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Ninjadoom
November 23rd, 2008, 10:12 AM
Anyone else think that the CG images of the building everyone was in was really bad? I mean I've seen so much better stuff in all the other episodes but recently the CG stuff in Atlantis has been going downhill, especially when they try to do images of a town or building or something.

supersoldier34
November 23rd, 2008, 10:56 AM
It was bad. Game engines look better than that.

Briangate78
November 23rd, 2008, 11:27 AM
Like I said, the budget for this episode was used up on Keller's Boots. So they had to cut some corners in the actors and Visual effects budget. ;)

Hermiiod
November 23rd, 2008, 11:43 AM
I concur

airrick
November 23rd, 2008, 01:14 PM
I said the same thing.. I was like.. um.. that building looks cheaply generated

jelgate
November 23rd, 2008, 01:23 PM
Are you guys mad? I have never seen such great CGI in my whole life:P

It happens. Their are only some VHX guys and some scenes are more important then other

prion
November 23rd, 2008, 02:08 PM
Anyone else think that the CG images of the building everyone was in was really bad? I mean I've seen so much better stuff in all the other episodes but recently the CG stuff in Atlantis has been going downhill, especially when they try to do images of a town or building or something.


the tornadoes, alas, looked as bad as those awful CGIed dinos on various SciFi saturday night movies... not to mention the tornadoes were highly selective in not touching the building they were incredibly close to....

AlphaWox
November 23rd, 2008, 04:39 PM
It was lousy... I wonder why they didn't find some stock footage of something out in Nevada to film and drop it in. They did go on a road trip, and I don't recall any dialogue over top of the building shots.

jenks
November 23rd, 2008, 05:03 PM
I'd agree the CG for the building in this episode was crap, but I wouldn't agree that he CG in general has been going down in quality, is definitely been rising IMO.

Hermiiod
November 23rd, 2008, 07:32 PM
Their entire budget went to hiring Bill Nye and (as Briangate78 said) Keller's boots. ;)

Bobby
November 23rd, 2008, 09:13 PM
the worst CGI i have seen for a while!

Flyboy
November 24th, 2008, 02:19 AM
Mind you, I didn't think the ships in First Contact or Lost Tribe were that good either.

Skydiver
November 24th, 2008, 04:35 AM
yeha, they were very poorly done. better to have shot nothing or to grab some picture off a stock photo site than to use bad cgi like that.

jenks
November 24th, 2008, 08:10 AM
Mind you, I didn't think the ships in First Contact or Lost Tribe were that good either.

They weren't, I think they use a different vendor for the mid season episodes, the CG was mostly poor in BAMSR too.

unluckynumber11
November 24th, 2008, 08:52 AM
They weren't, I think they use a different vendor for the mid season episodes, the CG was mostly poor in BAMSR too.

which ones better, the cgi form the actualy episode of BAMSR or my version :P

SerenaSerenity
November 24th, 2008, 11:40 AM
I wouldn't say it was their best, but I wouldn't say it was that bad. I've seen much worse. Stargate does great CGI compared to some other shows I've seen over the years. Just my own personal opinion of course.

Arga
November 24th, 2008, 12:21 PM
What??? you mean it wasn't a real building???
:eek:

PantheraLeo
November 24th, 2008, 08:45 PM
i think it would have been much better to have one mega tornado forming with the centre being the building and then it coming closer and closer as the containment field failed. it was pretty crappy CGI and not to mention some unbelievably lucky misses from a hound or tornadoes

Skydiver
November 25th, 2008, 04:37 AM
this native kansan laughs at how people that have never even seen a tornado portray them.

If they REALLY dropped out of the sky that easily, the whole midwest would be unlivable.

tremendous wind shear due to the temp differential, sure, spinning multiple tornados??? I don't think so.

Even if they did form, you'd have the massive cold front triggering thunderstorms....however, cold dry air hitting hot dry air will jsut create wind. the recipe for a severe t-storm and tornado is, cool dry air, warm MOIST air and enough environmental energy to make and keep a storm going.

i'm not sure what was worse, the CGI or the 'science'

Arga
November 25th, 2008, 01:18 PM
...
i'm not sure what was worse, the CGI or the 'science'

I'm sure you're right.
It reminds me of the episode of SG1 "Wormhole X-treme", where we see the producer (I think Brad Wright, correct me if I'm wrong) saying constantly "BIGGER!" about the explosion special effects.
Someone probably said, "no, make 2... no, 3 tornadoes, it will look better".


