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GateWorld
December 5th, 2008, 10:07 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s1/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/1101.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">SANCTUARY SEASON ONE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s1/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">WARRIORS</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 110</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
The disappearance of a college friend leads Will to an underground fight club, where the Cabal is testing warriors before creating an army. Helen stumbles upon a man she is convinced is her father.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s1/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Skydiver
December 12th, 2008, 07:58 PM
so far, the good

what we're finding out about helen. and i wonder which of the beatles she 'knew' ;)

we get a glimpse into the kabal and just how mean and inhumane they are. and a hint of the future with a mention of 'the cleansing'...so they're using the fights to 'field test' super soldiers to make an army to go out and kill off abbys I'd guess.

they did the reedit of the flashbacks pretty good, i'd only know they were reedited if i knew. the bug bit creeped me out, seriously creeped me out.

I think my biggest beef...SuperWill??? oh those bulky muscles were cheesy to the extreme. As in laughable cheesy. Just too OTT for my tastes. About the only real crit i had of the eps.

dasNdanger
December 12th, 2008, 08:44 PM
so far, the good

what we're finding out about helen. and i wonder which of the beatles she 'knew' ;)

we get a glimpse into the kabal and just how mean and inhumane they are. and a hint of the future with a mention of 'the cleansing'...so they're using the fights to 'field test' super soldiers to make an army to go out and kill off abbys I'd guess.

they did the reedit of the flashbacks pretty good, i'd only know they were reedited if i knew. the bug bit creeped me out, seriously creeped me out.

I think my biggest beef...SuperWill??? oh those bulky muscles were cheesy to the extreme. As in laughable cheesy. Just too OTT for my tastes. About the only real crit i had of the eps.


Awww...come on! He was The Incredible Bulk!! :D

I liked the episode well enough, but really miss not seeing both Henry and Bigfoot in the last two episodes... :( They're my favorites. :D


The bug looked like those little pill bugs I get in the garden...what are they called? Woodlouse? Sow bug? Rolly Polly Bug? I just call them pill bugs. :)

das

NearlyCircular
December 12th, 2008, 08:48 PM
so far, the good

what we're finding out about helen. and i wonder which of the beatles she 'knew' ;)

we get a glimpse into the kabal and just how mean and inhumane they are. and a hint of the future with a mention of 'the cleansing'...so they're using the fights to 'field test' super soldiers to make an army to go out and kill off abbys I'd guess.

they did the reedit of the flashbacks pretty good, i'd only know they were reedited if i knew. the bug bit creeped me out, seriously creeped me out.

I think my biggest beef...SuperWill??? oh those bulky muscles were cheesy to the extreme. As in laughable cheesy. Just too OTT for my tastes. About the only real crit i had of the eps.

Agreed! When he first started bulking up, all I could think of was the Incredible Hulk - not the movies, but the original tv show with Lou Ferrigno bursting out of his shirt. And Will's nickname made me laugh. All the other fighters had tough sounding names, but "Boy Man"?

I loved the bit at the beginning, but this won't be one of my favorites. After last week, it was a little disappointing.

NC

BubblingOverWithIdeas
December 12th, 2008, 08:57 PM
I liked the episode well enough, but really miss not seeing both Henry and Bigfoot in the last two episodes... :( They're my favorites. :D

Henry was in this one.



The bug looked like those little pill bugs I get in the garden...what are they called? Woodlouse? Sow bug? Rolly Polly Bug? I just call them pill bugs. :)

das

It's a scarab or dung beetle.

All those fighter names were cheesy. But if those people had class, they wouldn't be getting their kicks that way, would they?

rderoch
December 12th, 2008, 09:20 PM
so far, the good

what we're finding out about helen. and i wonder which of the beatles she 'knew' ;)

we get a glimpse into the kabal and just how mean and inhumane they are. and a hint of the future with a mention of 'the cleansing'...so they're using the fights to 'field test' super soldiers to make an army to go out and kill off abbys I'd guess.

they did the reedit of the flashbacks pretty good, i'd only know they were reedited if i knew. the bug bit creeped me out, seriously creeped me out.

I think my biggest beef...SuperWill??? oh those bulky muscles were cheesy to the extreme. As in laughable cheesy. Just too OTT for my tastes. About the only real crit i had of the eps.

My guess is George or John. Maybe we need a poll. :)

Adult Helen was much calmer in the reedit when she was pleading with her father.

I wasn't too thrilled with the fight scenes, but I really liked the storyline with her father.

Phenix
December 12th, 2008, 09:37 PM
This episode had a lot of potential but I don't like the direction it is taking with Will. I'm half way into it right now. I like the Magnus storyline but not so much with Will.

SamJackShipper93
December 12th, 2008, 09:56 PM
so far, the good

what we're finding out about helen. and i wonder which of the beatles she 'knew' ;)

we get a glimpse into the kabal and just how mean and inhumane they are. and a hint of the future with a mention of 'the cleansing'...so they're using the fights to 'field test' super soldiers to make an army to go out and kill off abbys I'd guess.

they did the reedit of the flashbacks pretty good, i'd only know they were reedited if i knew. the bug bit creeped me out, seriously creeped me out.

I think my biggest beef...SuperWill??? oh those bulky muscles were cheesy to the extreme. As in laughable cheesy. Just too OTT for my tastes. About the only real crit i had of the eps.

Oh, totally agree! I personally couldn't keep a straight face when Henry bust into the ring, because the body comparisions between the two was just so strange. ;)

Bit of a disappointment after last week, although I'm certainly not complaining! This series is incredible!

Edit: Can someone enlighten me? Who's the woman guest starring in next week's ep?

dasNdanger
December 12th, 2008, 10:28 PM
Henry was in this one.



Barely in it...as in, not enough for me. ;)


das

majorsal
December 12th, 2008, 11:18 PM
I loved the bit at the beginning, but this won't be one of my favorites. After last week, it was a little disappointing.

NC

i agree. after 'requiem', it would be VERY hard to follow it. but this one wasn't my cup of tea. i didn't even care for some of the direction.

what i did like, though were the helen/father bits. i laughed with some of his remarks to her. :p but when i replay this, i'm going to fast forward through stuff to get to the helen stuff.

(i'm thinking she watched the sunset/sunrise with paul :p)

wait, now why did helen's dad not age? i'm not even sure i like that he's still alive. i liked helen being the only one in the family to have the longevity.

i know sanctuary's experimenting and trying different things, but i hope they don't do something like this again. some of it just felt kind of cheesy (will as the incredible hulk), and some i just didn't like the way the director handled it. and i didn't like helen's dad still being alive, because it took a bit away from what helen and the five did to have their longevity. and why the heck would he want to leave his daughter! :mckay:

(i also think the scifi channel was having some probs with their picture. at first i thought it was just sanctuary, but i saw a commercial for battlestar galactica and i saw the same flaws. if this had happened when i was recording 'requiem'... :prioranime07: )

Chelle DB
December 13th, 2008, 03:51 AM
Having just finished watching Warriors...and this being the quickest I have ever been able to see an episode...I have to say that it doesn't surprise me that I wasn't as enthralled with this episode as I was with Requiem...of course I would be very surprised if they can top Requiem...well at least for this season anyhow!
I really didn't like the fighting. I just found it too...I dunno...much! Violence just isn't my thing...there's enough of that happening in the real world and in most of the other crap on tv.
I also didn't really like the storyline with Gregory either. I was kinda hoping that he would stick around. But they've booted him off...at least he's not dead and he can return. So...he was a clone wasn't he?? I mean going by the flashbacks where you can see the gunk on his hands...I got the impression he was cloned and not actually 180 years old. But anyhoo, I kinda found it lacked a certain something...I'm still figuring that one out though!
I loved the scene where Helen confronted the bad dude in the office getting his money out of the safe after he saw her enter the fight arena...he was scared of her...that was cool...and Helen was just so...awesomely good! :D
I'm not so sure about the Cabal...I don't like that chick in the Armani suit! I really hope that the Cabal storyline doesn't become a huge focus on the show. I don't like the Cabal...much like I didn't like the Ori in SG1.
I don't want this to sound like a negative post on the episode...I did enjoy it but admittedly, I did skip a few bits here and there coz it was just too much. Sorry.
If I had to give it a rating...I'd give it a 6.5/10. I'll probably re watch it but I'm in no hurry to do so just yet.
Sorry Sanctuary guys...a good ep but one that really didn't ruffle my feathers in the good ruffling kinda way!

EDIT...should mention that the bug was kinda freaky and I did jump a couple of times...BUT...it was again something that I'm sure someone will point out closely resembles something from Stargate...like the symbiote in the neck thing??!! Still I did like the bug...creepy little sucker!! :D

hisg1fans
December 13th, 2008, 04:52 AM
I didn't like the 'Hulk' either, way to cheesy. Leave the 'homages' to Stargate, along with the parasite in the neck (bug, Goa'uld). Little flickers of Stargate are fun, but I would rather not see Sanctuary having whole story lines/concepts that mirror it.

Helen had some good scenes. Ashley needs some work. IMO, she is starting to feel like she is 'pushed' into some scenes just to be there. She doesn't seem to have any real purpose.

The acting of some minor characters wasn't up to par. I never figured out everything about Helen's Dad, will have to rewatch. Maybe I'll like the show more on the second time around. This was the first big let down of the series for me.

And I vote for Ringo being who Helen watched the sun come up with. :D

tagger
December 13th, 2008, 07:07 AM
I guess after every peak there is a valley?

Part of the problem for me before I even saw the episode was how fantastic Requiem was. I was thinking nothing could top it. So, I was almost expecting to not like Warriors as much. But, I told myself the writers would wow me once again.

I loved the character bits we got!

Sounds like some major conflict is coming up with the Cabal? Cleansing or something? Chemically enhanced super soldiers... sounds familiar. Baseball players, sprinters, cyclists, lifters, runners, all those athletes who doped themselves into competitive glory rather than really earning it. :mad: *cough* What? You thought I meant the stargate super soldier? ;)

Henry: biceps! :)

I'm goin' with John as the Beatle she saw the sun come up with. hehe. :cool:

Too many bugs in the neck/brain for me: goauld, deep sea parasite, scarabs... all invading the brain and or neck and altering behavior.

I like altered behavior in a character, trying to figure out which brain structure is diseased, and unusual behavior that is quickly reversed is good for stories, but couldn't there be other options?

I was totally bummed her Dad wouldn't stay. My heart was hoping for a completely different ending. :( What Dad would just say no like that? As a mother, I would find it impossible to say no to my daughter if she really needed my help (even when she is an adult). Alternatively, maybe he wasn't the real father?

I would love if her real father was around a bit and we got flashbacks into how he mentored her and taught her.

EDIT: Oops, forgot, I liked the Moroccan scene and Ashley's tea pouring. =)

Skydiver
December 13th, 2008, 07:07 AM
i too vote for ringo. and sure, we can start a poll

I liked the part with 'dad', but i do think the will and the warriors (IncrediWill Hulk) is just stet up for the finale...something they needed to get out there and decided to use will. It woulda been cool had it been henry or biggy...of course they seem to want to turn humans into abbys, not use abbys, so that's probably why

I to hope that ashley gets something to do soon.

