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GateWorld
January 10th, 2009, 09:07 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/4121.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">BATTLESTAR GALACTICA SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE DISQUIET THAT FOLLOWS MY SOUL</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 412</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
To move the survivors forward Adama proposes a more long-term alliance with the Cylon rebels. But Tom Zarek and the Quorum disagree, leading to a stand-off with the fleet left hanging in the balance. Tyrol learns a disturbing truth about his son.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s4/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

g.o.d
January 17th, 2009, 04:22 AM
ultra high promoshots can be found here (http://www.bsg.cz/412-disquiet-follows-my-soul-promofotky-17)

trailer is here (http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=943922)

and finally very short description


Adama believes that Cylon technology will lead to a habitable space, but his proposal for an alliance is met by fierce resistance.

g.o.d
January 18th, 2009, 01:34 AM
Canadian Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMCQj8g3nrQ)

Platschu
January 18th, 2009, 12:52 PM
It seems they re-begin a new BSG era and the whole Final Five storyline will be postponed... :o

g.o.d
January 18th, 2009, 09:33 PM
It seems they re-begin a new BSG era and the whole Final Five storyline will be postponed... :o

don't worry

given the fact Ellen will be in 7 of 9 remaining episodes, they won't postpone it

Wayston
January 18th, 2009, 10:41 PM
hopefully it'll get postponed until next season :p

Platschu
January 19th, 2009, 04:54 AM
But I miss Lucy Lawless! :( :p

SGFerrit
January 19th, 2009, 06:19 AM
Tigh and Caprica are holding hands while they look at the sonogram.

Ellen isn't going to be very happy!:P

daniel9
January 19th, 2009, 09:55 AM
i wonder if baltar will care at all that his caprica six is doing tigh?

g.o.d
January 19th, 2009, 10:30 AM
But I miss Lucy Lawless! :( :p

I never liked D'anna. Heck, I even wanted her to be thrown out of the airlock in 410. But when she was sitting on those ruins and she resigned on everything and only wanted to die there with her ancestors, it made me really sad. After 411, I will really miss her :(

thevarrior
January 21st, 2009, 09:48 AM
The Final Five storyline isn't being postponed. It's been DEALT WITH already. We know who the Five are and what they are. Now the story will discuss how they're relevant. Simple.

daniel9
January 23rd, 2009, 05:09 PM
wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee podcast is up
http://media.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/mp3/414/bsg_ep414_FULL.mp3

Skydiver
January 23rd, 2009, 07:01 PM
sooooo

Nick isn't chief's son
gaeta is a dweeb
zarek is gonna rebel
mom and dad are shagging (guess he wanted her to look 'flushed' again) ;)
tigh and Six are oddly creepy during the sonogram scene
that nurse is gonna join the rebellion, she was about to blow in the beginning

and my prediction....Roslyn isn't the 'dying leader', it's Adama

Next eps, all out civil war....will it last for 1 or 2 episodes before Cavil shows up and 'enemy of my enemy' is hte order of the day?

Arative
January 23rd, 2009, 07:05 PM
I didn't care much for this episode. Seems like it was setting things up for later in the season. Was laughing when Cottle and Tigh were smoking next to 6. Roslin/Adama shippers will be very happy. Felt it was too convenient to make Nikky a full human. Looks like its only Hera and Tigh's kid, which they referred to as he for the next generation.

L-S
January 23rd, 2009, 07:07 PM
Sounds a bit drab...

This was their first back after the writer's strike, according to the writers. Did it show?

Smashing Young Man
January 23rd, 2009, 07:12 PM
sooooo

Nick isn't chief's son
gaeta is a dweeb
zarek is gonna rebel
mom and dad are shagging (guess he wanted her to look 'flushed' again) ;)
tigh and Six are oddly creepy during the sonogram scene
that nurse is gonna join the rebellion, she was about to blow in the beginning

and my prediction....Roslyn isn't the 'dying leader', it's Adama

Next eps, all out civil war....will it last for 1 or 2 episodes before Cavil shows up and 'enemy of my enemy' is hte order of the day?

Sounds about right.

A couple of hints were definitely dropped that Adama may not be in the best of health. These days, there must always be a twist. It seems that the creative powers behind movies, television, and books aren't content just to let some things be what they are. I blame M. Night Shyamalan. Let Roslin be the dying leader and die, fer chrissakes.

Gaeta . . . can't stand the guy. Why is this whiny little dork still living when so many other more likable characters are worm food?

I believe you're right about the rebels being forced to unite in the face of the "evil" cylon threat.

Briangate78
January 23rd, 2009, 07:13 PM
So after last week's amazing episode we get this. Typical BSG and I was afraid it was going to happen, but not right after the mid-season premiere.

This episode was very slow. I was very disappointed with this episode. After last week's episode high, I just yawned at this one and said, um ok. I think the whole Baltar thing was pretty pointless. It felt more like a soap opera, like who is the real father of said baby or who is still screwing around with who. I really was not impressed with this episode at all. It started to build up with Zarek, but then the next scene it was over and he was in the jail cell talking to Adama. I was expecting something to go down.

Oh well this episode was a build up for next episode which looks excellent. This ep I gave a 7/10 and that was being nice because I do love this show a lot.

On a postive note. Adama and Rosyln got it on! *Boing Chicka ,Boing Chicka*

Skydiver
January 23rd, 2009, 07:15 PM
gaeta didn't used to be such an idiot. but his leg and i think what happened during the face of hte enemy webbies changed him

the dude is cracked basically. he's having a nervous breakdown and ptsd about his injuries

he's just clinging to hte rebellion and it making everything all better, and it won't. he also has a deep seated hate on to the cylons for losing his leg

Finger13
January 23rd, 2009, 07:17 PM
Hmmm, it was a pretty good episode. But I'm not sure about the direction that the show is going. I had always hoped that the Cylons would be met with a bit of decency. I mean yes, they killed 50 billion Colonials and wouldn't just join the fleet without any tension. But these 'people' gave up resurrection. They are just as human as the Colonials. The Colonials committed just as many atrocities on the Cylons (no, they didn't annihilate 50 billion people, but they have killed at least hundreds of thousands by now, even after the Cylons offered a truce). They want to be part of the fleet. Yes, partly for selfish reasons, but they also strike me as being genuine. They offer their technology to the Colonials as a gesture of good faith, and the Quorum of Twelve are too near-sighted and ignorant to even consider it.

Gaeta doesn't exactly strike me as the revolutionary type. I mean sure he aided the insurgency against the Cylons on New Caprica, but now to turn on the Adama's and Cylons? From the snippet that we saw of next week's episode, it looks like Gaeta takes the revolution far beyond what Zarek is willing to do, which again paints Zarek in a favourable light.

I did like the part with all of the politicians, showing their lack of free-thought, courage and competence. Instead of tripling Colonial jump abilities, they support the man who temporarily takes all of the tylium from the fleet?

Zarek is a good character. He has always struck me as the perfect representation of someone who you don't want to see succeed, yet can never hate either. While morally ambiguous, his decisions are never really wrong. They just contradict the Adama-Roslin mindset; a mindset that failed thus far and is now in shambles).

Anyway, it was a good episode and I did enjoy it. While I wish the show had followed a different path, it's still a good watch that I'm finding interesting and original. I just hope that Cylons and Colonials actually make amends, and that Gaeta gets his other leg blown off for being such an annoyance.

Still though, I'm iffy about Gaeta being the man to lead the revolution. It does seem quite plausible given the characters' history. I mean Anders shot his leg off, and a panel that consisted mostly of Cylons almost airlocked him for being a 'collaborator', but still. And I guess he was the secretary for Baltar's Presidency too... Okay fine, he has the right stuff. It still just doesn't feel right to me.

And I loved Baltar's speech about the Gods. That was awesome.

And can't forget Roslin. Poor lady, giving up on dioxin and her medications. I think that we'll be seeing her death soon. It's nice to see that Adama was spending time with her and understanding her condition and sympathizing.

I'm not sure that I see Adama being the dying leader. His morale has taken a hit ever since Tigh was outed as a Cylon, and he is popping pills, but still. Roslin is clearly the dying one, she has cancer and has stopped her treatments. If that doesn't make her the dying leader, then that's ridiculous.

That last shot was kind of creepy, the a naked Adama and bald Roslin.

Skydiver
January 23rd, 2009, 07:17 PM
baltar's situation is a set up for later eps. because i'm willing to bet his religious group will play a major role in the rebellion. and it was nice to see james callis with short hair, FINALLY.

the nicky issue had to be addressed because it was a bit of a plot hole for hera to be praised as the only human/cylon hybrid when they thought that nicky was...and now we know why, he's not a hybrid

bniblett
January 23rd, 2009, 07:17 PM
sooooo

and my prediction....Roslyn isn't the 'dying leader', it's Adama



Agreed!

Chev's Ron
January 23rd, 2009, 07:21 PM
Interesting Episode, nice to see that Nikki isn't a cylon, makes for an interesting twist. Although, I am confused about why Calley was going to airlock her son if she knew he wasn't a cylon.

I also liked how Adama and Tigh have reconciled a bit, though the Chief's resignation of being a cylon and fully allying with them is a little... disappointing.

Speaking of an alliance, I am totally for the cylon/human alliance, and can't wait to see what happens next week.

My favorite scene, next to the one where Six and Tigh are in the ER, is where The Chief forces fatherhood on the one who should have been responcible for the kid in the first place. I've lost alot of respect for calley, she must have been cheating during her and the chief's relationship, or right before, which makes me dislike her even more so with her wanting to abort the child. The human race is small enough as it is, I'm glad the baby has a father that doesn't have to worry about being a cylon and that Hot Dog is in his right place.

Looking forward to next weeks episode as well, I'll be rooting for Adama in that one. It's nice to see him and Tigh fully reconciled when he says, "it has been an honor to serve with you."

Briangate78
January 23rd, 2009, 07:22 PM
The whole Gaeta and Starbuck fight was so cliche'. I mean you saw it coming a mile away and she even threw in a heartless crack about his leg. Didn't see that coming. I just felt half the episode was pointless.

L-S
January 23rd, 2009, 07:25 PM
Gaeta . . . can't stand the guy. Why is this whiny little dork still living when so many other more likable characters are worm food?

He's the functionary, hard-working, dutiful office-worker.. He's a company boy - but really, much more troubled - like company boys actually are at times, beneath the surface.

What's come out of the recent string is that Gaeta is gay - and the comments here about him being a whiny so-and-so may reflect a bias there.

Or, he's just not a marine, a Helo, ready to punch his way out. It reminds me a bit of "Metamorphasis" - he's a bit of a Gregor Samsa - he's turning into a cockroach. He's been made to be an accidental turn-coat - trying to save his people on New Caprica, he's handing lists to the Cylons.

Is it true? Was he intending to kill those people? More writer's tricks. More soapy stuff.

The reality is, Gaeta is 95% of the human race - just trying to survive, do enough to serve the cause, and sometimes rise above. He's been the faithful 'jump' guy for a number of years... he got his leg blown off, oy vay. And now he's getting a little action - BSG taking the first chance it's done with a homosexual character - just the little good-bye kiss in the webisodes... And now, he's just so much chopped liver.

Briangate78
January 23rd, 2009, 07:26 PM
baltar's situation is a set up for later eps. because i'm willing to bet his religious group will play a major role in the rebellion. and it was nice to see james callis with short hair, FINALLY.

the nicky issue had to be addressed because it was a bit of a plot hole for hera to be praised as the only human/cylon hybrid when they thought that nicky was...and now we know why, he's not a hybrid

Yeah but Hera being a hybrid seemed to escape the minds of both the cylons and humans. no one tried to steal her back or really make a big deal like they did in Season 3. They just let her and Helo have their baby back. It was almost like Hera has been forgotten except for the visions of the opera house.

HAL2100
January 23rd, 2009, 07:28 PM
Well, I just hate the fact that the series is ending as I think that the whole we found Earth and its not what we thought it was and the final showdown of the Cylon civil war is still to come with what other revelations to be had still to come could easily fill out a very nice full final season.

I must say though that I have the suspicion that there's going to be a major revelation about the whole 13th tribe and the part that the Final Five play in destiny that I think will blow Cavil out of the water leaving him stupified. Possibly even turn the other Cylon models in his camp against his model.

Briangate78
January 23rd, 2009, 07:30 PM
Well, I just hate the fact that the series is ending as I think that the whole we found Earth and its not what we thought it was and the final showdown of the Cylon civil war is still to come with what other revelations to be had still to come.

I must say though that I have the suspicion that there's going to be a major revelation about the whole 13th tribe and the part that the Final Five play in destiny that I think will blow Cavil out of the water leaving him stupified. Possibly even turn the other Cylon models in his camp against his model.

It's going to come to a head, but several eps like this one, are going to drag. This is what happens with a serial show. I am sure some will be epic, but others will drag.

L-S
January 23rd, 2009, 07:32 PM
why Calley was going to airlock her son if she knew he wasn't a cylon.

Right - she wouldn't have. And that was a remarkable and troubling scenario - the woman Cylon Tory, with inhuman strength, battering the mother, and dispensing her, into space. Wouldn't have happened, if the child hadn't been a mixed breed.

It's disappointing that the writers don't have the courage to throw over a few of their show bible promises to go with the show as it grew organically. I hate the force-fits at the end. Rather see the growth that occurred as a result of cast and crew and time and life going by, than squeezing everything into a pre-determined shape at the end...

the fifth man
January 23rd, 2009, 07:34 PM
I actually didn't mind this episode. Yeah, it was mainly to set things up for episodes still to come. It wasn't action-packed. But it was still entertaining to me. I can't believe we only have 8 left.

HAL2100
January 23rd, 2009, 07:35 PM
It's going to come to a head, but several eps like this one, are going to drag. This is what happens with a serial show. I am sure some will be epic, but others will drag.

Its a filler episode. Basically, an episode where assorted loose ends not easily placed into others can be dumped. Case in point Adama and Rosalin finally doing the horizontal tango and revelation that Tyrol's son its his.

Finger13
January 23rd, 2009, 07:40 PM
Its a filler episode. Basically, an episode where assorted loose ends not easily placed into others can be dumped. Case in point Adama and Rosalin finally doing the horizontal tango and revelation that Tyrol's son its his.

Horizontal tango? Hahahaha, that's great.

Sounds like Cally had a bit of the Horizontal tango going on too.

If anything, this will push the Chief even further away from the Colonials. Now he has no vestiges of attachment to them; his wife offed herself (so he thinks) and his 'son' is human. Poor guy.

Briangate78
January 23rd, 2009, 07:45 PM
Its a filler episode. Basically, an episode where assorted loose ends not easily placed into others can be dumped. Case in point Adama and Rosalin finally doing the horizontal tango and revelation that Tyrol's son its his.

I just thought of this...

Why did Cally try to airlock Nicky if she knew Tyrol wasnt the father, and therefore knew he wasnt a cylon? She would still be alive, unless she was trying to kill herself and her son? Sounds a bit like a plot hole.


Horizontal tango? Hahahaha, that's great.

Sounds like Cally had a bit of the Horizontal tango going on too.

If anything, this will push the Chief even further away from the Colonials. Now he has no vestiges of attachment to them; his wife offed herself (so he thinks) and his 'son' is human. Poor guy.

Everyone on BSG has a Horizontal tango going on. They should of named the show Battlestar Horizontal Tango. :p

L-S
January 23rd, 2009, 07:49 PM
Why did Cally try to airlock Nicky if she knew Tyrol wasnt the father, and therefore knew he wasnt a cylon? She would still be alive, unless she was trying to kill herself and her son? Sounds a bit like a plot hole.


Keep going... maybe they can do a 'take back' on this episode...

Finger13
January 23rd, 2009, 07:50 PM
I just thought of this...

Why did Cally try to airlock Nicky if she knew Tyrol wasnt the father, and therefore knew he wasnt a cylon? She would still be alive, unless she was trying to kill herself and her son? Sounds a bit like a plot hole.



Everyone on BSG has a Horizontal tango going on. They should of named the show Battlestar Horizontal Tango. :p

"Admiral, hump drive is spooled up and ready to go!"
"HUMP!"

"That star is 9 par-sex away!"

"Frak Earth, let's go to Sextan_B"

Man, they could make a whole show of sexual innuendos.

Briangate78
January 23rd, 2009, 07:53 PM
"Admiral, hump drive is spooled up and ready to go!"
"HUMP!"

"That star is 9 par-sex away!"

"Frak Earth, let's go to Sextan_B"

Man, they could make a whole show of sexual innuendos.

LOL, I am being a little overdramatic, the entire show is not all about who is fraking who, but a good portion of it is.

the fifth man
January 23rd, 2009, 07:54 PM
Filler or not, I think this episode served a vital purpose for what is to come.

