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songar87
January 3rd, 2009, 12:26 AM
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but if the big deal in 'Vegas' is about the Wraith not knowing the location of Earth, where did the Wratih in the episode and his hive ship that arrived three months ago come from? And by the way, what's the deal with regular Wraith (not just queens) having super mental abilities?

Khentkawes
January 3rd, 2009, 12:48 AM
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but if the big deal in 'Vegas' is about the Wraith not knowing the location of Earth, where did the Wratih in the episode and his hive ship that arrived three months ago come from?

Umm... I don't know. Good question.


And by the way, what's the deal with regular Wraith (not just queens) having super mental abilities?

I thought it was just me! I don't remember the wraith having mental abilities like that either and it really confused me. Maybe I'm just being forgetful and it's been referenced somewhere before?

ascended alteran
January 3rd, 2009, 01:23 AM
And by the way, what's the deal with regular Wraith (not just queens) having super mental abilities?

They established the fact that regular wraith have mental abilities in "Rising." The wraith in the darts above Athos are able to make the Athosians and Sumner's team see things that aren't really there.

Platschu
January 3rd, 2009, 01:29 AM
And how could McKay be from McKay and Mrs. Miller? He told Sheppard was a member of MENSA, who liked to speak about it all the time. So Sheppard had to be in Atlantis and can't be a detective...


ROD: If you could call it that. He’s very active with the Mensa club we have there.

(John frowns.)

ROD: They have a lot of, um, functions.

SHEPPARD: Well, you can’t blame a man for his intelligence.

ROD: No, but I can blame him for reminding all the time.

SHEPPARD (amazed): He doesn’t!

ROD: Mmm, trust me. My Sheppard makes your Rodney seem modest in comparison.

(John looks a little disturbed by this.)

SHEPPARD: Well, I’ve gotta admit -- between you and me -- you’re a lot different than our Rodney too.

ROD: How so?

SHEPPARD: It’s the little things. You like golf; you say “please” and “thank you”; you’re, um ... what’s the opposite of condescending?

http://gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/transcripts/308.shtml

knowsfords
January 3rd, 2009, 01:40 AM
Plot?

AmyE
January 3rd, 2009, 04:37 AM
OK...what did I miss? How did they get here and why is this happening? Why is Shep not Shep but everyone else from another universe?? Wasn't everyone happily out and about in Pegasus an episode ago? Did I fall alseep? ....Again.... I love this show but know I am starting to see it is time to go. Did not care for this episode... Don't like Santuary and not looking forward to much else on the horizon but the end of BSG...which is also depressing me... I think it is time to break open my SG1 box sets and start from the beginning.

Gatorade
January 3rd, 2009, 04:40 AM
OK...what did I miss? How did they get here and why is this happening? Why is Shep not Shep but everyone else from another universe?? Wasn't everyone happily out and about in Pegasus an episode ago? Did I fall alseep? ....Again.... I love this show but know I am starting to see it is time to go. Did not care for this episode... Don't like Santuary and not looking forward to much else on the horizon but the end of BSG...which is also depressing me... I think it is time to break open my SG1 box sets and start from the beginning.

yeah, tha't an alternate reality episode...a view from the other side.

AmyE
January 3rd, 2009, 04:56 AM
yeah, tha't an alternate reality episode...a view from the other side.

I do not like when they do this. With infinite possibilites and realities episodes like this can go on forever in any sort of way and make no sense within the bigger picture. Like Sliders gone bad...thought I did like Sliders...except the rip off of a finale :( I am getting to the point with Scifi programs that I do not want to watch live in season for fear of disapointment or premature cancellation or the show just disappears one day never to be heard from again.... Invasion....Surface... ?? And where is the rest of the Chronicles of Riddick???? Lot's of hype and promises that never deliver. Where have all the great scifi writers gone? Long time have seen....long time ago...
It really makes me feel like I am in the minority in my viewing preferences.

capt. moroni
January 3rd, 2009, 05:16 AM
Way back in Season 2, Michael and his Queen uploaded Wraith data on Atlantis computers to get the Aurora mission logs and star maps, including the location of earth.

