one or more of the final five would open the doorway to see them reintroduced somehow, or to shed light on them.

And yeah hahahaha that day care line was hilarious. Automatic gunfire erupts in the halls "better get her ready for day care"

ToasterOnFire
January 30th, 2009, 07:09 PM
I know it's a great ep of BSG when I spend most of the ep like this: O_O

No way both Tigh and Adama died at the end of that.

I laughed when Tigh realized why Roslin was in Adama's quarters, HA!

DigiFluid
January 30th, 2009, 07:09 PM
I wonder if what was said in the preview next weeks episode was true. about Colonel Tigh being killed; it better not be true.
God I know. Everyone could've fit on that damn Raptor.

SG1Commander
January 30th, 2009, 07:10 PM
When did they say that? I completely missed it.

All I heard was that they had been found guilty of treason and would be executed.

It wouldn't surprise me though, Tigh getting executed. It can't be Adama.

Killing one or more of the final five would open the doorway to see them reintroduced somehow, or to shed light on them.

And yeah hahahaha that day care line was hilarious. Automatic gunfire erupts in the halls "better get her ready for day care"

Unless I'm mistaken, they said that right before they said that tried and found guilty of treason.

I also loved some other parts of the episode. Like when Starbuck and Lee kissed, Adama and Roslin kissed. I couldn't get enough of when Adama & Tigh were going through the ship, and standing their ground in the airlock.

Skydiver
January 30th, 2009, 07:10 PM
the success of a coup also rides on how much the crew trusts the 'new' boss....if tigh had a mutiny - before the whole cylon thing that is - he'd have stood a chance.
but gatea? he doesn't have the leaderrship potential

and did you see how zarek expected gaeta to be his fall guy? he was ticked that gaeta hasnt' killed adama for him. he wants to lead but wants everyone else to do the dirty work

spineless dude

i can see, with adama's reluctance to kill, the ring leaders being killed, the others dumped off on a life supporting planet and abandoned

but, you know, they only have 7 more eps to go to wrap it up

Adrius
January 30th, 2009, 07:10 PM
Very intense episode... very good, thrilling, edge of my seat...

And yet, if the next episode goes down how I think it might, that's the end for me. I will stop watching. So close to the end too.

Arative
January 30th, 2009, 07:10 PM
I'm glad that they didn't resolve everything in one episode but frak waiting another week!!!!

I was half hoping that Adama would have shot that 2nd marine in the back of the head. The way he sounded in CiC was that he would grant no quarter to those traitors. I agree with Starbuck, they are the enemy and they should just shoot first, ask questions later.

But damn Racetrack for being a traitor!! She was one of my favorite secondary characters. The only way I see this ending is for all the traitors to be airlocked, with the exception of Gaeta, whom I hope Adama shoots in the head.

somedude
January 30th, 2009, 07:13 PM
Is Laird really dead? Looked like maybe he was just knocked out cold.

SG1Commander
January 30th, 2009, 07:14 PM
I'm glad that they didn't resolve everything in one episode but frak waiting another week!!!!

I was half hoping that Adama would have shot that 2nd marine in the back of the head. The way he sounded in CiC was that he would grant no quarter to those traitors. I agree with Starbuck, they are the enemy and they should just shoot first, ask questions later.

But damn Racetrack for being a traitor!! She was one of my favorite secondary characters. The only way I see this ending is for all the traitors to be airlocked, with the exception of Gaeta, whom I hope Adama shoots in the head.

And we can't forget Seelix. She distracted Sam while the traitors came up behind him.

Corona
January 30th, 2009, 07:16 PM
Oh Ellen? Where are you?

She can't come back to no Tigh, right?

That weaselly ass Gaeta! (Good acting btw) I would so like to do a Starbuck into his head. Frakkin traitor!

AARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!! A two parter!

CKO
January 30th, 2009, 07:17 PM
TO BE CONTINUED my ass.... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr and whines..

damn very evil... i need more.

action packed... yes... very nice... erm.

this little shippy heart is squeeing.. L/K kiss very nice... hmm wonder if RDM will finally listen to us and have them be a couple. and the A/R being all coupley around each other... *sigh*

*blinks* re: preview for next week... HOLY FRAK!

baltar has slowly seemed to have redeemed himself, greata... take the little frakker to the airlock and space his sorry ass, along w/ the VP

kingzing
January 30th, 2009, 07:18 PM
OMG!!! That was one of my favorite episodes. Anyone think Roslin and Baltar, will get along now? This was very intense. I was on my seat for the whole hour, which is rare for me. Cant wait for next week, it will feel like a month. The anticipation might just drive me crazy.

GateHawk
January 30th, 2009, 07:19 PM
As of today I hope Gaius explodes that self-righteous prick Geada's lies.

Evil little S.O.B., I hope Starbuck make a canoe outta his and Racetrack's heads. Sorry gang, but watching characters whom I know are aware of how few people are left pull a Jamestown is depressing.

I have no idea what's next but I hope there is something positive to end the series on. A message of mass suicide will not get me to rewatch the series..

Smashing Young Man
January 30th, 2009, 07:19 PM
One thing I was thinking about is how there wasn't much gray area in this episode; at the very least, the writers did everything they could to kill any sympathy we might have had for the rebellion. All the rebels acted like complete asshats through the whole thing.

DigiFluid
January 30th, 2009, 07:24 PM
One thing I was thinking about is how there wasn't much gray area in this episode; at the very least, the writers did everything they could to kill any sympathy we might have had for the rebellion. All the rebels acted like complete asshats through the whole thing.

A matter of opinion, I suppose.

I think their justification is absolutely correct. The Roslin/Adama leadership has been nothing shy of dictatorial, and completely shameless about it. As much as I love the Eddie Olmos' and Mary McDonnell's performances (they really does a wonderful job), their characters have grown beyond despicable. They deserve what they get, at this point.


It's a shame their comeuppance seems to have come from a malcontent like Gaeta. Zarek I can at least somewhat understand, and it seems almost like he's in over his head; but Gaeta's earned a bullet between the eyes with the actions of this revolt. I hope it's either Starbuck or Baltar that gives it to him.

Finger13
January 30th, 2009, 07:25 PM
One thing I was thinking about is how there wasn't much gray area in this episode; at the very least, the writers did everything they could to kill any sympathy we might have had for the rebellion. All the rebels acted like complete asshats through the whole thing.
Yes and no. You have to look at it from both ways. As a viewer I obviously lean heavily in favour of the normal Administration and not Gaeta. Zarek had potential, but that is now gone and will never be redeemed. And yeah, the episode is obviously portraying the rebels as tools.

But you could take the other side too. I mean I don't see what fleeing to the Base Star will accomplish, wouldn't that only reaffirm the tensions and suspicion?

somedude
January 30th, 2009, 07:25 PM
And during the commercial breaks, what happened to Nick Chinlund? He's doing movies on SciFi now? Wyvern doesn't look too good. :)

the fifth man
January 30th, 2009, 07:26 PM
Amazing episode tonight. It really was. And what an ending. Waiting until next week is going to be such torture to see how this is all resolved. I'll tell you this, Tigh had better not be dead though. I would be so upset.

Phenix
January 30th, 2009, 07:28 PM
One thing I was thinking about is how there wasn't much gray area in this episode; at the very least, the writers did everything they could to kill any sympathy we might have had for the rebellion. All the rebels acted like complete asshats through the whole thing.

What did you expect? They are rebelling against the two major characters of the series. It does not help that the head rebel was a collaborator with the Cylons....

Alan Wake
January 30th, 2009, 07:28 PM
I'll tell you all this... I'm am not a fan of this show by any means, but this was a GREAT episode.

The awesomeness was... just awesome!


And during the commercial breaks, what happened to Nick Chinlund? He's doing movies on SciFi now? Wyvern doesn't look too good. :)

I believe i saw a Mr.Hammond in the that trailer.

rarocks24
January 30th, 2009, 07:28 PM
Amazing episode tonight. It really was. And what an ending. Waiting until next week is going to be such torture to see how this is all resolved. I'll tell you this, Tigh had better not be dead though. I would be so upset.

Maybe Tigh's death is what prompts Ellen to return. :shrug:

Phenix
January 30th, 2009, 07:30 PM
Amazing episode tonight. It really was. And what an ending. Waiting until next week is going to be such torture to see how this is all resolved. I'll tell you this, Tigh had better not be dead though. I would be so upset.

If the spoiler is true then I'll be more pissed off that they put it in the previews....

Arative
January 30th, 2009, 07:32 PM
Maybe Tigh's death is what prompts Ellen to return. :shrug:

He could resurrect but I hope he doesn't die. Tigh is my absolute favorite character.

Smashing Young Man
January 30th, 2009, 07:33 PM
Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about a lack of gray area (at least, a lack of gray area from my perspective). I sometimes feel writers of movies and television shows try too hard to make things gray and morally relative these days.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 30th, 2009, 07:33 PM
How can you have a cliff-hanger that implies Adama and Tigh are killed and then cut straight to the preview for next week showing that Adama didn't die? And if Tight dies as the preview spoiled, it has to be from the explosion or it would lose it's impact. But at least SGA isn't the only show SciFi spoils in previews...

I'm still with Zarek and the Rebels. Nothing any of the main characters did in this ep showed me that they deserve to live (except Apollo) I mean, where did Roslin go as soon as she left Galactica? From next week's preview it looks like the Basestar.

Apollo finally started to come to his senses toward the end of the ep when he went off on Tigh. I'm hoping he'll finally shed the Lee Adama aspect of his character and fully become Apollo but based on some other scenes (Starbuck - more in a second) I'm pretty sure they're gonna either use his father's death or the will to save his father before he's killed to reset the character.

Bruman
January 30th, 2009, 07:38 PM
I think what we see here is how leadership is important, as well as discipline. Kara and Lee (well, Kara at least) know when they have to shoot people; Adama and Tigh too. I didn't like the idea of humans killing humans, but I always react well to talk about honor and such.

I think Baltar may have some way to expose Gaeta and therefore undermine his leadership. Maybe he has some piece of evidence that conclusively fingers Gaeta... maybe even related to Connor's son.

Maybe this ends with a small number of humans (hopefully enough males) running off with the cylon girls and founding a new planet, while the fleet shoots itself apart just before Cavil comes by to finish them off. Cavil then gives up, thinking that all humans are gone, while the humans and cylons go off to start the cycle (and sequels) again.

prattmic
January 30th, 2009, 07:39 PM
I believe i saw a Mr.Hammond in the that trailer.

Yes, Wyvern will be Don. S. Davis's final appearance in a new show/movie
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0204493/

Shan Bruce Lee
January 30th, 2009, 07:39 PM
A matter of opinion, I suppose.

I think their justification is absolutely correct. The Roslin/Adama leadership has been nothing shy of dictatorial, and completely shameless about it. As much as I love the Eddie Olmos' and Mary McDonnell's performances (they really does a wonderful job), their characters have grown beyond despicable. They deserve what they get, at this point.

I think I agree with both points. They're great actors (especially Olmos) but the characters aren't exactly "good guys"

Bruman
January 30th, 2009, 07:40 PM
Oh, and Tigh is probably my favorite character too. He reminds me of my dad, a bit. Well... I guess my dad had a little more of Adama's temperament, but Tigh's great turns of phrase.

tech100
January 30th, 2009, 07:41 PM
good episode.

I think geeta will find out that he is in over his head. If this mutiny actually works geeta will have a hard time keeping control and could have a mutiny of his own.

I think Lee doesn't like Tigh too much and the way it sounds he thinks that making peace with the Cylons is not right.

The look of Tigh when Adama and Roslin kissed in his quarters.

They should of had some the rebels douting what they were doing. They were overthrowing the current leadership by blood (lots of it). Some of the rebels were in it for revenge on there enemies.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 30th, 2009, 07:41 PM
My biggest complaint about this episode was that Starbuck survived the first 15 minutes. The sloppy writing of the scene where she saves Apollo took me out of the element for the first half of the show.

There is absolutely no explanation why none of the rebels even bothered to at the very least pull their guns on her after she shot the first guy, much less after she shot the second.

And on top of that she gives her little tuff girl line and just runs away and they all just stand there. For a revolt as surprisingly effective as Geata's was, there's really no excuse for the poor writing in that scene.

Alan Wake
January 30th, 2009, 07:42 PM
Yes, Wyvern will be Don. S. Davis's final appearance in a new show/movie
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0204493/

Shame it has to be a cruddy Scifi movie.

Finger13
January 30th, 2009, 07:43 PM
How can you have a cliff-hanger that implies Adama and Tigh are killed and then cut straight to the preview for next week showing that Adama didn't die? And if Tight dies as the preview spoiled, it has to be from the explosion or it would lose it's impact. But at least SGA isn't the only show SciFi spoils in previews...
That looked like a flash bang or stun grenade to me. It's far more logical than them surviving a fragmentation or concussion grenade, since Adama looks unscathed in the next episode.

It'd make more sense if Tigh was the one killed by the firing squad, since we see them shoot. It's probably just deceptive editing to make it look like Adama bites the bullet(s).


I'm still with Zarek and the Rebels. Nothing any of the main characters did in this ep showed me that they deserve to live (except Apollo) I mean, where did Roslin go as soon as she left Galactica? From next week's preview it looks like the Basestar.
Yeah, I don't see how that could help things. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a shoot out between the Galactica and the Base Star. Both of their hulls look like hell haha. But with that Viper engaging the Raptor headed for the Base Star, it's pretty obvious that the Cylons will be getting involved.


Apollo finally started to come to his senses toward the end of the ep when he went off on Tigh. I'm hoping he'll finally shed the Lee Adama aspect of his character and fully become Apollo but based on some other scenes (Starbuck - more in a second) I'm pretty sure they're gonna either use his father's death or the will to save his father before he's killed to reset the character.
Not sure that I follow, why does he need to be reset? Lee is a constantly evolving character. He has never really followed one format, he constantly changes and adapts.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 30th, 2009, 07:46 PM
They should of had some the rebels douting what they were doing. They were overthrowing the current leadership by blood (lots of it). Some of the rebels were in it for revenge on there enemies.

I think that's why they're all in it.

Starsaber
January 30th, 2009, 07:47 PM
The only way I see this ending is for all the traitors to be airlocked, with the exception of Gaeta, whom I hope Adama shoots in the head.

Too quick. I hope Starbuck cuts his other leg off with a rusty knife then Adama beats him to death with it.

Honestly, I think this cliffhanger is the best they've ever done (even better than finding Earth at the end of 4.0)

Arative
January 30th, 2009, 07:49 PM
A matter of opinion, I suppose.

I think their justification is absolutely correct. The Roslin/Adama leadership has been nothing shy of dictatorial, and completely shameless about it. As much as I love the Eddie Olmos' and Mary McDonnell's performances (they really does a wonderful job), their characters have grown beyond despicable. They deserve what they get, at this point.


It's a shame their comeuppance seems to have come from a malcontent like Gaeta. Zarek I can at least somewhat understand, and it seems almost like he's in over his head; but Gaeta's earned a bullet between the eyes with the actions of this revolt. I hope it's either Starbuck or Baltar that gives it to him.

I disagree with you on Roslin/Adama. They're doing what they need to do to make sure the human race survives. Every time we've seen, letting the people decide, its ended in disaster. New Caprica comes to mind. How different would things have turned out if Roslin had fixed the election and they never settled on New Caprica?

