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Lewisco
January 3rd, 2009, 01:14 PM
This truly is a very love or hate episode. I for one, absolutely loved this episode. it could easily be one of my all time Atlantis favourties. I mean sure, there was no Stargate or Atlantis, but it still had a Stargate feel to me. With something new thrown in. It was different, but in my opinion a good kind of different. An extremely cool episode and a smart way to set up the series finale.
One of the best this season.

However i can understand why some fans wouldn't have enjoyed it. Simply because it wasn't a typical Stargate episode. But even so, it had great acting, directing, guest stars and music.

Lewisco
January 3rd, 2009, 01:22 PM
Not sure i agree with this being the equivalent of '200'. That episode still had more of a Stargate feel, what with it being inside the SGC most the episode.
Vegas was very unique. Wasn't the Atlantis we're used to, but i for one loved it. I just wouldn't compare it to '200'. That was a very different type of episode.

soma_momma
January 3rd, 2009, 01:24 PM
It says this is the first time I've logged into this board since October 2007.
I had been disappointed with SGA and thought it was just as well that it was ending.
But this ep was surprisingly terrific. All the shout outs made it an appropriate series almost-ender. It seems I'm alone in appreciating the poignancy of AU Shep's death. There were a few things I didn't like, especially the Solitary Man song -- it seemed hokey and to be making fun of what was largely a serious rather than campy episode. Or maybe I just didn't get it, and it was supposed to be totally campy. Probably. I'll definitely rewatch it next week. Didn't care for the Rodney/Radek bickering. It would have been nice to have them have a different dynamic in the the AU. But overall I loved it. Definitely will be one of my favorites if not The favorite SGA ep.

Morrolan
January 3rd, 2009, 01:36 PM
However, to argue that (stamps feet (cuz they're cold), tossing empty Kleenex boxes futilely across the room (to stop the cat from scratching the rug) :D , I would point out that this Rodney is not OUR Rodney. He's the leader of the SGA team (from what I can figure) and thus, may actually care more about others. He was impressed enough with an AU Sheppard he met to theorize that maybe his Sheppard had the same integrity.

I gather this point will be bandied about quite a bit :)

I think the exchange with Zelenka showed that Vegas Rodney was much like our Rodney. He was quite arrogant and self-absorbed. He did show a small soft spot for Sheppard, but I think in the end his focus was on protecting the planet, not worrying about a single man that he just met, despite having great respect for the man he met in another reality.

I'm sure McKay will have a few sleepless nights when the ground crew gets to the site and sees a dead Sheppard lying against the car. Though, I also believe, by the look on Sheppard's face, the wound he received was a mortal one, so there would be nothing they could do anyway.

rsanchez
January 3rd, 2009, 01:43 PM
In terms of being different from the series in general, then it was the "200" equivalent, but that's where the equivalence ends. "200" was just a complete spoof that made you laugh, but this was a serious episode that was very nice.

Mongoletsi
January 3rd, 2009, 01:53 PM
In a way, this sums up all that went wrong with SGA... it was just a filler episode with (it seems) no impact on the main story arc.

Edit:
Okay, so the transmission plays a part in EatG...

A blatant CSI spoof, and I loved it. McKay's role was about the only disappointing; I love the character, but his addition kind of let it down a bit.

8/10 - genuinely.

wraith2cool
January 3rd, 2009, 02:13 PM
Vegas was a very good ep:) I love it. especially the wraith part that was so cool:wraith:.theirs only one thing I didn't like....it ended ;).

Erik Pasternak
January 3rd, 2009, 02:24 PM
Have to admit my reaction to the ep is kinda mixed. On the one hand, I thought it was creative, beautifully written and directed, and in many ways did things in a way I thought Atlantis should've done all along, especially in terms of directorial style. That said, it seemed like they were being flashy for the sake of being flashy and it felt very out of place for an Atlantis episode. I was also disappointed that Steve Schirripa & Frank Vincent's parts were little more than cameos, instead of actually contributing to the story. They also gave Vegas-Wraith no personality whatsoever--he didn't even speak--and that lessened his impact as a villan. Personally, I'd rather it have been an alternate Todd (although the appearance by the Wraith who I think was Todd was awesome). Overall, it's too hard to give a rating to--certain elements made it both freakin' superb and a little below average at the same time.

Southern Red
January 3rd, 2009, 02:29 PM
It says this is the first time I've logged into this board since October 2007.
I had been disappointed with SGA and thought it was just as well that it was ending.
But this ep was surprisingly terrific. All the shout outs made it an appropriate series almost-ender. It seems I'm alone in appreciating the poignancy of AU Shep's death. There were a few things I didn't like, especially the Solitary Man song -- it seemed hokey and to be making fun of what was largely a serious rather than campy episode. Or maybe I just didn't get it, and it was supposed to be totally campy. Probably. I'll definitely rewatch it next week. Didn't care for the Rodney/Radek bickering. It would have been nice to have them have a different dynamic in the the AU. But overall I loved it. Definitely will be one of my favorites if not The favorite SGA ep.

No, no, no, you're not alone. It was a very poignant death and I think any Sheppard in any other AU could have ended up the same way without the support of his friends. This one redeemed himself in the end and saved everyone in his reality. Very poignant and a sacrifice not made in vain.

I didn't think Solitary Man was hokey at all but very fitting. The perfect theme for a true solitary man. There's a fine line between camp and reality sometimes. This whole story line was very stereotypical but I think they did as good a job as was possible with it.

And ITA on the Rodney/Radek part. I'm pretty sick of Radek always getting less than he deserves.

prion
January 3rd, 2009, 03:13 PM
I think the exchange with Zelenka showed that Vegas Rodney was much like our Rodney. He was quite arrogant and self-absorbed. He did show a small soft spot for Sheppard, but I think in the end his focus was on protecting the planet, not worrying about a single man that he just met, despite having great respect for the man he met in another reality.

I'm sure McKay will have a few sleepless nights when the ground crew gets to the site and sees a dead Sheppard lying against the car. Though, I also believe, by the look on Sheppard's face, the wound he received was a mortal one, so there would be nothing they could do anyway.

Oh, this Rodney has the basics of our Rodney, didn't mean to say that this Rodney was far superior (no, that's "Rod"). He can be arrogant, etc., but in that scene in the hall with Woolsey, it also shows he can temper that arrogance when the situation arises. our Rodney has problems with that ;) Plus, well, hey, he takes the time to part his hair! I think this Rod is in between Rod and Rodney. Not totally nice like Rodney, but not a total ass like Rodney ;)

As for the look on Sheppard's face, hmm, it's debatable. I do think in that instant he died, but I like how the fanfic tags pick up with him being saved (hey, that's what fanfic is for). But, Shep did go out a solitary man (so the Johnny Cash song was quite apt) and hey, like many of his other selves, saved the world, only this time he didn't make it.


No, no, no, you're not alone. It was a very poignant death and I think any Sheppard in any other AU could have ended up the same way without the support of his friends. This one redeemed himself in the end and saved everyone in his reality. Very poignant and a sacrifice not made in vain.

I didn't think Solitary Man was hokey at all but very fitting. The perfect theme for a true solitary man. There's a fine line between camp and reality sometimes. This whole story line was very stereotypical but I think they did as good a job as was possible with it.



Most TV is stereotypical, but they did very well with this episode. Yeah, agree on the poignant ending.

Fandom Addict
January 3rd, 2009, 03:21 PM
Basics (too tired to post a great deal tonight, more in depth tomorrow): I quite liked it.

I liked Spike (the Wraith, we over at the WDC call him that :P ), the choice of music & clothing style, poetic Todd, glimpse at a half-naked Wraith and the details shown to us about them (the spine, tattoos, Spike's raw emotion when remembering the battle).

Didn't like: Todd being trapped in the glass box, and Rodney's implications with "they'ed tried everything". That Spike was killed. And a few other bits and bobs.

Over all: Liked most of the episode.

gkarris
January 3rd, 2009, 03:35 PM
AWESOME!

Totally LOVED it. Watched again right after I first saw it (have Tivo).

But then again, I'm into the whole "alternate reality/dimension/timeline" stuff (like "The Road Not Taken" and "Continuum", etc.).

bluealien
January 3rd, 2009, 03:40 PM
I had looked forward to seeing a Sheppard focused episode all season but I hated this episode. If JF has landed a new role in a CSI type of show and the character had been set up to be a brooding drop out type of character I would have had no problem with it. JF did a great job with the role but this isnt what I wanted to see of Sheppard.

I found the whole CSI feel too heavy handed and it became irritating in places. The music was great at times but at other times it was just overbearing. It dragged in places and the whole poker game was just too long and too dragged out. The ptb have been trying to turn Sheppard into this brooding and angsty character for the last year and if we had a 6th season our Sheppard probably wouldn't have been all that different to this AU version... but this is not the Sheppard I fell in love with I'm not really interested in the drop out Sheppard whose painted as the sad and lonely tragic character we saw here. McMay was his usual smug self who can't think of anyone but himself. He's quick enough to give Sheppard a pep talk when he wants him to go out and risk his life, but then can't even take the time to give him a second thought or send any help for him.. but of course he's the well adjusted one whose perfect in every universe.

If this had been shown in earlier seasons I probably wouldnt have had such a problem with it.. but to show this as the second last episode of the season and kill off Sheppard in such a sad and pathetic way and portray him as such a screwed up character was just sad and depressing and I have no interest in watching this episode ever again. It's such a cliched cop out for the writers and they have been trying to do this all season with our Sheppard.. who needs to develop a character when we can just portray him as some lonely sad case who ends up either alone or dead.

I fell in love with the vibrant, cocky and courageous Sheppard who had a
sense of humour and seemed pretty self assured in earlier seasons eventhough he had been through a load of crap already in his life, but somewhere along the line the writers decided to turn him into a lonely sad and tragic character who seems to have no value for his own life in either universe and this isn't how I ever invisaged Shep.

So this wasnt how I wanted to remember the last Sheppard focused episode of the seaon or how I wanted to see Sheppard in any universe. JF is a great actor and the only plus I can think of about this episode is that it did hightlight what a great actor JF is, and I hope he gets snapped up for a similar kind of role and his talents are appreciated a lot more than they ever were on SGA. He really did a fantastic job as as the sultry lonely tragic cop..

Flyboy
January 3rd, 2009, 04:27 PM
In a way, this sums up all that went wrong with SGA... it was just a filler episode with (it seems) no impact on the main story arc.

Edit:
Okay, so the transmission plays a part in EatG...

A blatant CSI spoof, and I loved it. McKay's role was about the only disappointing; I love the character, but his addition kind of let it down a bit.

8/10 - genuinely.
Why must everything be arc driven though? If an ep is good (and you obviously thought so), does it MATTER if it doesn't add to the main plot? A lot of things in life don't, they just 'happen'. As long as it advances the characters then it should be ok.

Or, occasionally, an ep like this which is just fantastical fun.

FoolishPleasure
January 3rd, 2009, 04:28 PM
. . . a missed opportunity to let the 'team' come out and play instead of the, imho, overused favored characters

AU folks knew about the Stargate and Pegasus so Teyla and Ronon "could" have appeared on Earth. I would rather have had Teyla pass Rodney in the hall with the smoldering look (or even Dr. Weir as this IS an AU), but alas, we get that writer fav and total fan pariah Keller shoved at us again. Ugh, I just want to toss a brick at the TV when I see her. Would rather have seen Beckett as the medical examiner.

I do like when the writers try something different. Lord knows they don't do it enough, but with one episode left, they turned Shep into a mess, though it did give Flanigan something new to work with.

I would give this one a B and probably would have given it higher had Keller not reared her nauseating self. I was hoping the baddie Wraith would chow on her. I would have given it an A+ if that had happened. ;)

jyh
January 3rd, 2009, 04:37 PM
They also gave Vegas-Wraith no personality whatsoever--he didn't even speak--and that lessened his impact as a villan. Personally, I'd rather it have been an alternate Todd (although the appearance by the Wraith who I think was Todd was awesome). Overall, it's too hard to give a rating to--certain elements made it both freakin' superb and a little below average at the same time.
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I respectfully disagree on the Vegas-Wraith. I thought the fact that he never said a word was a testament to what we saw him DO. (I do think he had to have spoken at SOME point prior to when we met him... you don't get into those exclusive high-stakes poker games just by looks alone.) But I think the mystery around him-- how he learned to drive, for instance, or where he got his makeup, how he first came across poker, or the music he listened to-- made him a more interesting character. I think we know all we really need to know about him. Yeah, it'd be interesting to know a bit more of the "how" and "why" of his backstory here on Earth, but the theory of "less is more" applies here. Much more information--or him speaking--would have ruined that illusion.

lacka1986
January 3rd, 2009, 04:38 PM
Am I alone in thinking that this was a TERRIBLE episode? The music and cinematography was good but the actual storyline SUCKED. They barely mentioned what happened and how it happened and they never explained anything in the end! I felt like I had wasted an hour of my life! Now this is just my opinion so ifyou like it I am sorry if this offends, but I did not like it AT ALL...

jdit2
January 3rd, 2009, 04:51 PM
so true I agree 110%

jelgate
January 3rd, 2009, 04:51 PM
Remember "The Last Man"? What happened when Sheppard was gone and they could not find Teyla in time? It created an alternate time-line where some things came true and some things did not. Woolsey became leader of Atlantis anyway, and Mckay and Keller still managed to hook up. Other things did not happen. So because of no Sheppard joining the SGA team, it is possible that they never met Teyla and Ronon. Maybe Ford is still with the SGA alternate team? That is what makes this episode so brilliant because it makes you think what could of been.Of course Sheppard could be the reason that Teyla and Ronon never joinied but thats a poor excuse to have the two characters being missing. Their could also be AU where Shep had no factor on the "aliens" joining the expedition. The two character who been used the least this season deserved some kind of role in this episode.

jdit2
January 3rd, 2009, 04:54 PM
This was the most boring episode ever! Out of all the T.V shows that ever had the worst writing ever. this episode tops the list of "Why did I waste my time on this?"
I've been a fan of the show and stuck with every episode, (good or bad), but this was torture, a complete waste of my Friday night! Now we wonder why the show has been cancelled. I hate to be mean but it's the truth. Stargate Atlantis HAD so much to offer but no it had to get into bringing SG-1 over (visits good but to bring in one of SG-1's members over to be leader, horrible! not saying it wasn't good *in SG-1* but for SGA it never should of happened!) and let's not forget killing all those favorite characters: Peter Grodin, Aiden Ford(wasn’t “killed” per say but was never heard from again), Kate Heightmeyer, and let’s not for get Elizabeth Weir (weir replicator? come on people!) and Carson Beckett (You think you can make it better with him being a clone? are you crazy?!!!)
To: Brad Wright, Robert C. Cooper, Joseph Mallozzi, Paul Mullie, Martin Gero and all the other writers GUESS WHAT? YOU KILLED THE CHARACTERS, YOU KILLED THE SHOW! It’s not surprising why Sci-Fi cancelled both Stargates and if all of you keep this crappy writing up and let this type of crap make air time I assure you Stargate Universe will be cancelled as well!!
End of story! To every one else agree, disagree I don’t care but if you really cared about SGA you would of put an end to episodes like this and prevented this type of crap from happening! Where was the caring and the outpour of support? (like for saving Carson) There wasn’t any! I WOULD have been supporting to bring Atlantis back but since this episode was a waste of 60 minutes of my time I’m going to say let Atlantis sink for all our sakes so none of us have to witness something this torturous again because I assure you that even if Atlantis was coming back for a 6th season I sure as hell wouldn’t waste my time on it and anyone who would have been foolish enough to do so I wouldn’t feel one bit sorry for them when they come to the sad realization that there’s nothing more to offer from this show!
Like I said before whether or not you agree with me it’s you choice but my main point is WHEN YOU KILL CHARCTERS, YOU KILL THE SHOW, BRING LOVE INTERESTS IN, YOU KILL THE SHOW, WRITE CRAPPY EPISODES, YOU KILL THE SHOW!!!!!!!!
To: All the actors and actresses and all of the hard working crew members, still thank you for all the hard work these past five years none of this rant was directed to you expect for any names listed above (not the characters names of course)

prion
January 3rd, 2009, 04:59 PM
Of course Sheppard could be the reason that Teyla and Ronon never joinied but thats a poor excuse to have the two characters being missing. Their could also be AU where Shep had no factor on the "aliens" joining the expedition. The two character who been used the least this season deserved some kind of role in this episode.

I would loved to have seen them, but logically, there was no way to introduce them. We don' t even know if they are part of Rodney's team. It could easily be Lorne and others. So many 'what if's'...

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 05:00 PM
Meh, the majority seemed to like it.

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 05:04 PM
This was the most boring episode ever! Out of all the T.V shows that ever had the worst writing ever. this episode tops the list of "Why did I waste my time on this?"
I've been a fan of the show and stuck with every episode, (good or bad), but this was torture, a complete waste of my Friday night! Now we wonder why the show has been cancelled. I hate to be mean but it's the truth. Stargate Atlantis HAD so much to offer but no it had to get into bringing SG-1 over (visits good but to bring in one of SG-1's members over to be leader, horrible! not saying it wasn't good *in SG-1* but for SGA it never should of happened!) and let's not forget killing all those favorite characters: Peter Grodin, Aiden Ford(wasn’t “killed” per say but was never heard from again), Kate Heightmeyer, and let’s not for get Elizabeth Weir (weir replicator? come on people!) and Carson Beckett (You think you can make it better with him being a clone? are you crazy?!!!)
To: Brad Wright, Robert C. Cooper, Joseph Mallozzi, Paul Mullie, Martin Gero and all the other writers GUESS WHAT? YOU KILLED THE CHARACTERS, YOU KILLED THE SHOW! It’s not surprising why Sci-Fi cancelled both Stargates and if all of you keep this crappy writing up and let this type of crap make air time I assure you Stargate Universe will be cancelled as well!!
End of story! To every one else agree, disagree I don’t care but if you really cared about SGA you would of put an end to episodes like this and prevented this type of crap from happening! Where was the caring and the outpour of support? (like for saving Carson) There wasn’t any! I WOULD have been supporting to bring Atlantis back but since this episode was a waste of 60 minutes of my time I’m going to say let Atlantis sink for all our sakes so none of us have to witness something this torturous again because I assure you that even if Atlantis was coming back for a 6th season I sure as hell wouldn’t waste my time on it and anyone who would have been foolish enough to do so I wouldn’t feel one bit sorry for them when they come to the sad realization that there’s nothing more to offer from this show!
Like I said before whether or not you agree with me it’s you choice but my main point is WHEN YOU KILL CHARCTERS, YOU KILL THE SHOW, BRING LOVE INTERESTS IN, YOU KILL THE SHOW, WRITE CRAPPY EPISODES, YOU KILL THE SHOW!!!!!!!!
To: All the actors and actresses and all of the hard working crew members, still thank you for all the hard work these past five years none of this rant was directed to you expect for any names listed above (not the characters names of course)

You know, It is best to just keep my thoughts to myself, so will just say, sorry you disliked it, but I disagree they killed off the characters and show. *sigh* I need to stick with the SCI FI forum.

jelgate
January 3rd, 2009, 05:06 PM
Meh, the majority seemed to like it.Again with the generalizations Brian:P

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 05:07 PM
Again with the generalizations Brian:P

That is what I'm here for. ;)

Dr Lee
January 3rd, 2009, 05:09 PM
i think someone's a bit cross.......

Vegas is Marmite... you love it or you hate it, I loved it. yea i wouldn't have had it as the penultimate episode... i think it would have worked quite well back in place of 'Whispers' then the gap between the alt reality sending out the message and it being recieved in EATG would have been longer AND possibly a surprise to some...

qua493
January 3rd, 2009, 05:10 PM
Vegas was the worst sga episode i have ever seen , total waste of a hour. Thanks for the disappointment !!