Trek_Girl42
January 23rd, 2009, 07:57 PM
Well, I LOVED the episode, and I thought tons of stuff happened.

Adama and Roslin were awesomely adorable!

Nicky is Hotdog's son? WTF? (did Hotdog and Cally ever share a scene?) Then again, that wraps up a dangling plot point so we can move on to awesomer stuff, so no complaints there.

Best. Line. Ever. "I need a drink." I love Tigh. And Tigh and Caprica holding hands? A bit surreal..... Glad to see the awesome medic back.

And GAETA leading the uprising on Galactica!? Oh no! I adore Gaeta! :( Poor guy can't come out of this well.

Baltar needs to do something besides preach. But maybe he and his followers will be a deciding force during the uprising.

Love the random details about the trouble on Galactca, garbage in the corridor, a civillian being arrested in the background.....Zarek seems lucky to get a nice big cell all to himself. ;)

HAL2100
January 23rd, 2009, 08:08 PM
For the record, I honestly didn't expect *any* comments regarding my horizontal tango comment.

L-S
January 23rd, 2009, 08:09 PM
Nicky is Hotdog's son? WTF? (did Hotdog and Cally ever share a scene?) Then again, that wraps up a dangling plot point so we can move on to awesomer stuff, so no complaints there.


No, awesomer stuff has been abandoned by this move... why did Baltar's mental 6 have to be telling the only version of the truth, or future?

Why not have a handful, a dozen hybrid babies? Maybe they're all hybrid babies... Taht's about where the show is after last week... why worry about the promises of Baltar's insane dreams? Hard to end a series - it's awfully soapy these days.

sp1ff75
January 23rd, 2009, 08:15 PM
Well Zarek has been revealed to be the same as he's been since he was introduced in season 1. And Gaeta's a douche bag. I have to say that I'm not too hopeful where the fleet's headed. Come on Zarek, there's less than 36,000 people left in the entire human race and all you can do is think about yourself. This episode was good, it had me on the side of Lee and Admiral Adama and made me hate Zarek but also made me REALLY hate Gaeta and I used to love Gaeta as a character since the miniseries. All in all good episode, the very possibility of civil war between the last rememants of humanity is something to look forward to. Can't wait til next week.

Sue_Jackson
January 23rd, 2009, 08:26 PM
This one was a little dull. Definitely not a favorite. Mostly political stuff. But....it looks like the VP is gonna....along with Gaeta....and other rebels....are gonna have uprising.

And.....how come Gaeta all of a sudden in the spotlight? Where has he been? How about that whole cylon bashing he did with Kara in the Mess Hall? What all of a sudden Gaeta's a cylon bigot?

I'm not sure I like Lee as politician. He's gotten so dull. I prefer him in the military as ranking officer. I mean....I love Lee....he's still my favorite character. It's just like he doesn't do much anymore. I liked it when he was in the action better.

And....the whole Six and Saul thing just creeps me out. :S

And.....how about Tyrol not being the father of Callie's son? That just came out of left field for me.

And.....really did NOT need to see Bill and Laura in bed together. :S(*tries to shake image from mind*)

daniel9
January 23rd, 2009, 08:27 PM
baltar's situation is a set up for later eps. because i'm willing to bet his religious group will play a major role in the rebellion. and it was nice to see james callis with short hair, FINALLY.




lol baltar's group will probably be against the zarek/gaeta group rebellion. looking at his past and such

Shan Bruce Lee
January 23rd, 2009, 09:02 PM
This episode wouldn't have been nearly as bad as it was if they'd started at the end instead of putting all the stuff that nobody cares about first. The interesting part of this episode was the rebellion. They should've started with the Quorum vote and the tanker jumping away then show Zarek in the brig and all that stuff.

I think Zarek is my favorite character now. Is it just me or are him and Geata the only main/important characters that actually get it? I don't care if Adama thinks holding hands with the Cylons and skipping and singing is gonna make everything look like sunshine and lollypops... 50 billion people were killed in cold blood and Zarek is the only one that seems to give a ****.

And Geata - These people are supposed to be military and the only one willing to stand up to Starbuck is the guy with one leg. It's not like Starbuck is that tuff. She got in a cat-fight with the least physically intimidating Cylon model and a boxing match that ending in... hugging. And these people are acting like John Wayne just walked into the saloon every time she gets up. All Geata had to do was call her out and put her in her place. I like his character.

It's a damn shame the writers are more than likely gonna either kill off both of those characters

Shan Bruce Lee
January 23rd, 2009, 09:07 PM
I'm not sure I like Lee as politician. He's gotten so dull. I prefer him in the military as ranking officer. I mean....I love Lee....he's still my favorite character. It's just like he doesn't do much anymore. I liked it when he was in the action better.

I'd love it if they put him back in a viper.


And....the whole Six and Saul thing just creeps me out. :S

You don't like Anna Nicole Six?

GateTrek2004
January 23rd, 2009, 09:11 PM
How much you wanna bet that the child the Six is going to have is, in some freaky way, going to be Ellen Reborn? That would be crazy!

GateTrek2004
January 23rd, 2009, 09:12 PM
I'd love it if they put him back in a viper.



You don't like Anna Nicole Six?

I was thinking "OK Lee time for ANOTHER career change!"

Fab. Anna Six, she's so Amazing! Anna Six!

daniel9
January 23rd, 2009, 09:17 PM
How much you wanna bet that the child the Six is going to have is, in some freaky way, going to be Ellen Reborn? That would be crazy!

we'll seee since
ellen returns in the next ep as does head six

anotherquestion
January 23rd, 2009, 09:36 PM
Gaeta, more than most, has good reason to hate the old and the new "breed" of cylons. After all the Sharon model he was intimate with on Carprica had behaved badly in the interim Webisodes; Anders, one of the Final Five, had caused him to lose his leg, he was almost airlocked himself by Saul Tigh--nowhere has he experienced a Cylon he could trust, much less respect.

Adama definitely is coming down with something. He shouldn't be picking up other people's trash as he's been doing. Gloves, next time, Admiral.

Love among the ruins with Rosyln and Adama. A union with about as many bright future prospects as a merger between WaMu and Lehman brothers.

Baltar is back to his callous (Callis) self, completely oblivious and un-caring about the fistfight happening literally at his feet. Lovely to see you again.

The Final Five are a strange group. Their immortality does not seem to depend on resurrection vats. I suspect Ellen will return in a form only visible to Saul, just as he saw Six earlier as Ellen. Remember Cylons have the power to "project" their own surroundings.

Starbuck is just insufferable. Rosyln's despair is understandable, but what keeps Starbuck going ?

Detox
January 23rd, 2009, 11:04 PM
This episodes one of the things that I don't like about Galactica. It's too slow and dull, and even on top of that, the people in the fleet, and the viewers just can't get a break from the constant depressing moments one after another.

I honestly think the direction Moore's going in is too unrealistic. The Quorum seem like a bunch of idiots. People aren't that stupid. Here they are, give a chance to increase their survival significantly, and they're all complaining, no! We don't want it! Because we're all morons!.

Christ.

Not to mention the trailer for this episode was horrifically misleading. The trailer showed Athena and the Marines boarding a ship and taking the Zarek by force, and I am definitely pissed that scene got cut out.

Please Ronald Moore, I beg of you, don't go in Prison Break's direction. Sometimes, maybe once in a while, GIVE YOUR CHARACTERS A BREAK!

Night Marshal
January 23rd, 2009, 11:48 PM
The whole Gaeta and Starbuck fight was so cliche'. I mean you saw it coming a mile away and she even threw in a heartless crack about his leg. Didn't see that coming. I just felt half the episode was pointless.
its kinda sad but that flight between Gaeta and Starbuck reminded me of the same flight in Wild wild west. All that was missing was the racial undertones.

Legionnaire
January 24th, 2009, 12:32 AM
I liked this episode. Sure, it wasn't all that action-packed and not really any major bombshells dropped besides Cally sleeping around, but it did a good job of building up for major future happenings and I enjoy the political intrigue of the show. C'man, we're four seasons in and the show is ending, you all know by now that BSG mixes action with drama and politics, some days you get more action, other days you get more drama and politics, that's how it has always been.

They have been, in a way, building up for a Zarek rebellion ever since he was introduced in Bastille Day, and I think it is only fitting it happens now, when the people of the fleet are shattered, and ready to lash out at anyone or anything in anger and frustration that the one hope they had turned out to be false. While some might think people are reacting unrealistically, "too stupid," I would disagree.

The re-energized movement against the Cylons is a product of this lashing out and blaming of others for one's problems, and what better scapegoat or enemy than the guys who wiped out your race? I would say most people in the fleet were not ever really comfortable with Cylons working at all with Galactica to begin with, hence the multiple conflicts with Athena and others even into this season, but they mostly remained willing to go along with it because Earth took precedence, and now that that hope is gone to them there is no longer a willingness to tolerate the Cylons.

Lastly, I don't know about anyone else, but I found myself chuckling a quite a few times in this episode, Adama's "Some days I really hate this job" line for one. I'd say the first episode was way more depressing than this one, I mean, nobody shot themselves in the head this time.

Wayston
January 24th, 2009, 01:36 AM
It wasn't a bad episode because I expected it to be a bit of a slow go'er... even though I would rather have it differently

it makes sense that many people can't stand the cylons and would rebel against any citizenship for them

it's easy to forget that the ordinary people in the fleet had actual lives that were destroyed by the cylon holocaust and that they have been constantly running and fearing for their lives in the past 4 years. they aren't going to be easily swayed by the top brass claiming "but these cylons are the good guys"

I can especially understand the hostility towards allowing cylon technology on their ships since this was exactly what lead to the speedy collapse of the 12 colonies and what almost got galactica offed a couple years later

it also makes sense that Zarek would be against a cylon alliance; on real life earth he would be the perennial communist that fights for the poor against the establishment, he will see every decision of roslyn and adama as a means to consolidate their power regardless of their actual intention

the decision of the quorum is also plausible, it was actually rather balanced since they didn't flat out block adama's plans, just gave individual fleet captains the authority to follow their own conscience

AutumnDream
January 24th, 2009, 01:49 AM
This episodes one of the things that I don't like about Galactica. It's too slow and dull, and even on top of that, the people in the fleet, and the viewers just can't get a break from the constant depressing moments one after another.

Heh, to the average Stargate fan any piece of film that doesn't feature something blowing up every 5 minutes is dull. The mature among us, however, will be enjoying the characters and dialogue. ('Dialogue' is when people are talking. It is entertaining when you get older, or at least grow out of getting highs off of sweeping military victories facilitated by arbitrary science fiction mechanics.)

Platschu
January 24th, 2009, 01:50 AM
This episode was bad, boring and a huge disappointment to me.

1. D'Anna was written out so stupidly. She would never left her Cylon friends behind...

2. We couldn't see how Tigh explained Ellen was a Cylon...

3. We couldn't see what was the pregnant Six's opinion about Tigh...

4. The whole Plan, the Operahouse was forgotten...

The only good scenes were:

1. When Adama gave order to arrest Zarek.

2. The Starbuck-Gaeta conversation.

So, I can give only 3/10 point. :(:(:(

GateTrek2004
January 24th, 2009, 02:19 AM
we'll seee since
ellen returns in the next ep as does head six

She returns in actual physical form or in a dream?

Agent_Dark
January 24th, 2009, 03:32 AM
People aren't that stupid

uhh, yeah they are actually. Especially people in governments

fwupow
January 24th, 2009, 04:11 AM
Disappointing and depressing episode.

The series has gone dark again like they did during the season 2 to 3 transition.

More political shenanigans and no answers to any questions provided whatsoever.

At least no major new questions were raised.

drake122
January 24th, 2009, 04:13 AM
Bald president and adama in bed = nightmares for me for a week. I shouldn't have watched this ep!

huntress
January 24th, 2009, 04:50 AM
The interesting thing about the episode was that I understood both sides. It is the dilemma from a very early point on.

Gaeta: He just imploded in the nastiest way. The fact that he lost his leg and also his "adventure" in the webisode "Face of the Enemy" PLUS the fact that Earth is a radiation wasteland was just too much . Still I have trouble sympathizing with him or Zarek. So yeah the Cylons distroyed their planets and they wouldn't be in the position they are in now if the Cylons hadn't attacked and killed almost all the colonists.

still

Position Adamas, Kara and company: Because there are only a handfull of people left it makes no sense at all in starting a war and kill even more of the precious few that live. The Cylons that allied themselves with the humans gave up their capabilities to resurrect. The other half is just sick and tired of fighting and want to find a new home and start over with better premisses. Is that so hard to understand?

Because of that I am siding with the Pro-Cylon group. Time to bury the hatchet and move forward.

The story around the chief and his son. That was unexpected but I am sure it has the purpose of severing the last bond the chief has to humanity. He has no ties left with the humans. Tigh is exepecting a baby with Caprica Six, Tory already switched sides while she was still on Galactica. No clue about Anders.

g.o.d
January 24th, 2009, 06:29 AM
I didn't like this episode as the previous one, but it was still great...but not that great :D

and Tigh, Caprica Six and doc Cottle were sooo funny and their scene was absolutely amazing. One of the funniest in the whole series

g.o.d
January 24th, 2009, 06:33 AM
She returns in actual physical form or in a dream?

most likely in a physical form

Arative
January 24th, 2009, 07:03 AM
Q&A with RDM about this episode
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/01/battlestar-galactica-ron-moore-disquiet-follows-my-soul.html#more

Briangate78
January 24th, 2009, 07:17 AM
its kinda sad but that flight between Gaeta and Starbuck reminded me of the same flight in Wild wild west. All that was missing was the racial undertones.

LOL, yeah that is exactly what that reminded me of.


Heh, to the average Stargate fan any piece of film that doesn't feature something blowing up every 5 minutes is dull. The mature among us, however, will be enjoying the characters and dialogue. ('Dialogue' is when people are talking. It is entertaining when you get older, or at least grow out of getting highs off of sweeping military victories facilitated by arbitrary science fiction mechanics.)

LOL, Stargate at least has variety. This episode actually wasn't half bad because they threw some comic relief. Like when Adama says "Sometimes I hate this job" was hilarious.

When character dialogue is kinda pointless it makes it even more boring. I enjoy the drama also, but not Soap Opera drama. That is going too far for my taste.

g.o.d
January 24th, 2009, 07:25 AM
I'm not suprised that so many complain about this episode.Yes, I agree, this episode was very slow and few moments were boring, but this episodealso sets up a major story line for the next episodes. Also many people complained about Ellen being the fifth cylon, about Earth (We wanted shiny Earth with powerful humans with mighty weapons which will help us and not this fried hell hole). Guys, this is not a Stargate, there are no magical superweapons waiting for you, there are no plasma beams of death, this show is about characters. Like it or not, this is a dark show and a space soap-opera in some aspects. And don't expect happy-endings, from what I've heard, it's going to be even darker and sadder

Back40
January 24th, 2009, 07:56 AM
I thought the episode was pretty good (if you're an A/R shipper, the ending was damn good!!!), but it felt flat after last week's episode. I, like some others here, wondered if it was an issue with it being the first episode back after the writer's strike. You'd think it would be easier for the cast to carry on through, especially after the emotional build-up they would have had in the first 10 episodes, so maybe the break left them flat.

I've watched it a couple of times now, and I don't think the writing is the issue - there's some good dialogue here and I don't have any problems with the storyline (I'm a wait-and-see-what-happens kind of viewer).

About half way through the second viewing, it hit me that the whole thing felt really 2-D, then I realized that there was nothing that gripped you about the camera shots. It was the direction that seemed lacking. When I looked at who was directing and realized it was RDM himself making his debut, that explained it. You could have had the same material directed by Michael Rymer or Michael Nankin, and it would have felt completely different. The skill of the director is not just in picking the right shots, but also in pulling the best performance out of the actors, and I really don't think either was here in this epi.

All this being said, everyone has to learn their craft through experience, and if anyone has earned that right in this series, it would be RDM. :)

Skydiver
January 24th, 2009, 08:26 AM
Right - she wouldn't have. And that was a remarkable and troubling scenario - the woman Cylon Tory, with inhuman strength, battering the mother, and dispensing her, into space. Wouldn't have happened, if the child hadn't been a mixed breed.

It's disappointing that the writers don't have the courage to throw over a few of their show bible promises to go with the show as it grew organically. I hate the force-fits at the end. Rather see the growth that occurred as a result of cast and crew and time and life going by, than squeezing everything into a pre-determined shape at the end...

or, in the midst of her emotional break down, cally freaked out being surrounded by cylons (and wasn't she on mood altering drugs as well?) and was gonna kill her dhild to 'protect' him, then chickened out and couldn't kill her son.

as a matter of fact, i seem to recall her being ready to come in and not kill herself...then tori tossed h er down the launch tube and killed her. she was murdered by tori.





