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GateWorld
December 6th, 2008, 08:33 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/519.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/519.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON FIVE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/519.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">VEGAS</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 519</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
In the city of Las Vegas, Detective John Sheppard must solve the case on a long string of unusual murders -- perpetrated by a Wraith in hiding.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/519.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

IrishPisano
January 2nd, 2009, 05:50 PM
it's 9:47 eastern time... still 10 minutes left... but Vegas is a very large reason why i am GLAD that Atlantis has been cancelled...

boring, dull, no sense that its a "Stargate" episode, let alone a Stargate show... and since its not "our" reality i find no interest in how it turns out...

Mitchell82
January 2nd, 2009, 05:52 PM
it's 9:47 eastern time... still 10 minutes left... but Vegas is a very large reason why i am GLAD that Atlantis has been cancelled...

boring, dull, no sense that its a "Stargate" episode, let alone a Stargate show... and since its not "our" reality i find no interest in how it turns out...

Shame you don't want to know how it ends since the end leads into the finale.

Skydiver
January 2nd, 2009, 05:55 PM
can i have the last 60 minutes of my life back please?

complete and total self-indulgent drek

fumblesmcstupid
January 2nd, 2009, 05:56 PM
he at least I know not to bother with it...

TameFarrar
January 2nd, 2009, 05:57 PM
can i have the last 60 minutes of my life back please?

complete and total self-indulgent drek

In what way was it complete and total self-indulgent drek? :D

IrishPisano
January 2nd, 2009, 05:59 PM
omg, whst a contrived ending


did Bryan Singer write this?

Stormtrooper
January 2nd, 2009, 05:59 PM
I almost fell asleep when I watched the leaked episode... It's really bad. Only the Sheppard fangirls will "like" it.

IrishPisano
January 2nd, 2009, 06:01 PM
wow

a Stargate episode with....... no stargate..... no Atlantis.... and it doesn't even take place in our own reality

its called STARGATE for a reason... not Sliders...

Lythisrose
January 2nd, 2009, 06:02 PM
I can see that people will either love it or hate it, it sure was different!
But 180 degree change of opinion here,
This episode was probably the best SGA ep I have ever seen. From the music, to the mood, to the acting, it was mesmerizing, I couldn't tear my eyes away.
It was heartbreaking, brilliant and I sure as heck wish they would have spun this off as a series instead of 90210!
I honestly have no words to describe how much I liked it, and (since I watched it a week ago, bad me) how it left me emotional for days after viewing.
See, everbody's tastes are different!!! ;)

Michelle05
January 2nd, 2009, 06:03 PM
Folks didn't like it, really? I thought it was very cool! Great production values, from editing to music to location, and a very tragic alternate Sheppard. The last scene has completely haunted me since I saw it (early, I admit). I loved the alternate Rodney and Zelenka, too. (A professional, confident but still nerdy Rodney who accidentally opened a rift, so it wasn't Rod, and he didn't know "our" Sheppard as I've seen some fans say.)

From what I can tell, JF did a lot of the stunts too, from jumping down the stairs to leaping over the car at the end. I'd love to hear more about that.

I can't believe the actor who played the Wriath was Khalek in Prototype. Wow!

Anyway I enjoyed this departure much more than the last 2 eps, and more than a bunch of S5 eps. I give them kudos for trying something different 5 yrs in.

BTW we have our transcript of Vegas up here (http://stargate-sg1-solutions.com/wiki/SGA_5.19_%22Vegas%22_Transcript).

Vala_M
January 2nd, 2009, 06:03 PM
A very cool and very different kind of episode!

Vala,

Mr. Jack
January 2nd, 2009, 06:03 PM
Fantastic episode! I wish that the other John Sheppard would have survived though. At least he died knowing that he just saved the entire world.

jelgate
January 2nd, 2009, 06:04 PM
It was definatly different then the average Stargate episode. I'm just not sure it was the right kind of different. Felt like they were trying too hard to emmulate CSI. I didn't find it even remotely interesting until McKay appeared in the episode.

Willow'sCat
January 2nd, 2009, 06:05 PM
can i have the last 60 minutes of my life back please?

complete and total self-indulgent drekOh now come on! That is not very positive. Half glass full! :p

I only liked the Wraith and Marilyn and David Hewlett in a suit and doing his best not to be Vergil from Cypher (but thankfully failing! :) Grrll).

The rest? CSI still has much better scripts.

Actually I posted my review in the other thread and I can't be bothered re-posting it here. :cool:

Sad way to start the end to a finale. Sad as in attrocias.

Michelle05
January 2nd, 2009, 06:06 PM
I can see that people will either love it or hate it, it sure was different!
But 180 degree change of opinion here,
This episode was probably the best SGA ep I have ever seen. From the music, to the mood, to the acting, it was mesmerizing, I couldn't tear my eyes away.


Word to all of that! I'm glad I'm not the only one. :)

Skydiver
January 2nd, 2009, 06:06 PM
In what way was it complete and total self-indulgent drek? :D
lol

if you're gonna spoof csi, at least do it 'right'

the driving rock music was annoying to the extreme, the wraith knowing how to apply hollywood quality makeup? not likely.

rodney was annoying to the extreme - as per usual.

it was just bad. cheesily bad.

it was like it was a 'see mr glassner we can do your csi' flavored with a couple snarks at the fans and reminded me of a few too many 'low budget grungy shootemups' movies from the 80's

Willow'sCat
January 2nd, 2009, 06:08 PM
Fantastic episode! I wish that the other John Sheppard would have survived though. At least he died knowing that he just saved the entire world.Yeah and that is original how? I mean really Sheppard deserved to die in this one so maybe that was original.

Talk about a waste of space human. :rolleyes: Oh look at me! I got peeps killed so lets not get therapy and help from others lets just brood and be a screw up for the rest of my life.

Jeez, he makes. me. sick! :cool:

Briangate78
January 2nd, 2009, 06:09 PM
Wow, just when you thought Stargate could not get anymore complexed or dynamic it just did. The episode was brilliant. It showed some amazing writing and I loved the twists and turns in the episode. Sheppard was awesome in this episode and I liked how they made him a detective with a really dark background, only to come out as a hero like the Sheppard in the real reality.

The most dramatic part was "Todd" when he says to him "You have a Destiny, John Sheppard" Nearly gave me chills.

The Finale looks awesome!!

Earthgate Ricky
January 2nd, 2009, 06:10 PM
I loved it when he owned John in their alternate reality.! :mckayanime03:

Why not they have a new series : "Stargate CSI: Vegas"?

I like to see Drs. Keller, Zelenka, and Beckett work in lab team as Sam Carter, Ronon and Evan would be detectives.

Infernorhythm
January 2nd, 2009, 06:10 PM
Folks didn't like it, really? I thought it was very cool! Great production values, from editing to music to location, and a very tragic alternate Sheppard. The last scene has completely haunted me since I saw it (early, I admit). I loved the alternate Rodney and Zelenka, too. (A professional, confident but still nerdy Rodney who accidentally opened a rift, so it wasn't Rod, and he didn't know "our" Sheppard as I've seen some fans say.)

From what I can tell, JF did a lot of the stunts too, from jumping down the stairs to leaping over the car at the end. I'd love to hear more about that.

I can't believe the actor who played the Wriath was Khalek in Prototype. Wow!

Anyway I enjoyed this departure much more than the last 2 eps, and more than a bunch of S5 eps. I give them kudos for trying something different 5 yrs in.

BTW we have our transcript of Vegas up here (http://stargate-sg1-solutions.com/wiki/SGA_5.19_%22Vegas%22_Transcript).
I agree, I loved it! I have a friend who LOVES CSI, so I was watching it with him, and we were cracking up at the homages. CSI: Atlantis indeed!

The production values, the locations, the music, it all worked. I loved the "Sympathy For the Devil" bit. The poker scene was classic. In fact, Alt. Rodney's rundown of Alt. Sheppard's background was insanely interesting. Loved that Sheppard still had the Johnny Cash poster and held on to it even when he quit. It was good to see that this leads into the finale. I mean, it reminded me of "There But For the Grace of God," but in a different way. Part homage, part story mover forward, part character study of what might have been. Don't get me wrong, the second to last episode, I want more meat and continuity, but it was a still a fun episode.

Alt. Rodney and Alt. Zelenka still bicker. Yay.

Oh, and that ending, great stuff. The Johnny Cash music, the slow crawl through the desert. While still maintaining the CSI theme, it was a great death of a character. I agree, very haunting. That Cash song is now one of my favorites. I have to get that off iTunes.

My one complaint was that Neil Jackson didn't get to act. He just growled and shot at Sheppard. I mean, he was so amazing as Khalek in "Prototype," and here he felt wasted. I was really looking forward to his performance. Oh well. :( At least Todd got a great monologue.

4/5.

Bring on Enemy at the Gates! I don't want Atlantis to end, but it looks so good.

Mekarri
January 2nd, 2009, 06:11 PM
I completely agree, the last two eps and they found a way to cheat us out of that. I will really miss SGA but if SU is to have chance I suggest they hire better writers. I want to say I will watch SU but I'm not sure that I am up for more disappointment. SGA started out great then it went from sugar to <the language filter is there for a reason> in no time. My advice, new writers and producers.

Mr. Jack
January 2nd, 2009, 06:11 PM
Yeah and that is original how? I mean really Sheppard deserved to die in this one so maybe that was original.

Talk about an waste of space human. :rolleyes: Oh look at me! I got peeps killed so lets not get therapy and help from others lets just brood and be a screw up for the rest of my life.

Jeez, he make.s me. sick! :cool:

As cliche' as it was. He still risked his own ass to give the Earth a chance and redeemed himself. The irony is that he was a selfish man since the incident but couldn't save himself in the end.

IrishPisano
January 2nd, 2009, 06:11 PM
what part of this episode qualifies it as a Stargate Atlantis one?

seems like someone took 5 characters from SGA, threw in Bobby Baccala and Phil Leotardo to be "cool"... added a LOT of songs.... and repackaged the entire thing as a pilot for another SciFi show...

if TPTB continue down this path with SGU, then i will not like it at all...

i'm watching season 2 of SG1 right now, and THAT is stargate.... there was nothing tonight that had any remote link to what Stargate really is...
nothing

just a bunch of contrived pseudo-edgy BS...

FallOutBoyTonto
January 2nd, 2009, 06:11 PM
it was kinda ok; but the feel of the episode is completely different than what was developed over the past 98 episodes. I did NOT like it at all! Atlantis is supposed to feel more like an escape from reality and this episode did not deliver that. This felt more like CSI:Miami than it did Stargate Atlantis

Briangate78
January 2nd, 2009, 06:12 PM
I almost fell asleep when I watched the leaked episode... It's really bad. Only the Sheppard fangirls will "like" it.

Shocker, well sorry you did not like it. Maybe the next ep will be more to your liking.

ladyjanus
January 2nd, 2009, 06:12 PM
OMFG!

This kicked a**, people...

Dark and dangerous and twisted, just like some of the best of the work I've read on the fan fiction sites.

Great soundtrack...

I've already read some posts expressing dislike, but I love this ep.

One caveat... What did they do to McKay's hair?

Michelle05
January 2nd, 2009, 06:12 PM
The one thing that bugged me was that there was no explanation for the cut on Sheppard's cheek. I mean, two people comment on it, but there was nothing to show why he should have it. My own theory is that he got beat up by his loan shark, and that scene had to be edited for time or something. It would have explained the cheek cut and why Shep took the Wraith's money. He was desperate. So the only clue we have to that is Rodney mentioning his off-the-book debts. Poor Shep! I hope RCC explains that some time.

photocat
January 2nd, 2009, 06:13 PM
Ok - I'm a bit confused. Pardon my dumb question...

Different reality on Earth and different Sheppard - got that.

But were all of the other "SGA" characters from different realities too -- i.e. not our Atlantis reality either?

McKayManiacs92
January 2nd, 2009, 06:13 PM
I don't understand what the last 60 minutes just were about?.....it was horrible!

If the powers that be wanted to simply go to Vegas and gamble instead of work...they should have made a show of just that, and it would have made more sense! Although I will say I'm not surprised seeing they seem to have jumped the ship for the entire season, giving all the time in the world for SGU rather than this one!....what a waste of a season....

jelgate
January 2nd, 2009, 06:14 PM
Looking back the main problem is they used way too many CSI cliches so we kind of knew exactaly what twist and turns the episode was going to take.

Lucylee
January 2nd, 2009, 06:14 PM
It was a beatiful, beautiful ep. I loved it.
10+ out of 10. :)
This is what they can do when they think out of the box.
The music just pushed it over the top to awesome.
I especially loved JF's performance, and I was fascinated by the Wraith, the scene where he put on the make up was eerie and cool. Seeing Zelenka, Rodney and Woolsey in suits was cool too.
Kinda X-files/CSI/Stargate hybrid.
John Sheppard is such a tragic figure, in any reality, that I am very sad for him, but the end is completely in keeping with his character. I cried and still have tears in my eyes.
:(

jelgate
January 2nd, 2009, 06:16 PM
Where is the Stargate aspect to your new show:P

prion
January 2nd, 2009, 06:16 PM
As far as I'm concerned they can transplant the whole team, and have them hunt down aliens ;)

But yes, as to the topic, Rodney looks very spiffy in a tailored suit!


I loved it when he owned John in their alternate reality.! :mckayanime03:

Why not they have a new series : "Stargate CSI: Vegas"?

I like to see Drs. Keller, Zelenka, and Beckett work in lab team as Sam Carter, Ronon and Evan would be detectives.

Lythisrose
January 2nd, 2009, 06:18 PM
I LOVED Rodney and Zelenka in their suits!
And I would be ecstatic if this would be a spin off show.
But I would definitely want Shep back! (maybe let AU Todd feed on someone and then bring Shep back to life!)

Orion Antreas
January 2nd, 2009, 06:19 PM
lol

if you're gonna spoof csi, at least do it 'right'

the driving rock music was annoying to the extreme, the wraith knowing how to apply hollywood quality makeup? not likely.

rodney was annoying to the extreme - as per usual.

it was just bad. cheesily bad.

it was like it was a 'see mr glassner we can do your csi' flavored with a couple snarks at the fans and reminded me of a few too many 'low budget grungy shootemups' movies from the 80's

There was a reason for that. That was one of Johnny Cash's songs. John Sheppard loves Johnny Cash both in the normal reality and the 'Vegas reality.' If you noticed, Detective Sheppard had the same poster of Johnny Cash in his office just like Lieutenant Colonel Sheppard in his quarters in 'our reality.'

Overall, I really liked the episode. It was different. It sorta had "The Changeling" feeling where it followed a different format that eventually tied into the Stargate universe. It also helped allude to Enemy at the Gate, the next episode.

The only problem I had with the episode is that I noticed a lot of times that Joe Flanigan almost seemed like he was whispering in many scenes. I don't know. It was a minor thing that bothered me a bit. Nothing to change my overall view of the episode.

With the comments about the Wraith using make-up, yeah that was a bit unrealistic, but who cares? It's a tv show. Just enjoy it. :P

TragicComedy
January 2nd, 2009, 06:19 PM
I bet the Wraith fangirls loved this epi. I mean a Wraith without his shirt on? lol
And poor crazy Todd. :(

It was weird seeing Rodney completely in control and not freaking out or being his usual self. And Joe seemed to be trying really hard to make John sound different - gruffer and not doing his "Joe" voice that David Hewlett makes so much fun of.

Seeing Jennifer was a surprise as I wasn't expecting her in this epi.

I really loved the nameless Wraith in this episode. His makeup was awesome and his figuring out that the rocker look would be the only possible way he could pass off being human was funny to me.

I found the Western music they would occasionally play through the episode extremely cheesy but otherwise liked the soundtrack they picked.

Don't you know next week Rodney is going to be freaking out when the signal from the other reality with Earth's address comes through in Wraith code?

It was interesting hearing more about the Afghanistan screw-up in John's past. It seems that was the breaking point that made this reality an alternate. If he wasn't with Nancy in our Stargate reality at the time, I wonder if he was also involved with the medic that he went back for here.

Specter177
January 2nd, 2009, 06:20 PM
Yea, "Stargate: Men (and Women) in Black."

Bizzare Star
January 2nd, 2009, 06:20 PM
I thought it was a great episode! (I think it helps I don't pay much attention to other people's complaints.)

It was fun and interesting. I loved that Radek and Rodney still bicker. I just thought it was so sad what they did to alt!Todd. I hope nothing like that will happen to our Todd.

jvmauck
January 2nd, 2009, 06:21 PM
I understand why this episode doesn't appeal to some people, but I loved it to death. Probably not the best episode in the season, but pretty close! I watch CSI occasionally and my Dad and I were laughing at all the CSIness. It was very cool. Can't wait for the last episode, only because it looks cool, not because the show in ending. :(

Morrolan
January 2nd, 2009, 06:23 PM
I can see that people will either love it or hate it, it sure was different!
But 180 degree change of opinion here,
This episode was probably the best SGA ep I have ever seen. From the music, to the mood, to the acting, it was mesmerizing, I couldn't tear my eyes away.
It was heartbreaking, brilliant and I sure as heck wish they would have spun this off as a series instead of 90210!
I honestly have no words to describe how much I liked it, and (since I watched it a week ago, bad me) how it left me emotional for days after viewing.
See, everbody's tastes are different!!! ;)

I wouldn't say the best episode ever, but it was damn fun! The music made the episode.

Michelle05
January 2nd, 2009, 06:23 PM
My one complaint was that Neil Jackson didn't get to act. He just growled and shot at Sheppard. I mean, he was so amazing as Khalek in "Prototype," and here he felt wasted. I was really looking forward to his performance. Oh well. :( At least Todd got a great monologue.


I thought Neil did act, just with his body and face. His motions and behaviors were so cool and intense. Evocative. So yeah, not a typical performance but still very powerful, imo.

Infernorhythm
January 2nd, 2009, 06:23 PM
I bet the Wraith fangirls loved this epi. I mean a Wraith without his shirt on? lol
And poor crazy Todd. :(

It was weird seeing Rodney completely in control and not freaking out or being his usual self. And Joe seemed to be trying really hard to make John sound different - gruffer and not doing his "Joe" voice that David Hewlett makes so much fun of.