Shaod
December 13th, 2008, 07:19 AM
Hey, the ring announcer guy was from Sg1. I forgot the episode, but he was from the one when they see that the Tok'ra queen is being used to make tretonin.

He was the military guy from the beginning. Just though I would share that.

jelgate
December 13th, 2008, 07:31 AM
Maybe I missed something but did say how Helen's dad could still be alive?

silly sally
December 13th, 2008, 12:01 PM
This one had "filler" written all over it...
2/10

RealmOfX
December 13th, 2008, 12:29 PM
I'm not sure I like this episode, I'll have to watch it again when I have more time and decide exactly what I do and don't like. I knew going in that I wouldn't like the fight element but that's just me. I'm not sure I like the concept of Gregory Magnus being alive though I did enjoy watching Helen's and Ashley's reaction to him.

I liked the character moments and the elements setting up for a Cabal showdown in later episodes but ...

Yeah there's a but there, I guess I'm going to need to sort out why on future viewings.



Please note that I'm not picking on you but I guess I've heard or read something like this one too many times...


Leave the 'homages' to Stargate, along with the parasite in the neck (bug, Goa'uld). Little flickers of Stargate are fun, but I would rather not see Sanctuary having whole story lines/concepts that mirror it.

It wasn't an homage to Stargate. It wasn't an homage to anything but rather something to do with human physiology and is something that has cropped up in science fiction since people started writing it.

It's a pet peeve of mine recently about the number of younger people whinging about X being done in a previous recent program and therefore it belongs to that program and shouldn't be used in another. Lots of concepts were used in Stargate that had been used before, including this concept, and they'll be used again in the future. Get used to it. So long as it is only an element at a conceptual level and the writer puts their own spin on it then they aren't copying your favourite program from the 1990's or my favourite program from the 1960's or my favourite story from the 1800's or my Dad's favourite movie from the 1940's. I'd start worrying when they start mirroring reams of dialogue, then it becomes a ripoff.


Sorry for the venting, it's not directed at you it's just a pet peeve of mine and the straw that broke the camel's back.

knowles2
December 13th, 2008, 12:33 PM
so far, the good

what we're finding out about helen. and i wonder which of the beatles she 'knew' ;)

we get a glimpse into the kabal and just how mean and inhumane they are. and a hint of the future with a mention of 'the cleansing'...so they're using the fights to 'field test' super soldiers to make an army to go out and kill off abbys I'd guess.

or the humans.


This one had "filler" written all over it...
2/10

Actually it had set up for future episodes written all over it. Daddy/the bug did something to the Sanctuary, the cleansing (Human or Abnormal I wonder) what ever the Kabul will something better than their other solders to deal Tesla. The super Solders.

The only real disappointment I had at the end was that Henry did not transform in to the creature and started a fight between the two them. Personally would of had helen walk in and dart both of them.

The only other thing is that was how super will look, it was a bit over the top.

mapsc
December 13th, 2008, 12:44 PM
I liked this episode better than I thought I would. Not too crazy about the fight club scenes. It was the father/daughter scenes that I really loved. Gregory isn't quite Jacob yet, but he has potential. I hope he becomes a recurring character. I was really hoping to see a mother/daughter focused episode this year. Maybe in S2.

Questions:

Was Gregory her real father or a clone?

Were all of the flashback scenes taken from the webisodes?

I didn't hear a compelling reason why Gregory couldn't stay. Did I miss it?

Mike

Falcon 304
December 13th, 2008, 02:11 PM
He didn't stay because the Cabal would be after him and didn't want to endanger Helen or her Sanctuary.

Yes, the flashbacks were from the webisodes.

It's more likely that he's a clone, but he could be the original as well. They're rewriting history, so I think it's possible he discovered a way to preserve himself.

Klenotka
December 13th, 2008, 04:19 PM
What I liked about this was how Henry ran to Will as the first one. He surely knows this control loss from the first hand. And how Will asked him for help...I would love to see this friendship more developed.

I really liked the scene with Ashley, how she started to yell at her grandfather. It was a nice scene for her.

The muscles were horrible and it also reminded me of Hulk :D Not in a bad way but I would prefer if it werenīt over so quickly. Will was perfectly fine in the end of the episode - it was a little like a Stargate effect where they are trying to end everything in one episode. I would love to see some comfort from Helen, Ashley and Henry. Not just a cold medical statement from Helen.

But I wonder what Danny meant by the "I never saw someone to be affected that quickly" or something like that. Would it mean that Will is truly special in some ways? And will this all experience have an effect on him in the future? Iīd love to see it :) Nice line where Will mentioned his mother again - a continuity.

I liked both lines. Itīs interesting to see Helenīs past and I am glad that her father survived. I liked him and I hope we will see him again.

I would have also liked Willīs line, but it was so rushed - there was so much wasted potential.

(Sorry for my English, itīs late here)

rderoch
December 13th, 2008, 04:45 PM
wait, now why did helen's dad not age? i'm not even sure i like that he's still alive. i liked helen being the only one in the family to have the longevity.


He didn't stay because the Cabal would be after him and didn't want to endanger Helen or her Sanctuary.

Yes, the flashbacks were from the webisodes.

It's more likely that he's a clone, but he could be the original as well. They're rewriting history, so I think it's possible he discovered a way to preserve himself.

The footage of young Helen was reused, but the rest of the scenes from the flashbacks were reshot.

I got the impression that the Cabal thawed him out. It looked like ice falling from his hand. I'm thinking that when he disappeared, he had become lost and frozen in the wilderness somewhere. They found him. Though Helen did make a comment about "the quality I inherited from you", I thought her longevity was supposed to come from the vampire blood.

mr_kennedy
December 13th, 2008, 05:14 PM
great episode not as good as requiem but still good :)


The footage of young Helen was reused, but the rest of the scenes from the flashbacks were reshot.

I got the impression that the Cabal thawed him out. It looked like ice falling from his hand. I'm thinking that when he disappeared, he had become lost and frozen in the wilderness somewhere. They found him. Though Helen did make a comment about "the quality I inherited from you", I thought her longevity was supposed to come from the vampire blood.

i got that impression too, when you saw him thawing out, at first i thought it was part of experiments conducted on mr magnus but this makes more sense :)

that was not about the retarded aging, it was directed towards her fathers stubborness

Chelle DB
December 13th, 2008, 05:27 PM
And I vote for Ringo being who Helen watched the sun come up with. :D


I'm goin' with John as the Beatle she saw the sun come up with. hehe. :cool:

I would love if her real father was around a bit and we got flashbacks into how he mentored her and taught her.

EDIT: Oops, forgot, I liked the Moroccan scene and Ashley's tea pouring. =)
My vote is it was John Lennon that Helen spent some "time" with!! I wonder how far they will take this history thing with Helen and how many famous people she has been around...and who does she see now who is famous??

I think it would be great to have her father around and have some more flashbacks to their relationship and their work together...that would be a good thing!

As for the Moroccan scene...I loved it too...it was nice to see them chillax'n and eating with their hands!!! :eek:...Cool!!

It was the father/daughter scenes that I really loved.
Yep...they were lovely! :D
Questions:

Was Gregory her real father or a clone?
I'm figuring he was a clone.
Were all of the flashback scenes taken from the webisodes?
I believe, yes they were!!
I didn't hear a compelling reason why Gregory couldn't stay. Did I miss it?

He couldn't stay because of the Cabal. I really do not like the Cabal.

The footage of young Helen was reused, but the rest of the scenes from the flashbacks were reshot.
You know, those flashback scenes of Helen from the webisodes never did anything for me...there was just something not right about the way the young girl talked...it just wasn't Helen-ish!
I got the impression that the Cabal thawed him out. It looked like ice falling from his hand.
I thought at first it might have been ice but then I thought it almost looked like a gel like substance...so I'm betting on him being cloned!
Though Helen did make a comment about "the quality I inherited from you", I thought her longevity was supposed to come from the vampire blood.
I think Helen was talking about another characteristic...stubbornness???...I'll have to re watch it now...but I don't think it had anything to do with the longevity...that's already been confirmed as a result of Helen mucking around with Vampire blood.

majorsal
December 13th, 2008, 06:57 PM
The only other thing is that was how super will look, it was a bit over the top.

i think it would have been a bigger impact if will just looked like himself, but with super strength powers. maybe his face a bit deformed like his friend, but not the incredible hulk look.

so after thinking this ep through, and talking about it with my mom, it's two main things i didn't enjoy about this episode. 1, will turning into that muscle creature, and 2, helen's dad not aging like her.

what i did enjoy were the opening sequence, and the helen/father dialog and scenes.

and boy... this might not be nice, but boy did i see just how much better amanda is as an actor than everyone else in this episode. sorry everyone else




sally :)

the fifth man
December 13th, 2008, 07:16 PM
This episode really didn't do too much for me, at all. The only part I really liked was the back-story on Helen and her father.

Skydiver
December 13th, 2008, 07:47 PM
that was the high point, finding out more about helen

Briangate78
December 13th, 2008, 09:09 PM
Wow, after Requiem I said this show has become awesome. I am now afraid to even watch this ep after reading the reviews which are even worse than SGA's ep for the same night. Should I even bother with this ep? If it's a stand alone it will not add to the story arc, which I am still trying to figure out what it is. :confused:

majorsal
December 13th, 2008, 09:12 PM
Wow, after Requiem I said this show has become awesome. I am now afraid to even watch this ep after reading the reviews which are even worse than SGA's ep for the same night. Should I even bother with this ep? If it's a stand alone it will not add to the story arc, which I am still trying to figure out what it is. :confused:

i'd say go ahead and watch it. it does have some nice things in it. :)

Briangate78
December 13th, 2008, 09:12 PM
i'd say go ahead and watch it. it does have some nice things in it. :)

I guess it was not a great night for SCI FI friday huh? :o

majorsal
December 13th, 2008, 09:20 PM
I guess it was not a great night for SCI FI friday huh? :o

i take it some didn't like atlantis' ep? :p

Chelle DB
December 13th, 2008, 11:13 PM
Thing is...you're gonna get eps that will disappoint to some degree. I know there are others out there who enjoyed this ep but for me...well I guess what really bought it down was the fighting and HulkWill! And in all honesty...I'm really not into the Cabal...I think it's the lady who seems to be in charge thing...I dunno...she makes me ill!

helenmagnus23
December 14th, 2008, 12:02 AM
From what i have seen so far i really liked finding out more about Helen and seeing her father again scince the webisodes :cool: I was supriesed to see a lady in charge of the cabal i tought it would be like this creepy cloacked person living in an old castle with lot's of abnormal body gard's lol :bow: but from what i've seen so far i've realy liked it .:)

Briangate78
December 14th, 2008, 07:27 AM
So I just watched this episode. Somethings I did not like was the entire fight club thing, and super Will. The episode I found very predictable and knew how it was going to end. Lets have Dad get his memory back by removing the Goa'uld er um Scarab, then rush to save Will, and then save his friend Danny. I like the eps that make you think and sit at the edge of your seat guessing what will happen. Super Will was so fake looking and that was just pathethic. I also hated the CGI of stretch man, it looked so fake. Well Sanctuary is not exactly getting the big bucks to fund these kind of scenes. Also, the Scarabs were a rip-off of Goa'ulds from SG-1. The best part of this ep was Helen and her father. So overall not a good ep, but it could of been a lot worse. After an amazing episode last week the show just took a 180 degrees turn.