And.....how come Gaeta all of a sudden in the spotlight? Where has he been? How about that whole cylon bashing he did with Kara in the Mess Hall? What all of a sudden Gaeta's a cylon bigot?



Like someone says below, he's been nothing but betrayed by cylons. and his PTSD over losing his leg, complicated by the emotional nadir of finding that hte 'promised land' is a barren dead zone....he cracked up. and the cylons are his 'it's all your fault' blame recipients


Gaeta, more than most, has good reason to hate the old and the new "breed" of cylons. After all the Sharon model he was intimate with on Carprica had behaved badly in the interim Webisodes; Anders, one of the Final Five, had caused him to lose his leg, he was almost airlocked himself by Saul Tigh--nowhere has he experienced a Cylon he could trust, much less respect.

yep :)


Adama definitely is coming down with something. He shouldn't be picking up other people's trash as he's been doing. Gloves, next time, Admiral.


that's part of the 'light hand' of this episode. remember last week's? right before the tigh/adama smackdown? Adama was walking right past people brawling in the corridors and didn't seem to give a damn. now he cares so much he's picking up scraps of paper. He's caring again. He's on his way back up from his emotional low

he has something to live for again, which is roslyn and his duty to get his people to a safe haven. and i think he'll do just about anything to accomplish that goal...possibly even making a 'deal with the devil' to insure his peoples' safety



Lastly, I don't know about anyone else, but I found myself chuckling a quite a few times in this episode, Adama's "Some days I really hate this job" line for one. I'd say the first episode was way more depressing than this one, I mean, nobody shot themselves in the head this time.

i chuckled too. there were some great lines in it, nothing OTT, just 'gallows humor' as people struggle to deal with things

Norian
January 24th, 2009, 08:27 AM
I really liked this episode. After last week’s events, the characters are making some effort to move on, sometimes in ways that are not particularly productive. The first part of the Earth is frakked arc is done and now it is time to set up the characters and situations for the next chapter. I love these character-based episodes, at least when they are as well done as this one. I have always like Gaeta and it is sad to see him going down this very dark path. I expected that Zarek (sp?) would be one of the big bads of this season and was not surprised about his criminal activities.

As soon as I saw that last Adama/Roslin scene, I knew that the shippers would be ecstatic and many of the, shall I say less mature (as in grown-up),viewers would be going UGH! I thought the scene was lovely and very well done and probably the last moment of true happiness that Adama and Roslin will have. She is clearly going to die; he is just hungover, I suspect. I had wondered if we would ever see the two of them together with Roslin sans wig. Adama obviously doesn’t care a bit about that, nor should he.

Next week’s episode looks action packed, so hopefully it will satisfy more people.

Detox
January 24th, 2009, 08:39 AM
Heh, to the average Stargate fan any piece of film that doesn't feature something blowing up every 5 minutes is dull. The mature among us, however, will be enjoying the characters and dialogue. ('Dialogue' is when people are talking. It is entertaining when you get older, or at least grow out of getting highs off of sweeping military victories facilitated by arbitrary science fiction mechanics.)

It's obvious you didn't read a thing I wrote. And I don't really care for your condescending tone.

My biggest problem with it is that it's too depressing. Moore just keeps putting his character in a constantly declining series of events. And eventually, after four seasons, that just gets dull. Change things up for a bit, add something positive to the fleet. Realistically, no one is that unlucky to be thrown disasters after disasters.

marielabbott
January 24th, 2009, 08:44 AM
Best. Line. Ever. "I need a drink." I love Tigh. And Tigh and Caprica holding hands? A bit surreal..... Glad to see the awesome medic back.

And GAETA leading the uprising on Galactica!? Oh no! I adore Gaeta! :( Poor guy can't come out of this well.

Heh, that was a good line, but I think Adama's "Some days I really hate this job," line was even better. :D And oh, my, chalk up Gaeta to be another character I like driven down a dark path, most likely to death.


The interesting thing about the episode was that I understood both sides. It is the dilemma from a very early point on.

Yeah, which I thought was the strength of the episode. In reality, you would have people polarized on this issue, and likely get a power struggle as a result, which is just what we're seeing.


The story around the chief and his son. That was unexpected but I am sure it has the purpose of severing the last bond the chief has to humanity. He has no ties left with the humans. Tigh is exepecting a baby with Caprica Six, Tory already switched sides while she was still on Galactica. No clue about Anders.

Yeah, I felt bad for the Chief when he was struggling with the "we" and "ours" in the beginning. But now he doesn't have a lot left to tie him to humanity, with the revelation of what his wife did (and wow, that paints a whole new picture of Cally and her actions), and the fact that he's not a father by blood. Tigh and Six are creepy as all get out, but I'm thinking the revelation that Ellen is also a Cylon helped Tigh accept his own place among them. Looks like next week we'll be seeing Anders...his tie to humanity seemed to be Starbuck, so I don't think that's going to go well. :S

g.o.d
January 24th, 2009, 08:48 AM
It's obvious you didn't read a thing I wrote. And I don't really care for your condescending tone.

My biggest problem with it is that it's too depressing.
oh lord, they're at war, billions of humans were wiped out, Cavil's forces are still chasing them, Earth was a nuclear wasteland. What the heck do you mean it's too depresing? Of course it's depressing. They're not living in a fantasy world!


Moore just keeps putting his character in a constantly declining series of events. And eventually, after four seasons, that just gets dull. Change things up for a bit, add something positive to the fleet. Realistically, no one is that unlucky to be thrown disasters after disasters.

why the hell should they do that? If you want popcorn fun with jokes, watch Stargate. This show has been very depressing from the very beginning.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 24th, 2009, 08:53 AM
Heh, to the average Stargate fan any piece of film that doesn't feature something blowing up every 5 minutes is dull. The mature among us, however, will be enjoying the characters and dialogue. ('Dialogue' is when people are talking. It is entertaining when you get older, or at least grow out of getting highs off of sweeping military victories facilitated by arbitrary science fiction mechanics.)

That's kinda insulting and honestly a little immature (ironically)

The problems people have with this episode have nothing to do with a comparison to Stargate or the dialogue. There's a lot more to writing than just dialogue.

The biggest problem with this episode was the pacing. It felt almost like 2 half-hour episodes. If they'd made Zarek and Geata's rebellion the main focal point and condensed everything else and let it all unfold in the background of the actual conflict the episode would've felt more engaging.

The way it was done, the rebellion was buried under everything else which made the first half of the episode (and probably more like first 40 minutes) feel like you were watching home videos from the fleet.

The only conflict in any of that stuff was Tyrol/Hot Dog and there's nothing epic about that. You can sit here all day and say BSG isn't Stargate but at the end of the day BSG needs a larger conflict to have any epic impact.

Briangate78
January 24th, 2009, 08:58 AM
That's kinda insulting and honestly a little immature (ironically)

The problems people have with this episode have nothing to do with a comparison to Stargate or the dialogue. There's a lot more to writing than just dialogue.

The biggest problem with this episode was the pacing. It felt almost like 2 half-hour episodes. If they'd made Zarek and Geata's rebellion the main focal point and condensed everything else and let it all unfold in the background of the actual conflict the episode would've felt more engaging.

The way it was done, the rebellion was buried under everything else which made the first half of the episode (and probably more like first 40 minutes) feel like you were watching home videos from the fleet.

The only conflict in any of that stuff was Tyrol/Hot Dog and there's nothing epic about that. You can sit here all day and say BSG isn't Stargate but at the end of the day BSG needs a larger conflict to have any epic impact.

LOL, when BSG has plot holes and poor writing people get all defensive. Hmmm sounds all too familar with a little show called Stargate Atlantis. Eps like this prove that BSG can be duller than a brick wall at times. Yes, maybe it's setting up for something big, but the writing was sloppy with this episode. The whole Gaeta and Starbuck fight was immature at best, and the Cally plot had more holes than swiss cheese.

HAL2100
January 24th, 2009, 08:59 AM
Starbuck is just insufferable. Rosyln's despair is understandable, but what keeps Starbuck going ?

Starbuck: What am I? What the hell am I? I'm the frackin' Energizer bunny!

(And here comes my new sig....)

huntress
January 24th, 2009, 09:02 AM
...Like it or not, this is a dark show and a space soap-opera in some aspects. And don't expect happy-endings, from what I've heard, it's going to be even darker and sadder

This is was is truly scary for me. Edward James Olmos said so himself that the series finale will be a punch in the gut and really dark. Makes me wonder how you can beat Earth being a radioactive wasteland : shudders : I love it when the series talks more and has less action. One of the high points of the series was for example the trial of Balthar and especially the speech that Lee gave then.

Bruman
January 24th, 2009, 09:02 AM
I LOVED the line "Sometimes, I really hate this job." It was an important moment of comic relief.

This episode was slow and I didn't like that so much, but I can tell that they're just moving pieces into place for more stuff coming up, and so I'm willing to put up with that. It still had some interesting bits about how the characters are adapting to life without a search for Earth. It is comforting to see Adama starting to pull it back together... he has the right to fall apart, but I like that he's doing what he can.

Adama and Rosslyn together. I guess it's about time to resolve that tension. I'm wondering if the apparent mutiny next week will pull Rosslyn out of her condition and realize that to save Adama/the fleet/whatvever, she may have to be presidential again and pull rank on Zarek.

I didn't understand Tyrol's "we/us/them" confusion, but after reading here it makes more sense to me. I also remember how he was saying to Adama just after Cally died that "we didn't end up with the people we wanted to..." I took that to suggest that he still carried a torch for Boomer. Now that he knows he's a Cylon, he may be thinking "what was so bad about being with Boomer - these humans haven't been so great to me." Now that he's free from Cally and Nikki, maybe he feels that he can go be with Boomer again.

Which is an interesting bit too. The Cavil guys are all men, "except Cavil's pet Boomer." All the women went with the humans, 6s 8s, the last 3. As well as the Leobens. I was wondering "wouldn't this be a RDM style if all the humans and rebel cylons die in space, and the other Cylons end up evolving into the next generation of humans..." fine, except that there are no females, and cylon-cylon pairings (at least of the 7) don't result in children. So even though I'm just going off on a wild limb here, that would definitely be a sad ending.

I do hope that RDM does give 'em a break at some point. It is true that when people die of diseases, they sort of feel that everything goes from bad to worse like this.

Gaeta is an interesting character. Was I the only one last week that looked at Gaeta (just before Dee offed herself) thinking "is he going to rape her?" I thought it was a bit sinister. So he's just losing it. And there's this thing he did on New Caprica that he's trying to cover up.

Baltar definitely has an interesting role to play. I could imagine Rosslyn and Baltar both playing roles in the uprising... Rosslyn pulling rank on Zarek, and Baltar discrediting Gaeta.

It's definitely going to get interesting.

BobBot
January 24th, 2009, 09:13 AM
the people in the fleet, and the viewers just can't get a break from the constant depressing moments one after another.

I honestly think the direction Moore's going in is too unrealistic. The Quorum seem like a bunch of idiots. People aren't that stupid. Here they are, give a chance to increase their survival significantly, and they're all complaining, no! We don't want it! Because we're all morons!.
GIVE YOUR CHARACTERS A BREAK!

But Moore has said that it's not going to be a happy ending! It's very realistic - real life doesn't have happy moments just when they are needed. People get worn down, and when they think it can't get worse, it does. Just look at the global recession, people are feeling like the characters on BSG right now.

The Quorum does seem like a bunch of idiots - a perfectly realistic representation of government. Going for the popular, easy route instead of the one that will lead to success. They don't care what happens to the voters, just votes. It's easy to make popular decisions and promises, and it's hard to come up with a way to keep them. Corrupt politicians like Zarek are 10 a penny in real life too. It's not hard to see that the fleet is stronger with the thousands of rebel cylons and their baseships than without them, not to mention their knowledge of Cavill, even if it is emotionally difficult to accept them.

Life is going to get harder for the characters. Especially with selfish cowards like Gaeta being around. He lost a leg, big deal - like Starbuck said, 50 billion dead and he's upset about his leg!? Disrespecting his Admiral? Siding with Zarek? Balthar has felt guilt about his unwitting role in the attacks on the colonies, but Gaeta knows what he's doing. I feel that he's going to bring about a resistance and Kara will end it - likely resulting in the death of most humans.

huntress
January 24th, 2009, 09:16 AM
LOL, when BSG has plot holes and poor writing people get all defensive. Hmmm sounds all too familar with a little show called Stargate Atlantis. Eps like this prove that BSG can be duller than a brick wall at times. Yes, maybe it's setting up for something big, but the writing was sloppy with this episode. The whole Gaeta and Starbuck fight was immature at best, and the Cally plot had more holes than swiss cheese.

Dull? Have we been watching the same show. It wasn't dull at all...I guess you would also think "Frost/Nixon" as dull am I right?

Kara was never mature, that is why she loves to start fights and ends up in the brig on regular basis. Kara has some serious problems. Problems that she can't even tell anyone. Felix has completely broken down. He lost his leg, he saw a crew being murdered in front of his eyes and barely survived himself, the only thing that had given him strength has turned into a nightmare and one of his best friends has commited suicide right in front of him. This man is going around the bend for very obvious reasons and his conversation with Kara was a very human reaction.

Skydiver
January 24th, 2009, 09:22 AM
Guys

Let's lose this petty baiting over shows. The topic is the most recent episode of BSG.

Don't snark about other shows, and if people do snark, don't be silly enough to take the bait and escalate things.

BobBot
January 24th, 2009, 09:23 AM
it also makes sense that Zarek would be against a cylon alliance; on real life earth he would be the perennial communist that fights for the poor against the establishment, he will see every decision of roslyn and adama as a means to consolidate their power regardless of their actual intention

the decision of the quorum is also plausible, it was actually rather balanced since they didn't flat out block adama's plans, just gave individual fleet captains the authority to follow their own conscience

Zarek is only out for power for himself, like so many communists. Roslyn and Adama need total power - the situation is too desperate, too urgent. Tough, unpopular decisions need to be made - sometimes the decision that keeps the people alive is the one that people hate.

As for individual captains being able to choose about the jump drives - if one ship refuses it, that ship will slow down the whole fleet, or will get abandoned when Cavill shows up and then it'll be Adama who is criticized for not forcing the new drives on each ship!

Briangate78
January 24th, 2009, 09:35 AM
Dull? Have we been watching the same show. It wasn't dull at all...I guess you would also think "Frost/Nixon" as dull am I right?



Hey, it's my opinion. I was watching it with family and one of my family members said, wow that was pretty dull.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 24th, 2009, 09:39 AM
Zarek is only out for power for himself, like so many communists. Roslyn and Adama need total power - the situation is too desperate, too urgent. Tough, unpopular decisions need to be made - sometimes the decision that keeps the people alive is the one that people hate.

What exactly did Zarek do that makes you say that? The only thing I saw him do was give the individual captains the right to choose for themselves. I don't know where you get Communist from either.


As for individual captains being able to choose about the jump drives - if one ship refuses it, that ship will slow down the whole fleet, or will get abandoned when Cavill shows up and then it'll be Adama who is criticized for not forcing the new drives on each ship!

Why? He wouldn't have been the one that made the decision.

HAL2100
January 24th, 2009, 09:47 AM
Here's something interesting...

http://galactica.wikia.com/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_mythology

...which after you read it would suggest that Hybrid's 'prophecy' concerning Kara is nothing more than a lie programmed into the Hybrid as something to recite to her with the intent to mess with her. The 'prophecy' has only been stated by Hyrbrids.

HAL2100
January 24th, 2009, 10:02 AM
This is was is truly scary for me. Edward James Olmos said so himself that the series finale will be a punch in the gut and really dark.

I think that most of them all die.

g.o.d
January 24th, 2009, 10:08 AM
Here's something interesting...

http://galactica.wikia.com/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_mythology

...which after you read it would suggest that Hybrid's 'prophecy' concerning Kara is nothing more than a lie programmed into the Hybrid as something to recite to her with the intent to mess with her. The 'prophecy' has only been stated by Hyrbrids.

that's a Wikia. I don't trust this site a word and I've seen this theory before on some other forums.

HAL2100
January 24th, 2009, 10:30 AM
that's a Wikia. I don't trust this site a word and I've seen this theory before on some other forums.

Quite true but it does answer a great many things...have to at least given them some credit for plausibility.

Arative
January 24th, 2009, 10:37 AM
I think that most of them all die.

I fully expect everyone to die except Hera and the Tigh/6 brat.

LoneStar1836
January 24th, 2009, 11:36 AM
Interesting Episode, nice to see that Nikki isn't a cylon, makes for an interesting twist. Although, I am confused about why Calley was going to airlock her son if she knew he wasn't a cylon.



I just thought of this...