Democracy is fine when they were at peace but when they are constantly at war and there are 35,000 humans left, the leaders don't have time to coddle the civvies.

the fifth man
January 30th, 2009, 07:51 PM
Too quick. I hope Starbuck cuts his other leg off with a rusty knife then Adama beats him to death with it.

Honestly, I think this cliffhanger is the best they've ever done (even better than finding Earth at the end of 4.0)

If not better than them finding Earth, it was just about as good.

rarocks24
January 30th, 2009, 07:53 PM
I disagree with you on Roslin/Adama. They're doing what they need to do to make sure the human race survives. Every time we've seen, letting the people decide, its ended in disaster. New Caprica comes to mind. How different would things have turned out if Roslin had fixed the election and they never settled on New Caprica?

Democracy is fine when they were at peace but when they are constantly at war and there are 35,000 humans left, the leaders don't have time to coddle the civvies.

We lost a battlestar, and several thousand civvies.

Yeah, Civilian leadership worked out so well.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 30th, 2009, 07:54 PM
That looked like a flash bang or stun grenade to me. It's far more logical than them surviving a fragmentation or concussion grenade, since Adama looks unscathed in the next episode.

It'd make more sense if Tigh was the one killed by the firing squad, since we see them shoot. It's probably just deceptive editing to make it look like Adama bites the bullet(s).

In which case the spoiler ruins the impact of his death.


Not sure that I follow, why does he need to be reset? Lee is a constantly evolving character. He has never really followed one format, he constantly changes and adapts.

That evolution of his character has been toward the more noble good of the people. That was the whole point of Zarek putting the idea in his head that he may have to go against his father. It's kinda like a final step. If he goes back to being loyal to the rest of the "main characters" it's a reset.

Keep in mind that Zarek has been one of the main catalysts of that evolution of Apollo's character since the character was first introduced in the episode on the prison ship.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 30th, 2009, 07:58 PM
I disagree with you on Roslin/Adama. They're doing what they need to do to make sure the human race survives. Every time we've seen, letting the people decide, its ended in disaster. New Caprica comes to mind. How different would things have turned out if Roslin had fixed the election and they never settled on New Caprica?

Democracy is fine when they were at peace but when they are constantly at war and there are 35,000 humans left, the leaders don't have time to coddle the civvies.

Aaand the mistake made then was what, again? Thinking they were safe from the Cylons and they could go on their merry way?

That's almost exactly what Adama/Roslin are doing now.

EvenstarSRV
January 30th, 2009, 07:58 PM
But damn Racetrack for being a traitor!! She was one of my favorite secondary characters. The only way I see this ending is for all the traitors to be airlocked, with the exception of Gaeta, whom I hope Adama shoots in the head.

Heh, I had the same reaction about Racetrack. She was one of my favorite secondary characters, so I was shocked and sad to see her join the mutiny.

I'd been expecting this type of civil war to happen since the end of Revelations, when the one thing that had kept so many of these people going was lost to them. But the thing that keeps me from really sympathizing with the rebels is that it seems like they're seeking vengeance for perceived wrongs at the expense of stability, when at this point stability is what they need the most for survival.

It was interesting to see how much power Gaeta has always been able to wield by controlling the comms in the CIC. And I enjoyed seeing both Starbuck and Roslin really come back to life after the event on Earth. Didn't quite understand why Adama and Tigh had to stay in the hold after the Raptor had taken off, but their stand was cool to see.

I'm wondering if it's going to take a return of Cavil and the other cylons to end this civil war, because I think both sides are too entrenched to resolve it themselves.

Corona
January 30th, 2009, 08:00 PM
Starbuck rescues Lee but leaves at least 3 of the guards alive.

Starbuck and Lee find Adama and Tigh and she goes frakkin ballistic wanting to kill their prisoner saying they all need to die.

Just sayin.

sp1ff75
January 30th, 2009, 08:01 PM
What a great episode. I really hate Gaeta and Zarek now. I really hate Gaeta now. It's also nice to see Starbuck up and around and shooting people again. I thought it was great to see Adama and Tigh take up arms and for Adama to actually shoot one of his insubordinate marines. Great episode and what a cliffhanger to leave off on.

DigiFluid
January 30th, 2009, 08:02 PM
I disagree with you on Roslin/Adama. They're doing what they need to do to make sure the human race survives. Every time we've seen, letting the people decide, its ended in disaster. New Caprica comes to mind. How different would things have turned out if Roslin had fixed the election and they never settled on New Caprica?

Democracy is fine when they were at peace but when they are constantly at war and there are 35,000 humans left, the leaders don't have time to coddle the civvies.


We lost a battlestar, and several thousand civvies.

Yeah, Civilian leadership worked out so well.

If you're willing to abandon your principles--for any reason whatsoever--I don't think life is much worth living. That's the entire point of having principles in the first place. As this series has rightly made clear right from the get-go, life for it's own sake isn't worth living. People need a reason to go on; we need a reason to justify why we're worthy of survival at all.

If those principles get tossed out the window (airlock) whenever they become inconvenient, what's the point?

Arative
January 30th, 2009, 08:04 PM
Aaand the mistake made then was what, again? Thinking they were safe from the Cylons and they could go on their merry way?

That's almost exactly what Adama/Roslin are doing now.

Yes, that was their mistake on New Caprica. Giving up and thinking they were safe and could rebuild.

I don't think that is what Adama and Roslin are doing now. They are doing what is in the best interest of the surviving humans by upgrading the FTL drives so the ships can go further with the remaining fuel they have left. It gives the humans a better chance of survival. Zarek is using the natural distrust of cylons to ferment the rebellion in order to gain power but time and time again, Adama and Roslin have been shown to make the right decisions.

anotherquestion
January 30th, 2009, 08:05 PM
I don't know of any episode to date that has simultaneously provoked such polarized responses from one series of events that we all witnessed together.

From one end of the spectrum...




I'm still with Zarek and the Rebels. Nothing any of the main characters did in this ep showed me that they deserve to live (except Apollo) I mean, where did Roslin go as soon as she left Galactica? From next week's preview it looks like the Basestar.

Apollo finally started to come to his senses toward the end of the ep when he went off on Tigh. I'm hoping he'll finally shed the Lee Adama aspect of his character and fully become Apollo but based on some other scenes (Starbuck - more in a second) I'm pretty sure they're gonna either use his father's death or the will to save his father before he's killed to reset the character.

To the other....

I'm glad that they didn't resolve everything in one episode but frak waiting another week!!!!

I was half hoping that Adama would have shot that 2nd marine in the back of the head. The way he sounded in CiC was that he would grant no quarter to those traitors. I agree with Starbuck, they are the enemy and they should just shoot first, ask questions later.

But damn Racetrack for being a traitor!! She was one of my favorite secondary characters. The only way I see this ending is for all the traitors to be airlocked, with the exception of Gaeta, whom I hope Adama shoots in the head.


With this observation in between....


Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about a lack of gray area (at least, a lack of gray area from my perspective). I sometimes feel writers of movies and television shows try too hard to make things gray and morally relative these days.

To me at least it seems that a gray area is, in fact, reached when weighing both extremes: the rebels aren't all good, the conventional Leaders (Adama and Roslin) had not been produced the outcome they had promised and prophesied, the Colonials are divided (as they have often been in the past) with fear magnifying their prejudices and their all-too-legitimate grievances against the Cylons for their past actions.

The ambivalence we've seen Adama exhibit (not two or three episodes ago) against Tigh (which led to a temporary breakdown) is now playing out among the colonials as a whole as well as among us, the viewing audience.

Our reaction to the various factions appears to reveal more about ourselves than about some black and white absolute moral order. I couldn't disagree more with the last quotation above.

The writers have absolutely created a gray area where moral relativism abounds. As Adama said when turning over BSG's ship's logs to Cain, "context matters", which is as succinct a description of relativism as can be made.

Whatever our immediate feelings are in response to these tumultuous events: a hardening or dissolving sense of loyalty, a sense of injury and unaddressed affronts, recriminations, and a sense of outraged righteousness--all these reactions ought to be examined in the context of each participants perspective.

I think almost everyone believes themselves to be acting rightly in the role they are currently playing (excepting perhaps the uber-cynical Baltar and Zarek, I mean you have to be judgmental about someone).

Arative
January 30th, 2009, 08:12 PM
If you're willing to abandon your principles--for any reason whatsoever--I don't think life is much worth living. That's the entire point of having principles in the first place. As this series has rightly made clear right from the get-go, life for it's own sake isn't worth living. People need a reason to go on; we need a reason to justify why we're worthy of survival at all.

If those principles get tossed out the window (airlock) whenever they become inconvenient, what's the point?

Way back in season 1, Zarek said it best, I think in colonial day episode that the guy watering the plant was just going through the motions. That's what the quorum is doing really. Going through the motions of pretending their old life still exists.

On the run for years, in a constant state of war, the democracy that they had on the colonies just doesn't work any more. Certainly what Zarek and Gaeta is doing isn't democracy. Roslin and Adama are doing what is best for the fleet and the survival of humanity, even if people don't agree with it. Increased FTL still gives them the best chance for survival.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 30th, 2009, 08:21 PM
Yes, that was their mistake on New Caprica. Giving up and thinking they were safe and could rebuild.

I don't think that is what Adama and Roslin are doing now. They are doing what is in the best interest of the surviving humans by upgrading the FTL drives so the ships can go further with the remaining fuel they have left. It gives the humans a better chance of survival. Zarek is using the natural distrust of cylons to ferment the rebellion in order to gain power but time and time again, Adama and Roslin have been shown to make the right decisions.

Right decisions... like finding Earth?

Arative
January 30th, 2009, 08:25 PM
Right decisions... like finding Earth?

They found it, not their fault it was nuked to hell. Their leadership would still be better than anyone else in the fleet.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 30th, 2009, 08:27 PM
Way back in season 1, Zarek said it best, I think in colonial day episode that the guy watering the plant was just going through the motions. That's what the quorum is doing really. Going through the motions of pretending their old life still exists.

On the run for years, in a constant state of war, the democracy that they had on the colonies just doesn't work any more. Certainly what Zarek and Gaeta is doing isn't democracy. Roslin and Adama are doing what is best for the fleet and the survival of humanity, even if people don't agree with it. Increased FTL still gives them the best chance for survival.

It also gives the Cylons (who can't be trusted) a perfect way to track them regardless of where they go.

Sure they may be able to jump a little further but what's the difference between jumping a little ways into a metaphorical wilderness and jumping a long ways into it?

Replicator Todd
January 30th, 2009, 08:28 PM
Fantastic episode! My favorite episode so far in the entire BSG series, I loved this episode soooo much!

Arative
January 30th, 2009, 08:35 PM
It also gives the Cylons (who can't be trusted) a perfect way to track them regardless of where they go.

Sure they may be able to jump a little further but what's the difference between jumping a little ways into a metaphorical wilderness and jumping a long ways into it?

Its been stated on the show that you can't track someone through a jump, so the FTL drives would not give the Cylons a way to track them. Some cylon's can't be trusted, other cylon's certainly can be trusted. I'd trust Athena or Tigh over most humans.

The difference is with a finite fuel supply, jumping farther will less fuel is better for the fleet, so they might find a refuge in the wilderness.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 30th, 2009, 08:39 PM
Its been stated on the show that you can't track someone through a jump, so the FTL drives would not give the Cylons a way to track them. Some cylon's can't be trusted, other cylon's certainly can be trusted. I'd trust Athena or Tigh over most humans.

The difference is with a finite fuel supply, jumping farther will less fuel is better for the fleet, so they might find a refuge in the wilderness.

I'm not saying they would track them by their jumps. I'm saying they'd be installing their tech on the fleet's ships. Which is exactly what Six used Baltar to do in the first place.

HAL2100
January 30th, 2009, 08:42 PM
I wonder if what was said in the preview next weeks episode was true. about Colonel Tigh being killed; it better not be true.

If it happens, just remember that he's not really dead - just in line for a download.

tech100
January 30th, 2009, 08:43 PM
I'm not saying they would track them by their jumps. I'm saying they'd be installing their tech on the fleet's ships. Which is exactly what Six used Baltar to do in the first place.

Interesting... that could be partly why the civilians wouldn't want Cylon tech on there ships.

anotherquestion
January 30th, 2009, 08:52 PM
Interesting... that could be partly why the civilians wouldn't want Cylon tech on there ships.

If Cylons could track Cylon-tech FTL jumps, it seems logical that the "Brother Cavil" faction would have jumped some lobotomized vipers to the fleet by now.

I'd assume that all uncoordinated FTL jumps were untraceable.

Of course there is still the problem with the pesky "33" minute latency for the Cylons following the Colonials jumps in episode 1. I suspect this had more to do with the Colonials limited jump range and conventional "lightspeed" broadcasts (from 33 minutes of a lightyear away) of the current Colonial position from the skinjobs aboard the "Evening Star" liner.

Bruman
January 30th, 2009, 09:02 PM
I can see both sides to the FTL question, and its very believable that the fleet would be all divided on wether to prioritize finding a new home or staying away from the cylons more. Just because they're friendli-ER, doesn't mean they can be trusted.

But it looks like Zarek is really the main guy here. One should use the governmental process to come up with some kind of agreement, but Zarek wants to use the moment to eliminate Adama, who will not let him act as Vice President, while Rosslyn is basically out of the picture. To that end he allies with Gaeta and company to stir mutiny. So this didn't need to be a civil war where humans are basically destroying their own capacity to fight the cylons. Zarek is the real driver here (though Adama bears some blame for threatening a coup of his own).

Gaeta is in over his head. He will not be able to maintain leadership for long. Interesting that lover-boy Hoshi wasn't in on the plot.

As for communications. When coups happen here on Earth, the first place the military seizes are the radio and TV stations, because it's important to keep as many people in the dark as possible. In the age of the internet and cell phones that may be much tricker to do.

STC
January 30th, 2009, 09:03 PM
This was one amazing episode! I spent most of the episode riveted to my seat and eyes agog. The writers certainly have shown a change in Gaeta, who was at one time (IMHO), calm, fair and pretty easy going into a furious, raging traitor. It was masterful watching him control the communication access to the CIC and manipulate the other characters.

He rages to Kara about being airlocked but he also forgets that it was someone who turned out to be a Cylon (Tyrol) that made it clear to the others that he bore no grudge about what happened on New Caprica.

He is a leading this charge.........could he be 'the dying leader"??

daniel9
January 30th, 2009, 09:43 PM
that was a great ep . cant wait for next week . hm according to the podcast. we know now who the person thats clawing for the light. gaeta is going in the opposite direction and hes gonna get his int he end. theres no way adama will get kiled tho. do we even know where the fine five resurrection ship is besides on earth?

pristinaheather
January 30th, 2009, 10:13 PM
I LOVED this episode. I don't even know what else to say. It was just SO good.

Obviously Gaeta and Zarek aren't going to be able to keep control, but the pile of bodies in the mean time is going to be spectacular. I was Shocked at some of the mutineers. Actually Stunned. Racetrack. I mean,Really? Wow. She was the first to jump on the Athena bandwagon. Diana didn't surprise me all that much, but some of the Marines and Pilots that turned certainly did.

