Untapped Wraith Potential?

[Puddle-Jumper]

Is it just me or did the writers make some major mistakes with developing the wraith as a bad guy? In my opinion anyway I felt that the whole retro virus thing was just a bad idea and we never really got a good feel for them as a bad guy, and they just never really seemed to be a major threat to Atlantis. The only recurring wraith baddies (Todd and Mike) again weren't great bad guys when compared to the likes of Anubis, Apophis and even fifth!

I just really feel that the wraith could have been taken in a much better direction, made them a bit scarier, a lot less like the goa'uld and just better bad guys really!

Or am I just crazy?

[Bobby]

Its a good point but i think that Michael was a proper bad guy.

[PG15]

It depends on what you want from a bad guy. The Wraith were a little scary in the first episode, but after that they weren't. On the other hand, instead of scary, they soon became intriguing, which IMHO is much better for an opponent.

That's why I never liked the Goa'uld; they weren't scary, nor were they intriguing...nor were they very powerful. At least the Ori and the Replicators were powerful (and intriguing in places, but none more so than the Wraith).

So the problem is, TPTB seems to want to expand the Wraith as a scary race, rather than an intriguing race, and that, unfortunately, means they get less development as a race. Instead, they get developed as bad guys.

Which is not development at all.

[dasNdanger]

It depends on what you want from a bad guy. The Wraith were a little scary in the first episode, but after that they weren't. On the other hand, instead of scary, they soon became intriguing, which IMHO is much better for an opponent.

That's why I never liked the Goa'uld; they weren't scary, nor were they intriguing...nor were they very powerful. At least the Ori and the Replicators were powerful (and intriguing in places, but none more so than the Wraith).

So the problem is, TPTB seems to want to expand the Wraith as a scary race, rather than an intriguing race, and that, unfortunately, means they get less development as a race. Instead, they get developed as bad guys.

Which is not development at all.

Exactly! You can't go back to scary and expect the audience to buy it - not now. Threatening, however, IS still doable. And we do need further development, but unless we can nag Mallozzi enough to put some stuff in the movie - or, better yet - get that Alan fella to help them write the movie - I doubt we'll get further insight into the Wraith, which is a real shame.

BTW, PG...nice to see you out and about!


das

[_Ancients_]

It depends on what you want from a bad guy. The Wraith were a little scary in the first episode, but after that they weren't. On the other hand, instead of scary, they soon became intriguing, which IMHO is much better for an opponent.

That's why I never liked the Goa'uld; they weren't scary, nor were they intriguing...nor were they very powerful. At least the Ori and the Replicators were powerful (and intriguing in places, but none more so than the Wraith).

So the problem is, TPTB seems to want to expand the Wraith as a scary race, rather than an intriguing race, and that, unfortunately, means they get less development as a race. Instead, they get developed as bad guys.

Which is not development at all.

Completely agree.

[PG15]

Hey, I'm bored tonight. What I can say, I'm branching out.

The movie would be a good vehicle to reveal something BIG about Wraith society; for instance, do they have an overall goal besides just eating and fighting? Do they have a wish for something more, just like how humans and Ancients want ascension?

The cool thing about the Wraith is that, though their development as a species has been mostly cobbled together, there is an underlying consistency; they are the product of evolution gone to the specialized extreme, where a Wraith only has 1 food source. What's more, unlike the other baddies, they aren't too human, nor are they too far removed. The Goa'uld were too human (they're just humans without any morals), while replicators and Ori were too inhuman and one-note. The Wraith strikes a balance; they're obviously not human, with various values and traditions unlike us, but they are also very closely linked to us.

There's A LOT of development that can be done here. Even if you don't know what to develop, it should be clear that it's a fertile playing field.

*Sigh* this is probably my number one problem with Stargate Atlantis; if only I can take control of one of the producer's minds. That'd be awesome.

[dasNdanger]

Hey, I'm bored tonight. What I can say, I'm branching out.

The movie would be a good vehicle to reveal something BIG about Wraith society; for instance, do they have an overall goal besides just eating and fighting? Do they have a wish for something more, just like how humans and Ancients want ascension?

The cool thing about the Wraith is that, though their development as a species has been mostly cobbled together, there is an underlying consistency; they are the product of evolution gone to the specialized extreme, where a Wraith only has 1 food source. What's more, unlike the other baddies, they aren't too human, nor are they too far removed. The Goa'uld were too human (they're just humans without any morals), while replicators and Ori were too inhuman and one-note. The Wraith strikes a balance; they're obviously not human, with various values and traditions unlike us, but they are also very closely linked to us.

There's A LOT of development that can be done here. Even if you don't know what to develop, it should be clear that it's a fertile playing field.

*Sigh* this is probably my number one problem with Stargate Atlantis; if only I can take control of one of the producer's minds. That'd be awesome.

I really think you should post that on JM's blog - NOT that he will listen, but - hey...it canNOT hurt.

Just the other day two of us - almost at the same time and before Joe approved our comments - mentioned a desire to see something presented from the Wraith POV. Now - what are the chances of that?? It's not like we were even discussing such an idea! But out of the blue, two of us think it almost at the same time. So...maybe...Joe will notice that we just don't want to see pasty green guys on the screen, but we really want to KNOW about them - what makes them tick, and - hopefully - it'll be something more than just a bunch of guys hellbent on eating their way through the galaxy...kinda like how Mallozzi just ate his way through Tokyo...

Heeeeeeyyyy....





das

[_Ancients_]

I would love to learn more about how their ships and technology work. I know that they have started to shed some light on it, but I feel like we have just scratched the surface.

