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View Full Version : Why did Dr. Keller say ________ on the first date?



horans015
November 22nd, 2008, 02:15 AM
Does this remind anyone of the awful love story in attack of the clones? On their first date Dr. Keller says I love you- come on. Yes they work together, yes they face life and death together, but when have the two of them ever shared an intimate moment (well maybe trio but carter was there) for her to develop "love" for him...

I'd love to hear ur guys thoughts!
Sean

Madeleine
November 22nd, 2008, 07:05 AM
You don't need to share an intimate moment to love someone. There are people whom I love with whom I have never had a private moment; and Mr W and I loved each other long before we started dating.

Some people go on dates to find out if they love a person... others go on dates *because* they love that person :)

Madwelshboy
November 22nd, 2008, 08:15 AM
You don't need to share an intimate moment to love someone. There are people whom I love with whom I have never had a private moment; and Mr W and I loved each other long before we started dating.

Some people go on dates to find out if they love a person... others go on dates *because* they love that person :)

Indeed. some people cane even come to love each other without even being alone together in a no intimate way

keezo
November 22nd, 2008, 08:34 AM
Also, the whole point of her saying "I love you. I have for sometime now. Just wanted you to know" is because it was what Rodney said to her in The Shrine when he was being videotaped. They had never had an intimate moment together when he said it so why couldn't she say it as well.:)

Korean_Turtle87
November 22nd, 2008, 09:18 AM
McKay said it before the first date

Arica15
November 22nd, 2008, 09:21 AM
And then there are some people who say it without meaning or understanding it

ToasterOnFire
November 22nd, 2008, 09:25 AM
In order to fulfill TPTB's quota of ham-fisted and anvilicious ship?

Arica15
November 22nd, 2008, 09:26 AM
In order to fulfill TPTB's quota of ham-fisted and anvilicious ship?

There's always that too;)

sgakaz
November 22nd, 2008, 09:34 AM
The only thing for me is how quick the turn around from nearly proposing to Katie Brown which was the tail end of season 4 to this, is it just rebound for McKay or the real thing.

jelgate
November 22nd, 2008, 09:35 AM
The only thing for me is how quick the turn around from nearly proposing to Katie Brown which was the tail end of season 4 to this, is it just rebound for McKay or the real thing.Hasn't it been about a year since then?

sgakaz
November 22nd, 2008, 09:39 AM
Teyla was heavily pregnant at the time of the near proposal, how old is the baby now?

wolverine_nl
November 22nd, 2008, 09:42 AM
The time in the SG universe is different from reality, heck even the names of the actors arent the same as the characters they are portraying :lol:

maxbo
November 22nd, 2008, 10:03 AM
In order to fulfill TPTB's quota of ham-fisted and anvilicious ship?

Bingo!

wurlitzer153
November 22nd, 2008, 11:50 AM
The near-proposal was in Quarantine (413) and the breakup was confirmed in Trio (416).

JackHarkness_Hot
November 22nd, 2008, 11:50 AM
Now now kids, let's not forget Keller did nearly died but got revived by her hero - Rodney, so why not for Jennifer to go, "I love you".

tombombadil
November 22nd, 2008, 11:52 AM
well, there is the fact that RODNEY SAVED HER LIFE!!!

hisg1fans
November 22nd, 2008, 12:36 PM
Also, the whole point of her saying "I love you. I have for sometime now. Just wanted you to know" is because it was what Rodney said to her in The Shrine when he was being videotaped. They had never had an intimate moment together when he said it so why couldn't she say it as well.:)

Ditto


McKay said it before the first date

Yes he did!

Infinite-Possibilities
November 22nd, 2008, 02:13 PM
McKay said I love you to her completely out of nowhere, so she wanted to one up him.

Lewisco
November 22nd, 2008, 04:05 PM
Love's a tricky concept. you can't judge when someone should love someone. it all depends on their feelings. and you dont necessarily need to go on dates with someone until you're allowed to say you love them.

Rac80
November 22nd, 2008, 04:09 PM
Warning identity spoiler:
because she has already switched bodies with the thief in Indentity! The gal figures she can con Mckay easier than ronon!

jelgate
November 22nd, 2008, 05:19 PM
Sounds like wishful thinking Rac80:P

kymeric
November 22nd, 2008, 06:23 PM
When a chick says ILY on the first day ur sposed to either run away, or nock her up asap.

kali1
November 23rd, 2008, 12:19 AM
And then there are some people who say it without meaning or understanding it

Bravo. well said.

saying "I love you" and having sex on the first date are not the ingredients to a long term relationship. But that's just my opinion.

gottaluvit
November 23rd, 2008, 12:45 AM
saying "I love you" and having sex on the first date are not the ingredients to a long term relationship. But that's just my opinion.


Lol. Well I'm glad it is just your opinion and my husband didn't have that same opinion. We knew each other as freinds for only three months before out first date, and yes he said ILY on that first date. It does happen. Sometimes things just don't go according to the rules that society likes to try and impose. I'm hoping 18yrs is considered a 'long term' relationship.

Of course there are many times when it isn't, as you say, the ingredients for a great relationship, but I've also known folks who've dated for a very long time before making a commitment to each other, then splitting up in a fairly short period of time afterwards.