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 05:13 PM
i think someone's a bit cross.......

Vegas is Marmite... you love it or you hate it, I loved it. yea i wouldn't have had it as the penultimate episode... i think it would have worked quite well back in place of 'Whispers' then the gap between the alt reality sending out the message and it being recieved in EATG would have been longer AND possibly a surprise to some...

I think if Vegas was like episode 514 or 515 it would of gotten even more postive feedback. The fanbase mind is a very complex one. Little things like that will change people's perspective of an episode.

qua493
January 3rd, 2009, 05:15 PM
OMG it was great !! NOT NOT NOT !!!!! This was the worst sga episode i have ever had to sit through, it really was .When i saw the previews i kinda thought it would be a disappointment but not like this. What a waste of my time. What a bad way to go out ...... i hope the last one isnt this bad.

sagey
January 3rd, 2009, 05:29 PM
it was different but wasnt that the point...i liked it ..
and did rodney have on a wedding ring...

hugs

Black Water
January 3rd, 2009, 05:41 PM
I think if Vegas was like episode 514 or 515 it would of gotten even more postive feedback. The fanbase mind is a very complex one. Little things like that will change people's perspective of an episode.

Agreed with the point verbatim...

I enjoyed this episode...definitely of the "CSI" sort but nonetheless still has the Stargate atmosphere. I feel it was a very ballsy move leading in to the finale as it were but again I enjoyed and appreciated every facet of this episode.

jtjaforever
January 3rd, 2009, 05:42 PM
it was different but wasnt that the point...i liked it ..
and did rodney have on a wedding ring...

hugs


YES, he did.

Detox
January 3rd, 2009, 05:48 PM
I thought it was a great episode. Not all of them need to have a big elaborate back story. The episode did exactly what it was suppose to do perfectly, which was to set off Enemy at the Gate.

People are complaining because that's all they do. When Atlantis keeps to the tried and true formula of gate traveling, the show gets called stale and unoriginal, and the writers called hacks for not taking risks.

When episodes like Vegas air where the writers do go out and try something new, those same people complain because it's not Stargate and that the writers are hacks for selling out the series.

Lythisrose
January 3rd, 2009, 05:49 PM
Nope, best episode ever!

Pandora's_Box
January 3rd, 2009, 05:54 PM
:: looks around ::

Is there a reason why this discussion can't be taking place in the General Discussion folder?

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 05:58 PM
I thought it was a great episode. Not all of them need to have a big elaborate back story. The episode did exactly what it was suppose to do perfectly, which was to set off Enemy at the Gate.

People are complaining because that's all they do. When Atlantis keeps to the tried and true formula of gate traveling, the show gets called stale and unoriginal, and the writers called hacks for not taking risks.

When episodes like Vegas air where the writers do go out and try something new, those same people complain because it's not Stargate and that the writers are hacks for selling out the series.

I think it was brilliant what the producers did in this ep and it only angers me knowing this show is ending when it had at least another season in it.

lacka1986
January 3rd, 2009, 06:00 PM
I thought it was a great episode. Not all of them need to have a big elaborate back story. The episode did exactly what it was suppose to do perfectly, which was to set off Enemy at the Gate.

People are complaining because that's all they do. When Atlantis keeps to the tried and true formula of gate traveling, the show gets called stale and unoriginal, and the writers called hacks for not taking risks.

When episodes like Vegas air where the writers do go out and try something new, those same people complain because it's not Stargate and that the writers are hacks for selling out the series.

They do not say "To be continued" or anything. It leaves you completely confused. How are you supposed to know it will be resolved ever? It seems like it is just an entirely separate entity from everything else. I loved this episode on a cinematography level. It was beautifully made, but the plot sucked. No explanations at all!

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 06:01 PM
They do not say "To be continued" or anything. It leaves you completely confused. How are you supposed to know it will be resolved ever? It seems like it is just an entirely separate entity from everything else. I loved this episode on a cinematography level. It was beautifully made, but the plot sucked. No explanations at all!

Wait till the finale, it will make more sense.

jtjaforever
January 3rd, 2009, 06:01 PM
Of course Sheppard could be the reason that Teyla and Ronon never joinied but thats a poor excuse to have the two characters being missing. Their could also be AU where Shep had no factor on the "aliens" joining the expedition. The two character who been used the least this season deserved some kind of role in this episode.


I have to say I wish that Teyla and Ronon had been a part of this ep, but I LOVE it as it was too. I agree their screen time was limited at best and often as wall dressing. They could have been used as experts on the Wraith and help AU Shep to track the Wraith but that would have changed the whole feel of this piece.

Actually this ep was very good piece of work by the writers during a season that has offer overall poor quality story telling. I feel that the story could have taken the slot of ep 518 and expanded EatG to cover 519 & 520. It would have been a better service to fans in terms of quality esp as we end the series.

JMO

P.S.- Some interesting reviews of this ep on LJ. Great insights and some nice links to some vids. Leave comments they would appreciate your imput.;)

http://horridporrid.livejournal.com/33782.html?style=mine

http://x-erikah-x.livejournal.com/102332.html?style=mine

I'm REALLY gonna miss this show:sheppardanime32:

Pandora's_Box
January 3rd, 2009, 06:04 PM
When episodes like Vegas air where the writers do go out and try something new, those same people complain because it's not Stargate and that the writers are hacks for selling out the series.

Or, you know, they complain because in their opinion what TPTB did didn't work.

Or because they're irked by the fact that in the second to last episode of the series, two thirds of the main cast is missing.

Or because TPTB didn't actually try something new, they just ripped off another show. Blatantly. They blatantly ripped off another show, as if they couldn't be bothered to actually be creative this late in the game.

Or maybe because this turned out to be an episode of insight into the mind of John Sheppard and it's not even a John Sheppard we know or will ever see again.

Maybe because the only bits of this episode that will actually matter to the overall arc of SGA are the last five minutes of the episode.

As a directorial piece or a creative endeavour, it was interesting. But if that's all TPTB wanted out of this episode than they should have aired it earlier and saved this slot for making the finale truly epic.

Pic
January 3rd, 2009, 06:07 PM
Wow, people either loved it or hated it. I thought it was great to move out of the "pretty" Atlantis set where everything is so clean and shiny and to tell a different story.

I'm sorry not every character could be used and that some people couldn't stand the CSI-feel/music/whatever.

Frankly I enjoyed the episode and was entertained (*ahem, which is the entire purpose anyway ~ entertainment). I suppose if it wasn't entertaining, you could always change the channel.

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 06:08 PM
Or, you know, they complain because in their opinion what TPTB didn't work.

Or because they're irked by the fact that in the second to last episode of the series, two thirds of the main cast is missing.

Or because TPTB didn't actually try something new, they just ripped off another show. Blatantly. They blatantly ripped off another show, as if they couldn't be bothered to actually be creative this late in the game.

Or maybe because this turned out to be an episode of insight into the mind of John Sheppard and it's not even a John Sheppard we know or will ever see again.

Maybe because the only bits of this episode that will actually matter to the overall arc of SGA are the last five minutes of the episode.

As a directorial piece or a creative endeavour, it was interesting. But if that's all TPTB wanted out of this episode than they should have aired it earlier and saved this slot for making the finale truly epic.

In all fairness, Vegas was pitched before they knew the show was ending. The Ratings were at a record high when the renewal decision was taken place. So makes you wonder about the whole thing.

Remember "Lost City" the producers of Stargate were ready to end the series, they did not think there would be an 8th season, but the success of Season 7 made SCI FI renew the show and pick up SGA at the same time.

So why not renew SGA?...

With SGU it is different, Brad Wright has made it clear he does not want to produce 40 eps again. I betcha my membership here that SCI FI was going to renew SGA and let SGU run along it for at least one season, but then MGM and the producers said it would be better to just end SGA now and go with the movie format.

Morrolan
January 3rd, 2009, 06:14 PM
They do not say "To be continued" or anything. It leaves you completely confused. How are you supposed to know it will be resolved ever? It seems like it is just an entirely separate entity from everything else. I loved this episode on a cinematography level. It was beautifully made, but the plot sucked. No explanations at all!

Why does it need to? It is a single story. It had a beginning and an end. While the happenings in this story may affect the finale, it's not a direct set up. The plot was awesome. A different view of a character loved by the fans.


Or, you know, they complain because in their opinion what TPTB did didn't work.

Or because they're irked by the fact that in the second to last episode of the series, two thirds of the main cast is missing.

Or because TPTB didn't actually try something new, they just ripped off another show. Blatantly. They blatantly ripped off another show, as if they couldn't be bothered to actually be creative this late in the game.

Or maybe because this turned out to be an episode of insight into the mind of John Sheppard and it's not even a John Sheppard we know or will ever see again.

Maybe because the only bits of this episode that will actually matter to the overall arc of SGA are the last five minutes of the episode.

As a directorial piece or a creative endeavour, it was interesting. But if that's all TPTB wanted out of this episode than they should have aired it earlier and saved this slot for making the finale truly epic.

No, all of those points are wrong. This isn't the fans' vision of the series. They don't like it because they want it to be a certain way and can't appreciate someone else's vision.

Hermiiod
January 3rd, 2009, 06:15 PM
People are complaining because that's all they do. When Atlantis keeps to the tried and true formula of gate traveling, the show gets called stale and unoriginal, and the writers called hacks for not taking risks.

When episodes like Vegas air where the writers do go out and try something new, those same people complain because it's not Stargate and that the writers are hacks for selling out the series.

I agree with you completely and I don't understand why people are even arguing that this episode was unoriginal, and unforgivable.
To quote Teal'c, "I do not believe I understand your earth customs O'Neill"

Pandora's_Box
January 3rd, 2009, 06:16 PM
No, all of those points are wrong. This isn't the fans' vision of the series. They don't like it because they want it to be a certain way and can't appreciate someone else's vision.

:: blinks ::

I'm sorry. I hadn't realised that my reasons for not liking something had to pass through someone's else viability filter.

They are right for me, thank you very much. And for anyone else who happens to think that way.

And when I like something, then that'll be right for me as well.

Pandora's_Box
January 3rd, 2009, 06:17 PM
I agree with you completely and I don't understand why people are even arguing that this episode was unoriginal, and unforgivable.
To quote Teal'c, "I do not believe I understand your earth customs O'Neill"

Dude, am I shaking my head and questioning your right to enjoy an episode?

No.

Then kindly allow those who didn't like it, to do so in peace.

rsanchez
January 3rd, 2009, 06:27 PM
I completely agree with you Flying Officer Bennett. This was a very fun episode. So what if it was a one-off AU episode that only contributed one thing to the plot in general, it had way better acting and writing than the majority of the episodes in the season.

Morrolan
January 3rd, 2009, 06:33 PM
:: blinks ::

I'm sorry. I hadn't realised that my reasons for not liking something had to pass through someone's else viability filter.

They are right for me, thank you very much. And for anyone else who happens to think that way.

And when I like something, then that'll be right for me as well.

All of your reasons for not liking the episode are based of the fact it does not live up to your vision of what direction Stargate Atlantis should go in. It's simply not your series to control. <mod snip>

majorsal
January 3rd, 2009, 06:34 PM
i thought the episode was very interesting. great visuals and it was interesting to see mckay and sheppard differently. i feel for the sheppard fans, though, to be left with that last shot of sheppard... :(

speaking of that scene, what exactly did mckay say about sheppard? something like he's probably in trouble or something (and then we see sheppard lying there dying)? well, they knew where he was (because of tagging his car), so go get him!

anyhoo, heard enough interesting things about this leaked ep to watch it for myself. i'm not sorry i did. :)

jelgate
January 3rd, 2009, 06:39 PM
All of your reasons for not liking the episode are based of the fact it does not live up to your vision of what direction Stargate Atlantis should go in.?* It's simply not your series to control.?* <mod snip>Or maybe she was criticizing the mistakes and flaws in the episode. Last I checked we could still point out the problems that we saw in an episode. Did I not get a memo Sky?:P

Pandora's_Box
January 3rd, 2009, 06:40 PM
All of your reasons for not liking the episode are based of the fact it does not live up to your vision of what direction Stargate Atlantis should go in. It's simply not your series to control. <mod snip>

Well, thanks for clearing that up because I was seriously under the impression that that was actually the case. :rolleyes:

Bolton
January 3rd, 2009, 06:42 PM
Sittng here wondering what I really thought about the episode I am fairly split about it.

The effects, while the CSI ones were not in my taste at all, was veryvery well done. And I loved the small details and clues about their lifes in the background, like Rodneys wedding ring and Sheppards Johnny Cash poster that we can find here and there in the show.

And while I do love the subjects of alternate realities, this one overall was not a favorite. Why? The show ends with the next episode. If this had been the second to last episode of this season, and season six comming in the fall, I wouldn't had minded it as much. But, now it's ending, and I would have wanted to see as much of Atlantis and a "real" story as possible before it's done. And really, that's the only real complaint I have about it.

I'm truly twisted about what I really thought about the episode, but it sure wasn't the worst episode in my opinion.

The twist in the ending was great however.

And if the guys behind the editing and effects were to read this forum, two thumbs up.

Skydiver
January 3rd, 2009, 06:43 PM
People are entitled to criticize the show, just as they are entitled to praise it.

They are not, however, entitled to take others to task for possessing opinions that 'you' may not agree with.

There is not a single episode out there that everyone loves or that everyone hates. Don't get your knickers in a knot over others disagreeing with you. Simply accept the fact and move on.

FN-P90
January 3rd, 2009, 06:45 PM
I persoanly all around liked this episode. it was original for the most part and all around really good. IMO of course

jyh
January 3rd, 2009, 06:45 PM
I thought it was a great episode. Not all of them need to have a big elaborate back story. The episode did exactly what it was suppose to do perfectly, which was to set off Enemy at the Gate.

People are complaining because that's all they do. When Atlantis keeps to the tried and true formula of gate traveling, the show gets called stale and unoriginal, and the writers called hacks for not taking risks.

When episodes like Vegas air where the writers do go out and try something new, those same people complain because it's not Stargate and that the writers are hacks for selling out the series.

This bears repeating because it's true. Obviously every viewer is not going to like EVERY episode. It's just not possible. But you're exactly right about how the writers can't seem to win. Please THIS group of fans, and THAT group isn't happy. When there's an episode that THAT group loves, then THIS group doesn't like it. I think we need to accept that one man's trash is another man's treasure, and if you don't like a particular episode, there will soon come along one you love.

Some like "team" episodes, some like to have their favorite character spotlighted. Some like off-world action, some prefer "home-based" episodes. We can't all like every single episode.

(When my son & I would watch SG-1, every time we liked an episode, it seemed most on this forum hated it, and when we didn't like an episode, it was generally well-liked here.)

I don't like every episode either, but then, I don't expect to. I'm just one fan. I can't imagine trying to satisfy 5 million fans every week. It ain't gonna happen.

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 06:52 PM
This bears repeating because it's true. Obviously every viewer is not going to like EVERY episode. It's just not possible. But you're exactly right about how the writers can't seem to win. Please THIS group of fans, and THAT group isn't happy. When there's an episode that THAT group loves, then THIS group doesn't like it. I think we need to accept that one man's trash is another man's treasure, and if you don't like a particular episode, there will soon come along one you love.

Some like "team" episodes, some like to have their favorite character spotlighted. Some like off-world action, some prefer "home-based" episodes. We can't all like every single episode.

(When my son & I would watch SG-1, every time we liked an episode, it seemed most on this forum hated it, and when we didn't like an episode, it was generally well-liked here.)

I don't like every episode either, but then, I don't expect to. I'm just one fan. I can't imagine trying to satisfy 5 million fans every week. It ain't gonna happen.

Yeah, not going to love them all. In fact there were 3 eps this season I did not care for. People think I love everything, not true, I just like to express the postive rather than the negative since that is my job.....er um my thing. ;)

dasNdanger
January 3rd, 2009, 06:57 PM
I'm really surprised at how much hate is being hurled at this show. Of course, everyone has their own tastes in entertainment, but I - personally - was very impressed with this episode.

First, it had easter eggs - David Magee's name on a glass door/window, special 'guest appearances' scattered here and there, little nods to various people...nice touches.

The soundtrack was awesome, the editing sleek and edgy, and whole look and feel of the ep was...well...not cheesy like so many SGA episodes in the past. You know the ones, with the fake moss and styrofoam boulders and medieval peasant-types roaming about. No - this felt like the real world - the great 'what if' the Wraith did make it to earth. This is the thing that could happen - ya know, if the Wraith were real, and all. ;) It helped tie SGA into the here and now, it helped make it all a bit more believable.

I find from reading some comments that the biggest problem people had is that their favorite characters were not in the show. Now, this is understandable, especially with the show coming to an end. Instead of seeing cameos and stuff, people wanted to see Ronon and Teyla and Lorne and...well...the gateroom and all that is familiar to them. Instead, they got Vegas, and a Sheppard they didn't know, and a humorless Rodney, and an unfrazzled Zelenka...well...slightly unfrazzled...and - oh, yeah... a little McKeller hint...and poor Todd, totally off his nut. The characters were not the characters people wanted to see - they were not 'OUR' characters.

Still...take some time to learn from the episode.

I've already listed the wealth of knowledge we've gleaned from the Vegas Wraith. We Wraith fans are calling him Spike, for obvious reasons. Keep in mind that Atlantis isn't just about the Lanteans, but it is very much about the Wraith, and up until this season, we really haven't learned very much about them. But now, we have. Spike gave us a lot of insight into Wraith - still not enough for me, but it is something, at least. So - what exactly, did we learn? Well, we learned that Wraith do have feelings, they do fear, they do hope. They just keep it all bundled up inside, afraid to show their weaknesses.

Sound familiar? Who else is like that?

Oh, yeah. John Sheppard. Keeps it all bundled up inside. Doesn't want to show his weakness. Until this episode. Don't you guys get it? This was John Sheppard turned inside out - exposed - this is what OUR John Sheppard is on the inside. Different life circumstances, yes...but it's still the same guy - just from a different standpoint. We were seeing Sheppard turned inside out...we were shown his weaknesses. This is the guy our Sheppard could be - would be - and may still be. It's him - it's his potential...it's him at his very worst, and - in some ways - his very best.

Watch the episode to learn about John Sheppard as he really is on the inside - beaten up, disheveled, looking out for himself, willing to quit, take what isn't his and run away. Knowing that should make you appreciate OUR Sheppard all the more. You know what he's fighting against inside, and you know why he does some of the things he does...right or wrong, at least now you understand them.

This really was a deep episode. Maybe it was boring to some because you just want to see what's on the surface, and not think any deeper about it. I mean...think...we see a Wraith 'breakdown', as it were...as much as a Wraith can show emotion over his situation. We see another Wraith already broken...rambling on about things that make no sense except to himself. Was he echoing the thoughts of his fellow Wraith, all alone in the desert, busy building his device, hoping for rescue? I think he was. I think he was the more dangerous of the two...trapped, yes. But who put it in the other Wraith's mind to build the device...to tap into the power lines? Could it be a Wraith who is far more intelligent - perhaps more devious - than most...a Wraith who could understand the dimensional rifts...who knew that the signal would go out to many universes, and not just their own? Now - that is pure speculation...but...what if? What if there was more to this episode than a poker scene and a gunfight in the desert?

We also see some of the things Rodney is made of. This isn't our Rodney, but he's still made of the same stuff. We see him capable of coldblooded torture - 'we've tried everything...' Imagine what that meant for Todd. Was he insane from hunger, or from abuse? Still defiant, still proud...that is his nature...that is not easily broken, no matter how hard Rodney and his men tried. But we see another side to Rodney, too...we see a gentle, caring side...a side that tries to inspire a man who's wallowing in self-pity...a side that can see a man's true potential even when the man cannot see it himself...or even believe it himself. Yes...there is a lot more to this ep than meets the eye.