BTW, next ep looks like a Replicator attack? Yes, I know a lot of the cast and crew came from Stargate but come on now.

At least Atlantis changes things around and makes it their own. It is Stargate they can use similar stories and technology like "Identity". Sanctuary however needs to be different than Stargate, even if a lot of the cast and crew came from Stargate.

jckfan55
December 14th, 2008, 08:47 AM
Agreed! When he first started bulking up, all I could think of was the Incredible Hulk - not the movies, but the original tv show with Lou Ferrigno bursting out of his shirt. And Will's nickname made me laugh. All the other fighters had tough sounding names, but "Boy Man"?


NC
I thought that too!


i agree. after 'requiem', it would be VERY hard to follow it. but this one wasn't my cup of tea. i didn't even care for some of the direction.

what i did like, though were the helen/father bits. i laughed with some of his remarks to her. :p but when i replay this, i'm going to fast forward through stuff to get to the helen stuff. me too.

I had to wonder if they thought "ooh an 'extreme fighting with abnormals' would make a cool episode!" and then structured an episode around that or if they wanted the cabal to do experiments & decided to work the fighting thing in. I thought that was kind of cheesy. I noticed Damien Kindler did not write this one, which may be significant. or not.


wait, now why did helen's dad not age? i'm not even sure i like that he's still alive. i liked helen being the only one in the family to have the longevity.

In the Gregory's flashbacks I couldn't tell if that was him covered in ice? He was somehow cryogenically frozen? I guess I could deal with that better than that he had Helen's longevity, but I prefer the idea of him long gone and a legend in Helen's mind, appearing only in flashbacks.

That said, I did like her moment at the beginning with him. "I'm Helen." She seemed so sweet and childlike at that moment. And then when he said he had to leave and I was quite sad for Helen. I don't remember her exact words, but you could feel the blow to her.

Also, it looked like she had a doll in her box of treasures along with the microscope her dad gave her and the surgical instruments. I wonder if the doll was one her mom gave her. As important as her dad was, I'd love to learn things about Helen and her mom too.

All in all, an ok episode. But of course it may have suffered by comparison coming right after the awesome Requiem.

Skydiver
December 14th, 2008, 09:25 AM
I don't have an issue with instinct because it makes sense that this would be an issue. the sanctuary seems to need to be under the radar, existing because it's nothing more than an urban legend.

and reporters would be a direct threat to that.

pjt
December 14th, 2008, 01:50 PM
This was a decent episode, the part with Helen's dad, and the Cabal was great.
As for the Fight Club part, I recognized at once the Angel episode that was "reinvented" for this one. By the way, I did not like that episode that much, but at least Angel got the demons to fight for the right cause. Well, this did make this episode different, didn't it. As for Will the Hulk :chuckles:, I really had to use my 'Suspension of Belief for Free' card. :D

RealmOfX
December 14th, 2008, 02:06 PM
So I just watched this episode. Somethings I did not like was the entire fight club thing, and super Will. The episode I found very predictable and knew how it was going to end. Lets have Dad get his memory back by removing the Goa'uld er um Scarab, then rush to save Will, and then save his friend Danny. I like the eps that make you think and sit at the edge of your seat guessing what will happen. Super Will was so fake looking and that was just pathethic. I also hated the CGI of stretch man, it looked so fake. Well Sanctuary is not exactly getting the big bucks to fund these kind of scenes. Also, the Scarabs were a rip-off of Goa'ulds from SG-1. The best part of this ep was Helen and her father. So overall not a good ep, but it could of been a lot worse. After an amazing episode last week the show just took a 180 degrees turn.

BTW, next ep looks like a Replicator attack? Yes, I know a lot of the cast and crew came from Stargate but come on now.

At least Atlantis changes things around and makes it their own. It is Stargate they can use similar stories and technology like "Identity". Sanctuary however needs to be different than Stargate, even if a lot of the cast and crew came from Stargate.

You wouldn't be just a tad biased towards Stargate would you? ;)

:rolleyes: points to my previous post :rolleyes:


<snip>
Please note that I'm not picking on you but I guess I've heard or read something like this one too many times...



It wasn't an homage to Stargate. It wasn't an homage to anything but rather something to do with human physiology and is something that has cropped up in science fiction since people started writing it.

It's a pet peeve of mine recently about the number of younger people whinging about X being done in a previous recent program and therefore it belongs to that program and shouldn't be used in another. Lots of concepts were used in Stargate that had been used before, including this concept, and they'll be used again in the future. Get used to it. So long as it is only an element at a conceptual level and the writer puts their own spin on it then they aren't copying your favourite program from the 1990's or my favourite program from the 1960's or my favourite story from the 1800's or my Dad's favourite movie from the 1940's. I'd start worrying when they start mirroring reams of dialogue, then it becomes a ripoff.


Sorry for the venting, it's not directed at you it's just a pet peeve of mine and the straw that broke the camel's back.

The scarabs were a ripoff of the Goa'uld?!? Really??

Let's see, on the one hand you have a sentient but parasitic being hellbent on galactic domination that use other beings as hosts and take control of them. They steal everything, enslave as many populations as they can and are a quite despotic space faring race at war with themselves and everyone else in various galaxies. They enter the host body by chewing a way in and wrap themselves around the brain stem.

On the other hand you have an earth bound secret organisation that is experimenting with genetic alteration and use a beetle to gain control over humans they have gentically altered possibly for the use in something called "the cleansing". The beetles are inserted surgically at the back of the neck.

Gee they don't sound all that similar to me. Maybe, just maybe, someone actually took some relatively common concepts like taking control of a human via another organism and the organism attaching itself to the human brain or spine then put their own spin on it. That was what you were asking for wasn't it??

As for the next ep I haven't seen the preview so I can't comment but as for the Stargate replicators - yep it was done before at the conceptual level. Does that mean Stargate shouldn't have used it????


Oh Noes!! Stargate is just one long ripoff of every other sci fi show (and a few other genres to boot)!! Oh Noes!
[/sarcasm]

Briangate78
December 14th, 2008, 04:05 PM
You missed my point, these people had written Stargate eps so it would seem like they are taking something they've written before, but whatever. The show has Stargate written all over it, and I was hoping for something totally different, which has been, up until this episode. I thought the Scarabs were just a lousy touch.



As per this episode folks here are right. It was not good. Last week's was Superb. Yes, I am always going to favor Stargate, BSG, Eureka, and etc to this show because I put those shows before this one. There is nothing wrong with that.

Skydiver
December 14th, 2008, 05:47 PM
one thing i think has to be a gimme....if you're gonna control a body, ya gotta start with the brain.

so there will be a common thread

Like i said above, i think, i do have an issue with will's muscles. you can't just bulk up out of thin air and then have it vanish overnight. He should hae had protein cravings and other issues trying to make his body make the muscles out of something.

or he shouldn't have bulked up as much. (i do wonder if the 'muscles' were all foam or if they were blow up....if the latter, then they likely had a 'no sharp objects' warning on the set :)

tricky
December 14th, 2008, 05:55 PM
Ok, time for some things that I noticed:
Scarabs: What did they do, exactly? The one in Hellen's dad seemed to give him a totally different personality (did the Cabal put it in before, or after he helped them?), and it seemed to turn Will's friend into a junkie, and it made Will the ultimate Hulk. It seems pretty varied in it's effects to be usefull. I mean if it made people obey you, or took them over, why waste Will's Sanctuary connection by making him into Nerd-Hulk? They seem to want the Sanct. out of the way, so why not use that?

Hellen's dad: I think he was frozen; stuff on his hand looked like ice. But what got me was he didn't react to the word 'Abnormal' at all while they were asking him about the fight. If this was SG, and you found a guy at the site of a Trust operation, and when you said "Goa'uld", "symbiote" or "Jaffa", and he didn't go "What the hell are you talkin about?", you'd bring him in, since he knows stuff most people don't. And with Will's 'notice' ability, he should have noticed that.

So, does this mean the world at large in Sanct. know about abnormals?

I can see a pattern forming about the Cabal: they seem to be behind things here and there. And, after that sub episode, and reading some spoilers, I think things are going to come to a head very soon.

atlantis_babe34
December 14th, 2008, 06:03 PM
My Votes on Either George Or Paul:D

jz9
December 14th, 2008, 06:57 PM
Question: was Charlie Helen's father or not? Did the bug turn him into a Gregory-like person or Charlie was 170+ years old and the bug prevented him from remembering his true nature?

Skydiver
December 14th, 2008, 07:08 PM
my understanding is that he IS gregory. either the real person or a clone...or an identitical looking person that helen believes is gregory

she appears to accept him as her father

jz9
December 14th, 2008, 07:16 PM
Thanks.

Okay. We know why Helen was 157. It bugs me a bit that he was accepted as the father without anyone questioning why, how, when and where.

Skydiver
December 14th, 2008, 07:20 PM
true, i would have expected ashley to question, even though she was used to odd stuff

majorsal
December 14th, 2008, 07:27 PM
Also, it looked like she had a doll in her box of treasures along with the microscope her dad gave her and the surgical instruments. I wonder if the doll was one her mom gave her. As important as her dad was, I'd love to learn things about Helen and her mom too.


ooh, i hope someone can get a screencap of the doll! :D

i'd like to know more about her mom too. love my mom/daughter relationships. :D

majorsal
December 14th, 2008, 07:36 PM
oh, something else i meant to comment on before! so will gets a message that only 'he' is supposed to meet up with the mechanic. and then gets kidnapped and into super trouble.

does will learn nothing after he did this in 'folding man' and almost died there too! *bops will on the head*

chocdoc
December 14th, 2008, 08:05 PM
You missed my point, these people had written Stargate eps so it would seem like they are taking something they've written before, but whatever. The show has Stargate written all over it, and I was hoping for something totally different, which has been, up until this episode. I thought the Scarabs were just a lousy touch.



As per this episode folks here are right. It was not good. Last week's was Superb. Yes, I am always going to favor Stargate, BSG, Eureka, and etc to this show because I put those shows before this one. There is nothing wrong with that.


This was my least favorite episode of the season, but I did like the Helen/father parts and learned a little more about the Cabal.

Even though this was my least favorite episode, I've liked all the other episodes, and loved several of them (The Five, Kush, and Requiem, and Edward). So, for me, I'll forgive a not so good episode -- still really like the show overall.