I hope Tigh doesn't really die in the coming episode, but if he does I glad he and Adama got to sort things out first. Kara kicking into warrior mode made me happy, it really is the only time she seems completely confident in herself. I also agree with her 'kill the enemy' mentality. At this point they really have no other option. With so few Humans and Rebel Cylons left they do need each other to survive. Who's fault it is, Human or Cylon, cant be a factor because the perception of both sides is tainted by the experiences of war. They can only make rational decisions based on the future, and the future for both factions looks grim without each other. The Humans have limited resources and failing equipment. The Cylons are traitors to their race, also with limited resources, and without the ability to procreate. For the most part anyway, we have no idea why Tigh and Caprica Six are fertile. And who's to say the other final five would be so lucky when paired with either Cylon or Human, depending on which faction the final five chose. The only option is to pool resources and colonize. But to do that they need to escape the other Cylons, obviously. If Rosalin had not gone into her depression, and just talked to the quarum and the citizens much if this could probably have been avoided.

The mutineers are basically opting to go down fighting, a decision based on their combined bitterness and rage. The Human race will die, but at least they didn't abandon their principals. Its BS. Gaeta and Zarak are doing it for other reasons. Zarak knows how to seem like hes a true patriot and all that nonsense, but in actuality its about power. Its always been about power for him. Hes smart enough to see all the variables, but he chooses the ones that suit his need for power. This one makes him president and the military in his pocket. Gaeta, I honestly wonder if hes just gone crazy. He was very idealistic, maybe the pressure of reality finally just became to much for him. The choices he has made have all been terrible, many of them detrimental to the survival of the human race. The network in season two, the many bad choices during the Cylon occupation of New Caprica, and finally the attempted mutiny on the Demetrius which led to him getting his leg shot off. I cant wait to see who gets to kill them both. I picture Kara for Gaeta, and either Lee or Adama for Zarak.

Finally I would like to ponder the futures of the captive Cylons in the brig. Namely the females. More rape on BSG? Not that I'm complaining. As a female I love the realism of what happened to the captive Six on Pegasus. I don't really wish it on the two female Cylons currently captive seeing as one is pregnant and the others has her toddler sitting a few feet away, but its possible. It would probably be easier to take if it were another poor Cylon. As for Sam and Helo, both are too chivalrous to just stand by and let it happen. Maybe that is the end for Helo that the actor fought to have changed. ( I read that somewhere, Not positive its true. )



I guess I did have some things to say.:psycho::psycho:

Its strange, I hated Dee, but would give anything to see her reaction to this cluster-frak.

helio9
January 30th, 2009, 10:21 PM
Brilliant episode. I can't wait to see how this plays out. I don't think killing Adama and Tigh is in the best interest of the uprising at this point, so we'll see what happens...I'm not saying their survival is guaranteed, but I don't think they'll kill them in that way, both at once.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 30th, 2009, 10:29 PM
If Cylons could track Cylon-tech FTL jumps, it seems logical that the "Brother Cavil" faction would have jumped some lobotomized vipers to the fleet by now.

I'd assume that all uncoordinated FTL jumps were untraceable.

Of course there is still the problem with the pesky "33" minute latency for the Cylons following the Colonials jumps in episode 1. I suspect this had more to do with the Colonials limited jump range and conventional "lightspeed" broadcasts (from 33 minutes of a lightyear away) of the current Colonial position from the skinjobs aboard the "Evening Star" liner.

People still aren't getting what I'm saying. I'm not saying the Cylons will track their jumps or track the actual tech. I'm saying they would be installing tech on the colonial ships. Tech that even Tyrol said he didn't understand. Even if they stood over their shoulders the whole time they'd have no idea what was being installed with the jump drives... like the little "smoke detectors" Six put on Galactica.

helio9
January 30th, 2009, 10:38 PM
People still aren't getting what I'm saying. I'm not saying the Cylons will track their jumps or track the actual tech. I'm saying they would be installing tech on the colonial ships. Tech that even Tyrol said he didn't understand. Even if they stood over their shoulders the whole time they'd have no idea what was being installed with the jump drives... like the little "smoke detectors" Six put on Galactica.
That's a good point. Even if they watched them the whole time, they wouldn't know if the Cylons had integrated remote control bombs into the systems. Oversight would be irrelevant if the overseers don't understand what they're looking at.

GateTrek2004
January 30th, 2009, 10:42 PM
frakking to be continued!!!!! This just proves to me why BSG is a great show! even though last weeks episode was a little slow, it DID set up lots of things that happen tonight!

If the previews are any indication of whats to come, I'm not gonna be happy, but i would understand in the grand scheme why it did!

i was going to look on IMDB (http://www.imbd.com) to see if in fact... Tigh or Adama dies like the preview says "Tigh was killed... and learned you CANNOT trust it! because according to them... Dee, who died 2 episodes was in last weeks episode, as well as tonight's episode and the last 7! I did not see Dee ANYWHERE in the last 2 episodes did you? so i can't trust it and it also did not credited people who WERE in this weeks episode: Hot Dog, Racetrack, Skulls, Connor, one of Baltar's groupies, a few others too.

Back40
January 30th, 2009, 10:58 PM
AWESOME, AWESOME, AWESOME!!!!

This episode is all about why I watch this show....real drama and great characters (whether you love 'em or hate 'em).

But I HATE the "to be continued"....how the frak am I supposed to concentrate on work for the next week??!!

*headdesk*

BobBot
January 31st, 2009, 12:21 AM
Frakking brilliant! That has to be one of, if not the, best pieces of TV ever!

So much to take in... but how much of a man is the Admiral!? Turning to the fit, tall marine, telling him to shoot to see if he's got a pair, then facepunching the traitor and taking his weapons! Serious stones on Adama!

BobBot
January 31st, 2009, 01:06 AM
All I heard was that they had been found guilty of treason and would be executed.

It wouldn't surprise me though, Tigh getting executed. It can't be Adama.

Killing one or more of the final five would open the doorway to see them reintroduced somehow, or to shed light on them.



Please, please use spoiler tags! This thread is supposed to be about ep13 - I don't want to know what's coming next. I don't watch the previews so that I won't know - I don't even watch the opening credits so that I don't see clips of the episode I'm about to watch. Spoiler tags let you talk about what's to come while giving people the chance not to see your text, just like in the post you responded to.

Speculation about upcoming episodes is okay, because it's not fact - I don't want to know about future eps. :(

Wayston
January 31st, 2009, 01:20 AM
I found it very interesting to see how short sighted the revolution was... they only cared about taking over galactica regardless of the cost

the killing of the deckmaster and that Pegasus brute's performance as communications officer were very striking... the latter looked totally out of place as a communications handler and the scene where he couldn't perform a presumably fairly simple task of isolating a frequency and gaeta had to come in and do it himself was just awesome

they're going to have a hard time running the ship!

BobBot
January 31st, 2009, 01:33 AM
One thing I was thinking about is how there wasn't much gray area in this episode; at the very least, the writers did everything they could to kill any sympathy we might have had for the rebellion. All the rebels acted like complete asshats through the whole thing.

The ship had polarised - people had to commit to one side or another, there's no room to sit on the fence when people are fighting for their beliefs. No time for a debate when there's a gun at your head and you'll either take a bullet or live depending on which side you're on.

Personally, I have no sympathy for the rebels. Turning on their own people, killing men and women they fought alongside and whose lives they saved and were saved by, killing civilians... They don't deserve to live. And the coward Gaeta accusing Adama of treason takes the biscuit! Mutiny is hardly holding up the law when you kill non-combatants, civilians, threaten to rape prisoners and assist in a coup.

If they felt strongly about the decision to allow Cylons into the colonies, they should have formed their own fleet. Adama and the government would have let them have ships and supplies. The only problem with that is that they wouldn't have the military might of the Galactica and they are cowards. They kill fellow humans in order to save their own skin from their fear of the Cylons. If they truely valued human life and civilisation, they wouldn't be reducing the number of living humans. The Cylon tried to wipe out humanity, and the rebels are finishing the job for them.

The series might end with the rebels in control of the military, threatening any remaining loyalist ships. Roslin*, fearing the total annihilation of mankind, orders the Cylon baseship to destroy Galactica and any other rebel strongholds... possibly the whole fleet, except for those living on the baseship. The series that began with mankind fleeing a holocaust ends with mankind begging its enemies to finish what they started. Enough humans/final 5s are left alive to allow the cylon to start reproducing biologically and settle on a planet. Civilisation expands until one day the bombs start to fall all over again....

*Edit: Maybe Starbuck - she made it clear that traitors should be disposed of. The Admiral knows this to be true (his speech on the CiC) but he is sentimental in his dotage (letting the traitor marine go). And she's the Harbinger of Death or some such...

g.o.d
January 31st, 2009, 01:39 AM
fraking amazing episode. But I don't wanna wait seven days :(

Stormtrooper
January 31st, 2009, 01:43 AM
Amazing. Simply amazing. Gaeta is a dead man. If a civilian such as Baltar and Zarek had staged the coup, I would have understood, but little weasel Gaeta used his position on board Galactica to deceive his commanding officer and his colleagues.

Too bad about the cliffhanger! But dang, I've never felt more sympathetic towards the Cylons... Makes you wonder if nuking the colonies was not the right thing to do. Frak you homo sapiens! :D

g.o.d
January 31st, 2009, 01:48 AM
Amazing. Simply amazing. Gaeta is a dead man. If a civilian such as Baltar and Zarek had staged the coup, I would have understood, but little weasel Gaeta used his position on board Galactica to deceive his commanding officer and his colleagues.

Too bad about the cliffhanger! But dang, I've never felt more sympathetic towards the Cylons... Makes you wonder if nuking the colonies was not the right thing to do. Frak you homo sapiens! :D

I always liked cylons. Cavil is fraking amazing guy and superb villian

BobBot
January 31st, 2009, 01:50 AM
My biggest complaint about this episode was that Starbuck survived the first 15 minutes. The sloppy writing of the scene where she saves Apollo took me out of the element for the first half of the show.

There is absolutely no explanation why none of the rebels even bothered to at the very least pull their guns on her after she shot the first guy, much less after she shot the second.

She had her guns drawn and pointed. Starbuck is the best shot in the fleet, in or out of the cockpit (I think that was established in season 1, when she went with the marines to suppress the Astral Queen uprising) and has top-gun reflexes. Plus, Racetrack et al know Starbuck is unpredictable - and they still don't know what she is, her very presence induces fear. She probably didn't execute the rest because they might have had time to return fire before she could finish them all.

g.o.d
January 31st, 2009, 02:48 AM
Saul won't die and Ellen should be back in the next episode

metabog
January 31st, 2009, 03:07 AM
I don't get why Saul and Adama had to stay behind. There was plenty of time to get out. They weren't really protecting anything, the raptor was already gone.

BobBot
January 31st, 2009, 03:58 AM
I don't get why Saul and Adama had to stay behind. There was plenty of time to get out. They weren't really protecting anything, the raptor was already gone.

They didn't have to, they chose to. Adama said he couldn't live with himself if he left. Saul fights for what he believes in. They just weren't going to leave the ship to the traitors, even if it meant their own deaths.

rarocks24
January 31st, 2009, 04:22 AM
Shouldn't they have gotten Anders, Caprica, Athena and her child off the battlestar before having a jumper arrive and take the loyalists to the baseship?

jollyrogue
January 31st, 2009, 04:28 AM
Lee and Starbuck couldn't get to the brig, they tried somewhere in the episode., possibly too heavily guarded.

I don't want Gaeta to die.. no, i want Starbuck to shoot his other leg..

knowles2
January 31st, 2009, 06:29 AM
Brilliant ending.

Through I would love Adarma and tigh to of been smoking cigars in the final seen as they shooting through the door.

I think the majority of us are in agreement with gaeta needs to die.

Baltar , has redeem his character in this episode. I love how his follower already seem to know what going on all over the vessel.

I would love to off seen doc treating the sick and his own people trying to stay neutral in the fighting through.

A lot of people died in this epi, it was not planned to be bloodless coup by any means, I mean given that their always a few marines on the bridge, it could be pretty bloodless if they planned it that.

I Roslin speech was good, I hope we what effect s is has, it seem to quite a effect of the governing council, Zarek I got the feeling is already loosing his influence over them.

Gaeta and the mutinous traitors needs to die. Through Adarma saving that marine was the right thing to do, hope they bring that back into play next episode. With the Marine turning somehow helping them retake the ship.

I thought we would saw the Basestar look a bit more repaired by now.
I would like of seen what happening one the other vessels in the fleet through.

TheChosen1
January 31st, 2009, 07:00 AM
Too quick. I hope Starbuck cuts his other leg off with a rusty knife then Adama beats him to death with it.

Honestly, I think this cliffhanger is the best they've ever done (even better than finding Earth at the end of 4.0)

Prior to this episode, the best cliffhanger in Bsg was Crossroads II, when the final four found out they where cylons and when the cylons popped out of no where and the fleet has just lost all power and they dont have the FTL drives even close to be ready, while an impending attack was in their face. With Kara at the very end coming back and shocking the hell out of Lee, saying "I've been to earth and I know where it is" Coupled with the music, "All along the watch tower" the suspense and the drama was just sooooooooooooooooooooooooo intense.


This one we saw was along the same lines as the one I described. Awesome fraking show.


TheChosen1

BJdavidLS
January 31st, 2009, 07:18 AM
My biggest complaint about this episode was that Starbuck survived the first 15 minutes. The sloppy writing of the scene where she saves Apollo took me out of the element for the first half of the show.

There is absolutely no explanation why none of the rebels even bothered to at the very least pull their guns on her after she shot the first guy, much less after she shot the second.

And on top of that she gives her little tuff girl line and just runs away and they all just stand there. For a revolt as surprisingly effective as Geata's was, there's really no excuse for the poor writing in that scene.



Starbuck rescues Lee but leaves at least 3 of the guards alive.

Starbuck and Lee find Adama and Tigh and she goes frakkin ballistic wanting to kill their prisoner saying they all need to die.

Just sayin.


I didn't see that scene that strange after all, and sure not as sloppy writing.
Kara didn't really know or understand fully what was going on at the beginning. That may be why she didn't kill them all. And why the didn't respond with guns?? It might have been that Starbuck took them by surprise, very suddenly, and because they weren't prepared enough, they just didn't react because Starbuck, the best shooter, is simply too much for them and they wanted to live.
That's from my perspective.

I loved this episode very much, 20 minutes after watching it, I still believe it's the best one to date.

Bruman
January 31st, 2009, 08:46 AM
I found it hard to believe that they didn't shoot back at Kara after she shot two of them (one dead, and one possibly mortally wounded, IIRC). However, I cut them a little slack for suspension of disbelief, and it is possible that anyone that wasn't 100% committed to the mutiny would have had that moment of pause of not knowing what to do.

I liked the scene though, and didn't think it was sloppy writing.

obsidian1771
January 31st, 2009, 10:42 AM
Brill episode - WHAT A CLIFFHANGER!?!??!?!

I reckon' Tigh might have thrown himself on the grenade to save Adama, + then wakes up somewhere to find Ellen there waiting for him (maybe some kind of pseudo-ressurection or dream-like reality/vision like D'Anna had in the Temple of Five).

Any thoughts?