I just think this was a thinking man's episode - it wasn't just about the ride, but about what the ride teaches you. If you keep your eyes closed and scream until it's over, you've only experienced the feel of the ride. But if you keep your eyes open, if you pay attention to the scenary as it flashes past you - if you listen to the sounds swirling around you - then you don't just feel the ride, but you understand the ride.

Give it another try...watch it for what it tells you about our Sheppard. What it tells you about Wraith. What it tells you about Rodney. And see if it doesn't mean a little more to you.

das

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 06:59 PM
I'm really surprised at how much hate is being hurled at this show. Of course, everyone has their own tastes in entertainment, but I - personally - was very impressed with this episode.



In all fairness, there is also a lot of love for the show that I see. :)

Dr Lee
January 3rd, 2009, 07:00 PM
dasNdanger....damn briliant post.... Green for you.

Skydiver
January 3rd, 2009, 07:04 PM
I think, at the end of the day, folks don't need to worry about whether or not this fan or that fan or the number of fans that do/didn't like the episode.

Just express your own opinion and don't lose sleep over the rest.

Briangate78
January 3rd, 2009, 07:09 PM
I think, at the end of the day, folks don't need to worry about whether or not this fan or that fan or the number of fans that do/didn't like the episode.

Just express your own opinion and don't lose sleep over the rest.


As long as people avoid the "Thank goodness this crap was cancelled" type posts, I am all good. ;)

Anyway, going to watch it a third time now. :) I was hoping for a little "Ring of Fire" in this ep.

FN-P90
January 3rd, 2009, 07:11 PM
I think, at the end of the day, folks don't need to worry about whether or not this fan or that fan or the number of fans that do/didn't like the episode.

Just express your own opinion and don't lose sleep over the rest.

And you shouldnt care what people say about it because when it comes to personal opinion its better to be selfish :P

lacka1986
January 3rd, 2009, 07:14 PM
I am a little upset that my post just got smashed into the general discussion. I think we should be allowed to have a "I liked it" and "I hated it" threads, even if it is just one of each. In such a big thread with a wide range of conversation someone's comment could easily get lost. And everyone is talking about something different!

ToasterOnFire
January 3rd, 2009, 07:18 PM
Yes, I do not get this obsession over which fans liked the ep or how many fans liked they ep or whether a majority liked the ep. What does it matter? If you liked it you liked it. This isn't a contest.

Many have commented on the depth in this ep, but I didn't see it. This AU's Shep was dark and depressed and had a death wish. While it may not be as realized in the "real" universe's Shep, he's displayed various stages of those characteristics for several seasons now. Heck, IMO he's shown quite a progression to a darker level as the show has gone on. What this AU's Shep has on the outside, our Shep has on the inside. Sorry, but I didn't find this revelation all that deep.

No, I thought this ep was great for its flash and oh look shiny! but failed when it tried to deliver something of substance.

ToasterOnFire
January 3rd, 2009, 07:22 PM
I thought 200 was 42 minutes of self indulgent navel gazing, so IMO Vegas >> 200. ;)

prion
January 3rd, 2009, 07:34 PM
I am a little upset that my post just got smashed into the general discussion. I think we should be allowed to have a "I liked it" and "I hated it" threads, even if it is just one of each. In such a big thread with a wide range of conversation someone's comment could easily get lost. And everyone is talking about something different!

Nah, then you won't really have discussion. It's possible for people who like and dislike an episode to get along in a discussion as long as folks don't make it personal. Just state why you liked or disliked it and well, that's about it.

Infernorhythm
January 3rd, 2009, 08:01 PM
dasNDanger, great post! I agree, a lot. Although, I see Vegas Shep and our Shep differently. IMHO Shep is defined by his relationships, and our Shep is ok because he has his friends, he loses them, but they have been what matters most to him. This was a Sheppard who had no relationships, he was completely alone. He was a solitary man, like the Man in Black said. It only furthers the idea that Sheppard is defined by his relationships.

I wish every Sheppard-centric episode had had Johnny Cash playing in it.

prion
January 3rd, 2009, 08:20 PM
First, it had easter eggs - David Magee's name on a glass door/window, special 'guest appearances' scattered here and there, little nods to various people...nice touches.


It's late at night. I remember seeing his name on the door behind Sheppard. WHO is David Magee?

Amalthea
January 3rd, 2009, 08:44 PM
I think this episode was very interesting and fun. Of course, I am very partial to alternate reality episodes, though, since the old Sliders days. I think the idea of how one choice in your life changes its entire course may be a theme in Enemy at the Gates (I have remained completely spoiler-free about it, though, so it's all guesses).

I knew people would complain that it wasn't "our" universe and therefore doesn't matter, but clearly, as the end showed, it did matter! The Wraiths are coming! The Wraiths are coming!

And who doesn't love a Walter cameo? LOL It's nice to see him in there.

The makeup on the wraith was fantastic, too. They deserve some kind of award for that whole human actor turned to wraith turned human trick they did.

Overall, great episode! Very insightful and creative. Well done team.

dasNdanger
January 3rd, 2009, 08:49 PM
dasNDanger, great post! I agree, a lot. Although, I see Vegas Shep and our Shep differently. IMHO Shep is defined by his relationships, and our Shep is ok because he has his friends, he loses them, but they have been what matters most to him. This was a Sheppard who had no relationships, he was completely alone. He was a solitary man, like the Man in Black said. It only furthers the idea that Sheppard is defined by his relationships.

I wish every Sheppard-centric episode had had Johnny Cash playing in it.

Yes, I agree - Sheppard is defined, or shaped, by his relationships. But deep down inside, he's still going to be the same man. So, although our Sheppard has friends and all, inside he's still just a solitary man. He pushes people away, he doesn't - sometimes can't - openly share with them, and he pummels himself every chance he gets. Now we know this because we - the audience - have seen it. But the team hasn't always been privy to those moments...they don't always see the guy who's beating himself up on the inside, they only see the snarky, confident guy who doesn't take crap from anyone. But in this AU, Sheppard is exposed to everyone around him - he's visibly beaten up, he's miserable - he's the personification of the failure that our Sheppard believes himself to be. The difference is that our Sheppard still fights...whereas AU Sheppard had given up, at least until Rodney told him that - somewhere inside - there was a hero.

Another thing I failed to bring out was - even in this low state - Sheppard was still brilliant in mind. Sheppard - not the 'experts' - was able to track down the Wraith. Again, it tells us how much of Sheppard is nature, and how much is 'nurture'. Sheppard, by nature, is self-critical, yet intelligent...not 'book smarts', as they say...but instinctual. He's the guy who will figure out how to get things done, even if it doesn't always work out as planned.

Oh, I could say more...but I really need to get to bed!



It's late at night. I remember seeing his name on the door behind Sheppard. WHO is David Magee?

He's the production coordinator, I believe. The name was so obvious, I figured it was a nod to someone, so I looked it up. :)

das

Mekarri
January 3rd, 2009, 09:08 PM
Really? that suprised me i thought a lot of people wouldnt like it because it was so different.
I didn't like it. No stargate. No team. Last two eps. But a lot of people enjoyed it and that is a good thing. I hope the last show doesn't disappoint but we will see.

Lorr
January 3rd, 2009, 09:27 PM
In all fairness, Vegas was pitched before they knew the show was ending. The Ratings were at a record high when the renewal decision was taken place. So makes you wonder about the whole thing.

Remember "Lost City" the producers of Stargate were ready to end the series, they did not think there would be an 8th season, but the success of Season 7 made SCI FI renew the show and pick up SGA at the same time.

So why not renew SGA?...

With SGU it is different, Brad Wright has made it clear he does not want to produce 40 eps again. I betcha my membership here that SCI FI was going to renew SGA and let SGU run along it for at least one season, but then MGM and the producers said it would be better to just end SGA now and go with the movie format.Someone recently posted in JM's blog that MGM and SciFi were willing to go ahead with S6 of SGA. The axe came from elsewhere. JM did not argue the remark at all, rather he seemed to say "yeah, go figure". I can't remember the exact quote or date, but it was interesting.


I'm really surprised at how much hate is being hurled at this show. Of course, everyone has their own tastes in entertainment, but I - personally - was very impressed with this episode.

First, it had easter eggs - David Magee's name on a glass door/window, special 'guest appearances' scattered here and there, little nods to various people...nice touches.

The soundtrack was awesome, the editing sleek and edgy, and whole look and feel of the ep was...well...not cheesy like so many SGA episodes in the past. You know the ones, with the fake moss and styrofoam boulders and medieval peasant-types roaming about. No - this felt like the real world - the great 'what if' the Wraith did make it to earth. This is the thing that could happen - ya know, if the Wraith were real, and all. ;) It helped tie SGA into the here and now, it helped make it all a bit more believable.

I find from reading some comments that the biggest problem people had is that their favorite characters were not in the show. Now, this is understandable, especially with the show coming to an end. Instead of seeing cameos and stuff, people wanted to see Ronon and Teyla and Lorne and...well...the gateroom and all that is familiar to them. Instead, they got Vegas, and a Sheppard they didn't know, and a humorless Rodney, and an unfrazzled Zelenka...well...slightly unfrazzled...and - oh, yeah... a little McKeller hint...and poor Todd, totally off his nut. The characters were not the characters people wanted to see - they were not 'OUR' characters.

Still...take some time to learn from the episode.

I've already listed the wealth of knowledge we've gleaned from the Vegas Wraith. We Wraith fans are calling him Spike, for obvious reasons. Keep in mind that Atlantis isn't just about the Lanteans, but it is very much about the Wraith, and up until this season, we really haven't learned very much about them. But now, we have. Spike gave us a lot of insight into Wraith - still not enough for me, but it is something, at least. So - what exactly, did we learn? Well, we learned that Wraith do have feelings, they do fear, they do hope. They just keep it all bundled up inside, afraid to show their weaknesses.

Sound familiar? Who else is like that?

Oh, yeah. John Sheppard. Keeps it all bundled up inside. Doesn't want to show his weakness. Until this episode. Don't you guys get it? This was John Sheppard turned inside out - exposed - this is what OUR John Sheppard is on the inside. Different life circumstances, yes...but it's still the same guy - just from a different standpoint. We were seeing Sheppard turned inside out...we were shown his weaknesses. This is the guy our Sheppard could be - would be - and may still be. It's him - it's his potential...it's him at his very worst, and - in some ways - his very best.

Watch the episode to learn about John Sheppard as he really is on the inside - beaten up, disheveled, looking out for himself, willing to quit, take what isn't his and run away. Knowing that should make you appreciate OUR Sheppard all the more. You know what he's fighting against inside, and you know why he does some of the things he does...right or wrong, at least now you understand them.

This really was a deep episode. Maybe it was boring to some because you just want to see what's on the surface, and not think any deeper about it. I mean...think...we see a Wraith 'breakdown', as it were...as much as a Wraith can show emotion over his situation. We see another Wraith already broken...rambling on about things that make no sense except to himself. Was he echoing the thoughts of his fellow Wraith, all alone in the desert, busy building his device, hoping for rescue? I think he was. I think he was the more dangerous of the two...trapped, yes. But who put it in the other Wraith's mind to build the device...to tap into the power lines? Could it be a Wraith who is far more intelligent - perhaps more devious - than most...a Wraith who could understand the dimensional rifts...who knew that the signal would go out to many universes, and not just their own? Now - that is pure speculation...but...what if? What if there was more to this episode than a poker scene and a gunfight in the desert?

We also see some of the things Rodney is made of. This isn't our Rodney, but he's still made of the same stuff. We see him capable of coldblooded torture - 'we've tried everything...' Imagine what that meant for Todd. Was he insane from hunger, or from abuse? Still defiant, still proud...that is his nature...that is not easily broken, no matter how hard Rodney and his men tried. But we see another side to Rodney, too...we see a gentle, caring side...a side that tries to inspire a man who's wallowing in self-pity...a side that can see a man's true potential even when the man cannot see it himself...or even believe it himself. Yes...there is a lot more to this ep than meets the eye.

I just think this was a thinking man's episode - it wasn't just about the ride, but about what the ride teaches you. If you keep your eyes closed and scream until it's over, you've only experienced the feel of the ride. But if you keep your eyes open, if you pay attention to the scenary as it flashes past you - if you listen to the sounds swirling around you - then you don't just feel the ride, but you understand the ride.

Give it another try...watch it for what it tells you about our Sheppard. What it tells you about Wraith. What it tells you about Rodney. And see if it doesn't mean a little more to you.
dasGreat post! I disagree a little about the extent of our Sheppard's internal turmoil, but otherwise ITA!

Morrolan
January 3rd, 2009, 09:55 PM
I think, at the end of the day, folks don't need to worry about whether or not this fan or that fan or the number of fans that do/didn't like the episode.

Just express your own opinion and don't lose sleep over the rest.

I agree with you, but I have a major problem with the writers being attacked for their creativity and technical writing. What is this, the 300 and something-th episode of a very successful franchise? Yes, it makes me question whether or not they are fans of Stargate or just on the board to criticize. I've read alot of fan fiction here and other places, and to be honest, it doesn't hold a candle to the average Atlantis screenplay.

I did overreact, but it's one of my big pet peeves. Sorry about that.


Thanks for posting reason. ;)


Someone recently posted in JM's blog that MGM and SciFi were willing to go ahead with S6 of SGA. The axe came from elsewhere. JM did not argue the remark at all, rather he seemed to say "yeah, go figure". I can't remember the exact quote or date, but it was interesting.The decision came internally. Many people don't realize that the show was not technically canceled by the network, but by the production team. It's exactly like The Shield or Battlestar Galactica. It was just time to end.

Woden
January 3rd, 2009, 09:58 PM
I would like to know the music during the chase in the casino and the song after the wraith makes the jump and walks off after that.

tsaxlady
January 3rd, 2009, 10:06 PM
Overall I enjoyed the episode. As a fan of Joel Goldsmiths music it as fun to see him have a cameo in the episode as well.

It is nice to see a departure from the normal fare every once in a while.

Lorr
January 3rd, 2009, 10:35 PM
I agree with you, but I have a major problem with the writers being attacked for their creativity and technical writing. What is this, the 300 and something-th episode of a very successful franchise? Yes, it makes me question whether or not they are fans of Stargate or just on the board to criticize. I've read alot of fan fiction here and other places, and to be honest, it doesn't hold a candle to the average Atlantis screenplay.

I did overreact, but it's one of my big pet peeves. Sorry about that.


Thanks for posting reason. ;)

The decision came internally. Many people don't realize that the show was not technically canceled by the network, but by the production team. It's exactly like The Shield or Battlestar Galactica. It was just time to end.I respectfully disagree that it was time for SGA. I know it was 200 SG1 and 100 SGA episodes, but I really, truly believe they had only scratched the surface of what could have been done in Pegasus. There was a whole city of possibilities, a lot of unexplored Ancient technology they could have found out in Pegasus and even a few more plain old fashioned team episodes. I think there might have been a number of one off stories, completely unrelated to the Wraith, Genii or any other running storylines. I just think it's a shame. But, that is only my opinion.

Pandora's_Box
January 3rd, 2009, 10:37 PM
Many have commented on the depth in this ep, but I didn't see it. This AU's Shep was dark and depressed and had a death wish. While it may not be as realized in the "real" universe's Shep, he's displayed various stages of those characteristics for several seasons now. Heck, IMO he's shown quite a progression to a darker level as the show has gone on. What this AU's Shep has on the outside, our Shep has on the inside. Sorry, but I didn't find this revelation all that deep.

:: applauds ::

My thoughts exactly.

I grow weary of "dark and depressing" being equated with "deep and meaningful". Someone made the assertion on another thread that Sheppard's sacrifice at the end would have meant less if he hadn't been the disgraced loser of this AU and it got me thinking; is that really the majority perception of what defines a meaningful action?

In other words, is a sacrifice worth more if it's made by the person you would least expect to make it?



No, I thought this ep was great for its flash and oh look shiny! but failed when it tried to deliver something of substance.

Again, I agree.


I agree with you, but I have a major problem with the writers being attacked for their creativity and technical writing. What is this, the 300 and something-th episode of a very successful franchise? Yes, it makes me question whether or not they are fans of Stargate or just on the board to criticize. I've read alot of fan fiction here and other places, and to be honest, it doesn't hold a candle to the average Atlantis screenplay.


:: shakes head ::

In the spirit of the Community Vision, I will refrain.

I should get a gold star, Sky.

DaRngATe
January 3rd, 2009, 11:37 PM
i didnt mind this episode. It sort of reminded me of Las Vegas and CSI with the camera work and editing but i would have like to have seen a flashback of how there reality got in contact with our reality. Also i think David Hewlett looked like he enjoyed his part a bit to much, which i liked. All in all i like this episode more then some that have me made this season

wiseleo
January 3rd, 2009, 11:45 PM
This episode was interesting.

To begin with, I just finished watching Firefly the other day, so I was still in a space western mood. At first I thought this was a Wraith mind control reality where the team was captured and their minds were linked.

It felt a bit Matrix'ish to me for that reason.

As it progressed, it became apparent that they potentially activated another mirror device as once happened in SG-1 or something similar when that Daedalus from another reality showed up near Atlantis and took them on a joyride.

Rodney and the team appear to be from our reality.

Let's see what happens when Wraith figure out where Earth is. Should be interesting. :)

fwupow
January 4th, 2009, 12:30 AM
I couldn't help but think that somebody was trying to promote Joe Flannigan for the lead role in a new CSI: Las Vegas or something. I'm not a CSI fan/viewer, so I wasn't exactly feeling it. Wasn't digging the Wraithmetal Satan music either.

It was definitely something different to have the entire show set on the OTHER side of an inter-dimensional rift.

I enjoyed the appearance of Brad Wright and RCC at one of the gaming tables.

All I can say is that it was inventive and original but also, it wasn't Stargate Atlantis. It made you feel like you were watching an episode from a different TV series of whole different genre.

Morrolan
January 4th, 2009, 12:33 AM
I respectfully disagree that it was time for SGA. I know it was 200 SG1 and 100 SGA episodes, but I really, truly believe they had only scratched the surface of what could have been done in Pegasus. There was a whole city of possibilities, a lot of unexplored Ancient technology they could have found out in Pegasus and even a few more plain old fashioned team episodes. I think there might have been a number of one off stories, completely unrelated to the Wraith, Genii or any other running storylines. I just think it's a shame. But, that is only my opinion.

I don't mean the series had run its course. I mean it was time for the creative and productions teams to move on to something else, from that viewpoint. I, personally, would have loved another 5 years of Atlantis.

wiseleo
January 4th, 2009, 02:24 AM
Looking further, I feel compelled to comment on Wraith.

The classic Manson track was spot-on, intriguing, and definitely made me sit up. "This will be something different!".

Although, thinking further, the producers could have picked a song from the Mechanical Animals album. Titles like "Posthuman" or "I want to disappear" or "The last day on Earth" sound fitting, don't you think? A bit of an easter egg for Manson fans.

I guess they figured everyone would know "Beautiful people".

Recall that they always show Wraith as the gun fodder for SGA team. Recall that they suggest there are different classes of intelligence. Here we have what is presumably an ordinary Wraith who is far from being unskilled. He could be autonomous, or under influence of Todd. That, I doubt we will ever know unless he's in the movie. They did go through a very thorough introduction for his character. I refuse to believe he's done.

As for Todd... You never know what kind of trouble or help Todd can bring to your doorstep. Sheppard understood him. Others wrote him off as nonsense. It is interesting to review just that bit of dialog to grasp what he's trying to say. Instructions? Directions?

The chair sequence was very suspenseful indeed.

The initial CSIness was cute. That's certainly one good way to snap one out of reality.

