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fordpickup&6pack
November 22nd, 2008, 11:01 AM
Was it so difficult to get a simple fact straight, instead of having Keller misspeak?

SerenaSerenity
November 24th, 2008, 06:21 AM
Was it so difficult to get a simple fact straight, instead of having Keller misspeak?

Well, I honestly don't know anything about Med School and such. So I have no clue, nor had any clue that it was misspoken. *nod nod*

fordpickup&6pack
November 24th, 2008, 01:24 PM
Well, I honestly don't know anything about Med School and such. So I have no clue, nor had any clue that it was misspoken. *nod nod*
I'm sure that what the producers counted on, when they didn't bother to get that straight. But anyways, it's always 4.

jelgate
November 24th, 2008, 01:39 PM
I'm sure that what the producers counted on, when they didn't bother to get that straight. But anyways, it's always 4.Actually thats always true. It would be longer if Keller specialized in something. It also depends on how many credits Keller took per semester

fordpickup&6pack
November 24th, 2008, 04:09 PM
Actually thats always true. It would be longer if Keller specialized in something. It also depends on how many credits Keller took per semester

You never specialize in medschool. That's what residencies (3-6+ years long) are for. So, it is always 4, unless someone does md/phd concurrently, or extends (due to extenuating circumstances).

Flyboy
November 24th, 2008, 04:18 PM
In Britain it's 5 years. Who's to say she got her medical degree in the United States.

VSS
November 24th, 2008, 04:21 PM
I'm sure that what the producers counted on, when they didn't bother to get that straight. But anyways, it's always 4.

Yes, always four except for MD/PhD then it's six.

fordpickup&6pack
November 24th, 2008, 04:31 PM
In Britain it's 5 years. Who's to say she got her medical degree in the United States.

Well in Russia it is 6, or so I heard, so she must have gotten it there for sure then, right? :)

It is not easy to get to practice in US even with essentially identical Canadian MD degree. From any other places, including UK, it makes it exponentially more difficult to do it in US.

VSS
November 24th, 2008, 04:57 PM
Well in Russia it is 6, or so I heard, so she must have gotten it there for sure then, right? :)

It is not easy to get to practice in US even with essentially identical Canadian MD degree. From any other places, including UK, it makes it exponentially more difficult to do it in US.

Not only that, but those countries want to train their own doctors, they don't want to train someone who is just going to leave. Almost all of the good off-shore schools are supported by the citizens of the country in which they are located, so why would they train an American?

I don't think there's much switching of countries until residency.

ToasterOnFire
November 24th, 2008, 07:05 PM
Yes, always four except for MD/PhD then it's six.
MD/PhD is more like 8, maaaybe 7 if you cram your thesis into 3 years. Most researchers look down on that though.

VSS
November 24th, 2008, 07:08 PM
MD/PhD is more like 8, maaaybe 7 if you cram your thesis into 3 years. Most researchers look down on that though.

I have no doubt it could be more than six, because research is not predictable. One thing is for sure, it isn't less!

PantheraLeo
November 24th, 2008, 08:35 PM
In Malaysia, an MD is 5 years long.
It would be odd that she had to prolong her medical studies since Keller herself in the S4 episode Missing that she was a genius since she was very young.
I think it just boils down to shoddy writing as always.

Shpinxinator
November 25th, 2008, 10:30 AM
Thats not taking into account that she could have changed her focus of study and had to (or chose to) start over or maybe was held back a year or longer...


Or it could be as simple as her choosing to become and RN (which is two years) before med school.

fordpickup&6pack
November 25th, 2008, 02:58 PM
Thats not taking into account that she could have changed her focus of study and had to (or chose to) start over or maybe was held back a year or longer...


Or it could be as simple as her choosing to become and RN (which is two years) before med school.

No, please see post # 6 re: "focus of study". And no - nursing school has nothing to do with it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, re: md/phd comments from yesterday... I couldn't comment on duration, since I did not know for sure. Anyways, since the program was phased out at my school before me, I had to ask around (just for sh*ts and giggles), and it turned out to be 8. However, at my friend's school it is still 8. So, go figure. :)

master811
November 25th, 2008, 06:38 PM
In Britain it's 5 years. Who's to say she got her medical degree in the United States.

Nope it's 6 years in the UK. (at least the normal Undergrad course is).

Shpinxinator
November 26th, 2008, 02:36 AM
No, please see post # 6 re: "focus of study". And no - nursing school has nothing to do with it.

How could you possibly know?

Col.Ads
November 26th, 2008, 02:48 AM
In England its 5 years then if you specialise it can be upto 3 or 4 years more, however it can be 6 years aswell in england (i currently have a friend who is in his 6th and final year)

Celebrian
November 26th, 2008, 03:03 AM
Some undergrad med programs in the UK are completed over 7 years from what I was told when I was looking at applying to different courses. Maybe she studied in the UK or a course that took 6 years, maybe it was bad writing. It didn't ruin the episode or the series for me though...

Col.Ads
November 26th, 2008, 03:05 AM
Well in the UK it depends also on which University you go to and what hospitals they are affiliated with, some dont allow for certain things while others will, ive heard of people taking upto 10 years to specialise in certain fields.

but it probably was bad writting in kellers case

fordpickup&6pack
November 26th, 2008, 06:17 AM
How could you possibly know?

Not sure what your question refers to. If to Keller, then it's pretty obvious that it was another slip-shod writing - as I said in post #1. If about schools in general, well, nursing school has indeed nothing to do with medschool, just like nursing school has nothing to do with emt. You're welcome to draw the comparisons, but they inherently don't intercept in their nature beyond interaction with patients. There's plenty of literature on the subject available online, so feel free to browse it if you have any further questions.