Who makes the rules for relationships these days anyway? McKay/Keller isn't a pairing I like, but I don't see anything wrong with her announcement that she's loved him for awhile.

Madeleine
November 23rd, 2008, 01:11 AM
Perhaps someone should provide the standard timetable so that the rest of us can know how a proper relationship is supposed to go...

x days/weeks/months/years since meeting - you are permitted to love someone

y minutes/hours/days total 'alone time' - you are permitted to love someone

z dates - you are permitted to love someone

In addition there is a great deal of confusion as to whether you are allowed to love someone before having shagged them, or if a certain number of shags are required before the proper modern couple are allowed to love one another.

the corrolary is that if x+n, y+n or z+n are reached without love being declared, it can't be real love or it would have been felt at times x,y,or z.

Sorry chaps, but I did all my falling in love in the c20, and I seem to be out of touch with the mathematics of love.

JackHarkness_Hot
November 23rd, 2008, 01:16 AM
Perhaps someone should provide the standard timetable so that the rest of us can know how a proper relationship is supposed to go...

x days/weeks/months/years since meeting - you are permitted to love someone

y minutes/hours/days total 'alone time' - you are permitted to love someone

z dates - you are permitted to love someone

In addition there is a great deal of confusion as to whether you are allowed to love someone before having shagged them, or if a certain number of shags are required before the proper modern couple are allowed to love one another.

the corrolary is that if x+n, y+n or z+n are reached without love being declared, it can't be real love or it would have been felt at times x,y,or z.

Sorry chaps, but I did all my falling in love in the c20, and I seem to be out of touch with the mathematics of love.LOL

If some guy asked me out on a date and it's someone I wanted to be with for quite sometime and it ended up with me dying and my date saves my life and he still wants to be with me after all that, crap I would say, "I love you!"

gottaluvit
November 23rd, 2008, 01:17 AM
Perhaps someone should provide the standard timetable so that the rest of us can know how a proper relationship is supposed to go...

x days/weeks/months/years since meeting - you are permitted to love someone

y minutes/hours/days total 'alone time' - you are permitted to love someone

z dates - you are permitted to love someone

In addition there is a great deal of confusion as to whether you are allowed to love someone before having shagged them, or if a certain number of shags are required before the proper modern couple are allowed to love one another.

the corrolary is that if x+n, y+n or z+n are reached without love being declared, it can't be real love or it would have been felt at times x,y,or z.

Sorry chaps, but I did all my falling in love in the c20, and I seem to be out of touch with the mathematics of love.


ROTFLMAO!!! Well said.

Jedi_Master_Bra'tac
November 23rd, 2008, 01:53 AM
I have a wacky theory, maybe she said "I love you" because she loves him....
Nah it's stupid, doesn't fit with the formula (2x + y)/z = love :P

Mana
November 23rd, 2008, 04:21 AM
Bravo. well said.

saying "I love you" and having sex on the first date are not the ingredients to a long term relationship. But that's just my opinion.

You act like they don't know each other. After a year, and being in dangerous situations together, you'd think they would have bonded. Technically, I wouldn't say it was their first "date" (He did buy her a drink) But, who needs a date to know whether you love someone or not. Whatever happened to "Love at First Sight?" Sometimes, when you love someone, you just LOVE them.

In normal circumstances, some people would go by the
"rules" of dating governed by society, but, they are fictional characters who live in a completely different galaxy and deal with life and death situations on a weekly basis. Also, keep in mind, They don't show us every minute of every day on Atlantis. The writers would like us to realize that Mckay and Keller have been getting to know each other outside of what we see in an episode. You don't have to be going out on a date to get to know someone. Also, didnt Mckay say in 'The Shine' that, not only did he love her, he loved her for some time? Again, sometimes, you just know. Sometimes, the rulebook gets thrown out the window. Love is unpredictable.



Lol. Well I'm glad it is just your opinion and my husband didn't have that same opinion. We knew each other as freinds for only three months before out first date, and yes he said ILY on that first date. It does happen. Sometimes things just don't go according to the rules that society likes to try and impose. I'm hoping 18yrs is considered a 'long term' relationship.

Of course there are many times when it isn't, as you say, the ingredients for a great relationship, but I've also known folks who've dated for a very long time before making a commitment to each other, then splitting up in a fairly short period of time afterwards.

Who makes the rules for relationships these days anyway? McKay/Keller isn't a pairing I like, but I don't see anything wrong with her announcement that she's loved him for awhile.

Amen to that! Congrats on 18 years. ^^

Davidtourniquet
November 23rd, 2008, 05:47 AM
well he did just

save her life

Dutch_Razor
November 23rd, 2008, 07:37 AM
Does this remind anyone of the awful love story in attack of the clones? On their first date Dr. Keller says I love you- come on. Yes they work together, yes they face life and death together, but when have the two of them ever shared an intimate moment (well maybe trio but carter was there) for her to develop "love" for him...

I'd love to hear ur guys thoughts!
Sean

Because she almost died and just came out of hypothermic shock? That must do something to your sanity :P

rea
November 23rd, 2008, 09:28 AM
Warning identity spoiler:
because she has already switched bodies with the thief in Indentity! The gal figures she can con Mckay easier than ronon!