Another thing took my attention, (it could be related to CGI or not), it's when Keller is alone in that wet corridor... It doesn't look cold at all. There was not enough mist coming out of her mouth when she was talking.. And more frost everywhere... That made it a bit less dramatic for me.

Vala_M
November 25th, 2008, 01:36 PM
Designing real life environments virtually is always tough and usually looks fake. But when designing ships and such, it looks real because there is less that they could leave out. At least that's what I think.

And the ice spots on the walls looked fake and like somebody threw a snowball against the wall.

Vala,

Anon
November 25th, 2008, 01:52 PM
NO THEY WERE RUSHED!!!!!! In several interviews all the writers/staff/crew/producers/creators said that "it is gonna be a race to the finish" for 5 seconds of a building, not that important, no need to take too much time on it

Skydiver
November 25th, 2008, 04:24 PM
it was Peter DeLuise that said 'bigger' :)

and there's always an excuse. they were rushed, someone spilled coffee on the harddrive containing the good cgi, the month ended in R :)

heeroyue
November 25th, 2008, 04:39 PM
The building was pretty bad.... I don't normally notice that kind of thing but I had to pause on a shot of just the building for like half an hour.....

Alteran of Atlantis
November 25th, 2008, 04:41 PM
Didn't really notice at first, but yeah, the CGI was pretty bad...

wkw427
November 25th, 2008, 04:44 PM
I hope they fix it on the DVD...

Alteran of Atlantis
November 25th, 2008, 04:45 PM
I hope they fix it on the DVD...

Doubt it. That'd be nice, though.

Skydiver
November 25th, 2008, 04:51 PM
I hope they fix it on the DVD...
not likely at all

it'll cost money and you don't invest money in a 'dead' show

Anon
November 25th, 2008, 04:51 PM
yes it would be, but u know them <mod snip>. They wont do it, For Universe is upfor grabs, and nobody wants to work on atlantis any more except for Alteran of Atlantis, he will always work on atlantis

Ripple in Space
November 25th, 2008, 04:55 PM
I couldn't understand why they needed to CGI an American building on Earth anyway... Could it be that they couldn't find a camera?

jenks
November 25th, 2008, 05:03 PM
How many buildings are on their own in the middle of the desert?

Skydiver
November 25th, 2008, 05:51 PM
IMHO, they could have taken a photo of an open desert, then an aerial of a building, little photoshop job and presto chango, a building in the middle of the desert that actually looks real.

Lord batchi ball
November 25th, 2008, 06:47 PM
Yeah it was typical crappy Scifi CG.

I liked the sign just out in the middle of the desert, at first it made no sense why it was there, but I guess they put it there to blow away.

jenks
November 25th, 2008, 06:50 PM
IMHO, they could have taken a photo of an open desert, then an aerial of a building, little photoshop job and presto chango, a building in the middle of the desert that actually looks real.

Yes, you could think of this but their expert visual effect department couldn't? :rolleyes:

unluckynumber11
November 26th, 2008, 01:59 AM
IMHO, they could have taken a photo of an open desert, then an aerial of a building, little photoshop job and presto chango, a building in the middle of the desert that actually looks real.

But that would have been too easy :P

kymeric
November 27th, 2008, 04:48 PM
Weve all seen buildings before, id rather they saved the big budget money shots of space battles and scenes that have to look cool. If you dont know wut a building looks like, or NEED perfectly rendered common buildings go watch something else imho.

Dont waste budget on common things.

ToasterOnFire
November 27th, 2008, 04:52 PM
Yes, you could think of this but their expert visual effect department couldn't? :rolleyes:
Apparently not...

nx01a
November 27th, 2008, 07:21 PM
They weren't, I think they use a different vendor for the mid season episodes, the CG was mostly poor in BAMSR too.Finally, we agree on something. :D
This episode was horrid. From the very first night shot of the building... Ugh. When we see ships and non-human structures, they're nice [take the Ancient compound from Contact/Tribe]. When we see a human structure, they're horrid [this episode, that which shall not be named from The Last Man].

jenks
November 28th, 2008, 05:04 AM
Apparently not...

Either that, or they found a fatal flaw in that idea, the most obvious of which being that he building had to be 3D for the shot.