Flyboy
November 26th, 2008, 06:40 AM
Nope it's 6 years in the UK. (at least the normal Undergrad course is).
As has been mused in posts after yours, it's evidentally dependent on universities, however I know some guys currently going through a Medical degree in the run up to becoming an RAF Medical officer and they're on 5 year degrees, although after the degree finishes, I believe there's more complicated stuff they have to do... so it doesn't end there.

Linzi
November 26th, 2008, 07:39 AM
In Britain it's 5 years. Who's to say she got her medical degree in the United States.


Nope it's 6 years in the UK. (at least the normal Undergrad course is).

In the UK it can be five or six years, depending if a second degree is taken concurrently and the exact course title of the medical degree. A lot of med schools now, especially in London, only offer 6 year courses. Some of the newer courses are five years though. The 6 year course is considered more prestigious :)

Incidentally, in the UK, under 18's are not allowed to start a medical degree. So Keller would be roughly....hmmm, about 2 years or so out of her medical degree and still training over here to be a surgeon, geneticist, neuro-surgeon, general medic etc... :rolleyes:

Thoth
November 27th, 2008, 04:33 AM
There is a MASSIVE amount of variation between individuals, universities and especially between countries as far as the length of medical degrees is concerned.

(Note that medical degrees here in Ireland are usually started immediately after high school; you do not do a pre-med degree)
Just in my university (I am a medical student), you can do a 5, 6 or 7 year course. If you have done certain subjects in high-school, you can skip the first year, reducing the course to 5 years.
If you want to get an extra degree, you can 'intercalate' after year 3 and spend an extra year finishing an honours science degree, before returning to the medical faculty. This means you do a 7 year course.
In another university about an hour away from mine, you can do a 4 year medical degree provided you have an undergraduate science degree.

So, just moving around one small country, you can do a 4, 5, 6 or 7 year degree. And that's not to mention the effect of failing a year and having to repeat it.


Not only that, but those countries want to train their own doctors, they don't want to train someone who is just going to leave. Almost all of the good off-shore schools are supported by the citizens of the country in which they are located, so why would they train an American?

I don't think there's much switching of countries until residency.

Ha! Literally half of my class isn't Irish. We have Malaysians, Australians, English, Gibraltarians, Belarussians, Singaporeans, Northern Irish, Canadians... And that's not because my university isn't a "good one". That holds true for ALL universities in Ireland (and the UK).

Since Keller was a child prodigy, she could have easily been invited to a prestigious university abroad (eg. Cambridge), where they do a 6 year degree (and she thus would not have done a pre-med degree, which might explain her young age).
OR she was schooled in the US, had an accelerated pre-med degree (2 years) because she got a special dispensation and then did her 4 year medical degree. And she's counting her pre-med along with her medical degree (which a lot of people do).

Linzi: you can get exemptions from minimum age requirements to start university. My friend started university at 15 (minimum age requirement over here is 16).

Linzi
November 27th, 2008, 05:50 AM
There is a MASSIVE amount of variation between individuals, universities and especially between countries as far as the length of medical degrees is concerned.

(Note that medical degrees here in Ireland are usually started immediately after high school; you do not do a pre-med degree)
Just in my university (I am a medical student), you can do a 5, 6 or 7 year course. If you have done certain subjects in high-school, you can skip the first year, reducing the course to 5 years.
If you want to get an extra degree, you can 'intercalate' after year 3 and spend an extra year finishing an honours science degree, before returning to the medical faculty. This means you do a 7 year course.
In another university about an hour away from mine, you can do a 4 year medical degree provided you have an undergraduate science degree.



So, just moving around one small country, you can do a 4, 5, 6 or 7 year degree. And that's not to mention the effect of failing a year and having to repeat it.



Ha! Literally half of my class isn't Irish. We have Malaysians, Australians, English, Gibraltarians, Belarussians, Singaporeans, Northern Irish, Canadians... And that's not because my university isn't a "good one". That holds true for ALL universities in Ireland (and the UK).

Since Keller was a child prodigy, she could have easily been invited to a prestigious university abroad (eg. Cambridge), where they do a 6 year degree (and she thus would not have done a pre-med degree, which might explain her young age).
OR she was schooled in the US, had an accelerated pre-med degree (2 years) because she got a special dispensation and then did her 4 year medical degree. And she's counting her pre-med along with her medical degree (which a lot of people do).

Linzi: you can get exemptions from minimum age requirements to start university. My friend started university at 15 (minimum age requirement over here is 16).
For medicine? On all the application forms my daughter filled in for med schools it said you had to be 18 when starting the course, and they wouldn't even accept anyone a year younger, if they'd had an accelerated education. Is it different in Ireland? :)


The fact of the matter is, IMO, it really doesn't matter how long Keller's degree was per se. She's far too young to have had the years of training it takes to perform neuro surgery etc... and waaaaay too young for anyone to give her the post of CMO. We know she was a genius prodigy, though, I've got to say, it's not obvious from anything she does or says on screen that she is either a genius or prodigy at all. In fact, generally her medical practices don't bear too much scrutiny. But, hey, it's fiction. :)

Col.Ads
November 27th, 2008, 06:17 AM
Cant remember where it was, some eastern asian country they had a 15 year old surgeon, was a child genius though

kadorwm
November 29th, 2008, 10:07 PM
While they are not common, a 6 year medical program in the US is a joint program where you get your undergraduate and medical degree simultaneously.

I know that they have one at RPI and Albany School of Medicine, and I think they have one at Columbia and Rice / Baylor College of Medicine as well.

Basically you major in biology and max out on credits only taking classes toward med school entrance the first two years and then take med school and a couple of general requirements the next 4. They are extremely competitive and that is what I think they were referring to, though I did a double take when I first heard the 6 years too.