I don't think so! But as we all now "Relationships that evolve out of life threatning situation are not meant to hold." Though I was kinda freaked,too. hugging him.. yeah..kissing him... hell ya... but I thought the I love you was a bit rushed, too.... and on the plane they sit that much apart.. after that kind of confession... I'd be all over him... forget the talking!

prion
November 23rd, 2008, 09:38 AM
Does this remind anyone of the awful love story in attack of the clones? On their first date Dr. Keller says I love you- come on. Yes they work together, yes they face life and death together, but when have the two of them ever shared an intimate moment (well maybe trio but carter was there) for her to develop "love" for him...

I'd love to hear ur guys thoughts!
Sean

never saw 'attack of the clones,' but this 'i love you' on the first date reminds me of some bad fanfic though... or a fanboy's fantasy *cough*.

ed263
November 23rd, 2008, 10:12 AM
I think Keller had been interested in Rodney from Trio when she said he was a nice guy and then again when she mentioned that Rodney was seeing Carson while he was in the stasis pod. So yes, maybe she was falling in love with Rodney and then finally realized that it was love all along and turned down Ronon.

And I think her repeating the words that Rodney used during The Shrine just let me know that she repeatedly viewed that portion of the taping and so it just seemed natural to repeat it back to Rodney.

I didn't feel that her declaration of love to Rodney was rushed, she seemed genuinely in awe that Rodney had saved her life and then quitely and clearly said I love you. So I thought that was a tender moment for both.

kali1
November 23rd, 2008, 01:14 PM
We all have different opinions on this subject and that is fine. But respect differing opinions. What I said was my opinion. I was simply stating that. Yes, for some, knowing each other for a short time and then saying 'love you' right away works. But that doesn't work for everyone. I believe love takes time to develop. Yes...time is relative though. It depends on the commitment involved and it takes knowing each other. I just believe saying ILY too quickly is a mistake. I agree with what Arica said....Some do say "I love you" too quickly without understanding the meaning of it. Again. My opinion.

gottaluvit
November 23rd, 2008, 05:17 PM
We all have different opinions on this subject and that is fine. But respect differing opinions. What I said was my opinion.

I hope you didn't feel I was disrespecting your opinion, that wasn't my intent. I merely wished to provide a look at 'the other side of the coin' so to say. When you said that "saying "I love you" and having sex on the first date are not the ingredients to a long term relationship" I simply wanted to point out that that may not always be the case. I wasn't telling you to change your opinion, nor was I disrepecting you having that opinion and I apologise if you felt I was, it simply differs from my own personal experience is all.

kali1
November 23rd, 2008, 05:48 PM
I hope you didn't feel I was disrespecting your opinion, that wasn't my intent. I merely wished to provide a look at 'the other side of the coin' so to say. When you said that "saying "I love you" and having sex on the first date are not the ingredients to a long term relationship" I simply wanted to point out that that may not always be the case. I wasn't telling you to change your opinion, nor was I disrepecting you having that opinion and I apologise if you felt I was, it simply differs from my own personal experience is all.

I didn't think that at all about your post....really. I'm totally ok for people having different opinions. My goodness, if we were all the same, we'd be boring. I only said that because sometimes in threads, people forget that everyone has different opinions. I only put that out there as a general comment. You gave a good point. You didn't disrespect me at all.

*huggles* It's ok.

gottaluvit
November 23rd, 2008, 06:40 PM
I didn't think that at all about your post....really. I'm totally ok for people having different opinions. My goodness, if we were all the same, we'd be boring. I only said that because sometimes in threads, people forget that everyone has different opinions. I only put that out there as a general comment. You gave a good point. You didn't disrespect me at all.

*huggles* It's ok.

Cool. Thanks for qualifying that. I sometimes develop foot in mouth syndrome on forums and forget to double check my posts don't come across as thoughtless. :sheppard:

kali1
November 23rd, 2008, 06:49 PM
Cool. Thanks for qualifying that. I sometimes develop foot in mouth syndrome on forums and forget to double check my posts don't come across as thoughtless. :sheppard:

I do the same :D

the fifth man
November 23rd, 2008, 07:05 PM
She told him she loved him because, obviously (at least IMO) she had felt that way for some time. The "first date" was really kind of a formality.

SoulReaver
November 23rd, 2008, 08:18 PM
Perhaps someone should provide the standard timetable so that the rest of us can know how a proper relationship is supposed to go...

x days/weeks/months/years since meeting - you are permitted to love someone

y minutes/hours/days total 'alone time' - you are permitted to love someone

z dates - you are permitted to love someone

In addition there is a great deal of confusion as to whether you are allowed to love someone before having shagged them, or if a certain number of shags are required before the proper modern couple are allowed to love one another.

the corrolary is that if x+n, y+n or z+n are reached without love being declared, it can't be real love or it would have been felt at times x,y,or z.don't forget the total volume of fluid exchange - crucial parameter

ykickamoocow
November 23rd, 2008, 08:28 PM
don't forget the total volume of fluid exchange - crucial parameter

Most definitely :D

Madeleine
November 24th, 2008, 02:16 AM
You mean, like, she has to buy a round of drinks for him and his pals, and he has to give her a bottle of perfume?