JohnDuh
November 28th, 2008, 10:33 AM
Like I said, the budget for this episode was used up on Keller's Boots. So they had to cut some corners in the actors and Visual effects budget. ;)

Which is bad, because boots suck. They should have given her some nice pumps (and nylons :) )

JohnDuh
November 28th, 2008, 10:48 AM
Are you guys mad? I have never seen such great CGI in my whole life:P


Haven't seen Sanctuary, eh? ;)

jelgate
November 28th, 2008, 11:41 AM
Yes I have seen Sanctuary and they have had their fair share of bad CGI:P

nx01a
November 28th, 2008, 12:00 PM
I'm going to compare the tornado cgi from this episode with that from Smallville's first season finale/second season opener. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4f/Smallville_121_tempest.jpgEven though it's 7 years old, I find Smallville's cgi was far better.

Mitchell82
December 1st, 2008, 07:04 PM
Yes I have seen Sanctuary and they have had their fair share of bad CGI:P

I disagree. Sanctuary has top notch cgi. As per this ep yes it wasn't the best but it wasn't there worst either. The only really crappy cg I remember on either show was at the end of season 2 of SG-1 when they first started making the symbiotes cg instead of a puppet. Eventually they got the hang of it.

Mitchell82
December 1st, 2008, 07:06 PM
They weren't, I think they use a different vendor for the mid season episodes, the CG was mostly poor in BAMSR too.

I have to disagree on all counts here. The CG in BAMSR, First Contact, and Lost Tribe were top notch CG IMO.

Ripple in Space
December 1st, 2008, 09:44 PM
I have to disagree on all counts here. The CG in BAMSR, First Contact, and Lost Tribe were top notch CG IMO.

I really liked the First Contact planet sequence

jenks
December 2nd, 2008, 01:52 AM
I have to disagree on all counts here. The CG in BAMSR, First Contact, and Lost Tribe were top notch CG IMO.

Well they weren't. The main battle in BAMSR was very low quality compared to the battles in The Last Man and The Queen, anyone can see that.

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/albums/atl_season4/411-BeAllMySinsRememberd/screencaps/normal_atl_411_0864.JPG

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/albums/atl_season4/420-TheLastMan/screencaps/normal_atl_420_0426.JPG

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/albums/atl_season4/420-TheLastMan/screencaps/normal_atl_420_0431.JPG

nx01a
December 2nd, 2008, 10:42 AM
The Phoenix sequences in TLM were beautiful, The Queen's action was good but a bit generic, and BAMSR's space sequences were just horrid, IMO. Shiny ships everywhere, odd relative motion... and that's not even talking about the actual events happening. Missiles and dart bolts vs Auroras, indeed.

You accept good cgi because it's good and enhances a scene; bad cgi detracts badly. I haven't seen the new Sanctuary yet but, if it's like the cgi from the webisodes, it's not the best possible. Tptb said they would put more money and rendering time into it, but I'll let others judge for now.

Laura Dove
December 2nd, 2008, 10:59 AM
I have to disagree on all counts here. The CG in BAMSR, First Contact, and Lost Tribe were top notch CG IMO.

Hmm, depends which part: I found the explosion of Janus' facility in "The Lost Tribe" absolutely awful. You can see screencaps of the scene at the bottom of http://www.macsyourman.com/atlantis/screencaps/season5/511hdtv/caps/dvd-56.html. In fact, it was the worst CGI in all SGA in my opinion.

jenks
December 2nd, 2008, 11:26 AM
The Phoenix sequences in TLM were beautiful, The Queen's action was good but a bit generic, and BAMSR's space sequences were just horrid, IMO. Shiny ships everywhere, odd relative motion... and that's not even talking about the actual events happening. Missiles and dart bolts vs Auroras, indeed.

You accept good cgi because it's good and enhances a scene; bad cgi detracts badly. I haven't seen the new Sanctuary yet but, if it's like the cgi from the webisodes, it's not the best possible. Tptb said they would put more money and rendering time into it, but I'll let others judge for now.

I'm anything but a fan of Sanctuary but the CG environments are top notch, not sure about the monsters though, they're a bit crap.


Hmm, depends which part: I found the explosion of Janus' facility in "The Lost Tribe" absolutely awful. You can see screencaps of the scene at the bottom of http://www.macsyourman.com/atlantis/screencaps/season5/511hdtv/caps/dvd-56.html. In fact, it was the worst CGI in all SGA in my opinion.

I think those explosions and the hyperspace over the water scene are probably the best CG shots in the episode.

nx01a
December 2nd, 2008, 11:49 AM
The moonlight passing through that 'water on glass' Atlantis shield effect... Simply breathtaking.

Mitchell82
December 2nd, 2008, 04:32 PM
Well they weren't. The main battle in BAMSR was very low quality compared to the battles in The Last Man and The Queen, anyone can see that.