Seeing Jennifer was a surprise as I wasn't expecting her in this epi.

I really loved the nameless Wraith in this episode. His makeup was awesome and his figuring out that the rocker look would be the only possible way he could pass off being human was funny to me.

I found the Western music they would occasionally play through the episode extremely cheesy but otherwise liked the soundtrack they picked.

Don't you know next week Rodney is going to be freaking out when the signal from the other reality with Earth's address comes through in Wraith code?

It was interesting hearing more about the Afghanistan screw-up in John's past. It seems that was the breaking point that made this reality an alternate. If he wasn't with Nancy in our Stargate reality at the time, I wonder if he was also involved with the medic that he went back for here.
They mentioned that he was involved with the medic. So, it looks like things changed before the Afghanistan mission. "Our" Sheppard went to rescue his fellow pilot, was shot down, but no one died from the crash. But he was unable to rescue his friend. "Alt" Sheppard went to rescue his lover, a medic, but was shot down and killed civilians in the crash. It also looks like our Sheppard was married to Nancy prior to Afghanistan, due to the time frame between that and his time in Antarctica. So, Alt Sheppard never married her, still went to Afghanistan, then things really went down hill.

By the way, does anyone know the name of the Johnny Cash song? I really want to get that for my iPod.


I thought Neil did act, just with his body and face. His motions and behaviors were so cool and intense. Evocative. So yeah, not a typical performance but still very powerful, imo.
True, you have a point. But I really got into him on Blade, so I was hoping for some more great dialogue and the like. He definitely gave the Wraith a presence (does he have a name? Should we call him Neil the Wraith?), but I was bummed that he got shortchanged on dialogue while Todd got the best lines. Still cool performance though.

Jackie
January 2nd, 2009, 06:25 PM
I generally liked this ep. I was rooting for the wraith to eat sheppard though. Darn!

I was also expecting mulder and scully to show up...or at least Skinner. Would have been a cool X-files ep.

jvmauck
January 2nd, 2009, 06:26 PM
They mentioned that he was involved with the medic. So, it looks like things changed before the Afghanistan mission. "Our" Sheppard went to rescue his fellow pilot, was shot down, but no one died from the crash. But he was unable to rescue his friend. "Alt" Sheppard went to rescue his lover, a medic, but was shot down and killed civilians in the crash. It also looks like our Sheppard was married to Nancy prior to Afghanistan, due to the time frame between that and his time in Antarctica. So, Alt Sheppard never married her, still went to Afghanistan, then things really went down hill.

By the way, does anyone know the name of the Johnny Cash song? I really want to get that for my iPod.


True, you have a point. But I really got into him on Blade, so I was hoping for some more great dialogue and the like. He definitely gave the Wraith a presence (does he have a name? Should we call him Neil the Wraith?), but I was bummed that he got shortchanged on dialogue while Todd got the best lines. Still cool performance though.

"Solitary Man" was the song.

Starsaber
January 2nd, 2009, 06:26 PM
By the way, does anyone know the name of the Johnny Cash song? I really want to get that for my iPod.



Solitary Man

Briangate78
January 2nd, 2009, 06:26 PM
I generally liked this ep. I was rooting for the wraith to eat sheppard though. Darn!

I was also expecting mulder and scully to show up...or at least Skinner. Would have been a cool X-files ep.

It was different, and still kept the SGA feel to it. I think the writing was very well done. It felt like a X-files meets CSI meet Stargate. :p

ladyjanus
January 2nd, 2009, 06:27 PM
By the way, does anyone know the name of the Johnny Cash song? I really want to get that for my iPod.

Neil Diamond's "Solitary Man"

Never knew Cash covered it. It was great...

Infernorhythm
January 2nd, 2009, 06:27 PM
Solitary Man

Thanks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdkRfb7vmUE

Michelle05
January 2nd, 2009, 06:27 PM
Here are the 3 credited songs from the episode:

"The Beautiful People" by Marilyn Manson
"Sympathy for the Devil" by The Rolling Stones
"Solitary Man" by Johnny Cash. Sniff, poor Shep.

Yanks4Life23519
January 2nd, 2009, 06:28 PM
I'm not really sure what I just watched haha. Um, it was definitely...interesting? Is that the word I'm looking for? Sure, I'll go with it. For a second to last episode of a show EVER, that was pretty bad. I wouldn't say the episode in itself was horrible, it was just [really] weird. Not a good way to lead up to a series finale at all. There were a couple good things from the episode though: Sheppard in civilian clothes/sunglasses, McKay's 'Canadian' reference, and Sheppard's car (whatever the heck it is). Now I'm usually confused during each episode but I'm pretty sure I had no idea what was going on in this one lol. I got the jist of it but when McKay talks, I'm lost. Overall, I think the idea of the episode would have been better if done in a different way. I liked that it was in a parallel universe but the way the episode was done made it seem a little boring. Joe Flangian and David Hewlett were great as always but even they couldn't make up for a poor episode.

I hope the finale goes out with a bang! Not a literal one but you know what I mean lol ;)

DJgirl
January 2nd, 2009, 06:31 PM
it's 9:47 eastern time... still 10 minutes left... but Vegas is a very large reason why i am GLAD that Atlantis has been cancelled...

boring, dull, no sense that its a "Stargate" episode, let alone a Stargate show... and since its not "our" reality i find no interest in how it turns out...

Amen to that!
I am just at a loss for words at how horrible this episode was. Let's just hope that the finale is WAY better than this was. It is scaring me that this ep is leading into the finale. *keeping my fingers crossed*

But like everyone else has said, you will either love it or hate it. There won't be much in between on this one.

Briangate78
January 2nd, 2009, 06:31 PM
I'm not really sure what I just watched haha. Um, it was definitely...interesting? Is that the word I'm looking for? Sure, I'll go with it. For a second to last episode of a show EVER, that was pretty bad. I wouldn't say the episode in itself was horrible, it was just [really] weird. Not a good way to lead up to a series finale at all.

Well the current showrunners thought there was going to be a 6th season when this episode was pitched. So yeah.

Repli!kat
January 2nd, 2009, 06:31 PM
Haven't been here in awhile, but have to say,
It doesn't get much better than this!
AWESOME episode!
So beautiful, such great acting from JF, his tragic, downtrodden Shep will haunt me for a long time.
And the others were superb too.
The music was terrific.
I can't say how great I thought this was, I may just explode from SQUEE!!!!
So much love!
Even Keller was good (just a doc, and only a doc)
YUMMMMMM Shep, McKay, Radek....
Why couldn't they all be as good as this?
Well at least I'll have something great to end my Stargate days with.

Southern Red
January 2nd, 2009, 06:34 PM
Rob Cooper, please come home. All is forgiven.

Vegas was pure entertainment, yet somehow still Stargate. The main thing to keep in mind here is that this is just one of an infinite number of universes. Everyone who might be disappointed that this Sheppard is an SOB should remember that. Somewhere he is a sweet guy who has a puppy and is married to the nurse he evidently “dated” and isn't planning to call in this universe. Just sayin'. As for me, I love this John. He's hateful, sloppy, rude, doesn't care about anything or anyone including himself and even dishonest. (He was going to take that money and run, right?) But it gave JF a chance to do his best job of face acting to date. A part of me wants to complain about how few lines he had, but they weren't really necessary. We didn't need this guy to be chatty. He got all we needed to know across with just a few looks. When Rodney was telling him his life story and making him sound like the biggest loser on the planet, you could see on his face that it was just what he expected to hear. He knew it all already and didn't care. Now here came some dude in an expensive suit yammering on about how he could help save the planet while telling him what he already knew about what a screw up he was. I'm surprised he didn't just walk out. And then later in the car when he was thinking it all through, you could just see the wheels turning and see him deciding to make his life count for something for once. A masterful acting job by Joe. Loved his look when McKay said, “Things don't always go the way we planned.” The scene where Sheppard lingered looking at the chair was great. I kept hoping he'd just touch it. That would have completely changed the rest of the episode, I fear. And speaking of which, without Sheppard's gene activating the necklace that woke up the Wraith in this McKay's universe, a completely different scenario would have had to take place. But I chose to handwave that just because I wasn't interested in nitpicking. And the female medic he tried to rescue, shows us that no matter what universe he is in, John Sheppard is profoundly changed by the loss of someone he loves. But I must say I find wry amusement, maybe even a touch of annoyance, that this alt!Shep gets more character development in this one little episode than our Sheppard got in 5 freaking years! Anyway, not mad, just pointing out stuff.

I also like DH's acting here. Rodney didn't annoy me even once. His McKay was in his own way just as big a jerk as Sheppard was. Could we surmise that never having met John and coming under his influence made him so dour and serious? Rodney, Radek and Woolsey all looked very dapper in their suits. Seriously, their universe is quite formal with the carefully styled hair and all while Sheppard just looked more rumpled than I ever thought possible. But the looks fit the characters here.

Now, I appreciate Mr. Cooper's attempt to give a nod to the Keller conflict by having John tell her that she looks too young to even be in medical school never mind being a coroner. And could the former head coroner be Carson? However, I would rather he had just left her out altogether. And of course, McKeller had to pop up. At least one shipper group is celebrating.

Then there was Todd. The same connection exists between him and Sheppard as in our universe. This Sheppard gets that have-I-seen-you-somewhere-before look on his face and Todd just zeroes in on him. Love the line “Come inside. I'll show you your destiny, Jooohhhnnn Sheppard.” John looks stunned. And then McKay says “They can get in your head.” No duh.

From the western-sounding theme music for Sheppard to the 3 songs used, the soundtrack was outstanding. Solitary Man was perfect as were the 2 songs for the Wraith. This was different for Stargate which throws some people, but once in 5 years, different is a good thing. Every time I heard that theme music for Sheppard, I kept expecting Clint Eastwood to wander into frame wearing a poncho and chomping on a cheap cigar. This Shep was very spaghetti western Eastwood to me. And that is a very good thing. JF, call your agent. Have him find out if anyone is remaking “The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.” Or maybe “Hang “Em High”.

There was very little humor. One little moment when Rodney joked about Star Trek: The Experience and Woolsey looked all sad and said “that closed” made me LOL. But all in all they were a very serious, humorless lot. The two guys from the Sopranos talking about the dogs and the finger were a stitch though.

And now for the Sheppard dies-like-a-dog-in-the-dirt scene. All in all the best scene ever bar none. Thanks once again to Joe's acting. He did what he thought he had to do and maybe he thought he failed, but his transmitter allowed them to zero in on the Wraith. And major kudos to Neil Jackson also for his fine acting throughout. It's not shown whether they send a rescue. But my theory is that since McKay told him not to engage the Wraith he assumed that John was out of the way. Having researched Sheppard so thoroughly, McKay should have expected him to disobey, but in his defense things were a bit hectic. It was a powerful scene and as long as you can keep this John separate from the John we are used to seeing it shouldn't bother you.

Can you tell I loved this one? Mr. Cooper obviously had fun playing with all his fancy toys and the CSI stuff was a tad overdone, but it didn't take away from my overall enjoyment. This one makes me wish Rob Cooper had kept control of the show and used his considerable talents to make S4 and S5 a lot better.

Sue_Jackson
January 2nd, 2009, 06:35 PM
OMIGOSH!!!! :eek: That was like the best!! :D That episode totally ROCKED!! :D First of all.....I give kudos to Robert Cooper for a well written and well directed episode! This is unlike any Stargate episode I've ever seen (both SG1 or Atlantis)! :) I love the fact that it was different. I mean.....it was very un-Stargate. But....I loved it! :D

I think they should've put CSI Atlantis in the opening title because it was a complete homage to CSI Miami. I mean.....even John Sheppard was starting sound like Horatio for awhile there. I think he might've stolen his sunglasses too. :p ;) They had many of the cliches of CSI Miami with the zooming in and SFX stuff.

I loved the whole casino stuff. I was so into this. I love the Wraith disguising himself as human. I also figured out that was the guy who played Khalek in Prototype (S9, SG1). I loved how he played the highstakes poker. Also....I loved the cameo from the guys from The Sopranos. Very clever. :D

And....it took me awhile but I did figure out that the Rodney in that reality was Rod (AU McKay) from McKay and Mrs. Miller! :D Very clever.....again! This episode was so much fun! :D

The only thing was that I wish the more of a connection with that AU with current Atlantis. But.....this did seem like a complete stand-alone. I guess that was the intention. :)

And....of course it would've been more fun if Ronon and Teyla were there in Vegas. ;)

Yanks4Life23519
January 2nd, 2009, 06:37 PM
Well the current showrunners thought there was going to be a 6th season when this episode was pitched. So yeah.

ah really? well that makes sense then lol

Vala_M
January 2nd, 2009, 06:38 PM
That was a very cool and different kind of episode!

I've never seen CSI as I'm not into those type of shows but wow! They really did this one differently.

Cool that they actually filmed in Vegas, I guess this is the first episode filmed in the United States!

I loved it! <mod snip>

The Wraith/goth getup was very cool and the makeup scene was cool. How did they get those prosthetics? What was that on his back/spine?

Smart idea to just get money from casinos and not have to do anything else.

Interesting shot of the inside of the body deteriorating during the Wraith feeding process.

Sheppard a detective and Keller was there. Woolsey was an FBI agent and I'm not sure what McKay did exactly.

So they are in Atlantis in that reality but they just came to Earth?

It seems that this episode was like "There but for the grace of god" except for Atlantis. So who was the Wraith who was in Vegas eating people? Was it Todd or not?

I really hate that they never explain how they removed the chair out of the outpost, I'm sure that it wasn't just sitting on the ground and that they had to forcibly remove it. I don't like the chair being in Nevada, they don't even have it in a shielded/special area.

The scene where Sheppard was going after the Wraith was cool. So the Wraith must have jumped about 30 ft to the ground, cracked his skull and just walked away from it? I know the Wraith can regenerate but that was just too much to believe.

Why didn't they think of testing the blood on the street from when he cracked his head on the street?

Spearmint gum! So McKay really did know everything about him!

I wonder what other alternate universe this alternate universe visited and saw Sheppard?

So Sheppard was going to keep the Wraith's money and just start over, about time they show people behaving real instead of the fake "moral" way. But he decided to go back and find the Wraith, good he did. Why didn't they just cut the power to the Wraith's trailer instead of waiting for the air attack?

So did Sheppard die or was he saved? That was the only thing I didn't like about the episode.

I think that the Wraith message ended up going to "our" reality and that is why the Wraith come in the next episode.

Vala,

ToasterOnFire
January 2nd, 2009, 06:39 PM
Huh. That was...different.

I liked the non-SGA take (CSI "homage") on the camera work. Lovely gradient filters in the outdoor scenes. Purdy desert scenes.

Beautiful People was a great choice for the wraith makeup scene (missed the best part of that song though, bummer), and the wink and nod of the Johnny Cash scene with Shep driving. Didn't care for the rest of the music, it even annoyed me in some scenes (running on the rooftop).

The Soprano actor guest spots seemed really tacked on and unnecessary.

No Ronon or Teyla really sucked. I'm sure the PTB explanation would be that in this AU they'd be in the PG and not on earth so it wouldn't make sense to see them, blahblahblahwhatevercakes, but to me it felt like another excuse to sideline them. Come on, what a great excuse to have Ronon sans awfulfakewig? Hell, even comparative SGA newbies Keller and Woolsey got at least several scenes each.

I think my biggest complaint with the ep was the pace. The plot was way too slow. I get the feeling that TPTB were going more for atmosphere with the minimal dialog and flashy photography, but I thought the story absolutely plodded at times.

Briangate78
January 2nd, 2009, 06:39 PM
OMIGOSH!!!! :eek: That was like the best!! :D That episode totally ROCKED!! :D First of all.....I give kudos to Robert Cooper for a well written and well directed episode! This is unlike any Stargate episode I've ever seen (both SG1 or Atlantis)! :) I love the fact that it was different. I mean.....it was very un-Stargate. But....I loved it! :D

I think they should've put CSI Atlantis in the opening title because it was a complete homage to CSI Miami. I mean.....even John Sheppard was starting sound like Horatio for awhile there. I think he might've stolen his sunglasses too. :p ;) They had many of the cliches of CSI Miami with the zooming in and SFX stuff.

I loved the whole casino stuff. I was so into this. I love the Wraith disguising himself as human. I also figured out that was the guy who played Khalek in Prototype (S9, SG1). I loved how he played the highstakes poker. Also....I loved the cameo from the guys from The Sopranos. Very clever. :D

And....it took me awhile but I did figure out that the Rodney in that reality was Rod (AU McKay) from McKay and Mrs. Miller! :D Very clever.....again! This episode was so much fun! :D

The only thing was that I wish the more of a connection with that AU with current Atlantis. But.....this did seem like a complete stand-alone. I guess that was the intention. :)

And....of course it would've been more fun if Ronon and Teyla were there in Vegas. ;)

The show needed to think out of the box, and we got it with this episode. I love these kind of CSI eps, you mix it up with some Stargate elements, and you got yourself a kick @Ss! ep! :p

Jackson Yee
January 2nd, 2009, 06:40 PM
As a fellow CSI fan, I thought that this episode was a great homage to what CSI has been for years. The music choices played out very well with the scenes, and the camera movements had a distinctive CSI feel to them, right down to the flyby scenes of Vegas. So much in Stargate has been done before, and Atlantis itself is guilty of recycling more than a couple of SG-1 plots. It's good to see Cooper and company try something new with the franchise, even if it's a homage to another great show.

The plot was ordinary, but the feel and directing made up for it greatly. The more interesting points of the episodes were clues leading to the series finale. We now know how the message containing Earth's location is broadcasted, and what will happen in the first half. Looks like it's going to be a battle royale to finish out the series, which is pretty much what most people wanted, right?

Here's looking forward to next week. It's been a great ride, Atlantis.

Orion Antreas
January 2nd, 2009, 06:42 PM
Not a good way to lead up to a series finale at all

You could say that, but you can also look at it as an interesting way to allude and lead into the finale. The sub-plot revolving around the Wraith long-range communication device looks like it will probably play a major role in 'Enemy at the Gate' so I look at it as a success. Is it the best way? No. I would have preferred a two parter for 'Enemy at the Gate' and have double the action that we will see next week, but this was a great episode in the direction they took thinking out of the box.