SoulReaver
November 24th, 2008, 07:43 AM
You mean, like, she has to buy a round of drinks for him and his pals, and he has to give her a bottle of perfume?yes, and a bottle of milk

SerenaSerenity
November 24th, 2008, 11:33 AM
Just saying before hand. Just in case I do end up making it sound pushy. This is my own personal opinion and I appologise in advance in case anyone feels offended.

I was with my bf for a month before we said I love you to eachother. Granted, we haven't been together for eighteen years. But it has been two years. lol So I guess it's not a good example.

But I do believe in love at first sight. But I also believe that it grows and matures as you get to know that person you fell for.

Arga
November 24th, 2008, 12:32 PM
(....) but when have the two of them ever shared an intimate moment (....)



Maybe they had moments "off camera"... ? Suppose they were real people, they might do things we don't see on film. We never see people going to the toilets as well..

FallenAngelII
November 24th, 2008, 02:51 PM
What many people are not getting is that for a character to declare their love for someone (especially if they've loved them "for a very long time"), it's logical and almost required to have thrown in some scenes to affirm that.

This is not about whether or not we think they actually love each other. It's about how the writers haven't developed the ship at all.

As it stands, it's just out of blue. Tacked on. Forced. Random.

Almost nothing on-screen to indicate they've had enough time to develop genuine love for each other. Nothing. All we have are random declarations out of the blue. What, do they think these are plot twists, or something? Dun-dun-dun, they love each other!

Things like this needs an on-screen foundation.

And, no, Rodney and Jennifer haven't really had much romantic interaction. Rodney's declaration of love per video was out of the blue. Jennifer's still is.

I mean, let's not forget that less than three months ago, she was possibly torn between Ronon and Rodney and still undecided.

andromeda_dan
November 24th, 2008, 03:17 PM
Dr Keller was suffering from hypothermia, hence, her judgement was impaired.

Crazedwraith
November 24th, 2008, 03:29 PM
What many people are not getting is that for a character to declare their love for someone (especially if they've loved them "for a very long time"), it's logical and almost required to have thrown in some scenes to affirm that.

This is not about whether or not we think they actually love each other. It's about how the writers haven't developed the ship at all.

As it stands, it's just out of blue. Tacked on. Forced. Random.


What about the end of Trio? What about Rodney's obvious concern for her in "The Seed" what about how both of them behaved in "The Shrine"

This is hardly without foreshadowing.

The Prophet
November 24th, 2008, 03:40 PM
Saving the person's life and being in near death scenario's create an automatic clich├ęd responce of "I love you".

Heck, if anyone saved my life, I'd say "I love you" just because there isn't much else dramatic enough to say at that point. In jest of course. Or actually, but covering it up with jest/ sarcasm. Also, it'd be amazingly funny to see the reaction on the person's face.

Most of my friends however, would either tell me they loved me back in jest, agknowledge that it's obvious that I love them, or thank me for the compliment.

... I've probably giving everybody an incentive not to save my life, if the occasion ever arises... great.

:P

Stormtrooper
November 24th, 2008, 03:51 PM
Maybe they had moments "off camera"... ? Suppose they were real people, they might do things we don't see on film. We never see people going to the toilets as well..

Where most things "happen" in Atlantis...

Rac80
November 24th, 2008, 04:40 PM
I have several reasons ...pick your favorite:
1. someone had slipped her a "mickey" so she was drugged.
2. Neeva had already switched bodies with her.
3. This is an AU version of reality
4. Being nearly frozen had gone to her head and she thought she was seeing Ronon
5. Bill Nye offered $5 million to get mckay in the sack and she needs the money for a life-saving operation for her father.
6. Someone let Martin Gero out without adult supervison!

FallenAngelII
November 24th, 2008, 05:50 PM
What about the end of Trio? What about Rodney's obvious concern for her in "The Seed" what about how both of them behaved in "The Shrine"

This is hardly without foreshadowing.
I didn't say it was completely without foreshadowing. Do not "interpret" my posts.

I said that there's been very little foreshadowing. Rodney's concern for her in "The Seed" could easily be explained as friendship. They went for a drink at the end of "Trio" due to a bet.

Then, all of a sudden, in "The Shrine", Rodney says he loves her. Then we see her apparently leading Ronon on for two episodes and now, suddenly, "I've loved you for a very long time".

ladydoor
November 24th, 2008, 06:58 PM
And, uh, in The Shrine Rodney had a BUG in his head....

Crazedwraith
November 25th, 2008, 08:53 AM
I didn't say it was completely without foreshadowing. Do not "interpret" my posts.

Yes you said:


As it stands, it's just out of blue. Tacked on. Forced. Random.
So, How can some thing be 'out of the blue' and still foreshadowed? The phrase "Out of The Blue" means "without foreshadowing" this was not a great re-interpretation of your post on my part.



I said that there's been very little foreshadowing. Rodney's concern for her in "The Seed" could easily be explained as friendship.

Could have been, yes. But it wasn't.



They went for a drink at the end of "Trio" due to a bet.