I'm guessing in this reality, that wraith ship wasn't stopped by the Daedalus and Orion in the void between Pegasus and the Milky Way, but made it to earth and was taken out by the Ancient Outpost in Antarctica.

And the point of this episode is that the stranded Wraith sent a signal to Pegasus that had the location of earth. It didn't reach Pegasus in his reality, because most of the signal leaked into other realities exposed to that one.

So a wraith on that alternate-reality earth quite possibly tipped off wraith in our reality as to the location of "our" earth.

Jedi_Master_Bra'tac
January 3rd, 2009, 05:23 AM
And how could McKay be from McKay and Mrs. Miller? He told Sheppard was a member of MENSA, who liked to speak about it all the time. So Sheppard had to be in Atlantis and can't be a detective...



http://gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/transcripts/308.shtml
Simple, he isn't Rod from McKay and Mrs. Miller. Who said he was?

pilgrim soul
January 3rd, 2009, 05:27 AM
Simple, he isn't Rod from McKay and Mrs. Miller. Who said he was?


Doesn't it stand to reason that AU's "our" team haven't come across may have met other AU's that we haven't come across either? There are an infinite number of alternate realities out there after all.

JacksonClone
January 3rd, 2009, 05:31 AM
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but if the big deal in 'Vegas' is about the Wraith not knowing the location of Earth, where did the Wratih in the episode and his hive ship that arrived three months ago come from?

Apparently only small differences exist between our reality and Vegas'...

(Rodney mentioned he had visited a similar alternate reality, very similar to Vegas', but that Sheppard was the leader instead of Rodney).*


It's possible that the Atlantis in Vegas' reality made allies with Todd's hive...

because we saw Todd being held prisoner on Earth.


In our reality, Todd forced access to a lot of sensitive material...

including the McKay-Carter Gate Bridge macro, leading to the Wraith invasion of Midway and consequentially its destruction (Cavanaugh wouldn't have accidentially triggered a self-destruct booby-trap if the Wraith hadn't uploaded it).


So if Todd's Wraith had the location for Earth and wanted a new feeding ground exclusively for themselves, they'd not tell the others. Thus, only 1 hive ship came.


Forgive any unnecessary Spoiler tags. I don't know what's considered sensitive in this part of the forums.


*It may not be a stretch that Vegas' Rodney visited our Atlantis. I mean, just because we didn't see it on-screen doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Hermiiod
January 3rd, 2009, 05:33 AM
I was under the impression that the Mckay is the suit was the same one from Mckay and Mrs. Miller.

Stormtrooper
January 3rd, 2009, 05:37 AM
Simple, he isn't Rod from McKay and Mrs. Miller. Who said he was?

OR s4-s5 is set in an alternate reality which was visited by Rod from Vegas...

MCH
January 3rd, 2009, 05:41 AM
Way back in Season 2, Michael and his Queen uploaded Wraith data on Atlantis computers to get the Aurora mission logs and star maps, including the location of earth.

I'm guessing in this reality, that wraith ship wasn't stopped by the Daedalus and Orion in the void between Pegasus and the Milky Way, but made it to earth and was taken out by the Ancient Outpost in Antarctica.

And the point of this episode is that the stranded Wraith sent a signal to Pegasus that had the location of earth. It didn't reach Pegasus in his reality, because most of the signal leaked into other realities exposed to that one.

So a wraith on that alternate-reality earth quite possibly tipped off wraith in our reality as to the location of "our" earth.

Now that make sense to me Joe did say the 2 episodes where linked, so was that the link he was talking about? Has any one asked Joe yet?

Hermiod


I was under the impression that the Mckay is the suit was the same one from Mckay and Mrs. Miller.

Not sure about that. Is he the one called Rod, right? So what happened to Rod's Shepherd, the one in Mensa? I'm sure Rod is talking about our team Atlantis.