Detox
January 31st, 2009, 11:05 AM
Just a thought, but I wonder how this would've turned out if Major Shaw never died and was still in charge of the Marines?

huntress
January 31st, 2009, 12:14 PM
I think I agree with both points. They're great actors (especially Olmos) but the characters aren't exactly "good guys"

There are no good guys in BSG and this is what I love about it so much. All characters have many shades of grey. It is very realistic. No one is completely good or completely bad. As much as I don't like dictatorship, the show showed us what would happen if there isn't a strong leader in such a small and desperate group of people. Chaos and anarchy. The quorum is basically useless and they need too much time to come to any kind of decision. That is fine in peaceful times when no drastic measures have to be taken but in the case of Galactica, we have a group of people who have been constantly running away from an enemy that has better weapons. They supplies are limited, space is cramped, the ships are falling apart and the enemy just a step behind them (well they were for most of the time). It didn't allow the luxury of long debates and slow decision making. I understand Laura and Bill completely when they say they have to make deal. They have very little fuel and little food and they have to find a planet soon or humanity will die out. I understand the colonists that are bitter and what Lee said to Saul is of course completely the truth. They wouldn't be in the situation in the first place if the Cylons hadn't destroyed the 12 colonies and this is something that no one can forget but to deny the Cylon FTL drives and their help now is like stubbornly denying an outstretched hand while sinking in a tar pit. It is just plain stupid. Regarding the preview: Way to go Skiffy. Thanks for spoiling us. -_-

Regarding The Oath: I loved it, loved it, loved it. :D

I loved the fact that the continuity wasn't breached and I loved everything about it. I sort of missed the BSG a bit, that kicked some serious ass. I loved seeing a furious Bill, I loved Bill and Laura (and when the two basically made out in front of everyone and the looks of Lee and Kara whch was exactly how any kid would react seeing their parents making out LOL), I loved to see both Kara and Lee kick some ass and also Saul. It is so good to see that Bill and Saul are back in being the furious two. There was so much to love about this episode. The scene with Saul and Bill drinking coffee together and Laura walking in from the back just wearing a bathrobe, smiling at him while getting also some coffee. i just had to laugh at the dumbfounded expression from Saul. Come on Saul, you knew that the two of them were together, it is just that they have been more discreet until now ^_^ I also loved Tyrol. I wasn't really sure on what side he would be but that has become clear now. His allegiance is still firmly with Adama.

rarocks24
January 31st, 2009, 12:16 PM
I can't believe that Anders, the guy that kept the colonials alive on Caprica/New Caprica, was betrayed by Seelix and Racetrack. That's crap. And I actually liked Seelix. Right now, I'm ticked off.

g.o.d
January 31st, 2009, 12:40 PM
I liked Racetrack, Athena was her ECO. And now this? They all deserve to be airlocked, with quorom

Back40
January 31st, 2009, 12:50 PM
I can't believe that Anders, the guy that kept the colonials alive on Caprica/New Caprica, was betrayed by Seelix and Racetrack. That's crap. And I actually liked Seelix. Right now, I'm ticked off.

"Love hath no fury like a woman scorned". I really liked Seelix too, but she's made her bed and now she'll have to lie in it, and if you lie down with dogs, you'll get up with fleas.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 31st, 2009, 01:20 PM
She had her guns drawn and pointed. Starbuck is the best shot in the fleet, in or out of the cockpit (I think that was established in season 1, when she went with the marines to suppress the Astral Queen uprising) and has top-gun reflexes. Plus, Racetrack et al know Starbuck is unpredictable - and they still don't know what she is, her very presence induces fear. She probably didn't execute the rest because they might have had time to return fire before she could finish them all.


I didn't see that scene that strange after all, and sure not as sloppy writing.
Kara didn't really know or understand fully what was going on at the beginning. That may be why she didn't kill them all. And why the didn't respond with guns?? It might have been that Starbuck took them by surprise, very suddenly, and because they weren't prepared enough, they just didn't react because Starbuck, the best shooter, is simply too much for them and they wanted to live.
That's from my perspective.

I loved this episode very much, 20 minutes after watching it, I still believe it's the best one to date.

They weren't caught off guard after the first guy was shot. Their guns should've been drawn. They're not civilians.

You can justify it however you like, but in a situation like that Starbuck should be dead and it is sloppy writing when the "big bad hero" gets to just stand there shooting people left and right and they not only don't shoot back but don't even draw their guns on her.

Arative
January 31st, 2009, 01:35 PM
I can't believe that Anders, the guy that kept the colonials alive on Caprica/New Caprica, was betrayed by Seelix and Racetrack. That's crap. And I actually liked Seelix. Right now, I'm ticked off.

If you watch the Marine's actions, you can tell he isn't quite ok with the whole situation. When Gaeta orders the Marine to arrest Adama, he asks Adama to come with him and he still obeys Adama's order not to touch him. Adama talks to him about New Caprica, and the Marine seems to want to relate, even though the 2nd one tells him to be quiet

At that point, Adama knows the Marine isn't fully willing in this situation and still has some loyalty/respect for Adama. That's why he turned towards him, knowing the Marine wouldn't be able to shoot him. Deep down Adama wants to redeem some of those men. You also need to watch some other subtle clues during the episode on the mindset of people: Racetrack's "WTF" look when they start beating up Apollo, or Seelix's look after they bag Anders. There's alot of second thoughts floating around from what I can see. I think in the next episode we are going to see some want to come back into the Adama fold. Mob mentality is an extremely strong force. Good people will get caught up in bad stuff very easily.

So that gives me hope that at least some people can be redeemed but for Gaeta and Zarek out the airlock! Or maybe Starbuck can rip Gaeta's other leg off and beat him to death with it, that would be cool.

Detox
January 31st, 2009, 01:43 PM
I think if Shaw was alive, and in this episode, she would've been able to stop the rebellion.

Most of the marines on Galactica are Pegasus marines. Galactica only had a few dozen. It made sense that they'd go against Adama seeing as they don't feel as attached to him as they did to Pegasus's command crew.

godless
January 31st, 2009, 01:50 PM
Great episode, some really wild character and plot developments, and so many cool moments, like Starbuck saving Apollo, Adama and Tigh's Last Stand, Gaeta's treachery...but I think what freaked me out the most was the weird edgy half-insane sound in Roslin's voice when she says, "I'm coming for all of you!" in next week's teaser/trailer. And that got me thinking: Roslin hasn't been the same since they found ruined Earth, and maybe she's become more unhinged than anyone suspects. I'm not sure what shape the baseship is in, but it's armed at any rate. Imagine, Roslin, crushed by Adama's death, decides to nuke Galactica. Could happen!

Ehhh...maybe not. :)

omgpix
January 31st, 2009, 02:13 PM
The problem with Gaeta and his minions is that they're (unfortunately) human.
The choice to forgive and live is only obvious to the rational observer. IRL, you can count on a sizable amount of the participants to opt for the Ahab route.

He needs to be put down. Not out of revenge, but so he doesn't lead everyone to the bottom of the sea.

Platschu
January 31st, 2009, 02:31 PM
The episode gave back my hope to BSG. It was almost perfect. :D

I didn't like they send only two soldier to guard Tigh and Adama to the cell. This is unlogic. :o

magictrick
January 31st, 2009, 02:36 PM
Another great episode. Using the previous episode to build up for this one was definitely worth it.

Of course there were a few "illogical" aspects, but its SciFi, what can you do. Like Kara was outnumbered when she rescued Lee, they could've returned fire to her. And also, sending only 2 marines to guard Adama and Tigh? Really? Maybe they couldn't spare any more or something.

No point in getting caught up in minor details though, overall it was an amazing episode and I can't wait for next week's.

Bruman
January 31st, 2009, 03:02 PM
Very likely they couldn't spare any more. There aren't all that many marines to begin with, not all of them are necessarily mutineers, and they have to take control of the bridge.

More interesting is the bit about how Tom Zarek clearly wanted them killed right away. Gaeta is probably going to regret not doing that, but you never know.

Chev's Ron
January 31st, 2009, 03:59 PM
Brilliant, chilling, and needed!

Gaeta's mutiny is nothing short of stupidity and arrogance. Certinantly the fleet is going to die much faster without cylon FTL capability, from a military standpoint, removing the admiral of your battlestar shows blatant disreguard for the chain of command. How long does he expect to be in power?

He and Zarek are fraked, the civilian population heard Roslin plead with them to stay the course, and they failed to jam the transmission until Roslin had essentially made her case. The worst moment possible, even with the fleets disappointment of roslin's administration, I don't see how many civilians could ignore such a heart-felt plea from Roslin.\

"It has been an honor to serve with you... MY FRIEND" That line was the best in the entire episode.

I feel very bad for anders, for one's ex to sit by while people kick the **** out of you with a smirk on her face, that has to hit him hard. (No pun intended).

I hope that Athena doesn't get raped, God forbid with her daughter there...

I happened to notice how many marines were murdered, along with the civilians, I'm suprised we wern't shown more marines/personell fighting back against the others except for the 12 or so helping barricade everything in Baltar's sanctuary.

Lightbane
January 31st, 2009, 05:24 PM
Some people may have forgotten this but

A) No resurrection, the hub is dead
B) The basestar's raiders are all dead, they lost them in the ambush with the Cavil ships

But still that doesn't mean they can't launch a few missiles at the viper chasing the raptor.

The basestar will probably send out a signal on all channels so Roslin can talk to the fleet again.

And I think

Raptor docks with Colonial One and Roslin kills Zarek, she's been wanting to do something like that ever since he got released from the prison ship.

Adama will kill Gaeta

And one or two of the Brig guards will have second thoughts club the mutaineers over the head with their rifle and open the doors. Helo will lead this group with Athena and Six for support.

If any of the F5 die, my money is on Anders.

EDIT: Just checked the preview for the next episode and hehe I think my suspicions will be confirmed correct. Roslin is going to use the basestar to force the rebels to backdown

GateTrek2004
January 31st, 2009, 07:42 PM
I think if Shaw was alive, and in this episode, she would've been able to stop the rebellion.

Most of the marines on Galactica are Pegasus marines. Galactica only had a few dozen. It made sense that they'd go against Adama seeing as they don't feel as attached to him as they did to Pegasus's command crew.

That is true! Galactica only had a handful, and Pegasus did have some!

GateTrek2004
January 31st, 2009, 07:47 PM
The episode gave back my hope to BSG. It was almost perfect. :D

I didn't like they send only two soldier to guard Tigh and Adama to the cell. This is unlogic. :o

well you have to think, they were still trying to secure different areas of the ship and putting down resistance to the mutiny so logically they left fewest as possible to guard them: 1 per prisoner. I think even if they has several guards adama and tigh would have put them down regardless.

s09119
January 31st, 2009, 08:24 PM
This was the best episode of the series, if you ask me, and it was simply amazing. While I agree that Adama and Roslin have suspended true democracy for too long, they are doing what is best for humanity; Gaeta and Zereck, on the other hand, are doing things for a misguided, self-destructive sense of righteousness and a pure lust for power, respectively.

Can't wait for next week.

Replicator Todd
January 31st, 2009, 08:34 PM
I'm most excited about the Cylon Base Ship getting involved in the next episode, I wonder if Gaeta(or Zareck) will decide to fire on it.

GateTrek2004
January 31st, 2009, 09:08 PM
According to the Podcast The Oath will filmed BEFORE the Face of the enemy webisodes so that's why there wasn't any other banter between gaeta and hoshi since it was established in FotE they were having a relationship

tricky
January 31st, 2009, 09:11 PM
First of all, I renew my open complaint to the guy who edits the Preveiws of future episodes!
Unless they edited the audio to say it, Saul is dead! Probably the best character in BSG, imho.

Very powerful episode. Scary how Kara was so excited by the action (she is the Harbinger, though). Good seeing the Baltar bunch helping out, both as an escape and as a secondary line of communication.
I think one of the best moments was Adama standing over the dead private, obviously enraged that this kid had taken a bullet (fired by traitors) meant for him, and how he pointed out that he had honored his uniform. I know some people wanted that kid to be someone we know, but I think it's actually better he was just a regular no-name guy.

Ok, so you hate the cylons for almost wipeing out humanity, so you KILL a bunch of your fellow humans? I noticed a lot of dead people in the corridors; that dry erase board on the Prez's ship is going to need some major changes.

But, and this is me being devil's advocate, but the Cylons might get full amnesty for wipeing out pretty much all mankind, but the Mutinieers have no hope of amenesty? So, what do you do with them? Drop them off on a rock somewhere? Lock them up for the rest of their lives? I guess you could kill them all, but then you're back to lowering the number of humans in the fleet and/or losing alot of highly trained personel.

Dinker
January 31st, 2009, 11:02 PM
Did anyone notice that one of the Marines (Maldonado) who beat up Anders and got shot by Adama was played by Craig Veroni, aka Peter Grodin from Atlantis Season 1?

maneth
January 31st, 2009, 11:29 PM
Very good episode! This is what BSG is all about, conflict and very believable characters. I can't find the interview now, but when they were shooting this season Alessandro Juliani said that he was very happy that Gaeta had survived to episode 4.18.

BobBot
February 1st, 2009, 12:16 AM
I think in the next episode we are going to see some want to come back into the Adama fold.

Good luck to them! Adama is sentimental, but he's not going to welcome them all back with open arms. Maybe he'll make an example and decimate them, starting with Gaeta (assuming that the military retakes the ship). Kill Gaeta slow so that he knows he is dying, the others should be shot. Zarek should be arrested and executed as a conspirator. No more second chances, just a bullet - he's done enough damage.

I'm rewatching all the previous episodes, and something that really strikes me is how Gaeta has descended from textbook-perfect officer, to turncoat informer, to traitor. His actions on New Caprica seem to have left him feeling like he manipulate the situation to 'save' people but now his ego and hurt have led him down a dark path.

Baltar showed remorse and had no choice when he signed death warrants, but he's never actually done anything to kill people. Letting Six into the defense computers was arrogant and served his own ego, but he didn't know what the results would be. Gaeta knew the revolt would cost many lives and went ahead with it. It's like the humans no longer care. They have fought for so long, lost so much, they have given up hope and are seeking their own destruction as a way out. Dualla did the same, but she didn't kill anyone who wanted to keep going - just herself.

BobBot
February 1st, 2009, 12:35 AM
But, and this is me being devil's advocate, but the Cylons might get full amnesty for wipeing out pretty much all mankind, but the Mutinieers have no hope of amenesty? So, what do you do with them? Drop them off on a rock somewhere? Lock them up for the rest of their lives? I guess you could kill them all, but then you're back to lowering the number of humans in the fleet and/or losing alot of highly trained personel.




Most of the marines on Galactica are Pegasus marines. Galactica only had a few dozen. It made sense that they'd go against Adama seeing as they don't feel as attached to him as they did to Pegasus's command crew.

I think the mutineers each need to be executed or brought back into the fleet. Execute the leaders and those who willfully killed others. Marooning them risks building up trouble for the future - if there's one thing the leaders should have realised by now, it's that if you don't nip a problem in the bud, it grows. Abandoning them or imprisoning them would only build up further resentment. What if Cavil's lot found the mutineers? He would quite happily send them back to the fleet to finish what they started, only this time better armed, trained and with a few thousand Centurions.

Without Pegasus, the marines loyalty will be to the military, so they should be loyal to Adama. If they are totally against the BSG crew, then they wouldn't listen to Gaeta and his mutiny, they would expose it or put it down themselves. I think the situation has gone beyond loyalties for many of the crew, they are acting out of their own fear.

helio9
February 1st, 2009, 01:01 AM
Without Pegasus, the marines loyalty will be to the military, so they should be loyal to Adama. If they are totally against the BSG crew, then they wouldn't listen to Gaeta and his mutiny, they would expose it or put it down themselves. I think the situation has gone beyond loyalties for many of the crew, they are acting out of their own fear.