Why did Cally try to airlock Nicky if she knew Tyrol wasnt the father, and therefore knew he wasnt a cylon? She would still be alive, unless she was trying to kill herself and her son? Sounds a bit like a plot hole. How so? People in real life kill their children for all kinds of f'ed up reasons...none of them rational...except maybe to them.

If she had only killed herself, Tyrol would have still been alive and thus had custody of the child. Maybe that was reason enough for her in her moment of panic. She was doped up on meds and then the hammer drops that her husband was a Cylon...it drove her over the edge and rational thought was tossed away.


As far as I'm concerned this was just the writer's (who was RDM for this episode) easy way of avoiding the whole hybrid issue as now the child is as human as can be so it's one less issue to have to focus on. Which actually I am perfectly fine with. Though I thought it was interesting for Chief's character. He's loved this child and now he's not even his...one less connection to his past life as a "human".

I'm still waiting for Torry to get what is coming to her...Tyrol finding out that she killed Cally...though by this point Tyrol may not really care that she killed Cally if he ever found out.

sp1ff75
January 24th, 2009, 12:11 PM
This one was a little dull. Definitely not a favorite. Mostly political stuff. But....it looks like the VP is gonna....along with Gaeta....and other rebels....are gonna have uprising.

And.....how come Gaeta all of a sudden in the spotlight? Where has he been? How about that whole cylon bashing he did with Kara in the Mess Hall? What all of a sudden Gaeta's a cylon bigot?



The Face of the Enemy webisodes were meant to explain that. On New Caprica Gaeta had an affair with on of the 8's. He thought that he was giving her a list of names of important people that she would help save but in turn she took the list and had everyone on that list killed. Gaeta didn't find out until that 8 and himself were alone on the Raptor and Gaeta realized that he was no better than Baltar.

Pic
January 24th, 2009, 12:26 PM
Just when you think you've got a character figured out, you get these curve-balls (Felix/Laura/Bill/etc)

I'm more apprehensive now than I was at the end of 'Revelations'.

tricky
January 24th, 2009, 12:39 PM
This episode was pretty good, for a bridge episode. (meaning it's supposed to bridge from one arc to another, this one being the revolution) You know, even though we are supposed to think Ellen Tigh is the final Cylon, I still wonder if this is all a red herring? I mean, her and 6 look alot alike.
I can understand why some of the fleet feel the way that they do about Cylons: The did try to wipe out humanity TWICE (remember, there was a war before the show) and have been hounding them mercilously. Would a chance to get better FTL drives change peoples hearts?
Gaeta: wow, from loyal officer,to Balter's right hand, now to mutineer (and if you believe some people, Final Cylon). But as stated above, of all the characters we have seen, he has suffered the most at the hands of Cylons.

So, who's going to bite it next week; some of that footage looked pretty hardcore.

BobBot
January 24th, 2009, 12:45 PM
What exactly did Zarek do that makes you say that? The only thing I saw him do was give the individual captains the right to choose for themselves. I don't know where you get Communist from either.

Why? He wouldn't have been the one that made the decision.

Zarek's whole story has been him trying for power - he claims to be some sort of freedom fighter, but I don't buy they. He wanted the presidency, in this episode he tried to hold Roslyn/Adama to ransom by removing the fuel supply. That's a play for power. (The 'communist' reference came from the post I was replying to).

Adama would be blamed for not forcing the ships to accept the upgrade; the people would say he knew the upgrade was a military matter and that he is responsible for all such matters. They will say he was willing to abandon those ships, because they can't keep up with the rest. The fact that he was abiding by the decision of the quorum won't matter to the people, they will want to blame someone in authority. And it means that Adama is in a no-win situation; he can't force the upgrade, he can't not force the upgrade. Whatever he does, people will blame him - and I suspect that will be a factor in the collapse of order among the survivors, and their eventual end.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 24th, 2009, 01:03 PM
Zarek's whole story has been him trying for power - he claims to be some sort of freedom fighter, but I don't buy they. He wanted the presidency, in this episode he tried to hold Roslyn/Adama to ransom by removing the fuel supply. That's a play for power.

The thing you have to keep in mind about him wanting the Presidency or any position of power is what he's done with that power. He's using the power he's already got to help the people that put him there and do what they want.

If anything, Adama has been the one wearing the "decider" label. Like putting the entire fleet at risk just to get Starbuck back when they had issues over Zack. He also had a little mutiny of his own once... the only difference is that he wasn't doing it because the people wanted it, he was doing it because he thought he knew best.

Berg417448
January 24th, 2009, 02:00 PM
More political shenanigans and no answers to any questions provided whatsoever.


Removal of baby Nick as a cylon hybrid was a big question resolved.

L-S
January 24th, 2009, 02:15 PM
How so? People in real life kill their children for all kinds of f'ed up reasons...none of them rational...except maybe to them.

If she had only killed herself, Tyrol would have still been alive and thus had custody of the child. Maybe that was reason enough for her in her moment of panic. She was doped up on meds and then the hammer drops that her husband was a Cylon...it drove her over the edge and rational thought was tossed away.

You're plugging plot holes for the writers - that's not your job - that's theirs to do by writing honestly...

Tory, the hot Hindu Cylon, would have happily disposed of both human mommy and child to protect her secret in the fleet (her secret golem-cylon identity), no? What would've stopped her?

We've lost that thread, it's been subsumed in the writing of the 'galactica bible' - the notion that the promises of the Uber-Six we first knew in Baltar's head, regarding 'their child' (she and Baltar's), being born through Sharon and Helo...

Look, it's a crap-up in the writing - no reason to not have a dozen mixed-lineage kids. No reason to say that Baltar's dreams were absolutely accurate or universal - they drove him to whatever purposes - the grounding of the fleet on New Caprica, the nuclear annihilation of the pretty forest ship (Cloud 9), and his conversion to One-God-ism.

They just got stuck in writer's cramp, a leg-lock, an overly literal position that they, or Moore, or whomever, thought they had to uphold.

Or, what's the more interesting question that comes out of the multiple pairings of Cylon and human, or Cylon and 'replicant'-Cylon?

The deeper questions go to - 'what is humanity? what is it to feel, to dream, to be alive, to be conscious? To have a conscience? To be a spiritual entity?'

I dislike the slavish attention to internal 'prophecy' over honest character development.

Tory, the replicant, threw poor, wane, passive-aggressive Cally into space, and not her child - because the Child was a Cylon, and Tory the Cylon felt this to be so, or the child would've joined the mother.

The character had no relationship with any other male, was intensely, suicidally loyal to the 'replicant'-Chief, to the point of being beaten brutally by him - and wanting more. Not a 'cheating wife' by any previous measure - it was just written in as a plot convenience.

The reason the writers have altered this internal logical reality, is to adhere to an oppositional preconceived and determined notion of the number of 'mixed' children, and the ultimate progression or position of the chief's character...

Poor Cally. To die for bad writing. And among so much good writing!

knowles2
January 24th, 2009, 02:21 PM
I am two minds about this episode, I actually liked it, which odd because usually I find most these types of ep boring.
But that was until I watch the ending and they ask the vice president join their little rebellion and we learn that it a rebellion, it just made the ep seem drawn out to that point, way to dawn out for me, with a lot of scenes that really did not really add to the story. Given 8 or so episodes I want more story.

Rewriting the ending personally I would of Adarma and Starbuck knowing about this impending rebellion and well everything, and reason they are allowing it to froster is because well with everyone contracting over throwing him, Roslin at least they not committing suicide or sulking around. This to me would of made far better ending,. I think should of resolve the whole jump drive thing one way or another instead leaving us hanging. I also hated how Adarma faked the whole communication intercept thing personally he a fall if he has not been spying on the vice president.

Also I was disappointed about some cgi, they seem to me poorer than previous seasons, I know they been ask to save cash but i would not thought it be at the expense of quality.

7/10, and reason it getting that high is because I did not full asleep through the episode.

Now my one hope for this story line is Baltar, I so hope we see him change permanently he does seem bored with his messiah, I guest even he gotten bored with sex on a plate. It be great to see his followers seizing back the ship and then handing it over to Adama, with a speech telling Adarma, telling him he did it because he saw what happen last time the fleet was under different leadership. Then Baltar should get shot in the back and die in Adarma arms.

Whole I am now thinking Adarma is the leader dyeing, and he going tp leave them to their salvation, the real earth, He will then go down destroying the base stars that followed them their in a huge battle, where everyone on the Galactica dies, then we left to wonder whether they did enough to save their knew home.

L-S
January 24th, 2009, 02:34 PM
Interview with (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/01/battlestar-galactica-ron-moore-disquiet-follows-my-soul.html) the Lord of Galactidorks:

Why did you need to establish that Nicky is not the Chief’s baby?

Well, we’re starting to sort of resolve some of the plot threads and provide answers to things and one of the questions was, “Is Hera the only hybrid, the only Cylon-human child, or not?” If Nicky was a Cylon-human child, what does that mean? Now there’s two of them. It was important to the mythology of the show that only Hera be the only one. We had always sort of said that.

So you had to sort of retrofit...

Yeah, we had to retrofit that. We knew that was going to be a problem back when we decided that Tyrol was a Cylon. We said, “OK, how are we going to deal with that?” And [someone] said, “Well, maybe at some point we just find out Tyrol’s not the father.” And we all kind of laughed. And then we said, “Actually, that’s a very elegant solution to it.” We just say, “Tyrol’s not the father,” and we move on.

And that’s kind of how the show is. We take these gambles, then we take time to make sure it fits in with what we’ve got. Or we try to at least address it and make it fit into what we’ve got, so the mosaic is still consistent.

[end quote]
.........

See? Crap catch-up show 'bible' writing. Very poopy, Star Trek level stuff.

ToasterOnFire
January 24th, 2009, 02:42 PM
Tory might have spared Nicky because she wasn't aware of the child's true parentage, much like how the original 7 cylons were not able to determine who were the final 5. Alternatively, her directive to protect the fleet may have applied to an innocent, unaware child and not to Cally, who knew the identity of the final 4 and was therefore seen as a threat.

The revealed parentage makes sense to me actually, considering how much emphasis was placed on Hera and the opera house and hardly a peep with Nicky even though they were thought to both be hybrids. Nicky ended up being a red herring.

Mirel
January 24th, 2009, 02:50 PM
http://www.galactica-science.com/battlestar/blog/episodes/a-disquiet-follows-my-soul/

http://i42.tinypic.com/eb3srp.jpg

Everyone knows how the Ursa Major, or the Great Bear looks like when you view the nightsky :)

OT:
Now I glanced at wikipedia but I thought that the constellation in that pic was the Minor, and I'm not that familiar with the Major. They kinda look alike

L-S
January 24th, 2009, 02:56 PM
cast list for final episode:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993922/

BobBot
January 24th, 2009, 03:24 PM
They thing you have to keep in mind about him wanting the Presidency or any position of power is what he's done with that power. He's using the power he's already got to help the people that put him there and do what they want.

If anything, Adama has been the one wearing the "decider" label. Like putting the entire fleet at risk just to get Starbuck back when they had issues over Zack. He also had a little mutiny of his own once... the only difference is that he wasn't doing it because the people wanted it, he was doing it because he thought he knew best.

Zarek isn't helping the people, he's using his office as a way to get money and power. He is corrupt, that's why he believed Adama had information on him - if he wasn't corrupt, he would know there was nothing in the file. That's not in the people's interest, it's purely for selfish gain. What he does for the people is give them enough of what they want so that they keep him in power. Also, what the people want isn't necessarily what they need. Adama doesn't give the people what they want - that's not his job, his job is to keep them alive. To do that, they have to do what he tells them. If they refuse they have to be forced. What's the point of having a democracy if it gets everyone killed? Wouldn't it be better to be alive in a dictatorship than dead in a democracy? I believe so. Adama isn't against people having their say in how things are run, but he does expect obedience.

madk99
January 24th, 2009, 04:36 PM
And these people are acting like John Wayne just walked into the saloon every time she (Staruck) gets up. All Geata had to do was call her out and put her in her place.


I think people would be a lot more scared if John Wayne walked in. I mean, he's been dead for 20 years. Starbuck was only dead for 4 months.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 24th, 2009, 04:55 PM
Zarek isn't helping the people, he's using his office as a way to get money and power. He is corrupt, that's why he believed Adama had information on him - if he wasn't corrupt, he would know there was nothing in the file. That's not in the people's interest, it's purely for selfish gain. What he does for the people is give them enough of what they want so that they keep him in power. Also, what the people want isn't necessarily what they need. Adama doesn't give the people what they want - that's not his job, his job is to keep them alive. To do that, they have to do what he tells them. If they refuse they have to be forced. What's the point of having a democracy if it gets everyone killed? Wouldn't it be better to be alive in a dictatorship than dead in a democracy? I believe so. Adama isn't against people having their say in how things are run, but he does expect obedience.

"No" - Patrick Henry (I'm paraphrasing)

Shan Bruce Lee
January 24th, 2009, 05:00 PM
http://www.galactica-science.com/battlestar/blog/episodes/a-disquiet-follows-my-soul/

http://i42.tinypic.com/eb3srp.jpg

Everyone knows how the Ursa Major, or the Great Bear looks like when you view the nightsky :)

OT:
Now I glanced at wikipedia but I thought that the constellation in that pic was the Minor, and I'm not that familiar with the Major. They kinda look alike

You'd have to add a lot of stars to the first pic (and move around the ones that are there) to make it look like the second. I think going a little too far just to prove it's the real earth anyway. They said it was, that's all you really need.

dec55
January 24th, 2009, 05:18 PM
Dull? Have we been watching the same show. It wasn't dull at all...I guess you would also think "Frost/Nixon" as dull am I right?


From the commercials the guy that did Nixon was really fake, he didn't look and didn't even sound like Nixon. It was just another old hippie version of a imaginary Nixon....they should
have done a movie on the Clinton white house...now that would be scary..

dec55
January 24th, 2009, 05:22 PM
Interview with (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/01/battlestar-galactica-ron-moore-disquiet-follows-my-soul.html) the Lord of Galactidorks:

Why did you need to establish that Nicky is not the Chief’s baby?

Well, we’re starting to sort of resolve some of the plot threads and provide answers to things and one of the questions was, “Is Hera the only hybrid, the only Cylon-human child, or not?” If Nicky was a Cylon-human child, what does that mean? Now there’s two of them. It was important to the mythology of the show that only Hera be the only one. We had always sort of said that.

So you had to sort of retrofit...

Yeah, we had to retrofit that. We knew that was going to be a problem back when we decided that Tyrol was a Cylon. We said, “OK, how are we going to deal with that?” And [someone] said, “Well, maybe at some point we just find out Tyrol’s not the father.” And we all kind of laughed. And then we said, “Actually, that’s a very elegant solution to it.” We just say, “Tyrol’s not the father,” and we move on.

And that’s kind of how the show is. We take these gambles, then we take time to make sure it fits in with what we’ve got. Or we try to at least address it and make it fit into what we’ve got, so the mosaic is still consistent.

[end quote]
.........
See? Crap catch-up show 'bible' writing. Very poopy, Star Trek level stuff.

Wooohooo....knew Hera was special...

LoneStar1836
January 24th, 2009, 06:28 PM
You're plugging plot holes for the writers - that's not your job - that's theirs to do by writing honestly...Well if you think so, but I don't.

I don't see Cally's death as a plot hole. I didn't back then, and I don't now with the new revelation that Cally knew that Nick was not Tyrol's.

I was merely pointing out that in real life people kill their own children for twisted reasons...and generally those people are not in a sane state of mind when they do it. Cally was planning on killing Nick for some reason really only know to her, but I can speculate on possible motivations and not need to rely on the writers to spell it out in black and white as to why she took Nick into the airlock with her because I can find it perfectly believable that she would do it even knowing the kid wasn't part Cylon.



Tory, the hot Hindu Cylon, would have happily disposed of both human mommy and child to protect her secret in the fleet (her secret golem-cylon identity), no? What would've stopped her? You've lost me there. :S

Tory knew what we knew at the time...the kid was Tyrol's. Tyrol being a Cylon and all...well you'd want to not airlock the half Cylon child just because he's one of you. I'd think that would be reason enough for her to talk Cally into backing down so you could send a right hook her way, take the child, and airlock the threat.

So what if the kid turned out not to be the Chief's. Didn't make the impact of her death any less meaningful. I mean Cally was going to off herself and the kid without Tory's help anyway. Doesn't matter to me that we now know that Nick was Hot Dog's kid, and she still intended to kill Nick anyway in her deranged mental state. Tory intervened, saved Nick, and then murdered Cally. Who the kid's biological father is has no impact on any of that for me.

I never really thought she was intending to kill Nick because he was half Cylon anyway, but that's just me. Her walking into that airlock was more about herself than Nick. Apparently other people saw that as part of her motivation though.