ZanderJ
January 4th, 2009, 04:11 AM
A very interesting and innovating episode in my opinion. Sure, they had yet another parralel universe episode (I think Atlantis had done more of these then SG-1 by now? Although...) but what an episode was that! The soundtrack was good, the ending was brilliant and I was actually pleased with the way it all happend. John dieing was the good choice, and the way he died was brilliantly executed.

The Wraith was good aswell, although one might wonder how he gotten so far, you can't overthink these things. It just happend. Great for him, interesting for us!

The sopranos characters were a nice touch aswell. I always like seeing actors from totally different shows act their way in something new. This was no exeption.

And Todd, well he was brilliantly executed. He sorta reminded me of a Hybrid from BSG. A new reason to fall inlove with the character.

So yeah, I thunk it was a good epi!

JadedWraith
January 4th, 2009, 04:54 AM
I have to say I wish that Teyla and Ronon had been a part of this ep, but I LOVE it as it was too. I agree their screen time was limited at best and often as wall dressing. They could have been used as experts on the Wraith and help AU Shep to track the Wraith but that would have changed the whole feel of this piece.



I was whining about Teyla and Ronon being absent from this episode in my previous post but its basic premise in this AU was Sheppard never joined the Stargate Program. Without Sheppard, apparently no one else established any kind of working relationship with the natives of Pegasus, and the teams were probably Earth based. To his many faults as a leader, Shep was able to recognize value outside his own home planet.


Another thought this episode inspired me was about the final scene with Wraith and Shep:

They were both stranded man, the wraith by the fortunes of battle and Shep by his own bad choices in that AU. Who was the most tragic character?


As for this episode not providing many answers: I guess it was never meant to. Personally, I hate when everything is spelled out for me. I prefer to connect the dots on my own.

Southern Red
January 4th, 2009, 05:19 AM
Yes, I agree - Sheppard is defined, or shaped, by his relationships. But deep down inside, he's still going to be the same man. So, although our Sheppard has friends and all, inside he's still just a solitary man. He pushes people away, he doesn't - sometimes can't - openly share with them, and he pummels himself every chance he gets. Now we know this because we - the audience - have seen it. But the team hasn't always been privy to those moments...they don't always see the guy who's beating himself up on the inside, they only see the snarky, confident guy who doesn't take crap from anyone. But in this AU, Sheppard is exposed to everyone around him - he's visibly beaten up, he's miserable - he's the personification of the failure that our Sheppard believes himself to be. The difference is that our Sheppard still fights...whereas AU Sheppard had given up, at least until Rodney told him that - somewhere inside - there was a hero.

Another thing I failed to bring out was - even in this low state - Sheppard was still brilliant in mind. Sheppard - not the 'experts' - was able to track down the Wraith. Again, it tells us how much of Sheppard is nature, and how much is 'nurture'. Sheppard, by nature, is self-critical, yet intelligent...not 'book smarts', as they say...but instinctual. He's the guy who will figure out how to get things done, even if it doesn't always work out as planned.

Oh, I could say more...but I really need to get to bed!




He's the production coordinator, I believe. The name was so obvious, I figured it was a nod to someone, so I looked it up. :)

das

Your insights on Sheppard are very accurate IMHO. We saw in Remnants that he beats himself up over the things he couldn't prevent, mostly deaths of people he cared about. He's a tortured soul and has been since probably before he came to Pegasus. He hides it with snark and does the cocky flyboy thing because he thinks that's what people expect. That way they will dismiss him as not a threat...e.g. Kolya. Then when they least expect it he smites them...e.g.Kolya. He also hides his intelligence for the same reason. I think Vegas Sheppard had been doing that so long he had gotten rusty at being smart, but all he was shown and told by Rodney made him sharp again. You're right, he's our Sheppard turned inside out.

Some have complained about dark Sheppard and I guess we all would have loved to have seen the happy go lucky side of him more, but IMHO that would have been ludicrous. How can someone laugh and joke all the time when aliens are trying to kill him and his friends on a daily basis? I think the progression of John from S1-S5 has been well done. He gradually began to turn dark from the loss of Sumner to Ford to Weir and all the men and women he lost under his command in between. Meanwhile he did an admirable job of distracting himself with silly games like playing cars in the halls. His life was putting out major fires constantly. No one can not be changed by that.

Briangate78
January 4th, 2009, 06:16 AM
Someone recently posted in JM's blog that MGM and SciFi were willing to go ahead with S6 of SGA. The axe came from elsewhere. JM did not argue the remark at all, rather he seemed to say "yeah, go figure". I can't remember the exact quote or date, but it was interesting.



Brad Wright did not want to produce 40 eps anymore. He is Stargate Productions, him and RCC. Joe M is not going to show is bitterness since he still has a job. Wright even said the show could of gone at least one more season based on it's numbers. I am just tired of the BS.

Anyway, getting back on topic, Vegas ws Brilliant. I just wish it would of been like maybe episode 516 or 517. I still wish the finale was a 2-parter, like they have done in the past. Heck, The Seige was 3 parts. So was the Season 3 finale going into the Season 4 premiere. Those eps were some of the best eps of the series.

Again, the whole thing boils down to the above statement, the show was not supposed to end. They had one episode to change around, the rest were already sealed and done. So, I am going to give credit to the Atlantis producers for doing the best they can in such short notice.

Briangate78
January 4th, 2009, 06:21 AM
Your insights on Sheppard are very accurate IMHO. We saw in Remnants that he beats himself up over the things he couldn't prevent, mostly deaths of people he cared about. He's a tortured soul and has been since probably before he came to Pegasus. He hides it with snark and does the cocky flyboy thing because he thinks that's what people expect. That way they will dismiss him as not a threat...e.g. Kolya. Then when they least expect it he smites them...e.g.Kolya. He also hides his intelligence for the same reason. I think Vegas Sheppard had been doing that so long he had gotten rusty at being smart, but all he was shown and told by Rodney made him sharp again. You're right, he's our Sheppard turned inside out.

Some have complained about dark Sheppard and I guess we all would have loved to have seen the happy go lucky side of him more, but IMHO that would have been ludicrous. How can someone laugh and joke all the time when aliens are trying to kill him and his friends on a daily basis? I think the progression of John from S1-S5 has been well done. He gradually began to turn dark from the loss of Sumner to Ford to Weir and all the men and women he lost under his command in between. Meanwhile he did an admirable job of distracting himself with silly games like playing cars in the halls. His life was putting out major fires constantly. No one can not be changed by that.

I totally agree that they have progressed Sheppard very well. He seemed to always be this troubled person beating himself up, allowed himself to get close to people, only to either lose them or have to live with the guilt of not being able to rescue them. The opening sequence to "Search and Rescue" was excellent to how they portrayed Sheppard. Remnants carried this and then we got Vegas which is basically a more detailed look at Sheppard. Like someone said above, he has always been known to be this person who would risk his life for others. With Vegas, he finally gave his life to protect Earth.

JohnDuh
January 4th, 2009, 07:04 AM
Well, that was pretty uninteresting. That I've never seen CSI, and that I think Flannigan is frequently out acted by the furniture may have contributed; that is not a new idea, and not as fresh as when Star Trek did it 40 years ago probably added a bit as well. I don't mind some alternative stuff, if its made differently.

They forgot to bring the funny, trying to be all serious and stuff - not sure that is really within their grasp. Funny is though.

Now if they had to do a reuse of cheap sets from another show, they could have gone for "Chuck"; Rodney as a computer support nerd who knows too much but has to work at a tech store, with Ronon and Teyla as the FBI/CIA team there to protect him, and Shepard and Keller as the slightly inept opposition trying to kill him. Comedy gold waiting to happen *g*


Glad to see they managed to jump the shark before the end though; when you've seen Wraith playing poker you've seen it all.

Cory Holmes
January 4th, 2009, 07:55 AM
I thought 200 was 42 minutes of self indulgent navel gazing, so IMO Vegas >> 200. ;)

Damn straight. Virtual Green to you.

gioia
January 4th, 2009, 08:09 AM
P.S.- Some interesting reviews of this ep on LJ. Great insights and some nice links to some vids. Leave comments they would appreciate your imput.;)

http://horridporrid.livejournal.com/33782.html?style=mine

http://x-erikah-x.livejournal.com/102332.html?style=mine

I'm REALLY gonna miss this show:sheppardanime32:

thank you so much for the links. they were great and very insightful. I started to fall in love with this episode, I think. I wish RCC did write more episodes on Atlantis then I'd be certainly a more fan of this show and Sheppard.

Rac80
January 4th, 2009, 09:02 AM
I watched the episode again and notice that Rodney is wearing a wedding ring. Didn't notice it the 1st time I watched. Wonder if he and Jennifer are married in this reality. Not that that particular "ship" is of any significance to me. Just thought it was interesting to see Rodney wearing a wedding ring.

I didn't see anything to indicate they were married. the one scene in the hallway just seemed to emphasize that keller wasn't your typical M.E. , she was there due to her experience in Pegasus.


They have gone to help solve problems on Earth before in our reality so wouldn't they do the same in the AU.


if a wraith can get tossed across two galaxies and find his way to earth and learn how to apply hollywood quality prosthetic makeup, they could have found roles for ronon and teyla had they wanted to.

I think it woulda been a trip to have ronon a waiter serving the wraith drinks at the poker game and to have teyla be a card shark. it'd have been a great opportunity to allow both of the actors to appear as themselves - ie sans wigs

a missed opportunity to let the 'team' come out and play instead of the, imho, overused favored characters
*nods vigorously* yep yep I agree. I missed ronon and teyla!


Wow, people either loved it or hated it. I thought it was great to move out of the "pretty" Atlantis set where everything is so clean and shiny and to tell a different story.

I'm sorry not every character could be used and that some people couldn't stand the CSI-feel/music/whatever.

Frankly I enjoyed the episode and was entertained (*ahem, which is the entire purpose anyway ~ entertainment). I suppose if it wasn't entertaining, you could always change the channel.


I couldn't help but think that somebody was trying to promote Joe Flannigan for the lead role in a new CSI: Las Vegas or something. I'm not a CSI fan/viewer, so I wasn't exactly feeling it. Wasn't digging the Wraithmetal Satan music either.

It was definitely something different to have the entire show set on the OTHER side of an inter-dimensional rift.

I enjoyed the appearance of Brad Wright and RCC at one of the gaming tables.

All I can say is that it was inventive and original but also, it wasn't Stargate Atlantis. It made you feel like you were watching an episode from a different TV series of whole different genre.

It was an okay ep. I am not a fan of the CSI series (I don't watch much commerical tv :P mostly nerd tv- documentaries etc...) and didn 't find it particularly innovative. it was okay...interesting story, dark shep, obnoxious mckay (as always), and woolsey as FBI :eek:. not the best, not the worst, just meh.

prattmic
January 4th, 2009, 09:08 AM
I really did not like this episode; it is probably one of my least favorite episodes of all time. I like that they were trying to do something different, but this didn't feel like science fiction, let alone Stargate. It seems to be a standard detective show where they replaced the terrorist/bomb with a wraith/communicator. The end was the only part that was O.K. because it at least led into the series finale.

Oka
January 4th, 2009, 10:10 AM
I like how they went completely over the top this time, instead of making a half-assed attempt to make a different kind of episode that isn't just based on the run of the mill Stargate formula.

Some parts were good, the scenery, the music (most of it) the tie in with the alternate dimensions and what not towards the end. Some things were kinda cheesy, the emo wraith for instance. But, as I said, at least they tried this time instead of making a boring episode that's been done 10 times before.

6/10.

Coaster
January 4th, 2009, 10:21 AM
I enjoyed the episode, overall. Specific things:

- Sheppard. Joe F. did a fantastic job. I think he's a natural for this sort of role, maybe even more than for the usual Sheppard we know.

- The Wraith. The one who wasn't Todd was awesome- would have fit right in on Torchwood. His putting on his makeup etc. to the Beautiful People song made me laugh. I liked creepy poetic Todd as well.

- Loved the poker game, with the Sopranos guys' banter and the others' tension around the silent Wraith.

- The Johnny Cash thread throughout the entire episode, alternating with the heavy metal theme surrounding the Wraith. Well done.

- Zelenka in a suit! *fangirls*

- Woolsey knowing the Star Trek Experience was closed. That gave me a chuckle. I have to wonder if it was because his kids had wanted to go, in this reality. I also loved that Zelenka had wanted to go.

- I liked Keller's cold and clinical personality in this one. It was intriguing.

- Rodney's personality intrigued me as well, and actually made me uneasy. He was a lot darker and maybe a bit unstable. The bickering with Zelenka sounded so much like "our" Rodney that it seemed like an abrupt personality change from the one we were seeing a few seconds before and after.

I would love to see a few more episodes with this particular set of characters and personalities! Too bad they aren't planning a spinoff of this very thing. (Of course, they'd have to do that quick helicopter rescue of Sheppard.)

pbutter
January 4th, 2009, 11:16 AM
I actually found this episode to be quite entertaining, mostly because of Alternate-Reality Sheppard and (especially) McKay.
It was original.

Morrolan
January 4th, 2009, 11:33 AM
I like how they went completely over the top this time, instead of making a half-assed attempt to make a different kind of episode that isn't just based on the run of the mill Stargate formula.

Some parts were good, the scenery, the music (most of it) the tie in with the alternate dimensions and what not towards the end. Some things were kinda cheesy, the emo wraith for instance. But, as I said, at least they tried this time instead of making a boring episode that's been done 10 times before.

6/10.

You hit on the one thing that did bother me about the Wraith. Very emo. I didn't like his wardrobe, though the facial appearance seemed very realistic. I would suspect he would have a hard time hiding the Wraith facial features. I also didn't like Sheppard's car. To me, it didn't seem to fit him.

JohnDuh
January 4th, 2009, 11:51 AM
You don't have to agree with their opinions but you do need to respect them


So what you are saying is there are some opinions you don't respect? ;)

jds1982
January 4th, 2009, 12:00 PM
How many great episodes of SG-1 had absolutely nothing to do with the "Goa'uld Arc"? A great many that I can recall. I hate the term filler episode, as if that particular story doesn't add something to the Stargate universe.

prion
January 4th, 2009, 12:24 PM
You hit on the one thing that did bother me about the Wraith. Very emo. I didn't like his wardrobe, though the facial appearance seemed very realistic. I would suspect he would have a hard time hiding the Wraith facial features. I also didn't like Sheppard's car. To me, it didn't seem to fit him.

Ah, his wardrobe was perfect for Vegas. Tacky. I mean, the place is probably80% tourists, many of whom don't know how to dress, so, he did well ;) Sheppard's car I think was straight out of "Vegas" (1978 detective drama with Robert Urich, who drove an old T-bird). With this AU Sheppard, it's possible it was the only car he could afford. With his debt, etc. he wasn't exactly going to be buying a Lexus ;)

Morrolan
January 4th, 2009, 01:01 PM
Ah, his wardrobe was perfect for Vegas. Tacky. I mean, the place is probably80% tourists, many of whom don't know how to dress, so, he did well ;) Sheppard's car I think was straight out of "Vegas" (1978 detective drama with Robert Urich, who drove an old T-bird). With this AU Sheppard, it's possible it was the only car he could afford. With his debt, etc. he wasn't exactly going to be buying a Lexus ;)Nothing was wrong with the wardrobe, I just didn't like it. It definitely worked for the character. I wasn't thinking a Lexus or anything extravagant like that, but something with a little elbow grease in it, like a blower or side pipes. That Sheppard struck me as a gearhead type. Now I realize I'm projecting Cam in Continuum on him. Nix the car statement.

I wonder if he was $13k in debt because of the car... ;)

dasNdanger
January 4th, 2009, 02:27 PM
You hit on the one thing that did bother me about the Wraith. Very emo. I didn't like his wardrobe, though the facial appearance seemed very realistic. I would suspect he would have a hard time hiding the Wraith facial features. I also didn't like Sheppard's car. To me, it didn't seem to fit him.

But wasn't 'emo' fitting for him? In the trailer scene, he is definitely suffering emotionally - either due to his own situation, or because he's sensing Todd's insanity, or a little of both. And he had every reason to feel such emotion...he was trapped behind enemy lines, stranded on a planet light years from home and from his own kind. Sure, he could just hang out on earth for the next 10,000 years, sucking on the odd hitchhiker or two, but imagine the loneliness of such an existence. I get the feeling that Wraith 'need' to be mentally connected to the hive...to tap into that massive amount of thought that exists in their society. They really don't seem to like being alone.

So the emo portrayal was fitting - though I, personally, didn't see it so much as 'emo' as 'goth', which carries a with it a different attitude, one that isn't so self-pitying but more stoic and self-confident, which 'Spike' was. I didn't see him as self-pitying, just angry and scared and desperately hoping to be rescued.

Poor guy.

das

prion
January 4th, 2009, 02:32 PM
Nothing was wrong with the wardrobe, I just didn't like it. It definitely worked for the character. I wasn't thinking a Lexus or anything extravagant like that, but something with a little elbow grease in it, like a blower or side pipes. That Sheppard struck me as a gearhead type. Now I realize I'm projecting Cam in Continuum on him. Nix the car statement.

I wonder if he was $13k in debt because of the car... ;)

Ha, yeah, the car could easily put him in debt in repairs, etc., but I'm sure a lot had to do with his gambling habit, which is what I think earned him the bruise/cut on the face (probably one of Mikey's goons). Oh, as for the wraith's outfit. No, wouldn't be caught dead in it, but it worked for him ;)

Coaster
January 4th, 2009, 02:49 PM
So the emo portrayal was fitting - though I, personally, didn't see it so much as 'emo' as 'goth', which carries a with it a different attitude, one that isn't so self-pitying but more stoic and self-confident, which 'Spike' was. I didn't see him as self-pitying, just angry and scared and desperately hoping to be rescued.

Poor guy.

das

I saw him as seriously goth. It was great. There he was sitting there with all those other guys who just didn't know what to make of him. What I'd like to know is how did he get into the game? Probably just flashed a bunch of cash. :D

I liked Shep's car. I was actually a little sad when it got all shot up. :o

StarOcean
January 4th, 2009, 03:02 PM
It really sucks that Ronon or Teyla weren't in the second to last episode of SGA and I'm disappointed that the writers didn't seem to even attempt to write them in.

While it makes sense that they might have not joined Atlantis because Sheppard wasn't there, that's only one possibility. There's too much missing information for this AU that it's more unbelievable, and reflects more about the writes than the story, that the episode didn't try to include them. That the writers decided on a story decision that keeps Teyla and Ronon absent, from a season in which their presence already feels lacking, makes me wonder why. It really feels like the writers didn't even try to give them screen time. That they just hit upon a reason why they wouldn't be there, shut down and stopped thinking any further.

They could have had Ronon, or him and Teyla, be Rodney's bodyguard(s). Rodney could have showed Sheppard the enormity of the situation by telling Sheppard that Ronon was the sole survivor of his planet, and Ronon can emote how much he hates the Wraith. Or show Teyla walking out of the room of Todd's cell, saying that she still couldn't get anything out of him. Or she could have taken the place of the soldier with the gun that was guarding Todd. Or she could have been Todd's interrogater and torturer. Or they could have a small scene where Rodney says that she can sense Wraith and that they've been using her but they haven't been able to find that Wraith. Or another scene where Teyla is on a viewscreen saying that no other hiveships have been tracked heading towards Earth.

Something!

Morrolan
January 4th, 2009, 03:30 PM
It really sucks that Ronon or Teyla weren't in the second to last episode of SGA and I'm disappointed that the writers didn't seem to even attempt to write them in.

While it makes sense that they might have not joined Atlantis because Sheppard wasn't there, that's only one possibility. There's too much missing information for this AU that it's more unbelievable, and reflects more about the writes than the story, that the episode didn't try to include them. That the writers decided on a story decision that keeps Teyla and Ronon absent, from a season in which their presence already feels lacking, makes me wonder why. It really feels like the writers didn't even try to give them screen time. That they just hit upon a reason why they wouldn't be there, shut down and stopped thinking any further.