That's just plain wrong. Rodney was denying the fact they'd had a bet until Keller goes "I'm asking you to buy me a drink and by the way I'm giving you a massive huge hint here"

Note how Keller doesn't make Carter buy her a drink.



Then, all of a sudden, in "The Shrine", Rodney says he loves her. Then we see her apparently leading Ronon on for two episodes and now, suddenly, "I've loved you for a very long time".

Leading Ronon on? I seem to recall her flat out saying she didn't want a relationship with him.

FallenAngelII
November 25th, 2008, 12:37 PM
So, How can some thing be 'out of the blue' and still foreshadowed? The phrase "Out of The Blue" means "without foreshadowing" this was not a great re-interpretation of your post on my part.
"I have loved you for a very long time" was out of the blue. Not the fact that they like each other.


Could have been, yes. But it wasn't.
My point is that there's been almost nothing to show genuine chemistry and romantic affection between the two shown on-screen.


That's just plain wrong. Rodney was denying the fact they'd had a bet until Keller goes "I'm asking you to buy me a drink and by the way I'm giving you a massive huge hint here"
Sorry, I forgot about that. Still, they apparently didn't count it as a date. Also, they kinda ignored that for months afterwards.


Leading Ronon on? I seem to recall her flat out saying she didn't want a relationship with him.
O RLY? Then are you calling her an idiot? Ronon has time off and what does he do? Volunteer to come with her to help out with some rural villages on some backwater planet somewhere.

I'm suuuuuure he just wanted to be a good friend. This is the same man who she had shared a passionate (or so the writers and producers thought) kiss a few months earlier. This is the same man who the writers had portray as being interested in her.

He flat out said so to Rodney. For the rest of the episode, Jennifer just had them both help her. Ronon and Rodney both insisted on being the ones to help out the most. Either she's an idiot or she knew they were both vying for her.

So what does she do? Not tell Ronon off, that's what. Then we have the mysterious make-up spell. On that mission on the Daedalus with Todd on board, for some inexplicable reason, she had curled her hair and splashed on more make-up than ever. Some fans interpret that as her dolling herself up.

For whom you ask? Let's see... Richard? Probably not. Steven? Nope. Todd? Possibly. Most probably Ronon.

She waited weeks to finally tell Ronon off. So either she's totally oblivious or an idiot or she was undecided. That or she wanted to play the field a bit.

That is why "I've loved you for a very long time" is out of the blue. Because just 2 months ago, she was quite possibly contemplating choosing Ronon, whom the writers had us be in a love-triangle with McKeller for a few episodes.

Crazedwraith
November 25th, 2008, 01:10 PM
"I have loved you for a very long time" was out of the blue. Not the fact that they like each other.
Now, this is a fair point, I suppose. If Keller meant it literally, personally I think it was just a call back to Rodney's line in 'The Shrine.'



My point is that there's been almost nothing to show genuine chemistry and romantic affection between the two shown on-screen.
This is pretty much a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't think there's much chemistry between the actors. I just find McKay's clueless=ness that he's actually being hit on, rather funny.



Sorry, I forgot about that. Still, they apparently didn't count it as a date. Also, they kinda ignored that for months afterwards.
Fair enough. The character's both thought of Brain Storm as their first 'official' date anyway.



O RLY? Then are you calling her an idiot? Ronon has time off and what does he do? Volunteer to come with her to help out with some rural villages on some backwater planet somewhere.

I'm suuuuuure he just wanted to be a good friend. This is the same man who she had shared a passionate (or so the writers and producers thought) kiss a few months earlier. This is the same man who the writers had portray as being interested in her.


I'd actually forgotten that they did kiss at all. "Quarantine" right? I may have to watch that one again.



He flat out said so to Rodney. For the rest of the episode, Jennifer just had them both help her. Ronon and Rodney both insisted on being the ones to help out the most. Either she's an idiot or she knew they were both vying for her.
Which episode are you referring to? Tracker? That one where she was mainly distracted by her work for the first five minutes of the episode and then kidnapped for the rest of it?



So what does she do? Not tell Ronon off, that's what. Then we have the mysterious make-up spell. On that mission on the Daedalus with Todd on board, for some inexplicable reason, she had curled her hair and splashed on more make-up than ever. Some fans interpret that as her dolling herself up.
I can't say I actually noticed.




For whom you ask? Let's see... Richard? Probably not. Steven? Nope. Todd? Possibly. Most probably Ronon.

She waited weeks to finally tell Ronon off. So either she's totally oblivious or an idiot or she was undecided. That or she wanted to play the field a bit.

That is why "I've loved you for a very long time" is out of the blue. Because just 2 months ago, she was quite possibly contemplating choosing Ronon, whom the writers had us be in a love-triangle with McKeller for a few episodes.

Again this does boil down to taking Keller's statement totally literally. These characters are not supposed to be perfect. They make mistakes, they misstate things. Keller's statement doesn't have to be totally true its just the sentiment she's trying to convey.

Plus you can love someone without wanting to be their significant other or join the mile high club with them. (Then end of 'The Tao Of Rodney' comes to mind) Granted, it wouldn't entirely make sense in context. But she could 'love' Rodney in a platonic sense while still be torn between a romantic relationship with Ronon and one with McKay.