We've lost that thread, it's been subsumed in the writing of the 'galactica bible' - the notion that the promises of the Uber-Six we first knew in Baltar's head, regarding 'their child' (she and Baltar's), being born through Sharon and Helo...

Look, it's a crap-up in the writing - no reason to not have a dozen mixed-lineage kids. No reason to say that Baltar's dreams were absolutely accurate or universal - they drove him to whatever purposes - the grounding of the fleet on New Caprica, the nuclear annihilation of the pretty forest ship (Cloud 9), and his conversion to One-God-ism.

They just got stuck in writer's cramp, a leg-lock, an overly literal position that they, or Moore, or whomever, thought they had to uphold.

Or, what's the more interesting question that comes out of the multiple pairings of Cylon and human, or Cylon and 'replicant'-Cylon?

The deeper questions go to - 'what is humanity? what is it to feel, to dream, to be alive, to be conscious? To have a conscience? To be a spiritual entity?'

I dislike the slavish attention to internal 'prophecy' over honest character development.
There is no reason to have a dozen mixed-lineage kids. :P The story was not conceived that way, and the writers have chosen to stay focused on their original concept of having Hera be the special one. And I for one am fine with that.

I'm not exactly sure what kind of character development of having another hybrid kid brings to the story that you don't already get.

The show already explores all those deeper questions you posed without the aid of Nick's existence.


Tory, the replicant, threw poor, wane, passive-aggressive Cally into space, and not her child - because the Child was a Cylon, and Tory the Cylon felt this to be so, or the child would've joined the mother.

The character had no relationship with any other male, was intensely, suicidally loyal to the 'replicant'-Chief, to the point of being beaten brutally by him - and wanting more. Not a 'cheating wife' by any previous measure - it was just written in as a plot convenience.

The reason the writers have altered this internal logical reality, is to adhere to an oppositional preconceived and determined notion of the number of 'mixed' children, and the ultimate progression or position of the chief's character...

Poor Cally. To die for bad writing. And among so much good writing!Tory is not a Cylon detector. She only knew what everyone else knew at the time (excluding our favorite cancer stick smoking doctor)...that Nick was Tyrol's.

Cally was pregnant before they got married so she wasn't exactly obligated to the Chief. Just because she had strong feelings for him prior to them getting together, doesn't preclude her from sleeping around with some other guy. Though I figure the thing with Hot Dog was probably a one night thing. Not out of the realm of possibility, imo.

Was it a cheap and easy fix to not having to deal with Nick as a hybrid? Sure. But I think it focuses the story more. Now we don't have that loose end out there that needs an answer and needs to fit in with the larger picture. They just have Helo and Athena's kid to have to deal with...since Six isn't having hers anytime soon. Keeps the story focused and fits with their original idea/plan from season one. Besides if they all turn out to be Cylons, then it really won't matter. :P

the fifth man
January 24th, 2009, 06:43 PM
Actually, I enjoyed this episode even more after watching it again tonight. Was it a slower BSG episode - Yes. Was it boring?- NO.

BobBot
January 24th, 2009, 06:47 PM
"No" - Patrick Henry (I'm paraphrasing)

Okay, that's your opinion. But remember, it's your opinion and not fact.

The show is very good at not being black-and-white. No one is 'good' or 'bad', sometimes people do things that are interpreted as being beneficial, sometimes they do things that are seen as detrimental. Adama is working to one goal: keep the remaining humans alive. If he has to take over the government to do so, that to me is the correct action. Without order, the human race cannot survive - better for a few democrats to commit suicide upon hearing Adama has seized control than for the whole race to be lost. But on top of that, the civil discord and the increased suicides, it's not going to be long before there is no human left alive in the fleet...

LoneStar1836
January 24th, 2009, 06:48 PM
Wow, the tables have turned. Folks are now questioning BSG's plotholes. Wow this is all so familar. :p
It's not like plot hole questioning is something foreign to the BSG forum here on GW. ;)

They are just not something that a lot of people consider to be jarring in ever single episode.


BTW, I don't see any plot hole. So I don't know what you are on about. :P

Briangate78
January 24th, 2009, 06:57 PM
It's not like plot hole questioning is something foreign to the BSG forum here on GW. ;)

They are just not something that a lot of people consider to be jarring in ever single episode.


BTW, I don't see any plot hole. So I don't know what you are on about. :P

I am just tired of people in general, not this forum but in general putting BSG on such a high platform and that it is flawless. It is not, no show is flawless. You should read SyFYportal. Any other show compared to BSG is crap. :rolleyes:

My opinion, it was a plothole. Cally would of no way tried to kill her baby if she knew the father was not a Cylon. But that is my opinion.

LoneStar1836
January 24th, 2009, 07:39 PM
^^^^Well I don't read SyFYportal with any kind of regularity. :) Don'tcha know journalism (if you can still call it that) is rarely fair and balanced these days. ;)




The show is very good at not being black-and-white. No one is 'good' or 'bad', sometimes people do things that are interpreted as being beneficial, sometimes they do things that are seen as detrimental. Adama is working to one goal: keep the remaining humans alive. If he has to take over the government to do so, that to me is the correct action. Without order, the human race cannot survive - better for a few democrats to commit suicide upon hearing Adama has seized control than for the whole race to be lost. But on top of that, the civil discord and the increased suicides, it's not going to be long before there is no human left alive in the fleet...That's basically how I felt back when Roslin stabbed Adama in the back (by talking Starbuck into going after the arrow) and split the fleet. I was all for the dictator I knew, especially since he was the one with the military and the big ship with all the guns.

Having a vote and representation in the Quorum wasn't exactly going to protect me when a Cylon basestar showed up.


So once again I am on the side of Adama in this episode because I still want that military protection since Cavil's group is still out there somewhere. As horrible as it sounds that now your head military man wants to team up with a faction of the enemy for the benefit of the fleet, it's actually the more sound idea considering what they are offering (jump drive upgrades). And assuming they will only get one member on the Quorum, then they won't be able to set policy and take over the government. Can you completely trust them? No, but then they can't completely trust you either.

I mean I can completely see the other side of the coin because these Cylons murdered billions, destroyed your life, and chased you down in a attempt to finish the job. And now you are just supposed to accept them into the fleet as Colonial citizens and afford them the same civil rights and military protections.



And to draw from present day real life, this is similar to what the US military did in Iraq...they teamed up with Sunnis in Anbar to fight the most extreme AQ terrorist factions. These were the same local Sunni militia groups that had been attacking and killing American soldiers and civilian contractors all that time until they decided that the foreign AQ terrorists were not in their best interest either. So American soldiers were out patrolling side by side with people who had recently tried to kill them. I'm sure similar events have happened throughout history, but the Iraq example is the most recent and comes to mind first.

fwupow
January 24th, 2009, 09:31 PM
Removal of baby Nick as a cylon hybrid was a big question resolved.

I stand corrected. I guess it just wasn't a concern of mine.

I regard to babies. I'm thinking that Tigh and #6's baby will be a boy and named Zeus. He along with Hera will be the progenitors of all. They will be the Adam & Eve of the next cycle of life.

In Exodus pt1, an oracle tells a #3 that Hera was "wife and sister" of Zeus.

Hera will be sister in the sense that she will be raised by common parents (Baltar & #6) in a new beginning, perhaps on Kobol "the birthplace of us all".

Ok, I've lost my mind already. I had better go back to bed.

BG1
January 24th, 2009, 10:26 PM
Hello, I'm new here and recently watched all the BSGs from the beginning so I could watch the final episodes with the rest of the world. I don't have to tell you all how great it's been and I'm so glad I decided to give it a chance.

I wanted to share my thoughts on two issues I see coming up on these boards. The first being whether the "Earth" found in Revalations is "our Earth" and the second being whether Roslin is the dying leader. These two go hand in hand with each other.

To start off, writers of these type of shows with mysteries and big reveals often do things in a very "lawyerly" fashion. They will give you the impression that something is true or false. It is only an impression though and they have enough wiggle room to later tell you something along the lines of "ah, but that was your assumption based on what you saw/what we showed you but we never actually SAID that".

Prime example of this was the question posed to Mr Moore:

"That planet is Earth? We’re not going to find out, “Oh, there’s this other Earth over here...” This is the only Earth we’ll see?

They have found Earth. This is the Earth that the 13th Colony discovered, they christened it Earth. They found Earth. "

Did Mr Moore attend law school? He deftly answers the first part of the question while totally ignoring the second part. There is a Dublin in Ohio. The people who settled there christened it Dublin. If you were to go there and ask "did I find Dublin?" the answer is truthfully and correctly yes. If you ask "is this the only Dublin?" the answer is no, hence why he deliberately ignored the second part of the question. To top it off, they also deliberately obscure the continents of the wasted Earth from view from space while gratuitously showing the U.S. at the end of Crossroads. This is the "ah you assumed it was our Earth but if you look back we never actually showed you it was".

IMO he should have given that question a "no comment" and ask the writer to strike it from the interview because to me he gave away the whole thing right there. Another huge spoiler IMO is in the commercials for the final episodes. You see Roslin with the wig, glasses and suit yell "I'm coming after all of you!". This of course shows she is back in command and takes the suspense out of her current condition.

Thus Roslin is back in command, still dying, and "our Earth" is still out there waiting to be discovered.

This of course is just my opinion but having said that I believe it is painfully obvious.

Back40
January 24th, 2009, 10:51 PM
Hello, I'm new here and recently watched all the BSGs from the beginning so I could watch the final episodes with the rest of the world. I don't have to tell you all how great it's been and I'm so glad I decided to give it a chance.

I wanted to share my thoughts on two issues I see coming up on these boards. The first being whether the "Earth" found in Revalations is "our Earth" and the second being whether Roslin is the dying leader. These two go hand in hand with each other.

To start off, writers of these type of shows with mysteries and big reveals often do things in a very "lawyerly" fashion. They will give you the impression that something is true or false. It is only an impression though and they have enough wiggle room to later tell you something along the lines of "ah, but that was your assumption based on what you saw/what we showed you but we never actually SAID that".

Prime example of this was the question posed to Mr Moore:

"That planet is Earth? We’re not going to find out, “Oh, there’s this other Earth over here...” This is the only Earth we’ll see?

They have found Earth. This is the Earth that the 13th Colony discovered, they christened it Earth. They found Earth. "

Did Mr Moore attend law school? He deftly answers the first part of the question while totally ignoring the second part. There is a Dublin in Ohio. The people who settled there christened it Dublin. If you were to go there and ask "did I find Dublin?" the answer is truthfully and correctly yes. If you ask "is this the only Dublin?" the answer is no, hence why he deliberately ignored the second part of the question. To top it off, they also deliberately obscure the continents of the wasted Earth from view from space while gratuitously showing the U.S. at the end of Crossroads. This is the "ah you assumed it was our Earth but if you look back we never actually showed you it was".

IMO he should have given that question a "no comment" and ask the writer to strike it from the interview because to me he gave away the whole thing right there. Another huge spoiler IMO is in the commercials for the final episodes. You see Roslin with the wig, glasses and suit yell "I'm coming after all of you!". This of course shows she is back in command and takes the suspense out of her current condition.

Thus Roslin is back in command, still dying, and "our Earth" is still out there waiting to be discovered.

This of course is just my opinion but having said that I believe it is painfully obvious.

Welcome to the forum! My post from the (411) Sometimes a Great Notion thread. An alternative solution - Earth is really Earth, but it is not the "new homeland" of the prophecy.


This has probably been mentioned in another thread somewhere, but thought I would bring it up here, seeing as Laura has now had her book-burning party with the Pythian prophecies.

Maybe it's just my faulty memory, but I don't remember ever hearing in any of the quotes from the Pythian prophecies that the Dying Leader would lead the people to Earth. I remember quotes that the Thirteenth Tribe relocated on Earth after the exodus, I remember quotes regarding the instructions for getting to Earth, but I don't remember a quote about the people being lead to Earth.

What I DO remember is the following quote: And the Lords anointed a leader to guide the caravan of the heavens to their new homeland. "New homeland". Not "Earth". Up to now, the prophecies have been accurate. If Laura Roslin is the Dying Leader, then they may have misinterpreted the prophecy as new homeland = Earth. Which would explain why she was still alive when they reached it; "And the Leader suffered a wasting illness and would not live to enter the new land". Either that or the planet they reached is NOT Earth at all.

So maybe the Dying Leader's role is not yet finished and Laura needs to dig up another copy of the prophecies. ;)

BobBot
January 24th, 2009, 11:36 PM
And to draw from present day real life, this is similar to what the US military did in Iraq...they teamed up with Sunnis in Anbar to fight the most extreme AQ terrorist factions. These were the same local Sunni militia groups that had been attacking and killing American soldiers and civilian contractors all that time until they decided that the foreign AQ terrorists were not in their best interest either. So American soldiers were out patrolling side by side with people who had recently tried to kill them. I'm sure similar events have happened throughout history, but the Iraq example is the most recent and comes to mind first.

Yes, exactly. Though let's not forget the other side of the coin - America trained a certain Osama bin Laden in guerrilla warfare so he could fight the Soviets, and look how that turned out when America turned their backs on the fighters once the Soviet Union collapsed.:( It's all going to end in tears no matter what choices Adama makes.

Night Marshal
January 25th, 2009, 04:24 AM
My biggest issues are Adama illness and Hotdog fatherhood. They just come out of left field and while if they had planned out the show better rather than the "organic" writing Ron Moore loves so much you could have set these things up and they wouldn't feel so random.

As to the episode itself. What it lacks is focus plan and simple there is nothing really driving the plot aside from the need to set things up. As other have said if you had put the tillum ship jumping away at the start of the episode and created that drama then bring Zarick over to Galactica, set up the coup and the vote by the Quorum. To be honest not know anything of what is to come this really seems to be a case of bad editing because the parts are there but what shows up doesn't seem to work all that well. Oh well at least they realized they couldn't as dark as last week two weeks in a row.

Replicator Todd
January 25th, 2009, 07:20 AM
I like how a line has been made between people for and agianst the Cylon-Human Alliance, a war would deplete what is left of the human race! But it looks like that might not stop them.

huntress
January 25th, 2009, 07:22 AM
From the commercials the guy that did Nixon was really fake, he didn't look and didn't even sound like Nixon. It was just another old hippie version of a imaginary Nixon....they should
have done a movie on the Clinton white house...now that would be scary..

Sorry for going OT but the stupidity of this post just amazes me. So you have seen a commercial on the telly and declare are movie as crap without having seen it? Oh boy..... -_-

huntress
January 25th, 2009, 07:28 AM
Did Mr Moore attend law school?

Welcome BG1 to GateWorld. I hope you like it here and to answer your question - no he didn't. He studied political science at Cornell ;)

Skydiver
January 25th, 2009, 10:30 AM
nudges people back on the topic :)

Holy_devil
January 25th, 2009, 11:23 AM
Where's the fraking continuity?:mad:

I like this episode but the writers don’t follow continuity, first season show the need to save natural resources on a starship but non other that the Commander of the fleet lets the water run in the shower. Come on, what kind of idiot wrote this scene.
No wonder scifi purists hate the show.
No wonder ratings drop since 2nd season.
How many people watch the show before it airs on tv and none of them was bothered with Adama wasting water down the drain. Did I miss an episode when they built a recycling water filter with cylon tech to just waste water like that?