They could have had Ronon, or him and Teyla, be Rodney's bodyguard(s). Rodney could have showed Sheppard the enormity of the situation by telling Sheppard that Ronon was the sole survivor of his planet, and Ronon can emote how much he hates the Wraith. Or show Teyla walking out of the room of Todd's cell, saying that she still couldn't get anything out of him. Or she could have taken the place of the soldier with the gun that was guarding Todd. Or she could have been Todd's interrogater and torturer. Or they could have a small scene where Rodney says that she can sense Wraith and that they've been using her but they haven't been able to find that Wraith. Or another scene where Teyla is on a viewscreen saying that no other hiveships have been tracked heading towards Earth.

Something!

Or maybe Teyla and Ronon never met the expedition in this reality...

Greyhound225
January 4th, 2009, 03:43 PM
Without a doubt, the worst episode ever. If you are going to directly rip off another TV show and add a weak sci fi twist, does it have to be set in the same city? Were the soon to be out of work writers auditioning for a staff spot opening on CSI? It took nearly 55 minutes to get to the point for a lame lead in for the final episode. Episodes like this must have made the SciFi Channel's decision to cancel an easy one. Sad to see a once great show like SGA fall so far

Viper_Sweden
January 4th, 2009, 04:03 PM
Great, Great, GREAT Episode!!

One of the best ones in SG history, definetely.

The finger dialogue is quite simply legendary... :D

gatechick
January 4th, 2009, 04:13 PM
Wish I could say I enjoyed it. While I am sure this is somehow going to tie into nextweek, it just wasn't enjoyable. Teyla and Ronon were not in what they should have been in, considering it was the 100th ep. (Although admittedly I did flick it back and forth between another show, I was so bored, that I might have missed them.) I thought the show was lousy, boring, completely what I have come to expect of season 5 after a promising beginning. Hope next week is better.

Jumper_One
January 4th, 2009, 04:16 PM
Wisj I could say I enjoyed it. While I am sure this is somehow going to tie into nextweek, it just wasn't enjoyable. Teyla and Ronon were not in what they should have been in, considering it was the 100th ep. (Although admittedly I did flick it back and forth between another show, I was so bored, that I might have missed them.) I thought the show was lousy, boring, completely what I have come to expect of season 5 after a promising beginning. Hope next week is better.

nope it wasn't. the season finale EatG is the 100th ep

ToasterOnFire
January 4th, 2009, 04:43 PM
It really sucks that Ronon or Teyla weren't in the second to last episode of SGA and I'm disappointed that the writers didn't seem to even attempt to write them in.

While it makes sense that they might have not joined Atlantis because Sheppard wasn't there, that's only one possibility. There's too much missing information for this AU that it's more unbelievable, and reflects more about the writes than the story, that the episode didn't try to include them. That the writers decided on a story decision that keeps Teyla and Ronon absent, from a season in which their presence already feels lacking, makes me wonder why. It really feels like the writers didn't even try to give them screen time. That they just hit upon a reason why they wouldn't be there, shut down and stopped thinking any further.
Agreed, it still feels more like TPTB are hanging their hat on "Oh, it wouldn't make sense to have Teyla or Ronon in this AU" instead of thinking up some way to incorporate one or both characters into the ep.

Jumper_One
January 4th, 2009, 04:48 PM
No, EatG was canned before Vegas. In viewing order, you're correct. In production order Vegas is the 100th episode.

yeah that's what I meant :)

prion
January 4th, 2009, 04:55 PM
I did see it as Stargate Atlantis - having characters and problems from it. I also saw it as probably the best alternate universe story they've done on the series becuase for once, it wasn't just the usual "Oh, Sam and Jack are married in this AU" stuff. They did a radical departure :)

CalmStorm
January 4th, 2009, 05:01 PM
I'll keep it short and sweet...

Overall, the episode on its own was good and I liked it. However, while I realize that this is probably a set-up episode for the finale, I think this is one AU episode too many and would have preferred not to have seen another AU episode.

Morrolan
January 4th, 2009, 05:02 PM
yeah that's what I meant :)

It makes sense that Teyla and Ronon weren't in Vegas. Smaller cast and crew for the final shoot.

SG1Commander
January 4th, 2009, 05:09 PM
Despite what all the nay-sayers are saying about this episode, i really enjoyed it. The plot was amazing, the acting was great, and the music was awesome. I especially liked the Johnny Cash songs. my parents and I watched it, and they enjyoed it as well. I loved that they even brought in Harriman, i haven't seen an episode with him in it in a while.

Atlanis
January 4th, 2009, 05:11 PM
I not asheamed to admit but when Detective John Sheppard I cried my eyes out by the way I am a man

Jumper_One
January 4th, 2009, 05:20 PM
It makes sense that Teyla and Ronon weren't in Vegas. Smaller cast and crew for the final shoot.

:indeed:


Despite what all the nay-sayers are saying about this episode, i really enjoyed it. The plot was amazing, the acting was great, and the music was awesome. I especially liked the Johnny Cash songs. my parents and I watched it, and they enjyoed it as well. I loved that they even brought in Harriman, i haven't seen an episode with him in it in a while.

same here ;) Solitary Man :D

Phenix
January 4th, 2009, 05:33 PM
It really sucks that Ronon or Teyla weren't in the second to last episode of SGA and I'm disappointed that the writers didn't seem to even attempt to write them in.

While it makes sense that they might have not joined Atlantis because Sheppard wasn't there, that's only one possibility. There's too much missing information for this AU that it's more unbelievable, and reflects more about the writes than the story, that the episode didn't try to include them. That the writers decided on a story decision that keeps Teyla and Ronon absent, from a season in which their presence already feels lacking, makes me wonder why. It really feels like the writers didn't even try to give them screen time. That they just hit upon a reason why they wouldn't be there, shut down and stopped thinking any further.

They could have had Ronon, or him and Teyla, be Rodney's bodyguard(s). Rodney could have showed Sheppard the enormity of the situation by telling Sheppard that Ronon was the sole survivor of his planet, and Ronon can emote how much he hates the Wraith. Or show Teyla walking out of the room of Todd's cell, saying that she still couldn't get anything out of him. Or she could have taken the place of the soldier with the gun that was guarding Todd. Or she could have been Todd's interrogater and torturer. Or they could have a small scene where Rodney says that she can sense Wraith and that they've been using her but they haven't been able to find that Wraith. Or another scene where Teyla is on a viewscreen saying that no other hiveships have been tracked heading towards Earth.

Something!

these are all good points but this IMHO is one of the best episodes ever on SGA.

Jumper_One
January 4th, 2009, 05:39 PM
these are all good points but this IMHO is one of the best episodes ever on SGA.

definitely one of the best AU eps imo

Pandora's_Box
January 4th, 2009, 05:48 PM
definitely one of the best AU eps imo

Implying that it's not one of the best of all the episodes? ;)

SG1Commander
January 4th, 2009, 06:02 PM
:indeed:



same here ;) Solitary Man :D

I was just thinking. With BSG they have soundtracks for each season, why don't they do that with SGA and SG-1. Solitary Man would be great on an SGA CD.:sheppard:

Jumper_One
January 4th, 2009, 06:07 PM
Implying that it's not one of the best of all the episodes? ;)

nah it's in my top 10 of s5 :)


I was just thinking. With BSG they have soundtracks for each season, why don't they do that with SGA and SG-1. Solitary Man would be great on an SGA CD.:sheppard:

agreed

SG1Commander
January 4th, 2009, 06:12 PM
There was one part in the episode that really startled me.

That they killed off Sheppard. Granted he's from an alternate reality then ours, they still killed Sheppard in a sense.

Other than that, the episode was good.

Briangate78
January 4th, 2009, 06:13 PM
nah it's in my top 10 of s5 :)



agreed

Mine too, and it seemed the majority liked this episode. :)

Jumper_One
January 4th, 2009, 06:14 PM
Specter177 writes: “This alternate reality was not one that we had seen before, correct?”

Answer: That is correct.

2cats writes: “1) Was this McKay the same as Alt-Mckay in McKay & Mrs, Miller? There is some chatter in the ether about this.”

Answer: Not sure why there would be. There was never any indication that, out of the myriad alternate universes out there, we landed in that particular one especially since this version of Rodney was nothing like Rod.
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/01/04/january-4-2009-a-guest-blogger-announcement-and-the-most-horrific-weird-food-purchase-of-the-day-yet/

fwupow
January 4th, 2009, 06:32 PM
I checked out the McKay and Mrs Miller episode and "Rod" talks about Shepard. The Shepard described by Rod is not anything like the one in "Vegas".

Joe Flanigan needs to work on his David Caruso mannerisms.

1. Try to maintain a sideways orientation with whomever you're talking to except when transitioning to the other side.
2. Try to keep your head as inverted and unnaturally angled as possible.
3. Always whisper and mumble when speaking and trust in the power of television magic to ensure that people wont briskly walk away from what appears to be a mentally unstable but unusually well-dressed street bum.
4. Don't allow more than 45 seconds to pass without at least one strategic and dramatic sunglasses removal.

prion
January 4th, 2009, 07:44 PM
Just fyi, RC Cooper will be doing a guest Q&A on Mallozzi's blog


Allow me to start off today’s entry with some exciting news - before, of course, seguing right back into the tedious offerings that typify this blog. Executive Producer/Writer/Co-Creator Robert Cooper has agreed to come by an field your questions about his piece de resistance, his chef d’oeuvre, his hors d’oeuvre and Atlantis swansong: Vegas. Yep, gather up all your queries regarding alternate universe theory and nippleless wraith and start posting because, very soon, ALL WILL BE REVEALED!

go to http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/01/04/january-4-2009-a-guest-blogger-announcement-and-the-most-horrific-weird-food-purchase-of-the-day-yet/

to leave questions, snarks, whatever ;)

Pandora's_Box
January 4th, 2009, 07:46 PM
Just fyi, RC Cooper will be doing a guest Q&A on Mallozzi's blog

go to http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/01/04/january-4-2009-a-guest-blogger-announcement-and-the-most-horrific-weird-food-purchase-of-the-day-yet/

to leave questions, snarks, whatever ;)

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

...ahem.... I mean....

I'll do that.

jelgate
January 4th, 2009, 07:50 PM
Just fyi, RC Cooper will be doing a guest Q&A on Mallozzi's bloggo to http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/01/04/january-4-2009-a-guest-blogger-announcement-and-the-most-horrific-weird-food-purchase-of-the-day-yet/ to leave questions, snarks, whatever ;)I look forward to his poor excuse about the absence of Teyla and Ronon:P

Pandora's_Box
January 4th, 2009, 08:05 PM
I look forward to his poor excuse about the absence of Teyla and Ronon:P

I would expect nothing less. :rolleyes:

Pajus
January 4th, 2009, 09:38 PM
It was nice to finally see an episode, where Idiot Sheppard had to face the consequences of his actions. That was a very nice touch

Pandora's_Box
January 4th, 2009, 09:55 PM
It was nice to finally see an episode, where Idiot Sheppard had to face the consequences of his actions. That was a very nice touch

Sure. It would have been nice if it were our Sheppard.

:mckay:

Pajus
January 4th, 2009, 09:58 PM
Sure. It would have been nice if it were our Sheppard.

:mckay:

Yeah, it would have... Does that mean Lorne was in command of the Atlantis military contingent? (finally someone, who at least looks like a soldier would be in charge there - Apart from Everett, that is)

SG-Mom
January 4th, 2009, 09:59 PM
Kudos to dasNdanger for his amazing insights into the characters of this episode! I thought this was an outstanding one, although I do understand why some folks are upset about an AU ep coming at this point in the season, and the lack of Ronan and Teyla.

Just a few thoughts:

--Several people have commented that Rodney was cold to leave John out in the desert without sending anyone to check on him as he lay dying. I think that was done as a dramatic and artistic effect, to emphasize the tragic nature of Shepherd's character and the events that had just played out.

--IMO this worked as an AU ep because it brought back one of the things we loved about SG-1: it takes place here and now and we can relate to it. Someone mentioned (sorry, I've forgotten who!:o) that it was a nice change from the slickness and futuristic look of Atlantis. It was fun to see our favorite characters out of uniform and in normal clothes - like Carter in the AU where she was a civilian with the long hair.

--So much of SG humor is done tongue in cheek, and I think that the "homage" to CSI and The Sopranos and any other show that has been mentioned here was a way of lightening up what was otherwise a very serious episode (along with all the cameos) - even down to the twangy western music in the desert scenes - not cheesy at all if done for a purpose!

--Although I agree with Briangate that this would have been great moved back one so that EatG could have been a two-parter, I think that might have been purposeful as well. After all, it will be the 100th episode, and both the 100th and 200th episodes of SG-1 were intended to be stand-alone, crazy out-of-the-box (jump the shark, whatever) eppies. Of course, it looks like it will be much more serious and true to canon than those were! I am waiting to watch it on Friday since my cable finally got SciFi in HD on Christmas Eve - great present for me! :p

morjana
January 4th, 2009, 11:56 PM
SGA - MGM Stargate: 11 NEW stills from Vegas:

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=9514582&postcount=993

shrine
January 5th, 2009, 02:43 AM
It was an interesting episode and I will be waiting for the next. I think sth gonna be happen and surprise us because vegas finished with a terrible bomb explosion in a different reality and I think this explosion will change lots of things in our SGA reality. But this is the fact that vegas is boring. But songs are really good :P

prion
January 5th, 2009, 03:03 AM
It was an interesting episode and I will be waiting for the next. I think sth gonna be happen and surprise us because vegas finished with a terrible bomb explosion in a different reality and I think this explosion will change lots of things in our SGA reality. But this is the fact that vegas is boring. But songs are really good :P

"Vegas" does have a relevant meaning for the show's finale. I liked the music, although it will not make me rush out and buy Maryln Manson tunes. Johnny cash I already own, so ... ;)

Southern Red
January 5th, 2009, 04:11 AM
Yeah, it would have... Does that mean Lorne was in command of the Atlantis military contingent? (finally someone, who at least looks like a soldier would be in charge there - Apart from Everett, that is)

And yet whoever is in charge still seems to have been unable to stop the Wraith and keep everybody safe. But I'm sure their shoes are all shined and their uniforms squared away. ;) Sorry, I couldn't resist the sarcasm.

Pajus
January 5th, 2009, 04:24 AM
And yet whoever is in charge still seems to have been unable to stop the Wraith and keep everybody safe. But I'm sure their shoes are all shined and their uniforms squared away. ;) Sorry, I couldn't resist the sarcasm.

Aw crud... I forgot about Sumner. He was okay too.

PS: Since when is it bad for a CO to show signs of proper discipline, subordination and general military-like behaviour?

Southern Red
January 5th, 2009, 04:43 AM
Aw crud... I forgot about Sumner. He was okay too.

PS: Since whe is it bad for a CO to show signs of proper discipline, subordination and general military-like behaviour?

I didn't say it was bad. What I'm saying is Sheppard is not a bad officer just because he's not spit shined. And the bad decisions you have pointed out in the past that he has made may not be exclusive to him. In other words, the CO's with proper discipline haven't stopped the Wraith any better than he did.

AnalogSun
January 5th, 2009, 04:49 AM
If you ever wanted to introduce SGA to someone who has either never seen it ,or isn't overly interested in sci-fi, "Vegas" would be the episode I'd recommend.

Mongoletsi
January 5th, 2009, 04:52 AM
it's 9:47 eastern time... still 10 minutes left... but Vegas is a very large reason why i am GLAD that Atlantis has been cancelled...

boring, dull, no sense that its a "Stargate" episode, let alone a Stargate show... and since its not "our" reality i find no interest in how it turns out...

I thought Vegas was good. What would have made it better was less SGC involvement, certainly no deus-ex-machina A-10 strikes!

It was 99% filler episode, and didn't try to hide it. Done in the CSI style, I thought it was just a good bit of fun.

blackcat124gt
January 5th, 2009, 04:56 AM
it's 9:47 eastern time... still 10 minutes left... but Vegas is a very large reason why i am GLAD that Atlantis has been cancelled...

boring, dull, no sense that its a "Stargate" episode, let alone a Stargate show... and since its not "our" reality i find no interest in how it turns out...

Well you missed out there. I would normally agree with you on that but you remember Rod from that one episode where Rodney's sister was first in. That was him on this one, its his universe. Keep reading...

Here what you missed, the whole plotline to the finally.
First off the Wraith on Vegas sent a transmission with the location of Earth to the other Wraith though it wasn't strong enough it was able to send to the Wraith in other universes/realities that where or are currently connected too ours. Which as a mentioned and you probably guess our's with Atlantis.

Now this is bad cause our Wriath know where are Earth is. As a result (The rest is what I'm predicting what would happen.) Enemy at the Gate, which it name kinda explains it, see the Enemy is at Stargate Command.

Granted this would have been predicted that this would be an Earth base episode without Atlantis, but that is wrong. I'm not 100% sure this is going to happen, but in order to defend Earth, Atlantis goes home. From what the preview gave the Atlantis Expedition plans to fly Atlantis back to Earth to fight off the Wraith, granted we all know and are aware not everything goes as planned for them. So we'll see how it turns out I guess. I know the Wraith make it. And Sheppard makes it. But this would explain how Carter and whats that guy's name makes it to Atlantis. In this episode its not SG-1 who saves Earth, today the Atlantis Expedition is the heroes. Wonder how they are going to hide the city from the rest of the world.

Bush's force powers? LOL. You do not see a high tech city laying in the ocean...LOL

Pajus
January 5th, 2009, 05:15 AM
I didn't say it was bad. What I'm saying is Sheppard is not a bad officer just because he's not spit shined. And the bad decisions you have pointed out in the past that he has made may not be exclusive to him. In other words, the CO's with proper discipline haven't stopped the Wraith any better than he did.

Do you actually know someone, who would get away with the stuff Sheppard has done to this point? Because I don't

rarocks24
January 5th, 2009, 05:17 AM
Neil Jackson sure likes getting shirtless.

CazzBlade
January 5th, 2009, 05:18 AM
Well you missed out there. I would normally agree with you on that but you remember Rod from that one episode where Rodney's sister was first in. That was him on this one, its his universe. Keep reading...


It wasn't Rod.

ToasterOnFire
January 5th, 2009, 05:38 AM
If you ever wanted to introduce SGA to someone who has either never seen it ,or isn't overly interested in sci-fi, "Vegas" would be the episode I'd recommend.
Perhaps, though Vegas was so stylistically different that they might watch the "regular" SGA eps afterward and go "meh, typical SF".

prion
January 5th, 2009, 06:06 AM
I didn't say it was bad. What I'm saying is Sheppard is not a bad officer just because he's not spit shined. And the bad decisions you have pointed out in the past that he has made may not be exclusive to him. In other words, the CO's with proper discipline haven't stopped the Wraith any better than he did.

Sheppard in our reality is a decent officer. His black mark, really, is the Afghanistan incident, although his one remark to Weir in that many folks were surprised that he even made Captain (or was that Major?) indicates he did buck the system, but not enough, though, to get discharged or anything heinous like that. He's got integrity. Yes, lots of folks made bad decisions out there, many intentionally (just look at Wall Street!)


I thought Vegas was good. What would have made it better was less SGC involvement, certainly no deus-ex-machina A-10 strikes!

It was 99% filler episode, and didn't try to hide it. Done in the CSI style, I thought it was just a good bit of fun.

Yeah, it might be a good one to recommend. A scifi/mystery combo, although as someone pointed out, once you leap to SGA, you might go "meh, scifi" as face it, scifi shows appeal to only so many people. Just the way it is.