Exactly. Thats the whole point of BSG. Even the marines are people, they aren't blindly loyal. They think, they know their prospects for a happy future are pretty slim. They're just as unhinged as anybody else. They're not machines just because they're marines.

mr_kennedy
February 1st, 2009, 04:01 AM
great episode

things i liked

tigh/adama seems to have resolved there differences
galen tyrol :) i havent liked him all this season
tigh/starbuck/lee/adama kicked ass
roslin, for some reason i really liked her in this episode, however i have liked her since season 4 began

things i didnt like

gaeta :mad: even arresting his boyfriend what the frak is wrong with him?
no ellen, the fifth cylon storyline seems to have been scraped :(
helo, that guy is a moron *in midst of a crises* get ready for day care sweaty



Very good episode! This is what BSG is all about, conflict and very believable characters. I can't find the interview now, but when they were shooting this season Alessandro Juliani said that he was very happy that Gaeta had survived to episode 4.18.

that is not soon enough, by ur sig u seem to be a fan, and i use to be aswell but he really made mad in this and the previous episode

and to think i use to consider him one of my favorite characters :mad:

Dusk
February 1st, 2009, 04:24 AM
If they don't take Gaeta's walking stick and shove it up his ass and then paint the CiC walls with his brain matter... well they had better! And I have had it in for Seelix since early days, so she'd better be joining the new interior decoration. Narcho, Racetrack, Connor, those two twats from Pegasus, Kelly, and Zarack, the whole mutinous mob... they'll all get wasted in the reckoning, but not before a few friendly faces bite the dust.

In Helo's defence (and I used to hate ol' Karl) if he had gotten his weapon and used it to defend the Agathons, the three of them would likely have just been killed anyway. He probably realised that surrender was going to be a better option.

I have stayed well clear of spoilers, so I think I'm one of the few on here who will enjoy the rest of this season more than all you undisciplined spoiler hunters out there.

Hatcheter
February 1st, 2009, 04:28 AM
Holy frak what an episode! This show is brutal to it's viewers, and I love every minute of it.

To everyone saying that Starbuck got Lee out of the hanger too easily, take a closer look at the tactical situation. There were five mutineers, but only one with a weapon in hand. Starbuck dropped him before they knew she was there, and had her weapon up and ready. Even if they all went for their sidearms, she'd kill most before they could could get their weapons lined up on her, and no one seemed interested in taking that chance.

Except maybe Snake, who had his hand on his pistol when Starbuck shot him. At that point, the other three are just hoping she'd leave without killing them.

huntress
February 1st, 2009, 04:54 AM
In Helo's defence (and I used to hate ol' Karl) if he had gotten his weapon and used it to defend the Agathons, the three of them would likely have just been killed anyway. He probably realised that surrender was going to be a better option.



: nods : I am with you there. He couldn't simply think like a normal soldier those guyse were threatening his wive and his little daughter. It is despicable that both Racetrack and Seelix are now part of that revolt. regarding Felix. I actually bow before the BSG writers team. I think it is amazing how many characters have switched sides. I can't stand Felix and I also used to love him but Alessandro Juliani is doing a wonderful job. BSG is really blessed that they have such a talented crew of actors. If life would be fair then BSG should have won an SAG award for "Outstanding Performance by an Ensemble in a Drama Series". Maybe next year or am I hoping for too much?

Skydiver
February 1st, 2009, 05:59 AM
i think also, not all the mutineers are ready to murder. take control, yeah, kill others, no

and starbuck took advantage of that. starbuck the 'hero' was actually more brutal than the bad guys

s09119
February 1st, 2009, 06:09 AM
i think also, not all the mutineers are ready to murder. take control, yeah, kill others, no

and starbuck took advantage of that. starbuck the 'hero' was actually more brutal than the bad guys

And that's why we love her :)

boeli
February 1st, 2009, 06:45 AM
i now see why the Cylons wiped out humanity in the first place, always people who are not happy with what they have and always wanting more. at first i hated teh cylons for what they did but now i dont anymore.
I hope they hang the traitors in the hangerbay or something so that everyone who enters Galactica will see that mutiny is not tolerated and i still odnt understand why Kara didnt kill those other three people when she rescued lee.
in defence if racetrack and seelix, they might be force to play their role in fear of reprecussions by the traitors, something like say a word and ill kill you

Back40
February 1st, 2009, 07:14 AM
I think one of the best moments was Adama standing over the dead private, obviously enraged that this kid had taken a bullet (fired by traitors) meant for him, and how he pointed out that he had honored his uniform. I know some people wanted that kid to be someone we know, but I think it's actually better he was just a regular no-name guy.

Actually, we did know this boy, from "A Day in the Life". (I liked him in that episode, kind of an endearing, wet-behind-the-ears, eager-to-please boy :))

He delivered coffee to a somewhat distracted Admiral on the morning of his anniversary and Adama didn't know his name at first, but committed it to memory. "Jaffey brings me coffee, Jaffey brings me coffee".

And honor his uniform he certainly did, selflessly and deliberately taking a bullet for his admiral.:cameron21:

ToasterOnFire
February 1st, 2009, 08:19 AM
This was such a great ep, I can't wait to watch it again (skiffy reruns eps on Saturday? I can never seem to find them). What worked best for me was how so many factors were featured that I thought were missing recently - Roslin back as the pres, Roslin talking with Baltar, Kara kicking ass with Lee, Adama and Tigh laying the smackdown.

I thought the smooch between Adama and Roslin was wonderful and Baltar's expression in particular was hilarious. And then I thought about it too much and got scared that TPTB put in such a long scene because they're never going to see each other again... :(

There was plenty of time for Adama and Tigh to join them on the shuttle for a clean escape, but I figured that they stayed behind much like a captain stays behind on a sinking ship. But perhaps someone can help with conflicting reports - did Lee and Kara also get on the shuttle, they just weren't shown, or did they take a different route and they're still on Galactica?

I liked the little things too, like how Gaeta was rubbing his limb because of the fake leg, much like how he chafed at his new role of murderer for the rebellion.

Zarek is such a skeev, jeez. Smashed the deck chief's head in with a wrench and popped into Colonial One all business and smooth talker. Creepy.

I thought the return of the cylon rapist was a bit much, but it did serve as a reminder of how close the fleet is to devolving into the ugliness of the Pegasus group.

I imagine we'll see Tory next week on the basestar. I'm still waiting and wondering if we'll get some kind of resolution with her airlocking Cally.

If Cavil was stalking the fleet, I'm sure he'd be laughing at the uprising right now. I'm not sure why Adama et al haven't been reminding the fleet of his continued menace to get them to shut up and install those drives already.


Did anyone notice that one of the Marines (Maldonado) who beat up Anders and got shot by Adama was played by Craig Veroni, aka Peter Grodin from Atlantis Season 1?
Oh my! I knew I recognized him from somewhere but couldn't place him! Thanks! :)

Bruman
February 1st, 2009, 08:37 AM
I wonder if the Cylons will be understanding, given that they have just had their own civil war. Maybe the Cylons will just run off with some humans and found their own interbred civilization, leaving the rest to tear each other apart.

g.o.d
February 1st, 2009, 08:42 AM
poor Laird, his entire family slained by the humans and he was killed by a human.

Shan Bruce Lee
February 1st, 2009, 09:16 AM
To everyone saying that Starbuck got Lee out of the hanger too easily, take a closer look at the tactical situation. There were five mutineers, but only one with a weapon in hand. Starbuck dropped him before they knew she was there, and had her weapon up and ready. Even if they all went for their sidearms, she'd kill most before they could could get their weapons lined up on her, and no one seemed interested in taking that chance.

Except maybe Snake, who had his hand on his pistol when Starbuck shot him. At that point, the other three are just hoping she'd leave without killing them.

Only if they all just stand there and do nothing. If they all break for cover while drawing their weapons, she has to let another have more time in order to shoot at one, plus she has to keep an eye on where Apollo is so she doesn't shoot him.

Again, after she took out the first guy it's still 4-1 and she's out in the open. On any show with quality action, Starbuck is dead. (*Or more likely somebody realizes this and the scene is done differently)

Back40
February 1st, 2009, 09:32 AM
There was plenty of time for Adama and Tigh to join them on the shuttle for a clean escape, but I figured that they stayed behind much like a captain stays behind on a sinking ship. But perhaps someone can help with conflicting reports - did Lee and Kara also get on the shuttle, they just weren't shown, or did they take a different route and they're still on Galactica?

On a sinking, well-armed ship that could blow the rest of the fleet apart, and with Vipers and Raptors to take out the baseship (which has no Raiders for defence) with Laura on board....

And no way Adama would leave behind those loyal members of his crew, including his son and "daughter", to be cut apart by the revolutionaries (or whatever the frak they're calling themselves).

Yes, Lee and Kara went back the way they came through the maintenance access tunnel, or whatever it was, with Tyrol.

Back40
February 1st, 2009, 09:48 AM
Again, after she took out the first guy it's still 4-1 and she's out in the open. On any show with quality action, Starbuck is dead. (*Or more likely somebody realizes this and the scene is done differently)

She's got cover, heavy metal toolbox within arm's reach. Mobile cover. She's taken out one before anyone even sees her, and it's funny how putting a bullet into a man's head and having his blood spatter all over your antagonists causes them to freeze. Then Skulls just flaps his lips and she doesn't even pause for breath before she puts a round in him. She obviously means business. And she has two weapons out. Now, are you gonna be the first person to open your mouth or make a sudden move and draw down fire? ;)

Back40
February 1st, 2009, 09:50 AM
poor Laird, his entire family slained by the humans and he was killed by a human.

By a sub-human, IMHO....

g.o.d
February 1st, 2009, 09:51 AM
Cavil should wait few weeks and finish the rest. It won't be that hard

Skydiver
February 1st, 2009, 09:54 AM
there were a bunch of SG cameos in The Oath

on CiC, one of the women techs ducking for cover was in Hathor and was one of the women that helped Sam take back the base.

and there was at least a couple others that i can't recall at the moment

You can tell that BSG is done in vancouver :D

dosed150
February 1st, 2009, 09:59 AM
Great episode. Lots of people are dead, big plot developments. I loved it when Starbuck owned those Marines when they were assaulting Lee. I also like Adama's reaction to the bridge being seized, and the continuity that the show maintained (the Chief from Pegasus who took over after Tyrol resigned, the guy from Pegasus who doesn't like Helo, etc.

It was nice to see Lee in action again. Was also crazy hearing all of the automatic gunfire going through the hallways. Was cool seeing Tyrol helping out the Colonials after sounding like he was siding with the Cylons. Seeing Adama and Tigh kick ass was epic haha, they got those Marines good. And Adama killed his own crew eh? Isn't that the first time that he's killed someone other than a Cylon?

Roslin's speech to the fleet was really good, well until it was cut short. I was hoping that the episode would be wrapped up more at the end instead of a cliffhanger, but oh well it's kind of nice to have a cliffhanger again after a sort of slow start to this season.

But yeah all in all I'm really looking forward to next week's episode, this is a great storyline. And I liked Baltar a lot in this episode. They did a good job adding even more depth to him since New Caprica. I also loved Adama and Roslin making out hahahaha, that was quite random in front of everyone. At least they don't hide it anymore.

But dammit what a cliffhanger, I hate these. It seems extremely unlikely that no one will be harmed. Felix is a little crap disturber ruining everything.

I really hope next episode sees him with a bullet in the brains.

Next weeks episode looks really good. I doubt the people firing were shooting Adama though, probably someone else that they had lined up. My guess would be that one of the final five are executed, which could open up more understanding of their purpose.

I really like Adama's line to Felix haha, "Shove it up your ass".

It's so strange that the Cylon Basestar has become a refuge though. I bet that in the next episode the Viper attacking the Raptor will be intercepted by Raiders and owned.

im not sure i think theres some significance in the fact that they mentioned hot dog was out there as well maybe he'll take out the other guy out

Bruman
February 1st, 2009, 11:04 AM
I was really happy to see Laird again - really neat guy. And then so sad to see him get killed. I was crossing my fingers hoping that he'd just be knocked out, but I guess Zarek knew what he was doing.

Bruman
February 1st, 2009, 11:46 AM
I would be seriously bummed if Tigh were killed forever. I see three options:

1) Tigh really is killed (this IS Battlestar, after all). Major bummer!

2) Tigh is killed, but because he is a Cylon, somehow comes back later. I would be less bummed, but I don't really see this fitting, since final five don't resurect the same way as the other cylons. But maybe he'd have his eye back.

3) In the trailer, it's Tom Zarek saying that Tigh was killed trying to escape. It's unlikely that Tom actually saw this happen, so it's possible that someone helped Tigh escape and said that Tigh was killed so that there wouldn't be a search for him. Tom would be deceived and would be simply repeating the story as he knew it.

I'm hoping that #3 is true, because I would be sooo bummed to see the senior staff eliminated this way.

helio9
February 1st, 2009, 12:40 PM
Only if they all just stand there and do nothing. If they all break for cover while drawing their weapons, she has to let another have more time in order to shoot at one, plus she has to keep an eye on where Apollo is so she doesn't shoot him.

Again, after she took out the first guy it's still 4-1 and she's out in the open. On any show with quality action, Starbuck is dead. (*Or more likely somebody realizes this and the scene is done differently)
Her goal wasn't to kill them all, it was to get Lee out safely.The others were suppressed by their sense of self preservation. Sure, if they all went for their guns at the same time, Kara couldn't kill them all before she gets hit, but they know that the first one to react is dead. No one wants to be first, especially after she established her seriousness by shooting that guy.

I don't think it's that unrealistic.

the missing 7
February 1st, 2009, 01:24 PM
this is the best cliffhanger ever ....EVER

tricky
February 1st, 2009, 01:58 PM
I'm just wondering if the grenade thrown in was a real grenade, or a BSG flash-bang? Cause in my head, I'm seeing the teaser before the credits with Tigh tied up and ready to be spaced, and Gaeta rubbing it in his face that the tables have turned.

And Tigh regarding him with his good eye, pointing out that HE killed alot of good men today, not the Cylons. And that he would see him in hell.

Of course, that scene ends with Saul Tigh being spaced, Gaeta looking over to a beaten and bound Adama and saying, "You're next!" ,and then the credits.

but that's just how I would open the next episode. Mostly cause I want to see Tigh go down swinging, not blown up by some faceless marines grenade.

In the absence of this, I'm betting he jumped on the grenade, saving Adama.

helio9
February 1st, 2009, 02:46 PM
It looked like a 'real life' flashbang (http://www.21stcenturyairsoft.com/prodimages/lesslethal/cts/detail/7290_Flash_Bang.jpg), not a frag (http://www.big-ordnance.com/grenades/MK2NoHole.JPG).

Karnius
February 1st, 2009, 03:14 PM
Just read the last entry Blog of McCreary, music compositer of BSG,

And he has that to say about next week episode:

Believe it or not, The Oath is actually smaller and less action-packed than next week’s Blood on the Scales. This episode focuses on the conspiratorial factions at work in the shadows that lead eventually to full-scale combat. I knew I needed a musical approach that would capture the hurried, frantic energy of the episode, but that would also be adaptable into the epic cues necessary next week.