Lucario
January 25th, 2009, 11:37 AM
What can I say about Friday's episode.
Slow but interesting: Bitterness is filling the crew especially Gaeta, which isn't surprising considering what the character has been through, nearlying being airlocked for collaborating with the cylons which he didn't he actually helped the rebels, this is one of the reason he is bitter at Kara. Being shot by a Sam who turned out to be a Cylon and losing his leg, then Dee's Suicide. The beginning scene pretty much set up the ending Gaeta. Seeing the Sonagram at the beginning was interesting, you can tell that Cottle's assisant isn't to thrilled with the Cylons, and she wanted to help the other people there rather than be helping with the Sonagram. Moving on, the scene with the Admiral and some of the crew on whether to use Cylon technology, you can tell there that Gaeta was losing his respect for the Admrial, hince he wasn't calling him "Sir" there was also the fact that Tyrol was bitter as well. Moving on, the scene where Tyrol found out that he wasn't the father to Nikki, in some ways this wasn't surprising to me, I am not sure why but also in some ways it didn't sit with me to well, I don't the though of Cally sleeping around, didn't seem to fit the character in my opinion, also leaves open that if she knew that Tyrol wasn't the father then why they to air lock the kid along with her, I suppose she didn't want the kid to go with Tyrol also there was the fact that she wasn't really thinking straight due to the meds that she was taking, it does leave some things open. Hotdog the father that was shocking to me, although I didn't under stand why Tyrol went and beat the living crap out of the Hotdog. I wouldn't say that this revealation severed the Tyrol's link to humanity, he could help Hotdog care for the kid but I don't see that happening. Also where the heck is Anders and Tory? How is the relation ship between Kara and Anders now that she knows he is a Cylon? I guess this will either be played later or not at all. The president scene, well that as well wasn't surprising, she has lost all faith as well, the fact that she led people to Earth and it was nothing more but a nuclear wasteland the fact it was also a Cylon Colony sent her over the edge. I guess she doesn't care on whether or not she dies anymore. The Zarak sequence considering the fact that most of the fleet has lost faith after finding Earth, it is not surprising at all that they are rebeling, the Tylium ship jumping away, leaving the fleet basically strandard in some ways showed the power that the people had, One could argue that the Tylium ship has the most power over the fleet, thus if it jumped away it basically just left the fleet stranded. Moving backwards back to the scene between Gaeta and Kara, discussing that happened between the two in the past, it was a long time coming, this scene bascially set up the breaking point for Gaeta's bitterness. The scene between Zarak and Adama, interesting, it is not surprising that Adama would try to in some ways blackmail Zarak, but I knew that Zarak wouldn't roll over that easy, after he gave the coordinates to the Tylium ship, the last scene between Gaeta and Zarak, basically set up the next episode, I knew eventually there would be a revolt on the Galaticia, it was just a matter of when. Finding Earth was the breaking point, the fleet put all their hope in finding this one planet, only to find it in the state it was in bascially shattered just about everyone hope. I am interesting to see happens in next weeks episode. Sure this episode was slow but to me it was quite interesting, because it set up sides which we will see next Friday.

rarocks24
January 25th, 2009, 11:45 AM
I did notice a major plothole. Wouldn't Gaeta, along with the rest of the fleet, know about Anders' past? I mean, he was the leader of the Resistance. So was Tigh and Tyrol. I understand why they wrote it that way, but Kara should have spoke out about Anders sacrifice for humanity back on Caprica/New Caprica. I would have also attacked Gaeta about his assistance to Gaius Baltar, and said that he did too little. Embarrass him to prevent an insurrection.

Briangate78
January 25th, 2009, 02:00 PM
I rewatched the ep again and it was better the 2nd time. I actually never laughed that much in a BSG ep. This had some nice comic relief to it. So we went from one of the darkest eps of the series to likely one of the lighest eps. That is fine, next ep looks really good!!!

Funniest line of BSG...

"Sometimes I really hate this job" ~ Admiral Adama :p

Skydiver
January 25th, 2009, 02:16 PM
that kind of humor is the kind of humor that i like in a show...ironic, quippy...things that a real person might say.

in thier case, it was gallows humor, people dealing as best they could and using irony and humor to simply deal

I did laugh out loud a few times while i watched it, chuckled a few others enjoyed it, even as much as it was a 'boring but necessary info dump' of an episode (not that i found it boring but that has been a common crit.)

into every arc, some setup must fall

ToasterOnFire
January 25th, 2009, 02:40 PM
I laughed when Cottle gave Tigh a cigarette. :D

I thought Gaeta was really OTT with Starbuck, I mean if he wanted to whine about Anders then he should have gone off and whined at Anders. But someone speculated that he acted like such a jerk to Starbuck in front of everyone in order to weed out any possible cylon sympathizers. That way when he ordered the door closed at the end he was more likely to talk to people interested in a rebellion.

"Scifi purists", lol.

Arative
January 25th, 2009, 02:44 PM
Where's the fraking continuity?:mad:

I like this episode but the writers don’t follow continuity, first season show the need to save natural resources on a starship but non other that the Commander of the fleet lets the water run in the shower. Come on, what kind of idiot wrote this scene.
No wonder scifi purists hate the show.
No wonder ratings drop since 2nd season.
How many people watch the show before it airs on tv and none of them was bothered with Adama wasting water down the drain. Did I miss an episode when they built a recycling water filter with cylon tech to just waste water like that?

Maybe you forgot the 2nd episode of season 1, Water. The water recycling aboard Galatica is nearly 100% and other ships need to dock with Galatica to replenish supplies.. You really shouldn't call other people idiots without having all the facts.

Back40
January 25th, 2009, 03:32 PM
You really shouldn't call other people idiots without having all the facts.

So say we all!!!

Back40
January 25th, 2009, 04:13 PM
The president scene, well that as well wasn't surprising, she has lost all faith as well, the fact that she led people to Earth and it was nothing more but a nuclear wasteland the fact it was also a Cylon Colony sent her over the edge. I guess she doesn't care on whether or not she dies anymore.

I'd agree with the first part, that she has lost faith in who or what she thought she was, that (for the time being, at least) she no longer feels that she can lead the people. That role is, in her mind, finished for her.

The second part I disagree with. Firstly, she IS dying, the cancer has already won the war and all they were doing with the chemo (Doloxin) treatments was to try to buy her more time.

When you are facing terminal cancer, you have to make a decision between quality of life and quantity of life - you rarely get both. While they were on the road to Earth, she chose quantity of life and took the chemo treatments (and the persistent nausea, vomiting, weakness and tiredness that goes with it) in order to give her more time to guide the "caravan of the heavens to their new homeland".

Now that that journey has (apparently) ended, she has chosen quality of life and stopped the chemo treatments. It will probably be a much shorter life, but much more comfortable without the sickness. For a time, she will feel much better, have more energy and will have a chance to enjoy what's left of her life in her "other role", namely as Adama's friend, partner and lover.

IMHO, this isn't about NOT caring at all, it's just the opposite. She'll trade off having more time with this man she has come to love for having more to give him while she's there, and THAT is a decision that is made out of and for love. She did everything but hit him over the head with that message in the speech she made to him when she was jogging, and he got the message, loud and clear. :)

Skydiver
January 25th, 2009, 04:53 PM
it is a tough choice with chemo and sometimes boils down to

2 months feeling pretty good for most of it, just a little pain
5 months, sick and tossing your cookies and losing your hair as the chemo poisons y our body

(just example numbers of course)

and others choose option three

put your affairs in order and end it on your own terms in your own way

Back40
January 25th, 2009, 05:07 PM
and others choose option three

put your affairs in order and end it on your own terms in your own way

True, but for someone who has something or someone to live for, option three is usually made when option one (quality of life) is no longer possible, e.g. the pain can no longer be controlled and there is no quality of life left. For others, option three becomes attractive if they simply have nothing left to live for to start off with as there is little point in prolonging an already empty life.

Fjord
January 25th, 2009, 05:07 PM
I stand corrected. I guess it just wasn't a concern of mine.

I regard to babies. I'm thinking that Tigh and #6's baby will be a boy and named Zeus. He along with Hera will be the progenitors of all. They will be the Adam & Eve of the next cycle of life.

In Exodus pt1, an oracle tells a #3 that Hera was "wife and sister" of Zeus.

Hera will be sister in the sense that she will be raised by common parents (Baltar & #6) in a new beginning, perhaps on Kobol "the birthplace of us all".

Ok, I've lost my mind already. I had better go back to bed.

Actually that theory sounds really good.....maybe we will see more of the new cycle has the season porgresses

Corona
January 25th, 2009, 05:08 PM
I spotted the shower scene and also had a negative reaction on the waste.

Even if you recycle 100%, there is still an energy deficit required to do so. So while Adama wasn't wasting water, he was wasting fuel.

You never know when the fuel processing ship mutinees. Maybe next episode?

the fifth man
January 25th, 2009, 05:19 PM
I rewatched the ep again and it was better the 2nd time. I actually never laughed that much in a BSG ep. This had some nice comic relief to it. So we went from one of the darkest eps of the series to likely one of the lighest eps. That is fine, next ep looks really good!!!

Funniest line of BSG...

"Sometimes I really hate this job" ~ Admiral Adama :p

Both my Dad and I cracked up when he said that. That was a great line.:D

LoneStar1836
January 25th, 2009, 05:29 PM
Yes, exactly. Though let's not forget the other side of the coin - America trained a certain Osama bin Laden in guerrilla warfare so he could fight the Soviets, and look how that turned out when America turned their backs on the fighters once the Soviet Union collapsed.:( It's all going to end in tears no matter what choices Adama makes.Agreed. It's about to get bloody. Probably the worst internal conflict the fleet has had to face.


I laughed when Cottle gave Tigh a cigarette. :DA congratulatory cigar cig. :D And people say there is no humor on BSG....


What can I say about Friday's episode.
Slow but interesting: Bitterness is filling the crew especially Gaeta, which isn't surprising considering what the character has been through, nearlying being airlocked for collaborating with the cylons which he didn't he actually helped the rebels, this is one of the reason he is bitter at Kara. Being shot by a Sam who turned out to be a Cylon and losing his leg, then Dee's Suicide. The beginning scene pretty much set up the ending Gaeta.

Seeing the Sonagram at the beginning was interesting, you can tell that Cottle's assisant isn't to thrilled with the Cylons, and she wanted to help the other people there rather than be helping with the Sonagram.

Moving on, the scene with the Admiral and some of the crew on whether to use Cylon technology, you can tell there that Gaeta was losing his respect for the Admrial, hince he wasn't calling him "Sir" there was also the fact that Tyrol was bitter as well.

Moving on, the scene where Tyrol found out that he wasn't the father to Nikki, in some ways this wasn't surprising to me, I am not sure why but also in some ways it didn't sit with me to well, I don't the though of Cally sleeping around, didn't seem to fit the character in my opinion, also leaves open that if she knew that Tyrol wasn't the father then why they to air lock the kid along with her, I suppose she didn't want the kid to go with Tyrol also there was the fact that she wasn't really thinking straight due to the meds that she was taking, it does leave some things open. Hotdog the father that was shocking to me, although I didn't under stand why Tyrol went and beat the living crap out of the Hotdog. I wouldn't say that this revealation severed the Tyrol's link to humanity, he could help Hotdog care for the kid but I don't see that happening.

Also where the heck is Anders and Tory? How is the relation ship between Kara and Anders now that she knows he is a Cylon? I guess this will either be played later or not at all.

The president scene, well that as well wasn't surprising, she has lost all faith as well, the fact that she led people to Earth and it was nothing more but a nuclear wasteland the fact it was also a Cylon Colony sent her over the edge. I guess she doesn't care on whether or not she dies anymore.

The Zarak sequence considering the fact that most of the fleet has lost faith after finding Earth, it is not surprising at all that they are rebeling, the Tylium ship jumping away, leaving the fleet basically strandard in some ways showed the power that the people had, One could argue that the Tylium ship has the most power over the fleet, thus if it jumped away it basically just left the fleet stranded.

Moving backwards back to the scene between Gaeta and Kara, discussing that happened between the two in the past, it was a long time coming, this scene bascially set up the breaking point for Gaeta's bitterness.

The scene between Zarak and Adama, interesting, it is not surprising that Adama would try to in some ways blackmail Zarak, but I knew that Zarak wouldn't roll over that easy, after he gave the coordinates to the Tylium ship, the last scene between Gaeta and Zarak, basically set up the next episode, I knew eventually there would be a revolt on the Galaticia, it was just a matter of when. Finding Earth was the breaking point, the fleet put all their hope in finding this one planet, only to find it in the state it was in bascially shattered just about everyone hope.

I am interesting to see happens in next weeks episode. Sure this episode was slow but to me it was quite interesting, because it set up sides which we will see next Friday.:eek: You might want to break up you original post into paragraphs otherwise people tend to skip over such posts because they are hard to read. :)


Anyway to the bold...Anders is in next week's ep. and I'm actually kind of worried for him based on the preview. :(

As far as Tory goes, I still hope she has a destiny with an airlock because I still dislike her. :D Though that will probably never happen because I don't see her leaving the basestar any time soon. Just because I dislike her, she will probably live on till the end. :mckay:



I'd agree with the first part, that she has lost faith in who or what she thought she was, that (for the time being, at least) she no longer feels that she can lead the people. That role is, in her mind, finished for her.

The second part I disagree with. Firstly, she IS dying, the cancer has already won the war and all they were doing with the chemo (Doloxin) treatments was to try to buy her more time.

When you are facing terminal cancer, you have to make a decision between quality of life and quantity of life - you rarely get both. While they were on the road to Earth, she chose quantity of life and took the chemo treatments (and the persistent nausea, vomiting, weakness and tiredness that goes with it) in order to give her more time to guide the "caravan of the heavens to their new homeland".

Now that that journey has (apparently) ended, she has chosen quality of life and stopped the chemo treatments. It will probably be a much shorter life, but much more comfortable without the sickness. For a time, she will feel much better, have more energy and will have a chance to enjoy what's left of her life in her "other role", namely as Adama's friend, partner and lover.

IMHO, this isn't about NOT caring at all, it's just the opposite. She'll trade off having more time with this man she has come to love for having more to give him while she's there, and THAT is a decision that is made out of and for love. She did everything but hit him over the head with that message in the speech she made to him when she was jogging, and he got the message, loud and clear. :)Great post and I completely agree with your assessment.

Skydiver
January 25th, 2009, 05:38 PM
True, but for someone who has something or someone to live for, option three is usually made when option one (quality of life) is no longer possible, e.g. the pain can no longer be controlled and there is no quality of life left. For others, option three becomes attractive if they simply have nothing left to live for to start off with as there is little point in prolonging an already empty life.
or, to some, option 3 is one last ditch effort to have control.

ie: i'm not gonna get sick and pathetic and waste away in a bed, i'm gonna do it my way.

other times it's 'if i do this now then my family isn't saddled with massive medical bills as i die'

there's a dozen + different rationales.

ultimately, on the show, roslyn is choosing to not fight and be sick to prolong her life, she's gonna enjoy what pleasures she has left in the time she has left and stop fighting the inevitable

Rac80
January 25th, 2009, 05:40 PM
Well, I LOVED the episode, and I thought tons of stuff happened.

Adama and Roslin were awesomely adorable!

Nicky is Hotdog's son? WTF? (did Hotdog and Cally ever share a scene?) Then again, that wraps up a dangling plot point so we can move on to awesomer stuff, so no complaints there.

Best. Line. Ever. "I need a drink." I love Tigh. And Tigh and Caprica holding hands? A bit surreal..... Glad to see the awesome medic back.

And GAETA leading the uprising on Galactica!? Oh no! I adore Gaeta! :( Poor guy can't come out of this well.

Baltar needs to do something besides preach. But maybe he and his followers will be a deciding force during the uprising.

Love the random details about the trouble on Galactca, garbage in the corridor, a civillian being arrested in the background.....Zarek seems lucky to get a nice big cell all to himself. ;)

Hubby and I were amazed at how spacious the cells on the galactica are, I would think smaller would be more effficient.
I think it is great that Gaeta has grown a set, he needed to! hooray for the rebellion.
baltar does something besides preach... he gets a lot of "action" ;) (although for the life of me I don't see the attraction :S)

<snipped for size>

And.....really did NOT need to see Bill and Laura in bed together. :S(*tries to shake image from mind*)
Like walking in your parents *gets a nervous twitch from 30 years ago :S*

Gaeta, more than most, has good reason to hate the old and the new "breed" of cylons. After all the Sharon model he was intimate with on Carprica had behaved badly in the interim Webisodes; Anders, one of the Final Five, had caused him to lose his leg, he was almost airlocked himself by Saul Tigh--nowhere has he experienced a Cylon he could trust, much less respect.

<snipped for size>

Starbuck is just insufferable. Rosyln's despair is understandable, but what keeps Starbuck going ?

Pure spite! that's my theory oh and that she is count Iblis.
I agree with you about Gaeta, totally understandable.

This episodes one of the things that I don't like about Galactica. It's too slow and dull, and even on top of that, the people in the fleet, and the viewers just can't get a break from the constant depressing moments one after another.

I honestly think the direction Moore's going in is too unrealistic. The Quorum seem like a bunch of idiots. People aren't that stupid. <snipped for size>

Ever heard of the United States Congress????? around 535 of the biggest idiots on the planet!!!! (uh huh this bailout will help the little guy! :rolleyes:) oh yes people are that stupid , especially in a group --- it's called groupthink. :S

Skydiver
January 25th, 2009, 05:48 PM
you wanna see stupid?

Walmart on a Saturday afternoon :)

Seriously though, there is no shortage of stupid and lemming syndrome in the world. Why would the fleet be any different?

Back40
January 25th, 2009, 06:00 PM
ultimately, on the show, roslyn is choosing to not fight and be sick to prolong her life, she's gonna enjoy what pleasures she has left in the time she has left and stop fighting the inevitable

And I, for one, think she has certainly earned the right to do so. What should be VERY interesting to watch is what she does when and/or if her decision to withdraw from leading the people produces a threat to Bill.

Skydiver
January 25th, 2009, 06:13 PM
what she needs to do, and time will tell if she will do it, is officially resign and quit her job.

that's what she needs to do for the good of her people.

but can she really and truthfully let go?

Back40
January 25th, 2009, 06:36 PM
what she needs to do, and time will tell if she will do it, is officially resign and quit her job.

that's what she needs to do for the good of her people.