MCH

rsanchez
January 3rd, 2009, 05:44 AM
I do not like when they do this. With infinite possibilites and realities episodes like this can go on forever in any sort of way and make no sense within the bigger picture.
The good thing about this AU episode is that it DOES make sense within the bigger picture. The beacon activated by the Wraith didn't signal the other Wraith in that reality, it signaled the Wraith in OTHER realities, one of those being our own.

The Wraith in Enemy at the Gate will now know the location of Earth, even though we don't know how the alternate Wraith knew the location of Earth.

Jedi_Master_Bra'tac
January 3rd, 2009, 05:48 AM
Doesn't it stand to reason that AU's "our" team haven't come across may have met other AU's that we haven't come across either? There are an infinite number of alternate realities out there after all.

Yes it does.


Now that make sense to me Joe did say the 2 episodes where linked, so was that the link he was talking about? Has any one asked Joe yet?

MCH

The link will make perfect sense in EATG

MCH
January 3rd, 2009, 06:40 AM
Yes it does.



The link will make perfect sense in EATG


Good.

One other thing I curious about.

Rod recognised Shepherd and mentioned the other Shepherd he'd meet. So taking that line of theought further, could Todd have also met the other Shepherd in the sme way Rodney did?

Or was he in contact with the other Wraith, hum no that doesn't work does it?

Grrrr this is going to annoy me......:sheppard33:. I hate it when parts of story only half told. Hoping maybe EATG could clear this up.

MCH

AmyE
January 3rd, 2009, 07:37 AM
[QUOTE=rsanchez;9501433]The good thing about this AU episode is that it DOES make sense within the bigger picture. The beacon activated by the Wraith didn't signal the other Wraith in that reality, it signaled the Wraith in OTHER realities, one of those being our own.

I do not understand the difference....then the Wraith will receive that beacon....travel through the rift to alternate Earth where it originated from....suck the life out of all the humans...Big Finale! Alas, since it did not really happen in the reality we all based the show in I am sure Atlantas will be back alive and well in it's normal reality for some DVD movies like nothing happened. That's what frustrates me about these alternate realities. Anything can happen with out consequences because there is alway an out.

jyh
January 3rd, 2009, 08:10 AM
They established the fact that regular wraith have mental abilities in "Rising." The wraith in the darts above Athos are able to make the Athosians and Sumner's team see things that aren't really there.

True, but you have to admit that after the first few episodes of season 1, that 'skill' kind of disappeared. It really wasn't used much or referred to after that. That's why this wraith's 'abilities' sort of came out of the blue. (Of course, in that particular reality, it could've been much more developed....)

jyh
January 3rd, 2009, 08:17 AM
AmyE: I do not understand the difference....then the Wraith will receive that beacon....travel through the rift to alternate Earth where it originated from....suck the life out of all the humans...Big Finale! Alas, since it did not really happen in the reality we all based the show in I am sure Atlantas will be back alive and well in it's normal reality for some DVD movies like nothing happened. That's what frustrates me about these alternate realities. Anything can happen with out consequences because there is alway an out.[/QUOTE]

close, but not quite. The signal sent by 'Vegas Wraith' was sent, but 'Vegas Wraith hiveships' didn't receive the signal. The signal got lost in some sort of time/space rift, so that hiveships in OTHER realities may receive it. That means that the wraith in "our" Pegasus galaxy might receive this unexpected signal showing the location of a planet w/ a huge feeding ground. THAT's why "our" Atlantis may be the last line of defense between the Wraith and "our" earth.

It was only McKay's & Woolsey's one-minute conversation toward the very end that mentioned that, so it would have been easy to miss. :sheppard:

jyh
January 3rd, 2009, 08:28 AM
Not to quibble, but.... if Sheppard had gotten a Dishonorable Discharge from the Air Force, I don't think he would've been eligible to be hired by a police force. Maybe it varies by state, but in a lot of states, that definitely makes him ineligible.

By the way, in "our" AU, Sheppard wears a black wristband on his right wrist, and I've heard it may cover a bracelet that he never takes off. In this ep, I clearly saw a bracelet on his wrist, but didn't get a good look at it. Anybody know what it was??

bobsuncorp
January 3rd, 2009, 08:31 AM
There seems to be some debate (although not a mass one) about whether or not the Mckay in the Vegas reality was the Rod who visited our reality. The answer is no.