And I'm looking forward to the last three episodes, and particularly the last two as it seems they will move the story arcs further in those two.

parsifal
December 14th, 2008, 10:02 PM
ooh, i hope someone can get a screencap of the doll! :D


http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1857/1x10dollsy6.th.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1x10dollsy6.jpg)

Celandine
December 14th, 2008, 10:07 PM
Finally finished watching Warrior.

I do believe Gregory is her father. On the operating table, his comments were said at one of his weakest moments (one of pain) and for that reason I don't think he was pulling an act or anything. They came directly from his mind free from the affects of the 'bug thing' which was controlling his thoughts prior. His knowledge of surgery and what he directed Helen to do was too uncannily not be believable as well.

The ep didnt explain some things though or maybe I missed something. How did her father survive all these years? He'd be 180ish years old. Did the Kabal do something to him knowing he was Helen's father? Something to prolong his life?

Will looked like the Incredible Hulk from the 70's tv show. All that was missing was the green body paint and the torn pants. :P Very silly.

I had a feeling this ep wouldnt compare to Requiem as that might be the pinnacle ep of this season, but it was still good. I definitely loved the tender father/daughter moment at the end and the look on Helen's face was spot on imo.

GateTrek2004
December 14th, 2008, 10:40 PM
Oh, totally agree! I personally couldn't keep a straight face when Henry bust into the ring, because the body comparisions between the two was just so strange. ;)

Bit of a disappointment after last week, although I'm certainly not complaining! This series is incredible!

Edit: Can someone enlighten me? Who's the woman guest starring in next week's ep?

Thats Rekha Sharma Who Plays Tori Foster From Battlestar Galactica!

GateTrek2004
December 14th, 2008, 10:45 PM
Thanks.

Okay. We know why Helen was 157. It bugs me a bit that he was accepted as the father without anyone questioning why, how, when and where.

Maybe the Scarrab somehow kept him the same age he was then Helen "lost" his father? The Cabal might have captured him back in the late 1800's and infected him to help them start making those warriors.

Achaja
December 15th, 2008, 01:51 AM
I don't like this ep because of these fight scenes- they were brutal and awful. The rest part of movie was great, Ashley plays excellent :)

hisg1fans
December 15th, 2008, 05:04 AM
<snip>.......
So, does this mean the world at large in Sanct. know about abnormals?

I can see a pattern forming about the Cabal: they seem to be behind things here and there. And, after that sub episode, and reading some spoilers, I think things are going to come to a head very soon.

Does the world know about the abnormals? I wondered this too after getting past the cheesy WillHulk. It seems they are not such the mystery the show seemed to make them out to be.

Cabal pattern? I've been thinking about the same thing. This brings up the question:...... Are abnormals 'normal', as in from pure evolution and Helen is trying to follow a pure scientific path to learn about or help them?

Or are the abnormals genetic manipulations by the Cabal over the centuries and Helen is trying to undo their manipulations or keep the Cabal under control?

I also wonder if the woman in charge of the Cabal is 'Griffin' from The Five.

Upon listening to Helen's words in regards to her father, she says she 'lost him once before' and didn't want to do it again. She didn't say he died. She 'lost' him. This could mean many things. Could there have been a struggle with the Cabal and he was kidnapped? Could he have experimented with the vampire blood and Helen couldn't save him on the operating table so she froze him. Then the Cabal stole Frozen Dad? So many possibilities.

This episode seemed to take the story into a totally different direction for me. It may just be somebody besides DK wrote it, but I'm sure he had input/control over the story line.

I might be liking this episode more after getting past Cheesy WillHulk :p There seems to be many more questions after the show than before.

meredithchandler73
December 15th, 2008, 10:26 AM
Not an amazing episode - but there really was no topping Requiem last week! I love this show so much that I tend to look at everything with a glass-half-full attitude. Sure, there were things I didn't really like about the ep, but more than enough that I did like. My thoughts:
--the opening scene - wonderful setting and fun conversation. I love Gershwin myself. I confess, I don't know much about The Beatles (some of their music, but certainly not all) and I won't even speculate which one Helen saw the sunrise with. :)
--I liked how they portrayed the interaction between Helen and Charlie. I wanted to kick him at times, the way he would talk to her and treat her!
--It's been a while since I watched the webisodes. I need to go back so I can compare the flashbacks. I almost thought they just reused all that footage from the webisodes - it looked so similar. (I know that the scenes with Young Helen weren't reshot.)
--I believe Helen said that her father disappeared - so I guess he didn't actually die. The fact that Gregory/Charlie was having all these memories once the scarab was being removed from his neck makes me think that the Cabal found him frozen somewhere, thawed him out and started to use his knowledge and his work to create an abnormal army.
--Bulked up Will really did look ridiculous. The fact of the matter is that it would be SO much more sinister if this abnormal army the Cabal is trying to create didn't look abnormal at all! Then Helen and her team would really have trouble trying to track down what's going on.
--Loved to see Ashley confronting Charlie and sticking up for her mother. I want more mother-daughter stuff!!!
--Speaking of mother-daughter stuff - I'd love a little history on Helen's mother one of these days! They'll save that for some future episode, I hope.
--I liked that Henry ran in to try to bring Will to his senses - and it worked. I was starting to get afraid that Will was actually going to kill his friend and have to live with the consequences of what happened while had been turned into an abnormal!
--I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but one of my favorite parts - KICKASS!HELEN going after the guy running the Meat Club (I think that's what they were calling it - don't want to get into trouble using the name Fight Club, I suppose). Loved how she kicked the guy from his hand, hit him, then put her foot on his throat. You go, girl!

And this has nothing to do with the episode, but I'd like to start a campaign to get Teryl Rothery (Dr. Janet Frasier from SG1) to be on the show as a recurring role or something. :)

Amalthea
December 15th, 2008, 10:29 AM
I found this episode to be really spazzy. It was as if they needed to fit 10 different ideas into one episode in order to move forward. I can appreciate the need to set the stage, but sadly, for me, this one just ended up being sloppy and wrapping up too quickly as though they had run out of time.

That said, it did raise interesting questions going forward that others mentioned, ie Helen's father; how big is the underground that knows about abnormals; and how deep has the Cabal infiltrated into the mainstream world?

EH-T
December 15th, 2008, 12:11 PM
i too vote for ringo. and sure, we can start a poll

I liked the part with 'dad', but i do think the will and the warriors (IncrediWill Hulk) is just stet up for the finale...something they needed to get out there and decided to use will. It woulda been cool had it been henry or biggy...of course they seem to want to turn humans into abbys, not use abbys, so that's probably why

I to hope that ashley gets something to do soon.

:lol: Had to green ya for that one!


Hey, the ring announcer guy was from Sg1. I forgot the episode, but he was from the one when they see that the Tok'ra queen is being used to make tretonin.

He was the military guy from the beginning. Just though I would share that.

The Cure. He was also in the one where 3/4 of SG1 were captured and put in cages.


RealmOfX;9391167]I'm not sure I like this episode, I'll have to watch it again when I have more time and decide exactly what I do and don't like. I knew going in that I wouldn't like the fight element but that's just me. I'm not sure I like the concept of Gregory Magnus being alive though I did enjoy watching Helen's and Ashley's reaction to him.

I liked the character moments and the elements setting up for a Cabal showdown in later episodes but ...

I was thinking pretty much the same thing.





Please note that I'm not picking on you but I guess I've heard or read something like this one too many times...



It wasn't an homage to Stargate. It wasn't an homage to anything but rather something to do with human physiology and is something that has cropped up in science fiction since people started writing it.

It's a pet peeve of mine recently about the number of younger people whinging about X being done in a previous recent program and therefore it belongs to that program and shouldn't be used in another. Lots of concepts were used in Stargate that had been used before, including this concept, and they'll be used again in the future. Get used to it. So long as it is only an element at a conceptual level and the writer puts their own spin on it then they aren't copying your favourite program from the 1990's or my favourite program from the 1960's or my favourite story from the 1800's or my Dad's favourite movie from the 1940's. I'd start worrying when they start mirroring reams of dialogue, then it becomes a ripoff.


Sorry for the venting, it's not directed at you it's just a pet peeve of mine and the straw that broke the camel's back.

I had a problem with the bug being too close to the whole "snake in the head" thing. I agree that a lot of scifi ideas are reused and I wouldn't use the term "ripoff". I think the problem for me is that a lot of the people involved in Santuary are from Stargate so it emphasizes the similarities. I would have preferred it was a drug rather than a bug that caused the abnormals (and Dad) to do the bidding of the Cabal.

I do like it that the leader of the Cabal is a woman. Love the strong roles for women in this show.

tricky
December 15th, 2008, 04:47 PM
I just had a horrible thought about the lady in charge of this project.

I have nothing to base this on, but since we know nothing of this person's life, it is possible (and would be a major 'jump the shark' event!) that the 'Cabal woman' is

HELLEN'S MOTHER!!!

I pray that I am wrong. (if this was ST, then she would be future Ashley ;) )

hisg1fans
December 15th, 2008, 04:50 PM
I just had a horrible thought about the lady in charge of this project.

I have nothing to base this on, but since we know nothing of this person's life, it is possible (and would be a major 'jump the shark' event!) that the 'Cabal woman' is

HELLEN'S MOTHER!!!

I pray that I am wrong. (if this was ST, then she would be future Ashley ;) )

OOOOOOHHHH! I hadn't thought of that one. I guess we'll watch and see, won't we :)

Rocky89
December 15th, 2008, 06:51 PM
OK, I just saw Warriors-- I finally got my Amanda/Helen fix *HUGE sigh of relief*. Anyway, it was actually pretty good, it was no Requiem, and I don't think any episode will ever be-- well not now anyway, but it was pretty good. Before I start I just want to assure you, this review won't be as LONG as my review for Requiem. *Everyone has a sigh of relief*

I really like how it started with the team in tent, and I got to tell ya, Helen look very hot in that dress http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp337/Rocky89_03/cameron_drool-1.gif.

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0006.jpg
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0007.jpg
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0011.jpg
*Mesmerized by the third pic*... Anyway, it was cool hearing that Helen's favorite bands are Sgt. Pepper and... *Can't remember full name* something blue , perhaps Helen was a party girl in her day ;). Will got a text saying a friend of his was in trouble, a little later, that lead him to an empty warehouse, and that's where Helen finds her daddy. She remembers him, however he doesn't remember her, so they take him back to the Sanctuary to figure him out, there Will explains to Helen that he may not be her father, but she insists that he is. She goes to talk to him, and he still doesn't believe her and thinks she's wacko. But we all know Helen's always right, same with Sam and Amanda. *Thumbs up*

We then find Helen and the team looking at pics of some of the abnormals Helen's father, Greg, help create, and she finds something odd about his DNA Later she takes him to the lab, and she tells him about his past, and I have to admit she looked very nice doing it *Wink*. http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0326.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0328.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0329.jpg

It was also really good seeing a blonde Helen Magnus *YAY* and I thought the whole beetle in the head was freaky, kinda reminded me of the Goa'uld, but it was all good :). Then came the scene, a great scene, the scene that's the origin of this pic, this glorious pic http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/Sanctuary/16ghnmj.jpg

*Goes off to get a class of water*

The scene in Henry's office, I got to say, Helen + that tight grey shirt = :cameron08:

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0350.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0351.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0352.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0364.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0365.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0366.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0378.jpg

That was the highlight of the episode for me, besides every second if Amanda screen time that is :). *Stares at pics, goes off to go get more water*. Helen tells Greg that she's going to remove the bug from his head, after Helen and Ashley remove the bug, they track down Will, who's already been changed into "Hulk Will" and Henry's able to talk him down, while Helen gives one of the bad guys the old foot to the throat, which was pretty hot btw.