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/albums/atl_season4/411-BeAllMySinsRememberd/screencaps/normal_atl_411_0864.JPG

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/albums/atl_season4/420-TheLastMan/screencaps/normal_atl_420_0426.JPG

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/albums/atl_season4/420-TheLastMan/screencaps/normal_atl_420_0431.JPG
They both look fine to me.

Mitchell82
December 2nd, 2008, 05:21 PM
The Phoenix sequences in TLM were beautiful, The Queen's action was good but a bit generic, and BAMSR's space sequences were just horrid, IMO. Shiny ships everywhere, odd relative motion... and that's not even talking about the actual events happening. Missiles and dart bolts vs Auroras, indeed.

You accept good cgi because it's good and enhances a scene; bad cgi detracts badly. I haven't seen the new Sanctuary yet but, if it's like the cgi from the webisodes, it's not the best possible. Tptb said they would put more money and rendering time into it, but I'll let others judge for now.

I have to disagree. I don't see bad cg in BAMSR I see great CG.
From BAMSR
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13953428.png
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13953468.png
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13954590.png
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13955020.png
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13955155.png
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13955457.png
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13955888.png
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13956177.png
]http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13956698.png
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13957532.png
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13957605.png
I fail to see bad CGI in that.

From TLM
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13958956.png
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13959145.png
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13959989.png
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13960595.png
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13961113.png
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/gatefan7882/vlcsnap-13961160.png
Now while the CGI in The Last Man is amazing the only difference between the CG in these two episodes is that the CG in The Last Man is that the CG in TLM is a higher resolution that's it. They are both great quality. IMO.

Skydiver
December 2nd, 2008, 06:21 PM
and then there' this from an early episode

http://pics.livejournal.com/skydiver119/pic/0000ay3r/g45
http://pics.livejournal.com/skydiver119/pic/0000bgtd/g45

these pics might be a little small...but the 'reflection' of hte puddle jumper????it's the PJ mirrored in the water, ie we see the top not the bottom...i'm gonna assume because it was faster and cheaper to put the same view of the PJ on the water as a reflection than it was to make and render a bottom view

i'm blanking on the title, but i think maybe this was from childhood's end

although, stuff like that i can easily forgive as people taking a shortcut...the CGI from brain storm???? I've seen amateurs do better. who knows, maybe scifi's photoshop guy has a job doing 3D now :)

Mitchell82
December 2nd, 2008, 07:02 PM
and then there' this from an early episode

http://pics.livejournal.com/skydiver119/pic/0000ay3r/g45
http://pics.livejournal.com/skydiver119/pic/0000bgtd/g45

these pics might be a little small...but the 'reflection' of hte puddle jumper????it's the PJ mirrored in the water, ie we see the top not the bottom...i'm gonna assume because it was faster and cheaper to put the same view of the PJ on the water as a reflection than it was to make and render a bottom view

i'm blanking on the title, but i think maybe this was from childhood's end

although, stuff like that i can easily forgive as people taking a shortcut...the CGI from brain storm???? I've seen amateurs do better. who knows, maybe scifi's photoshop guy has a job doing 3D now :)
That's really minor and a common goof it's far from proof that the overall CG is bad. I will admit the CG in brainstorm could have been better it wasnt that bad.

jenks
December 3rd, 2008, 03:08 AM
I have to disagree. I don't see bad cg in BAMSR I see great CG.

The first two and the last one are good, the others are poor.


Now while the CGI in The Last Man is amazing the only difference between the CG in these two episodes is that the CG in The Last Man is that the CG in TLM is a higher resolution that's it. They are both great quality. IMO.

Lower resolution = lower quality. The ships in the BAMSR battle look like cartoon ships compared to SGA ships at their best, while the battle was epic, the CG for it just looked a mess.

Laura Dove
December 3rd, 2008, 04:12 AM
I think those explosions and the hyperspace over the water scene are probably the best CG shots in the episode.

Agreed with the hyperspace window over the water, but the explosions looked like they don't belong, as if it were just two poorly combined pictures. A dark reddish-orange explosion cloud is not supposed to light the surroundings in bright yellow. :S

Mitchell82
December 3rd, 2008, 12:29 PM
The first two and the last one are good, the others are poor.



Lower resolution = lower quality. The ships in the BAMSR battle look like cartoon ships compared to SGA ships at their best, while the battle was epic, the CG for it just looked a mess.