Yes, if she will not lead, she can't leave them in limbo.


but can she really and truthfully let go?

That's debatable, but I don't think so, not unless there was someone with more ability to lead them and even then it would be...difficult. I don't think you can spend 4 years (or however long it has been) immersed in and living for one thing and one thing only - namely saving the human race - and give it up just like that. Not really.

HAL2100
January 25th, 2009, 06:37 PM
Why is that we dissect every little thing - case in point the water in the shower scene? (At least we didn't see Mom & Dad in the shower...)

I just took it at face value and didn't write anything into it. I would call it just a shot showing the ho-hum's of a so-called-life after a major let down in life. For the record, I did run across an interview with Moore where he indicated that the script was the last one written before the strike and as such there were no writers on set during filming. Its entirely probable that it was done as something of a pick-up, unscripted, spur of the moment idea by the production crew in the natural course of filming without realizing the possible continuity issue.

Skydiver
January 25th, 2009, 06:45 PM
Yes, if she will not lead, she can't leave them in limbo.



That's debatable, but I don't think so, not unless there was someone with more ability to lead them and even then it would be...difficult. I don't think you can spend 4 years (or however long it has been) immersed in and living for one thing and one thing only - namely saving the human race - and give it up just like that. Not really.
i agree. i think she will want to 'have her cake and eat it too'.....not lead and let the VP do it so she can live out her remaing days and die the prez, rather than realize that, for the good of the fleet, if she's not gonna lead, she needs to quit. and if she's not gonna quit, she needs to lead.

I'm thinking the rebellion will shake her up a bit and reground her a little.

it'll give her a kick in the seat of the pants and end her little 'honeymoon'

Skydiver
January 25th, 2009, 06:46 PM
Why is that we dissect every little thing -

It's fandom. And it's what people do.

And, what fans do isn't precisely the topic of this thread. It's last friday's episode :)

cameron1
January 25th, 2009, 06:49 PM
[QUOTE=g.o.d;9630812]oh lord, they're at war, billions of humans were wiped out, Cavil's forces are still chasing them, Earth was a nuclear wasteland. What the heck do you mean it's too depresing? Of course it's depressing. They're not living in a fantasy world!


well, um, yeah, they are in a fantasy world...but a sad one, very sad

Back40
January 25th, 2009, 06:50 PM
Why is that we dissect every little thing - case in point the water in the shower scene?

Good question!


(At least we didn't see Mom & Dad in the shower...)

Speak for yourself! Some of us ancient things might have found that mighty interesting... ;)


(For the record, I did run across an interview with Moore where he indicated that the script was the last one written before the strike and as such there were no writers on set during filming. Its entirely probable that it was done as something of a pick-up, unscripted, spur of the moment idea by the production crew in the natural course of filming without realizing the possible continuity issue.

Uummm...I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe "Sometimes a Great Notion" was the last one written and was produced without writers on set.

And now that I've dissected everything in your last post.... :D

HAL2100
January 25th, 2009, 07:00 PM
you wanna see stupid?

Walmart on a Saturday afternoon :)

Seriously though, there is no shortage of stupid and lemming syndrome in the world. Why would the fleet be any different?

The ID-10-t virus is widespread. Its carriers are everywhere. Be on your guard as there is no cure once infected.

HAL2100
January 25th, 2009, 07:01 PM
Good question!



Speak for yourself! Some of us ancient things might have found that mighty interesting... ;)



Uummm...I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe "Sometimes a Great Notion" was the last one written and was produced without writers on set.

And now that I've dissected everything in your last post.... :D

Maybe I was wrong, but in the end are we going to start a civil war over a little water down the drain?

Back40
January 25th, 2009, 07:08 PM
Maybe I was wrong, but in the end are we going to start a civil war over a little water down the drain?

Well, personally speaking, I wouldn't.... :)

HAL2100
January 25th, 2009, 07:34 PM
Well, personally speaking, I wouldn't.... :)

Of course if the Centurions are as susceptible to water as the androids in Westword, every little drop has to count

LoneStar1836
January 25th, 2009, 07:57 PM
Why is that we dissect every little thing - case in point the water in the shower scene? (At least we didn't see Mom & Dad in the shower...)

I just took it at face value and didn't write anything into it. I would call it just a shot showing the ho-hum's of a so-called-life after a major let down in life. For the record, I did run across an interview with Moore where he indicated that the script was the last one written before the strike and as such there were no writers on set during filming. Its entirely probable that it was done as something of a pick-up, unscripted, spur of the moment idea by the production crew in the natural course of filming without realizing the possible continuity issue.Well me too as that was the feeling it was supposed to convey, but I did think to myself "Hey that's a waste of water, Admiral!" And hot water to boot. :D

Okay not really as it will just be recycled by Galactica's water plant, but well they're floating around in space with not a whole heck of a lot of resources so conservation is your friend so stupid stuff like that crosses your mind when you watch the show. :P

HAL2100
January 25th, 2009, 08:02 PM
Well me too as that was the feeling it was supposed to convey, but I did think to myself "Hey that's a waste of water, Admiral!" And hot water to boot. :D

Okay not really as it will just be recycled by Galactica's water plant, but well they're floating around in space with not a whole heck of a lot of resources so conservation is your friend so stupid stuff like that crosses your mind when you watch the show. :P

It might also be that after finding Earth such as it was that he just didn't give a frak about wasting water and decided that he was going to walk into an already hot shower as opposed to have to deal with the ever popular burst of cold from turning on the shower after you're in it.

Adama: Well, looks like we're all going to die anyways - either from starvation, killing ourselves or hunted down by Cavill - I think I've earned a nice, long hot shower. Maybe I'll make a pass at Rosalin later...

(Hmmm....I'm wondering if a Fun and Games thread poking fun at what all the humans are now thinking would be funny...)

anotherquestion
January 25th, 2009, 09:11 PM
I would just like to add a comment (or three) about the political acuity the Adama has developed over time.

In this episode:

He deftly avoided answering questions directly during the press conference without telling lies. Quite a contrast to his earlier efforts (after which he told Tigh "Remind me to never do that again").
He responded directly and forcefully to Zarek's earliest threat immediately after the press conference, refusing to be intimidated and threatening reprisals of his own (which did not take long to realize).
He realized the consequences of Zarek's ascendancy upon Rosyln's offer to resign, and gently opposed her taking that course of action.
He successfully bluffed Zarek into submission by threatening to leak his collusion in corruption, without the slightest bit of evidence. This was an especially perceptive ploy which was well executed for a couple of reasons. First, simply guessing that Zarek was involved in shady dealings, and, secondly, counting on Zarek to believe he had long been a target of an ongoing military investigation.
Adama rightly separated the military concerns from the political (Jump drive upgrades should be in the domain of a military decision, in this case). Compelling the upgrade by force was not an unreasonable position, given the dire circumstances. Unfortunately, Adama (and son) had not mastered the oratorical skills to make this military necessity palatable to the Quorum (once again leading to the question of whether or not a democracy is the best way for a declining civilization to organize itself in time of extreme crisis).
The admiral gave weight and credence the the Cylon demands for full participatory citizenship. This is particularly farsighted and compassionate, particularly given some of Adama's previous positions (the Tillium ship strike comes to mind). The rebel Cylons do face retaliation from the "Brother Cavil" led faction, but who knows how eager either side is to initiate a protracted conflict now that resurrection is out of the picture.


I think it has been fascinating to watch the push and pull of influence exerted by Adama, Tigh, Rosyln, Zarek, Baltar, and Apollo over each other and the rest of the Colonials during the course of the series. No one has been right all the time. When left to a vote, the people themselves have not chosen the wisest leader (Baltar on New Caprica), Zarek as VP.

Tigh (after Adama's attempted assassination) and Cain's draconian measures led to chaos and near disaster. Apollo's short term at the Presidency led to the first Cylon alliance that ended up revealing the diminished Earth (which, arguably, would have been better left undiscovered).

Zarek may seem an easy target of scorn, but he has been out of the loop for a lot of the main developments within the fleet lately. It would be interesting to know his role in the New Caprica occupation, too, assuming he was a part of the resistance effort.

Dusk
January 26th, 2009, 04:34 AM
Some wonderful character moments in this episode, and quality writing too. These events clearly take part after the "Face of the Enemy" Webisodes, as it was likely Gaeta's screw over by the 8 model that caused him to snap. I hope he goes down hard and fast. Kara's sharp remarks were priceless. And Baltar's turnaround comes as somewhat of a surprise, though the cult's sudden change of belief well reflects the typical 'follow the leader' approach by people.

The Quorum are 12 types of useless, indeed. Let's hope that when Cavill shows up a stray missile pierces Colonial One and rids us all of their ineptitude.

Who was the guy under heavy guard being escorted past Adama at around 18:20? It looked mildly significant.

Mongoletsi
January 26th, 2009, 05:40 AM
I regard to babies. I'm thinking that Tigh and #6's baby will be a boy and named Zeus. He along with Hera will be the progenitors of all. They will be the Adam & Eve of the next cycle of life.


A pair of animals isn't enough to do that. Apparently, you'd need a mixed pool of about 50,000 homo sapiens in order to have a stable enough gene pool for the continuation of our species.

Unless you believe certain fairy tales ;)


Hera will be sister in the sense that she will be raised by common parents (Baltar & #6) in a new beginning, perhaps on Kobol "the birthplace of us all".

I really don't imagine them going back to Kobol, unless the Cavil-led faction is dealt with. To be fair, I have no idea how the Cavilistas could possibly find The Fleet & Friend, or vice-versa; unless the Hybrids get involved.

What do you mean "common parents"? Do you mean Human & Cylon? That doesn't really make Hera & "Zeus" siblings. Or am I missing something?

Mongoletsi
January 26th, 2009, 05:49 AM
that's a Wikia. I don't trust this site a word and I've seen this theory before on some other forums.

Quite true but it does answer a great many things...have to at least given them some credit for plausibility.

After about 5 seconds of reading that link, I realised it to be the work of Fan Fic. Absolute rubbish, pure and simple.

Yes, it's plausible, in the sense that it wraps everything up and tells a nice story. But so does The Holy Bible and I personally don't find that particular book to be even slightly plausible.

That article doesn't fit with any of the mythology revealed so far in the show, nor anything TPTB have commented on.

Just Say No.

Mongoletsi
January 26th, 2009, 06:00 AM
I did notice a major plothole. Wouldn't Gaeta, along with the rest of the fleet, know about Anders' past? I mean, he was the leader of the Resistance. So was Tigh and Tyrol. I understand why they wrote it that way, but Kara should have spoke out about Anders sacrifice for humanity back on Caprica/New Caprica. I would have also attacked Gaeta about his assistance to Gaius Baltar, and said that he did too little. Embarrass him to prevent an insurrection.

I pondered that too. Gaeta would surely have known how vehmently anti-Cylon Tigh, Tyrol, Anders, and Foster were, and stuff like Tigh killing his missus for collaboration.

That to me is a big plot hole. Gaeta seems perfectly okay with Athena.

I guess he's just a bit frakked up.

Pic
January 26th, 2009, 06:44 AM
Gaeta seems perfectly okay with Athena.


I wouldn't be so sure. This may no longer be the case.



Also, I'm sure this has probably been mentioned and I've just lost the thread, but is anyone else wondering if perhaps the Admiral is the dying leader and not Laura? Or Lee (he seems to be emerging as a leader, especially since Baltar's trial)

Right now, Lee seems to be the only one maintaining any kind of sanity. Which means, of course, he'll probably crack next episode (and that's not spoilery as I really have no frakkin' clue & don't even watch trailers).

Also, Starbuck was going to tell Lee that she found herself & torched the evidence but didn't tell him because he mentioned Dee. So Lee doesn't know anything about that. Is that right?

Mongoletsi
January 26th, 2009, 06:51 AM
Yeah I've been thinking about that. But wasn't the Dying Leader meant to lead them to The Promised Land. Nothing in the prophecy detailed what state the promised land would be in :D

Skydiver
January 26th, 2009, 07:07 AM
the possibility of adama being the dying leader has occured to many people, especially after the obvious pill popping of this episode
and, the shot of him and 'mom' dying or stayig behind to die as the kids explore the promised land...is something i'd see this show doing

huntress
January 26th, 2009, 08:02 AM
the possibility of adama being the dying leader has occured to many people, especially after the obvious pill popping of this episode
and, the shot of him and 'mom' dying or stayig behind to die as the kids explore the promised land...is something i'd see this show doing

:nods: I can totally see that and I would welcome such an ending. Also Bill has stated that Laura is his all - the one person he can't live without. I actually think it would be a sort of happy end for him if he followed her. After her death there will be precious little for him to hang on to. Lee has his own life and has become a capable politician. i liked him as the interim president and I wouldn't be surprised if he took over the "family business" after mom and pop are gone.

Skydiver
January 26th, 2009, 08:22 AM
i seem to recall Moses, after doubting the spring, was told by god that he couldn't ever enter the promised land...so when they got there, he and his wife stayed outside, watched hte rest of the people go in, and were content.

their job was done and their mission accomplished and they didn't NEED to actually set foot in the promised land. it was good enough to be there and know that hte kids were safe and then they were ready to die

I'm seeing the same type of thing happening to adama and roslyn

L-S
January 26th, 2009, 09:50 AM
Was it a cheap and easy fix to not having to deal with Nick as a hybrid? Sure.

Thanks for re-making my point so succinctly!

L-S
January 26th, 2009, 10:01 AM
My biggest issues are Adama illness and Hotdog fatherhood. They just come out of left field and while if they had planned out the show better rather than the "organic" writing Ron Moore loves so much you could have set these things up and they wouldn't feel so random.


Right, it's an ad hoc solution. Moore says as much in his interview, which is posted somewhere on this thread... (Look in my posts, I cite it, or google for the episode title, and 'moore, interview').

What happened with poor Cally and her Cylon husband (but not father of her child??!!) came out of a two-fold process:

1. Organic development of 'the final five' as replicant/cylons being 'in the fleet.'

2. An unnecessarily slavish devotion to a very early idea about 'the chosen one' or golden child - a wildly boring and over-cooked idea, and if we're tracing mythology (either world myth or BSG myth), just not necessary.

The idea that there was one special child came about by peering into Baltar's head.

It's not stretch to say that what Baltar thought he knew was not the whole story or truth.

It's much more of a stretch - in fact, it breaks - to say that Cally got pregnant After she started a relationship with the Chief, but that she, according to Moore, was not 'cheating', and was not involved with the man that she was clearly in love with and involved with.

So, yup, total crap, and unnecessary, especially among such immensely interesting ideas, writing, shooting, editing, theater and performance as the show puts forward regularly.

L-S
January 26th, 2009, 10:17 AM
In regard to babies. I'm thinking that Tigh and #6's baby will be a boy and named Zeus. He along with Hera will be the progenitors of all. They will be the Adam & Eve of the next cycle of life.

In Exodus pt1, an oracle tells a #3 that Hera was "wife and sister" of Zeus.

Hera will be sister in the sense that she will be raised by common parents (Baltar & #6) in a new beginning, perhaps on Kobol "the birthplace of us all".

That's clever. That's 'eternal return' stuff. Mircea Eliade, Nietzsche, all Hindu philosophy - the endless cycle - the Indian (Vedic?) texts - (universes live, die, are reborn, and on).

(Interesting link (http://www.cycleoftime.com/articles_view.php?codArtigo=36))

Sort of a neat idea. Very confrontational, with present Theisms, of course.


i seem to recall Moses, after doubting the spring, was told by god that he couldn't ever enter the promised land...so when they got there, he and his wife stayed outside, watched hte rest of the people go in, and were content.

Oh, that Old Testament God, so capricious...so personally involved...

Well, as long as Moses and wife were content, as you say.

The FLOOD stories track through all Indo-European cultures, in various incarnations and inflections. A Google search will give more...

ShipperWriter
January 26th, 2009, 12:35 PM
the possibility of adama being the dying leader has occured to many people, especially after the obvious pill popping of this episode
and, the shot of him and 'mom' dying or stayig behind to die as the kids explore the promised land...is something i'd see this show doing

Hi, quick intro: I love BSG, Bill/Laura and Lee/Kara.

Anyhow:

I recently read somewhere that Adama popping pills was a brief thing, not a lasting disease or anything like that. I'll copy the article when I find it.

I'm a shipper, obviously, so I am really hoping that Bill and Laura both make it through the end. Hopeless romantic and all that ...

I got goosebumps when Six and Tigh were having the ultrasound done, and she said that the baby was the future of the Cylon race ... because correct me if I'm wrong, but all the human-Cylon wars started because the Cylons rebelled against their masters. And while there are some toasters that I would like to see bite the dust *cough* Anders & Cavil *cough* I somewhat pity the ones that recently found out they were Cylons ...