I thought the end was nice, it all seemed right, the fight club was shut down, Will's buddy got back with his family, and Helen and her dad said good-bye the right way. And I loved how the episode ended with us seeing Helen's face at the end, which IMHO is always the best way to end an episode, although she was crying.

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0572.jpg

Skydiver
December 15th, 2008, 06:54 PM
it's rhapsody in blue

atlantis_babe34
December 15th, 2008, 07:11 PM
Ahhh Nevermind Much Love:D

Rocky89
December 15th, 2008, 07:22 PM
it's rhapsody in blue

Thanks :).

majorsal
December 15th, 2008, 07:33 PM
The ep didnt explain some things though or maybe I missed something. How did her father survive all these years? He'd be 180ish years old. Did the Kabal do something to him knowing he was Helen's father? Something to prolong his life?



i've got a couple of questions (that might be answered on a second viewing): why did the cabal want zimmerman, and was helen's dad put in that location so he'd be picked up by magnus' gang and brought back to the sanctuary?


sally :)

Rocky89
December 15th, 2008, 09:07 PM
I think my biggest beef...SuperWill??? oh those bulky muscles were cheesy to the extreme. As in laughable cheesy. Just too OTT for my tastes. About the only real crit i had of the eps.

:D... OT, when you said "beef" it reminded me of something really funny that happened once in high school :D. There was this guy, he was kind of a bully, so one day I decided to teach him a lesson :baal:. I stayed after school, and I waited till the halls were empty-- btw, this is before I really knew Amanda :(, I took some white-out and I rubbed it all over is lock on his locker, so he couldn't see the numbers or anything :docianime09:.

The next day, I was in a teachers office waiting for him to see it, and I laughed like crazy when I heard him, he was pounding the locker, and he was like: "Yo, who the f*** did this to my locker?" :jack_new_anime06:. The teacher tried to calm him down and he said: "Chris, calm down, it was probably one of your buddies." And he's like: "Sir, this is beef! I mean look at it, I can't see where the zero is or anything". He so had it coming, he had to use Scissors to take off the paste :D. I did it again before the end of the school year btw :P.



Agreed! When he first started bulking up, all I could think of was the Incredible Hulk - not the movies, but the original tv show with Lou Ferrigno bursting out of his shirt. And Will's nickname made me laugh. All the other fighters had tough sounding names, but "Boy Man"?

I loved the bit at the beginning, but this won't be one of my favorites. After last week, it was a little disappointing.

NC


Oh, totally agree! I personally couldn't keep a straight face when Henry bust into the ring, because the body comparisions between the two was just so strange.

Bit of a disappointment after last week, although I'm certainly not complaining! This series is incredible!


i agree. after 'requiem', it would be VERY hard to follow it. but this one wasn't my cup of tea. i didn't even care for some of the direction.

what i did like, though were the helen/father bits. i laughed with some of his remarks to her. :p but when i replay this, i'm going to fast forward through stuff to get to the helen stuff.

(i'm thinking she watched the sunset/sunrise with paul :p)

wait, now why did helen's dad not age? i'm not even sure i like that he's still alive. i liked helen being the only one in the family to have the longevity.

i know sanctuary's experimenting and trying different things, but i hope they don't do something like this again. some of it just felt kind of cheesy (will as the incredible hulk), and some i just didn't like the way the director handled it. and i didn't like helen's dad still being alive, because it took a bit away from what helen and the five did to have their longevity. and why the heck would he want to leave his daughter! :mckay:

(i also think the scifi channel was having some probs with their picture. at first i thought it was just sanctuary, but i saw a commercial for battlestar galactica and i saw the same flaws. if this had happened when i was recording 'requiem'... :prioranime07: )


I guess after every peak there is a valley?

Part of the problem for me before I even saw the episode was how fantastic Requiem was. I was thinking nothing could top it. So, I was almost expecting to not like Warriors as much. But, I told myself the writers would wow me once again.

I loved the character bits we got!

I was totally bummed her Dad wouldn't stay. My heart was hoping for a completely different ending. What Dad would just say no like that? As a mother, I would find it impossible to say no to my daughter if she really needed my help (even when she is an adult). Alternatively, maybe he wasn't the real father?

I would love if her real father was around a bit and we got flashbacks into how he mentored her and taught her.

EDIT: Oops, forgot, I liked the Moroccan scene and Ashley's tea pouring. =)


Having just finished watching Warriors...and this being the quickest I have ever been able to see an episode...I have to say that it doesn't surprise me that I wasn't as enthralled with this episode as I was with Requiem...of course I would be very surprised if they can top Requiem...well at least for this season anyhow!

If I had to give it a rating...I'd give it a 6.5/10. I'll probably re watch it but I'm in no hurry to do so just yet.
Sorry Sanctuary guys...a good ep but one that really didn't ruffle my feathers in the good ruffling kinda way!

EDIT...should mention that the bug was kinda freaky and I did jump a couple of times...BUT...it was again something that I'm sure someone will point out closely resembles something from Stargate...like the symbiote in the neck thing??!! Still I did like the bug...creepy little sucker!!


Wow, after Requiem I said this show has become awesome. I am now afraid to even watch this ep after reading the reviews which are even worse than SGA's ep for the same night. Should I even bother with this ep? If it's a stand alone it will not add to the story arc, which I am still trying to figure out what it is.


So I just watched this episode. Somethings I did not like was the entire fight club thing, and super Will. The episode I found very predictable and knew how it was going to end. Lets have Dad get his memory back by removing the Goa'uld er um Scarab, then rush to save Will, and then save his friend Danny. I like the eps that make you think and sit at the edge of your seat guessing what will happen. Super Will was so fake looking and that was just pathethic. I also hated the CGI of stretch man, it looked so fake. Well Sanctuary is not exactly getting the big bucks to fund these kind of scenes. Also, the Scarabs were a rip-off of Goa'ulds from SG-1. The best part of this ep was Helen and her father. So overall not a good ep, but it could of been a lot worse. After an amazing episode last week the show just took a 180 degrees turn.



All in all, an ok episode. But of course it may have suffered by comparison coming right after the awesome Requiem.

Let me make a VERY important point about the bolded parts. As I already told Sally, :) You know what I love? I've read reviews about the episode on GW and from other boards, and a lot of them say the same thing, actually they say 3 things:

1. After seeing the masterpiece episode Requiem :samanime20:, they knew the next episode wouldn't be as good, and it'd be REALLY tough to beat.

2. Requiem raised the "expectations bar" with it's awesome acting and direction.

3. Requiem was a solid, and damn fine episode, which the series needs more of :).

Requiem also got a lot of great fan and critic reviews, and they were mostly on Amanda's performance. So basically their saying they want more Helen :), and what's even better is that, if a large number of people consider Requiem as the best episode of the season, their saying they consider a Helen centred episode the best of the season ;).
Amanda/Helen rules http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp337/Rocky89_03/Helen_claps.gif

Btw Sally, I know how you feel, when Requiem aired, I turned off the phones and what not, made sure I had perfect picture and sound on my TV, and I kept thinking "If something happpens that takes my attention away from the episode, there's gonna be hell to pay." *Sinister laugh* HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA


This episode had a lot of potential but I don't like the direction it is taking with Will. I'm half way into it right now. I like the Magnus storyline but not so much with Will.

I don't know much about the direction, but I've read that a few people are unhappy with it, I think it would have been better if MW directed it. I trust him as a director, but I trust Amanda WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more as both an actress and a person. Without her, this episode wouldn't have been as good, she saved it :sam59:.


I'm not sure I like this episode, I'll have to watch it again when I have more time and decide exactly what I do and don't like. I knew going in that I wouldn't like the fight element but that's just me. I'm not sure I like the concept of Gregory Magnus being alive though I did enjoy watching Helen's and Ashley's reaction to him.

Like you and Sally, I'm not sure if I like Helen's dad alive either, I mean, I'm happy she's not so alone anymore, but.... I don't know.

Rocky89
December 15th, 2008, 09:07 PM
i think it would have been a bigger impact if will just looked like himself, but with super strength powers. maybe his face a bit deformed like his friend, but not the incredible hulk look.

so after thinking this ep through, and talking about it with my mom, it's two main things i didn't enjoy about this episode. 1, will turning into that muscle creature, and 2, helen's dad not aging like her.

what i did enjoy were the opening sequence, and the helen/father dialog and scenes.

and boy... this might not be nice, but boy did i see just how much better amanda is as an actor than everyone else in this episode. sorry everyone else


sally :)


that was the high point, finding out more about helen

I agree with you two, while I still enjoyed Will's scenes and his story, the main thing that I wanted was more Helen backstory, and I got that ;). Along with these AMAZING pics:

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0006.jpg
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0007.jpg
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0011.jpg
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0326.jpg
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0328.jpg
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0329.jpg
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0350.jpg
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0351.jpg
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0352.jpg
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0364.jpg
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0365.jpg
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0366.jpg
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww118/Jumper_One1/s1/110%20Warriors/Warriors0378.jpg

Wow :cameron08:.

Celandine
December 15th, 2008, 10:15 PM
i've got a couple of questions (that might be answered on a second viewing): why did the cabal want zimmerman, and was helen's dad put in that location so he'd be picked up by magnus' gang and brought back to the sanctuary?


sally :)

My guess is that they considered any 'troublemaker' prime material for being changed into an abnormal and used for fighting. Kept them nice and quiet and their little sting still secret. Perhaps they never had a woman inquiring after them so maybe didnt know what to do with Ashley. I dunno.

Mousie
December 16th, 2008, 02:47 AM
Ohhh, what has Gregory done to the Sanctuary. Something to the computers? So the Cabal can see what they are doing, or drop the security systems so they can get in later?

I too thought it looked like Gregory had been frozen.

RealmOfX
December 16th, 2008, 03:03 AM
You missed my point, these people had written Stargate eps so it would seem like they are taking something they've written before, but whatever. The show has Stargate written all over it, and I was hoping for something totally different, which has been, up until this episode. I thought the Scarabs were just a lousy touch.



As per this episode folks here are right. It was not good. Last week's was Superb. Yes, I am always going to favor Stargate, BSG, Eureka, and etc to this show because I put those shows before this one. There is nothing wrong with that.

No, I didn't miss your point. I got it. I just don't agree with it and I thought I explained quite clearly why.