Southern Red
January 5th, 2009, 06:15 AM
Do you actually know someone, who would get away with the stuff Sheppard has done to this point? Because I don't

We've been over and over this before on other threads. I'm tired of it. And I don't know officers exactly like him but I do know that they help each other out. If his men thought he was a good officer, they'd overlook his crooked collars. As for decisions, it's your opinion that he's done nothing right. I think he's done the best he can in extraordinary circumstances and saved the world a number of times.


Sheppard in our reality is a decent officer. His black mark, really, is the Afghanistan incident, although his one remark to Weir in that many folks were surprised that he even made Captain (or was that Major?) indicates he did buck the system, but not enough, though, to get discharged or anything heinous like that. He's got integrity. Yes, lots of folks made bad decisions out there, many intentionally (just look at Wall Street!)



Yeah, it might be a good one to recommend. A scifi/mystery combo, although as someone pointed out, once you leap to SGA, you might go "meh, scifi" as face it, scifi shows appeal to only so many people. Just the way it is.

Thank you. Pajus exhausts me. No officer is perfect. I think saving the world a few times trumps shined shoes, but that may just be me.

jelgate
January 5th, 2009, 06:26 AM
We've been over and over this before on other threads. I'm tired of it. And I don't know officers exactly like him but I do know that they help each other out. If his men thought he was a good officer, they'd overlook his crooked collars. As for decisions, it's your opinion that he's done nothing right. I think he's done the best he can in extraordinary circumstances and saved the world a number of times. Hindsight is 20/20 they say. I would say the outcome of disobeying orders is what will decide a punishment for a military officer. At least that what my friends in the military have said.

Falcon 304
January 5th, 2009, 06:45 AM
A lot has already been said, so I'll just post my personal highlights.

This episode is very easily in my top 5 favorites of all SGA episodes. Quite possibly in the top three. Top to bottom this episode was purely amazing. As someone who's been watching CSI since the beginning (I think...), this definately captured it's general tone. But the ability to incorperate the science fiction of the series and still keep that CSI feel is what amazes me most.

I think it's so great that an actor (Joe) can add something special of himself (love of Johnny Cash) to a character he plays and for that to be completely believeable and fit oh so very well.

I absolutely just LOVE how Cooper poked fun at Picardo, and him hanging his head with the Trek line was too funny. As said before, Hewlett's dilvery of the "No you're not" line during the gum conversation was just great. As always, the Stargate humor was there in this episode.

Heh, the quickly need incorperation of Joe's injury was also done pretty well.

Todd. What can I say about him? Seriously, best recurring character ever. Chris H. is so talented, and along with the music, that scene was a tad spooky.

Sparrow_hawk
January 5th, 2009, 08:19 AM
I guess all the comments here show that although we are all Stargate fans, many of us have very different taste in things and what appeals to some of us is considered dreck by others!

I loved Vegas! I liked the style, the direction, the music, pretty much everything about it. Yes, it was an AU episode and didn't have the same look and feel as the rest of the SGA episodes. But it is my understanding that it will tie in with the next episode, so IMO it isn't exactly a "filler". Just a radically different, fun, entertaining bit of television.

I really enjoy the Wraith as the antagonists in SGA and loved seeing the way they were portrayed in Vegas. Chris Heyerdahl was wonderful and the deranged prisoner. And I thought the other Wraith was done perfectly; I really enjoyed the scene with him putting on his makeup while listening to Marilyn Manson! I felt kind of sorry for him -- soldier stranded behind enemy line trying to signal his people so they could rescue him.

Goauld System Lord
January 5th, 2009, 08:31 AM
I can see that people will either love it or hate it, it sure was different!
But 180 degree change of opinion here,
This episode was probably the best SGA ep I have ever seen. From the music, to the mood, to the acting, it was mesmerizing, I couldn't tear my eyes away.
It was heartbreaking, brilliant and I sure as heck wish they would have spun this off as a series instead of 90210!
I honestly have no words to describe how much I liked it, and (since I watched it a week ago, bad me) how it left me emotional for days after viewing.
See, everbody's tastes are different!!! ;)

Couldn't have said it better! :sheppardanime23:

Pajus
January 5th, 2009, 08:43 AM
We've been over and over this before on other threads. I'm tired of it. And I don't know officers exactly like him but I do know that they help each other out. If his men thought he was a good officer, they'd overlook his crooked collars. As for decisions, it's your opinion that he's done nothing right. I think he's done the best he can in extraordinary circumstances and saved the world a number of times.

I never said he's done nothing right. You'd know that if you actually read what I'm writing here

4EverFree
January 5th, 2009, 09:23 AM
Well you missed out there. I would normally agree with you on that but you remember Rod from that one episode where Rodney's sister was first in. That was him on this one, its his universe. Keep reading...



Umm that's not the same Rod & Shepard from 'McKay & Mrs Miller'. Shepard was a member of team in that reality, not a detective (he was also in MENSA). It does make sense however, that their Rodney conducted the same energy experiment...

sgachick80
January 5th, 2009, 09:26 AM
WOW !!!! i loved this episode when i saw it last weekend it was brilliant and how it tieds up with the last episode of the show.!!!

jckfan55
January 5th, 2009, 09:37 AM
It was nice for Sheppard to get an episode. too bad they didn't write one for "our" Sheppard.

maxbo
January 5th, 2009, 10:06 AM
It really sucks that Ronon or Teyla weren't in the second to last episode of SGA and I'm disappointed that the writers didn't seem to even attempt to write them in.

While it makes sense that they might have not joined Atlantis because Sheppard wasn't there, that's only one possibility. There's too much missing information for this AU that it's more unbelievable, and reflects more about the writes than the story, that the episode didn't try to include them. That the writers decided on a story decision that keeps Teyla and Ronon absent, from a season in which their presence already feels lacking, makes me wonder why. It really feels like the writers didn't even try to give them screen time. That they just hit upon a reason why they wouldn't be there, shut down and stopped thinking any further.

I can't get past the writers' decision to exclude Teyla and Ronon from the second to last episode of the series either. And, this exclusion was especially galling considering how little they were used throughout the whole season. As main characters, they should have been in the episode that leads into the finale and the fact that they weren't doesn't give me much hope that they will have active roles in the movie.

At this point, I expect the writers to come up with some plot where "it wouldn't make sense" to see much of Teyla and Ronon. So, sadly typical of this writing crew. :(


I look forward to his poor excuse about the absence of Teyla and Ronon:P

If he displays the same dismissive, defensive attitude that Gero and Wright displayed then we know what to expect - non-answers and/or snark. I really love these guys. :rolleyes:


It was nice for Sheppard to get an episode. too bad they didn't write one for "our" Sheppard.

I agree. It was good to finally see a Sheppard episode this season, but it's too bad that it wasn't "our" Sheppard. I feel short-changed because what happened in Vegas truly will stay in Vegas because it was AU.

Linda06
January 5th, 2009, 11:36 AM
Ok I haven't seen it yet but something has been bugging me.....

Why couldn't they have had Teyla and Ronon in it if the wraith are in it....I mean if John never went to Atlantis he never would have met the Athosians, he never would have met Teyla, she never would have taken him to the cave, he never would have found the necklace, he never would have awoken the wraith, hence the wraith would have never learned about earth...Does that make sense...

So why again is the wraith there and Teyla isn't :confused:

Is there something I don't know :confused:

maxbo
January 5th, 2009, 12:44 PM
Ok I haven't seen it yet but something has been bugging me.....

Why couldn't they have had Teyla and Ronon in it if the wraith are in it....I mean if John never went to Atlantis he never would have met the Athosians, he never would have met Teyla, she never would have taken him to the cave, he never would have found the necklace, he never would have awoken the wraith, hence the wraith would have never learned about earth...Does that make sense...

So why again is the wraith there and Teyla isn't :confused:

Is there something I don't know :confused:

Great point!

SG1Commander
January 5th, 2009, 01:02 PM
Ok I haven't seen it yet but something has been bugging me.....

Why couldn't they have had Teyla and Ronon in it if the wraith are in it....I mean if John never went to Atlantis he never would have met the Athosians, he never would have met Teyla, she never would have taken him to the cave, he never would have found the necklace, he never would have awoken the wraith, hence the wraith would have never learned about earth...Does that make sense...

So why again is the wraith there and Teyla isn't :confused:

Is there something I don't know :confused:

Here's how i figure it. Everything that happened in our universe happened in the Vegas Universe. With the exception of the cave incident. the Wraith Still came to Athos, captured Expedition members, and a S&R team led by someone else (Ford?) rescued them and woke the wraith from their hibernation.
At least that's how I think it might've went.

GhostPoet
January 5th, 2009, 01:13 PM
This is easily one of my favorite Stargate episodes...EVER. Loved it. It's going to make me miss Atlantis even more now. =(

Linda06
January 5th, 2009, 01:19 PM
Here's how i figure it. Everything that happened in our universe happened in the Vegas Universe. With the exception of the cave incident. the Wraith Still came to Athos, captured Expedition members, and a S&R team led by someone else (Ford?) rescued them and woke the wraith from their hibernation.
At least that's how I think it might've went.

It was the Atlantians going to Athos and John being led to the cave by Teyla hence finding the neckalace and waking up the wraith in the process that caused the wraith to come to Athos in the first place...He had the ATA gene which activated it...

The wraith had no reason to go to Athos at that time till the signal got activated!

I just don't see a valid reason why Ronon and especially Teyla were not in the second to last ep :( I would have thought they would have at least wanted the whole team in the penultimate ep!

Pandora's_Box
January 5th, 2009, 01:23 PM
It was the Atlantians going to Athos and John being led to the cave by Teyla hence finding the neckalace and waking up the wraith in the process that caused the wraith to come to Athos in the first place...He had the ATA gene which activated it...

The wraith had no reason to go to Athos at that time till the signal got activated!

I just don't see a valid reason why Ronon and especially Teyla were not in the second to last ep :( I would have thought they would have at least wanted the whole team in the penultimate ep!

But all that reasoning assumes that these two universes are super-duper extremely similar, and that's very unlikely.

Teyla and Ronon could have ended up leading very different lives in this universe. Maybe Teyla never lost that necklace. Maybe the Wraith awakened earlier in the universe because they went into hibernation earlier for whatever reason.

Maybe, had Sheppard ever gone to Atlantis, Ronon would have died as a Runner and Sheppard never would have met him anyway.

Maybe Teyla's parent's never died so early and she wouldn't have been leader of her people and never had the occasion to get so close to Sheppard had she met him.

Believe me, I hate this episode probably more than most people and a lot of that has to do with the lack of Teyla and Ronon, but this scenario just doesn't seem plausible to me. Sorry.

Linda06
January 5th, 2009, 01:30 PM
But all that reasoning assumes that these two universes are super-duper extremely similar, and that's very unlikely.

Teyla and Ronon could have ended up leading very different lives in this universe. Maybe Teyla never lost that necklace. Maybe the Wraith awakened earlier in the universe because they went into hibernation earlier for whatever reason.

Maybe, had Sheppard ever gone to Atlantis, Ronon would have died as a Runner and Sheppard never would have met him anyway.

Maybe Teyla's parent's never died so early and she wouldn't have been leader of her people and never had the occasion to get so close to Sheppard had she met him.

Believe me, I hate this episode probably more than most people and a lot of that has to do with the lack of Teyla and Ronon, but this scenario just doesn't seem plausible to me. Sorry.

You forgot another possible reason ;) Maybe they just didn't want Teyla and Ronon in the ep so they dumped them to the side...Wouldn't be the first time :(

jelgate
January 5th, 2009, 01:32 PM
You forgot another possible reason ;) Maybe they just didn't want Teyla and Ronon in the ep so they dumped them to the side...Wouldn't be the first time :(

or it was too hard in creative sense to write them in:P

Linda06
January 5th, 2009, 01:34 PM
or it was too hard in creative sense to write them in:P

Isn't that the same thing :p

maxbo
January 5th, 2009, 01:35 PM
You forgot another possible reason ;) Maybe they just didn't want Teyla and Ronon in the ep so they dumped them to the side...Wouldn't be the first time :(

I was going to say this, but you beat me to it.


or it was too hard in creative sense to write them in:P

Bingo!

jelgate
January 5th, 2009, 01:35 PM
Isn't that the same thing :pPretty much:P

Linda06
January 5th, 2009, 01:41 PM
I was going to say this, but you beat me to it.



Bingo!

Well you know, great minds and all that ;)

JasonG
January 5th, 2009, 01:55 PM
But all that reasoning assumes that these two universes are super-duper extremely similar, and that's very unlikely.

Teyla and Ronon could have ended up leading very different lives in this universe. Maybe Teyla never lost that necklace. Maybe the Wraith awakened earlier in the universe because they went into hibernation earlier for whatever reason.

Maybe, had Sheppard ever gone to Atlantis, Ronon would have died as a Runner and Sheppard never would have met him anyway.

Maybe Teyla's parent's never died so early and she wouldn't have been leader of her people and never had the occasion to get so close to Sheppard had she met him.

Believe me, I hate this episode probably more than most people and a lot of that has to do with the lack of Teyla and Ronon, but this scenario just doesn't seem plausible to me. Sorry.

Really? Because that explanation seems entirely plausible to me. In some capacity Sheppard made an impact on the Pegasus galaxy even if at the basest it was in befriending Teyla and offering Ronon a home. The fact that viewers miss the characters of Ronon and Teyla so much in this ep shows what a loss to the Atlantis mission Sheppard may have been in that he didn't recruit these amazing people.

It's easy for me to believe that Sheppard is a mess without the SGC and his friends, without the people he grew to love and admire, so it's no less a stretch for me to believe that the fate of Ronon and Teyla hinged in some capacity upon Sheppard joining as well.

I'm sorry all the characters didn't make it into Vegas but this didn't make me hate or dislike the episode. This was an episode about Sheppard, AU Sheppard yes, but still a Sheppard episode. And honestly, he was the only character this season who didn't have one.

Showfan
January 5th, 2009, 02:20 PM
Really? Because that explanation seems entirely plausible to me. In some capacity Sheppard made an impact on the Pegasus galaxy even if at the basest it was in befriending Teyla and offering Ronon a home. The fact that viewers miss the characters of Ronon and Teyla so much in this ep shows what a loss to the Atlantis mission Sheppard may have been in that he didn't recruit these amazing people.

It's easy for me to believe that Sheppard is a mess without the SGC and his friends, without the people he grew to love and admire, so it's no less a stretch for me to believe that the fate of Ronon and Teyla hinged in some capacity upon Sheppard joining as well.

I'm sorry all the characters didn't make it into Vegas but this didn't make me hate or dislike the episode. This was an episode about Sheppard, AU Sheppard yes, but still a Sheppard episode. And honestly, he was the only character this season who didn't have one.


You make a lot of sense. If Sheppard joining the Atlantis expedition gave us Teyla and Ronon, well then, that's a hell of a lot. I didn't miss either character in this episode because frankly I've adapted to not seeing them very much this season.

I enjoyed Vegas. I found it unique, emotional, wacky and packing a punch at the end that I didn't expect. Plus it was great seeing Sheppard, even if it wasn't our Sheppard, taking front and center in an episode this season.


:)

coloneldowd
January 5th, 2009, 02:26 PM
it's 9:47 eastern time... still 10 minutes left... but Vegas is a very large reason why i am GLAD that Atlantis has been cancelled...

boring, dull, no sense that its a "Stargate" episode, let alone a Stargate show... and since its not "our" reality i find no interest in how it turns out...

Seriously? This episode was one of the most original episodes in a long time. Its was an interesting storyline running in an alternate universe, and a cool and unique set-up for how the wraith get the location of Earth. I am very excited for the final episode of the series, and cannot wait for the 2 hour movie.

[mod snip]

Linda06
January 5th, 2009, 02:39 PM
hmmm....Well that was the most boring 42 minutes of my life :S

I had to check to see if it was stargate I was watching....It was slow and they should leave the CSI camerawork to CSI....

I still stand by what I said before about why the wraith are there and Teyla is not....We never did get an explanation as to why they were there, how do they know about earth if John didn't go to the PG and wake them up...

I think this was another of a number of mistakes the writers have given us this season...

The one good point in this ep however (and the folks that know me will probably be shocked ;)) is Rodney....Yes he looked and acted quite arrogant at times but he actually spoke in a normal voice...There was no shouting or whining :D Can we keep this Rodney please :D

Also the music was rather irritating at times..

I was that bored with large parts of it I was actually looking round my room for something to do :S That does not bode well :S So this was supposed to be John's token ep, right? Well all I can say is for the supposed lead of the show JF deserved so much better than this..

*note to self* Listen to Jel the next time he tells me I won't enjoy an ep :)

So overall a very poor episode for the penultimate ep.....I'm a little nervous about how the final eps going to turn out now :S

jelgate
January 5th, 2009, 02:44 PM
hmmm....Well that was the most boring 42 minutes of my life :SI had to check to see if it was stargate I was watching....It was slow and they should leave the CSI camerawork to CSI....I still stand by what I said before about why the wraith are there and Teyla is not....We never did get an explanation as to why they were there, how do they know about earth if John didn't go to the PG and wake them up...I think this was another of a number of mistakes the writers have given us this season...The one good point in this ep however (and the folks that know me will probably be shocked ;)) is Rodney....Yes he looked and acted quite arrogant at times but he actually spoke in a normal voice...There was no shouting or whining :D Can we keep this Rodney please :DAlso the music was rather irritating at times..I was that bored with large parts of it I was actually looking round my room for something to do :S That does not bode well :S So this was supposed to be John's token ep, right? Well all I can say is for the supposed lead of the show JF deserved so much better than this..*note to self* Listen to Jel the next time he tells me I won't enjoy an ep :)So overall a very poor episode for the penultimate ep.....I'm a little nervous about how the final eps going to turn out now :SYou should always listen to jel for he is always right and I am surprised about you McKay comment. Did you need a barf bag at the CSI ripoffs too:P

Linda06
January 5th, 2009, 02:53 PM
You should always listen to jel for he is always right and I am surprised about you McKay comment. Did you need a barf bag at the CSI ripoffs too:P

I know...I'm as surprised as you about McKay :S

A barf bag...I need a barf bath :p

fumblesmcstupid
January 5th, 2009, 03:02 PM
OMG you are right about the Wraith not knowing about earth! oops! Or they'd say Rodney awakened the wraith!

I love our Rodney (minus the McGero factor <Mod snip>)...I didn't like Vegas McKay!

TameFarrar
January 5th, 2009, 04:18 PM
I know...I'm as surprised as you about McKay :S

A barf bag...I need a barf bath :p

WOW...what made it this bad for you? Is because you are just not a fan of CSI in any way? Or do you not like how McKay was written in this more calm manner? Did he seem too far out of character for you to suspend disbelief?

jelgate
January 5th, 2009, 04:22 PM
WOW...what made it this bad for you? Is because you are just not a fan of CSI in any way? Or do you not like how McKay was written in this more calm manner? Did he seem too far out of character for you to suspend disbelief?Because I know Linda so well (Scary isn't it:S) it was the lack of Teyla and Ronon and CSI ripoffs. Or it may be thats what she told me in another thread:P

Galactic Hitchhiker
January 5th, 2009, 04:26 PM
it indeed was CSI Atlantis.. but was it just me or was the field medic whom Shep tried to save our beloved scottish doctor? after all, shep did have poster of him on the wall, and that was the only thing he took with him from the office.. hmmmm....:p

TameFarrar
January 5th, 2009, 04:26 PM
Because I know Linda so well (Scary isn't it:S) it was the lack of Teyla and Ronon and CSI ripoffs. Or it may be thats what she told me in another thread:P

ahhh I didn't get that from your post and her post put together :S.... I do think many folks were bummed from the lack of Teyla and Ronon in this episode

jelgate
January 5th, 2009, 04:31 PM
ahhh I didn't get that from your post and her post put together :S.... I do think many folks were bummed from the lack of Teyla and Ronon in this episode

I think a lot of it has to do with it being the end of the season. I can tolerate an episode of two of them being absent. But at this point in the season Teyla and Ronon's absence has happened too much

Briangate78
January 5th, 2009, 04:35 PM
I think a lot of it has to do with it being the end of the season. I can tolerate an episode of two of them being absent. But at this point in the season Teyla and Ronon's absence has happened too much

The common posts I have seen on the entire net and not just this forum was This episode was Excellent one of the best, but the 2nd to last ep? I think when they tie it into the finale it will make more sense.