Enjoy your long week wait :P

Replicator Todd
February 1st, 2009, 03:22 PM
Just read the last entry Blog of McCreary, music compositer of BSG,

And he has that to say about next week episode:

Believe it or not, The Oath is actually smaller and less action-packed than next week’s Blood on the Scales. This episode focuses on the conspiratorial factions at work in the shadows that lead eventually to full-scale combat. I knew I needed a musical approach that would capture the hurried, frantic energy of the episode, but that would also be adaptable into the epic cues necessary next week.

Enjoy your long week wait :P
Its too long!!!

Espeon1962
February 1st, 2009, 05:53 PM
Its too bad Dualla was not alive as you know she would have been right beside the admiral - she would never have turned traitor.

It was interesting to see how rational Tyrol was during all this. Also, I wonder why none of the final four have spoken up about how old they are - given that they remember events that occurred thousands of years ago. Also, I am still wondering how Kara's id is going to be wrapped up, are we to conclude she is actually a cylon as well?

Zarek is the worst piece of trash, he is a rat, always having someone else do his dirty work when he can, but claiming all the glory when it is available for the taking.

Replicator Todd
February 1st, 2009, 06:27 PM
Zarek is the worst piece of trash, he is a rat, always having someone else do his dirty work when he can, but claiming all the glory when it is available for the taking.

I don't understand how Zarek isn't dead yet.

Detox
February 1st, 2009, 06:47 PM
there were a bunch of SG cameos in The Oath

on CiC, one of the women techs ducking for cover was in Hathor and was one of the women that helped Sam take back the base.

and there was at least a couple others that i can't recall at the moment

You can tell that BSG is done in vancouver :D

And the Marines guarding Adama and Tigh? Rivers and Grodin.

fwupow
February 1st, 2009, 07:13 PM
Forget about Pythia!

This episode has it looking like Baltar's Inner SIX had it right all along.

From Season 2, epi "Home pt1"


"Baltar's Inner #6: Gaius, you get yourself far, far too worked up about these things. Shh. They do have it easy, don't they?

Baltar: They? Why are you talking to me like I'm not one of them (humans)?

Baltar's Inner #6: In some ways you never were. You have a path, you will be spared their fate. For once, Gaius, you can stop manipulating the world and let destiny take its course. If there's one thing we know about human beings with certainty... they are masters of self destruction."


From Season 2, epi "Home pt2"


Baltar: Then who... or what... are you, exactly?

Baltars Inner #6: I'm an angel of god sent here to protect you. To guide you, to love you.

Baltar: To what end?

Baltar's Inner #6: To the end of the human race.

Lightbane
February 1st, 2009, 07:46 PM
I have a theory that will end the series, maybe because as was already stated how Gaeta will die in 4.18 that the rebellion takes a lot of loses when Adama et al takes the fleet back. That there is going to be ship losses somewhere in there, and the Cylons escape with the remaining fleet. Something happens like a beacon or some sort "the dying leader" comes in here. I think they took Roslin's cancer as the "dying" bit but... what if this "leader" gets injured in some way that is fatal, doesn't have to be immediatly fatal but is. Galactica still has nukes right?

This leader finds them a planet and this is the 'real' earth. The place the remanants of the 13th colony escaped too

Back40
February 1st, 2009, 07:53 PM
I have a theory that will end the series, maybe because as was already stated how Gaeta will die in 4.18 that the rebellion takes a lot of loses when Adama et al takes the fleet back. That there is going to be ship losses somewhere in there, and the Cylons escape with the remaining fleet. Something happens like a beacon or some sort "the dying leader" comes in here. I think they took Roslin's cancer as the "dying" bit but... what if this "leader" gets injured in some way that is fatal, doesn't have to be immediatly fatal but is. Galactica still has nukes right?

This leader finds them a planet and this is the 'real' earth. The place the remanants of the 13th colony escaped too

The prophecy states the leader suffers a "wasting illness", I'm not sure that injuries or wounds would qualify?

Lightbane
February 1st, 2009, 08:34 PM
Radiation poisoning is a wasting illness! hehe

fwupow
February 1st, 2009, 09:55 PM
It looked like a 'real life' flashbang (http://www.21stcenturyairsoft.com/prodimages/lesslethal/cts/detail/7290_Flash_Bang.jpg), not a frag (http://www.big-ordnance.com/grenades/MK2NoHole.JPG).

Here's a few screen caps:

http://i40.tinypic.com/3531gtc.jpg;http://i42.tinypic.com/15s2dfl.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/3091t06.jpg

It looks more like a flashbang. The bright flash seen through the crack in the doors would also support that assumption.

g.o.d
February 1st, 2009, 09:56 PM
The prophecy states the leader suffers a "wasting illness", I'm not sure that injuries or wounds would qualify?

cancer?

g.o.d
February 1st, 2009, 09:57 PM
Here's a few screen caps:

http://i40.tinypic.com/3531gtc.jpg;http://i42.tinypic.com/15s2dfl.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/3091t06.jpg

It looks more like a flashbang. The bright flash seen through the crack in the doors would also support that assumption.

it's a flashbang

Back40
February 1st, 2009, 11:12 PM
cancer?

Cancer definitely fits the bill as a "wasting illness".

Shan Bruce Lee
February 2nd, 2009, 12:25 AM
She's got cover, heavy metal toolbox within arm's reach. Mobile cover. She's taken out one before anyone even sees her, and it's funny how putting a bullet into a man's head and having his blood spatter all over your antagonists causes them to freeze. Then Skulls just flaps his lips and she doesn't even pause for breath before she puts a round in him. She obviously means business. And she has two weapons out. Now, are you gonna be the first person to open your mouth or make a sudden move and draw down fire? ;)

Open my mouth? No. You just shoot!

But as you pointed out, you wouldn't be the first one to open your mouth in that situation because the other guy had already done it. (which itself is bad writing)

All I'm saying is that if this were a show that took action scenes seriously it would've either played out totally different, or Starbuck would be dead.

At the very least she could've stayed behind the heavy metal toolboxes instead of making her out to be an untouchable character that can do anything.

BobBot
February 2nd, 2009, 01:28 AM
Its too bad Dualla was not alive as you know she would have been right beside the admiral - she would never have turned traitor.

I am still wondering how Kara's id is going to be wrapped up, are we to conclude she is actually a cylon as well?



I don't understand how Zarek isn't dead yet.

I'm glad Dualla isn't alive to see what has become of the crew of the Galactica, she'd suffered enough with the loss of the dream of Earth. If only Gaeta had had the courage to put a bullet in his own brain...

As for Kara; I reckon there might be some sort of resurrection technology on Earth that was still active and regenerated her, just like the Final Five survived the bombs. Wouldn't explain the Viper though.

But my idea is that on Earth, there was no distinction between human and cylon - cylon bodies and resurrection technology were developed to achieve immortality. In this regard, the Final Five are as different from the other 7 models as humans are, but all three races come from a common progenitor. So even humans have a latent capacity to resurrect, given the right technology.

I also think there is a 13th model who went a different route during the exodus from Earth - the 12 founded the colonies, while the 13th founded the 7 models on a new Cylon homeworld. He appointed himself The One True God and it is him that Angel Six talks to Gaius about. It wouldn't surprise me if Gaius himself takes some cylons and humans away to start a new resurrection-capable civilization with himself as God, and this civilisation goes on to attack the other human settlements - "All this has happened before and will happen again."

Zarek: remember on New Caprica when the centurion firing squad was going to execute him and some others? He hid behind Roslin! He survives because he hides, never puts himself in danger. Even now, he's got Gaeta in amongst the revolution while he sits danger-free on Colonial One...

fwupow
February 2nd, 2009, 08:30 AM
Well, your thinking, BobBot, runs along much the same lines as my theories of late.

One of the major loose ends which I hope get tied up as the series ends is: What exactly are these Gods or God that we keep hearing about? Are they supernatural spirit beings of great power or regular beings in control of superior technology or more highly evolved beings in control of superior technology?

You could theorize that the maelstrom Kara Thrace dropped into was a wormhole to Earth and that she was resurrected by some sort of Earth-proximate resurrection technology or you can bring in the God factor and say that she was uploaded before entering the wormhole by some sort of Almighty Divinity with universe spanning power.

The info which Gaius Baltar got from the Gina prisoner on Pegasus and then related to Admiral Cain was that the Cylons had resurrection technology on their homeworld but the range was limited, so they needed to build resurrection ships to keep the capability within range as they went out to wage war.

Unless you invoke divine intervention, it seems only reasonable that Kara Thrace was resurrected by some sort of Earth-based rebirth apparatus.

One other interesting thing to note about Kara in the latest episode is that she seems greatly invigorated by the civil war breakout, basically happy about it! The Admiral found her behavior troubling. Is there some sort of mysterious force, the same force that provoked the civil war on Earth 2000 years ago, still active on or near Earth that is provoking the current conflict in the fleet and is Kara really the "angel of death" working as an agent of that force?

tricky
February 2nd, 2009, 11:37 AM
Glad I'm not the only one to think about the flashbang; just too much light to be a frag.

Like I said, I just want Saul to have one more chance to be Saul.

As for Starbuck; whatever resurrection technique worked on her worked on her viper as well, so well that while no one could tell the difference between it's tech and normal vipers, but it and it alone detected the becon from the original viper that led them to Earth. Now that's the interesting part, from a sci-fi point of view.

Skydiver
February 2nd, 2009, 12:45 PM
they won't frag them, not only cause they want them alive, but is it really smart to use a frag grenade near an airlock???? or on a space ship in general?

notafanboy
February 2nd, 2009, 12:46 PM
[QUOTE=EvenstarSRV;9669253]It was interesting to see how much power Gaeta has always been able to wield by controlling the comms in the CIC. And I enjoyed seeing both Starbuck and Roslin really come back to life after the event on Earth. Didn't quite understand why Adama and Tigh had to stay in the hold after the Raptor had taken off, but their stand was cool to see.


Finally someone mentions that Adama and Tigh could have fit on the raptor! I have no idea why they needed to stay behind and take a stand, especially one that seems potentially unsuccessful, as they gave away the fact that they were there by shooting at the small crack in the door. The others wouldn't have known and would have likely been easy to pick off one by one as the door opened more. They would NOT have thrown in a grenade! Why would they if they don't know someone is there?


As far as Gaeta goes, I get the control thing over the coms, but why would anyone listen to him? He doesn't seem to have any other power. Just a thought.

Bruman
February 2nd, 2009, 12:55 PM
I agree... Gaeta seems like a nice guy (normally), but he doesn't strike me as someone with a whole lot of charisma. How he's the ringleader and can get others to follow him is a little beyond me, other than the fact that he might be the only guy who can do key stuff in CIC. That would make him a key figure in a mutiny, but not necessarily the military leader of it.

Maybe that issue will come back to haunt him. Once control has been established, a higher ranking mutineer (if there is one), may try to displace him.

Dwparsnip
February 2nd, 2009, 03:56 PM
Finally someone mentions that Adama and Tigh could have fit on the raptor! I have no idea why they needed to stay behind and take a stand, especially one that seems potentially unsuccessful, as they gave away the fact that they were there by shooting at the small crack in the door. The others wouldn't have known and would have likely been easy to pick off one by one as the door opened more. They would NOT have thrown in a grenade! Why would they if they don't know someone is there?



Tigh- "You could have gone over with her, Bill."

Adama- "I couldn't have lived with it."

Someone else mentioned earlier in the thread (I think) that Adama wouldn't, and couldn't, live with himself if he left his ship in the hands of mutineers. This simple exchange confirms that in my mind. As for why not take and kill whoever came through the door, he probably still considers them his men, despite Starbuck's entreaty not to.

Plus I suspect that Adama is trying to make a point, that he won't give up his ship, and perhaps those in the mutiny who are on the fence so to speak, might realize that and come to their senses.

apollo123
February 2nd, 2009, 04:38 PM
I'm glad Dualla isn't alive to see what has become of the crew of the Galactica, she'd suffered enough with the loss of the dream of Earth. If only Gaeta had had the courage to put a bullet in his own brain...


I'm sorry, I liked Dualla and her death was very sad, but I wouldn't call what she did courageous. It was hopelessness that made her put a bullet in her brain, not courage.

Gaeta is being foolish, arrogant and misguided, but I wouldn't call him a coward. He truly believes that Adama is wrong, that the Cylons are evil and that staging a mutiny is the only way to save the human race. If he had put a bullet through his head knowing that he could've something about it, that would've been the coward's way out. However wrong and stupid you think he is, you gotta give the guy credit for standing up for what he believes in and facing possible death, disgrace and zero redemption.

BobBot
February 2nd, 2009, 05:02 PM
[QUOTE=EvenstarSRV;9669253]
As far as Gaeta goes, I get the control thing over the coms, but why would anyone listen to him? He doesn't seem to have any other power. Just a thought.[/COLOR]

He relays orders, people listen to the CIC and don't question the orders that are issued. It's a position of trust, but it's also a weak link.


I'm sorry, I liked Dualla and her death was very sad, but I wouldn't call what she did courageous. It was hopelessness that made her put a bullet in her brain, not courage.

Gaeta is being foolish, arrogant and misguided, but I wouldn't call him a coward. He truly believes that Adama is wrong, that the Cylons are evil and that staging a mutiny is the only way to save the human race. If he had put a bullet through his head knowing that he could've something about it, that would've been the coward's way out. However wrong and stupid you think he is, you gotta give the guy credit for standing up for what he believes in and facing possible death, disgrace and zero redemption.

I don't think Dualla was courageous, but Gaeta would have been. Certainly more courageous than his actual actions were. Their motivations were different. I would respect Gaeta making a stand if it was just his own neck on the line, but he's started a civil war that is costing many lives. He had other options, but he chose to go to Zarek, he chose to lead others to their deaths. They could have mutineed by downing tools and refusing to work. They could have used political means. They could have split the fleet. Baltar has shown deep remorse for his actions, but he never deliberately killed a human - Gaeta on the other hand, he no redeeming qualities.

entil2001
February 2nd, 2009, 06:15 PM
The events of this episode were a long time coming. Tensions between the military and civilian government have been present since the very beginning, and it was only the slow and steady relationship between Adama and Roslin that brought about any sense of stability and cooperation. But the loss of hope and the death of dreams has been too much to bear.

After so much time, it's hard not to feel like we should be on Adama's side in the conflict. We feel as though Adama and Roslin are the victims of unwarranted betrayal at the worst possible moment. We don't want to see them fall, and we certainly don't want it to be during a revolt. Yet it's hard not to recognize that Gaeta and Zarek have a point. Adama has changed considerably over the course of the series, and he is not the same man that inspired steadfast confidence and loyalty.

It also doesn't help that Roslin has been hiding ever since the discovery of radioactive Earth. It feeds into the growing consensus that Adam and Roslin were appeasing the masses with false hope. Despite the lingering resentments of the Pegasus crew and those left behind on New Caprica, right down to those still wanting Baltar's head on a pike, the fleet was willing to hold it together. Earth broke that fragile peace. Adama's decision to keep Tigh as his XO and forge an alliance with the Cylons is just the most convenient trigger.