Further more she could mean she's been in love with him for some time, but didn't fully realise it, hence the still flirting with Ronon.

FallenAngelII
November 25th, 2008, 01:46 PM
Now, this is a fair point, I suppose. If Keller meant it literally, personally I think it was just a call back to Rodney's line in 'The Shrine.'
Which he doesn't seem to remember. So she's echoing Rodney's lines "for the lulz", despite the fact that it'll make him think that she's truly been in love with him "for a very long time"? Hardly.

It's meant as a callback and a declaration of undying love... out of the blue.


This is pretty much a matter of personal opinion. I personally don't think there's much chemistry between the actors. I just find McKay's clueless=ness that he's actually being hit on, rather funny.
I can see friendship chemistry (a bit). Romantic dating love chemistry? Not so much.


Fair enough. The character's both thought of Brain Storm as their first 'official' date anyway.
Exactly.


I'd actually forgotten that they did kiss at all. "Quarantine" right? I may have to watch that one again.
Yes, "Quarantine". Jennifer knew very well that Ronon had an interest in her at one point in time. It'd take true cluenessness/obliviousness/stupidity to not realize he still was interested when he was battling Rodney.


Which episode are you referring to? Tracker? That one where she was mainly distracted by her work for the first five minutes of the episode and then kidnapped for the rest of it?
What work? They were running around in the forest. And the mere fact that Ronon volunteered to come with her and help her carry her stuff should've tipped her off.


I can't say I actually noticed.
The curled hair I didn't notice personally right away. The make-up was obvious to anyone who pays attention to details since it was just literally at least twice as much as she usually wears.


Again this does boil down to taking Keller's statement totally literally.
So she was lying? I'm sick and tired of this cop-out. Let's not take what the characters say as the truth. Let's assume they were lying or exaggerating since it'll make the writers look less stupid.

It was meant as a declaration of love, IMO.


These characters are not supposed to be perfect. They make mistakes, they misstate things. Keller's statement doesn't have to be totally true its just the sentiment she's trying to convey.
This is a TV show. There was no retraction after that. All the writers gave us was Jennifer telling Rodney she'd loved him for a very long time and then they had air plane sex.

Let's not assume she misspoke just because it suits our argument.


Plus you can love someone without wanting to be their significant other or join the mile high club with them. (Then end of 'The Tao Of Rodney' comes to mind) Granted, it wouldn't entirely make sense in context. But she could 'love' Rodney in a platonic sense while still be torn between a romantic relationship with Ronon and one with McKay.
Yeah, no. It's very clear she loves him "in that way". Why else would she say "I've loved you for a very long time" and then immediately kiss him?

"I've loved you as a friend (despite us not having spent much time together, at least on-screen) for a very long time. (I was then torn between you and Ronon. Hey, let's make out!)"

No, the context makes it clear she meant it "in that way".


Further more she could mean she's been in love with him for some time, but didn't fully realise it, hence the still flirting with Ronon.
But she didn't say that. Also, I'll just settle with the writers being hacks at shipping.

Crazedwraith
November 25th, 2008, 02:30 PM
Which he doesn't seem to remember. So she's echoing Rodney's lines "for the lulz", despite the fact that it'll make him think that she's truly been in love with him "for a very long time"? Hardly.

It's meant as a callback and a declaration of undying love... out of the blue.
Except if its a call back, then its not out of the blue, is it?



Yes, "Quarantine". Jennifer knew very well that Ronon had an interest in her at one point in time. It'd take true cluenessness/obliviousness/stupidity to not realize he still was interested when he was battling Rodney.
Can't argue much against that. Maybe Keller really is that clueless?



What work? They were running around in the forest. And the mere fact that Ronon volunteered to come with her and help her carry her stuff should've tipped her off.
What that her friends what to help her out? After she got kidnapped she really did have more important things on her mind that Ronon/McKay like avoiding the wraith and trying to help that little girl who was in a critical condition alive.



The curled hair I didn't notice personally right away. The make-up was obvious to anyone who pays attention to details since it was just literally at least twice as much as she usually wears.
I've got a confession to make here: I don't exactly watch Atlantis at a high resolution. Finer detail slips me and I don't exactly watch to drool over Keller, I watch for the story.



So she was lying? I'm sick and tired of this cop-out. Let's not take what the characters say as the truth. Let's assume they were lying or exaggerating since it'll make the writers look less stupid.

It was meant as a declaration of love, IMO.
Again. Characters are humans. Humans not perfect. This particular human had just woken up from being frozen to death. Probably not thinking clearly.

Why again must we take everything she said as one hundred percent pure literal truth?



This is a TV show. There was no retraction after that.
She'd have been very cruel to take it back. That would have probably cause more howls than what did go down.

Though I would have liked to see more awkwardness in the final plane scene. Something along the lines of:
Keller: Rodney, why are things so awkward? I told you I loved you
Rodney: Well you just woken up from hyperthermic shock. I just assumed you...
Keller: I said it I meant it.



Let's not assume she misspoke just because it suits our argument.

No. Let's assume people who wake up after almost dying, aren't thinking too clearly.