You know what is going to be the number one post for friday's discussion? That it should of been a 2-parter, well duh. :p

Hermiiod
January 5th, 2009, 04:39 PM
The common posts I have seen on the entire net and not just this forum was This episode was Excellent one of the best, but the 2nd to last ep? I think when they tie it into the finale it will make more sense.
To quote Robert Cooper, "When we first came up with the concept, we didn’t know it was going to be the second to last episode [laughs]. The fact that Atlantis was not picked up was unfortunate on many levels. This was not intended to be the second to last episode of Atlantis."

Lythisrose
January 5th, 2009, 04:39 PM
I think a lot of it has to do with it being the end of the season. I can tolerate an episode of two of them being absent. But at this point in the season Teyla and Ronon's absence has happened too much

I have to say that, even though my biggest complaint this season has been the lack of Team time, (especially since they have been favoring a certain unnamed pairing), I was so incredibly ecstatic that Sheppard (the supposed lead for heaven's sake) finally got an episode focused on him for a change, that I didn't even give their absence a second thought while watching. :eek: *am ashamed*
It would have been nice to see them, and perhaps this ep would have been better placed closer to the middle of the season, but I just cannot bring myself to complain because of how much I loved Sheppard (and McKay, Woolsey, the Wraith and Zelenka) in this episode.
The music, the mood, the CSI stuff were just added bonuses. It was an emotional ride for me and I was stunned about how much impact it has had on me since. I cannot stop thinking about it, days and days after seeing it, it was that gorgeous of an ep!
Still, tastes certainly do vary! :)

Briangate78
January 5th, 2009, 04:41 PM
To quote Robert Cooper, "When we first came up with the concept, we didn’t know it was going to be the second to last episode [laughs]. The fact that Atlantis was not picked up was unfortunate on many levels. This was not intended to be the second to last episode of Atlantis."

Thank YOU!!!!! We need to put that in our sigs!!! GREEN for you my friend. BTW, awesome sig. Remind me not to play poker with that dude. :p

Hermiiod
January 5th, 2009, 04:44 PM
Thank YOU!!!!! We need to put that in our sigs!!! GREEN for you my friend. BTW, awesome sig. Remind me not to play poker with that dude. :p
Actually you can thank "morjana" for posting the article where I found that quote http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=62721. And thanks! I just made the signature this afternoon. I can't wait for my 2,000 post mark so I can make the last pic my avatar. ;)

Briangate78
January 5th, 2009, 04:47 PM
Actually you can thank "morjana" for posting the article where I found that quote http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=62721. And thanks! I just made the signature this afternoon. I can't wait for my 2,000 post mark so I can make the last pic my avatar. ;)

I have been trying to prove a point that the producers thought SGA was going to be picked up. BW just posted with all the factors involved SGA had to end or there would be no movies, or no SGU. After hearing they are getting RDA for a lead role in the next movie, no wonder they needed to clear up that budget. :p

Sparrow_hawk
January 5th, 2009, 04:50 PM
it indeed was CSI Atlantis.. but was it just me or was the field medic whom Shep tried to save our beloved scottish doctor? after all, shep did have poster of him on the wall, and that was the only thing he took with him from the office.. hmmmm....:p
The poster was of Johnny Cash. The same guy that was singing "Solitary Man" while Sheppard was driving through the desert and in the final scene. And the field medic was referred to as "she" in the transcript, so I don't think it could have been Beckett.

Sparrow_hawk
January 5th, 2009, 04:51 PM
Actually you can thank "morjana" for posting the article where I found that quote http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=62721. And thanks! I just made the signature this afternoon. I can't wait for my 2,000 post mark so I can make the last pic my avatar. ;)
Hermiiod, I love your sig! Good luck getting to 2000 soon. That last image would make a very nice avatar!

Hermiiod
January 5th, 2009, 04:53 PM
I have been trying to prove a point that the producers thought SGA was going to be picked up. BW just posted with all the factors involved SGA had to end or there would be no movies, or no SGU. After hearing they are getting RDA for a lead role in the next movie, no wonder they needed to clear up that budget. :p
Indeed. I was under the impression all along that the producers have/had plans to continue on the journey of Atlantis.

Briangate78
January 5th, 2009, 04:54 PM
Indeed. I was under the impression all along that the producers have/had plans to continue on the journey of Atlantis.

Well, I heard the finale is really good, just rushed a little. But how much can you do in 42 to 43 min? :p

Hermiiod
January 5th, 2009, 04:57 PM
Hermiiod, I love your sig! Good luck getting to 2000 soon. That last image would make a very nice avatar!
Thank you Sparrow Hawk. Very kind indeed. I can't imagine getting to 2,000 since Atlantis is ending ;)


Well, I heard the finale is really good, just rushed a little. But how much can you do in 42 to 43 min? :p
I just hope they have someone say a thank you when the episode is done. Richard Dean Anderson said something such as; "On Behalf of everyone here at Macgyver, we thank our viewers for 7 great seasons." when Macgyver ended.
That would be awesome.

Galactic Hitchhiker
January 5th, 2009, 04:59 PM
And the field medic was referred to as "she" in the transcript, so I don't think it could have been Beckett.

But it sounded like McKay was speaking of "him" instead of "her". I did rewatch that scene, and it was most certainly him..

Sparrow_hawk
January 5th, 2009, 05:04 PM
But it sounded like McKay was speaking of "him" instead of "her". I did rewatch that scene, and it was most certainly him..
That would be a good question to ask Robert Cooper on Joe Mallozzi's blog when he comes to visit! JM said on January 4th:
Allow me to start off today’s entry with some exciting news - before, of course, seguing right back into the tedious offerings that typify this blog. Executive Producer/Writer/Co-Creator Robert Cooper has agreed to come by an field your questions about his piece de resistance, his chef d’oeuvre, his hors d’oeuvre and Atlantis swansong: Vegas. Yep, gather up all your queries regarding alternate universe theory and nippleless wraith and start posting because, very soon, ALL WILL BE REVEALED!http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/ You might want to post the question there.

DragonLadyK
January 5th, 2009, 05:25 PM
I actually wish that had been the series finale instead of EATG: tight writing, awesome camera effects, wicked soundtrack, Hero!John without falling back on the old suicide-mission rag, and subtly pointing out what we all know -- without the Team, everyone is miserable. Everyone in that AU was darker and nastier than their normal counterparts. There wasn't that sense of family, especially between Radek and Rodney. I missed Ronon and Teyla, but their absence sort of makes me think that without John's ideals Atlantis wouldn't have attracted the Athosians or Ronon, which again detracts from the team/family vibe of the expedition. The whole Wraith-makeup scene was awesome, CH did an awesome job as Todd as always, and I love that they finally came back to the idea that Wraith can make people see things.

Vegas was SGA at its best (it was CSI back when it was good, too), and it would have been a great high note to end on.

Did I mention I loved the sound track?

DragonLady

SG1Commander
January 5th, 2009, 05:31 PM
I actually wish that had been the series finale instead of EATG: tight writing, awesome camera effects, wicked soundtrack, Hero!John without falling back on the old suicide-mission rag, and subtly pointing out what we all know -- without the Team, everyone is miserable. Everyone in that AU was darker and nastier than their normal counterparts. There wasn't that sense of family, especially between Radek and Rodney. I missed Ronon and Teyla, but their absence sort of makes me think that without John's ideals Atlantis wouldn't have attracted the Athosians or Ronon, which again detracts from the team/family vibe of the expedition. The whole Wraith-makeup scene was awesome, CH did an awesome job as Todd as always, and I love that they finally came back to the idea that Wraith can make people see things.

Vegas was SGA at its best (it was CSI back when it was good, too), and it would have been a great high note to end on.

Did I mention I loved the sound track?

DragonLady

Not sure i'd agree with that being the series finale. Don't get me wrong, it was a good episode, but i'd like the series finale to take place in our reality.
I also loved the soundtrack. i said this earlier in this thread, but they should definitely make soundtracks for each season.

prion
January 5th, 2009, 05:35 PM
But it sounded like McKay was speaking of "him" instead of "her". I did rewatch that scene, and it was most certainly him..

I heard "her".

Oh, is this going to be a "he said/she said" type of things?? ;)

DragonLadyK
January 5th, 2009, 05:36 PM
Not sure i'd agree with that being the series finale. Don't get me wrong, it was a good episode, but i'd like the series finale to take place in our reality.

I'm not allowed to talk about why I feel this way here, but suffice it to say I was far more impressed with this than EATG in every possible way. If I had to pick which of the two episodes would be my last episode of SGA ever, I would pick this one, hands down.

DragonLady

Pandora's_Box
January 5th, 2009, 05:39 PM
Hero!John without falling back on the old suicide-mission rag,

:: blinks ::

'Cause going after a wraith with a handgun is not suicidal?



and subtly pointing out what we all know -- without the Team, everyone is miserable.

See, we don't know that. At least not for certain. Any number of things could have made things turn out the way they did in this universe and the majority of them would have had nothing to do with the team or John Sheppard.



Everyone in that AU was darker and nastier than their normal counterparts. There wasn't that sense of family, especially between Radek and Rodney. I missed Ronon and Teyla, but their absence sort of makes me think that without John's ideals Atlantis wouldn't have attracted the Athosians or Ronon, which again detracts from the team/family vibe of the expedition.

Or maybe the Athosians don't exist in this AU. Or Ronon died early on during his time as a Runner so by the time anyone made it to Pegasus and could have maybe met him, he was already dead.

Thing is, while this notion that all goodness, happiness, and rightness in the universe is dependent on John Sheppard being the John Sheppard we know and supposedly love is very romantic, it is also quite simplistic and negates to take into account the near infinite number of possibilities in a reality that could have contributed to the situation being what it was. And that the vast majority of them have nothing to do with John Sheppard.

No single person is that important, I'm sorry to say.



Vegas was SGA at its best (it was CSI back when it was good, too), and it would have been a great high note to end on.


Sheppard dying? As the last note of SGA?

That would have been...interesting.

Me thinks the fans would be burning effigies of TPTB were that the case. Possibly even TPTB themselves if they could get their hands on them.

Corona
January 5th, 2009, 05:41 PM
Some earlier posts mentioned the car Shep was driving. It looks like a 79 Camaro worth about five hundred bucks. At least the condition of his anyway.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS255US256&q=camaro+1979

Compare that to the MGM pix at http://stargate.mgm.com/stills.php?series_id=2&season=5&episode=19#anch19

I still think it has a Miami Vice look to this episode. CSI took it from there.

Credit where credit is due. Vice had cooler cars though.

prion
January 5th, 2009, 06:04 PM
Some earlier posts mentioned the car Shep was driving. It looks like a 79 Camaro worth about five hundred bucks. At least the condition of his anyway.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS255US256&q=camaro+1979

Compare that to the MGM pix at http://stargate.mgm.com/stills.php?series_id=2&season=5&episode=19#anch19

I still think it has a Miami Vice look to this episode. CSI took it from there.

Credit where credit is due. Vice had cooler cars though.

well, until the arms dealer turned a SAM on Crockett's lovely black Ferrari (or wait, what was it? well, it was toast after SAM hit it).

But, FYI, a car collector bought up a couple of the Camaros used in this episode :)

Corona
January 5th, 2009, 06:19 PM
I wonder how much was paid for the cars.

fumblesmcstupid
January 5th, 2009, 06:54 PM
not as much as they spent on music!

Corona
January 5th, 2009, 07:13 PM
Willie Nelson did a Miami Vice and SG-A has Johnny Cash.

It's all good!

Jill_Ion
January 5th, 2009, 07:57 PM
SGA - MGM Stargate: 11 NEW stills from Vegas:

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=9514582&postcount=993

Thanks for the pics, morjana!

This was truly a fun, exciting ep! I really loved it, and my hub declared it "very cool." :)

Alt!Shep was tragic, broken, and knew it. He heard from Alt!Rodney that another version of him did a lot more with his life, and had to face (yet again) how he didn't live up to his full potential. Ahhhh....but the end proved the tough, good core every Sheppard (we've met) has. Someone mentioned Sheppard looking rather longingly at the Chair, and I agree. He saw that and the darts and all of the info as amazing and really opened his eyes to the vastness of the universe, while his personal world was so tiny and troubled.

I've said since Miller's Crossing that Joe F. needs to star in a detective show (with Jason M. if I had my way!). That sort of role just fits him to a sexy, sexy, sexy T. JF's acting was top notch in this ep.

Loved seen Robert P., David H. and David N. in this ep as similar, but different roles. DH looked damn good in that suit, and DN was very handsome, all cleaned up and w/o glasses. Loved the Star Trek:The Experience reference. I went to it years ago and really had a nice time.

The music so totally rocked, and the editing and VFX, while OTT occasionally, brought such a freshness and energy to the show. I really enjoyed it all. I've only seen a couple of CSI:Miami eps (the ones with JF, BB, and MS), but I caught the visual homages to that show (and it's sister shows). Loved the quick cameos by BW and RCC. LOL!

Neil Jackson was great as George the Wraith. A sexy, dangerous, lone wolf versus the lone wolf of Sheppard. I think from the flashbacks that George was severely burned by the dart crash, so it probably took him a few weeks to recover. Loved his hard rockin' badass style.

Crazy!Todd was so powerful. CH is such a great actor and brings such gravitas to every performance. He practically steals every scene he's in. I've always enjoyed seeing Todd interact with Shep, and even though these were AU versions, there still was a weird intergalactic connection between those two!

Obviously, as a second-to-last ep ever ep, Vegas was strange, but since I know it was planned to be a brief diversion from a season or two more of eps, I think it totally worked.

WooHoo! Vegas! Yeah!

justabloke
January 5th, 2009, 10:08 PM
There, I said it, I came out, I feel so liberated :)

Mind you I was reasonably sure I was watching an ep directed by Quentin Tarantino for 90% of it, until Rodney started being just a little bit Rodney.

It seemed to me more gritty but still full of hope, of people doing good things for the sake of doing good things. As opposed to BSG which is gritty and full of people doing f<mod snip>-up-stuff for the sake of doing <mod snip>-up-stuff.

At the end of the day it still embraced the reasons why I watch SciFi, to be uplifted by possibilities, both technological and humanist...

The Prophet
January 6th, 2009, 04:31 AM
Vegas was a nice breather from the usual Atlantis episodes, which had become increasingly similar, and return to basic Wraith vs Human opposition that I liked.

Vegas is probably my favourite episode of Atlantis. Which is suprising, seeing as it was nothing like Atlantis at all. Heck, Atlantis wasn't even in this episode! xD

I can see why fans would dislike it, mainly not having anything much to do with established plot nor characters; but it really displayed Flanigan and Hewlett's acting potential, in varying already established roles. Also, it really diplays TPTB's creativity, which I'm glad for. :D

Sparrow_hawk
January 6th, 2009, 05:17 AM
Ok I haven't seen it yet but something has been bugging me.....

Why couldn't they have had Teyla and Ronon in it if the wraith are in it....I mean if John never went to Atlantis he never would have met the Athosians, he never would have met Teyla, she never would have taken him to the cave, he never would have found the necklace, he never would have awoken the wraith, hence the wraith would have never learned about earth...Does that make sense...

So why again is the wraith there and Teyla isn't :confused:

Is there something I don't know :confused:
That is a good point about Teyla being integral in the discovery of and awakening of the Wraith. Plot wise - maybe Teyla was killed in the Wraith attack or chose not to go with the crew of Atlantis in that reality. Ronon becoming part of the team was always a bit of a stretch in my mind, so I can believe that he never made it to Atlantis in another reality.

But on a more practical level - maybe Jason Momoa and Rachel Lutrell didn't want to fly all the way to Las Vegas just to do bit parts. Just a thought.

Hermiiod
January 6th, 2009, 05:33 AM
If you're arguing the series of incidences that led to the awakening of the Wraith and those incidences that got the Atlantis Expedition thus far-- Please remember:
It was only by the sway of a knife that the Atlantis expedition made it in one piece. Remember when they first arrived on Atlantis and a lot of them died including Rodney and Sheppard-- and Wier only made it out (but just barely) due to a time machined Puddle Jumper? Well according to that episode, it was just a stroke of luck and some miracles that Wier made it out alive and was able to spend the next 10,000 years preparing Atlantis to be awoken. I highly doubt that those incidences would happen in any other reality. . . . (Ok, maybe it might happen in a small quantum of episodes.)

CazzBlade
January 6th, 2009, 05:46 AM
But on a more practical level - maybe Jason Momoa and Rachel Lutrell didn't want to fly all the way to Las Vegas just to do bit parts. Just a thought.

Jason said that he was really excited to go to Las Vegas... and then found out he wasn't.

prion
January 6th, 2009, 06:18 AM
I wonder how much was paid for the cars.

hard to tell, but they had two camaros. one collector bought them both - the bullet-ridden one and the non bullet-ridden one.

prion
January 6th, 2009, 06:42 AM
But on a more practical level - maybe Jason Momoa and Rachel Lutrell didn't want to fly all the way to Las Vegas just to do bit parts. Just a thought.

Heh, a free trip to Vegas? No one turns that down! ;) The script was just done as it was, without TEyla and Ronon, and I think we can all talk about this for a very long time, as every alternate reality will have a different version of the characters. I mean, for all we know Ford was never in the military, or maybe by some quirk Teyla wasn't female but was a man, etc.

If you read RCC's short interview on it, it explains more of the complexities and time constraints of filming, at the MGM site:

http://stargate.mgm.com/news_detail.php?id=125

bluealien
January 6th, 2009, 07:08 AM
WOW...what made it this bad for you? Is because you are just not a fan of CSI in any way? Or do you not like how McKay was written in this more calm manner? Did he seem too far out of character for you to suspend disbelief?

I don't really like any version of McKay these days.. used to like the character but now he's just too ott for my liking. Vegas McKay was calmer but also more, arrogant, smug, selfish, self absorbed and condensending. But yet he's loved by everyone in every universe whilst Sheppard who puts his life on the line constantly gets no thanks. In fact no one seems to bat an eye now at his self sacrificing tendancies.

TameFarrar
January 6th, 2009, 07:21 AM
I don't really like any version of McKay these days.. used to like the character but now he's just too ott for my liking. Vegas McKay was calmer but also more, arrogant, smug, selfish, self absorbed and condensending. But yet he's loved by everyone in every universe whilst Sheppard who puts his life on the line constantly gets no thanks. In fact no one seems to bat an eye now at his self sacrificing tendancies.

I think I would have to agree with you for the most part. Maybe for different reasons but for the same overall ideal. I too am tired of things being *saved by Rodney McKay* for the most part when it is supposed to be an ensemble cast and the stories seem to always gravitate to how will Rodney McKay fix it in the end. So for me this at least was a really nice change of the same ole same ole in so many ways :) It was really nice to have it be very clear in not only the dialogue that John saved the day but to see it visually as well in such a dramatic fashion.

bluealien
January 6th, 2009, 07:37 AM
To quote Robert Cooper, "When we first came up with the concept, we didn’t know it was going to be the second to last episode [laughs]. The fact that Atlantis was not picked up was unfortunate on many levels. This was not intended to be the second to last episode of Atlantis."

Maybe when they originally came up with the concept they didnt know but they had plenty of time to make changes. I'm just so sick of hearing how they didnt know about the cancellation and didnt have time to do anything. I think they fully expected the cancellation and since MGM and Scifi were happy to have a 6th season iit makes you wonder who actually did decide on the cancellation. They wanted their new show to start and that meant the end of SGA and I believe they knew about the cancellation long before the announcement. Funny how MG didnt have a problem writing an ep giving Rodney his happy ever after (would he have done that if he didnt know of the cancellation)..