I hope the finale goes out with a bang! Not a literal one but you know what I mean lol ;)

I know what you mean and just looking at the SciFi trailer for 'Enemy at the Gate', the CGI looks amazing. The best they have ever done and the quality of the storyline/closure looks perfect for ending the series. I can't wait...

I am sad the show is ending, but I am glad to have the show end at a high state it is in and with this episode that will probably be in my eyes as the best SGA episode ever. Character development, team-action, space battles, etc. :P

Yanks4Life23519
January 2nd, 2009, 06:45 PM
I would have preferred a two parter for 'Enemy at the Gate' and have double the action that we will see next week, but this was a great episode in the direction they took thinking out of the box.


I agree. A two parter would have been perfect.

Jackie
January 2nd, 2009, 06:47 PM
It was different, and still kept the SGA feel to it. I think the writing was very well done. It felt like a X-files meets CSI meet Stargate. :p

LOL...I did have an idea a few years back to write a X-Files/Stargate cross over where a wraith found earth and was eating people. Mulder and Scully were on the trail of the wraith and they figured it out. I had a neat scene for Mulder to meet thor too.

Maybe I'll actually write it?

Starsaber
January 2nd, 2009, 06:47 PM
And....it took me awhile but I did figure out that the Rodney in that reality was Rod (AU McKay) from McKay and Mrs. Miller! :D Very clever.....again! This episode was so much fun! :D


I don't think so. Rod knew Sheppard before he jumped to "our" Atlantis reality (he said that his Shep was arrogant and in the MENSA group on his Atlantis).

DJgirl
January 2nd, 2009, 06:47 PM
<mod snip>



I like to think that I am a well educated watcher and do enjoy intelligent and complicated storylines.

In my personal opinion, I just didn't think this episode hit the mark. I found it boring and some of the scenes went a little long and could have been drastically cut down.

The one redeeming thing I found was David Hewlett. I think he was superb in this episode. This is the second or third episode this season that I think he should be nominated for an Emmy. That man can act his little heart out.

sg-1fanintn
January 2nd, 2009, 06:51 PM
I found tonight's episode different, frustrating, compelling and disturbing...all in one.

I don't generally follow SGA pre-ep chatter, so I knew nothing coming into tonight's ep except that it took place in an alternate reality.

So...my questions for those of you who follow episode development more closely...and I'll put them in spoilers just to be safe:

Are we certain that this episode was a stand alone?

Is there any chance that McKay's discussion of the effects on the alternate realities is a clue to Enemy at the Gate?

Could the fallout from this episode be what brings the Enemy at the Gate to our own?
If this is the case, I'm sure there are those of you who already know, so I would greatly appreciate some info. :)

Perhaps I should venture out of my regular threads more often. :o

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide!!! :)

Mitchell82
January 2nd, 2009, 06:52 PM
This is definitely a like it or not episode. My wife and I loved it but it definitely not a typical ep and definitely not the best idea for the second to last ep though hindsight is 20/20. I thought it was a very cool and unique episode.
8/10.

jelgate
January 2nd, 2009, 06:53 PM
I found tonight's episode different, frustrating, compelling and disturbing...all in one.I don't generally follow SGA pre-ep chatter, so I knew nothing coming into tonight's ep except that it took place in an alternate reality.So...my questions for those of you who follow episode development more closely...and I'll put them in spoilers just to be safe: Are we certain that this episode was a stand alone?Is there any chance that McKay's discussion of the effects on the alternate realities is a clue to Enemy at the Gate? Could the fallout from this episode be what brings the Enemy at the Gate to our own?If this is the case, I'm sure there are those of you who already know, so I would greatly appreciate some info.?* :)Perhaps I should venture out of my regular threads more often.?* :oThanks in advance for any info you can provide!!!?* :)Your speculation is pretty much which is going to happen based on the EATG spoilers

Mitchell82
January 2nd, 2009, 06:54 PM
I found tonight's episode different, frustrating, compelling and disturbing...all in one.

I don't generally follow SGA pre-ep chatter, so I knew nothing coming into tonight's ep except that it took place in an alternate reality.

So...my questions for those of you who follow episode development more closely...and I'll put them in spoilers just to be safe:

Are we certain that this episode was a stand alone?

Is there any chance that McKay's discussion of the effects on the alternate realities is a clue to Enemy at the Gate?

Could the fallout from this episode be what brings the Enemy at the Gate to our own?
If this is the case, I'm sure there are those of you who already know, so I would greatly appreciate some info. :)

Perhaps I should venture out of my regular threads more often. :o

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide!!! :)
You are 100% correct on your assumption. It is a prelude to the events in EATG.

Rosehawk
January 2nd, 2009, 06:54 PM
And....it took me awhile but I did figure out that the Rodney in that reality was Rod (AU McKay) from McKay and Mrs. Miller! :D Very clever.....again! This episode was so much fun! :D
I don't think this was Rod. In McKay and Mrs. Miller Rod talked about his Shepard being in Mensa and organizing Mensa events on Atlantis and assuming there is only one Rodney and Shepard to a universe, I think this was a totally different Rodney from a different universe.

I liked this episode. It was different and fun to see the characters in a totally different setting.

prion
January 2nd, 2009, 06:55 PM
This is definitely gonna be a love/hate episode, and I really really liked it. Don't know if I loved it but definitely liked it a lot.

The AU characters were fun to watch - wow, who would have known Rodney could dress so well and function so well, that is, socially (except for that snarking with Zelenka).

Shep was a broken man, just dragging through his days. It was interesting to see a "what" type scenario in which the 'what if' is if he had been courtmartialed and drummed out of the USAF?

I think the only part that dragged was the two mob-types (Sopranos actors?) going on about the missing finger.

George, the Wraith (hey, nobody named him so I have!) was very cool and fit in very well in the weird Vegas atmosphere.

serinianfire
January 2nd, 2009, 06:59 PM
:mckay:

I really love this episode! Vegas was totally different and that is one of the things that I love best. SGA is my all time favorite show. Yet, Vegas wasn't like any other SGA episode. It was that difference that made it particularly compelling and exciting to watch. The actors that I love in a completely alternate universe. Awesome!!!!!

I loved how McKay was arrogant and self conscious like the traditional McKay while also being self assured and smooth in a way that the regular McKay isn't. David Hewlett is a phenomenal actor! Go David! You have to land another series where you get to have the same range as you do in SGA!!

I also loved the tiny hint of slash from McKay about Sheppard. -He may or may not have been involved with the male medic he went back for in Afghanistan. I would have thought the SciFi channel to be too conservative to let that through. Go SciFi!

And

Go Robert Cooper! This episode was beautifully written! Sheppard was both different and the same. It was a terrific watch. Vegas also had possibly the best musical score of any SGA episode. If only you had another season of SGA to write more episodes that are just as wonderful (hint, hint).

Mitchell82
January 2nd, 2009, 06:59 PM
I don't think this was Rod. In McKay and Mrs. Miller Rod talked about his Shepard being in Mensa and organizing Mensa events on Atlantis and assuming there is only one Rodney and Shepard to a universe, I think this was a totally different Rodney from a different universe.
Agreed. This wasn't Rod at all. Shepard himself shows that it is not Rod.


I liked this episode. It was different and fun to see the characters in a totally different setting.
As did I.

Infernorhythm
January 2nd, 2009, 07:01 PM
Ok, the way I see it, there are 3 ways to view this episode, and they all contribute to the overall meaning of the story.

1. It's a CSI homage.

Oh, they took a show I usually laugh at for its over the topness (yes, the tech guys interview people, get into gunfights, and solve all the crimes while the detectives do nothing...), extracted the style, and put it into Stargate and it worked. Granted, there was a noticeable difference: unlike CSI, Alt. Sheppard worked alone, and was a bit disgraced, as opposed to a team of highly regarded individuals.

Yet, we got the Las Vegas setting, big name music, and some crazy fast paced zooms and visual motifs. And you know what? It worked. The desert setting, the poker scenes, the entire wackiness of Las Vegas, and the proximity to Area 51 all worked and fit into the Stargate universe.

As an homage/attempt at grasping a style, "Vegas" was a 5/5. Great job getting the feel of CSI.

2. A Way to Move the Plot

Ok, there's no denying Earth is a bit screwed. The Wraith now know where Earth is. We saw a crazy battle between Earth and just one Hive Ship, this looks like we'll be seeing an entire fleet. The ending set the stage for "Enemy at the Gate" in a big way. Remember how "This Mortal Coil" set things up for "Be All My Sins Remember'd"? This was a similar situation.

So we have the set up, so we don't have to worry about that going into the finale. We can just have an epic series finale. I'm sad and angry the show is ending, but that preview for "Enemy at the Gate" had me at the edge of my seat. There's no denying the series is ending on an epic scale. I for one am excited. This is going to be good.

3. A Character Study of John Sheppard
I love Atlantis, but I cannot doubt that the show has lacked on character development compared to SG-1. Don't get me wrong, we've had some great stuff, but nowhere near the level of background and development seen on SG-1. This episode was a way to reevaluate John Sheppard, both through looking at what he might have been, and who he is.

Sheppard is a tragic character, there's no denying that. His marriage fell apart, he was estranged from his family, and his attempt to save his friend in Afghanistan not only failed, but it got him a black mark and a spot in Antarctica. Even when he got to Atlantis, he lost tons of friends, including Ford and Weir, two deaths that really continue to haunt him. He's developed an obsession with making sure his friends stay safe. His sanity/stability is almost defined by his ability to keep his loved ones safe.

Here we saw a Sheppard who's life was worse. Still estranged from his family, never married, and ended up in an even bigger fiasco in Afghanistan that got his lover killed, along with civilians. He never got his chance at redemption in Atlantis, and instead became a detective with a gambling problem, little possessions, and little to live for. Yet, he had that same drive and sense of right that our Sheppard has. Todd said he had a "destiny." Sheppard died doing what he believed in, and seemed to have had a change of heart. His life was changed by Rodney telling him everything, but he didn't have anything to live for. In his death he found a new view on life.

Ultimately this shows us how lucky in a way our Sheppard is. Granted, he's had a lot of tragedy, but in the end he's been given the chance to get over his losses. Most importantly, Sheppard has a family in his friends at Atlantis. Alt Sheppard was a loner, with no one but a girlfriend in a relationship that did not seem that strong. He was a "solitary man" like The Man in Black sang. Our Sheppard has people to fall back on. "Vegas" reaffirms that Sheppard is who he is because of his relationships and friends.

And I still love this episode. Can't wait for the finale.

dallas2dc
January 2nd, 2009, 07:03 PM
Who were all the people in the poker game? I know I've seen the two guys that kept talking.

FN-P90
January 2nd, 2009, 07:04 PM
Ok just seeing the opening scene makes me beleive they should cast Joe Flanigan for the next CSI show :P

sg-1fanintn
January 2nd, 2009, 07:04 PM
Your speculation is pretty much which is going to happen based on the EATG spoilers

You are 100% correct on your assumption. It is a prelude to the events in EATG.
Thank you both! It's good to know that the holidays haven't dulled my perceptions too much.

Sigh...on to next week...

Yanks4Life23519
January 2nd, 2009, 07:04 PM
I have to say Sheppard looked mighty good in those civilain clothes ;)

Infernorhythm
January 2nd, 2009, 07:06 PM
This is definitely gonna be a love/hate episode, and I really really liked it. Don't know if I loved it but definitely liked it a lot.

The AU characters were fun to watch - wow, who would have known Rodney could dress so well and function so well, that is, socially (except for that snarking with Zelenka).

Shep was a broken man, just dragging through his days. It was interesting to see a "what" type scenario in which the 'what if' is if he had been courtmartialed and drummed out of the USAF?

I think the only part that dragged was the two mob-types (Sopranos actors?) going on about the missing finger.

George, the Wraith (hey, nobody named him so I have!) was very cool and fit in very well in the weird Vegas atmosphere.

Wasn't there already a George? Anyway I've been calling him Neil the Wraith, just cause of the actor, and it seemed to fit.

fumblesmcstupid
January 2nd, 2009, 07:07 PM
HE can't, he was already in CSI:Miami played a creep that beats up his girlfriend!

FN-P90
January 2nd, 2009, 07:08 PM
HE can't, he was already in CSI:Miami played a creep that beats up his girlfriend!

Put a beard on him :P Im just joking

Skydiver
January 2nd, 2009, 07:08 PM
Let's remember folks, the thread is for discussing the episode, it's not the place to take others to task for what they did/didn't like.

You don't have to agree with their opinions but you do need to respect them

Discuss, yes. Mock or make fun of or dismiss, no.

Infernorhythm
January 2nd, 2009, 07:08 PM
Loved seeing Zelenka and Rodney in suits (and Zelenka was cleanshaven for once!). Even Sheppard's outfit capture the rumpled, man with nothing to live for feel of his character.

Lythisrose
January 2nd, 2009, 07:09 PM
I have to say Sheppard looked mighty good in those civilain clothes ;)

oh yeah.....*fans self*

fumblesmcstupid
January 2nd, 2009, 07:10 PM
I do like him with a beard!!! :)

FN-P90
January 2nd, 2009, 07:11 PM
I do like him with a beard!!! :)

Ok how bout burn notice....or SVU or CI? :P ANy Crime show...........MONK!

SnarkofMcShep
January 2nd, 2009, 07:12 PM
Brilliant episode! One of my favorites of all time. The CSI feel, the music, the setting, the story, the acting were all awesome. This is the potential that was always there for Atlantis. Kudos to Cooper for thinking outside the box, even though I'm still angry at him for canceling the show. Great direction and writing in this. Joe Flanigan was brilliant - pulling off a completely different Sheppard, full of despair, desolation and loneliness, a man with nothing. Showed so much through the acting rather than the dialog. Loved how the episode showed how one decision can lead to two very different paths. This Sheppard with no one to focus on, no one to save, no one to save him was lost. Alt!Rodney was pompous and arrogant. Showed how the two really need each other for balance. Loved the music from Marilyn Manson to The Stones to Johnny Cash, each song fit perfectly into the story. The ending was heartbreaking and haunting. Really hit me hard! Finally, a Sheppard episode and it was worth the wait. Amazing.

Only minus is I would have liked to have had Ronon and Teyla in it. Would have been nice to have them in the episode with their real hair.

Vegas rocked!

FN-P90
January 2nd, 2009, 07:15 PM
I didnt know Wraith were total Head Banngers

prion
January 2nd, 2009, 07:15 PM
Wasn't there already a George? Anyway I've been calling him Neil the Wraith, just cause of the actor, and it seemed to fit.

Hmm, a Bob, a Todd, a Steve. Don't think there was a George yet ;)

Infernorhythm
January 2nd, 2009, 07:16 PM
Hmm, a Bob, a Todd, a Steve. Don't think there was a George yet ;)

D'oh! Got him confused with Greg the Wraith (the fan name for the Defiant One Wraith). Ok. George works, but I'm sticking with Neil The Wraith.

jyh
January 2nd, 2009, 07:16 PM
I really, really liked this episode. In fact, it would be great as a spinoff of Atlantis. ;) I don't watch CSI (or any of it's incarnations), but I know this probably resembled it. But as far as I can tell, it wasn't as cheesy as I imagine CSI can be at times.

The specifics of the plot aside, why can't the writers ALWAYS create such a tightly-written, compelling episode? Is it just the surroundings in which they set it, which may have altered the way they wrote? Regardless, I think it was a really great episode, and should lead to a wild-ride of a finale.

Two tidbits I found interesting: the wraith seemed to like hard rock/heavy metal music, and played it loudly. :p And also, who recognized the desert 'facility' where they took Sheppard as the place in which "Brainstorm" took place? I guess they got their money's worth out of renting that location. :cool:

spoiler space:
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I was hoping that at the end, when Shep was lying in the dust, either he or we would hear the sounds of a chopper coming his way, leaving us hope. In all probability, he found his redemption in his last act. (Altho it wasn't the brightest act in the world... his military training obviously didn't 'take' in this reality!)

Gate gal
January 2nd, 2009, 07:19 PM
They mentioned that he was involved with the medic. So, it looks like things changed before the Afghanistan mission. "Our" Sheppard went to rescue his fellow pilot, was shot down, but no one died from the crash. But he was unable to rescue his friend. "Alt" Sheppard went to rescue his lover, a medic, but was shot down and killed civilians in the crash. It also looks like our Sheppard was married to Nancy prior to Afghanistan, due to the time frame between that and his time in Antarctica. So, Alt Sheppard never married her, still went to Afghanistan, then things really went down hill.

By the way, does anyone know the name of the Johnny Cash song? I really want to get that for my iPod.


True, you have a point. But I really got into him on Blade, so I was hoping for some more great dialogue and the like. He definitely gave the Wraith a presence (does he have a name? Should we call him Neil the Wraith?), but I was bummed that he got shortchanged on dialogue while Todd got the best lines. Still cool performance though.

I almost wish that the medic he went back for would have been Janet (a medic instead of a doctor in this reality), but I guess that would have been like losing Janet all over again. Walter was a nice SG1 callback though.

Not a bad episode, but not exactly my new favorite. I do like the way it ties to the finale, and it is nice that it isn't our SGA's fault that the wraith find earth.

FN-P90
January 2nd, 2009, 07:19 PM
Ok i love the fact that they had 2 guys from the Sopranos. that was awsome

Mekarri
January 2nd, 2009, 07:29 PM
This show did have a CSI feel to it. I use to love CSI and Law and Order but they had some many different ones, I kinda of got burned out on both. I wouldn't hate this eps so much if it wasn't one of the last two. I just feel like it was a waste and no one really cares because as far as they are concern they have already move on to SGU. I guess if I am not doing anything I will watch SGU from time to time. But I will not get wrap up in SGU because it is obvious that the producers and writers couldn't care less what we the fans want or don't want. So therefore, I couldn't care less if SGU make it or not. I hope next week we get to see the team working together again. I think that is where they went wrong on SGA, having too many eps without team interaction. It didn't help that they got rid of Weir, Carson and Ford. When you get rid of characters that was there from the beginning it is always risky and usually turn out badly. The Keller character was never a good fit IMO and then the relationship with Rodney made it even worst. They could have spent those eps on Teyla, Ronon, Weir or any other team member but instead we got that nonsense. Thanks for nothing TPTB. If I wanted to watch people fall in love then I would be watching Life Time for women channel NOT SCIFI.