Yeah, no. It's very clear she loves him "in that way". Why else would she say "I've loved you for a very long time" and then immediately kiss him?




"I've loved you as a friend (despite us not having spent much time together, at least on-screen) for a very long time. (I was then torn between you and Ronon. Hey, let's make out!)"
Hence why she didn't phrase it that way. :P Again, people don't always say thing in a way that is 100% literal truth. It just doesn't sound as good.

And the on-screen, thing is the kicker. To me its obvious a lot has been happening offscreen, given John's commet: "IS he ever going to make a move?" suggests to me that McKay half-trying to chat up Keller has been a common sight recently...




But she didn't say that. Also, I'll just settle with the writers being hacks at shipping.
That I can get behind. The majority of ships are obviously based just on actor chemistry. When the writers actually write them in. They mess it up. Horribly.

FallenAngelII
November 25th, 2008, 02:59 PM
Except if its a call back, then its not out of the blue, is it?
This is this and that is that. It's a callback in the sense that the writers are referencing an earlier said line.

It's out of the blue because we haven't seen enough on-screen to indicate that Jennifer's been in love with Rodney "for a very long time". In fact, we've seen the opposite.

Don't strawman the argument.


Can't argue much against that. Maybe Keller really is that clueless?
And stupid. You'd have to be very stupid not to know something was up. Also, that doesn't explain the excessive make-up and curling of the hair on that mission without Rodney and with Ronon (unless she was going for Richard, Steven or Todd).


What that her friends what to help her out? After she got kidnapped she really did have more important things on her mind that Ronon/McKay like avoiding the wraith and trying to help that little girl who was in a critical condition alive.
I'm sorry, I said anything about what happened after she got kidnapped when? At the start of the episode, the mere fact that both men were spending their free time (which isn't excessive in quantity) going with her on some boring mission to help people should've set her off.

Add to that how they were competing over who could help her the most.


I've got a confession to make here: I don't exactly watch Atlantis at a high resolution. Finer detail slips me and I don't exactly watch to drool over Keller, I watch for the story.
Neither do I. I don't live in the U.S. and Sweden's TV6 is several months behind Sci-Fi. However, anyone who pays attention to details would've noticed (it's not a bad thing that you do not).

Also, I'm gay. I wouldn't drool over Jennifer... ever.

Unless you're watching some kind of really bad rip or, I don't know, on Youtube, it's pretty noticeable since her eyeshadow is just that excessive.


Again. Characters are humans. Humans not perfect. This particular human had just woken up from being frozen to death. Probably not thinking clearly.
This is TV. The average viewer isn't smart enough to analyse stuff the way we do. That or they just don't care. The PTB know this.

Thus, they write the show a certain way. It would be illogical to have a character declare their love only to explain it away as bad judgment instead of a genuine declaration of love.

The writers clearly intended for it to be a true declaration of love (IMO).


Why again must we take everything she said as one hundred percent pure literal truth?
Why again must we assume people are lying and mispeaking whenever it suits our argument?


She'd have been very cruel to take it back. That would have probably cause more howls than what did go down.
The show is written for a specific purpose: Exposition. The audience is not mind readers. Therefore, the writers tell us the plot through dialogue and actions. Everything indicates she meant what she said, from a writer's aspect.


And the on-screen, thing is the kicker. To me its obvious a lot has been happening offscreen, given John's commet: "IS he ever going to make a move?" suggests to me that McKay half-trying to chat up Keller has been a common sight recently...
Or not. Attempting to chat Jennifer up would constitute making a move. It could just as well indicate he hasn't even tried that yet.


That I can get behind. The majority of ships are obviously based just on actor chemistry. When the writers actually write them in. They mess it up. Horribly.
I do not disagree with this statement in the least.

Crazedwraith
November 25th, 2008, 03:21 PM
Don't strawman the argument.
Not my intent.



And stupid. You'd have to be very stupid not to know something was up. Also, that doesn't explain the excessive make-up and curling of the hair on that mission without Rodney and with Ronon (unless she was going for Richard, Steven or Todd).
And heaven forfend characters do anything stupid? Keller's background does include that she missed out on a lot of social while she was busy being a medical genius Perhaps that goes someway towards explaining it?



I'm sorry, I said anything about what happened after she got kidnapped when?
I misunderstood then.



At the start of the episode, the mere fact that both men were spending their free time (which isn't excessive in quantity) going with her on some boring mission to help people should've set her off.

Add to that how they were competing over who could help her the most.

This is true enough. Again the lack of social experience maybe? Or again she just ignored it so she could get on with her job and maybe try and sort it out later?




Unless you're watching some kind of really bad rip or, I don't know, on Youtube, it's pretty noticeable since her eyeshadow is just that excessive.
Sadly my experience with eye-shadow is non existent.



This is TV. The average viewer isn't smart enough to analyse stuff the way we do. That or they just don't care. The PTB know this.
I hardly think the idea that near death experiences might hinder one's judgement is especially ground breaking.


Thus, they write the show a certain way. It would be illogical to have a character declare their love only to explain it away as bad judgment instead of a genuine declaration of love.
I can agree with that. The base sentiment of "I love you" was clearly genuine. The packaging it arrive it: not so much.