I disagree. I'll agree that the quality in TLM is better I don't agree that it looks bad at all especially not cartoonish.

s09119
December 4th, 2008, 03:49 PM
I disagree. I'll agree that the quality in TLM is better I don't agree that it looks bad at all especially not cartoonish.

The hive ships were bright purple :confused: THEY WERE BLUE-GREEN WHEN THEY WERE INTRODUCED xD

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/albums/atl_season1/120-TheSiegePart2/screencaps/normal_atl_120_0864.JPG

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/albums/atl_season4/411-BeAllMySinsRememberd/screencaps/normal_atl_411_0790.JPG

Mitchell82
December 4th, 2008, 06:04 PM
The hive ships were bright purple :confused: THEY WERE BLUE-GREEN WHEN THEY WERE INTRODUCED xD

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/albums/atl_season1/120-TheSiegePart2/screencaps/normal_atl_120_0864.JPG

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/albums/atl_season4/411-BeAllMySinsRememberd/screencaps/normal_atl_411_0790.JPG

They haven't been that color in three years.

thedrumm3rguy
December 6th, 2008, 01:17 AM
absolutely love the old blue/green hive!..the purple one does look cheap in comparison!

the ships in the lost tribe disappointed me; looked really dull and uncreative....as did the space combat.

as for this ep....yea the CG is bad....was like a trip back to 1997 video game CGI :D


but the cake goes to those ice blasts! they really did looked like carved Styrofoam!

nx01a
December 6th, 2008, 06:55 AM
The freeze lightning effects were nice, albeit generic energy/light bursts. The actual frozen sections made me laugh.

Mitchell82
December 7th, 2008, 09:07 AM
After re watching Brain Storm I will have to stick to my opinion even more. The CGI IMO was not that bad at all. They do seem to do better CG with space battles and such than buildings but it wasn't bad at all.

nx01a
December 8th, 2008, 11:06 AM
The best cgi in the episode was the inserted cold breath. Subtle yet effective. It was missing from SG-1 in Antarctica in 'Frozen'. :P

JohnDuh
December 8th, 2008, 11:18 AM
Yes I have seen Sanctuary and they have had their fair share of bad CGI:P

Heh, it looks like a bad computer game - but apparently some people think its fine (or they have bad televisions ;)

Replicator Fifth
December 8th, 2008, 11:22 AM
Hmm, depends which part: I found the explosion of Janus' facility in "The Lost Tribe" absolutely awful. You can see screencaps of the scene at the bottom of http://www.macsyourman.com/atlantis/screencaps/season5/511hdtv/caps/dvd-56.html. In fact, it was the worst CGI in all SGA in my opinion.

Th Atlantis season 4 ender was horrible CGI. the Building looked like Outerlimits quality CGI. very low budget! (still likes outerlimits ;P) alot of animation shortcuts are taken in the later seasons Atlantis. not nearly as much as, oh, say That new Star Wars movie. but still we, as fans aren't stupid we know a good quality scene when we see one. I often buy a video game because the animation is quality, (I enjoyed playing Sphinx and the Cursed Mummy).

It seems that most people are complaining about the space battles and the ship explosions, I guess they could bring EVE online artists and let them animate that for them. :mckay:

Arga
December 8th, 2008, 11:56 AM
In Stargate history, though, the "bad CGI" that disturbed me most was in Crystal Skull, when Teal'C is running on that stone bridge in the cave. The background look so fake, and strange...
:tealc:

atlantis-abydos
December 8th, 2008, 11:59 AM
Anyone else think that the CG images of the building everyone was in was really bad? I mean I've seen so much better stuff in all the other episodes but recently the CG stuff in Atlantis has been going downhill, especially when they try to do images of a town or building or something.

I've been thinking that ever since I first saw it. Love the episode, but that scene made me feel a bit ashamed, my friend said something like "seriously, I wouldn't have thought you liked series that look so fake" - and I couldn't even hit her for that :(

Replicator Fifth
December 8th, 2008, 12:02 PM
I've been thinking that ever since I first saw it. Love the episode, but that scene made me feel a bit ashamed, my friend said something like "seriously, I wouldn't have thought you liked series that look so fake" - and I couldn't even hit her for that :(

:beckett14: so sad *hugs*

Louis_Vuitton
December 16th, 2008, 11:21 AM
Yeah I can't argue that scene was just awful and I thought the frost looked like they'd sprayed foam all over the place. Besides that I don't think the CGI's going downhill so I personally am just going to forgive the lapse in quality.