Corona
January 2nd, 2009, 07:34 PM
I liked it! I don't watch CSI so I don't get those references, but it had a little Miami Vice feel.

The visuals on the big screen HD were outstanding and the small inside jokes were funny. Especially the line on Star Trek: The Experience being closed from Woolsey.

I'll miss Atlantis.

FN-P90
January 2nd, 2009, 07:46 PM
This might sound strange but the lighting. The Lighting was good.

Shelly
January 2nd, 2009, 07:47 PM
I really did enjoy this episode. Not only did it give us the Sheppard-centric episode that "some" of us having been waiting for, but we got to see McKay in an interesting new light.
I am also a CSI fan, so the similarities were, to me, a fun and interesting part of the show. The AU Sheppard's prickly, maverick style may have been a little cliche, but I think Joe Flanigan handled the role very well. His soft-spoken style was very appropriate for a detective that has spent a great deal of his time trying to make good.
The ending left me wondering several things. Rodney and Zelenka's concerns about how much of the message got through the rift makes me wonder if this is the end of the story. And Sheppard's resignation to his death left a lot of questions, at least in my mind.
Just wish we had been given more thought-provoking episodes like this before Atlantis comes to an end.

Briangate78
January 2nd, 2009, 07:47 PM
This is definitely gonna be a love/hate episode, and I really really liked it. Don't know if I loved it but definitely liked it a lot.


It seems there was much more love than hate for this ep. Even on SCI FI it is getting a lot of praise. I just think people want something different than the 2nd to last ep of the entire series. Well blame MGM for canning the show, lol.

I love those dark and suspenseful eps. The bit about the alterntate realities was pretty interesting as well. I can see how this will set up for the finale.

Ranlier
January 2nd, 2009, 07:50 PM
Throughout the series, we've been told by writers, fans, and even Elizabeth Weir that if not for Sheppard, Atlantis wouldn't even still be standing.

Yet here we are in a world where Sheppard never even saw a Stargate, and Atlantis seems to have held up just fine. Thoughts?

Finger13
January 2nd, 2009, 07:52 PM
I love this episode more than pretty much any episode this season, save for perhaps First Contact. This definitely ranks in my top five favourite SGA episodes.

I was kind of bored at the beginning with the cheesy poker game, but starting after the chase scene with him and the Wraith, it was simply fantastic. I love the turning point for Shepperd, when it's shown that he got several people killed in Afghanistan, was a mediocre detective and had no money thanks to gambling, and was running out of Vegas with the money that he captured from the Wraith. Then he figures out how to find the Wraith, slams on the brakes, and high tails it back to Vegas.

Ugh, I absolutely loved this episode. Though, you would think they would have beamed people in using the Daedalus which was clearly in orbit and assisting in the operation. That way they would have got there immediately and could have stopped the Wraith and saved Shepperd.

Still though, I'm not complaining. This was great.

Willow'sCat
January 2nd, 2009, 07:52 PM
<mod snip>

Please, don't confuse the two. :cool::rolleyes:

One thing that did amaze me, this would have been the perfect episode to have Weir in, even if I don't like Weir I could have seen her better in this then Keller.

If they couldn't have had Torri then they could have had Jessica! :p Hell even Rainbow in this would have been something, like a full circle thing?

*shrugs*

aboleyn24
January 2nd, 2009, 07:54 PM
I liked it, didn't love it but I would say its one of the better season five episodes. It kept me entertained throughout which is more than I can say for some of the other episodes this season.

The CSI homage was clever. It felt like a completely different show, from the music to the camera angles and editing. Very little SGA in it at all. It was a creative risk that for the most part paid off.

I understand being upset since with only one episode left we get an episode that bared no resemblence to the show we tune in each week to watch. No Teyla and Ronon.

I loved seeing Todd. I also really liked the actor who played the Wraith. He was very good despite having no real lines. He had a great physical presence in the role.

I also liked seeing David Hewlitt get to play a different Rodney. He did a great job.

Joe Flanigan was fantastic. Great portrayal of a broken man.

All in all entertaining and unique to the series.

Finger13
January 2nd, 2009, 07:54 PM
Now, now just because you loved it doesn't mean it was complicated or intelligent.

Please, don't confuse the two. :cool::rolleyes:

One thing that did amaze me, this would have been the perfect episode to have Weir in, even if I don't like Weir I could have seen her better in this then Keller.

If they couldn't have had Torri then they could have had Jessica! :p Hell even Rainbow in this would have been something, like a full circle thing?

*shrugs*

The "Full Circle" comes next week ;)

serinianfire
January 2nd, 2009, 07:55 PM
Rats. In my last post I applauded the possible illusion to slashiness with Sheppard and a possibly male medic. Unfortunately I was wrong. I just re-watched the episode. This time I was paying more attention and McKay clearly said "her" in reference to the medic. Bummer. Oh well, it was still a fantastic episode!

jelgate
January 2nd, 2009, 07:56 PM
The CSI homage was clever.?* It felt like a completely different show, from the music to the camera angles and editing.?* Very little SGA in it at all.?* It was a creative risk that for the most part paid off.?* How was it clever? I saw the CSI cliches coming a mile away.

Bobby
January 2nd, 2009, 07:58 PM
I know i'm probably going to get shot for this but i thought that Vegas was the best episode ever of Stargate Atlantis!!!

Now i just want to know if anyone else agrees with me? Or at least think it was up there in the top 5?

Bobby
January 2nd, 2009, 07:59 PM
who knows maybe jack went to atlantis instead.

Lythisrose
January 2nd, 2009, 08:00 PM
How was it clever? I saw the CSI cliches coming a mile away.

You say cliche', I say homage' :)

Finger13
January 2nd, 2009, 08:00 PM
How was it clever? I saw the CSI cliches coming a mile away.

It wasn't distasteful though, they fit into the show nicely and weren't cliched, at least IMO.

The style in the intro was blatantly borrowed from CSI, but they were done in a way that didn't make me feel like I was watching some parody of CSI.

And besides, after the initial crime scene and a few tidbits of Shepperd piecing it all together, the similarities between CSI and Vegas ceased.

the fifth man
January 2nd, 2009, 08:00 PM
Really great episode, no doubt about that IMO. I really liked the different portrayal of John, even though at his core, he was still the hero we know and love.

And seeing those two guys from Sopranos was very cool.:)

This was definitely a different kind of Atlantis episode, but in a good way. I liked how they tried something different, and did it well. It was also nice that they were able to tie this episode into next week's finale.

Iawen
January 2nd, 2009, 08:01 PM
Well, that's just like all the AU worlds where Daniel wasn't at SGC but it got along just fine without him. In "our" world though, Daniel's the reason the SGC was established the way it was and when it was, etc. In our world, Sheppard saved many people and stuff, but it stands to reason in other AU worlds Atlantis would still happen without him. That doesn't make him less valuable or valued here.

hedwig
January 2nd, 2009, 08:01 PM
I guess we'll have to get shot together:D, because I agree. I can't remember an episode where I refused to leave the room in case a commercial ended and the episode started again and I might have missed a few seconds if I left the room.:) I was completely hooked throughout the episode and really didn't want it to end. About the only thing I was a tad disappointed about is that Teyla wasn't in it. But, then, Ronon wasn't either ... both absences surprised me a bit.

aboleyn24
January 2nd, 2009, 08:02 PM
How was it clever? I saw the CSI cliches coming a mile away.

Well CSI is one big cliche so how can you do a homage to it and all the other procedural that are on television without being cliche? So in that regard I took in the cliches with a sense of irony. I am probably giving them too much credit though.

Mostly I meant making a show that looked far more like a CBS show than a SciFi one was a bit of a twist on the series.

FN-P90
January 2nd, 2009, 08:02 PM
All in all a good episode in my opinion. Really good acting. Interesting and inivative storyline all around good ep to me.

Sue_Jackson
January 2nd, 2009, 08:02 PM
How was it clever? I saw the CSI cliches coming a mile away.

That was the whole idea. They always say (producers/directors in the commentaries) whenever they pay homage to a movie or a another TV show......they hang a lantern on it saying..."hey...we know we completely ripped off of this show/movie...and proud of it". It's for pure entertainment if nothing else. :)

Briangate78
January 2nd, 2009, 08:03 PM
I would not say best episode ever, but it was the better half of this season. I think people are going to be very impressed to how they tie this into the finale next week.

the fifth man
January 2nd, 2009, 08:04 PM
Best episode? IMO, no.

Top 5 episode? IMO, no.

But, it was a great episode. Very different from anything else we've seen on SGA. TPTB gambled a bit with this one, and IMO, pulled it off nicely.

Hermiiod
January 2nd, 2009, 08:04 PM
Damn good episode!

Lythisrose
January 2nd, 2009, 08:05 PM
I'll stand in line for the firing squad with you!
I can't think of a single Stargate ep that I have liked better than this one. Ever.
Even if I am still teary eyed...

Bobby
January 2nd, 2009, 08:06 PM
Thank God im not the only one! :P

Briangate78
January 2nd, 2009, 08:06 PM
Best episode? IMO, no.

Top 5 episode? IMO, no.

But, it was a great episode. Very different from anything else we've seen on SGA. TPTB gambled a bit with this one, and IMO, pulled it off nicely.

It was brilliant how they tied a real Wraith into American society. I loved how he made Sheppard fold when he had a full house. :p It was very suspenseful and dark, and I think it will tie into the finale very nicely.

Reminds me to a homage of CSI and SG-1's "There but for the grace of the gods", but done in a more clever way, imo.

Rosehawk
January 2nd, 2009, 08:06 PM
Anyone catch Brad Wright playing blackjack? :p

Briangate78
January 2nd, 2009, 08:07 PM
BTW, as per getting shot for loving this episode, may have to shoot most of the forum members, the majority here loved this episode, and not just on this forum either. :p

jelgate
January 2nd, 2009, 08:09 PM
BTW, as per getting shot for loving this episode, may have to shoot most of the forum members, the majority here loved this episode, and not just on this forum either. :pThats a pretty big generalization Brian.

Bobby
January 2nd, 2009, 08:09 PM
BTW, as per getting shot for loving this episode, may have to shoot most of the forum members, the majority here loved this episode, and not just on this forum either. :p

Really? that suprised me i thought a lot of people wouldnt like it because it was so different.

Briangate78
January 2nd, 2009, 08:09 PM
That was the whole idea. They always say (producers/directors in the commentaries) whenever they pay homage to a movie or a another TV show......they hang a lantern on it saying..."hey...we know we completely ripped off of this show/movie...and proud of it". It's for pure entertainment if nothing else. :)

It was a homage to CSI, X-files, and "There but for the Grace of the gods", which was not a rehash. They actually took a similar SCI FI concept and made it even more interesting.

Infernorhythm
January 2nd, 2009, 08:10 PM
Best episode? IMO, no.

Top 5 episode? IMO, no.

But, it was a great episode. Very different from anything else we've seen on SGA. TPTB gambled a bit with this one, and IMO, pulled it off nicely.

Agreed, not the best, but really good nevertheless.

Infernorhythm
January 2nd, 2009, 08:13 PM
Anyone catch Brad Wright playing blackjack? :p

I thought he looked familiar!

PhoenixKnght86
January 2nd, 2009, 08:14 PM
I out and out stopped watching Atlantis since Prodigal aired (Because of life for the most part and the fact I'm still annoyed at TPTB for what they did.)

I ended up watching tonight just for the hell of it. I wasn't getting the drift of this episode until the very end...

Okay, so I was like, what the hell. I agree I wondered what was going on and where was a Stargate. The whole Rodney coming out and detailing the whole story again was turning me off to the whole thing (I wasn't paying too much attention while bopping around the internet).

I like some of the rock music. To be honest, if they just out right played Cash songs for the whole thing, I would have been rather content. It if the atmosphere of the whole episode.

But back to why I'm not about to completely throw this one in my list of Stargate Episodes I Never Want to Watch Again, this whole episode was leading up to next week's finale. The Ah HAH moment struck me in Rodney's last words. So the whole episode was about the cast of an alternate reality where John never went to Atlantis. The beacon went through the rift and will bring the Wraith to Earth in next week's episode in our own reality.

It was a clever idea to get things rolling. For once the other reality screwed with us, not the other way around. About time, no?



I guess this means I am watching the last Episode. I was probably going to watch it anyway I guess.

And I agree with whoever said Terri should have made a cameo. Then again, she would have been at Atlantis and not on Earth if that be the case.

ladyjanus
January 2nd, 2009, 08:14 PM
Quick question - What kinda car does Det. Sheppard drive?

And some more raves -

Loved the shot where Sheppard is walking away from the desert crime scene and the light flares up until all you can see is the shadow of Sheppard disappearing into the glare. Cool...

And who knew Wraith had dorsal ridges? Is that just in this reality, I wonder?

I love that Sheppard's sporting a bashed-up face through most of the show and they don't explain it away. Adds an extra layer to the other realities theme of the ep...

Two words - GARY JONES!!! He needs to be in SG:U as well, don't you think? Keep his streak going?

My vote for coolest shot of the whole ep goes to the scene when the big, honking planes are flying away after shooting the crap out the Wraith's lair, crossing across the screen so close you can see the detail on the bellies of the planes. Outstanding...

CreativeGenius40
January 2nd, 2009, 08:22 PM
What the heck was that? I can't tell you how disappointed I was in this episode, the writers, and cast of SGA. It's the next to the last episode of the series and they pawn this crap on us. So, they were canceled and they just decided to throw together something? Didn't have any money left for effects so they had to shoot an on-location, earth-based episode. I typically like alternate reality stories and movies but it just didn't work here. Everyone seems to have loved it... you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I just felt like we were shortchanged. A great show is coming to an end and they give us CSI:Atlantis. Some have said they were just trying to have some fun at the end of the series but I think it was a waste of airtime.

Finger13
January 2nd, 2009, 08:24 PM
Quick question - What kinda car does Det. Sheppard drive?


I believe that it was a Camaro. Not sure about the year, probably 70's-80's?

Briangate78
January 2nd, 2009, 08:27 PM
I believe that it was a Camaro. Not sure about the year, probably 70's-80's?

He should of drove...

This Camaro! :p

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w232/ziztruluv/camaro-bumblebee-1024x768-1.jpg

Finger13
January 2nd, 2009, 08:28 PM
He should of drove...

this Camaro! :p

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w232/ziztruluv/camaro-bumblebee-1024x768-1.jpg

Yeah haha, that's the kind of car that someone $16,000 in debt drives :P

Briangate78
January 2nd, 2009, 08:29 PM
Yeah haha, that's the kind of car that someone $16,000 in debt drives :P

I think that car goes for like $40,000 so yeah maybe not. :p

Orion Antreas
January 2nd, 2009, 08:30 PM
Anyone catch Brad Wright playing blackjack? :p

Yup, and Robert C. Cooper was seen in the background facing towards the camera playing at the same table as Wright. It was hard to see, but you can make it out as Cooper. :P

MattZat
January 2nd, 2009, 08:30 PM
I have to say this may work its way into my Top 10/15 episodes of all time for SGA. It's tough to assess an episode so unique like this in the exact same context as other SGA episodes, but they did a wonderful job tying it in to our familiar reality at the end. I was hoping at first the Rodney we met was "Rod" but then remember in his reality Shepherd was still on his team. That said, i loved the nod to the rift in space-time. Also, there were lots of nice easter eggs, nods to fan complaints (Keller), cameos, and so forth. Visually, the episode was fascinating, and it's a shame to see that sort of production talent was utilized even a little more throughout the series run. That said, i loved the service this episode did to set up the final episode of the series with EATG. Also, it was great that "Vegas" was also a commentary on the persona of John Shepherd, and his destiny to be heroic in some shape and form. Loved the appearance of Todd (definitely a little creepy - excellent job by Christopher heyerdahl). I was extremely pleased.

also, i am sharing this in here as a theory because i am desperately trying to avoid EATG spoilers from people who've seen it, but in the previews for next week, it think we see Atlantis flying in space. I would think it'd be a neat twist for the finale if Atlantis came to earth, though that would require some SERIOUS power.

Anyway, kudos to everyone involved in Vegas. I thought it was very well done.

Zman51
January 2nd, 2009, 08:36 PM
I am glad that this is one of the final episodes because if it was a pilot for a new show it would be in serious jeoprody of being cancelled for being a repeat of every other Vegas Detective show that has ever been done with the only exception being the villan is an alien. Another way to look at it would be to say that Atlantis has just jumped the shark. Thankfully it won't drag on after this, I don’t think that they can ruin the whole series just because the second to last episode was horrible, but I am sure they will try with the final one. I really don’t understand why the producers and directors have to screw these shows up. This is almost as bad as the Battlestar Galactica Webisode where the two male characters kissed for absolutely no reason. I guess the upside to this is that atleast they didn’t have Sheppard and McKay making out…..yet.

dasNdanger
January 2nd, 2009, 08:50 PM
Both loved and hated the ep. It was VERY well-done...the soundtrack kicked, the editing was sharp, the whole edge feel to the show was spot on. Loved the Wraith revelations - the protruding spine, the nippleless chest: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasNdanger/00000109.jpg

And this Wraith was what ALL Wraith should have been from the beginning - strong, hard to kill...silent, smart, sexy...well...they've all been sexy ;) ...and a true threat.

However, he was also a sympathetic character, and so - as a Wraith fan - I couldn't help but feel for him when he was flashing back to the destruction of his hive. He was angry, desperate to be rescued...he was just doing what he needed to do in order to survive. Any of us would have done the same (well...maybe not the eating people thing, unless we were adrift in a lifeboat for a month or so at sea...). I have a secret little hope that he jumped out of that trailer at the last minute...and is just unconscious. Soon he'll wake up and suck what little life is left out of Sheppard. ;)

And AU Todd. What can I say - I hate what was done to him, and it killed me to see him like that, though I kept reminding myself that it wasn't 'our' Todd. Still, I see a similar fate for our Todd...I really doubt that the writers/creators intend to keep him alive. They prefer to kill things.