The writers clearly intended for it to be a true declaration of love (IMO).
Of course, they did. That doesn't mean they also intended Keller to have been head over heels for months beforehand.




Why again must we assume people are lying and mispeaking whenever it suits our argument?
I'm not. I'm assuming their human enough that everything they say can't be taken as 100% true. As an extreme example if Keller looked up and said "that sky is orange!" (while she was on Earth) would you assume she was right or wrong? Same principle.



The show is written for a specific purpose: Exposition. The audience is not mind readers. Therefore, the writers tell us the plot through dialogue and actions. Everything indicates she meant what she said, from a writer's aspect.
That's one point of view. I'd credit the writers with enough intelligence to know their supposed to be writing actual humans not incredible perfect people. Perfect people don't make for good tv after all.


Or not. Attempting to chat Jennifer up would constitute making a move. It could just as well indicate he hasn't even tried that yet.
Fine then. The spending time-together



I do not disagree with this statement in the least.

:D Did we Just agree on something?

FallenAngelII
November 25th, 2008, 05:37 PM
Not my intent.
Then stop "interpreting" my posts.


And heaven forfend characters do anything stupid? Keller's background does include that she missed out on a lot of social while she was busy being a medical genius Perhaps that goes someway towards explaining it?
Not really. Unless she's utterly stupid, she would've noticed something odd was going on. And anyone with half a brain would then wonder why it was going on.


I misunderstood then.
No, you "interpreted". You inferred, assumed and added things I never, ever said.


This is true enough. Again the lack of social experience maybe? Or again she just ignored it so she could get on with her job and maybe try and sort it out later?
Does not explain her dolling herself up.


Sadly my experience with eye-shadow is non existent.
Have you never seen someone wearing eyeshadow? Heck, if you haven't ever seen someone wearing eyeshadow, seeing Jennifer would that much eye shadow would've shocked you so much you would've noticed it.


I hardly think the idea that near death experiences might hinder one's judgement is especially ground breaking.
This is a TV show. The writers write the show a certain way. The most logical interpretation would be mine, not yours. The writers would not have her declare her undying love for him just to have it end up being a lapse in judgment. Because there'd be absolutely no point in doing that, as opposed to an actual confession of love.


Of course, they did. That doesn't mean they also intended Keller to have been head over heels for months beforehand.
Yes, because they had her say it. There is absolutely no reason from a storyteller's point of view to have her say it if she doesn't mean it.


I'm not. I'm assuming their human enough that everything they say can't be taken as 100% true. As an extreme example if Keller looked up and said "that sky is orange!" (while she was on Earth) would you assume she was right or wrong? Same principle.
Stop treating this like a deep well-written show. Stop fanwanking yourself out of how badly written it is.


That's one point of view. I'd credit the writers with enough intelligence to know their supposed to be writing actual humans not incredible perfect people. Perfect people don't make for good tv after all.
Apparently you haven't watched Stargate Atlantis, home of the many Mary Sues. Also, read above. It makes zero sense from a storyteller's point of view to have her declare she's loved him for a very long time if she hasn't.

This is not the real life transcript of two people's lives. This is a TV show written by hacks (yes, PTB, you are hacks. You were pretty good before, but then came the BS-fest that is McKeller and everything became hack-y) who are very, very bad at shipping.

Madeleine
November 27th, 2008, 10:24 AM
Then stop "interpreting" my posts.

Unfortunately, as your posts frequently end up meaning something slightly different to what the words appear to say, 'interpretation' is not only accidental, but unavoidable.

You'll have to forgive people for not guessing the special meanings that you are giving to your words and phrases, and you'll have to be a bit patient with explaining it, I'm afraid.


Stop treating this like a deep well-written show. Stop fanwanking yourself out of how badly written it is.

Could you possibly try to remember that 'badly written' is your personal opinion rather than a matter of fact? That way, you'll find it easier to avoid doing anything as ludicrous and rude as ordering people to have a different opinion about the show from the opinion that they have formed without your assistance over the past four years.

Any queries, feel free to PM. Cheers.

Madeleine
GateWorld Moderator

kali1
November 27th, 2008, 10:58 AM
Apparently you haven't watched Stargate Atlantis, home of the many Mary Sues. Also, read above. It makes zero sense from a storyteller's point of view to have her declare she's loved him for a very long time if she hasn't.

This is not the real life transcript of two people's lives. This is a TV show written by hacks (yes, PTB, you are hacks. You were pretty good before, but then came the BS-fest that is McKeller and everything became hack-y) who are very, very bad at shipping.


I feel the same. In my opinion...it was half assed writing. TPTB, IMO do not know how to write romance. It's not in their blood...so in essence...why even BOTHER at all in the attempt. My opinion, yes.

Pandora's_Box
November 27th, 2008, 10:59 AM
Madeleine? You are fantastic.

That is all.

Mitchell82
December 1st, 2008, 06:54 PM
never saw 'attack of the clones,' but this 'i love you' on the first date reminds me of some bad fanfic though... or a fanboy's fantasy *cough*.

You've never seen "attack of the clones"? How is that possible?;) As to the unrealistic "I love you" I guess my love for my wife is superficial since I said that to her on our first date and we've been married for 10 years.