[PG15]

I really think you should post that on JM's blog - NOT that he will listen, but - hey...it canNOT hurt.

Just the other day two of us - almost at the same time and before Joe approved our comments - mentioned a desire to see something presented from the Wraith POV. Now - what are the chances of that?? It's not like we were even discussing such an idea! But out of the blue, two of us think it almost at the same time. So...maybe...Joe will notice that we just don't want to see pasty green guys on the screen, but we really want to KNOW about them - what makes them tick, and - hopefully - it'll be something more than just a bunch of guys hellbent on eating their way through the galaxy...kinda like how Mallozzi just ate his way through Tokyo...

Heeeeeeyyyy....





das

Well, I'm game if you are. I can post that right now.

Just after I take out that last line.

[dasNdanger]

Well, I'm game if you are. I can post that right now.

Just after I take out that last line.

Chick. En.

If you post it, I will respond, of course...AND I'll try to do so in such a way that I don't sound like a freaky, obsessive-compulsive Wraith lover with a bad case of The Hots for Todd. (At least with Wraith being 10,000 years old and all, I don't sound like an old cougar, as well. Ya know, kinda like how I am SO gonna sound if one of the new boys in SGU catches my eye... )


das

[ph30nix]

the wraith are crap plain and simple, they started out having GREAT potential, but its just the goa'uld in a new wrapper

Infighting? Check
adavanced tech? check
superiority complex? check
worshippers? check
couldnt stop them if they came in full power? check

the wraith did have alot of potential but after season 2.... they just turned into a lamer version of the goa'uld micheal at least had great potential

honestly they shoulda gotten a movie outta him.

[PG15]

Chick. En.

Hey, I have a reputation to keep up (you know, the not-creepy reputatation).

If you post it, I will respond, of course...AND I'll try to do so in such a way that I don't sound like a freaky, obsessive-compulsive Wraith lover with a bad case of The Hots for Todd.

Aww, but that's what makes it fun!

Well anyway, I'll post it now.

[dasNdanger]

Hey, I have a reputation to keep up (you know, the not-creepy reputatation).



Aww, but that's what makes it fun!

Well anyway, I'll post it now.

I saw! I responded (not sure it's approved yet)! You're gonna HATE me!


das

[Ouroboros]

Is it just me or did the writers make some major mistakes with developing the wraith as a bad guy? In my opinion anyway I felt that the whole retro virus thing was just a bad idea and we never really got a good feel for them as a bad guy, and they just never really seemed to be a major threat to Atlantis. The only recurring wraith baddies (Todd and Mike) again weren't great bad guys when compared to the likes of Anubis, Apophis and even fifth!

I just really feel that the wraith could have been taken in a much better direction, made them a bit scarier, a lot less like the goa'uld and just better bad guys really!

Or am I just crazy?

No, you're entirely right.

The retrovirus thing was just awful full stop. It didn't really do anything to flesh out the Wraith more or make them more interesting, just tried to introduce some new sort of second rate Wraith badguys, and mostly it just served to make the team look bad. It's fairly obvious that the retrovirus basically equates to death for any wraith subjected to it so the team constantly acting like this was somehow any different or more humane that just outright exterminating them with bullets and bombs didn't do the show or the characters any favors. Exterminating them with bullets and bombs would have forced some hard questions to be asked and explored, trying to do it this way just amounted to a really unsuccesful sidestep of the whole issue and largely came off as making the team seem completely unconcerned and unbothered about the idea of carrying out the galaxy wide genocide of a sentient species.

The actual interesting characteristics of the Wraith were also virtually never touched on, the whole idea of having to eat humans to survive when they're essentially humans themselves mentally, and how they justify and live with that on a personal level. This wasn't done I figure because it would have humanized them to much and potentially attracted viewer empathy. Something which seemed directly oppossed to the desire to keep them in the role of snarling dreadlocked skeet discs for the entire series run.

Their culture and general backstory as a race was also woefully lacking. We're still not sure exactly how they rose as a species to challenge the ancients or even basic things like how they reproduce or what their day to day lives are like. They were almost never allowed to evolve beyond the point of 1 dimensional "I'm gunna eat you" villians and when they did the revelations brought about by it in other characters were quickly reset and the breakthroughs in understanding them better forgotten by following stories in favor of a return to the same tired "hungry boogymen" role.

There were some attempts at Wraith characters, Michael and Todd but with mixed success. With Michael, he was gradually eroded during the course of his arc from an interesting individual with a legitimate beef against the team, into some sort of mustache twirling mad scientist joke who suddenly wants to kill the entire Galaxy out of sheer inexplicable evil. Todd turned out much better but he came too little too late to really save the Wraith and he's not really around enough to make up for the vast gaping expanse of neglect that marked the Wraith's treatment in the early seasons. He's interesting in his own right but as a Wraith character used to give further insights into the actual Wraith society his use has been limited to just a few instances.

What the show needed was a recurring villian queen character right from the very early start who could be used to build the races backstory in a pseudo Teal'c type fashion as well as "put a face" to the new enemy the way Apophis did the early Goa'uld. That something like this wasn't done when it clearly worked so well in SG-1 in favor of just relegating the Wraith to a horde of anonymous paper targets really hurt them in the long run. It's five years later and the shows about to end and we still don't know much more about them than we did at the end of Rising.

[PG15]

I saw! I responded (not sure it's approved yet)! You're gonna HATE me!


das

Hahahahahaha!

Well, the "wise young man" part makes up for that...other part.

Though to be honest, I do see the attraction for you ladies; I just don't feel it for obvious reasons.