Still, we got a little insight into the workings of a Wraith mind. The busy comment reminded me of 'busy bees' - I've always thought of the Wraith as unsettled, always doing something during their waking years and not content to just sit back and relax. Also thoughts of hope, hunger, and defiance tasting like life itself...all nice insights, but in a very depressing setting.

The episode was great - but dark, and in the end, too depressing for me to walk away from it with a good feeling.

That's all for now. Overall, as good as it was, it has me down. Me and depression are old pals, and when a tv show starts making that 'friendship' worse...well...yeah. It's probably a good thing that it's almost over.


das

NomadGnome
January 2nd, 2009, 08:51 PM
An alternate reality can have infinite possibilities. So given the fact that Sheppard is a homicide detective, the Wraith came to Earth, and Woolsey is an FBI agent, I say it's fair to assume that enough differs from the 'normal' reality that either Sheppard wasn't needed or someone else took his place in saving Atlantis all those times.

Wardog117
January 2nd, 2009, 08:53 PM
I don't know about best episode ever, but I thought it was absolutely brilliant. I loved the plot and its tie in to next week's episode. I would have to say the best episode of season 5 still goes to "The Shrine", with this coming in a close second.

NomadGnome
January 2nd, 2009, 08:54 PM
Why not they have a new series : "Stargate CSI: Vegas"?


Funny you mention that, the original working title for the episode was 'CSI Atlantis'.

http://gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/519.shtml (first bullet under 'news and spoilers')

NomadGnome
January 2nd, 2009, 08:55 PM
It's definitely in my top five! The music sold it for me.

ScifigirlSG
January 2nd, 2009, 09:07 PM
Anyone catch Brad Wright playing blackjack? :p

yep. :) I thought I was seeing things at first. :p

fumblesmcstupid
January 2nd, 2009, 09:12 PM
I am in the "Shep lives" at the end.. universe! :)

revenant
January 2nd, 2009, 09:12 PM
Kudos to Joe Flanigan. Call me a fangirl, but I thought he was terrific in this alternate reality. Johnny Cash poster and song tie-in to the story broke my heart.

McKay was less whiny in this reality and Woolsey was more decisive - fun to see.

hedwig
January 2nd, 2009, 09:17 PM
I believe that it was a Camaro. Not sure about the year, probably 70's-80's?

Reminds me of the car James Garner drove in "The Rockford Files".

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
January 2nd, 2009, 09:23 PM
i thought it was a really good episode. i like the music and plus i felt like this really like part one of a two part episode.

Atlantis1
January 2nd, 2009, 09:26 PM
Yup, and Robert C. Cooper was seen in the background facing towards the camera playing at the same table as Wright. It was hard to see, but you can make it out as Cooper. :P

Joel Goldsmith was in the poker game as well.

dasNdanger
January 2nd, 2009, 09:27 PM
Did anyone catch 'David Magee' on the glass when Sheppard is talking to Rodney? LOL...I had to google who that was...


das

TameFarrar
January 2nd, 2009, 09:29 PM
lol

if you're gonna spoof csi, at least do it 'right'

the driving rock music was annoying to the extreme, the wraith knowing how to apply hollywood quality makeup? not likely.

rodney was annoying to the extreme - as per usual.

it was just bad. cheesily bad.

it was like it was a 'see mr glassner we can do your csi' flavored with a couple snarks at the fans and reminded me of a few too many 'low budget grungy shootemups' movies from the 80's
:D...well since I know both you and I like our CSI...it does make it a bit hard to watch someone try to copy it into the Sci Fi genre LOLOLOL:)

But after I got over that....and the whole cliche *Loner Detective who beats himself up daily* I actually really got into this episode :D

Being the Hard Rock Chick of the Mod Team has its advantages...I knew all the music :D Buwhahahaha and since I am married to a Country geek I even knew the Cash tunes.

So for me not only was the episode basically just fun, it rocked :D In all actuality I wish they would use more of today's music in the show, it really gave the scenes a different feel.

The wraith guy was cool and again a very cliche *Silent but deadly bad ass* but still cool :) All the jazz with the make up and walking over the dead guy from next door was all really perfect for the character.

I can't say I was all that impressed with how they brought McKay and Woolsey into things. I didn't buy McKay as a *Bad Cop* to Woolsy's *Good Cop* so they might have done a bit of different editing there to help that part of the story along. But I liked how they brought the John of this AU up to speed on things and Todd was brilliant, I don't think its easy making psychotic believable to begin with and then to do so while made up as a wraith and I don't even care for the Wraith all that much.

The shooting and editing overall was really good, with the cuts and music. The Make Up WOW!! the guy who played the young Wraith looked amazing down his back and such. Great attention to detail!! :)

The couple of scenes that made me roll my eyes were the poker game and the same ole same ole McKay/Zelenka bicker-fest. I thought the snap-shot B&W shots a bit of over kill and I could done without the Sopranos and I am so beyond sick of McKay and Zelenka bickering that I had to go get coffee at that moment.

Overall though I am really glad that they tried to do an earth based episode with some flair and drama and they tried some new editing as well as music to pump things up. So I am really happy with this episode :)

Nemises
January 2nd, 2009, 09:42 PM
can i have the last 60 minutes of my life back please?

complete and total self-indulgent drek

you should have known that the episode was a "nothing episode" after reading our posts on the leaked episodes.

wm_1987
January 2nd, 2009, 09:50 PM
What were all the differences in the Vegas universe compared to our universe with John?

I caught that in Vegas he never married and that the Afghanistan fiasco was because he went after a medic that was probably his girlfriend, where ours went after Holland.

Was there anything else? It would have been nice to get all this back story on our John and not an alternate one.

TameFarrar
January 2nd, 2009, 10:15 PM
Folks this thread is for discussion of VEGAS ONLY please confine your comments to this episode. If you would like to comment on the final episode we have the speculation thread for those who have NOT seen it and the Unsanctioned thread for those who have.

Thank You
TameFarrar
GateWorld Moderator

Chuck in Phoenix
January 2nd, 2009, 10:15 PM
What a fantastic episode! A little bit SGA, CSI, with a little Quentin Tarentino at the end.
The CSI aspect was dead-on. The way the scenes were framed, the camera positions, where the actors were positioned, the way their faces were lit on one side and in shadow on the other, and the yellow lens in a scene was straight from CSI Miami.
The music also was incredible! Great choices! It went well with every scene. Sounded great in surround!
I also enjoyed seeing the two actors from the Sapranos.
And it's always good to have the Wraith Todd in any episode. After all, he's the only Wraith with the design around his eyes that looks like Ace Frehley from KISS.
I love "in jokes". The reference to "Star Trek The Experience" being closed when speaking to Robert Picardo was a nice touch.
When I saw the previews for this episode, it wasn't clear how in the world this alternate reality would be justified. After watching it three times, I finally realized that this was actually the reality of the Rodney McKay from the previous episode where he made a machine to pull power from an alternate reality and ended up pulling his doppelganger through. This is the doppelgangers reality. Pretty creative!
This was entertaining on many levels.
It's too bad the Emmy Awards don't recognize such creativity on science fiction shows.
Congratulations on an excellent episode!

Ruffles
January 2nd, 2009, 10:23 PM
This is an episode I need to think about. My first impression - I liked it. But I need to let it soak in, to really think on the implications.

Good stuff
* CSI homage - I'm a fan of the original CSI and I liked the camera techniques used here

* Joe Flanigan - my 50" plasma smoked every time he was on screen *fans self* His portrayal of this broken, weary Sheppard was terrific. He was stiff, withdrawn. All of the casualness and charm was missing. Most telling to me was the little smile as he drove off with the money in the front seat. Then McKay's words got to him.

* David Hewlett - he was hot in that suit. I loved this McKay (I love the regular one too). This one was snarky still but confident, put together. No panic or frantic handwringing. I could see him being the leader of a team. He pushed when he had to and didn't back down. I thought the wedding ring was a nice touch.

* David Nykl - an ep is automatically better when he's in it. He really cleans up well. I just adore him.

* Todd - again, as always, he makes everything better. Creepy, demented, and a joy to watch onscreen

* George the Wraith - particularly that make up scene. I was fascinated that the tattoos were on his back along with those ridges (didn't notice the lack of nipples until das pointed it out - thanks!). And manipulating their minds to win at poker was pure genius. I really liked the way they used his POV to show the attack and how he got there (and how miserable he was).

I loved this look at Sheppard - how tiny changes can have such an impact. This man was so broken that he was basically a shell. He still got up every day to chase bad guys, but he was simply existing instead of living. I liked how this was a story of his redemption and sacrifice. He almost missed it. But the John Sheppard that risked everything to save someone he loved hadn't been completely destroyed yet. He turned the car around and did the right thing.

I found the choice to not tell us if Sheppard lives or dies an interesting one. Why leave it ambiguous? Cooper could have easily written him gasping for breath, closing his eyes, his chest stilling. He could have also written him gasping as helicoptors land or the Daedalus beams him up (my personal canon on the ending). Instead he leaves us with Sheppard alone, staring into the starfilled sky with Solitary Man playing. To emphasize his sacrifice? To show we won't know the next thing that happens in this particular reality? To give us something to talk about on here? :P

I choose to believe Sheppard lives because he's Sheppard and McKay is McKay. Rodney knew John was out there. John would know they'll have to clean up the scene. John is tough enough to hang on. His car has a locator beacon on it. The Daedalus is in space. He's the only life sign around. They saved him. I'm sure of it. :D

Nice set up for next week. A part of me is super excited. The other part of me cried every time they said "Tune in for the next to last episode" all day today. *hugs show*


What were all the differences in the Vegas universe compared to our universe with John?

I caught that in Vegas he never married and that the Afghanistan fiasco was because he went after a medic that was probably his girlfriend, where ours went after Holland.

Was there anything else? It would have been nice to get all this back story on our John and not an alternate one.

Our Sheppard did not get anyone else killed and was not dishonorably discharged. This Sheppard got 4 (?) military and 8 civilians killed trying to rescue his girlfriend. Our Sheppard comes from money. This Sheppard is in debt up to his eyeballs to Mikey (McKay doesn't mention anything about Sheppard's family in this ep so I assume his background is different).

sg-1fanintn
January 2nd, 2009, 10:24 PM
Reminds me of the car James Garner drove in "The Rockford Files".

Yeah...it was a mid- to late-70s, early 80s Camaro or Firebird. I didn't catch whether it was a Chevy or a Pontiac, but I'm sure someone else will catch that on second viewing.

Really great episode, no doubt about that IMO. I really liked the different portrayal of John, even though at his core, he was still the hero we know and love.

And seeing those two guys from Sopranos was very cool.:)

This was definitely a different kind of Atlantis episode, but in a good way. I liked how they tried something different, and did it well. It was also nice that they were able to tie this episode into next week's finale.

I thought it was cool seeing Brad Wright, MGM's Charles Cohen and Stargate musical composer Joel Goldsmith in the poker scene.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
January 2nd, 2009, 10:39 PM
call me a sheppard/weir fan but im thinking that maybe that field medic was Dr. Weir.

ventuscarmen
January 2nd, 2009, 10:49 PM
This episode was fantastic! I was hooked from beginning to end - it was definitely CSI-esque with a bit of an x-files feel and seeing the alternate reality characters and how they interacted was unbelievably entertaining. TPTB were brilliant with this episode!

I do have to pick on some of the CGI, but budget limitations are understandable...

As far as ranking, I have to say this goes in the top twenty for my combined sg-1 and atlantis favorites :) which will soon be complete when atlantis airs its final...

EvenstarSRV
January 2nd, 2009, 10:50 PM
As a homage to CSI I think this episode worked, but as the second to last episode of Atlantis I was quite disappointed. Had this been a stand-alone episode earlier in the season I probably would have enjoyed it much more.

I enjoyed the different filming techniques and locations, and enjoyed the Cash song at the end, but it often felt like the stylistic moments came at the expense of plot progression and coherence.

As the second to last episode the extreme focus on Sheppard was frustrating in part because I don't care much for the character, but mostly because I was hoping to see much more of the whole cast.

Still, I'm looking forward to the finale next week, where I hope the whole team gets a good showing, though that may be difficult with the guest stars.

ltcarter47
January 2nd, 2009, 11:01 PM
Wow, I was so excited to get some new Stargate after the break, and they give me Vegas? I'm sorry, I just hate these kinds of episodes. It's like the last episode of Star Trek Enterprise. They fast forwarded to a future date where the characters were totally different from the characters I had grown to love over the previous 4 years. Now Stargate gives me alternate universe versions? OK, maybe it would have been enjoyable if they were, I don't know, traveling through stargates? I feel cheated somehow. Oh well, I'll wait patiently until next week. I'm sure it'll be back to normal. *sigh*:(

Ishshah
January 2nd, 2009, 11:22 PM
The episode Vegas was definitely CSI-esque and in my opinion it was downright fantastic! I loved every aspect of it, the music was well chosen; the way it was filmed, the sets, the actors (so handsome in suits and ties) the cameos by Brad Wright, poker pro Todd Brunson, Atlantis composer Joel Goldsmith, and MGM exec Charlie Cohen.

Thank you Robert Cooper! Just absolutely awesome! It has replaced my favorite for this season! Vegas freaking ROCKED!!! Now I am even sadder that there is only one episode left! But I am grateful that the DVD’s will soon be available and we still have The SG Movies and SGU the series to look forward to in 2009! Wahoo!!

Cheers

Ishshah
January 2nd, 2009, 11:41 PM
I know i'm probably going to get shot for this but i thought that Vegas was the best episode ever of Stargate Atlantis!!!

Now i just want to know if anyone else agrees with me? Or at least think it was up there in the top 5?

I agree with you a 100%!

It was utterly awesome and unique! I loved it from beginning to end!

Wish there was more!

Cheers

zodden
January 2nd, 2009, 11:43 PM
I understand why some wouldn't like this as it goes outside the box for normal gate episodes. I LOVED it! I never watched CSI but I understand the comparison. I think this was one of the better episodes of the series. Tight directing, editing, camera work, writing and acting. Great work overall and more suitable to a 2 hour movie than a 1 hour episode.

Shame this is going away when they just showed us how good they can be. We don't always need space battles and non familiar locals to make good stargate. Vegas works just fine for me.

Khentkawes
January 2nd, 2009, 11:44 PM
I really wanted to like this episode. I did. I was looking forward to something different, innovative, and fun. I'm still waiting for it.
And seriously, I normally love Rob Cooper's work, but this one seemed like a decently innovative idea that quickly turned out to be all flash and no substance.

The lighting, flashy effects, weird camera slow downs, white outs, etc... all overdone. They could have been much better if they were used sparingly. The poker game was definitely the worst example of this. It was actually painful to watch.
The same goes for the music... which was not to my taste, but would have been fine if it was toned down a bit.

Sheppard... um, yeah, wasn't real keen on the acting here. I felt like it could have been both played and written much better than it was. As it was, it felt so predictable and lone ranger-ish that I just didn't care about Sheppard. And the ending was just about the biggest cliche ever.

I'll admit, Sheppard looked great, but I need more than eye candy to keep me interested. Actually, the whole episode seemed like an attempt to be visually stunning, and sometimes it came close, but mostly the visuals were irritating and distracting. And it was also painful slow in the plot department.

The Good Stuff (I didn't completely hate it... just mostly) -
- I was about to write the episode off, but then McKay came in. He was terrific. I liked how different this McKay was. And I would have liked to explore that more. I really wanted to see how different this reality was, so the scenes with Woolsey, McKay, and Zelenka were engaging.

- the other big high point was Todd. His scene was the one truly creepy and striking moment for me. It was very well played and his odd little phrases were great (I do give Rob points for writing that scene. Very well done).

- Two funny moments:
Sheppard saying Keller didn't look old enough to be out of med school. ;)
And the Star Trek joke with the Wraith impersonating a Klingon (and of course Picardo got in on that one :)).



My one complaint was that Neil Jackson didn't get to act. He just growled and shot at Sheppard. I mean, he was so amazing as Khalek in "Prototype," and here he felt wasted. I was really looking forward to his performance. Oh well. :(

That was Neil Jackson?! What a waste of talent. If you're gonna cast the guy, give him something fantastic to work with (amazing doesn't begin to describe his performance as Khalek).

morjana
January 2nd, 2009, 11:45 PM
Wow! An excellent episode. Kudos to Joe Flanigan and David Hewlett for their superb alternate reality acting. And Christopher Heyerdahl's Todd is always a delight.

Many thanks to Robert Cooper for a fantastic episode -- it almost makes up for the drek of Unending...almost.

And thanks to Las Vegas for it's a role as a stand in for...Las Vegas. The 4th floor of The Bellagio -- my mom's 30 year gambling addiction paid for that floor.

Lorr
January 2nd, 2009, 11:47 PM
I enjoyed the episode a heck of a lot more than I thought I would. I had to watch it twice to get some of the little things. Some cheesiness, yes, but overall very good. I like that there are AUs out there were Sheppard does get lost and has to redeem himself. I think the fact that, despite his personal life its a mess, he goes into a job where he is still trying to make a difference. He could have been a drunk, become a recluse or any number of things, but he's still trying to function is some capacity.

This episode was spun long before they knew about the cancellation. It was set up as the lead in to the "season" finale that turned out to be the series finale. I beleive it is a far better episode and far more related to the Stargate than Brain Storm. Just because we didn't see the Gate or that it wasn't used doesn't matter. It was about the ultimate fear of the humans - the Wraith find Earth.

While being AU, Vegas explored Sheppard's character more than any other episdoe in the previous 98 episodes, even Outcast. Vegas showed how much of an effect an attempt to something good gone horribly wrong had on him. He lost his love interest and a bunch of people died, and was no longer able to do the thing he loved most - fly. It also showed that the basic strength and decency of the man was still there. It just needed the opportunity to get out. It showed he was able to out think Rodney and the whole SGC in that he found the Wraith, both early on and at the end, just because he paid attention and thought about it. He showed how adapatable he was when he didn't completely freak when Rodney revealed all that to him and when he saw the Wraith get up and walk away after being shot several times then jump off a roof several stories high.

I enjoyed seeing the calm, thoughtful Rodney, even when he was still being mean to Radek. BTW, what did they to to Radek's hair?!!! It was poofy in the back!