But yet the so called leading guy of the show only gets an episode focused on him at the very end of the season... this is bad even if the show wasnt ending. Why not write in Teyla and Ronon in the first place. We had enough McKay focused eps anyway. They are the writers and can make anything possible if they want to, they just decided to go with a version where there was no Teyla or Ronon, god forbid they could leave Rodney out. I would have preferred Sheppard meeting up with Ronon or Teyla in the au universe rather than the usual McKay/Sheppard predictable encounter.

And what was with the one liners Sheppard gets. Don't the writers think he can handle more than a few lines. He seems to get less and less to say these days. Just as well JF can portray so much more with body language and facial expressions because he really doesn't get much else to work with..

Hermiiod
January 6th, 2009, 07:52 AM
And what was with the one liners Sheppard gets. Don't the writers think he can handle more than a few lines. He seems to get less and less to say these days. Just as well JF can portray so much more with body language and facial expressions because he really doesn't get much else to work with..
He's sounding more and more like Ronan each episode. ;)

But yeah, I see where you're coming from. I too, am slightly considering that it could be an excuse that they didn't know the show was canceling.

Regardless this episode would have been cool to have as one of the first few of Season 5. That would have:
1: Given the wraith an entire season to be procuring troops, hive ships, and organizing for a frontal assault on Earth (which I am just assuming will happen, since in Vegas, the Wraith gave up the location of Earth to the Wraith in our Universe).
2: An excuse of why we have not seen much of the Wraith in season 5.
3: A really cool story line that would have stretched out from the first few episodes of S5 to the very last episode, but without the plot developing episodes in between.
4: It might even catch fans off guard if they ever forgot about what happened in "Vegas".

Briangate78
January 6th, 2009, 07:57 AM
I just watched this episode yet again. The scene showing Sheppard at the end with the overhead camera and turning was just brilliant. It really is a shame this show is ending. I will miss these characters.

Hermiiod
January 6th, 2009, 08:01 AM
I just watched this episode yet again. The scene showing Sheppard at the end with the overhead camera and turning was just brilliant. It really is a shame this show is ending. I will miss these characters.
Just out of curiosity, how are you watching it -- Did you buy it from somewhere?
I bought it from itunes for lack of anything better the day it came out. :mckay:

Linda06
January 6th, 2009, 08:52 AM
WOW...what made it this bad for you? Is because you are just not a fan of CSI in any way? Or do you not like how McKay was written in this more calm manner? Did he seem too far out of character for you to suspend disbelief?

hmmm well a number of reasons actually....No Teyla, I love CSI but this was just awful so they should leave this kinda stuff to the proper people, it moved way too slow, John was kinda weird :S I know it's AU but *shudder* I didn't like this John one little bit, and um it does not bode well for an ep if i'm looking round my room for half of it instead of watching the screen :o I think I actually put my head back and looked up at the ceiling and groaned a few times during it :o

It's funny, I actually liked Rodney in this ep, Sure he was arrogant and a little obnoxious but he spoke in a normal voice instead of shouting and he didn't whine once so that's a major plus mark for him :D I even didn't mind Jennifer in this ep (folks who know me know I usually can't stand her) I feel that this confident Jennifer should have been the one they developed throughout S5, but I guess it's too little too late....

So contrary to popular belief by some Jennifer is NOT the reason I didn't like it!


Because I know Linda so well (Scary isn't it:S) it was the lack of Teyla and Ronon and CSI ripoffs. Or it may be thats what she told me in another thread:P

:rolleyes: Well you did tell me I wouldn#t like it and you were right ;)

Linda06
January 6th, 2009, 08:59 AM
Oh andanother thing I didn't like, the music...Some of it was ok but some was just really irritating...And it didn't even feel like stargate...Like I said in an earlier post, I had to check to see if I was indeed watching stargate...

Oh and is it wrong to think that wraith dude was kinda hot :o

Nath
January 6th, 2009, 09:04 AM
Well... to be honest, I was a little confused when I watched this episode. And even now, I don't know what to think of it.

The warm color of the shooting and the cute John Sheppard were ok. But It felt a little too much of a CSI episode and I don't like CSI at all. It was kind of weird.

The plot was disturbing. We understand why the signal will affect our reality in the next episode, and I didn't see the twist coming. It was nice. But again, I'm a little confused.

I hoped (until the end) that we would have a glimpse of Teyla and Ronon appearance. And although I understand why they could not be in this reality, I was frustrated. I really missed them.

They really have to end this series well. Pleeeeease !

Jill_Ion
January 6th, 2009, 09:19 AM
Nath, can you watch it again? Sometimes a second viewing will fill in the confusing parts.

I'm going to watch it again during lunch today. I want to catch some of the little moments that I missed the first time.

I was thinking last night (and early this morning) how much I liked the ending, with Shep lying on his back, looking up at the sky. (The dying part sucks, but that's the way the Shep crumbles in this AU.)

Because he had just found out that the universe was full of real, genuine alien creatures and they were visiting/attacking Earth and there were alternate versions of himself, that has to be rather mindblowing. Sure, he was more concerned with his current situations (bullet wound and such), but I think he knew he was dying and wanted to look up at the sky and ponder on the huge vasty vastness of the universe. Or he was thinking about his old pet dog. Who knows? It just seemed "right" for him to lie there, looking at the sky.

Jewels
January 6th, 2009, 09:30 AM
Well I liked it!! Marilyn Manson's Beautiful People playing while a Wraith does his make-up? Perfect! One of my fave songs btw. The shows have always mentioned the alternate universe possibilities so why not deal with one of them exclusively in an episode? Loved it! I was also happy to see Keller as the no nonsense kind of character she was at the start instead of the whiny girly she's been turned into lately.

One question we were tossing around at home. In Vegas's reality, Sheppard went in against orders to save a medic he was involved with, "you knew 'er well" Rodney said. Does this mean that our Sheppard was possibly involved with the one he went in to rescue in "our reality" of the show? Capt. Holland according to Phantoms. Sorry if this was mentioned earlier, I didn't realize how many pages there were til I hit reply.

Jill_Ion
January 6th, 2009, 09:42 AM
Well I liked it!! Marilyn Manson's Beautiful People playing while a Wraith does his make-up? Perfect! One of my fave songs btw. The shows have always mentioned the alternate universe possibilities so why not deal with one of them exclusively in an episode? Loved it! I was also happy to see Keller as the no nonsense kind of character she was at the start instead of the whiny girly she's been turned into lately.

One question we were tossing around at home. In Vegas's reality, Sheppard went in against orders to save a medic he was involved with, "you knew 'er well" Rodney said. Does this mean that our Sheppard was possibly involved with the one he went in to rescue in "our reality" of the show? Capt. Holland according to Phantoms. Sorry if this was mentioned earlier, I didn't realize how many pages there were til I hit reply.

I don't think so, because the Capt. Holland in our reality is a guy and Shep isn't gay in canon. (said "in canon" for the slashers)

Pandora's_Box
January 6th, 2009, 09:53 AM
Oh and is it wrong to think that wraith dude was kinda hot :o

Yes. :p

Linda06
January 6th, 2009, 09:55 AM
That is a good point about Teyla being integral in the discovery of and awakening of the Wraith. Plot wise - maybe Teyla was killed in the Wraith attack or chose not to go with the crew of Atlantis in that reality. Ronon becoming part of the team was always a bit of a stretch in my mind, so I can believe that he never made it to Atlantis in another reality.

But on a more practical level - maybe Jason Momoa and Rachel Lutrell didn't want to fly all the way to Las Vegas just to do bit parts. Just a thought.

Yeah true.....Who would want to go in the middle of a desert ;)


Yes. :p

Oh :S Well um....He was kinda hot :p

jelgate
January 6th, 2009, 09:57 AM
Yeah true.....Who would want to go in the middle of a desert ;)Oh :S Well um....He was kinda hot :pWell then your in luck in Linda. The Wraith is hungry and is willing to go out for a night with you:P

Southern Red
January 6th, 2009, 10:00 AM
Nath, can you watch it again? Sometimes a second viewing will fill in the confusing parts.

I'm going to watch it again during lunch today. I want to catch some of the little moments that I missed the first time.

I was thinking last night (and early this morning) how much I liked the ending, with Shep lying on his back, looking up at the sky. (The dying part sucks, but that's the way the Shep crumbles in this AU.)

Because he had just found out that the universe was full of real, genuine alien creatures and they were visiting/attacking Earth and there were alternate versions of himself, that has to be rather mindblowing. Sure, he was more concerned with his current situations (bullet wound and such), but I think he knew he was dying and wanted to look up at the sky and ponder on the huge vasty vastness of the universe. Or he was thinking about his old pet dog. Who knows? It just seemed "right" for him to lie there, looking at the sky.

I loved the symbolism in that scene even if it did hit you right between the eyes. Now if he had died with his arms outstretched and that little cross glittering in the setting sun, it would have been a bit much. ;)

I can't stop thinking about this Shep and how he's so much like our Shep on the inside yet not. A couple of times he had lines about not being surprised by anything. Once in the beginning at the crime scene and again in the interrogation room with McKay. I think he was just used to saying that because he expected every day of his life to turn to ****. But until he learned about space aliens, he didn't realize that there were still surprises to come. I don't think our Shep is surprised by much anymore, expects every day to mostly turn to ****, but he's ready for it and knows in the end he'll still have a home and friends. Vegas John is truly a solitary man. And yes I have bought into RCC's whole concept. LOL

Linda06
January 6th, 2009, 10:00 AM
Well then your in luck in Linda. The Wraith is hungry and is willing to go out for a night with you:P

:mckay: Yeah yeah :p See, I don't need to go into the compliments thread for you to wind me up :p

Jewels
January 6th, 2009, 10:06 AM
I don't think so, because the Capt. Holland in our reality is a guy and Shep isn't gay in canon. (said "in canon" for the slashers)

Shep may not be gay in canon but there's nothing to say that he wouldn't swing both ways. Yes at first he did get together with a few female characters but more recently he has spent a massive amount of time with Rodney, til of course the writers decided to give Rodney a "beard" in Keller. When they did that they also ruined the way she had been written previously. Once she had a thing for Rodney she turned into an idiot who let her attractions get in the way of her medical responsibilities. It was a sad thing to see since the only problem I'd had with the character at first was that she was far, far too young to be a CMO, no matter how many years of school she'd been ahead.

Back to Vegas.... someone asked if it was wrong to find the Wraith character attractive? Certainly not!! Any Wraith played by James Lafazanos was hot, Todd is great and Neil Jackson...well he was hot as a Wraith!

Someone else questioned who would have turned down a free trip to Vegas? Well I would for one. I hate heat, already live in a dry dusty place (it is during the summer anyway) and since I don't gamble I can't think of one reason why I would go to such a flashy, trashy place. Yeah I know some people LOVE the place, it's just not my cup of tea.

Sparrow_hawk
January 6th, 2009, 10:38 AM
Oh andanother thing I didn't like, the music...Some of it was ok but some was just really irritating...And it didn't even feel like stargate...Like I said in an earlier post, I had to check to see if I was indeed watching stargate...

Oh and is it wrong to think that wraith dude was kinda hot :o
Nothing wrong with it at all -- 'cause he is!

Hermiiod
January 6th, 2009, 10:49 AM
Someone else questioned who would have turned down a free trip to Vegas? Well I would for one. I hate heat, already live in a dry dusty place (it is during the summer anyway) and since I don't gamble I can't think of one reason why I would go to such a flashy, trashy place. Yeah I know some people LOVE the place, it's just not my cup of tea.
I can understand that. Also they only took the necessary personnel to Vegas to avoid the annoying visas and other issues involved with taking a whole crew to another country for two days of filming.

Linda06
January 6th, 2009, 11:04 AM
Nothing wrong with it at all -- 'cause he is!

Especially when he was shirtless :D Ok i've been hanging around spikey too long :S ;)

scarys
January 6th, 2009, 11:15 AM
It would be great if someone could make series, with alternate Jonh Sheppard :sheppard:in main role. Where he investigates some strange crimes, what is made by aliens.
Like when goua'uld where infiltrating on earth or something like that.

Some kind of SGC agent outside. :D

Maybe some other ideas?

Corona
January 6th, 2009, 11:32 AM
Due to its proximity to the States I would think many crewmembers and all actors have passports. It keeps you working so you get one!

Those who didn't like this ep, did you watch it in HD on a big screen? It added a lot to the visuals in that format and suround sound completes the experience. It adds the WOW factor on the Las Vegas aerials and the A-10s.

Every series I can remember seems to do a departure show where the cast can play against type. It's good on the resume! It also, like one DS-9 ep I remember, gives us a chance to see the actors maybe out of make-up and character.

I think adding Ronan and Teyla would have stretched the story thin and their inclusion would have been gratuitous with little meaning.

I personally see no reason this series couldn't run a couple more years.

dasNdanger
January 6th, 2009, 11:40 AM
Oh and is it wrong to think that wraith dude was kinda hot :o

Welcome to the Green Side, darlin'...welcome to the Green Side...

*Caution: View at your own risk:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasNdanger/spike1a.jpg


das

Linda06
January 6th, 2009, 11:43 AM
Welcome to the Green Side, darlin'...welcome to the Green Side...

*Caution: View at your own risk:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasNdanger/spike1a.jpg


das

:eek: GUH.........http://bestsmileys.com/fainting/1.gif

jelgate
January 6th, 2009, 11:43 AM
Welcome to the Green Side, darlin'...welcome to the Green Side...*Caution:?* View at your own risk:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasNdanger/spike1a.jpgdasI call gender bias. No Wraith queens:P

nx01a
January 6th, 2009, 11:59 AM
I'm impressed.

The Good:
>The music! "The Beautiful People" by Marilyn Manson, "Sympathy for the Devil" by The Rolling Stones and "Solitary Man" by Johnny Cash. Very well done in association with the Wraith. I had sympathy for Todd.
>Poor Todd. Delirious yet still making perfect sense. His words rang so true on so many levels once you sift through them.
>The Shakespearean 'human dressed as a Wraith dressed as a human'.
>Every version of Rodney's responsible for rending reality asunder at least once. :P
>Were Rodney and Zelenka involved? Their argument seemed far more personal than normal.
>Rodney is SO cool!
>Everyone in suits. Looking sharp, Radek!
>Walter! Poor man, still the underling.
>Control chair!
>Any episode featuring drones destroying a hive ship gets a + vote from me.
>Were those railguns on those planes?
>Shep. Wow. What a difference a single action makes. He became the stereotypical borderline cop. I'm glad to see he did the right thing in the end.
>Giving away everything but the Johnny Cash poster!
>The CSI effects. I'm really not a fan of anything but the original CSI, and I'm really not a fan of the 'ultra cool' head CSIs in NY or Miami, but I love the procedure and the fun characterizations. They made it work very well. The really bright colours, the internal organ shots, the closeups of clues, the long hallway shots, the semi-corny final words before the credits, the buildings that couldn't possibly be police stations...:P
>Self-consciously referencing Keller's age. We've all thought it and said it and tptb obviously heard and responded tongue-in-cheek.
>Star Trek: The Experience! Closed?! NOOOOOO!
>Shep actually dying.
>The gangster 'lost finger' dialogue!

The Bad:
>No Ronon or Teyla. I can understand why they weren't there and it makes sense, but it would have been a chance to see Ronon with less hair and a new attitude.
>Can an average Wraith build a massive space/time rupturing subspace beacon, much less from SOME parts salvaged from a downed dart and 2 Dells? Dude! I doubt they'd have Todd-level smart Wraith as part of the first wave of darts.
>The final cliche flyby of the planes over the exploded trailer was bad. The planes looked... wrong.

The Verdict:
>I really enjoyed this episode. It reminded me of the "In A Mirror Darkly' episodes of Enterprise. They were only tangentially linked to the 'regular' universe but still offered a wonderful alternate look at our heroes. From the production values to the slightly altered acting to the music to the very concept, I loved the episode. I'm really hoping the '2nd' part of this episode in the series finale will impress me as much.

dasNdanger
January 6th, 2009, 12:02 PM
:eek: GUH.........http://bestsmileys.com/fainting/1.gif

Welcome to the gutter,
It gets worse here everyday.
Ya learn ta live like an animal,
In the gutter where we play.
If you got a hunger for what you see,
You'll take it eventually.
You can have anything you want,
But you better not take it from me...

;)


I call gender bias. No Wraith queens:P

No whining. You've got Keller.

:D


das

Mclean
January 6th, 2009, 12:03 PM
Just watched Vegas on Sky1 and I enjoyed. Thought the Wraith was good and enjoyed the card game. Thought it was well played out and sets up for a good final.

Automission
January 6th, 2009, 12:09 PM
Can some people clear a few things up. The Mckay said he was from an alternate reality. So if that's correct, why did an alternate reality team from SGA come to that one? Or have I missed the point there?
Also, if the wraith didn't know of earth's location, how could that wraith have survived a drone attack over earth, then crash landed there? Hell, does this mean when the same thing happened in other realities, there is still a wraith living in Las Vegas?

Speaking of which, when did a Wraith find time to get prosthetics and make up to cover his appearence, before going into hiding? :p

But ignoring this minor problems I had, I loved it. Felt fresh and well done, for once seeing alternate realities from the other side. It flowed really well, felt like a fantastic episode.

Fenrir Foxz
January 6th, 2009, 12:10 PM
Welcome to the gutter,
It gets worse here everyday.
Ya learn ta live like an animal,
In the jungle where we play.
If you got a hunger for what you see,
You'll take it eventually.
You can have anything you want,
But you better not take it from me...

;)

LOL, listening to Guns n' Roses much? :p

Mongoletsi
January 6th, 2009, 12:10 PM
I reckon those who didn't like Vegas are backers of the Save SGA campaign. I don't mean this offensively, just my undergrad psyche module kicking in here!

discodiva
January 6th, 2009, 12:10 PM
Excellent stuff.....Joe F was fantastic and the music - whoever chose that has real class!!.....Loved the whole thing from start to finish.....:sheppard:


Deeds xx

Jill_Ion
January 6th, 2009, 12:11 PM
Shep may not be gay in canon but there's nothing to say that he wouldn't swing both ways. Yes at first he did get together with a few female characters but more recently he has spent a massive amount of time with Rodney, til of course the writers decided to give Rodney a "beard" in Keller.

[snippage]

I'd say in our reality Shep is straight only, but in other universes, it's all open. :sheppard:

Crazedwraith
January 6th, 2009, 12:11 PM
Pretty good episode. Although the "lol, we're being like CSI" and modern cinematography got old quickly. But the rock song themes for the Wraith and Alt Sheppard kicked ass. As did the Wraith's tooling up sequence. Todd however veered a little to close to BSG Hybrid territory. And was it just me or did his cell look exactly like the one on Atlantis, except made from earth materials? Right down to the blue glow.

Still similarly to ENTs: In A Mirror Darkly; I can't help but feel that having an episode set entirely in a different reality is a bit of a cheat. THe team visit AUs or them visiting the main timeline; that's fine but not this. Might as well say every episode is in its own reality at that rate. It wold avoid all questions about continuity at least.

I did like the line: "our universe is the only one that I care about", hasn;t someone from our universe said that or something similar at one time or another? Looks like that's going to come back and bite us in the ass. Metaphorically at least.

Jill_Ion
January 6th, 2009, 12:11 PM
I'd watch it. :sheppard:

dasNdanger
January 6th, 2009, 12:13 PM
LOL, listening to Guns n' Roses much? :p


Only in my misguided youth. Now I listen to - ya know - Korn and stuff. Can't get away from pop metal, I guess. :P

das