Even so, the arguments of the revolution are flawed and contradictory. It's not about the rights of the civilian fleet. If it was, the revolution would have been a lot less violent. It's about anger, hatred, and bitterness, fueled by ignorance. It's about payback for perceived wrongs. Otherwise, the man who wanted to rape Athena wouldn't be looking for another shot. People wouldn't be trying to shoot Lee for defending Baltar during the trial. Even Gaeta's motivations are caught between reasoned opposition and personal vendetta.

More to the point, too many people are claming (and believing) that Adama and Roslin knew the truth about Earth. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize why that makes no sense. If they knew that Earth wasn't a sanctuary, and they were using Earth as a carrot to dangle in front of the Colonials to maintain their control, why would they ever let the fleet get close to Earth?

And even those who know better seem to be reacting to Tigh, Anders, and Tyrol as though they were behind the attack on the Colonies. How ironic is it that the revolution is led by someone who undermined the resistance on New Caprica by giving names to the enemy (as seen in the "Face of the Enemy" webisodes), while he rails against the continued trust in Cylons who were the leaders of the resistance?

Even Lee seems to miss that crucial point. While there's no denying that the Cylons nearly wiped out humanity, and that it was only a few short years earlier, it's also clear that the Final Five are not the same as the more familiar enemy. Even the rebel Cylons aren't quite sure how they fit into the equation. So why does everyone assume that the Final Five betrayed humanity? Lee, the one who took the first step towards the alliance with D'Anna, is apparently just as susceptible to this lack of reason as most.

Roslin and Adama are looking at the big picture, and perhaps there is some measure of arrogance in their sureness of purpose as well. They still believe they know what's best for everyone. It just so happens that they may be right, even if they don't truly understand why. The mystery surrounding Starbuck and the purpose of the Final Five will no doubt vindicate Adama and Roslin's confidence that an alliance with the rebel Cylons is the best course for Humanity. It may be too late for some, but the mystery wouldn't exist at this stage of the game if it wasn't significant to the resolution of the series.

All that said, this conflict was inevitable, and with so much left unsaid over the years, it was always going to be bloody and brutal. No matter how justified the hate and the anger, however, this is the turning point. As Adama said at the beginning of the series, Humanity needs to prove that it is worthy of survival. The writers, even in the midst of chaos, leave the matter open to debate. Does survival mean resistance to the Cylons at any cost, or does it mean transcending hatred and fear and forging a new path?

The overwhelming power of this episode is how well these concepts shine through, even as the focus remains on the mutiny and the bloodshed. Not a moment of this episode is wasted, and several characters shine. Gaeta gets his moment as the mastermind of the coup in CIC, Adama and Tigh have never been so hardcore, Roslin returns to form with her appeal to the fleet, and even Baltar displays a rare sense of decency.

More than just the best episode of the season, it ranks among the best of the series. And with seven episodes left, the ride is far from over.

John Keegan
Reprinted with permission
Original source: c. Critical Myth, 2009
All rights reserved
Link: http://www.criticalmyth.com

EvenstarSRV
February 2nd, 2009, 06:51 PM
At the very least she could've stayed behind the heavy metal toolboxes instead of making her out to be an untouchable character that can do anything.

I'm inclined to think that after essentially coming back from the dead, Starbuck probably does think she's a bit untouchable. That combined with her normal cocky attitude, and I think she would much rather face down her enemy head on instead of hiding behind cover. It's probably not the most tactically sound thing to do, but it's definitely a Starbuck-type thing for her to do, IMO.


I agree... Gaeta seems like a nice guy (normally), but he doesn't strike me as someone with a whole lot of charisma. How he's the ringleader and can get others to follow him is a little beyond me, other than the fact that he might be the only guy who can do key stuff in CIC. That would make him a key figure in a mutiny, but not necessarily the military leader of it.

Maybe that issue will come back to haunt him. Once control has been established, a higher ranking mutineer (if there is one), may try to displace him.

I think so too. Gaeta was needed to engineer the mutiny by putting the pieces in place and manipulating Adama and Tigh. But now that the coup has occurred, Gaeta's not really needed anymore and could be pushed out by someone more ruthless.


Tigh- "You could have gone over with her, Bill."

Adama- "I couldn't have lived with it."

Someone else mentioned earlier in the thread (I think) that Adama wouldn't, and couldn't, live with himself if he left his ship in the hands of mutineers. This simple exchange confirms that in my mind. As for why not take and kill whoever came through the door, he probably still considers them his men, despite Starbuck's entreaty not to.

Plus I suspect that Adama is trying to make a point, that he won't give up his ship, and perhaps those in the mutiny who are on the fence so to speak, might realize that and come to their senses.

I agree that Adama wouldn't have abandoned his ship, but I was wondering why he didn't follow Lee and Starbuck out the side hatch from that hanger. He wanted to stay to make sure the Raptor took off, but once it did it seemed like he had time to escape with Lee and the others. But that's a minor quibble, because seeing his and Tigh's stand was well worth it. :)

Replicator Todd
February 2nd, 2009, 07:00 PM
I think so too. Gaeta was needed to engineer the mutiny by putting the pieces in place and manipulating Adama and Tigh. But now that the coup has occurred, Gaeta's not really needed anymore and could be pushed out by someone more ruthless.





I'm imaging Zarek will have something to do Gaeta's downfall, he sure is in trouble now!

GateTrek2004
February 2nd, 2009, 08:13 PM
I think so too. Gaeta was needed to engineer the mutiny by putting the pieces in place and manipulating Adama and Tigh. But now that the coup has occurred, Gaeta's not really needed anymore and could be pushed out by someone more ruthless.

It wouldn't surprise me if Zarek decided to kill him, but i've read around that Gaeta survives to at least 4.18, don;t know who said that or if its true or not

apollo123
February 2nd, 2009, 10:04 PM
[QUOTE=notafanboy;9683755]
I don't think Dualla was courageous, but Gaeta would have been. Certainly more courageous than his actual actions were. Their motivations were different. I would respect Gaeta making a stand if it was just his own neck on the line, but he's started a civil war that is costing many lives. He had other options, but he chose to go to Zarek, he chose to lead others to their deaths. They could have mutineed by downing tools and refusing to work. They could have used political means. They could have split the fleet. Baltar has shown deep remorse for his actions, but he never deliberately killed a human - Gaeta on the other hand, he no redeeming qualities.

Again, not more courageous, just more preferable. Anyways, yes what he's doing is stupid, I agree.

Corona
February 2nd, 2009, 10:12 PM
Is there anyone who didn't want to kill that guy for gloating how they were going to rape Athena? I mean, really! That was a powerful scene, especially with Helo beat down.

Mongoletsi
February 3rd, 2009, 03:35 AM
Is there anyone who didn't want to kill that guy for gloating how they were going to rape Athena? I mean, really! That was a powerful scene, especially with Helo beat down.

She was raped in Razor, but thankfully the scenes were cut.

g.o.d
February 3rd, 2009, 06:36 AM
I'm imaging Zarek will have something to do Gaeta's downfall, he sure is in trouble now!

two words: Romo Lampkin

Mongoletsi
February 3rd, 2009, 07:53 AM
I reckon Romo actually has more integrity than we may give him credit for, and will come out on whichever side Lee Adama is on.

GateTrek2004
February 3rd, 2009, 08:17 AM
She was raped in Razor, but thankfully the scenes were cut.

even with the unrated edition they came out with, she almost got raped, but did not!

Skydiver
February 3rd, 2009, 09:47 AM
isn't it notable that the humans behave less humanely than the machines they built?

Cathara
February 3rd, 2009, 10:31 AM
Very powerful episode - as so many others have commented. Just a few musings…

Does anyone recall if way back when Adama removed Roslin from office, after she sent Kara back to Caprica for the arrow, that whole situation, was that a bloodless coup?

The reason I ask is this – obviously there a came a point in the series that all was forgiven and the characters moved on together.

Over and over again, all has been forgiven. Something Apollo highlighted so well in his defense of Baltar. The Pegasus crew, the possible collaborators from New Caprica, and now recently, even the rebel Cylons themselves.

I think perhaps the reason for Adama’s statement of no forgiveness for this time, stems from the fact that these people are flat out betraying their own. (I know they don’t see it that way, but!) These rebels are killing anyone – military or civilian – that gets in their way in this grab for power.

The Pegasus crew could be said to be “following orders” – the whole New Caprica situation was it’s own complete mess of shades of gray – and the rebel Cylons – they were an enemy and never pretended to be anything but. They have – for the moment – thrown their lot in with the Colonials – but it wasn’t as if the original attack on the colonies betrayed a trust. It was an act of war. Abhorrent, yes. Ultimately however, wars end, one way or another, and often with truces being drawn. Uneasy truces, perhaps, but things move on.

These rebels fought and bled and suffered alongside their crewmates for all the long years since the original attacks. And now this? Whatever the reasoning – it is a betrayal that must cut very, very deep to Adama and to the other characters not part of the coup. Apollo’s shocked “I flew with some of them!” tells part of that feeling. Adama’s rage in the CIC speaks to it as well.

If these rebels have openly betrayed their own once – what is to stop them from doing so again – thus the no forgiveness, no clemency tactic being justified in Adama’s mind.

All of this is just me reasoning things out in my own way – not to say I’m right about any of it. J

As to the other elements of the episode:

Loved seeing Starbuck kick a$# again – she has a definite flair for it!

Loved seeing more of what I call the “real” Baltar returning! I am really interested to see how his knowledge of Gaeta’s duplicity on New Caprica plays out.

Seelix is a bitter witch. “I just can’t let it go…” Whatever. People like her are the reason restraining orders were invented.
The cylons in the brig – the bruises/cuts on Six’s face and the threat’s of the Pegasus crewman were very disturbing. I can’t think of many things worse than raping/beating a pregnant woman – or a mother while her young child is watching. Ugh. It is very possible that either Anders or Helo could die trying to prevent that from happening – but you never know with how things turn on a dime in this show…

Zarek – oh he is evil. Totally, totally out for number 1 all the way. And in love with his own self-image. Great calls by other posters on Zarek wanting someone else to do his dirty work. Although his murder of the deck chief shows he can do his own killing if he feels the situation calls for it.

I hope both Zarek and Gaeta get their just desserts – and soon. But before they “go” I would like to see Gaeta’s secrets revealed and Zarek’s hero image in the fleet demolished – and for him to know it too. As Adama so correctly pointed out on the last episode, Zarek wouldn’t mind dying if he could go as a martyr to his cause.

Roslin – If anything is guaranteed to shake Roslin completely out of her “funk” and get her back in action kickin’ and a-screamin’ – it is to threaten the man she loves. The question is, do events push her over the edge? Or does she stay in control?

The cylons on the basestar – my vote is that Tory prompts nastiness and yet another turn of allegiance – I don’t trust her! She is just trouble! I could be way off – but that is my guess…

As always, I’m not sure where next week’s episode will take us – but boy am I excited to go along for the ride!!!

ha'tak_
February 3rd, 2009, 12:07 PM
I must say I´m not liking the direction that the new series is taking, the episode self was good but having a mutiny don´t like that I would like to see in the next episodes is some attack on th cylons

Replicator Todd
February 3rd, 2009, 01:46 PM
Well with the Galactica full of Cylon-haters an attack may be very soon, there is a Cylon Star in the fleet!

Matt G
February 3rd, 2009, 03:05 PM
1. Geata is a bleep!

2. Forgot about those Pegasus bleeps!

3. Nice work Starbuck.

4. What the hell are you on with that rant Lee, Tigh had frack all to do with the Colonies getting toasted!

Overall, the rebellion is down to a load of people losing the plot. Will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

EvenstarSRV
February 3rd, 2009, 03:09 PM
isn't it notable that the humans behave less humanely than the machines they built?

Could it be because of their original programming? The humans may have programmed the cylons to not have what could be seen as human flaws, make them more logical and less influenced by emotions, and in doing so made them more 'humane' than their creators.

But then the cylons want to become more human, and if pushed to it they seem to be able to overcome their 'humane' programming at times, like when I think Athena shot that Six she thought was trying to take Hera from her.

Mongoletsi
February 3rd, 2009, 03:23 PM
... I would like to see in the next episodes is some attack on th cylons

Why? The Cylons seem - at the moment especially - to be intent on working with the Humans to try and deal with the whole situation.

Skydiver
February 3rd, 2009, 04:14 PM
there's one thing to shoot one of your own in defense of something else....its' another to brutalize someone in the name of revenge

akuma07
February 4th, 2009, 02:09 AM
How do you think Galatica will be taken back?

I really hope the loyal crew storm it with Centurion support!

Mongoletsi
February 4th, 2009, 02:48 AM
Centurions retaking Galactica would be a disaster. It's not really going to go down well with the Cylon-haters (most of the Fleet) is it? Sure, it might look cool and might succeed; in the long-term it would come back to bite Rosadama on the ass!

HorizonSurfer
February 4th, 2009, 04:43 AM
I was wondering why they didn't touch on the fact that Geata was deceiving his lover the whole time, and had him taken away to the brig without much more than a glance between them.

ToasterOnFire
February 4th, 2009, 05:40 AM
I'm predicting that the rebellion will be settled by either Roslin and the basestar putting the smackdown, Cavil et al popping up to say hi, or by the people in the fleet actively deciding that they'd rather have Roslin and Adama over Zarek and the rebellion. I think that the latter is least likely, especially since RDM has gone to such lengths to cast democracy in a negative light (the constant fickleness of the quorum, etc).

I really need to watch the webisodes, I have a feeling I've missed a lot of the nuances with Gaeta and those that are rebelling. Racetrack at least looked shocked by what was going to happen to Lee. Seelix had no such response to Anders getting the crap kicked out of him. Yikes.

Vis Uban
February 4th, 2009, 01:26 PM
I'm predicting that the rebellion will be settled by either Roslin and the basestar putting the smackdown, Cavil et al popping up to say hi, or by the people in the fleet actively deciding that they'd rather have Roslin and Adama over Zarek and the rebellion. I think that the latter is least likely, especially since RDM has gone to such lengths to cast democracy in a negative light (the constant fickleness of the quorum, etc).

I really need to watch the webisodes, I have a feeling I've missed a lot of the nuances with Gaeta and those that are rebelling. Racetrack at least looked shocked by what was going to happen to Lee. Seelix had no such response to Anders getting the crap kicked out of him. Yikes.

I'd guess it'll end with some combination of options one and three; unless they do something completely out of left field that I'll never see coming, that is. The baseship will probably be used to threaten the rebels, especially since Gaeta can't access the ship's nuclear weapons and Galactica's in shambles. Also based on the response to the President's interrupted speech, the fleet might just support the Rosalin/Adama leadership after they learn more about Zarek and Gaeta.

I suppose I should get around to watching the webisodes myself... As for the character responses, Lee was Racetrack's superior for a long time, and she probably didn't see the need to kill him. As for the creepy, stalker lady named Seelix...well those adjectives are actually more than enough to explain her behavior. She's definitely a few fries short of a Happy Meal.

RepairmanJack
February 4th, 2009, 01:56 PM
Sorry if someone has brought this up already. Has anyone noticed that this episode has the *slight* feel of that hack movie "Space Mutiny"???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McgzrE6_LnA&feature=related

That movies used original BSG footage and was about the chief engineer (who walked with a cane due to a bum leg) and the security chief trying to take over the ship. The mutiny is defeated by the ships hot dog pilot and the daughter of the captain.

Watching Gaeta limping around reminded of it...

Back40
February 4th, 2009, 06:13 PM
I was wondering why they didn't touch on the fact that Geata was deceiving his lover the whole time, and had him taken away to the brig without much more than a glance between them.