I thought the actors did a brilliant job, especially Joe Flanigan. It may not have been the best story or script, but he was jaw-droppingly amazing. And, jaw-droppingly gorgeous, but that's beside the point. If this doesn't get him another series, I will wonder at the collective lunacy of the people in charge of such things.

I don't see that this was CSI-SGA. It was set in Las Vegas, yes. We were in the morgue for the autopsy for, what, 45 seconds? But that was the end of the similarities really. A lot of shows have the "edgy" editing and music, not just CSI. They had to set it in Vegas for the Wraith to be able to fit in. Well, San Francisco might have done in a pinch. His makeup might have been developed over time so that he fit in better. Also, money buys anything. He might have been paying off humans to help get the makeup and the prosthetics. Were we told how long he'd been there? At least a month? Maybe more since we know he buried some of his early victims.

I am sad about the fact there was no Teyla or Ronon. Their roles have been so reduced in so many eps. However, this was supposed to be the Shepisode of S5 according to Joe Mallozzi. At least we got one.

jkmcguinness
January 2nd, 2009, 11:57 PM
I thought this episode to be pointless. I had hoped in the ending of these great tv series I would find a captivating and exciting near end that builds to a seasonal finale.

Kevin

AutumnDream
January 3rd, 2009, 01:01 AM
haha, wow. that was really stupid. and embarrassing. gj.

*rips off csi for no apparent reason*

the "creative choices" these producers make amaze me more and more all the time.

jiklar
January 3rd, 2009, 01:08 AM
I've been watching Stargate for twelve years of my seventeen year life. This episode has finally made it sink in that it's over. I know Universe is coming up but I'm waiting to see if I'll like it. Yeah there's going to be movies and the new series but for the first time since I was six there won't be Stargate. There will be a chunk of time between the new stuff that hasn't been there before. I'm not counting the breaks in between seasons. I'm basically admitting that I'm a pussy but I freaking cried at the end of this episode knowing what comes next.



Stargate Fanboy for Life

Linzi
January 3rd, 2009, 01:20 AM
I'm not usually a fan of alternate reality episodes, so I went into Vegas feeling nervous. I mean Sheppard is my favourite character and his only centric episode is an AU, where RCC is playing around doing CSI:Atlantis??? On paper it sounded disastrous to me.


Yet, I totally loved Vegas. I sat back and just got pulled into the episode. I felt Vegas was a fantastic showcase for Joe F and that he MADE the episode work. I loved his brooding, troubled and dark Sheppard; so easily this could have been how our Sheppard turned out. I loved that one incident, in Afghanistan, changed his life, as it did in our Sheppard's reality. Only in the alternate version Sheppard didn't fare so well. I thought Joe was given plenty to work with and he really sold AltSheppard to me. I think the episode showcased Joe's incredible talent briliantly and I hope a producer somewhere is casting for a brooding, dark cop in a new show now.

I loved Neil Jackson's wraith. He was so beautiful. I loved seeing his spine! I loved seeing him apply human make-up! He scared the heck out of me, yet he was a creature of beauty. What a bizarre thing!

I liked this version of Rodney. He had compassion towards Sheppard. These two men were destined to meet in any reality, IMO, and this McKay recognized Sheppard's potential. And as McKay said, this Sheppard saved their Earth.

I liked the way this story is linked to the finale. It made it all worthwhile, IMO and linked it well, IMO.

I liked the plot, the way everything came together. I did think on occasion the camera effects were a little overdone, but overall I loved where RCC took the episode.

I do think AltSheppard died. Just listening to Johnny Cash singing 'Solitary Man' when Sheppard lies dying at the end says to me Sheppard wasn't saved and that he died alone - sniff! But I actually liked that. It would have been so easy for him to have been saved and I think that would have been too convenient and unsatisfying - and a little boring. Happy endings don't always serve a story well, IMO. For Sheppard to die alone, after heroicially saving his Earth seemed fitting to me. This dark, debt-ridden Sheppard WAS a hero in the end. It may have taken McKay to push him in that direction - talking about the alternate Sheppard he'd met who was so much more than this Sheppard - but this Sheppard came through when it mattered. He turned his life around and sacrificed himself somewhat to do the heroic thing. I did like that this Sheppard was dark. I liked he took the money from the wraith's hotel room. I liked he embarrassingly admitted as much to McKay.

These two Sheppard's had taken different paths owing to the same incident. They weren't alike, yet they were as well. For me, Vegas is a shining example of what SGA can achieve; something different, unique and something extremely satisfying for this Sheppard and SGA fan. Believe me, I'm amazed I loved it, but I honestly did.

I read that JF said Vegas was the hilghight of season 5 for him. I well understand why. Congratualtions to Joe and RCC. Vegas rocked baby! :D

Edit: Damn! Forgot to mention the music! I absolutely ADORED it. Rolling Stones, Marilyn Manson, Johnny Cash.... woo hoo!

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
January 3rd, 2009, 02:05 AM
Yeah Joe Flanigan Really Did a Good Job in this Episode I think this is best performance in Season 5 by far. He also had some good performances in Search and Rescue, Ghost in the machine, The Shrine, Whispers, and The Prodigal. i cant wait to see him in Enemy at the gate. Favorite part of this episode was where sheppard resigns and he starts to have those flashblacks and he returns to do the right thing the fire fight between The wraith and Sheppard was cool.

CazzBlade
January 3rd, 2009, 03:34 AM
I adored this episode :D It felt really fresh and had me captivated throughout.

Joe F was fantastic in this ep. I really liked how we could see the similarities/differences between Det. Shep and Col. Shep and the implications that meant for our Shep. I even liked Keller in this ep :eek: :P

Superb posts both Lorr and Linzi :)

ndnxo6
January 3rd, 2009, 03:36 AM
this was a dissapointment.
so close to the end of atlantis. and for what?
to move the story along for a small piece of info?

it was good effort. nice try. csi thing just didnt work out. sg is good at sci fi, like someone said before, they didnt hit the mark.
some parts, like short flash forwards, when they blank the screen... i dont kno, it just wasnt right. ive seen a few csi of my own, it just wasnt it.

for the end of atlantis, this was not up to par. interesting story, poor presentation.
worst part, this doesnt build on the story line. since its an alternate universe, and we wont ever visit it again. oh sure we get to meet sheperd more, but really now. this episode was not exciting. was not too much of a twist either. guessed what was going to happen easily.

again focus on the alternate universe part. its just like the family guy movie where stewie kills lois. but it doesnt matter, because it was all in virtual reality. sure now the wraith know where earth is in the actual non-alternate universe, but couldve been better.


SCORE:
:):(:(:(:(
1 happy face and 4 sad faces.

AnalogSun
January 3rd, 2009, 03:45 AM
An original take on an AU story. Very good, not perfect, but one of the best SGA episodes.

Cool:
- Surprisingly good setting. Las Vegas, an external set. It worked well.
- Badass McKay.
- Clinical and mysterious Stargate command.
- Scarier characterisation of the Wraith.
- Shep. Shep is just the epitome of cool. :cool:
- Well done tie-in to a previous AU McKay ep.
- McKeller was done well.
- Keller was likeable.
- Managed to keep the humour.
- The A10's raining high velocity metal love.
- *cough* The nurse, in the white dress. You know who I mean :p :D

Quibbles:
- Some CGI was iffy.
- Really should have been a two parter.

This would be an appealing introduction to SGA for more "mainstream" viewers (RE: BW's recent Q&A at JM's blog)

lommit
January 3rd, 2009, 04:04 AM
I can see that people will either love it or hate it, it sure was different!
But 180 degree change of opinion here,
This episode was probably the best SGA ep I have ever seen. From the music, to the mood, to the acting, it was mesmerizing, I couldn't tear my eyes away.
It was heartbreaking, brilliant and I sure as heck wish they would have spun this off as a series instead of 90210!
I honestly have no words to describe how much I liked it, and (since I watched it a week ago, bad me) how it left me emotional for days after viewing.
See, everbody's tastes are different!!! ;)

i agree! that was the best Atlantis ep. they really did it great! music,mood,the acting was wicked.finally a episode where i got a real stargate feeling.
now i cant wait to the last ep

hisg1fans
January 3rd, 2009, 04:23 AM
Vegas gets a '10' for one reason and one reason only........


I LOVE WARTHOGS!!!!!!!!!!!

A-10 - Best aircraft ever. (Well, after the P-51D anyway :o) OK. Second best aircraft ever!!!!!!!!!!

Good to see Walter is available in every reality ;)

Again. Messing around with something completely unrelated in the second-to-last episode. Why am I surprised? Time to pull the plug. My guess is this episode slot could have been used to make a really good 'last two-parter' for the series. Now, we'll get something next week that is rushed and unfinished. Oh well.

Did I say I loved Warthogs! :)

(Trying to be positive here moderators :))

ssgtdotcom
January 3rd, 2009, 04:35 AM
just disappointed!

AmyE
January 3rd, 2009, 04:42 AM
i agree! that was the best Atlantis ep. they really did it great! music,mood,the acting was wicked.finally a episode where i got a real stargate feeling.
now i cant wait to the last ep

What alternative universe an I living in now?? :(

~Dave
January 3rd, 2009, 04:48 AM
I enjoyed the episode very much. One thing I don't understand, though. With all the resources McKay had at his disposal, he could not even send a med-evac helicopter out for Shepard? The A-10s destroyed the trailer during daylight hours, and Shepard was still alive at dusk. That's gratitude? LOL!

*edit* The A-10 Thunderbolt II was named after the WWII aircraft that had the same kind of mission. The P-47 Thunderbolt.

~Dave

Southern Red
January 3rd, 2009, 05:26 AM
call me a sheppard/weir fan but im thinking that maybe that field medic was Dr. Weir.

I wasn't going to mention that, but now that you did. :p It would be a nice parallel.

I also restrained myself from squeeing over the hotness that was JF/JS in this one. But if I may be shallow for just a moment, he was hotter than that exploding sun in Echoes. Rumpled and scruffy and cranky is definitely a workable look for him.

Sp!der
January 3rd, 2009, 05:44 AM
well i am on holidays in the us, and its the first time i could watch an episode of atlantis on tv, so i actually did it ^^.
i saw it with my family and they were surprised that there were actually no atlantis or stargate in it. so they kinda liked it ;)
i like dectective stories or smth like that so yeah i really loved this episode.
I really loved it how Johnny Cash was mentioned throughout the episode, there you could see that there was some connections with our shepperd. I loved it when they played solitary man.... it was awesome.
it wasnt stargate but it was great, cant wait for next week.

x Varda x
January 3rd, 2009, 05:55 AM
I like to think that alt-Sheppard didn't die at the end ;) Thought they left it a bit open there.

I loved this episode: the metal music, different style of camera work, the extra snarky and bitter McKay and the profound ending

:eek: Woolsey just condemned multiple alt-Earth's to their doom and he doesn't care :eek:

prion
January 3rd, 2009, 05:57 AM
I enjoyed the episode very much. One thing I don't understand, though. With all the resources McKay had at his disposal, he could not even send a med-evac helicopter out for Shepard? The A-10s destroyed the trailer during daylight hours, and Shepard was still alive at dusk. That's gratitude? LOL!


~Dave

You'd think that if nothing else, they'd go out there to pick up all the pieces before say, the power utility folk show up and go WTF? and say "What's this weird piece of whatever (alien equipment remnant)?" Maybe the sun goes down really fast in Vegas?? *cough* If nothing else, he sure lasted quite a while after being shot. A dramatic, lonely scene but yeah, I think most fans are going wondering the same.

Meanwhile, for those who didn't like Shep (even an AU version) dying, there's a great tag up at http://kristen999.livejournal.com/207821.html%22

prion
January 3rd, 2009, 06:01 AM
:eek: Woolsey just condemned multiple alt-Earth's to their doom and he doesn't care :eek:

Well, Alt-Woolsey only cares about his Earth (at present, remember, he made a sort of add-on remark). Which is realistic. What can they do for all the AUs out there? Can't exactly send a candygram with "oh by the way, we made a mistake. oops. wraith know where earth is." Good thing it'll take 'em eons to get there... ;)

JadedWraith
January 3rd, 2009, 06:01 AM
I like to think that alt-Sheppard didn't die at the end ;) Thought they left it a bit open there.

I loved this episode: the metal music, different style of camera work, the extra snarky and bitter McKay and the profound ending

:eek: Woolsey just condemned multiple Earth's to their doom and he doesn't care :eek:


:tealc:Ours is the only reality of consequence:tealc:
Harsh but pratical. And it wasn't directly Wolsey's doing. Nothing he chose or could control.

Open ending, maybe. But overall quite dark. I mourned the Wraith. But that's just me;) I loved Shep, too, for once.



Wow, I looooved the soundtrack. Perfect.

Dr Lee
January 3rd, 2009, 06:16 AM
Anyone catch Brad Wright playing blackjack? :p

Highly Ironic IMHO with the decisions he and MGM have made regarding SG:A and SG:U....Also, did ya spot Jerry Goldsmith during the poker game?


He should of drove...

This Camaro! :p


I think that car goes for like $40,000 so yeah maybe not. :p

More like $400,000.... Theres only one or two of those concepts around...

Anyway... onto the episode.

Wow.... very different to ANYTHING i've seen SG do before, yes they tried to whole *characters in a different job* thing before... but the way this was put together beats Changling hands (and suckers) down.

the only CSI i've seen is a minute of CSI:NY so i didn't get all the little nods to the shows as other people did.

The music..... this is the second time TPTB have used 'mainstream' music in an episode.... and both times they've chosen music perfect for the scenes it's overlaid. That Johnny Cash song at the end was....Wow.

Definately up there in my top ten episodes of SG:A.... maybe even the top five.


part of me says... ROLL ON EATG!... then i remember that it's the final one... so i'm not looking forward to it either...

rsanchez
January 3rd, 2009, 06:18 AM
I think this was one of the best episodes this season, and a perfect setup for Enemy at the Gate. We got a good story set up and resolved in one episode, and it left an interesting question for the next episode. I loved how in the first part they showed Detective Sheppard and their Wraith doing their business, and then their storylines converged. Then it was a cat and mouse game between Shep and the Wraith. Another interesting thing about this episode is how quickly a Wraith can assimilate into Earth society. He wasn't happy to be here, but in a way Earth was his Disneyland. From the money he got off his first victim, he was able to win even more from poker to finance his scheme. John finally caught up with him at the poker table, and that's when we learn what happened.

My favorite parts were the flashbacks to the Wraith attack three months earlier. We saw the Wraith ship pummeled with drones and dogfights in the space over the U.S. With this sneak peek, Enemy at the Gate looks to have one of the best ship battle scenes ever in Stargate, up there with BAMSR and Camelot. The truth is revealed to Sheppard and we even saw Todd held prisoner. Todd's poetic lines added a nice touch and an ominous warning for Sheppard. After, in true detective style, Sheppard puts all the clues together, and finds the Wraith. The shootout scene fits the Western style music that was played for Sheppard, and then the destruction of the Wraith's device was pretty cool. Sheppard's death to Johnny Cash was also nice. The activation of the device also provides an interesting link to Enemy at the Gate, making the episode more than just a one-off AU episode, and making a good episode great.

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 06:19 AM
I don't know about best episode ever, but I thought it was absolutely brilliant. I loved the plot and its tie in to next week's episode. I would have to say the best episode of season 5 still goes to "The Shrine", with this coming in a close second.

This ep was one of the best of the season, not the best episode ever, but it was up there. This episode gave the show more dynamic and depth to it. This showed that Atlantis can think out of the box and produce a totally different episode.


:D...well since I know both you and I like our CSI...it does make it a bit hard to watch someone try to copy it into the Sci Fi genre LOLOLOL:)

But after I got over that....and the whole cliche *Loner Detective who beats himself up daily* I actually really got into this episode :D

Being the Hard Rock Chick of the Mod Team has its advantages...I knew all the music :D Buwhahahaha and since I am married to a Country geek I even knew the Cash tunes.

So for me not only was the episode basically just fun, it rocked :D In all actuality I wish they would use more of today's music in the show, it really gave the scenes a different feel.

The wraith guy was cool and again a very cliche *Silent but deadly bad ass* but still cool :) All the jazz with the make up and walking over the dead guy from next door was all really perfect for the character.

I can't say I was all that impressed with how they brought McKay and Woolsey into things. I didn't buy McKay as a *Bad Cop* to Woolsy's *Good Cop* so they might have done a bit of different editing there to help that part of the story along. But I liked how they brought the John of this AU up to speed on things and Todd was brilliant, I don't think its easy making psychotic believable to begin with and then to do so while made up as a wraith and I don't even care for the Wraith all that much.

The shooting and editing overall was really good, with the cuts and music. The Make Up WOW!! the guy who played the young Wraith looked amazing down his back and such. Great attention to detail!! :)

The couple of scenes that made me roll my eyes were the poker game and the same ole same ole McKay/Zelenka bicker-fest. I thought the snap-shot B&W shots a bit of over kill and I could done without the Sopranos and I am so beyond sick of McKay and Zelenka bickering that I had to go get coffee at that moment.

Overall though I am really glad that they tried to do an earth based episode with some flair and drama and they tried some new editing as well as music to pump things up. So I am really happy with this episode :)

I think it was brilliant how they took a Wraith and incorporated him into modern America. It was a glimpse of what is to come if the Wraith do reach earth. They may not do a massive culling since Earth is huge and is heavily populated. They could very well try to blend in and all become poker players. :p

It was good to get a different kind of episode.

MechaThor
January 3rd, 2009, 06:19 AM
This was an amazing Episode and was very well directed (apart from them annoying white flashes they kept doing all the time). Infact it did not feel like a true Atlantis epsiode and more like a movie.

The Muisc on this epsiode was great to, especially since I am a Metal fan, so hearing some Metal was a nice change from the norm.

Also we not only go some great insights into Shepard but also the Wraith. We learnt they can read minds more clearly than has been shown before (not including Queens), we saw thye have no ears and we saw that they like poems :cameron:

Morrolan
January 3rd, 2009, 06:20 AM
I enjoyed the episode very much. One thing I don't understand, though. With all the resources McKay had at his disposal, he could not even send a med-evac helicopter out for Shepard? The A-10s destroyed the trailer during daylight hours, and Shepard was still alive at dusk. That's gratitude? LOL!