You say it's OK to take common elements and put your own spin on it but then you say in essence that the Sanctuary people can't do that. I find that quite an unreasonable position. If everyone took such superficial elements and said that another show can't/shouldn't use them then no new shows would exist because at the conceptual level, most elements have been used before. It is this aspect of complaining about superficial connections to other shows that I am complaining about. That's the reason for my last sarcastic comment - to highlight that if you applied that reasoning at such a superficial level then 90% of Stargate shouldn't have been made.

I'd also like to clarify that the people who wrote this episode haven't written for Stargate so they are not taking something that they have written before. Oh wait, Sam Egan wrote Touchstone but that didn't have the Goa'uld in it. However both are genre writers and so it's possible that they have written similar things as we are talking about a superficial element.

I've got no problem with anyone favouring another show (my fave is Babylon 5) and I didn't say that there was anything wrong with that but I do find it a tad annoying when people let their faves enter into a discussion about another show and not display the same, shall we say, objectivity about both shows. In this case Damian Kindler is the only permanent writer from Stargate and, according to you, he's (and by extension all other writers for Sanctuary) not allowed to use any concepts used before by Stargate but it's OK that Stargate writers have done that same thing.



So, on to a few more of my thoughts on this episode.

I personally thought that the beetles were not a very well thought out device (or maybe it was and it just wasn't translated to the screen very well) and I did see that it was a tad reminiscent of the Goua'uld and the X-Files and countless other shows/movies/stories but only a tad. I don't think that they showed how the control of the people/abnormals was given to the handlers. Clearly the beetles took the control away from the hosts but they were sadly lacking in explaining how the control was passed to the Cabal minions. I'm more of a mind with EH-T and probably would have liked the control aspect be explained via drugs and/or brain washing because the beetle thing just didn't grab me. Maybe they didn't want to take the drug route because they were already using drugs to effect the genetic changes, who knows? Maybe we'll get some insight with the DVD commentaries next year.

Another aspect I'm not liking is that Gregory Magnus is alive (either him or a clone but if it's a clone then how did he get Gregory's memories?), even though it made for a few great character scenes. I've only watched it once but this is bugging me and I'll probably have to watch it again several times to coherently sort out why.

I also wasn't fond of the Will gets captured again by going off alone bit and then being made into an abnormal that looked suspiciously like Lou Ferrigno's Hulk and called "Boy Man". :rolleyes: But to be honest my personal distaste for the fighting involved could be affecting how I saw this part of the storyline.

So I've gotten a few of my dislikes out of the way, now for what I did like - the character moments :D

Starting with the opening scene, I loved that! A touch of eccentricity and we get to know our characters a little more.
Ashley's and Helen's reaction to Gregory.
Henry running into the fight ring to help Will.
An appearance of KickA$$!Helen. Loved how she handled the fight boss - kick the gun out of his hand, knock him down, keep him down with a stilleto in his throat (shades of Purdey there ;) ) and deliver your ultimatum. Loved it!

I'm still wondering about what the asset was that Gregory said was in place. We'll probably find out in future episodes when it'll cause problems for the Sanctuary.



Unfortunately, at the moment, this ep will be one of the lower ranked ones for me.

RealmOfX
December 16th, 2008, 03:13 AM
Ohhh, what has Gregory done to the Sanctuary. Something to the computers? So the Cabal can see what they are doing, or drop the security systems so they can get in later?

I too thought it looked like Gregory had been frozen.

Yeah, I'm wondering what he put in place too.

Actually, I thought it looked like gel, but I could be wrong as my eyesight isn't good anymore.

I really have to find some time to watch this again but things are a bit hectic with the approach of Christmas.

Chelle DB
December 16th, 2008, 03:27 AM
I don't like this ep because of these fight scenes- they were brutal and awful. The rest part of movie was great, Ashley plays excellent :)
Same here...and I too actually enjoyed Ashley in this ep! :)


I had a problem with the bug being too close to the whole "snake in the head" thing.
Ditto on that one. BUt it was so cool...I jumped in my chair at one point...scared the living daylights out of Tom!:P
I do like it that the leader of the Cabal is a woman. Love the strong roles for women in this show.
See, I don't like that the leader is a woman...I don't know why...I think for me it's a case of it makes her look like a beetch! I love strong roles for women but not roles that make them look like first class dogs! Sorry, but that's just my feelings on it! :O

I just had a horrible thought about the lady in charge of this project.
I have nothing to base this on, but since we know nothing of this person's life, it is possible (and would be a major 'jump the shark' event!) that the 'Cabal woman' is
HELLEN'S MOTHER!!!
I pray that I am wrong. (if this was ST, then she would be future Ashley ;) )
OMG...no way! If they go down that path then I don't think I'd watch the show with the same kind of respect. That's just taking it all way way way over the top!
I seriously doubt that will be the case. I seriously hope that's not the case!

i've got a couple of questions (that might be answered on a second viewing): why did the cabal want zimmerman, and was helen's dad put in that location so he'd be picked up by magnus' gang and brought back to the sanctuary?
sally :)
I was thinking the same thing Sally.
My thoughts about Gregory are that he may have planted something there. He was meant to be a mole for the Cabal and maybe he put something there that won't be discovered til the next two eps. I'm pretty sure he was in the right spot at the right time to be found by Helen and the gang and then taken back to the Sanctuary.
As for Will...I have no idea why they wanted him...I mean if it was because he was snooping around then why didn't they take Ashley too? Oh hey...that would have been cool...abnormal Ash!! Bulked up Ash!!! How bizarre!:P:P

Mousie
December 16th, 2008, 04:23 AM
Maybe they took Will because it was just an opportunity to get one over on Helen, rather than trying to go for her directly yet. Weaken the queen by taking the knights out first kind of thing.

RealmOfX
December 16th, 2008, 04:30 AM
Maybe they took Will because it was just an opportunity to get one over on Helen, rather than trying to go for her directly yet. Weaken the queen by taking the knights out first kind of thing.

That's a good thought. It would also explain why they didn't take Ashley because they knew it would precipitate extreme action on Helen's part and they weren't ready for that kind of confrontation.

I'm looking forward to the final 2 episodes of the season. Pity there's only 3 eps left then we have to wait for more :(

AvatarIII
December 16th, 2008, 04:49 AM
i just assumed they took will because he was snooping, alone, and available. i did question why they didn't just bug him and send him back to sanctuary though, i guess becuase old man magnus was already there.

Mousie
December 16th, 2008, 04:52 AM
That's a good thought. It would also explain why they didn't take Ashley because they knew it would precipitate extreme action on Helen's part and they weren't ready for that kind of confrontation.

I'm looking forward to the final 2 episodes of the season. Pity there's only 3 eps left then we have to wait for more :(

That's what I was thinking re Ashley, taking her would mean Helen would probably declare war on them.

Rocky89
December 16th, 2008, 07:26 AM
I just had a horrible thought about the lady in charge of this project.

I have nothing to base this on, but since we know nothing of this person's life, it is possible (and would be a major 'jump the shark' event!) that the 'Cabal woman' is

HELLEN'S MOTHER!!!

I pray that I am wrong. (if this was ST, then she would be future Ashley ;) )

:samanime24::samanime24::samanime24: OMG could you imagine?

jckfan55
December 16th, 2008, 01:56 PM
I'm looking forward to the final 2 episodes of the season. Pity there's only 3 eps left then we have to wait for more :(

:eek: You just had to remind me. I've been in denial. :D

Amalthea
December 16th, 2008, 06:07 PM
I just had a horrible thought about the lady in charge of this project.

I have nothing to base this on, but since we know nothing of this person's life, it is possible (and would be a major 'jump the shark' event!) that the 'Cabal woman' is

HELLEN'S MOTHER!!!

I pray that I am wrong. (if this was ST, then she would be future Ashley ;) )

*falls over and dies* <--- that's what would happen to me were that so. LOL

rderoch
December 16th, 2008, 07:42 PM
Ya know, in the last two eps, Helen has moved VERY quickly and seems to be quite strong. If you look at the scenes where she took the gun from Will and when she put down the fight boss, her movements are extremely fast. Do you think this is the other ability that she received from the vamp blood, or have we not seen her other ability yet?

Skydiver
December 16th, 2008, 07:44 PM
or maybe that's what ash has inherited from her mom...agility and dexterity

tagger
December 16th, 2008, 08:04 PM
Chemically enhanced super soldiers... sounds familiar. Baseball players, sprinters, cyclists, lifters, runners, all those athletes who doped themselves into competitive glory rather than really earning it. :mad: *cough* What? You thought I meant the stargate super soldier? ;)
Henry: biceps! :)
Too many bugs in the neck/brain for me: goauld, deep sea parasite, scarabs... all invading the brain and or neck and altering behavior.
I like altered behavior in a character, trying to figure out which brain structure is diseased, and unusual behavior that is quickly reversed is good for stories, but couldn't there be other options?



Please note that I'm not picking on you but I guess I've heard or read something like this one too many times...
It wasn't an homage to Stargate. It wasn't an homage to anything but rather something to do with human physiology and is something that has cropped up in science fiction since people started writing it.
It's a pet peeve of mine recently about the number of younger people whinging about X being done in a previous recent program and therefore it belongs to that program and shouldn't be used in another. Lots of concepts were used in Stargate that had been used before, including this concept, and they'll be used again in the future. Get used to it. So long as it is only an element at a conceptual level and the writer puts their own spin on it then they aren't copying your favourite program from the 1990's or my favourite program from the 1960's or my favourite story from the 1800's or my Dad's favourite movie from the 1940's. I'd start worrying when they start mirroring reams of dialogue, then it becomes a ripoff.
Sorry for the venting, it's not directed at you it's just a pet peeve of mine and the straw that broke the camel's back.

The scarabs were a ripoff of the Goa'uld?!? Really??
Let's see, on the one hand you have a sentient but parasitic being hellbent on galactic domination that use other beings as hosts and take control of them. They steal everything, enslave as many populations as they can and are a quite despotic space faring race at war with themselves and everyone else in various galaxies. They enter the host body by chewing a way in and wrap themselves around the brain stem.
On the other hand you have an earth bound secret organisation that is experimenting with genetic alteration and use a beetle to gain control over humans they have gentically altered possibly for the use in something called "the cleansing". The beetles are inserted surgically at the back of the neck.
Gee they don't sound all that similar to me. Maybe, just maybe, someone actually took some relatively common concepts like taking control of a human via another organism and the organism attaching itself to the human brain or spine then put teir own spin on it. That was what you were asking for wasn't it??
As for the next ep I haven't seen the preview so I can't comment but as for the Stargate replicators - yep it was done before at the conceptual level. Does that mean Stargate shouldn't have used it????
Oh Noes!! Stargate is just one long ripoff of every other sci fi show (and a few other genres to boot)!! Oh Noes!
[/sarcasm]

Thank you for calling me a "younger people" hehe. :D I'll take what I can get!! :D

My comment on the sameness factor was just that. I went to bed after this episode, thinking about it, wondering, figuring things out, etc...like I usually do after watching a TV episode. Sanctuary is the only TV episode I try to catch every week, it is hard with my work and being a Mommy. Still, I want to support the show.