Because the storyline between Hoshi and Gaeta didn't evolve until the webisodes and the webisodes were shot after the series finale. It was an after-thought, in other words.

HorizonSurfer
February 4th, 2009, 07:17 PM
Because the storyline between Hoshi and Gaeta didn't evolve until the webisodes and the webisodes were shot after the series finale. It was an after-thought, in other words.That's very strange. I don't mean the sequence things were shot, but the events in the weisodes explain Gaeta's "change". Without them it all really comes out of the blue, at least to me anyway. It would seem to be a too much of an intrinsic part of the story we've seen so far this last half season to be an afterthought.

apollo123
February 5th, 2009, 10:08 AM
That's very strange. I don't mean the sequence things were shot, but the events in the weisodes explain Gaeta's "change". Without them it all really comes out of the blue, at least to me anyway. It would seem to be a too much of an intrinsic part of the story we've seen so far this last half season to be an afterthought.

His relationship with the Eight was important in his transformation, but his relationship with Hoshi was more of afterthought. Actually, if you listened to the webisode commentary, the original plan was to use Narcho not Hoshi as Gaeta's boyfriend. The actor who played Narcho was unavailable, so they used Hoshi instead. That might've made a little more sense in the context of these few episodes. Though Gaeta going off the deep end and betraying both his admiral and the man he loves does make for better drama.

Detox
February 5th, 2009, 04:19 PM
Who wants to bet that Hotdog shoots down the viper sent to blow up Roslin's raptor?

Back40
February 5th, 2009, 04:29 PM
Who wants to bet that Hotdog shoots down the viper sent to blow up Roslin's raptor?

I wouldn't bet against you on that one....I'm thinking along the same lines.

Cloud
February 6th, 2009, 09:41 AM
Am I the only one in favour of Gaeta and his rebellion?

I've always liked Gaeta. Poor guy has been through a lot. Star Buck owes him an apology trying to make him beg in the airlock bay. He's lost his leg, he's lost his hope, and his Admiral broke the law by illegally arresting the vice president. And the Second in Command is cylon.

Hypocrisy is:
Adama has forgiven everyone else for everything that they've done. Even Baltar got off scott free. Gaeta should be forgiven. He's done everything that was asked of him and has gotten frakked in return (lost a leg). And Star Buck better not flip out at Gaeta because her husband was the one who pulled the trigger.

I'm curious: what oath does the title of this episode refer to? Gaeta broke his oath to Adaman by mutiny. But Adama broke his oath to the colonies by illegally arresting the vice president and running a virtual dictatorship -- remember the descussion they had in CiC when Gaeta pointed out that the colonial ships refusing to be boarded by cylons were doing nothing wrong? Adama replied that it was a military decision, Gaeta asked who gets to make that decision (you?) and Adama said yes (Adama was wrong).

So really, the rebellion is legal.

Cloud

Flyboy
February 6th, 2009, 09:48 AM
Am I the only one in favour of Gaeta and his rebellion?

I've always liked Gaeta. Poor guy has been through a lot. Star Buck owes him an apology trying to make him beg in the airlock bay. He's lost his leg, he's lost his hope, and his Admiral broke the law by illegally arresting the vice president. And the Second in Command is cylon.

Hypocrisy is:
Adama has forgiven everyone else for everything that they've done. Even Baltar got off scott free. Gaeta should be forgiven. He's done everything that was asked of him and has gotten frakked in return (lost a leg). And Star Buck better not flip out at Gaeta because her husband was the one who pulled the trigger.

I'm curious: what oath does the title of this episode refer to? Gaeta broke his oath to Adaman by mutiny. But Adama broke his oath to the colonies by illegally arresting the vice president and running a virtual dictatorship -- remember the descussion they had in CiC when Gaeta pointed out that the colonial ships refusing to be boarded by cylons were doing nothing wrong? Adama replied that it was a military decision, Gaeta asked who gets to make that decision (you?) and Adama said yes (Adama was wrong).

So really, the rebellion is legal.

Cloud
Erm... no. The Rebellion was not legal. Not in any way shape nor form. The alliance with cylons is legal. The final four have been given amnesty - legal. Yes, Adama acted inappropriatly with regards to the ships policies on cylons, but that does not mean that mutiny, or indeed any form of a coup d'etate is legal.

boeli
February 6th, 2009, 11:10 AM
if they reallly had teh best intentions they wouldnt have killed that crewman larry or something and they wouldnt have tried to shoot Lee they would simply have taken him prisoner.
arresting zarek was ( in my oppinion) legal as he ordered a ship vital to the survival of the fleet to rebel, kill two marines and a cylon and then jump away with all their fuel.
i belief that cain once said that military prioritys outrank civilian once or something like that dont you think that jumping further while preserving fuel is a military priority

just my thoughts and i apolpogise if there are any spelling mistakes in advance

Flyboy
February 6th, 2009, 11:22 AM
if they reallly had teh best intentions they wouldnt have killed that crewman larry or something and they wouldnt have tried to shoot Lee they would simply have taken him prisoner.
arresting zarek was ( in my oppinion) legal as he ordered a ship vital to the survival of the fleet to rebel, kill two marines and a cylon and then jump away with all their fuel.
i belief that cain once said that military prioritys outrank civilian once or something like that dont you think that jumping further while preserving fuel is a military priority

just my thoughts and i apolpogise if there are any spelling mistakes in advance
The military is a tool of policy, and as such, must always rest at the hands of the political leadership, and should not be able to make policy decisions on their own, a military decision that a civilian leader should have no part in, is in strategic or tactical decisions, but the Objective that the strategy is set to achieve should be set out by a civilian authority.

jaredh
February 6th, 2009, 12:52 PM
The military is a tool of policy, and as such, must always rest at the hands of the political leadership, and should not be able to make policy decisions on their own, a military decision that a civilian leader should have no part in, is in strategic or tactical decisions, but the Objective that the strategy is set to achieve should be set out by a civilian authority.

I don't get these types of comments in the context of the show. Put yourself in their position. To be honest, the government should have been abolished a long time ago. All it does is server to slow down decision making for a group of people who need to be as agile as they can be. A representative body for extremely key decisions (like, we are going to colonized this planet, not that one) is really the only useful purpose to have any type of government.

ALL the decisions on where they go, who gets fuel, who gets repairs, etc should be carried out exclusively by the people who keep them alive...and that's the military.

The people on those little ships may not like it, but I bet they would like seeing the big military ship jump off leaving them behind even worse....and that is exactly where they are pushing them to.

It is rapidly approaching "every man for himself" standing and who says Zarak isn't about to jump on galactica and say "to hell" with all the other ships? He'll keep the ones required to keep Galactica going and go. In that type of situation, I'm not sure why they haven't done it already, honesty.

Adama has been pacifying them for quite some time. They really hit an every man for themself standing when the cylons found them on New Caprica. They really should have reorganzied the fleet from a ship perspective long ago, reducing the number of ships down to a much smaller level, scraping the rest of them for parts. It is what Cain did, and yes, when she did it was a horrible act.

The fact of the matter is, if any of them are going to survive at all, they need to get their act together, drop kick anybody that doesn't want to march in line (seems like the vast majority of them) and get on their way.

Flyboy
February 6th, 2009, 02:35 PM
I don't get these types of comments in the context of the show. Put yourself in their position. To be honest, the government should have been abolished a long time ago. All it does is server to slow down decision making for a group of people who need to be as agile as they can be. A representative body for extremely key decisions (like, we are going to colonized this planet, not that one) is really the only useful purpose to have any type of government.

ALL the decisions on where they go, who gets fuel, who gets repairs, etc should be carried out exclusively by the people who keep them alive...and that's the military.

The people on those little ships may not like it, but I bet they would like seeing the big military ship jump off leaving them behind even worse....and that is exactly where they are pushing them to.

It is rapidly approaching "every man for himself" standing and who says Zarak isn't about to jump on galactica and say "to hell" with all the other ships? He'll keep the ones required to keep Galactica going and go. In that type of situation, I'm not sure why they haven't done it already, honesty.

Adama has been pacifying them for quite some time. They really hit an every man for themself standing when the cylons found them on New Caprica. They really should have reorganzied the fleet from a ship perspective long ago, reducing the number of ships down to a much smaller level, scraping the rest of them for parts. It is what Cain did, and yes, when she did it was a horrible act.

The fact of the matter is, if any of them are going to survive at all, they need to get their act together, drop kick anybody that doesn't want to march in line (seems like the vast majority of them) and get on their way.
Admiral Cain did exactly that. Look what happened to the Battlestar Pegasus.


The question is, what are they fighting to survive for? They're trying to live, not just to fight. If the only ships in the fleet were military, than fine. But unless every single civilian is drafted onto the Galactica and any concept of having some form of society is thrown away, a government MUST be in place. Adama's responsibility is security, keeping people alive, defending the fleet yes. But there is MORE to life than defence when that which you are defending is a society.

A military commander without a civilian behind him declaring policy is a dangerous thing, and that way lies the authoritarian regimes that we see all over the Third World. Now don't get me wrong, I am (obviously) very pro-military. But I'm also a realist in the truest sense of the word. And sure, Adama could have his military dictatorship, and it might be more efficient, but at what cost. Do you know why in the real world more and more 'Orwellian' Anti-Terrorism legisilation keeps springing up? Because in an autocratic society it would be entirely possibly to stamp out terrorism. Tighter control means increased security. But that is unacceptable. There comes a point when society's values can't be cast aside. I personally believe our Governments in reality know when to stop - but would they in BSG? Despite Adama's good intentions?

It's not enough to simply survive. The civilians have to live.

Bruman
February 6th, 2009, 03:57 PM
I'm excited about the continuation of Battlestar tonight.

Regarding what "The Oath" refers to, I interpreted the oath to mean the oath that officers swear upon receiving their commission. Adama shouts "You swore an oath!" when Gaeta takes control. And Gaeta says that his mutiny is justified because Adama was untrue to the very same oath. So that's what the oath is about. Military officers tend to take oaths like that seriously, since it is connected to soldierly honor, which is a big thing in the military, because it is part of how the military separates killing in war from murder during peace.

Civilian participation is both good and useful for the military. When civilians are on board, the military doesn't need to expend resources policing them. And Adama himself generally wants to have a functioning government, he just hates the thought of Zarek being in control.

And, although I want Adama and Rosslyn to stay in power personally, I don't think Zarek is really just out for himself. Maybe he is, but it's not at all clear. Zarek makes a lot of valid points. Throughout the entire series, Rosslyn has never been elected President. She became president by being 40-something in the line of succession. She lost an election to Baltar. She became President again by appointment-then-resignation by Zarek after New Caprica, and even that was because Zarek realized that Adama would not support Zarek as presidency. In "Collaborators," Adama says "your presidency is a joke," after the secret trials are traced to his authorization.

And even in this rebellion, Zarek is the legitimate President (with Rosslyn incapacitated/not present). He WAS actually elected on Baltar's ticket, and was Rosslyn's vice-president after New Caprica. When Zarek said "I'm running the government," Adama replied "For now...," essentially threatening a coup d'etat - something he has done before. Last time Rosslyn was out of the picture, Lee was pushed to the presidency in order to bypass Zarek. So basically the civilian authority is threatened with a coup d'etat from the military and decides to pre-empt it by supporting a mutiny led by junior officers.

These things generally end badly, because even if the junior officers take control, they typically don't trust the civilian authority afterwards.

Bruman
February 6th, 2009, 06:21 PM
OK, I changed my mind about Zarek. OMFG!

huntress
February 7th, 2009, 04:15 AM
God that was goooooood. Television doesn't get much better then this. I could really cry that the show is almost over. BSG is REALLY the best thing on television.
<mod snip....please talk about eps 414 in the appropriate thread, thanks >

ROCK ON GALACTICA! YOU ARE THE BEST!

Flyboy
February 7th, 2009, 10:30 AM
Whoa whoa whoa whoa!

Spoilers!

Cloud
February 9th, 2009, 09:29 AM
Yet another reason to thank Gaeta: if he didn't decide to stage a coup then Tyrol wouldn't have gone down to the FTL drive and noticed the Fractures. Yup, Gaeta saved them all :)

Pharaoh Atem
March 2nd, 2009, 02:34 AM
best ep of the series IMO next to exodus and it's about time the old starbuck came back :D

it's great to see have dark feelix has become with dee's death earth and his leg he's truly gone to the edge

the cliffhanger was great adama and saul in the same room willing to fight to retake the ship who would have thought that after "revelations" >??

AresLover452
October 26th, 2009, 11:40 AM
I loved the OATH because R/A had THAT kiss!!! SMOKING!!!!

Then yes we got to see our OLD Starbuck come back to rid Galactica of the rats that infested the ship.

Morganrone93
May 13th, 2010, 11:32 AM
GAETA, I am coming for you! I WILL unleash hell upon you, you frakker!

AresLover452
May 24th, 2010, 10:42 PM
This whole final half of the season was just one roller coaster of a ride!!

Gamma626
September 12th, 2010, 03:58 PM
This was one of the best episodes of the 4th season, and yes... the series.

TBA
September 13th, 2010, 07:22 AM
This was one of the best episodes of the 4th season, and yes... the series.

Thought you'd enjoy it :) The beginning of season 4 was indeed rather show, but it was also a huge buildup to two outstanding episodes. Wondering what your favourite episodes & characters will be at the end of the series :)

Gamma626
September 13th, 2010, 10:42 AM
I finished last night. I'll post a good description when I get home from work later today.

Alterus
May 1st, 2015, 07:53 AM
Am I the only one in favour of Gaeta and his rebellion?

I've always liked Gaeta. Poor guy has been through a lot. Star Buck owes him an apology trying to make him beg in the airlock bay. He's lost his leg, he's lost his hope, and his Admiral broke the law by illegally arresting the vice president. And the Second in Command is cylon.

Hypocrisy is:
Adama has forgiven everyone else for everything that they've done. Even Baltar got off scott free. Gaeta should be forgiven. He's done everything that was asked of him and has gotten frakked in return (lost a leg). And Star Buck better not flip out at Gaeta because her husband was the one who pulled the trigger.

I'm curious: what oath does the title of this episode refer to? Gaeta broke his oath to Adaman by mutiny. But Adama broke his oath to the colonies by illegally arresting the vice president and running a virtual dictatorship -- remember the descussion they had in CiC when Gaeta pointed out that the colonial ships refusing to be boarded by cylons were doing nothing wrong? Adama replied that it was a military decision, Gaeta asked who gets to make that decision (you?) and Adama said yes (Adama was wrong).

So really, the rebellion is legal.

Cloud

No Adama isn't wrong, is it a military descision to use the FTLs, yes who calculates the jumps every time and who are constantly used to repair those drives, are right... Now tell me FTLs aren't a military decision
And Baltar wasn't forgiven he was found not guilty by a legal trial of his peers, Adama didn't illegally arrest Zarek, he was clearly inciting a mutiny which caused the deaths of two marines and a foreign national

Rick314
September 19th, 2018, 10:59 AM
At time 33:30 of "The Oath", Baltar's secret "Monochrome Wireless Transmitter" is shown being used by President Roslin to address the fleet after rebels have taken control of communications. It looked familiar. It is a circa-1970 Hewlett-Packard 3555B Transmission & Noise Measuring Set with its front panel label replaced.