What you want more? Oh ok then:

as we know there are infinite realities in the multiverse and because they are seperated by what can be very small differences most of them are pretty much identical. This means that if our Dr Mckay came up with the idea of an intergalactic bridge, so did one from another reality. And just like Rod was from the reality that we connected to, so another Dr Mckay (or someone else, smart Shepherd for example) would have travelled to (or from) the Vegas reality.

So thats how Vegas Mckay can refer to an interdimensional meeting with another Shepherd.

Dude you reckon Vegas Mckay and Vegas Keller have got something going on?

leanbarton
January 3rd, 2009, 08:31 AM
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but if the big deal in 'Vegas' is about the Wraith not knowing the location of Earth, where did the Wratih in the episode and his hive ship that arrived three months ago come from? And by the way, what's the deal with regular Wraith (not just queens) having super mental abilities?



If I were you I'd watch the Vegas re-run and then the finale right after it. Because they will meld together quite well.

Of course I don't totally understand how the wraith got on earth in Vegas, but it was a great episode.

tricky
January 3rd, 2009, 11:52 AM
Ok, so some of my thoughts:
This McKay wasn't the same one we saw in the ep with his sister: remember, he's called "Rod" in that reality; Jennifer called him "Rodney", and maybe AU Zelenka did too, can't remember.
I think the AU Wraith got the intell from Todd (i mean, why would the Team drag Todd to Earth...oh wait, they did that once. In the AU, after Colonel Lorne and Todd got away from the Geni, there wasn't the 'bonding' between them like Shep and Todd. So Todd, in a later encounter, stole the location of Earth and specs for interstellar hyperdrives.
Boy, I hope all the different AU SGC's and SGA's are up for Wraith attacks. (oh, and the Goa'uld dominated Earths, the Ori Dominated Earths, the Replicator Dominated Earths, the Earths where a guy in a blue box saves the day instead of the Team, the Earth where Sam Carter has been brainwashed to think that she's a 160 year old British woman hunting the Trust's failed experiments, and all the Earths from all the bad Saturday night movies!)

rsanchez
January 3rd, 2009, 01:50 PM
Not to quibble, but.... if Sheppard had gotten a Dishonorable Discharge from the Air Force, I don't think he would've been eligible to be hired by a police force. Maybe it varies by state, but in a lot of states, that definitely makes him ineligible.

Maybe when they saw he kept trying after failing his detective exam twice, they took pity on him and let him join. Also, are you sure it makes you illegible to be hired by a police force, and not that it only makes you illegible to be a police officer?

Lythisrose
January 3rd, 2009, 01:53 PM
Maybe when they saw he kept trying after failing his detective exam twice, they took pity on him and let him join. Also, are you sure it makes you illegible to be hired by a police force, and not that it only makes you illegible to be a police officer?

And I thought Rodney said that the entire affair had been "sealed" due to some political maneuvering, so the department may not have even been aware of the incident. His record probably did not reflect it.

PMN1
January 3rd, 2009, 03:33 PM
I wonder how long it takes a wraith to start getting hungry?

rsanchez
January 3rd, 2009, 06:29 PM
They can probably go months or even years between feedings, unless they are injured as was shown in this episode.

Morrolan
January 3rd, 2009, 09:46 PM
And I thought Rodney said that the entire affair had been "sealed" due to some political maneuvering, so the department may not have even been aware of the incident. His record probably did not reflect it.

Right on! The records were sealed, so state background checks wouldn't pull up anything.

To clarify for the other poster, you can't just walk in and take a detective's exam. If he was ineligible to join the police force, he would never have the opportunity to take a detective's exam.

fumblesmcstupid
January 3rd, 2009, 11:40 PM
Joe wears trinkets his little boys make him. I read that in an interview sorry can't remember were! I think it's cute. My daughter draws me so many pictures it looks like I live in an art gallery! :)

ascended alteran
January 4th, 2009, 02:29 AM
Not to quibble, but.... if Sheppard had gotten a Dishonorable Discharge from the Air Force, I don't think he would've been eligible to be hired by a police force. Maybe it varies by state, but in a lot of states, that definitely makes him ineligible.