Without reading anything, no other opinions, no other reading of other threads (those that apparently irritate you), I thought to myself "there are too many stories of parasites in the brain/ neck, I wish they would come up with some other plot device".

I realize that essentially there is nothing new under the sun. I think I have read every classic scifi novel there is, many times. Still, I never considered the episode a "rip off" of some other idea, I just got tired of the same general parasite idea being used over and over.

I have a right to my opinion and my feelings.

Additionally, the warrior fighters are not technically "abnormal". They are not contributing to the genetic furtherance of the human race, which seems to be the underlying premise of "abnormals". They are engineered fighters, not a result of genetic advancement, but of environmental deprivation and chemical violence.. Yes, they are abnormal compared to regular, kind humans, but not a furtherance of human genetic inheritance. They are a combo of a scarab infecting the central nervous system, and, some enhancement termed "juice". Is "juice" a chemical or genetic enhancer of strength and agression?

I watch Stargate AND Sanctuary, so seeing the repetitions are inevitable, that's all.

My opinion does not make me a bad person, sarcasm is not necessary in replying to my post or other posts, and I have a right to feel the way I feel.

Oh NOES!!! Oh Noes.

How horrible.

Chelle DB
December 16th, 2008, 11:28 PM
Maybe they took Will because it was just an opportunity to get one over on Helen, rather than trying to go for her directly yet. Weaken the queen by taking the knights out first kind of thing.

That's a good thought. It would also explain why they didn't take Ashley because they knew it would precipitate extreme action on Helen's part and they weren't ready for that kind of confrontation.

That is a good thought...clearly those involved know who Helen is...I mean that guy saw her straight away and was busting to get out...so Helen is the biggest threat and Ashley is her Achilles heal and Will is the next on the ladder...so better to hit at something lower first then strike at the heart later.
Wow...it really opens up options in which way this could be played out.

I'm looking forward to the final 2 episodes of the season. Pity there's only 3 eps left then we have to wait for more :(
I wonder when season two will start airing?? Is it too soon to start counting?? :P

AvatarIII
December 17th, 2008, 04:27 AM
Ya know, in the last two eps, Helen has moved VERY quickly and seems to be quite strong. If you look at the scenes where she took the gun from Will and when she put down the fight boss, her movements are extremely fast. Do you think this is the other ability that she received from the vamp blood, or have we not seen her other ability yet?

i agree. druitt said her ability is the most simple and elegant of them all. i assume they all got longevity, helen just got all the pro's and none of the cons.
you have smart guy
light sensitive guy,
vampire teeth and hunger guy
teleporting guy
and strong fast girl

and assuming vampires are smart, light sensitive, have teeth and a hunger, can teleport, and are strong and fast, the abilities are well spread.

Mousie
December 17th, 2008, 05:04 AM
That is a good thought...clearly those involved know who Helen is...I mean that guy saw her straight away and was busting to get out...so Helen is the biggest threat and Ashley is her Achilles heal and Will is the next on the ladder...so better to hit at something lower first then strike at the heart later.
Wow...it really opens up options in which way this could be played out.


It's good to see that they are wary of Helen though, she's not just a blip on their radar, they do seem to fear her. Fight guy certainly was! He clocked her quickly!

I know the impression is that Helen is very rich, and she does have other Sanctuaries around the world, and probably has a lot of contacts in the authorities and business comunity but the Cabal seem to be more deeply dug in.

Kratos_Goauld_of_War
December 17th, 2008, 07:55 AM
So i just watched this episode. Just now. See we here in the central Massachusetts area got hit with a bizarre ice storm and knocked power out in most of the area. So of course this had to happen on a Friday. Grrrrrr.


Anyway, I wasn't expecting to be wowed by this episode because of how amazing Requiem was. If every episode was like that our brains would explode from pure awesomeness.

Overall I liked it. I think, honestly, the Will subplot was a little forced and the muscles looked just super ridiculous. I like that we got to learn more about Helen's past. I especially liked the Beatles reference because they are my all time favorite band. I'm actually listening to Sgt. Pepper as I write this. It's my second favorite Beatles record, after Abbey Road. I'm gonna say it was George she watched the sun rise with. He was far more into the spiritual things than the other 3.

The abnormal fight club was interesting as a testing ground for the Kabal's formula but it seemed kind of odd. I would have thought they would be more discrete about things. Kidnapping Will was a surefire way to get caught and shut down. As we saw when Helen knocked the co-odinator around like a ragdoll. My my ain't she strong...

I like the Helen's father pieces. I've said before I like character driven parts, which is why I love Requiem so much. I believe that Daddy Magus was frozen and the Kabal found him, bugged him, and stole his ideas and then cast him aside to catch Helen or one of her associates. When he said "the asset is in place" I'm assuming he meant Will had be successfully lured into getting caught.

Again, I don't think they needed to suddenlt make Will into the Hulk. It was comical and, to me, just pulled me right out of the story in those scenes. I get that they were goin for getting results as fast as they could but if Will had bulked up that fast in real life he'd be a little awkward because of all of the weight he's suddenly carrying. His body wouldn't accept that so easily. The pain of growing muscle that fast would keep him out for quite sometime. Anyone that works out knows how sore you get after a workout. To suddenly have at least 100 pounds of muscle thrown onto your frame would be an awful strain for a person's body. There's no way he'd be fighting so soon after that type of transformation. I'll suspend my disbelief only so far. Of course more Will in agonizing pain would have solved that annoyance i suppose.

Then again, it's just a show. I should really just relax.

I really liked that Henry stopped Will. I thought that was a really good scene.

So overall good, but not great. It sets up some interesting plots for the future.

Tittamiire
December 17th, 2008, 10:43 AM
I watched this Monday and have mulled over it for a few days to let it settle in.

Will's muscles were bizarre. I can't help feeling that it would have been more effective that he'd been strong without the foam muscles, mostly because I was struggling to take him seriously with them. He might also have been more 'lost' if he'd not changed physically, but was still fighting like he did.

Loving Henry and the bit at the end when he ran across to Will was awesome.

The whole thing with Helen's Dad was thought provoking. I wasn't convinced that she'd have acceptated him so quickly. I'd have expected her to be more suspicious as much as she wanted to see her Dad again.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this episode slots into the overall arc for the show/season, but I didn't enjoy it so much as a stand alone.

jckfan55
December 17th, 2008, 12:50 PM
I watched this Monday and have mulled over it for a few days to let it settle in.

Will's muscles were bizarre. I can't help feeling that it would have been more effective that he'd been strong without the foam muscles, mostly because I was struggling to take him seriously with them. He might also have been more 'lost' if he'd not changed physically, but was still fighting like he did.

Yeah, I think the foam muscles :D detracted from what was trying to be a serious point at the end. How much was Will and how much was b/c of the "treatment."
But with the "abnormal juice" they were giving him and with what happened to others I can see why they wanted major, visible physical changes on Will. Too bad it became unintentionally funny to look at.

majorsal
December 17th, 2008, 07:30 PM
I wonder when season two will start airing?? Is it too soon to start counting?? :P

i'll start a countdown as soon as we hear when s2 starts! :p

majorsal
December 17th, 2008, 10:13 PM
i rewatched the ep -with fastforwarding through the will/fight stuff :p- and have two observations to make.

1- amanda's voice was a bit horsey in a couple of scenes (one with her dad). maybe she fought the cold off? :p

2- when helen was telling her dad who he was, she said, 'your wife was patricia heathering'. helen's mom?

jasminaGo
December 18th, 2008, 12:16 AM
i rewatched the ep -with fastforwarding through the will/fight stuff :p- and have two observations to make.

1- amanda's voice was a bit horsey in a couple of scenes (one with her dad). maybe she fought the cold off? :p

2- when helen was telling her dad who he was, she said, 'your wife was patricia heathering'. helen's mom?

1. I didn't notice. I'll re-watch it when I have the chance.

2. Probably...



And for those interested, the caps from this ep

10 Warriors.zip (http://www.4shared.com/file/76068701/53450a/10_Warriors.html)

atlantis_babe34
December 18th, 2008, 12:36 AM
I always thought since the five when Druitt said She had the most Elegant of them all... she has to have some sort of hidden "power". IMO her Longtivity is Genetic. don't ask me why i just have a feeling. I don't think it has anything to do with the Pure blood, I hope we get to see something in the season Final:D.

Hulk!Will!!!

Chelle DB
December 18th, 2008, 03:01 AM
Ya know, in the last two eps, Helen has moved VERY quickly and seems to be quite strong. If you look at the scenes where she took the gun from Will and when she put down the fight boss, her movements are extremely fast. Do you think this is the other ability that she received from the vamp blood, or have we not seen her other ability yet?

or maybe that's what ash has inherited from her mom...agility and dexterity

i agree. druitt said her ability is the most simple and elegant of them all. i assume they all got longevity, helen just got all the pro's and none of the cons.
This is what I love about these discussion...I love the who's, what's where's and when's!
I have to agree with AvatarIII...I think they all got the longevity curse and Helen has something else...and I am inclined to believe it is speed and agility!
And like Sky, I think Ashley has those abilities from her mother and the speed thing maybe even more so from her father.
Sorry atlantis_babe, I don't believe it to be genetic...not at this point in time anyways! :)

i rewatched the ep -with fastforwarding through the will/fight stuff :p- and have two observations to make.

1- amanda's voice was a bit horsey in a couple of scenes (one with her dad). maybe she fought the cold off? :p

2- when helen was telling her dad who he was, she said, 'your wife was patricia heathering'. helen's mom?
I have no doubt that Patricia was/is Helen's mother...is there any real history on this name??

How many more famous people do you think Helen knows?
I hope they don't go overboard with the famous names thing...we've already got Gershwin, Pasteur, and several presidents...and one of the Beatles...still think it's John:P...so who else is she associated with from the past and from the present?

Tittamiire
December 18th, 2008, 03:04 AM
Yeah, I think the foam muscles :D detracted from what was trying to be a serious point at the end. How much was Will and how much was b/c of the "treatment."
But with the "abnormal juice" they were giving him and with what happened to others I can see why they wanted major, visible physical changes on Will. Too bad it became unintentionally funny to look at.

Exactly! They were too silly...

Mousie
December 18th, 2008, 03:13 AM
Maybe that's why Helen's dad became involved with investigating abnormals in the first place, maybe Helen showed signs of being different somehow when she was born and he wanted to investigate it for her sake, to help her.