More later ... lurking at work ...

HAL2100
January 26th, 2009, 01:13 PM
Yeah I've been thinking about that. But wasn't the Dying Leader meant to lead them to The Promised Land. Nothing in the prophecy detailed what state the promised land would be in :D

But who ever said that Earth was the Promised Land? Isn't that just something else that we've all assumed.

HAL2100
January 26th, 2009, 01:18 PM
After about 5 seconds of reading that link, I realised it to be the work of Fan Fic. Absolute rubbish, pure and simple.

Yes, it's plausible, in the sense that it wraps everything up and tells a nice story. But so does The Holy Bible and I personally don't find that particular book to be even slightly plausible.

That article doesn't fit with any of the mythology revealed so far in the show, nor anything TPTB have commented on.

Just Say No.

At any rate, I'm impressed with it even if it's nothing to do with anything. I can still appreciate it. Secondly, about half-way through Babylon 5, J. Michael was pulled aside at a fan convention by a fan who told him her theory on the where things were going. He smiled and said that's nice....as he bit his tongue that she had figured out all of the major plot points and the end of the story.

tricky
January 26th, 2009, 03:46 PM
cast list for final episode:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993922/

Can't believe no one is talking about this cast list!

Some interesting people appearing in the last episode:

Zak Adama and Duella! Dream Sequence or Resurrection?

As well as a Police officer and two characters from the Episode "Crossroads".

Interesting. And NO Ellen Tigh, as far as I see.

entil2001
January 26th, 2009, 06:17 PM
One would expect things to calm down a little after the relentless events of the previous episode, but that's not quite what happens. Instead, the fallout continues, the body count mounts behind the scenes, and the delicate fabric of Colonial society threatens to tear itself to ribbons. More than that, we get a chilling reminder that the heroes of the story are hardly white knights.

Adama is walking around, picking up all the pieces, trying to maintain some sense of order, personal and professional, in the face of crushing loss and despair. Adama also doesn't seem to be doing so well physically; he appears ill. It's impossible to tell if that's just the result of his attempt to contain his psychological and emotional pain or something more medically serious. Whatever the case, Adama is just barely holding things together.

Part of his problem is Roslin's decision to abandon her duties as President. All things being equal, Zarek has every right to step up to the plate and pursue his own agenda in her absence. It's also hard not to see his point of view. Working with the Cylons and trusting in their technology, even when it holds the promise of aiding Humanity's survival, must sound like insanity. After all, as more than one person points out, Humanity wouldn't be fighting for survival if it wasn't for the Cylons in the first place!

All of this harkens back to Adama's initial questions about Humanity's worthiness to survive. Ever since the Cylon attack, Humanity has been at cross-purposes. On the one hand, they continually try to overcome their own worst impulses to fight the enemy and survive another day. On the other, the hope they've held for years now is deliverance. They’ve been striving to find Earth because, in the minds of many, Earth would have magically solved all their problems.

Of course, even if it had been inhabited by the descendents of ancient Colonists, how could it have lived up to expectation? Unless they were advanced far beyond the fleet's standards, they would have been in rather sudden dire straits. As it stands, Earth had become a symbol for the ultimate external solution to Colonial problems.

Yet isn't that what started this entire problem in the first place? Humanity sought to ease their burdens and externalize tasks and responsibilities onto the Cylons they created, never once thinking that their mechanical servants would turn on them. And this is despite a religious order that knew of prophecies and histories that warned of just such a fate! In a very real sense, the Colonists are best defined by their penchant for passing responsibility for their survival and well-being to others.

Which is why Adama, Roslin, and those following them have been portrayed as the heroes of the story, even though they've been terribly flawed and questionable in their methods. These are the people getting things done when the times require it. They're making the hard sacrifices. As a result, it seems unnecessary, even traitorous, for someone with Zarek's reputation to question their right to represent the fleet.

But the episode goes out of its way to show that Adama doesn't really have anything on Zarek. The man can be a rabble rouser, and he has some questionable connections, but Adama blackmailed him into getting out of the way of progress as Adama defines it. (And there's no question that this is Adama's call, not Roslin's; Roslin seems to be going along with it more than pushing for it). This ties back into the notion that some colonies, like Caprica, were more powerful and entitled than others.

Which, in turn, ties into one reason why permanent alliance with the rebel Cylons would be a rather good move. If Adama is serious about moving on from the disappointment of Earth and finding a new direction and path, then bringing the Cylons into the fold and giving them a voice (perhaps a thirteenth seat on the Quorum?) is the best option. It still won't be a perfect solution, because resentments will linger for generations to come, but all the signs point to the notion that merging the two into one society is the only viable course.

There is another source of pressure, of course, and that would be the child of Tigh and Six. Even as the "importance" of Nicholas is wiped out of the equation with an unexpected paternity switch (shall we drag Cally through the mud some more?), this new child points to two things: a possible future for the Cylons as an evolving species, and the unique nature of the Final Five.

The Colonists would be very wise to forge this alliance before the Cylons come to the odd conclusion that they don't really need the humans at all. Or they need to figure out what makes the Final Five so special, such as the strong possibility that they are the end product of the previous cycle's Human/Cylon genetic merge, ala Hera. And all of this has to come to light before the alliance pulls itself apart.

Fresh off the events of "Face of the Enemy", the webisodes devoted to Gaeta, we see him emerge as the fanatical anti-Cylon warrior under Zarek's tutelage. A lot of people in the fleet are going to be willing to march for that cause, and it is not going to be pretty. Gaeta is essentially plotting a coup, and those are seldom without bloodshed.

The wild card in all of this is the rise of Baltar's cult, still percolating in the background. Given his previous leanings, would he marshal his followers to back Adama's alliance with the Cylons? It seems like a reasonable assumption, but with Baltar, who can say? It would be rather interesting if Adama and Roslin were forced, by circumstance, to ally themselves with Baltar. The way things are going, however, anything seems possible.

One final word: Ron Moore did a bang-up job with the direction of this episode. He avoided the usual pitfall of trying to introduce "trick shots" to prove that he has a unique perspective to show, and his style meshed with what has been prevalent to date. Moore had some great comments to make about the experience on the official podcast, and I would recommend that to those interested. He also mentions that a longer cut of the episode will be on the eventual DVD set; something tells me that will be the case for most of these final episodes.


John Keegan
Reprinted with permission
Original source: c. Critical Myth, 2009
All rights reserved
Link: http://www.criticalmyth.com

L-S
January 26th, 2009, 06:57 PM
Mary McDonnell does a wonder (and the writers, too) at rendering sympathetic and appealing a character (the President) who had grown so strange, and stale, and off-putting, and mentally-ill, and disturbing.

A few episodes ago, her character was mumbling like a deeply schizoid monster, while allowing to die a man (Baltar), bleeding to death - and then, in a moment of strange but human kindness, re-bandaged him.

She gives up the poisons, and a little yoga, and a jog later, feels life creeping and coursing back ... and gets frisky!

Very nice, touching, even if the visual image was more than some wanted...

What was it about the performance that grew so unnerving, during her "High Priestess" phase? She was written and played as unflappable, but increasingly inhuman. Nice to see the heart and soul in a character who was earlier quite sympathetic.

Nice to see the writers giving her a break - she was always a school-teacher, doing her best, in over her head - and now, she's taking herself off the hook: "I'm just a person, and a woman."

Very nice stuff, team BSG...


On the other hand, The "whose Hot Dog was it" subplot and all it entailed was truly execrable, not from the actors, but the silliness, oh, the silliness. Straight from the Telenovellas...

"?!QUE! No Estoy el PADRE!!! DIOS MIO!!!"

Looking forward to next week, signorinas y signors!

GateTrek2004
January 26th, 2009, 08:37 PM
Can't believe no one is talking about this cast list!

Some interesting people appearing in the last episode:

Zak Adama and Duella! Dream Sequence or Resurrection?

As well as a Police officer and two characters from the Episode "Crossroads".

Interesting. And NO Ellen Tigh, as far as I see.

I'm thinking its a dream/memory of something in the past cause if Zak Adama and Dee are in this in ACTUAL PHYSICAL FORM, then my thought that EVERYONE'S A CYLON will be proved!

Skydiver
January 27th, 2009, 04:01 AM
maybe not

what if they all die and go to 'heaven'....and see all that have gone before them???

so not a flashback, not a dream sequence, but a dying person's 'vision' of what's waiting for them

rarocks24
January 27th, 2009, 06:08 AM
Hubby and I were amazed at how spacious the cells on the galactica are, I would think smaller would be more effficient.
I think it is great that Gaeta has grown a set, he needed to! hooray for the rebellion.
baltar does something besides preach... he gets a lot of "action" ;) (although for the life of me I don't see the attraction :S)

Like walking in your parents *gets a nervous twitch from 30 years ago :S*


Pure spite! that's my theory oh and that she is count Iblis.
I agree with you about Gaeta, totally understandable.


Ever heard of the United States Congress????? around 535 of the biggest idiots on the planet!!!! (uh huh this bailout will help the little guy! :rolleyes:) oh yes people are that stupid , especially in a group --- it's called groupthink. :S

Correction, the majority of Congress is stupid. The minority thinks this bailout is as useful as a boat anchor with no boat.

Skydiver
January 27th, 2009, 06:59 AM
points up at the topic ;)

Let's not get derailed please

HAL2100
January 27th, 2009, 08:05 AM
Can't believe no one is talking about this cast list!

Some interesting people appearing in the last episode:

Zak Adama and Duella! Dream Sequence or Resurrection?

As well as a Police officer and two characters from the Episode "Crossroads".

Interesting. And NO Ellen Tigh, as far as I see.

...but no Elosha!

g.o.d
January 27th, 2009, 08:11 AM
Ellen will be in 7 episodes

HAL2100
January 27th, 2009, 08:13 AM
i seem to recall Moses, after doubting the spring, was told by god that he couldn't ever enter the promised land...so when they got there, he and his wife stayed outside, watched hte rest of the people go in, and were content.

their job was done and their mission accomplished and they didn't NEED to actually set foot in the promised land. it was good enough to be there and know that hte kids were safe and then they were ready to die

I'm seeing the same type of thing happening to adama and roslyn

Actually no, as I recall his doubt resulted in the Jews marching all around the area outside the Promised Land until Moses died.

HAL2100
January 27th, 2009, 08:16 AM
maybe not

what if they all die and go to 'heaven'....and see all that have gone before them???

so not a flashback, not a dream sequence, but a dying person's 'vision' of what's waiting for them

If Heaven is New York City...

smortt
January 28th, 2009, 01:52 AM
If heaven is New York city then we're really screwed

Matt G
January 28th, 2009, 03:00 PM
Now we have a few more things to throw in the mixer.

1. Is Roslin is President and Zarek VP, what the hell is Lee right now?

2. Not sure I like where Tyrol's going. Don't know what would happe to the final 5 if the rebel Cylons decided to split from the human fleet.

3. Am backing the Adams and Roslin on the upcoming conflict, don't think the Colonials have much option here.

4. Tigh and Six looked creepy. Adama and Roslin even more so!

Back40
January 28th, 2009, 07:27 PM
1. Is Roslin is President and Zarek VP, what the hell is Lee right now?


Still Caprica's representative on the Quorum.


4. Tigh and Six looked creepy. Adama and Roslin even more so!

The older you get, the better they look! Trust me :D :D

HAL2100
January 28th, 2009, 08:10 PM
The older you get, the better they look! Trust me :D :D

...and the less you'll settle for.

Skydiver
January 29th, 2009, 04:34 AM
tigh and six's whole conversation was creeping me out

he's always so gruff and hates the cylons...but then looks at his baby mommy and he's all ooy gooey sweet

it was just creepy :)

makes the cynic in me wonder - well first how he had sex with a creature and being that he hates, then wonder if there was some sort of seduction thing going on (like head six with baltar) to control him.

I read something that suggests that the sixes use thier bodies and sexuality to control....and use it as a weapon of a sort, so i have to wonder if this is just a plot by the cylons and the six, to control adama's XO and split the fleet

In other words, what if the six is trying to secure her own survival and the survival of the cylons with the fleet by 'sleeping her way' to having tigh on her side with the hope that tigh will rise up against adama and give preference towards the cylons instead of the humans

Matt G
January 29th, 2009, 02:29 PM
The older you get, the better they look! Trust me :D :D

Whatever. Don't do bald!

jbreaken
January 30th, 2009, 01:50 AM
I can't wait to see what causes the pres to put her wig back on and scream: "I'm coming for all of you!"

akuma07
January 30th, 2009, 05:53 AM
Aside from a few key storyline features, totaling about 2.5 mins of screen time, this was by far and away the single most boring and uneventful episode so far.

I really hope its a quiet before the storm!

rarocks24
January 30th, 2009, 11:48 AM
Now we have a few more things to throw in the mixer.

1. Is Roslin is President and Zarek VP, what the hell is Lee right now?

Lee went back to being just another member of the Quorum.


2. Not sure I like where Tyrol's going. Don't know what would happe to the final 5 if the rebel Cylons decided to split from the human fleet.

Welp, looks like Tyrol is going with the Cylons in this episode. And Tory already crossed over. So Anders might be the next one to cross before they get full citizenship.


3. Am backing the Adams and Roslin on the upcoming conflict, don't think the Colonials have much option here.

I don't know anyone who would side with the Rebels on this. Frankly, that just means that there's tons of Six's on the Dating Market. And god knows, they'll go fast.


4. Tigh and Six looked creepy. Adama and Roslin even more so!

Tigh got Six pregnant. In all honesty, its good Tigh moved on finally... even if Ellen is supposedly coming back.

Rac80
January 30th, 2009, 06:10 PM
Correction, the majority of Congress is stupid. The minority thinks this bailout is as useful as a boat anchor with no boat.

you are correct, but I posted BEFORE the vote, I just didn't have a lot of confidence in their intelligence! ;)



Back ON topic----- This ep is eagerly anticipated here.... the story is finally moving forward.... what will Gaeta and Zarek do? when does ellen return? did the D'anna's stay on the planet? and where do they all go next?

STC
January 30th, 2009, 11:10 PM
Q&A with RDM about this episode
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/01/battlestar-galactica-ron-moore-disquiet-follows-my-soul.html#more


Really interesting interview with RM. FYI he admits that Ellen is the 5th, and tells how they arrived at the decision. I have to admit I'm disappointed, I really thought Tigh's statement "Ellen, you're the Fifth!" to be a red herring.
Seems it ain't so.

HAL2100
February 1st, 2009, 05:29 PM
Now that I saw the Oath, I understand why the ep was a bit slow (somewhat). Although it lead the ground work for The Oath, I think that it could have been stronger if all of Gaeta's rumblings and whatnot had been a bit more prevalent with it very, very clear that things were leading up to The Oath. They did grant you, but I think that the story could have been structured in a much stronger way.

BuggyMan
February 2nd, 2009, 08:34 PM
Re: The Iraq comparison, I was thinking of a different parallel.. the Iraqi people had their country invaded, their roads, bridges, schools, hospitals, airports, infrastructure destroyed, thousands killed, etc. by the Americans. But now at this point all order has disappeared and they actually see that working with the people who put them in this situation may be their best option, as hard as it is to swallow.

I laughed out loud at Lee's press conference where he accidentally mentioned the final 5 was a woman and then disappeared "Oops, sorry, you used up all your questions, sorry, rules is rules!" I thought that was pretty funny--you cant just say something like that and then disappear.

And in the hospital when Gaeta was complaining about how the Cylons get health care but he can't, did anyone notice that the nurse perked up when the Six mentioned that her baby ensures the future of the cylon race? It could be nothing but it made me think she will share that knowledge and/or do something about it, that she deep down hates the Cylons. She seemed sympathetic to Gaeta too but it may be nothing.. they don't have a lot of time to develop many more plotlines :(

I wish Baltar would be given a more prominent role. It was nice to see him during the fight scene with Tyrol/Hotdog, totally oblivious, but still, I want to see manipulative, powerful Baltar, not preachy, cultish Baltar. He is such a powerful character and has driven events in the past, but now has power only over fringe religious nympho nuts. And what in the world happened to Head Six and her unexplained miraculous predictions to Baltar? Hopefully we shall see soon!

Pharaoh Atem
March 2nd, 2009, 02:31 AM
hahaha

hotdog is a daddy and got his ass kicked :P

i really like baltar in this ep he makes a good point if there really are gods why are their just sitting back and letting the fleet suffer ???

the end was brilliant with laura and bill was so over due :D

Pharaoh Atem
May 9th, 2009, 05:05 PM
oh and one more thing

run laura run

AresLover452
January 8th, 2011, 06:17 PM
the end was brilliant with laura and bill was so over due :D

so totally LOVED the ending with Laura and Bill!! It was over due!!! And they deserve it.