I checked the Las Vegas police department's website (http://www.lvmpd.com/Employment/hiring.html) and it isn't clear on the issue. It doesn't specifically state that a dishonorable discharge would make you ineligible to be hired. However, it does list military history as an area of concern.

Joe
January 4th, 2009, 07:40 AM
I checked the Las Vegas police department's website (http://www.lvmpd.com/Employment/hiring.html) and it isn't clear on the issue. It doesn't specifically state that a dishonorable discharge would make you ineligible to be hired. However, it does list military history as an area of concern.
Part of his military history may show up as Classified and his Record may not officially say he got a dishonorable discharge.

Matkin21
January 4th, 2009, 08:00 AM
The ship that arrived at earth may have been the
*EaTG minor spoilers*
Advanced Hive ship with a ZPM
The signal sent out by the looks of it was also a warning of
the ancient weapons platform in antarctica so the advanced hive wouldnt be destroyed by it

Jedi_Master_Bra'tac
January 4th, 2009, 08:41 AM
With regards to whether they'd let Shep join the police force if he was dishonourably discharged;

Alternate Reality, anything could happen

Joe
January 4th, 2009, 09:06 AM
With regards to whether they'd let Shep join the police force if he was dishonourably discharged;

Alternate Reality, anything could happen
or the being dishonourably discharged was covered up.

flameling
January 4th, 2009, 09:59 AM
I do believe Rodney said, that for political reasons, the record was sealed. Makes me wonder what he was doing. I'm guessing, top secret mission?

Morrolan
January 4th, 2009, 12:56 PM
I do believe Rodney said, that for political reasons, the record was sealed. Makes me wonder what he was doing. I'm guessing, top secret mission?Maybe not enough proof to warrant a dishonorable discharge. I know disobeying orders is enough, but if he had friends in high places...

DARSFOG
January 5th, 2009, 12:49 PM
A few things about AU affecting our reality...

I like to present to you case evidence a:

SG-1:
s01e19: There but the Grace of God
Daniel Jackson, (by way of the Quantum Mirror) vists an AU where the Goa'uld have attacked Earth. He gets the coordinates from where the attack orginate and is able to take that back to our universe.

Very similar to what happens in Vegas

Wraith signal from AU appears in our reality.

Now... As I was reading the top 5 John Sheppard episodes, I wonder...
The events that McKay talks about in this episode, are those the events we see in "Phantom." Just with a different turn out? And if it is, the reason why the case was sealed, was I think that mission was a black opp (IIRC)... which means it didn't happen

Hermiiod
January 6th, 2009, 05:25 AM
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but if the big deal in 'Vegas' is about the Wraith not knowing the location of Earth, where did the Wratih in the episode and his hive ship that arrived three months ago come from? And by the way, what's the deal with regular Wraith (not just queens) having super mental abilities?
That would be a good question for you to ask on Joe Mallozzi's blog for Robert Cooper. Incidentaly, for anyone who's interested, JM will take questions until Friday!
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/

Celebrian
January 6th, 2009, 05:32 AM
OK...what did I miss? How did they get here and why is this happening? Why is Shep not Shep but everyone else from another universe?? Wasn't everyone happily out and about in Pegasus an episode ago? Did I fall alseep? ....Again.... I love this show but know I am starting to see it is time to go. Did not care for this episode... Don't like Santuary and not looking forward to much else on the horizon but the end of BSG...which is also depressing me... I think it is time to break open my SG1 box sets and start from the beginning.