Chelle DB
December 18th, 2008, 03:16 AM
Ok...so I'm just re watching and Amanda does sound like she's a bit nasally...maybe she did have a cold at the time. Listen to when she's explaining to Will and Ashley about what her father created.
But what I liked was that Helen said that Gregory disappeared on an expedition to Mecca...so maybe he did get lost and was found frozen...hence the ice and if you look at his clothes he's wearing...they look old...so my theory that he was cloned is slowly going out the window...I think Gregory Magnus was lost and frozen and recovered by the Cabal.
What I didn't like was that he created genetic engineering...he created an abnormal...that just doesn't sit well with me. Now if the abnormals are naturally occurring genetic faults or what not, that's one thing, but to create something like what Gregory Magnus did...well that's just screwing with nature.
Oh and the necklace she's often seen wearing...I love it!! I wonder if it has any significance to anything...or anyone?

atlantis_babe34
December 18th, 2008, 03:17 AM
Thats a good point! I never thoguht about it that way. I wanna know more about her Mother.

Chelle DB
December 18th, 2008, 03:21 AM
Did Gregory say "the acid is in place"??...I wonder what that means exactly??

Chelle DB
December 18th, 2008, 03:36 AM
Ok...so Gregory says he wanted to one day come back and help protect her from her enemies...not to wind up helping them...and then he promises that he'll never be far...awww....and she's all teared up!!
So...did he have himself frozen? Was it a deliberate act? Or was it accidental?
Coz if he planned on coming back one day...what does that mean?
Oh boy...this is just getting more confusing and fun!!! :D

Mousie
December 18th, 2008, 04:13 AM
Ok...so I'm just re watching and Amanda does sound like she's a bit nasally...maybe she did have a cold at the time. Listen to when she's explaining to Will and Ashley about what her father created.
But what I liked was that Helen said that Gregory disappeared on an expedition to Mecca...so maybe he did get lost and was found frozen...hence the ice and if you look at his clothes he's wearing...they look old...so my theory that he was cloned is slowly going out the window...I think Gregory Magnus was lost and frozen and recovered by the Cabal.
What I didn't like was that he created genetic engineering...he created an abnormal...that just doesn't sit well with me. Now if the abnormals are naturally occurring genetic faults or what not, that's one thing, but to create something like what Gregory Magnus did...well that's just screwing with nature.
Oh and the necklace she's often seen wearing...I love it!! I wonder if it has any significance to anything...or anyone?

However that flies in the face of establised info though, i.e. the Morrigan. Where they not supposed to have been around since the time of King Arthur? If that is true, Abnormals did exist before Gregory started experimenting or he's really a heck of a lot older than Helen!


Did Gregory say "the acid is in place"??...I wonder what that means exactly??

It was 'the asset is in place" In which case has he planted something in the Sanctuary or as others have suggested it might be a reference to Will leaving for the rendevous/being kidnapped.

atlantis_babe34
December 18th, 2008, 04:55 AM
i didn't even catch that line i know he said somethingw as in place but i can't remember what it was.

Skydiver
December 18th, 2008, 05:37 AM
It was 'the asset is in place" In which case has he planted something in the Sanctuary or as others have suggested it might be a reference to Will leaving for the rendevous/being kidnapped.

or he is the asset and it was his way of saying 'i'm in and they accept me'

Tittamiire
December 18th, 2008, 06:30 AM
I assumed her was referring to himself as the asset rather than anything else.

rderoch
December 18th, 2008, 06:36 PM
Did Gregory say "the acid is in place"??...I wonder what that means exactly??

Asset. Though, if the Beatles were in his past, maybe it WAS acid. ;)

Chelle DB
December 18th, 2008, 07:51 PM
However that flies in the face of establised info though, i.e. the Morrigan. Where they not supposed to have been around since the time of King Arthur? If that is true, Abnormals did exist before Gregory started experimenting or he's really a heck of a lot older than Helen!
I'm not sure what you mean? I was just referring to what Helen said regarding Gregory creating the abnormal and saying "it was in fact the birth of genetic engineering"...I have no doubt that abnormals existed before Gregory started his experiments...but I would hazard a guess that these weren't specifically genetically altered humans...however having just read that out aloud, I do recall the Morrigan being created by Merlin???...so I guess they are altered abnormals...but then I'm thinking that what Gregory did may have been different from what Merlin did...maybe...I dunno..you're confusing me!!! :P:P

Asset. Though, if the Beatles were in his past, maybe it WAS acid. ;)
:lol:

tagger
December 18th, 2008, 09:25 PM
Additionally, the warrior fighters are not technically "abnormal". They are not contributing to the genetic furtherance of the human race, which seems to be the underlying premise of "abnormals". They are engineered fighters, not a result of genetic advancement, but of environmental deprivation and chemical violence.. Yes, they are abnormal compared to regular, kind humans, but not a furtherance of human genetic inheritance. They are a combo of a scarab infecting the central nervous system, and, some enhancement termed "juice". Is "juice" a chemical or genetic enhancer of strength and agression?



What I didn't like was that he created genetic engineering...he created an abnormal...that just doesn't sit well with me. Now if the abnormals are naturally occurring genetic faults or what not, that's one thing, but to create something like what Gregory Magnus did...well that's just screwing with nature.


Yup, I agree as I said initially. :)

Technically the "abnormals" introduced in this episode do not follow the entire Sanctuary premise of abnormals.

"Warriors" do not represent a genetic advancement of human evolution.

They are artificially created.

Mousie
December 19th, 2008, 02:25 AM
I'm not sure what you mean? I was just referring to what Helen said regarding Gregory creating the abnormal and saying "it was in fact the birth of genetic engineering"...I have no doubt that abnormals existed before Gregory started his experiments...but I would hazard a guess that these weren't specifically genetically altered humans...however having just read that out aloud, I do recall the Morrigan being created by Merlin???...so I guess they are altered abnormals...but then I'm thinking that what Gregory did may have been different from what Merlin did...maybe...I dunno..you're confusing me!!! :P:P

:lol:

Apologies, I think I'm confusing myself and misread what you said! Must concentrate more :cameron:

Matt G
December 19th, 2008, 02:58 PM
1. "You were born in Devonshire". I snorted at that one, I live in "Devon" so you can imagine what names I was calling TPTB!

2. Scarab yeah, got Goa'uld vibes from that.

3. Generally interesting set up.

4. Will's morph was slightly dodgy and not good strategy on the part of the Cabal. Better off using posessed-Will as their inside man.

Decent, but a step down from Requiem

Ksya
June 9th, 2009, 04:45 PM
Okay, Will looked like he was wearing a foam, skin-colored, kid's Hulk costume. :S

RealmOfX
September 11th, 2009, 01:04 AM
I've just been listening to the commentaries on the S1 DVDs and Sam Egan confirmed that in that flashback of Charlie/Gregory it is ice that we see on his hand.

suse
September 21st, 2009, 07:23 AM
So Dad was on ice for over a century?

Oy ve. I really want to know if this ep was requested by Syfy to tie-in some wrestling. I still need to listen to the commentary. Maybe tonight, while cleaning. With pauses to watch the Gregory bits.

AtlantisRules!!!
September 24th, 2009, 02:23 PM
Currently my least favorite ep of Sanctuary.

Tachyon
February 15th, 2010, 09:04 PM
Hmmm.... I didn't like this episode a lot. Helen's dad coming in the picture was a nice aspect of the episode, but otherwise this somewhat bored me. So this is the weakest episode for me so far.

Rose "Snapjinx" McKnight
February 16th, 2010, 12:16 PM
This episode kinda sucked.

It really wouldn't have been so bad if not for the god-awful foam muscle suit they put Robin in. I know the budget wasn't that great, but couldn't some of it have been CG? Or just make him a super-crazy good fighter instead of an Arnold Schwarzenegger clone.

:comeon:

But yeah, every time I see (or even think of) the scene where Will wakes up and asks what he looks like and the dude goes, "Like a god!!" I just about die laughing. And not in a good way.

I think they could've written a better way for Gregory Magnus to come in.
Speaking of, does anyone know if he's due to return in the third season? They just kind of left that storyline wide open...

kivawolfspeaker
February 16th, 2010, 01:19 PM
Don't know about Gregory Magnus, but I'd love to see Jim Brynes and Peter Wingfield work together again!

Tachyon
February 16th, 2010, 09:04 PM
This episode kinda sucked.

It really wouldn't have been so bad if not for the god-awful foam muscle suit they put Robin in. I know the budget wasn't that great, but couldn't some of it have been CG? Or just make him a super-crazy good fighter instead of an Arnold Schwarzenegger clone.

:comeon:

But yeah, every time I see (or even think of) the scene where Will wakes up and asks what he looks like and the dude goes, "Like a god!!" I just about die laughing. And not in a good way.

I think they could've written a better way for Gregory Magnus to come in.
Speaking of, does anyone know if he's due to return in the third season? They just kind of left that storyline wide open...

This pretty much sums it up for me as well. The foam muscle suit was pretty awful...

selene0789
September 22nd, 2011, 01:17 PM
It was a rather slow episode, I'll admit. I absolutely loved the interaction between Magnus and her Dad, even though I was ticked he left at the end. He made her cry! >:(

And what's sad is that in the fight ring parts of the episode, the part that sticks out the most in my mind is that Magnus takes down the ringmaster in a pair of really sexy stilettos. and I'm sitting there thinking "That guy better be careful. Wouldn't take much for that spiky heel to pierce his trachea."

And I agree about the cheezy hulk out suit Will wore. I kept expecting to see the zipper down the back, like in the old Lost in Space costumes. But then, I like cheese and camp, so you'd think this ep would do more for me than it did... Oh well. I always give tv shows one episode per season that can be rather lackluster, so long as the other eps all blow my mind. Sanctuary still passes that little test :)

Skydiver
August 8th, 2012, 07:02 PM
Warriors

not one of my favorites. I'm sorry, i really don't like fight club episodes, and will's muscle shirt was just so cheesy

that said, in hind sight we can know that it was set up for the finale, the super warriors, the cabal doing human experiments, mention of the cleansing (ala nazi 'final solution')

we start out with more shamless name dropping. Damian and amanda musta had fun coming up with all the notables for helen to run across. We also know that helen is no nun - she mentions either here or requiem about her lovers - might have been requiem.

we see more recycled webbie footage and we get an intro of gregory.

the bug, very goauldish.

All in all, the biggest thing about this episode was the b story, gregory and the cabal and the super warriors.

JanSam
August 9th, 2012, 05:50 PM
This one is my least favorite. I struggle to watch it. I'll agree that the Gregory/Cabal storyline was the best thing in this episode.

Skydiver
August 10th, 2012, 03:49 AM
I don't think i ever listened to the commentary to it, i just couldn't stand to watch it again.

Will the Whumping Boy - although to be fair I'd hate the story no matter who the character is.

jckfan55
August 10th, 2012, 11:28 AM
Yeah, the Gregory/Magnus part is the only part that interests me. Maybe the idea of the cabal testing stuff on humans would have been ok w/out the cheesy fight stuff. Maybe not.

Skydiver
August 10th, 2012, 06:09 PM
maybe, instead of will being changed, have him be the equivalent of a chase dog.....little dog that they use in dog races to train the big ones. Or have him find it and sneak in only to get caught or something.

just doesn't make sense that the cabal would get in helen's face that way.