~Dave

McKay thought Sheppard was dead. Sheppard wasn't in communication with the group and I believe McKay knew Shep would bust in guns blazing. His remark about how Sheppard saved earth was very somber in tone, like he knew Shep didn't make it out alive.

I love how Shep gets shot, just looks down, and then is like "oh damn!" and runs behind the car. Classic.

Rac80
January 3rd, 2009, 06:33 AM
Highly Ironic IMHO with the decisions he and MGM have made regarding SG:A and SG:U....Also, did ya spot Jerry Goldsmith during the poker game?

..
I am too lazy to read the other pages sorry if someone else has mentioned this:
I spotted Brad Wright playing blackjack. maybe because i have recently watched some extras from continuum...he stuck out in my mind. I rewatched that snippet three times to make sure it was him ;)

dvall
January 3rd, 2009, 06:40 AM
They could have made that a 2-hour movie!!!! AWESOME! Just like a summer blockbuster.

sweetsamurai
January 3rd, 2009, 06:44 AM
:(

Unbelievable. I think Robert is seriously earning himself a pat on a back for this one.

I believe he is trying to make me rip my arm off and whack him with it because he's finally made me crack.

I watch Stargate Atlantis because I want science fiction, not a bad episode of Moonlight mixed with some CSI.

I had an awesome dream last night; all action and funny dialogue. Can't believe that my dream was far more entertaining than this episode.

Yes, Robert, I'm glad your showing the world your talents at directing but if you want to jump into mainstream television, then go ahead; but why on earth would you take the last few episodes of Stargate Atlantis, the TV show you cancelled, because you didn't care for it anymore, and make it the most awful episode of Stargate ever.

The only decent thing from this was watching Joe be sexy, but all he needs to do is stand in front of the camera, you don't need a genius director to get that one right.

The script itself was boring. We know about Wraith, so why talk to us like we are 5 years old learning our first wraith lesson. There was nothing intelligent with the dialogue.

Let's throw in some Marilyn Manson music, that will make it cool. No, not quite.

Penultimate episode of one of my favourite Tv shows and I'm not given the chance to say goodbye to my team. Ronan, Teyla, Sheppard, Mckay etc....thank you so much Robert.

RObert and Wright have seriously lost what they had and Universe is not safe.

I would have rather brush my teeth this morning with a SAW then have watched this episode.

It's not a question of you either love or hate it. I abhor this episode not because it was some cheesy detective movie but because the injustice of the cancellation only becomes more ridiculous and mocking after watching this piece of DREN.

I don't say this because I'm up myself, but I really CAN write better than this and I mourn SGA. I'm in the process of watching the amazing and genius SGA Season 1 in order and am truly loving every episode. What happened? Did I wake up one morning and change, not quite understanding Stargate all of a sudden? Or is it that I demand intelligent writing for my money and time?

So the wraith are coming to attack Earth....let the wraith meet Robert, I say.

fuchsia
January 3rd, 2009, 06:57 AM
I am too lazy to read the other pages sorry if someone else has mentioned this:
I spotted Brad Wright playing blackjack. maybe because i have recently watched some extras from continuum...he stuck out in my mind. I rewatched that snippet three times to make sure it was him ;)

Yup, I saw him too Rache!

I am also too lazy to read back:p.... but I thought the field medic was Carson and that when Rodney said 'involved' he meant that John and Carson had been a couple... but then again they couldn't be openly gay in the military, right? Okay:o, I've talked myself out of it now:D!

Oh and did anyone manage to see what John was wearing on a chain around his neck... was it a cross?

naonak77
January 3rd, 2009, 07:00 AM
If only they could produce all episodes this good, with the music and the different locations, and shooting style. Because it took a really bad episode and made it ok.

Pandora's_Box
January 3rd, 2009, 07:24 AM
What an episode.

I thought the use of CSI-patented shots (including the zoom-in on evidence and whatnot) over-used. I thought the "feel" and the attitude of the episode was so un-Stargate, it was jarring.

The McKay-Zelenka bickering felt forced. I thought the writers worked too hard to make Shepard an anti-hero...so much so that he was very nearly a cliche, and that they made him too predictable by virtue of the stereotype they'd cornered his character into.

Mostly, I was disturbed by the lack of Teyla and Ronon in the second-last episode of the series, but Keller was present for (what seemed like) a gratuitous McKeller inclusion.

The ending was obvious and the only thing that sort of saved it was that Sheppard was left to die alone in the desert. A poetic end for a character who's attempt to save the life of a loved one had ended in a seemingly ruined life, not only for himself, but several other people as well, and who'd more than likely go unrecognized for saving the lives of millions.

Honestly, the only good things about that episode were the music and the ending.

And the best thing about the ending was that it meant the CSI mockery was over.

As smoldering hot as JF was, I thought he was wooden. Maybe they were trying too hard to portray the "my life is an empty shell and my heart is hollow" jazz.

It was useless. Identity all over again, only it used spiffy photography and cool music to disguise that fact. TPTB attempted to distract us with with the pretty, pretty lights of Las Vegas, an AU label, and a "new" Wraith threat, but forgot to bring Stargate into the equation. And in their grande attempt to create "teh awesomest episode that ever awesomed", they forgot a third of their main cast as well.

It was a gimmick from start to finish.

nub
January 3rd, 2009, 07:34 AM
havent seen this yet. it may have been interesting as a mid season filler but as the penultimate episode??? if its unrelated to the main plot why do we want to see this at this stage?
i mean how are they gonna finish all this off when the previous episode (identity) was good but also pretty much irrelevant to the storyline

Dr Lee
January 3rd, 2009, 07:44 AM
Had TPTB have known that this episode was to be the penultimate one a lot sooner than they did i would be certain that it wouldn't have gone like this.

Skydiver
January 3rd, 2009, 07:48 AM
The couple of scenes that made me roll my eyes were the poker game and the same ole same ole McKay/Zelenka bicker-fest. I thought the snap-shot B&W shots a bit of over kill and I could done without the Sopranos and I am so beyond sick of McKay and Zelenka bickering that I had to go get coffee at that moment.

Overall though I am really glad that they tried to do an earth based episode with some flair and drama and they tried some new editing as well as music to pump things up. So I am really happy with this episode :)

yeah. I think you've put your fingers on a large chunk of why i'm growing to not being able to stand rodney. he's a complete and total ass to zelenka. It's not fun to watch. he's mean and arrogant and annoying and would SERIOUSLY benefit from zelenka popping him one.

It's like ranting Rod, a schtick that's funny every once in a while but has been overplayed to death. Zelenka whacking him woulda redeemed it a bit.

I like stuff more understated and less 'in your face', and i felt that a lot of htis was wham cram in your face.

I miss teyla and ronon. Why couldn't they have at least been poker players and something instead of the stunt casting of 'mobster of the week'?


you should have known that the episode was a "nothing episode" after reading our posts on the leaked episodes.

I choose to watch the episodes relatively unspoiled so i can form my own opinion. :)

btedford
January 3rd, 2009, 07:56 AM
well I enjoyed this episode. I liked seeing the alternate universe, what was different between it and OUR universe, how our characters were different. I did enjoy the CSI take on it. Now if they knew a lot earlier that this was Atlantis' last season then I think they may have put a different episode in it's slot. But they didn't know that Atlantis was ending until they were filming Infection and they were done writing all the episodes. But I really did enjoy the ending where Sheppard dies trying to stop the wraith and I really enjoyed the Johnny Cash song "Solitary Man" at the end while Sheppard was driving. "Solitary Man" really fit that universe's Sheppard and I'm glad they used it.

Achaja
January 3rd, 2009, 08:01 AM
Does anyone think it was very well directed episode? Robert C. Cooper made it brilliantly:) The shots, these on the desert, from road perspective and these from chasining the Wraith! Excellent work! Also the colours was very warm and the climate of the movie was just as in these NCI series:) The man showed us his professionalism!

btw - even when I'm Martin Wood fangirl:rolleyes:

~Dave
January 3rd, 2009, 08:15 AM
McKay thought Sheppard was dead. Sheppard wasn't in communication with the group and I believe McKay knew Shep would bust in guns blazing. His remark about how Sheppard saved earth was very somber in tone, like he knew Shep didn't make it out alive.

I love how Shep gets shot, just looks down, and then is like "oh damn!" and runs behind the car. Classic.

Thought he was dead? A hero doesn't even merit a "look-see"? No "get out there and see if Sheppard made it"? To me it was un-realistic. Then again.......

~Dave

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 08:16 AM
It's interesting, I am reading 5 "Best Ep ever" or "This ep was Brilliant" posts in a row followed by one worst episode ever. Talk about two ends of the spectrum. Not a bad ratio at all for the 2nd to last ep of the series. I had a feeling this was going to happen with this episode. You give the fans something different and people take it to all different sorts.

bobsuncorp
January 3rd, 2009, 08:48 AM
I loved this episode. Don't anybody doubt that. It was funny, dramatic, it had action, great directing, it seemed to evoke a modern day wild west type vibe.

However.

This was not Stargate Atlantis.

This was what I felt to be the equivalent of 200 in SG1 terms, although I must say that Vegas was far, far superior. It did feel a bit too self indulgent even so though, I felt like the creators of the show had just decided to have fun with their jobs before they had to go back to the serious business of progressing the plot to a satisfactory conclusion.

The only plot point in this episode was that the Wraith be sent a signal from Earth informing them of its location. Thats it. The entire rest of the episode was an excuse for the actors to play different roles, the director to play around with cool camera tricks, flare's of light, desert scenes, overhead crane shots from wierd angles showing a big explosion, so on and so forth.

Again I want to stress that I liked all that stuff. I found the episode highly enjoyable, and probably the best filler episode I've ever seen. But it wasn't Stargate Atlantis. It was the Outer Limits featuring Detective John Shepherd.

Crazy Tom
January 3rd, 2009, 08:50 AM
If they could manage to inject the same sense of new-ness into SGA, then I'd be happy.

jckfan55
January 3rd, 2009, 08:54 AM
I really wanted to like this episode. I did. I was looking forward to something different, innovative, and fun. I'm still waiting for it.
... but this one seemed like a decently innovative idea that quickly turned out to be all flash and no substance.

The lighting, flashy effects, weird camera slow downs, white outs, etc... all overdone. They could have been much better if they were used sparingly. The poker game was definitely the worst example of this. It was actually painful to watch.

Sheppard... um, yeah, wasn't real keen on the acting here. I felt like it could have been both played and written much better than it was. As it was, it felt so predictable and lone ranger-ish that I just didn't care about Sheppard. And the ending was just about the biggest cliche ever.
You've summarized my feelings quite well.
Self indulgent came to mind watching this ep. :(

prion
January 3rd, 2009, 08:59 AM
Thought he was dead? A hero doesn't even merit a "look-see"? No "get out there and see if Sheppard made it"? To me it was un-realistic. Then again.......

~Dave

Woolsey, being the bureaucratic type that is, would have had a team swarming over the area instantly to scoop all evidence of alien infestation. Blowing up the trailer does NOT, repeat, does NOT guarantee all evidence of George the Wraith is gone. All you need is one hand, a head, etc. for Grissom's team (hey, the real CSI!) to find and they'd go "who, this isn't human, WTF?" So, a team should have been out there post haste, sealed off the area, made up a nice story on oops, terrorist attack, and be done with it. So, in that respect, although Shepaprd might have died, a chopper could have arrived seconds later and they could have revived him, but then again, if he was dead when they arrived, they might assume, dead too long, so....

but i don't think the wreckage would burn THAT long. someone somewhere said the sun sets really quickly in palm springs (and yeah, I suppose this would all depend on what time of year this took place too, summer? winter?) so it might have been 20 minutes, not two hours, and help could have arrived. I'd think this AU McKay would do something as he's the only one on the AU team who actually had faith in this Sheppard.

Apollo214
January 3rd, 2009, 09:17 AM
This episode goes right up there with the great classics of Stargate.

season 5 has to be the best of Atlantis, its going out on a great note.

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 09:34 AM
This episode goes right up there with the great classics of Stargate.

season 5 has to be the best of Atlantis, its going out on a great note.


Are you kidding me?

Just kidding! :p This episode truly rocked!! :cool: Green for you! :)

Morrolan
January 3rd, 2009, 09:43 AM
Thought he was dead? A hero doesn't even merit a "look-see"? No "get out there and see if Sheppard made it"? To me it was un-realistic. Then again.......

~Dave

McKay sees everybody as below him. He also suffers from big picture syndrome where he develops tunnel vision. I think it was very realistic that McKay showed he was impressed, but wasn't really concerned about the person.

Remember that McKay didn't know Sheppard in this reality. If he had, the National Guard, the Red Cross, and the Foreign Legion would have been dispatched to find him. In that reality, Sheppard was just a tool that helped McKay's team avoid an invasion.

dasNdanger
January 3rd, 2009, 09:46 AM
yes, it was beautifully self-indulgent! That's the one thing I loved about it - especially as a Wraith fan. Maybe that's the problem - this ep was really about the Wraith, and so, if you don't like them, it would fall flat for you.

But here's what we learned...

Wraith do not have nipples. :D
They do have a protruding spine.
They ARE green all over!
They are self-conscious about their ears...lol (might explain the long hair! Okay, I'm joking about that one).
The like to play games, and have the mental abilities to be good at them (something the other writers fail to get right over and over again).
They are highly adaptable, quick learners (see above RE: Writers).
They know when to keep quiet.
They are driven to survive.
They can hope.
They like good music. :D
They (at least some) do feed for pleasure (which reinforces my idea that feeding brings them the most pleasure in life, and sex - if they even experience it - is secondary. I find it quite refreshing that an entire species of males is more obsessed with food than with boobs).
They can drive an old truck.
They are snappy dressers even in earth clothes.
Some are bad poets. ;) (We all know Todd has the soul of a poet, so it was nice to see it even in crazy, AU Todd)
They fear (it was the impression I got when 'Spike' ran from the poker game. Animals have a fight or flight response - Spike took to flight...literally. It tells us both how scared he was, and how determined he was to survive. Two things that only serve to make me more sympathetic towards Wraith in general, and Spike in particular).


I loved this Wraith and what was revealed about him, and Todd, and Wraith in general. HOWEVER, I continue to loathe the so-called 'heroes'. They had obviously tortured Todd in the good-ol' fashioned American way, and had no qualms about it. They knew he was an intelligent, sentient being, and yet were willing to let him starve with smug indifference. Human feeding? WHY do they do it? It's how they survive, ya fool! It's how they eat! God...you would think the writers/creators never were hungry a day in their lives. :rolleyes: (I really hope Todd gets out of that cage, and sucks the life right out of Rodney...then the rest of them. For some reason, I think he will...). But despite all the great insights we are getting into the Wraith, they still are merely the villains to be disposed of, instead of advancing their relationship with humans to a new level (with feeding abilities intact), while introducing new villains to be used as cannon foder.

And yes, it could be done with a little imagination, and another season. But, alas, all we have is the movie, and I'm sure it will be used to end the show - and the Wraith - permanently, just to be rid of the whole thing. Shame, too...because Wraith have so much potential - a small tip of the iceberg was shown in this episode. So much more could, and should have been, done over the past seasons.

So, yeah - it was self-indulgent, and I thought, very well done overall - the music, the editing - very edgy and cool. Lots of info in the ep, too, lots to glean from the details given if you just take the time to look, and listen.


das

prion
January 3rd, 2009, 10:04 AM
McKay sees everybody as below him. He also suffers from big picture syndrome where he develops tunnel vision. I think it was very realistic that McKay showed he was impressed, but wasn't really concerned about the person.

Remember that McKay didn't know Sheppard in this reality. If he had, the National Guard, the Red Cross, and the Foreign Legion would have been dispatched to find him. In that reality, Sheppard was just a tool that helped McKay's team avoid an invasion.

However, to argue that (stamps feet (cuz they're cold), tossing empty Kleenex boxes futilely across the room (to stop the cat from scratching the rug) :D , I would point out that this Rodney is not OUR Rodney. He's the leader of the SGA team (from what I can figure) and thus, may actually care more about others. He was impressed enough with an AU Sheppard he met to theorize that maybe his Sheppard had the same integrity.

I gather this point will be bandied about quite a bit :)

hedwig
January 3rd, 2009, 10:19 AM
I watched the episode again and notice that Rodney is wearing a wedding ring. Didn't notice it the 1st time I watched. Wonder if he and Jennifer are married in this reality. Not that that particular "ship" is of any significance to me. Just thought it was interesting to see Rodney wearing a wedding ring.

Major lee adama
January 3rd, 2009, 10:36 AM
i've never seen csi but i did like this style episode

nice that Sheppard went on a suicide mission at the end mirroring his true self from the alternate reality

Woden
January 3rd, 2009, 10:39 AM
One of the best episodes, superb music and also the Sopranos guys made my day!

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 11:01 AM
Does anyone think it was very well directed episode? Robert C. Cooper made it brilliantly:) The shots, these on the desert, from road perspective and these from chasining the Wraith! Excellent work! Also the colours was very warm and the climate of the movie was just as in these NCI series:) The man showed us his professionalism!

btw - even when I'm Martin Wood fangirl:rolleyes:


This episode goes right up there with the great classics of Stargate.

season 5 has to be the best of Atlantis, its going out on a great note.


i've never seen csi but i did like this style episode

nice that Sheppard went on a suicide mission at the end mirroring his true self from the alternate reality


One of the best episodes, superb music and also the Sopranos guys made my day!


yes, it was beautifully self-indulgent! That's the one thing I loved about it - especially as a Wraith fan. Maybe that's the problem - this ep was really about the Wraith, and so, if you don't like them, it would fall flat for you.



So, yeah - it was self-indulgent, and I thought, very well done overall - the music, the editing - very edgy and cool. Lots of info in the ep, too, lots to glean from the details given if you just take the time to look, and listen.


das

5 superb reviews back to back. Green for all of you!!! :cool:

Infernorhythm
January 3rd, 2009, 11:09 AM
As much as I loved the episode, I do agree with many people who feel that as the second to last episode, it's pretty lacking. However, as pointed out, it was pitched and approved before they found out the show was being canceled, so I can't hold it against them.