I'm in agreement. To me, I found 'Vegas' to be randomly thrown in as a lead up to the finale and it confused me totally. I, too, am not fussed on sanctuary and don't know what to do when BSG ends!! I think my head might explode :(

Avenger
January 9th, 2009, 12:38 AM
Now... As I was reading the top 5 John Sheppard episodes, I wonder...
The events that McKay talks about in this episode, are those the events we see in "Phantom." Just with a different turn out? And if it is, the reason why the case was sealed, was I think that mission was a black opp (IIRC)... which means it didn't happen

Not exactly the same because Sheppard was never discharged in our reality. He was essentially blacklisted and posted to a crappy post because of what happened in Afghanistan. And what we saw in Phantoms didn't involve a female medic.

Lt.Con
January 13th, 2009, 06:12 AM
When i first watched it, i honestly thought i was watching a different show, like they do some times moving people from one show to another. It really only came together once i saw the wrath marks on the body but i was still a little weary about it. For me personally i didnt like the episode as it didnt have any barring on the actually show other then message sent.

And on that message, why on earth would the wraith send a message to other AU's if he just wanted to be rescued. I find that part a little baffling as i dont see why or even how he would have even achieved such a feat without having core wraith technology other then what he salvaged from the crashed dart.

Coco Pops
May 10th, 2010, 08:34 AM
Sorry to ask silly question...... Please don't flame me.

But which version of Rodney is in this? Is that "our Rodney" doing a sliders into the AU to talk to Sheppard or is that the AU rodney that knows about "our universe" and........

Also I might be wrong but is the wraith in this episode one that fell from our universe into this alternate universe?

asdf1239
May 10th, 2010, 01:43 PM
the au rodney in vegas sheppard's timeline. they had met an atlantis team in another reality (not necessarily ours) that had sheppard as the leader.

SaberBlade
May 10th, 2010, 03:01 PM
Sorry to ask silly question...... Please don't flame me.

But which version of Rodney is in this? Is that "our Rodney" doing a sliders into the AU to talk to Sheppard or is that the AU rodney that knows about "our universe" and........

Also I might be wrong but is the wraith in this episode one that fell from our universe into this alternate universe?

It's a completely new Rodney. The AU Rodney belonged to that reality and since Sheppard wasn't part of the Atlantis Expedition, it wasn't Rod. If that Rodney had met the main continuity ("our" reality) then chances are it would have seen/explained on the show. The Wraith during the episode also belonged to that dimension, it's just their version of Todd managed to find Earth, go there with a ZPM powered Hive, get his ass kicked and have another survivor send a signal while "our" Todd was still in the process of making his ZPM powered Hive.

asdf1239
May 10th, 2010, 03:33 PM
The Wraith during the episode also belonged to that dimension, it's just their version of Todd managed to find Earth, go there with a ZPM powered Hive, get his ass kicked and have another survivor send a signal while "our" Todd was still in the process of making his ZPM powered Hive.
it wasn't necessarily a zpm powere dhive

SaberBlade
May 10th, 2010, 04:36 PM
it wasn't necessarily a zpm powere dhive

I disagree. The 'Vegas' reality, while having it's noticeable differences, seemed to be playing out events before they happened within the main reality. So I think it's more than likely that what happened in 'Vegas', could have happened in 'Enemy at the Gates'. A ZPM powered Hive, trying to reach Earth, only real difference is Todd being betrayed, which could be down to Todd not wanting to attack Earth yet or because he didn't want to at all due to his weird relationship with John.

Coco Pops
May 10th, 2010, 07:46 PM
But the signal the Wraith tried to send was penetrating out from the AU reality into ours? Wasn't this the same signal mentioned in EATG?

asdf1239
May 11th, 2010, 02:09 AM
yes

Coco Pops
May 11th, 2010, 05:28 AM
yes

I don't get that....... Why make a signal that powerful that it peneatrates other universes? I'm surprised the Wraith dude knew that

SaberBlade
May 11th, 2010, 05:55 AM
I think it penetrating into other dimensions was a side effect, not done on purpose.

Coco Pops
May 11th, 2010, 06:25 AM
I think it penetrating into other dimensions was a side effect, not done on purpose.

Oh ok I'll have to watch the episode again... Thanks.

asdf1239
May 11th, 2010, 07:41 PM
yes, the explosion caused by the plane missiles combined with the signal strength sent it into another reality for some reason