Self-indulgent? Sure? Fun? Hell yes!

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 11:13 AM
As much as I loved the episode, I do agree with many people who feel that as the second to last episode, it's pretty lacking. However, as pointed out, it was pitched and approved before they found out the show was being canceled, so I can't hold it against them.

Self-indulgent? Sure? Fun? Hell yes!

We can blame Brad Wright now since he clearly stated he did not want to produce 40 eps again. Oh well , the finale should hopefully be good, but 40mins is surely going to be crammed in there.

Infernorhythm
January 3rd, 2009, 11:15 AM
Haha! I just noticed that at the very end, when George the Wraith is standing over Sheppard, before he decides to feed on him, he just throws down his guns in a kind of "are you kidding me? You're an idiot" way to Sheppard. It was very exasperated. Still bummed Neil Jackson didn't get any lines, but the man's good at physical acting.

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 11:17 AM
Haha! I just noticed that at the very end, when George the Wraith is standing over Sheppard, before he decides to feed on him, he just throws down his guns in a kind of "are you kidding me? You're an idiot" way to Sheppard. It was very exasperated. Still bummed Neil Jackson didn't get any lines, but the man's good at physical acting.

Yeah, that was a great scene. Because Sheppard kept him occupied they were able to destroy the array, but not quick enough to prevent it from tearing a hole in the space time continuum and allowing the signal to go to alternate realities......gotta love SCI FI. So that is likely how the finale will start off.

JackHarkness_Hot
January 3rd, 2009, 11:21 AM
I did wonder is this alternate John Sheppard, the gay one?

He did not even fraternise with the ladies, even the cute nurse and though the field medic that he wanted to go back to and rescue (in this alternate universe) could be a female and not a male, hence making him distant from the females, but the field medic could equally be a man. I believe in the latter cos of this one dialogue.

Sheppard: "That's it? You're just gonna let me go?"
McKay: "That Field Medic, the one you defied orders to go back to try and rescue. You knew him personally. You were involved."

But then, I could be so wrong!

Generally, this episode was an interesting take, the casino scene wasn't one of my favourites, but the story was very good and entertaining. Can't wait for next week. :)

Pandora's_Box
January 3rd, 2009, 11:22 AM
I watched the episode again and notice that Rodney is wearing a wedding ring. Didn't notice it the 1st time I watched. Wonder if he and Jennifer are married in this reality. Not that that particular "ship" is of any significance to me. Just thought it was interesting to see Rodney wearing a wedding ring.

My theory is that they're having an affair.

That look they shared in the hallway as she walked by him was way smoldering and the "affair theory" just works for me with regard to how dark the rest of the AU was portrayed.

At least, that's my theory.

jelgate
January 3rd, 2009, 11:26 AM
So my question is where Ronon and Teyla the Wraith's first victim or do they not exist in this reality?;)

prion
January 3rd, 2009, 11:30 AM
Haha! I just noticed that at the very end, when George the Wraith is standing over Sheppard, before he decides to feed on him, he just throws down his guns in a kind of "are you kidding me? You're an idiot" way to Sheppard. It was very exasperated. Still bummed Neil Jackson didn't get any lines, but the man's good at physical acting.

He got to scream at the end ;) Sometimes less is more, and with Wraith, that's definitely the way to go. You don't know what they're thinking.

lcshepp
January 3rd, 2009, 11:38 AM
I thought McKay referred to the medic as "her".





QUOTE=JackHarkness_Hot;9503340]I did wonder is this alternate John Sheppard, the gay one?

He did not even fraternise with the ladies, even the cute nurse and though the field medic that he wanted to go back to and rescue (in this alternate universe) could be a female and not a male, hence making him distant from the females, but the field medic could equally be a man. I believe in the latter cos of this one dialogue.

Sheppard: "That's it? You're just gonna let me go?"
McKay: "That Field Medic, the one you defied orders to go back to try and rescue. You knew him personally. You were involved."

But then, I could be so wrong!

Generally, this episode was an interesting take, the casino scene wasn't one of my favourites, but the story was very good and entertaining. Can't wait for next week. :)[/QUOTE]

JackHarkness_Hot
January 3rd, 2009, 11:40 AM
A gay man can dream, lol.

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 11:41 AM
So my question is where Ronon and Teyla the Wraith's first victim or do they not exist in this reality?;)

How can Teyla and Ronon be in an alternate "Earth" reality episode? It would of not fitted with the episode. If this was in the pegasus galaxy or we saw the SGA team alternate Mckay was talking about then I would think Ronon and/or Teyla would be there.

Atlantis1
January 3rd, 2009, 11:41 AM
I thought the episode was alot of fun. It looked like they may have tried to shot it with less money. (Trying to save for the big finale?) I enjoyed seeing an alternate version of Sheppard even though I don't like alternate universe shows. It was like "What if things had not gone so well with his incident in Afghanistan.

I laughed when he handed the box of his belongings to his boss and took the time to take the poster out. That poster has almost become a trademark of Sheppard.

jelgate
January 3rd, 2009, 11:43 AM
How can Teyla and Ronon be in an alternate "Earth" reality episode? It would of not fitted with the episode. If this was in the pegasus galaxy or we saw the SGA team alternate Mckay was talking about then I would think Ronon and/or Teyla would be there.They have gone to help solve problems on Earth before in our reality so wouldn't they do the same in the AU.

Skydiver
January 3rd, 2009, 11:44 AM
How can Teyla and Ronon be in an alternate "Earth" reality episode? It would of not fitted with the episode. If this was in the pegasus galaxy or we saw the SGA team alternate Mckay was talking about then I would think Ronon and/or Teyla would be there.
if a wraith can get tossed across two galaxies and find his way to earth and learn how to apply hollywood quality prosthetic makeup, they could have found roles for ronon and teyla had they wanted to.

I think it woulda been a trip to have ronon a waiter serving the wraith drinks at the poker game and to have teyla be a card shark. it'd have been a great opportunity to allow both of the actors to appear as themselves - ie sans wigs

a missed opportunity to let the 'team' come out and play instead of the, imho, overused favored characters

Pandora's_Box
January 3rd, 2009, 11:47 AM
if a wraith can get tossed across two galaxies and find his way to earth and learn how to apply hollywood quality prosthetic makeup, they could have found roles for ronon and teyla had they wanted to.

I think it woulda been a trip to have ronon a waiter serving the wraith drinks at the poker game and to have teyla be a card shark. it'd have been a great opportunity to allow both of the actors to appear as themselves - ie sans wigs

a missed opportunity to let the 'team' come out and play instead of the, imho, overused favored characters

I agree and that's exactly what I was thinking.

If TPTB would have really wanted to, they could have done it.

Hell, I would have loved to see an AU Teyla playing in that poker game, all decked out in evening wear or something.

EvenstarSRV
January 3rd, 2009, 11:49 AM
How can Teyla and Ronon be in an alternate "Earth" reality episode? It would of not fitted with the episode. If this was in the pegasus galaxy or we saw the SGA team alternate Mckay was talking about then I would think Ronon and/or Teyla would be there.

If an AU earth episode could include the Wraith, I don't think it would have been too much of a stretch to also include Ronon and Teyla.

I may not have heard it right, but I thought McKay told Sheppard that he'd just come back from Atlantis in the Pegasus galaxy to deal with the new Wraith threat. So I think it's possible that they could have scripted Teyla and Ronon as coming back with him to help track down the rogue Wraith, especially Teyla who would have been able to sense him.

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 11:51 AM
if a wraith can get tossed across two galaxies and find his way to earth and learn how to apply hollywood quality prosthetic makeup, they could have found roles for ronon and teyla had they wanted to.

I think it woulda been a trip to have ronon a waiter serving the wraith drinks at the poker game and to have teyla be a card shark. it'd have been a great opportunity to allow both of the actors to appear as themselves - ie sans wigs

a missed opportunity to let the 'team' come out and play instead of the, imho, overused favored characters


I agree and that's exactly what I was thinking.

If TPTB would have really wanted to, they could have done it.

Hell, I would have loved to see an AU Teyla playing in that poker game, all decked out in evening wear or something.

Another member said in another thread...

How can Teyla and Ronon show up at Earth when it was Sheppard who invited both of them to join the team and endorsed them to his superiors to join the expedition in the real Atlantis reality?

It just would of been forced and too cheesy. This way it looked real.

This Sheppard never joined the Atlantis expedition. Mckay and Zelenka did.

gioia
January 3rd, 2009, 11:54 AM
I enjoyed much this episode. It might be different style, admitting it was nothing alike a general Atlantis episode but still I liked it. Never been fan of criminal investigation show, or the background music as the ending unfolds but Johanny Cash's Solitary Man totally sold it to me, might be because Mr. Cash is maybe Shep's the very constant in the many universes and this episode was an Sheppard episode.

prion
January 3rd, 2009, 11:57 AM
Another member said in another thread...

How can Teyla and Ronon show up at Earth when it was Sheppard who invited both of them to join the team and endorsed them to his superiors to join the expedition in the real Atlantis reality?

It just would of been forced and too cheesy. This way it looked real.

This Sheppard never joined the Atlantis expedition. Mckay and Zelenka did.

That was probably me as I know I typed it somewhere on this forum ;)

To have had Teyla and/or Ronon show up in background shots would have detracted from the seriousness of the episode, which was played straight. The 'stuntcasting' of gamblers, Soporano actors, producers and MGm execs would go by all of us if we didn't know to look for them.

jelgate
January 3rd, 2009, 11:58 AM
Another member said in another thread...How can Teyla and Ronon show up at Earth when it was Sheppard who invited both of them to join the team and endorsed them to his superiors to join the expedition in the real Atlantis reality? It just would of been forced and too cheesy. This way it looked real. This Sheppard never joined the Atlantis expedition. Mckay and Zelenka did.You can't honestly believe Sheppard was that important. Whose to say that whoever replaced Shep in this AU wouldn't have done the same thing with regards to Ronon and Teyla. I would say due to that Atlantis stiil existing in the AU that the two timelines must have had simlair leadership in Atlantis even if they are different people. Since O'Neil and Shepphard were simlair in accpeating aliens I can believe that someone simliar could lead Atlantis and had invitied especially Teyla to the expedition

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 11:59 AM
That was probably me as I know I typed it somewhere on this forum ;)

To have had Teyla and/or Ronon show up in background shots would have detracted from the seriousness of the episode, which was played straight. The 'stuntcasting' of gamblers, Soporano actors, producers and MGm execs would go by all of us if we didn't know to look for them.

That it was. :p Want to give credit to credit due. Folks want to see the Stargate Writers write a brilliant non-cheesy episode. When they start to really think of all the outcomes and put the pieces together and see what works it becomes an excellent episode. Ronon and Teyla, as much as I love to see these characters in action, did not have a place in this episode.

Pandora's_Box
January 3rd, 2009, 12:00 PM
Another member said in another thread...

How can Teyla and Ronon show up at Earth when it was Sheppard who invited both of them to join the team and endorsed them to his superiors to join the expedition in the real Atlantis reality?

It just would of been forced and too cheesy. This way it looked real.

This Sheppard never joined the Atlantis expedition. Mckay and Zelenka did.

It's AU!!!

Anything could have happened in Pegasus in this reality.

I think you're exaggerating Sheppard's importance in the whole Wraith/Atlantis/Pegasus issue. Ronon and Teyla could have gotten involved in any number of ways without Sheppard's help.

We know the Travellers exist in our universe, so maybe they exist in the AU as well. If they have reached a similar state of technological advance, then Ronon could have joined forces with them somehow. Teyla too.

If Todd and some other random Wraith somehow managed to have made their way to Earth, then it stands to reason that maybe Ronon or Teyla could have managed the same and that McKay and Woolsey's team would have found them and kept them for questioning or for help or something.

There are many ways in which this could have worked. TPTB simply chose not to do it. To the detriment of the episode in my opinion.

Shan Bruce Lee
January 3rd, 2009, 12:01 PM
I thought it was an awesome episode. That's a pretty cleaver way to lead in to the series finale too.

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 12:02 PM
You can't honestly believe Sheppard was that important. Whose to say that whoever replaced Shep in this AU wouldn't have done the same thing with regards to Ronon and Teyla. I would say due to that Atlantis stiil existing in the AU that the two timelines must have had simlair leadership in Atlantis even if they are different people. Since O'Neil and Shepphard were simlair in accpeating aliens I can believe that someone simliar could lead Atlantis and had invitied especially Teyla to the expedition

Remember "The Last Man"? What happened when Sheppard was gone and they could not find Teyla in time? It created an alternate time-line where some things came true and some things did not. Woolsey became leader of Atlantis anyway, and Mckay and Keller still managed to hook up. Other things did not happen. So because of no Sheppard joining the SGA team, it is possible that they never met Teyla and Ronon. Maybe Ford is still with the SGA alternate team? That is what makes this episode so brilliant because it makes you think what could of been.

tricky
January 3rd, 2009, 12:06 PM
Ok, I jumped to the end of the thread, but something occured to me:
Why didn't Shep just try to cut the power to the trailer? I mean that would stop George the Wraith, and possibly bring him outside the trailer. Plus, you don't get killed as quick (although then the signal isn't picked up for a Fire Mission, and Series Finale...;) )

I liked this ep. Nice to get alot of stuff fans have been asking for: More Wraith stuff (who knew they had spines down their backs? And that they love Texas Holdem and Marilyn Manson?); and the secret of Shep's background. (so, either he saved that Medic and was a hero, or some other slight change happened to make ours stay in the service)

I can't believe they would let Shep die in the desert, but then again, it does kill two birds with one stone....from a slightly evil point of view.

Kratos_Goauld_of_War
January 3rd, 2009, 12:09 PM
I thought this was a great episode honestly. I liked the quasi-CSI approach although I was very disappointed that before they cut to the credits Sheppard didn't make a Grissomesque quip about the dead body. I was so expecting some corny/offcolor pun or one liner and it never happened. Not cool.

Also I think Todd was just playing crazy. Wraith do like to play games...

Flyboy
January 3rd, 2009, 12:10 PM
This was their last filmed episode.

In effect, the 100th episode filmed.

Enemy at the Gate was done and dusted in terms of filming.

So what if they wanted to have fun? It wasn't absurd such as 200, and it did tell a story of Wraith, the SGC, and other characters, just from the PoV of someone NOT on the expedition. What's so wrong with that?

rach12
January 3rd, 2009, 12:26 PM
I really liked the episode because of its uniqueness and unusualness. I love AU stories, and I thought it was a very well-done AU-episode.
The CSI-Theme was interesting, the Wraith was cool, the whole rock-gothic image/attitude suited him well. Maybe I’m the only one, but I kinda liked the Poker-scene (was that Todd Brunson at the table?), it was entertaining and seeing the Wraith playing Poker was fun, if only those people knew, who they were playing with. :p
My only complain about the ep would be Sheppard having the tragic ending, I so was hoping for McKay and Woolsey saving him by the end. :(

Still the ep is definitely one of the best of Season 5. :cool:

Infernorhythm
January 3rd, 2009, 12:50 PM
I thought the episode was alot of fun. It looked like they may have tried to shot it with less money. (Trying to save for the big finale?) I enjoyed seeing an alternate version of Sheppard even though I don't like alternate universe shows. It was like "What if things had not gone so well with his incident in Afghanistan.

I laughed when he handed the box of his belongings to his boss and took the time to take the poster out. That poster has almost become a trademark of Sheppard.

Agreed, that poster defines Sheppard. It's like Ronon's gun or McKay's laptop.

prion
January 3rd, 2009, 01:05 PM
Ok, I jumped to the end of the thread, but something occured to me:
Why didn't Shep just try to cut the power to the trailer? I mean that would stop George the Wraith, and possibly bring him outside the trailer. Plus, you don't get killed as quick (although then the signal isn't picked up for a Fire Mission, and Series Finale...;) )

I liked this ep. Nice to get alot of stuff fans have been asking for: More Wraith stuff (who knew they had spines down their backs? And that they love Texas Holdem and Marilyn Manson?); and the secret of Shep's background. (so, either he saved that Medic and was a hero, or some other slight change happened to make ours stay in the service)

I can't believe they would let Shep die in the desert, but then again, it does kill two birds with one stone....from a slightly evil point of view.

Well, regrettably this Sheppard drove a Camaro with that signature noise (don't know if it's the engine or the muffler but it's NOT a car to drive up in stealth mode with, that's for sure). Now a Prius. George never would have heard him! ;)

Anyway, cutting power isn't as easy as flicking a switch. I'm sure the wraith had a nice complicated connection, and when you're dealing with high voltage. well, being shot is a nicer, cleaner death than electrocution on a line like that (then he'd just end up looking like a charred wraith victim - it's ugly).

Plus, well, plot line and all, we needed the setup for the finale.

Shipperahoy
January 3rd, 2009, 01:05 PM
First of all, I'll admit that my dislike of alternate timeline and alternate universe episodes likely colored my view of this episode. I've never been fond of these types of episodes. They really just seem like an excuse for the actors to get to do something a little different.

I didn't find it as horrible as some people. I didn't think it was bad. It just wasn't Stargate. I also hate, hate, hate the fact that Ronon and Teyla have been, for all intents and purposes, abandoned in the later half of this season. This LAST season. It irks me. I find it irksome.

Obviously it's setting up for the last episode so I can't exactly call is a filler episode but that's what it felt like. It was fun and offbeat and they seemed like they had a good time with it and if it had been released at any other time other than as the second to last episode of the series I probably would have been able to sit back and enjoy it more.

Skydiver
January 3rd, 2009, 01:13 PM
I didn't find it as horrible as some people. I didn't think it was bad. It just wasn't Stargate. I also hate, hate, hate the fact that Ronon and Teyla have been, for all intents and purposes, abandoned in the later half of this season. This LAST season. It irks me. I find it irksome.


that bugs me too.

in the case of this episode, it's an AU, you can literally do anything you want. so why ignore teyla and ronon? Aren't they part of the show too?

I mean, they could squeeze in walter for pete's sake, and lord knows they found a way to cameo themselves PLUS various studio execs, but two actors, one of which has been with the show since day one, can't even get a 20 second cameo?